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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks dot com.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 2: Charles Bryant, there's Jerry over there. You put the three

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Speaker 2: of us together. It's movie crush, I mean stuff. You

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Speaker 2: should know.

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Speaker 3: This does have some stank on it doesn't it. It's

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Speaker 3: a movie stank. H.

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Speaker 2: I know your game is cool.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even ask you have you seen Black Clansman.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I can't. I can't do this episode

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Speaker 2: without having seen it. So I watched it last night.

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Speaker 3: Oh nice, Yeah good? Huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. Like I like his choice

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Speaker 2: at the end, like just completely pull a somersault on

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Speaker 2: the viewer.

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Speaker 3: Oh sure with that last bet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like spoiler alert, pretty power.

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Speaker 3: There's an end all spoilery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. We should probably say that out of

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Speaker 2: the gate. If you haven't seen this yet and you

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Speaker 2: don't want it to be spoiled, don't listen this episode first. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I guess now that we've said that, we

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Speaker 2: can speak freely. Right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So.

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Speaker 2: The if if the entire movie was basically to disarm

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Speaker 2: you up to the end, then I think it's one

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Speaker 2: of the greatest movies I've ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 2: And even if it wasn't, that wasn't the entire point

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Speaker 2: of the movie. It was still it was still great.

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Speaker 2: And how he pulled it out at the end, I think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well this was I don't know if you remember,

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Speaker 3: but this is the movie I saw in Perth, Australia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that happens at the end, that big, you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of gut punch of realism at the end. And

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Speaker 3: I stood up and I was like, hmm, like, I

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Speaker 3: wonder what they're thinking here in Perth.

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Speaker 2: They probably think of what just happened? What's wrong with America?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm going, I my good to see you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not American.

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Speaker 2: I'm Canadian. Can't you tell bloke?

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Speaker 3: Oh goodness. Yeah. It was one of those things where

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm kind of slightly embarrassed right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I like that.

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed the movie though. I thought to see Spike Lee,

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Speaker 3: who just he's one of my favorite filmmakers in his sixties,

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Speaker 3: still just bringing the juice like this. I loved it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I also loved that it was controversial too, in that,

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Speaker 2: like some people criticize Spike Lee for like not going

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Speaker 2: far enough or maybe kind of glossing over some of

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Speaker 2: the ugly aspects of the story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, do you want to get to that at

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Speaker 3: the end, maybe, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, but we'll give it a pre mention

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Speaker 2: shout out, which is what we just did.

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Speaker 3: Right, So we are talking about the true story of

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Speaker 3: the film Black Clansman, Spike Lee's movie that won the

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Speaker 3: Grand Prize at the con Film Festival. It's nominated for

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Speaker 3: Academy Awards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, three Oscars, I believe for including Best Picture.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Picture, Director, and.

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Speaker 2: Supporting Actor for who I would guess Adam Driver. I

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Speaker 2: didn't see. Really, Yeah, I was surprised because Denzel's son

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Speaker 2: did a wonderful job as well.

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Speaker 3: He loves he loves that being known as that, right.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember his first name, but you know, Denzel's son.

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Speaker 2: He was like there were several times when he was

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Speaker 2: talking and I was like, oh, you are definitely Denzel

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Speaker 2: Washington's son man, just the way he talked, the sound

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Speaker 2: of his voice. But also is acting too, he's a

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Speaker 2: good actor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so all right, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for

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Speaker 3: Adam Driver, Best Director, and Best Original Music Score. Oh nice,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, he is. I didn't know he was Denzel

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Speaker 3: Sun un till after the movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.

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Speaker 3: And he was a football player, do you know that?

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Speaker 2: I didn't who he played for.

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Speaker 3: He played for Morehouse here in Atlanta. He was a

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Speaker 3: running back and then played an NFL on the practice

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Speaker 3: squad for the RAM and then eventually played a few

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Speaker 3: years in NFL Europe and the UFL until he hung

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Speaker 3: up his cleats six years ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's cool. Yeah, playing football in Europe has got

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Speaker 2: to be a surreal experience, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's a soccer ball.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's like, what are you doing? This is all wrong?

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Speaker 3: All right? So should we way back into the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 3: the groovy seventies of Denver, Colorado.

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Speaker 2: First we should say his name is John David Washington.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure you were kidding Denzel Son. Yes, so yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's get in the way back machine and see go

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Speaker 2: inspect their terrible, low quality pot.

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Speaker 3: So Ron Stalworth is the true to life character's name.

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Speaker 3: Who There was a football player growing when we were

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Speaker 3: growing up named John Stalworth. So I'm always wanting to

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Speaker 3: say John Stalworth.

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Speaker 2: This is not him. This is a cop named Ron Stalworth.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and he had a few designations that are

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Speaker 3: pretty important. He was the first African American police officer

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Speaker 3: to work for the Colorado Springs Police Department, which he

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Speaker 3: joined as a cadet at the age of nineteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: in seventy two, and then a couple of years later

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Speaker 3: on his twenty first birthday, on his twenty first birthday.

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Speaker 2: That's what I saw ye had June eighteenth.

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Speaker 3: I believe Nice was sworn in as a full on

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Speaker 3: officer of the law.

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Speaker 2: Right And I'm not sure if like they just swear

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Speaker 2: you in on your twenty first birthday or if it

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Speaker 2: just so happened that'san ceremony was on his twenty first birthday,

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Speaker 2: but regardless, it was a big deal. He's the first

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Speaker 2: African American cop and then later on detective for Colorado

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Speaker 2: spring So that's a big deal, especially starting out at

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Speaker 2: age twenty one too. That takes a lot of cajones

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Speaker 2: as they call it in Colorado. No.

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Speaker 3: I think they call those rocky Mountain oysters.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that is what they call him for sure.

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Speaker 3: So he worked undercover for about thirty years long, great

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Speaker 3: careers an undercover detective, but it was this case which

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Speaker 3: only came out about four years ago when he wrote

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Speaker 3: a book about it about his career when he went

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Speaker 3: under cover as a well as a clansman. But it's

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Speaker 3: a little more complicated than that.

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Speaker 2: It was a very complicated operation, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And this wasn't something that like, I mean, he

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Speaker 3: even says in this NPR interview that he didn't. It

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Speaker 3: was just a job at that particular point in time.

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Speaker 3: And when that particular job ended, that is the undercover stint,

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Speaker 3: which was about what eight or nine months, I moved

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Speaker 3: on to something else and it just happened by circumstance.

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Speaker 3: So he didn't come in there with a bone to

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Speaker 3: pick with the Klan, aside from probably every bone to

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Speaker 3: pick that he had with the Klan, right, just as

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Speaker 3: a black man in America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I knew it would probably help to give

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Speaker 2: a little background on the Klan at the time, because

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Speaker 2: you know, the clan was very well known for being

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Speaker 2: really big and really violent. At over. Three waves is

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Speaker 2: basically how the clan history is divided. Yeah, Like the

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Speaker 2: first wave was when they were they were founded in

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Speaker 2: the wake of the Civil War. Then they had the

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Speaker 2: second wave came around the nineteen teens, like nineteen fifty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: I mean that era, and then they had another big

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Speaker 2: resurgence during the Civil Rights era in the fifties and sixties.

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Speaker 2: But you know, in between these waves and after that

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Speaker 2: third wave, it's not like the Clan just went away.

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Speaker 2: They kept on going. Their profile was lower, and maybe

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Speaker 2: the public violence or terrorism that they were engaging in

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Speaker 2: wasn't quite as pronounced, but they were still there, and

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Speaker 2: in Colorado in particular, they had a really long history

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Speaker 2: with the Klan, where basically the city of Denver was

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Speaker 2: in under the control of the Klan back in the twenties,

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Speaker 2: just you know, fifty years before Ron Stalwarts started working there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. When he got hired there, he got

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Speaker 3: access to files like secret FBI files, and he got

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Speaker 3: to go in and dig in and look at the

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Speaker 3: history of the Clan in Colorado, and boy, like you

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Speaker 3: ain't kidding, they were in the House of Representatives. There

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Speaker 3: were senators.

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Speaker 2: Both senators were Clans members.

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Speaker 3: The mayor Benjamin Stapleton, who the airport was named after

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Speaker 3: until ninety five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his great grandson ran for governor on the GOP

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Speaker 2: ticket this past election and lost to who is Colorado's

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Speaker 2: first ever openly gay Jewish governor.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Colorado is a weird state.

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Speaker 2: It is an odd state for a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of different ideologies all packed in together.

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Speaker 2: It's very purple in all sorts of ways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Mayor Benjamin Stapleton was a clan member. The

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Speaker 3: governor Clarence Morley was a clan member chief of police,

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Speaker 3: which is I mean, you don't want anyone in these

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Speaker 3: positions to be clan members, but I imagine the chief

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Speaker 3: of police is one of the more problematic areas to

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Speaker 3: have a person in that kind of control.

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Speaker 2: Particularly that one too. He was basically he was picked

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Speaker 2: by the clan, the Colorado Clan, and basically foisted on

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Speaker 2: Benjamin Stapleton, who who was even like, wow, this guy's

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Speaker 2: even too much for my tastes, and eventually fired him.

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Speaker 2: But like the clan picked the chief of police of Denver, Colorado,

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Speaker 2: back in the twenties.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And they tried to recall Stapleton at one point.

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Speaker 3: It didn't work, and when that effort failed, the klan

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Speaker 3: burned across on the top of Table Mountain as a celebration,

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Speaker 3: a show of public celebration.

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Speaker 2: Right, So the clan has deep roots and an old

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Speaker 2: story in Colorado, or at least they used to, and

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Speaker 2: they were still very much around when Ron Stalworth started

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Speaker 2: as stigationners started as the first black detective in Colorado Springs, right,

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Speaker 2: that's right. And so he started out I guess, his

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Speaker 2: kind of playing clothes and was assigned undercover work pretty

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Speaker 2: quickly just by his just by being the only African

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Speaker 2: American officer in the police force. Because Stokely Carmichael came

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Speaker 2: to town once.

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Speaker 3: That's right, And this is in the film. We're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about a few differences between the movie and

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Speaker 3: the real story. But he did, in fact to go

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Speaker 3: to a speech in a rally by famous black panther

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Speaker 3: Stokely Carmichael, and he was, you know fully kitted out

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Speaker 3: in his bell bottoms and his wearing a wire, he

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Speaker 3: picked his afro out, and he in fact did make

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Speaker 3: a point to meet him, just like he did in

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Speaker 3: the film. And Carmichael did apparently say arm yourself and

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Speaker 3: get ready because the revolution has come. And I imagine

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Speaker 3: Stalworth had some mixed feelings about that assignment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would guess. So it's kind of like, I

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Speaker 2: don't really have any idea of what he personally was

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Speaker 2: like because the movie mixed things up so much, in

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Speaker 2: like added layers that weren't necessarily there. So I have

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Speaker 2: no idea what that experience would have been like for him,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One thing we do know is not true is

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Speaker 3: the character in the film of Patrese, whom he meets

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Speaker 3: at that rally, young woman that he falls in love with.

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Speaker 3: She was made up for the movie. Spike Lee wanted

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Speaker 3: a love interest basically, and to represent sort of the

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Speaker 3: female black power movement as a whole, So she was

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Speaker 3: completely made up. But she was terrific in the film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Laura Harrier. She's in the New Spider Man movies too.

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Speaker 2: She's awesome, cool, the New Spider Verse movie.

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Speaker 3: No no, no, that's animated. Oh okay, well she could

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Speaker 3: have been a voice actor.

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Speaker 2: I guess right. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, she's in the one, the New Ones with the

225
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Speaker 3: New Kid.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the New Spider Kid, the Current Spider Man.

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Speaker 3: Current Spider Man, which is great. Those are good movies.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen any of them.

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Speaker 3: You're not super into that stuff, though, were you.

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Speaker 2: Well? I saw The Infinity War when he was in that.

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Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, he's a bit of a smart Alec

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Speaker 2: Frankly he is.

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Speaker 3: So okay, he does his research on the deep roots

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Speaker 3: of the clan in Colorado, he goes under cover, and

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Speaker 3: then I don't think he was even assigned this thing.

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Speaker 3: I think he kind of came up with it on

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Speaker 3: his own, by chance, almost in October nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 3: He was twenty five at this point, and he was

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Speaker 3: looking through the local paper.

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Speaker 2: Well that was part of his assignment, to gather intelligence

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Speaker 2: by reading the paper.

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Speaker 3: Well, right, but I don't think I think this was

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Speaker 3: his idea to go undercover like this.

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Speaker 2: That's the impression I have too.

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Speaker 3: He seemed like a self starter in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: So he found this ad, a classify ad in the

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Speaker 3: paper for the clan said get in touch if you

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Speaker 3: want further information. He sent a letter posing as a

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Speaker 3: white racist to a po box, just thinking that he

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Speaker 3: would just get back some pamphlets or something. So he

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Speaker 3: signed his real name, which is he didn't really think

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Speaker 3: that went through.

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Speaker 2: No, he didn't, and he did. He never really fully

254
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Speaker 2: explained it aside from the best explanation I saw is

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Speaker 2: that he didn't think anything was going to come of it.

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Speaker 2: He thought he'd get like you said, a couple of

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Speaker 2: pamphlets and that would be that. And he just wasn't

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Speaker 2: planning to create like a large investigation out of making

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Speaker 2: contact through this ad. And again we should probably state this.

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Speaker 2: It was an ad in the paper for the clan

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Speaker 2: to get in touch with the clan, to get more

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Speaker 2: info about the clan and maybe you might want to join.

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Speaker 2: Who knows, right, So he makes contact with him by

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Speaker 2: sending off a letter. And if you ask me, if

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Speaker 2: if Spike Lee were directing this episode, he would put

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Speaker 2: an ad break right here.

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Speaker 3: That was good.

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Speaker 2: Who are we to disagree?

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Speaker 3: All right, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So, like we said, ron Stalworth is thumbing through

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Speaker 2: the newspaper. He mails off a letter to get more

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Speaker 2: info about the clan, and he uses his real name,

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Speaker 2: and like you said, Chuck, he was expecting like a

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Speaker 2: pamphlet or something in return, like so you want to

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Speaker 2: be a clan member or something like that. Instead, about

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Speaker 2: two weeks later, he got a call from the numbers.

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Speaker 2: So he used everything as far as the undercover operation

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Speaker 2: would go. He used all of his undercover info except

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Speaker 2: for his name. So he got a call in his

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Speaker 2: undercover phone line from a guy named Ken O'Dell and

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Speaker 2: he was pretty surprised to get this call because again

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Speaker 2: he was expecting a pamphlet and instead he had a real, live, living,

283
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 2: breathing Ku Klux Klansman on the other end of the

284
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Speaker 2: line saying, Hey, I got your letter about hating black

285
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Speaker 2: people and other minorities. Let's talk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was like, why are you interested? And Stalwarth

287
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 3: immediately just kind of goes into character, and I guess

288
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Speaker 3: that's what you know when you're undercover. You got to

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Speaker 3: be part improv actor, right to be able to pull

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Speaker 3: that off.

291
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Speaker 2: Well. He also he said he drew from his own

292
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 2: personal experiences because he grew up in El Paso and

293
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 2: encountered a lot of racism there and I'm sure on

294
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Speaker 2: the force in Colorado Springs too, so he drew from

295
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 2: his own experience as well.

296
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Speaker 3: Yeah. So he basically right out of the gate, says, well,

297
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Speaker 3: you know, my sister's dating a black man, and every

298
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Speaker 3: time he puts his hands on her, on her pure

299
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Speaker 3: white body, I cringe and I want to do something

300
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Speaker 3: about it. And Ken O'Dell says, you sound like a

301
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 3: great guy once you come on down and let's meet,

302
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 3: because you are just the kind of kind of dude

303
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Speaker 3: we're looking for you.

304
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Speaker 2: Sound like real clam material. Yeah.

305
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 3: I thought about maybe doing an episode on the Klan.

306
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 2: I thought about the two and then I'm like, do

307
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 2: you want to give him a platform?

308
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah? But then I thought, or you know, you could

309
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 3: just talk about it and how stupid they are all right?

310
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Speaker 3: Like it when I was a kid. I mean, of course,

311
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 3: being in Georgia, that stuff was around. I never saw

312
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 3: it firsthand, obviously, yeah, but you heard things even like

313
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 3: growing up in the seventies in Georgia, and I was

314
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 3: always so scared of the whole thing because of the

315
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 3: outfits and everything and the fire. And I was a

316
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 3: good little Baptist boy, so there was a lot of fear.

317
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 3: But then I got a little older and I was like,

318
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Speaker 3: they're just dumb rednecks wearing sheets, right, sort of demystified it.

319
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Speaker 2: That's the moment you become an adult. Yeah.

320
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 3: But I mean, of course, then I would later learn

321
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Speaker 3: that they did real horrific things and took lives and

322
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Speaker 3: you know, or a terrorist organization.

323
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Speaker 2: Right right. Yeah, But I think what you're saying is

324
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,199
Speaker 2: they made themselves up to be boogeymen. Yeah, exactly, and

325
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,120
Speaker 2: they definitely can be that way, especially in the young

326
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Speaker 2: mind or something like that. But sure. Yeah. So so

327
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,160
Speaker 2: back to the story. Ron Stalworth is on the phone

328
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Speaker 2: with this guy named Ken O'Dell who wants to meet

329
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 2: him to see if he'd like to join the Klan.

330
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Speaker 2: And this is a big problem because I think, as

331
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Speaker 2: we mentioned a couple of times, ron Stalworth was African American.

332
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Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, oh boy, what do I do here?

333
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Speaker 2: Right? So he actually recruited a fellow detective who he

334
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 2: in his book calls Chuck. That's all he's ever publicly

335
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: referred to the guy as is Chuck Waite? Was it you, Chuck?

336
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 3: It was not me that gentleman. Is I guess either

337
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 3: still undercover or just never wanted his identity out there? Right?

338
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 2: So he Yeah, he may still live in Colorado Springs.

339
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 3: Who knows, maybe he's on a case right now for

340
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 3: all I know.

341
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 2: But so this Chuck guys, he was recruited by Ron

342
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 2: Stalwarts to play ron stalwarth to the Klan because Chuck

343
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 2: was white, he was already an undercover narcotics agent and

344
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 2: apparently he was friendly enough with Ron Stalwart to say, yes,

345
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 2: I will join this investigation, buddy, Let's do it.

346
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Speaker 3: Yeah. And here's the thing though he was this wasn't

347
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 3: his primary case. So Chuck is undercover on a lot

348
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 3: of different assignments, so he's not around as much as

349
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 3: Stalwart needs him. So, like in the movie, most of

350
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 3: this stuff is done over the phone. Like, he spends

351
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 3: a lot of time in this investigation on the phone

352
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 3: speaking to these clansmen who think that he's a white man,

353
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Speaker 3: and when they needed to meet, he would send Chuck

354
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 3: in who And we'll get to the voice part in

355
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 3: a minute, because that's when I was watching the movie.

356
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 3: I was like, do none of these dummies not realize

357
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 3: that they don't sound anything alike, right, you know, because

358
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 3: they've been talking to him on the phone at length.

359
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,880
Speaker 3: But they had they had their first meeting. They they

360
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 3: got together, and I believe they met. They met somewhere

361
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 3: at first and then went to a bar after, like

362
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 3: as the second part of that meeting.

363
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they met at a convenience So the movie supposedly

364
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 2: portrays this realistically. They they this Chuck guy who was

365
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 2: portraying Ron Stalwarts to the Klan. They met at a

366
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 2: convenience store and he was said he was told to

367
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 2: get in the car and then they drove to a

368
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 2: second location. Man, that's scary stuff. And also he's also

369
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: wearing a wire at the time. Like that's something that

370
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: that the movie kind of gets across, but especially in

371
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 2: like articles about the story don't necessarily dive into this.

372
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 2: Chuck cat was like putting himself out there.

373
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 3: Oh sure, as every undercover detective does.

374
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 2: Right. So, I mean Ron Stalworth is conducting this investigation,

375
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: he's the mastermind of he's leading this whole thing. But

376
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 2: this poor Chuck guy has to go hang out with

377
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 2: these you know, violent clans members or clan members on

378
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 2: you know, like fairly frequently from what I understand. So

379
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: hats off to him.

380
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean it was it was definitely

381
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 3: like it required both of their best efforts to get

382
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 3: away with this for that long, right, it was quite

383
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 3: the ruse. So Chuck meets with them, eventually earns their

384
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,919
Speaker 3: trust along with the phone work of Stalworth, and then

385
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 3: he actually gets successfully admitted about two months later and

386
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 3: got his little I guess you get a little membership card.

387
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: He still has it.

388
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 3: He does. He did not throw it away like in

389
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 3: the movie. He has it framed in fact and on

390
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 3: the back of the card. Were six codes of conduct,

391
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 3: one of which said never discuss any clan affairs with

392
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 3: any plane clothes officer on a state, local, or national level.

393
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: Right.

394
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 3: So, there is a lot of comedy in the movie

395
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 3: if you haven't seen it, I mean, it's it's a

396
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 3: serious thing that they're doing. But there are a lot

397
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 3: of laughs as well.

398
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: A lot of laughs and a lot of like movie

399
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,719
Speaker 2: formula steps that Spike Lee purposely follows, you know, very

400
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 2: faithfully too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So there's a big point

401
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 2: there that we left out of the Chuck so to

402
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: get that membership card, supposedly, again, as they say in Colorado,

403
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: the oysters on this guy his he had, so he met.

404
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 2: So the fake fake Ron saw with Chuck met with

405
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 2: the Klan impressed them enough. Between Ron, the real Ron

406
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 2: Stalwarts phone calls and Chuck's whatever Chuck was saying in person,

407
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,719
Speaker 2: All this combined made the Colorado Springs Clan members say, Okay,

408
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: we like you, we want you to be a member.

409
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: Fill out this application and we'll send it off to

410
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: the to the national director of again the Klan, we

411
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: should say, I don't know if we've ever said this.

412
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: The Klan calls itself the organization rather than the clan.

413
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: So they and the guy who ran the thing. I

414
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: don't know if he still runs it or not, but

415
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: he definitely did at this time during this investigation is

416
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 2: a guy named David Duke, who if you grew up

417
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 2: in the eighties or I think even the nineties, yeah,

418
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: you were probably pretty familiar with David Duke. I believe

419
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 2: he ran for president once, didn't he?

420
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean he was, wasn't he the

421
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 3: governor of Louisiana.

422
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: I don't Maybe that's what it is. Maybe he ran

423
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: for that. But he was the Grand Wizard of the

424
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: Ku Klux Klan, and he was trying to make it

425
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: a more political organization, less of a terrorist organization and

426
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: more of a political organization under his guidance, but it

427
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: was still the Ku Klux Klan. Like there was still

428
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: plenty of times when he was wearing robes and stuff

429
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: he just never did in public. So during this time

430
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: he was the national director, the Grand Wizard of the Klan,

431
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: and when ron Stalwarts didn't get his application pushed through

432
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: fast enough, he picked up the phone, had called the

433
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: national headquarters and ended up talking with David Duke and

434
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: saying like, Hey, my application is taking a while. Is

435
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: there anything you can do about it? And this kicked

436
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: off like what Ron Stalwart would later characterize in a

437
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: weird way as a friendship between him, a black undercover

438
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: detective in Colorado, and David Duke, the Grand Wizard of

439
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: the Ku Klux Klan. Yeah.

440
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: And by the way, I don't want to get angry

441
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 3: emails from David Duke supporters.

442
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 2: Huh.

443
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: He was a Republican Louisiana State rep. He was not governor,

444
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 3: but I think he ran for some high off. Oh

445
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 3: he did. He ran. He was a candidate for the

446
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: Democratic presidential primaries in the late eighties and then the

447
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: Republican primaries in ninety two.

448
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: He ran as a Democrat, and then I could see

449
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: that solid South kind of thing.

450
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he ran for state Senate and

451
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: lost US Senate and lost US House and loss. And

452
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: he did run for governor of Louisiana but he lost.

453
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: Gotcha, Okay?

454
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: And you maybe if you're if you didn't grow up

455
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 3: in the eighties, you may have heard his name more

456
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: recently because he fully endorsed Donald Trump's campaign, and after

457
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: Donald Trump won, he this was his quote on Twitter

458
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 3: make no mistake, our people have played a huge role

459
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: in electing Trump. So he was. He was in the

460
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: news again more recently.

461
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: Well, he was also in Charlottesville, if not leading the

462
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: rally to Unite the Right. Definitely a big speaker at it,

463
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: a big part of it. And Spike Lee uses some

464
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: of his footage from that rally to kind of get

465
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: across that, you know, this stuff is still going on.

466
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: This isn't from the seventies or earlier.

467
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: How great was tof Grace?

468
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 2: He was wonderful.

469
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: He was so good and he looks a lot like

470
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: David Duke of the seventies.

471
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: He really does, unfortunately for the stash and the three

472
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: piece suits and all that.

473
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, he did a good job.

474
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: But so so yeah in the movie Toe for Grace

475
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: from that seventies show. Always he will always be from

476
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: that seventies show. Yeah, he plays what do you want

477
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: me to say? Like he had a bit part in

478
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 2: Ocean's eleven or something. Brad Pitt's character was teaching him

479
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: to play poker.

480
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 3: I think I got about that.

481
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: You know that guy.

482
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: No, he's that seventy show of course.

483
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: So so he he plays David Duke in the in

484
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 2: the movie and there this, this is, this is it's

485
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: really funny, like Spike Lee added stuff that just you

486
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: you would think like, well, yeah, of course it's totally believable,

487
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: like Chuck being Jewish in real life, right, and he

488
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: actually wasn't. That's that's fabricated by the movie. So you

489
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: would just not even think twice about that. But it

490
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: turns out that's not true. The stuff that seems the

491
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: least true was actually the stuff that actually happened, and

492
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 2: for a very long time, at the very least over

493
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: the course of this nine month investigation, there were multiple

494
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: phone calls that were very cordial and where ron Stalworth

495
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: would call David Duke imposing as a White clam member

496
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: and pumping from information. They would talk about, you know,

497
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: David Duke's family, and like just have normal conversations that

498
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: would inevitably turn back to racism and the weakening of

499
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: the white race at the hands of you know, the

500
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: Jewish media and all the minorities who are taking over,

501
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: and so it would inevitably turn disgusting. But he said later,

502
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: I think in the book in an interviews where if

503
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: you could separate that stuff out, he was actually a

504
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: pleasant person to talk to. And that's where that weird

505
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 2: friendship that he characterized it as kind of developed from

506
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: those conversations.

507
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 3: But there is like he couldn't make this stuff up,

508
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 3: you know.

509
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: Exactly, But there is at least one video of David

510
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: Duke basically admitting that, yes, this he had conversations with

511
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: this guy. He tries to downplay it, sure, but he

512
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: does basically verify that, yes, that's true, that really happened.

513
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 3: Well, and Duke's probably like I can't remember every phone

514
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: call I had with every random racist over the years, right,

515
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: there were a lot of even that skuy posing is one.

516
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: All right, well, let's take another break and we're gonna go.

517
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: We're gonna talk a little bit more about this weird

518
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: David Duke relationship right after this. All right, so he's

519
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: budding up with David Duke on the phone. He's fooling everybody,

520
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: and he even like you get the sense that he

521
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 3: does have a little bit of sense of humor Stalworth

522
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: because at one point he even goaded him on the

523
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 3: phone a little bit. And this is in the movie,

524
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 3: and it was totally true. Said, you know, mister Duke,

525
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: have you ever worried about like a black man posing

526
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: as a white man and infiltrating your organization. And Duke

527
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 3: said no. And he said, and this is from the

528
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: NPR interview with Stalworth, he said, I can tell you're

529
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: white because you don't talk like a black man. He said,

530
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: you talk like a very smart, intellectual white man. And

531
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: I can tell by the way you pronounce certain words.

532
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 3: And he said, you know, give me an example, and

533
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: he said, black people tend to pronounce the word are ara,

534
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 3: And I can tell by listening to you that you're

535
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: not black because you do not pronounce that word in

536
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: that manner. It's science case closed. Oh boy, he was

537
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: so easily duped. I love it. And then they also

538
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: did in fact meet in person. That part is true

539
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: as well. Duke came to town and was having lunch. It

540
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: was not a big ceremony like in the movie, but

541
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: he came to town to have lunch, and the department

542
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: assigned Stalwarth to protect him, and so he goes there

543
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: to the restaurant introduces himself to protect him. Duke says,

544
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: all right, I appreciate you them, you know, sending someone

545
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: my way. And Chuck is undercover there as well, and

546
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: he does in fact, Stalworth pose with David Duke and

547
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 3: gets a polaroid with him.

548
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: So this sounded to me like what what was the

549
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: what was going on here? Like, I mean, like, you've

550
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: got this investigation going, this is this takes place during

551
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: this this undercover investigation that Stalwart's conducting. You have a

552
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: guy who's already like putting himself out there Chuck as

553
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: as the white Ron Stalworth. And then the chief says, oh, yes,

554
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: by the way, you the only African American police officer

555
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: in our entire squad. You go be David Duke's bodyguard

556
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: for the day while he's in town in Colorado Springs.

557
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: Like that was just bizarre. And not only do it

558
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: do that that that very like obvious over act slapping

559
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: the face to David Duke, which is great, but if

560
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: it but it could have jeopardized like this whole thing

561
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: because also you had the guy portraying ron Stalworth in

562
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: the same room at the same lunch. It just seemed

563
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: really strange. And again, that was one of those things

564
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: where when you watch the movie you would think like, well,

565
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: that's just made up. No, that actually took place, at

566
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: least according to Ron Stalwart's memoirs.

567
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: And that that.

568
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: Chuck was in the room was asked to take a

569
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: picture by Ron Stalworth with David Duke and the Grand Dragon.

570
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: I guess who must be like the head of the

571
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: state in Colorado. And then the last second, when he

572
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: was counting down, he put his arms around the shoulders

573
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: of the two clan guys and then got his hands

574
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: on the picture. Apparently all of that was the case,

575
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: but he's since lost the picture.

576
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Duke really did try to get it back,

577
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: and Stalwarth like got to it quicker and said basically like,

578
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: if you try to take this thing, I will have

579
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: you arrested for assaulting a police officer. Don't do it.

580
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: Don't think about it.

581
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: All right, So he said he lost it in a move.

582
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: He wished he had taken better care of it. But

583
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: the idea that it was like, that's just so nuts.

584
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: It tells you a lot about the investigation though to me,

585
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: like it makes you say, like, okay, how seriously were

586
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: they taking this investigation at the time. If Stalwart later said,

587
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: all right, this is this is just you know, this

588
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: is just another job to me. When I started it,

589
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: I did the job. And then when it was done,

590
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: I moved on to another job. The fact that he

591
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: didn't talk about it much until I think he spoke

592
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: about it to the press once in two thousand and

593
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: six a Desert News article, and then didn't talk about

594
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: it again until twenty fourteen when his memoirs came out.

595
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: It was just like a thing that they were doing

596
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: that other people were doing other stuff too. And then

597
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: to have like that part of it, that the idea

598
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: that you would you would jeopardize it in that way

599
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: just makes it like they weren't taking it as that

600
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: big of an operations, as like the movie would like

601
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: to believe. I'm not sure.

602
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think in in real life it was it

603
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: was a information gathering investigation. Like it was never we're

604
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: going to take down the clan in Colorado. It was

605
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: let's infiltrate and get as much information in fact finding

606
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: as we can. And in the end, after eight months,

607
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: that's kind of what happened. It was. He considers Stalwart

608
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: considers it a success and that they fulfilled their mission.

609
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: They did prevent three cross burning ceremonies during that eight

610
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: month span or a nine month span, and they did

611
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: identify clan members who worked at noor Ad, right who

612
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: apparently they said they, I mean these days they would

613
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: be fired probably, but they said they reassigned them to

614
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: like Greenland or something.

615
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: Right because they had access to the two nuclear weapons.

616
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: Apparently they had very high level clearance at noor Ad.

617
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: Which is scary. And then they also found plans that

618
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: they didn't act on, like the whole bomb plot in

619
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: the movie was made up for dramatic purposes, but they

620
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: did find links between for a plan to bomb a

621
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: gay nightclub and another plan to steal automatic weapons from

622
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: an army base, like an inside job. So it was,

623
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: you know, it was valuable work they were doing, for sure.

624
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: It just wasn't like we're going to take the Clan down,

625
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 3: like I don't think it was the department's big, big

626
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: job at the time.

627
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: No, certainly not. And in the memoirs and in the

628
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: movie too, the reason that's given for the undercover operation

629
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: to end is because it started to become successful. Ron

630
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: Stalwarth was nominated to lead the Colorado Springs chapter of

631
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: the Klan, like Ken O'Dell basically said, you should take

632
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: my job. Everybody likes you. You're really good at this,

633
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: You're smart. You should lead the clan here and the

634
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: police chief of Colorado Springs. So that's it, close it down,

635
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: burn all the evidence of this investigation. He apparently was

636
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: worried about what a pr nightmare it would be if

637
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: it got out that some of his detectives were in

638
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: the Colorado Springs clan. But at the same time, what

639
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: strikes me is odd is that the FBI wasn't like, oh, well, geez,

640
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: this guy is like being nominated to lead the Colorado

641
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: Springs Clan. Right, He's talking to David Duke, like, really

642
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: that this could not be kind of blown up into

643
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: a larger investigation or a larger staying or something like that.

644
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: And then secondly, and Ron Stalwart himself addresses this, there's

645
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: a very frequently a criticism of well, if this was

646
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 2: such a big operation and they found all this stuff,

647
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: why wasn't anyone arrested? Why weren't there any arrests?

648
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 3: And say Duke says.

649
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 2: Right, not just David Duke. Stalwars says also that that

650
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 2: in law enforcement too, people question that, like why wasn't

651
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: anyone arrested? And he said, it was an intel investigation

652
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: and that's what they did, is they gathered stuff. But

653
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: then he very rightly points out, like you said, like

654
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: the fact that they prevented crossburnings alone makes it a

655
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: worthwhile and valuable operation. I think just some people on

656
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: the outside are saying, well, why wasn't why wasn't more done?

657
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: Why didn't Moore come out of this? You know? Well,

658
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: and I'm not quite sure what they're driving at, but

659
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: there are you know, Stalwart brings that up in an

660
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: interview I read with him like that, people do ask

661
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: that and wonder about that.

662
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Stalwarth is very proud of the fact that

663
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 3: with the cross burnings. He was like, no, I can't

664
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: remember the quote, but he said something about like, no

665
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 3: children in Colorado Springs got to you know, no young

666
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: black kids had to see crosses on fire during that

667
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: eight or nine month period, and very proud of that,

668
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: as he should be.

669
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, for real.

670
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: So I mentioned the voice earlier and the fact that

671
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 3: he had a different voice obviously than Chuck, and he

672
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: said one time, only one time, and I think this

673
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: was in the movie, wasn't it.

674
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: It was? Actually no, it was I remember.

675
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So one time in the whole investigation did someone say, like,

676
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 3: wait a minute, you sound different. Chuck had just been

677
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: at a in person meeting, came back and then Stallworth

678
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: wants to follow up on the phone with ken O'Dell

679
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 3: about something right afterward. So he had just heard Chuck's

680
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 3: voice for whatever this whole meeting and was talking to

681
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: him and he was like, wait a minute, you sound different,

682
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: what's going on? And he just pulled it off. He

683
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: coughed and said he had a sinus infection, and ken

684
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: O'Dell was like, oh, well, here's how you clear that

685
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: up and gave him some good sinus medication advice.

686
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,959
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, they definitely appeared in the movie.

687
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: I mean, you could not make this thing up. You know,

688
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: it's crazy, no for real.

689
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 2: And apparently for a long time, Stalworth was saying like, yeah,

690
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: it was just another job, it was just another operation.

691
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: And I guess he told some fellow like law enforcement

692
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: friends or whatever about it and they're like, dude, you

693
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: this is a movie. You need to write this down,

694
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 2: you need to get this out. There is a one

695
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: in a million story. Yeah.

696
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 3: I wonder one reason it didn't go bigger operation wise

697
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: was because the sort of hackneyed way they got into it,

698
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: like he's the voice, but they're sending a white man like,

699
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: it's I'm surprised he pulled it off for that long.

700
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could totally see that one.

701
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: Final thing that did not happen in real life but

702
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 3: did happen in the movie. And this is what when

703
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 3: you usually will change real life is to get a

704
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 3: more satisfying ending. But Stalwarts did not, unfortunately, reveal his

705
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: true identity to David Duke like he does to hilarious

706
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: effect in the film. Unfortunately, No, I'll.

707
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: See you learn that. He was saying, like, yeah, he

708
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: just he didn't really talk about it until the two thousands,

709
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: So David Duke didn't know until I guess the memoirs

710
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: came out.

711
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, well, I guess we should talk

712
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 3: about Spike Lee getting criticized. Boots Riley, director who I

713
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: had on Movie Crush. By the way, I know what

714
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 3: was his movie? Sorry to Bother You was his film

715
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 3: that he made.

716
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 2: No, I mean his pick for Movie Crush.

717
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: His pick was a movie called Mishima, A Life in

718
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: four Chapters. Okay, yeah, it was a great film and

719
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 3: his like, his knowledge on movies was deep. He turned

720
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 3: me onto a lot of cool things.

721
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: I thought it for a very terrible second. You were

722
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: saying his pick was his own movie, No No.

723
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 3: But he you know, Boots does not hold back on

724
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: what he thinks. And while you would think that he

725
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: would be like, oh, no, I'm going to be a

726
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 3: champion of Spike Lee and telling the story, he came

727
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: out very publicly on Twitter and very intelligently criticized that.

728
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: He didn't just bag on it. He wrote a big,

729
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: long statement on exactly what he thought was wrong with it.

730
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. He basically said, look, man, if you take away

731
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: all the embellishments that Spike Lee added to this movie,

732
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: what you have as a guy who who's probably biggest assignment.

733
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure where he got this, but he

734
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: focused on that that stokely Carmichael thing and the fact

735
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 2: that ron Stalworth had worked undercover to infiltrate the Black

736
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 2: Power movement in Colorado Springs and that he had worked

737
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: on that for like three years, and that this clan

738
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: thing was just a like a nine month thing. And

739
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: he also criticized Spike Lee for making it making the

740
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: movie seem like law enforcement and the Black Power movement

741
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: came together to fight racism, right, and that that like

742
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: that was a larger point or that that was historically

743
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: accurate or something like that. It was a really interesting

744
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 2: It was like a three page essay that he posted

745
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 2: on Twitter that made some good points. He basically said,

746
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: from what I can tell, it looks like ron Stalworth

747
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 2: was working for co Intel Pro, which is the FBI's

748
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: it was their their program to undermine groups, including Black

749
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 2: Power group oops, which we mentioned it in the Black

750
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: Panther episode. We did, and the Cointelpro definitely deserves its

751
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: own episode. And it was it was ended officially in

752
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one. But I think Boots Riley's point was

753
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: it might have been officially ended, but the work was

754
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 2: still going on. And if this guy was infiltrating Black

755
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: Power like groups in Colorado Springs, he was almost certainly

756
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: trying to break them up one way or another, probably

757
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: using co Intel purposes or practices. And ron Stalworth, he

758
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: had a pretty great quote in response to it. He said,

759
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: I pray for my demented, dissolute brother in response to

760
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: Boots Riley, and Spike Lee has no comment about it whatsoever,

761
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: So who knows. But you make a good point that

762
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: like he's he's he's not just giving like blind allegiance

763
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: to anything.

764
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: Sure, well, Spike did comment eventually.

765
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't see that.

766
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. He was in an interview, and the

767
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: first thing he said was like, hey, I'm a I'm

768
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: a young man of sixty one or something like that,

769
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 3: and like, you know, young me might have kind of

770
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: gotten into a war of words, but he's just not

771
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 3: into that anymore. But he did say briefly something about, listen,

772
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: I'm not going to come out and say that all

773
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: cops are racist and all cops do bad things, because

774
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: they don't all do bad things. There's a lot of

775
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 3: great cops. There's also bad cops. And he kind of

776
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: just couched it in that and then was like, but

777
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not going to be really talking about

778
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: this anymore.

779
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I hadn't seen that he'd even had that comment. Yeah.

780
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: So it's interesting stuff, and it's a good movie at

781
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: the very least, Oh for sure. You know, I think

782
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: I think ron staal War's like, man, they made a

783
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: movie about my story. That's pretty awesome, and at the

784
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: very least, it's a pretty great movie. How about that?

785
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: Totally totally, So if you you got anything else, I

786
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 3: got nothing else.

787
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about black Clansman. You

788
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: should probab probably go see that movie. And I guess

789
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: we probably should have said at the outset this episode

790
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: is not an ad.

791
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 3: Oh, of course not.

792
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 2: We just liked the movie a lot.

793
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean you could say it's an ad,

794
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 3: but like, no one gave us money or asked us

795
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: to do this. Sure, Okay, I'm endorsing it.

796
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go. I am endorsing it as well.

797
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: It has two thumbs up as it were. Yeah, rest

798
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: in peace Roger Ebert and Jeane Ciskel two thumbs Okay.

799
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 2: So if I already I already said that, how about

800
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: some listener mail.

801
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna call this ping pong response from a

802
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 3: former pro I'm nice. Hey, guys, want to commend you

803
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 3: on the job you did covering a sport that you

804
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: didn't have an ex extensive knowledge of. I'm a professional

805
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: table tennis coach and former player. I started playing in college.

806
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 3: Thought it was really good until I was coerced to

807
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 3: go to a tournament at Princeton University about twenty years

808
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: ago and I got destroyed. I didn't like that, so

809
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: I saw it out to coach and the rest is history.

810
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: You guys, clearly did a lot of research and to

811
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: highlight the things that most novice players aren't aware of.

812
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: But there were a few things I couldn't help but

813
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: point out. Josh, you mentioned the components of the modern racket.

814
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: You said the pimpled sign those are called pips are

815
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 3: for spinning the ball, that the smooth side is for

816
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 3: defensive play. But the opposite is actually true. Oh no,

817
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: I didn't catch that because I would have pointed that out.

818
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: I thought everyone knew that.

819
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: Thank you for that.

820
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 3: You get good spin on that smooth side, all right,

821
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 3: for real? Oh yeah, yeah, it's grippy, all right, he said.

822
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: The smooth side is very tacky, as in sticky, and that,

823
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 3: combined with the sponge underneath, allows the ball to sink

824
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 3: in just enough so that the taki service grips the

825
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 3: ball and generates a lot of spin. Also, you can

826
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 3: really have any combination of rubber that you want as

827
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: long as it's ITTF approved. Players are not restricted to

828
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: having one smooth side and one with pips, but one

829
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 3: side does have to be read and the other black.

830
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: Most defensive players use pips on their backhand because vary

831
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: the spin that is coming back at you and it's

832
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: very hard to read. Also, Chuck, you mentioned that defensive

833
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: players are called chislers. They're actually called choppers as they

834
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 3: chop the ball back with varying backspin. I've never heard

835
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 3: the term chiselers. I'm wondering if it is extremely outdated.

836
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: Maybe I bet you that was the gates ahead old

837
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: research chizlers.

838
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 2: That's something called in the twenties.

839
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 3: He said, if you guys are ever in the Dunnellen,

840
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: New Jersey area, stop by. We're there right now, stop

841
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 3: by the Lily Yip Table Tennis Club and I'll gladly

842
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 3: hook you guys up with the lesson.

843
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: I will gladly humiliate you in person.

844
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 3: And that is Thomas from Philly.

845
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: Thanks Thomas, much appreciated. We like it when we are

846
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: gently corrected because we like to be right, So thanks

847
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: for that. If you want to get in touch with us,

848
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: let us know. I don't know something we got wrong

849
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: about black clansmen. Let us know. You can find all

850
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: of ours show links on stuffishould know dot com and

851
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: has always send us an email to stuff podcast at

852
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com.

853
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

854
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot com.