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Speaker 1: Joining me now is the CEO of Nova Holdings. Cassim

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Speaker 1: could say, Cassim, thank you very much for coming into

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Speaker 1: the studio. It is the company arguably of the moment

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Speaker 1: here in Europe at least. And look, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: that goes into the holdings business, but Novo Nordisk is

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Speaker 1: the standout. The sales of course of Wee Govey and

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Speaker 1: a zenpic last year powering the returns for you, what

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Speaker 1: do you do with the cash pile that you're now

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Speaker 1: sitting on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, good question, because obviously as we think through

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Speaker 2: our strategy for the coming years, and actually twenty three

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Speaker 2: was the last year of our five of our prior

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Speaker 2: five year strategy. So now we have a new strategy

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Speaker 2: in a place called Strategy twenty thirty and the big

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Speaker 2: theme there is scaling. How do we absorb the phenomenal

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Speaker 2: inflows that are going to be coming our way from

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Speaker 2: the great success of Nova Ordisk and indeed the success

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Speaker 2: of Novo nessis as.

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Speaker 3: Well our other operating company.

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Speaker 2: Make sure we absorb those in flows, reinvest them and

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Speaker 2: hopefully generate the attractive returns that we've been able to

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Speaker 2: do historically.

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Speaker 1: And you've already pulled the trigger, of course, on a

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Speaker 1: big ticket deal steam point five billion US dollar acquisition

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Speaker 1: of Catalan. How confident you are you at this point

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Speaker 1: that that deal goes through that antitrust regulators approve it.

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Speaker 3: Look, I can't comment on that.

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Speaker 2: Regulatory processes are what they are and they've got a

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Speaker 2: play their course.

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Speaker 3: What we know is we have to be patient.

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Speaker 2: So if we look back a year ago we merge

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Speaker 2: two of our portfolio companies, Nova and Ortists and Christian

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Speaker 2: Hansen to form Novo, nesss that regulatory process took over

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Speaker 2: a year. So I think all we can do is

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Speaker 2: obviously be patient and make sure that we cooperate fully

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Speaker 2: and transparently with the regulator and hope for a closing

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Speaker 2: as soon as possible, obviously to give clarity to our

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Speaker 2: customers and indeed.

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Speaker 3: To the employees.

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Speaker 1: What does as soon as possible look like at this point?

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Speaker 3: What is the approximate time? Tom?

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Speaker 2: You know as well as I mean, these processes take

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Speaker 2: months and it is what it is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sure are you slightly irged when you hear Eli Lilli's CEO,

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Speaker 1: one of your key competitors, saying this should be to

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Speaker 1: anti trust regulators to competition authorities.

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Speaker 3: Does that get under your style? You sort of get

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Speaker 3: used to it. Right.

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Speaker 2: We all compete with each other vigorously and Eli Lilly

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Speaker 2: has been a formidable and much respected competitor to Nova

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Speaker 2: and Ortisk for many years. Right, we are the two

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Speaker 2: world leading incident and obesity obesity companies. So a bit

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Speaker 2: of back and forth between Lily and NOVANORDERSK is parf

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Speaker 2: of the course.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and the idea is you take three of these

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Speaker 1: Catalent factories, yes, and you sell them to Novo Nordisk.

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Speaker 1: That's the plan. What do you do with the rest

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Speaker 1: of the Cattalent business there?

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Speaker 2: So the rest of the Catalant business is one that

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Speaker 2: we like a great deal. So the whole area what

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Speaker 2: we call biofarmer services. So if you look at the

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Speaker 2: golden era of innovation that we're in pharmaceutical wise, that.

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Speaker 3: Innovation needs servicing.

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Speaker 2: It needs things companies that are called contract research organizations,

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Speaker 2: it needs contract manufacturing organizations and as well as many

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Speaker 2: other services. So we're heavily invested in this whole biopharmer

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Speaker 2: services arena. It's one that we like, it's one that's

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Speaker 2: core to our strategy and catalan fits very much in that.

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Speaker 2: So we look forward actually to hopefully as soon as possible,

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Speaker 2: getting our hands on that business, investing behind it, and

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Speaker 2: getting it to its full growth potential. And we're very

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Speaker 2: excited by that growth potential, not least because we firmly

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Speaker 2: believe that the biotech industry is off the bottom from

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Speaker 2: the downturn that happened back in late twenty early twenty one.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing IPOs come back, which means more funding for

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Speaker 2: the industry, which means more need for a contract development manufacturer.

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Speaker 3: So we're feeling pretty good about things.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting if for some reason the deal doesn't

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Speaker 1: go through. Part of the rational for the deal, of course,

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Speaker 1: is to ensure that that capacity that so far and

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Speaker 1: over in orders isn't able to match the demand's huge

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Speaker 1: demand for its products around the obesity drugs can't match

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Speaker 1: that demand quite yet. I know they're investing very heavily

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Speaker 1: around that. Part of the rational cantlein is to help

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Speaker 1: that if for some reason it falls through. What is

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Speaker 1: the playbook then to support and over and orders?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I think, as the CEO of novn Ordist

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Speaker 2: himself has said recently, the Catalan move is.

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Speaker 3: One piece of the puzzle.

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Speaker 2: There's a host of other initiatives that are taking place

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Speaker 2: to build capacity. There's a lot going on from an

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Speaker 2: organic perspective in terms of expanding facility in existing sites,

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Speaker 2: both in Europe and in the US. So Catalant is

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Speaker 2: an important piece of that, but by no means is

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Speaker 2: it the only piece of the puzzle. And the host

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Speaker 2: of other initiatives are on the way.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And it sounds like you want to be holding

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Speaker 1: onto these drug production facilities and these assets for the future.

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Speaker 1: Is part of this is a part of a longer term,

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Speaker 1: longer term strategy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, we're a long term investor, right, So

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Speaker 2: if we look at who Nova Holdings are, we are

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Speaker 2: very much focused on generating attractive long term returns. If

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Speaker 2: you look at our track record with the assets that

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Speaker 2: we do own, it's about long term investing and investing

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Speaker 2: for the growth, for the full growth potential of those assets.

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Speaker 1: So, yes, sixteen point five billion, it was not. It's

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Speaker 1: well in terms of the price tag, does that mark

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Speaker 1: the start of kind of new multi billion dollar deals

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Speaker 1: for Nova Holdings? What does that tell us about pricing

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Speaker 1: that you're looking at tom somewhere in.

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Speaker 2: The middle I mean, I think a catalant in many

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Speaker 2: ways for the strategic reasons you alluded to in relation

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Speaker 2: to Nova orders, is a one off that is not

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Speaker 2: the size of transaction that we've been doing. It's not

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Speaker 2: the size of transaction that I expect us to be

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Speaker 2: doing in the foreseeable future. Having said that, if you

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Speaker 2: look at the inflows coming our way in the coming years,

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Speaker 2: we do have to scale and we do have to

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Speaker 2: do bigger deals to put more money to work. So

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Speaker 2: what I would expect in the coming years is for

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Speaker 2: us to be doing bigger investments than we have done

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Speaker 2: the previous five but I don't think they'll quite reach

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Speaker 2: that level of I mean, sixteen and a half is

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Speaker 2: on the very big side, and that I would put

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Speaker 2: in the category of one off at least for the

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Speaker 2: next five years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, What are the criteria or the metrics that

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Speaker 1: you're looking at when it comes to potential acquisition targets

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Speaker 1: that have to align with your longer term view?

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Speaker 2: So look, I mean, as any financial investor, we're looking

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Speaker 2: at generating the right kind of risk adjusted returns. So

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Speaker 2: when we do these investments, we have our IRR targets.

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Speaker 2: But importantly, We're focused on certain sectors where we believe

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Speaker 2: that our strong heritage and life sciences where are long

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Speaker 2: routed and deep insights and network can add value. We

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Speaker 2: often say that we bring more than just capital to

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Speaker 2: our investments, and that's because of the heritage that we

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Speaker 2: have in the life science arena. And there's a handful

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Speaker 2: of sectors that we feel we have an edge, and

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Speaker 2: one of them is the biofarmer services sector. Whether you're

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Speaker 2: talking about CROs or CDMOS.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the biofarmers biofarmat sector within life science, the biofarmer

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Speaker 1: services services is a particular error focused when it comes

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Speaker 1: to deal making. Yeah, what about when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the green Green transition you're looking to allocate what between

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Speaker 1: You're going from two percent of allocations ten percent by

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty? Did you meet that and what specifically falls

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Speaker 1: into that caty? What are you looking for within green

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Speaker 1: transition invests?

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Speaker 2: Harm very good question because if you look at our

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Speaker 2: strategy on New Strategy twenty thirty, in many ways it's

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Speaker 2: more of the same, with the exception of scaling, i e.

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Speaker 3: Putting more money to work. However, we have called out

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Speaker 3: a couple.

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Speaker 2: Of new areas where we are going to be doing

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Speaker 2: investments in a slightly different way, and one of them

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Speaker 2: is green technology investing. So there's one area where we've

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Speaker 2: been investing heavily for the last six years and where

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Speaker 2: we're arguably the world leading investor, and that's in bio industrials.

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Speaker 3: So that is biotech solutions.

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Speaker 2: For industry, a very important area for the green transition.

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Speaker 2: Three years ago we went into infrastructure green infrastructure investing,

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Speaker 2: and we recently formed a fund called Glentra that is

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Speaker 2: focused on green energy investing. But we've recently made a

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Speaker 2: decision as part of Strategy twenty thirty to invest in

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Speaker 2: green tech and decarbonization technologies more broadly, regardless of whether

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Speaker 2: they have a bio industrial platform or not. So we're

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Speaker 2: going to be doing classic recycling, alternative packaging, etcetera, etcetera,

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Speaker 2: without necessarily the biotech angle that we've always focused on historically.

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Speaker 2: So a big area of focus for us, a big push,

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Speaker 2: and not only because it's important for the green transition,

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Speaker 2: but because we firmly believe that there are going to

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Speaker 2: be some very exciting returns to be generated in that area.

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Speaker 1: We've run out of time, but really appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: today coming to the studio CEO of COSE of Novo Holdings,

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Speaker 1: on how you're thinking about deploying some of that capital.