1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Pastor Teo Barrett's been known on Chicago's South Side 2 00:00:24,716 --> 00:00:28,356 Speaker 1: as a religious and community leader for fifty years, but 3 00:00:28,436 --> 00:00:31,556 Speaker 1: it wasn't until recently that people started to uncover Barrett's 4 00:00:31,556 --> 00:00:46,396 Speaker 1: trove of gospel music. In the nineteen seventies, Barrett began 5 00:00:46,476 --> 00:00:49,916 Speaker 1: making recordings of the music performed in his church. These 6 00:00:49,916 --> 00:00:52,716 Speaker 1: were sermons he turned into songs that sat around for 7 00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:56,036 Speaker 1: years until rappers started sampling them in the last decade, 8 00:00:56,756 --> 00:01:01,956 Speaker 1: people like Kanye West, Ti, DJ Khalin, Alicia Keys. His 9 00:01:02,076 --> 00:01:04,636 Speaker 1: song Nobody Knows was even used in a popular Nike 10 00:01:04,636 --> 00:01:08,036 Speaker 1: commercialist Steph Curry a couple of years ago. All this 11 00:01:08,116 --> 00:01:11,076 Speaker 1: recent attention on aster TiO Barrett has culminated in a 12 00:01:11,156 --> 00:01:14,116 Speaker 1: new box set from the Numero group called I Should 13 00:01:14,156 --> 00:01:17,476 Speaker 1: Wear a Crown, thirty nine tracks of his songs and 14 00:01:17,476 --> 00:01:21,236 Speaker 1: sermons throughout the years. You'll notice in my conversation with 15 00:01:21,316 --> 00:01:24,996 Speaker 1: TiO Barrett that he's a pastor through and through. He 16 00:01:25,076 --> 00:01:28,396 Speaker 1: can't help but breach, and in this episode you'll hear 17 00:01:28,436 --> 00:01:32,036 Speaker 1: a lot of his trademark aphorisms. You'll also hear about 18 00:01:32,036 --> 00:01:34,436 Speaker 1: his distant relation to the Reverend Ceo Franklin, and of 19 00:01:34,476 --> 00:01:38,276 Speaker 1: course his daughter, the great Arita Franklin. Pastor Barrett and 20 00:01:38,316 --> 00:01:40,036 Speaker 1: I also talk about how he went from a high 21 00:01:40,036 --> 00:01:43,236 Speaker 1: school dropout to a community leader, plus what it was 22 00:01:43,276 --> 00:01:45,476 Speaker 1: like for him to have his music discovered so publicly 23 00:01:45,676 --> 00:01:52,956 Speaker 1: after decades. This is broken record liner notes for the 24 00:01:52,996 --> 00:02:01,676 Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Richmondtin. Here's my conversation with Pastor 25 00:02:01,676 --> 00:02:04,996 Speaker 1: TiO Barrett. We should start from the beginning. You have 26 00:02:05,116 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 1: such a rich, fascinating history and the fact that you 27 00:02:09,356 --> 00:02:12,996 Speaker 1: grew up between Queens in Chicago. Can you tell me 28 00:02:12,996 --> 00:02:15,356 Speaker 1: a little bit about Queens and Chicago when you were 29 00:02:15,356 --> 00:02:20,716 Speaker 1: growing up. Yes, I was born in Jamaica, Queens and 30 00:02:20,836 --> 00:02:25,236 Speaker 1: that was in nineteen forty four. So in nineteen fifty one, 31 00:02:25,476 --> 00:02:30,476 Speaker 1: my father had a leading to come to Chicago, where 32 00:02:30,596 --> 00:02:34,836 Speaker 1: we had relatives of his sisters and his brother, and 33 00:02:34,876 --> 00:02:38,396 Speaker 1: so we moved to Chicago and that's where he started 34 00:02:38,436 --> 00:02:44,596 Speaker 1: his ministry. Moved into them Otobie Welles projects, and that's 35 00:02:44,636 --> 00:02:50,636 Speaker 1: where I grew up and we stayed there until just 36 00:02:51,036 --> 00:02:57,156 Speaker 1: before my father's passing, and I was sixteen years of age. 37 00:02:57,836 --> 00:03:01,076 Speaker 1: It wasn't a very pleasant period in my life because 38 00:03:01,356 --> 00:03:05,676 Speaker 1: all of a sudden I was thrust into the mainstream 39 00:03:05,796 --> 00:03:09,796 Speaker 1: of fending for myself. But I had no kind of 40 00:03:09,836 --> 00:03:14,756 Speaker 1: financial cushion to fall back on. So when he passed 41 00:03:14,756 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 1: away shortly after that, I was dismissed from the window 42 00:03:20,756 --> 00:03:24,116 Speaker 1: Phillips High School. And I had barely gotten into high 43 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:28,636 Speaker 1: school on a summer school program. And the last thing 44 00:03:29,116 --> 00:03:34,316 Speaker 1: that the guidance counselor told me as I was leaving out, 45 00:03:34,396 --> 00:03:37,076 Speaker 1: she said, oh, one more thing, Talbert, come back over here. 46 00:03:37,356 --> 00:03:39,636 Speaker 1: But she shook her well manecute finger in my face 47 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:42,116 Speaker 1: and said, I just want you to know you will 48 00:03:42,236 --> 00:03:49,396 Speaker 1: never ever amount to anything. Well that really set me 49 00:03:49,516 --> 00:03:56,996 Speaker 1: on a road for discovery for my recovering. My sister 50 00:03:57,116 --> 00:04:00,756 Speaker 1: lived at fifty seventh in Indiana. My parents weren't home 51 00:04:01,356 --> 00:04:05,356 Speaker 1: and my sister was home, so that was the only 52 00:04:05,396 --> 00:04:08,596 Speaker 1: place I could go, And so I went to my 53 00:04:08,596 --> 00:04:12,796 Speaker 1: sister's house. But I made a deal with God. Let's say, God, 54 00:04:12,836 --> 00:04:14,996 Speaker 1: if you come out of that sky and just get 55 00:04:15,076 --> 00:04:18,876 Speaker 1: right into my eye, let me have a very personal 56 00:04:19,476 --> 00:04:23,596 Speaker 1: relationship with you and let me discover the power of 57 00:04:23,676 --> 00:04:28,756 Speaker 1: you from inside. I want you to be personal with me. 58 00:04:29,036 --> 00:04:33,036 Speaker 1: I promised God two things that I would keep my 59 00:04:33,076 --> 00:04:37,836 Speaker 1: body clean, no drugs, no alcoholic beverages, and I would 60 00:04:37,876 --> 00:04:40,396 Speaker 1: work to make my mind keen. Since they wouldn't educate me, 61 00:04:40,396 --> 00:04:43,756 Speaker 1: I'd educate myself. So I walked from thirty ninth in 62 00:04:43,756 --> 00:04:48,716 Speaker 1: Indiana to fifty seventh in Indiana. Well fast forward to today, 63 00:04:49,316 --> 00:04:54,876 Speaker 1: I am sitting in a million dollar plus edifice that 64 00:04:55,476 --> 00:05:00,476 Speaker 1: I in my congregation erected in nineteen eighty two. But 65 00:05:00,596 --> 00:05:03,996 Speaker 1: guess where it sits. Justin It sits on the corner 66 00:05:04,436 --> 00:05:11,276 Speaker 1: of fifty fifth in Indiana, which means I walked across 67 00:05:11,716 --> 00:05:15,676 Speaker 1: this street when I was sixteen years old with an 68 00:05:15,676 --> 00:05:18,156 Speaker 1: ache in my heart, but the determination in my soul 69 00:05:18,836 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 1: that what that lady said about me, her negative prognostication, 70 00:05:23,996 --> 00:05:27,756 Speaker 1: would not become a positive fact to me. Today I 71 00:05:27,876 --> 00:05:33,236 Speaker 1: owned this corner. My name is on the street sign 72 00:05:33,756 --> 00:05:38,316 Speaker 1: for six blocks from fifty fifth and Lafayette, which is 73 00:05:38,356 --> 00:05:41,876 Speaker 1: where my old church was to fifty five in Indiana. 74 00:05:42,036 --> 00:05:47,676 Speaker 1: It's called T. L. Barrett Boulevard. So after my father died, 75 00:05:47,756 --> 00:05:51,956 Speaker 1: I went back to New York and that's where I 76 00:05:51,996 --> 00:05:54,236 Speaker 1: got my education. I went to the New York State 77 00:05:54,236 --> 00:05:58,756 Speaker 1: Board of Regents after cramming studying, then they gave me 78 00:05:58,796 --> 00:06:01,076 Speaker 1: my high school deployment. But then I came back to 79 00:06:01,196 --> 00:06:06,196 Speaker 1: Chicago because I wanted to find that lady and make 80 00:06:06,276 --> 00:06:11,196 Speaker 1: her aware of how wrong she was. Did you ever 81 00:06:11,516 --> 00:06:14,756 Speaker 1: come across that guidance counselor again? You know what? For 82 00:06:14,996 --> 00:06:19,676 Speaker 1: years I was on the radio, and for years I 83 00:06:19,676 --> 00:06:24,996 Speaker 1: would send her invitations to come to my church because 84 00:06:25,036 --> 00:06:28,596 Speaker 1: I had a seat reserved for her. I invited her 85 00:06:28,636 --> 00:06:30,236 Speaker 1: to come to my home because I had a guest 86 00:06:30,316 --> 00:06:34,836 Speaker 1: room reserved for her. But I found out from some 87 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:38,156 Speaker 1: others that she did hear me, but she was too 88 00:06:38,236 --> 00:06:42,836 Speaker 1: ashamed to come forward, so I never heard from her again. 89 00:06:43,076 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: What was the reason you were kicked out of school? 90 00:06:45,356 --> 00:06:50,356 Speaker 1: Because I was delinquent. I didn't understand then that my 91 00:06:50,476 --> 00:06:55,436 Speaker 1: creativity was causing my anxiety. But I didn't understand it then, 92 00:06:55,796 --> 00:07:00,196 Speaker 1: and I would never do anything that was negatively nefarious. 93 00:07:00,236 --> 00:07:03,876 Speaker 1: In study hall, I would get my trio and we'd 94 00:07:03,876 --> 00:07:08,036 Speaker 1: go behind the curtains in the assembly and we would 95 00:07:08,076 --> 00:07:11,876 Speaker 1: started playing music and have the whole assembly rocking. And 96 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: I get suspended for things like that. So now the 97 00:07:16,596 --> 00:07:19,236 Speaker 1: reason why I'm telling you all of this is to 98 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:21,716 Speaker 1: show you that some of my music was born out 99 00:07:21,716 --> 00:07:25,796 Speaker 1: of that pathos that I lived through. I felt like 100 00:07:26,516 --> 00:07:30,956 Speaker 1: I was like a ship without a sale, and that's 101 00:07:30,956 --> 00:07:37,796 Speaker 1: a pitiful thing, because ships have cargo, valuable cargo. I 102 00:07:38,036 --> 00:07:41,756 Speaker 1: felt that I had some valuable cargo that could make 103 00:07:42,756 --> 00:07:47,356 Speaker 1: an impressive contribution to the building of a greater society. 104 00:07:48,156 --> 00:07:50,876 Speaker 1: But I didn't have a sale. But I found myself. 105 00:07:50,876 --> 00:07:54,396 Speaker 1: So the song says, but I know we can make it. 106 00:07:55,076 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 1: I know we can take it, and no matter what 107 00:07:57,556 --> 00:07:59,596 Speaker 1: burdens are on us, I know we can shake it 108 00:08:00,436 --> 00:08:02,956 Speaker 1: because we are like ships. Don't ever forget that You're 109 00:08:02,996 --> 00:08:06,476 Speaker 1: like a ship. You have cargo, you have valuable cargo. 110 00:08:07,236 --> 00:08:14,076 Speaker 1: And then when I thought about being like a ship 111 00:08:14,076 --> 00:08:31,956 Speaker 1: without a sail, just like a sheep without shame, just 112 00:08:32,516 --> 00:08:44,316 Speaker 1: like a sheep, we same. And I know, but I 113 00:08:44,556 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: know we can make I know we can't take care. 114 00:08:53,796 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 1: I know we can take it, take cad. I know 115 00:09:01,036 --> 00:09:14,716 Speaker 1: we could shake it, sad man. So that began my 116 00:09:14,836 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 1: message to the young people. I drew young people to 117 00:09:19,516 --> 00:09:22,156 Speaker 1: my ministry in that little church on a one way 118 00:09:22,196 --> 00:09:25,036 Speaker 1: street going north called Lifiat Avenue, and every Tuesday night, 119 00:09:25,516 --> 00:09:30,076 Speaker 1: young people would come from everywhere, and then celebrity started 120 00:09:30,116 --> 00:09:34,516 Speaker 1: hearing about those young people. People like Donnie Hathaway found 121 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:37,836 Speaker 1: his way there one night, and then Earthwind and Fire, 122 00:09:38,516 --> 00:09:42,196 Speaker 1: Philip Bailey, who's the lead singer, Andrew Warfolk who's a 123 00:09:42,236 --> 00:09:45,796 Speaker 1: horn player, and Larry Dunn who's a drummer. They all 124 00:09:45,876 --> 00:09:49,076 Speaker 1: came over there that night, and the message that they 125 00:09:49,156 --> 00:09:53,396 Speaker 1: heard touched their hearts, and the young people that they saw, 126 00:09:54,756 --> 00:10:00,316 Speaker 1: that amalgamation of message and meaningful ministry touched their hearts. 127 00:10:01,076 --> 00:10:06,196 Speaker 1: I became the spiritual counselor to Earth Wind and Fire. 128 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:10,316 Speaker 1: So before sixteen, would you say you grew up were 129 00:10:10,356 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 1: you spiritual or were you a believer? Did you grew 130 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:16,396 Speaker 1: up going to church? My father was a minister. My 131 00:10:16,516 --> 00:10:20,156 Speaker 1: father was a preacher. I already had a strong moral 132 00:10:20,196 --> 00:10:24,356 Speaker 1: compass embedded within me. You know, your dad was a minister. 133 00:10:24,556 --> 00:10:26,476 Speaker 1: There was like an attention or an anxiety that you 134 00:10:26,516 --> 00:10:28,636 Speaker 1: were feeling, And it's almost feels like there was a 135 00:10:28,756 --> 00:10:33,196 Speaker 1: tension maybe between your sort of church religious life, in 136 00:10:33,276 --> 00:10:37,636 Speaker 1: her spiritual life, and between maybe music, which maybe felt 137 00:10:37,676 --> 00:10:40,436 Speaker 1: like a more of a worldly poll. I'm just curious 138 00:10:40,556 --> 00:10:43,356 Speaker 1: where that anxiety was coming from. Where you feel your 139 00:10:43,356 --> 00:10:46,956 Speaker 1: creativity also came from. It was born out of frustration, 140 00:10:47,956 --> 00:10:51,756 Speaker 1: you see, I almost turned against the church. You see, 141 00:10:51,796 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 1: I never even graduated from grammar school. They would keep 142 00:10:54,756 --> 00:10:59,076 Speaker 1: us in church almost every night. I'm past midnight, and 143 00:10:59,156 --> 00:11:02,196 Speaker 1: I would be sleeping in school the next day, and 144 00:11:02,476 --> 00:11:05,156 Speaker 1: I remember my teacher said, why are you sleeping? I said, 145 00:11:05,156 --> 00:11:06,996 Speaker 1: because I was at church last night. And then when 146 00:11:06,996 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: I would tell my father and the church members, they 147 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 1: would say, well, those people are they don't know God, 148 00:11:12,316 --> 00:11:16,156 Speaker 1: and Jesus is coming back any day now, and you'll 149 00:11:16,156 --> 00:11:18,356 Speaker 1: be ready to go to heaven. And well, as you know, 150 00:11:18,556 --> 00:11:21,836 Speaker 1: Jesus didn't come back. I got left back. So I 151 00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:26,436 Speaker 1: had to fight back and and I said, God, I'm 152 00:11:26,476 --> 00:11:31,236 Speaker 1: not going to teach that kind of theology because it 153 00:11:31,276 --> 00:11:35,476 Speaker 1: doesn't inspire you. If you're going to church and you're 154 00:11:35,596 --> 00:11:39,956 Speaker 1: hearing that any day now Jesus is going to come 155 00:11:39,956 --> 00:11:42,356 Speaker 1: back and take us all the way, then why would 156 00:11:42,356 --> 00:11:46,476 Speaker 1: you struggle with math and and algebra. So when I 157 00:11:46,556 --> 00:11:49,756 Speaker 1: found out that I was being left back, then I 158 00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:53,756 Speaker 1: begin to fight back and I and I just it 159 00:11:53,836 --> 00:11:57,116 Speaker 1: came out in a lot of negative ways, and they 160 00:11:57,196 --> 00:11:59,836 Speaker 1: just put me out of most of the schools on 161 00:11:59,876 --> 00:12:03,396 Speaker 1: the South side of Chicago. But it wasn't until that 162 00:12:03,476 --> 00:12:07,036 Speaker 1: lady told me that I would never amount to nothing 163 00:12:07,196 --> 00:12:11,076 Speaker 1: and that's when the shock of that reality that I'm 164 00:12:11,116 --> 00:12:14,356 Speaker 1: out here by myself hit me and that I'm gonna 165 00:12:14,396 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: have to seek my own relationship with God. And I did. 166 00:12:20,396 --> 00:12:24,676 Speaker 1: We'll call new thought theology. It's not about a God 167 00:12:24,716 --> 00:12:27,076 Speaker 1: in the sky, It's about a God in your eye, 168 00:12:28,076 --> 00:12:30,876 Speaker 1: just like I'm talking to you right now, I'm talking 169 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,716 Speaker 1: to God. Why not? Why do I say that? Because 170 00:12:33,996 --> 00:12:37,196 Speaker 1: man is the only creature that God created, not living. 171 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:39,996 Speaker 1: So I teach people to do unto others, not as 172 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:41,796 Speaker 1: you would have others to do unto you, but do 173 00:12:41,876 --> 00:12:44,676 Speaker 1: unto others that you would do unto God. Not all 174 00:12:44,716 --> 00:12:47,316 Speaker 1: living things have the presence and the energy of God 175 00:12:47,316 --> 00:12:50,796 Speaker 1: in them, But the human beings are the represent tours 176 00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:53,956 Speaker 1: of God. See, every time I get a chance to 177 00:12:54,076 --> 00:12:58,276 Speaker 1: meet another human being, that's my chance to represent God 178 00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:00,756 Speaker 1: to them. And that's why I have to treat you 179 00:13:00,796 --> 00:13:04,516 Speaker 1: like you are a celebrity, even if I don't know 180 00:13:04,596 --> 00:13:08,436 Speaker 1: your name. So if man and woman are representurs of God, 181 00:13:08,636 --> 00:13:13,196 Speaker 1: that's right. Is music with music, with art with dance, 182 00:13:13,876 --> 00:13:18,036 Speaker 1: They're all kinds of ways. And the beautiful part about 183 00:13:18,116 --> 00:13:22,836 Speaker 1: life is God does not discriminate on who that breath, 184 00:13:23,236 --> 00:13:28,756 Speaker 1: that creative breath of God is bequeathed too. That's why 185 00:13:28,796 --> 00:13:33,036 Speaker 1: in our church we don't judge anyone now anything that 186 00:13:33,156 --> 00:13:36,276 Speaker 1: is perverse, yes, but we do not sit in the 187 00:13:36,436 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 1: seat of judgment against anyone. I like that. We'll be 188 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:44,596 Speaker 1: right back with more from Pastor til Barrett. After a 189 00:13:44,676 --> 00:13:52,076 Speaker 1: quick break, we're back with Pastor til Barrett to take 190 00:13:52,076 --> 00:13:54,716 Speaker 1: it back to childhood and music. Yeah, what were you 191 00:13:54,756 --> 00:13:58,196 Speaker 1: listening to? I mean, you're growing up in two hotbeds 192 00:13:58,236 --> 00:14:03,236 Speaker 1: of just beautiful Black American music between New York City 193 00:14:03,356 --> 00:14:06,356 Speaker 1: and Chicago and the forties, fifties and sixties. What are 194 00:14:06,356 --> 00:14:09,956 Speaker 1: you taking in? Man? My father was a guitar player 195 00:14:10,236 --> 00:14:13,196 Speaker 1: and he had a group called the Southern Wonders, a 196 00:14:13,276 --> 00:14:16,716 Speaker 1: gospel singing group, and then he formed us once he 197 00:14:16,796 --> 00:14:19,596 Speaker 1: had us, my brother and my sister myself into a 198 00:14:19,636 --> 00:14:23,356 Speaker 1: group of singers called the Barrett Singers. So we grew 199 00:14:23,436 --> 00:14:26,716 Speaker 1: up listening to and you won't know anything about these 200 00:14:26,756 --> 00:14:30,196 Speaker 1: groups like the Swan Silver Tones. Come on, that's where 201 00:14:30,196 --> 00:14:34,316 Speaker 1: Bridge Over Trouble of Water comes from. Okay, do you remember, Yeah, 202 00:14:34,356 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 1: Sam Cook and the Soul Stirs. We grew up listening 203 00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:43,396 Speaker 1: to them. We would travel the circuit with pop Staples 204 00:14:43,956 --> 00:14:47,196 Speaker 1: and the Staples singers. Wow. Yeah, Mavis and I and 205 00:14:47,276 --> 00:14:49,676 Speaker 1: the Staples we were We were very tight when you 206 00:14:49,716 --> 00:14:52,596 Speaker 1: were a kid. Yeah, Pop. Staples and my father were 207 00:14:52,716 --> 00:14:55,916 Speaker 1: very close, and the Staples and the Barrats. Whatever you 208 00:14:55,956 --> 00:14:58,916 Speaker 1: saw the Staples singers, you usually saw the Barretts singers 209 00:14:59,116 --> 00:15:02,876 Speaker 1: until they went totally pop. Then they took off like rockets. 210 00:15:03,036 --> 00:15:06,876 Speaker 1: My father stayed with the church and that genre, so 211 00:15:07,196 --> 00:15:11,316 Speaker 1: I was inspired by that music but also had an 212 00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:19,076 Speaker 1: ear for jazz. I became a jazz pianist. I got 213 00:15:19,116 --> 00:15:23,036 Speaker 1: a gig at the Waldorf Astoria when I was seventeen 214 00:15:23,116 --> 00:15:26,796 Speaker 1: years old. I would play every New Year's Eve. There 215 00:15:26,876 --> 00:15:29,516 Speaker 1: was this group that would hire me to play. I 216 00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 1: was mixing the two, preaching the gospel and you know, 217 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:37,116 Speaker 1: trying to play jazz music at the same time. And 218 00:15:37,156 --> 00:15:40,076 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I became a pastor that I was 219 00:15:40,116 --> 00:15:44,956 Speaker 1: able to merge the two. And my favorite pianist was 220 00:15:45,156 --> 00:15:48,636 Speaker 1: Eryl Ghanner. I didn't know about Errol Ghanner, but people 221 00:15:48,676 --> 00:15:51,756 Speaker 1: would tell me, said, you remind me of erl Ghanner 222 00:15:51,836 --> 00:15:54,116 Speaker 1: with a syncopated left hand. Well, first of all, I 223 00:15:54,116 --> 00:15:58,836 Speaker 1: didn't know what syncopatient was. I thought I said, there's 224 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:02,556 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with my hand. That said old. I thought 225 00:16:02,556 --> 00:16:04,716 Speaker 1: they were saying I had a crippled hand or something, 226 00:16:04,916 --> 00:16:07,796 Speaker 1: but it was the rhythmic pattern that he would keep 227 00:16:07,956 --> 00:16:10,116 Speaker 1: with his left hand. I know one of my albums, 228 00:16:10,156 --> 00:16:11,956 Speaker 1: I think it's like a ship. I do a piano 229 00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:16,236 Speaker 1: solo that's call Blessed Quietness and it's kind of a 230 00:16:16,236 --> 00:16:22,436 Speaker 1: parent there. So, Oscar Peterson, Errol Garner very very strong 231 00:16:22,556 --> 00:16:25,716 Speaker 1: influences on my music. Can you can you show us 232 00:16:25,756 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 1: what it means to play like Karma like Errol Garner? Okay, 233 00:16:29,876 --> 00:16:31,396 Speaker 1: there was a song you used to play. It's an 234 00:16:31,396 --> 00:16:34,556 Speaker 1: old song called what are you gonna do? You're undecided? 235 00:16:34,596 --> 00:18:10,316 Speaker 1: Now what are you gonna do? Here? Got don who? 236 00:18:10,716 --> 00:18:12,876 Speaker 1: And what's going on that left hand? What's like? What? What? 237 00:18:12,876 --> 00:18:15,916 Speaker 1: What is uh? Is that? I don't know? That's I mean, 238 00:18:15,916 --> 00:18:19,796 Speaker 1: it just came. That's where I started playing, and they 239 00:18:19,836 --> 00:18:22,196 Speaker 1: told me that that was erl Donna stun. Then I 240 00:18:22,236 --> 00:18:25,996 Speaker 1: started listening to him. That's it. I don't know how 241 00:18:26,756 --> 00:18:28,596 Speaker 1: so is that what should be playing at the Waldorf 242 00:18:28,676 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 1: Historia as well? That sort of thing? Yeah, well, it 243 00:18:32,916 --> 00:18:35,876 Speaker 1: was all secular music at the wall doorf because you know, 244 00:18:36,076 --> 00:18:39,236 Speaker 1: people celebrating the New Year's Eve, and they wanted to 245 00:18:39,316 --> 00:18:51,716 Speaker 1: hear things like, look at me as a kitten clinging 246 00:18:51,876 --> 00:19:03,116 Speaker 1: to apply. I can't understand. I get misty, holding your hand? 247 00:19:08,156 --> 00:19:21,596 Speaker 1: WHOA my word? And then violins begin to play. Might 248 00:19:21,716 --> 00:19:29,436 Speaker 1: be the sound of yar hello this mute ar? I 249 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:46,996 Speaker 1: get misty. The more union you know, play songs like that, gorgeous, gorgeous? 250 00:19:47,876 --> 00:19:52,916 Speaker 1: How did you start playing piano? Jealousy. My brother had 251 00:19:52,996 --> 00:19:57,876 Speaker 1: a godmother named Honey Wade, and she loved my brother 252 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:00,996 Speaker 1: so much because he was a pretty boy. They called 253 00:20:01,036 --> 00:20:04,956 Speaker 1: him pretty boy George, and she sent him to music school. 254 00:20:05,836 --> 00:20:08,956 Speaker 1: But I wasn't very attractive, so nobody would send me 255 00:20:09,196 --> 00:20:11,996 Speaker 1: music school. My mother and father couldn't afford to. So 256 00:20:12,836 --> 00:20:16,076 Speaker 1: I would try to mimic my brother, and I would 257 00:20:16,076 --> 00:20:18,796 Speaker 1: try to play the piano. I couldn't make any harmony, 258 00:20:19,196 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 1: just mashing the key, and you couldn't tell me I 259 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:32,916 Speaker 1: wasn't jamming and I had rhythm, and that's how it 260 00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:41,636 Speaker 1: would sound. So my brother got tired of that and 261 00:20:41,796 --> 00:20:44,036 Speaker 1: he said, Junior. He called me Junior. He said, look, 262 00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:45,996 Speaker 1: if you want to make harmonies, so you're not making 263 00:20:46,036 --> 00:20:48,476 Speaker 1: any harmony. So if you want to make harmony, you 264 00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:53,556 Speaker 1: gotta spread your fingers out and leave a space in between. 265 00:20:54,836 --> 00:20:58,036 Speaker 1: Then I heard the harmony. And when I heard the harmony, 266 00:20:58,156 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: then I put the rhythm to it. That's how it 267 00:21:01,676 --> 00:22:17,076 Speaker 1: came out. Oh man, We'll be right back in a 268 00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:24,516 Speaker 1: moment with more of my conversation with Pastor Tlberrett. We're 269 00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:27,676 Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Pastor Tlbert. 270 00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:32,756 Speaker 1: Is it true you have a distant relation to Reverend cl. 271 00:22:32,836 --> 00:22:37,916 Speaker 1: Franklin and Areta Franklin. Yes. My daddy told me that 272 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:41,596 Speaker 1: he and Reverend Franklin were cousins, and he told me, 273 00:22:41,676 --> 00:22:43,676 Speaker 1: he said that if you ever get a chance to 274 00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:49,356 Speaker 1: meet him, mentioned my name. And so one day I 275 00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:53,876 Speaker 1: was traveling with either Anez Andrews or the Caravans was 276 00:22:53,956 --> 00:22:56,756 Speaker 1: one of those groups I was traveling with, and they 277 00:22:56,836 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 1: were on the same program with Reverend C. L. Franklin 278 00:22:59,196 --> 00:23:03,436 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, New York. So after the performances were over, 279 00:23:04,156 --> 00:23:07,196 Speaker 1: I got a chance to go up to him. I said, 280 00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:10,836 Speaker 1: Reverend Franklin, I'm TL Barrett from Chicago. And my father 281 00:23:10,996 --> 00:23:13,396 Speaker 1: told me that if I ever met you, to tell 282 00:23:13,476 --> 00:23:17,196 Speaker 1: you that he is Tom Barrett. He said, Tom Barrett 283 00:23:17,956 --> 00:23:20,476 Speaker 1: and he said the town from Mississippi. He said, yeah, 284 00:23:20,956 --> 00:23:23,996 Speaker 1: he said, asked my cousin man, I said, well, I'm 285 00:23:24,116 --> 00:23:30,436 Speaker 1: his son. He embraced me, invited me to come to 286 00:23:30,636 --> 00:23:35,436 Speaker 1: Detroit and preach at his church. I invited him to 287 00:23:35,516 --> 00:23:39,276 Speaker 1: come and preach at my church in Chicago, and he came, 288 00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:43,036 Speaker 1: and I went to Detroit and preach at his church, 289 00:23:43,996 --> 00:23:47,996 Speaker 1: and he loved me so much. His mother jumped on 290 00:23:48,156 --> 00:23:51,996 Speaker 1: my back while I was preaching. She was so she 291 00:23:52,196 --> 00:23:55,396 Speaker 1: was full of the Holy Spirit, and we were about 292 00:23:55,436 --> 00:24:01,556 Speaker 1: to establish a tremendous family relationship. He was going to 293 00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:06,116 Speaker 1: bring me into meeting with Rita. But shortly after I 294 00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:08,716 Speaker 1: pre sat his church, there was a break in at 295 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:13,076 Speaker 1: his house and he was shot, and he stayed in 296 00:24:13,156 --> 00:24:16,316 Speaker 1: a coma for six or eight months and never recovered. 297 00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:19,596 Speaker 1: So I never was able to make that wreck connection 298 00:24:20,476 --> 00:24:23,956 Speaker 1: with me and Aretha. She had heard about me, but 299 00:24:24,156 --> 00:24:27,356 Speaker 1: you know, she traveled so much that we never got 300 00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:30,636 Speaker 1: a chance to connect. She was a wreath by that point, right, Oh, yeah, 301 00:24:30,796 --> 00:24:33,756 Speaker 1: she was. She was a wreathing. What was the gospel 302 00:24:33,836 --> 00:24:37,276 Speaker 1: circuit like at that time? It seems like the sixties 303 00:24:37,436 --> 00:24:41,116 Speaker 1: was a very wonderful time for gospel music. There was 304 00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:44,956 Speaker 1: a lot going on, very colorful time. I'm curious what 305 00:24:45,676 --> 00:24:48,236 Speaker 1: that gospel circuit was like in the sixties. I didn't 306 00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:52,996 Speaker 1: start making records until the mid seventies, but I was 307 00:24:53,116 --> 00:24:57,716 Speaker 1: privileged to be with some of the gospel singers who 308 00:24:57,756 --> 00:25:02,596 Speaker 1: were arcing at that time, such as James Cleveland and 309 00:25:02,756 --> 00:25:07,356 Speaker 1: as Andrews Albertina Walker. So I was able to be 310 00:25:07,476 --> 00:25:13,876 Speaker 1: around them, but I wasn't really part of that because 311 00:25:13,876 --> 00:25:16,356 Speaker 1: I was just a young teenager. Then by the time 312 00:25:16,396 --> 00:25:19,236 Speaker 1: you start making records in the seventies, is the goal 313 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:24,436 Speaker 1: only to make music for your congregation and congregations you 314 00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:27,316 Speaker 1: might visit, or is the goal to bring the music 315 00:25:27,396 --> 00:25:30,396 Speaker 1: toe a larger audience? Or I mean, is it is 316 00:25:30,436 --> 00:25:33,356 Speaker 1: the goal musical? Is the goal religious in nature? Or 317 00:25:33,436 --> 00:25:39,196 Speaker 1: spiritual in nature? The goal was to bring to fruition 318 00:25:39,316 --> 00:25:43,876 Speaker 1: the promise that I made to those young people. I 319 00:25:44,076 --> 00:25:47,756 Speaker 1: told them that you could become famous, some of you 320 00:25:47,876 --> 00:25:51,596 Speaker 1: can become superstars, and you don't have to live within 321 00:25:51,796 --> 00:25:57,076 Speaker 1: the strictors and the throes of the drug culture. You 322 00:25:57,196 --> 00:26:01,156 Speaker 1: can be the representatus of God and still make it 323 00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:04,396 Speaker 1: in that life. And we have some who who have 324 00:26:04,876 --> 00:26:07,796 Speaker 1: been able to do that. So the goal wasn't necessarily 325 00:26:07,956 --> 00:26:12,516 Speaker 1: only just to make us for the congregation. No, no, 326 00:26:12,796 --> 00:26:17,356 Speaker 1: you're okay with success in the music business, larger music business. 327 00:26:17,436 --> 00:26:22,516 Speaker 1: That was okay with you. And I'm just so grateful 328 00:26:23,196 --> 00:26:26,116 Speaker 1: to God that my music caught the ear of Rob 329 00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:32,676 Speaker 1: Severe and Numero Uno, because just to see some of 330 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:37,476 Speaker 1: those young people that trusted me, for them to have 331 00:26:37,756 --> 00:26:41,196 Speaker 1: their children and their grandchildren sit down and listen to 332 00:26:41,516 --> 00:26:46,196 Speaker 1: recordings that they were children singing on, It's just an 333 00:26:46,236 --> 00:26:50,996 Speaker 1: awesome reward for me because I told them that this 334 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:54,356 Speaker 1: day would happen. I just didn't know when or how, 335 00:26:55,276 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 1: but it is actually happening for people who don't know. 336 00:26:58,996 --> 00:27:02,956 Speaker 1: You know, your records became very popular after they got 337 00:27:03,036 --> 00:27:06,396 Speaker 1: re released much later in time. You never DIBt of 338 00:27:06,436 --> 00:27:10,676 Speaker 1: the songs, your talent never. Wow, how did it feel 339 00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:14,556 Speaker 1: all those years later? I mean forty years later, Numeral 340 00:27:14,636 --> 00:27:18,156 Speaker 1: Group hit you up to rerelease your records, and you know, 341 00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:22,116 Speaker 1: people start rediscovering your music from forty years ago. When 342 00:27:22,156 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 1: when did you first learn that people were finally picking 343 00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:29,116 Speaker 1: up on your records. I think it was when I 344 00:27:29,276 --> 00:27:33,596 Speaker 1: received a call from Rob Severa. That's when I really 345 00:27:33,716 --> 00:27:37,476 Speaker 1: realized that. And then they said, we want to do 346 00:27:37,636 --> 00:27:41,556 Speaker 1: something with your music. I said, wow, They said, but 347 00:27:41,716 --> 00:27:44,636 Speaker 1: we need to have you on the contract. So I 348 00:27:44,716 --> 00:27:47,916 Speaker 1: think I signed a contract for one song. Then it 349 00:27:48,036 --> 00:27:51,556 Speaker 1: became another album. Then I think I became just their artist. 350 00:27:52,116 --> 00:27:54,076 Speaker 1: It seems like all those years ago you knew to 351 00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:56,716 Speaker 1: have faith in your music, but it still must have 352 00:27:56,756 --> 00:27:59,516 Speaker 1: been surprising, just out of the blue one day you 353 00:27:59,556 --> 00:28:03,076 Speaker 1: get in this call no No. I have a theology 354 00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:11,076 Speaker 1: philosophy that says true believers cannot be surprised. You live 355 00:28:11,316 --> 00:28:17,396 Speaker 1: in expectation instead of agitation. Every time the phone rings, 356 00:28:17,676 --> 00:28:20,476 Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, this is the one. But just living 357 00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:23,636 Speaker 1: in that amount of expectation and believe, is that ever disappointing? 358 00:28:24,196 --> 00:28:28,396 Speaker 1: Of course it's disappointing man forty years believing something for 359 00:28:28,556 --> 00:28:32,356 Speaker 1: forty years, of course it can be disappointing. But if 360 00:28:32,396 --> 00:28:35,956 Speaker 1: you are a true believer, you keep believing. But see, 361 00:28:36,476 --> 00:28:39,916 Speaker 1: the Bible says faith of that works is dead. So 362 00:28:40,076 --> 00:28:43,276 Speaker 1: I teach our people pray like you believe it depends 363 00:28:43,276 --> 00:28:45,756 Speaker 1: on God, but work like you believe it depends on you. 364 00:28:46,036 --> 00:28:49,596 Speaker 1: That's how you get it to work. Because life is 365 00:28:49,636 --> 00:28:53,836 Speaker 1: a joint investment adventure between you and God. Given your 366 00:28:53,836 --> 00:28:58,236 Speaker 1: connections to people like Philip Bailey, Verdine White, Maurice White. 367 00:28:58,996 --> 00:29:00,956 Speaker 1: You mentioned that Donny Hathaway. At some point it come 368 00:29:01,196 --> 00:29:04,996 Speaker 1: through your congregation. You're in Chicago, you know where all 369 00:29:05,036 --> 00:29:08,436 Speaker 1: this great R and B is happening. Did you ever think, well, 370 00:29:08,476 --> 00:29:11,916 Speaker 1: maybe I won't make gospel music, maybe I'll make R 371 00:29:11,996 --> 00:29:17,636 Speaker 1: and B. No, because I did not segregate or label 372 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:22,116 Speaker 1: my music. I just made music. I mean God's music. 373 00:29:23,596 --> 00:29:28,596 Speaker 1: God's music is gospel, God's music is secular. Just like 374 00:29:28,716 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 1: I wrote a song that says it goes like this, Oh, 375 00:29:32,716 --> 00:29:35,676 Speaker 1: I want to be in love with you. Oh, I 376 00:29:35,756 --> 00:29:38,876 Speaker 1: want to be in love with you. Oh I want 377 00:29:38,916 --> 00:29:41,076 Speaker 1: to be in love with you. That's what the Lord 378 00:29:41,276 --> 00:29:44,516 Speaker 1: said to me. Oh, I want to take you by 379 00:29:44,636 --> 00:29:48,436 Speaker 1: your hand while you're living in this evil ladin. All 380 00:29:48,556 --> 00:29:52,836 Speaker 1: you need to do is trust me. Now, that same 381 00:29:52,956 --> 00:29:59,076 Speaker 1: song can be transposed into that's what my man said 382 00:29:59,156 --> 00:30:01,636 Speaker 1: to me, or that's what my lady said to me. 383 00:30:01,716 --> 00:30:03,316 Speaker 1: I want to be in love with you. It's the 384 00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 1: same message I said it long time ago. That's another 385 00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:10,876 Speaker 1: song that I wrote. I said it a long time ago, 386 00:30:12,356 --> 00:30:16,276 Speaker 1: said a long time ago, I love you. So now 387 00:30:16,556 --> 00:30:20,236 Speaker 1: now that can be sung in a nightclub, or it 388 00:30:20,276 --> 00:30:22,836 Speaker 1: can be sung in church. Because God did say a 389 00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:26,636 Speaker 1: long time ago, I love you. I told my wife 390 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:29,276 Speaker 1: fifty six years ago. We've been married fifty three years. 391 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:32,556 Speaker 1: I sing that to her. I said it a long 392 00:30:32,636 --> 00:30:35,356 Speaker 1: time ago. Then there's a part in the song saying 393 00:30:35,556 --> 00:30:40,036 Speaker 1: and I am saying the same thing today, the same 394 00:30:40,076 --> 00:30:41,836 Speaker 1: thing I said a long time ago. I'm saying the 395 00:30:41,876 --> 00:30:45,196 Speaker 1: same thing today that I'll still make a way. It's 396 00:30:45,276 --> 00:30:50,236 Speaker 1: not gospel, it's not secular. It's just music. It's God's music. 397 00:30:50,876 --> 00:30:54,356 Speaker 1: That's one reason when my broadcast was so popular, because 398 00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:58,916 Speaker 1: I played Earth Winding Fire on my gospel program. The 399 00:30:59,076 --> 00:31:03,236 Speaker 1: music is very spiritual. Yes, I played keep your Head 400 00:31:03,316 --> 00:31:07,116 Speaker 1: to the Sky. I played you a shining star. No 401 00:31:07,276 --> 00:31:11,556 Speaker 1: matter who you are, God sent you here to sign 402 00:31:11,756 --> 00:31:15,916 Speaker 1: right to see what you can truly be. That's gospel, man, 403 00:31:16,076 --> 00:31:18,596 Speaker 1: Come on. That was bold enough to play it on 404 00:31:18,756 --> 00:31:21,956 Speaker 1: my program. And that's why Earth Win and Fight. When 405 00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:23,876 Speaker 1: they would be traveling, no matter where they were, they 406 00:31:23,916 --> 00:31:26,556 Speaker 1: would call me early in the morning because they knew 407 00:31:26,556 --> 00:31:30,196 Speaker 1: I would be playing their music and Donnie Hathaway's music 408 00:31:30,916 --> 00:31:34,196 Speaker 1: and anybody else who had a message that would uplift mankind, 409 00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,636 Speaker 1: How did you first get the idea to record? Like? 410 00:31:36,796 --> 00:31:39,636 Speaker 1: Where did that come from? The desire to make a record? 411 00:31:40,116 --> 00:31:42,796 Speaker 1: So to answer you a question about how did I 412 00:31:42,876 --> 00:31:46,596 Speaker 1: start writing music? I'm looking around and seeing everybody else 413 00:31:47,916 --> 00:31:50,956 Speaker 1: is writing and recording music, so I thought it would 414 00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:54,156 Speaker 1: be good for me to record music too. So I 415 00:31:54,276 --> 00:31:59,036 Speaker 1: went to Paul Serrano at Soronto Studios and said, man, 416 00:31:59,036 --> 00:32:00,516 Speaker 1: I want to make some music. I want to make 417 00:32:00,516 --> 00:32:03,076 Speaker 1: a record. He said, you got some music as a Yeah, 418 00:32:03,316 --> 00:32:05,676 Speaker 1: he heard my music. He said, man, this is fantastic. 419 00:32:06,236 --> 00:32:09,196 Speaker 1: So Paul Santo at P and S Studios record to 420 00:32:09,396 --> 00:32:12,876 Speaker 1: us and we started shopping it around. Stax Records picked 421 00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:17,836 Speaker 1: us up and signed me to a contract. And where 422 00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:20,556 Speaker 1: did the songs on the first record come from? When 423 00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:22,396 Speaker 1: you hadn't made a record yet, you get the idea, 424 00:32:22,476 --> 00:32:25,436 Speaker 1: you go to the studio. I was just writing songs, 425 00:32:25,636 --> 00:32:28,236 Speaker 1: and I just recorded some of those songs that I wrote. 426 00:32:28,476 --> 00:32:31,396 Speaker 1: How long have those songs been around? Older than you are? 427 00:32:32,556 --> 00:32:35,276 Speaker 1: I'm telling you these songs, either the ones that I 428 00:32:35,396 --> 00:32:38,756 Speaker 1: wrote or rearranged. The ones that I rearranged have been 429 00:32:38,796 --> 00:32:41,956 Speaker 1: around for millennia. But the ones that I wrote, I 430 00:32:42,036 --> 00:32:45,396 Speaker 1: wrote them in the late sixties and early seventies with 431 00:32:45,596 --> 00:32:47,636 Speaker 1: the goal of putting them on the record. Or was 432 00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,316 Speaker 1: this just I was just writing? But then when I 433 00:32:50,436 --> 00:32:55,716 Speaker 1: decided that I should record too, then I started selecting 434 00:32:55,796 --> 00:32:58,796 Speaker 1: the songs that I wanted to go on the records. Wow, 435 00:33:00,236 --> 00:33:03,196 Speaker 1: are you still writing songs today? Yes, when I feel 436 00:33:03,276 --> 00:33:07,916 Speaker 1: like it, I write more. I write sermons and thoughts 437 00:33:07,996 --> 00:33:11,716 Speaker 1: for the day, just things that make you think that's 438 00:33:11,796 --> 00:33:15,116 Speaker 1: beautiful man. Yeah, so that's what I write now. I 439 00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:18,036 Speaker 1: write sermons, I write thoughts for the day, and you 440 00:33:18,116 --> 00:33:20,556 Speaker 1: can put some of those sermons to music. But that's 441 00:33:20,756 --> 00:33:23,996 Speaker 1: my main focus is writing. I write right, right, right 442 00:33:24,116 --> 00:33:26,076 Speaker 1: all the time. Do you put some of those thoughts 443 00:33:26,116 --> 00:33:28,756 Speaker 1: to music. Yes? When's the last time you put something 444 00:33:28,796 --> 00:33:31,156 Speaker 1: new you wrote down to music? When's the last time 445 00:33:31,196 --> 00:33:34,396 Speaker 1: that happened. I think it was Sunday because I wrote 446 00:33:34,436 --> 00:33:40,836 Speaker 1: the thought that says, let's think deeper before we sink deeper. 447 00:33:42,796 --> 00:33:46,316 Speaker 1: So we're writing a song around that. Would you mind 448 00:33:46,636 --> 00:33:50,276 Speaker 1: showing us how you might work one of your thoughts 449 00:33:50,356 --> 00:33:53,596 Speaker 1: that you have, like think deeper before you sink deeper, 450 00:33:53,836 --> 00:33:57,396 Speaker 1: how you might work that into some music. Okay, let's 451 00:33:57,396 --> 00:34:25,436 Speaker 1: sing you better sink deeper before you sink deeper. You 452 00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:37,236 Speaker 1: might be able to keeper if you think deeper, not 453 00:34:37,516 --> 00:34:50,956 Speaker 1: make up weaker. It's up to you. Sink deeper before 454 00:34:51,036 --> 00:35:01,076 Speaker 1: you sink deeper. Stuff like that. Oh man, that's wonderful. 455 00:35:01,836 --> 00:35:04,476 Speaker 1: I discovered your music, like a lot of people, through 456 00:35:04,636 --> 00:35:08,276 Speaker 1: the algorithm of streaming services like Spotify, So I got 457 00:35:08,316 --> 00:35:10,156 Speaker 1: to your music fell in love with it right away. 458 00:35:10,196 --> 00:35:12,316 Speaker 1: There was just something different in it that I hadn't 459 00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:13,996 Speaker 1: heard in a lot of gospel music. I loved it 460 00:35:14,916 --> 00:35:18,236 Speaker 1: this collection that Numeral Group put together that it was 461 00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:20,916 Speaker 1: the first time I've heard you're preaching. Oh, it's the 462 00:35:20,956 --> 00:35:23,196 Speaker 1: first time I've ever heard it, and I'm glad it's 463 00:35:23,196 --> 00:35:25,036 Speaker 1: going to be on streaming now because it's really interesting 464 00:35:25,596 --> 00:35:28,196 Speaker 1: and one of the sermons, how would you like to 465 00:35:28,276 --> 00:35:30,756 Speaker 1: have a nice Hawaiian punch is the title of it. 466 00:35:31,556 --> 00:35:33,716 Speaker 1: I mean, I was surprised by the fact that you 467 00:35:33,956 --> 00:35:39,476 Speaker 1: were not afraid to be political, and really at the 468 00:35:39,636 --> 00:35:41,996 Speaker 1: local level. I mean, you were talking about getting people 469 00:35:42,716 --> 00:35:45,756 Speaker 1: that you should be registered to vote and hold politicians 470 00:35:45,836 --> 00:35:49,436 Speaker 1: to account. And I'm curious, especially when I speak with 471 00:35:49,516 --> 00:35:52,276 Speaker 1: older black folk who were around lived through the Civil 472 00:35:52,356 --> 00:35:53,996 Speaker 1: rights movement and all that sort of thing. It feels 473 00:35:54,036 --> 00:35:57,476 Speaker 1: like it must have been impossible not to be invested 474 00:35:57,556 --> 00:36:01,156 Speaker 1: in politics. But rarely did I hear in that day 475 00:36:01,796 --> 00:36:04,276 Speaker 1: sermons and be with that kind of politics, unless we're 476 00:36:04,276 --> 00:36:07,636 Speaker 1: talking about doctor King. I suppose, well, you're seeing I 477 00:36:07,796 --> 00:36:13,876 Speaker 1: had the good fortune to be considered unfortunate, not having 478 00:36:14,636 --> 00:36:18,276 Speaker 1: either parent. Just being out here on my own at 479 00:36:18,356 --> 00:36:22,356 Speaker 1: sixteen years of age, I had a chance to see 480 00:36:23,156 --> 00:36:26,476 Speaker 1: what actually makes the world go around. I actually got 481 00:36:26,516 --> 00:36:30,476 Speaker 1: a chance to see that politics plays a great part 482 00:36:31,276 --> 00:36:36,156 Speaker 1: in the living conditions of our people. And the only 483 00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:43,036 Speaker 1: thing that would change that would be political change. And 484 00:36:43,156 --> 00:36:46,396 Speaker 1: so I challenge my people to don't just join the church, 485 00:36:46,476 --> 00:36:50,316 Speaker 1: but join your civic organizations as well. I said, in 486 00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:52,076 Speaker 1: order to be a member of life in the church, 487 00:36:52,516 --> 00:36:55,276 Speaker 1: you have to have a voter registration card as well 488 00:36:55,356 --> 00:36:57,556 Speaker 1: as a membership card, and you got to be an 489 00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:01,316 Speaker 1: active voter. I do not want you to be a 490 00:37:01,396 --> 00:37:06,196 Speaker 1: member of this church and whatever the wind blows your way, 491 00:37:06,516 --> 00:37:10,116 Speaker 1: you're satisfied with join another church. I want people who 492 00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:17,556 Speaker 1: actively participate in the building of their own communities. When 493 00:37:17,596 --> 00:37:21,236 Speaker 1: we got ready to build our church, our people wanted 494 00:37:21,276 --> 00:37:24,516 Speaker 1: to go out into the suburbs. Let's buy a church 495 00:37:24,556 --> 00:37:27,276 Speaker 1: out there. I said, no, let's build our own church 496 00:37:27,476 --> 00:37:31,996 Speaker 1: in the community, and we chose fifty fifth. In Indiana, 497 00:37:33,116 --> 00:37:38,556 Speaker 1: this area was called the Whole, not who l E 498 00:37:39,516 --> 00:37:45,196 Speaker 1: h l E Whole. It was the worst crime area 499 00:37:45,836 --> 00:37:50,596 Speaker 1: in the city of Chicago. We built our church to 500 00:37:50,676 --> 00:37:53,876 Speaker 1: look like a palace, and I call it the Palace 501 00:37:54,316 --> 00:37:58,076 Speaker 1: in the midst of Malice. That's what we did in 502 00:37:58,196 --> 00:38:02,796 Speaker 1: eighty two, and now in two and twenty one, it 503 00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:08,236 Speaker 1: is the most enviable community to live in. People are 504 00:38:08,316 --> 00:38:14,676 Speaker 1: coming back to the community. The Barack Obama Library is 505 00:38:14,756 --> 00:38:18,836 Speaker 1: built in proximity to our community. This is one of 506 00:38:18,916 --> 00:38:22,916 Speaker 1: the most enviable communities in the city of Chicago now 507 00:38:23,316 --> 00:38:29,516 Speaker 1: because we stayed here, we built the Cleo Center here. 508 00:38:30,356 --> 00:38:33,436 Speaker 1: Cleo is named after my daughter who was taken from 509 00:38:33,516 --> 00:38:39,716 Speaker 1: us thirteen years ago by domestic violence in our own community. 510 00:38:40,116 --> 00:38:42,076 Speaker 1: And her name was spelled with the kse. My wife's 511 00:38:42,156 --> 00:38:44,756 Speaker 1: name is spelled with the sea, and so Cleo Stance 512 00:38:44,796 --> 00:38:47,916 Speaker 1: will keep loving each other. That's what she would want 513 00:38:47,996 --> 00:38:51,436 Speaker 1: us to do. And then my son led the community 514 00:38:51,516 --> 00:38:57,516 Speaker 1: and building a residence, the Cleo Resident Building, the first 515 00:38:58,116 --> 00:39:03,556 Speaker 1: totally green building in the city of Chicago. This community 516 00:39:04,596 --> 00:39:08,756 Speaker 1: is a beautiful community now because somebody stayed, not just 517 00:39:10,276 --> 00:39:14,716 Speaker 1: we stayed and we worked and we're still working to 518 00:39:14,876 --> 00:39:18,156 Speaker 1: make this a better community. Man. That's great. Thank you 519 00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:21,436 Speaker 1: so much, Pastor Barrett. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. 520 00:39:21,716 --> 00:39:27,756 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks a Pastor Teale Barrett for taking us 521 00:39:27,756 --> 00:39:30,716 Speaker 1: to church today and sharing God's good word. You can 522 00:39:30,836 --> 00:39:33,156 Speaker 1: check out a playlist of Teale Barrett's new box set 523 00:39:33,276 --> 00:39:36,836 Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe 524 00:39:36,876 --> 00:39:40,356 Speaker 1: to our YouTube at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, 525 00:39:40,516 --> 00:39:43,436 Speaker 1: where you can find all of our newed episodes. You 526 00:39:43,516 --> 00:39:46,596 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record 527 00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:50,196 Speaker 1: is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, 528 00:39:50,436 --> 00:39:54,396 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering health from Nick Chafee. 529 00:39:54,476 --> 00:39:58,196 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Miila bat Broken Record is production 530 00:39:58,236 --> 00:40:00,996 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 531 00:40:01,036 --> 00:40:05,156 Speaker 1: from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus 532 00:40:05,316 --> 00:40:08,596 Speaker 1: is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted 533 00:40:08,676 --> 00:40:11,636 Speaker 1: ad listening for four ninety nine am Mar. Look for 534 00:40:11,716 --> 00:40:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and please remember to share, rate, 535 00:40:15,996 --> 00:40:18,476 Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast. That all Right, The 536 00:40:18,596 --> 00:40:20,916 Speaker 1: Music for a kind of Beats. I'm Justin and Richmond