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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I think is so curious is that

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Speaker 2: even brought up YETI earlier. I feel like this particular

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Speaker 2: phenomenon almost like dragons, they've been talked about, even though

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Speaker 2: they seem mythical, they'd been talked about and cultures all

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Speaker 2: over the world. Can you take me back to the

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Speaker 2: bigfoot thing and where it kind of started?

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Speaker 3: The bigfoot thing kind of started actually goes back, well,

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Speaker 3: it goes back thousands of years in the United States.

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Speaker 3: It would be in North America. Native Americans, tribes all

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Speaker 3: across North America had their own names for these creatures

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Speaker 3: where they're describing the same thing, different names of tall, hairy,

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Speaker 3: giant beings. And then all through the period of early

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Speaker 3: settlers coming to North America, there were reports of seeing

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Speaker 3: these giant tracks and then seeing these mountain devils, and

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Speaker 3: then it just continued on up to the present time.

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Speaker 3: The word bigfoot entered into the vocabulary after some tracks

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Speaker 3: were found in northern California, and it was a newspaper

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Speaker 3: man out of Eureka, California that kind of looked at

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Speaker 3: one of the one of the larger casts that they

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Speaker 3: got and they called that bigfoot, and then that name stuck,

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Speaker 3: and now it's kind of misinterpreted by a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: In fact, that's one of the big misconceptions about the

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Speaker 3: subject is people think we're talking about this one creature,

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Speaker 3: this one entity, as opposed to a population of creatures

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Speaker 3: of animals. And we know that from having from what

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Speaker 3: we've been doing for many years, that there's definitely more

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Speaker 3: than one. But still a lot of people misunderstand it

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Speaker 3: and think we're all running around looking for this one

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Speaker 3: thing that just keeps getting away from us.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So in sasquatch, that fits in there the same way, right,

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Speaker 2: that's just another name that.

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Speaker 3: Sasquatch came out of Canada. That was a Native Coast

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Speaker 3: Salish Indian word what's actually an anglicized version of their

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Speaker 3: almost unpronounceable chess queak. I mean, it's really hard to pronounce,

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Speaker 3: but it was by it was anglicized to make it

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Speaker 3: more pronounceable. But it is originally a native word, and

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Speaker 3: it came from Canada, and it was in use, of course,

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Speaker 3: long before the moniker bigfoot came into being, like in

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Speaker 3: the late fifties and in the sixties, and then it

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Speaker 3: was really the Patterson footage that I mean, there was

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Speaker 3: that article, people were talking about it, but it was

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Speaker 3: when the Patterson footage got around that really people became.

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Speaker 3: It got on people's radar screens across the country, and

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Speaker 3: then everybody knew what this idea of bigfoot was and

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Speaker 3: it started to supplant then a lot of the local

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Speaker 3: names that people have been giving them, you know, the whatever,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Lake Worth Monster and the Mountain Devils

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Speaker 3: and the wood Boogers. There was all sorts of local

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Speaker 3: names who I have not have heard of.

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Speaker 4: The wood Booker yet, that's a new one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's like from in parts of Virginia.

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Speaker 4: And that's a fair would call it that. That tracks Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then and so that Bigfoot has now become kind

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Speaker 3: of the dominant one. And what reason is functional And

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Speaker 3: that's one reason why we decided to call ourselves the

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Speaker 3: Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization and its opposed to the Sasquatch

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Speaker 3: Field Researchers Organization, is because people know how to spell

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Speaker 3: bigfoot and an let's.

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Speaker 4: Tool her on a T shirt too, quite honestly, right.

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Speaker 3: And it tends to be people tend to misspell. They

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Speaker 3: don't get the spell exactly right for sasquatch right off

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Speaker 3: the bat, so bigfoot, by being easier to spell, kind

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Speaker 3: of beat out sasquatch.

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Speaker 2: So you're in you're in college, you're looking for the

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Speaker 2: you're researching it. And is that when you go hiking

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Speaker 2: and find an actual footprint that blows your mind? When

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Speaker 2: was that around the same time?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? Well, yeah, I was in college, it was. It

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Speaker 3: was just in the process of looking for this you book.

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Speaker 3: The guy at the bookstore knew a couple of prospectors

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Speaker 3: and who had spoke seen a big they'd seen a

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Speaker 3: big foot, and I talked to both of them. I

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Speaker 3: realized they must have seen one, and it had to

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Speaker 3: be a big foot because it was about nine feet tall. Oh,

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Speaker 3: and then it took me a few months to get

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Speaker 3: and find somebody who could would be willing to take

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Speaker 3: me backpacking up into this very difficult to reach area

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Speaker 3: way up in the mountains of Ventura County, which is

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Speaker 3: not like the Sierras, but they're they're almost more remote

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Speaker 3: because there's fewer roads up there.

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Speaker 4: It took Black Mountain. That's not your Mount Shasta, is it. Oh?

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Speaker 3: No, No, No, Mount Shasta is in northern California, so

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Speaker 3: the mountains are only like an hour north of LA.

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Speaker 3: They're the mountains in between like La and Bakersfield.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: As you go up over the five Freeway and you

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Speaker 3: look off to the left by Pyramid Lake, you see

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Speaker 3: some high peaks over there that very often have snow

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Speaker 3: in the winter. So it was actually right there you

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Speaker 3: could see the two mountains from the fine Freeway. One

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Speaker 3: is White Mountain, one is Black Mountain. And this happened

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Speaker 3: in the canyon in between White Mountain and Black Mountain.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you see the footprint in what happens to

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Speaker 2: you because it had to change something inside you that

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Speaker 2: we went from because I gotta imagine the same thing

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Speaker 2: probably when people go ghost hunting that they think it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be fun, and you almost take a comical approach

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Speaker 2: to you know, the Scooby Doo approach to it. We're like,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna go on a mystery. But then when you

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Speaker 2: see something that actually connects to the realism of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is not pretend anymore. It's got to change something

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Speaker 2: about your uh, the way your blood flows through you.

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Speaker 4: At that point, Oh yeah, oh, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I fell down to my knees to look at this thing,

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Speaker 3: and it was right on the trail in front of us,

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Speaker 3: and we could tell by the condition of the track,

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Speaker 3: as it was kind of wet out it had been

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Speaker 3: raining periodically that this was a very fresh track and

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Speaker 3: it was going downhill. And then we heard a sound

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Speaker 3: that not only had I never heard before, but I

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Speaker 3: had nobody had even even talked about it before. And

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Speaker 3: it was the sound of these wood knocks down in

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Speaker 3: the bottom of this canyon. And this place is just

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Speaker 3: so remote, and we were baffled. We were like, what

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Speaker 3: is it sounds like somebody almost chopping wood down there.

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Speaker 3: There's just loud bang, bang bang. We couldn't figure out.

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Speaker 3: We're like, wow, there's some hermits living way out here

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Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere. Because we knew it's had

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Speaker 3: to have something with arms and hands to make this

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Speaker 3: loud sound. We continued going up the trail, and not

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Speaker 3: much further up, we could hear another thing further up

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Speaker 3: the canyon, maybe a quarter mile up, knocking almost in

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Speaker 3: reply to this one that was directly below us, down

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Speaker 3: in the canyon.

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Speaker 4: Because it's maybe warning the other one that you guys are.

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Speaker 3: There exactly exactly, and we didn't put it. We just

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Speaker 3: didn't know what was going on at that moment. We

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Speaker 3: kind of put it together later, but once we got

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Speaker 3: up to our camp, then we heard more sounds than

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Speaker 3: that that night, like you call then we call the

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Speaker 3: owl on steroid sound, which is just this whoo. And

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Speaker 3: then on the table, you know, the Forest Service had

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Speaker 3: brought up on horseback pieces of a picnic table to

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Speaker 3: put it at this this dispersed campgraph. It used to

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Speaker 3: be marked on a map called Buck Creek. So here's

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Speaker 3: this wooden table and somebody had scratched into the table

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Speaker 3: help help bigfoot or yeah, they had actually like carved it,

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Speaker 3: not like real car but you could tell they rode

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Speaker 3: it into the table. And we're like, wow, this is

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Speaker 3: really amazing, as if somebody was up there and somebody

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Speaker 3: else had an encounter with something up there, so it

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Speaker 3: was all those things together. We looked around. We're like, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: this is the sort of place. There's nobody else around

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Speaker 3: up here, and there's deer and there's water, and if

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Speaker 3: you could live off the land, this is one place

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Speaker 3: you could do it.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's start putting some of the characteristics together of bigfoot,

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Speaker 2: i'd be so one of the things you just said

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Speaker 2: is about nine feet tall. Yeah, that's not a bear

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Speaker 2: standing on its the back legs that they're at that point.

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Speaker 3: Oh, and that's that the heighth element and just the

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Speaker 3: overall size element is such a key thing, especially for witnesses,

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Speaker 3: because that's when you know people who are like, they

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Speaker 3: don't know anything about bigfoot, but when they know when

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Speaker 3: they see one of these things, they know it can't

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Speaker 3: it couldn't have been a human because it was so big.

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Speaker 3: Because it was it was nine feet tall, and they

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Speaker 3: just knew right away that's not a person. That's way

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Speaker 3: bigger than it, just so off the scale for say

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Speaker 3: a person in a costume or a gilli suit. So

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Speaker 3: when you add when you witnesses who see those big ones,

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Speaker 3: especially they see them up close, you put it, you say,

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Speaker 3: are you sure it couldn't have been a person? They'll

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Speaker 3: just laugh at you like there's just no way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: these thing was nine feet tall, weighed well over five

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Speaker 3: hundred pounds, four feet wide. I mean just you know,

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Speaker 3: probably weighed about as much as a cow. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's how that's how massive they are.

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Speaker 2: And you think they'd be you think they'd be easier

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Speaker 2: to spot, but I gotta imagine one of the characteristics

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Speaker 2: is they do not want to be found by humans.

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Speaker 2: They might be fine with nature, but they don't want

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Speaker 2: to be on camera. They seem like they can elude

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Speaker 2: those things, and you would maybe know better than anybody else,

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Speaker 2: better than anything they can elude.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the research the easy way I mean for

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Speaker 3: them to do. You gotta understand their environment is trees

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Speaker 3: and brush, and they don't expose themselves, especially if they

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Speaker 3: think there's people around in daylight. They're very careful and

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Speaker 3: conscious about exposing themselves and being out away from the

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Speaker 3: trees and brush. They won't do it. But so they're

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Speaker 3: a lot more mobile when they're going from place to place,

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Speaker 3: they're moving a long distance. They'll do so after dark. Especially,

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Speaker 3: they'll do it late, as if they're aware that there's

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Speaker 3: this time frame at night when humans are just not

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Speaker 3: active and like the woods belong to them. They can

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Speaker 3: cross over and come out of the woods and crossover

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Speaker 3: roads and highways so there's no cars coming or very

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Speaker 3: few cars, and they're again very intelligent, and they'll be

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Speaker 3: back undercover by by the time it gets light, So

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Speaker 3: being nocturnal and being intelligent and sticking to areas where

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Speaker 3: it's lots of cover, that's how they can be that

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Speaker 3: big and only be seen occasionally.

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Speaker 2: Well, tie this, tie this together for me. Do you

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Speaker 2: feel like in your research that the bigfoots or the

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Speaker 2: sasquatch know as much about human behavior as we know

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Speaker 2: about them Because we don't know a lot about them, We.

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Speaker 3: Don't know a lot about it. I think from observation,

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Speaker 3: they know a lot about how we operate in their environments.

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Speaker 3: They know that, you know, it gets late at night,

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Speaker 3: people go to bed and go to sleep intents. They

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Speaker 3: know that people generally are not walking around in the

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Speaker 3: woods without lights on. They know we're kind of dependent

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Speaker 3: on lights. And when we do the expeditions that we've

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Speaker 3: been doing them a long time, we take advantage of

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Speaker 3: the fact that they're not expecting people to be out

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Speaker 3: in the woods with no lights on. And that's kind

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Speaker 3: of how we do That's how we get these things

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Speaker 3: to come around. We go out at night in places

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Speaker 3: where they're around, no lights on, and we imitate the

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Speaker 3: sounds that they make, and that's what brings them around.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so when you you start doing this research. How

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Speaker 2: does that turn into a TV show for you? For

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Speaker 2: the Finding Bigfoot show? How do you get a whole

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Speaker 2: network to go, Sure, we'll give you some money, go

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Speaker 2: out and try to find Bigfoot.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't seem like that.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those things like UFOs, like, sure you

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Speaker 2: want to hear about them, but there's nobody gets pictures

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Speaker 2: of them. So you have to assume that you're not

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Speaker 2: going to get video of Bigfoot, even though that's that's

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Speaker 2: the actual goal. How do you sell that show?

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Speaker 3: Well, they came looking for us. I mean, it's also

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Speaker 3: take it. The website had been popular by the late nineties.

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Speaker 3: The BFROL website is it's still the biggest, the best

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Speaker 3: website on the subject, continually updated, and I was getting

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Speaker 3: contacted by TV producers not long after the site started

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Speaker 3: and started getting attention because they wanted help with getting

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Speaker 3: witnesses and experts for their shows, and so I was

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Speaker 3: helping out almost like a technical expert. And then finally

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Speaker 3: I hooked up with Doug Hicheck, the guy who eventually

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Speaker 3: did Monster Quest, and he wanted to do a show

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Speaker 3: where I helped him out kind of as a co producer.

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Speaker 3: Come getting it together and I was kind of a

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Speaker 3: co star with their lead person, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't remember that series. That was called Mysterious Encounters,

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Speaker 3: and he was on a network that doesn't exist anymore

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Speaker 3: called Outdoor Life Network OLN AND which was famous for

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Speaker 3: running the Tour de France races every year, and then

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Speaker 3: later they did a lot of they were famous for

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Speaker 3: the bull running. They had this show. That show was popular,

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Speaker 3: and it was that show. During that show, people were

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Speaker 3: saying asking us, saying, hey, listen, we want to come on,

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Speaker 3: like can we pay to come on expeditions with you guys?

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Speaker 3: And then I started asking like, like, you know, we

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Speaker 3: really want to come on expeditions with us, like how

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Speaker 3: much would you pay? Et cetera, et cetera. And then

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Speaker 3: when they were saying what they would do, and realizing

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of people who would do that,

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know, why don't we allow them to

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Speaker 3: do that? And so it was after Mysterious Encounters people

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Speaker 3: we had these started doing these expeditions all around the country.

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Speaker 3: We tried to keep it as cheap as possible for people,

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Speaker 3: enough so that like the local organizers where at least

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Speaker 3: they weren't going out of pocket. Running them. And then

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Speaker 3: we heard that Animal Planet was looking to do a

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Speaker 3: show on the subject, and they eventually heard about us,

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Speaker 3: and finally their talent scout came down and interviewed me

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Speaker 3: in southern California with several members of the group, and

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Speaker 3: so what that wasn't our first You know, we weren't

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Speaker 3: trying really to get a TV show, But when we

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Speaker 3: heard that a TV show wanted to do something, especially

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Speaker 3: an Anni Planet, we thought, you know, really, you'd be

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Speaker 3: wrong if they went with anybody else, because we have

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Speaker 3: so much more experience. We actually go out and do stuff.

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Speaker 3: And then they figured their conundrum was at first their

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Speaker 3: tussle and it went on for about a year, is

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Speaker 3: they didn't know whether there was enough content there to

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Speaker 3: keep it for it to last. They thought, okay, what

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Speaker 3: we're gonna go out, We're going to look for Bigfoot.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to find it, and then where do

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Speaker 3: we go from there? And I had to explain it, said, listen,

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Speaker 3: there's thousands of eyewitnesses across the country, and we could

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Speaker 3: if nothing else, we can visit those places. We could

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Speaker 3: talk to those people about what they saw. You could

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Speaker 3: do recreations. And I showed them aren't. I showed Discovery,

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Speaker 3: which is the parent network for an whole plan. I

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Speaker 3: let them see our internal database with the thousands of

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Speaker 3: reports with contact information for the witnesses, and then they

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Speaker 3: knew that, Okay, they have a series. If they did that,

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Speaker 3: then there would there wasn't. They weren't going to run

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Speaker 3: out of content anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot

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Speaker 1: com for more