WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Biometrics: Digital Fingerprinting

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio and

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<v Speaker 1>a love of all things tech. It is time for

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<v Speaker 1>a classic episode. This episode originally aired on April two, fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>It is called Biometrics Digital Fingerprinting Enjoy. We thought, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we should talk about biometrics, and then we started looking

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<v Speaker 1>into it and getting really excited, and then we realized, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot to talk about, right. You know. Biometrics,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, being the measurable biological or behavioral characteristics used

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<v Speaker 1>for for any given individual. Yes, this is what how

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI says, this is what the biometrics are. So, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's one of those things where we knew

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<v Speaker 1>it was a huge time bick and we decided to

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<v Speaker 1>narrow it down. So today we're specifically focusing on your fingerprints. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>not your fingerprints, I mean, I mean everyone's fingerprints. No,

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<v Speaker 1>see the person sitting next to you, No, not that one,

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<v Speaker 1>the other one, that person's fingerprints. That's that's the one

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<v Speaker 1>we're concentrating on. So yeah, because everyone has has different fingerprints,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean like everyone, right, and this is something that

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<v Speaker 1>has been known for a while but then forgotten and

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<v Speaker 1>then rediscovered. So we're going to talk about that because

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of funny. So these days we think of

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<v Speaker 1>biometrics as sort of those automated ways to verify your

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<v Speaker 1>identity based on some sort of biological characteristic, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the eye scan or the fingerprints scan or whatever. Vocal

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<v Speaker 1>scans as well, you know, like the voice imprint. Lots

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<v Speaker 1>of different Hollywood versions of this. But you know, again,

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<v Speaker 1>going into that fingerprint approach, we thought that, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we we look at not just how we've defined it

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<v Speaker 1>and how stuff works, but look at a whole history

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<v Speaker 1>of fingerprinting. We're not the first podcast to do this,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, certainly not. Josh and Chuck of Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you Should Know did an episode on April called how

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<v Speaker 1>Fingerprinting Works, and they go pretty deeply into the history

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<v Speaker 1>and say many pithy things. So if you would like

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<v Speaker 1>to check that episode out, you can go to Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you Should Know dot com right and just stick around,

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<v Speaker 1>because we're gonna say some pithy things too. We are

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<v Speaker 1>going to cover some of the history kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>quick overview, but first I thought I would read a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of little excerpts from our article on how fingerprints

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<v Speaker 1>scanners work, because there are a couple that I thought

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<v Speaker 1>were really interesting from how stuff works dot Com. Neither

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<v Speaker 1>of us actually wrote this. Nope, Nope, I didn't write

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<v Speaker 1>this one. This one says people have tiny ridges of

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<v Speaker 1>skin on their fingers because this particular adaptation was extremely

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<v Speaker 1>advantageous to the ancestors of the human species. The pattern

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<v Speaker 1>of ridges and valleys on fingers make it easier for

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<v Speaker 1>the hands to grip things in the same way a

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<v Speaker 1>rubber tread pattern helps to attire grip the road. The

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<v Speaker 1>other function of fingerprints is a total coincidence. Like everything

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<v Speaker 1>in the human body, these ridges form through a combination

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<v Speaker 1>of genetic and environmental factors. The genetic code and DNA

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<v Speaker 1>gives general orders in the way skin should form in

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<v Speaker 1>the developing fetus, but the specific way it forms is

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<v Speaker 1>a result of random events. The exact position of the

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<v Speaker 1>fetus in the womb at a particular moment, and the

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<v Speaker 1>exact composition and density of surrounding amniotic fluid decides how

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<v Speaker 1>every individual ridge will form. This, by the way, is

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<v Speaker 1>how identical twins can have different fingerprints pretty cool because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, genetically they're identical, but their fingerprints are different,

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<v Speaker 1>still different. Interesting. So looking at this history, you might think, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard about fingerprinting, particularly when it applies to law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>That's probably where a lot of people are familiar with it,

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<v Speaker 1>besides the verification. Sure, sure, and uh and a couple

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<v Speaker 1>popular media pieces have talked recently about Um. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>you you get things like Ripper Street or Sleepy Hollow

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<v Speaker 1>having characters going like this new fingerprinting thing in the amaging,

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<v Speaker 1>amazing Age of Victoria. Um, not not so much. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>so fingerprints people, Well, first of all, people have been

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<v Speaker 1>aware of them for ages because we're curious folks, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>human beings. We we were very curious and narcissistic. We

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<v Speaker 1>like to learn stuff and we like to look at ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>And how do I know that this dates back are

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<v Speaker 1>ages and ages and ages ago because we have prehistoric

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<v Speaker 1>depictions found in Nova Scotia and it depicted a hand

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<v Speaker 1>with ridge patterns on the skin. Now, that does not

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<v Speaker 1>mean that the ancient Nova Scotians were familiar with the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that all the fingerprints were unique, and therefore no

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<v Speaker 1>to individuals had the same ones, but at least showed

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, yeah, they noticed them. Yeah, but the

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<v Speaker 1>ancient Babylonians may have actually used fingerprints to differentiate people. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>we've found fingerprints in clay to to sign business transactions,

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<v Speaker 1>and the ancient Chinese used inked fingerprints for both business

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<v Speaker 1>purposes and child identification. And in the thirteen hundreds in Persia,

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<v Speaker 1>official government documents often included fingerprints, probably to indicate they

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<v Speaker 1>were authorized and official. Now, according to the US Marshall's Office,

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<v Speaker 1>which has an entire web page devoted to fingerprinting in

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<v Speaker 1>the history of it, one government official in Persia at

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<v Speaker 1>that time made the observation that no two fingerprints were alike,

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<v Speaker 1>which obviously would be very important if you're making a

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<v Speaker 1>document official or authorized. But it wasn't until the eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighties that that amazing Age of Victoria previously mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>we got some kind of official classification system, right. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't until the modern era that we started seeing it.

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<v Speaker 1>In uh story, it wasn't even in wide use at

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning. It was just kind of exploratory. Dr Henry

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<v Speaker 1>Faulds back in eighteen eighty proposed using fingerprints for identification

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<v Speaker 1>as well as a means of classifying them. So he

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<v Speaker 1>forwarded these ideas to a certain Charles Darwin, very important

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<v Speaker 1>historical figure in his own right. But Darwin at the

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<v Speaker 1>time was towards the end of his life and felt

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<v Speaker 1>that he did not have the necessary UH time and

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<v Speaker 1>energy to devote to this thought. It was really interesting, however,

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<v Speaker 1>so he forwarded the information along to a cousin of

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<v Speaker 1>his named Francis Galton. So false would write a scientific

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<v Speaker 1>paper about his methods and actually identified a fingerprint, ascertain

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<v Speaker 1>the identity of the person who left that fingerprint on

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<v Speaker 1>bottle of alcohol. Shouldn't come as any surprise. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>this brings us all together. It does. Then in three

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Twain would would use this this new startling scientific

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<v Speaker 1>information in a story. Yeah, it was in Life on

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<v Speaker 1>the Mississippi, And in that one of the elements of

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<v Speaker 1>that story is a murderer is identified through the use

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<v Speaker 1>of fingerprints. And he would revisit the idea in a

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<v Speaker 1>book called Putting Head Wilson Putting Head. Well, so it's interesting. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this was before anyone was actually using UH fingerprints in

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<v Speaker 1>any kind of criminal investigations on an official basis. It

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<v Speaker 1>had not been science fiction, really was. It kind of

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<v Speaker 1>was so so that was exciting. But but soon in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty eight, Sir Francis Galton, remember the cousin to

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Darwin, who had received information about this about ten

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<v Speaker 1>years previous, um, began his own study of fingerprints. Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>He wrote a book in eighteen ninety two and put

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<v Speaker 1>forth a formal classification system and identify the tiny characteristics

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<v Speaker 1>used to differentiate fingerprints, which now we call Galton's details.

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<v Speaker 1>He also observed that fingerprints don't change over the lifetime

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<v Speaker 1>of a person, so the ones you have when you're

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<v Speaker 1>a kid are the same ones you have when you're old.

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<v Speaker 1>Originally wanted to kind of link fingerprints to certain types

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<v Speaker 1>of traits like intelligence or heredity, which is so racist. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of essentially, I think this was almost in an

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<v Speaker 1>attempt And I don't know enough about Galton to say

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<v Speaker 1>this for sure, but it seems like an attempt to

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<v Speaker 1>justify certain societies beliefs in certain people, that kind of thing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't necessarily so racist, but um, but it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of runs in that direction. Yeah, Because I mean, the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that you could identify a person's intelligence based on

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<v Speaker 1>their fingerprints already seems a little sketchy, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>he did determined that there was no connection. There was

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<v Speaker 1>no there were no identifier marks in a person's fingerprints

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<v Speaker 1>that would give you any clue as to that person's

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence or genetic background. However, he did figure out that

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<v Speaker 1>there were a lot of differences and that people didn't

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<v Speaker 1>weren't likely to have the same fingerprints. Yeah, unlikely, in

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<v Speaker 1>the order of one in sixty four billion, that's pretty unlikely.

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<v Speaker 1>So in eight we get the first use of fingerprints

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<v Speaker 1>in a criminal investigation on an official level. Uh one vs.

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<v Speaker 1>Tech and I I'm sure I butchered his last name.

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<v Speaker 1>Who was a police officer in Argentina used them in

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<v Speaker 1>a murder investigation. It was actually a really tragic case,

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<v Speaker 1>but the discovery meant that he was able to solve

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<v Speaker 1>this mystery and prove that the person that was believed

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<v Speaker 1>to have been the murderer was in fact not the killer. So, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>not only was it the first use, but it was

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty dramatic example of it. Now, between we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>skip to nineteen eighteen, but between the late nineteenth century

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<v Speaker 1>and the early twentieth century he started to see fingerprints

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<v Speaker 1>get adopted into various legal organizations all around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>The United Kingdom and the United States were leading the way,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was all over the place. So by nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen you have Edmund Lekard who says that you only

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<v Speaker 1>need twelve points of similarity between an individual's fingerprint and

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<v Speaker 1>a target fingerprint to serve as a positive identification. Now

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<v Speaker 1>you may have heard about those twelve points of singularity,

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<v Speaker 1>that this is somehow like a legal thing, that if

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<v Speaker 1>you were able to meet those twelve points of singularity,

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<v Speaker 1>you have the legal basis to say this person did this.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh not necessarily a legal definition at all. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>UH countries have very very different ways of saying whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not a fingerprint is a valid match for another one,

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<v Speaker 1>and some, like the United States, do not have a

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<v Speaker 1>minimum number of resemblances that need to be there in

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<v Speaker 1>order for you to call it a match. Now, usually

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement agencies rely on experts who give their expert

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<v Speaker 1>opinion and therefore putting their own reputation on the line

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<v Speaker 1>as to whether or not something matches. And of course,

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<v Speaker 1>now these days we rely very heavily on digital information,

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<v Speaker 1>which with very very complex and intelligent algorithms that will

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<v Speaker 1>that will do some really interesting like work. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>so with that, you know, the the level of a

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<v Speaker 1>confidence grows quite a bit. So, uh, just so you

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<v Speaker 1>know that twelve points of similarity not necessarily a legal standard.

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<v Speaker 1>Nineteen four that's when Congress enabled had an act that

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<v Speaker 1>established the new division for the Federal Bureau of Investigation

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<v Speaker 1>also known as the FBI. Uh And this division was

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<v Speaker 1>called the Identification Division. I bet you can guess what

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<v Speaker 1>it did. So it became kind of a centralized fingerprint

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<v Speaker 1>file for the entire country. So not it wasn't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>uh standard procedure for every law enforcement agency out there

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<v Speaker 1>to send a copy to the FBI, But that's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of what started to happen, so that, uh, there could

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<v Speaker 1>be this sort of cooperation between different departments which often

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have any communication with each other. Sure sure, by

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty six, the FBI would have processed more than

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<v Speaker 1>a hundred million fingerprint cards. Yeah, not just processed, but

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<v Speaker 1>they did that by hand, right right, and it would

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<v Speaker 1>be two million by one, So two million physical cards

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<v Speaker 1>with fingerprints on them. I mean, just imagine how many, like,

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<v Speaker 1>how how much storage you need just for me, it's two.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even I can't even imagine it. But by

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI introduced the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System or

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<v Speaker 1>if SO. It's the largest fingerprint database in the world

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<v Speaker 1>and its computer automated. It takes about twenty seven minutes

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<v Speaker 1>for the system to comb through every single file in

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<v Speaker 1>its database to find out if there is a potential match.

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<v Speaker 1>During a criminal investigation, it's different. If it's a civil case,

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually like more than an hour. But for criminal investigation,

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<v Speaker 1>for all the criminal files that are storing this database,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seven minutes from the time you actually input the

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<v Speaker 1>suspects fingerprint. I imagine that's a lot faster than whatever

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<v Speaker 1>in turn they sent down to the basement. Well yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because I mean you would have to narrow down the

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<v Speaker 1>person quite a bit before you could ever start comparing. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a man, so cut out all the women

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<v Speaker 1>and then go like there are seventy million of them

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<v Speaker 1>down there. Uh yeah, that would be that would be

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<v Speaker 1>a daunting task. So in the digital age, we can

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<v Speaker 1>actually analyze this stuff way better than we ever could,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you don't have to use the naked eye anymore

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<v Speaker 1>and try and find those little ridges and stuff. You

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<v Speaker 1>can actually rely very heavily upon computer systems, and once

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<v Speaker 1>we started getting those computer systems in place, they pretty

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<v Speaker 1>soon thereafter became um commercially available. Yeah. Yeah, we had

0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 1>some fingerprint verification systems that have been around for a

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 1>few decades now. On the consumer level, they've only been

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 1>available fairly recently. And you might be thinking, oh, yeah, yeah,

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 1>the iPhone five s because it has that that fingerprint

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.440
<v Speaker 1>scanner where you can use that to log into your phone.

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.840
<v Speaker 1>That's the first smartphone to ever use that, right, Nope, no, no,

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 1>there's actually a mobile device. The first mobile device that

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 1>I found was a one that dated from two thousand three,

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 1>the H and Boy. The name of this is phenomenal.

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 1>HP names their products in such catchy ways. It's the

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 1>HP I pack, I p a Q P PC pocket PC.

0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it just rolls off the tongue. Yeah, it

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 1>really is. I mean, with a name like that, how

0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:25.000
<v Speaker 1>could you resist I phone my phone? So at any rate,

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.800
<v Speaker 1>this was the first mobile device to incorporate finger scanning technology,

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 1>but it was also sort of the edge of a

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 1>boom for the technology. UM it was being extended for

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 1>for wide consumer use. At the time. I mean, you know,

0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 1>keyboards and mice had them, laptops had them. You could

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 1>buy a USB scanner for multipurpose use and encrypt everything

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>with your fingerprint, right, you could end up creating, for example,

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 1>with a copier. You could end up telling people, all right,

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 1>this group of folks are authorized to make copies. Anyone

0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>who's not on this list cannot make copies. And you

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 1>would walk up to make copies. And if you weren't

0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 1>on that list, then I guess no fun Christmas party

0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Shenanigans for you. But but but also opening this up

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>to the consumer market meant that a lot of people

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.920
<v Speaker 1>started finding the flaws in the technology. Oh yes. In

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.920
<v Speaker 1>December five, clarks And University researchers announced that they could

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 1>fool of the world's fingerprint scanners using an incredibly sophisticated,

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 1>expensive substance. Yeah, they could just go out to toy

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 1>store and buy some Plato and essentially make a copy

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 1>of a fingerprint and put it on any optical scanner.

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>And we'll talk about the optical scanners in a little bit.

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>And it worked really well. So that gave people some

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 1>pause and thought, maybe we should come up with something

0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 1>besides optical scanners too, because fingerprint identification is a great idea,

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 1>but if it's if it's that easy to fool, we

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>have to find a different way of measuring it. So

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>then there was a totally different expose on September one,

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and six, when our beloved MythBusters decided to

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 1>do a fingerprint scanner scam of their own. They decided

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 1>to see if they could fool one, and this one

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 1>was a little different. It wasn't just an optical scanner.

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>It was supposed to also detect sweat from pores in

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the fingertips. Okay, so so you can't just use a

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.320
<v Speaker 1>lump of plato or good photograph. You have to have

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 1>something that sweats has to have to otherwise it's never

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>gonna work. So what did they do. They made a

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 1>latext copy of a fingerprint and then they did a

0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 1>very sophisticated thing in order to simulate sweat. Yeah, and

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 1>it worked. So if you can't play dough it, lick it,

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I guess is the moral of that story. I think

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that that's really what we all should learn

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>from this today. Probably so anyway, they're still seeing this

0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of technology being rolled out. But it's not just

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.320
<v Speaker 1>an optical scanners, and even optical scanners have gotten a

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.760
<v Speaker 1>lot better than they were back in two thousand five.

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.120
<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back with more digital fingerprinting after these

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>short messages. All right, I had just talked about optical scanners,

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and those are one of the ones that are the

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.560
<v Speaker 1>easiest to explain and uh and fairly common even today.

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 1>In fact, not my work computer, but my home computer

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>has my home laptop has a little optical scanner. So

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.399
<v Speaker 1>if I want to log in, I can just swipe

0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.560
<v Speaker 1>my finger across it. So optical scanners use something that

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.479
<v Speaker 1>is found in digital cameras and camcorders called a charge

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 1>coupled device or c c D. Now, essentially that's a

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.159
<v Speaker 1>light sensor. It's got an array of things called photo sites.

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Now that's light sensitive diodes, and it's works pretty much

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the way you would imagine. So photons, those little particles

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 1>of light when they make a collision with these photo sites,

0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 1>it generates a little electrical signal and those can then

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>be compiled and converted into a digital image. And it's

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>essentially the same process that digital cameras used to take pictures.

0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.639
<v Speaker 1>And here's the thing though, So if I put my

0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 1>finger on an optical scanner, I'm actually blocking light. And

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.160
<v Speaker 1>unless you happen to be e T the extraterrestrial, your

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 1>finger probably isn't emitting light. So how the heck is

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.879
<v Speaker 1>it getting this picture? Well, it uses a flash, yeah,

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 1>except in this case of flash is probably like a

0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>single l ED or for some scanners maybe an array

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:29.439
<v Speaker 1>of LEDs light emitting diodes in other words, and so

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.399
<v Speaker 1>that provides the light that is necessary to take this image.

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.280
<v Speaker 1>And uh, then the c c D creates an image

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 1>of your fingertip. However, it's a little funky. It's inverted, right.

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 1>The dark areas are going to represent the ridges that

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.919
<v Speaker 1>the raised portions of your fingertip, and the light areas

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.120
<v Speaker 1>are going to represent the values. Yeah, so it's kind

0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 1>of like looking at a negative, a photo negative. Uh.

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.400
<v Speaker 1>And it makes sense because stuff that's reflecting more light

0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>is going to create a lot a bigger electrical signal,

0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.639
<v Speaker 1>thus creating that you know, the charge couple device is

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.680
<v Speaker 1>going to make that into a darker portion the valleys.

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 1>The light is not as much of it's going to

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.080
<v Speaker 1>reflect back, so you get a weaker electrical signal. That's

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>why it gets lighter. Uh So, if you were to

0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 1>scan your finger and UM and it tells you that

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a good scan, because most of these devices also

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>have some sort of fail safe in them that will

0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 1>alert you if there wasn't enough enough differentiation between the

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 1>dark and light parts. Right, that the same way that

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.879
<v Speaker 1>you're that your camera UM sometimes will take a picture

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.120
<v Speaker 1>that's that's overdeveloped or underdeveloped. The same thing can happen here. Yeah,

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 1>So if you wanted to, like if you most of

0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 1>the software has let error function built into it, so

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.199
<v Speaker 1>it can tell and it will ask you to scan again, right,

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 1>So then you would scan again. So if it's the

0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.639
<v Speaker 1>first time you're using it, then you would also end

0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 1>up creating a profile in some way. It might not

0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.840
<v Speaker 1>be you, it might be an administrator, but something that

0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.080
<v Speaker 1>links the fingerprint to who you are and what access

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 1>you are supposed to have will have then on subsequent uses,

0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.639
<v Speaker 1>what will happen is that when you scan your finger

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 1>it will go through its database of of identities that

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>have fingerprints attached to them look for you. If you're there,

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>then it will authorize you for whatever use you're allowed. So,

0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>for instance, on my home computer, I've given myself very

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 1>strict restrictions because I am not to be trusted. Uh,

0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.720
<v Speaker 1>and so all I'm able to do is play a

0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.840
<v Speaker 1>pirated copy of Flappy Bird. That's not true, I don't

0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.680
<v Speaker 1>have Flappy Bird. But at any rate, you know, that's

0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>the basic You know, that's the basic procedure, right, And

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>and so if your fingerprint is not found in that database,

0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>you get an error. So either you have to swipe

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.640
<v Speaker 1>it again or or scan it again if it's not swipe.

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.919
<v Speaker 1>All depends on what kind of scanner you're at, or

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.800
<v Speaker 1>you end up saying, uh, the jig is up, you

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.920
<v Speaker 1>got me, I don't really belong here, and then you

0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>run away. Um. So that that's the basic thing. And

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.360
<v Speaker 1>what they're looking for. It's not the entire pattern of

0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 1>your fingertip. It's looking for for a specific minutia about it,

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 1>certain types of patterns and it. And it depends on

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the software that the scanner is using. Um. It might

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.480
<v Speaker 1>be the places where the ridges converge, um or split

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.239
<v Speaker 1>apart at the end, or um any any other kind

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:23.560
<v Speaker 1>of detail. It's going to be unique to you. Right.

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 1>So in other words, all has to do is say, hey,

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.280
<v Speaker 1>there are these three points on this fingertip, uh that

0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>are unique that that's all I'm concerned about. And if

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.439
<v Speaker 1>the fingerprint that scan has those three points, I know

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.120
<v Speaker 1>it's this person and they can be let through by

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>constraining on the minutia, then you really cut down on

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 1>all the rest of the data that's necessary to have

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.160
<v Speaker 1>a verification. Right, you can kind of throw everything else

0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.080
<v Speaker 1>out and concentrate on that and right. Uh and and

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.400
<v Speaker 1>they're pretty good, like we said, though they can sometimes

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 1>be fooled by a really high quality picture of a fingerprint. Right,

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.560
<v Speaker 1>So what if you instead of looking at a picture,

0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>you were to make sure the fingerprint in some other way,

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:08.480
<v Speaker 1>such as capacitance right, Because capacitense touch screens are totally

0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.840
<v Speaker 1>a thing. Yeah, So it's very similar to what a

0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>regular capacityans touch screen is. So you know, there are

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.440
<v Speaker 1>different ways of doing touch screens as well. There's somewhere

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.080
<v Speaker 1>you have to use pressure. With the benefit of that

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 1>is you could be wearing gloves and still work a

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>pressure version. The downside is that when people are expected

0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:31.200
<v Speaker 1>to apply pressure to delicate material, they sometimes destroy it completely, right,

0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.880
<v Speaker 1>or it'll at least decrease the lifespan of that object

0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>by quite a bit. Capacitance, however, uses weak electric fields.

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.480
<v Speaker 1>So when you make contact with a screen, a touch screen,

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 1>that's using capacitance. See, you're a conductor. I don't mean

0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.760
<v Speaker 1>that you conduct trains, Nor do I mean that you

0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you do, Maybe you do, Maybe you do. Maybe

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.159
<v Speaker 1>you conduct orchestras. Maybe you conduct orchestras on a train.

0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. But what I'm talking about, you do

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 1>call us because that sounds fascinating, kind of cool. Actually,

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.880
<v Speaker 1>But now I'm talking about electrical conductivity. So we can

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 1>conduct electricity. It's not great for us to have a

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of it, but tiny amounts don't hurt us. Sure,

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 1>And as it turns out, the ridges and valleys on

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:19.159
<v Speaker 1>your fingers conduct slightly different amounts of electricity. This blows

0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.880
<v Speaker 1>my mind. I mean to think that the raised parts

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.720
<v Speaker 1>of your fingerprint and the valleys of your fingerprint are

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:30.439
<v Speaker 1>distinct enough to create a measurable difference in capacitance. You know,

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:32.920
<v Speaker 1>it's something I never would have imagined. And it's really

0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:34.639
<v Speaker 1>a sensor issue here. I mean the fact that we

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.359
<v Speaker 1>can create these these cells, these capacitor plate cells that

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.640
<v Speaker 1>are sensitive enough to tell that yeah. Technology, so what's

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 1>happening is when you put your finger down on one

0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 1>of these capacity scanners, you are actually you're you're acting

0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:52.600
<v Speaker 1>as a capacitance plate, right Your fingertip is acting is one,

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.480
<v Speaker 1>and you already have other ones inside the scanner itself,

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 1>and it will end up creating voltages, and there will

0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:03.000
<v Speaker 1>be different differences in those voltages. The differences between the

0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.719
<v Speaker 1>ridges and the valleys based on how far away they

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.520
<v Speaker 1>are from the from the cells. Yeah, so if it's

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:10.919
<v Speaker 1>a valley, it's going to be lower capacitance because the

0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 1>distance is greater. Capacitance is very dependent upon distance. So

0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 1>if you move to capacitance plates far enough apart, they

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.919
<v Speaker 1>will not be they will not work together. We've got

0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more to say about biometrics, but first

0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>let's take a quick break. It's amazing that the valleys,

0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:38.520
<v Speaker 1>just by being that much further away will create a

0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 1>different voltage than the ridges. And then having a whole,

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.760
<v Speaker 1>a whole set of these cells set up next to

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.160
<v Speaker 1>one another, um it allows the scanner to to sort

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 1>of make a digital picture of your fingerprint, but just

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>using electricity rather than light. The data from each one

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:57.760
<v Speaker 1>is again compiled and then converted into an image of sorts. Yeah. Yeah,

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.680
<v Speaker 1>you can think of it as like an image made

0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.639
<v Speaker 1>with electricity. And this is the sort of scanner that

0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.679
<v Speaker 1>the iPhone five S uses, so it's not an optical scanner.

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.119
<v Speaker 1>One of the big benefits of this technology is that

0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:13.520
<v Speaker 1>it's easier to make it really compact and manatorized, which

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.720
<v Speaker 1>is why you could find it in things like handheld electronics.

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Right sure. Um. However, this technology can also be fooled

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.880
<v Speaker 1>um sometimes by by mold of a finger um or

0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:27.520
<v Speaker 1>if someone has gone and calibrated the scanner to look

0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:30.719
<v Speaker 1>for things like like heat or a pulse. Um. You

0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:33.439
<v Speaker 1>can you can use one of those movie tricks, like

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.040
<v Speaker 1>a gelatin or silicone mold of a finger um pasted

0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 1>onto a different, different finger. Yeah. My favorite version of

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 1>getting past a capacitance or an optical scanner is to

0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:50.680
<v Speaker 1>use the finger that's been removed from the person who

0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 1>had the authorization. Yeah, yeah, snipping, that's that's that's your favorite.

0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 1>That's my favorite out in the field. That's what you like.

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 1>We had this discussion about the born identity before we

0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 1>came into the podcast. This is totally true. Uh, I

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 1>don't like to discuss my actual field operative kind of

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:10.320
<v Speaker 1>mentality and strategies. But yes, I do love doing that.

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.720
<v Speaker 1>So thermal scanners, well, this one's a little different because

0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:16.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a it's a heat scanner, and again it's one

0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of those ideas where it measures the differences in heat

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 1>between ridges and valleys. Once again, you're going to get

0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.919
<v Speaker 1>a slightly higher temperature from the ridges than you do

0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 1>with the valleys. The valleys that are essentially pockets of air.

0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 1>There's some downside with this one. One of the problems

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:35.400
<v Speaker 1>with thermal scanners is that if you if it takes

0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 1>too long to do the scan, the temperature differences are

0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>going to equalize across the and I wind up get

0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>you just get a blank fingerprint, like a big blank fingerprint.

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Not useful. This next one is super cool. It's ultrasonic

0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.960
<v Speaker 1>ultrasonic sensors, so right, yeah, Well, we did a whole

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:59.359
<v Speaker 1>episode about ultrasound called How Ultrasound Works. Crazily enough that

0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:03.320
<v Speaker 1>published jan if you would like to hear all about

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 1>how this technology works. But um, but it's essentially echolocation. Yeah,

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:09.920
<v Speaker 1>you're sending out sound signals and then you're waiting for

0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 1>them to bounce back and by measuring the amount of

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>time it took to go out and come back. You

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:17.400
<v Speaker 1>get an idea of how far away something is. Well.

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>That works, you know, in lots of different ways, including

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 1>being able to tell a fingerprint, being able to read

0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:26.560
<v Speaker 1>a fingerprint. It can go even deeper than that, exactly,

0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.199
<v Speaker 1>it can go into tissues. So if you wanted, you

0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.520
<v Speaker 1>could create an ultrasonic fingerprint scanner that scan not just

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:36.119
<v Speaker 1>the fingerprint itself, but the underlying veins that are in

0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:38.520
<v Speaker 1>your finger which also are going to be unique to you.

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 1>So that's a lot harder to fake than a fingerprint.

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Like you're not going to get a really high resolution

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 1>image of veins and then create a fake finger easily.

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:51.760
<v Speaker 1>It would be really difficult. I mean, but you could

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.760
<v Speaker 1>use your favorite application, which is removing someone's finger and

0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:59.360
<v Speaker 1>say that right unless you had also built into the

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:04.200
<v Speaker 1>software to detect living tissue, because to see if blood

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:07.080
<v Speaker 1>is moving through the veins the vessels. If it's not

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:10.280
<v Speaker 1>detecting blood, it's good to say, y'all, this is messed up.

0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 1>You need to send someone down right now the fingerprint scanner.

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.639
<v Speaker 1>Things that are bad are happening. That's exactly what the

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:20.639
<v Speaker 1>voice that uses too, I I assumed run into it

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:22.720
<v Speaker 1>in the field all the time. So yeah, I mean

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 1>this is uh, you know, that's we're making light of

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:28.680
<v Speaker 1>it because to be serious about it is so squeaky, terrifying.

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 1>But at any rate, it does mean that you can

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:32.959
<v Speaker 1>build those sort of parameters, and so it's not just

0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:36.040
<v Speaker 1>looking at the fingerprint and the veins underneath, but also

0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 1>to make sure it is truly a valid uh entry,

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:42.200
<v Speaker 1>so that they don't you know, you don't end up

0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:46.200
<v Speaker 1>compromising security. Um. And there there's also I wanted to

0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 1>mention very briefly the difference between those static uh fingerprint scanners,

0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 1>especially the optical ones where you just hold your finger

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 1>down and you wait for it. It's kind of like

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.760
<v Speaker 1>a copier, right right, and the swipe style that you

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 1>were talking about having on your home laptop exactly. So

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 1>if you've ever had a laptop or any other device

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:05.360
<v Speaker 1>that has like a narrow window and you're supposed to

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.800
<v Speaker 1>swipe your finger across that window, the reason for that

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 1>is that it's actually taking a series of quote unquote

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:17.000
<v Speaker 1>images of your finger. However the implementation is actually being used,

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 1>it's it's doing then a quick series. Machines are really fast,

0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 1>so they can do this without any real problem. They're

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>looking for those minutia that we talked about before, and

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 1>they're able to uh to use software to compile them.

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's it's nifty having the smaller form

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 1>factor because, like we said, uh, then you can miniaturize,

0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you can put them in something like a cell phone

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and also make them cheaper. Exactly. Yeah, you've got this

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 1>little window and your finger moves past the window instead

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 1>of the window having to be big enough to So

0:29:47.320 --> 0:29:52.200
<v Speaker 1>it's it's really uh an interesting development and uh pretty cool. Also,

0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:55.560
<v Speaker 1>we can mention that biometric systems, many of them, not

0:29:55.640 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 1>necessarily all of them, but many of them end up

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 1>translating your fingerprint in to an algorithm that or an

0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 1>algorithm rather does the translating that turns into a bunch

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 1>of ones and zeros, all right, right. A digitization um

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.440
<v Speaker 1>sometimes called a hash. It's like a personal code, like

0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 1>a really long pin. Yeah. So in this case, what

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:14.880
<v Speaker 1>you would say is that it's not storing an image

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:16.560
<v Speaker 1>of your fingerprint. It's not like if you were to

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:19.720
<v Speaker 1>somehow hack into the computer you would suddenly see a

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.080
<v Speaker 1>on your screen a representation of your fingerprint. It would

0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>just mean that it would take the the pattern of

0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 1>ridges and valleys and all the night nutia convert that

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:33.080
<v Speaker 1>into this this hash, this this long string of ones

0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and zeros, and the next time you scan it, if

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 1>the if the same hash comes up, then it is

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 1>a match and it says, all right, identification has been verified.

0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:46.120
<v Speaker 1>But it's not actually like an actual real image of

0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:49.040
<v Speaker 1>your fingerprint. And the reason why a lot of these

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:52.240
<v Speaker 1>companies try to talk about you know this as as

0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 1>a big selling point is that it doesn't allow you

0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 1>to recreate a person's fingerprint if you were to get

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 1>hold of those hash So it's not like you would say, oh,

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:05.320
<v Speaker 1>if I just put this through an image program, I

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:09.000
<v Speaker 1>suddenly get a picture of that fingerprint, you would just yeah,

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.320
<v Speaker 1>that's that's the way. I think that the iPhone five

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>S and the Galaxy something something that the latest Samsung

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 1>incorporates it. And UM PayPal these days even has UM

0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 1>fingerprint signatures on their app, and any any device that

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 1>allows you to in to scan in your fingerprint will

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:31.960
<v Speaker 1>yeah let you pay for stuff on PayPal with that signature.

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure we're going to see a lot of that

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff incorporate with things like the NFC technology

0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:41.040
<v Speaker 1>or even the low Bluetooth energy low energy bluetooth. Rather,

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I should say, implementations where your fingerprint instead of having

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 1>to put in a pen, you just swipe your finger. Yeah,

0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know. I kind of hope that

0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 1>it's an additional safety feature, not a standalone safety feature,

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.160
<v Speaker 1>because you know, unlike a password or a pin, you

0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 1>can't just change your fingerprint if it gets stolen. And

0:31:58.440 --> 0:32:02.320
<v Speaker 1>this hash issue add security to to the whole thing.

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 1>It's harder to but I'm sure that someone if they

0:32:05.360 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>really wanted to, could decode a hash and figure out

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 1>what that scan looks like. Yeah. Maybe, I mean, they

0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:13.080
<v Speaker 1>would have to have a lot of information, but it

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 1>is It is important to say that there is no

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:21.959
<v Speaker 1>security feature out there that's going to be right right,

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing out there, So having it as an additional tool,

0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 1>I agree, Lauren, that's that's the best way of looking

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.320
<v Speaker 1>at it. I think anytime we decide that we're going

0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>to rely on a specific implementation and that's it and

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:38.280
<v Speaker 1>we're done, we're good, then we're pretty much dooming ourselves

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:41.160
<v Speaker 1>to getting hacked in some way down the line. And

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that wraps up this classic episode about biometrics. It's still

0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:49.920
<v Speaker 1>a very very big topic, arguably an even bigger topic

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:54.280
<v Speaker 1>today than it was back in very complicated. There's so

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 1>many things to take into consideration from security and privacy

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:04.000
<v Speaker 1>issues too. You know, the problems with authentication in some cases,

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>ways to work around biometrics. There's a lot going on there.

0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 1>I will likely do more episodes kind of diving into

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 1>not just the tech but the ethics behind biometrics. If

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you have suggestions for topics I should cover in future episodes,

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.400
<v Speaker 1>let me know the best way to do that is

0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 1>over on Twitter. The handle is text stuff H s

0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 1>W and I'll talk to you again really soon. Y

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:37.160
<v Speaker 1>tex Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more

0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:40.640
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,

0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.