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Speaker 1: He yea on a normal In the show with normal,

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Speaker 1: she takes for when the news gets weird.

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Speaker 2: I am Mary Katherine here, and I'm Carol Markowitz. What

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Speaker 2: a weekend, Mary.

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Speaker 3: Catherine can't stop?

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Speaker 4: Won't stop, guy, I won't it just stop? Though on

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Speaker 4: a weekend, it would be nice if it stopped.

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Speaker 2: The big story this weekend is Joe Biden's health. And

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Speaker 2: we went into the weekend having the conversation about how

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Speaker 2: his mental health was doing in the time of his presidency,

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Speaker 2: how with it he was, and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: And we came out of the weekend finding out that

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Speaker 2: he has fairly advanced prostate cancer. This is awful, obviously,

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Speaker 2: I echo Tim Carney who tweeted former President Biden.

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Speaker 4: Deserves our prayers. He does not deserve the benefit of

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Speaker 4: the doubt. Yeah, that's where I am.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good way of putting it, because I

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Speaker 1: truly wish the president a full recovery. Prostate cancer is

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Speaker 1: a thing that is quite common in older men. It's

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Speaker 1: something most people have an experience with through a relative

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Speaker 1: or a dad or whoever. If it's caught early, it

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Speaker 1: is extremely treatable. This one has metastasized to his bones,

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Speaker 1: so it is obviously more dangerous. It's in a later stage,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that his treatment such that it is,

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Speaker 1: is not painful and that he can get to the

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Speaker 1: other side of this. And also, just as I would

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Speaker 1: always say about John Fetterman, Yeah, the fact that his

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Speaker 1: health event is regrettable and sad does not preclude us

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Speaker 1: from criticizing a public figure when they deserve to be

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Speaker 1: criticized period.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm not going to lay off on him.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think there's more reason now to question

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Speaker 1: what exactly his family and the people suing him and

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Speaker 1: his staff told us during his presidency, and how many

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Speaker 1: lies there really were.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely right, And a twenty twenty two clip of

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Speaker 2: him has gone viral again where he says this.

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Speaker 4: Let's roll the clip of Joe Biden.

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Speaker 5: I just lived up the road. I just an apartment

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Speaker 5: complex when we moved to Delaware, and because it was

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Speaker 5: a four lane highway that was accessible, my mother drove

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Speaker 5: us and rather than us be able to walk and

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Speaker 5: guess what the first frost you knew what was happening.

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Speaker 5: It had to put on your windshield wipers to get

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Speaker 5: literally the oil slick off the window. That's why I

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Speaker 5: had so damn any other people I grew up had cancer.

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Speaker 2: At the time, the White House said that was a

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Speaker 2: flub and he didn't actually have cancer. But now, of

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Speaker 2: course the thinking is they knew all along, and they

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Speaker 2: didn't tell the American people.

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Speaker 1: Well, and if you have any experience with a relative

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Speaker 1: or friend who has been diagnosed with prostate cancer, again,

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Speaker 1: you know that it can be caught with merely blood screening,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily prostate exams. You would imagine that a man

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Speaker 1: who has been president and indeed a public figure and

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Speaker 1: public official for low these many years, would have been

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Speaker 1: regularly screened for this, that's right, which leads you to think,

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Speaker 1: how long did they know about this diagnosis before it

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Speaker 1: became metastatic. Now I was listening to Cole and This

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Speaker 1: Sapphire this morning on Fox, and she's like, look, there's

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Speaker 1: an outside possibility that they had stopped screening him, because

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Speaker 1: later on in life sometimes we stopped screening for lower

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Speaker 1: level cancers. There's a chance that it metastasized very quickly,

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Speaker 1: that it went from zero to sixty very quickly after

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Speaker 1: he left the presidency. But she also noted in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one he was being screened for these things. So

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Speaker 1: the chances that he wasn't being screened during his presidency

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Speaker 1: pretty low. And again, these people have lied to us

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Speaker 1: so many times about his health.

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Speaker 3: I will not believe it unless I get no.

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Speaker 1: I need his PSA numbers for every year that he's

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Speaker 1: been in public office.

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Speaker 3: That's what I do.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Nichole's being very charitable about it. There's obviously a lot

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Speaker 2: of discussion about when they knew. On MSNBC this morning,

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Speaker 2: doctor Zeke Emanuel said.

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Speaker 6: This, You're a noncologist, obviously incredibly respected. You believe that

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Speaker 6: it is likely, just for those just tuning in, you

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Speaker 6: believe it is likely, if this prostate cancer has spread

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Speaker 6: to the bone, that he could have had it for

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Speaker 6: up to a decade. But certainly it's likely. Would it

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Speaker 6: be fair to say it's likely to have had this

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Speaker 6: for at least several years?

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Speaker 1: Oh more than several years.

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Speaker 7: You don't get prostitions.

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Speaker 6: I just want to stop you. So this is this

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Speaker 6: is not speculation. If you have prostate cancer that has

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Speaker 6: spread to the bone, then he's most certainly you were saying,

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Speaker 6: had it when he was president of the United States.

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, he did not develop it in the last

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Speaker 7: one hundred two hundred days. He had it while he

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Speaker 7: was president.

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Speaker 6: He probably had it at the start of his presidency in.

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Speaker 7: Twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that I don't think there's any disagreement about that.

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Speaker 3: Oh I want to know.

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Speaker 1: I want to know why MSNBC is running such irresponsible

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories on its network.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, this is not Newsmax, it's

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Speaker 2: not o an, it's MSNBC saying this. It's MSNBC bringing

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Speaker 2: on a guest to say that we were likely lied

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Speaker 2: to about the president's health and we know that this

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Speaker 2: went on. You know, one of my Twitter followers, Jarvis Best, tweeted,

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Speaker 2: if you don't want people to be conspiracy theorists, stop

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Speaker 2: engaging in massive conspiracies.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what the f to tell you.

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Speaker 1: And well, and and here this really bothers me because

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Speaker 1: what this is and again we have both said we

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Speaker 1: hope he experiences a full recovery. I think it is

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Speaker 1: highly likely that they knew about this during his presidency,

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Speaker 1: and even before it. It is vanishingly unlikely that that's

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Speaker 1: not the case, in which case they lied about it.

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Speaker 1: And what they're doing now is they are taking a

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Speaker 1: more sympathetic and smaller lie and announcing it to save

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Speaker 1: them from the unsympathetic, gigantic lie that they have perpetrated

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Speaker 1: and gotten caught in. Now, is this uncharitable of me?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: For this reason, because Biden's mo O for decades has

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Speaker 1: been to point to his significant and real personal tragedies.

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Speaker 1: The loss of his white daughter, the recovery times of

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Speaker 1: his little boys and how he raised them on his

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Speaker 1: own for a while, the loss of his son Bo.

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Speaker 1: All of these things he uses regularly during his political

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Speaker 1: career to get him out of hot water. Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: soon as he mentions Bo, you're not allowed to ask

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Speaker 1: him about Afghanistan anymore. That's the pattern it has been

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Speaker 1: for years. I hate that he does this. He uses

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Speaker 1: your compassion against you and says, you're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: talk about my political failings anymore. But we are allowed

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Speaker 1: to talk about this, And in fact, I think it

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Speaker 1: makes it worse.

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Speaker 2: And I think we've gotten to a place where people

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Speaker 2: are just not having it. David Axelrod actually said out

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Speaker 2: loud conversations about Biden's mental acuity should be more muted

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Speaker 2: and set aside for now, as he's struggling through this,

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Speaker 2: like you're not supposed.

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Speaker 4: To say it out loud.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to kind of, you know, nudge the public

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Speaker 2: in that direction. But they've gotten so desperate because people

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Speaker 2: are being so kind of blatant about their opinions on this,

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Speaker 2: which I love that they are saying, please stop talking

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 4: It's really not nice of you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what they want.

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Speaker 1: They want you to default to being nice to protect

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Speaker 1: this entire cabal from their own giant scandal.

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Speaker 3: And I will not.

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Speaker 4: I will so will not. Yes.

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Speaker 2: So is the timing a giant coincidence? Is what people

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Speaker 2: are wondering. And you know, our old friend Brian Stelter,

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Speaker 2: he had this to say.

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Speaker 8: I'm seeing some prostate cancer survivors, people who have lived

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Speaker 8: with this disease, who have been through this, expressing support

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Speaker 8: both condolences but also support and cheering Biden on as

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Speaker 8: he faces this. The timing, Jessica is just extraordinary. We

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Speaker 8: know from the statement from his personal spokesman that Biden

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Speaker 8: learned the diagnosis on Friday. Well, what was the biggest

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Speaker 8: Biden's story on Friday? It was the release of those

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Speaker 8: audio excerpts from his conversations with Robert Herr back in

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Speaker 8: twenty twenty three. This was the audio that Axios obtained

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Speaker 8: almost certainly from the Trump administration, showing memory lapses. And

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Speaker 8: you heard a lot of people on Friday talking about

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Speaker 8: that audio being hard to hear, even excruciating to hear

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Speaker 8: Biden showing his age on those audio tapes that had

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Speaker 8: never been heard by the public until now. So on

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Speaker 8: the day that story was breaking, Biden was facing this

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Speaker 8: personal news, at least that's according to this statement from

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Speaker 8: his personal spokesman. So you have that as one element

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Speaker 8: of the timing here, and then you have, as you

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Speaker 8: and Paul just acknowledged, this book coming out one of

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Speaker 8: the biggest political books in several years. Take out our

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Speaker 8: colleague Jake Taper for a second. This book, no matter who,

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Speaker 8: no matter where it was coming from, was going to

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Speaker 8: be a very big, blockbuster book. And it just so

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Speaker 8: happens two of the best reporters in Washington, Jake Tapper

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Speaker 8: and now Thompson, are the authors of it. It's already

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Speaker 8: a best seller based on a number of pre orders.

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Speaker 8: And so this book comes out in two days, but

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Speaker 8: some of the excerpts have already come out, and it's

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Speaker 8: reignited this debate in Washington and beyond within the Democratic

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Speaker 8: Party about Biden, about whether he should have run for

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Speaker 8: reelection at all. So it seems to me, Jessica, this

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Speaker 8: debate doesn't end at all, but it is briefly put

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Speaker 8: on pause as there's one of today's news.

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Speaker 2: Extraordinary timing, Mary Catherine, extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: You're telling me the Robert Hurr tapes that we were

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Speaker 1: all told would reveal that he was just smart as

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Speaker 1: a whip all the way through, because Robert Hurr was

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Speaker 1: actually just smearing him for me, of the present Democrats

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Speaker 1: back then, the day those are finally released and we

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Speaker 1: all hear that the right wing conspiracy conspiracy theorists were

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Speaker 1: again just correct, that's the day we get this other

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Speaker 1: news that is fascinating.

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Speaker 4: For extraordinary timing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, do you think we believe you,

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Speaker 2: Brian Stelter, Do you think we think that you believe

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Speaker 2: the White House that this is extraordinary timing? I mean,

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Speaker 2: the former White House, come on, now, come on.

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Speaker 1: It is amazing to me that they almost they almost

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Speaker 1: flaunted as as it's a feature not a bug, that

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Speaker 1: that if they're covering a democratic presidency, they are the

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Speaker 1: most credulous people on the planet. Right, you're a reporter, dude,

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Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be the most credulous person on

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Speaker 1: the planet. You're supposed to be like, h, these are

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Speaker 1: people with access to power and motives that I should consider,

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Speaker 1: and they just.

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Speaker 3: Out of their brains. They just.

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Speaker 4: The spokesperson said. So how could I possible challenge that?

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Speaker 4: The spokesperson said.

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Speaker 1: And surely we have no other evidence that these people

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Speaker 1: have lied about his health in the past. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is actually and this is the problem I think

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Speaker 1: for Biden and for the press that has covered him credulously,

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Speaker 1: is that a lot of sort of rational people are

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Speaker 1: just looking at this, even left leaning people. I think

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Speaker 1: that the armies of doctors speaking out on x that

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Speaker 1: are like, ah, that doesn't make me sense that this

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Speaker 1: would have just appeared. I think that's very interesting that

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Speaker 1: they're all being pretty vocal about that. But people are

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Speaker 1: just finally saying this is one of the biggest it's

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Speaker 1: I think it's the biggest presidential scandal of my lifetime

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Speaker 1: for sure, And people who are not right leaning people

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Speaker 1: are noticing that, and I think they just made it worse.

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Speaker 4: In another era.

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Speaker 2: I think you and I would be saying different things.

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Speaker 2: I think that so much trust has been broken over

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Speaker 2: the last five years that I think that we know

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Speaker 2: we can't believe any of this. And I think again,

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Speaker 2: in a different time, you know, twenty five years ago,

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Speaker 2: when you and I were starting out in this game,

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Speaker 2: I think we would have been more trusting. But we've

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Speaker 2: seen some things and we know that.

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Speaker 4: We can't be anymore.

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Speaker 2: Our friend Buck Sexton posts the people who now admit

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Speaker 2: they hid Biden's dementia for four years with Soviet level

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Speaker 2: of ruthlessness, are about to be outraged at anyone who

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Speaker 2: suggests Biden's inner circle may have also hid his cancer diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't run the same play again, guys.

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Speaker 4: You only get to do that once.

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Speaker 3: We just saw this.

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Speaker 1: It's also just it's so disgusting what they did to

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Speaker 1: the American people, what they did to Democratic voters. They moved,

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Speaker 1: They did all of this to subvert their own voters,

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Speaker 1: took the possibility of a primary away from them. And

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Speaker 1: now there wasn't some great hue and cry, except from

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Speaker 1: Dean Phillips, but some people certainly probably would have liked

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Speaker 1: a choice had they been presented with one.

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Speaker 3: And yet They're just like, nah, opt.

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Speaker 1: Out when they knew this was the situation, right, and

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Speaker 1: they knew, by the way, how much do they hate

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Speaker 1: Kamala that they were like, well, he does have dementia

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Speaker 1: and cancer, but we cannot hand the reins to her,

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Speaker 1: like we.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely did so. And the joke is, of course that

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Speaker 4: they weren't entirely wrong.

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Speaker 2: She was terrible and they knew that she would be,

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Speaker 2: so that like they accepted that reality, but they were

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Speaker 2: like going to wing it with viben.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is my greatest of all time analogy.

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Speaker 1: This is just the worst of all time debate, and

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Speaker 1: we'll be having it forever more because Biden and Kamala

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Speaker 1: are so uniquely bad. Yeah, that it's hard to ever

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Speaker 1: come to a conclusion about it. But I think I

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Speaker 1: think perhaps two times in a row, Obama and Biden

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Speaker 1: himself both picked vps that they did not want to

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Speaker 1: hand off the presidency too, but then ended up being

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Speaker 1: forced to do so. I don't think Trump made that mistaken.

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Speaker 1: He didn't for whatever policy differences I have with strety Vance,

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Speaker 1: he would be a person who's ready to do that, right.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. I don't don't think anybody would deny that. I

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Speaker 4: don't think.

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Speaker 2: You know, they could have personal disagreements at the end

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Speaker 2: of the next four years, and who knows what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Donald Trump, I like to.

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Speaker 2: Say, I quote my husband, Are you trying to get

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Speaker 2: into the mind of Donald Trump? You know you really

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Speaker 2: don't know where he's going to go, but you can

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Speaker 2: see him obviously feeling.

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Speaker 4: Like this is my successor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I.

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Speaker 1: It astoundingly gets worse. Yeah, that's what I think.

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Speaker 3: Like, just when you think they've hit the level that

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Speaker 3: they can hit.

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Speaker 4: Nope, right, nope, They're like, let us show you a

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Speaker 4: new bottom.

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Speaker 1: And my favorite part about it, as always is the

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Speaker 1: self congratulatory, like moral grandstanding of all of it. Is like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we're still the better people. Obviously we had to do

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Speaker 1: this extraordinarily dishonest thing and perpetrate a constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 4: Here for years and years.

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Speaker 1: But because because Trump is like extraordinarily bad, you get it, right,

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Speaker 1: you get.

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Speaker 4: It Hitler right, So.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, trash.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, We're going to take a short break and come

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Speaker 2: right back with normally Republicans are obviously taking this crazy.

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Speaker 9: Moment to be really good, right, I mean, what else

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Speaker 9: would they be doing right now except pushing through policies

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Speaker 9: that conservatives have wanted for decades.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, there's a big bill.

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Speaker 2: I'm told it's beautiful, big beautiful bill.

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Speaker 1: And look, this is also ties into your observation about

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Speaker 1: like trying to get into Trump's head. The House and

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Speaker 1: Senate Republicans both which must be exactly unified in this

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Speaker 1: reconciliation bill because that's the only way you can pass it,

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Speaker 1: and it is the number one priority of the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: They have to understand what he wants. Getting in his head.

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Speaker 3: Is very hard, So the one big beautiful bill.

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Speaker 1: So they're having to keep the GOP caucus united completely

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Speaker 1: to do this. Uh, he's over here saying, like, maybe

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Speaker 1: raise taxes on the highest earners the Republican parties like

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Speaker 1: this is the last thing we need right now, dude.

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Speaker 1: The only thing we agree on is that we don't

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Speaker 1: us taxes.

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Speaker 6: On any day.

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Speaker 3: And the results of the break big beautiful bill, as.

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Speaker 1: Is almost always the case when the people come together

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Speaker 1: to hash this stuff out, has a bunch of giveaways

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of loopholes and a bunch of nonsense

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Speaker 1: and brings up the baseline of spending of our American

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Speaker 1: bureaucratic Leviathan, despite all of the messaging to the contrary

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Speaker 1: from the Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have.

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Speaker 1: A very low expectations bar for things like these, and

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Speaker 1: it still is managing to take me off.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so bad that I don't think a

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Speaker 2: lot of Americans realize how bad it is.

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Speaker 4: I have to say, I don't follow.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the spending parts as closely as I should.

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Speaker 2: I have in the last few years gotten better at it,

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Speaker 2: but it's complicated. There's so many different avenues to it,

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Speaker 2: and so I get that the average American doesn't understand

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Speaker 2: what's happening. I think David Friedberg, he was on the

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Speaker 2: All In podcast, and he did a really good job

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Speaker 2: of explaining why this spending bill is so bad. On

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Speaker 2: his Twitter, he calls it fiscal emergency O clock in America,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to play just a few minutes of

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Speaker 2: this All In clip. I think it just explains succinctly

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Speaker 2: what the problem is.

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Speaker 7: You should feel shame that your elected officials are proposing

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Speaker 7: that this is the bill that gets past that we

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Speaker 7: vaporize this much money, that we put ourselves this much

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Speaker 7: further in debt that we do not treat the situation

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Speaker 7: as the fiscal emergency that it is. The bill ultimately

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Speaker 7: yields no real change in the annual deficit. The annual

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Speaker 7: deficit could climb to two zero point five trillion dollars

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Speaker 7: being added to the federal debt load every single year

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Speaker 7: going forward. In fact, if you look at the Treasury yields,

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Speaker 7: the thirty year is now kissing five percent. So the

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Speaker 7: United States has called thirty seven trillion dollars of debt

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Speaker 7: at five percent. We're paying close to two trillion dollars

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Speaker 7: a year just in interest on our debt. As this

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Speaker 7: debt gets refinanced, the interest rates are going up because

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Speaker 7: the probability that the US will default on its debt payments,

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Speaker 7: which is what you're buying when you buy US treasuries.

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Speaker 7: You're getting the US government to pay you some number

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Speaker 7: of dollars with interest over time, and the market is

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Speaker 7: now demanding that that interest rate be as high as

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Speaker 7: five percent. Because of this fiscal situation that the United

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Speaker 7: States finds itself in, we are now burning an additional

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Speaker 7: two point five trillion dollars a year adding to our

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Speaker 7: debt load. We are in a fiscal crisis, and we're

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Speaker 7: not willing to admit it. And I've said this from

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Speaker 7: day one that DOGE can only do so much, and

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Speaker 7: clearly that's the case where they're now talking about sub

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Speaker 7: three hundred billion dollars a year in potential annual savings

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Speaker 7: from DOGE action. At the end of the day, Congress

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Speaker 7: needs to take action, and this bill from Congress doesn't

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Speaker 7: take much action. I will tell you that if you

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Speaker 7: look across the board, all of these programs are still

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Speaker 7: being proposed to be run at a cost that is

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Speaker 7: well in excess of their pre COVID levels. And so

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Speaker 7: I would set two guiding principles if I was to

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Speaker 7: be the benevolent dictator of the United States of America.

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Speaker 7: My guiding principal Number one would be that any program

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Speaker 7: that we intend to continue to persist have its budget

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Speaker 7: level cut to pre COVID to twenty nineteen levels. Second

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Speaker 7: would be and if we did that, by the way,

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Speaker 7: we would be in a much better fiscal situation. The

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Speaker 7: second would be that we add no new programs in

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Speaker 7: the moment. There's a whole bunch of you thrown into

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Speaker 7: the spill. As well as increasing the cost and a

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Speaker 7: few cuts here and there. I'll just highlight a couple

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Speaker 7: that I think are worth noting. You know, there's a

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Speaker 7: cut in the SNAP program, which is the Supplemental Nutrition

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Speaker 7: and Assistance program that's food stamps, And I talked about

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Speaker 7: this with Brooke Rowlins in the interview I did a

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Speaker 7: few weeks ago. You can watch it on YouTube, and

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Speaker 7: we talked a little bit about how this SNAP program

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Speaker 7: has absolutely exploded in size from sixty billion a year

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Speaker 7: in twenty nineteen to one hundred and twenty billion a

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Speaker 7: year today. So in this budget proposal, they're actually cutting

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Speaker 7: it back by about thirty billion, so to ninety billion,

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Speaker 7: So it's still fifty percent higher than it was pre COVID.

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Speaker 7: And there's a lot of kind of stories we could

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Speaker 7: go through on what happened during COVID that caused this

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Speaker 7: thing to blow up the way it did. But political

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Speaker 7: wrangling pulled money out of the government into people's pockets,

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Speaker 7: and that is persisting today. I'm a big believer in

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Speaker 7: cutting taxes. Obviously, I'm probably more libertarian than anyone else

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Speaker 7: on the show or that we've ever had on the show.

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Speaker 7: But at the end of the day, you can't just say, hey,

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Speaker 7: let's cut taxes and spend more than we're making. It

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Speaker 7: doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: I have very low expectations for these things. The problem

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Speaker 1: to me again, and I understand, they have to keep

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Speaker 1: everybody together. So they got to buy everybody off with

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Speaker 1: their little benefits, and they got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: Trump also has his many random tax decisions he's made

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Speaker 1: in speeches represented in this bill. So you've got to

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Speaker 1: have no tax on tips, you've got to have no

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Speaker 1: tax on overtime. Any idea he had on the camp paintrail,

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Speaker 1: you got to put it in there.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 1: I understand how that works from a political point of view,

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Speaker 1: but when you start trying to do the math, you

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Speaker 1: end up with some bad math and some bad unintended

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Speaker 1: consequences in all likelihood, because we're going to incentivize certain

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Speaker 1: kinds of work over others.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be weird.

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Speaker 1: But the priority from the beginning should have been extend

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Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen package, period, extend the two thousand and

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Speaker 1: seventy package. If you do not do that, all the

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Speaker 1: people who got a tax cut at that time, which

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Speaker 1: was the majority of Americans, will see their tax.

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Speaker 3: Liability go up. Period. That's what we're trying to.

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Speaker 4: Escape, right, and if that's.

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Speaker 1: Not number one, and you're having a bunch of infighting

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Speaker 1: about these little side issues, and you're fixing the side

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Speaker 1: issues by racking up more spending in other areas, in

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Speaker 1: particular the salt cap discussion, which, let me just say,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing where people in blue states with

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Speaker 1: really high property taxes get to deduct their state and

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Speaker 1: local taxes salt from their federal liabilities bunkers.

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Speaker 2: Even when I lived in New York, I oppose this.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy because what it does is it subsidizes those

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Speaker 1: local and state politicians who give you those whopping taxes

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Speaker 1: because you can deduct it elsewhere, and then they don't

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Speaker 1: pay the price for having raised those taxes on you. Ever,

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Speaker 1: So there's conservatives who believe in not subsidizing this kind

443
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,239
Speaker 1: of behavior are like, hey, there needs to be a

444
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: cap on this deduction, and they're negotiating what that cap

445
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: should be. Understandably, New York Republicans are like, you can't

446
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: make this cap too low because my people are the

447
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: people who benefit from this. And I'm like, we're just

448
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: the whole part. The whole pitch about systemic change and

449
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: how we're going to fix a bunch of things, and

450
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: we have all this opportunity to do so. So look,

451
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: I didn't expect them to actually do it, but good lord, right.

452
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 4: This is going in reverse.

453
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: I look other things, like you mentioned unintended consequences, things

454
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: like no taxing tips. Like in theory that sounds good.

455
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: In practice, that's going to lead to all kinds of

456
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: I would say, not corruption, but in the vein of

457
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: corruption is there's so many, so much opportunity for people

458
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 2: to pretend that money that they're making is tips, And

459
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: I just think we're heading in such a bad direction.

460
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: I would love and Trump talked about this also on

461
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 2: the trail, so I don't see why this can't be

462
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: one of the plans. But I would love a simplified system,

463
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: a system with a flat tax, a system that is

464
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: fairer to people and just to everyone really, because if

465
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 2: you're paying a flat tax, you're paying a portion of

466
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 2: your income and everybody pays, you know, the same portion.

467
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: It's just crazy that we have Republican Congress and it's

468
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: somehow going to end up just as bad as it

469
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: would with a democratic one.

470
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: With maybe a rise in marginal rates for high earners

471
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: like it's wild complexity in the sort, so we're doing here.

472
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 1: Complexity in the system is a subsidy for those who

473
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: can afford really good accountants, That's what it is. And

474
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: the people who get the people who worry about salt caps,

475
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: the people who know what assault cap is. Those people

476
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: are not like working class people. Okay, those are the

477
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: people they're worried about. Those are the people they're they're serving.

478
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: If we had something simpler, you wouldn't have people having

479
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: to go to the mats for excusing New York property

480
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: tax rates, which is what we're doing.

481
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: I don't know.

482
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: I just think we're we're in deep trouble. If the

483
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen package doesn't get extended, it's probably going to

484
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: have to be extended as part of this ugly big bill,

485
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: and you're going to get a bunch of ugly stuff

486
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: with it.

487
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 4: Will be right back on normally.

488
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: All right, let's leave the listeners with something a little lighter.

489
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: We have a lot of post weekend complaints, A woman

490
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: writes into The New York Times. Yes, they provide a

491
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: lot of our content here on normally, she writes, I've

492
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: always loved my husband, but now that we are older

493
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: and in our sixties, I definitely hate him less. Maybe

494
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have waited, had to wait thirty three years,

495
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: a third of a century to hate my husband less.

496
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: But time has been good to him. And she goes

497
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: on to say that basically he has more time now.

498
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: He's making dinner and making her Martinez when she got home,

499
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: and he's just looking better and all of this, and

500
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: she's enjoying this happy, creative time in his life. But

501
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: the thing is, he seemed pretty good the whole way through,

502
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 2: And as I'm reading this piece, I'm waiting to see

503
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: how he was like just you know, absent and not

504
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 2: helpful to her. But she tells stories where he absolutely

505
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: was a very involved at I mean, like some of

506
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: the things that she criticizes him for. Bruce was also

507
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: very adept at coming home from work after the kids

508
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: had already been tucked into their bunk beds, lights out

509
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: and all that, and rousing them so that he could

510
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: read books to them.

511
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 4: I get it.

512
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: I understand rousing kids. There's like it's something that you

513
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: just don't do. But to read books to them that's

514
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: quite nice. I feel like I feel like maybe that's

515
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 2: something that should be applauded.

516
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 4: It's not like he roused them to watch the next.

517
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: Game to.

518
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 5: Him.

519
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 4: To my husband, No, he roused them to read to them.

520
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: I like it.

521
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So I get where she's coming from with

522
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: some of this, because I'm I do not doubt her

523
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: that she was probably carrying a lot of the load

524
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: when it came to the home and home management and

525
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: kids in the prime of those hard years. He's out

526
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: as a magazine editor and writer. She says, doing a

527
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: lot of events. You know, I get it, networking, it

528
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: probably looks like a lot more fun than what you're

529
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: doing at home. She has the more flexible schedule, and

530
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: so she's picking up a lot of that work, right,

531
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: I get that, But like, some of this is just

532
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: like the way the cookie crumbles everyone. You can't magically

533
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: live in Manhattan as two writers and not have someone

534
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: maybe shouldering a little bit more of the kid's stuff

535
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: while they're more flexible, while this guy goes out and

536
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: has a more traditional nine to five. Like, if you

537
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: want something different, you might have to move to a suburb, right,

538
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: you might make some cuts in other areas. And some

539
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: of this, too, just feels like Season of life stuff,

540
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: where like, of course you both feel better now you

541
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: have fewer stresses, there's less of a grind every day.

542
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: And I would suggest that maybe the fact that she's

543
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: written this piece as her way of communicating this and

544
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: had him edit it for her is maybe.

545
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: Sort of a.

546
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: Diagnosis of what was going on in the thick of

547
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: things as well, because she says, there's one paragraph, I

548
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: wasn't a stay at home mother, but I dropped off

549
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: and picked up my kids from school every day, organized

550
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: their activities, took them to the doctor, bought their clothes,

551
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: kept them fed, homework, bathbad, the whole schmeer. When I

552
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: showed my husband this essay, he wrote in the margins,

553
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: you weren't totally on your own. I dropped off one

554
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: or other of the kids every day, and at least,

555
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: in my memory, got them breakfast every morning.

556
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: The former note is sort of true. The latter is

557
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: a complete fantasy. Okay.

558
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: If the former note is true and he was dropping

559
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: off one or other kid every day, that's a pretty

560
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: substantial thing to leave out.

561
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 3: And also, like, why are we doing it this way?

562
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: Why are we slagging our husband for things that happened

563
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: twenty five years ago?

564
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: In writing, I feel like he's being pretty nice to like,

565
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: very calmly comment in the margins.

566
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 4: He's letting her have her moment.

567
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: I just don't ever see the reverse of this where

568
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: her husband's like, I like my wife so much better

569
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: than I've ever liked her before, because now that the

570
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: kids are out of the house, she gets she goes

571
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: to the gym, so she looks better, and she cooks

572
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: for me and she makes me martini's, and I'm so

573
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: much happier. You know now that now that she's relaxed

574
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: a little bit with her career or whatever, we would

575
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: kill this guy. He would be just slaughtered on the internet.

576
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: And yet this is in the New York Times, like look,

577
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: how look how nice this husband became.

578
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just a lot of a lot of this.

579
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: This type of commentary is a little bit like she

580
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: wants to have it all, but there's not going to

581
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: be a trade off and having it all, even for

582
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: a season of life. She didn't want there to be

583
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: a trade off for having at all. And the truth is,

584
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: I think as you and I embrace, is like, you're

585
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: not going to have it all.

586
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: There are gonna have it all.

587
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: There are going to be trade offs, particularly when you're

588
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: in the thick of raising children and some more of

589
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: it might fall to you and some more of it.

590
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 3: Might fall to your husband. Whatever it is. Like, I

591
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: don't want no dead beats in here, but like.

592
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: There are gonna be situations where you're doing more of

593
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: the child rearing because you're more flexible, because that's your thing, right, Yeah,

594
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: and want to well yeah, I also enjoy doing it.

595
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so but if you want it all, you kind

596
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: of have to accept that some of that's gonna happen.

597
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: That's absolutely right, including.

598
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: The Manhattan place you live in. You know, it's like, yes,

599
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: you made the choices these.

600
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: She even acknowledges like, I know, our life sounds quite rarefied,

601
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: and I'm like it.

602
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 4: Indeed does a little bit, lady, little bit.

603
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: Two writers living in Manhattan, Like, how can we possibly

604
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: make it work?

605
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: She says his industry collapsed at one point, so that's

606
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: why that's why they could do that anymore.

607
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it was, he was.

608
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: This was the heyday of magazine and that was a

609
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: cool life and it existed.

610
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah it's gone, guys, it's gone. Well, thanks for joining

611
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: us on normally normally airs Tuesdays, and Thursdays, and you

612
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: can subscribe.

613
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 4: Anywhere you get your podcasts.

614
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.

615
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally