1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: to stuff. I've never told your protection of I Heart 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Radio's house stuff work. So for this episode, which is 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: kind of your your first official episode as a full 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: post my debut, right yeah, official debut, your official now, y'all, Yeah, 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm not, We're going to do kind of a check 7 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: in on feminism. Feminism, Yeah, what it means to be 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: a feminist today, the F word, the dreaded word. And 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: this was your suggestion, Samantha. Um, you kind of wanted 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to when I first came on, I did bad feminist 11 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: because that's something I struggled with a lot, right, Um, 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that a little bit. 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: But just feeling like I wasn't a good enough feminist, 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: right Um, So yeah, we'll check Yeah, I think it 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: was important. Um almost like let's just kind of start 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: the ball rolling again. Because a the definition changes, the 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: not necessarily the main definition, but the outlook of it 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: changes by generation by generation essentially. Um. And it's kind 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: of baffling how even in this day and age, I 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: have younger people, younger generations of my life in my 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: family who refused to be called feminists, even though they're 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: trying to work in fields that are pretty uh sexist 23 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: in general, and you're kind of like, wait, how do 24 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: you not want to be known as a feminist in 25 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: a culture that is going to use your sex against you? 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: And I think I was like, we need to come 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: back and have another revamping, another conversation again not necessarily 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: for our listeners. Most likely our listeners already understand and 29 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: they're on top of it, but there has become a 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: whole new label of like what is a wife feminist? 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: You know? And what is a feminist who is an ally? Like, 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: it's just a whole different labels now, and especially with 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: the fact that we have to be very very specific. Yeah, 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: and doing their research for this episode, I've found that 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people are kind of confused about, um, 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: where we are where we are with feminism. So let's 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: get into it. And first, you know, I love dictionary definence. 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: Give me that dictionary definition, all right. Feminism is one 39 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: equality of the sexes to the theory of the political, economic, 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: and social quality of the sexes. What I call it 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: Beyonce three the belief that men and women should have 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: equal rights and opportunities, and for the doctrine advocating social, political, 44 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: and all other rights of women equal to those of men. 45 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how any of those are 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: really offensive. I I don't think they are. I think 47 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: that and we're we're going to talk about this for sure, 48 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: But I think that a lot of people and data 49 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: bears this out say they want equality, but they don't 50 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: want to be called a feminist. It's such a bad word. 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, But I will say I'm really 52 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: excited to note that. I had really hard conversation with 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: my parents. But my dad was like, feminism, you just 54 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: won't equal rights, right, And I was like, yeah, he goes, yeah, 55 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm on board with that. And my parents are very conservative. 56 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: And when my said dad said that, I felt such triumph. 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, dad, Yeah, he's an ally 58 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: whether he wants admitted or not. But he seemed to 59 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: understand pretty clearly this is a simplicity of it all. Yeah. 60 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: I similarly recently witnessed, um, my dad he's he's very liberal. Um, 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: but he got and I wouldn't say a fight, but 62 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,839 Speaker 1: kind of a heated discussion with his Oh, I don't 63 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: even know how they related, but they related somehow about 64 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: because this I call him my my uncle. He was like, 65 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: you'll make any man lucky any when you just gotta 66 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: settle down. And my dad like, well, maybe she doesn't 67 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: want to settle I got to witness this whole thing, 68 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: like fight unfold about she doesn't need no man. Love that. 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: I love that. You're just an audience and all right, 70 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: there's my good and there's the bad. They're just order, 71 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, Hagon is attagonists for me. Wonderful the tennis match. 72 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: It was funny because I've said before on the show 73 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: that for a long time my family was trying to 74 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: get me to settle down. And now they've sort of 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, right, but anybody I think eventually this day 76 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: and age, and we'll talk about this later on in 77 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: our episodes because I'll be around now. Um, it's that 78 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: they've understood that relationships and the definition of relationships and 79 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: partnerships have changed. And even though it's not it doesn't 80 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: make my parents happy. I'll say it that way because 81 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: I am also single and late late thirties and don't 82 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: have children and don't desire to have children. But my 83 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: parents are like, but you're not in a relationship where 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: you have to deal with a back and forth with 85 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: a divorce or you know what I mean. And so 86 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: they're like, we're good. I'm gonna let you be now. 87 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: As we're five ten years ago, as we talked about 88 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: the first episode, how We Fail Yours, my mom was 89 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: scared that I was gonna die alone. She's now backed 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: off as well. Wonderful feminism. That's what I call femin 91 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: That's what progress allowed to be single in our families 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: without judgment. Progress. Um. And one thing I found an 93 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: article that I enjoyed from Forbes, but it was just 94 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of like, ask yourself these questions if you're if 95 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: you don't want to call yourself a feminist. But um 96 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: the author of it, Um, she emphasized that it's equality, 97 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: not sameness, which is different. And going back to bad feminism, 98 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people listening to this can 99 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: connect with that because we all have those things that 100 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: we like write that are misogynistic. Um. We listen to 101 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: music that we know is problematic. That's one of my 102 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: favorite examples from Roxane Gay wrote the book Bad Feminism. Um, 103 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: we use language and phrases we know we shouldn't. Yeah, 104 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm I'm very very to you of that. I will 105 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: say sometimes I do feel like I'm owning those links, 106 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: like words or terms by using it. But I've had 107 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: that debate with people as well because I have a 108 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: potty mill. It's just an automatic kind of my rebellion 109 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: from like middle school. I didn't do anything else. I 110 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: didn't do drugs or anything, but I curse a lot 111 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: and I still do. Um. But yeah, it's a problem 112 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: back when you start thinking about it and you have 113 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: to watch yourself because you and I are, like being 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: in this podcast, hyper aware the fact that you need 115 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: to watch what you say and it's important and it 116 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: should it should hold you accountable. But to be under 117 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: that kind of microscope, I'm like, yeah, I mean a 118 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: bad feminist. Yeah, it might be. Yeah. That was one 119 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: of the first things when I was entering talks about 120 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: what you host. This was No, I don't know. I 121 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: was obviously scary. It can be quick aside. Um Lauren 122 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: over Savor, who's my co host over there, she was 123 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: telling me about this comic book where it's like a 124 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: matriarchal society and they say father figures instead of Oh, 125 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: I like that I think we should keep that, um, 126 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: and our our motto on this show is that we're 127 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: always learning and growing together. But one thing, there are 128 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: cases of like legit right bad feminism for example turfs 129 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: or trans exclusionary radical feminists. And that's a back and 130 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: forth that we've had to talk about because I know, 131 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: a prominent author made a statement and was very very 132 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: exclusionary and and you got why, you know what I mean, 133 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 1: We're all in this together at some point. Something else 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: I think we all struggle with is having a lot 135 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: of us have memories of not being a feminist or 136 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: not being a good feminist. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. I 137 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: was raised to think that feminism was, well, to put 138 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: it us bluntly, a sin, you know. And even a 139 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: small conversation that I've had recently that was a conversation 140 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: that feminism was the end of humanity and all the 141 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: goodness like yeah, and then it was a tool of 142 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: satan that was actually quoted to me recently. Um. And 143 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: it took me a bit of time to realize my 144 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: own personality alone was in conflict with the misogynistic idea 145 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: that men are the leaders. Um. My independence and my 146 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: ability to raise myself essentially and survive made me think, 147 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: why am I following you? Who are making decisions based 148 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: on emotions? And I had so many especially like in 149 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: UM college, I had so many guys who are being 150 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: put as leaders, and come on, we're in college. None 151 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: of us are really great leaders. We may be allowed 152 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: and have some good plans, but it came down to, wait, 153 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: you're basing yours on your emotion more so than my 154 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: I am, which I'm a little more rational in that 155 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: back and forth of the empathy and trying to be 156 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: and everybody's shoes, as well as the fact that I've 157 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: had more world experience and understanding, you know, different things 158 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: like that that I'm like, why do I Why am 159 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: I following you? I'm like, I don't trust you, and 160 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: not that I want people to follow me, but I 161 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: don't choose to follow you, you know what I mean. 162 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: And I think that's when it really hit him, like, oh, 163 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: you went away to a liberal and it wasn't actually 164 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: that liberal. The University of Georgia literal, well just college 165 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: and general college and general. Now my my actual major 166 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: social work is very liable for the most part, UM 167 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, literally the defining moments in college 168 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm a feminist. I'm sorry, all this 169 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: is what's going down too, because I don't need to 170 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: come here and try to find a mate, right um, 171 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: and define myself and all the other normal standards that 172 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: I was supposed to go through. In the early late 173 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: nineties or or the eighties, it was changing for me. 174 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's when I was like, oh, but I 175 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: really was not originally a feminist. No, yeah, I wasn't either, 176 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: And I think I mean, I didn't really know. I 177 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: had the same associations that a lot of people have, 178 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: which is why they don't want to call themselves feminist, 179 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: is that it meant like you didn't shave and write 180 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: all those kinds of a ridiculous thing, right um. And 181 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: for a long time, feminism hasn't been intersectional. It's been 182 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: classist and ablest and white. Yeah, and I know it's 183 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: been previously discussed. When we look at the history of 184 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: feminist activism, we have to continue to credit many women 185 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: of color as being the pioneers of the fight. And 186 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: I think for a little while they were kind of 187 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: just erased, um as people who were making history and 188 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: making changes, and women like Short Gurner Truth OUTA. B. Wells, 189 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: Shirley Chisholm, the Lorias SUERGTA, and organizations like the Mississippi 190 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: Labor Union, which was created in eighteen sixty six by 191 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: black women, who was the first labor union in that state. 192 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I mean they, yeah, they should be celebrated even more 193 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: and and be recognized for what they've done for feminism 194 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: in itself. I mean, at this time, I think slavery 195 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: was had finally ended and they came together and it 196 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: was all black women that they were um. Country women 197 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: would laundresses, said a thing. No, I don't think. I 198 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: don't think that's a thing you did laundry. But it 199 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: was a union together because they were not being paid well. 200 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: It worked and it was the beginning of other unions. 201 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: That was one in Atlanta as well, UM, and that 202 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: created some change. And it was made up of black women. 203 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: Let's just be very clear. They was made up of 204 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: black women who pioneered these things even before. And then 205 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: we have to talk about the whole back and forth 206 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: with a suffragette movement and how exclusive they were, um 207 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: even to the point that they were taking down black 208 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: men for having those before them, you know, and some 209 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: of the things that was said. It was just really 210 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: horrifying and exclusionary. Yeah. Yeah, And I have to say 211 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: something also horrifying is when I was researching this well, 212 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: I got really disheartened with all the top results because 213 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like the first two were you know, feminism yea. 214 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: The rest of them are all like anti feminist, um 215 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: women against feminism, minimist what uh minimists. I still can't. 216 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: I'm like even make say it, like yeah, why y'all. 217 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: I love the parks and Ruck though episode I don't 218 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: know did you watch parts yeah, and the last like 219 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: couple of I think it's the last season and which 220 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: the menimist come and fight for um Ben because he's like, 221 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: let Ben speak and she's like I just let him 222 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: speak and he was like, okay, we just wrote our 223 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: bikes here. And it was just like a whole like 224 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: comical of like calm down, like you want to talk 225 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: about being enraged. This is one of those moments about 226 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: being a like a snowflake, as you can say, oh no, um, 227 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: we have some more for you listeners, but first we're 228 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick break for a word from 229 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So one 230 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: of the things, um, when I mentioned at the top, 231 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: there's seems to be some confusion, right. One of the 232 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: areas of confusion around feminism right now has to do 233 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: with what wave are in right, and just really quickly, 234 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: the use of waves to describe feminism is a little 235 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: misleading because it suggests that feminism is a monolith and 236 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: that these monolithts crust and fall at clear points, which 237 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: is not the case. It's also confusing because waves took 238 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: place at different times around the world, so sometimes in 239 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: different orders, like second wave feminism in America is equivalent 240 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: to third wave in Europe, things like that. Um, So, 241 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: according to a lot of folks, modern feminism is not 242 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: in the fourth wave, like there's no wave, it's just 243 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: intersectional feminism right now. Maybe it's a continuation of the 244 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: third wave. There are a couple of things that are 245 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: cornerstones of intersectional this third slash fourth wave of feminism, um, queerness, 246 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: body and sex, positivity and trans inclusivity. Right. And another 247 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: important aspect of it is that a lot of it 248 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: takes place on wine like hashtag me two, or or 249 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: it's conceived online like the Women's March. It's also largely 250 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: concerned with justice for women and other marginalized groups, and 251 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: some internet rolls tried to launch a fourth wave of 252 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: feminism that was pro sexualization, pro skinny, and anti fats. Really, yeah, 253 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: were they men these roles or was it assume? But yeah, 254 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure probably. I mean the big back 255 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: and forth about the pro skinny anti fat has been 256 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: a thing back and forth for a little while. Um, 257 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: the whole gap challenge and all of that. I know 258 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: that happened like three years ago, that right, Yeah, And 259 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: it was just a whole like back and forth and 260 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: it's really sad more than anything else. But uh, and 261 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: I know it was a lot of young teenage girls 262 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: that was coming on to that, So I just wondered 263 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: if it was actually created by men or not. Well, 264 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think we did an episode on 265 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: that forever ago, and I said I would have totally 266 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: done that. I was not again bad, right, And it's 267 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: that has everything to do with once again self esteem 268 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: and self worth and as trickles down to so many things. 269 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: And I will say, like, as a bad feminist, I 270 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: remember being in middle school and saying to my family 271 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: that I would follow my husband or follow my father, 272 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: because I trust you. Why wouldn't I that's what women do, 273 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: and thinking about that that's so embarrassing. Yeah, it kind 274 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: of makes me choke a little bit, like I'm like, oh, um, 275 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: because that's what we I think it's loyalty and not 276 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: trusting ourselves in our own opinions. And don't get me wrong, 277 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: I have a really great relationship with my father. He's 278 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: a good man and I do trust him. But there's 279 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: a difference between talking things through and trusting and just 280 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: being like blindly following right. So Yeah. Another thing we 281 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: wanted to put in here is feminism around the world 282 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: because it does happen at different times, different places in 283 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: different ways. Um and like Western feminism largely forgets that 284 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: there are feminism. Wait, there's things outside of the US 285 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: that happened. What are you talking about? What? Um so? 286 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: For instance, after me too in the US, similar hashtags 287 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: went viral around the world in India, China, Spain, Italy, France, Canada, Pakistan, Philippines. 288 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: Um And then we wanted to briefly touch on femicide 289 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: and um. I think it's something important that we don't 290 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: talk about enough and people don't understand enough and when 291 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: I've brought this term ut people don't actually know what 292 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: I am talking about. So, according to the Stop Violence 293 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: dot Org, femicide the term originating in the nineteen seventies, 294 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: emerging in feminist scholarship to distinguish that gender motivated killings 295 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: of women rooted in discrimination and systematic violence from homicide generally, 296 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: and in about the early nineteen nineties kind of shifted 297 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: to the killing of women by men motivated by hate, contempt, pleasure, 298 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: or the assumption of ownership of women UM and then 299 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: it continued to expand to the misogynistic killing of women 300 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: by men, So it kind of gotten simplified into this 301 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: is what this is UM and the definition of femicide 302 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: has changed throughout the last fifty years since it was 303 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: first originated. UM and it's just demonstrate an attempt to 304 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: find a term to cover all gender related killings women. 305 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: And it's motivated by systematic discrimination against and devaluing of 306 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: women and girls. So that's the whole idea is they're 307 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: killing because you are female or identify as female, and 308 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: therefore you don't deserve a PC and d UM and 309 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: it recently it's been talked about in relations to deaths 310 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: due to partner violence. And and that's something that I'm 311 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, you're not talked about. I'm very passionate about 312 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: and discussing about partner violence, domestic violence. And according to 313 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: the CDC in two thousand seventeen, more than fifty of 314 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: the female related deaths were related to partner violence, right, 315 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: and you hear about it more and more every day. UM. 316 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: And while these include the killing of women and girls 317 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 1: as a result of domestic violence, the holistic conception of 318 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: femicide UM includes crimes such as dowry related killings so 319 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: called honor killings which is still happening, female and fanticide 320 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: and increased maternal mortality resulting from HOSFORLD practices. And we 321 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: could link that to today's discussion about abortion laws and 322 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: abortion fans, because obviously this is a big concern of 323 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: what these laws are indicating and what could result is 324 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: more maternal deaths UM. And we already know people of color, 325 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: black women are more likely to die from the lack 326 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 1: of health care, from the lack of medical attention, So 327 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: this is really really problematic. And so the discussion of femicides, 328 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: are we enabling them more and more? And this is 329 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: again I think why I get really passionate when we 330 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: talk about feminism as a need and it should be 331 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: called feminism. It needs a label. It needs a title 332 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: because it's too big to just generalize all the feminism 333 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: because could be generalized in whatever. But the fact that 334 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: it it causes enough of a UM reaction, Yeah, that's 335 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: what we need. That's what we needs to happen. This 336 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: whatever waver intersectional feminism time period that we're in has 337 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: had some like cornerstone. Cornerstone is not the right word, 338 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: like key events, key events, everyday Sexism project, um, the 339 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: slut Walk Me two times up, Yes all women, um, 340 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: Emma Watson's Heat for She You in Campaign one Billion 341 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: Rising and the Woman's March. But it does have some problems. UM. 342 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: Call out culture is one thing, just because it can 343 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: make movement appear hostile, and it sometimes it is hostile, 344 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: and it can keep potential allies away or silent. And 345 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: this isn't to say something shouldn't be called out if 346 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: it's wrong, but it is something that I think. I mean, 347 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: I hardly ever tweet because I'm like people could read 348 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: this and it's such such a like I've head the 349 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: cat today, like oh, god right, I mean the whope 350 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean and I know that was a conversation about 351 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: social media warrior is okay, um, and it's good that 352 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: we do call each other out, but it becomes so 353 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: hostile that it becomes uh feminist versus feminist or even 354 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: to the point that when people are called out and 355 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: hopefully they're done it in the correct manner, let's say, um, 356 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: that they get defensive and it becomes a whole well, 357 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: this is your fault, this is your fault, um, And 358 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: then you kind of look at these same fact as 359 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: it's writing. So writing seems impersonal anyway. So like if 360 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: I don't have ten happy face emojis or wink something, 361 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: it feels hostile, you know what I mean. But it's 362 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: that's the problem. It's like you don't doing a text 363 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: back and forth. There's so much leeway from miscommunication and misunderstanding. 364 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: One misquote is just can take you down completely and 365 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: again it should be something that is corrected. But there's 366 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: such like a pitchfork and fire type of I'm coming 367 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: after you mentality sometimes that it gets really problematic, um 368 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: and almost disheartening and dangerous to a certain extent. And 369 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a complex he wants thing actually, 370 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: but you know, there's just been examples of people the 371 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: wrong people getting called out and having your lives, so 372 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: it's just something to be I mean, actually that just 373 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: happened recently where an author who is a person of 374 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: color I believe, um called out a trans Transit employee 375 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: for eating and almost got her fired. So people went 376 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: after her and she lost a book deal. Like it 377 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: was I think over this weekend that happened, and it 378 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: gets intense. You got to be careful. Yeah. Um. Something 379 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: kind of related, it's slacktivism, since a lot of this 380 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: does take place online. Um, you know, slacktivists taking pictures 381 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: and like look at me volunteering right during this feminist thing. Um. 382 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: And that also kind of relates to the whole what 383 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: is that called commercialization of feminism, so companies being like, ah, 384 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: we can make money off of this, which is kind 385 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: of antithetical through feminism right there, right um. And also 386 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: technology that because it's dependent it's dependent on technology, it 387 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: impacts who can participate and exacerbates the classism and able 388 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: is m because who can afford the technology you can 389 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: who at the time who can use it? So that 390 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: that's a concern. And another criticism I have seen is 391 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: celebrities being at the forefront of a lot of the 392 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: public perception or understanding of feminism, which means mainstream feminism 393 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: is a fluent in white together. You and I talked 394 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: about this earlier about Alissa Milano that this weekend when 395 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: it was a sub strike, and I was like, what's happening. 396 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of controversy back and forth 397 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: on her and how it is ablest and it is 398 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: very much heteronormative ideas um with white people. It's like 399 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: white feminism, this is what we were talking about, and 400 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: how it's problematic and exclusion tory for many others. And 401 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I mean you should definitely try. 402 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: For me, I'm a little confused, you should definitely try 403 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: to not have sex. I mean, like, if that's something 404 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: you're passionate about, I let's go for it. But I mean, huh, 405 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: but that's just me. That's just me. I'm gonna get 406 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: some conversations on that one. And this. I don't think 407 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: this will surprise anyone listening, but this whatever wave of 408 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: intersectional feminism that we're in, has inspired a lot of 409 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: back right, A lot and a lot of it online 410 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: again yes, um, so like gamer Gate is a greed 411 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: example in cells, we're gonna be talking about in cells, 412 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: um the m r A. They're fantastic things, things like that. 413 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: And this kind of brings us to a question, is 414 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: why our people afraid of feminism? Right? UK you Gove 415 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: survey found that thirty of women said yes when asked 416 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: if they were feminists, which is up slightly compared to 417 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: recent years. Five other countries pulled in Europe fared similarly. 418 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: Among men and women. Only eight percent identified as feminist 419 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: in Germany. Um. But the same study found that a 420 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: much higher number agreed that women and men weren't equal 421 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: and that they should be um, and that sexism is 422 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,479 Speaker 1: still an issue one. I think that's harder to to deny, 423 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: like I think, and on a survey, if you see 424 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: men and women deserved to be equal, I think it's 425 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: easier to say yes, right right than just the one 426 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: term of feminism right um. And it does suggest that 427 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: it is the word itself that people are rejecting. In 428 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: the US, and two thirds of the twenty seven thousand 429 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: people surveyed said that they believed in gender equality Women 430 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: in the working class are less likely to identify as feminist, 431 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: and of women, surveys said it hasn't done much for 432 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: women of color, pointing to that class, this white thing 433 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: that we've been talking about. And honestly, I think the 434 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: rejection of the word feminism, the fear of it is 435 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: just been very successful marketing has Yeah, and we've all 436 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: heard it before. A feminist is an angry man hating 437 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: rab burning and that never even happened. Um ugly lesbian 438 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: so o hey, homophobia too, who doesn't wear makeup and 439 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: doesn't shave her legs? Again? How are these things bad? 440 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like the man hating, I get, um, but anger, 441 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: conservaive purpose and you know what, I can go without 442 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: a braw Oh hell yeah, oh hell yeah. I'm taking 443 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: that thing off immediately, thrown across the way and just 444 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: letting loose. And you know what, I don't shave my legs. 445 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: I don't have to though I don't really grow out 446 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: of here, but like, nope, not gonna do it. Why, 447 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's up to you, that's the thing. Like 448 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: if you don't want to shave your legs, right, Like 449 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm just like I don't want did about these are 450 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: bad things, especially for women. Yeah. Yeah, when it interviewed 451 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: many people and the survey said that they didn't believe 452 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: this stereotype, but they didn't want to be associated with 453 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: the stereotype, and they often also do a Seinfeld. I 454 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: do not think there's anything wrong with that when it 455 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: comes to the association with lesbianism. And we've talked about 456 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: this before, but another part of this fear around the 457 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: word feminism, um is our societal fear and punishment of 458 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: ambitious women, which is kind of in general, the whole 459 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: misogynistic talk in tone, within offices, within corporations, um, the 460 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: whole idea of a woman being threatening if she's successful 461 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: or if she's a sort of UM. Again, I don't 462 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: understand why that's a bad thing either. Yeah, Um, I 463 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: think it's a bad thing for certain people. Are they 464 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: perceive it to be because they see it as a 465 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: fear of changing the status quo, men losing power, changing traditions, 466 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: destroying the nuclear family in the very fabric of our society. 467 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: I read that multiple so successful, um, and then I 468 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: I also think for for a lot of people, there 469 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: is that fear that I talked about, the fear of 470 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: not being good enough right to be to call yourself 471 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: a feminist, or um guilt about things that you you 472 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: like and you know you shouldn't and you feel you 473 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: feel like if you say you're a feminist, that means 474 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: you have to get rid of those things, or maybe 475 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: even this whole wave monolith narrative. People who don't agree 476 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: with the feminists they know on certain points may think 477 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: that means they aren't feminists, right, but yeah, we were not. 478 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: We don't all agree on like every single issue so 479 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: hard and cut. Nothing else in life is like that. 480 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: But yet this has to be like you better be 481 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: one way or the other. You're just not. You're excluded completely. 482 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: Like I know, we've definitely had some um of our 483 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: listeners right in talking about how they enjoy this or 484 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: they enjoy um tradition like this and you know, the wedding, 485 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: wedding and performances and changing your last name and all 486 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: that has been a big like back and forth and 487 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: big conversation of what it represents to being tradition to 488 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, all of those things, and no one's really wrong. 489 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the thing that we 490 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: also need to talk about as feminism in itself. If 491 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: a woman enjoys something and just thinking it's a part 492 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: of her right as long as it's not like and 493 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: I guess it's maybe too generic to say, but it's not. 494 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: It does not, um prohibit anyone else's rights and happiness. 495 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: Why is that wrong? That makes sense? I mean, And 496 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: again this is a very generalized statement, and I know 497 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, what, But for those who 498 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: enjoy being at home with their children, is there right? 499 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? For those who want to 500 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: be at work and allow their children to be at 501 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: a preschool, is there right? Um? For those who don't 502 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: want children, is there right? And for those who are 503 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: trying to have children and are doing different avenues of it, 504 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: why isn't that okay? Now, there's also the back back 505 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: and forth conversation about and I'm just obviously picking in 506 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: on the women and children and the lifestyles as of 507 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: you know this this time and age. But that's the 508 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: problem is that there there's people who are so cutting 509 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: vizes like if you're doing this, then you're doing it wrong, 510 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's problematic in itself. Yeah, yeah, there's we 511 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of conversations to be had yes, but 512 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: for now we have a little bit more for you. 513 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: But first we're gonna pause for one more quick break 514 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. 515 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: So we wanted to end with the question of why 516 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: we still need feminism because I've seen, and I'm sure 517 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people have seen, well, men and women 518 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: are equal now, So I don't know why we will 519 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: do this. Well it's not true. But yeah, if we 520 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: still aren't equal, we don't make the same pay the 521 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: same work. We still tell girls that their value is 522 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: in their looks and their sexual desirability two men. Um, 523 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: and we do that all kinds of ways through our media, 524 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: through our clothes, the toys we market to girls that 525 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: for a long time have evolved around motherhood and domestic life. Um, 526 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: we can't walk around the streets expecting the same level 527 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: of safety or comfort or even just yeah, just being 528 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: left alone, right, I every time I leave the same 529 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: damn standards of the fact that what you wear m 530 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: it causes whatever reactions from men, and it's your fault. 531 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about in the schools and the 532 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: dress codes is absurd and it goes after girls in 533 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: general because they're distracting to boys. Sexism hurts everybody. I 534 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: just I just doesn't make sense. But then yeah, and 535 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: that goes back to the fact that it also prohibits 536 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: the men metal gender to not be able to show emotion, 537 00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: to not be able to like dolls, to not be 538 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: able to stay at home, you know, like things like that. 539 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: It does hurt everyone, It does. Yeah, absolutely, we don't 540 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: have the same opportunities. And despite being fifty of the population, 541 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: we don't see that reflected in our top positions are 542 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: in our media entertainment. We can't find out this to 543 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: go to space weird strange. Um, the fact that me 544 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: too exists at all. Um, the fact that we still 545 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: have to justify why it has to exist, right, Both 546 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: of those things right. Um. We don't have control over 547 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: our own body when it comes to law and policies, 548 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: still having to fight for it. Yep. Um. We don't 549 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: have accessible child care, our maternity leave in this country, 550 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: and we're still expected to do the care and the 551 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: cleaning even though we have jobs. I mean, we could 552 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: go on and on. There's still a lot to tackle. 553 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot to tackle, but there's a 554 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: lot to um. Again, kind of how we talked about 555 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: in the trauma. We have to change people's way of thinking. Yeah, 556 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because there's enough of us 557 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: who Even for myself, some of the way I think, 558 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh what am I? What am I doing? 559 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: You know? Because in mind, in my own nature once again, um, 560 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm a caretaker and whether it's me being a social 561 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: worker and caring for others or again, I'll talk about 562 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: my apartment complex with my small group of neighbors. I'm 563 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: the mom in that group and I have to make 564 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: sure everybody's okay, everybody's fed. Um. I also struggle with 565 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: the fact that I sacrificed my own self for that 566 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: because I feel like that's what I'm supposed to do 567 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: as a caretaker as a woman. You know, those things, 568 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: And that's the weird mindset to come through. But that's 569 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: what I was raised as as well. Like my mother 570 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: would not eat until my dad had all his stuff 571 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: and she was stopped in the middle of her mills. 572 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: If he needed a second plate, then she would go 573 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: get it for him. My favorite Christmas. Yeah, it's so weird, 574 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: and I remember getting really angry now, but it wasn't 575 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: necessarily that he expected it. It was just done right 576 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: because it was just yeah, yeah, that was were the 577 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: nuclear family. Yeah. In my episode on bad feminism, my well, 578 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of my episode episode, it wasn't mine. I 579 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: sat in there that I used to make cookies for 580 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: the office, and then I started working on the show, 581 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: and I was questioning me everything, like what does this 582 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: mean about me? I just like baking became this thing 583 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: that I was examining, say about me? What do people 584 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: think when I bring? It's hard? I mean and even 585 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: to the point now, Um, when I'm with people, my 586 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: friends and such, I like paying for people. I want 587 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: them to come out with me. So I bribed them 588 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: to come out with me. Um. And I know I've 589 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: had some issues with men who are like, no, you 590 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: don't pay that I do that, and I'm like, no, 591 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. I want to pay because 592 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: I invited you, you know, stuff like that, and then 593 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: that goes back and forth the whole day. Who pays 594 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: who doesn't. But it is a whole different mindset. You 595 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: really start rethinking everything. And I love some hip hop 596 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: you and I know this, but like a lot of 597 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: the hip hop is very obviously, very very misogynistic and 598 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: girl against girl, like like I love them to give 599 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: an love her, but she really does compete with other 600 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: women a lot of the times. And you're kind of like, 601 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: what why You're are all awesome? You and cardiab are 602 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: great be friends. I can't we all be friends? Why 603 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: can't we all be friends? And yeah, and just once 604 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: again trying to unpack the fact that feminism it's not 605 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: a dirty word, you know what I mean? Like it 606 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: just just seeing people's reaction to that word alone is 607 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: still shocking to me. And you would think you would hope, 608 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: but you're right, like, Um, the conservative radio people who 609 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: like people who are afraid of women essentially have done 610 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: a good job and trashing this word as much as possible. UM. 611 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: And I for myself, I have a I come from 612 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: a small conservative town, and a lot of my friends, UM, 613 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: who have very conservative parents but have become liberal as 614 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: they've kind of gotten older. Um, and they still hesitate 615 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: to call themselves feminists, even though I'm like, no, you are. 616 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: But they're like afraid of the word. They're afraid of 617 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: how people will view them when they themselves. Still remember 618 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: in college having to discussion with a friend of mine 619 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: and she was like, I just don't want your thought. 620 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want people any think. 621 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm like that, you know whatever. And I was like, 622 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? You know, you can't come 623 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: you couldn't have come to college without feminism. You couldn't 624 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: be here alone, you know. Like I was trying to 625 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: explain all the minute things. I'm like, you understand you're 626 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: able to wear whatever you want because of feminism, Like 627 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: do you understand you really vote because of feminism? And 628 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: it's just kind of they were just like, well, I mean, 629 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean. I'm like, no, 630 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: I really, I really don't explain it to me. Um. Yeah, 631 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: So that's about where we are with our checking. A 632 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: lot of generalizations in there with added subjects and such. Yeah, 633 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's the thing is, it's not a 634 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: monolist um. So we would love to hear from from 635 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: you listeners what what your brand of feminism is and 636 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: what it means to you, And if you'd like to 637 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: email us you can. We have a new email, but 638 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: if you send it to the old email, it will 639 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: still still come to us. One of our listeners on 640 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: instagrams this is not as catchy as you think. I 641 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: never said it was catchy. It is stuff Media, mom 642 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You know what 643 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: we can make it catchy, dude, there's some kind of 644 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: two never mind, move on. That was That was some 645 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: cold rejection right there. Um. You can also find us 646 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You and on 647 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our 648 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening. 649 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: Stephone Never Told You is a production of I Heart Radios. 650 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 651 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 652 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.