1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 2: Hey bam, if you're celebrating tonight, we are wishing you 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: a magical Christmas Eve. Okay, Today on the bright Side, 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: we're revisiting our interview with Grammy nominated singer songwriter Jewel. 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: She joined Danielle in studio earlier this year and just 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: captivated us with stories from her childhood in Alaska, how 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: she wrote one of her biggest hits while she was homeless, 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: and she shares why in the end, only kindness matters. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, December twenty fourth. 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: brighten your day. Simon Jewel burst onto the scene in 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: the nineties and she changed the game. She was really 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: an outlier. There was this cookie cutter box that people 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: had to fit in with musicianship and artists, and kind 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: of like Adele did about a decade ago, she changed 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: things for people. 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: I think the common thread between Jewel and Adele is heartbreak, pain, 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: life experience, like they both brought that grown woman vibe. 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I remember when, yes, the grit, when Jewel 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: broke out. I mean she brought this emotionality and texture 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: to her voice that felt just more mature in a 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: lot of ways than the bubblegum pop of that day. 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: I mean, songs like you were meant for me? Who 26 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: Will Save Your Soul? Standing Still? Even the yodling like 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: she brought a whole new technique to the game. 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: Yes, and she had been yodling in bars since she 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: was eight years old, but she became a household name 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: with her twelve time platinum album Pieces of You. I 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: remember listening to that in my mom's car as a 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: little girl. I was aware that Jewel grew up in 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Alaska on a homestead, but the heartbreak of her childhood 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: was something I didn't know. 35 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: The depths of Yeah, I mean, she experienced the unimaginable 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: parental abuse, homelessness, poverty. She left her home at the 37 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: age of fifteen and eventually got a scholarship to Interlock 38 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: and Center for the Arts. It's this prestigious boarding school 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: in Michigan for artists in high. 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: School, That's exactly it. And she couldn't afford to go 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: home during breaks, so she hitchhiked around the country and 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: to Mexico, and it was around that time that she 43 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: wrote her first hit, who Will Save Your Soul? 44 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: Her resilience, to me is just mind blowing, and I 45 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: think that a lot of people probably aren't aware of 46 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: how committed she's been to providing mental health resources for others, 47 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: which I mean, she's done that for nearly two decades 48 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: through her Children's Foundation. 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: She was part of the mental health conversation even before 50 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: it was a conversation. So while you were away on 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: your retreat, I had the opportunity to sit down with 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: Jule Simona. I'm excited to share this conversation with you. 53 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: I cannot wait to listen along with all of our 54 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: B Side besties. After the break, Danielle's interview with the 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: One and Only Jewel. 56 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: We're back and we're here with Grammy nominated Singer songwriter 57 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: Jewel Jewel. 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side. Hi, thanks for having me, Jewel. 59 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: My mom had a cherry red jeep Grand Cherokee when 60 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: I was growing up, and pieces of You would play 61 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: on repeat in the car. I knew every single one 62 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: of your songs before I even knew what the words meant. 63 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: I could really feel you, I could feel your music 64 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: even at such a young age. And I think many 65 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: people could say the same thing. What was the soundtrack 66 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: of your youth? 67 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: The wind and the leaves, the sound of seals in 68 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: the bay? Music. My dad was a songwriter. My whole 69 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: family sang, so there was definitely a lot of music around. 70 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: Didn't have a television, and so it was quiet. It 71 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: was quiet compared to other people's lives, but in that 72 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 3: quiet was a symphony of life that made me feel 73 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: incredibly comforted. When I was. 74 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: Young, I was blown away when I learned about everything 75 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: that you had to overcome to become one of the 76 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: most successful artists of your generation, from living in your 77 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: car to selling millions of records. Your path was paved 78 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: with one challenge after another, and one way you found 79 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: your way through it all was music. But how else 80 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: were you able to find stability? 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: I moved out at fifteen, and I knew before I 82 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 3: decided to do it, I was contemplating if I should 83 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: do it, and I knew it was quite dangerous to 84 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: move out. Statistically that doesn't work out well, and I 85 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: wanted to be very clear eyed about the type of 86 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: danger that I was stepping into, and was that risk 87 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: worth leaving a home that I didn't really enjoy living in, 88 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: and I felt like the men I had to have 89 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: a plan. I'd been reading a lot of philosophy at 90 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: the time, and maybe that's what made me sort of 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: very logical, maybe or tactical about it. And so I 92 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: realized what I had to do was learn a new 93 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: vocabulary and an emotional way of relating to the world. 94 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 3: It got me so curious, like how do you learn 95 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 3: a new emotional language? It felt ambitious and it felt 96 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: kind of exciting, and it also felt clear like I 97 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 3: had a clear mission now, and that meant I had 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: to study and be observant and be curious. And I 99 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: started by watching other people's interactions and I looked at 100 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: those as if that was grammar. The way that parent 101 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: how to that child, the way that person didn't get 102 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: angry at that person. Those were all lexicons, pieces to 103 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 3: put together in a way of speaking, if you will. 104 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: And so I set off sort of at that time 105 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: in my life with that being my mission was happiness 106 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: a learnable skill? Was it a teachable skill? Could I 107 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: get to know my nature if my nurture was really bad? 108 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: You were taking about spiritual emptiness in nineteen ninety five, 109 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: way before this was part of the zeitgeist. 110 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: How did music and writing save you? My dad grew 111 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 3: up in a really abusive household, and he wrote a 112 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 3: beautiful book called Sun of a Midnight Land, and one 113 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: of the things he said in it is I was 114 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: given the sickness, but I was also given the cure. 115 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: And I think that's true for a lot of us. 116 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 3: All of our lives, all of our hearts are destined 117 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 3: to be broken. It doesn't matter for poor or rich, 118 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: we're famous or we're homeless. All of our hearts are 119 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 3: destined to be broken at some point. It's what we 120 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 3: do with the pieces that make us extraordinary. And so 121 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 3: it's each of our jobs to learn to become alchemists, 122 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: to turn the poison into medicine. And we all have 123 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: some kind of resource available to us. And so for me, 124 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 3: writing really was that I had been writing a long 125 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 3: time before I started writing songs. I've been singing my 126 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: whole life. And so when I couldn't afford to go 127 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 3: back home during the winter breaks at this boarding school, 128 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: I was at my idea of lemonade was hitchhiking across 129 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: the country. I couldn't learn other people's songs because I 130 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: didn't know enough chords, and it was just a lot 131 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: easier to improvise and make up lyrics. And it was 132 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: my first time seeing pop culture in America, and reality 133 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 3: TV wasn't a thing yet. And I do find that 134 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: really interesting that my very first line was people living 135 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: their lives for you on TV. They say they're better 136 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: than you, and you agree. I was raised without a television, 137 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: and suddenly I was in America, where there was worship, 138 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: There was a hero worship, there was worship of people 139 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: on television. And I know America was found out on 140 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: getting away from a royal system, from kings and queens, 141 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: but celebrities in America became the new kings and queens, 142 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 3: and I could see the writing on the wall. I 143 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: could see it happening already. And this in myself, lack 144 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: of accountability, of nobody's coming for me, Am I coming 145 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: for me? Am I really showing up for myself? Am 146 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: I copping out? I wanted to learn how to be 147 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: more accountable and it took me longer than that moment. 148 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: What do you mean copping out? I was shoplifting a lot, 149 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: and granted it did help me survive. There were definitely 150 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 3: things about it that helped, food and things like that, 151 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: but a lot of the shoplifting was just to medicate 152 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: my anxiety. It's also a really entitled thing to do, 153 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 3: to steal, but I had a chip on my shoulder. 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: I felt like the world owed me. I felt like 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: I was cheated I and not that those things aren't true. 156 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: What I started to realize and realize with more time 157 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: is that a lot of us have many good reasons 158 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 3: not to be happy. But will you let those be excuses? 159 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: That's where the rubber meets the road. That's where no 160 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 3: matter how bad your life is, no matter how betrayed 161 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: and her you've been, it's still up to you to 162 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: learn how to be happy because nobody cares but you. 163 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: You have the most investment in it, And me sitting 164 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: around and saying poor me doesn't help it. All it 165 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: does is hurt me. What am I willing to do 166 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: about it? And so writing whole Savior Soul was about 167 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: watching where I thought maybe culture was heading disconnection, asking 168 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 3: and expecting other people to help us when we are 169 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 3: absolutely unwilling to be fully accountable to our own. If 170 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: you want to say salvation it's a strong word, but 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: in a way that. 172 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: Self reliance is just such a huge through line in 173 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: your story. You got a million dollar record deal and 174 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: you turned it down and you were still living in 175 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: your car. 176 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: Why did you turn it down? I ended up poneless 177 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: because I wouldn't have sex with a boss. He wouldn't 178 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: give me my paycheck, so I couldn't pay my rent, 179 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 3: so got kicked out, started living in my car. I 180 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: was having really bad panic attacks. I was getting agoraphobic, 181 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 3: which is a fear of leaving your home, so I 182 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: didn't want to leave my car or somebody wouldn't get 183 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: it out to go eat. I had a panic attacks 184 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 3: up i left my car or the street corner that 185 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: I was on. My shoplifting hit a whole new level, 186 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 3: and I realized I would end up in jail or 187 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 3: dead if I didn't turn my life around. But when 188 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: I ultimately got discovered, it was accidental. I wasn't trying 189 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 3: to get discovered. I just I wanted to stop feeling alone. 190 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: The only place I told truth was in this journal. 191 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: I never read that journal to anybody. Nobody knew the 192 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: real me. I never was allowing myself to be vulnerable 193 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: enough to let myself be seen for how much pain 194 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: I was in or how bad some of my coping 195 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 3: skills were. And so I decided to write songs very 196 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 3: honestly and to sing them in these coffee shops. My 197 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: first show was for two surfers. I think it was 198 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: a five hour show, because that's what we did growing 199 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: up in bars. You do five hour shows. So I 200 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: wrote five hours worth of material and these two surfer 201 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 3: guys just cried during the show. I cried during the show, 202 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: and I was rewarded for being deeply, deeply authentic. And 203 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: that felt like it'll bring tears to my eyes, Like 204 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 3: what a gift that was in my life. That changed 205 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: my life. Then and that audience grew and I got discovered. 206 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: But yes, my first album, I realized also for some 207 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: other reason, like I'll get to the million dollars. Nobody 208 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: gives you anything for free. That is true. I grew 209 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 3: up on a ranch, I grew up with horse trading. 210 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 3: I grew up with very smart people trading and bartering. 211 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 3: Nobody gives you something for free. There's always a price. 212 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 3: So nobody was giving me a million dollars Like I 213 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: did know enough to know that, so it's the catch. 214 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: Nobody's telling me what the catches. And so I did 215 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: go to the public library and asked for a book 216 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 3: on the music business. It's a really famous book. It's 217 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: still being published today and updated, but it was basically 218 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: called Everything You Need to Know about the Music Business. 219 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 3: And so I learned about contracts. I learned about back 220 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: ends and royalties. I learned that the advance was alone, 221 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: and I learned that I'd pay it back through record sales. 222 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: And I learned that the money I make per record 223 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: sale is actually incredibly small pennies, if not fractions of 224 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 3: pennies per record. So I also learned it would take 225 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: maybe another couple of million dollars for my label to 226 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 3: invest in me to see if I would ever be successful. 227 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: So let's call that a three million dollar investment in me. 228 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: And how many records would I have to sell to 229 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: earn that back for the label? It was going to 230 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 3: be millions and millions of albums. And because I liked 231 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: my authenticity, I knew I was going to make a 232 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 3: full album at the height of grunge. I knew the 233 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: odds of that being successful were incredibly low. I also 234 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 3: knew that the hype and the bidding war over me 235 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 3: was a tiny bit to do with me, But it's 236 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 3: mostly to do with the other labels competing with the 237 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: other labels, and I should never confuse that with my 238 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: worth or my value. You knew that at such a 239 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 3: young age. Well, it was everybody pulling me. If I 240 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 3: may be a bit crude, it was like a bunch 241 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: of labels pulling their dicks out seeing who's the biggest 242 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: and who was going to win. Like that was very obvious. 243 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 3: That wasn't like a difficult thing to like be like 244 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 3: like what's happening here? No, it was really obvious what 245 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: was happening? 246 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: Do you know? 247 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: I'm trying to put myself in your situation, and I'm thinking, like, 248 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: you never had anybody look at you and say you're special, 249 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: Like you didn't have that growing up, and that's what 250 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: parents are usually for. And then you have all of 251 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: these people all of a sudden saying you're special, in 252 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: fighting over you, and you still choose your authenticity. You 253 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: just had this deep knowing. It was an odd dichotomy. 254 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't secure. I was so flawed. I was so 255 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: desperate for love and attention. I just for some reason, 256 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: knew fame would never be what healed that for me. 257 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: And when I looked at fame and I looked at 258 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: what fame seemed to do to people. I don't think 259 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: fame changes you. I think it exaggerates you. And if 260 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: you need power to feel good about yourself, you're gonna 261 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: need more of it. You need applause to feel worthy, 262 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: You're going to need more of it. 263 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 3: It'll never be enough. It is an addiction. And again, 264 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: I just knew that that was a very dangerous proposition 265 00:13:59,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: for me. 266 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: But that decision kind of saved your career. Yeah, because 267 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: I didn't know this. Your first album went to radio, 268 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: it debuted, and it did not do well. 269 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 3: It ended up being a massive hit. You know, for 270 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: a person who didn't care about fame, you got pretty 271 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: darn famous. Yeah. What was the hardest part of fame 272 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: for you? I found it very traumatizing. You know, people 273 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 3: don't like to hear hear that. You know, famous people 274 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 3: aren't easy to have sympathy for, And I get why, 275 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: but you're easy to have sympathy for. That famous traumatizing 276 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: And I don't care if you've had a great childhood. 277 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: Becoming that famous often at young ages is a level 278 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: of scrutiny and attention that it's hard to describe, but 279 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: you know how you can walk down the street and 280 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: check out and you're just in your mind and your imagination, 281 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 3: or you can eat dinner and you're just just with 282 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: the person that you're eating. When you suddenly realize like 283 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: every single moment is being scrutinized, and you're being watched, 284 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: and you're being followed, and that people change how they 285 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: act around you, and you don't get to see people 286 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: be their unaltered selves, their aversion of themselves that's through 287 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: the lens of how they perceive you. It's like living 288 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 3: in a circus full of funhouse mirrors. I also noticed 289 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: great fame and great power is like when planets have 290 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 3: a dense mass, right, it's been space and time around it. 291 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: Mass fame and mass power warps warps things around you. 292 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: It warps perceptions, and for me, especially with my traumatic background, 293 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 3: being touched people grabbing me, if I didn't act nice enough, 294 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 3: they'd say, if you, you're not that great anyway, And 295 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: it felt just as lonely to be worshiped by strangers 296 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: that didn't know me as it did by having people 297 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: hate me that didn't know me. They feel the same. 298 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 3: It's isolating and very lonely because it's so impersonal, and 299 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: so you feel trapped and buried beneath perceptions you're the 300 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 3: great and terrible Oz. And so the only way I 301 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: knew how to handle that was a move the curtain 302 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: back and make sure I was always leading with like, hey, 303 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: I'm just a little guy behind a curtain, deeply flawed, 304 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: and leading with those flaws. But the other way I 305 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: learned to deal with it was that I didn't have 306 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: to do it. I didn't have to be that famous. 307 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: I could step off like it got much bigger than 308 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 3: I thought, incredibly grateful, But after the second album, I realized, 309 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: this actually just doesn't make me happy, and I'm either 310 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: going to be honest about it or I'm going to 311 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: have to go live a life of a lie. And 312 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: so I quit for two years. You know, I didn't. 313 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: I couldn't handle it psychologically. What had happened, How famous 314 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: I got that you needed bodyguards everywhere. I had death 315 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: threats every day. I had people saying they'd shoot me 316 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 3: in the head during You were Meant for me? During 317 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: a show somewhere on tour, I had stalkers unlike anything 318 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: the FBI had ever seen. It wasn't fun. I wasn't 319 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: having fun, and so I gave myself permission to quit. 320 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 3: I quit for two years, and I just explored, like 321 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 3: what I like to be a photographer? Would I like 322 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 3: to be a novelist? Would I like to be a chef? 323 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: Like? 324 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 3: What else do I like to do? I realized at 325 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 3: the end of two years, I actually really loved music. 326 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: I wanted to do it. I actually just didn't like 327 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 3: being that famous. And in two years my fame came 328 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 3: down so much that I could go grocery shopping. Really, 329 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was so fast. So you unlinked 330 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 3: the two, but I just done linked them. Yeah, And 331 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: seeing that was very powerful, Like how quickly once you're 332 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: out of the public eye, how quickly you fade away? 333 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 3: And so for me that actually felt really hopeful, And 334 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 3: so I got in touch in those two years with 335 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 3: the things that really drove me. You know, I knew 336 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 3: I wanted to be an artist more than one to 337 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 3: be famous. I always know I wanted to have a 338 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 3: career more than I wanted to have a moment. I 339 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 3: wanted to be a songwriter, and I liked learning, I 340 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 3: like experimenting, I like growing, I like doing things I've 341 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 3: never done before. And so I realized, like, because of 342 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: the way I'd structured my deal, I never had to 343 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 3: have another hit, I never had to have the pressure 344 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 3: of like I didn't care about the success. I didn't 345 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 3: care about that type of success. At least, I didn't 346 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 3: care that everybody knew my name, and so that bought 347 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 3: me a lot of freedom, And so I created a 348 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 3: career path for myself that's really unconventional. But I would 349 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: kill my momentum between every album. I would kill my fame. 350 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: Between every album. I would switch genres, which is sacrilege 351 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 3: and everybody hated. But it kept me so alive and 352 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 3: so engaged and so curious because I had a new 353 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: puzzle to figure out every time. Like your label must 354 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 3: have been so mad at you. Oh my god. I 355 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 3: was always just that kid. Do we really great? Here 356 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: we go? What's she going to do? This time? 357 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break from our conversation, 358 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more from singer songwriter Jewel, 359 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: And we're back with Jewel. You've said that your biggest 360 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: accomplishment is your well being and It's sort of a 361 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: funny thing to say about a person who's sold thirty 362 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: million albums globally. But you said from the start that 363 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: your one true goal in life is to be happy. 364 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: I think some people chase freedom, some people chase fulfillment. 365 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: You are clearly chasing happiness. Why happiness? 366 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 3: I've always had this thing I call my deathbed decision, 367 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: where I pretend I'm on my deathbed and i look 368 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: at this moment in my life, and I'll ask, does 369 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 3: this moment matter? Is this the moment that when I'm 370 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: on my deathbed I'll remember, and getting to live and 371 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: have a career doing something you're built to do deeply satisfying. 372 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 3: I definitely know my deathbed that that would be a 373 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 3: very satisfying feeling. What I care if I had another 374 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 3: thirty million albums sold. I just wouldn't care on my deathbed. 375 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: What I care if my family loved me, I would 376 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 3: care about that. And so I just started to navigate 377 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: my life. And I remember writing in my journal very 378 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: young that I wanted my life to be my best 379 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 3: work of art. I'm ambitious. I am an ambitious person. 380 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 3: It's just that my ambition was to create a different shape. 381 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 3: It wasn't just to create a song. I want my 382 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 3: life to be artful, and that means my creativity and 383 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 3: whatever I have for intelligence, whatever I have for my 384 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: emotionality has to apply itself artfully to my life. And 385 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 3: that meant I had to give myself time to say, 386 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: what else do I want to grow in my life? 387 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 3: What is the shape of my life? If my life 388 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 3: was a mandala at the end of it, was it 389 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 3: a beautiful shape? Was it thirsty? Did I ever have enough? 390 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 3: Was it ever enough? And then life just kept also 391 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: dealing me blows where I just had to kept also 392 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 3: healing and putting my healing as a priority. But if 393 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 3: my life was a painting or a sculpture, my mothering 394 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 3: factors into that, my relationship to my health and my 395 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 3: healing factors into that. I've tried to do that artfully, 396 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 3: and I'm only the judge of it. Only I know 397 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: what I think is artful, you know, just like the 398 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: only same with me writing a song. Only I know 399 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: and I think that's a neat song. It doesn't mean 400 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 3: everybody else will agree, but it meant I had a 401 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: commitment to myself that way. 402 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: You've described your new exhibit the Portal as an immersive 403 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: experience that explores the intersection of so many of your passions, music, 404 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: mental health, technology and art. For someone who can't attend 405 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: in person, what does this look like? 406 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, this was such a dream come true project for me. 407 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 3: But to walk people through the experience, you come into 408 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: the museum and you're met by a hologram of me, 409 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: and it's a two minute spoken word poem that encourages 410 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: us to listen. It talks about a first personal philosophy 411 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: of mine. I call it the three spheres. It's the 412 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 3: idea that each of us travel through three realms of 413 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: reality every single day, often without realizing it. There's our 414 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 3: inner life, which is our thought and feelings. There's our 415 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: scene physical life, which is our jobs and our families 416 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: and finances and just the physical world. And then there's 417 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 3: the unseen. Whatever that means to you, It might be 418 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 3: a really clearly defined spiritual path. It might just be 419 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: that you get chills when you see a James Webb 420 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 3: telescope image, and when you read physics you just feel 421 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 3: so inspired and in awe. So it's whatever gives you 422 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 3: a sense of awe and inspiration. The idea for me 423 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: is that mental health is a side effect of these 424 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 3: three spheres working in harmony. Mental anguish is a side 425 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: effect of them being in conflict. And so the entire 426 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: experience is designed to help people define and understand what 427 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 3: these three realms mean to them. The hologram, they walk 428 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: through the contemporary wing of the museum, where I curated 429 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: ten pieces of their art. There's a video of me 430 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: next to these pieces that says, what does your inner 431 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: life feel like? And people are given a journal and 432 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 3: they write the answers down to these prompts, and they're 433 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: each relevant to the three spheres. Three about your inner realm, 434 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: three about what you think about your physical realm, and 435 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: three about the unseen. The last piece combines all of them, 436 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: and I ask people to identify one thing that causes 437 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 3: their three realms to be in conflict and one thing 438 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: that helps their three realms come in harmony. And then 439 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: they fill in the blank of a very magical sentence. 440 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: I think the sentence is like a magical formula. It 441 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 3: has changed my life. The sentence is I sacrifice my 442 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 3: attachment to X, and I dedicate it to why. Every 443 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: morning I work with a sentence, I fill in the 444 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: blanks for myself. I'll share mine. I sacrifice my attachment 445 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 3: to perfectionism, and I dedicate it to actively noticing what's 446 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: going right. I say that sentence every morning my meditation 447 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 3: fifty times a day. Perfectionism just has my number. It's 448 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: just really hard for me to get out of it, 449 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 3: and it ruins my day because nothing's perfect, by the way, 450 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 3: So it just means I'm pretty much annoyed all day. 451 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: It's not a fun way to navigate. Oh it's the worst. 452 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: And so I'm able to redirect in every moment. And 453 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 3: this is a behavioral health tool because our brains are 454 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 3: pattern matchers, and once you tell your brain to be aware, 455 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 3: to be on the lookout for perfectionism, and to replace 456 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: it with another tool, your brain will do its job. 457 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: It will tell you the fifty billion times a day 458 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 3: you engage, and it's this mindfulness practice that then begins 459 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: to help you build a new pattern in a new 460 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: way of being. So that's the last part of the 461 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 3: art walk. It takes about an hour up to this point, 462 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 3: and then people walk outside and they see a drone 463 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: show with an original piece of music that I created 464 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 3: that puts all of these fears together. It goes from 465 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 3: spoken word into soundscaping into song and to spoken word. 466 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: It's like me meets Pink Floyd. Is the best way 467 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 3: I can describe music because it's unlike anything else I've 468 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: ever done. But it's the favorite piece of music I've 469 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 3: made in my whole career. I hope you tour this. 470 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: This sounds so spectacular. 471 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: In April of this year, you took the stage with 472 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo at Madison Square Garden and I loved your 473 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: TikTok explaining why you wanted to go do it and 474 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: meet her and meet her parents. You loved that she 475 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: was a writer, not just a singer, and that she 476 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: was a good person. Amiss the monster of fame? Can 477 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: you see your influence in artists today? And I'm going 478 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: to lead the question because I see so much jewel 479 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: in Taylor Swift? 480 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 3: Do you see it? Oh gosh, there's a really neat 481 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 3: demo of Taylor writing a song that is you were 482 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 3: meant for me. It's the melody. It's like when we 483 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 3: learn to write songs, that's how we learn. We learn 484 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 3: by trying to figure out how somebody else wrote that song. 485 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 3: And so it was her own lyrics, but it was 486 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: definitely you were meant for me, and clearly she couldn't 487 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 3: release it, but it was obviously so flattering to see 488 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 3: that she was learning how to put her songs together 489 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: by listening to that song and her mother mam at 490 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 3: her really early in her career. And you know, I 491 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 3: was told what an influence I was on her, which is, 492 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 3: you know, that's our job. You know, Ricky Lee Jones 493 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 3: influenced me, Joni Mitchell influenced me, Josephine Baker influenced me. 494 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,719 Speaker 3: We need these influences. We need people that inspire us 495 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: to do what we do, and we should be proud 496 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 3: of those influences. 497 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: You said, I want to be one of the best 498 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: singer songwriters of my time, hold my own with my heroes. 499 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: That's a sixty year goal. When you're thinking in that 500 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: sixty year cycle, which I think is so rare, what's 501 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: the mark you're wanting to make? 502 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: Now? How do I describe it? You're not entitled to 503 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 3: being a good writer. You just have to work at 504 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 3: it every day. One of the reasons I stepped back 505 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 3: from like the NonStop album cycle, taking steps back away 506 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 3: from fame, was because to write you have to learn 507 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: a lot. You have to be deeply engaged with life 508 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 3: so that something can inspire you, and you don't know 509 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: how that's going to come out of you. I think 510 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 3: that for me it meant that I had to keep 511 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 3: finding a freshness and an aliveness in my body, and 512 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 3: that you never know if that's going to be received. 513 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody will hear this ten minute 514 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 3: piece of music called the Portal. It's strange. There's no 515 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: format for it, there's nowhere to put that out. They 516 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 3: were just asking on streaming platforms like what category. I'm like, hmm, 517 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 3: you tell me, ah what they're calling mental health or 518 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: b Yeah, exactly. It's strange, but it's just so authentically me. 519 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 3: And that's all you can do is do the work, 520 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 3: do the work that you believe in. No idea how 521 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 3: I'll be remembered. I just know that for me, it's 522 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 3: very important that I push myself as a writer, and 523 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 3: for me, that means something has to be alive and 524 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 3: fresh and awaken you. That isn't trying to be liked. 525 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 3: It's just trying to be evolving in your own humanity. 526 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: Juell, thank you for sharing your time with us on 527 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: the Bright Side. 528 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 3: Thanks, it's an honor, and thanks for helping people realize 529 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 3: just how much beauty and sunny days are ahead of 530 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: all of us. 531 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: Jewel is a singer, songwriter and mental health advocate. That's 532 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're re airing our interview 533 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: with Laura McCowan, the author of We Are the Luckiest 534 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: The Surprising Magic of a Sober Life. 535 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 2: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 536 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 537 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, and 538 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at 539 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 2: Danielle Robe. 540 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 541 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 542 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.