Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of
Speaker 1: our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any
Speaker 1: of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding
Speaker 1: a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason
Speaker 1: for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been
Speaker 1: remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost
Speaker 1: all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice
Speaker 1: if you had listened to what we're calling the last
Speaker 1: twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the
Speaker 1: music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone
Speaker 1: back to straight audio, so be warned. We sound a
Speaker 1: little different today than we do in what you're about
Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't
Speaker 1: understand you never know stories of things. We simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Oh hey there, Hi, didn't see
Speaker 1: you there, but welcome to the show. We're magic we
Speaker 1: can see through podcast and thanks for joining us here
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, as you probably well know,
Speaker 1: and as of course, on my right it's Devin and
Speaker 1: on her right would beat Joe. I'll point out also
Speaker 1: your left. Yeah, I was gonna go there, but beat well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if this is a circle, yeah, this is kind of
Speaker 1: an awkward shaped circle. But anyway, this is taking sideways
Speaker 1: the podcast and uh, this week we're gonna bring to
Speaker 1: you another story that's got some odd circumstances that I
Speaker 1: found pretty interesting. And this is one that is that
Speaker 1: is dubbed the Valente Disappearance. So for anybody that hasn't
Speaker 1: heard this story before, fasten your seatbelts, put your trays
Speaker 1: in the upright position, and hang on. Is this a
Speaker 1: plane star? This is totally a plane story. But that's
Speaker 1: not just about planes. It's about uf pos, it's about dinosaurs,
Speaker 1: it's about sea monsters, everything. Alright, we're off, sorry away.
Speaker 1: You have got to stop drinking eight glasses of kool
Speaker 1: aid before we start. Alright, so let's let's go ahead
Speaker 1: and start as we always do. Let's give it a
Speaker 1: story here. So the year is and it is October one,
Speaker 1: and the key figure in our story is why a
Speaker 1: twenty year old man by the name of Frederick Velotitch uh,
Speaker 1: and he was piloting a Sesna two L, which is
Speaker 1: just a small single engine aircraft, and he is in
Speaker 1: Australia and he was going to fly across the Bass Strait.
Speaker 1: Weather it was calm, those class skies were clear. There's
Speaker 1: hardly any wins. Everything's fine. It's a three legs or
Speaker 1: at three stop journey. So he makes the first stop.
Speaker 1: Everything's uneventful, and then he leaves from the Morabin Airport
Speaker 1: which is in Melbourne at six nineteen in the evening.
Speaker 1: After takeoff, he follows his flight plan and he goes
Speaker 1: to Cape Ottaway and at seven o'clock he leaves Cape Ottaway,
Speaker 1: so he has a very short john Lands takes off
Speaker 1: again for the second leg. Then the second leg of
Speaker 1: course over water. Yes, because he's going across the best,
Speaker 1: the best straight. Now if anybody hasn't done this, and
Speaker 1: I had to do this, this is on the look
Speaker 1: it up on the map. It's on the southern tip
Speaker 1: of Australia. And Frederick said that he was going to
Speaker 1: go to King Island, which is a very short flight away.
Speaker 1: It's about a thirty minute flight round figure from the
Speaker 1: mainland to the island. Yeah, and then the island is
Speaker 1: you know, it's southeast Australia and the island is halfway
Speaker 1: between Tasmania and the mainland. Yes that I had no
Speaker 1: idea what it was until I started reading up on
Speaker 1: it and I had to go get a map. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I did the same thing. I pulled up Google and
Speaker 1: I was like, please tell me where this is that
Speaker 1: because I'm not I'm not getting it off hand. Yes,
Speaker 1: you are the geography n alright. So uh. Frederick was
Speaker 1: a new pilot. He was relatively inexperienced. He only had
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty hours of logged flight time.
Speaker 1: He only had a student's license, he said. He was.
Speaker 1: So he's a young guy and he's he hasn't done
Speaker 1: a whole lot of flying. Now, there's some strange things
Speaker 1: right off the bat, which is the reason for him
Speaker 1: taking this trip, he told when he logged his flight plan,
Speaker 1: he said that he was going to be picking up
Speaker 1: some passengers on the island and then on King Island,
Speaker 1: and then he was gonna be returning them back to
Speaker 1: the mainland. He told his girlfriend that he was going
Speaker 1: there to pick up crawfish, well crawfish, our passengers, So
Speaker 1: they are that's true. You know you're supposed to lie
Speaker 1: to your girlfriend, right, Yeah, No, you're not supposed to.
Speaker 1: But here's the problem. He never made it to King Island.
Speaker 1: What he never He didn't make it a hundred twenty
Speaker 1: seven miles and he didn't make it. He never arrived
Speaker 1: at the island and was never seen again. Which is
Speaker 1: where things get a little cookie and a little weird
Speaker 1: and a little strange. Because of the fact that he
Speaker 1: was in contact with the Tower in Melbourne via radio.
Speaker 1: He had about a six minute conversation with them prior
Speaker 1: to disappearing. We're gonna now, we're gonna go ahead and
Speaker 1: we're gonna listen to through the joy of the Internet,
Speaker 1: a re enactment of that conversation, not the entire six minutes,
Speaker 1: but it's an abbreviated version, but I will give you
Speaker 1: a good idea of what the conversation was. Recording. No, no,
Speaker 1: there are transcripts of the original recording available, but the
Speaker 1: Australian government holds the actual recording and they've only released
Speaker 1: pieces of it for investigation, for research people to look
Speaker 1: into it and try and figure out some of the
Speaker 1: things that we're going on in it. But they won't
Speaker 1: just put out the entire actual conversation. Why not? Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's a government, and they do
Speaker 1: things like that all the time, and we just can't
Speaker 1: explain why. Okay, that by the way, but here's here's
Speaker 1: the thing. Before we go ahead and listen to the conversation.
Speaker 1: Two things to keep in mind is after his plane disappeared,
Speaker 1: he was supposed to land, he didn't land, and of
Speaker 1: course a search was set out for him to find him.
Speaker 1: That search pasted for seven days. They never found the plane,
Speaker 1: they never found wreckage, and they never found his body.
Speaker 1: So he literally disappeared from the face of the earth.
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead, now, before we get too far ahead
Speaker 1: of ourselves, let's listen to the actual recording or this,
Speaker 1: I should say, the actual re enactment of the recording
Speaker 1: of that conversation. Sierra Juliet. Is there any non traffic?
Speaker 1: But that's five thousand step. No non traffic seeks to
Speaker 1: be a lie. The aircraft the five thousand states, what
Speaker 1: type of aircraft is this? I cannot concern it safely
Speaker 1: like landing line. The aircraft has just passed out of
Speaker 1: me that at least a thousand state above. Is there
Speaker 1: any airforce aircraft in the vicinity? No known aircraft in
Speaker 1: the vicinity thanks to be playing some sort of game.
Speaker 1: He's flowing over me, well, the Sierra Juliet. It's not
Speaker 1: an aircraft. It's can you describe the aircraft as it's
Speaker 1: flying past. It's a long shape and unidentified. It has
Speaker 1: such speed. It's before me right now Melbourne now large
Speaker 1: would the the object things like a stationary What it's
Speaker 1: doing right now is all the king. The thing is
Speaker 1: deorbiting on top of me. It's also I've got a
Speaker 1: green light and a sort of metallic blood. It's shiny
Speaker 1: on the outside. It's just vanished. That's going to acraft
Speaker 1: carsing on top of me. Again, that's covering and it's
Speaker 1: not an aircraft. And that is the last that everybody,
Speaker 1: anybody heard from him. He said it was passing over
Speaker 1: him about a thousand feet above, going very fast, and
Speaker 1: then it was orbiting him, and he described it as
Speaker 1: being long and metallic, having or bright lights. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if it says it in this, but I
Speaker 1: did read this in some of the transcripts. It also
Speaker 1: indicated that it had one bright green light on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I heard that. What were his last words.
Speaker 1: The last thing that he said is it's hovering and
Speaker 1: it's not an aircraft. So that's that's that's exactly right,
Speaker 1: and that's where everybody goes. Now, here's the thing that's
Speaker 1: not in this re enactment is at the end of
Speaker 1: the recording or the official transcript, there's an additional seventeen
Speaker 1: seconds of sound. It's been referred to as metal scraping noises,
Speaker 1: and then it just the radio completely cuts off and
Speaker 1: the signal is gone. Sort of noises associated with the
Speaker 1: plane crashing into the water. It's possible they've they've done
Speaker 1: a lot of investigation into it and there's been no
Speaker 1: conclusion evidence of what it actually is. They can't say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's metal bending and up on impact because if you
Speaker 1: think about an impact is quite quick. Seventeen seconds is
Speaker 1: kind of a long time. That seems like a really
Speaker 1: long time. But no, let's see you hit it right
Speaker 1: on the head, Devin. First thing, it's UFO. Well, okay, first,
Speaker 1: that's the first thing everybody jumps to with this story.
Speaker 1: So I mean what I mean by that is that
Speaker 1: by definition, they said there's no aircraft in that area, right,
Speaker 1: so by definition it is an unidentified flying object. I
Speaker 1: don't know that I'm willing to say, like face aliens,
Speaker 1: but it definitely, you know, to go a little off topic,
Speaker 1: They've released a bunch of stuff from the Area fifty
Speaker 1: one Roswell information and they are saying, you know, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where we're testing all of our sealth stuff. So
Speaker 1: like all these you know, UFO reports, Yeah, they were
Speaker 1: legit because we were testing these self bombers and you
Speaker 1: know people, they looked like nothing anybody had ever seen before. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not willing to say aliens, but I
Speaker 1: am willing to say ufl and I would I would
Speaker 1: follow along with that he does. It's and that was
Speaker 1: one of the very things that I thought of, is
Speaker 1: it smacks very much of being an Area fifty one
Speaker 1: kind of situation. Something's being tested, the tower doesn't know
Speaker 1: about it because it's top secret, and something happens, whether
Speaker 1: it's you know, the pilot of this this unidentified plane
Speaker 1: makes a mistake and causes him to go down, or
Speaker 1: he gets distracted and panics and something goes the wrong
Speaker 1: because he's seen it. Now. Yeah, yeah, you know, actually
Speaker 1: maybe they just use a disintegrator money. You don't you
Speaker 1: don't know that they abducted him. Well, and everybody says, well,
Speaker 1: it must have been an alien and they must have
Speaker 1: abducted him straight from the airplane. And then, you know,
Speaker 1: so that's what the noise was was when he was
Speaker 1: being brought in for lack of a better term, the
Speaker 1: tractor being is it was his plane making all this noise.
Speaker 1: R was pulled through the middle of the plane, holed
Speaker 1: into the craft. I don't mean it's funny, is when
Speaker 1: I read the transcript, this is a little dorkish of me,
Speaker 1: and I admit this, but the description of it. Do
Speaker 1: you know what the first thing I thought of when
Speaker 1: I read the description of the aircraft that he described.
Speaker 1: Do you remember back in the eighties the Disney movie
Speaker 1: Slide of the Navigator. No, it was Flight of the
Speaker 1: Navigator was a kid in the late seventies who was
Speaker 1: quote unquote accidentally abducted by a sentient alien ship and
Speaker 1: he has his crazy adventure and it sounded so much
Speaker 1: like it to me what I remember seeing in that movie.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to tell you that you've just aged yourself.
Speaker 1: I know that. So his time, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So here's the other weird things is, of course, as
Speaker 1: the story broke out, a ton of people came forward
Speaker 1: with reports of having seen something along the coastline lights
Speaker 1: in the sky that didn't make any sense. With all
Speaker 1: of these reports, of course, I say the same thing
Speaker 1: which everybody yea, yeah, yeah, exactly, except that in some
Speaker 1: of the sites, and this is the problem sometimes with
Speaker 1: these sites, that you don't know how good their research is.
Speaker 1: Some places were saying at least a half dozen to
Speaker 1: ten of those reports happened prior to him taking off
Speaker 1: on the flight. I also think I read somewhere that
Speaker 1: there was a guy who had set up a tripod
Speaker 1: on the coast and was taking pictures and there would
Speaker 1: have been no you knows as he was flying. Was
Speaker 1: twenty minutes before he disappeared or something, right, yes, and
Speaker 1: those are known as the Manifold photos. Yeah, Roy Manifold.
Speaker 1: But so the pictures showed something, right, Yeah, they do.
Speaker 1: And I looked him up and I was very actually
Speaker 1: find one copies of one of the two photos. So
Speaker 1: here's for everybody who doesn't know. Manifold was twenty minutes
Speaker 1: before voluntees took off. He went ahead and set up
Speaker 1: his tripod and he set it on a timer for
Speaker 1: his camera to take six photos of the sunset going
Speaker 1: down into the ocean. Everything was fine. He wouldn't got
Speaker 1: the film to fill up. And photos number four and
Speaker 1: six supposedly show some kind of craft rising out of
Speaker 1: the ocean and then taking off. I can only find
Speaker 1: on the internet. Photo number six, the one that shows
Speaker 1: this funny, weird, blurry oject which I've got to be
Speaker 1: on a looks like a beetle or a nati with
Speaker 1: its wing in motion. To me, do you think maybe
Speaker 1: something landed on his lands? I wonder, excepted they say
Speaker 1: photo number four had something coming out of the water,
Speaker 1: and I can't find that photo. Yeah. So what I read, um,
Speaker 1: when I did read about this, was that they sent
Speaker 1: the photos to a bunch of different people who analyze
Speaker 1: photos for a living um and some that specifically were
Speaker 1: people who validate UFO photos. You know, there are people
Speaker 1: who are like, yes, this is actually UFO, so they're
Speaker 1: kind of you know, pro the whole UFO thing, And
Speaker 1: they said, we can't these photos are blurry, you know,
Speaker 1: it was. It's an old camera, just like to the sun.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like crack equality. Do you think maybe
Speaker 1: if it wasn't the UFO, do you think perhaps it
Speaker 1: was the cracking the cracking. It could have been the
Speaker 1: cracking dude. Maybe yeah, maybe so right there, So UFO
Speaker 1: that is the number one go to explanation that you
Speaker 1: will find whenever you do any any searching around. And
Speaker 1: there are I kid you not a dozen other crazy
Speaker 1: UFO stories. And what I mean crazy is and somebody's nuts,
Speaker 1: as in wow, where did this come from? Kind of
Speaker 1: stories that are connected to it, saying that she's shown
Speaker 1: up twenty and thirty years later and now he's living
Speaker 1: in Spain and he has an age. But that's the Internet.
Speaker 1: That's the hard part. The Internet is just right with
Speaker 1: I've read some of these things and it sounded like
Speaker 1: the Sci Fi Channel movie of the week kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And as we've said on this show before, I don't
Speaker 1: poo poo the fact that there's got to be something
Speaker 1: out there. I'm not gonna say that there isn't because
Speaker 1: that's just foolish. But some of these stories I think
Speaker 1: are a little far festered. I think somebody might have
Speaker 1: written on so on that note, Hi, alien over Lord's
Speaker 1: coming to take over. No. I think that the only
Speaker 1: reason that I would give this Like my big problem
Speaker 1: with saying, oh, you know, he crashed or oh, you know,
Speaker 1: any kind of like, you know, really reasonable explanation is
Speaker 1: that they, like planes don't just disappear into the sea usually,
Speaker 1: I mean they can, but usually there's like some wreckage, right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't just like cleanly all think down there's something
Speaker 1: floating or I assumed there were like floatable things. And
Speaker 1: so only the only reason that I like can understand
Speaker 1: why everybody says, yeah, he was abducted is that, as
Speaker 1: far as I understand it, they didn't find any trace
Speaker 1: of anything happening. That's not exactly correct. Okay, So and
Speaker 1: so here's a couple of things that I did come across. Okay,
Speaker 1: first off, when the initial search and rescue was going on,
Speaker 1: they did so one of the search planes or boats
Speaker 1: it doesn't specify, which found an oil slick that appeared
Speaker 1: to be aviation fuel. Now, the problem, well that you know,
Speaker 1: that's the problem. I have read both directions that it
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't aviation fuel. Again, this is over time.
Speaker 1: This happened in seventy eight, so we're talking thirty five
Speaker 1: years ago, and these things get kind of mucked up
Speaker 1: as time goes on. Here's the here's the other thing.
Speaker 1: Five years after he disappeared in that straight. The wreckage
Speaker 1: of a Cessna was found, and it had partial serial
Speaker 1: numbers that could be recovered that were they were similar
Speaker 1: to his, but it wasn't a full serial number of
Speaker 1: the plane, so they couldn't say this is definitively his plane.
Speaker 1: That's that that model of Cessna. I'm pretty sure probably
Speaker 1: most Cessnas and most light aircraft like that are designed
Speaker 1: to be able to float for several minutes before they
Speaker 1: go down so that you can get out. They're a
Speaker 1: light aircraft, they're not super heavy. The other problem is
Speaker 1: is the current in that straight is pretty strong, and
Speaker 1: it's very likely that if the plane hits, floats for
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes and gets caught in the current,
Speaker 1: it's not going to sink straight to the bottom. It's
Speaker 1: gonna getleft sideways and you know, wind up somewhere towards you.
Speaker 1: I assume like where they're like flotation devices or like
Speaker 1: there weekend or anything like that, and those things are
Speaker 1: designed to escape from an airplane when it crashes and
Speaker 1: survive right up to the top. I don't think the
Speaker 1: beacons are designed to escape and float, though I've been
Speaker 1: I've been a little in small airplanes and usually the
Speaker 1: beacon by the black box. I think that's what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. They have beacons to which are basically radio beacons.
Speaker 1: That there's the one. The ones that I've seen have
Speaker 1: a toggle switch on the top which is an on
Speaker 1: off switch, and then they have a little rail above
Speaker 1: that with a weight on it. So you go smashing
Speaker 1: into the mountain side or whatever that that wait slams
Speaker 1: forward and toggles the radio on, trips it on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that those ones that I've seen are securely fast. Sure.
Speaker 1: You know, all my experience with water beacons is on
Speaker 1: a ship, so that's more made to float. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I guess I just assumed they were all like that.
Speaker 1: But those are the only things that were found. That's
Speaker 1: that's the hard thing is that there's one spot of
Speaker 1: fuel and partial wreckage found five years later that is
Speaker 1: not a perfect match. Well, then we go on to
Speaker 1: the other theories, because there are other theories there are
Speaker 1: in the pilot error. There are pilot error is indeed
Speaker 1: the next theory that we've got. Frederick wasn't an experienced pilot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a very young pilot. Here's a little backstory
Speaker 1: on the young man he had applied to be in
Speaker 1: the Royal Australian Air Force, so the r a F.
Speaker 1: He wanted to fly for his country's air force. He
Speaker 1: took the test, and it's a five section test. The
Speaker 1: first time he took it he failed all five sections.
Speaker 1: He took it again, he failed three of the five sections.
Speaker 1: So he may not as much as he wanted to
Speaker 1: be a pilot, he may not have had the aptitude
Speaker 1: to be a pilot. Sounds like that he had applied
Speaker 1: he was trying to get his commercial license, which is
Speaker 1: why he was doing all of this, this flying on
Speaker 1: his own incessnas and small planes, because he wanted to
Speaker 1: get a commercials license. For this particular flight, he was
Speaker 1: going to have to do what is called instrument only flying.
Speaker 1: When you fly over land in the day, you can
Speaker 1: see the ground, you don't have to rely on your
Speaker 1: instruments as heavily, but when it's nighttime and or you're
Speaker 1: over the water, you're wholly dependent on using your instruments.
Speaker 1: He had never been in a situation where he had
Speaker 1: done instrument only flying, so that's that's a knock against him.
Speaker 1: Hopefully he had been paying attention though, you know, the
Speaker 1: things like you know, there's things in the dashboard of
Speaker 1: your of your cockpit artifici and things like that. This
Speaker 1: is true, but there's there's a couple of other problems.
Speaker 1: Evidently was a bit of a maverick. Not to make
Speaker 1: a top gun reference, but he was a bit of
Speaker 1: a maverick. He had been in trouble several times in
Speaker 1: an airplane. And by been in trouble, I mean he
Speaker 1: got in trouble with the Australian version of what we
Speaker 1: would consider in the United States, the f A A uh.
Speaker 1: He had flown into restricted air airspace before, which is
Speaker 1: a no no. And he knowingly and intentionally flown into
Speaker 1: cloud banks, which is not a good idea in an
Speaker 1: airplane because you don't know if anybody else is coming,
Speaker 1: especially if you're on just kind of a training run.
Speaker 1: That is actually something that that country will pursue and
Speaker 1: legally you can get into some really big trouble. And
Speaker 1: they were investigating him for having pulled those stunts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and by the way, now that's that's kind of a
Speaker 1: dumb thing to do. I mean, especially when you're a
Speaker 1: novice pilot. Flying into a cloud not a good idea. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's not the smartest way to go about it.
Speaker 1: But okay, I remember being twenty and thinking that I
Speaker 1: had the world by it short it might have just
Speaker 1: assumed I'm so good. So that might have been part
Speaker 1: of what got him in the end, is that when
Speaker 1: he went on this flight, it was in the evening.
Speaker 1: By the time he was heading out over the water,
Speaker 1: it was dusk, it was getting dark, it was late,
Speaker 1: so he didn't have a whole lot of visual cues
Speaker 1: to reference upon. So if he's not quite paying attention,
Speaker 1: he could have gotten himself into a spot of trouble.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna actually listen to something that I found
Speaker 1: which is a great thing for pilots and small craft.
Speaker 1: This is called a hundred seventy eight Seconds to Live
Speaker 1: and it details how a pilot can quite quickly in
Speaker 1: a situation where they can't see, get themselves into a
Speaker 1: lot of trouble and quite likely kill themselves. This what
Speaker 1: we're about to listen to, is actually what happened to
Speaker 1: JFK JR. I don't know if anybody remembers, but that's
Speaker 1: what was at five eight years ago. It's been about
Speaker 1: that long, hasn't it. He crashed a Sesta, and they
Speaker 1: believe it was the same situation as we're gonna listen
Speaker 1: to here in uh In this little video, the sky
Speaker 1: is overcast and the visibility poor. That purported eight kilometer
Speaker 1: visibility looks more like three. And you can't judge the
Speaker 1: height of the cloud. Your altimeter says you're at one thousand,
Speaker 1: five hundred feet, but your map tells you there's local
Speaker 1: terrain as high as one thousand, two hundred feet. There
Speaker 1: might even be a tower nearby. Because you're not sure
Speaker 1: just how far off course you are, but you've flown
Speaker 1: into worse weather than this, so you press on. You
Speaker 1: find yourself unconsciously easing back just a bit on the
Speaker 1: controls to clear those none too imaginary towers. With no warning,
Speaker 1: you're in the soup. You peer so hard into the
Speaker 1: milky white mist that your eyes hurt. You fight the
Speaker 1: feeling in your stomach. You swallow, only to find your
Speaker 1: mouth dry. Now you realize you should have waited for
Speaker 1: better weather. The meeting was important, but not that important.
Speaker 1: Somewhere a voice is say you should have turned back.
Speaker 1: You now have one hundred and seventy eight seconds to live.
Speaker 1: Your aircraft feeds on an even keel, but your compass
Speaker 1: turns slowly. You push your rudder pedal and add pressure
Speaker 1: to the controls to stop the turn, but this feels unnatural,
Speaker 1: so you quickly return the controls to their original position.
Speaker 1: That feels better, but now your compass is turning a
Speaker 1: little faster and your air speed is increasing slightly. You
Speaker 1: scan your instrument panel for help, but you don't find any.
Speaker 1: It all looks unfamiliar. You're sure this is just a
Speaker 1: bad spot you'll break out in a few minutes. But
Speaker 1: you don't have a few minutes. You now have one
Speaker 1: hundred seconds to live. You glass at your altimeter and
Speaker 1: are shocked to see it unwinding. You're already down to
Speaker 1: one thousand, two hundred eat. Instinctively, you pull back on
Speaker 1: the controls, but the altimeter still unwinds. The engine is
Speaker 1: into the red, and the airspeeds almost there too. You
Speaker 1: have forty five seconds to live. Now you're sweating and shaking.
Speaker 1: There must be something wrong with the controls. Pulling back
Speaker 1: only moves that airspeed indicator deep into the red. You
Speaker 1: can hear the wind tearing at the aircraft. You have
Speaker 1: ten seconds to live. Suddenly you see the ground the
Speaker 1: trees rush up at you. You can see the horizon
Speaker 1: if you turn your head far enough, but it's at
Speaker 1: an unusual angle. You're almost inverted. You open your mouth
Speaker 1: to scream, and that is the end. Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: minus ten seconds to live. Yes, So what what what
Speaker 1: this is saying is that? And it took me a
Speaker 1: couple of lessons to really get a grasp on it
Speaker 1: because I never flown a plane. But basically, and correct me, Joe,
Speaker 1: if you if you took this differently when you because
Speaker 1: I know you've listened to this one prior to to today.
Speaker 1: Is what's happening is a pilot is essentially going into
Speaker 1: a tap, into a spin and diving downwards, getting inverted
Speaker 1: and then going downwards. Is that how you how you
Speaker 1: understood this? Yeah? Essentially you can go uh And I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if they're talking about going into a tail
Speaker 1: spin or just getting disoriented and inverting your plane. I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of what he was talking. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's inverted and then and then you think that you're
Speaker 1: pulling back to go up, but you're driving, but you're
Speaker 1: actually yeah, yeah, actually, and so that's why your altimeter
Speaker 1: continues to unwine even faster even though you think you're
Speaker 1: trying to gain altitude. Uh. And you would think you
Speaker 1: would be losing air speed, but suddenly instead you're losing
Speaker 1: up student gaining air speed. So so something's wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you would think, I mean, if you give the
Speaker 1: pilot long enough to think about it, you probably think
Speaker 1: eventually figure it out and say, oh, you know what,
Speaker 1: I bet I'm upside down. And then but if you
Speaker 1: don't have that long to figure it out, that's problem. Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's where this ties into the story. Okay, I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, I don't know a whole
Speaker 1: lot about airplanes, but I do think that don't these
Speaker 1: Sessna's have like a fail safe on that, Like, aren't
Speaker 1: they made to not be able to fly upside down
Speaker 1: for extended periods? You're correct, they do. Here's something that
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about so far. In the recording, uh
Speaker 1: from Frederick and the tower. Near the end, he reported
Speaker 1: the engine running roughs and that he was going to
Speaker 1: head towards the island to land because he was having
Speaker 1: engine trouble. It's thought that he may have become disoriented
Speaker 1: inverted the plane which was killing the engine. Now this
Speaker 1: thing that he saw flying around him. It was a
Speaker 1: reported to be an exceptionally still old night, no wind,
Speaker 1: hardly any waves. There's been people who were there that
Speaker 1: night said it was kind of an unusual night. You
Speaker 1: could actually see the sky reflected in the ocean, So
Speaker 1: he may very well have been seeing his own reflection.
Speaker 1: Was there a green light on that Sessna? Cessnas do
Speaker 1: have colored lights on them, Yes, they have white and
Speaker 1: they have colored lights, So he may have been seeing
Speaker 1: his own reflection. So he was saying it was toying
Speaker 1: with him, and as he was turning, the reflection was
Speaker 1: going away. You know if you think about how the
Speaker 1: angle of the reflection would be. So it may have
Speaker 1: been that he had inverted his plane, and then of
Speaker 1: course that would kill the fuel supply. I've seen some
Speaker 1: reports that say, well, this went on too long for
Speaker 1: the plane to been able to run inverted, But it's
Speaker 1: it's hard to say exactly what happened, but it's thought
Speaker 1: that he that maybe where the pilot air came in
Speaker 1: is he may have flipped upside down own and not
Speaker 1: known what was going on and tried to get out
Speaker 1: of there and instead drove the plane into Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess my other problem with that is, uh, the sounds
Speaker 1: at the end of the recording, like where that would
Speaker 1: have or the transmission with you would have come from
Speaker 1: if I mean, it seems like the first thing if
Speaker 1: you hit the water, the first thing that goes out,
Speaker 1: as communications would think. But you know, but even then,
Speaker 1: like would like, does drowning sound like metallic sounds for
Speaker 1: seventeen seconds? I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for a second. Okay,
Speaker 1: Let's let's say that this is the correct theory that
Speaker 1: he crashed into the ocean, whether it be inverted or not,
Speaker 1: and instead of crashing head first, he skips across the
Speaker 1: water like a stone. That's going to make a lot
Speaker 1: of metal rending noises that I'm pretty sure he was.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that he was using a
Speaker 1: handheld cocky talkie. Pilots usually have a headset, so it
Speaker 1: may have been that it was picking up those noises
Speaker 1: like the wings and the body getting The only other question, right,
Speaker 1: is that, like, Okay, you invert your plane, you realize
Speaker 1: what's going on. You hit the water the first time, right,
Speaker 1: You've got an open mic that's transmitting your metallic sounds right,
Speaker 1: what are you saying as the pilot right, like hit
Speaker 1: the water this bloody plane like upside down, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna die, you know, Like there's definitely at
Speaker 1: least one right, like it doesn't happen, you know, And
Speaker 1: maybe he's like one of those people who goes quiet,
Speaker 1: but you say something, right, you say, oh, it's not
Speaker 1: a play, and then you like hit the water the
Speaker 1: first time. If you've got seventeen seconds of open mic
Speaker 1: time of transmission, you say something at least once when
Speaker 1: you realize you're gonna die. If he was conscious, I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: he may have been knocked out. It's gone out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I mean. And that's that's this
Speaker 1: particular theory. There's more theories. Yeah, well let me let
Speaker 1: me run a theory by you guys. So somebody said
Speaker 1: that the metallic sounding sounds were actually sounds that could
Speaker 1: have been caused by somebody fingering a mic. Basically, somebody
Speaker 1: somebody king the mic, happing the mic. We know a
Speaker 1: few things about this guy. He was definitely deep into UFOs.
Speaker 1: He was in it was it was a big believer
Speaker 1: in UFOs. We know that a lot of research on UFOs.
Speaker 1: Next up, we know that we know that his his
Speaker 1: dream of being a pilot was in danger being over.
Speaker 1: I'm not and I'm not suggesting suicide, but his his
Speaker 1: his his dreams. Yeah, there is a theory about suicide.
Speaker 1: But I have a different theory um, which is that
Speaker 1: he took for life fest that he didn't need. So
Speaker 1: he might have been planning to discipline and take his
Speaker 1: own death. Now, being a somebody really in the UFOs,
Speaker 1: he maybe thought he would at least create a legend
Speaker 1: for himself before he before he disappeared and started his
Speaker 1: life over somewhere. He has four life vests, none of
Speaker 1: which he was wearing, I'm sure. So as he's preparing
Speaker 1: to go down, he number one has he has a
Speaker 1: long conversation about a phony UFO incident with these guys
Speaker 1: stick and he's gonna like use this thing to like
Speaker 1: Joel the powers to be, to pay more attention to
Speaker 1: people like him who believe in UFOs and paying more
Speaker 1: attention to the UFO thing. And then his last cryptic
Speaker 1: transmission is it's not an aircraft. And then there's nothing
Speaker 1: but noises at that. At this point, what he's doing
Speaker 1: is he's putting out a life vest as he prepares
Speaker 1: to ditch, and doing so, if he's wearing a headset,
Speaker 1: he's inadvertently keying the mic repeatedly because he's because he's
Speaker 1: doing because he's putting our life vest in a very
Speaker 1: tight and close area. So he's repeatedly keying the mic.
Speaker 1: And then after day he shuts the radio off, takes
Speaker 1: the plane down and ditch. Is it, maybe survives, maybe doesn't.
Speaker 1: Discipline gets out of the plane with his his three
Speaker 1: spare life preservers to help get him to shore. And
Speaker 1: so there it is mystery salt and Joe has hit
Speaker 1: yet another theory on the head. Joe is three for
Speaker 1: three tonight, ladies and gentlemen. That is a theory is
Speaker 1: that he realized that what he wanted to do in
Speaker 1: life was endangered and he was probably gonna go to
Speaker 1: jail on the other way to get out of it.
Speaker 1: The variant that I heard on it was that he
Speaker 1: actually turned around and never even flew out over the water.
Speaker 1: He actually flew to another airport somewhere and landed this right.
Speaker 1: We had radars and stuff, right, yes, but he not
Speaker 1: on the radar. He was on radar over the straight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but wait, here's the thing. He topped off the tank
Speaker 1: before he crossed the strait. The fuel capacity on that
Speaker 1: particular plane would have allowed him after from the point
Speaker 1: that he was last in contact, he could have flown
Speaker 1: another eight d kilometers. Okay, but did he disappear from radar?
Speaker 1: He did? He just like decide that, Oh, now's when
Speaker 1: I fly below the radar, And that's quite possible. Is
Speaker 1: that he dropped below radar. And there again, this is
Speaker 1: one of those things after it all comes out, everybody
Speaker 1: comes from oh I saw some crazy little plane making
Speaker 1: a funny landing at this place. Yeah, there have been
Speaker 1: reports that somebody landing a plane around that same time
Speaker 1: somewhere else on the mainland that wasn't supposed to be there.
Speaker 1: That was at an airstrip though correct, I think it was,
Speaker 1: But it was. It was such a little blurb, but
Speaker 1: I couldn't find it corroborated anywhere else that I can't
Speaker 1: put a lot of stock in it. Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: think probably landing in an airstrip, it's like, well you can,
Speaker 1: you can disappear off and started your new life over again,
Speaker 1: but the airplane is still sitting there. Yes, you know, so,
Speaker 1: and he could have led it on a remote highway,
Speaker 1: but and then and then burned the plane. Here's a
Speaker 1: theory that then continues on with maybe it was a hoax,
Speaker 1: And this one is not popular with his family. His father, Guido,
Speaker 1: for years has said that if something happened to my son,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be that he was subducted by a
Speaker 1: UFO basically, and it's very sad. It's a father's last
Speaker 1: attempt to make sure that his son is still alive.
Speaker 1: So there's there's a heart wrenching factory. Well, he hopes
Speaker 1: that his son is sowhere with the aliens and he's returned. Someday,
Speaker 1: someday we'll see him again. And he's actually said someday
Speaker 1: I'll see I know he'll come back and we'll see
Speaker 1: him again. So but here's the thing. Let me point
Speaker 1: out again, there were when his story initially hit or
Speaker 1: when he logged his light plane, he said he was
Speaker 1: picking up passengers and then he was going to get
Speaker 1: or get some office. We never knew exactly which what
Speaker 1: it was. There were never any passengers and no crawfish
Speaker 1: had been ordered. So the whole story of why he
Speaker 1: made this flight is kind of soft. There's been people
Speaker 1: who have said, well, you know, it's quite possible he
Speaker 1: was running drugs, and it's quite possible that he was
Speaker 1: in trouble with the people that he was running drugs
Speaker 1: with and that he was trying to escape. And that
Speaker 1: goes along with the theory that Joe put up, which
Speaker 1: is that he was ditching the plane to get away
Speaker 1: and start his life over, whether it be to get
Speaker 1: away from whoever or for whatever reason. There's also the
Speaker 1: theory that if this story of somebody seeing assessment of
Speaker 1: landing on some remote land landing strip is true, it
Speaker 1: may have been that he did this as a gag,
Speaker 1: lands with his drug contacts, something goes wrong and he
Speaker 1: disappears because they make people disappear, and they go, well,
Speaker 1: we gotta plan here, we gotta get rid of that too.
Speaker 1: Let's throw that in the car crusher. So there's a
Speaker 1: possibility that that could have happened as well. That's I
Speaker 1: feel like those are pretty good theories, although you know,
Speaker 1: the the only problem I have with that particular theory
Speaker 1: is that he does this as a gag and then
Speaker 1: and then turns around and flies off to make the
Speaker 1: drug Rendevoo somewhere after, just like you know, big time,
Speaker 1: putting himself on the radar and attracting a lot of
Speaker 1: attention to himself. Then he goes off to meet his buddies,
Speaker 1: you know, and transact the drug thing. It's like, that's
Speaker 1: not a low profile behavior. Well, people don't always make
Speaker 1: the decisions, and the family does not, like they get
Speaker 1: very upset. Actually, and actually when this comes out, there's
Speaker 1: really you know, and there really isn't any evidence is
Speaker 1: there that he was involved in There's there's no evidence
Speaker 1: to support it whatsoever. It's just just got another theory.
Speaker 1: We've grabbed this point and this point and that we've
Speaker 1: got and let's link them up, which is a lot
Speaker 1: of what this story's theories are so well so far.
Speaker 1: The final one, which again Joe touched on, was it
Speaker 1: may have been suicide. He may have decided that I
Speaker 1: can't be a pilot and I can't be a commercial pilot,
Speaker 1: and I can't be in the R a F. And
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm done. I quit. There's no behavior to
Speaker 1: support that. He seemed like a happy guy. He's nothing
Speaker 1: indicated to anybody that that's what was going on with him.
Speaker 1: But it's possible. I you know, the thing that I
Speaker 1: you kind of always see with them people who really
Speaker 1: want to kill themselves, is I feel like they're usually
Speaker 1: really happy, like you. They appear often the people who
Speaker 1: are like really going to go through with it. Why
Speaker 1: would they be sad anymore because they know they're going
Speaker 1: to go kill themselves. Yeah, there's an end, is insight.
Speaker 1: We know we're happily going towards. It's very true possibility,
Speaker 1: you know. Or they're really good at pretending or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, they hide it really well. So I don't
Speaker 1: know that maybe a and I don't know either, But
Speaker 1: that's that's the end of the theories that we have.
Speaker 1: It's it's aliens, it's pilot air, or it's a hoax,
Speaker 1: and there's variants on every one of those, and we
Speaker 1: have no idea which one it is, and probably never
Speaker 1: will well not necessarily. Um, this guy, if he's still alive,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'm sure he is, because here and
Speaker 1: is here is four p FD has probably made it
Speaker 1: to too short Tasmania or Bear Island, wherever the hell
Speaker 1: he win. It's probably a lot somewhere, and he's probably
Speaker 1: shortly going to be listening to this podcast. Yeah, very well,
Speaker 1: any just decided I want the hell yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come out. I'm gonna come out of the closet. That
Speaker 1: could happen. And by the way, by the way, you
Speaker 1: are totally welcome to be on our show. We'll do Yes,
Speaker 1: we love following up interview. You have to get in
Speaker 1: contact with us, Yes, you do, because we can't find you.
Speaker 1: Nobody else has no. Well, that's uh, that's all I've
Speaker 1: got on this story. Anybody else got any little bits
Speaker 1: of pieces you want to you wanna profer on this? No,
Speaker 1: I'm happy with this. I think they're a lot of
Speaker 1: really great Yeah, there's a lot of Yeah, they all
Speaker 1: have a big question mark after them. I don't think
Speaker 1: any of them are sound enough by themselves that you
Speaker 1: can say, yeah, I was definitely probably that one, which
Speaker 1: I like, Yeah, that's good, that's good. But I think
Speaker 1: that I would like to ask this question. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I don't know if you know this or not.
Speaker 1: So he tells the people at the airport when you
Speaker 1: which is not true. He tells his girlfriend that he's
Speaker 1: picking up crayfish. Now, I presume that he told her
Speaker 1: that because she wanted to come along for the ride,
Speaker 1: and he told her there was gonna be hauling back
Speaker 1: a whole lot of crayfish and there would be no room,
Speaker 1: and that would be the plane would way too much.
Speaker 1: It's funny that you ask that. I found one source
Speaker 1: that is completely unsubstantiated that said that his girlfriend had
Speaker 1: been with him on every flight that he had taken,
Speaker 1: the entire hundred and fifty hours of flight time that
Speaker 1: he had logged, she had been in the passenger seat
Speaker 1: with him, and that she was not in the plane
Speaker 1: in this particular instance. And there is again I don't
Speaker 1: know where this came from. It was on something I found.
Speaker 1: It was just again an itty bitty blurb that I
Speaker 1: could never find anywhere else and never substantiate that. A
Speaker 1: week later, she showed up at some bed and breakfast
Speaker 1: hotel near where they lived and asked for him, expecting
Speaker 1: to find him there, and when the proprietor of establishments like, no,
Speaker 1: we we don't how do you buy that by that
Speaker 1: name here? But I think I know that from the news.
Speaker 1: And she was visibly distraught and very upset, and then
Speaker 1: she left and that's the end of it. So it it.
Speaker 1: I don't know where were you going with this? Because
Speaker 1: it was it made it out as if she expected
Speaker 1: him to be there as normal. I have a new
Speaker 1: theory now, girls who are that kind of girlfriend who
Speaker 1: won't let you do anything that you want to do
Speaker 1: and you just want out so bad, but you just
Speaker 1: you don't know how to You don't want to hurt
Speaker 1: their feelings. I think that's what happened. He was just like,
Speaker 1: I get away, so it is a hoax, but it
Speaker 1: was to get away from the crazy girlfriends. We've got it.
Speaker 1: He was like, no, okay, listen, I'm gonna fake all
Speaker 1: of this UFO stuff. It's gonna be awesome. You're gonna
Speaker 1: hear about it all in the news, and then you
Speaker 1: come meet me in the right and bed and breakfast
Speaker 1: next to our house. I'll be hiding out there under
Speaker 1: this fake name, but you know, I'll give them my
Speaker 1: real name too, so you can ask for that. That's fine,
Speaker 1: because that's totally normal. I'm gonna call myself Viper six.
Speaker 1: That's for Viper six. And uh she shows up and
Speaker 1: he's like, uh, got away with it clean this time? Yeah? Maybe. Well,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, if you have any theories of your own,
Speaker 1: please feel free to let us know. You can always
Speaker 1: go ahead and just send us an email with your theories,
Speaker 1: your thoughts, your concerns, complaints, or any other insights that
Speaker 1: you might have. Uh. That email that you can get
Speaker 1: ahold of us at is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. And as always, some of the links because
Speaker 1: as always, we can't put them all up because that's
Speaker 1: the Internet. It's all of the Internet, and I can't
Speaker 1: host it all on our website, but you can find
Speaker 1: some of these links on our website. That website is
Speaker 1: of course, Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. And with that,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and sign this one off, and
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we will talk to you next week.
Speaker 1: Every believe in the UFOs. I want to believe, Yeah,