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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Battleground Podcast. Today. I have an

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Speaker 1: amazing guest. I've been excited to talk to him for

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Speaker 1: a while now. His name is Shane Osborne. Shane is

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Speaker 1: a former Naval eighty aviator who extended his tour after

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven to continue flying combat mission. Shane was

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Speaker 1: assigned to the Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron one. The world

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Speaker 1: watchers and Shane kind of had an interesting experience in

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Speaker 1: the air when he collided with a Chinese aircraft. Somehow

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Speaker 1: he managed to safely land the plane, but he, along

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Speaker 1: with twenty three of his people who were on that plane,

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Speaker 1: were surrounded by the Chinese military for almost a month.

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Speaker 2: Shane.

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Speaker 1: Oh, now you're the CEO of r WH Energy, which

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Speaker 1: is a company that is just like kicking ass and

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Speaker 1: taking names, and it's Shane. It's an honor to have

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Speaker 1: you here. Thank you for giving us some of your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Sean appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: So you got to take me back to the very

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Speaker 1: beginning and tell me about how you decided to serve

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Speaker 1: your country. I know that flying is something that is

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Speaker 1: that you've wanted to do since you were young.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my mom was I was raised by a

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Speaker 2: single mom. She was director nurses at the Nebraska Veterans Home.

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Speaker 2: So I after school, weekends, holidays, I hung out with

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Speaker 2: vets all the time here in World War two, Korea

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Speaker 2: War stories Vietnam obviously, and so I always wanted to serve.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't go through life wondering what I was

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Speaker 2: going to do. I knew it by the time I

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Speaker 2: was in the second grade. I was writing the papers

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Speaker 2: about wanting to fly for you the Air Force of

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Speaker 2: the Namian So I was lucky enough. And I graduated

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Speaker 2: in high school in ninety two, and that was the downturn,

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Speaker 2: right the Cold War ended and there wasn't a lot

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Speaker 2: of plots, of lot of things. So I was lucky

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Speaker 2: because we were, you know, we didn't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of money. And I was able to get an RFPC

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Speaker 2: scholarship to the University of Nebraska, and so that's that's

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Speaker 2: how it all started. And graduated in ninety six. Was

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Speaker 2: there when the Huskers actually played good football and I

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Speaker 2: hope they will be again soon. And then headed off

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Speaker 2: to flight school in Pensacola and was able to live

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Speaker 2: my dream.

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Speaker 1: So I was wondering, if you went to the Naval Academy,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you know when you prep for these interviews,

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Speaker 1: like I want to know about you, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want to know too much because I want to learn

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Speaker 1: during the interview process. And I just thought to myself,

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Speaker 1: like I wonder if he's a Naval Academy guy, because

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you this, like.

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Speaker 2: No, I tried, you did what?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Tell me? I was nominated the Senator accident at the time,

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Speaker 2: nominated me to West Point and I wanted to fly.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even apply to West Point. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened with their paperwork, but to nominated me to

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Speaker 2: the wrong academy. So heartbroken and wish I could have

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Speaker 2: gone on APPLIS, but it all worked out.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think I could have handled I don't

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Speaker 1: think I could have handled West I mean I was

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Speaker 1: an ROTC guy as well. I think that ROTC teaches

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Speaker 1: you some like very important life lessons about being a

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Speaker 1: college student and like getting to where you need to

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Speaker 1: be on time and not having somebody like putting a

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Speaker 1: finger in your chest telling you to do it, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I think that there's value in that. But I

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Speaker 1: also like when when Outlaw Platune came out. It's like

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Speaker 1: required reading at west Point and they've got a class

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Speaker 1: on it. So I'll go and meet with those cadets

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Speaker 1: and I see the life that they live. Man, And

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Speaker 1: I say this often, I don't think I could do it, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that if I entered the military through

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Speaker 1: an academy, I don't know if I could have made it.

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Speaker 1: I just don't.

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Speaker 2: It was they didn't. They didn't get the college life

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Speaker 2: we did. We'll just leave it back to city. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's definitely a dedication. And I remember because all my

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Speaker 2: best friends in the Navy were academy guys. We all

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Speaker 2: got down to Pensacola to flight school and they went nuts, right.

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Speaker 2: They were exactly for prison. They were having a good time.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, so we had at

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Speaker 1: least in the Army and in the infantry, because I

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Speaker 1: was in the infantry. So we would have two kind

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Speaker 1: and two kinds of West Point officers. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: like I'm not judging at all, Like I love what

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Speaker 1: I've got tons of friends that are west Point guys,

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Speaker 1: but like, well now in west Point women as well.

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Speaker 1: But we had people that would graduate that would come

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Speaker 1: out that were super smoked, you know, because they had

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Speaker 1: just done four years of like really tough stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: four years of basic training essentially, and then they'd come

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Speaker 1: into a unit and already already emotionally, mentally, physically exhausted.

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Speaker 1: Then he had the other guys that were just super

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Speaker 1: gung ho, and and when they got to their unit,

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Speaker 1: I do feel like there was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: like they go to the Infantry Officer Basic course to

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Speaker 1: go to their schools, I do feel like there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like release there, like like they're pretty

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Speaker 1: like the just had escaped prisoners or something. It's funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you that's so. So you get to Pensacola and

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Speaker 1: you're flying, so like tell me, like, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: Navy guy, so I don't know anything about the rigors

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Speaker 1: of your training. Like tell me, tell me about what

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Speaker 1: flight school was like at Pensacola. And obviously your Navy

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Speaker 1: So you Navy flies rotary wing and fixed wing, So

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Speaker 1: how did you get selected for fixed wing?

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Speaker 2: So so it's it's all it's all about, really the

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Speaker 2: needs of the Navy is what it is. So the

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Speaker 2: week you graduate, whatever plots they have, that's what's there.

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Speaker 2: But the interesting thing about me is I was I

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Speaker 2: was actually I went from Pensacola to Corpus Christie, Texas

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Speaker 2: and trained there, and I had been accelerated. They were

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Speaker 2: trying to meet the numbers for the year, so they

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Speaker 2: were flying me twice a day, which was rare, and

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Speaker 2: I got accelerated. But I graduated number one of my class,

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Speaker 2: and the history of the Navy is if you graduate

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Speaker 2: number one, you get your toys. And I wanted to

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Speaker 2: fly fighter jets, right. I was a top gun kid,

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Speaker 2: and you know me growing up. The first version you

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Speaker 2: know that was it had I had the whole roll

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Speaker 2: down the glasses everything. That's all I'd ever wanted to

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Speaker 2: do since I was five six years old. And they

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Speaker 2: had a new platform for props that it was a

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Speaker 2: King air that they just introduced. They hadn't put a

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Speaker 2: student through this airplane yet, and so they took four

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Speaker 2: of us as a test to put us through this class.

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Speaker 2: So they took four of us that were all tops

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Speaker 2: of our classes, just so it would make sure it

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Speaker 2: would go well. And so I was the first guy,

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Speaker 2: at least that I know of, in the history at

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Speaker 2: least the last you know, forty years that graduated number

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Speaker 2: one in his class and didn't get his top choice.

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Speaker 2: So at first I was pretty bummed, but we all know,

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Speaker 2: you know, you get set backs in life, and it

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Speaker 2: ended up working out for the best. So I went

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Speaker 2: through the PROP training, went through Jacksonville, and when I

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Speaker 2: was in Corpus, after I had selected PROPS, I was

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Speaker 2: out with a couple of instructors who were awesome guys,

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Speaker 2: kind of odd, and they kind of pulled me aside.

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Speaker 2: So there's only two of these squadrons of the world.

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Speaker 2: Now there's just one. And they were they were like, hey,

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Speaker 2: have you ever thought of going VQ which is electronic warfare,

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Speaker 2: it's reconnaissance, and and I'm like I hadn't really thought

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Speaker 2: about it, and they're like, well, we'd like you to

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Speaker 2: consider it. So this is a you know, these two

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Speaker 2: squadrons pretty much hand select who's going to come in

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Speaker 2: right and be part of the brotherhood so to speak, sisterhood,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. But and so I

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Speaker 2: got interested in it. But I speak Spanish. So there's

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Speaker 2: one squadron wouldby island washing in VQ one, and then

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Speaker 2: there's another VQ two. It's it's now in what would be.

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Speaker 2: But it's in Rhoda, Spain, like literally on the beach.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, I'm going VQ two. I want

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Speaker 2: VQ two. Guess what they sent me to VQ one.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, he got me a kidding me. I speak Sanish.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to meet my wife over there. This is

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Speaker 2: going to be great, you know they do. All their

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Speaker 2: tours are to like suit of bate Crete and Europe.

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Speaker 2: And you know, so Wby Island on the West coast

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Speaker 2: goes to Massawa, Japan, which is the northern tip the

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Speaker 2: Frozen hundred of Japan, Okayanawa, Bahrain. You know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's you know, you're covering the important areas

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Speaker 2: of the world. Don't get me wrong. But as far

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Speaker 2: as places to deployed to, they're they're not not near

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Speaker 2: as uh enticing as Souda Bay and you know, Germany

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Speaker 2: and things like that. But it works out, like I said,

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Speaker 2: once again, it works out.

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Speaker 1: So the Navy, the Navy took a Spanish speaking naval

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Speaker 1: officer and instead of sending that person to Spain, they

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Speaker 1: sent him to Japan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we were basically beyond as north of Seattle,

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Speaker 2: and it's a fishing town and it is one of

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful places on earth if you're married.

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Speaker 1: I was not.

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Speaker 2: You've got to drive an hour half to see to

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Speaker 2: even see a female like you got to go to

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Speaker 2: Seattle or Vancouver, which we went to Vancouver a lot,

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Speaker 2: but because this was just a little, small fishing town

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Speaker 2: and they didn't particularly like this there that much. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, the local fishermen didn't care for us. So

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Speaker 2: it was it was interesting, it was beautiful, but not

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Speaker 2: a place for a young signal guy to be.

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Speaker 1: Today, I want to talk about something that's been on

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Speaker 1: the minds of many Americans lately, energy independence. With rising

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Speaker 1: energy prices and geopolitical tensions, it's more important than ever

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Speaker 1: for our country to be self sufficient when it comes

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Speaker 1: to our energy needs. And that's where Deep Well Services

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Speaker 1: comes in. They're a company that's not only dedicated to

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Speaker 1: delivering top not services to the oil and gas industry,

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Speaker 1: but they're also committed to the goal of American energy independence.

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Speaker 1: With their cutting edge technology and expert team of professionals,

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Speaker 1: they're helping to unlock new sources of domestic energy and

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Speaker 1: reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

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Speaker 2: But that's not all.

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Speaker 1: Deep Well Services is also a great American company that's

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Speaker 1: hiring like crazy right now, and they're not just looking

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Speaker 1: for anyone, making out talented and hardworking individuals who want

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Speaker 1: to join their team and make a difference. And with

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Speaker 1: competitive salaries and benefits, it's a great opportunity to not

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Speaker 1: only work for a patriotic company, but also build a

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Speaker 1: rewarding career in the energy sector. So if you're looking

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Speaker 1: for a job with purpose and meaning, or if you're

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Speaker 1: simply passionate about American energy independence, then you should definitely

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Speaker 1: check out deep Well Services. Visit their website at Deepwellservices

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Speaker 1: dot com to learn more about their company and career opportunities.

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Speaker 1: So how did you not? So you didn't get your

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Speaker 1: first choice out of flight school And forgive me if

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Speaker 1: the terminology is incorrect, but you didn't get your first

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Speaker 1: after you left flight school because you were selected for

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Speaker 1: an experimental program or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they had a new airframe, a new airplane

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Speaker 2: that they were going to start training and they didn't

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Speaker 2: even have sen later sport. It's just a King Air

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Speaker 2: two hundred. But they wanted to make sure that you know,

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Speaker 2: it was successful, right, and it you know it all

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Speaker 2: worked out. I mean, I was promised my choice of

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Speaker 2: assignment for taking this on, and that didn't that got

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Speaker 2: changed because the needs of the Navy are more than

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Speaker 2: the needs of Kane Osborne. Right, it just learned in

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Speaker 2: the time you're upsetn Now I look back on I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's stuff in the military, and you know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about. It's not the good days that built you,

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Speaker 2: it's the bad ones. Right, It's not getting what you want,

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Speaker 2: getting what the Navy needs and just taking it and

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Speaker 2: understanding that you know, there is a cause greater than

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Speaker 2: your own personal want of wanting to be on the

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Speaker 2: beach and rode to Spain as opposed to with bey

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Speaker 2: on on Washington. And that's just you know, the wonderful

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Speaker 2: life lessons that you just I don't think you can

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Speaker 2: get outside of the military. Maybe there's other places you

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Speaker 2: can learn some of this stuff, but you know, going

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Speaker 2: with a crew to pulling halfway around the world and

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Speaker 2: having that responsibility and taking that on, that's just something

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get in the civil world.

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Speaker 1: I completely agreed that age, No, I completely agree with you.

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Speaker 1: How old were you during all this?

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Speaker 2: So I literally I graduated college when I was twenty one,

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Speaker 2: and I graduated flight school in literally under two years,

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Speaker 2: which is very rare. And so by the time I

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Speaker 2: was a mission commander, I was the youngest mission commander

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Speaker 2: in our squadrons seventy eighty. Well it's been gosh, eighty

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Speaker 2: ninety years now, kind I'm getting old, but history. So

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Speaker 2: I was like a brand new O three. I just

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Speaker 2: pinned it on and I was a mission commander in

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Speaker 2: charge of that airplane when my incident happened in China.

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Speaker 2: I'd only been flying as an aircraft commander for like

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Speaker 2: ninety hours when the mid air happened. So I was

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Speaker 2: I was pretty young and pretty green.

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Speaker 1: Well that's crazy because you know, you you talk about

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Speaker 1: like the needs of the Navy, and you know at

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Speaker 1: that time, I mean because you you extended your tour

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Speaker 1: after nine to eleven, and this was just when I

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Speaker 1: mean nine to eleven was was that moment that I

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Speaker 1: decided to join. So that's what drove me into service.

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Speaker 1: I don't come from a long line of like military

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Speaker 1: generals or something. I was just a kid that saw

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Speaker 1: our country attacked and wanted to get in the fight.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, did the operational tempo like, because there, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we had a very different military prior to

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Speaker 1: September eleventh, and then nine to eleven happens. Not only

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Speaker 1: does it not only does it change our military and

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Speaker 1: the operational tempo, but it also changed our country forever.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, did you notice a big change in

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Speaker 1: the way it's more sense of urgency or what? Did

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Speaker 1: you notice a change before and after nine to eleven?

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Speaker 2: A little bit? But the unique thing about my squadron

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Speaker 2: VQ one and the VQ two is there was only

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Speaker 2: two of them and we had to cover. We were

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Speaker 2: collecting intelligence and peace time and war time, right, so

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Speaker 2: we do combat missions, but also you got you know,

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Speaker 2: we had patches. It's that were a ripoff of Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 2: It said in God we trust all others we monitor,

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Speaker 2: And so we really had an op tempo where we

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Speaker 2: were deployed, not going out six months and then coming

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Speaker 2: back for a year, year and a half and going

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Speaker 2: you know, we deployed. We've been deployed three hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty five days a year and at least two or

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Speaker 2: three locations around the world my squadron for the last

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Speaker 2: since World War Two. So our op tempo, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to say it didn't step up a little. It

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Speaker 2: just changed where we were at more because we used

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Speaker 2: to kind of move around. We started completely we'll get

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Speaker 2: into this player, but it started, you know, after nine

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Speaker 2: to eleven, started ignoring the far east of China, which

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous. But the fact is we were always deployed,

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Speaker 2: and that was the cool thing about our squadron. I

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Speaker 2: went out as a twenty six year old young O

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Speaker 2: three lieutenant and I was it like I would deploy

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Speaker 2: with the crew and some maintenance. I was in charge

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Speaker 2: of everything. I had no adult supermission to speak of.

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Speaker 2: There was no commanders there. They were back in Wouldby Island,

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Speaker 2: you know, monitoring things. So we'd have a site, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe a crew in Massile, maybe a crew in Kadena,

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Speaker 2: and maybe in a crew in Bahrain, and so I

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Speaker 2: was in charge of that crew. I was you know,

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Speaker 2: you're setting up housing, you're making sure, you know, everything's

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Speaker 2: taken care of the maintenance of the airplane. So it

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Speaker 2: was a really huge responsibility that was pretty cool and unique.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing the level of responsibility that the United States

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Speaker 1: military gives to twenty somethings. It's it's and it's it's

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Speaker 1: I hear story after story of people like like you, Shane,

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Speaker 1: who have like like who've just given enormous responsibilities and

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Speaker 1: like it's it's so funny. Like as a young platoon leader,

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Speaker 1: So I in Afghanistan. I was twenty eight three, twenty

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Speaker 1: four years old. It was a platoon leader in charge

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Speaker 1: of forty men. Come back and we're six leading those

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Speaker 1: guys through combat, right, like those guys, those men, because

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Speaker 1: back then in the infantry, it's just men, but like

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Speaker 1: they were.

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Speaker 2: They were.

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Speaker 1: It's basically like I was the CEO of a company

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Speaker 1: of forty Basically you sign for everything you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's just you're an executive essentially. And then I come

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Speaker 1: back after three years of an experience like that, I'm

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Speaker 1: promoted to executive officer of an infantry company, which is

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty people. And basically the job description

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Speaker 1: of an executive officer, the second of the chain of

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Speaker 1: command of the company commander is you just basically do

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Speaker 1: everything that the company commander doesn't want to do, which

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Speaker 1: is basically everything that's not leading people in the field.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not if you're not deployed, you're doing

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Speaker 1: basically everything that includes like beans, bullets, logistics. But again,

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Speaker 1: I was twenty seven, and then I took an interim

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Speaker 1: company command at twenty eight, and then a battalion rear

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Speaker 1: detachment command in charge of a battalion at twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: So it's like where and then you come back to

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Speaker 1: the civilian world, Shane, and I have to admit this

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Speaker 1: is a little bit like shocking to me just how

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Speaker 1: little civilians truly understand how much authority and power that

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Speaker 1: young military officers have. And I often wonder, I mean,

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Speaker 1: because you're the CEO of a successful company now, shame,

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Speaker 1: but I often wonder it is it do you say,

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Speaker 1: do you get the same sense that there is a

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Speaker 1: huge communication gap or a huge gap between you know,

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Speaker 1: the type of service at veteran's blows me away.

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Speaker 2: It blows me away, even with people that have like brothers, sisters,

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Speaker 2: kids in the military, just how little they truly know

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Speaker 2: about them.

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Speaker 1: It's so true, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's the responsibility aspect. They all, they all,

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Speaker 2: they all think we act like we're in boot camp

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Speaker 2: the entire time, you know, yelling orders at each other

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Speaker 2: all the time, like oh no, oh, that would work

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Speaker 2: at all I'm sorry, but you know they think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're It's like, it's just it. But over time.

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Speaker 2: At first it's shocking. When I got out, I kind

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Speaker 2: of went into a depression. I didn't know what to do.

347
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Speaker 2: I got into the civilian world and we call everybody

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Speaker 2: vice presidents and stuffy, give everybody all these types. I know,

349
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Speaker 2: but it could mean you're like the number two guy

350
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Speaker 2: at JP Morgan, or you're a nobody like I just like,

351
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Speaker 2: what does this mean?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: I strongly believe you treat everybody the same, so it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter title. That's not what I'm saying. It was

355
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Speaker 2: just so confusing to me. You know, in the military,

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Speaker 2: you had a rank, you had you had an MOS

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Speaker 2: or whatever, you know, what you did and that, and

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Speaker 2: so it was pretty easy to understand where you were

359
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Speaker 2: in the food chain and what your responsibilities were. And

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Speaker 2: in the civilian world, it was it was so less

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Speaker 2: structured that I've been used to that structure. It just

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Speaker 2: took a while to adjust, and I kind of find

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Speaker 2: the civilian world pretty easy. There's tough challenges in business,

364
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Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but nobody's shooting at you, you

365
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Speaker 2: know what I mean. And that I think that perspective

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Speaker 2: as a veteran helps me chill out when something doesn't

367
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Speaker 2: the deal doesn't go right, I lose a big deal

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Speaker 2: that this costs me millions dollars. Things like that, where

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Speaker 2: most people be freaking out. It's kind of like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that sucks. Moving on, Yeah, right, the old saying and

371
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Speaker 2: embrace the sun. Right, just take it, breathe it in,

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Speaker 2: smile a little bit, you know, maybe take an evening

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Speaker 2: and have a few and then get back at it.

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Speaker 1: Man, I it's so funny. It's amazing. Like you, you

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Speaker 1: being in the navy, me being in the army, but

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Speaker 1: our experiences are so so similar. I just it never

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Speaker 1: ceases to amaze me how that tends to be the

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Speaker 1: case of veterans, you know. So take me back to

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Speaker 1: the moment where those two instructors are are coming to

380
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Speaker 1: you and saying, like, have you ever thought of what

381
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Speaker 1: do you call it?

382
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Speaker 2: Like?

383
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Speaker 1: Electronic warfare?

384
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Speaker 2: It's called yeah, it's called electronic warfare. The capabilities of

385
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Speaker 2: that planet's getting it's going to be getting retired.

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Speaker 1: Here which plane shane to eat?

387
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Speaker 2: The EP three E three, So this is a big

388
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Speaker 2: four engine prop. When people I tell people, I flew

389
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Speaker 2: a spy plane. This isn't a seventy one sexy mock one.

390
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Speaker 2: This is a slow We called it the sky Pig,

391
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Speaker 2: and it's not hanging off everywhere. You know, if we

392
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Speaker 2: go faster than two hundred and fifty knots, things start,

393
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Speaker 2: they're playing tennis and stuff. So we're literally limited to

394
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Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty knots. It's the size of the

395
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Speaker 2: seven thirty seven, like a Southwest chap So it's it's

396
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Speaker 2: a big converted airliner, is what it is.

397
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Speaker 1: So so you, first of all, you could totally and

398
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Speaker 1: you should tell people that you fly SR seventy ones.

399
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Speaker 1: I mean, like you, I think with your experience, like

400
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Speaker 1: your experience.

401
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 2: Let allergies, I keep coughing, Oh.

402
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Speaker 1: God, Shane, it's okay, it's okay. But you should totally

403
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: tell people that because your job, just the job that

404
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 1: you did just sounds super cool. And also the sky

405
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 1: Pig is is like the worst nickname ever for airplane,

406
00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: sounds articulous.

407
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: This thing is. It's not pretty, but it was. We

408
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 2: had a lot of cool gear on that airplane. We

409
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: can do a lot of you know, the crew of

410
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Speaker 2: twenty four people, that's a big crew. That is a

411
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 2: huge you know, that's yeah, we had we had all

412
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Speaker 2: we covered the full spectrum of intelligence gathering on that thing.

413
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Speaker 1: So yeah, so you know, explained, explain to people what

414
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: like the mission was the stuff that you can talk

415
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: about because sure, you know, you hear it's a spy plane.

416
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: But and I as a military guy, I want to

417
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Speaker 1: ask you about the capabilities of the plane. But of

418
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Speaker 1: course you might not be able to talk about that.

419
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Speaker 1: But like, what what was the mission when you say

420
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Speaker 1: electronic warfare?

421
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 2: Sure, the mission very depending on if it was wartime

422
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: or peace time. Peace time, We're just trying to figure

423
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: out how the enemy operates, right, so we're listening, we're watching,

424
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Speaker 2: we're detecting all types of different spectrum everything from communications

425
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Speaker 2: to signals to everything to just see how they communicate,

426
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Speaker 2: how they work. You know, we we we didn't fly

427
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Speaker 2: over obviously, we stayed out in the national airspace. But

428
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Speaker 2: you know, they would react to different sectors differently depending

429
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Speaker 2: on where you were at, like on the coast of China, right,

430
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Speaker 2: they the southern area operated completely differently than the northern.

431
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 2: And so I'm not I don't want to get too specific,

432
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Speaker 2: but that was and then in wartime, we we the

433
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Speaker 2: fighter jets didn't go in if us or we had

434
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: there's a Rivet Joint RC one, the air force had

435
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: to be airborne because we would we would let them

436
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: know if they were about to get shot. Basically, I'm

437
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 2: just par but we knew if the enemy knew where

438
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: where the fighters were, so we would also locate things

439
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: on the ground. Right, we could pinpoint the location. So

440
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: not only were we listening, we knew you're at. So

441
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: like the beginning of Afghanistan, they for some reason thought

442
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: if it was nighttime, they could do whatever the hell

443
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 2: they wanted. Right, We're talking literally the very first months

444
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 2: of the of the war. And it was like you know,

445
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: and they would get chatty Kathy on the radios while

446
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: they are driving around in their cones, you know. So

447
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: we sit in and listen in with our you know,

448
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 2: linguists and and and had to make that call good guy,

449
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: bad guy, right, and then you call it in and

450
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: give them the location and we'd say hit this spot

451
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 2: and they hit.

452
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: It, okay. So this is this is fascinating to me

453
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: because so we would we would have intel passed to

454
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: us from like Rivet Joint or or aircraft like you,

455
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: and that was us. And by the way, we never

456
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: knew what the hell that was. I mean, I'm just

457
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: learning about it now. I mean I've been out for

458
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: damn Bear over ten years, and I still like because

459
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: we would get this intel passed down from us, and

460
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: and we would we would like take the intel that

461
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: was passed from these airplanes and because you know, pass

462
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: on like what they were saying and where you thought

463
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: they would be. And I say, oftentimes it's it's they

464
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: can one kilometer by one kilometer area, or sometimes it's

465
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: even more specific than that. And we would we would

466
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: take those locations in those eight digit grid coordinates and

467
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: plot them on our map and say, oh, man, like this, yeah,

468
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: this is the enemy. And because this is a historical

469
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: ambush site and they must be there planning an attack.

470
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: So what we would do once we got that intel

471
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: is we would take our howitzers and we would fire

472
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: harassment and interdiction fires on those sites after we got

473
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: the intel from you, to let the enemy know that, like,

474
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: we know where they are and we can monitor what

475
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: they're saying. I mean, that's fascinating that you can do

476
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 1: that from that high up in the air we had

477
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: people on the ground that that you know, I don't

478
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: think by the way this, I don't think I'm disclosing

479
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: anything that's that's secret here. Because the enemy knew. The

480
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: enemy had their own com sect the communication security. They

481
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: would say like for example, yeah, like woods, they moved

482
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: the wood from here to there. They were talking about

483
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: wood meant rockets. So they had their own communication security

484
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: because they knew that we were monitoring what they were saying.

485
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it took them a while to figure it out.

486
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 2: They made it was it was. It was not smart

487
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: on their part those first probably six to eight months

488
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: of the war.

489
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that even when I was there in

490
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, this was five years after you're

491
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: talking about, we would still meet remote tribes in and

492
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: like in eastern Afghanistan that had never seen an American

493
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: And I mean there's no TVs, there's no electricity, there's

494
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: no running water, there's no cable. They get no news

495
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: like and I mean, like if you want to go

496
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: back to a time when Christ walked the Earth and

497
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: an AK forty seven and a pickup truck and an

498
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: Icon radio and that's Afghanistan, and like these people like

499
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: we would we would lace targets for fixed wing aircraft

500
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: or close airsport for jadeam or something, and they were

501
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: thinking that, like they thought that we were like wizards,

502
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: like we were calling this stuff down from heaven on them.

503
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: And I'm not even exaggerating. They they thought it was magic.

504
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: No, it's amazing how far removed they are from modern society.

505
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: You just don't even think it could exist.

506
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: It's like, it's truly we're on the ground in Afghanistan

507
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: and it was the closest thing to real life, you know,

508
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: the Flintstones meet the Jetsons, you know, because they they

509
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: would see stuff we would get out of our trucks,

510
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: you know, in our helmets or some are glasses, a

511
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: ballistic glasses, gloves covered from head to toe and armor,

512
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: like we'd look like we were some damn alien like

513
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: climbing out of a spacecraft or something.

514
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: You know.

515
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's crazy, but it's fascinating to me to

516
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: hear that. How are you able? How do you know?

517
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: So we get intel from you right, and we know

518
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: that it's coming from higher that's basically how That's basically

519
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: how we know. But where how do you know where

520
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: to look?

521
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: Well? I mean, you've got you've got historical stuff going on.

522
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: You've got certain methods in your scanning too, Right, you're

523
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: not always precise. So that's why we had such a

524
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: big crew. Right, we're monitoring a lot of different channels.

525
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: When I was i'd be a fly and I would

526
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: have probably ten twelve different conversations going on, and one

527
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 2: some of the left, ear some of the right because

528
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: I'm monitoring the back that's going on. I'm flying the

529
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: airplane because I was the mission commander too. I wasn't

530
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: just the aircraft commander. And so you're you're hearing all

531
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: these reports and then you're hearing your your folks in

532
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: the back talking to each other as they're trying we're

533
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: trying to verify, right, we don't just go, okay, we

534
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 2: found some people. Yeah, you know, we got to make

535
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: sure that they're bad guys and not just some you know,

536
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: poor bastard trying to get the hell out of there.

537
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: You know, at the start of the war, you know,

538
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: because a lot of people were just run into Iran

539
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: and running the pack standing to get out of town.

540
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: They didn't want, you know, and so you had to

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: make that determination. So it took a lot of different

542
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: We didn't want to just go up a one source.

543
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: We'd want to make sure we're verified. And that's why

544
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: I said. At the beginning, it was just crazy what

545
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 2: they were saying on the radios and stuff. You know,

546
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: it was like they were just oblivious. And then they started,

547
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: you know, like you said, use some comsect on it

548
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: and get a little better about it. But those first

549
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: few months it was like and believe they just said

550
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: that on the radio. I mean, it's like, Okay, that's

551
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: that's pretty convincing to me.

552
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: We're moving Osama bin Laden to this address. I so

553
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: what altitude do you fly at?

554
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, we're at like twenty four thousand feet. The

555
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 2: plane has so many holes in it from all these

556
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: dishes and stuff attached to it. We couldn't pressurize and

557
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: get any higher. Now, the Rivet joint was is a

558
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 2: seven oh seven, so they can get up in the thirties.

559
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: They could cover a lot more ground because the higher

560
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: you are, the more electrons are hitting the airplane, right,

561
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: So the larger area you can cover and monitor. Does

562
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: that make sense?

563
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: No, No, that's you want.

564
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's all about the curvature of the earth. Right,

565
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: So the higher you are, the more it's going to

566
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: hit you. More electrons are going to hit your airplane.

567
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: More electrons.

568
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and radio signals, radar, everything.

569
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: See, this is why you fly. You know, I'm just

570
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm just a simple ground pounding grunt like electrons.

571
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: Don't kid yourself. I'm not that bright.

572
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: Okay, So you got to tell me, you got to

573
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: tell me. So you had like you gained international recognition.

574
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, what when you're when your spy plane crashed

575
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: into a Chinese aircraft? Was it a MiG.

576
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a J eight. It was an indigenously

577
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: produced fighter plane, but a big one kind of like

578
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: it looks a lot like the old F four Phantom.

579
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: It was that size. So it was a big, old

580
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Cold War era fighter jads. So we monitor constantly. Like

581
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: I said earlier, you know, all of our friends and

582
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: foes quite frankly, you know, and we were used to

583
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, we got off the coast of China. But

584
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: when this this occurred, this incident occurred April first, two

585
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: thousand and one, so it was I to September eleventh,

586
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: and Bush had just taken office, and as you know,

587
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: those guys were all hawkish as hell to say the least, right,

588
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: I do, dytensions with China went up with Jane as

589
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 2: a man quick, right. So we went from doing a

590
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: few missions to a lot of missions off of China.

591
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: You know, we do one or two a week, two

592
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: five days a week, right, and it was pissing them off.

593
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: We would stay off the coast. We were, you know,

594
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: operating an international airspace. Don't get me wrong, but it

595
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: just you know, nobody just like we freak out when

596
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: the Russians come over near Alaska. Right, It's like, now

597
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: they can operate there, that's international law. Stop making it

598
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: a big deal. It's when it's unprofessional that it becomes

599
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: a big deal. Right. So they had a particular squadron

600
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: leader that was getting more and more reps. And like

601
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: I said, I was a brand new mission commander. This

602
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: was my first deployment as a mission commander. You know,

603
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: I had maybe ninety hours as a commander, and so

604
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: which is not a lot when you fly ten eleven hours,

605
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Just to put it in perspective,

606
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: ninety hours. As you know, I'd done some training and

607
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 2: maybe six or seven missions, right, not much. And so

608
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: he was getting more and more harassing, and you know,

609
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: they this had gone on with the Russians and the

610
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: Cold War, where they'd intercept and come up and thump you,

611
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: which means they you know, they go underneath the airplane

612
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: and go vertical right in front of you and make

613
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: you fly through their jetwash, which shakes the hell out

614
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: of the airplane. We were actually used to that. But

615
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: the Russians knew how to fly, they were trained in

616
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: formation training. Back then, the Chinese didn't even teach form flying.

617
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 2: They've come a long way. This is two thousand and one.

618
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: They've come a long way, trust me. But back then

619
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: they didn't even train in their own squatters flying formation

620
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: off of each other. So now they're coming up trying

621
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: to harass us, and they're flying off our wing, trying

622
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: to fly form off a slow plane doing like one

623
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty knots at twenty four thousand feet. Well,

624
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: fighter jets aren't built the fly that slow that high,

625
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: so they're unstable, and that was really the problem. So

626
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: in the week's leading up to this, he'd become more

627
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: and more harassing. They'd come out usually with two was

628
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: sometimes four, but most of the time two fighter jets

629
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: and they just sit out there and we we'd exchange

630
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: hand signals through the windows and stuff like that, and

631
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, it was it was so crazy I look

632
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: back at now, that was it started to become everyday life.

633
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: Like literally, I'm unarmed flying a slow, lumbering prop in

634
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: the middle of the ocean, and I've got a fighter

635
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: jet with missiles on It threatened me, you know, on

636
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: a daily basis. And so this day we were literally

637
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: done with the mission. We were like ten minutes from

638
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: going home. We get in, we get we get instructions

639
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: that we're going to be intercepted. And so I said, okay,

640
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: we're staying on because that's when you collect good intel, right,

641
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: they're talking to their base, you're figuring out what's going on.

642
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: You're going to see their tactics, et cetera. So instead

643
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: of just running, I stayed. That's, you know, that's my call.

644
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: Some would say that was aggressive. I don't think it was.

645
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: I think it was my damn job. And so we stayed.

646
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: And this I came up and this time instead of

647
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: staying off my wing like forty fifty feet, he came

648
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: up and he was in between my props like three

649
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: feet away, and I'm like, what in the hell. So

650
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm calling back to my navigator going check our position

651
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: because I thought we were screwed up and we're in

652
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: their airspace? Do you know what I mean? I mean,

653
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: this was like, this ain't good. So I immediately called

654
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 2: back going you know, nab to Regina Kaufman. She was

655
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: We called her the pocket Nab. She was about five

656
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: foot tall, so we called her pocket Man. And she's like, no,

657
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: we're way, We're not even and I've said okay. So

658
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: he comes up twice and one time he stalled underneath me,

659
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: lost controlled flight fell off, so they turned away and

660
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, they're turning away. It's time to go home, right,

661
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, oh my god, this is I knew

662
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: that right then. The President would know about this in

663
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: about two minutes. That's how serious this was. So I'm

664
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: turned around, headed towards Okinawa. I'm starting to speed up

665
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: to go home, because when we're on station, we go

666
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: as slow as we can to say gaps, so we

667
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: can stay there longer. Right, So I'm speeding up. I

668
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: got the autopilot on. All of a sudden, I get

669
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: a call from the back and they said, here they

670
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: come again, And I'm like, what in the hell is

671
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: this guy doing because they usually came once, stayed a while,

672
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: messed around, and left right Now, this was the third

673
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: intercept of this flight, which for me had never happened.

674
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it never happened before, but not to me.

675
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: And so the third time he came in, he came

676
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 2: from behind us too fast, and he tried to slow

677
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 2: down by pitching his nose up, and he went right

678
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: into my left prop, so where his tail, you know,

679
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: meets his fuselage or the airplane right there, my left

680
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: far left engine cut him in half. It's like the

681
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: best way to describe it is if you're a redneck

682
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: like I am, It's like it's like doing one hundred

683
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: miles an hour down a gravel road and hitting walk forward.

684
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: That's the best way I can describe it. If you've

685
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 2: ever done driven gravel roads, you know at that point

686
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: you're just along for the ride. You hope it sits

687
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: on the road. And so as it cut his plane

688
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: in half, my nose flipped violently to the left, obviously

689
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 2: because my wing had just been impacted. His tail broke off,

690
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 2: tore through my aileron which turns the airplane tore a

691
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 2: hole through that, and then his nose broke apart, hit

692
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: my nose and tore my nose completely off of the airplane,

693
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: and next thing I know, we're inverted in it. We

694
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: were in an inverted die for almost two miles.

695
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: Are you in this airline?

696
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 2: You know? The planes exploded and there's you know, I

697
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: had and I just thought we're dead, and I look down.

698
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: I'm looking, you know, I'm looking up at the ocean,

699
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: and I see his plane, half of it, the front fuselage,

700
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: with like a two block flame bursting out of the

701
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: back of it, you know, as he's going straight towards

702
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: the ocean, and I was like, man, he's you know,

703
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: he's going quick. And I realized we were falling at

704
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: almost the same rate. You know, that's my reference point.

705
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: I saw him punch out. He literally asked for permission

706
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 2: to eject. This is the kind of government. This guy's

707
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: going down in flames and he's calling his commander to

708
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: ask for permission to eject. Cause it's insane that probably

709
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: I probably should have just said that, but I did anyway.

710
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: So we were falling at this rate, and I'm like

711
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get the plane right side up, and

712
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: I finally got it right side up, and we're still

713
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: in a nose dive. But I knew it just was.

714
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 2: It was taken full right on, right righter to hold

715
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: the plane up. But I just had this feeling of

716
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 2: don't pull, don't pull, don't pull, and it was god

717
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: plane and simple, and I'll tell you why in a minute.

718
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: So we started out twenty four thousand feet. I got

719
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: the plane somewhat out of the diet at about seven

720
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: thousand feet, So.

721
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: That's a long that's a long drop, and I can't

722
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: even I can't believe the decomploin.

723
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: We had explosive decompression. So there's wind screaming through the airplane.

724
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: There's cables that were torn off when the nose was departed,

725
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: their slapping the wind screen. My left engine, that prop

726
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: is out there. It just didn't cut him in half.

727
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: And so now that engine had obviously failed and the

728
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: prop went flat, so it's out the windmilling. It's like

729
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: kying of parachute to your left wing. Aerodynamically speaking, it's

730
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: causing that kind of force. So I'm holding this and

731
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: I'm a big guy. It tore my shoulder apart pulling

732
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: this aeroplane up. It took us thirty five minutes, and

733
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 2: so I knew we have specific instructions depending on the

734
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: target country of what we're supposed to do in an

735
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 2: implight emergency. And back then we pulled our carriers into

736
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: China still like there was a lot of controversy laterally saying, oh,

737
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: why don't you crash into the ocean. I'm like, I

738
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: had specific directive orders to destroy the equipment and land

739
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: and that's what we did. So now the crew in

740
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: the back, they've been pinned to the floor and as

741
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: inverted died. And now I'm calling back to him saying, one,

742
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: get your parachutes on to activate the destruction checklist. So

743
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: they're opening up the emergency exits over the wings and

744
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: they're chopping up the gear and chucking it out. In

745
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 2: the meantime, the other fighter jet rolled on our six

746
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: and asked for permission to shoot us down, and they,

747
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: thank God, told him no. And so you know, I'm

748
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: trying to hold this plane up. I've got two of

749
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: my four engines damaged, no nose and my tail was

750
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: really acting weird. I couldn't get the forces out I

751
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: had to hold force onto it. Usually you can trim

752
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: it out. I don't want to be too technical, but

753
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: when I landed and later infected the airplane, there's a

754
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: wire that goes from the very tip of the of

755
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: the roof of the cockpit to the tail. The front

756
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: had torn off and it had wrapped around my tail. Okay,

757
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: so I had a wire jammed in an elevator which

758
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 2: makes the plane go up and down. Not good. Well, later,

759
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: when I was back the people that took the airplane apart,

760
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: one of the engineers I was getting ready to go.

761
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: I was actually on an instructor. I had two students

762
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: going to fly. This is months later, comes out. He says, hey,

763
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: there ten hos that I took apart in your plant.

764
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 2: I said, great, I'm going to go flying for the topic.

765
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: Get back. He goes, you know you always complained about

766
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 2: that wire in your tast and I said yeah. He goes, yeah.

767
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: When we unraveled it, the elevator fell off the airplane.

768
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 2: That wire wrapped around my tails. What was keeping me

769
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: up in the air. So we we're calling may Days.

770
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: They're not answering us. We have to come in, and

771
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: I didn't want to fly over the top of the

772
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: city because this plane's disintegrated and I didn't want to

773
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: kill a bunch of people if we came apart, So

774
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: I had a maneuver. Now I knew where every airbase

775
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: is on the east coast of Title is leaguing at

776
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: that right, so I knew where I was going, and

777
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: it was the exact airbase where these guys were out of.

778
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: So we came around, but by then I lost my altitude,

779
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: so I didn't have any air speed. They were torn off,

780
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: so all we had was the navigator calling out our

781
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: GPS speed. But my flaps were damaged. I had two

782
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: engines out of the four, and I didn't even know

783
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: if my landing you were going to come down because

784
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: he'd hit my nose. I didn't know if my nose

785
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: it was going to come down. I couldn't dump fuel imaged,

786
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: So I'm like twenty five thousand pounds overweight. So we

787
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: ended up touching down at over one hundred and eighty

788
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: knots because the plane wasn't flying slower. You normally landed

789
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: about one point fifteen. So now we're overweight, we're landing,

790
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 2: you know, and so it took everything I had to

791
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: get that plane stop before it went off the end

792
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: of the runway, and so, you know, you touch down

793
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: and you're like, holy crap, the good Lord just stepped in.

794
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: Clearly this wasn't this wasn't mine and the other skill right,

795
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, the engineers, everybody did a great job, but

796
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: there's more involved here. And so you know, you're you're

797
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: just you're adrenaline as pumping as you know it exactly.

798
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: It's just it's like being a fire, you know, the

799
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: adrenaline is max out. And now I'm looking around and

800
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: I pull over to the side of the runway. Up

801
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: comes to troop carriers and a bunch of guys with

802
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: a K forty seven surrounding my airplane. I'm likesh, yet

803
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: I wish I was just going to the Officers Club

804
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: to have a drink right now. I'm not going to

805
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: deal with this shit, you know. And so we made

806
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: sure we were destroying any of the last radios before

807
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 2: we got a satellite call out and uh and then I,

808
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't want to get anybody killed, so

809
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 2: I took everybody off the airplane at gunpoint, and then

810
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: Alan started sean it was the flying I'd been well

811
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: trained for you know, we pulled it off. The crew

812
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: did a great job. But now you know, the interrogations

813
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: began and they isolated me. Was out of the commanders.

814
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: So they basically kept me awake in a stool for

815
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 2: about eight days trying to break me. And a funny

816
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: side story is that I hit it. I hit it

817
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: from the Navy. But I've had sleep at me all

818
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: my life, and so back then, I when I got tests,

819
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: when I got the Navy, they said, you're sleeping about

820
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: an hour a day. That's all the sleep you're getting.

821
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: You're functioning. We don't know how you're doing it. But

822
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: here you go. Here's a seapap and I've had one

823
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: since I was like thirty two years old. It's crazy.

824
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 2: It's really great when you're in the dating sceneing hold on, maney,

825
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: let me put off my seat.

826
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: But the h they got a bit married now, but

827
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: so they were very intense, right and people think, oh,

828
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: were you really scared?

829
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: What you knew? I'm like, this is the Chinese. They're

830
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: going to do whatever they want. I later found that

831
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 2: the military cut off communications with Beijing said we got this,

832
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: we'll call you later, literally, which I didn't know at

833
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: the time, and I and I wondered because we then

834
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: got moved later when that broke. But for a while,

835
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: basically the Chinese Navy, their commander said, I don't want

836
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 2: to hear it. I don't want to hear from you guys.

837
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to break these guys, and so

838
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: that you know that changes your job, not from just surviving,

839
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: but my job was to protect my crew, and so

840
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: no matter what they threatened me with, and no matter

841
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: what they said, I knew that, you know, it was

842
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: my job to protect them, and that's that's what I did.

843
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: So the crew stuff together. I was isolated. They went

844
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: on a three day hunger strike, so they were able

845
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: to at least see me at meals, and they knew

846
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: they're going to have to kill me if they were

847
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 2: going to get to my crew. So I'm very proud

848
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: of the fact that ninety percent of the crew except

849
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: the officers, they went through one interrogation for twenty minutes

850
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: with two of them in a room, so you got

851
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: your buddy next to you. And so that's about the most,

852
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: you know, the best accomplishments of all that. It wasn't

853
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: aviationh it was protecting it through and making sure everybody

854
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 2: you know, got home intact.

855
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: How I have so many questions I've never heard. Look,

856
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: I've been in some crazy ass situations, combat situations, life

857
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: and desk situations, more firefights than I can possibly recount,

858
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: but I have never heard anything like this ever. And

859
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: it's like something that you'd see out of a movie,

860
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, honestly, how did you know?

861
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: The funniest thing is I did the book Sean right,

862
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: Lionsgate was gonna do the movie. They wrote a script

863
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: and the Chinese killed it. They pulled it because they

864
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: fund Hollywood.

865
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right.

866
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: I still can't go there. They still consider me a

867
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: murder and a spy.

868
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: That is complete, That is complete bullshit. That that that Hollywood,

869
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: lions Gate, that they can old this project. First of all, oh, they.

870
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: Would deny it, but I got I got told by

871
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: somebody who knew.

872
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: Well, of course it makes it makes what we hear.

873
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: You hear the stories all the time, so of course

874
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: you know the people that are watching and listening to this,

875
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: to this program are gonna they completely get it. Of course,

876
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: this is how it is. Yeah, China, and that's why

877
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: that's why a lot of these Hollywood production studios like

878
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: are afraid to push back on China because like that's

879
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: a significant portion of their revenue. You know, absolutely bullshit.

880
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: I I how did you How did you know not?

881
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: You got twenty three people on the aircraft? How did

882
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: you know not? You said it was a god thing?

883
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: But how did you know not to pull? Said you were?

884
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: You know, I just my gut said we were in

885
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 2: such a heavy dive. I was just like I was

886
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: looking out at the horizon. I'm like, I got I

887
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: got some ount to too, and I was just thinking,

888
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: you know, the air gets thicker the lower you are,

889
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 2: so you get more control of the aircraft. When you're

890
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: up high, the air spin, so aircraft are more unstable.

891
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I got to get down lower, right,

892
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: I got to get down lower. And I don't I

893
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: don't really you know, it was just I don't know

894
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: what it was, but but I just had this feeling

895
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 2: of don't don't force it, you know, just let this

896
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: thing come out. You know, you're right side up, You're

897
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: coming out slow. But I took it really slow. I mean,

898
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: could I maybe pull, you know, if the tail wasn't

899
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: damage I could have probably got out of that diet

900
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: by thirteen twelve thousand feet. But something is my gut

901
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 2: just said, don't don't force it. You got you got

902
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: plenty of altitude. And I knew. I knew I was

903
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 2: going to have to go into people like, well, could

904
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: you make it back? I'm like, good lord, this thing

905
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: was a bad shit, I would say the worst.

906
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you, were you able

907
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: to talk to your command throughout all of this?

908
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 2: We we Yeah. They called back and it was it

909
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 2: was it was. It was the middle of the night there,

910
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 2: and so it was just a watch standard in Hawaii

911
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: and this poor guy is getting a call and it

912
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: was on April fo, it was on April first, like,

913
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 2: so so a few people are like, is this some

914
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: stupid April fool?

915
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: Oh God, which I don't do.

916
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: Aple Fuels fool jokes. My all, my family knows, don't

917
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: do the Apple fool joke.

918
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: It's gotta be some some private or something, right.

919
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: It has to be some private like yeah, just the

920
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: guy he's taking this call and he said to him,

921
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: can you can you hold for about five minutes? I

922
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: need to call the camera like we can't hold. We're

923
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: a gunpoint here, you know what I mean, We got

924
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: to shut down. So you know, I'm sure that you

925
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: know that guy had a rough day to say the

926
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: least getting that call, right, but we got the information out,

927
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 2: We let everybody know we were alive, you know, and

928
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: then and then had to just destroy the radio.

929
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So you told me also that your crew where

930
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: they were throwing radios out of the plane as you're crashing.

931
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 2: The crypto gear, the crypto gear in the area. Yeah,

932
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 2: we have metal suitcases and they took an axe and

933
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 2: they punch a hole in it and throw it to

934
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: the body of the ocean. You know that you're never

935
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 2: gonna find well, and if you do, it'll be dissolved.

936
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: Well, right, but how the hell are they doing this

937
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: when they're I mean, because presume I don't. I've never

938
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: been in a situation like that.

939
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: Once I got the plane straight and level, you know

940
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: what I mean, it was still rough, but we were

941
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: we were upright. It was after we were out of

942
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: a dive obviously that they started doing this. We had

943
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: it was thirty five minutes from impact to whom we land.

944
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

945
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: It wasn't quick.

946
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: How did how did you land this? Thing.

947
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: You know, we good crew. The plane held together. I

948
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 2: can't believe that thing held together. The damage it took.

949
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: That things a truck. And you know, if people said, well,

950
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: what if it would have been a female pilot? And

951
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: I had three females on board who did off. One

952
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: was one was my flight engineer, one was the navigator,

953
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 2: and one was the one of the heads of intel

954
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: in the back. And and you know, I said female

955
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 2: or not, I said, there's ninety percent of the pilots.

956
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: I know it wouldn't have been strong enough to hold it.

957
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: The force it took. I mean back then, I benched.

958
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: Like three eighty that's insane.

959
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 2: I was, you know what I mean. And it tore

960
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: my shoulder part holding it. I not much forced for

961
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: that long. I mean, that's total adrenaline, right, you know

962
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: those strengths I do, you can do, but but you know,

963
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 2: how long can the adrenaline last? Right? And so you know,

964
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: I obviously had my copilot helping me hold it. It

965
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: wasn't just me initially it was, but then and my

966
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: copilot's a big dude too, So I mean it it was,

967
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: it was. It was. It was the right crew in

968
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: the right place, and and I, and I don't say

969
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: it lightly. I mean God stepped in and I made

970
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: some deals sitting sitting in a Chinese person with the

971
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: Good Lord, and I think I've helped to him.

972
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: I I'm absolutely stunned by this. I mean, I remember

973
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: this happening, by the way, and I couldn't believe it then,

974
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: But to hear it personally from you now, it's just

975
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: it's I I've never heard anything like this. And so

976
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: you get off the aircraft and there there are Chinese troops,

977
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: the AK forty sevens, I mean there's AK forty sevens

978
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: or at the high ready or they are they are

979
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: they aimed? Are they aimed at you?

980
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: Few of them were? A few of them were. And

981
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: then they pulled them back and they and they they

982
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: their commander came up. They were as scared that we

983
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: were there as we were, you know what I mean.

984
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: They set as either they're like, what the hell is

985
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: going on? Right? And so the commander came up that

986
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: was there, and he spoke English and he asked me

987
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: if we were armed, and I assured him there were

988
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: no weapons because we weren't allowed to have weapons. That's

989
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: international law for reconnaissance aircraft. We're not allowed to be armed,

990
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: and so I assured him we had no weapons. And

991
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 2: then and then they didn't. They weren't pointing at us anymore,

992
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: but they were they were clearly wanted us off. When

993
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: we were in the airplane, I left the engines run

994
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: him so they couldn't come up, right. You're not going

995
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: to walk up th to an airplane with the props

996
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 2: right right. And and that was while we were getting

997
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: the calls out. But that was when they were getting

998
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: really nervous, and they were and I'm like, I don't

999
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: need some young shithead popping off and shooting shooting one

1000
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: of us, right, you know, There's just there's no point

1001
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: in it. And so you know, then when it was

1002
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: we got the airplane, I assured them we weren't armed,

1003
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, so they took us in and

1004
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: put us in a bus. And then it's so funny

1005
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: because I, you know, you remember things and you forget

1006
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: some stuff. But I thought we'd walk somewhere, and I

1007
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: found out later that we took a bus. And you know,

1008
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: just little things when your mind's just at a heightened sense,

1009
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: so to speak. And so you know, in those interrogations

1010
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: they'd read like an hour of how horrible America is

1011
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: and how I'm going to jail the rest of my life,

1012
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 2: and we could be you know, they can't guarantee that

1013
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: we're going to make it out of here a lot

1014
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 2: and crap like that, you know, and and so you

1015
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: kind of after days get you know, get used to it,

1016
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: you know. So then they'd like they take me back

1017
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: to a room and they'd let me fall asleep, and

1018
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 2: then they'd startle me and waking back up right. And

1019
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: after a few days you get pretty freaking jumpy, you

1020
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about. When you're in the field

1021
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: and you're exhausted, you know, trigger happy, you get, so

1022
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 2: to speak, like anything startles you. So I just guard

1023
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: that were these taps of the shoes and walk around

1024
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: my room and hawk loogi's and sit them in the

1025
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 2: trash can and walk around on taps and just piss

1026
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: me off. And I remember, like day six, I'm hallucinating.

1027
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: I'm playing cards with my dead grandma, talking to her openly.

1028
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 2: And he woke me up and like I said, they'd

1029
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: let me sleep for like fifteen minutes and then you know,

1030
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 2: joltchit and he woke me up and I remember thinking

1031
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: because I had my own room because I was isolated

1032
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: for my crew, and I was like, there was a

1033
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: closet in this room, and I was like, I'm going

1034
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 2: to go behind this little bastard. I'm going to break

1035
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: his neck and I'm going to hide him in that

1036
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: closet and I hope they don't find him until I

1037
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: get out of here. And that is when I scared

1038
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: myself because I was ready to kill this guy and

1039
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: that would have not been good, as we all know,

1040
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And I was like, what

1041
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: and the fuck are you doing? You need to get

1042
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: your shit together, and so I just I prayed hours

1043
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: anytime I wasn't being interrogating while I was in parrogate,

1044
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: I'd pray. And then when they talk to you, because

1045
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 2: you're losing your mind, instead of trying to answer him

1046
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 2: with bullshit, I would start talking about Kentucky Fried Chicken

1047
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: and could they go get us some food, and I'd

1048
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: be willing to pay for it, you know what I mean,

1049
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: I just totally Or I would talk about they'd be like,

1050
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: what about your systems? And so I'd start talking about

1051
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 2: the pedo tube, which is what tells you how fast

1052
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: the airplane's going, you know, so they start taking notes

1053
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: like they were getting some secret crap and I'm told

1054
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 2: and you know, after a while, I think they started

1055
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 2: to respect. I know they did at the end because

1056
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: the two commanders, the two main interigators, came up and

1057
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: did picks with me once they were releasing me, saying,

1058
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: you clearly care about your people, right because I wasn't.

1059
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 2: They would have to kill me. They knew it. And

1060
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: so once you threaten somebody like they're saying, you know,

1061
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: they would blow smoke in my face. And I hate cigarettes.

1062
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: I hate them. So that's one of the things they

1063
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 2: do to keep me awake, because they their guards would

1064
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 2: take breaks and just sit there and smoke and blow

1065
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: smoke in my face. But they, you know, they made

1066
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: these threats, and once you don't follow through at those threats,

1067
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: then I knew it was a metal game, and I

1068
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: own knew the right. You know, if you say you're

1069
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: gonna take me away and put me in a jail

1070
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: on your do home, you say you're gonna you know,

1071
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: you're going to threaten to hit me. You're going to

1072
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: do this if I don't start talking and you don't

1073
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: do it. Well, now, the advantage is mod so to speak.

1074
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: So they tried changing tactics and then I'll stop, like

1075
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 2: day nine. So the rest of the crew hadn't been interigated.

1076
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: They's boarding their rooms with a roommate right freaking out,

1077
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: but at least not being interrogating. So they tried to

1078
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: do it a crew interrogation. After we ate and we're

1079
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: sitting there and I have my head, my other number

1080
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: two officer, and then my senior enlisted guy, guy named

1081
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: Nick Mellows, who is I was twenty six at that time.

1082
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 2: He'd been in the Navy twenty eight years. He's a

1083
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 2: Greek dude, larger than life. You would love this guy.

1084
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 2: And they're reading all this stuff that they've been reading

1085
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: to me every time they interrogate me, you know. And

1086
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 2: Nick Mellows has a temper to say the least. Right,

1087
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: He's a big Greek dude. He's bald headed, he talks

1088
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: two inches from your every other words the F word,

1089
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: but everybody loves it. I mean, he can insult the

1090
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: hell out of you and you don't care. And so

1091
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: he's getting pissed, right, he's starting to get mad. I'm like, oh,

1092
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 2: I can't have him lose at his temper because if

1093
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 2: he loses it, this could be bad. Right, So they're

1094
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: reading this and he's starting to get physically angry. So

1095
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: I We're sitting at a table, so I just reached

1096
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: my right hand down and sitting next to me, and

1097
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: I start rubbing his inner fog, and he's looking at

1098
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: me like, what the hell? Do you know what I mean?

1099
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: I started rubbing his give him a few grazers and

1100
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: he chilled out. After that, he was like, what the hell.

1101
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: We still laugh about that to this day. I had

1102
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: to de escalate the situation.

1103
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: I can't what is going through your mind during those

1104
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: eight days in captivity? I mean, how are you? I

1105
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: mean you start, you know, tell me about the slow

1106
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: deterioration of what that was like, because I know, you know,

1107
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: you start strong, and their throat and all these threats

1108
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: at you. But over time, yeah, you know, your sleep deprived,

1109
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: your mind starts playing tricks on you. You start, like

1110
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: like you said, you start like losing their mind.

1111
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: It's a mental it's a mental strength game. And it

1112
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 2: was horrible, but it taught me everything I needed to

1113
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: know about myself, if that makes sense, you know what

1114
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 2: I mean? Yeah, it was intense. Did you ever it

1115
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: has twelve days and it was a long time. I

1116
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 2: thought we were gonna be there.

1117
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: A called a lot long twelve days. It is a

1118
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 1: long time. That's it is a long time. I was telling.

1119
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: I said, they'll sit in a closet in the dark

1120
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: for six hours and then come talk to me. You know,

1121
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: don't even have to have anybody messing with you. Just

1122
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: go sit in a closet for six hours. You can't sleep,

1123
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: stay away and just sit there.

1124
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: Do they did you go through any like seer training like.

1125
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 2: We had We had done. Yeah, we had been. We

1126
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: all have to go through seer training and that was

1127
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 2: some of the best I remember taking that training. And there,

1128
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, they put you out in the cold that

1129
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: we were We almost got canceled in the middle of

1130
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 2: the winter in Maine. Runs with Maine and they had

1131
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: a couple of guys that got hypothermia. And then they

1132
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: capture you, right and they literally smack the ship up.

1133
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 2: They put you in a box, they interrogate you. You know,

1134
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: they do spress positions and and uh and uh. I

1135
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: got hit pretty good. It messed my job for a

1136
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 2: couple of years. A big dude popped me, and I

1137
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 2: mouthed off, I was being a dipshit young idiot, and

1138
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 2: you know, so he let me know who was in

1139
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 2: charge real quick. And I remember the time going, this

1140
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 2: is just some bullshit military harassment, you know what I mean.

1141
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: But the one thing they did was they did I'm

1142
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 2: not going to get into the techniques, but they do

1143
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 2: certain things where you screw up and they're like they

1144
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: did something, and they said, okay, you need to sign

1145
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: in here. So I signed in right, and then later

1146
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: they showed me it was like a confession. It was

1147
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 2: a piece of you know, it was folded in a

1148
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 2: way that I didn't know, but it was a signed confession, right.

1149
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget it because it embarrassed the shit

1150
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 2: out of me. M I mean, and uh, you know,

1151
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: it was one of I just I just read John

1152
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: McCain's book before that, and so this is all going on.

1153
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, this ain't you're six, This ain't you're

1154
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: a And I always just thought to myself, the blood's

1155
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: not going to go thin on my watch because and

1156
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: I have very mixed feelings on John McCain politically, I'm

1157
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: not a fan, but he had a he had a

1158
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: saying that that I always remembered, and he said, it's

1159
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: all about when you get home and you're looking at

1160
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 2: your buddy across the bar, knowing you did it right.

1161
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: Does that make sense? Yes, it's it's it's it's about

1162
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: being able to live with yourself.

1163
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: That's it makes complete sense to me. I mean all

1164
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: that we were focused on, like all the politics and

1165
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: the you know, the bullshit foreign policy stuff like when

1166
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: you're in you boots on the ground in Afghanistan, all

1167
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: that stuff goes away and the only thing that matters

1168
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: is making sure that you don't let the person next

1169
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: to you down. And so I can absolute pletely get it.

1170
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: And oh and for just so people are tracking see

1171
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: your survival, evasion, resistance and escape correct like it's been

1172
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: a long time.

1173
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pow Tree. They teach you how to try

1174
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: to get away, and they teach you how to act

1175
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 2: in the in the code of conduct if you get caught.

1176
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: Did you did you harken back to any of that training?

1177
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes sometimes I was going to say, sometimes

1178
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: it's just absolutely like unconsciously you just do.

1179
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and the and there you know, I

1180
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 2: would have I would protect my crew anyway. But half

1181
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: that crew were special assigned folks that are brilliant but

1182
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:29,959
Speaker 2: not necessarily the same military training. Does that make sense, Yes, yes,

1183
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 2: they're linguists, they're there. These are not These are not Marines.

1184
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: I had a marine on board, but these are not

1185
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: you know, you know what I'm saying. So I was

1186
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 2: really careful. And the funny thing about it is usually

1187
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 2: when I'm flying off a Vietnam, Vietnamese to send Americans

1188
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: in the back, right or you know, I ran I

1189
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: got some Persians on board, right. We we only had

1190
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: one Asian person on this airplane and he was the

1191
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: inplight technician, so he was Filipino. They were convinced he

1192
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 2: was Chinese. They kept screaming at him in Chinese and

1193
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: he didn't speak a word of it. So it was

1194
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: one of those the you know, the diversity of the

1195
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: crew was there, but it wasn't there was There were

1196
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 2: no Chinese people on board, so they couldn't figure out

1197
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: who did what, and so that really helped us and

1198
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: being able to just kind of keep them at arms distance,

1199
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 2: so they couldn't just focus on the four Chinese guys

1200
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: or gals on the airplane and start getting app for them,

1201
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

1202
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, that is that is crazy. So how

1203
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: did you find out that it was over and you

1204
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: were going to make it home? Like, how did that?

1205
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: How did that news break to you? How are you told?

1206
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: They did a group they did a group meeting. They

1207
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: read the whole thing that you're you're a spy and

1208
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 2: you're a murderer and you're you know, blah blah blah,

1209
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: and in the spirit of you know, goodwill, you'll be released.

1210
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: And I was kind of like, don't get your hopes up.

1211
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: This we don't know yet. And then they did all

1212
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 2: the picks you know that That was when I knew,

1213
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 2: and the my interrogators that have been putting the screws

1214
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 2: to me for twelve days came up and were taking

1215
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: individual pictures with me. I was like, okay. And so

1216
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 2: then we got out and we had probably a I

1217
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 2: don't know, four mile drive to the airport. So they

1218
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: put us in vans. They had a soldier or a

1219
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 2: police officer every four feet on both sides of the

1220
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: road the entire trip to the airport. We'd pull up

1221
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: and they wouldn't let a US military aircraft come get us,

1222
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: so it was a Continental jet and at the top

1223
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: of the at the top of the ladder is my skipper,

1224
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 2: my commanding officer, Mike Pagilrulo Pegs, who's like six foot five,

1225
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: mustache German dude. You know, he's standing up there just grinning,

1226
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, and one of my favorite picks

1227
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: is the pick they took. We all got our own

1228
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: seats on the airplane. Odin Rose, right, we're tired. The

1229
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 2: second I got the call we were in international airspace.

1230
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 2: My body shut down, shut down. There's a great pick

1231
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 2: that I love that I've got framed where my eyes

1232
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: my face is just you know, like I was finally safe,

1233
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 2: and so you know, you flip the defenses off and

1234
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 2: body me some rest. To say the least, they found

1235
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: me they were doing debrief. I said I was going

1236
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 2: to the restroom. Apparently they found me like four floors away,

1237
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 2: rolling around this building. I didn't know where the hell

1238
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 2: I even was, you know. So it was it was

1239
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 2: a great day. And the funny thing is, at the time,

1240
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: I didn't even know if I'd ever be able to

1241
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: tell the story. I didn't know if anybody knew. What

1242
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 2: we did was so secret that I couldn't even tell

1243
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: people in the Navy what I did, you know, So

1244
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: it was I knew it was obviously public. When we

1245
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: landed Agwatman, there was all these TV crews and I

1246
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: was like, okay, life just changed. I was literally going

1247
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: to go apply for the CIA, and uh, you know,

1248
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 2: it was going to going to make that transition, and

1249
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 2: that I knew was blown. So that the pie was

1250
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 2: kind of like shit, that was kind of my career

1251
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 2: path here and now this now I got to go

1252
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: talk to cameras you know, and what I'm and that

1253
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: was what amazed me. And then September eleventh hit. You know,

1254
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: we did all this role tour and there was all

1255
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 2: this attention and I just I was back flying three

1256
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 2: weeks later. I made them put me back into cockit

1257
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: because that was the only thing that cleared my mind

1258
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: was getting back in the air. And so I'm flying

1259
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: on an instructor, I'm doing the you know, doing the

1260
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: speaking tour that kind of stuff for the Navy, and

1261
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 2: you know, it's probably September eleventh, so I was the

1262
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, the fifteen minute guy, right. And then the

1263
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: weekend September ninth, I got invited back to Nebraska. Nebraska

1264
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: was playing notre name for the first time in thirty

1265
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: years or forty, you know, and I got to do

1266
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 2: the coin toss in September ninth, got to bring my

1267
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 2: crew out. It was one of the best weekends of

1268
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 2: my life. Wow, to say the least, it was so cool,

1269
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a Husker, what better. I flew

1270
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 2: home and I'll remember my mom because I was on

1271
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 2: the West Coast. My mom calling waking me up, bawling

1272
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: and said, somebody hit the towers. What are you talking about?

1273
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: And I thought it was just bad weather. You know.

1274
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: When I heard about the first one, I'm turning on

1275
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: the TV watching it. The second I saw the second

1276
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: one go in, I'd already sent over two years in

1277
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 2: the Middle East collect an intel. I knew who did it,

1278
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: I knew what it was. And I was getting ready

1279
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: to transfer out of my squad and I went into

1280
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 2: my skipper and I said, you I'm staying. We're gonna

1281
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 2: have to figure out OPSEC. Right because I was such

1282
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 2: a high viz guy, you know, sending me over to the

1283
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 2: Middle East, there was they caught a couple of crews

1284
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: filming me, you know, people filming me trying to monitor me.

1285
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure they wanted my head on a platter. I

1286
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 2: had been a great trophy for him. But you know,

1287
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: flying those first missions in tef Can, I would have

1288
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 2: never forgiven myself. If I wouldn't have been able to go,

1289
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, it would have haunted me

1290
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. And so I was. I

1291
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 2: flew over three hundred combat hours thirty two days to

1292
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 2: kick that off that line.

1293
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that is it's stunning to me that after

1294
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: what you went through in Chinese captivity, really, I mean,

1295
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 1: there's no other way to say it. Right, like they

1296
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: did they did you get like a I guess I

1297
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: don't think did you get like a prisoner of war medal?

1298
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 2: Because they you know, there there there there was talk

1299
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 2: of it, and the politics said.

1300
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: Because this wasn't a it wasn't like a war, right, but.

1301
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: It would qualify under it would it would technically qualify

1302
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: because of the duress we under. They changed it after Iran, right,

1303
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: because we weren't at war with Iran, right, all those people,

1304
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: you know, but I didn't. I don't, I'm not, I don't.

1305
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: I don't just don't give a shit about them, you know,

1306
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 2: it never could I have pursued it. Yeah, who cares? Well, right,

1307
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 2: I'm here. Yes, we all made it back. We did

1308
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 2: have We did have one crewmate take his own life

1309
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 2: a couple of years later. Sad deal. The Navy really

1310
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 2: left him. It gave him some mental health issues. He

1311
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: had some issues, and they literally because he was struggling mentally,

1312
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 2: they took him and sent him to be a seer trainer,

1313
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 2: teach pow training.

1314
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: What the hell I don't know, right.

1315
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 2: He's struggling with it. And that's the last place, he said.

1316
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 2: The guy and then he took his life. And his

1317
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: name is Brandon Funk was a great guy, brilliant. I

1318
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: don't even know how many languages that kids spoke. God,

1319
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 2: sad deal. But we got everybody home. And that's the point.

1320
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 2: So the medals don't.

1321
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 1: Mean shit, No, they don't. They don't. And you learn

1322
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: that real quickly when you get home and all the

1323
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: metals in the world.

1324
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: I'm just happy to be here. I'm just happy to

1325
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 2: be here.

1326
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because wait, so you you got the

1327
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: I like, you got the Distinguished Flying Cross. That's a

1328
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: huge deal. Yes, Like that's so that's.

1329
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 2: At the time I was I was the only person

1330
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 2: flying in the Navy that had.

1331
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. So like just to put it into perspective, like

1332
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: the Army awards, the Distinguished Service Cross, which is like

1333
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: what like Major Winters got during World War Two? Uh,

1334
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: you know that's the second highest award for valor or

1335
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: second highest award period in the whole country in the

1336
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: arm Is that the same for the Navy? Like the

1337
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: only thing higres of honor.

1338
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 2: It would be one no, it would not no, no,

1339
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 2: it'd be it'd be one step below that. But it's

1340
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: still very high. I mean, it was an honor to

1341
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: get it, Like the crew got air metals. I don't know,

1342
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 2: that was kind of bullshit, but whatever, they wanted to

1343
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 2: give me the Navy Cross, but it has it can

1344
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 2: only be given during combat, and we weren't at warwi China.

1345
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 2: So that's why I was to the DFC, which is fine.

1346
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 2: Like I said, I.

1347
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: I can't this. Your story is unbelievable. I mean, do

1348
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: you do you do you struggle with some of the

1349
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: I mean I can't imagine going through eight days of

1350
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: out of torture and not waking up in the middle

1351
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: of the night sometimes and be honestly, you know.

1352
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: No yeah, and it's gotten better. I mean, you know,

1353
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: I'm back to turn forty nine, a long time ago,

1354
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 2: and and I really I've really i these days for

1355
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 2: a lot of years. They I mean they call Simon's

1356
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: angry Osborne, right, I mean I was definitely a guy,

1357
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: and then they called me sugar later because they say

1358
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 2: I sugarcoat everything, which I do not. But I've really

1359
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 2: I've really chilled now. And there's and and there's one.

1360
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 2: You know, I realized you can only control what you

1361
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 2: can control. So I'm a big Marcus Aurelia, a stoic

1362
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 2: fan that's helped me find peace. And I just send

1363
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 2: every day at least a half hour reading the Bible,

1364
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 2: and it's brought me so much peace. I've always been

1365
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 2: a religious guy, don't get me wrong, but later in

1366
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 2: life I was struggling so much with the nightmares and

1367
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 2: that being pissed off about. You know, I still get

1368
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: a little jumpy. I definitely don't want fireworks going off

1369
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 2: behind me. You know, there's some things that aren't just

1370
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 2: going to go away. But I've really found a way

1371
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 2: to kind of I guess that's my way of coping

1372
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: with it and just kind of letting go and realizing

1373
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 2: roll everything. I think losing that Senate race helped me.

1374
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 2: That was a pretty big defeat for me. When I lost,

1375
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: just kind of realized, you know what, you're You're not

1376
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: going to win everything you go after, right, just just

1377
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 2: roll with it a little bit.

1378
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean, in any sane world. And I can't tell

1379
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: you how many people that I've said this to this

1380
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 1: show that have tried to run for office that that

1381
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: are freaking national heroes, and you you are one. I

1382
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: know that you probably hate to hear that, but I've

1383
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: never heard a story like yours. And you should have

1384
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,640
Speaker 1: walked into a damn Senate seat. Uh, But you know,

1385
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 1: like I know when I when I ran, and I

1386
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for you, Shane, but when I ran,

1387
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: like I went into it like wanting to make this

1388
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: country a better place, wanting to give our kids a

1389
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: country that's rich with opportunity, the same country that we

1390
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 1: grew up in, only better. And you just realize how

1391
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: many terrible people on both sides of the aisle are

1392
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: in are in politics, and it's it really discourages you

1393
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 1: when you get a look behind the curtain and look,

1394
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know I don't even want to

1395
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: get into Trump or how people feel about Trump, but

1396
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: like what he he exposed that there really is a

1397
01:08:54,560 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: swamp there and it exists. They're entrench bureaucrats with very

1398
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: little life experience outside of the government. And many of

1399
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: the elected officials. These people, they love the title of

1400
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: being a member, of being a representative or a senator.

1401
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: They think it's cool. They like the authority that comes

1402
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: along with it in the power, but they're not there

1403
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: to do a job. They're not there to make the

1404
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: world a better place. And that that is so concerning

1405
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: to me. And it's unfortunate that, you know, I learned

1406
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: that just trying to serve my country, just how dirty

1407
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: and despicable some of these people are. And it sounds

1408
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: like you had a similar experience. I mean, it's crazy.

1409
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 2: I did.

1410
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: I had.

1411
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 2: I did my last year. I got I moved up

1412
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: to the Navy yard because I had to have a

1413
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 2: bunch of surgeries my shoulder, my ankle, some other stuff. Right,

1414
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,719
Speaker 2: So basically I was on my way out. I decided

1415
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 2: to get out, you know, being that well known in

1416
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 2: the military at that low of a rank, you know,

1417
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 2: New O three, and you know You've literally got forced

1418
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 2: calling you and asking me to come to speed. It

1419
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 2: just I stayed in. Most people get out after something

1420
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 2: like that, right, they go out, they write the book,

1421
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 2: they get out. They came to me and said, will

1422
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 2: you write the book? The Navy did, and I said,

1423
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 2: only if I can stay in. You know, it was

1424
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,480
Speaker 2: just a different I planned on staying in. I realized

1425
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: it wasn't going to work right. Once I was out

1426
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 2: of my command and out of the people that knew me,

1427
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 2: I got just treated weird everywhere I went. Right. You know,

1428
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 2: you know, you're six doesn't want a famous three underneath,

1429
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 2: and that's getting He's getting calls from four stars seeing

1430
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 2: can it come this week and do it? Just doesn't work.

1431
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 2: It's not conducive to the military yet. I could say

1432
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: this my last year I was in d C. So

1433
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 2: I knew I was kind of looking at politics a

1434
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 2: little bit. But I started getting to know a few

1435
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 2: of the congressmen, right, going going to the Capitol Hill

1436
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 2: Club and yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll never forget having drinks

1437
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 2: and table with it. I won't name names, but I

1438
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 2: literally when they started telling my story to a congressman

1439
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: who didn't know the story which you know, this is

1440
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 2: like two thousand and three, you know what I mean.

1441
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: It's like you're in Congress, it's your job exactly.

1442
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 2: I mean, you didn't hear about this, and that's fine,

1443
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 2: but I'm kind of and he goes, wait, you're in

1444
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 2: the Navy and you fly and I said yeah, and

1445
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,919
Speaker 2: he goes, the Navy has airplanes and I just I stopped.

1446
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 2: It's a congressman asking me he thought those were air

1447
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 2: force planes landing on the character like a congressman, and

1448
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 2: I went, holy shit, what's running our country?

1449
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:32,839
Speaker 1: Exactly?

1450
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 2: And I could tell you I'm only met a handful

1451
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 2: and you know it that are worth a ship. The

1452
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 2: rest of them, they're not good people, Okay.

1453
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: I I could not agree with you more. And like

1454
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: the good people that I know, and they're they're there,

1455
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: they're they're really crazy people. There's not many and they're

1456
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: and they're really great, like uh, I love them dearly,

1457
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: but they're not many. There are not many. And I

1458
01:11:58,120 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: don't know what that says about the state of our

1459
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: tree or what it means with regards to where we're headed.

1460
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: But like I said, in any sane world, a guy

1461
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: like you walks into the house of Representatives or walks

1462
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: into the Senate with no issues.

1463
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 2: It's just.

1464
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 1: It's a different it feels, it feels like it's a

1465
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: different time now. I don't know, I don't know, but

1466
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: it does.

1467
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 2: It does. We're in a very very blormant place in

1468
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 2: our country's history right now, and I think it's, you know,

1469
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 2: weakness invites that. And I'm not a hawk, but I'm

1470
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 2: not either. I'm not sure about our future. I am

1471
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 2: not a hawk by any stretch, and I just I

1472
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 2: don't like where we're going, where we're at. And you know,

1473
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: you know this, not not to get political, but seeing

1474
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 2: what we're doing to a former president, I don't care

1475
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 2: what side of the eye, I completely agree with the bullshit.

1476
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 1: That's everybody, everybody, everybody, and everybody outside of yourself, everybody

1477
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: outside of DC in New York City knows it's complete bullshit.

1478
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: Or they're they're on the whole hard left and they

1479
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: don't want to they don't want it.

1480
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 2: They did just glad they don't. They don't care the

1481
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 2: win at all costs type folks. And there's some on

1482
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 2: the right to that'll do that type of stuff. But

1483
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,600
Speaker 2: right now, what you're seeing is this isn't good for

1484
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 2: our country. And and to your point about it, you've

1485
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 2: got some Republicans showing their true colors right, yes, by

1486
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 2: calling it out absolutely right.

1487
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: And it's like it's this is the number one thing

1488
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: that when you talk to people when I was running campaigns,

1489
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: they just want someone who's willing to fight for them.

1490
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: That's it. That's the number one quality that they want.

1491
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you're going to agree with them

1492
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,560
Speaker 1: on everything. They just want somebodyho's gonna be honest and

1493
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: somebody who's gonna fight. And you talked about not being

1494
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,679
Speaker 1: a hawk, and I think there's for me, having gone

1495
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: through what I went through and direct combat with an

1496
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 1: enemy of the United States and gone through what you

1497
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: went through, it's hard to come out of that and

1498
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 1: and want to put others through it potentially, you know.

1499
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 1: And so that's why I I can't in good conscience

1500
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 1: embrace what they would call today like a neo conservative

1501
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: hawkish mentality on foreign policy and this idea that we

1502
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: should be fighting worse everywhere. Like it's just like, having

1503
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: been through what I've been through, like we that should

1504
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 1: be a last resort. But it doesn't seem like it's

1505
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: a last resort to many of the leaders that we

1506
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: have in Washington. It's just that they just want to go, go,

1507
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 1: go and figure out the mission in the end state

1508
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: after and I just can't get on board with something

1509
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 1: like that.

1510
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 2: No, we've got no business. We've got our own problems

1511
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 2: to take care of. I completely agree issues that we're

1512
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 2: not addressing here, and we're going to get our We're

1513
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: going to get ourselves in a real bad place. And

1514
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 2: you know, we took the eye off of China for

1515
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: twenty years. In the hell. Yeah, I know, it's like,

1516
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 2: what are you talking about?

1517
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: I completely agree, I completely agree with you, and I

1518
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 1: just feel like, man, I've already kept you for an

1519
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: hour and fifteen minutes. I don't want to keep you anymore.

1520
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: But you got to promised me that you come back

1521
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 1: here and talk with me more. I mean, sure, I

1522
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: hate I appreciate you having it was it was fun.

1523
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 2: I annoyed it, and you know, it's always it's always

1524
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: good to have a good conversation with some like minded people.

1525
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: I mean, next time you're in Pittsburgh or I'm down

1526
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: in Florida, wherever the hell are past cross a beers

1527
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 1: are on me because man, you deserve it.

1528
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 2: I and so most of the time that I am

1529
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 2: down on Florida on occasion, well.

1530
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm ever in Omaha, if I'm ever

1531
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:29,679
Speaker 1: in Nebraska, like I said.

1532
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,560
Speaker 2: On me, but I'd love to meet you.

1533
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 1: R w H Energy is is is your company? Tell

1534
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 1: us what you're up to now? And we are lots

1535
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 1: of energy folks who tune into this.

1536
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a Department of Energy energy services company. We're

1537
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 2: on disabled veteran owned hire a lot of you know,

1538
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 2: disabled vets, work with a lot of other veteran firms

1539
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 2: at least, and we build micro grids and do energy

1540
01:15:55,560 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 2: efficiency so help bring resiliency to people that need power critically,

1541
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 2: you know, do like anything as simple as like an

1542
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 2: LED upgrade for campuses and large commercial industrial and so

1543
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 2: we bring the capital with it. It's it's pretty cool.

1544
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 2: It's that there's a website or Toba energy dot com

1545
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 2: and things are things are good. But we do everything

1546
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 2: that makes economic sense. It's not just a green energy

1547
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 2: sort of speak company. It's more of an energy efficiency

1548
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: and resiliency company. I love it.

1549
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: I love it and also an extraordinarily important mission. You know,

1550
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: our grid is so vulnerable in so many different ways.

1551
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 1: But that's a conversation for for another time. I feel

1552
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: like I hope that you stay in the fight politically,

1553
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: even if it's even if it's like not directly involved.

1554
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 1: But this country needs people like you now more than ever, Shane.

1555
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: And and thank you for giving us your time today.

1556
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 2: Thank you coming to you for your service, and I

1557
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 2: appreciate you having me.

1558
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: This is awesome anytime, man, anytime, God bless you, and

1559
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 1: like God bless your service man. Thanks for Wow, ladies

1560
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. That was Shane Osborne. I have been in

1561
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:14,000
Speaker 1: some ridiculously terrible life and desk situations before in my life,

1562
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: really really bad spots. I've never heard a story like

1563
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: Shane's before. So I hope you enjoyed the episode in

1564
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: the conversation, Like I said to you, like I say

1565
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 1: to you at the end of every episode, like we

1566
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: have some amazing things coming. I'm so excited to share

1567
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: them with you. This show isn't anything without you, the audience.

1568
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,879
Speaker 1: It's for you. We work hard every week to improve

1569
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 1: bit by bit just to make the show better for you.

1570
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:47,719
Speaker 1: So as always, thank you all so much for watching.

1571
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: You know, subscribe to wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe

1572
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 1: to my YouTube channel, but we're really migrating over to

1573
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,839
Speaker 1: Rumble right now because YouTube like why spend all the time, money,

1574
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: investment and building YouTube channel when they can just suspend

1575
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: you at the top of a hat. So we're migrating

1576
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: over to Rumble so you can watch everything there. You

1577
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: get tons of exclusive content, So subscribe to my channel

1578
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: Sean Parnell or Sean Parnell Battleground, both of the same.

1579
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: Go to the website Official Seanparnell dot com. We've got

1580
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 1: signed copies of all of my books on there, from

1581
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 1: Out Level Toomb Man of War, All at War, one

1582
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 1: True Patriot left four dead. They're all there, and we're

1583
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: also rolling out Battleground Apperil, So Official Seanparnell dot com.

1584
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 1: Check it out. And anytime you need anything for me,

1585
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 1: just write me on my social media Instagram, Facebook, whatever.

1586
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: I typically respond. We get lots of messages, but I

1587
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 1: try to respond to every single one and then, as always,

1588
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 1: God bless you all, and God bless this exceptional nation

1589
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 1: that we live in.

1590
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 2: Take care