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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from

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Speaker 1: this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist.

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Speaker 2: Miles.

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Speaker 1: We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat

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Speaker 1: by a writer, speaker, activist, best selling author who works

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Speaker 1: on issues of race and identity in America. Her new

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Speaker 1: book is Be a Revolution, How everyday people are fighting

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Speaker 1: oppression and changing the world, and how you can too. Please,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show. The brilliant, the talented Igioma.

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Speaker 2: How you doing Welcome?

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Speaker 3: I am, I'm doing well. How are you?

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Speaker 2: We're doing great. We're doing great. It's great to have you.

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Speaker 2: We've we've just finished your book. We're very excited to

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Speaker 2: talk about it and pick your brain and ask you questions,

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Speaker 2: but not make you do any of the extra labor

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Speaker 2: that sometimes you're asked to do in other spaces. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we want this to be a free, fully conversation. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I also have to say you are from Seattle, and

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Speaker 2: the first thing I always say to every person from

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Speaker 2: Seattle is dis ain't it great? Aren't the fries great,

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Speaker 2: and you came with it and said it was part

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Speaker 2: of your very substantial moment in your life on your wedding.

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Speaker 2: So I'm glad to hear that we have we have

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Speaker 2: that in common, just to start. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes it's all you need.

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Speaker 1: Mm you don't mind, because dicks aren't. Miles has very

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Speaker 1: specific taste in French fries that he likes them. The texture, medium, rare,

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Speaker 1: you know, he likes. He likes Matt Saggi mashed potato sticks?

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Speaker 2: Is that Matt sticks?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 1: Is that always your preferred type of French fry or

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Speaker 1: just Dix? There's something about dis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, I like all different types of fries.

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Speaker 3: And there aren't fries like Dicks anywhere else. Like it's

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Speaker 3: there's a Dick's fry and then you can't get it

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Speaker 3: anywhere else. But it is a particular kind of soft,

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Speaker 3: very salty thing that's beautiful. But it actually tastes like

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Speaker 3: real potato when a lot of French fries don't because

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Speaker 3: it is just real potato. You can watch them chopping

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Speaker 3: them up and tossing him in the fryer. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a really specific thing. But no, I like French

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Speaker 3: fries other places, but when you want a Dick's French fry,

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Speaker 3: you can't go anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: That's all there is. Yeah, love it up there, Love

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Speaker 2: it up there. Beautiful, You've got it all and a

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Speaker 2: great miss. See.

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Speaker 1: Well, we are going to dig into your book and

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Speaker 1: just all all the work your expertise. But first before

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Speaker 1: we get to that, we do like to get to

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Speaker 1: know our guest a little bit better and ask what

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Speaker 1: is something from your search history that's revealing about who

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Speaker 1: you are or what you're up to.

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Speaker 3: H The other day, I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: what happened to Seal Oh, like his singer? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think like Heidi Kluon showed up in my feed,

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Speaker 3: and then I was thinking what happened to Cel And

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Speaker 3: my partner was like, oh, did he die? And I said,

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Speaker 3: I don't think he died, And so I spent a

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Speaker 3: good amount of time.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: He just seems happy. He was recently at like his

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Speaker 3: sister I think, or his cousin had a film released

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Speaker 3: and he came and brought kids. Yeah, he seems happy.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's for me a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of times it's random things popping up into my

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Speaker 3: head of you know, what happened to this person that,

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Speaker 3: you know that used to be a part of my life.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about Jaman Honsu the other day too.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's just like really beautiful black men you know

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Speaker 3: that popped up in like the nineties, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: where did they go?

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Speaker 2: What happened? Yeah? What happened to Jamal Hansu? What's he doing?

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Speaker 2: I mean he's always popping up in movies all the time,

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Speaker 2: and then like and sometimes in roles. I'm like, Jami,

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Speaker 2: you I felt like sometimes you look, it's Hollywood, do

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Speaker 2: you do? You do all kinds of roles. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of what the last thing I

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Speaker 2: saw him in was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to think he was. I saw him

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Speaker 3: in something just a few years ago, but it was

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Speaker 3: like a really bit part with some futuristic like space thing.

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Speaker 3: I think I remember. Yeah, But like I feel like

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Speaker 3: he got type cast so bad, you know, I mean

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Speaker 3: we're like the nineties and yeah, you know, of like

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Speaker 3: he was only going to do like this trauma porn

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Speaker 3: or he was so exotified because of his looks and

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Speaker 3: his accent, and I just think that they really put

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Speaker 3: him into a corner that made it a hard for

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Speaker 3: him to get out of. And you know, and I

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Speaker 3: think he has said the same, Like I think I

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Speaker 3: remember some quotes from interviews in the past being like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was absolutely type cast. But you know, my favorite

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Speaker 3: memory of him is always going to be the Janet

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Speaker 3: Jackson video because that's really where I just watched that

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Speaker 3: on repeat, you know, in my little like preteen hormonal

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Speaker 3: like explosion of like yeah, yeah, ooh, it's this incredibly

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Speaker 3: beautiful human being and just watched.

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Speaker 2: It over and over again. Love will never do without you.

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Speaker 2: You know, we know that chim In or jim On

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Speaker 2: for what fore people called him jam In too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I know another person I remember I went to

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Speaker 2: school with someone who called him Digimon.

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Speaker 3: I heard that a couple of times, being like dig yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's digital monsters, the cartoon man.

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Speaker 1: You know what. I think part of the reason that

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Speaker 1: like seal's kind of hard to search online, Like I

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Speaker 1: searched steal Urban Legend and they were like, Okay, is

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Speaker 1: breaking the seal a real thing when you're out drinking?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I just feel like it's a very specific,

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Speaker 1: but Seal is sixty and thriving and touring. Last time

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Speaker 1: Google checked out with him, the.

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Speaker 2: Last last tweet he had was He's playing Redondo Beach

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Speaker 2: Beach Life Festival this May through May third weekend with

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Speaker 2: Sting Incubus Devo Fleet Foxes. This is a real interesting lineup.

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Speaker 2: What I feel I feel like he should get higher billing.

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Speaker 2: He's like on the third line. It feels right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to know what crowd is going, like,

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Speaker 3: what how people are mixing, like like, oh, you got

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Speaker 3: your Fleet Foxes, we got your Sting. Yeah, like I

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Speaker 3: can see, I can see whatever the VENN diagram is

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Speaker 3: between Sting and Seal being very like, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to be in that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: voted for Obama third term. If I could, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like, then.

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Speaker 1: You add the Fleet Foxes into that ven diagram becomes

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Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, there are three separate circles. Suddenly, yeah, oh no,

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Speaker 1: what is something from your search history?

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Speaker 5: Wow, I guess you're prepared for the first time ever.

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Speaker 2: Not you, It's me.

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Speaker 1: I was going to guess that, but Miles guessed not you.

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Speaker 2: No you somebody out don't tell me.

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Speaker 5: That all I do is like a TikTok now, and

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Speaker 5: my latest search on TikTok was for cool animals and

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Speaker 5: whatever shows me too many people? I like talk to it.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, show cute, funny animals.

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Speaker 2: And what did you did you see anything?

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Speaker 5: Binter wrong? What a binter wrong?

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Speaker 2: Bin wrong?

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Speaker 5: Look it up? You ever seen a binter wrong? They're

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Speaker 5: so cute and weird they all it's.

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Speaker 2: Like a little like a raccoon thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a cool animal.

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Speaker 2: Wow, binter wrong?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 5: Meet me looking up bin to wrongs all day.

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Speaker 1: See this is what TikTok so I. I just asked

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Speaker 1: the TikTok of my generation Google for animals and they

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Speaker 1: didn't give me shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Google sucks now, Yeah, I will say. Actually, the Google

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Speaker 5: image search has been ruined by ai. Have you guys

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Speaker 5: noticed this? If you look for something, now you can

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Speaker 5: look for anything on Google image Search, which used to

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Speaker 5: be good, and now all it shows you is AI

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Speaker 5: generated images from all these free AI generating sites that

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Speaker 5: it's like, oh, you wanted to see like a picture

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Speaker 5: of like Jesus drinking a cup of coffee, here's like

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Speaker 5: a hundred AI generated You know you you can use them.

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Speaker 1: Wait really, yeah, you can hardly find the real picture

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Speaker 1: of Jesus drinking a cup of coffee, Jesus working as barista.

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Speaker 2: Let's see.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this shit is all real basic. They don't

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Speaker 1: have been to wrong, Is that what it is?

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Speaker 2: Been?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Been?

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Speaker 2: Oh shit, yeah, like open art. Yeah you really did.

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Speaker 2: Just serve me a fucking dumb ass picture of a

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Speaker 2: guy with great hair and a beard with a just

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Speaker 2: working on something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what happens. It just shows you this open

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Speaker 5: AI thing where it's like, oh, you want to see

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Speaker 5: this thing, we'll make it for you and then you

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Speaker 5: can use it for free. And they're all terrible. They're

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Speaker 5: all yeah, terrible AI combinations of like images.

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Speaker 1: In this one, Jesus is wearing heavy eyeliner for some reason, because.

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Speaker 5: You wear eyeliner in the desert to keep it out

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Speaker 5: of it out of your eyes, keep it foot out.

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Speaker 2: Of your eyes exactly. Oh, it makes sense to me.

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Speaker 2: The earliest form of EyeBlack was just the thick eye

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Speaker 2: makeup for Jesus.

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Speaker 1: But obviously a lot of people don't know Jesus was

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Speaker 1: rocking eye black out there in the desert.

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Speaker 2: Like John Randall, the Viking style radis all over his face.

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Speaker 2: Another washed reference for them out there. Come on, jan

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Speaker 2: what's something you think is overrated? All right?

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Speaker 6: For this one, I decided to do this the biggest

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Speaker 6: argument I've had in my family in the last week,

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Speaker 6: which was I was saying how much I enjoy watching

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Speaker 6: movies on double speed, and my wife and kids were

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Speaker 6: just furious. So my overrated is watching movies at regular speed.

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Speaker 6: And because you know, I wanted to see Flowers of

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Speaker 6: the Killer Moon, but I'm not going I just did

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Speaker 6: not want to spend four hours doing that. So I

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Speaker 6: rented on YouTube and you can put it on double speed,

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Speaker 6: and it was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: The way it was meant by a white man at

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Speaker 2: double speaking.

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Speaker 6: On my iPhone on the toilet. Yes, I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 6: know maybe the experience was like, well, I still felt emotions,

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Speaker 6: I just felt them faster.

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Speaker 1: I just, you know, I lying at you.

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Speaker 6: My My argument is I'm a writer and I don't

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Speaker 6: I'm not going in and then yelling at people who

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Speaker 6: skim my books or fast. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, do

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Speaker 6: what you want. Here's my book, doing what you want, right, right, right?

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Speaker 6: So but yeah, I know that my filmmakers and art

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Speaker 6: and are not are on my family side that this

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Speaker 6: is a terrible thing. But I mean no offense. I

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Speaker 6: listened to you on double speed.

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Speaker 2: And I why not. I mean, I think it's all

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Speaker 2: I do. I do that with Like I watch a

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Speaker 2: lot of reality TV, and sometimes I can get through

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Speaker 2: it faster by watching it at one and a half

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Speaker 2: x speed, like because there's so much dramatic pausing that

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Speaker 2: when you actually condense the information down, you're like, oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah great, I got the gist of that inane content

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly.

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Speaker 6: But with oh yeah, now if you cut out the

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Speaker 6: repeats when they say and then let's remember what happened

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Speaker 6: before the commercial break, like yeah, there's literally like eight minutes.

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Speaker 7: Of actual new stuff. Right, That's right, That's that's true.

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Speaker 7: I've never tried to watch a movie at two X speed.

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Speaker 7: I've listened to books at two X speed, and some

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Speaker 7: of them I'm like, you know, flying through, getting everything,

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Speaker 7: and sometimes it's like two dense and I just do not,

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Speaker 7: Like I'm I'm thirty minutes and I'm like, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know what the fuck just happened here?

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Speaker 6: Like right, Well, there are some shows and movies definitely

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Speaker 6: don't like deep. I remember I tried to watch that

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Speaker 6: at double speed, and I was like, what the hell

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Speaker 6: is going on? Because they are so fast and witty.

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Speaker 6: But but yeah, like a slow movie that's you know,

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Speaker 6: got lots of nature shots like you mentioned. I can

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Speaker 6: deal with that.

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Speaker 2: That's probably some kind of like speed comprehension test is

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Speaker 2: to like take like a Tina Fey written show or

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Speaker 2: ip and watch that as like three X speed to

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Speaker 2: be like, did you catch all that writers? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she watched this episode of thirty Rock three

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Speaker 1: every speed and give me a solution. Yeah, yeah, Terrence Malick,

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Speaker 1: two X speed like probably just looks like a regular

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Speaker 1: like an eighties movie.

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Speaker 2: It says like, oh this is this is normal.

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Speaker 6: Well, sometimes I think when I listen to MPR normal speed,

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Speaker 6: I mean double speed, it just sounds like normal talking

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Speaker 6: people talking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're not like so they're there. There's not

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Speaker 1: the pauses and yeah that makes sense to me. Older movies,

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Speaker 1: I will say, incredibly slow. Yeah, just long periods with

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Speaker 1: people being like, all right, we've got a head to

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Speaker 1: the store to like meet up for this package drop

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Speaker 1: and then watch them stand up from that table, walk

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Speaker 1: to the car, get in the car drive to the store,

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Speaker 1: it's like realistic.

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Speaker 2: Then like wait you hold on, I forgot my walle

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Speaker 2: and okay, I'll turn around right hey, make sure you

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Speaker 2: hang your cote up before you go inside. I will.

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Speaker 1: There are shots in The Godfather of like somebody's just

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Speaker 1: walking down a hallway for long periods of great movie

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Speaker 1: and maybe like at the time people needed that breather

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Speaker 1: or something, but it's just like man.

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Speaker 6: And even old comedies it's hilarious. I remember watching the

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Speaker 6: Marx Brothers and they had like they're doing their ANTIQ stuff,

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Speaker 6: which is it's not that antic compared to what happens now.

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Speaker 6: But then they'll do a five minute harp solo, like

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Speaker 6: Harpo will come out and actually play the harp for

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Speaker 6: five minutes in a comedy movie, and you're like, what

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Speaker 6: the hell.

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Speaker 2: Is going on? Well, I mean that legacy kind of

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Speaker 2: lived on in our eighties and nineties films where like

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Speaker 2: some band inexplicably had a full on song performance in

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Speaker 2: the middle of a film when you're like, what, like

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Speaker 2: why did they do?

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Speaker 1: The Blues Brothers is I mean, I've always said that

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Speaker 1: John Belushi is like a little bit puzzling to me

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Speaker 1: because I think because he, like Chris Farlee's was my

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Speaker 1: favorite like comedic figure growing up, and his whole stick

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Speaker 1: was like kind of an evolutionary Belushi. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Blues Brothers like when they just like break into long

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Speaker 1: moments of them doing like white guy blues for you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, who is this for other than you guys,

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Speaker 1: wether than the performers who made this movie.

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Speaker 2: Blame the cocaine man, blame thee you fucking sick dude.

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Speaker 2: And then we do like a harmonica so home. But

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Speaker 2: everybody fucking.

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Speaker 1: Loves that shit. Like people, I know so many people

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Speaker 1: who are like, oh, have you seen The Blues Brothers?

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Speaker 2: Though, Oh you like comedy? Who are you hanging around

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Speaker 2: a bunch of cops? Yeah it's cops.

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Speaker 1: It's mostly cops and the cops that I play cards with. Laurrie,

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Speaker 1: what's something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 4: I guess, well, if I'm going to go sports wise,

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Speaker 4: let's say swimming is underrated, you know, as an Olympic sport,

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Speaker 4: Synchronized swimming is underrated. Yeah, it's absolutely my favorite thing.

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Speaker 4: It's so beautiful and difficult and anytime you post a clip,

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Speaker 4: so and post the clip of Martin Short and Harry

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Speaker 4: Shearer from SML and it's like, guys, can these athletes

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Speaker 4: just do one Olympic big so that happing to see

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Speaker 4: that clip please?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: It is, I mean it's iconic, but it's it's one

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Speaker 2: of those things that I remember you the second you try.

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Speaker 2: That's when you have respect for synchronized swimmers because you're like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: what they're doing under well, okay, I can stay inverted underwater.

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Speaker 2: And then you're you're like fucking flailing because you can't

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Speaker 2: do like those like micro balance paddles that they do

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Speaker 2: like their hands and yeah, respect only that.

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Speaker 4: But they they all have to do them exactly the same.

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Speaker 4: So you know, but the eight of them and their

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Speaker 4: hands are right next to each other and they can't

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Speaker 4: mess up, and their legs have to say, their feet

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Speaker 4: have to you know, meet at the top that you

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Speaker 4: can have one foot you know, one person's feed higher

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Speaker 4: than the other.

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Speaker 3: So it's so hard.

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Speaker 4: But the team, the team version of it, you know,

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Speaker 4: just the individual stuff on its own is really difficult too.

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Speaker 2: But man, is there individual like dancing kind of it

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Speaker 2: used to be.

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Speaker 4: Like synchronized with the music. That's what they that's what

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Speaker 4: they meant.

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Speaker 2: But like, oh right, got it?

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Speaker 4: No, I mean like individually learning to do all those

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Speaker 4: skills and then there's eight of you together learning to

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Speaker 4: do it so that you're all you're you're as one.

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Speaker 2: Right right right? Holy ship, there's eight of them there.

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Speaker 2: I think they lost powers.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember.

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Speaker 4: It seems like at least six to eight on the

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Speaker 4: in the team.

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Speaker 2: That's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that ship might as well be like a

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Speaker 1: magic trick to me. I'm just like there's something I

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Speaker 1: don't understand because that is looks completely impossible to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really impressive.

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Speaker 1: Synchronized diving. Yeah, that was pretty fun. That's like very

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Speaker 1: meditative to just like watch people do that over and

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Speaker 1: over again. I got into like the last Olympics. I

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Speaker 1: would just like sit there and watch that for like

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Speaker 1: an hour straight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very cool looking. I like they let these

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Speaker 4: little sneaky sports in the Olympics.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody made up four years ago, did by.

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Speaker 4: Accident when they the same time as your friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it got invented like when somebody was trying to

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Speaker 1: break againness Book of World records, just like trying to

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, maybe most dives together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean because in twenty twenty eight, isn't

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have flag football? Aren't we in the LA Olympics?

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Speaker 2: So is that right? Yeah? Flag? Yeah, it's out there,

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Speaker 2: so and I means, like America, you better clean the

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Speaker 2: fuck up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's what kids are playing these days. I

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Speaker 1: feel like like young kids aren't playing like Pop Warner football,

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Speaker 1: at least not the ones who grow up in New

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Speaker 1: York City. Like I have nephews who just play like

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Speaker 1: flag football.

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Speaker 2: That's the version of.

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Speaker 1: Football that they play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, why not? I mean, which makes sense to me.

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Speaker 2: A lot of cautionary tales out there for banging your

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Speaker 2: fucking skull over and over and you know turns out yeah,

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Speaker 2: not being able to like navigate your own neighborhood. Did

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Speaker 2: you ever see that that one that like CT documentary

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Speaker 2: is like the one soccer player, this woman who just

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Speaker 2: headed the ball so many times, like it affected like

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Speaker 2: she needed like GPS to get around her town because

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Speaker 2: it was just like affecting so many things like that.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I was like, wow, wow, wow, wow wow.

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Speaker 4: I read but I didn't I didn't know that documentary

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Speaker 4: that's terrible. Was that ever gonna get better or she

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Speaker 4: just permanently.

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Speaker 2: I'm not did not feel hopeful. It was sort of

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Speaker 2: like it was it was sort of covering like all

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Speaker 2: kinds of sort of content. It was just like a

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Speaker 2: it was sort of showing many different contact sports athletes

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Speaker 2: and just sort of the varying degrees in which like

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Speaker 2: these like repetitive head impacts kind of like were affecting

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Speaker 2: people because it doesn't seem like across the board thing

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Speaker 2: with heading the soccer ball at least I'm not. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know about that, but that was like the first

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Speaker 2: time I saw him, I was like, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, he got his bell rung, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all. That's all. You just got all get

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Speaker 2: back up there, man, Back up there.

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Speaker 8: Man.

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Speaker 2: This kid can take a lick and keep on ticking

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Speaker 2: those stars you're seeing. That's your future, kid, when you're

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Speaker 2: a superstar, lean into it into it. So brutal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, I can't navigate my neighborhood without GPS.

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Speaker 1: But that's another story. We'll talk about that another time.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I need a documentary crew follow me here. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll be right back. And

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Speaker 1: we're back. We're back, and this Taylor Swift story just

404
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 1: won't quit that people. People have some have some theories

405
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Speaker 1: as to how the Chiefs made it to the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. They've made

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Speaker 1: it only four of the last five Super Bowls. How

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Speaker 1: could they have possibly gotten here?

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say what I mean, I'm not an

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Speaker 2: NFL fan, but like, at the beginning of the season

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Speaker 2: would have been absolutely absurd to think that the Chiefs

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Speaker 2: would have gotten close to being in the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: No, they would have been the favorite or one of

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Speaker 1: the things.

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Speaker 2: They won the championship last year exactly like I love that.

416
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: They're like, yo, man, this whole fucking shit's engineered. So

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Speaker 2: we touched on the frantic screamings of the right after

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Speaker 2: the Chiefs booked their ticket to the Super Bowl, and

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Speaker 2: you know, we talked about all these conspiracies that came out.

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Speaker 2: Vivic Ramaswami was like, you'll see this completely fake, propped up,

421
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: engineered duo to help Joe Byron. It'll it'll you'll see

422
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: the impact it'll have in a few months. And now

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Speaker 2: it's only gotten like more momentum. Since then I thought

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Speaker 2: it would just be like okay in passing, like you

425
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Speaker 2: just want to say something about the fear of Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 2: But on Newsmax they really went to an interesting level

427
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Speaker 2: with a combination of satanic panic and anti Semitism. George

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Speaker 2: Soros Bookiyman kind of shit. Allison Steinberg, who has a

429
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: show on Newsmax, regurgitated basically a combination of Ramaswamy's tweet,

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Speaker 2: like almost word for word, which is very weird. I

431
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: was like, you're saying the vivic Ramaswami tweet but pretend

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00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 2: to passing it off as your own words, and also

433
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: a combination of like the debunked Pentagon Nato syop where

434
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift was seen as an asset that we also

435
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: talked about a couple weeks ago, where that was merely

436
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Speaker 2: like just not even it was hypothetical about how a

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00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: celebrity would use their influence on the internet. And I

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00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 2: think they also talk to you some Game of Thrones

439
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: characters as an example. But anyway, let's just allow her

440
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: to first let people know how like, what's really going

441
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: on here? What are the Democrats really trying? What's their

442
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: endgame here with all this Taylor Swift crap.

443
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 9: Guys by and can't seem to turn off. The question is,

444
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 9: with the wide open border and millions of illegals pouring

445
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 9: and daily, the stealing at the ballot boxes and censoring

446
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 9: conservative news and Republican incumbents being removed from the ballot

447
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 9: and financing Nikki Haley and so on, why do the

448
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 9: powers that be need this dynamic duo to sway the vote?

449
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 9: Have enough dirty tricks up their sleeves as it is.

450
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 9: Think about it, Taylor Swift is really owned by Soros.

451
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 9: We might actually have a rare chance to unite against

452
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 9: him using Taylor Swift as the trojan horse. Instead of

453
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,479
Speaker 9: pushing the alphabet mafia and murdering of babies to her fans,

454
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 9: she should be warning about the dangers of the corrupt eleites.

455
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: Anyway, goes on there. Wow, this oughts to do with

456
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: the fact that like Soros apparently was like his one

457
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: of his companies was an investor in buying her catalog.

458
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's crazy is that Taylor Swift also posted something

459
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 5: once that was kind of dog whistling about Soros, and

460
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 5: people were like, oh, man.

461
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 2: Like Taylor, why didn't they show that, Cliff, Yeah, she's.

462
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 5: On your sign kind she about the new World Order.

463
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't know, like what exactly you know?

464
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: That was her take. And then Greg Kelly, who we

465
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 2: also talked about a couple like I think last week

466
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 2: when Trump had misidentified Nicky Hayley as Nancy Pelosi, and

467
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: he was like, actually he was deploying his sinility tactically

468
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: to highlight Pelosi's role in January sixth and really spun

469
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: that shit. He's trying a more as I would say,

470
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: christ based attack on Taylor Swift and why she needs

471
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: to be ignored or at least people need to be

472
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: warned about, you know, h double hockey sticks if you

473
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: go down this road with Taylor.

474
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 8: I kind of have a problem though, with the hardcore

475
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 8: Taylor Swift fans. They are totally over the top worshiping

476
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 8: this woman. Have you seen any of the pictures of

477
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 8: her in concert? I wouldn't go myself. I don't do

478
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 8: that kind of thing anymore.

479
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: But I think what they call it is.

480
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 8: They're elevating her to an idol idolatry. This is a

481
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 8: little bit what idolatry I think looks like and You're

482
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 8: not supposed to do that. In fact, if you look

483
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 8: it up in the Bible, it's a sin.

484
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: So I don't like that you do that. I like,

485
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: you just lost the train of thought.

486
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: He's just so he acts like he just invented the

487
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: term like pop idol there, like where he just heard

488
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: it for the first time, like we've I don't.

489
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 5: Know, I'm really making a lot of sense to me,

490
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 5: Like why.

491
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: You fear that? Yeah? Are you? Are you worried about

492
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: the state of your soul in eternity? Molly as you

493
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: it's like like pop idols.

494
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 5: And then I was like, wow, worshiping false idols?

495
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn, go on, Greg Kelly, That's what I'm saying,

496
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: Like it's like, sir, y'all worship at the altar of

497
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: Donald Trump.

498
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 5: Well, it's also funny that they're like, yeah, normally we

499
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 5: like football, but now.

500
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love we love the racist name, the problematically

501
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: named football team from his from Missouri, right, and the

502
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: white guys.

503
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 5: Like this Kansas, Kansas City team with the racist name

504
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 5: is two.

505
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: Woke, right, right.

506
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: I think they're right to connect this to idolatry and

507
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: the idea that Taylor Swift and like big stars have

508
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: come to replace We've talked about this idea before, but

509
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: like the the size and fervor with which people are

510
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: devoted to their favorite musicians, Like we saw a bunch

511
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: of people like driving their favorite musician to like number one,

512
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: like voting basically just like playing the thing playing their

513
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: songs over and over again as a form of devotion

514
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: to Like I think it was Britney Spears over the weekend,

515
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: but like that is a new yeah, and then Nikki obviously.

516
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: But Jesus.

517
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 5: Fans of Jesus are the original barbs.

518
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, but that has gone as that has

519
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: gone down, and as more and more people identify as

520
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: like no religion, this is kind of what has come

521
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: in to replace it, like Star Wars fandom, Taylor Swift fandom,

522
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: And I don't think they're wrong. I just think they're

523
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: wrong to be to moral upset about it because they're

524
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: doing the exact same thing.

525
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, Donald Trump, people shouldn't worship famous people. But they're like,

526
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 5: you're worshiping the wrong famous people.

527
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: Worship this fuck face? Please you worship our.

528
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 5: Yeah No, I know, because I saw people too being

529
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 5: like what, I'm shocked, Why don't maga people love Taylor

530
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 5: Swift and Travis Kelcey, the all American prom queen and

531
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 5: king kind of thing. But you know it's also Travis

532
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 5: Kelcey did a did a vaccine commercial.

533
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: You mean, mister, he's mister.

534
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 5: So they do think this is kind of a brand alignment.

535
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 5: Now I'm gonna put on my tinfoil hat.

536
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 2: Here go ahead.

537
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 5: There are people who who do think the Taylor and

538
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 5: Travis thing is sort of a PR stunt. They're moving

539
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: really fat.

540
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't surprise me.

541
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: Well, here, I'll tell you my real opinion, my non

542
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 5: crazy real opinion, is that she's trying to get back

543
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 5: at her ex boyfriend. She she was in a relationship,

544
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 5: no if Joe Alwin, the British guy. Oh okay, she

545
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 5: was in a relationship, not the racist guy. She's a

546
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 5: relationship that was her first attempt to get back at

547
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 5: the boyfriend. She was in a relationship for six years

548
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 5: that she thought, I think was gonna culminate in marriage,

549
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 5: and then instead he dumped her and she's very hurt.

550
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 5: But she's also Taylor Swift, so she's like, I'm going

551
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 5: to use my huge public platform to make him feel bad,

552
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 5: and then instead I think it's sort of maybe making

553
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 5: that ex boyfriend think he made the right decision because

554
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 5: he was the one who didn't like all the publicity stuff, right,

555
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 5: that goes along with the Taylor Swift circus. And I

556
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 5: think she's kind of acting out what she would like

557
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 5: to be happening in her personal life. And and her

558
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 5: and Travis Kelcey are kind of shit because like it

559
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 5: makes sense everybody, just everybody seeing all these Taylor Swift

560
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 5: friends like freaking out about them kissing on the field,

561
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 5: you know, after the game and being like he's gonna

562
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 5: propose when the Chiefs win, He's gonna propose on the field,

563
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 5: And then somebody else was like, yeah, they've been dating

564
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 5: for four months, right, yeah, right, you know, And like

565
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 5: I do think her whole thing is this kind of

566
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 5: fantasy image of like, you know, falling in love and

567
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 5: being like the perfect all American gal. But like she's

568
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 5: got to know on some level, they're like, you can't

569
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 5: marry somebody you've only been dating for four months, even

570
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 5: if America wants you to.

571
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's already like we already know what that album

572
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: sounds like, like rushing it after four months kind of

573
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: but that just seems like.

574
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 5: A thing you do after you've been in a long

575
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 5: ass relationship that you thought you were going to be

576
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 5: settled down and then you're like, Okay, I'm ready to

577
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 5: be fucking settled down.

578
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: Who's around, Like, who's the next person?

579
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I'm ready to get married and that guy

580
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 5: didn't want to marry me, so so like, oh, this

581
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 5: football player might want to marry me because as a

582
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 5: brand alignment, it makes a lot of sense for both

583
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 5: of us. And he's an athlete who might want to retire,

584
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 5: and then he could be mister Taylor Swift. And he

585
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 5: seems to be the first of her boyfriends ever who

586
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 5: really likes being mister Taylor Swift. Which is a big

587
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 5: thing she needs in somebody is that they have to

588
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 5: be willing to like be a fucking idiot for her publicly.

589
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 5: You know, for sure, she doesn't want a private relationship.

590
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 5: She wants a public relationship. And he's a football star.

591
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the unique skills that she has,

593
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: is that she is a public figure, like to her core, right,

594
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: there's no part of her that is like I'm secretly

595
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: a private person, but I'm like playing this role. I

596
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: think that like any feelings she has for him are

597
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: like tied up with understanding what that would like. I

598
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: feel like she's camera away when she's in a room

599
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: by herself.

600
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. And I think she's very insecure, and so

601
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 5: she needs everybody to see that a man wants to

602
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: kiss her in front of everybody, you know, right, I

603
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 5: think you don't get that famous unless you're seeking validation.

604
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 5: She seems like she's seeking the public's validation of like, yeah,

605
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 5: I'm awesome, right, everybody wants me to be their girlfriend

606
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 5: because I'm the best, right Yeah.

607
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean with the Republicans too, Like it seems

608
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: like a lot of this I mean and that analysis.

609
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: I wish they would do that. They're like starting to

610
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: be like just reading her to be like that's how

611
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: they're going to get her to go the other way.

612
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: They're like, we know what's up, Taylor, Like you want

613
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: this to work so bad? No, I know what's up.

614
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 5: But I think she wants Joe Alwen to see these

615
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 5: clips of her, like, you know, spinning around on the

616
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 5: field kissing this other guy and be like, damn, I fucked.

617
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: Up, right, you know. He's like English, He's like there's

618
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: only one football love. Yeah, so so good, and she's like,

619
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: do you like this? How's this joke?

620
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 5: He did something amazing, which is that on her birthday,

621
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 5: when everybody was like expecting him to look, you know,

622
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 5: looking to see if he would post something on her birthday,

623
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 5: he posted a pro Palestine thing.

624
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: Mm. That was oh wow, just because he knew there'd

625
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: be so much attention. Joe Alwin Yeah interesting.

626
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I think he's you know, because people are

627
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 5: also like, oh, he kind of like tamp down that

628
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 5: part of her that's like needs the validation all the time,

629
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 5: and that's why she was kind of quiet for a

630
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 5: few years. And then when they broke up, it's like

631
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 5: the part of her that needs that public exposure just

632
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 5: went crazy and right. And it's happened before where she's

633
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 5: gotten so overexposed that people are like sick of her.

634
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 5: And she's definitely headed that direction again no matter what.

635
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: So but we just needed to last till November and

636
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: then go back into the I.

637
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 5: Mean, if the team loses, if they don't get to

638
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 5: the super Bowl and they don't win the super Bowl,

639
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 5: like that relationship's over.

640
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: I know, right, are there taking are people taking prop bets?

641
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: She leaves him for the quarterback of the forty nine ers.

642
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 5: No, I mean, I mean, I think she's also doing

643
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: I do think this was sort of a publicist set

644
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 5: up in the first place. You know that they were like,

645
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 5: he's he he allegedly was trying to get a famous

646
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 5: girlfriend all year and was hitting up making the Stallion

647
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 5: apparently Wow, yeah, like he was. He was allegedly trying

648
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 5: to become famous. Has this publicist, That's why he hosted SNL.

649
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 5: He wanted to be a name brand and dating Taylor

650
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 5: Swift incredible way for everyone to do that. So I

651
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 5: think even if they are a little bit playing it

652
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: up for the cameras, like they seem to like each

653
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 5: other enough, you.

654
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: Know, a plus to that publicist.

655
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 5: I think it's like they it's it's been pointed out

656
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 5: that they both date like they they're not each other's

657
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 5: usual types. Sure, she dates little British guys.

658
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean Molly Lambert, one of the great profilers and

659
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: thinkers on celebrity. We're so lucky to have you for

660
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: this conversation. I did not know about the Travis kelcey.

661
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: That the idea that Travis kelce was like on a

662
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: make me famous tour and even considered dating Megan the

663
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: Stallion for a while. Where is that like dumont or

664
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: where is that coming from?

665
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 5: I mean yeah, basically, you know, yeah, sure, yeah. I

666
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 5: mean people said, there's somebody else he was trying to date.

667
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: People said, basically he was looking to become a household name.

668
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 5: He's got a podcast, as we all know with his brother.

669
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 5: He's trying to become a sports personality who's more, you know,

670
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 5: who's famous, on top of being an athlete, so that

671
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 5: when he's not in the NFL anymore, he can be

672
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 5: like a famous sports personality who's on TV. That's why

673
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 5: he hosted SNL because he, you know, wants people to think, oh,

674
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 5: he's funny for an athlete. He's kind of cool for

675
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 5: an athlete. He's smart for a football player. Honestly, his

676
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 5: podcast is pretty funny.

677
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: Well, I mean yeah, look, I haven't listened to it

678
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: called Jack, you simply must.

679
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 5: I like to dip into athlete podcasts. I listened to Tom

680
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 5: Brady's podcast ones because I just how I imagined it

681
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 5: in my head was being Tom Brady being like Tom Brady,

682
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 5: brain don't work so good, right, mouth work fine, But

683
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 5: you know he talked about he said stuff about football

684
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 5: he kind of had. I was like, oh, he's got

685
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 5: I guess I've never heard him talk. He just looks

686
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 5: like such a dummy that I assumed he would sound

687
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 5: like one. Right, Travis Kelcey is like, I'm cool for

688
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 5: a football player.

689
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm not like the other players.

690
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 5: He's not like the other players. He's funny. He was

691
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 5: good on SNL also, But like it's definitely like, you

692
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 5: know there's managers and agents involved in this, that that

693
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 5: part's not made up.

694
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right, right, yeah, because I mean, like you know,

695
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: that publicist and stuff will be like, here's a menu

696
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: of options to keep you in the news, which one

697
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: would you like to do? You know?

698
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 5: Yeah? And I think her first attempt to get back

699
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 5: at the ex boyfriend, which was dating Mattie Healy from

700
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 5: the nineteen seventy five like, didn't work and blew up

701
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 5: in everybody's face kind of because he kept saying out

702
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 5: of pocket things. Unclear how their relationship ended, either she

703
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 5: dropped him because of the ice by stuff or he

704
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 5: just disappeared because the heat got too hot. And then

705
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 5: comes this opportunity to date a football player who is

706
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 5: very famous and all American, and she's obsessed with looking

707
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: like like she can keep a man that's like her

708
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 5: main because look, because people that are she's never been

709
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 5: in therapy famously, and I saw, you know, people that

710
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 5: are her fans saying, oh, well, you know, she's broke,

711
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 5: got out of this six year relationship. She should really

712
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 5: take some time to work on herself before she gets

713
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 5: in a serious relationship again. She should, like, you know,

714
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 5: be with herself, be with see what she wants. And

715
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: she doesn't do that. She doesn't fuck that.

716
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: She was like she just conquers the world.

717
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 5: She just needs a boyfriend because she needs everyone to

718
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 5: know that she's like hot and desirable, and that's the

719
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 5: way that she conveys it to the world because she's

720
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 5: like the most heteronormous person on earth. You know, She's like,

721
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 5: no one will know I'm hot unless I'm dating a

722
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 5: big hot football player.

723
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: Just big chunk of beef man. Yeah. I mean, I

724
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: think she's like.

725
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 5: Addicted to the idea of being in love to an

726
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 5: extent that maybe it doesn't even really matter who the

727
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 5: guy is, you know, which I think is a lot

728
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 5: of people are just kind of like, well, I want

729
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 5: to be married, So who who's going to marry me?

730
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: Right? I mean just this like with the whole obsession

731
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: with the right on Taylor, it's like, really, I'm still

732
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, like what the fuck is going on.

733
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 5: That's what's funny, is like her fans are like, wow,

734
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 5: you know, fairytale love. She never gives up on love,

735
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 5: and now she and Travis are in love. Right wing

736
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 5: people are like, she's a sucubust. She's an unmarried woman

737
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 5: in her thirties and she's all used up and her

738
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 5: eggs are dying. That's what I saw from the right

739
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 5: wing as being like, she encourages abortions and he's mister

740
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 5: vaccine and together they're leading people away from the light

741
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 5: of Christ over to the dark side.

742
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the dark side of wokeism.

743
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 5: And they're like and they're like, you guys, can't use

744
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 5: this all American bullshit.

745
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: That's our thing, right, I Mean, A lot of the

746
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: ink seems to be coming from this poll too recently

747
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 2: came out that said eighteen percent of voters, not just

748
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, fans of voters said they would probably support

749
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: whoever Taylor Swift supported, and then it also said that

750
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 2: seventeen percent would be put off by a candidate that's

751
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: Swift supported. So like on Fox, you're like, well, that

752
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: just cancels each other out, so we don't have to

753
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: worry about this. We don't have to worry about this.

754
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: But I don't, I mean whatever, that's there's like this

755
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: really interesting fear and like I feel like this desperation

756
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: about talking about her. It feels like twofold right. One

757
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: is they're hell bent on winning by any means in November,

758
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: so anything that could introduce any sort of wobble to

759
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 2: their confidence is like fucking existential because they say absolutely,

760
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: Like you see all the fucking think tanks going all

761
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: in on Project twenty twenty five and being ready to

762
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, let's just fucking flip the switch on

763
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: the dark side like this November.

764
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

765
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 5: And she also used to stay out of it. That

766
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 5: was like the thing was she used to not ever

767
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 5: say anything about politics because allegedly her dad is like

768
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 5: a Trump voter, you know, and she didn't want to

769
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 5: stir the pot. And so then she got attacked from

770
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 5: all sides when she wasn't saying anything where people are like, oh,

771
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 5: it's because she's secretly Trump voter. It's because she is

772
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 5: a Biden voter but doesn't want her Trump voter fans

773
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 5: to know that because it'll affect album sales, but.

774
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem to have done anything. No, I mean I.

775
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 5: Think you know, she came out and said she capitulated.

776
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, she said, yeah. She says as little as she

777
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: possibly can for it not to be a thing. Yes, right,

778
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: but you can't say nothing and have it not be

779
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: a thing.

780
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 5: She knows a lot of her fans are these kind

781
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 5: of like Christian Karen's too, where she's like, they don't

782
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 5: need to know that. I'm like an adult city girl

783
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 5: who believes an abortion, because then they won't maybe buy

784
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 5: my records, but I think they will. They for records anyway.

785
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 5: And I think she did say something a little bit

786
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 5: pro choice and like all, maybe even a little bit

787
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 5: pro Palestine.

788
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: So do we think there's never been a like it's

789
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: always seemed like very out of touch to me that

790
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party is. So I don't even know if

791
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: it's a Democratic Party or if it's just the mainstream

792
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: media that emphasizes like, well, the Democrats have Katie Perry

793
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: like performing at their you know, and paign event so well, that's.

794
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 5: Part of it, is like the way that they're just

795
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 5: completely putting everything on pop culture and being like it

796
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 5: has always been like idiotic, like the Pokemon go to

797
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 5: the polls like like, no, give us healthcare, give us

798
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 5: fucking healthcare.

799
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: Right.

800
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 5: The fact that they're like, no, we need to get

801
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 5: a team of famous people to endorse this candidate because

802
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 5: that's all anybody cares about. It feels very much like

803
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 5: the you know, playlist politics, where it's just like, no,

804
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 5: nobody cares what's on your playlist, Give us any actionable

805
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 5: change that will improve people's lives because everybody's fucking struggling

806
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 5: and miserable. Yeah, which maybe is a good segue over

807
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 5: to Elmo.

808
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, like I think, just like the

809
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: last thing of like I think this is also just

810
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: a perfect opportunity for the right wing media to not

811
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: talk about all the l's Trump's been taking in court recently,

812
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 2: because like they don't want to talk about the eighty

813
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: three million dollar judgment that was like awarded to Egene

814
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 2: Carol And now this week we're going to find out

815
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: what what he's going to owe for all the fraudgilant

816
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: bs with the fucking Trump organization and Leticia James is

817
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: seeking three hundred and seventy million, So this dude could

818
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: be close to a half billion dollars in the hole. Yeah,

819
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: but he might still shit goes.

820
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 5: Be president and they of course, and they might use

821
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 5: that to be like, oh, they're coming for him because

822
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 5: he's too powerful, you know, they're trying to take him down,

823
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 5: and now he's the underdog, which is like how he

824
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 5: operates is convincing a bunch of privileged people that they're

825
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 5: the underdog, right.

826
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean he kind of his you know, if you

827
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 2: think about it, you know, I've just just been he's

828
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: been sitting with that. He's a fighter in down but

829
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: never till the end. But yeah, I think again, it's

830
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 2: just there's always like an aversion to talk about like

831
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: whatever is happening with him in a negative sense. I

832
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 2: feel like a lot of this Swift stuff, Like while

833
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: a lot of people are like, oh they're so fucking

834
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: scared of Taylor Swift, I'm like they also don't want

835
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: to talk about the news too. So this is like

836
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 2: a good thing just to be like, you know, getting

837
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: people on like an anti Swift thing.

838
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe it is a si op, but from the right.

839
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be vary them to like be screaming

840
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: about a syop that they are actually conducting as they're

841
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: screaming about the syop.

842
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: It's kind of their move.

843
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come

844
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: back and talk about how everyone's doing. We'll be right back,

845
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: and we're back. And you know, we've been covering this

846
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: show's been we've been doing this daily show for a

847
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: long time, and you know, covering the incredibly consistent energy

848
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: pushing back against ideas like defund the police and abolitionism

849
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: coming from places like The New York Times, you know,

850
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: places that coming into adulthood, I had been told we're

851
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: like liberal or progressive, and it feels like there's a

852
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: lot of parts of the mainstream media that have kind

853
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: of pushed past the idea of defunding the police, like

854
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: it's settled law among people that like defund the police

855
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: with bad politics, Like everybody heard James Carvedll say it,

856
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, I guess guess that's true. If

857
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: that old swamp creature says it, that old snake say it,

858
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: then I don't like that.

859
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's backwards idea.

860
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: But how I'd just be curious to hear from you

861
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: on like, how are you seeing progress made in the

862
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: fight for abolishing the current system of like policing and

863
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: human caging. Maybe just talking about like what is abolitionism

864
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: currently as you see it, and what are the areas

865
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: that abolitionists are currently working on.

866
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I would say it's incredibly broad abolitionism.

867
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 3: You know, people have multiple understanding of understandings of it,

868
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 3: but the one I worked from is abolitionism is the

869
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: fight to end enslavement, incarceration, and the exploitation of people

870
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: that is based in the model of chattel slavery. And

871
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: so what we are in is a continuation of that

872
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 3: of chattel slavery and that exploitation of people, in the

873
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: imprisonment and enslavement of people, and we see it in

874
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 3: the ways in which our systems have built. Now that

875
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 3: is broad, because we actually see that in our mental

876
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 3: health system, we see this in our quote unquote child

877
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 3: welfare system, and we see it in our incarceration systems,

878
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 3: in our school systems, and so there are a lot

879
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: of different places to fight this and say, you know,

880
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: people have the right to their own autonomy. We don't

881
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 3: have the right to say that only certain people deserve freedom,

882
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: deserve liberation, deserve a second chance, deserve to learn and

883
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 3: grow and change and be a part of community, and

884
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 3: that we will look at the problems we face as

885
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: a community with the fundamental belief that as a community

886
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 3: we can solve it because these problems don't exist in

887
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: a vacuum. If these problems are rooted in society and community,

888
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: in our systems, then we can solve them. And I

889
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: think that that is fundamental to this work. And so

890
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: you know a lot of people will try to fight

891
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: that and say, you know, with fear mongering, well, if

892
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 3: there's no cops tomorrow, what are you going to do?

893
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: As if there isn't a process, isn't the system? And

894
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 3: often I would say, you know that fear mongering glazes

895
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: over how incredibly brutal the reality is, right, which is

896
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 3: that you know, we have a system that does nothing

897
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: to deter harm our crime, that is stealing away large

898
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: percentages of our population, that is leading to the deaths

899
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: of hundreds, if not thousands of people by police officers

900
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 3: every year, that is leading to the thefts of children

901
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 3: from black, brown and Indigenous homes, that is leading to

902
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 3: the forced treatment and incarceration of mentally ill people. And

903
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 3: we're not seafer, We're no safer, right, And so this

904
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 3: idea that trying something new would be worse how much.

905
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah than this?

906
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a system that like insert you know, exports

907
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: brutality into the world that we live.

908
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: In, right, and reinforces societal inequities that create brutality, that

909
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 3: create harm and violence, and you know, and I think

910
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 3: that's why we're force fat all of these you know,

911
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 3: stories and cop shows of if it weren't for a cop,

912
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: you know. And I think one of the most important

913
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: things that was said to me by Genia Kahn years back.

914
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: You were talking and they said, you know, cops can't

915
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: prevent crime, they can only respond after it's happened. And

916
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 3: yet we act as if that's the episode, like you

917
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 3: can't you know, unharm someone with police officer, and if anything,

918
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: they're showing up and creating a whole new level of crime.

919
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 3: And so this idea that it would make us safer

920
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 3: just doesn't make any sense. And so I think it's

921
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: important to recognize like that there's something so deeply hopeful

922
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 3: and beautiful and abolitionism in that fundamentally it believes in

923
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 3: people like it believes that we can actually solve this,

924
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 3: that no one is irredeemable, that we can look at

925
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: societal issues and address them and change the way that

926
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 3: we relate to each other, that we can heal each other,

927
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: and that yes, we can address safety at the same time.

928
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean it's perfect, but oh my goodness,

929
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 3: what we have right now is is causing more harm

930
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 3: than good. And so that means that there's so many

931
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 3: different ways in which we can do this work, and

932
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: you can pick different spots, and yeah, it can seem

933
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 3: like we'll never get there right that we're not going

934
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,959
Speaker 3: to have a time whether aren't policing, But every time

935
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 3: that we can kind of remove the task given to

936
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: policing InCAR thural systems, every time that we can dismantle

937
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 3: pieces of it and strengthen alternatives, we're doing really important

938
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 3: abolitionists work. And we can do that and still say

939
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 3: this shouldn't exist. So I always say that, like it

940
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 3: is abolitionists to say I don't want cops in schools.

941
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: It's abolitionists to say that, you know, people need to

942
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 3: be given alternatives to incarceration. It is abolitionists to say

943
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 3: that people shouldn't be given, you know, forced treatment for

944
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: mental health issues against their will. It is abolitionists to

945
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: do all of these. And I can say that work

946
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: for and saying I don't want any cops, you know,

947
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 3: I can say that right while also working towards these

948
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: things that are available to me right now.

949
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I think, especially when it relates to policing, right,

950
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 2: and we, like you said, the status quo is violence

951
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: is dysfunction, is increased harm. It's not solution based, it's

952
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 2: not about identifying root causes. Yet so many people are

953
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: so frightened to make the change that like the fear

954
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: instantly turns like passionate defenses of the status quo. So

955
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: then the next thing that you get offered, especially from

956
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: legislators politicians, is our reforms. Right, and we talk a

957
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: lot about reform is not we're just We're just you're

958
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: just putting different, a different code of paint on the

959
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 2: same problem. How do you sort of like balance obviously

960
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: the need for these kinds of like deeper changes or

961
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 2: these different like different kind of emphasis alongside like the reforms,

962
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 2: because a lot of the times you get these sort

963
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: of these debates now where people are like, well, don't

964
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: let the perfect be the enemy the good. They're saying

965
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: they're they'll tolling cops to use a slightly lighter baton

966
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: or something, and we're supposed to be like, oh, okay, yes, sure,

967
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: but like, how do we sort of in a world

968
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: where people are so focused and able to say like, no,

969
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: like a lot of our crime is because of desperation

970
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: or lack of support. That's what we need to be doing.

971
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear about anything unless I mean

972
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: talk to me when we're getting rid of qualified immunity

973
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 2: or something like that. How do you how should people

974
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: sort of like look at this balance of understanding what glacial,

975
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: incremental sort of reform can do versus trying to like,

976
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: for lack of a better word, hope for something revolutionary,

977
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: something different, something that's sort of upending the status quo.

978
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 3: That's a great question, and it is something that we

979
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 3: talk about in the book. It's so vital that we

980
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: understand the difference between like true liberation, liberatory work, and

981
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 3: harm reduction and recognize what's neither, because a lot of

982
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: what we say is police reform is neither harm reduction

983
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: or liberatory work, and we have to say, at least

984
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 3: give us some harm reduction. Right, So it's really important

985
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: to listen to the people most impacted by it and

986
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 3: the people who are actually you know, experts on this

987
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 3: from the perspective of communities harmed, right, and say no,

988
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 3: this doesn't work, and we know this doesn't work, and

989
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 3: listen to that and be really really clear, because people

990
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 3: will sell you anything and call it revolutionary, and then

991
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: we will they'll label, you know, harm reduction as like

992
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,439
Speaker 3: this huge attack on the system and we're not even

993
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 3: getting to like the meat of it. Harm reduction matters,

994
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 3: absolutely matters, because the truth is is if we have

995
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 3: these long term, big goals, we have to be alive

996
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: to get.

997
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: There, right.

998
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: But that means we have to be honest about what

999
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 3: it is. And so you know when, first of all,

1000
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 3: if it's offered to us by the system, throw it away.

1001
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: You got that idea, Oh okay, we don't want that, right,

1002
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: You got to listen. We have to listen and listen

1003
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: to the communities who've been building alternatives, right, because communities

1004
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't we build alternatives. Some of those are revolutionary, some

1005
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 3: of those are harm reduction, right, and so we already

1006
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: kind of know what direction works and what direction doesn't.

1007
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 3: And so when it comes to issues that are as

1008
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 3: big as like policing and say, we would hate you know,

1009
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: we don't want this system here. You know, harm reduction,

1010
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: you know would be things like one, you know, getting

1011
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: police out of officers out of schools. Right, the systems

1012
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: still exists, but we don't need the officers in schools.

1013
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 3: Studies have shown time and time again that you know,

1014
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 3: it leads to an increase in arrests a black and

1015
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: brand and indigenous and disabled students with no actual reduction

1016
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 3: in harm. And it's not in whether they're you know, arrested,

1017
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: has no ties to violence in schools, drugs in schools

1018
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 3: or anything like that. It's just do you have black students?

1019
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: Do you have cops? Now we have more black students arrested,

1020
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 3: so we know it doesn't work, right, So harm reduction

1021
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,479
Speaker 3: would be you know, getting them out, and that isn't

1022
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: you know, it's an abolitionist practice in that it is,

1023
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 3: you know, getting them out, but it's not getting rid

1024
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 3: of the system. Other ones would be you know, before

1025
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 3: you start referring making calls kicking kids out of school,

1026
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: and getting them in this in these pipelines. You know what,

1027
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: who oversees them, right, who approves that? What records do

1028
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 3: you have, whatever things are you trying first? Those are

1029
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: all things that are really important to look at while saying,

1030
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: while recognizing if the system still stays in place, it's

1031
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 3: not getting rid of the system, and so we can

1032
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 3: work towards that, push towards that, don't accept anything that

1033
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: re entrenches the system. And so retraining always re entrenches

1034
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 3: the system. Retraining is never going to be a harm reduction.

1035
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 3: It's just putting more money into a system and asking

1036
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 3: you know, and we've shown that they don't come out

1037
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 3: you know, gentler kind or more understanding of community. They

1038
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 3: come out with more police officers, you know, and they

1039
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 3: come out with more levels of excuses for why they're

1040
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: doing what they're doing. And so just listening to community

1041
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 3: on that is really really vital. But when it comes

1042
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 3: to every day and if you're looking at smaller things

1043
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: we can do, you know, if you live in an

1044
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 3: area that has cash bail programs, getting rid of cash

1045
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 3: bail is one of the most vital things you can

1046
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 3: do right now, right you know, in Washington here we

1047
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 3: have like to stay where people actually have to pay

1048
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: for their incarceration if they work out a deal and

1049
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 3: they want to go in early so that they aren't

1050
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 3: away from their family for three years and maybe six months,

1051
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: they have to pay for every day that they're in there.

1052
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: And so, you know, things like that are wild classes basist,

1053
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 3: and getting rid of that doesn't get rid of the system.

1054
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 3: But it's also a really really important step that we

1055
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 3: can take right now to reduce the numbers of people

1056
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: caught up in this popular in these systems, and how

1057
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: long they're caught up in them, and that gives us

1058
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: what we need, the strength we need in community to

1059
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 3: keep fighting.

1060
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: Just how do you think about the pushback from the

1061
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: mainstream media? Just that's been something that I've tried to

1062
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: get my head around, trying to picture the editorial meetings

1063
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: at these you know, major journalistic institutions where they decide,

1064
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: let's go with this story where the police are the

1065
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: only source for the information. Do you think of that

1066
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: as being put in place by powers, like architecturally structured

1067
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: to put this power in place, Because I also feel

1068
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: like there's also some some desire for that narrative coming

1069
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: from below also, like from the readership, and I'm just wondering,

1070
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: like how you think about that? Hey, does that inform

1071
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: how you approach people when you're trying to talk to

1072
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: them about you know, the car soural system and you know,

1073
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: things like that. There's this big infrastructure of power and

1074
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: money that is like trying to keep these institutions in place.

1075
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: But then there's also people who are just like really

1076
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: quick to believe the bullshit stories. And I don't know

1077
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: if it's because that's what they've always had, if it's

1078
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: because you know, it preserves their feeling of superiority and protection,

1079
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: but just just interested to hear your thoughts on that.

1080
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 3: I think it's a mix of things, right, So one,

1081
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 3: I do think that if people were, you know, if

1082
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 3: the reality of systemic oppression were laid bare for all people,

1083
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 3: and the way in which people have been made to

1084
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: participate in the impression of others was laid bare for

1085
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 3: all people, that people would decline to participate in that,

1086
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 3: especially if they were able to see how it impacts

1087
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 3: their own personal safety. No one is safe in a

1088
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 3: police state, whether or not we've been told we are.

1089
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 3: Even if you have privilege, only the very select few

1090
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: are and often that is only for a limited time,

1091
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 3: but you know, that is something that people don't want,

1092
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 3: and so that is often kept from the people who

1093
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 3: are made to participate most, right, people with the most privileged.

1094
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 3: The reality of how unsafe we are is something that

1095
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 3: many of us can't escape, you know, and which is

1096
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: why we're often the first and the most outspoken about

1097
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 3: trying to change it. But that unsafety exists for everyone,

1098
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 3: and that culpability exists, and people want to avoid it,

1099
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 3: and people have been protected from it, and they're you know,

1100
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: their bellies are soft to it, you know what I mean,

1101
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 3: Like they're they don't they haven't built up that tolerance

1102
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,919
Speaker 3: for it, and have been told that they would fall

1103
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 3: apart if they knew the reality that they couldn't handle it,

1104
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 3: and they're fed a constant diet of fear. When we

1105
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 3: look at our media, and this constant fear of the other,

1106
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 3: fear of this danger that is pumped into people. Right,

1107
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 3: we look at these shows where it's just this random

1108
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: person gets a thirst for blood and is out murdering

1109
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 3: people who's going to come help you, or you know,

1110
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: like this, you know, gang violence where the gang leaders

1111
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 3: are just soul as creatures who popped out of nowhere

1112
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 3: and they're going to take over your city if you don't,

1113
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 3: you know, have this. People are fed that, and people

1114
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: who don't have that firsthand experience with the reality of

1115
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 3: these systems and are living this completely alternate reality and

1116
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 3: are being told no other reality exists that you know,

1117
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 3: you you would feel comfortable calling a cop knowing they

1118
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 3: could help you get your out of a tree or whatever,

1119
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 3: and you'd be safe and everyone would because that's your reality.

1120
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 3: Challenging that makes the world terrifying, right, It can make

1121
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 3: the world team really terrifying. Challenging how you've been made

1122
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 3: a part of it can seem really terrifying. It can

1123
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 3: make you feel really powerless in a way that you know,

1124
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 3: many of us have never had the luxury of avoiding.

1125
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 3: And people will put up walls around that. And it

1126
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: has little to do with intent. It has. You can

1127
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 3: say you care, you know, and you love, but if

1128
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 3: you're not actively challenging these ideas and willing to sit

1129
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 3: with that discomfort, then you'll have a problem. And people

1130
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 3: don't want to hear it, right, People really don't want

1131
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 3: to hear it. They don't want it to land on

1132
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 3: their doorstep. If they are thinking about things like police brutality,

1133
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: they want the name of the one cop that they

1134
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 3: can yell at and blame because if it's a system

1135
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 3: and they're, you know, paying taxes into that system, if

1136
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 3: they've been supporting that system, if they voted for the

1137
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 3: candidate who said they'll bring lawn or and safety to

1138
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 3: their area, knowing that that men it would increase cops

1139
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 3: in black and brown communities, right then there's a whole

1140
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 3: level of culpability. And if that thing that they've been

1141
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 3: pouring money and effort into would endanger their disabled child,

1142
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 3: they don't want to know. They don't want that. They

1143
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: don't want that reality, and so it's really important that

1144
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: we challenge it while also showing that people are building alternatives,

1145
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 3: and that idea that we could build something else is

1146
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 3: kept from a lot of people who've never had to.

1147
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 3: And so it's always wild to me when people say, well,

1148
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 3: what are you going to do? You know, what are

1149
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 3: you going to do? If someone read you, that's that's

1150
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 3: the thing people say a lot to me, right, especially

1151
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: as woman, people will weaponize that against me. And then like,

1152
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 3: first of all, I'm absolutely a survivor of sexual assault,

1153
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: as many women have been and please do anything right.

1154
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 3: And my healing, my sense of safety, came from the

1155
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 3: practices that, like my black and brown community had to

1156
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: build to try to address list because we always knew

1157
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 3: that we weren't going to find safety in the system

1158
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 3: and we weren't going to find repair in the system.

1159
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 3: And so you know, those kind of ideas, these things

1160
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: that are thrown out erases the fact that right now,

1161
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 3: the you know, a large segment of blackground and indigenous populations,

1162
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 3: queer and trans populations absolutely know that they could never

1163
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 3: find safety in our systems and they have to build elsewhere,

1164
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: and they have been, but that is completely erased. You know,

1165
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 3: the ways in which we solve conflict is erased, the

1166
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 3: ways in which we ensure safety is erased, The way

1167
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 3: in which we heal each other and ourselves has been erased.

1168
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 3: And it all comes down to you have to trust

1169
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 3: this person with a gun. Nothing else has been done,

1170
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 3: nothing else can work. And so media I think plays

1171
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: a huge part in that they're invested in that because

1172
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 3: one they personally don't want to investigate that, and I've

1173
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 3: talked with editors, you know, as a writer who don't

1174
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 3: personally want to investigate it. They want to keep it

1175
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 3: in a comfortable place for them, but also they have

1176
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 3: funders who are systemically, you know, invested in this, and

1177
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 3: there is a real backlash four people publicly taking a

1178
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 3: stand and saying we're going to address the real roots

1179
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: of this. People have been made to pay, and I

1180
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: do think that people are afraid of that and afraid

1181
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 3: of challenging those assumptions.

1182
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the most like one of

1183
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: sort of inspiring passages for me or just to just

1184
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: to kind of put everything into perspective, right, because we

1185
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 2: started off being like revolution just feel like this scary

1186
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: idea and like, even though I know, like we need

1187
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 2: to actually look out for everybody, true liberation is only

1188
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 2: when every single person is liberated, like even if they

1189
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: don't look like me or not part of my community.

1190
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 2: That there was I think it was Miriam Caaba who

1191
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 2: you were saying, like, what's really put this into perspective,

1192
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 2: was like, it's it's not about like these big things, right,

1193
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: It's like, and I might be butchering the quote, but

1194
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 2: it's just about taking out removing just the bricks of

1195
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: like these oppressive systems. It doesn't have to be a

1196
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 2: wrecking ball type moment, because if if everybody's taken a

1197
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: brick out one by one for them elves, shit will

1198
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: start crumbling. That's just there's just no way for something

1199
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 2: structurally to keep it structural integrity if we're always like

1200
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: just kind of picking away at it. And I think

1201
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 2: that's a really important message for I think, and I

1202
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: really encourage our listeners to really to check your book out,

1203
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 2: because we are in such a time right now where

1204
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 2: I feel like everyone feels like they're banging their heads

1205
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 2: against a wall and they're like, I'm seeing this happen

1206
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 2: right now, am I Like, but we're not doing the

1207
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 2: right things. And I think it really is an empowering

1208
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: message a to see these other stories of people who

1209
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: a lot of are starting from absolute powerlessness and then

1210
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: opening the door to something really really substantive and really

1211
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 2: monumental without necessarily that being the initial intention of it,

1212
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 2: of just it's more just about advocating for yourself. So

1213
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: I really thank you for putting all of these stories

1214
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: together and your words around it, because as someone who's

1215
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: done like worked from all over the political spectrum, from

1216
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: being a lobbyist to being like in the streets and

1217
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: things like that. I've always sort of grappled with these

1218
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: feelings of like where my power lies or how I

1219
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: can actually exercise that and what it means to be

1220
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 2: revolutionary or not. And I think it makes it a

1221
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 2: very accessible way, and I think is very powerful, I

1222
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 2: think for people to understand that it's just about these

1223
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: small actions, because they all like, we can't just think

1224
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: we can't. We have to get out of like the

1225
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 2: superhero mentality of them, like I'm going to figure it

1226
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: out by myself right now, rather than can I contribute

1227
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 2: to a community that's doing well, Can I from my

1228
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: space say, you know what, maybe we don't need funding

1229
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 2: that's contingent upon us interacting with the police to keep

1230
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 2: our nonprofit going, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I

1231
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: just again I feel like, thank you for putting this

1232
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 2: book out, and yeah, it's really great to just be

1233
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: able to speak with you today. It's just been really

1234
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: eye opening, and I'm sure our listeners have had the

1235
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: same experience too. Yeah. Truly a pleasure.

1236
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: All Right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist.

1237
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: Please like and review the show If you like the

1238
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: show means the world of Miles. He he needs your validation, folks.

1239
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend and I will

1240
01:05:10,240 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: talk to him Monday. Bye.