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Speaker 1: We're going to lose the First Amendment, We're going to

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Speaker 1: lose the freedom of the press. My opinion is that

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Speaker 1: they targeted me because they have been after me for

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Speaker 1: a long time.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, this is Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 3: And this is Don Lemon. Don Lemon, my friend, Governor Newsom.

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Speaker 2: The young Republican, the young Republican. Tell me that's true?

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Speaker 2: Is that true? You were a young Republican that was

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Speaker 2: years ago. I was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a freshman in college. It was

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Speaker 1: around the it was the eighties. Everybody was doing it.

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Speaker 1: Govern I was a young Republican. I thought it was cool.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I like the clothes that like, you know, I went

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Speaker 1: to LSU and there was lots of khakis and blue jackets,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I wanted to fit in. But it

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Speaker 1: was the Reagan days and opulence and dynasty and you know,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just you know, I have

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Speaker 1: some conservative leanings and I still I mean, I had

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Speaker 1: some and I still do now, but I've matured and

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Speaker 1: I've grown a bit. So yeah, I was a young Republican,

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Speaker 1: It's true.

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Speaker 2: And you were like member of the Young Republican Club.

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Speaker 2: Were you out there like advocating.

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Speaker 3: No, I was young and a Republican. I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: There was no club. I was young and a Republican.

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Speaker 1: But my mom look respectfully, Gavin. When I was I

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Speaker 1: liked Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 3: It was weird.

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Speaker 1: And I wrote a letter to the White House to

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Speaker 1: the President and then they wrote back. I think it

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Speaker 1: was maybe an auto pen, but way he signed it,

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Speaker 1: and they wrote a letter to me. And I have

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Speaker 1: it somewhere in my memorabilia. And I got a lot

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Speaker 1: to remember. Coming home one day and my mom said,

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Speaker 1: you got a piece of ail.

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Speaker 3: And I said where. She said the White House. And

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Speaker 3: she goes, why is the White House writing you?

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Speaker 1: And then I opened it up and I said, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's from the President. She said, you are out of

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Speaker 1: your damn mind because she did not like Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 1: And then quickly I became I came to realize, like,

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Speaker 1: you know what he was, you know, around the AIDS

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Speaker 1: crisis and you know all the hysterian hypocrisy around that.

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Speaker 1: I just that's when I, you know, fell out of

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Speaker 1: favor with Ronald Reagan and with the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: Was you were your parents politically active in any way,

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Speaker 2: shape or form. Did they get you agitated early on

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Speaker 2: in terms of just what's going on in the world

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Speaker 2: or did that come naturally for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, my dad.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, my dad retired I think around nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: or so. Around that same time he retired, he worked

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Speaker 1: at Exxon for thirty some years. It's my stepdad, and

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Speaker 1: he became one of those people who started listening to

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Speaker 1: radio all day and it was Rush Limbaugh back in

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Speaker 1: the eighties, right. He would hear Rush Limbaugh, and my

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Speaker 1: mom would come home from work and say, have you

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Speaker 1: been sitting in your workshop all day working on stuff

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Speaker 1: and listening to Rush Limbaugh. So my dad would, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk about all this conservative stuff. And then my mom

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Speaker 1: was always liberal and but so we didn't really talk

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Speaker 1: about it that much. But my real dad, who was

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Speaker 1: an attorney, was involved in a civil rights action in

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Speaker 1: Baton Rouge. He changed the way public transportation laws worked

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Speaker 1: and where black people could sit on buses and public transportation.

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Speaker 1: So my dad, who was an attorney, my real father

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Speaker 1: who died you know, when my mom remarried, but remarried

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Speaker 1: my stepdad. But he was more of an activist than

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Speaker 1: anybody else. But I didn't get to know when that

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Speaker 1: was seven when he died.

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Speaker 2: You were just seven, God bless was your I mean

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Speaker 2: you and your your fore end of journalism was it?

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Speaker 2: You know? Was it as a student? I mean, how

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Speaker 2: young did you really start looking through the prism of

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Speaker 2: trying to tell stories and and and and to communicate

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Speaker 2: them or you know what was that evolution? Like?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was a journalist before I even knew what

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Speaker 3: the word was.

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Speaker 1: And according to my mother, I would when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, you know, just old enough to walk and talk,

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Speaker 1: she said, I would go over to people, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we were on vacation or if we were in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant, I would just wander over to someone's table

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Speaker 1: or just go talk to people and say where are you.

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Speaker 3: From, what are you doing? And my mom would say

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Speaker 3: come back.

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Speaker 1: And my dad would say to my mom, according to

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Speaker 1: my mother, don't teach that boy to be afraid of people.

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Speaker 3: Just let him do his thing.

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Speaker 1: And if, you know, if he goes too far or

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Speaker 1: if they don't want him over there or whatever, then

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Speaker 1: we'll take care of it. But just let him go

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Speaker 1: and do his thing. And so I was always been curious.

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Speaker 1: I've always asked questions since I can remember. I've always

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Speaker 1: wanted to know, but it wasn't until around high school,

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Speaker 1: maybe early in college.

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Speaker 2: There was.

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Speaker 1: A woman in on my local news station. Her name

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Speaker 1: was Jean West, and she was this black woman and

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Speaker 1: she was you know, articulate. I hate that word, but

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Speaker 1: she you know, spoke the King's English. She dressed the

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Speaker 1: nines and you know, nothing against Good Times or JJ

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Speaker 1: Walker or any of those things, because those people were

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Speaker 1: doing what they had to do in order to survive.

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Speaker 1: But those were the only role models we had on

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Speaker 1: television pretty much in the seventies.

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Speaker 3: Was like that on my ID and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so I turned on the TV and I was like, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: this person looks and sounds like my family. And I said,

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Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. And ever since then,

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Speaker 1: you know, I started pursuing it.

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Speaker 2: So you how and so you were how old at

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Speaker 2: the time when you really I mean, I mean, was

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Speaker 2: it that indelible that you said that's what I want

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Speaker 2: to do or ultimately you sort of look back and

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Speaker 2: realized there was sort of subtexts that it influenced you.

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Speaker 2: Or did you really just sort of have that magical

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Speaker 2: moment where you just one night were watching her and

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Speaker 2: said boy boom, that's that's me.

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Speaker 3: I think it.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a combination of both, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't really solidify or cement until I had a friend

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Speaker 1: who was a local weatherman and this was so this

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Speaker 1: was probably my freshman or sophomore year at LSU, and.

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Speaker 3: He was a local weatherman.

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Speaker 1: It's this handsome dude, and he was in the closet

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Speaker 1: then now he's not any you know anymore, and I

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Speaker 1: was like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I want to be on TV. That's what I

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Speaker 3: want to do.

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Speaker 1: But it was a combination of those two people I

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Speaker 1: think who were who the woman who I really admired

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Speaker 1: from afar and I did not know her then, and

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Speaker 1: then my friend who was a local weatherman who you know,

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Speaker 1: would go visit him at the station and and so

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Speaker 1: I kind of got the bug for it. So I

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Speaker 1: think that's when I fell in love with with it.

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Speaker 1: And then I started pursuing it because initially I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be an attorney. I studied like economics and I

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Speaker 1: was going to do pre law and then I hated

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Speaker 1: it and wasn't doing well. And the moment I started

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Speaker 1: doing you know, the journalism things, the TV radio things,

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Speaker 1: the writing, I was like this is it.

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Speaker 3: It clicked for me.

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Speaker 2: You remember that first job, first paycheck in journalism? What

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Speaker 2: was it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the first job I got in journalism. I

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Speaker 1: dropped out of LSU, by the way, because my listen

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Speaker 1: professor told me I would never make it as a journalist.

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Speaker 1: And I did not understand why he was saying that.

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Speaker 1: He said, well, we had to do we had to

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Speaker 1: you know, our exams. We had to take exams.

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Speaker 3: And so the.

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Speaker 1: Writing and the on camera and all that, I was

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Speaker 1: really great, but I never could edit videotape. It was

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Speaker 1: just like something that I was just like, God, this

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Speaker 1: is just way too much, too complicated for me, and

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Speaker 1: and so you know a's and everything like and I

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Speaker 1: found myself performing better than anyone in the class. And

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Speaker 1: I never understood why he would not embrace me. And

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Speaker 1: then when he told me that, that's when it clicked

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Speaker 1: for me. Because I wasn't getting into the business to

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Speaker 1: be an editor. I did not want to be a technician.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be the person who was reporting the story.

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Speaker 1: And so I left LSU. I packed up my eighty

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Speaker 1: seven jeep wrangler, moved to New York City, and then

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Speaker 1: took a job as holiday relief Christmas in New Year's

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Speaker 1: help at Macy's Harald Square, and then eventually got a

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Speaker 1: job at the local Fox station in New York City

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Speaker 1: WNYW two O five East sixty seventh Street on the

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Speaker 1: Upper East Side, and I became a news trainee, which

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Speaker 1: was five dollars an hour below the poverty level and

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Speaker 1: for six months, and then I was like, I got

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Speaker 1: to make this work. And I worked my butt off

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Speaker 1: to impress everyone. And then I got a job as

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Speaker 1: a production assistant, and then a desk assistant, satellite's feed coordinator, writer,

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Speaker 1: fuel producer, and then I became the assignment editor. And

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Speaker 1: then I started sending my tape out and got a

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Speaker 1: job and left.

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Speaker 2: And what was that first job you got after you

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Speaker 2: said those tapes out?

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Speaker 1: The first on air job, because I worked in that

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Speaker 1: newsroom for five years.

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Speaker 3: I worked in that newsroom.

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Speaker 1: It was like graduate school for journalism at Channel five.

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Speaker 3: And this was Gavin. This was pre Fox News.

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Speaker 1: This was a Fox O and O, which is an

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Speaker 1: own an operated station, and it was one of the

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Speaker 1: main ones. And there was this thing called the Fox

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Speaker 1: News Exchange, which was all of the owned and operated

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Speaker 1: stations would put their things on a feed and they'd

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Speaker 1: send it out for the rest of the country.

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Speaker 3: So it was like their little mini network. This is

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Speaker 3: for Fox News.

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Speaker 1: And then the Fox News Exchange eventually became Fox News,

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Speaker 1: which was with Shepherd Smith and all those guys and

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Speaker 1: I you know, they were all in the Fox News Exchange,

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Speaker 1: and then the people who were there became anchors and

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Speaker 1: talent on Fox News. But so I worked there for

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Speaker 1: five years, just behind the scenes, doing everything I could.

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Speaker 1: I learned every job in the newsroom, and then finally

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Speaker 1: I sent my tape out. My news director helped me

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Speaker 1: to get an agent, and my first job was in Birmingham, Alabama,

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Speaker 1: at the Fox station in Birmingham, Alabama, and I never

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Speaker 1: looked back as a weekend anchor, and then a reporter

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Speaker 1: during the week, and then filled an anchor during the week,

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Speaker 1: and then that was yeah, I never looked back.

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Speaker 2: I love it was your mom was this, parents were

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Speaker 2: cheering you on. Are they scared us to hell? At

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Speaker 2: five bucks an hour and five years of your life?

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Speaker 2: And what the hell is he doing? And why does

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Speaker 2: he come back home law school? Damn it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was some of that, But then you know,

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Speaker 1: my mom would say that and then my dad would say,

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Speaker 1: let him do what he wants, and then my mom

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Speaker 1: would secretly send me money because I couldn't pay rent.

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Speaker 1: I mean I had a you know, after the the

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Speaker 1: news trainee job, which was you know, solid pay for

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, for a limited amount of time.

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Speaker 1: I had to as a production assistant. I worked freelance.

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Speaker 1: I was per diemed, so there weren't always hours for

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Speaker 1: me to work, and so when there weren't any hours

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Speaker 1: I'd have to go in back to the Macy's and

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Speaker 1: say can you give me a couple of hours? And

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Speaker 1: then eventually I got a job in a sign company

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Speaker 1: as kind of the office manager. And then finally, you know,

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Speaker 1: w and you said we're going to hire you as

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Speaker 1: a permanent employee and then I could quit that.

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Speaker 3: But that was that was back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember Mari Povic and a Current Affair and

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Speaker 1: all those things.

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Speaker 3: Yea, I was shot in that building and I was

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Speaker 3: just doing that.

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Speaker 2: You Billy was doing that kind of stuff before he

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Speaker 2: was on the O'Reilly factor.

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Speaker 3: I think O'Reilly was hard copy. Yeah, the version of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, crazy? So was that what were you trying? Did

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Speaker 2: you want to be the guy reading the script or

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Speaker 2: you were a journalist, you were doing investigative reports too, write.

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Speaker 2: I mean you you kind of you got into every

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Speaker 2: aspect of journalism.

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Speaker 3: No, I wanted to be Look my my, my mentors.

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Speaker 1: The people I loved were Max Robinson and and Brian

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Speaker 1: Gumbole and and Peter Jennings.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting, you know, fast forward.

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Speaker 1: You know, Brian and I have become great friends, and

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Speaker 1: so the people that I grew up admiring on television

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Speaker 1: have become people I know in my that are in

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Speaker 1: my real life. And it's just kind of weird to

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Speaker 1: be in that position. I'm very grateful that I'm in

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Speaker 1: that position. But I always wanted to be the guy

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Speaker 1: out reporting the news. I didn't necessarily have to be

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Speaker 1: the anchor if I wanted. If I was going to anchor,

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Speaker 1: I said, I would like to do field anchoring because

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Speaker 1: back in the day, I don't know if you remember,

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Speaker 1: Peter Jennings was always out like in some war zone

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Speaker 1: or whatever. They and then sometimes they returned to the

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Speaker 1: studio or whatever. So that's what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: But everyone, all of my news directors, everybody saw me

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Speaker 1: as an anchor, and I was like, God, why are

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Speaker 1: these people seeing me as an anchor because I'm a

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Speaker 1: much better reporter.

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Speaker 3: And finally, you know, I went to work.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, I went to work for I got my lucky

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Speaker 1: break and went to work for NBC News very early

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Speaker 1: on in my career, and you know, and got my

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Speaker 1: writing and reporting stripes from going to correspondent school in

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Speaker 1: New York City.

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Speaker 3: That's what they did. They would set you up.

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Speaker 1: With a producer that had been at the network for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Basically was I corresponded Academy that you

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Speaker 1: went to and you learned how to write and.

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Speaker 3: Then how to pitch every show.

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Speaker 1: This is how you pitched Nightly, this is how you

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Speaker 1: pitch the Today Show, this is how you pitched you

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Speaker 1: know this other show MSNBC. Who was going to want

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Speaker 1: you to do live all the time. So it was

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Speaker 1: just like it was like I was going to school,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't just call you and say we need

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Speaker 1: to report. You had to pitch a story to get

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Speaker 1: yourself on and so yeah, And it wasn't until I

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Speaker 1: got to CNN and I went out on I think

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Speaker 1: it was a bridge collapse for my first big assignment

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Speaker 1: in the field, and someone said damn it, You're a

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Speaker 1: much better reporter than you are an anchor. And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to tell people that for like ten

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Speaker 1: fifteen years, and nobody will listen to me. And then

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Speaker 1: that's when they realized and my career started to take

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Speaker 1: off at CNN.

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Speaker 2: I love it you Star Wars in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: six in CNN, right.

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Speaker 1: I started CNN at two thousand and six after leaving

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Speaker 1: after going through the NBC system, I went to network first,

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Speaker 1: and then see how they keep pushing me into being

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Speaker 1: an anchor. The anchor was sick in Chicago. The main anchor,

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Speaker 1: this guy's name is Warner Saunders. He had cancer and

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Speaker 1: they weren't sure what was going to happen and they

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Speaker 1: needed a replacement, and so they brought me in to

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Speaker 1: anchor the five o'clock news.

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Speaker 3: From the network in New York. And so I went

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Speaker 3: to Chicago.

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Speaker 1: For three years, and then I was I hated doing

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Speaker 1: local news. Chicago was great, but I just didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be in local news anymore, and so I facts

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Speaker 1: in my resignation in the middle of the night fax

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Speaker 1: machines and then moved on to CNN.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember your first do you remember the story

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Speaker 2: for you even before CNN, perhaps where you just knew

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Speaker 2: that you got the kind of recognition or even recognized

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Speaker 2: in yourself that I could be great at this. Do

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Speaker 2: you remember this story? I mean, you mentioned obviously the

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Speaker 2: Bridge as an example and that moment where it was

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Speaker 2: that you may have been discovered. But when did you

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Speaker 2: discover yourself in this role? Was there something that broke

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Speaker 2: in your mind where you're like, man, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be good at this. Built confidence story that's more indelible

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Speaker 2: in that journalistic journey.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there was one story, Governor, but

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Speaker 1: I just remember when I gained my confidence and I

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Speaker 1: and that confidence didn't come through, you know, someone putting

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Speaker 1: me in a position to be able to do something.

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Speaker 3: It came through hard work.

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Speaker 1: And so when I was in Philadelphia at the NBC station,

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Speaker 1: I'm skipping over a lot of my career because when

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Speaker 1: I worked at the Fox station in Birmingham and then

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Speaker 1: I eventually went to Saint Louis and then NBC discovered

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Speaker 1: me and pulled me away and said we're going to

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Speaker 1: send you to Philadelphia for a year and let you

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Speaker 1: train there, and then we're going to bring you the network,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, bullshit, you're not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then surely after three years they called me up

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Speaker 1: and said, we want you to come to the network.

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Speaker 1: But when I was working in Philadelphia, we would have

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Speaker 1: a breaking news like so, so the assignment desk would

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Speaker 1: assign you a story at night, and that was always

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Speaker 1: a nighttime reporter.

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Speaker 3: It was always the primetime reporter.

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Speaker 1: And so the assignment desk would assign stories and then

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Speaker 1: they would leave one reporter to do just breaking and

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Speaker 1: so that meant you went and got in the satellite

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Speaker 1: truck for those vans, and you would just drive around

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Speaker 1: the city and look for breaking news. And so in

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Speaker 1: the assignment desk would say, uh, all right, look there's

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Speaker 1: a fire at fifty seventh then wherever intently, go check

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Speaker 1: it out. Or police are chasing some guy at such

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Speaker 1: and such, go check it out. Or one night the

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Speaker 1: Kimba Matumbo's truck SUV was stolen and police are looking

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Speaker 1: for it. Guess who found it on a street in

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Speaker 1: South Philadelphia. Yours truly, riding around in a NBC five

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Speaker 1: microwave van. It wasn't a satellite truck, sorry, it was

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Speaker 1: a microwave van. Microwave truck, and so I just remember

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Speaker 1: because I would be thrown into those situations, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't you know, years before. I'd be frightened,

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Speaker 1: as like if you say, if they said, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: you got to go out and do.

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Speaker 3: This story, it's breaking at my heart would be racing.

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Speaker 1: And finally I got to a point where it was

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Speaker 1: just like sitting in my living room. And so I

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Speaker 1: remember showing up at scenes thirty seconds or a couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes before the show would start, and then we

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Speaker 1: didn't have the satellite and the microwave or whatever the

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Speaker 1: signal set until like thirty seconds before the newscast, and

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Speaker 1: they would say, Donna you set.

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Speaker 3: This is my hair brush? Right.

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Speaker 1: They'd say, Donna, you set, and I would say, I guess,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know what I'm going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: And then they'd say, oh, we're going to go to

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Speaker 1: the break on the scene, don Lemon now, and I'd

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Speaker 1: say that's right. Renee and Larry blah blah blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I would talk like and they

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Speaker 1: would go rap and I was like, why'd you guys

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Speaker 1: wrap me so early?

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Speaker 3: They say, you talk for three minutes.

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Speaker 1: We wanted a two minute report, and so and I

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Speaker 1: realized like, okay, I can do this. So it wasn't

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was one single story, but

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Speaker 1: then I realized I had the confidence to do it.

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Speaker 1: And once that confidence came, I very quickly went to

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Speaker 1: the network and then I just again never really looked back.

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Speaker 2: And you were what at CNN that career from six

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Speaker 2: that was seventeen years at CNN.

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Speaker 1: Almost seventeen years from six to twenty three, close to

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Speaker 1: seventeen years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what.

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Speaker 2: Was that in that journey? I mean, what did you

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Speaker 2: I mean sort of the fits and starts, Cable the

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Speaker 2: competition and cable CNN being you know, with that such

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean iconic CNN international audience, MSNBC's now

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Speaker 2: starting to here obviously Fox begins to dominate. What was

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Speaker 2: your you know, those sort of fits in what was

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Speaker 2: your experience the tensions in the context of what was

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Speaker 2: happening surrounding CNN and everyone trying to take CNN down

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Speaker 2: be more competitive. I mean, what was what was that

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Speaker 2: journey like over those seventeen years, were there any sort

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Speaker 2: of trend lines that would you would look back sort

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Speaker 2: of that broad strokes would sort of define those seventeen years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I feel like I kind of rode.

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Speaker 1: A wave of you know, what is it, ebbs and

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Speaker 1: flows or whatever. I felt like I kind of high

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Speaker 1: ties and low tides at CNN. And when I came in,

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Speaker 1: I think CNN was at a sort of a low

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Speaker 1: tide period. And I was stationed in Atlanta and doing

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Speaker 1: the afternoon CNN newsroom with Don Lemon and Kira Phillips,

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Speaker 1: and I would do, you know, the afternoon news, and

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Speaker 1: then I went to I did, and then I started

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Speaker 1: doing weekend primetime. But you know, it was CNN was

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Speaker 1: then not it was sort of in dissent. When I

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Speaker 1: first started, the ratings were very low, the shows were

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Speaker 1: not very interesting. People were sort of throwing things against

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Speaker 1: the wall, and a lot of it was not working.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the primetime anchors and times kept changing,

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Speaker 1: and the only constant was I think at that time,

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Speaker 1: and he hadn't been I don't think there, you know,

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Speaker 1: for a very long time was Anderson. And that was

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Speaker 1: about it. It was Anderson and then gosh, what was his name,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Brown? If you remember, Aaron Brown was there, and

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Speaker 1: so there was this sort of tug of war about

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Speaker 1: what CNN should be and what its identity should be,

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Speaker 1: and and you know, I had this great respect.

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Speaker 3: For CNN and and and just just the facts.

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Speaker 1: And so I sat there for a while, you know,

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Speaker 1: in that Atlanta news room, doing the weekend news for

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Speaker 1: a long time, and then I came to the conclusion

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Speaker 1: that this is not what I wanted my career to be.

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Speaker 1: I did not want to be the weekend anchor. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be on the weekend ghetto, which is

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Speaker 1: where they put seriously, at one point, all of the

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Speaker 1: anchors of color were on the weekend, and there were

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Speaker 1: no black anchors in prime time, and yeah, in prime time,

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Speaker 1: and all every single anchor on the weekend was either

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Speaker 1: black or maybe Asian. And so I said, this is

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Speaker 1: not what I wanted to do. And so they hired

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Speaker 1: Jess Sucker to become the head of CNN, and I

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Speaker 1: took a trip to New York to meet him, and

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Speaker 1: I said, He said, why did you want to meet

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Speaker 1: with me?

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Speaker 3: And I said, because.

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Speaker 1: I really admire and respect you, but so I wanted

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Speaker 1: to tell you in person that I don't want to

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Speaker 1: work here anymore. And he said, why not, I said,

442
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 1: because I don't want to waste away on the weekends.

443
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 1: And I am, I can't live in Atlanta anymore. It's

444
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: just not for me. And I said, so, you know,

445
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 1: thank you for the opportunity. I hope that you do

446
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: well here. And he said, well, you don't have to

447
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: live in Atlanta and I said, yeah, I know that,

448
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: and he goes, no, no, no, I mean you don't

449
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: have to live in Atlanta. You can still work for CNN. Sorry,

450
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know I would do this move to New York.

451
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: And I said what, because no one had ever spoken

452
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: to me that way. And he said, you know, I

453
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 1: really believe in you, and I've been watching your coverage.

454
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: This was during Newtown and he said, you were the

455
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: best correspondent that we had an anchor in the field

456
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: because you station yourself right in front.

457
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: Of the the Memorial and you're the best thing that

458
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 3: we have.

459
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: And he said in during the Whitney Houston coverage, you're

460
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: the best reporter in the country.

461
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 3: And he said, I really want you to stay here,

462
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 3: and I promise you you'll have opportunities.

463
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: I moved and I became the ten PM achor for

464
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: eight years, almost nine years so yeah, sorry, but when

465
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: someone you know, it's someone believes in you like that,

466
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: it's just it means a lot.

467
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. Sorry, how and you

468
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,959
Speaker 2: Jeff was there for how many years? When did that?

469
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: When did that shift?

470
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: I think Jeff started in thirteen and he was there.

471
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: Till twenty two, twenty one, twenty two, yeah, twenty two.

472
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you you lasted another year or so at sea,

473
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: and you know, and when we need to tread over that,

474
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: but you.

475
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: Know, you can ask me whatever you want.

476
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: Javin you no, man, because I mean, you know, but

477
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: so much reporting. You've talked about it in so many occasions.

478
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, just reinforcing for that, for you,

479
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 2: that that, I mean, that was a big surprise, right,

480
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: I mean you objectively didn't see that necessarily coming.

481
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: No, I didn't see it coming. He tried to give me.

482
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: Jeff and I became very close, and but I think

483
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: he tried to give me a hint that something was

484
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: stirring and I didn't.

485
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 3: Pick up on it.

486
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with him about something. I

487
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: wanted some advice, and I said, I just need to

488
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: know about this, and he said, well, there's something that

489
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: has caused me some trouble lately by and I just

490
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: wasn't paying.

491
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: Attention to it.

492
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: And then you know, within a week or two he resigned,

493
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: and you know, and you know, the first call I'm

494
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: not sure if he called me, if I called him

495
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, nothing changes, I still love you.

496
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: And he said, yes, same here, and that was that.

497
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: And they told me I was told not to say

498
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: anything about it on the air, and so you know me, right,

499
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: you told me not to do something. So the person

500
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: who has look when I said, I wrote the ups

501
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: and downs of CNN. By the time Jeff left CNN,

502
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: we had had the highest ratings we'd ever had in

503
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: the history of the network and the biggest profits that

504
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: we'd had in the history of the network. And it

505
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: was because it was through his leadership.

506
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: And so.

507
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: Because he had what he had done for me and

508
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: what he had created at that network where people are

509
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: extremely usually in television, people are extremely competitive. It's very political,

510
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: and you know, this person doesn't like that person.

511
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 3: And whatever.

512
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: We all had our own thing, like don you do

513
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: ten to midnight? Anderson you do eight or eight to

514
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: ten or whatever, And we had our own thing and nobody.

515
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: I didn't. You know, I wasn't jealous of Anderson.

516
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: I didn't want his spot, he didn't want my spot,

517
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: or you know, none of that. We all had our

518
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: own lane, and we all liked working with each other.

519
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: It's just a great working environment. And I had been

520
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: at Fox and NBC, and I knew like this was

521
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: something that was unusual, and people did not. If you

522
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: had not been through a sort of traditional background where

523
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: you went from station to station to station to you know,

524
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: work your way up, then you wouldn't know this. You

525
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: would think that it's like this all the time. And

526
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: so when when they said don't say anything, I didn't.

527
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: I didn't write it in the teleprompter, but you know,

528
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: before the show, ten seconds before the show, I hit

529
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: click enter and I put it in the teleprompter and

530
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: it was my goodbye to Jeff, and I said that

531
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: we lost the heart of this network and blah blah

532
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And then I said, now we'll do

533
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: what Jeff wants us to do, and that is go

534
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: on and tell the news without fear or favor, however

535
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: I've worded it. And then I went on to do

536
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: the news. And because I just I'm a very loyal person,

537
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: and I think that, especially if someone dedicates their life

538
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: and to a company, that they deserve to get credit

539
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: for it. Because nobody is perfect, and Jeff looked out

540
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: for so many people, and to have someone to have

541
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 1: no one stand up for him or say anything about him,

542
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: just have him disappear.

543
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: I just think it was.

544
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: Untoward, unprofessional, inhumane, and just you know, lacking of any

545
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: heart or any integrity. And then you know, a year

546
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: or so later, the same thing happened to me. They

547
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: just said okay, goodbye, and I didn't even get to

548
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: say goodbye. I never got to say goodbye to my

549
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: audience or anything, even my co workers.

550
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: Do you think, I mean, was it do you think

551
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: that night and the reason you're highlighting it, besides the loyalties,

552
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: that was the seed that you know ultimately was planted

553
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: in terms of just the distrust perhaps the new leadership

554
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: had ultimately in you or did or did you or

555
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 2: that they were already in that mindset of transition beyond

556
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: just Jeff looking at the talent even you earlier.

557
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that they I don't think they wanted

558
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: me there from the beginning. As a matter of fact,

559
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think for a while they were okay,

560
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: they were going to try to figure out what to

561
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: do with me. But I know for a fact that

562
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: they that they did not want me, and there were

563
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: other people at the network that they weren't happy with,

564
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: and so I didn't know that.

565
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: But I think it was harder to get rid.

566
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: Of me than anyone else, because how do you get

567
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: rid of the gay, black guy without getting all kinds

568
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: of you know, criticism. So what you have to do

569
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: then is destroy someone's reputation. And I think that and

570
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: not that I think, I know that's what they did,

571
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: because reporters would call me and saying, we're getting all

572
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: these news, negative news stories about you that we have

573
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: never heard about you and all the years that you've

574
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: been at CNN, and the calls are coming from inside

575
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: the house. And so these people were, you know, leaking

576
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: stuff to reporters, false information, And the reporters would call

577
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: me up and say, hey, don heads up.

578
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you who it is.

579
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: But because that would you know, wouldn't be it would

580
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: go against journalistic integrity or to being a good journalist.

581
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: But you better watch your back because the calls are

582
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: coming from inside the house, and I'd say, thank you

583
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: very much for that, and they you know, again, I

584
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: can't tell you who, but yeah.

585
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: And then and then later after I left, I found

586
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: out that.

587
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: It was true, like one true from the source, one

588
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: of the sources who was inside the house.

589
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: And so they were just looking for that moment, whatever

590
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: it might be, and obviously the Nicki Haley comment became

591
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: that moment. Or do you feel it was that? Or

592
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously they wanted you to move on. But

593
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: did you were you? I mean when you made that comment,

594
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: which you know, you didn't even think twice about it, right,

595
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: did you?

596
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: No?

597
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: No, when I made the comment, I didn't think twice

598
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: about it, because I said, if you actually go back

599
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: and look at the video and read the transcript, I said,

600
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I believe that. And so what I

601
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: was trying to say in that moment, I could have

602
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: been clear about it, but you know, it's on TV,

603
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: and everything was you know, you're going and that They're like, oh,

604
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: you got to get to the break or whatever. But

605
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: what I was saying is that is how society treats women.

606
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: But that's not what I believe. And so they took

607
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: that and used it as you know, a pretext, and

608
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: I told I explained.

609
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: To them what I meant, and you know, they wanted

610
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: to write an apology.

611
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: I said, why am I apologizing for something that I

612
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: didn't really say? And then but you know, hey, it

613
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: is what it is, and it was a blessing in disguise,

614
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: I believe. But what the most disheartening thing about it

615
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: was that I knew Nicki Haley and we had a

616
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: pretty good relationship, and she immediately fundraised off of it.

617
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: Rather than saying, don what did you say? What did

618
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: you mean? And so she used it for political expediency,

619
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: which was to me, I was like, wow, does she

620
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: have any integrity at all? Because if Nicki Haley or

621
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: someone that I knew, even just sort of tangentially had

622
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: said something about me, I would call them up and

623
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: say what do you mean by that?

624
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: But she never did that.

625
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean I don't want to fast forward.

626
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about the fundraising we see with Donald

627
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: Trump off the death of an American soldier in this

628
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: Iranian war, and the lengths to which dare I say

629
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: politicians will go to exploit those things. Don When you

630
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: when you know.

631
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: Also, I mean, look at the look at how the

632
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: over the death of Charlie Kirk. There were a lot

633
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: of people who drifted off of his death. I do,

634
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: I believe in the Republican Party. And there are a

635
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: lot of people made money and fundraising off of his death.

636
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry to.

637
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: Interrupt, No, hardly, And I want to get to all that,

638
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: but I want to go back to this. You know,

639
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: I love this, you know, notion of confidence and you know,

640
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: and and shaping on your journey and how every sort

641
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: of level and every sort of relationship to newsrooms, journalism, local, uh, state, national,

642
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: on the field in you know, running your own shows,

643
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: different different moments and different times and networks. But so

644
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: you're all of a sudden, now, man, you're out after

645
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: all these years, sort of midstream, your career sort of peaked,

646
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: don lemon. Everybody knows you. You've branded yourself and aready

647
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: remarkable and iconic ways. Uh, and now you're out and

648
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: those moments, you know, not having any chances you say

649
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: to even talk to your audience and you know, say goodbye.

650
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: I mean, so how just on a personal level, I

651
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: mean was that, I mean, how shattering was that to

652
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: your confidence? Forget your brand, forget your professional life, but

653
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: just to you as a person, you know, was there

654
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: a lot of introspection? Was there? You were you moments

655
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: of real doubt? Did you feel you weren't declined personally

656
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: in terms of just you know, feeling depressed anxious? What

657
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: I mean, or you know, tell us a little bit

658
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: about that journey in the immediate after aftermath.

659
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: God, that's so much, that's a lot. How much time

660
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: do you have?

661
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: I look, I know that nothing lasts forever. I mean,

662
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, you think you have term limits. We have

663
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: term limits and when we when we hold jobs is

664
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: I never thought that the scene in job would be forever.

665
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: But I thought that I would be treated with way

666
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: more respect and kindness after dedicating so much of my

667
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: life and career. And you know, there were years and

668
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: years where I did not take vacations. I don't think

669
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: I took a vacation for ten years. And finally they said,

670
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: don you got to take a vacation, like you have

671
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: to take a couple of days.

672
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 3: Off, And so I just thought that I would.

673
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: You know, I did not like my exit from CNN,

674
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: but I got to be honest with you. When my agent,

675
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: Jay Sores called me, and there was a little bit

676
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: of relief. I gotta be honest, because I did not

677
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: like the direction the network was going, and it did

678
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: not feel the same, and people were not happy working there,

679
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: and people were afraid to even say things, and you know, like,

680
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, we may be being bugged. It was

681
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: just really weird. It was a weird time to be there, seriously,

682
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: and so there was a little bit of a relief.

683
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: But then but also you know, I was I was like,

684
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, what the fuck? Like, guys, you know, I've

685
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: been a big part of this network and there are

686
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: people there who I really love and who really love me,

687
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: And what about all the people who you know, dedicated

688
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: night after night watching me, Like I don't get to

689
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: say goodbye, and you know, and you don't trust me

690
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: enough to go on air live and be like, you know,

691
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: and what do you expect me to say? Like you

692
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: expect me to tell that You're worried that I'm going

693
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: to tell the truth about what you were doing?

694
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 3: Is that and how you want it? You railroaded me?

695
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: Is that what you wanted? Is that what you were

696
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: afraid of?

697
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: So look, but afterwards, I never felt diminished because my

698
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: Mama raised me right. And you know, I've never seen

699
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: a righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

700
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: So I never thought that. I never thought that I

701
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: was diminished, and every single day I was.

702
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: Reminded of and I am now. In the beginning, it

703
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: was we miss you on CNN. I can't believe that

704
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: you're gone. Oh gosh, we miss you. And I still

705
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: hear that now, but more so I hear, oh, my God,

706
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing. I love what you're doing now.

707
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: This is so great. I love you even more than

708
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: when you were on CNN. So some things are blessing

709
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: in disguise, And so it was for a while it

710
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: was it felt weird not being at the matrix of

711
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: every big story that happens in the world as I

712
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: always was, and so that part was a little disconcerting.

713
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: And then like what am I going to do with

714
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: my day because I had so many responsibilities. And then

715
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: I said, just said, I'm going to take a year off,

716
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: and then in that year, I'm going to decide what

717
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: I want to do. And at the end of that year,

718
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: if I there is no passion to do anything, then

719
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: I'll take some more time off. But I had the

720
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: luxury to do that because you know, I got fired

721
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: without calls, so they had to pay me. And I

722
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: had three and a half more years left on my contract,

723
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: so I was like, I want.

724
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: To sit here with my feet up for a long time.

725
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: I could do it.

726
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: So Yeah, but more than anything, it was insulting the

727
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: way that they that that my exit was insulting. And

728
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: many of the people I respected who were in leadership

729
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: positions at the network showed their true colors and their

730
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: their lack of the backbone and any sort of morals.

731
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: They were.

732
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: Everybody's just pretty much a survivor. I just, you know,

733
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: I just got to keep my job. I can't speak up.

734
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh god. So that part, you know,

735
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: was a little bit tough. And the other part is

736
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: too that the only thing that there's one other thing

737
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: that really gets to me, and that is people believing

738
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: some of the things that they read about me that

739
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: are not true, that I am a misogynist or anti women,

740
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: And that really hurts, especially growing up in a family

741
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: of all women, being the only boy, and having my

742
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: mom and my grandmother and my sisters and you know,

743
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: all the women in my neighborhood raised me. It's like

744
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: hmm and and then and having every like every single

745
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: opportunity pretty much for a young uh woman talent or

746
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: correspondent came through my show. My show and my showrunner

747
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: executive producer, Maria Spinella.

748
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: Woman.

749
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: We would look for those opportunities to invite new people on,

750
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: and many of those new people were women starting at

751
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: the network, and we were like, we need more women.

752
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: If you want to get something done, you hire a woman.

753
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: So we would bring them on and so a number

754
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: of the people that I gave opportunities to, you know,

755
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: it was kind of disappointing.

756
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 3: But other than that, I don't look back.

757
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: And I just had to figure out what was next

758
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: in my life. And I figured that out and.

759
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 2: You figured it out though first by with therapy too.

760
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: Don't forget that part is very important. Therapy and some

761
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: good antidepressants.

762
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: Wow, look at that. Appreciate Yeah, I appreciate the honesty.

763
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: I don't believe I like to take the stigma off

764
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: of mental health and I did not want to do

765
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: antidepressants for a long time when I left CNN, But

766
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: I did have a therapist and I knew, you know,

767
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm smart enough and I've been around enough to know

768
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: that you need to talk about those things. And even

769
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: if you don't get on antidepressants or whatever it is,

770
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: you need to discuss it. And finally my therapist said,

771
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I don't think I need it

772
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: right now.

773
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 3: I don't think I really need it.

774
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: And he says, you know, the Lord helps those who

775
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: help themselves, and I said, okay, send me a prescription.

776
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 3: And it's weird, because you know I was.

777
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: I was okay, But then all of a sudden, life

778
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: came back in like in living color vivid.

779
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.

780
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: And even the the sessions, the talk sessions with my therapist,

781
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: I got more out of it. They became more productive,

782
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: and I started to enjoy being at home and spending time,

783
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: like you know, with my husband and cooking.

784
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 3: For him like, hey, I made a great dish.

785
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: When you get home, weight you're going to see this,

786
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: and then and spending time with my dogs. I was like,

787
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: this is really an opportunity that I may not get

788
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: until finally one day when I retire. And so yeah,

789
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: after all that, did I go through all of those things, Yes.

790
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: But I want everybody out there to know I went

791
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 3: through it. Not alone.

792
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: I had help. I had friends around me, I had therapists,

793
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: and I also was open to, you know, if I

794
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: needed a little help from an antidepressant.

795
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 2: I did it. I love it. I love the honestly,

796
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: I love the transparency and for others that are on

797
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: those journeys, that journey though, you took a call from Twitter,

798
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: took a call from US, took a call. First, let's

799
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: let's not forget a little bit of Elon Musk, Don Lemon,

800
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 2: come on? What was that? So you landed on you know,

801
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 2: the Lemon drop. We'll get to all this, you know,

802
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: Don Lemon, show your network and everything you're doing now

803
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: and how you're crushing it. But you took a little

804
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: bit of a detour, hoping, you know, to build a

805
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: network platfor or at least platform on on their network. Right,

806
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: did Elon Musk call you? Yeah?

807
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: You called him?

808
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: I Well, it was it was basically it was basically

809
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: the only thing that I could do because I was

810
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: still contractually obligated to CNN. Right, I had contractual obligations,

811
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: so I couldn't take a job and Cable unless I

812
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: just wanted to lose all my money but or get

813
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: sued so I couldn't do that and broadcast. There were

814
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: stipulations on any anything that I did, there were stipulations

815
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: on it. And so I had to renegotiate my exit

816
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: with CNN, and I finally got them to agree to

817
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: digital and and.

818
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 3: Which was smart.

819
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: At the time, I didn't realize how smart it was

820
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: because that's where everything was going.

821
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 3: So as all this was happening, I.

822
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: Started to realize, like, why why do I want to

823
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: go back to traditional television because it's on the decline.

824
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: And you know, Elon Musk had put out there that

825
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: he wanted to, you know, I should bring my show

826
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: there like Tucker did. And and then I got a

827
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: call from uh Ari Emanuel who said, wait, which one

828
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: I forget? All right?

829
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ari, all right.

830
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rom is there in Chicago and saying, you know,

831
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: yeah you should you should try this with and Ari

832
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: was not my agent, and he was friends with Elon,

833
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, well I'll take his phone call,

834
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, I'll take his phone call. And we talked

835
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: for a little bit. And then I talked to him

836
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: one or two times, and once it was a long conversation.

837
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: They were in Paris, he and his mom, his mom

838
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: was sitting at the table, and as we were talking,

839
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: it was a nice conversation. And then but I decided

840
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: that I wanted to wait. I knew that Elon was

841
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: kind of an erratic person, like you know, and I

842
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: don't mean that in a derogatory way, but you know, right,

843
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: And so I said, they were going to hire this

844
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: woman from NBC god, I can't remember her name now

845
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: and who had run head on their head platform to

846
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: run their new platform. And I said, I'll wait till,

847
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, another adult comes on board and someone who's

848
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: you know, who knows how to deal with these things.

849
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: And then the conversations picked back up, and eventually she

850
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 3: convinced me to do it under the.

851
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: With the agreement that I would have complete editorial control

852
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: and that I would have to at some times, at

853
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: some points criticize even the owner of that platform. And

854
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: she said, yes, that's great, we love it. That's what

855
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: he wants, that's what we want. And then, you know,

856
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: the first interview, that's not what he wanted.

857
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: Or with Elon Musk. For those that don't know, you

858
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: sat down and you interviewed your boss, Elon Musk, and

859
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: that was a hell of an interview. I mean you

860
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: came in, you know, what, would you let me ask you?

861
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: Would you what did you make of the interview? You thought?

862
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: Were you I mean, clearly he wasn't prepared for your

863
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: line of questioning. Were you prepared for his response? You

864
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: knew what you were doing. I mean, you knew what

865
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: you were doing. Of course you knew what you were doing.

866
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: I was I prepared for his response. Look, I never

867
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: know what someone's gonna say, and I never assumed. But yes,

868
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: I'm prepared in the sense that I can just sit

869
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: there and listen to it or.

870
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: And or I can you know, challenge.

871
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: Or question or follow up on certain things, because that's

872
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: what journalists do. And so but during the interview, I

873
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 1: asked him about most of the things. Ninety some percent

874
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 1: of the time of that interview I asked him about

875
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: things that he had said publicly or things that he

876
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: had done publicly. And so I didn't, you know, you

877
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: should be able to answer that. And I didn't think

878
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: that I, you know, attacked him in any way. That

879
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 1: wasn't the intent at all, And I was The intent

880
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: was to one is, just to be a journalist, to

881
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: ask him questions and in a way to show people

882
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: that two people who come from different backgrounds and who

883
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: have different sort of political beliefs and ideologies, that we

884
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: could actually sit and have a conversation and disagree with

885
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: each other and it would be good for the platform,

886
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: which is exactly what he wanted. To sort of moderate

887
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: the platform so that it wasn't so far right and

888
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't so extreme, And that was it.

889
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: That was the only goal, was to have a great

890
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: conversation with him and say, hey, see, this is what

891
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: I'm trying to do here.

892
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to change who I am or what

893
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: I believe because I'm going on a you know, I'm

894
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: doing business with Elon Musk and you see him as

895
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: a sort of right wing radical or whatever it is.

896
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: I'm still going to be done. But I'm going to

897
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: go on that platform and try.

898
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: To do what he said, what he wanted, and what

899
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: I wanted is to try to moderate it a little bit.

900
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: That was it, But didn't work out that way, did it.

901
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: Did you did you feel the pressure? I mean, I

902
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: imagine you got a lot of input people saying what

903
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: the hell are you doing over there? Don you don't

904
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: sell out all? Yeah, et cetera. So you know, I

905
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: mean you must have then, I mean, I'm just curious,

906
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: did you I mean you must have then come in

907
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: You came in that interview with a little bit of

908
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: you know, you have to overcompensate for that, right, You're

909
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: gonna have to demonstrate that in that interview. No, I

910
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: mean did you feel like you didn't feel that? You

911
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 2: just I don't feel that kind of pressure. You never

912
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 2: felt that.

913
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: No, you can't know.

914
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: You can't feel that pressure when you if you're a journalist,

915
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: you can't feel that pressure, because I know I don't.

916
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that pressure. My north star is my

917
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: north star, number one facts and and I live in reality.

918
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: And in a way, I wanted people to understand him.

919
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: And I wanted to understand him because I didn't.

920
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 3: You know, I have I don't. I'm not a tech reporter.

921
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,240
Speaker 3: I don't sit down and study Elon Musk.

922
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: So these were just honest questions about him and what

923
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: he said. And I was like, and I thought it

924
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: was as I mentioned to you in this interview, you

925
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: know about mental health and all of that. And when

926
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: he said that he took ketamine because it helped him,

927
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: I was like, that's great. People should know about that

928
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: and perhaps it could help someone else. And I had

929
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: been doing stories on drug fare therapy, which included there,

930
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: which included I mean where it was where members of

931
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: our military had had PSD and they started doing guided

932
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: drug therapy and boom, it got rid of it faster

933
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: than talk therapy, and it changed their lives.

934
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 3: So I thought that was important.

935
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: But I guess he or some people thought that I

936
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: was digging into things that were personal, But he's the

937
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: one who talked about it, and so I was just

938
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: trying to illuminate the situation and you know, broadn it

939
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: so that people could understand him more and perhaps he

940
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: would make a difference. So no, I did not feel

941
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: that pressure. I feel that I don't think that I'd

942
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: been around long enough to know that from one interview

943
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 1: that you should not feel pressure to sort of make

944
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: your bones in one interview. You make your bones over

945
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: time with the body of your work, and not necessarily

946
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: one single thing. So I wasn't really trying to prove

947
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: a point there. There was no there was no need

948
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: for me to prove a point, because I feel like

949
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: after seventeen years at CNN and however long I was

950
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: at NBC, that. I think people know that I'm a

951
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: journalist and they know what my poliefs.

952
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 2: Are, and they certainly knew it after watching that interview,

953
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 2: which would talk about.

954
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: That interview was prescient, Governor. Everything in that interview.

955
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: That came out of that interview, about the great replacement theory,

956
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: about donating money to candidates, about diversity, equity and inclusion,

957
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: every single one of those things became huge topics all

958
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 1: like eight months or a year after I did the interview.

959
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: So I was sort of like looking around the corner,

960
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: trying to show people what might happen. And if that

961
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: is not an indication of good journalism, then I don't

962
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: know what it ish.

963
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: Look at you, well done. I like the spike and

964
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: spiking that spiking the mic in that respect. Yeah, no,

965
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: I mean no argument for me. What what in that context? Though? What?

966
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: What did you get the call ten minutes later saying

967
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: you're out of here? Man?

968
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: What?

969
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: I mean? What happened?

970
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: No?

971
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: After that I got a call. Were there other interviews

972
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: that we never saw that were canned? I mean, what happened? No?

973
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: Another call from Jane, my agent. J It was it

974
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 3: was a rainy night.

975
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 2: It was a rainy night. In Georgia.

976
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: There was a rainy night at Newark Airport. We had

977
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: just landed from Austin where we interviewed him. I think

978
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: we interviewed him on a Friday and then or and

979
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: then we had a Saturday off or something like that.

980
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: Or we interviewed him on a Saturday forget, and then

981
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: Sunday night when we landed, I got a call. I

982
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: think I got a call from Jane. He said, uh,

983
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: Elon just called or something. He canceled the contract and

984
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'm taxing.

985
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to call you back.

986
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: And so as soon as we you know, as soon

987
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: as we could use the phone. My executive producer, Jonathan

988
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: was sitting with me, and we took the call and

989
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: we were like, okay, I don't know why it was.

990
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: It was an interview, but it was tough. We've had

991
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: tougher interviews, you know. I've interviewed politicians and as you know,

992
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 1: you guys don't always like the questions that we ask

993
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: and it can be very contentious.

994
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: Like don that's why I on this side. This is

995
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: more like it keep going.

996
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: Yes yes, and so, uh, we didn't think that there

997
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: was anything that unusual. And so but he did and

998
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: so that was that and then we've dealt with it,

999
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: you know ever since. I mean, we've dealt with it,

1000
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: and as you know, I'm still an active litigation with

1001
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: him because so I can't say much more.

1002
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, except all of this is

1003
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 3: public knowledge. Everyone knows. We've already talked about this, everything

1004
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: that I've shared with you.

1005
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: But I mean that back but you know that back

1006
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: and forth is something that adults, I believe understand.

1007
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm gonna share, I'm gonna, you know, share.

1008
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: A little bit, you know. I have those conversations with

1009
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: you over text, like, man, you interviewed this person and ah,

1010
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: you know you should have You should have pushed him

1011
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: more on this and more on that and right on this,

1012
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: and then you can go, well, that's not I was

1013
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: trying to do something else whatever, and it's like, okay,

1014
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: all right, great, but we're still friendly. We still we're

1015
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: still friends. It doesn't you know. We don't have to

1016
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: fight or hate each other because we disagree with something

1017
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: the other person has done.

1018
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: I don't agree.

1019
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: I love my mom and my husband the most in

1020
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: the world, and I don't agree with them one hundred

1021
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: percent of the time, especially being in a marriage.

1022
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 3: Do you know there are very few times that we

1023
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 3: agree on shit?

1024
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 2: So oh, well, I I look you. So that was so,

1025
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: But that's the journey you talked about, you know, just

1026
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 2: you know, the the worst of times, the best of times,

1027
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: things reveal themselves, opportunities present themselves. And so you then

1028
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 2: went from that to this or did you try something

1029
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: in between? In terms of no, I wish from that

1030
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 2: this right to this.

1031
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: So I went from yeah, this was well, this was

1032
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: part that was part of this, that was supposed to

1033
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: be the start of this, that was going to be

1034
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: the you know, my sort of seed money or first client.

1035
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: Was this this you know, and that that was the

1036
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: agreement that we had. And so I was like, well,

1037
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: just because that happened, it doesn't mean that I'm going

1038
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: to give up.

1039
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, I'm don lemon. I'm not doing

1040
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 3: that ship. And so I just.

1041
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: Leaned into it and I did what where I did

1042
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: what I did best, and that was to be a journalist,

1043
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: to be an on air person, to go out and

1044
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: talk to people or invite them in in an environment

1045
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: or situation like this, and to discuss and to have

1046
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: interesting conversations and and to serve you know the public,

1047
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: and in many ways I'm serving my constituents and similar

1048
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: similarly to what you do. So yeah, and that I

1049
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: just said, I was just dogged about in my pursuit

1050
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: of doing this. And so that's where the Don Lemon

1051
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 1: Shows has taken me to to how much we are?

1052
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: How many years now is the Don Lemon Show? I

1053
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: mean this current format? I mean you keep iterating, you know,

1054
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: I mean the hot takes and lemon drops and you

1055
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: know you're doing the five five o'clock every day hit.

1056
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 2: You're doing me this in the current format? How long

1057
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: you been? It's a lot of work, It's.

1058
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 3: It is a lot of work. I think the.

1059
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find out the exact date of our show.

1060
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: Let me see the Don Lemon Show. I'm actually googling

1061
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: it round right now. I think it will be two years.

1062
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: I think it was like two years. What is today?

1063
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: It may be two years today. Our first show may

1064
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: have dropped.

1065
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 2: Come on on Saint Patrick's Day two years ago.

1066
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: I think it may have been like March seventeen.

1067
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: I forget somewhere around, but this is the two year

1068
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 1: mark of the Don Lemon show, And.

1069
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: Has it been right? What's been the most what's been

1070
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: the most I mean, for you the most interesting part

1071
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: of it. What's been the biggest surprise is it? I mean,

1072
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: has it been harder, has it been easier? Has it

1073
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: been more rewarding? Less rewarding? You say it's a grind.

1074
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: I mean it's a lot of work. What what's you know,

1075
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: what's been that journey the last two years?

1076
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: It's it's more rewarding, Gavin, in a real human sense.

1077
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: You know, you know, having someone do your makeup every day,

1078
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: and you know, fancy clothes and all that stuff, and

1079
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: I mean that has its you know, perks or whatever.

1080
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 3: But it has been more rewarding.

1081
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: In as I say, in a real way because it's

1082
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: me and there's very little artifice about it. There are

1083
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: fewer barriers between me and the people who are relying

1084
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: on me to convey the news to them. They you know,

1085
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in my home right now, and so they

1086
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: people feel like they know me. And if they feel

1087
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: like they know me, they feel like it's easier for

1088
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: them to trust me. Right, And so I started off

1089
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: in a studio in Midtown that I was spending way

1090
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: too much money on and it was doing okay, but

1091
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 1: there was no connection there, and the audience kept saying

1092
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: to me, you know, you're doing cable news light. They

1093
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: didn't put it that way, but that's what it felt like.

1094
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: And I decided, like I was sitting one day and

1095
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'm doing the same thing I

1096
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: did at CNN, except just a bit different. Why am

1097
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,959
Speaker 1: I doing this? I'm going to sit in my living

1098
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: room every day and I'm going to do a show

1099
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: called Live a five and steal it from Chuck Scarboro

1100
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: and Sue Simmons here in New York back in the day.

1101
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:39,439
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna

1102
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: build a community, not just going to like a station,

1103
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: This is a community. And I sat here every day

1104
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes there would be hundreds watching, then a thousand watching,

1105
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: in two thousand watching, three thousand and four thousand, and

1106
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: then now we're up to like if we get below,

1107
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen thousand or so, we're like, ooh, we're

1108
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: not doing twenty. You know, we're not doing great. And

1109
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: so that every day and then eventually on the total

1110
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: watches and views, hundreds of thousands of people watch over

1111
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: time and and I've created, quite honestly, the lemon Nation,

1112
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: and so the thing that's been the most rewarded.

1113
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: Did you steal that from Michael Savage? Didn't you do

1114
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 2: Savage Nation back in the day?

1115
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 3: Oh no, I didn't even I never thought about that.

1116
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: No Avage Nation.

1117
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Michael, I'm just saying, no interesting. I

1118
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: just I don't know how I got lemonation. It just

1119
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: sort of came out of lemonation at first. And then

1120
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 1: I was saying, how am I going to do it?

1121
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: Is it going to be two ends or one? Is

1122
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: it l E m O N and then N A

1123
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: T I O N? Or is it l E M

1124
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: O N A T I O in So anyways, I digress,

1125
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: but it has been Look, when I left uh ceeing

1126
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: and I didn't know if anybody would care if i'd

1127
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: ever be back on a major platform.

1128
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 3: Or have the voice that I had before.

1129
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: And but then the moment I let that go.

1130
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 2: H yeah, it just goes right.

1131
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm more popular now than when I

1132
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: was on CNN. I get recognized more on the streets

1133
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: now than when I was in CNN. People show up

1134
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: to my events more now. In my speaking engagements more

1135
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: than when I was on CNN. It's an it's a

1136
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: it's a really odd thing that's happened, and rewarding.

1137
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: And rewarding and and so just you know, as you

1138
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 2: now start you know, new media, old media, legacy media.

1139
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 2: However you want to call it fake news, you know

1140
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 2: it's others. Majority of the may frame it. Uh, this

1141
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: notion of independent. You know, you're being your own boss.

1142
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 2: You can, you know, your your own routines, your own

1143
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: opportunities to continue to iterate in terms of your building

1144
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 2: this network in this platform. I mean, what do you

1145
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 2: make just jumping right into the sort of anxiety that

1146
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 2: I imagine must be just you know universal over at CNN

1147
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 2: today with the changes that are about to take shape

1148
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: when this merger uh is advanced. What you know, what

1149
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: what do you think is going to become of your

1150
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: old on stopping grounds?

1151
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: That is a very good question. Uh.

1152
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: I am afraid for them, you know, I know this

1153
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: is going to sound weird and condescending, but in a

1154
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: way I feel bad for them because they're in a

1155
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: tough position. When I saw it, I laughed when I

1156
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: saw that they were going to buy it, and I laughed,

1157
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: but I didn't mean it to.

1158
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 3: Like I'm laughing at them.

1159
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: I laughed because I was thinking what a blessing in

1160
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: disguise this was for me. And then at the same time,

1161
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: I felt like, man, the best journalists in the world

1162
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: aren't going to be able to be their best because

1163
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: someone is going to try to influence a news network

1164
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: politically with ideology, and that should never happen to CNN,

1165
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: And so I know that, Uh, there's a lot of

1166
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: freaking out going on at CNN right now, people not

1167
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: knowing what's going to happen.

1168
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 3: I do know as well.

1169
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean, when neither of us is stupid and nobody

1170
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: watching this is stupid, they are going to be layoffs.

1171
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: A lot of journalists are going to lose their jobs,

1172
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: are going to end up having to do, you know,

1173
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: something very similar to what I'm doing, and they are

1174
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: in for a very rude awakening about just how easy

1175
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: or how hard this is to make happen. But mostly

1176
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: I just felt bad for for journalism and for freedom

1177
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: of the press after that happened, because the consolidation of

1178
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: media right now is troubling, but the consolidation of conservative

1179
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: media is even more troubling than that. If you look

1180
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: at you know, the Ellison's out control, you know some

1181
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: of TikTok and the algorithm they have. CBS, they're soon

1182
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: going to have CNN, Rupert Murdoch has Fox News. The

1183
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: the folks that the other networks are a little bit

1184
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: newtered because they're afraid of Donald Trump. You know, Donald

1185
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: Trump hassued ABC. He often talks crap about you know, NBC,

1186
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: and he insults reporters and all those things. So I

1187
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: can't imagine, well, I can't imagine the consternation that's happening.

1188
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: And I'm lucky not to be a part of it,

1189
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: but I feel bad that it's happening to them.

1190
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: When you did you anticipate I mean a scenario honestly,

1191
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: you know you're looking back in your career. Did it

1192
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 2: ever even enter your mind the prospects that you'd be

1193
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: arrested for doing your job? Honestly? I mean like no,

1194
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: I mean passing. You just were like, you know, there's

1195
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: a scenario. You know, you made a joke, you know,

1196
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: a late night dinner or something. You know, did you

1197
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 2: ever really believe that possible?

1198
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 3: No, I didn't think it would be possible.

1199
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: I thought the only time that anything like that was

1200
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: possible is if you are which is a very similar

1201
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: scenario to what happened. But you know, if you're at

1202
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: a protest right and the powers that be your authorities

1203
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: or police or whatever it is, are trying to push

1204
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: people back and you get caught up in a scrum

1205
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: or something, you know, I thought it was possible that

1206
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: could happen. I've seen my colleagues get arrested on television.

1207
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: It almost happened to me in Ferguson if it had

1208
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: not been for another officer. I was on with Wolf

1209
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: Blitzer and they were moving us back and I was

1210
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: trying to move and the cop was going to push me,

1211
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: and he tried to grab me, and I.

1212
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: Forget that It's been a while ago, twenty fourteen or so, and.

1213
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: So, you know, I thought that that sort of thing

1214
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: that possibly could happen. But then I had a giant

1215
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: network behind me, and it would just be like, Okay,

1216
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: we'll take care of this, you'll be out by the

1217
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: time your show whatever.

1218
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.

1219
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: But this is a whole different sort of thing that's

1220
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: happened now. And so the answer to your question is

1221
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: in an emphatic no, never, never.

1222
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: When you saw what happened the Washington Post, the FBI

1223
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: going in, I mean, was that what was your first

1224
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: reaction then that.

1225
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: The attack on institutions that we need in this country

1226
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: in order for this democracy to work, in order for

1227
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: this republic to work, that those institutions, the attacks on

1228
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: them are chipping, are starting to diminish those institutions. I

1229
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: thought that the very people who love to tout the

1230
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: Constitution all the time doesn't believe in the Constitution, nor

1231
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: the Bill of Rights, nor the First Amendment. The free

1232
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: speech absolutists somehow don't believe in free speech absolutism, and

1233
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: especially as it relates to the press. It's only if

1234
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: people are saying favorable things about you. I mean, look

1235
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: at what Pete Heseth said about you. Know, this is

1236
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: how the headlines should be written. And I can't wait

1237
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: for David Ellison to take over CNN, which was yep,

1238
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: then any other time that would have been outraged, a

1239
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: non stop story headlines, right, And then for Donald Trump

1240
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: to tweet out look at how I changed the media

1241
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: and all the people he got fired and he sued

1242
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: and all It's like it's crazy times. And then arresting reporters.

1243
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, wait, give me your question again.

1244
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 2: What was that?

1245
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: Did I answer your question?

1246
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,959
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I mean it just you know, the seed

1247
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: that was planet as it relates to the FBI raid

1248
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 2: at the Washington Post. But this notion, you know.

1249
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: With miss Nathanson, the reporter, I mean, look, she's still

1250
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: fighting for her phone. I still don't have a phone

1251
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: at this point, but she still I don't have my phone.

1252
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: They took my phone, they still have it. I mean,

1253
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: that's that's public knowledge, and that came out in the

1254
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: in the court proceedings, the first one, my first court appearance,

1255
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: and they took her phone as well, and her attorneys

1256
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: are fighting for that. But you know, there's there's reporters

1257
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: have privilege, you know, for it's like an attorney, and

1258
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: so you have to be very careful about those things.

1259
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 3: And we cannot lose those things otherwise.

1260
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: We are going to lose the We're going to lose

1261
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: the First Amendment. We're going to lose the freedom of

1262
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: the press because part of that is having sources and

1263
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: being able to be trusted by those sources that you're

1264
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: not going to give any information away that they give you.

1265
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 3: People, reporters go.

1266
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: To jail over they have over refusing to give up

1267
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: a source, and then usually it ends up working out

1268
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,439
Speaker 1: for them saying they don't have to and they get out.

1269
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: But still, so we cannot lose those norms and those

1270
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: traditions because otherwise we're no better than a country that

1271
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: we're at war with right now.

1272
01:03:58,320 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 3: And we're saying, you know.

1273
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: That Iran shoots protesters, well so do we, And you

1274
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: know we're over there because Iran, you know, uh, jail's

1275
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 1: reporters or you know, doesn't have free speech, and that

1276
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: makes us know better than them. If we are acting

1277
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: and doing the very same things that they're doing, then

1278
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: what sort of moral authority do we have to be

1279
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,959
Speaker 1: able to be there and you know, in a war

1280
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: and quite frankly killing people.

1281
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: You you arrested in Los Angeles, you're covering the Grammys.

1282
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: Why do you think they targeted you?

1283
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: Why you I think they thought that they I was

1284
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: gonna make a joke so that I was a fashion

1285
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: crime that they sent the fashion polices the Grammys.

1286
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 3: I'm joking, it's a red carpet joke.

1287
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: Why do you think I think they targeted me? I

1288
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: can't You'll have to ask them that. But my my

1289
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: opinion is that they targeted me because they have been

1290
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: after me for a long time. I mean, Donald Trump

1291
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: has been tweeting about me and talking about me for

1292
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: quite some time.

1293
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 3: And I you know, from from.

1294
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: One day to the other, I would rather not think

1295
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump. And when I was at CNN, I said,

1296
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: I asked him, do I have to cover Donald Trump

1297
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: every night?

1298
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 3: Because I'm tired of talking about him.

1299
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in anything that he says or does

1300
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,959
Speaker 1: because none of it it makes sense. So I think

1301
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: it's because number one, you know, I worked for CNN,

1302
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: and I was very outspoken about how I felt about

1303
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: him and the administration and what this MAGA movement meant

1304
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: and what they were doing and how they were trampling

1305
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: on our constitution.

1306
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: And also, you know, I'm black.

1307
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: If you look at all the people most of the

1308
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: indictments of the people who have been indicted in a

1309
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: lot of them are brown, a lot of them are.

1310
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: Looked like me. And I think he's a racist.

1311
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: And I think that also, quite frankly, part of it

1312
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: is that I was the biggest name, you know, in

1313
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: that whole sort of church arrest thing, and perhaps if

1314
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: I was not there, maybe none of this would be

1315
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: happening to the other people.

1316
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 3: I felt a little guilt about that. So that's it. Yeah, yeah,

1317
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 3: So why?

1318
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's why because he's going the same

1319
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,919
Speaker 1: reason that he's going after you know, Tiss James or

1320
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: Lisa Cook or James Comy or any of I mean,

1321
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: because he can, and because he doesn't like that. He

1322
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: doesn't like it when people don't agree with him, when

1323
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: you're not part of his cult.

1324
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 2: Were you done? Were you humbled grateful by the outrage

1325
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 2: that came out of your arrest or did you feel

1326
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 2: like folks, even in your profession, were a little bit timid?

1327
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 2: Didn't you know some you know talking in the aggregate.

1328
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 2: Did you feel was sufficient the level of outrage that

1329
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 2: came from that arrest or are people a little too

1330
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: complicit this moment?

1331
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 3: Well, it's a combination.

1332
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,479
Speaker 1: I was very humbled by the support that I got

1333
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: and and uh surprised, especially in the beginning. But because

1334
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: there's so much going on in the world as it

1335
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: relates to the Trump administration, pardon me. I think people

1336
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: are a bit worn, worn down, and I think that

1337
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: journalists now in at many organizations are nervous and worried

1338
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: about keeping their jobs, especially now that you know, broadcasting

1339
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: cable are diminishing and there aren't really any jobs many

1340
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: jobs left, if any, and people are getting laid off.

1341
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: I think they're worried about so they don't want to

1342
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: speak up and they don't want to say anything. So,

1343
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 1: but I can't believe that this story is not on,

1344
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,959
Speaker 1: you know, not one of the major headlines almost every

1345
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: single day, because you know, they arrested me, they arrested

1346
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: the other reporter. Then Pete Hexas says, I can't wait

1347
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: for someone to take over, and then Donald Trump says

1348
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: this thing, and then they're you know, the the boy.

1349
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: How about Brendan Carr?

1350
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:24,839
Speaker 3: How about Brendan Carr.

1351
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 2: They're not going to renew broadcasting license unless you do

1352
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: the our war bidding quote unquote whatever the propagandas want to. Yeah,

1353
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean that that's a hell of a statement. Huh. Yes.

1354
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: And we're all in the same fight, and we should

1355
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: all be on the same team, and this should be

1356
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: They the folks, the journalists, the news organizations, they have

1357
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: the ability to to prioritize this, and right now they're not.

1358
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: They just say you know, they'll do a couple of

1359
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: segments on it and then they forget about it. But

1360
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: this has repercussions for almost everything we do. Without the

1361
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: First Amendment, governor all of the other amendments, nothing else,

1362
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: nothing else stands. And so this affects journalists, It affects

1363
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: hosts on television shows, late night hosts. Look at what

1364
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: happened to Jimmy Kimmel, look at what's happening with Stephen Colbert.

1365
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 3: All of it. This affects every the publishing industry, books.

1366
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: This is long reaching ramifications, and I think people need

1367
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: to start really thinking about it, especially the news organizations

1368
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: who are really, in a way hastening their own demise

1369
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: by bending the need to this administration. Because if they

1370
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: stood up to him, more people would watch. Their ratings

1371
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: would be better because they would say, well, yeah, damn it,

1372
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: they are standing up to him. But now they are

1373
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 1: being bullied by Donald Trump, who's threatening to take them

1374
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: off the air and threatening to you know, snatch their licenses.

1375
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: And then the people at home are going, I'm not

1376
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: going to watch you. So like, wake up people, But

1377
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: it's hard when you have people who own the networks

1378
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: who believe in the same ideology. And Donald Trump is there,

1379
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, their god king, So it's you know, what

1380
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: do you do?

1381
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to sell those kneepads you see behind me,

1382
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 2: the signature series Trump kneepads by the way, as you know,

1383
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 2: the old ones sold out, just like a lot of

1384
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 2: the folks you just mentioned and sold out. But these

1385
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: these just came in fresh batch, so they're available in pairs.

1386
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 3: You can sell them. You can sell them to some

1387
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 3: and in book.

1388
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: Well you should sell them to some of the parent

1389
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: companies of the news organization because they might not date

1390
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: it because they need them.

1391
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 2: Oh amen, Look, I could spend hours with you, non

1392
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 2: I just think I hope it's not. And everybody what

1393
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 2: what we're up against. I mean this is code. Read

1394
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,719
Speaker 2: what you've gone through. And I appreciate your levity around

1395
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: all this and how you've been able to personally deal

1396
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 2: with this because you're in your in litigation, you've got lawyer.

1397
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 2: I mean, this thing, this is a financial toll. This

1398
01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 2: is serious. He's sent me a message. It wasn't just

1399
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 2: after you. It was sending a message to everybody else.

1400
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 2: It's time for all of you to shut up and

1401
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: self censor, and we cannot afford that we'll lose this

1402
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 2: country as you suggest, we'll lose our republic. We will,

1403
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 2: we will lose it in real time. This is exactly

1404
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 2: what Putin did, is what Orbon did Aeronwan. This is real,

1405
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 2: it's happening. It's happening to have a faster clip than

1406
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 2: on those other countries, and it could happen here in

1407
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 2: the United States unless we call it out. And so

1408
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 2: the fact that you're not giving up and you're continue

1409
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 2: to punch back man is an inspiration. I just personally

1410
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 2: want to thank you of after my kids also on

1411
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 2: behalf of you know, you know why the damn Founding

1412
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: fathers lived and died and we're selling ready it's two

1413
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 2: hund and fiftieth anniversary of at least that declaration, and

1414
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: you know this is what it was all about. This

1415
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 2: is what they lived and died for. And so it's

1416
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 2: so important that we call this out and you continue

1417
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 2: to do that on an hourly basis, not just a

1418
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 2: daily basis.

1419
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 3: Thank you. May I, as a journalist ask you a

1420
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 3: question that I really want to.

1421
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's not a cur out since it's

1422
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,839
Speaker 2: my podcast, it's not a curb Boston.

1423
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 1: So, having said what you said, and having heard Donald

1424
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 1: Trump talk about nationalizing the elections and having Republicans take

1425
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 1: over the election, are you confident that we'll have a

1426
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: free and fair election in twenty twenty six for the midterms.

1427
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 2: That's an open ended question. One thing I'm absolutely confident of.

1428
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 2: We won't will not have a fair, free election in

1429
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight unless we take back the House of

1430
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 2: Representatives in twenty twenty six. This guy's not screwing around. Look,

1431
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 2: you saw what happened in LA. He sent out bor

1432
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 2: tac teams the day of the election in Los Angeles

1433
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 2: on election day on Prop fifty in order to chill

1434
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: free expression, sent out a tweet that morning on True

1435
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 2: Social saying the election was rased, sent out hiss to

1436
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,759
Speaker 2: Parliament of Justice monitors, and then ultimately try to litigate

1437
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,799
Speaker 2: and get to the Supreme Court to say the election

1438
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 2: was fraudulently decided. He's not screwing around. You saw what

1439
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 2: happened in Fulton County, and now he's taking over that

1440
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 2: board in Fulton County that's still active and it's happening.

1441
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 2: He talked about the nationalization of the election, then he said, no,

1442
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 2: just fifteen Blue states Save Act. It's next level what

1443
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 2: the Save Act is all about. That's about deciding who

1444
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 2: can vote. It's not about voter IDs trying to purge

1445
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 2: the voting roles, and we are in litigation on that here.

1446
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 2: He's been doing that in other states. This guy is

1447
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 2: not screwing around. So our state of mind has to

1448
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: be I think very mindful that we are hardly out

1449
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 2: of the woods. Even if we're successful in neutralizing the

1450
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 2: election rigging that he tried to do with the midterm redistricting,

1451
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 2: we are getting. These fights are happening, These battles, these

1452
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 2: fronts are continuing to expand all across the United States.

1453
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,799
Speaker 2: And the media cannot be complicit in that respect. Corporate

1454
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 2: leaders can't be complicit in that respect. Lawyers can't be

1455
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 2: complicit in law firms anymore. Universities need to call it

1456
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: back to these days forgive me, you're triggering me, but

1457
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 2: to why I have these knee pads, and we can't

1458
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 2: be composed of what the hell happened to you? You

1459
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 2: got arrested, Don This is madness, man, that's insane. That

1460
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 2: happened in the United States America. They detained you FBI

1461
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 2: in the morning, handcuffed you. It's sick. This is a cancer,

1462
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: and we got to call it out. So anyway, yeah,

1463
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:23,759
Speaker 2: I worry about it. And that's why we're fighting. We're litigation.

1464
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 2: We're winning more than we're losing in court. But it's

1465
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 2: about the court of public opinion. It's about waking people up.

1466
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 2: It's about people continuing to show up for each other

1467
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 2: and for this country and for you and others that

1468
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: you know are these targets. And yeah, I'll end on this.

1469
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned five or six people. I'm there.

1470
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe the phone call I got from my friend,

1471
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 2: the governor of Minnesota, and you know, Walls calls and

1472
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 2: he says, look, Pally goes need a little bit of help.

1473
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 2: I said, whatever, you need to happy to be there

1474
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: on this, but he goes, no, no, I need some

1475
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: help me with my litigation fund because he's trying to

1476
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 2: criminally prosecute me and I have to raise personal money.

1477
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 2: He is that, don't I know happening you intimately?

1478
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I know.

1479
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 1: I mean, look, fighting, getting a good lawyer costs money.

1480
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: Fighting the Department of Justice costs a lot of money

1481
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: because the government never runs out of money.

1482
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: Nope.

1483
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: Right, they don't have to worry about the billable hours.

1484
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: And here's the sad thing. The billable hours from whatever

1485
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: law firm whatever. Guess who's paying for that the taxpayers.

1486
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: We are I'm paying for my own prosecution. So you know,

1487
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 1: it's it's a bizarre place to be in. And so

1488
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: you're right about that. I just thank you for answering

1489
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: that question because I'm not so sure. I saw, you know,

1490
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,759
Speaker 1: the honorable Nancy Pelosi and she she said that she's confident.

1491
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 1: I spoke with Hakem Jeffries, and you know, this was

1492
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: before all the talk about the well, actually Nancy Pelosi was,

1493
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,799
Speaker 1: but this is and after was Hakeing Jefferys. He was confident.

1494
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: But I just I think that they will try anything,

1495
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 1: anything anything. I would not put anything past this administration.

1496
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm nervous about it.

1497
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,600
Speaker 2: You better be nervous, and you should be nervous. And

1498
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: I'm nervous about it as well. But it's like, I mean,

1499
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:17,520
Speaker 2: you were quoting a lot of scripture earlier in this conversation.

1500
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 2: I'll say my piece, it's faith and works as we pray.

1501
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: We got to move our feet right, So I'm not

1502
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 2: it's not wein hold in hands having a candlelight visual.

1503
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 2: We got to get out there and we got to

1504
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 2: expose all this. We got to make people conscious that

1505
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,759
Speaker 2: it's not one thing, it's all of these things stacked together.

1506
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,600
Speaker 2: And again, no shame. It's the rule of down, not

1507
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 2: the rule of law. And we have no coequal branch

1508
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 2: of government. These guys are supine and they're complicit. And

1509
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 2: so yeah, you're right, all those things stacked against us

1510
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 2: and AI and missing disinformation, all these relationships with overseas,

1511
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 2: you know, with antagonistic governments that can also be you know,

1512
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,719
Speaker 2: I just don't trust any of these guys. And and

1513
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 2: the great grift, the great corruption story, and you know

1514
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 2: how everybody's sort of you know, anyway we can unpack

1515
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 2: all that. That's a whole nother damn podcast.

1516
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: When you come on my show, you got to tell

1517
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 1: your team, tell your team that you should come on.

1518
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 3: I think they're afraid of me. I'm like, come on.

1519
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 2: Well after that, Elon Musk interviewed, Jesus, no one's ever coming,

1520
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 2: Like gosh.

1521
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 3: Again, Nah, I don't do I'm not gonna do.

1522
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 2: Joe GiB Jesus, just don't be sensitive about that. Uh,

1523
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 2: coming on your show and uh. And by the way,

1524
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming on This is Gavin Newsom Show,

1525
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you. And uh. And I appreciate everything

1526
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 2: you're doing and you're good fight and I'm sorry you

1527
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 2: have to deal with this stuff on such a personal

1528
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: professional level with this administration. That ain't right.

1529
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, President, I mean governor.

1530
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. That's what the good. The President himself

1531
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 2: called me president yesterday. The hell is that?

1532
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:00,640
Speaker 3: I know.

1533
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, I'm just I'm not going to ask

1534
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 1: you the question. I'll wait till you're on my show

1535
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: to ask you all those other questions. But I appreciate

1536
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: you having me on. Thank you, and say hello to

1537
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:12,559
Speaker 1: the first lady.

1538
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 2: Please, I appreciate that. Take care, thanks, thank you, thank you,