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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space, Being rich

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Speaker 1: or going.

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Speaker 2: To an IVY university will not make you ad better,

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Speaker 2: say not, Dan Say, and audiences have said this for

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Speaker 2: generations now in the United States, you will have to

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Speaker 2: have it and has to come from a different place.

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Speaker 2: You cann't heard it you can you can't pick it

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Speaker 2: up in the will.

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Speaker 3: Hey lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well, we do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just be.

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Speaker 1: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that file

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Speaker 1: up and leave us a quick five star review.

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Speaker 2: Lady.

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Speaker 1: We are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 4: It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

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Speaker 4: Are you currently a resident of the State of California

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Speaker 4: and contemplating starting your therapy journey. Well, if so, please

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Speaker 4: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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Speaker 4: That's d R D O M I n I q

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Speaker 4: U E b R O U ss ar D dot

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Speaker 4: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.

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Speaker 3: I look forward to hearing from.

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Speaker 2: You, lady.

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Speaker 1: We have a special guest on the show today, and

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Speaker 1: we're also diving into a topic that we've never explored.

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Speaker 1: Born in Haiti, Jenna Chris grew up in pre gentrified

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn and Astoria, Queens. Jenna has worked for governmental agencies

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Speaker 1: in Canada, France, and New York. Her literary work examines

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Speaker 1: how religion and law use narratives to compel behavior. She

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Speaker 1: delves into the Haitian imagination, where politics and religion remains

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Speaker 1: steadfastly intertwined. Her outright rejection of the twentieth century paradigm

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Speaker 1: of respectability politics is replaced by strategic inflammatory language to

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Speaker 1: provoke call and response sessions. Her novel Talk, a Haitian

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Speaker 1: zombie story, headbutts the inadequate mainstream perception of Haiti by

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Speaker 1: demystifying the voodoo space we are introduced to New characters

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Speaker 1: living in an increasingly globalized world where zombies and body fears,

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Speaker 1: disparities and superstitions. Jenna, welcome to cultivating her space.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. It's an honor, it's an obsolete privilege to John,

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Speaker 2: you know, to both of you to see you name

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Speaker 2: and just to learn into it and to know, you know,

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Speaker 2: experience this thing we qualize together.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we are looking forward to this conversation, and so

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Speaker 3: we will next move into our quote of the day, which, Jenna,

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Speaker 3: our quote will sound familiar to you because these are

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Speaker 3: your words, all right. Our quote of the day, theater

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Speaker 3: is the ground where the healing of this nation can

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Speaker 3: begin to take place. All right, I will say that

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Speaker 3: one more time for the folks in the back to

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Speaker 3: make sure they heard it. Theater is the ground where

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Speaker 3: the healing of this nation can begin to take place. So, Jenna,

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Speaker 3: when you hear your words reflected back to you, gives

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Speaker 3: us a little bit of context. What what Where's this

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Speaker 3: quote from? What comes up for you as you hear

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Speaker 3: it being spoken back to you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I said that years ago. I believe I said

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Speaker 2: that when I was on staff. I'm still a member,

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Speaker 2: but when I was on staff at the Generics Build

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Speaker 2: in America and it is the oldest organization representing play

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Speaker 2: rights and brettas and lyricists in American theater, American Stages

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Speaker 2: and national organization over one hundred years at old. And

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Speaker 2: what I learned then and what I'm still learning now is,

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Speaker 2: you know, the question that people have been asking over

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Speaker 2: and over again during the Trump regime is how do

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Speaker 2: we come back from this right? Because there's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of big jury, that's been a heartbreak, lot of tears,

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Speaker 2: physical violence as the loss of life. And it's the

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Speaker 2: question of how do we come back? And you know,

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Speaker 2: none of us created theaters when we're born. We found

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Speaker 2: theater here waiting for us. And you know, it goes

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Speaker 2: back to the ancient Roman, goes back to ancient priests

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Speaker 2: and a would augiating, goes back in ur love. But

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Speaker 2: I think it's part of our job to sort of

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Speaker 2: ring and look at what happened because of a lot

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Speaker 2: of dramatic work. What it does is it goes back

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Speaker 2: and looks at what happened. So we when we look

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Speaker 2: at Shakespeare, Shakespeare, you know a lot of his work,

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Speaker 2: Let's take me bath or or you know any there's

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Speaker 2: so many now he has so many pieces of work,

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Speaker 2: but what he's doing. What he did was revailing things

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Speaker 2: that had happened in the past so that they could

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Speaker 2: be looked at again by communities and generations and schools

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Speaker 2: and individuals or people who are just by themselves. Because

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Speaker 2: it's tremendous because I think, first and foremost the most

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Speaker 2: essential is talking about the individual is to understand that

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Speaker 2: we are not alone or when we experience heartbreak or

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Speaker 2: physical violence or loss, I'm talking about the name. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are great things that happen to us too, but

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Speaker 2: that's the hard ones that you that I think sit

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Speaker 2: with us so much. That's what we call it drama.

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Speaker 2: The latter is just as important, but go back and

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Speaker 2: understand that it didn't have to just we were the

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Speaker 2: only ones that these things happened to. You. We are

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Speaker 2: at the first generation or the first place or the

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Speaker 2: first comunity and in this case, the first country where

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Speaker 2: these things have occurred, and was to go back and

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Speaker 2: understand how can we prepare and how we can hear

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Speaker 2: In One of those ways is through envisit it and

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Speaker 2: to see or to try to understand that waste. How

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Speaker 2: had other communities other generations look at these issues or

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Speaker 2: treated these issues before him. So I think that's what

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Speaker 2: I take from that is just to look at theater

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Speaker 2: as one form and there are many forms that you know,

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Speaker 2: there is no one simple way, but it's in many

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Speaker 2: ways can.

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Speaker 1: Be a thro long affair that's so beautiful and so true,

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Speaker 1: and it's such a timely quote with where we are

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Speaker 1: in the world today, like a reminder to lean into

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Speaker 1: those creative aspects. It can be very healing. So we

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Speaker 1: appreciate hear your feedback on that. And before we jump

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Speaker 1: into the conversation, can you just share with us what

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Speaker 1: do you hope someone listening right now walks away with

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Speaker 1: by the end of this conversation, Like, I know, we're

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Speaker 1: going to kind of flow and kind of see where

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Speaker 1: we go. But when you think about like maybe the

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Speaker 1: takeaway or intention, what would that be for you?

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Speaker 2: I think the takeaway that I would always give is

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Speaker 2: to really read more, and not just my work general,

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Speaker 2: but in general, to visit you know, what did play rights?

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Speaker 2: What were they writing good two years ago? What were

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Speaker 2: they writing one hundred years ago? What were they writing?

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Speaker 2: What were play Rights in West Africa writing about fifty

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Speaker 2: years ago? What were playwrights in Paris writing about fifty

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Speaker 2: years ago. Because what I've seen when I read is

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Speaker 2: that so many things are you know, there's a cycle

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Speaker 2: and things come and go. And then for me, I

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Speaker 2: found peace and solace and the fact that okay, this

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Speaker 2: isn't me. So like when we read about droughts, or

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Speaker 2: we read about snowstorms, or we read about hurricanes. I

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Speaker 2: think one way that it is helpful when we're struck

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Speaker 2: with you know, hard and trick, you know, of tragedies

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Speaker 2: in my respects, to understand that it's not me, and

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Speaker 2: it's not the first time. And I think that in

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Speaker 2: and of itself, it takes for at least you have

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Speaker 2: the old street for myself, but it takes some of

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Speaker 2: the strain away that we say, okay, this is not

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Speaker 2: the first time this has occurred, you know, and all

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Speaker 2: these a hurricane I think a hurricane just coment in Haiti,

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Speaker 2: you know, the tragedy that's just the fruiting is just experienced,

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Speaker 2: most specifically Jamaica right now with the recent hurricane. But

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Speaker 2: this is not the first time. And you've seen here

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Speaker 2: in New York City, at least in the Caribbean commun

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Speaker 2: I'm in Queens right now, like lanes of stolen Queens,

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Speaker 2: but just going through a lot of the stories and

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Speaker 2: crimeating parts of Queens, you know, they already have drives

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Speaker 2: and they're collecting canned soups, can two nont of canned

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Speaker 2: beans and dried rice, all these things because it's happened before,

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Speaker 2: so that now that yes, it's hard and people have

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Speaker 2: lost lives and people have to rebuild, but the fact

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Speaker 2: that this is not the first time we've had to

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Speaker 2: respond to a hurricane, and people are prepared and we

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Speaker 2: have things and know how to sort of look at it.

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Speaker 2: So rest of all I would say is just to

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Speaker 2: you know, find time to read all of our computers,

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Speaker 2: specifically all of our computers off of our phone, and

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Speaker 2: to find things that truly are older than we are.

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Speaker 2: I think that's where what I would encourage everyone in

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Speaker 2: my book. I mean, I love my book, I obviously,

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Speaker 2: but my book is still within the contemporary realm. But

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Speaker 2: I would say something that's older than we actually are,

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Speaker 2: because that will force us and encourage us to see that, oh,

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Speaker 2: heartbreak or tragedy didn't just start with us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love that of like looking at taking a

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Speaker 3: look at our past, to understand. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: have friends who are historians, and one of the things

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Speaker 3: that they have emphasized is that nothing is new right

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Speaker 3: and that the ant like so there's no need to

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Speaker 3: necessarily despair because if we've survived things that have happened

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Speaker 3: in the past, we will survive what's happening now. That

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Speaker 3: this will not always be how things go, because things

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Speaker 3: happen in cycles and ways, and so I appreciate what

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Speaker 3: you're saying, like emphasizing to us the need to go

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Speaker 3: back and read things from the past.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I have friends who are historians who

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Speaker 3: talk about reading like historical narratives of things from the past,

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Speaker 3: But you're talking about reading works of fiction, reading play,

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Speaker 3: reading plays, and so talk to us, give us a

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Speaker 3: little bit more of that nuance of understanding how learning

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Speaker 3: about the arts in the past helps us understand where

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Speaker 3: we are now and how we can heal from in

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Speaker 3: the future.

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Speaker 2: There were well, I would argue that the best of

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Speaker 2: the arts comes from the people. And when I need

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Speaker 2: the people, I'm not talking about those in power. I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about those holding the world. I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: the people, the everyday people. I mean, it's this I

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Speaker 2: mean just here in New York City, in our subway,

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Speaker 2: literally every day when you're on the subway platform or

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Speaker 2: you're on the street corner, someone singing, singing, or dancing

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Speaker 2: or plant instruments as if they were trained at the

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Speaker 2: most prestigious places. It's not something that people can ignore

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Speaker 2: because again, these people from so many different places, so

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Speaker 2: many different income line in back brackets, so many different

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Speaker 2: age and ethnic groups. It's speaker than us, right, And

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Speaker 2: I think one way that the arts, specifically the buffooning marts,

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Speaker 2: it empowers us is that you know, you can be

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Speaker 2: born wealthy and your father can be a billionaire, but

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean a fee out sing or out dance or

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Speaker 2: outrite or outperform someone coming from the projects. Doesn't mean that.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's especially especially in American history, that

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Speaker 2: is a fat, That is a fat. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: so many examples. You know, we could be here all

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Speaker 2: day exciting so many people who genuinely grew up in

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Speaker 2: abject poverty, but their sheared talent just really forced this

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Speaker 2: country to reckon, you know, to recognize obviously that they

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Speaker 2: were the best, you know, coming from I mean today,

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Speaker 2: I think people down south have to recognize that country

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Speaker 2: music did start with black people in the United States.

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Speaker 2: It was an African American art form that became associated

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Speaker 2: with white people. But one hundred years ago country music

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Speaker 2: was being sung by black people. Then you go through

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Speaker 2: written and blues and gospel and jazz, and then rock

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Speaker 2: and roll and un country music, excuse me, disco music.

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Speaker 2: You know, all these forms, but these came from working

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Speaker 2: class people who were not allowed that's a fact. They

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Speaker 2: were not allowed in some of these extraordinarily well with places.

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Speaker 2: Others as a response, created ways to express their heartache,

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Speaker 2: to express their pain, and to find hope and solace

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Speaker 2: of their allmaking. So I think for me right now, specially,

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Speaker 2: its just you know, to encourage people who aren't feeling well.

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Speaker 2: It's always remember that, especially I mean and this. I

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Speaker 2: can say the same for Brazil. You can see the

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Speaker 2: name for Columbia, and you could say the same for

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Speaker 2: so many races. But I would honestly give it to

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Speaker 2: the United States, even more so because being rich or

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Speaker 2: going to an ivy Yaku university will not make you

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Speaker 2: a bet or say not dance and audiences have said

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Speaker 2: this for generations. Now in the United States, you will

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Speaker 2: have to have it and has to come from a

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Speaker 2: different place. You can't hurt it, you can't pick it

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Speaker 2: up in the will. That is some good stuff.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard a quote similar to that,

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Speaker 1: like the best comedians and the best talent haven't even

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Speaker 1: been discovered yet. They're probably out somewhere, like you said,

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Speaker 1: in New York, in a subway or in the hood,

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Speaker 1: somewhere out there, just you know, shining. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we want to hear your origin story, right, so we

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Speaker 1: want us to tell We want you to tell us

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Speaker 1: how you became who you are today. But can we

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Speaker 1: put a little spin on that, and can you also

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Speaker 1: share with us what you've had to unlearned to become

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Speaker 1: the woman and writer you are today.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think one thing most people when they think

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Speaker 2: of Haiti that they just never managed to recognize is that, yes,

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Speaker 2: there's extraordinary poverty in Haiti, but not everyone that Haiti

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Speaker 2: was poor or it is still to the state poor.

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Speaker 2: That there is the poverty of Hainion, but there's also

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Speaker 2: the privilege in Haiti. My parents, both of my parents

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Speaker 2: came from the privilege at Haiti, both sides. Even un

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Speaker 2: Giovanni regime, they have prospered, and I think just understanding

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Speaker 2: that not everyone has the same Haitian experience it helps

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Speaker 2: because you know, the American media specifically, the French media specifically,

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Speaker 2: they over betray hated a very very narrow light or

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Speaker 2: specific way. But it doesn't actually refract reality. So for

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Speaker 2: my origin story, you know what, it's really mostly like.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember read Janeawson's Persuasion. In it,

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Speaker 2: the lead character her father, can you know, you know

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Speaker 2: this is talking about the English aristocracy and the people

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Speaker 2: who hold that hierarchy. Her father was a snob white

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Speaker 2: and this is not about racist about white people dealing

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Speaker 2: with other white people in there in their part of

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Speaker 2: the you know, in their country, English countryside. But her

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Speaker 2: father is a snob, I'd promise. See every time I

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Speaker 2: see an adaptation of Jane Austen's Persuasion, I see my

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Speaker 2: father he was a snab. Whys some snow And another

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Speaker 2: thing that I love about Jane Nawson In every piece

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Speaker 2: of fiction that she created, there was a current theme

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Speaker 2: about gambling because the other part that people talk failed

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Speaker 2: to realize is that when people believe that there's believe

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Speaker 2: when people are spoiled snobbish, superficial that my father was.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was my father. So it's not to

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Speaker 2: attack my father, but it was real because he developed

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Speaker 2: a gambling problem. We'll give one recurrent thing in Jane

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Speaker 2: Awson's novels were about how the wealthy, how the privilege,

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Speaker 2: were spoiled to such an extent that they developed gambling

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Speaker 2: problems because it was this whole culture. And when I

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Speaker 2: read Jane Awson, and I've seen any of her adaptations

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Speaker 2: in terms of films or series or jummer, I see

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Speaker 2: my father and it's always this recurrent being in Jane

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Speaker 2: Awson that because that's what happened to her family, even

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Speaker 2: though she was born of a certain family, was of

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Speaker 2: a certain stature. I think historically phone not mistaken because

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Speaker 2: you know, back then women were not allowed to sort

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Speaker 2: of work, and because she had never gotten married. In theory,

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Speaker 2: I don't again historians argue about this blindlihood was I

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Speaker 2: know her brother, but her brother had developed a gambling addiction,

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Speaker 2: and essentially for all, right overall, even though she wasn't

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Speaker 2: born to poverty, she had died in a sort of

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Speaker 2: diminished stature. And I would say that is very similar

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Speaker 2: to what my family spirit said the fact that my

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Speaker 2: father was so snobbish, so spoiled, so superficial from being

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Speaker 2: honestly a playboy in Haiti like, you know, like when

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Speaker 2: you think of my father, just think of just extraordinarily handsome,

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Speaker 2: charming all the ladies want. I'm not joking here in

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Speaker 2: New York City, when I was a kid, like eleven

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Speaker 2: twelve years old, my mom would pick me up from places.

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Speaker 2: It's like, who's that. Who's like, that's my father? He

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, you know, like black woman, they love

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Speaker 2: light skinned men. Light and light really mean. My mother

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Speaker 2: was dark and so I'm somewhere captain the mad on caramel.

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Speaker 2: But my follow was frightened right, and he knew he

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Speaker 2: were handsome, you know. Muhammad Ali used to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty fall I used to say that, Oh I

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Speaker 2: got He's like, I don't know, my man, I'm pretty man.

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Speaker 2: He's a saying things like that. So I understand. But there,

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Speaker 2: I think that's something that most Americans lack the capacity

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Speaker 2: whishtand that Haiti has his own issues regarding snobbery and

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Speaker 2: superficiality and marginalization. Even though it was a whole you know,

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Speaker 2: some entirely Black country. Some of that does not just

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Speaker 2: come from white people. It comes from hierarchies that exist

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Speaker 2: with some of the black communities themselves in the United States.

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Speaker 2: You could take African American communities. You know, it's a

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Speaker 2: recurring theme that even if the white man is not involved,

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Speaker 2: black people have these issues outside of dealing with white

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Speaker 2: people that we have to address ourselves, how we bring

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Speaker 2: relationships forward. So to me, I would say my origin

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Speaker 2: story was it was very different. I think my family

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Speaker 2: coming here, you know, being in this is pre gentrified Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: I mean today Brooklyn is a sheet displaced. Well I'm

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Speaker 2: not feednal, you know. I don't think you can buy

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Speaker 2: something in Brooklyn now for less than a million dollars,

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Speaker 2: like a house. I don't think you can maybe have

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Speaker 2: like a stereo apartment or a one bedroom apartment somewhere

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Speaker 2: somehow maybe, but a full house, and only do you

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Speaker 2: get it for less than money balid or if you can,

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Speaker 2: it's somewhere really really far away. But I would say

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Speaker 2: for in my origin story is dealing with the legacy

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Speaker 2: of the corruption, the privilege of hating, which my both

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Speaker 2: of my parents came from. And then meaning what was

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Speaker 2: white flight here in Brooklyn at the time. If you

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Speaker 2: look at it's hilaireous when I see my eye with

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Speaker 2: those class photos used to take as kids in our classmates.

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Speaker 2: And I remember half my class was white, half my

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Speaker 2: class is black. But then my sister was six behind

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Speaker 2: me saying Public Heights seeing public elementary school, heard class

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Speaker 2: is completely black. So that whole idea of white fool

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Speaker 2: you know what happened. So for me six years, yeah,

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Speaker 2: six years, you know, and just completely different. I remember

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Speaker 2: my class being half white, half black, and you know

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Speaker 2: other kids mixed in too, but you could see that

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Speaker 2: it was a mixed class. But by the time our

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 2: sister same school, you know, a lot of the white

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00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: families had blood had abandoned Brooklyn. So it was very

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Speaker 2: different when I was there, and I just always had

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Speaker 2: to understand what was going on around. Whereas my father

355
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: had the privilege of growing up both my parents both

356
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Speaker 2: go and brew up and no very privilege, and he

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Speaker 2: I did not. I grew up very working class. The

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, especially here in New York City, especially United States.

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Speaker 2: You know, memberies of the Haitiku, we were targeted, you

360
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Speaker 2: know that horrible you know, all kids, this is a phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess doctor don can explain where

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00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 2: this comes from. But you know the whole thing, you

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00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: got Kui's, you got this, you got you know, kids

364
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: play this game. But literally, the US federal government said

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Speaker 2: that one of the causes of HIV more Haitian people

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Speaker 2: was us. So imagine going to school and the US

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Speaker 2: federal government, you know, the American right cross, they're saying

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Speaker 2: that Haitians pause, you know HIV. It was not a

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Speaker 2: good it was not a good experience to be in

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn when they were targeting in specifically and being not

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Speaker 2: Haitian people. And my case, hasting kids, classmates saying that

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Speaker 2: you're the call of h ID when we were not

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Speaker 2: at FOSS And I think for me that that's my

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Speaker 2: origin story that I could not you know how sometimes

375
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Speaker 2: some kids can just oh, I'll just spit in and

376
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Speaker 2: I'll just blend it or I won't know or won't

377
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Speaker 2: So when the evening news came on, it was like

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Speaker 2: Peter Jennings World Tonight. I paid extraordinary he calls attention

379
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Speaker 2: at you know, eleven years old, twelve years old because

380
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Speaker 2: I understood that what they were saying on the news

381
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 2: could affect me next week, you know, in a real way,

382
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Speaker 2: like nothing. Getting jumped in Brooklyn back in the day

383
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: was not fun. So it started there, if I had

384
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: to put it somewhere, it started with understanding that the

385
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 2: experience that the experiences that both of my parents had

386
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Speaker 2: had growing up Haiti privilege was not my experience growing

387
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: up being you know, Brooklyn before it was gentrified, during

388
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Speaker 2: the height of you know, HIV being understood or the

389
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: declarations made around it. So I had to pay attention.

390
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Speaker 2: So I think, for me, that's my worship. It's like

391
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Speaker 2: I'm going to there was a young person might be

392
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Speaker 2: a very very close attention.

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Speaker 3: Wow, thank you for sharing that. And you know, as

394
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 3: I'm listening, so there, like you said, a lot of

395
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Speaker 3: misconceptions about and a lot of misinformation really like a

396
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: lot of misinformation, a lot of negative propaganda put out

397
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Speaker 3: about Patians and Haitian Americans. And that was in the eighties,

398
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: right late eighties, early nineties, and here we are fast

399
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: forward to last year, twenty twenty four election season, and

400
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: there's misinformation being put out about the Haitian community, particularly

401
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 3: the Haitian community in Ohio. And so when you reflect

402
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: on your origin story and what was happening, the news

403
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 3: that was out, the misinformation that was out in twenty

404
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: twenty four. What comes up for you as you think

405
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Speaker 3: about what people really need to understand and know about

406
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Speaker 3: Haitian people.

407
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Speaker 2: Well, people overall, Well, there are different types of people, right,

408
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 2: I would start with black people. That's where I would start,

409
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Speaker 2: because I can't I can't understand or begin to imagine

410
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Speaker 2: what people in Iowa or North Dakota or Montana, Idaho. No,

411
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Speaker 2: I can't ask you what I don't understand that block process.

412
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: I don't. That's a sincere anngine. But I would say

413
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: with black people, to understand that we are all connected.

414
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 2: So if it's a black person in you know, Chicago,

415
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: if it's a black person in Alabama, it's a black

416
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: person saying in Georgia, is to really understand that there's

417
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: a divide and conquer approach that is uneded to separate us,

418
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: and that the sular that we understand that this divide

419
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: and conquered technique then it is the consistently used for

420
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 2: way too long, is only being used to weaken us.

421
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Speaker 2: And that if all of us, the a Haitians, African Americans,

422
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: people from Tunidai, people from Nigeria, people from Somalia, wherever

423
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: we're from. Because when I say it's the African alaspora,

424
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: it's the diaspora where everywhere. Unless we are on the

425
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: patinam are, we are part of the diaspora. Puerto Rico

426
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: or someone them don't want to claim that they're black,

427
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 2: but they are black, but wants the African diaspora too.

428
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: But you know, I would say, is to really find

429
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: an opportunity to understand that we are more connected, that

430
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: we have more in common then they want us to realize.

431
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: Because the second that we understand that we're so related

432
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: and that we're actually so close, you know, the power

433
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: and the structures that have been used for way too

434
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: long to keep us oppressed but vern lose their strength.

435
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: So that's where I would start, is I would want

436
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: us all know that we are more similar than we are.

437
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: Not the fact that all of us have to eat

438
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: our foud of well seasons, that's on us. The fact

439
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: that all of us, once you put a beat on,

440
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: we were on beat without trying, that's on us. The

441
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: fact that you know, we all know no matter what,

442
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: it doesn't if you're in Haiti or in Ghana or

443
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: you're in you know, you've got to keep your skin

444
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: well hydrated. That's on us. You know, these are things

445
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: that we share. It doesn't matter which country we're from,

446
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: but these are things that even the fact that we

447
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: all know how to braid our hair, all of us,

448
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: we all have we have different scouts, but we all

449
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: know how to braid and detangle out here. I mean,

450
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: these are things that connect us in very very beautiful ways.

451
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: And I would say that's what I would want us

452
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: to look at and to understand that Haiti, because of

453
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: the fact that we were able to gain Ourganda so early,

454
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: that so many parts of our original understanding of what

455
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: we call the universe or of God or of God's

456
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: plural they weren't stolen from us. You know, so many

457
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: times within other parts of enslaved lands and slaved Africans

458
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: were forced to give up their language, forced to give

459
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: up their religions, forced to change the way that they

460
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: were clothes, forced to change to not dance in a

461
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: certain ways. All of these things were legal, like there

462
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: are records. This is not even just okay, just your

463
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: this one, but no, these were institutionalized. But because Haiti

464
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: was able to gain. Some amended so quickly in comparison

465
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: to other and slaved Africans when you know this is gain.

466
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: I was in Paris and I was at a restaurant

467
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: with my friend and who brought two of her friends,

468
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: and they were both inm to Go and my Haitian

469
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: friend and I were speak saying something in Creole.

470
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: And then.

471
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: The gentleman in front of in front of us from

472
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: to gold because he spoke French. But he also I

473
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: forgot with their local languages and Jobuk. He understood every

474
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: simple wordly he said and he dissected it. He's like,

475
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: this word is from French, this is from Us, this

476
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: word is from French, this is from and I've stood there.

477
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that had never happened to me.

478
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: But it was literally some of the so many of

479
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 2: the words of means everything are literally the African words

480
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: that we arrived on that landway. And I think that's

481
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: what I would encourage all members of the African datas.

482
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: But always recognized and acknowledged is that making us fight

483
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 2: all the strengthens of people who are causing us. Well,

484
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: so that's where I just start as overall, you know

485
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: Americans who are committed. I don't know, truthfully, because if

486
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: someone and want of like if someone's commuted to hate,

487
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: I don't know how to answer to that. I wish

488
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: I could say. I wish I mean sort of like

489
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 2: how when I watched someone Bios doing gymnastics, I would

490
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: love to do that. But I know the truth is

491
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: I great everything else I'm doing, and go to the

492
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 2: gym every single day for the next ten years, I

493
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: will never be able to do what Simone Bias is

494
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 2: doing and the same respect. I would love to be

495
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: as magnanimous and as articulate as doctor Martin Luther Kame Junior.

496
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: When people are being so vile and sotful, I wish

497
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: I could have those things. But in real life when

498
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: people are racist that I tell them go stuck or dick.

499
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: That's real. I wish I could say I was magnanimous.

500
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 2: I wish that I would, you know, I would love

501
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: to do flips like someone Bios, or sing like Whitney Houston,

502
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: or or play tennis like Serena Williams. I would love that.

503
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: I would love to when people are racist and we

504
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: show you know here in New York City, the way

505
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: I grew up, I thought motherfucker is to go sucking.

506
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: That's real and that's an honest answer. So I wish

507
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: one day I'm forty six years old, No, we had

508
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 2: another forty fifty little maybe by the time, I mean

509
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: my nineties, my baby is I'll get to that place.

510
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: But today I'm not there yet, so I don't know.

511
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: That's what I understand.

512
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: I wish Mike my drop on that lariously sometimes would

513
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: need to hear that. They need to be those shocked

514
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: by the words that they're like, what does she.

515
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: Say, Yes, you hurt me?

516
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: That is hilarious. No, I mean, I'm not gonna lie

517
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: and say that. I'm all, well, you know, because I feel,

518
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: you know, the other part And here's what I would

519
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: also say. Yeah, one of the members of the African nass

520
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: were being connected. So I'm forty six, my mother's sixty's

521
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: she's only sixty eight, right, This is I mean coming up.

522
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: But here's the difference. Some things are not just based

523
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: onthing individuals. Some things are based on the generation. What

524
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: my mother's generation, and that cuts across being Haitian, African American, Jamaican, Nigerian,

525
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: what my mother's are my mother's generation allow in terms

526
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: of racism is very different than our generation. And then

527
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: if you go even further from what her mother's generation

528
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: will have allowed. And then again, now my daughter, she's

529
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: in grad school, she's a university student of grad school

530
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: at the University of Asia. And what my daughter, you know,

531
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: today's her twenty first birthday, Happy birthday, Loveday, He's twenty

532
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: one day. But what she allows is different than me

533
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: even because it's very different. So I think some things

534
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: are not just based on something visual, it's also based

535
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: on a generation. Each generation has different limits and different

536
00:30:54,280 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: definitions of all that. Yeah, you know my mother's generation, well,

537
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: as long as you're not shot, no one put hands

538
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: on you, and no one's touching you, and you can

539
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: still go to work. This is that's to them, and

540
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: that's the platinum level. But I think for my generation

541
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: it's different. Like you know, there are certain terms you

542
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: can't use, there are certain things we just do not accept.

543
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: And then again I think it's generational too, So it's

544
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: not just country because again, if you look at someone

545
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: who would be African American down in Atlanta, truthfully, that

546
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: person will probably have war and who's my mother's age

547
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: will probably agree with my mother on certain things than

548
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: I would because that's just based on age and generation.

549
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: They would see it different mind set based on their age,

550
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: So I don't say it's like that all of it.

551
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: You said so many There were so many powerful points

552
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: that you just that you just shared. And I think

553
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: the one that I'm really thinking about is just how

554
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: we're better together, you know, how we have so much

555
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: in common and we're better.

556
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: Together, like you said, they really do they?

557
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: What is that? Was it Willy Lynch? The Willy Lynch Letter?

558
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: Whether that's real or not, that's the I guess there's

559
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: a debate on that, but just colorism and separating black people,

560
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, creating this hierarchy within the black community. And

561
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: I want to ask you more questions, but we do

562
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: want to talk about your book, So can you tell

563
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: us you know what inspired you to write Talk a

564
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: Haitian zombie story. It's so incredible and you used so

565
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: many real life events in fiction and kind of drop

566
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: some game in like in a fictional way, but people

567
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: can definitely take things from it and use it for

568
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: their real life. What inspired you to write this book?

569
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 2: My husband, my husband's wife board this generation Italian American

570
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: from Queens. The first season of the TV show The

571
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: Walking Dead. My husband loved this show, so I was,

572
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: you know, you know when your husband watching something because

573
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: I never walked down things ever, but I'm watching him

574
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: because he loved the show. And then the whole time

575
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: when he would watch and I'm sitting there like, it's

576
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: not like this, He's like, what you having a hard

577
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: about because you know, like when you're watching, you're like,

578
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: he sees them upset. I was like, it's like pop

579
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: zammies are not like this. And he's like, JOHNA, zombies

580
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: aren't real. He's like, zombis aren't reel. I was like, ozamas,

581
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: I'm not like this. This is not zombies alike. And

582
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: then because within Haitian culture, the idea of a zombie,

583
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: the word zombie, the thought theme, everything about zombie within

584
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: Haitian culture. If you ask a Haitian person who grew

585
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: up in Haiti, fully, are zombies real, they gotta say yes.

586
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: And the explanation I give for that is, you know,

587
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: if you were to take and I'm gonna use New

588
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: York City as the example, you know, and it's unfortunate,

589
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: but this this is a term that's actually used. You

590
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: know someone's not looking like they're doing as well, and

591
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: they're not walking through the street by themselves, or they're

592
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: a subway by themselves and they just not doing well.

593
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: Again the first even they'll certainly not know the person,

594
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: they'll have no evidence, but a very New York City

595
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: thing is just to call someone a crackhead. And even

596
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 2: if they don't say it out loud, but it's what.

597
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: That's how the person will lay, even if the person

598
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: is as elegant as I can be, but in their

599
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: mind they're still being old with this person is a crackhead.

600
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: That is a very New York thing. What I would

601
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: argue is that if we took the people that New

602
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: York New Yorkers would label as a crackhead and fly

603
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: them and drop them walk into the middle of Haiti,

604
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 2: patient people are not going to call them a crackhead.

605
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 2: Haitian people are going to call these people zombies. And

606
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: that's why you could have people in Haiti all and again,

607
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: I've met Haitian of all educational backgrounds and all, oh yes,

608
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: yes meat. This is a very dry part of Haiti.

609
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 2: They use the term all the time. And I think

610
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: that's where this book comes from. Is that from a

611
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: Haitian point of view, zombies are presented differently. Zombies just

612
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 2: like again going back to the idea of a crackhead,

613
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: though we also know what an inherit in context that

614
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: even if someone is relying on drugs in such a

615
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: way that they aren't mentally there no one would go

616
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: up to someone who looks like they're under the influence

617
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: of some sort of cocaine substudents and try to touch them,

618
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: because you know that even if mentally something's wrong, that

619
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: physically they still retain their strength. And I would say

620
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: that is what makes a zombie, what it is in

621
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: for the Haitian imagination, is that taking us back to

622
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: over two hundred years ago, when Africans are still enslaved

623
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: on what was then called Saint Domain. What and this

624
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: is where my book looks was really asking and this

625
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: is the work of fiction. I just want to make

626
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: sure I say that this is absolutely work of fiction.

627
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: Why is that? Why is it that people who are

628
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: in Haiti look at people who New Yorkers with the

629
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: Paul Krakkas and call them zombies. What I say is

630
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: this back in the day, over tw hundred years ago.

631
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: Remember that was one of the recurring problems. How do

632
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: you get people who are enslaved to do this work

633
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: for free? Because some people were not complying. You know,

634
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: some people they separated them from their families. Some people

635
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: you know, suffered or experienced amputations. Some people were raped,

636
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: some people were beaten, some people were starved. So they

637
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: had so many different ways that they were trying to

638
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: sort of dominate and subjugate instead of Africans. What this

639
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: book is saying is that because remember, Haiti is a

640
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 2: tropical you know, Caribbean island and what grows. I mean,

641
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: we think of cocaine, we think of Columbia, we think

642
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: of you know, Peru, but technically the things and the

643
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: folds and the plants that can grow in Colombia can

644
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: grow in Haiti. So my book is looking at well,

645
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: maybe one of the ways that they controlled slaves was

646
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 2: through some form of cocaine something considering derived from the

647
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: coca leaves. And that's one of the ways, because that's

648
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 2: part of what you see when people who are heavily

649
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: on drugs the whole day, doing who knows how many

650
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: things so they can get the money just just so

651
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: they can use the cocaine. So they're not revolting, they're

652
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: not organizing, they're not advocating for their for themselves or

653
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: their families or their communities, because all that energy and

654
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: attention is on trying to get access to this cocaine,

655
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: Coca leat direct product or substance. And that's what I'm

656
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: with this looking at what happened because coke, even though

657
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: Haiti is not known as a narco state, but coca leaves,

658
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: candy glum Haiti. So it's just looking at perhaps maybe

659
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: over tw hundred years ago, this is what was used

660
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: so that when you saw so Haitian people in Haiti,

661
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: they will see someone that again New Yorkers would call

662
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: a crackhead. A Haitian person would say, well, the civilze

663
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: mile zone bee. And that's why it can be true

664
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: and not necessarily the fiction or superstition. Rather, let me

665
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: say that God the superstition.

666
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you for that explanation.

667
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 5: And as as I'm listening to you speak of your work,

668
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 5: speak of this book, I know that our listeners who

669
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 5: might not have heard of your book yet.

670
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: Are listening and they're like, wait, hold on, zombies in

671
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: Haiti are like New York crackheads and there's a fictional

672
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 3: book about this. Okay, well, can you give us a

673
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: little bit more about what are some of the things

674
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: that transpire in the book, so that folks are like, Okay,

675
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: this is something that I want to read about because

676
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 3: I need to understand more about how this played out.

677
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 3: Because you also mentioned that this is it's said in

678
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: modern times, right it is, And so tell us a

679
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 3: little bit more about what a zombie looks like in

680
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: Haiti in modern tays Well.

681
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: I would say the difference between again just going back

682
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: to walking den because walking down is contemporary, right, so

683
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: walking dead, the zombies are sort of what you see

684
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: the slow ones that are room like. It's like a

685
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: it's like a there's a slowness to them. There's a

686
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: there's a wandering to them, there's a there's a decrepit

687
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: sort of natures to them. I would say, in the

688
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 2: Haitian imagination, zombies are fully strong. Thank they physically could

689
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: beat you up. They're fast, you know, because again, this

690
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: goal goes back to the idea of slavery. They wanted

691
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: to steal labor for people did not want to participate.

692
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: So it's over two hundred years ago. The goal was

693
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: to have new plow feels upon fields and to this

694
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: arduous sort of backbreaking labor, you had to be strong.

695
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: I would say, that's the first thing. And then the

696
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: second thing I would say is just understanding that you know,

697
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: any and this is not just about zombies, but any

698
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: sort of anything that looks at horror because you know

699
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: it's you know, they don't give him miscredit, but Stephen King,

700
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, the writer, you know horror stories. You know,

701
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: when may she recipe peace? You know Tony Morrison, after

702
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: she passed, they did. They showed photos of her home

703
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 2: after she passed. You know what was on her nightstand?

704
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,479
Speaker 2: It was a book by Stephen King. You know, people

705
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: will always make people say things that are unkind to

706
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 2: Stephen King. They I don't think a lot of academics,

707
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: I mean the people do. That's okay again, going back

708
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: to the point when we were saying the talent and

709
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 2: where did it come from? And where did the urs

710
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: come from? You know a lot of extraordinary academics will

711
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: never acknowledge Stephen King. You know, Tony Morrison has won

712
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: the Nobel Prize, Tony Morrison has won the Fuel Surprise,

713
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: but a lot of academics will never even let you

714
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: mention Stephen King. If you turned in a paper sit,

715
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: you know, citing Stephen King, some academics will take points off,

716
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: you know, if you were even if you tatch something

717
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 2: there's something with a level, they'll give you a SAT

718
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: just based on seven King, you know. But I think

719
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: for me overall, this work is about looking at our

720
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: fears and just understanding where did these things come from,

721
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: especially when we are in black bodies that we understand,

722
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: especially now Joel, with Trump regime, you know, our bodies,

723
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: especially now with RFK serving as Secretary of Health, and

724
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: ow our entire understanding about medicine and food and water

725
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: and all these things are being offended so rapidly we

726
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: well unfortunately, but again just going back to Liz, there

727
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 2: are children today dying from measles when technically what ten

728
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: years ago, I don't.

729
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: What was it.

730
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I would have to look at the data.

731
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: Americans haven't died from measles for what It hasn't been

732
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 2: how many years, decades? But this year alone, how many

733
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: I think, I think the numbers, I don't want to

734
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: use the wrong number, but it's definitely surpassed. Two dozen

735
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: kids have died who does children died from measles when

736
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 2: I whereas measil will work curate? So for me, this

737
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: was about fear. Where do we go with, what are

738
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: we looking at, what are we accepting? Where do we

739
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: allow our stories and narratives to come from. Because when

740
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: you have that sort of fear effect, it's what moves

741
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: the people, it's what wolves the masses. So I think

742
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: that's where my book is coming from. It's just looking

743
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 2: at and really visiting our fears, because the idea of

744
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: a zombie is not new, but just looking at us

745
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: from that point of view, just to see, Okay, where

746
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: does this come from? Why isn't there and palking is

747
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 2: still because every year new Zombie will gave low zombie

748
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: teenv shows, low zombie video games come out. There something

749
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: there that people are still afraid of and I just

750
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: wanted to look at now.

751
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that. And one of

752
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: the things that you you kind of alluded to this earlier,

753
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: but you talked about how people in power manipulate entire populations,

754
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: and you were kind of talking about that within the book.

755
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: Where do you see that happening most clearly today?

756
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: You mean in real life? Oh my goodness, is that

757
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: any rare? They were so neat and tighty. I mean,

758
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: I don't think it's I don't think it's just about governments.

759
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: I wish I could say say, oh, it's this govern matter.

760
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 2: And I can't say it's like that because the thok

761
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: at local communities, right, And I'll take it out for

762
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: the time. I mean, I'll take out you know, governmental examples,

763
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: because that's it's the worst, right. But if you take

764
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 2: a month the communities, people will help each other. Even

765
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,959
Speaker 2: if they can. People won't think about things that don't

766
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: directly impact them, or people will make excuses when they

767
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: know that they could be more engaged. You know. The example,

768
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the biggest example this week was Sean Collins

769
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: the repining, Oh my goodness, no. The fact that our

770
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: fears are always there and that so many people experience

771
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 2: shorty amounts is suffering. But if someone had said something, right,

772
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: that's not it. That's what that's not. I mean, my

773
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: fears so often the people who cause us harm. Where

774
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: the fear comes from people we let in that we've

775
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: known forever. So I can't just say that it goes

776
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: from you know, the governments, or it comes from outside

777
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: sometimes it's it's some from people we actually know and

778
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: love and trust. And I think that's why looking at

779
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: the story of a zombie is what happens, right, because

780
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 2: this is again Michael over Roll is looking at what's

781
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: the difference. It's what we call word because no one

782
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: way to When most people talk about Haiti may have

783
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: example and the revolution on these that's usually where we're going, right, yeah,

784
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: is really where.

785
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 5: It is going.

786
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: And I think we will do. What I would say

787
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: is scientifically we have an understanding of our leagues and

788
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: our environment in a different way because going back three

789
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: hundred years, four hundred years in Europe, and they will

790
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: make called the pope carries the warm full doctors. They

791
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: weren't called farmers, so fall off the carries. Historically, there

792
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: isn't a line of how do you distinctions? Okay, this

793
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: is a spell, you know, boiling herbs, boiling this tea,

794
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 2: mixing this bark with this, and you know that whole

795
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: image of a cauldron boiling something, right, and then you

796
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: go from like this cauldron and surs gargamel, right, yes,

797
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: remember gargable the surs. You go from a caldron and

798
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: then you go to an apothecarrying and then you go

799
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: through pharmacy, and then you go through but it isn't

800
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 2: in today will we be hot in your Nobile Prize

801
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: winning metaphor re search. So I don't know where those

802
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: lines are specifically. What I would suggest or what I

803
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: would say on behalf of Haiti is that what too

804
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 2: often has been labeled as vodu is actually apothecare and

805
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 2: noeber Haiti right now does not have institutionalized universal health

806
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: care on that. So you have a lot of people

807
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: in on the Haitian realies who are literally living off

808
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: of the nature around them. So they'll go which bark

809
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: or which leaves or which part of the fish or

810
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: which you know, they'll understand the folds around them and

811
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: what they need to use when they're not feeling well.

812
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: And that's traditional sort of herbalist practice. You know, I'm

813
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: here in Queens there's a large Chinese you know American means.

814
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: They have herbalists all over. You know, they're going into

815
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: this bark or this weave or this flower this, and

816
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: it's celebrated when the Haitian people will say, well, boil this,

817
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 2: leave with this and to make this team to treat

818
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: this it's called voodoo. And I think Bat's on there.

819
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 3: Yes, I you know, the level of racism that gets

820
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: embedded in this, in our in white supremacy, that is

821
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: embedded in the messaging that we receive, and what we

822
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: are taught is, oh, this is the what's what's quote

823
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 3: unquote right versus there's something wrong with this particular method.

824
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 3: And as you reflect on your work, because this isn't

825
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 3: this isn't your only book, right, and I know that

826
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 3: was the focus of our conversation for today, but tell

827
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 3: us a little bit about some of your other works

828
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 3: and why those works are just as important and just

829
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 3: as informational, albeit works of fiction.

830
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: So I'm also a playwright, and I think what I

831
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: would just say is it's about writing. For me, at

832
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: least me, it's about writing about the people who are

833
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: being sunched. That's what I'm doing. That's who what it is.

834
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: Because too often, and you know Donald Trump being the

835
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: worst example, is that. Yeah, I see what it's. It's

836
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: so occurring that I find it upsetting, but not more intelligence,

837
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: not more power, I mean, not more insightful, but just

838
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 2: all this sort of hammer of power that they have

839
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: to they get the right to impose things that are

840
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: just sheer ignorance. I'm not even talking about the racism,

841
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: because that's something on the side. But just if I

842
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: had said what he's saying now at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen

843
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: years old at Longrange City High School where I graduated from,

844
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have graduated. That's a fact. If we had

845
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: said these things when we were if we have put

846
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: that on our essays, on our hearing, your own state,

847
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: on our raging, some example, you put that when we

848
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't have passed, we'd fell out of high school. So

849
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: for me, it's just understanding that my work is really

850
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: trying to give some countenance and just presence to people

851
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: who've been silenced for way too long. So the other

852
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: things I'm working on, I'm writing this is a trilogy,

853
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: so about Haitian's arms. The next one is wrong, she's

854
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: looking at you know again. Still Zomdni is the same

855
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: sort of characters, but just it's called wrong. That's the

856
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: second Istraman and her last strongma that's going to be

857
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: called Iron and then. But what I'm also doing, I

858
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: wrote a musical about Marietti Fracle Maril Franco very much

859
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 2: in the spirit of Jared's Jason Crockett speaking truth to power.

860
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: But she was from Brazil, Black, Brazilian, beautiful, educated, articulate,

861
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: fighting spirit. She was assassinated in Munch twenty eighteen in

862
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: Brazil because she was speaking trip to power. She was

863
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: elected official BAM. She was assassinated a very musicable about

864
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: her life using and translating. What I did was a

865
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: translata songs of Macchino la Villa in Brazilian culture. Hates

866
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 2: holds very much the same space that Stevie wonder holes

867
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: here United States, so much so that even old white

868
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: Brazilian people, and I tell them that that you mean

869
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: Machino Gamila. It's sort of like if you said to

870
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: an old white person in New York or anywhere in

871
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 2: La but you you've discussed this with Stevie Wonderful, because

872
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: it's it's it holds that way. Machina definitely holds that

873
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: sort of space in Personian culture and it stops. He

874
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: was like, oh my goods, but Machina, who are dicking

875
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: new commission to translate I saw of his songs into

876
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: English to service the music for this and again it's

877
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: again talking about the fact that they murdered her because

878
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: they didn't like the fact that she was telling the truth.

879
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: So I mean, what what better way to make those

880
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: of the power of resil up set influence here that

881
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 2: to a black woman in New York translating in this,

882
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: aren't people all about it? Because and it's not just me,

883
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: it's gone viral. There have been streets named after Mari

884
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: Frands in Germany. They come in Japan, so when things happen,

885
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 2: the daily papers and Tokio are covering body. Yet no

886
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: Mandy anything Uncle. They did not anticipate that their assassination

887
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: of her orders to but it did. I think that's

888
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: where my work is. It's really to support people who

889
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: are really trying to tell the truth and you know,

890
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: recognize what we go through on an everyday basis. That's

891
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 2: really why.

892
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: That is so amazing, Jenna, And I'm just looking at

893
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: our quote of the day that we share that we

894
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: share in your words, no theater being the ground we're healing,

895
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: the healing of a nation can take place, and you

896
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 1: are really just driving that home consistently. And we appreciate

897
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: you and the work that you're doing in the world,

898
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: and we would love for you to let our listeners

899
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: know where can they find your work? How can they support?

900
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: Do you have any next steps or ways to connect

901
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: with you?

902
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: I love it's online as everything right now, but it's

903
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: on Amazon. I'm gonna find my both on Alima and

904
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 2: I'm on social media. You can definitely hit me up

905
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 2: on social media the best way to do my emailsn't

906
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 2: know what side. You can also hit me up on LinkedIn.

907
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: Just the bests made your social law, but definitely right.

908
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: So we let me know what we can do and

909
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 2: you know, next time people in your dot we can

910
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 2: exactly we find time, which is just you know, whole circles,

911
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 2: or we think about things, or we meet in the meal.

912
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: And I think that's the other partner we just want

913
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: to mention. I think a lot of what's going on

914
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: right now is that people, and this I'll say for

915
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 2: all Americans. It's not just black people, especially white people.

916
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 2: I think what they're not realizing is that a lot

917
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: of the tech companies that are pushing them into circles

918
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: or mind circle, mind circles or patterns are encouraging to

919
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 2: become isolated, scheduling that so they can take things, you know, right,

920
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: they're trying to take money. They're trying to take time.

921
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 2: They won't take clicks and gearings and all those other things.

922
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: But I've also I've always found the people who are

923
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 2: actually physically have you know, who physically have the capacity

924
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: to be in for a sil like people. They're not

925
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: going to suffer from this. You're not going to join

926
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: the cults. I don't you know this sort of food

927
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: asmos of all the little groups that are trying to

928
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: isolate young white one. I mean, honestly, I promise you

929
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 2: reach out a black friend, but are off. I don't

930
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: mean because I think you know, when I think of

931
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: when we'll think about this whole model run why do

932
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: you come with an element? Technically and the girl workingeople.

933
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: He grew up isolated with trop our communities, but he

934
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: definitely managed to connect with black people and other people

935
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 2: outside of just his one community and it changed his

936
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: life and he's better. He's better starting just to live

937
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: a healthy life. And I would say that right now

938
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: it's encuraging people to create opportunities to meet in person

939
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: so well, people are in New York with digital coffins

940
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: are good and just encouraging people to always find a

941
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: way that we can meet in person because I think

942
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 2: the powers that the abound, they're counting not just that

943
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: they're doing me a quarterly corporate forecast of the fact

944
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: that people are becoming more and more isolating and everything

945
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: only and it doesn't have to move on money. We

946
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: could just meet in the park. You'll bring your own

947
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: cup of coffee and we all meet in the park.

948
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 2: Or bring you along something and we can go sit

949
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: in this public library, or bring around something. Let's walk

950
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 2: for us to do a twenty block walk this afternoon.

951
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 2: These are all things that can be free. They don't

952
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 2: have to be for money. And I think that's something

953
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: that right now because when you start in my origin

954
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 2: story and my other ordered part of my origin stories,

955
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: I was always libraries, public library bring I had known

956
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: any when I was fourteen fifteen. I didn't have a

957
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: dollar and have a friends when I was fourteen, and

958
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 2: I'm just always in public libraries and I felt like

959
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 2: that's where I met so many people and just learning

960
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: things in a sincere way, you know, because you can't

961
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: buy friends, and just when you're out there and doing

962
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 2: what you actually enjoy, we will connect with people. And

963
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 2: I don't think we need to sort of feel the

964
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 2: isolation that corporations tell us earth that's inevitable, because it's not.

965
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: That's what I would you say, meaning person and combect

966
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 2: as much as I can in person.

967
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: Because account that's a beautiful reminder for us all to

968
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: build community, connect with like minded people because it Yeah,

969
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: the message that's going out today is really promoting isolation

970
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: at time. So that's so beautiful. We appreciate you, Jenna,

971
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: and we hope you all check out the links in

972
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: this show notes and support her work.

973
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 2: Thank you.

974
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: If you want more speaking engagements, collaborations, or visibility for

975
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: your brand, I got to tell you the truth. This

976
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: is Terry low Max and I've been a public speaker

977
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,919
Speaker 1: for over twelve years. I've landed national media, a TED Talk,

978
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: and six figure collaborations without a publicist or a big

979
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: social media following. And here's what most people don't hear.

980
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: You don't need a publicist or a massive audience to

981
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: get booked. Most people are waiting to feel established first,

982
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: and that waiting is costing them visibility. How many times

983
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: have you looked up and seeing people with less experience

984
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: getting opportunities you were fully qualified for. Here's the truth.

985
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: Opportunities don't go to the most qualified. They go to

986
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: the people who can clearly communicate their value. Once I

987
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: learned how to organize my story and position my expertise

988
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 1: using a framework, everything changed. If you want my exact

989
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: pitch emails, word for word, my winning subject lines, and

990
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,919
Speaker 1: the Saucy Solutions framework, visit get that pitch dot com

991
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 1: for a limited time use code her Space for a

992
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: special listener discount. If this is your year to stop

993
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 1: hiding and start getting booked, I'll see you inside. Visit

994
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: get that pitch dot com or click the link in

995
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: our show notes.

996
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into cultivating her Space. Remember that while

997
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 3: this podcast is all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's

998
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 3: not a substitute for therapy. If you or someone you

999
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 3: know need support, check out resources like Therapy for Black

1000
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 3: Girls or Psychology Today. If you love today's episode, do

1001
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 3: us a favor and share it with a friend who

1002
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 3: needs some inspiration, or leave us a quick five star review.

1003
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: Your support means the world to us and helps keep

1004
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 3: this space thriving.

1005
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me. I release

1006
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: the old with gratitude and prepare for the new with intention.

1007
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: Keep Thriving Lady and tune in next Friday for more

1008
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: inspiration from cultivating her space. In the meantime, be sure

1009
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: to connect with us on Instagram at her Space Podcast