Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth podcast. The back Home again in Indiana. Addition,
Speaker 1: as we head to Indianapolis for the NFL Scouting Combine
Speaker 1: this week, the Bengals were permitted to meet with forty
Speaker 1: five different players for exactly eighteen minutes. So what are
Speaker 1: those meetings like? The team's director of college scouting, Mike Potts,
Speaker 1: takes us inside the room. Have you ever tried a
Speaker 1: mock draft simulator where your computer makes picks for the
Speaker 1: other thirty one teams and then when it's your turn,
Speaker 1: you see who's left and pick for the Bengals. I
Speaker 1: enjoy doing three round mock drafts for Cincinnati and thought
Speaker 1: it would be fun at the combine to have some
Speaker 1: of the top draft gurus do that. Dane Brugler from
Speaker 1: the Athletic is up first, but before we get to that,
Speaker 1: I'll talk to a very special guest, Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: wide receiver James Lofton, who tells us why he's happy
Speaker 1: to see Ken Riley joining him in Canton. The Bengals
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Speaker 1: since beer rankings. I'm not talking about ranking your favorite
Speaker 1: beer brands or favorite beer styles. I'm talking about ranking
Speaker 1: your favorite beer drinking occasions, like a tailgating beer, or
Speaker 1: a beach beer, or a just finished mowing a lawn beer.
Speaker 1: I bring up the topic because I recently got stuck
Speaker 1: in the Charlotte airport for several hours, and the delayed
Speaker 1: flight beer might be number one on my list. There's
Speaker 1: something about shared misery and a frosty beer that turns
Speaker 1: anybody and everybody from grumpy to friendly. So here's a
Speaker 1: toast to the delayed flight beer. When your departure is late,
Speaker 1: it tastes great. Now, let's get to football. On Saturday,
Speaker 1: August fifth, Ken Riley will join Anthony Munio's as the
Speaker 1: second player who spent most of his career in Cincinnati
Speaker 1: to enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I recently
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to visit with Hall of Fame wide
Speaker 1: receiver James Lofton. We discussed the Ratler and much more. James,
Speaker 1: you indorsed Ken Riley's case to join you in the
Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame before he got voted in.
Speaker 1: What was your reaction to the Ratler getting selected this year?
Speaker 1: I was excited, you know, just but you go, man.
Speaker 1: I wish he could be around to enjoy it, because
Speaker 1: he really did earn it, and it just seems like
Speaker 1: for some reason, once he got passed over the first,
Speaker 1: second or third times, then people just he became an afterthought.
Speaker 1: But as a player on the field, he was somebody
Speaker 1: to contend with. He really was. You faced him when
Speaker 1: you were a youngster, and he was toward the tail
Speaker 1: end of his NFL career, but he was still getting
Speaker 1: it done at the very end. But we had two
Speaker 1: kind of head to head meetings, one in Green Bay,
Speaker 1: and I remember, because of the highlights, I always see
Speaker 1: this highlight. I caught a pass maybe from about the
Speaker 1: eleven yard line, a little fade route. He was stumbling,
Speaker 1: and being the young player that I was, I kind
Speaker 1: of turned and spiked the ball in his direction, you know,
Speaker 1: and and spiked it hard, then putting my hands up
Speaker 1: and ran back down to our sideline and took high
Speaker 1: fives from all the players. And then fast forward and
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen eighty three season and it's week nine
Speaker 1: and I am leading the NFL in yards. After eight games,
Speaker 1: I have eight hundred yards. So in my mind, I'm going, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have fifteen hundred and sixteen hundred yards this season.
Speaker 1: At the end of the game, when you picked up
Speaker 1: the newspaper we had newspapers in those days, my stat
Speaker 1: line was zero for zero, but there should have been
Speaker 1: an asterisk there. I had two offensive passing affairs calls
Speaker 1: against me pushing off on Ken trying to get to
Speaker 1: the ball. He was all over me that day, so
Speaker 1: he didn't forget that spike at all. We are visiting
Speaker 1: with Hall of Famer James Lofton, another former Bengal AJ
Speaker 1: Green recently announced his retirements. Injuries likely derailed his chance
Speaker 1: of going to the Hall of Fame someday. But what
Speaker 1: did you think of aj in his prime and his
Speaker 1: career as a whole. It's funny when you watch the game,
Speaker 1: you watch players. You watch their mannerisms, the way they play,
Speaker 1: the way they moved. And he was a guy who
Speaker 1: was built like I was and I and I always
Speaker 1: looked at him and said, man, that's that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I would look like in today's game, and obviously
Speaker 1: today's game referencing when he played, you know, ten years ago.
Speaker 1: But I looked at him and I just love the
Speaker 1: way he played. He was beautiful to watch. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's difficult for him just when you start to look
Speaker 1: at the numbers that guys are going to consistently put up,
Speaker 1: and the injuries got the injury bug got him the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, which was unfortunate because he was
Speaker 1: really one terrific player. The Bengals obviously have a great
Speaker 1: trial of wide receivers right now in Jamar, Chase te
Speaker 1: Higgins and Tyler Boyd. Do you think that's the best
Speaker 1: group in the NFL. It's interesting. I think that they
Speaker 1: are really up there. And as I was watching the
Speaker 1: AFC Championship game, I remember when Tyler Boyd took over
Speaker 1: from A. J. Green as the number one receiver and
Speaker 1: now he slid down to that number three receiver. But
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it, and I'm thinking about football, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what makes a team and what holds
Speaker 1: it together. Well, glue holds it together. And on the
Speaker 1: defensive side, it said Nickel. Defensive back that comes in,
Speaker 1: who can stop the third receiver? And the third receiver
Speaker 1: is the glue that holds the offense together. Yeah, you've
Speaker 1: got a good run game, you've got good starting receivers,
Speaker 1: a good tight end, but who can cover that third guy?
Speaker 1: And normally people could not cover Tyler Board. I think
Speaker 1: he had fifty eight receptions, seven hundred and sixty two yards,
Speaker 1: five touchdowns last year. And when he got hurt, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: the Bengals are I said this to myself, I said,
Speaker 1: the Bengals are in a little bit of trouble now.
Speaker 1: And as it turned out, they really were because they
Speaker 1: didn't have that third guy to go to and that
Speaker 1: allowed coverage to shift and really slow down Jamar Chase.
Speaker 1: They almost got back to the Super Bowl despite that,
Speaker 1: after coming within a couple of minutes of winning the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl the year before. How did this past season
Speaker 1: impact your view of the Bengals and how close they
Speaker 1: are going forward. I'm just I'm looking at the AFC North,
Speaker 1: and they are what the AFC West was supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Everybody talked about the Bengals and not the Bengals, but
Speaker 1: they're talked about the Broncos. And you talked about the
Speaker 1: Chargers and the Raiders and you said, Kansas, See, they're
Speaker 1: all gonna have winning records. Well, they didn't all have
Speaker 1: winning records. The team that almost the division that almost
Speaker 1: did have winning records from top to bottom was the
Speaker 1: AFC North with Cleveland finishing at seven and ten, but
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh nine and eight, the Ravens ten and seven, and
Speaker 1: then the Bengals on top. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: somebody can jump up from that division and move make
Speaker 1: the move. Deshaun Watson, is he gonna be the ju
Speaker 1: Saum Watson that we saw early in his career in Houston?
Speaker 1: And as Lamar Jackson gonna be the MVP type guy
Speaker 1: that he was early on in his career. Right now,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at it and you're saying that this
Speaker 1: is a quarterback driven league, Joe Burrow is at the
Speaker 1: top of the class in that division. Well, you mentioned
Speaker 1: two of the great ones in the AFC. Let's take
Speaker 1: a closer look at the entire conference. You've got Patrick Mahomes,
Speaker 1: You've got Josh Allen, You've got Trevor Lawrence, and obviously
Speaker 1: the guys you mentioned in the north. Where does Burrow
Speaker 1: rank on the list? And what do you like in
Speaker 1: respect about Joe? Well, you know I made my list,
Speaker 1: and you know you throw Josh Allen in there, two,
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence, Mahomes, justin Herbert Deshaun Watson Jackson, and then
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow and each Sunday, each Sunday. These guys can
Speaker 1: win games for you. Not that you win games with
Speaker 1: them or you think that you need better they are
Speaker 1: They are the guys that win games. And so now
Speaker 1: of the supporting cast, and do you do the little
Speaker 1: things during the course of the game. Do you protect
Speaker 1: the passer well enough? Do you have a good edge rusher?
Speaker 1: Can you run a game? Compliment this quarterback? So, Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: if you're stacking guys, you have to put Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: there first, because he's won the Super Bowls in that group. Next,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a wedding when you throw the
Speaker 1: guarter belt. It's a mad scramble. Number two, Joe Burrows
Speaker 1: hed better dive on it because I mean, you could
Speaker 1: have an argument with anybody at a bar in one
Speaker 1: of those cities and they would put their guy in
Speaker 1: number two. They would be foolish to put their guy
Speaker 1: above Patrick Mahomes, but to put their guy in number two,
Speaker 1: they would have a legitimate claim for that. And so
Speaker 1: I think it's that close with those guys. But when
Speaker 1: you look at clothes, you look at production, and production wise,
Speaker 1: it's Joe Burrow because he's been to the Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: He's played in AFC Championship Game two years in a row,
Speaker 1: so he is kind of a clear number two. But
Speaker 1: really just depends on who's buying. We are chatting with
Speaker 1: the great James lofton, does Joe remind you of anybody
Speaker 1: who played with or against? I know you got the
Speaker 1: comparison with the Joe Tanna because of the demeanor, and
Speaker 1: Joe Montana was like that. I was with him at
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl at an event on Radio Row and
Speaker 1: I just remember him being the guy that I felt like,
Speaker 1: if I wasn't playing in Green Bay, I want to
Speaker 1: be playing with Joe Montana. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of players around the league, if they weren't playing where
Speaker 1: they were currently playing, they won't be playing with Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: So this is the first offseason where the Bengals can
Speaker 1: try to extend Joe's contract, and obviously they will try
Speaker 1: to do that. He's probably going to be making fifty
Speaker 1: million dollars a year or something like that. What did
Speaker 1: you just say, fifty million dollars or something like that?
Speaker 1: How does that sound? Sounds pretty good? Right? It does
Speaker 1: sound crazy, but it's happened. I remember when it was
Speaker 1: seventy five cents to go to the movies. So assuming
Speaker 1: they get this done and they keep guys like Higgins
Speaker 1: and Chase with a salary cap ley, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if if you can do quarterback
Speaker 1: friendly deals like Tom Brady did with New England, you know,
Speaker 1: he still got paid a lot of money, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't always the highest paid guy. He wasn't always making
Speaker 1: what he deserved for what he was doing for his team.
Speaker 1: So it's not my money. So what a quarterback? I
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm about to say this, take a discount
Speaker 1: and only take forty million a year as opposed to
Speaker 1: fifty million a year. And would that really make a
Speaker 1: big difference? Because I think with all the revenue sources
Speaker 1: that the NFL has, the salaries are I guess they
Speaker 1: really are justified. Whatever Joe makes is going to be
Speaker 1: justified in Cincinnati, I can tell you that. So the
Speaker 1: Bengals offensive and defensive coordinators got head coaching interviews this
Speaker 1: past off season. They did not get selected. So the
Speaker 1: Bengals will go into next year with Zach Taylor in
Speaker 1: his fifth season and all of his coordinators with him
Speaker 1: for that entire time. Lu and a Rumo on defense,
Speaker 1: Brian Callahan on offense, Darren Simmons as the special team's coordinator.
Speaker 1: How advantageous do you think that is? Well, it is
Speaker 1: advantageous because you don't have any new learning, But then
Speaker 1: on the other end, it's also disadvantageous because you don't
Speaker 1: have any new learning. You're not bringing a new spice
Speaker 1: into the building. Because everybody who's competing against you in
Speaker 1: your own division, they're getting to know you a little
Speaker 1: bit better, You're getting to know them a little bit better.
Speaker 1: And then it really does boil down to the personnel.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned about the quarterback getting the contract extension,
Speaker 1: who does that chop off? That was really good, But
Speaker 1: now you've got to bring in somebody and teach them
Speaker 1: what this guy already knew. So having new the same
Speaker 1: coordinators helps in that fashion. So, but coordinators are important.
Speaker 1: Head coaches are important, and I love coaches who have
Speaker 1: smart gambles. So during the course of a game going
Speaker 1: forward on third down, you know, having a third down
Speaker 1: where you got third and one, throw that ball deep
Speaker 1: because you know you can pick it up on fourth
Speaker 1: down or you have confidence to do that. And you
Speaker 1: played to the strength of your players. What do they
Speaker 1: do well? Don't ask guys to do things that they
Speaker 1: don't do real well. And I think that the Bengals
Speaker 1: have done that when I watched them play. They don't
Speaker 1: ask guys to do things that they aren't capable of
Speaker 1: doing exceptionally well. Final question for James Lofton. We've crossed
Speaker 1: paths a few times over the years when you've been
Speaker 1: broadcasting Bengals games. The last one you did was in
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty season, shortly after Joe Burrow got hurt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: were you stunned that they were in the super Bowl
Speaker 1: the next year? You know what? And you go back
Speaker 1: to about week twelve and the Bengal I can't remember
Speaker 1: who the Bengals had lost too, but it was a
Speaker 1: loss and it might have been the Chargers. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that sounds if that's correct, but there was
Speaker 1: somebody that they lost to. That last quarter of the
Speaker 1: season is up, they're kind of done, and then they
Speaker 1: won the next four or five to close out the season.
Speaker 1: So it depends on getting hot at the right time.
Speaker 1: And we're always talking about playing your best football in
Speaker 1: December and January, and the Bengals have done that the
Speaker 1: last two years. And that really does boil down to
Speaker 1: coaching and the coach having that confidence in his players
Speaker 1: that pushes them enough during training camp a little bit
Speaker 1: during this course of the season, knows when to back off,
Speaker 1: understands the bye weeks, understands the Thursday night games and
Speaker 1: all of that, and makes it not that it's just
Speaker 1: player friendly, but it's also coach friendly because you want
Speaker 1: your coaches to be energized at the later part of
Speaker 1: the season. So that's what I think Zach Taylor has
Speaker 1: done exceptionally well. James, this has been great and on
Speaker 1: behalf of Bengals fans, thank you for publicly endorsing Ken
Speaker 1: Riley's Hall of Fame case before he got in. I
Speaker 1: think the impact of legends like yourself and others who
Speaker 1: spoke up and trying to make the case the cannon
Speaker 1: is sixty five interceptions deserve to be in Canton made
Speaker 1: a big difference. So thank you very much. Well, I
Speaker 1: just got to tag the Ken Riley's story with this,
Speaker 1: so we had the two head to head matchups. And
Speaker 1: then he takes a coaching job with the Green Bay
Speaker 1: Packers and he lives five houses away from me, just
Speaker 1: to torment me even more. I couldn't get open to
Speaker 1: even when he was coaching for the Packers. Well, that
Speaker 1: bust is going to look great in Canton, and thank
Speaker 1: you for the impact that you had in making it happen.
Speaker 1: So again, thank you for your time. Greatly appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and I hope our paths crossed in a broadcast booth
Speaker 1: sometime soon. Great scene you get Dan. The Bengals Booth
Speaker 1: podcast is brought to you by Kettering Health, the official
Speaker 1: healthcare provider of the Bengals. With more than one hundred
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Speaker 1: is committed to guiding you to your best health. Visit
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Speaker 1: More than twenty nine thousand customers trust paycre to help
Speaker 1: them recruit, pay, engage, and retain employees. Learn more at
Speaker 1: paycorps dot com. The NFL Scouting Combine has been going
Speaker 1: on this week in Indianapolis, and while the drills are televised,
Speaker 1: one thing we don't get to see are the meetings
Speaker 1: that the teams hold with the players. What exactly are
Speaker 1: those meetings like To find out, I caught up with
Speaker 1: the Bengals director of college scouting Mike Potts. Mike, how
Speaker 1: valuable is the combine and what do you value the
Speaker 1: most while you're here? It's really valuable overall. I think
Speaker 1: the medical is probably the thing that is the most
Speaker 1: valuable at the end of the day for us. Just
Speaker 1: having three hundreds some players all in the same place,
Speaker 1: with all these doctors from around the league getting in
Speaker 1: depth scans and everything that they all that information that
Speaker 1: they need, that's probably, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: the most valuable thing that we get out of it.
Speaker 1: But then also the workouts in the interviews are obviously,
Speaker 1: um incredibly important as well. So it's it's just it's
Speaker 1: just really really great. We've been scouting these guys all
Speaker 1: year and um, it's it's great to have them all
Speaker 1: in the same location for a week and you get
Speaker 1: to sit down and look them in the eye and
Speaker 1: talk to him face to face and see him work
Speaker 1: work out there on the field. So I love it
Speaker 1: every year. I look forward to it every year. Um
Speaker 1: coming to Indie and UM, it's just a it's just
Speaker 1: a great event. I would love to be a fly
Speaker 1: on the wall for the one on one interviews, or
Speaker 1: not one on one because you have several people in
Speaker 1: the room, but the interviews that you do with the prospects,
Speaker 1: how many do you do while you're here? And how
Speaker 1: long are they? So there's forty five interviews that we
Speaker 1: get this year. They were spread out throughout Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: Thursday this week. UM. Some some years that it may
Speaker 1: be spread over five days or so, but they're eighteen
Speaker 1: minutes long each. We get to we get to pick
Speaker 1: the forty five guys that we want we want to
Speaker 1: interview and they can be anywhere from starting at eight
Speaker 1: am and then they can end as late as eleven
Speaker 1: pm at night. So there's there's some long days, but
Speaker 1: it's it's Uh, you know, probably my favorite part of
Speaker 1: it just you're you're talking to staff members from all
Speaker 1: these colleges, all of their coaches and getting information in
Speaker 1: their opinion on the player. But it's but it's nice
Speaker 1: to then bring that full circle and meet the player
Speaker 1: face to face. So it's a great process. We go
Speaker 1: through it. Um, I have set questions that I ask everybody,
Speaker 1: and then there's also specific questions tailored to that individual,
Speaker 1: and then we let our position coach go through some
Speaker 1: tape with them and and everybody in the room is
Speaker 1: kind of free to shoot out questions at you know,
Speaker 1: towards the end of it, if there's specific things that
Speaker 1: pop up. So it's, uh, it's an awesome, awesome process,
Speaker 1: and it's it's great for for some of the people
Speaker 1: that aren't familiar with the player to really have a
Speaker 1: strong baseline and introduction to some of these players. Is
Speaker 1: that typically the first time you have ever talked to
Speaker 1: the player, it typically is at some of the small schools.
Speaker 1: They may bring if they only have one prospect or
Speaker 1: one or two, they may bring them in to meet
Speaker 1: with you. If you go on a scouting visit to
Speaker 1: say a Division two school or something like that, and
Speaker 1: then there's a handful of schools that they'll introduce you
Speaker 1: to the player very briefly, but I would say probably
Speaker 1: a good ninety percent of the time it's the first
Speaker 1: real interaction with that player, and then that'll continue throughout
Speaker 1: the spring. Obviously going to their pro days, you'll get
Speaker 1: more face to face interaction with them, and then we
Speaker 1: may well we get thirty guys that we can bring
Speaker 1: in for visits to Cincinnati, so we'll get some more
Speaker 1: face to face interaction, but that typically most of the
Speaker 1: time is the first time that you're talking to them
Speaker 1: face to face. We're visiting with the Bengals director of
Speaker 1: college Scouting, Mike Potts. Eighteen minutes isn't very long. Do
Speaker 1: you have to stick to a tight script to try
Speaker 1: to get as much accomplished as you can in those
Speaker 1: eighteen minutes we do. We try to take advantage of
Speaker 1: every second that we have, so some of it is scripted,
Speaker 1: but there we try to make it a balance to
Speaker 1: where it's not too scripted and it's it's somewhat casual
Speaker 1: and conversational to where in that eighteen minutes you're not
Speaker 1: going to find out everything, but you want to get
Speaker 1: a feel for who they are as a person, get
Speaker 1: a feel for their general personality, you know, just just
Speaker 1: so you can go off of your scouting instincts and
Speaker 1: compare them to guys that you've interviewed in the past.
Speaker 1: And like I said, we ask a lot of the
Speaker 1: guys the same questions, so we can compare even the
Speaker 1: forty five guys that we interview this year, we can
Speaker 1: compare some of the ways that they answer those same questions.
Speaker 1: But yes, we try to make it as efficient as possible,
Speaker 1: and we're constantly tweaking it every year if there's one
Speaker 1: question we want to take out and a new question
Speaker 1: we want to add. But like you said, it's you
Speaker 1: can never get one hundred percent conviction on a guy
Speaker 1: in eighteen minutes, But we try to do the best
Speaker 1: that we possibly can. Are they taped? They We used
Speaker 1: to do that, but we chose not to go with
Speaker 1: that now. Like I said, it goes along with wanting
Speaker 1: to get a true feel or the person. And you know,
Speaker 1: just how it is with anybody. If a camera's in
Speaker 1: your face, you're probably not going to act exactly how
Speaker 1: how you would be in a casual setting. You know,
Speaker 1: you and I just sitting here having a conversation. So
Speaker 1: we had done that at times in the past, but
Speaker 1: we've kind of went away from that and we have
Speaker 1: we've chosen not to record it, but we do. We
Speaker 1: do take notes on everything. You know, all of our
Speaker 1: scouts in the room or are taking different notes and
Speaker 1: and we'll grade guys A through F in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, what we what we thought of them in
Speaker 1: the interview process. So it's it's, uh, you know, there's
Speaker 1: it's documented in a certain way, but we don't. We
Speaker 1: chose not to video or audio record it. If you
Speaker 1: have a quote unquote red flag on a guy, something
Speaker 1: that's happened in their past, an incidents, something that happened
Speaker 1: on their team, whatever that might be, is this a
Speaker 1: major opportunity to get to the bottom of it? Is
Speaker 1: that kind of when you address it? It is because
Speaker 1: everybody has different opinions on the players. So I may
Speaker 1: go into a school, one of our other scouts may
Speaker 1: go into a school. You may get ten different sources,
Speaker 1: ten different staff members that have an opinion on a guy.
Speaker 1: Maybe five or six are negative and maybe the other
Speaker 1: four or five are positive on the guy. And then
Speaker 1: when you get a chance, give this player a chance
Speaker 1: to tell his side of the story. Then maybe maybe
Speaker 1: there's some discrepancies there between different opinions that other people
Speaker 1: thought of the of the story. Sometimes maybe there's there's
Speaker 1: things that players will own up to that they did
Speaker 1: negatively that maybe some people on their staff didn't even
Speaker 1: know about. So there it kind of works both ways
Speaker 1: in that regard. So I do these fun facts interviews
Speaker 1: during the course of the season. I always end with
Speaker 1: the same question, if you could meet anybody in history,
Speaker 1: who would that person be? And it leads to some
Speaker 1: fun content. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. But do
Speaker 1: you have a question that you found over the years?
Speaker 1: You know, I often get a lot of interesting responses
Speaker 1: that help me understand these players. Oh man, there's there's
Speaker 1: so many different questions. I don't know if I could
Speaker 1: boil it down just to to one. UM. I always
Speaker 1: like asking them what their what their drive is, what
Speaker 1: their motivation is. Um It kind of gives us a
Speaker 1: feel for how much they love football along with you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you you you ask about their family, you ask
Speaker 1: about football questions we put the tape on. I just
Speaker 1: love seeing a combination of that and certain moments in
Speaker 1: the interview when the guy really lights up and you
Speaker 1: can really see his passion, and then some guys are
Speaker 1: just less, less emotional, you know, lower lower energy, and
Speaker 1: more monotone throughout. So I think that not that we
Speaker 1: would eliminate a guy that that was that way, but
Speaker 1: I think I think it does tell you a lot
Speaker 1: about it. I wish I could boil it down to
Speaker 1: one specific question, but if I had to pick one,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of what their drive is. We're talking
Speaker 1: to the Bengals director of college scouting, Mike Potts. In
Speaker 1: racing years, you drafted a lot of captains. You talked
Speaker 1: about the love of the game, guys that enjoy the grind.
Speaker 1: Has it been by design that you've drafted so many
Speaker 1: captains and guys that seem to fit that description or
Speaker 1: is that just the way it's worked out. I think
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of both. We're not going out
Speaker 1: looking specifically for captains, but the type of guys were
Speaker 1: looking for typically end up being captains, So it kind
Speaker 1: of works hand in hand that way in terms of
Speaker 1: we end up with the captain at the end of
Speaker 1: our process because the guys that we're looking for, they're
Speaker 1: displaying those traits at their college and then in turn
Speaker 1: being you know that they earned the respect of their
Speaker 1: their coaches and their teammates, and then they're voted to
Speaker 1: be captains at their school. So we're not specifically looking
Speaker 1: for captains, because sometimes there are cases where guys are
Speaker 1: undeserved to be a captain at their college. They just
Speaker 1: get voted, you know, because they're the best player, or
Speaker 1: maybe they're the starting quarterback and the coaches want them
Speaker 1: to be a leader and a quote unquote captain. M
Speaker 1: But it's but they're not necessarily a great leader, and
Speaker 1: they maybe didn't necessarily earn that captaincy. So it it's
Speaker 1: not something that we seek out, but a lot of
Speaker 1: times it ends up happening once we go through our process.
Speaker 1: So back in twenty twenty, when you met with Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: somebody who was in the room that day said to
Speaker 1: me later, it was the most impressive combine interview that
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. What stood out to you about that
Speaker 1: initial meeting with Joe? Yeah, I would agree he was
Speaker 1: very impressive. I had done a lot of work on
Speaker 1: scouting him throughout the previous couple of years to that,
Speaker 1: so I think I had a good feel for what
Speaker 1: that was going to be like. But you never know
Speaker 1: until you meet the guy for the first time and
Speaker 1: look him in the eye. So it may have been
Speaker 1: a little bit more informative for the other people in
Speaker 1: the room. But he struck you exactly the way that
Speaker 1: his staff members at LSU and people we talked to
Speaker 1: it Ohio State, people we talked to even prior to that.
Speaker 1: The way everybody raved about him and described him, it
Speaker 1: aligned with what we saw when we met him in person.
Speaker 1: So it's always good when those two line up. Like
Speaker 1: I said previously, sometimes it doesn't always align. There's different
Speaker 1: opinions on guys and you meet a guy and you're like,
Speaker 1: this guy's completely different than what he was described by
Speaker 1: some people. But with Joe, it all lined up, and
Speaker 1: you know, everything that I think we've seen in Cincinnati
Speaker 1: in terms of his leadership, his drive, his intelligence, um
Speaker 1: really everything that he brings to the table, and everything
Speaker 1: that he's been for us in Cincinnati. UM, I think
Speaker 1: I think you could see some of those traits. Even
Speaker 1: though it's only an eighteen minute an interview. You you
Speaker 1: got a glimpse of that U in meeting him here
Speaker 1: in Indy. When you put on the tape. Is it
Speaker 1: their tape? Is it Bengals tape? What are you asking
Speaker 1: them to look at we put on their tape. We
Speaker 1: want them to talk ball, We want them to tell
Speaker 1: us what they know football wise. It's it's stuff that
Speaker 1: they've been doing the last three to five years with
Speaker 1: most of most of these guys, and they should be
Speaker 1: really familiar with the terminology. Tell us what you're doing
Speaker 1: on this play? Hey, coach me up here, if I'm
Speaker 1: if I'm the right guard on this play, coach me
Speaker 1: up in your scheme? M what are they asking you
Speaker 1: to do? So it's it's it's all their tape. It
Speaker 1: could be from any point throughout their career, freshman all
Speaker 1: the way up to to senior year. And there's it's
Speaker 1: we're restricted for time, so sometimes we may only get
Speaker 1: to five to ten clips. But then it kind of
Speaker 1: gives us a direction to go later in the process
Speaker 1: in terms of if we meet them at their pro
Speaker 1: day and we can sit down for an hour and
Speaker 1: watch tape with them, or we do a zoom interview
Speaker 1: with him, or we bring them into our facility, it
Speaker 1: kind of is able to point us in the right
Speaker 1: direction for the questions that we still need to answer
Speaker 1: in terms of our football intelligence. A couple more questions
Speaker 1: for Mike Potch. You've been with a Bengal since twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: I believe working very closely with Duke Tobin. What do
Speaker 1: you admire and respect about Duke. Duke's great to work for.
Speaker 1: He doesn't micromanage us whatsoever. I think he's very even
Speaker 1: keeled in his personality. I think he's a you know,
Speaker 1: a guy who is just looking to do what's best
Speaker 1: for the organization. And I really respect that about him.
Speaker 1: Love working underneath of him. Um. He's taught me a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, just about scouting, about the whole process, you know,
Speaker 1: from from the salary cap thought side of things, some
Speaker 1: of the analytics things that we do, you know, pro
Speaker 1: and college scouting. And he's he's given me a great
Speaker 1: opportunity here to put a ton on my plate. You know,
Speaker 1: my my job duties may be more focus mainly on
Speaker 1: college scouting, but that may only be seventy percent of
Speaker 1: what I do. There's a lot of other things that
Speaker 1: he's given me to put on my plate and that
Speaker 1: helps me get better, um, and develop more experience in
Speaker 1: different areas to you know, be able to add more
Speaker 1: value to the organization. So I really really love the
Speaker 1: way he has everything is set up here. And again
Speaker 1: he's he's a great guy to work under. The draft
Speaker 1: is a very imprecise science, but the Bengals have been
Speaker 1: on at least I think a bit of a role
Speaker 1: of late. What do you think that you and the
Speaker 1: entire Cincinnati staff have done well bringing in the right
Speaker 1: people character wise, And there's different phases to it. You
Speaker 1: talked about the interviews, you know, we we've talked about
Speaker 1: scouting and talking to people at their colleges, you know,
Speaker 1: in their in their life growing up before college, their
Speaker 1: family background. So you just have to put it all together,
Speaker 1: you have to. We have a we have a lot
Speaker 1: of hard workers on our staff that really embrace the process,
Speaker 1: are really detail oriented and thorough in everything that they
Speaker 1: do from an evaluation standpoint. And then really at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I think it's not overthinking it.
Speaker 1: We're looking for good players. Everybody's looking for good players.
Speaker 1: But sometimes you may overvalue a certain a certain trait
Speaker 1: whatever whatever it could be speed, it could be size,
Speaker 1: you know, it could be intelligence. I think at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we're looking for the guys that
Speaker 1: that can bring the most well rounded um games to
Speaker 1: Cincinnati in all aspects, it's not you know, it's easier
Speaker 1: said than done, especially picking late in the drafts as
Speaker 1: we have been here the past couple of years. It's
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna make it a little bit more difficult,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna make our process that much more important.
Speaker 1: But um, at the end of the day, and I
Speaker 1: don't think it's it's rocket science. It's it's uh, we're
Speaker 1: evaluating football players and uh, and we're not going to
Speaker 1: overthink it. But but I do think we've done a
Speaker 1: good job, and I at the same time, I think
Speaker 1: I still think there is room for improvement, to continue
Speaker 1: to get better with with our processes and continue to
Speaker 1: just to just bring in the right type of players
Speaker 1: that we want. Again as people and as football players,
Speaker 1: these are busy, long days. You are running on coffee
Speaker 1: and adrenaline. I appreciate you taking some bud time with
Speaker 1: me and best of luck when the draft approaches. Thanks
Speaker 1: a lot, Dan, I appreciate it. The Bengals Booth podcast
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Bengals Picks and Ultimate Bengals.
Speaker 1: They're free to play with tickets and signed merchandise up
Speaker 1: for grabs. Find both inside the Bengals app. As I've
Speaker 1: mentioned before on this podcast, I am a big fan
Speaker 1: of mock draft simulate. If you're not familiar with what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, you can find good ones for free
Speaker 1: at Pro Football Focus dot com and Pro Football Network
Speaker 1: dot com. The Mock Draft simulator allows you to play
Speaker 1: Bengals GM for as many rounds of the draft as
Speaker 1: you want. The simulator begins making picks in order, and
Speaker 1: then when it's your turn, you can decide whether you
Speaker 1: want to wheel and deal or go ahead and make
Speaker 1: the Bengals pick. I've been doing three round mock drafts
Speaker 1: for several years and it's a great way to learn
Speaker 1: some of the players that are likely to be available
Speaker 1: to the Bengals. So this week at the combine, I
Speaker 1: came up with a fun idea. I asked several NFL
Speaker 1: draft experts to join me in front of my laptop
Speaker 1: and make the Bengals first three picks by using the
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus mock Draft simulator. Up first, Dane Bruegler,
Speaker 1: who covers the draft for the Athletic All Right, we
Speaker 1: fired up the PF mock draft simulator with my favorite
Speaker 1: draft guru, Dane Brugler from The Athletic. Always great to
Speaker 1: catch up with Dane at the combine. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: be allowed to make any trades. We don't know how
Speaker 1: accurate this is going to be based on your board,
Speaker 1: but in any case, I'm going to hit start and
Speaker 1: when the Bengals pop up at number twenty eight, we'll
Speaker 1: look at the options available, we'll see which guy's just
Speaker 1: got picked, and we'll see what you would do. So
Speaker 1: here we go. All right, the picks are flying off
Speaker 1: the board. This goes very very quickly. We are at
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, twenty eight. Dalton kin Kaid, who has
Speaker 1: frequently been mocked to the Bengals, just went at twenty
Speaker 1: seven to the Buffalo Bills. I'll show you a few
Speaker 1: of the previous picks. Yea Mozzi Smith at the board
Speaker 1: of twenty six of the Cowboys. That's interesting, Zay Flowers
Speaker 1: at twenty three of the Vikings. Now we're going over
Speaker 1: to the guys still available side right, So we have
Speaker 1: Collijah Cans. This is the best available Cordin at PFF.
Speaker 1: So we've got Collige Kanci, Dante Banks, drinks way too early.
Speaker 1: Fron Jack Carter Nolan's myth who had such a big
Speaker 1: workout last night at the Combine. Okay, Anton Harrison, that's
Speaker 1: a good name to keep on the radar. Luke Musgrave
Speaker 1: who they might name rename the combine after him when
Speaker 1: he's done with it. You had him going to the
Speaker 1: Bengals in your most present mock. I did, and and
Speaker 1: you know, I think that got mixed reaction from Bengals fans.
Speaker 1: But uh, he's a weapon, He's he's a really athletic player,
Speaker 1: so I think he should at least be in that conversation.
Speaker 1: H B Gigi Larry. I think that makes uh if
Speaker 1: if we're talking about best player, he's someone that you know,
Speaker 1: you always try to get strength on the edges, even
Speaker 1: if it's not your number one need. So I like that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I keep going back to the top and
Speaker 1: there's a corner there, Deontay Banks, who if they were
Speaker 1: to go in that direction, Uh if if they wanted
Speaker 1: to look at a cornerback at that point, I think
Speaker 1: Deontay Banks would be a really good value. This is
Speaker 1: a player that throwing the Ohio State tape and watching,
Speaker 1: you know, cover Mervin Harrison. That was a fun battle
Speaker 1: to watch between those two big athletic He covers well
Speaker 1: to the top of routes if as long as he
Speaker 1: trusts his technique. He is an NFL starter and a
Speaker 1: guy that I think you feel comfortable leaving on an
Speaker 1: island in the NFL. So, Jonte Banks, that's awfully appealing there,
Speaker 1: twenty eight. I think that might be the direction I
Speaker 1: would go all right with the twenty eighth pick in
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three NFL Draft. The Athletics draft guru
Speaker 1: Dame Bruegler has selected Maryland cornerback Tante Banks. So here
Speaker 1: are some things to know about Maryland cornerback Deonte Banks.
Speaker 1: He's six feet tall, one hundred ninety seven pounds and
Speaker 1: ran a four three five forty at the combine to
Speaker 1: rank third fastest among the cornerbacks. His forty two inch
Speaker 1: vertical leap was number one in their most recent mock drafts.
Speaker 1: ESPN's Mel Kiper and the NFL Networks Daniel Jeremiah both
Speaker 1: had Banks going twenty third to the Kings. Now time
Speaker 1: to move on to the Bengals second pick, number sixty overall.
Speaker 1: Now the draft simulator will zip to the Bengals pick
Speaker 1: in the second round. Okay, we'll take a look at
Speaker 1: some of the most recent selections. Jamie Robinson him off
Speaker 1: to the Bills safety from Florida State. Matthew berg Ern
Speaker 1: tackle guard for the Cowboys at fifty eight, which that
Speaker 1: would have been a nice pick for the Bengals. Josh
Speaker 1: Down to the Giants, Steve of Vila to the Jags,
Speaker 1: Big Dwan Jones from Ohio State. Your second round pick
Speaker 1: in your most meat recent draft to the right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so okay, let's look go ahead and look at the
Speaker 1: best available at this point. Then Andre Carter is still there,
Speaker 1: not surprising. Nathaniel Dell still a little early for him.
Speaker 1: Dan Henley, he's on his way up. I like that.
Speaker 1: Oh at a barre from Northwestern who unbelievable combine before.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a human being two eighty pounds or
Speaker 1: more run as four or five forty until last night,
Speaker 1: so I thought to be the fastest ever by a
Speaker 1: guy to at the combiner. Unbelievable. Um. Now the question is, okay,
Speaker 1: how do you Because he was great at the Singer Bowl,
Speaker 1: great here at the combine because it was the positional
Speaker 1: stuff was great too. So how do you apply that
Speaker 1: now to the evaluation? How how does his grade change? How?
Speaker 1: You know, how do you see it on tape? So
Speaker 1: that's what teams are kind of scrambling to figure out.
Speaker 1: I mean, you love it for the kid. It's good
Speaker 1: for him. He's gonna go much higher than we thought
Speaker 1: in December. But uh, you know what point do you
Speaker 1: take him? Um? Okay, Luke Whippler from Ohio states a
Speaker 1: little early for him. Carl Brooks from Blowing Green and
Speaker 1: Nick Herbig interesting kind of a hybrid rusher. Sam Laporta
Speaker 1: from Iowa I like quite a bit. Um the Iowa
Speaker 1: tight end. Just a rock solid player. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: At a barre. Uh, you know he gives you a
Speaker 1: little versatility, can be that three technique? Can you know,
Speaker 1: can rush off the edge. Um, he's got a different
Speaker 1: body type because he's a little shorter, but he's got
Speaker 1: their four inch arms. So let's go without a bari here.
Speaker 1: Strengthen the defensive line both inside outside. You've got someone
Speaker 1: that you can mold. And you know, you look at
Speaker 1: the Bengals draft last year with a guy like you know,
Speaker 1: Dax's Hill in the first round. You know who you
Speaker 1: pick for the future at a barre is a guy
Speaker 1: that's going to help you right away, but also a
Speaker 1: pick for the future on that defensive line. Now some
Speaker 1: more details on Northwestern defensive lineman at a Tommy Wah
Speaker 1: at a barre he's six two, two hundred eighty two
Speaker 1: pounds and ran a four four nine forty with a
Speaker 1: thirty seven and a half inch vertical. The previous record
Speaker 1: for the fastest forty time at the Combine by a
Speaker 1: player two hundred eighty plus pounds was four to six
Speaker 1: to eight by somebody named Aaron Donald. Again at a barre,
Speaker 1: ran a four four nine. His stats weren't off the
Speaker 1: charts at Northwestern, with five sacks last year and four
Speaker 1: and a half the year before. Pro Football Focus has
Speaker 1: him ranked forty fifth. It's top one hundred board and
Speaker 1: that came out before the Combine. Now time for the
Speaker 1: Bengals next pick number ninety two. Overall, we are just
Speaker 1: about at Cincinnati at pick number ninety two. Alight, first,
Speaker 1: we'll see the guys that went just before the Bengals. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Devin eh Chain to the Bills, I don't you know,
Speaker 1: and maybe they could have taken a running back. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll see how that plays out. Tucker Craft, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite players in the draft. Southdkota stayed at ninety
Speaker 1: to the Cowboy, that's a tremendous value there. Um Tank
Speaker 1: Dell Houston receiver, the Giants, Sydney Brown, Illinois safety, decent value.
Speaker 1: There's what was the last time or the less tackle
Speaker 1: drafted here? Let's see what's a because the tackle class
Speaker 1: really thins out on day two. And you know, we're
Speaker 1: seeing this here, you're scrolling not a lot of tackles
Speaker 1: off the board. Um, okay, Tyler Steen at sixty sixty,
Speaker 1: that's and that's possible. It might be an example of
Speaker 1: because tackle there's so few tackles. Uh, you know, once
Speaker 1: you get to day two, So a guy like Tyler
Speaker 1: Steen maybe gets pushed up a little bit. I think
Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty rich for him. But you gotta do
Speaker 1: what you gotta do. So that that's interesting that how
Speaker 1: the Bengals are sitting here with what's available. Should I
Speaker 1: filter the remaining guys and look at tackles? Would you
Speaker 1: like me to take a shot at that? All right?
Speaker 1: So we are hitting that little tackle button here, all right?
Speaker 1: So at this point, Blake Freeland, Luke Haggaroof I like
Speaker 1: Bradon Daniels. Brandon Daniel is a good player. UM, I
Speaker 1: think this is right around the range where you start
Speaker 1: thinking about Bradon Daniels. Carter Warren maybe as well, But
Speaker 1: the rest of these tackles are not guys that you're
Speaker 1: getting excited about here in the third round. UM, I
Speaker 1: did see a tight end that caught my eye there,
Speaker 1: and if you were to be available at this point,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you're passing UM talking about Sam
Speaker 1: Laporta from Iowa, who, in my opinion is and this
Speaker 1: is a really deep tight in class. And that might
Speaker 1: be the reason why you don't draft a tight end
Speaker 1: in the first round, because you feel good about who's
Speaker 1: gonna be there for your second, third, fourth round, and
Speaker 1: case in point right here, late third round, Sam Laporta
Speaker 1: is here. Luke's schoonmaker I think is a third round player.
Speaker 1: He's still available, but Sam Laporta, I'm not passing up
Speaker 1: this value. Give me Laporta, who you know. You talk
Speaker 1: to scouts and they'll say he's maybe not quite as
Speaker 1: athletic as a Noah Fan or t J. Hawkinson, but
Speaker 1: he's got the grit of George Kittle talking about those
Speaker 1: Iowa tight ends, so Sam Laporta pick ninety two, loving
Speaker 1: that value there. The Bengals reportedly met with Sam Laporta
Speaker 1: at the combine. Iowa listed him at six four, two
Speaker 1: hundred forty nine pounds, and he had a very productive
Speaker 1: career with the Hawkeyes, finishing with one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: three catches for nearly eighteen hundred yards. Among Iowa tight
Speaker 1: ends all time, Laporta ranks first in catches and second
Speaker 1: in yards, and he was a team captain last year.
Speaker 1: After you do a mock draft on the Pro Football
Speaker 1: Focus simulator, PF gives you a grade. Let's find out
Speaker 1: how Dane Brogler did. Here's how PF has graded your
Speaker 1: picks A in round one, B plus in round two
Speaker 1: as in round three. For an A overall grade, you're
Speaker 1: the highest highest anyone's graded so far. I'll take that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't you know, the grade means little,
Speaker 1: But if that's the three players the Bengals come back
Speaker 1: with picking later in each round, I think you got
Speaker 1: to feel great about that. You got guys that can
Speaker 1: help right away but also building for the future. So
Speaker 1: I like that. Haul a lot for Cincinnati. This was fun.
Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time. Keep up the great work.
Speaker 1: Can't wait to see the Bible. All right, thank you,
Speaker 1: I said the Bible, I meant the Beast. That's the
Speaker 1: name of Dane's annual draft guide, which is the most
Speaker 1: comprehensive of any more three round mock drafts using the
Speaker 1: PF simulator in the weeks to come. On this podcast
Speaker 1: with Charles Davis from the NFL Network, Pete Prisco from CBS,
Speaker 1: and Austin Gale from The Ringer. That's going to do
Speaker 1: it for this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast brought
Speaker 1: to you by Cattering Health, the official healthcare provider of
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Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find us I'm Dan Horde. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Bengals Booth podcast