1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: I'll never forget the summer when my family got our 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: first television set. It was I was about to turn ten. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Having lived in Arkansas in my whole life, TV opened 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: up a whole new world in me. Of course, I 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: love the cartoons and the kids shows like Captain Kangaroo 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: and Howdy Doody, But I also loved watching baseball games 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: with players I was captivated by, especially William Mays and 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: Mickey Mantle. And I was, believe it or not, totally 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: enthralled at that tender age by the Democratic and Republican 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: Conventions held that summer. Sixty five years later, Hillary and I, 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: like lots of people, find that one of our favorite 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: ways to relax and unwind after a long day or 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: in this case, after a long isolation after COVID, it's 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: just to sit down and turn on the TV sometimes 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: binge look at our favorite shows. So why am I 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: telling you this? Because good television has always been about entertainment, Yes, 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: but it's done more. It's introduced us to stories and 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: characters we may have never known, and we see them 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: and come to understand people who identify with those stories 20 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: and characters. In the process, we enable them to be 21 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: seen heard and respected, maybe for the first time in 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: their lives. Good television can really help all of us 23 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: to develop more empathy and understanding, to see things from 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: a different perspective, especially during a year like we've just experienced, 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: when so many people have felt isolated. Good TV can 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: also keep us connected. It can bring us relief and 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: joy sometimes when we need it most. But it takes 28 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: a visionary writer to imagine those stories and to create 29 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: those characters, and then credible skill to make them so 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: compelling that people want to invite them into their lives 31 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: episode after episode. Today, I'm honored to be joined by 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: a pioneering woman who has done just that may be 33 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: better than anyone ever has. Shonda Rhymes. You probably know 34 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: Shawonda as the producer of groundbreaking shows like Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: How to Get Away with Murderer, Station nineteen and Briton, 36 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: and perhaps is the best selling author of her memoir 37 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: Year of Yes. From her very first television project, a 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: documentary about my friend the late Hank Aaron, to her 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: production company, Shonda Land and her work with Netflix, she 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: has become one of the most prolific, respected, and successful 41 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: creators in the history of entertainment. She's been honored with 42 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: the Peabody Award of Golden Globe. She's been inducted into 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: the Television Academy of Arts and Sciences Hall of Fame. 44 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: She's also been honored by the Director's Guilt of America 45 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: Glad in the n Double a c P for the 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: city and representation on her television shows. Just as she's 47 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: created new ways to tell stories and what may seem 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: like familiar settings, she's focused her philanthropic work on changing 49 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: the narrative around what a philanthropist looks like and finding 50 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: ways to make sure others have opportunities to realize their 51 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: own talents and live their own dreams. Shandon, thanks so 52 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: much for being here today. Oh I'm happy to be here. 53 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: This is exciting. I know that many of our listeners, 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: most of our listeners, I know some of your characters 55 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: at least very well and where they came from. But 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: mostly they know you as you are today. So tell 57 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: us more about where you came from. How did you 58 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: get here, Where does your own story start? What drove you? 59 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: How did you break into this business? That's that's a 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: big question, I think for me. You know, I grew 61 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: up in the suburbs of Chicago. I'm the youngest of 62 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: six children, and um, my parents are both educators, and 63 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: because because of that, you know, they both work in academia. 64 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Because of my parents working in academia, I think I 65 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: always felt like education was important and we were always 66 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: sort of as children of color growing up in this 67 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: world like kind of required to be um our best 68 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: and be successful. And and that's not a bad thing, 69 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: but it did make me feel like things like writing 70 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: or being an artist weren't real jobs. You know, you know, 71 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: going to grad school was a job, Being a lawyer 72 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: was a job. Being you know, a doctor was a job. 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: But being a writer was not a job. And so 74 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: it never really occurred to me that I could earn 75 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: a living doing this job. Um I wanted desperately to 76 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: be somebody like Tony Morrison when I had read her novels, 77 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: or a poet or something like that. But it wasn't 78 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: until I was, I want to say, like nineteen or 79 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: twenty that I realized that you could make a living 80 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: writing television shows like that was an actual job that 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: people could have, and that telling stories could be a 82 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: way of learning a living. I still didn't think that 83 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: was something I could do. But it felt like, Okay, 84 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: that's possible. And I remember graduating from college and feeling, um, 85 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: a little bit lost. I'd gone to Dartmouth College. My 86 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: parents had spent a great deal of money for me 87 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: to go there, and I wanted to make them proud, 88 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do. And I read 89 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: that it was harder to get into USC Film School 90 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: than it was to get into Harvard Law School, and 91 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: I thought, well, my parents can't find fault with that. 92 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: And I applied and I got in. And what was 93 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: great about it was I could tell my parents, while 94 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to use that graduates degree to teach, you know, 95 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: I can teach. That's the real thing. And my parents 96 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: felt like, okay, she's an academia. That feels even, it 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: makes it makes sense to us, and um, so that 98 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: was sort of my start, and film school felt like, 99 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, it felt normal to me. It felt 100 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: like I found a place where I belonged. I think 101 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: most people probably don't think about how you go from 102 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: an idea to writing to putting on a show and 103 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: running it. And when you became a show runner, suddenly 104 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: you're thrust into running a business. You've got hundreds of 105 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: employees and now with several shows and production at the 106 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: same time, it's almost like running a mini economy. I've 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: heard you say the process is like creating a nation 108 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: out of thin air. So how do you balance the 109 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: relatively isolated craft of writing with managing hundreds of people? 110 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: And has managing all these people to turn an idea 111 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: into reality affected how you right and how you think 112 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: about characters. I mean, I think when I first broke 113 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: into the business, you know, I was doing screenplays. Um, 114 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: My first job was sort of as a research director 115 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: on the Hank Aaron documentary that you mentioned. So those 116 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: are very isolated jobs. You know, if you're writing a 117 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: screenplay or you're doing the research direction on a documentary 118 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: or things like that, you're by yourself, at home in 119 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: your pajamas doing the work. Um. And then I wrote, 120 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: I thought, I'll write a television show that sounds like fun. 121 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: I really think that's where all the character growth is happening. 122 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: And I tried one year, and I wrote a pilot 123 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: about journalists and well, it's about war correspondence. And we 124 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: went to war, and I thought, well, nobody wants to 125 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: go watch workrrespondents when we're actually going to war in 126 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: real life. And then the next year I wrote a 127 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: show about medical doctors, about surgeons, and that was Gray's Anatomy. 128 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: So truly, I had never worked in the television business 129 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: before at all, and I wrote Raise Anatomy. And so 130 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: to go from not just um being thrust into running 131 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: a business with hundreds of people, but never having had 132 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: any experience in the television industry at all. Um, So, 133 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: going from being at home in your pajamas really writing 134 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: movies to being thrust into running business with hundreds of 135 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: people was very startling because it's a completely different animal 136 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: than a film, and a film the director is in charge. 137 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: They say the director fires the writer, and in television 138 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: the writer is in charge. They say the writer fires 139 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: the director. And suddenly I had all of this responsibility 140 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: at my fingertips. You know, people wanted to know, you know, 141 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: how are we going to do this? Is it going 142 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: to be on budget? You're responsible for people's jobs, responsible 143 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: for people's livelihoods. You're not just a storyteller. You're you're 144 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: responsible for like a mini economy. It's really true. And 145 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: your job is to keep that that train on the track, 146 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: keep the shows being made and keep people employed, but 147 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: also keep the network making their you know, money that 148 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be making, and you want their advertising 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: dollars to be high. It's a real business, and it 150 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: truly I mean I don't know. I mean you've you know, 151 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: you obviously in a way that I could never know. 152 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: You've run a country. So it's nothing like that, obviously 153 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: it's but it is this very small feeling of having 154 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: all eyes on you, um in a in a minute, 155 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: very miniaturized, tiny, tiny way, UM, and you wanting to 156 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: do good and learning that you have to speak up. 157 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: And I had to learn how to become a leader, 158 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: and I had to learn how to um take care 159 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: of the people around me and to really realize that 160 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: that was part of my job. Another problem you have 161 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: dealt with, mostly in your memoir You'r of Yes, is 162 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: the challenges of pursuing that career, handling all those ext 163 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: responsibilities and still being a good mother, and how at 164 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: each step that where you're doing something newer and bigger, 165 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: you have to overcome Sean's fear of failure. Whatever it 166 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: is that keeps most of us from being everything we 167 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: could be. So tell us about your saying yes philosophy 168 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: and how to help you both as a mother and 169 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: as a leader. I do think we are taught as 170 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: a society to say no, to be careful, to be 171 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: that that's strong often means being careful and doing everything 172 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: exactly right, which keeps you a lot of times from 173 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: saying yes to things that could be frightening to you. 174 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: And I by frightening, I mean I've never done that before, 175 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: so I'm scared to do it. And so because of that, 176 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: you don't you you, I don't know, you hide from 177 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: doing things that that you should be doing. So for me, 178 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: I the whole memoir Year of Yes came about because 179 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: one Thanksgiving I was sort of bragging to my sister 180 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: about all of these fancy invitations I had received to 181 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: go places, and she said, but you're never going to 182 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: go and I said, well, of course not. You know, 183 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: I can't And she said, you never say yes to anything, 184 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: And I realized that she was right, Like I was 185 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: so shy but also so careful about like not wanting 186 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: to step out of my comfort zone. I was doing 187 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, one or two things, and I was doing 188 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: them well that was it. So I just kept myself 189 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: saying no, just it felt safer, and I do think 190 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: for most young women it feels like that's how you 191 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: how you get through you You keep yourself in your 192 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: comfort zone and you do the things that you're good at. 193 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: And what was very interesting for me was that I 194 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: feel like my life when I say completely changed, I 195 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: mean completely changed. When I decided that I was going 196 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: to spend a year saying yes to everything that scared 197 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: me UM and I. I was scared of a lot 198 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: of things, I have to say, like, I was afraid 199 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: of public speaking. I was afraid of I was afraid 200 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: to think of myself as somebody who should be out 201 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: in front. I was afraid of UM so many things. 202 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: And the first thing that I got asked to do 203 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: was to give a commencement speech UM at Dartmouth in 204 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: front of thousands of people, which was terrifying. But what 205 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: I discovered through this whole process was that the very 206 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: act of doing the thing that you are afraid of 207 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: sort of undoes the fear. It's amazing, you sort of 208 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: stepped through this thing and you think, well, it's never 209 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: gonna work, it's gonna be awful, And the minute you're 210 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: in the middle of that, you realize you can no 211 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: longer be afraid of a thing that you're already doing, 212 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: and it frees you in an amazing way. So I 213 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: started saying yes to more things. And one of the 214 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: other things I did that I think sort of made 215 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: my work life better was that I started saying yes 216 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: to my children. Um. And at the time, they were 217 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: very little, they were like three and five or maybe 218 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: two and four, and whenever they asked me if I 219 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: wanted to play um and you know, little kids asked 220 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: that all the time, and you're busy, and you think, like, 221 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: I have too much to do, I'm working on this, 222 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm that. So instead I would stop whatever I was 223 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: doing and play with my kids. And you know, children 224 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: only really want to play with you for about fifteen 225 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: minutes before they want to do something else. But it 226 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: was knowing that I was saying yes to them that 227 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: gave them this level of comfort. It was knowing that 228 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: they didn't have to worry like is mom going to 229 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: have the time for us? That somehow made them not 230 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: necessarily need to ask me to play all the time. 231 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: They just knew I was there for them and for me. 232 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: It brought me this sense of joy, like I learned 233 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: how to play again in a real way, and I 234 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: admitted this. I gave a ted talk and I admitted 235 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: this on the stage where I said, I don't actually 236 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: like playing, like the idea of like the Barbie dolls 237 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: and the things that kids do. I think they're cool, 238 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: but I'm not a person who wants to play. I 239 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: like to spend time in my head imagining reading books. 240 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: I was always that way, And I learned how to play, 241 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: like building legos and putting together you know, a little 242 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: houses and drawing things with crayons, and you know, making 243 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: sand castles and all the things you know, playing hide 244 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: and seek, playing pretend, playing dress up. All the things 245 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: that I would never have done, I have done now 246 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: as a grown woman with my kids because they wanted 247 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: to do it. And I've had a great time and 248 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: I feel like it opened me up create eatively in 249 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: so many ways. Um, I don't know. I mean, I 250 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: think children change you fundamentally, and sometimes we're so busy 251 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: trying to be successful that we're resistant to some of 252 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: those changes or were careful about them. And I don't know. 253 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: It was just a life changing experience. The entire act 254 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: of saying yes was a life changing experience. That's wonderful. 255 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: You know, I read many years ago study I can't 256 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: even remember who did it, but someone followed all these 257 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: kids who had really succeeded in their lives against enormous obstacles, 258 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: and they only conclusion that the researcher could draw was 259 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: that somehow people make it. They can grow into themselves 260 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: if when they're young they believe they're the most important 261 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: person in the world of somebody, and the most important 262 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: somebody is of Lee a parent. I think that it's 263 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: also life affirming for the parents, and it's it's wonderful. 264 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: I loved what you said about that in your book. 265 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. You know, Hillary and I've bene 266 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: watched Gray's Anatomy for years and we t vote everything, 267 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: so we were faithful watchers. I still check in on 268 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: them every now and then. I feel like I know 269 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: these people. The thing that means the most to meet 270 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: today about your characters, and I'd like to talk to 271 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: you about it, is that you don't paint people in 272 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,119 Speaker 1: black and white. You do nuance, you do shades of reality. 273 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: You you don't turn your heroes or your villains into 274 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: two dimensional cartoons. And I think one of the things 275 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: that's really hurting America today and all over the world, 276 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: and one of the reasons for the rise of all 277 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: this rampant divisive nationalism, is that we're all being turned 278 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: into cartoons. And it's happening in every aspect of our life, 279 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: including the way we get normal news information. I mean, 280 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: when when John Kennedy was president, the news was an 281 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: hour long. There were three networks enough to keep each 282 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: other honest in competition, but also to keep each other 283 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: financially and psychologically secure enough that they could tell a story. 284 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: The average time when the president was on television and 285 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: a news story, the average exposure was forty three seconds. 286 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: By the time I became president, it was down to 287 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: about eighteen, but the time Barack Obama became president was 288 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: down to about nine. As it kept dropping, it was 289 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Taylor made for someone like Donald Trump. I thought. The 290 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: most valuable thing about Scandal, and in a different way, 291 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: about your other shows, How to Get Away with Murder, 292 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: and especially about Gray's Anatomy. The only reason He's lasted 293 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: for seventeen years, I think is that the people are 294 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: inherently interesting because they are constantly revealing themselves in ways 295 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: that are surprising. It turns out we're not cartoons, and 296 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: when we navigate the world as if we are, seems 297 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: to me that we're creating a hell of a problem 298 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: for ourselves in the world is tough enough as it is. 299 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: Do you think about that? I think about that all 300 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: the time, and I find myself having that conversation more 301 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: and more all the time. There's something to me about 302 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: sort of what I call the struggle it takes to 303 00:18:52,600 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: remain human that feels vital in storytelling. Um. First, I'm 304 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: going to say that you once sent me a letter 305 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: saying that you really enjoyed watching you and you and 306 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: Hillary really enjoyed watching Gray's Anatomy. And I framed it 307 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: and it was for a long time in my office 308 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: the only thing framed and hung on my wall. UM. 309 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: I was very excited about it, was like it meant 310 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: a lot. UM. And then as a gift, I think 311 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: so you said something in and I think it was 312 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: in an interview once where you said I just love 313 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: everything Shonda Rhymes does. And my staff got me a 314 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: T shirt that said Bill Clinton loves everything I do, 315 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: and I wore it. It was really cute, but it 316 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: also was like this affirmation, So thank you for that 317 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: now and go back to your question. Um, this idea 318 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: that people are not um just these two dimensional paper, 319 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, doll cutouts. That that everybody has a humanity 320 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: to them, that everybody has you know, pain and sorrow 321 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: and and love and joy. That everyone believes they're the 322 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: hero of their own story. That they're not just acting 323 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: because their villains or because they're you know, like the 324 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: love interest. Every character that you're writing about has to 325 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: be the hero of their own story and you have 326 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: to treat them that way. Is a really important thing, 327 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: both in storytelling, I think, and in life. It was 328 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: very interesting for me in Scandal, which I had created 329 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: as sort of a fable, you know, when we when 330 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: I created Scandal, my idea was that Washington was so 331 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: not like that. There was no way Washington was like that. 332 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: That that that it was kind of kind of going 333 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: to be fun to explore what the dark, dark side 334 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: of politics could be. Um this idea that really they 335 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: were there were sort of the monsters among us running 336 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: our country and we had missed it. But it's always 337 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: fun to tell, you know, a ghost story, you know, 338 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: when the lights are on but then we moved to 339 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: a place in their country where the lights were off 340 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: and it stopped being as much fun. But those characters, 341 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: all of them, you know, cyrus Bean is there was 342 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: a very dark character and a very sort of People 343 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: used to say like, oh, he's so evil, and I 344 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: would get very offended, and I would say, cyrus Bean 345 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: is not evil. Cyrus Bean is a patriot because in 346 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: his own mind, that is why he was doing what 347 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: he was doing. He was doing it because he loved 348 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: his country more than anybody else in his mind, and 349 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: that he was doing everything he could to save his 350 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: country more than anybody else. Every last character has to 351 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: be somebody who you can step in their shoes and 352 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: walk around. Every story has to provide a window and 353 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: a mirror so you can look through and see somebody 354 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: else's life and also see yourself in there. And we 355 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: should be treating other people currently like that too. And 356 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: I find myself having this conversation more and more because 357 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: the generation that's coming up right now, they they are 358 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: I think they've been conditioned to not look at the 359 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: world that way, unfortunately, And I get a lot of 360 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: pushback when I say, um, you know, Donald Trump, whatever, 361 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: he's done. You have to look at him like a 362 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: person and think if I was walking in his shoes, 363 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: what would that bean? As hard as that maybe for somebody, 364 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: and to them, that's like I'm I'm saying, you know, 365 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: set yourself on fire or something equally as ridiculous, because 366 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: it's very hard for them to believe that things are 367 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: not black and white, that there are these shades of 368 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: gray out there. You know, you know, I would always 369 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: tell people this is the framework through which I evaluate this. 370 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: You might not agree with it, that's fine, But if 371 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: you don't, you need your own framework because you need 372 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: to understand. It's more are important to understand before you 373 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: take aside, and when you take a side, if you 374 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: want to avoid calamity, you have to understand the other side. 375 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: When I was president, my Staph used to laugh at 376 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: me because I never made an argument when I wanted 377 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: uh boris Elson to do something, or to convince the 378 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: uh It Socra Bean or Shamon Paris or be being 379 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: that in LaHood to do something, I would never argue 380 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: about why I wanted it. I always stated why I 381 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: thought it was best for them to do it. I said, 382 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: you may not agree, you know your own interests more 383 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: than me. But here's why I think it's good for you. 384 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: I think we we just don't do that enough anymore. 385 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: I remember when I when I was thirteen years old, 386 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: so there's been more than sixty years ago. I remember 387 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: this like it was yesterday. In my last day of 388 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: eighth grade science, my teacher of Vernon Dooki, who was 389 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: an ex coach. He was married to a beautiful woman 390 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: who taught me history and was great, he had to 391 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: put it charitably, was not a handsome man. And teacher 392 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: didn't make any money, and he was always trying to 393 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: let out his belt and coming out of his shirt, 394 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: and he had a coke bottled glasses and he smoked 395 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: Chief cigars out of a uh a little plastic to 396 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: go over which which aggravated his beak nose and pinched 397 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: his face. So we're getting ready to end our career 398 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: in eighth grade science, he said, kid, you're not gonna 399 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: remember anything you learned in eighth grade signs, but you 400 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: should remember this. Every morning, I get up and I 401 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: go into the bathroom and I throw water on my face, 402 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: and I shave, and then I washed the cream off 403 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: and I dry my face and I look in that 404 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: mirror and I say, Vernon, you're beautiful. He said, if 405 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: you remember that one thing everybody wants to believe they're beautiful, 406 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: it'll take you a long way in life. And here 407 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: we are six or two years later, and I remember, 408 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: like it yesterday. I love that because I think he's right. 409 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: I really do. I think it's that self belief that's 410 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: what makes people. People believe. People are the stories they 411 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: tell themselves. I mean that that's part of it. And 412 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I find it really interesting 413 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: when you tell me that the news has changed so 414 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: much that you know, the number of seconds of President 415 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: is on has been on television has deteriorated so much. 416 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: But I also find it interesting like there used to 417 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: be rules right where the news had to present both sides, 418 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: and that was done away with at some point. And 419 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: once that was done away with, the news stopped being 420 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: in the news and started being a certain form of entertainment, 421 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: almost like just more reality television, which which I think 422 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: is very difficult. And I think there's no time in 423 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: the news anymore, and most people are watching don't have time. 424 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: They're just trying to get by in life. And I 425 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: feel like if they had a way of I don't know, 426 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: connecting with the people on the other side of the 427 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: world by at least understanding what was going on and 428 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: in a more um a more explained way. I don't 429 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,239 Speaker 1: think it would be better a little bit. What do 430 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: you think it's going to take to Like do you 431 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: think that what's going on right now in the government 432 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: is really going to help to change sort of this 433 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: idea that people want to be more entertained than they 434 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: do um taken care of or saved or engaged in 435 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: the world. I think Biden has been almost pitched perfectly 436 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: what he said done. Uh. I think the problem he 437 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: has is, first of all, the last election was very close, 438 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: and I think that it's now a performance art for 439 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: the Democrats. If we can produce whose positive results that 440 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: cross those divides by lifting everybody, giving everybody a chance, 441 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: then we have a chance to psychologically change. It's very 442 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: hard to change the political standoffs that exist today because 443 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: the Republicans believe it's working for them, and that's the 444 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,239 Speaker 1: big challenge. But I think that Biden has done it 445 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: very well. I think he made good decisions economically, and 446 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: good decisions on staff, and good decisions to have an 447 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: inclusive policy economically and socially and politically, and you just 448 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: have to keep reaching out to the Republicans. And at 449 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: the moment they believe they have more to gain by 450 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: making a deal than just saying no all the time, 451 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: then he should show a little leg to and they 452 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: can maybe do something. But he's been doing this a 453 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: long time, and he's knows that they think they're winning 454 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: even though he won, and even though he's popular. So 455 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: he can only get back to buy partisanship when they're 456 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: willing to do it. And I noticed in the South 457 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: America had a couple of elections recently and and one 458 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: a left wing or one and the other a right 459 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: wing or one. And in both cases they won because 460 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: they weren't of the party that was in before. Because 461 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: people know what we're doing is not working, and so 462 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: they said, what have I got to lose by changing? 463 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: But that's the sort of mindset. And people that love 464 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: your programs, and I want to get back to that. 465 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: They liked them because even if they're watching a highly 466 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: improbable plot, they're not watching highly improbable people. Oh that's interesting. 467 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: I never thought of it that way. Would there be 468 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: a market for a political show that tried to deal 469 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: with this stuff. I mean, I absolutely think there would. 470 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you ever saw that. 471 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: There was an amazing show called Borgan that was out 472 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: years and years ago. Here, we're not Bane, wats that 473 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: we love Borgan. Borgan is amazing. But I and I 474 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: kept thinking there is a world in which something like 475 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: that could be so interesting now and here because we 476 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: are at this very odd place in in our in 477 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: the story of America. Really, if you look at it 478 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: that way, you know, we've come to well, a very 479 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: strange crossroads. And that crossroad there's it's it's ripe for drama, 480 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: first of all, but even just the plain facts of it. 481 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: There was things that I always said at the end 482 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: of Scandal, when we were writing, I would say, well, 483 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: we've written something that's so crazy it could it's never gonna, 484 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: you know, happen, And then it would happen. And that 485 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 1: was that was worrisome to me. But we are at 486 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: a place where I would constantly say, I constantly say, 487 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: we can't make this up, Like this can't be made up. 488 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: But I think this past year, this pandemic, the political uprising, 489 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: the racial justice um reckoning. All of those things, the 490 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: being forced inside, people losing their jobs, all the things 491 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: that happened that sort of kept everybody in a more 492 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: contemplative place have made people more interested or more reflective 493 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: about the world that we're in. That I do feel 494 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: is true. Um, whichever way they're leaning, they're more passionate 495 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: about what they're what they're leaning towards, and so at 496 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: least I feel like they're more interested in the narrative. 497 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: And maybe there's something in that. If you can understand somebody, 498 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: I think they they you can embrace them and you 499 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: can see another side of the world. We'll be right back. 500 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: When you write a TV show, or you produce one, 501 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: or you laid one, like did you have any idea 502 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: that Bridgetin was going to be as successful as it was? 503 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: My feeling about shows that we make. I know that 504 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: if I want to watch them, I mean we made 505 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: it so I was there in the editing room, and 506 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: I was there when we're working on the scripts. But 507 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: if I still want to watch it, I feel like 508 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: it's going to be popular. That doesn't mean i'm I 509 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: know it is, but I always try to make shows 510 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: that I want to watch. So did I know it 511 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: was going to be that popular, No, but I did 512 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: feel good about it at the very least. Um, I 513 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: always feel like as long as I want to like 514 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: sell the episodes out of the back of my car 515 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: just to get people to watch something, then then we 516 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: have a fighting chance. But that was out of this 517 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: world extraordinary, how big that show was. I don't know 518 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: that that any of kind of imagine that. Well, you know, 519 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: we're just fairly late in the game. Hillary and I 520 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: were home on a Saturday afternoon, and uh, in the 521 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: early we had dinner and we started watching it. She'd 522 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: been wanting to watch it, and she said, I just 523 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: want to watch an episode and then we'll go to bed, 524 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: and then let's watch another one. Let's watch another one. 525 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: The sun was coming up Sunday morning when we finished. 526 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: We watched it all the way through, and uh, I 527 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 1: realized that, among other things, I liked the Queen Charlotte character. 528 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: I thought she played it well and she was great. 529 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: And I realized, I didn't know that's a big chunk 530 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: of history. I didn't know. I thought I knew virtually 531 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: everything relevant about George the Third and I didn't have 532 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: a clue. So is it gonna be hard to keep 533 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: it going, and we were ever going to see Regor 534 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: John again. Well, it's not going to be hard to 535 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: keep going because they're based on the books of Julia 536 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: Quinn and Julia has written you know, the Bridge and 537 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: family has eight children and she's written eight books, one 538 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: for each kid. So we've we've got a lot of 539 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: material to work with, which is really great, and we've 540 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: added some interesting characters. You know, we added Queen Charlotte 541 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: into the into the storylines and things. Um. I don't 542 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: know that any of us expected the magic that Reggae 543 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: was going to bring to the screen. I think that 544 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: was electrifying. He brought such a depth and a soulfulness 545 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: to that role and a and an excitement um that 546 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: I thought was amazing. And I just don't think I 547 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: expected it. I don't think he expected it, you know, 548 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: to to one day be living his life, the next 549 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: day to not be able to walk down the street. 550 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: But that was magical. And I mean I always say 551 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: to people like, you know, the Duke has never gone. 552 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: He's just sort of waiting to be bitted and watched 553 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: all over again. But we really only you know, the 554 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: whole idea is that and this is very different for television. 555 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: That we're going to tell a close ended love story 556 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: every season is um exciting to me because then you 557 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: don't have to come up with fake reasons why the 558 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: couple can't be together anymore. You get to actually fulfill 559 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: the story that was meant to be told and then 560 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: let them go on. So that's that's kind of the plan. Well, 561 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: I remember the only it was amazing. Hillary just kept 562 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: saying over and over again all that long, that's the 563 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: most beautiful man I ever saw on television. I kept 564 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: wanting it to get bumped off after a while. It 565 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: was a It was a brilliant show, and the other 566 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: characters were good. They are, but I think and I 567 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: think we all learned something watching it. I think I 568 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: really enjoyed the way we used it to explore character, 569 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: and I liked the way we played with um people's 570 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: expectations of who the characters could be. I was very 571 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: proud of that. And there's some beautiful British actors that 572 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: you just never get to see UM do these roles 573 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: and and you know, Lady Danbury like getting to see 574 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: um that actor play that role was just spectacular. Are 575 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: there any characters that you tried to bring to the 576 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: screen that you wish you had. Did you still mind anything. 577 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that we're working on is warmth 578 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: of other sons UM with and Dr Smith, and I 579 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: desperately want to see that brought to life because I 580 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: know how magical that that will be. But also it 581 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: feels like there's this great responsibility behind that one. UM. 582 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, I like an interesting 583 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: tale told, and I like an interesting character. I don't necessarily, 584 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: UM have anyones that I'm specifically holding on too, are 585 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: waiting for. Let's talk a little bit about your philanthropic work. 586 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: I noticed in your philanthropy you support Time's Up, and 587 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: I like that because it's both an attempt to end 588 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: abuse against women in the workplace and an attempt to 589 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: build a more inclusive, healthy workplace and teach people, let 590 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: them learn, let them grow, let them build a different 591 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: future together. How did you decide to support the organizations 592 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: you do? And do you believe that at a time 593 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: when government has to do more than ever before since 594 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: probably since the Depression, that it still matters that people 595 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 1: are doing this non governmental work. I mean, I don't 596 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: ever think I'm always going to think philanthropy matters. I 597 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: just am. I think that people who have the means 598 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: and the ability to be engaged in helping other people 599 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: UM is always going to be important. I think that 600 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: what matters about philanthropy is making sure that the the 601 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: funds that are being donated are the ways that you're 602 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: helping people are really about how the other people want 603 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: to be helped versus how you think they should be helped, 604 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: which I see a lot. And I think that the 605 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: idea of celebrating UM a different kind of philanthropy is 606 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: also important. You know, ah, I there's a whole world 607 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: of philanthropy that really sort of is UM, sort of 608 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: surrounded by this. You know, these particular people are our 609 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: big philanthropist people, and that's kind of it. And I 610 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: was talking to Darren Walker of the Ford Foundation, and 611 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: I said to him, I think, if we're only going 612 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: to believe that philanthropy belongs to old white men, philanthropy 613 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: is gonna die with all of the old rich white men. 614 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: We put it that and to put it that way, 615 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: it has to be something that we're passing down to 616 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: younger generations, as as their responsibility too, and as there 617 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: as a rewarding responsibility. So for me, you know, a 618 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: lot of the things I like to support are about, 619 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, young people in the arts, UM, helping young 620 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: people of color sort of find a place for themselves 621 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: in the arts. UM, things that have to do with 622 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: women's issues, times up and you know, planned parenthood and 623 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: those things. Obviously, you know I have a political things 624 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: that I support, but I do think that for for me, 625 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: it's about finding things that I am really passionate about 626 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: and really care about and believe in, and then focusing 627 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: on that versus UM. I know some people spread themselves 628 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: too thin UM and or you know which I feel 629 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: feel like it's a danger. In the beginning, I wasn't 630 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: sure what to do or who to give to. But 631 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: I really learned to to focus on the things that 632 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: really felt important to me because a lot of things 633 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: feel important to you, but it's it's hard to find 634 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: to define it and hone it down. And I also 635 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: think what's important is UM being a partner with with 636 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: the organizations that you're working with and trying to serve 637 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: them as best you can in whatever way you can. 638 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: That's what I liked about our PLUT Global Initiative model. 639 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: You know, we we would just help people to find 640 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: partners who could implement things in areas they were interested in, 641 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: and then listen to the people before they gave them 642 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: the money, so they'd be empowered but not directive. And 643 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's it works pretty well. And 644 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: I try to find things that aren't being done that 645 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: fall into the gap between what government can provide and 646 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: the private sector will produce, either because there's a financial 647 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: gap or because people's attitudes won't permit them to do 648 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: what needs to be done. I think over the past year, 649 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: one of the things that I've been most UM that 650 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: I've learned the most about. I spent a lot of 651 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: time learning about was what's going on with education in 652 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: America UM or the lack thereof UM, and how how 653 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: how much it affects prosperity and how much it affects 654 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: future needs, you know, K through three education plus preschool 655 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: through K three education or college education, both of which 656 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: are UM so vital and important. UM. I've been working 657 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: with an organization called Beyond twelve, which UM I love 658 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: because they sort of help get kids who are first 659 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: generation college kids all the way through UM through their 660 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, through their college experience and really make sure 661 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: that they have all the resources they need and all 662 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: the support that they need, um to to become college graduates, 663 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 1: which I think is important. But for me this year really, 664 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: I mean after into homeschool my children for maybe five 665 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: minutes by myself really understanding the need of any parent 666 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: with a special needs child or anything being without the 667 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: help that they deserve, and the qualities of different public schooling. 668 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: That to me feels like the biggest area that that 669 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: worries me about America right now. Um, other than people. 670 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: You know, children obviously got going hungry in our own country, 671 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: But there's so many there's so many issues, that's the thing. 672 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: There are so many issues that have to be addressed, 673 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: almost too many. I think in the long run that 674 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: might be your most important project, which are beyond twelve, 675 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: because um, we know that starting at about thirteen, if 676 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: kids get that far without developing the necessary right basic skills, 677 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: they get very board with school because they don't really 678 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: know what's going on, and they began to drift away 679 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: and they begin to develop lower expectations of themselves. And 680 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: I think that maybe when when we can get back 681 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: to something that approximates normal life and we get the 682 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: economy uh working for more people. Anyway, there'll be an 683 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: even greater market for what you're trying to do there 684 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: because it's it's really important. I mean, these kids, thirteen 685 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: is a very hard year for a lot of kids. 686 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: It definitely wants for me. I want our listeners to 687 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: know that you need to find something that you care 688 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,839 Speaker 1: about and help and you don't have to have all 689 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: the money in the world to make a difference in 690 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: a lot of them. But it's a very good thing. Well, 691 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: I didn't get you to say anything you shouldn't have 692 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: said about Bridges, and your programs have been Your shows 693 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: have been a if two millions of us, including me 694 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: and our family. So I thank you for that, and 695 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: I wish you well. I I hope you'll keep thinking 696 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: on that. At what I said, though, you you you 697 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: did something that I haven't seen people do, at least 698 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: not as well. You made your dark characters have their 699 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: better spots and your bright characters have their weak spots, 700 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: and you kept us all in the game of life 701 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: instead of this crazy cartoony spats were having. So I 702 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: thank you for that. I I used to recommend to 703 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: my listeners when I give these talks, a certain number 704 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: of books that were short enough that you know I 705 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,720 Speaker 1: wasn't asking to war in peace their way to truth. 706 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: But E. O. Wilson, the great chrobiologists, who is about 707 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: ninety now, and in so far as it was possible, 708 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: he traced back through all of human and pre human history, 709 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: and he said, the most successful species that have ever 710 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: occupied our earth or ants, termites, bees, and people because 711 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 1: in the face of repeated opportunities to destroy themselves, they 712 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: have always found new habits of cooperation which enabled them 713 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: to overcome and survive and thrive. He said. Now people 714 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: are both the most successful and the most complicated, because 715 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: alone above these species, they have consciousness and a conscience. 716 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: Their consciousness takes them a long way, but makes them arrogant, 717 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: and so far at every turn their conscience is kicked 718 00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: in in time to save the species. But all so 719 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: you can teach the same lesson without saying those words 720 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: in your characters that are, even if imperfect, flawed and wonderful. 721 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,240 Speaker 1: At the same time, You've given us a great gift, 722 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: thank you, that means so much to me coming from you, 723 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: and it's amazing, thank you. I've enjoyed this conversation and 724 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: is there anything you want to say as we close out? Um, now, 725 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: this conversation has been incredible for me. I always feel 726 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: like when I listened to you talk, I learned something, 727 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: and I learned a lot in our conversations day. So 728 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate it so much. You've been wonderful. Thank you 729 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: so much, Thank you. Why am I telling you? This 730 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: is a production of our Heart Radio, the Clinton Foundation 731 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: and at Will Media, our executive producers of Craig Monascian 732 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,760 Speaker 1: and Will mal Mati. Our production team includes Mitch Bluestein, 733 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,879 Speaker 1: Jamison cat Sufis, Tom Galton, Sarah Harowits, and Jake Young, 734 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: with production support from Tyler Scott and Oltavia Young. Original 735 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: music by What White. Special thanks to John Sichs, Tina Finois, 736 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: John Davidson on hell Arena, Corey Gantley, Oscar Flores, Kevin Thurm, 737 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: and all our dedicated staff and partners at the Clinton Foundation. 738 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: If you have an idea of suggestion for the show, 739 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you, so please visit Clinton 740 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 1: Foundation dot org Slash podcast to share your thoughts with us. 741 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: If you like the show, tell someone else about it. 742 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: You can subscribe to Why am I telling you this 743 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever 744 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. By listening to this podcast, you're 745 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: helping support the work of the Clinton Foundation. So thank you. 746 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 1: M M hi. I'm Jane Park, director of National Partnerships 747 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: at Too Smart to Fail, the Clinton Foundations Early Learning Initiative. 748 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: In the United States, nearly sixty of children start kindergarten unprepared, 749 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: lagging behind in critical language and literacy skills. Luckily, research 750 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: tells us that simple everyday interactions like talking, reading, and 751 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 1: singing with young children from the moment they're born can 752 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: help set a strong foundation for lifelong learning. That's why 753 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: we're working just around families with early language, literacy and 754 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: learning opportunities during their daily routines, from the load of 755 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: the laundromat to the bus stop, the pediatrician's office to 756 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: the playground, and we work to meet parents where they 757 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: are and help them provide their children with the best 758 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: possible start in school and in life. Learn more about 759 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: this work and see how you can get involved visit 760 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: www dot Clinton Foundation dot org. Slash podcast