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Speaker 1: Hello, They're happy Thursday, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast, our third for the week. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: am wrapping up my visit to the financial capital of

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Speaker 1: the world here in New York City. Gotten quite a

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Speaker 1: bit done, learned quite a bit at these various industry

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Speaker 1: summits that I'm learning both on digital media and in

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Speaker 1: the world of investment, in the world of the media space.

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Speaker 1: Just wanted to be a bit transparent about what I'm

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Speaker 1: up to here. My guest today for those that are

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Speaker 1: listening on the extended full download, is Mike McFall. I've

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Speaker 1: known Mike forever. He was a source of mind back

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Speaker 1: during the Obama years. After that, I recruited him to

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Speaker 1: become an NBC News analyst on all things having to

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Speaker 1: do with Russia. I remember at the time not everybody

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Speaker 1: thought it was going to be a big deal story,

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Speaker 1: and I was pushed real hard. They'll needless to say,

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Speaker 1: Russia became a big deal story, and McFall became a

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Speaker 1: household name to many of you that watch NBC News

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Speaker 1: or MSNBC over the years. Mike's out with a great

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Speaker 1: new book, really a book of scholar that is both

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Speaker 1: sort of scholarly history, but important in the moment we're

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Speaker 1: living in now, and it's essentially the the authoritarianism versus

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Speaker 1: versus the democrats. Essentially, those that are looking to you

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Speaker 1: know that this is the new divide in the world.

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Speaker 1: And of course most of our conversation was how new

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Speaker 1: is this? And we spend a good chunk of time

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Speaker 1: talking about a topic that I've had I've discussed with

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Speaker 1: you guys here, which is how much of the Cold

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Speaker 1: War was an outlier period, not just an American history,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps world history. So for those of you interested

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Speaker 1: in that type of discussion, I think you will enjoy

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Speaker 1: this interview. Mike's just a wealth of knowledge. But we

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Speaker 1: dabble in just about every hemisphere. We talk Venezuela, we

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Speaker 1: talk Russia and Ukraine, we talk China, we talk NATO,

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Speaker 1: we talk about the need for an Asian NATO. We

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Speaker 1: dabble a bit in the Middle East. It is another

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Speaker 1: world tour of sorts on that front. But you know

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Speaker 1: that the question is what is America's role And if

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Speaker 1: the small d democrats want to win the argument around

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Speaker 1: the world that this is the better governing model, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to come to an agreement in this country

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Speaker 1: that we believe it's the best governing model, and the

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Speaker 1: biggest retreat, frankly when it comes to democracy around the world,

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Speaker 1: has been America's leadership promoting it. The Trump administration is

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Speaker 1: selectively pro democracy. They're pro democracy in Venezuela. They're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily pro democracy in the Middle East. You know, there

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Speaker 1: is definitely a if you're an ally in you're a democracy,

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Speaker 1: We're all for it. If you're a democracy, but it

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Speaker 1: is not very friendly to this administration. We're not always

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Speaker 1: necessarily the administration doesn't necessarily speak in that way. So

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Speaker 1: it's look, it's been unusual to have an American president

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Speaker 1: that is essentially not knee jerk pro democracy. He is

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Speaker 1: not somebody and we you know, this is something we've

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Speaker 1: not experienced as a mature democracy where our leader is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily in favor of it, that he doesn't mind

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Speaker 1: dabbling in, you know, in some form of authoritarianism, meaning

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Speaker 1: you know, I alone can fix it that mindset, and

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Speaker 1: we know that there is some appetite for it. Not

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Speaker 1: everybody believes in a small l small liberal democracy. There

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Speaker 1: are some people on the right these days that believe

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Speaker 1: that wants something that is more ill role democracy, but

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Speaker 1: on my terms type of mindset, think hungry on that front.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it's a terrific conversation. I think you'll enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Before I get to it, I actually have a notebook

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Speaker 1: of items I want to get to sort of I'm

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Speaker 1: going to sit here and say, have one giant theme

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Speaker 1: to me. It's stuff that I want to alert you

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Speaker 1: guys to that I want to surface sort of things

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Speaker 1: that I think are percolating, that are coming around the corner.

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Speaker 1: But we're going to go ahead and start with a

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Speaker 1: quick update on the shutdown. I say that because I don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's really nothing to update. As my friend

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Speaker 1: Brendan Buck tweeted our early on Wednesday, he said, there

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Speaker 1: was not a single story I think it was in

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal of the Washington Post about any

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Speaker 1: update on the shutdown, and it was just it's it

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Speaker 1: is not having a impact in the larger media space.

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Speaker 1: And again it goes back to one reason. You know,

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Speaker 1: we are now organized. Whether that's good or I'd say

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Speaker 1: this is a good thing, this is just the reality.

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Speaker 1: But the entire political media ecosystem is really organized around Trump,

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Speaker 1: and Trump's just not engaged at all. In this shutdown.

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Speaker 1: My friend George Condon, who works over at National Journal.

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Speaker 1: He's been there a long time, long enough that he

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Speaker 1: and I were colleagues at National Journal before I left

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Speaker 1: to go to NBC. He did some terrific analysis on

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Speaker 1: the lack of engagement by this president on the shutdown issue,

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Speaker 1: and he compared it to the big shutdown that happened

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Speaker 1: in his first term and how engaged he was in there.

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Speaker 1: So I want to read a little bit from Condon's

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Speaker 1: story here in National Journal this week. Since the current

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Speaker 1: shutdown began in October one, Condon writes, Trump has met

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Speaker 1: in the Oval Office with the leaders of Canada and Finland.

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Speaker 1: He's traveled to Israel in Egypt, and he's meeting this

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Speaker 1: week with the presidents of Argentina and Ukraine. He has

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Speaker 1: not met with any Democratic Party leaders. While the trip

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Speaker 1: Israel in Egypt made a lot of sense no matter what,

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Speaker 1: it is worth noting that Trump is also planning later

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Speaker 1: this month to go to Malaysia, South Korea, and Japan.

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Speaker 1: These are more routine trips. Their meetings with these various

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Speaker 1: international associations at the United States dabbles in the Asia

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Speaker 1: Pacific Economic Conference Apec. It's known as the Association of

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Speaker 1: South Seats Asian Nations. These are all places that the

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Speaker 1: United States likes to be a part of. They're basically

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Speaker 1: collections of Asian countries that want to put a check

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Speaker 1: on China in some form or another. What's interesting is

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Speaker 1: that these summits always take place around this time of year,

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Speaker 1: and if we were in a government shutdown, both Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton Barack Obama didn't go to these events if they

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Speaker 1: were in the middle of a shutdown. Both of them

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Speaker 1: thought it was a bad political look if they were

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Speaker 1: continuing the business of the country overseas, spending money overseas

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Speaker 1: while people weren't getting paid there. And Donald Trump himself

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Speaker 1: during and this is where Condon had some terrific analysis.

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Speaker 1: In the thirty five days between December twenty second, twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen and the reopening of the government on January twenty fifth,

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Donald Trump tweeted Back then he was tweeting

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Speaker 1: there was no truth social he hadn't been deplatformed from

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Speaker 1: Twitter yet. He tweeted thirty seven times about the shutdown,

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Speaker 1: and the post projected a mix of frustration and sense

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Speaker 1: of urgency. That was the thirty five days. So far,

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Speaker 1: we've been in this shutdown for fourteen days. Trump has

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Speaker 1: posted only seven times on the shutdown on truth social

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Speaker 1: and he's only posted twice since the second day, so

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Speaker 1: twelve of those were in the first essentially thirty six hours.

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Speaker 1: But since then he has posted thirty two times on

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Speaker 1: foreign policy, sixteen times in the Middle East, five times

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Speaker 1: on the Nobel Peace Prize, eleven times on his grievances

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Speaker 1: with the FBI, the Russi of Probe, and Jim Comy.

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Speaker 1: It goes back to what I've said now for I

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Speaker 1: don't know three straight podcast openings, which is this is

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Speaker 1: going nowhere until Democrats find a way to engage Trump.

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Speaker 1: The Congressional Republicans cannot negotiate without Trump in the room.

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Speaker 1: They have no standing, right, Mike Johnson has no He

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Speaker 1: cannot do this without Donald Trump. He has never been

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Speaker 1: able to pass a vote without the help of Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump among House Republicans. So there is, you know, the

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Speaker 1: only entity to negotiate with is the White House, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that Democrats can't get Trump to engage. Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to engage whatever it is this and again

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Speaker 1: I will say the same thing that I said twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours ago. Every day now that this goes is

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Speaker 1: one day less that this becomes politically you know, I

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Speaker 1: know that Democrats think they've won something out of this

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Speaker 1: so far, and I think that you can. I think

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Speaker 1: it's clear that they've made healthcare a bit more front

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Speaker 1: and center on the minds and we're now seeing other

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Speaker 1: reasons why healthcare. You're going to see the premium notices

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Speaker 1: go out in November first. That will get some attention.

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Speaker 1: It's why I think actually that the Democrats probably made

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Speaker 1: a tactical mistake in triggering this shutdown when they did.

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Speaker 1: I think they would have been better off triggering the

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Speaker 1: shutdown after those premium hike notices went out in November first,

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Speaker 1: not before. But the problem they have now is every

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Speaker 1: day this goes on, more damage is done to the

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Speaker 1: federal government. Russell Voyd fires more people, targets more blue areas.

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Speaker 1: I want to get to that in a minute, and

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Speaker 1: Democrats may start to lose sort of the momentum that

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Speaker 1: they believe they were getting on the healthcare issue. Again,

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Speaker 1: Democrats are terrible about declaring victory and they don't know

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Speaker 1: how to ever act like they've won something. And when

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Speaker 1: they're actually they're actually winning this argument. But the longer

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Speaker 1: they go they will not they will lose whatever they've

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Speaker 1: gained here. And you can kind of tell they're kind

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Speaker 1: of flailing here. I don't think Schumer knows how to

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Speaker 1: get tri in the room. That's clearly a problem. Jefferies doesn't.

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Speaker 1: So if they're the two lead negotiators here, it's in

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Speaker 1: that sense, if you can't get in the room to

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Speaker 1: negotiate with the person you have to negotiate, you're not

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Speaker 1: You're not doing a very good job leading here. So

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Speaker 1: this is I don't think this is going to age. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll see, but again Trump's not engaged. That's a huge issue.

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Speaker 1: But I want to point out something this sort of

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Speaker 1: the way that Trump administration is targeting things and and

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Speaker 1: sort of how messed up their math is. So we've

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Speaker 1: seen that Russell Russell Voyd Omb he's trying to essentially

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Speaker 1: cut programs or cancel funding or suspend funding, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's targeting blue areas, right, They're targeting the democratic agencies,

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Speaker 1: the democratic this prominent geographic areas they've targeted, or you know,

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Speaker 1: funding for things in and around LA County, funding for

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Speaker 1: things in and around Chicago and funding for things in

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Speaker 1: and around New York. Well, one of the things I'd

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Speaker 1: love to remind and I just did a data deep

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Speaker 1: dive on this. So Donald Trump received one point one

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Speaker 1: eight nine million votes in La County. Okay, Yes, Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris got one point three million more than him. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it is a blue county. But the raw number of

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Speaker 1: Republican votes that Donald Trump received in LA County one

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Speaker 1: point one eight nine million. That is more raw vote

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Speaker 1: than he received in fifteen states that he carried Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada,

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Speaker 1: North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

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Speaker 1: There are more Trump voters that they're punishing in LA

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Speaker 1: County than any of those fifteen states that I talked about.

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Speaker 1: This administration's inability to understand that they're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: the president of the entire country. When they start nitpicking

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Speaker 1: at quote unquote blue areas or blue states, they're punishing

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that supported them, a lot of

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Speaker 1: their own supporters who have it comes across as if

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Speaker 1: they have no respect for the system and no respect

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Speaker 1: for some of their own voters. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: in Cook County he received over five one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty thousand votes. Well, in case you're wondering, that's more

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Speaker 1: raw vote. All right, he got crushed in Cook County.

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Speaker 1: It is a blue county, but his raw vote total

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Speaker 1: was more than the raw votes he got out of Alaska,

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Speaker 1: out of Idaho, out of Montana, out of Nebraska, out

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Speaker 1: of North Dakota, out of South Dakota, out of Utah,

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Speaker 1: and out of Wyoming. That's eight states. It's it is,

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Speaker 1: it is sort of. It really is a bit self defeating.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, you want to add more states

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Speaker 1: to that. He received over eight one hundred thousand votes

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Speaker 1: in the five boroughs of New York City when you

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Speaker 1: put that together, and that would mean more votes than

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Speaker 1: what he got in Alaska, more votes than what he

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Speaker 1: got in Kansas, more votes than when he got in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: more votes than what he got in West Virginia. So

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Speaker 1: you see the point I'm making here. This sort of

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Speaker 1: what they think the own the Libs move is right.

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Speaker 1: They're just attacking hundreds of thousands of their own voters.

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Speaker 1: Now maybe they think, oh well, this will teach those

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Speaker 1: Trump voters from living in these blue areas, I guess,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they're trying to punish the Democratic voters and

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Speaker 1: get whatever they think they're accomplishing. They're not accomplishing with this,

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Speaker 1: So it is this is this may unfortunately end up

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Speaker 1: motivating Democrats to keep sticking this out because they it

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Speaker 1: is triggering the Trump administration to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: dumb things. Here the House Republicans are behaving bizarrely. Here

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's inability to swear in a duly elected member

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Speaker 1: of Congress in a now certified election down from Arizona

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Speaker 1: at Alita Grialva, the daughter of Raoul Garalva, who passed

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Speaker 1: away a few months ago. I have to tell you,

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Speaker 1: I am not the quickest person to jump down a

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory hole. Don't get me wrong. I' let me

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Speaker 1: a good conspiracy theory. But it's hard to now Now

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Speaker 1: I understand why all the Epstein folks are saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what are they afraid of? Are they really afraid of

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Speaker 1: seeing this vote forced? I mean, it's a head obviously,

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's trying to prevent putting Republicans on the record

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Speaker 1: on these Epstein files, right, they don't, And that's there's

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Speaker 1: no doubt there's something here where Republican leadership is petrified

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Speaker 1: of forcing because guess what if the Epstein vote does

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Speaker 1: hit the floor of the House, it's going to get

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Speaker 1: four hundred votes because you're gonna have all the Democrats

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Speaker 1: vote for it, and you're going to have at least

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Speaker 1: one hundred if not more, Republicans vote for it because

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Speaker 1: they don't want to be on the record it somehow

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Speaker 1: not voting it. And it's actually a safe vote because

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Speaker 1: the Senate isn't ever going to you know, this is

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Speaker 1: just simply a vote in the House. So it is

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Speaker 1: the only motivation I can see if Epstein really is

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Speaker 1: the motivate, and I don't know any other reason other

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Speaker 1: than Epstein at this point, Right, Johnson is really sort

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Speaker 1: of losing his rationale. He keeps changing his rationale, so

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Speaker 1: it's making it's making even the biggest skeptic like me think, wow,

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Speaker 1: you guys are this paranoid about the Epstein files vote unbelievable?

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Speaker 1: So what is the paranoia? It is about a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of Republicans not wanting to upset Donald Trump, who

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Speaker 1: doesn't want this vote to happen. That's pretty clear. And

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Speaker 1: we know many of these House Republicans have been so

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Speaker 1: public in their demand for the Epstein files to be

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Speaker 1: released that they that they cannot go back to there.

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Speaker 1: They're afraid of going back to their constituents and not

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Speaker 1: having to do that. So it is a it is

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Speaker 1: it is fascinating to watch this. I do think this

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Speaker 1: is what happens right the shutdowns. It's sort of like

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Speaker 1: when you may think you know how to start one,

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Speaker 1: but nobody it is amazing how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: end one, even though logically, and again this goes back

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Speaker 1: to a rant from two weeks ago, the government should

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Speaker 1: never be allowed to be put in this situation. And

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Speaker 1: the fact that the government just decides that it is

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Speaker 1: going to abide by this absurdity that we somehow aren't

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Speaker 1: going to pay our bills if there's a funding dispute

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Speaker 1: in Congress is no way to run It's no way

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Speaker 1: to run a country, it's no way to run a company,

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Speaker 1: there's no way to run a household. No rational person

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Speaker 1: would behave this way, but unfortunately Washington is filled with

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Speaker 1: the irrational. The big thing. One of the big moments

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Speaker 1: this weekend we're going to learn a lot a little

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Speaker 1: bit about sort of language and all this stuff is

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Speaker 1: the No King's protest. There's been some really disgusting language.

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Speaker 1: The Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson described the planned protests.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it will end before the Hate America

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Speaker 1: rally on the Mall on Saturday, where all the Marxist

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Speaker 1: and Antifa people and all the people who hate Trump

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Speaker 1: and hate America will be there. This idea that if

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Speaker 1: you don't, if you protest something Donald Trump does, you

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Speaker 1: hate America is the single most undemocratic thing you can

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Speaker 1: actually accuse a fellow American of doing. The whole point

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Speaker 1: of being in America is the right to disagree. We

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Speaker 1: founded this country on a fuck you Britain man. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to apologize for my but this is

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Speaker 1: one of those that this is who we are. We

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Speaker 1: have the right to flip the bird at people. We

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Speaker 1: have the right to protest. It is smack dab in

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Speaker 1: the First Amendment. And one of the dumber arguments that

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Speaker 1: you hear people say is well somebody paid for a protest, Well,

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Speaker 1: who gives a shit? Sorry, I get that. In this stuff,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just this is do you know nothing about

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Speaker 1: the founding of this country? When you sit here and

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Speaker 1: uh and essentially accuse anybody of protesting their government as

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Speaker 1: being an American, It is the most American thing you

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Speaker 1: can do, The most patriotic thing you can do, is

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Speaker 1: to protest your government, because in this country it is

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Speaker 1: it is a right, not a privilege. It is a

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Speaker 1: right written into our constitution. So the behavior I'm old

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Speaker 1: enough to remember when these are the free speech, free

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Speaker 1: speech absolutionists, which then brings me to the JD Vance

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Speaker 1: defense of those awful telegram chat techs that were released

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Speaker 1: on from the young Republicans. The whole thing is such

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Speaker 1: a weird story. I mean, first of all, it is this.

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Speaker 1: Here's what's troubling, right, that these young Republicans believe there's

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Speaker 1: a they've been given a permission slip by the MAGA

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Speaker 1: movement and Trump to just casually talk about gas chambers

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Speaker 1: and Nazis and all this hateful rhetoric. What's really troubling

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Speaker 1: is that these young Republicans think that this is okay

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Speaker 1: in the new Trump dominated Republican Party. We are in

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Speaker 1: this moment, right, And I connected back to the incredibly

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Speaker 1: rude behavior of the golf fans at Bethpage Black. This

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Speaker 1: is we are culturally. Donald Trump has culturally changed us,

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Speaker 1: and there are many people who think the best way

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Speaker 1: to become Trump is to behave like these hooligans did.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting here is how they're all there's this weird

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Speaker 1: Apparently one of the guys involved says, this is part

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Speaker 1: of a long conspiracy theory. This is what the political

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Speaker 1: article noted, and this gets it to the bizarre world

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Speaker 1: of MAGA and this, I think you know how the

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Speaker 1: whole lower lumer nonsense works. So one of the Young

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Speaker 1: Republicans claim that the release of the chat is part

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Speaker 1: of a quote highly coordinated, year long character assassination led

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Speaker 1: by a guy named Gavin Wax and the New York

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Speaker 1: City Republican Club. Everything is always a conspiracy and people

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Speaker 1: sort of a grievance against them and all of this.

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Speaker 1: It is it really is sort of. It to me

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Speaker 1: is emblematic of the culture that has been created in

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Speaker 1: this young Maga movement. And what's interesting is the lack

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Speaker 1: of consistency among those that try to champion speech and

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Speaker 1: free speech. Right This this in some ways is you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you want to be anti woke. Apparently

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Speaker 1: it's become a permission slip to say whatever the hell

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Speaker 1: you want about anybody, right that that is what's anti woke.

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Speaker 1: What's fascinating, though, is to watch people like Jade Vance

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Speaker 1: trying to apologize for these for these folks, but say

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Speaker 1: that these awful things that are being said by these

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Speaker 1: young Republicans, hey, it's just nothing but a college group chat.

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Speaker 1: But the leaked texts from the former Virginia delegate who's

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Speaker 1: running for Attorney general in Virginia, J. Jones, you know

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Speaker 1: that those are much worse. Here's the thing. If you

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Speaker 1: believe that there should be no speech police at all,

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Speaker 1: which is what the mag of Movement and Jade Vance

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Speaker 1: campaigned on and Donald Trump campaigned on. Jadevance went to

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Speaker 1: Europe to lecture Europeans on speech. But there's and he's

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Speaker 1: always willing. When somebody on his side of the aisle

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Speaker 1: says something stupid, they should be forgiven. When somebody he

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Speaker 1: doesn't like says something stupid, they should be prosecuted. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is somebody who does not understand the Constitution. I

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Speaker 1: know JD. Van's Vance went to Yale Law School. I

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Speaker 1: assume Yale's going to ask for their law for their

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Speaker 1: degree back because he does not understated, he clearly didn't

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Speaker 1: pass constitutional law with what he's doing here. But what's

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Speaker 1: really frustrating here is the fact is both are shameful.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Jay Jones fantasized about what he did

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Speaker 1: is shameful and disqualifying. And the fact that these young

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Speaker 1: Republicans behave this way is incredibly disqualifying. And those that

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Speaker 1: are losing their jobs deserve to lose their jobs. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they need to make they do need to pay a

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Speaker 1: penalty for what they did. It's free speech, but nobody

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Speaker 1: says there aren't consequences for your behavior and for your speech.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that jd. Vance does not understand that

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Speaker 1: this is a culture that's being created on the right

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Speaker 1: that's celebrating the anti woke has turned into permission to

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Speaker 1: say anything and a celebration of hateful rhetoric. If you

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Speaker 1: don't like hateful rhetoric thrown at you, then you should

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Speaker 1: denounce hateful rhetoric that's thrown at others. And if you're

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Speaker 1: uncapable of doing that, then you're incapable of being a

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Speaker 1: leader in the United States of America. I know I'm

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Speaker 1: sort of preaching to people who understand this, and those

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Speaker 1: of you that listen are sort of you guys are

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Speaker 1: come from the rationally frustrated I assume is most of

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Speaker 1: the folks. But I have found all this and I'm

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Speaker 1: really concerned about what we may see from the right

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Speaker 1: in an attempt to weaponize what's said or what's done

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Speaker 1: in these protests. Do I think you know the thing

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Speaker 1: is is politically to me, I think the more the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration tries to denounce these protests, the more energy

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Speaker 1: they're going to give to them, the more attention they're

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Speaker 1: going to receive, and the more politically problematic they're going

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Speaker 1: to become. That's the irony here. The more they the

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Speaker 1: more they go after this, the worse off they're gonna

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Speaker 1: that this, the more impactful that they have a potential

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Speaker 1: chance to be here. But it's to just the lack

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Speaker 1: of consistency, and I know nothing matters anymore, right, consistency

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Principles have been thrown out the window. But

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Speaker 1: particularly JD. Vance, who does sort of play an intellectual,

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Speaker 1: his incredible lack of consistency on his belief system is startling,

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Speaker 1: and the lack of self awareness about it is something.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

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Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

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Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, You need somebody to get your back.

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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot Com, Slash podcast, or

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Speaker 1: dial pound law, Pound five two nine law on your

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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same,

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Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

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Speaker 1: unless they win a few of the notes I want

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Speaker 1: to hit the Voting Rights Act and the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: argument today. I know there's a lot of concern on

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Speaker 1: the left, a lot of concern among Democrats that essentially,

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Speaker 1: if the rest of the Voting Rights Act gets gutted,

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Speaker 1: that this is going to be an automatic win for

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Speaker 1: Republicans in sort of remapping of congressional seats, and an

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Speaker 1: automatic loss for Democrats. I'm not so sure I'm old enough.

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Speaker 1: My first professional year covering American politics was the ninety

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Speaker 1: two campaign. That was a year of brand new districts,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, the Bush forty one Justice Department

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Speaker 1: worked pretty closely with the Congressional Black Caucus to interpret

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Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act in such a way to essentially

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Speaker 1: try to create as many majority African American seats as

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Speaker 1: they could in the South. And the reason this was

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Speaker 1: one of those the Congressional Black Caucus wanted to increase

431
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: its ranks and the Bush forty one Justice Department wanted

432
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: to pack more Democrats into you know, pack more Democrats

433
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: into fewer districts. What would that do? So one of

434
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: my favorite examples at the time there was there was

435
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: eleven congressional districts in Georgia at the time in nineteen

436
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: ninety Democrats had eight Democratic House seats and Republicans had

437
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: three by nineteen ninety two. In January of ninety three,

438
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: I believe it went from eight. It literally was eight

439
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: three again, eight Republican seats and three Democratic seats. And

440
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: I believe all three Democratic seats were African majority African American,

441
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: or at least plurality African American. So I'm not so

442
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: sure that this. You know, again, everybody thinks they understand

443
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: how easily they can pack, crack and pack districts do

444
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: the hub and spoke model as we've seen, you know,

445
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: But if this idea that if you don't have to

446
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: do a majority African American district, that this is automatically

447
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: going to help. If more Democratic vote gets dispersed to

448
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: more congressional districts in a given geographic area, you may

449
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: see a lot more swing seats in the Sunboat. This

450
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: may be a lot harder to Jerrymander than many folks

451
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: are thinking today. So look, a few things to keep

452
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: in mind with this Supreme Court argument. It does seem

453
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: as if Roberts and Kavanaugh are looking to put an

454
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: end date to the Voting Rights Act on Section two.

455
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: What does that end date look like. It's at the

456
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: end of this decade, right, is it a review in

457
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: another four years? Is it throwing it back to Congress

458
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: to come up with an end date. That's something else.

459
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: They're very good at punting, particularly Roberts in Cavanaugh. They

460
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: do like to sort of see if they can come

461
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: up with an extraordinarily narrow ruling. I can tell you this,

462
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: I don't think John Roberts wants to be make feeling

463
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: as if he is deciding the midterm elections, so I

464
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: anticipate this is going to be narrow. But another thing

465
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: to keep in mind. If this ruling comes out when

466
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: most Supreme Court rulings come out, which is late June

467
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: early July, and it does have these dramatic changes into it,

468
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: it's not going to impact twenty twenty six. It's just

469
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: too so there'll be too many filing deadlines will have passed.

470
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: You won't be able to see that. This probably is

471
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: more likely to impact twenty twenty eight, and frankly is

472
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: more likely it could. I could even you could even

473
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: see in that this will apply to the next census

474
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: to the next reapportionment, which would take place the census

475
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: in twenty thirty in the next reapportionment in twenty thirty one.

476
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: So keep in mind those deadlines. And do you know, I,

477
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm not as I'm not as convinced

478
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: that this is as clean of a political victory for

479
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: the right. Now. There may be other issues. Representation may

480
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: go down. You know, those are some our serious issues

481
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 1: that we need to have a conversation about. But if

482
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: you're just playing a numbers game here, I'm not sure

483
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: this is going to be as damaging to the Democrats

484
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 1: or as helpful to the Republicans as a lot of

485
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: what I would say the chief commentary has come. You know,

486
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of so much of our reporting

487
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: and commentary just comes from does this help the left,

488
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt the left? Does its help the right? Doesn't

489
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 1: hurt the right? And you know, sometimes you just don't know.

490
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: You can have a larger conversation about whether do we

491
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: need this anymore? Do we not do this? Are we

492
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: going to have disenfranchisement of African American voters and of

493
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: African American representation, which was the whole point of the

494
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act. That needs to be the conversation that's had.

495
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: Everybody is trying to apply it to gerrymandering and redistricting.

496
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: It's why I tell you, if you just looked at

497
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: it through the data lens, this isn't as clean as

498
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: the commentary is making it seem. The other interesting news

499
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: over the last twenty four hours, so yesterday I made it,

500
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: or at least on Wednesday, I made a bit of a

501
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: deal about the main Senate primary. I have Graham Platner,

502
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: the Oyster farmer, Janet Mills, the city governor. For what

503
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: it's worth, the DSCC claims that they have not endorsed

504
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: in the primary, but they set up a joint fundraising

505
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: committee with Janet Mills. Now they've set up joint fundraising

506
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: committees in the past with multiple primary candidates. I'll be

507
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: curious to watch the d SCC here. Do they set

508
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: up a joint fundraising committee with Graham Platner. Do they

509
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: offer to send one to actually put some to make

510
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: the case that they're not taking sides, or maybe they

511
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: want donors to think, no, we have a preference here

512
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: and this is how it's going to work. How are

513
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: they going to operate in Minnesota. How are they going

514
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: to operate in Michigan. I'm curious with both of those

515
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: primaries where they we'll see, well, what's going to happen

516
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: in Iowa, what's going to happen in these Senate races

517
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: in the Texas Senate race. So I am curious to

518
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: see if the d SEC is serious about making it

519
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: clear they're not endorsing Mills in this primary, because they're

520
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: operating as if she's their preferred candidate. But then Kirsten Jelburn,

521
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: who is the d SEC chair said said that they

522
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: would not do an official endorsement. Look, Platner is already

523
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: on the air. The UAW has already taken sides and

524
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: is endorsing Platner in this one. And I also think

525
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: the fact that another New England state is going to

526
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: have another sort of generational primary, and the big one

527
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: is Seth Moulten, Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts, deciding the primary

528
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: at Marquee. This is actually the second time Markey's had

529
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: to deal with a Democratic primary that is more or

530
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: less more of a generational argument, and he turned it

531
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: into an ideological argument in his initial race for the

532
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: seat against Joe Kennedy the third Joe Kennedy was making

533
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: a he was making a generational argument, and essentially Marky

534
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: Randa Kennedy's left had the backing of AOC. In particular,

535
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: he had become sort of a big champion of the

536
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Green New Deal, and I think he's counting on that

537
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: this time. Seth Moulton comes from a bit more of

538
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: the of the middle, I don't know what you call

539
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: mainstream liberal versus or you know, sort of a closer

540
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: to the center than Marky is. So it's going to

541
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: be an interesting test of so Platner and Mills. Platner,

542
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: I think, arguably presents himself as is more populous, more

543
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: progressive than Janet Mills. In the case though, of Moulten

544
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: and Markey, it's market that is going to make the

545
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: cases more progressive. But he's going to be on the

546
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: older side. So it's gonna be interesting. There's a lot

547
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: of democratic groups out there calling for generational change. The

548
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: question is is it generational or is it ideological? The

549
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: Markey Molten primary is going to test how many of

550
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: these young groups are actually more focused on ideological purity

551
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: than generational change. If Molten gets the same support that

552
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: Platner gets from many of these groups, then maybe it

553
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: really is generational. But if Markey and Platner have more

554
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: endorsements in common then than than than Molten, uh uh,

555
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: then then if you know, if it's it's sort of

556
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: sort of if if Molten and Mills have sort of

557
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: more of the same endorsements than Platner and Markey or

558
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: whatever that works out, then you'll know that this is

559
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: more ideological. So it's going to be fascinating to watch

560
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: to watch that Molten candidacy. There two other nuggets I

561
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: want to mentioned before letting the weekend go. One is

562
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: back in Virginia a G. Two. Both are having to

563
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: do with TV ads that I really would like you

564
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: guys to take a look at. One is a new

565
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: ad from the Republican Attorney General in Virginia, Jason mirais

566
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: addressing Abigail Spanberger voters. And what's interesting here is so

567
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: in the Virginia governor's race, Winston Earl Sars, who's basically

568
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: thrown spaghetti at the wall to try to make to

569
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: try to pick up ground on spamburger, has been desperately

570
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: trying to use the texting controversy of the AG's race

571
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: to try to make look like Spamberger is somehow supportive,

572
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: won't denounce Jones enough. But guess what. The Miras campaign

573
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: has obviously decided Spamberger's already has got this race in

574
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: the back. So they've got an ad ut that essentially says, hey, look,

575
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Spamberger refuses to endorse Jay Jones, and they play clips

576
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: from the debate where she will not reiterate her endorsement

577
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: for Jay Jones. She's asked multiple times during the debate,

578
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: and she will not. She says it is up to

579
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: everyone's individual decision on how they're going to vote in

580
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: that race. Essentially, it was Spanberger giving her permission slip, going,

581
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not vouching for this guy. I'm

582
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: certainly not going to put my campaign in jeopardy to

583
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: help out this guy. And she made that clear during

584
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: the debate. She didn't say, don't vote for him, but

585
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: she didn't say to vote for him. Now you got Winston.

586
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: Earl Sears' campaign is trying to say, Aha, it means

587
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: she secretly supports Jason Miaris Republican Attorney Jay are going Aha,

588
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: See she doesn't, She's giving you a permission slip. The

589
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: ad is addressed to Spanburger voters, essentially saying, look, she's

590
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: giving you. She may not be voting for him. She's

591
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: not comfortable with it. You don't have to be comfortable

592
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: with it either. It's a fascinating ad. It is a

593
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: subtle way of mirs throwing winsom Earl Sears under the

594
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: bus on Look, we know she can't win. We know

595
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: who the next governor is going to be. So hey,

596
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: Abigail Spamberger, voters, are you sure you want this guy? J?

597
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: Jones is the chief law enforcement officer anyway. A fascinating

598
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: development in that race, and frankly kind of predictable because

599
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: it did seem at some I've said this before, if

600
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: the governor's race were closer, Spamberger would have called for

601
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: him to get out of the race. I think the

602
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: fact that it isn't closer, she's trying to not engage

603
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: in that issue, or engage in it as little as

604
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: she possibly can. And now in some ways Miaras has

605
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: just inoculated her because he's going to be up with

606
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: an ad that's probably going to have more money behind

607
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: it than what Winston Earl series is. And if you're

608
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: the in Earl Series campaign. You hate this ad. You're

609
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: frustrated because it is essentially mi are is giving Spamberger

610
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: a pass and in some ways inadvertently praising the fact

611
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: that she refuses to endorse J. Jones. So it really

612
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: does undermine whatever last minute strategy the Winston Earl Series

613
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: campaign thought was going to work for them. And then

614
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: one other ad I want to alert you to because

615
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: it it is and yes, it's you know, I have

616
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: a feeling that if somebody wanted to develop a drinking

617
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: contest with my podcast, it would be how often he

618
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: mentions Florida. Well, I'm about to mention Florida, so drink.

619
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: There is a new Senate candidate that jumped in the race,

620
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Hector Muhika. He is Venezuela.

621
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: He has worked with Google in the past, and it's

622
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: he's got this personal video that he's put out and

623
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: he's an any and what's interesting to me, and I

624
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: think his background potentially is interesting and we'll see if

625
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: he can get traction and is he got He's been

626
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: he was a Google He worked in Google fill phil

627
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: philanthropy for a while, handing out Google money. My guess

628
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: is he must have some of his own. We'll see

629
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: if he's going to use some of his own. But

630
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: what I want to alert you were sort of two

631
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: policy hits that were AI related that he used in

632
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: this As you know, a few weeks ago, I said,

633
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that come twenty twenty eight, the

634
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: most animating issue that you're not going to be able

635
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: to run for president and not have a some sort

636
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: of answer to a voter concern about AI job displacement. Right,

637
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: fear of AI job displacement, whether it's a real thing

638
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: or not, by twenty twenty eight won't matter. The fear

639
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: of it is going to be an issue. Well, this

640
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: Mohika announcement video touches on it in a couple of

641
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: ways that I hadn't seen. So he attacks Ashley Moody currently,

642
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: who is the appointed senator to replace Marco Rubio, who

643
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: of course has been who's the Secretary of State, National

644
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: Security advisor, head of the Archives, and maybe the chief

645
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: dog walker two. I'm not quite sure what other jobs

646
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: that Trump has made him have on that front, but

647
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: to her, and said, she is basically on the side

648
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: of the AI. You know that she cheered on the

649
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: federal job cuts which put clean water and all this

650
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: stuff in danger. She is for using AI to get

651
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: rid of human jobs. She is for AI to set

652
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: medicare pricing. I found it to be an interesting hit,

653
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 1: and it was clearly here's the Google exec using fear

654
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: of AI as an attack. I don't think he got

655
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: it quite right. For what it's worth, I think AI

656
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: using AI itself is sort of a double edged sword.

657
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: I think those who know what AI is are sort

658
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: of are a sort of tech optimists, and you don't

659
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: want to be seen as the candidate not on the

660
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: side of progress more. But I do think an older

661
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: electorates are going to be a bit skeptical and fearful

662
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: of AI. And the smarter way to probably go about

663
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: this is to say, do you want a computer deciding

664
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: what the pricing is on medicare? Or do you think

665
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: you know or do you think that you know human

666
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: beings should be involved in those decisions? Do you want

667
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: a computer deciding whether your insurance covers this, or do

668
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: you think human beings ought to be involved in that decision?

669
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: I think talking about it as a computer rather than

670
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: using the phrase AI probably will make it more effective.

671
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: But the real reason I'm learning to this ad is,

672
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: I think, is this is my Canario. So it's the

673
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: first one I've seen in a Senate race in twenty

674
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: twenty six to start to put AI in the mainstream

675
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: political conversation and fuse it with healthcare pricing, fuse it

676
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: with job displacement. I have a feeling he will be

677
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: the first that this is. He's not going to be

678
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: alone in using AI this way. So again, take a

679
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: look at it, see how he did it. Like I said,

680
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: I think if you're a political strategist here trying to

681
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do you talk about AI

682
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: without sounding anti progress, there are probably ways to do

683
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: it that just talk in the form do you want

684
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: a computer deciding these things or do you want a

685
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: human being who understands the impact on your life making

686
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: these decisions. That is a conversation that I think voters

687
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: do want to have. And I go back, I think

688
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: that in a larger sense, I think the big the

689
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: release of this Sora video app right, We're already two

690
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: weeks into it, and it feels like you can't trust

691
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: any video now that you see on social media. It

692
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: is going to put a premium on human interaction, live

693
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: in person interaction, and even perhaps in the digital realm,

694
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: being at least live streaming at any one time, but

695
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: the premium. I did this when I was doing this

696
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: talk at the industry conference earlier this week. I asked

697
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 1: for a show of hands, how many of you would

698
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: pay extra if you knew you could get a human

699
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: customer service run? And literally two thirds. This is a

700
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: crowd of about five hundred people. Two thirds of people

701
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: put their hands up. It is I do think this

702
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: is why I'm weirdly optimistic about all about right. The

703
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: unintended consequence of AI advancement may be reminding people the

704
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: importance of human connectivity. And if that ends up being

705
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: the unintended consequence of the rise of AI, is that

706
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: so bad? If we end up deciding, hey, the human

707
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: element is more valuable than ever, that, my friends, would

708
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: be serious progress. All right? With that? Let me pause,

709
00:43:50,840 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: sneak in an ad and my conversation with Mike mcphone

710
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: well joining me now is a longtime friend of mine.

711
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: Mike McFall is the former Ambassador to Russia, among other

712
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: stints in and out of government. He's at Stanford University

713
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: at the Hoover Institute, and he's author of a new books,

714
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: author of a lot of books. This is what right

715
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: these days? But his latest is called Autocrats Versus Democrats

716
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: and in some ways essentially trying to I think you

717
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: tell me, trying to explain the world these days, like

718
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: how is the world being divvied up? And I guess

719
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: the where I'd want to jump before we get into

720
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: some of the nitty gritty of the current situation. Is

721
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: everything old new again? Meaning is the world back to

722
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: where it was pre World War Two?

723
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: Well, chucks, First, thanks for having me. Second, I have

724
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: written a lot of books you're write. But this is

725
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: my last book. This has been This is my most

726
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: ambitious book.

727
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: Government amos last words, my last book. It's politicians say,

728
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: my last election, my last book, the last time I'm

729
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: doing this.

730
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: Okay, tig on my hands by saying it on the

731
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: public record, because I really it killed me. This is

732
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: a hard book to write. It took me many years,

733
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: and I you know, I do other things, as you know,

734
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: I run an institute here at Stanford, I teach at Stanford.

735
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: But but it's ambitious in a good way because I

736
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: try to answer your question and the original question that

737
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 2: I started with when I you know, it goes back

738
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: to twenty seventeen, when President Trump first won and he

739
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: brought in his national security team and they wrote a

740
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: very i would say, historic National Security strategy. Hr McMaster

741
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: at the time was the National Security Advisor. He kind

742
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: of spearheaded it. Whether the President himself read it or not,

743
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've heard that he didn't. We'll come

744
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 2: back to him later. But it was a pretty It

745
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: was a statement that said that old post Cold War

746
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: order with American hegemony and everybody wanting to be part

747
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: of the democratic world, was over and we'd answered a

748
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: new war era of great power competition.

749
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: And I thought they were right about that. But then

750
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: they and.

751
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: I would say that the debate in Washington especially circled

752
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: around are we in a new Cold War with China

753
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: and at sidekick Russia? And you know, as an academic,

754
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to answer that question as a hypothesis, what's

755
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: the data to support that or not? And you know,

756
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: I know a little bit about the Cold War. I

757
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: wrote my PhD about Cold War competition, so it wasn't

758
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: like I was starting from scratch, but I answered in

759
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: a pretty complex way, which is why the book's five

760
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: hundred pages long. You should know it used to be

761
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: twelve hundred pages long. So I did a lot of

762
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: cuts to make it more exciting.

763
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: So you could have had volume two and then come

764
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: out with a second edition. Well, there was talk about

765
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: that one on China, Ron and Russia.

766
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that. But the very complex

767
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: answer that I have to your question, but I'm going

768
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: to get to the thirties as well, before the World

769
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: War two? Is is it a new Cold War?

770
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: Yes? Is it a new Cold War? No?

771
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: I answer it in both ways, which is to say,

772
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: there are some things that are similar in some things

773
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: that are different, and similarities to great powers China and Russia,

774
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: China and the United States ideological contests most certainly. That's

775
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: why my book is called Autocrats Versus Democrats. Different conceptions

776
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 2: of the world order. Absolutely, and yet on the different side,

777
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: I think they're even bigger and more important. So yes,

778
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: it's an ideological struggle, but it is not to the

779
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 2: same intensity as it was with the Soviets. I think

780
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: that is overstated, especially with my Republican colleagues that say

781
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: we're in an existent'll fight and this is a bigger

782
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: challenge than ever before in the history of the United States.

783
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: That's just wrong in my view. Second big difference, complex

784
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: difference with pluses and minuses, is our economies are highly intertwined.

785
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 2: We didn't have that with the Soviets. But the biggest

786
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: differences are about us, Chuck, are the biggest differences are

787
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 2: here in the United States. We today have a level

788
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: of polarization that you know, we might have had it

789
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: in the late sixties, early seventies, but I think it's

790
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: actually more acute today. That's different. That weakens us in

791
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 2: dealing with our adversaries abroad. And the other piece that's

792
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: different is we're in a new era of isolationism, most

793
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: prominent in the Republican Party, but not only very growing

794
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: within the Democratic Party as well. And that piece reminds

795
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: me more of the nineteen thirties than the Cold War,

796
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: because during the Cold War there was a broad consensus

797
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: kind of forty five yard lines, right, It wasn't streams.

798
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: And that's not true.

799
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: We had our Communists. I'm a Stanford guy. You know,

800
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: we had our Communists up at Berkeley. You know, they

801
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: were there, but they were pretty marginal. Uh, And there

802
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 2: was a kind of broad consensus that in order to

803
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: prevail in the Cold War, we had to be engaged

804
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: in the world. Uh, that is no longer true. I

805
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: mean that that.

806
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: Sentiment which we see in opinion polls, and I feel

807
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 1: when I'm out talking about the book around the country,

808
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: that's no longer true to it. That's a big difference.

809
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: So I will I appreciate the way you address the question.

810
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: I will confess that I meant it in a different way,

811
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what I'm I'll tell you what

812
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: I meant. Look, I've been tackling this current era in

813
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: polarization through my own lens of histories more domestic, more

814
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: domestic than than than international. But I keep coming back

815
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: to the same conclusion, and I can back up up

816
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: with different data. Six of our last seven presidential elections

817
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 1: been cited by five points or less. In the entire

818
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: twentieth century, we only had five elections decided by five

819
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: points or less. I didn't know that. Wow, Okay, and yeah,

820
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: it's one of those You're just like, it's it is.

821
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: It is like there's something has radically changed this century.

822
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: Right when you look at the nineteenth century, we had

823
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: two different periods where we had like, first of all,

824
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: we had two different periods where we elected five one

825
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: term presidents in a row. We did it at the

826
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: end of the century. We did it sort of in

827
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: the run up between Jackson and Lincoln twenty you know,

828
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with that. We had seven presidents in twenty

829
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: eight years between Jackson and Lincoln. Only one was due

830
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: to death, right, So it was parties were consistently throwing

831
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: and it was all every election was about the same thing.

832
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: I can bring the country together, right, Okay, we'll try this, right,

833
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: And it was different things. We'll try a Democrat from

834
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: the north right, that was Franklin Pierce, you know, all

835
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: sorts of different things. What's hard. And you look at

836
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: our partisan media today, it looks a lot like the

837
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: partisan media of the late nineteenth century early twentieth century.

838
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: Is it possible the Cold War era was simply an

839
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: outlier period in world history like that. There is no

840
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: other period like it. And what we're dealing with today

841
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: is no different than the nineteenth century globe we had

842
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: great powers then, right, no different than the fifteenth century.

843
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: We can keep going back, and in some ways, the

844
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: globe in human history has been defined by great powers

845
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: only in this unique sixty year period where you and

846
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: I had the luxury of growing up in it. Thinking

847
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: this is normal, and I think because I sit there

848
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: and I wonder how much it's almost like is this

849
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: bad data? Right? If this word numbers, we'd say, oh,

850
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: this is outlier data. Throw it out.

851
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's a great observation, Chuck, And I hope

852
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: you're writing your book on that topic.

853
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: That's a great Seriously, that is a great tile.

854
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: And I don't think a lot of Americans know, including me,

855
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: by the way, and I have a lot of books.

856
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: You can see it. I see that. I don't know.

857
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: You know that history the way you just described it,

858
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: that would make a great book. But you appreciate you

859
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: saying that. I'll make sure we'll clip this and I'll

860
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: send it to all the publishers here in New York.

861
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: You should, you should, But you're you're onto something. Absolutely.

862
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: I agree, and I also hope you're wrong. So let

863
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: me Yeah, I hope I'm wrong too, you know I do.

864
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: So there's two things that are going on, I would

865
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: say in the Cold War period. One is you do

866
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: have we have an adversary that everybody understands is an

867
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: ad adversary, existential threat, all that stuff, and I did,

868
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 2: you know, to write this new book, I went through

869
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 2: all that history again.

870
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: I used to know it, but I had to relearn it.

871
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 2: And that helped to create some sort of consensus and

872
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: unity in the United States. You know, we had this

873
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: word containment. That was our strategy towards the Soviets. It

874
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 2: was pretty elastic, right the way Reagan you defined containment,

875
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: and you know, Nixon was very different, but it still

876
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: was this thing. It brought us together, Democrats and Republicans.

877
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 2: There was a lot of consensus on foreign policy, partly

878
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: because of the Soviet threat, but the other piece it

879
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 2: was partly because we were so powerful, the United States

880
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: of America, and that part where we were the great power.

881
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 2: We were the great power, and in retrospect, the Soviets

882
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: were not as great as we were. We didn't know

883
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: that always at the time, right we overestimated the Soviet threat.

884
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: By the way, I think we're doing a little bit

885
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 2: of that with the Chinese threat today. But it was

886
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: our power that was this organizing principle, not just visa

887
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 2: the Soviets, but around the world. And you know, Bob

888
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 2: Kagan has this great book, I'm going to forget the

889
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: name of it. Oh, the Jungle Grows Back, which is

890
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: which is basically laws of the Jungle.

891
00:53:58,239 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: Right when we.

892
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: Became the hedge, I'm on the jungle receded. But now

893
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: that we're falling back. And he wrote this book like

894
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 2: a decade ago, not in the Trump era, the jungles

895
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: growing back. And his argument is, just like yours said,

896
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: this is a unique period in history and now we're

897
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: back to normal, you know, Besian anarchic dog yak dogs politics,

898
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 2: great power politics. You know, if I analytically, I think

899
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: there's a lot of evidence to support that hypothesis. So

900
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,959
Speaker 2: if I have my analytic professorial hat on, I see

901
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: those trends.

902
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: But if I have my.

903
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: Normative hat on, I still want to fight for a

904
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: different world than that, because that world is not a

905
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: great world.

906
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: People forget.

907
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 2: You know, when I teach a course on American foreign

908
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: policy here at Stanford, I started with a map of Europe.

909
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: It's a thousand year map of history of Europe in

910
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: six minutes, and what you see is the you know,

911
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 2: border moving all the time, right like you know, the

912
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: Napoleon comes on the scene, the Nazis comes on the scene,

913
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: the Soviets come on the scene, go back farther. It's

914
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: the Mongol, hordes rights, it's it's what we use the

915
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: word chaos. It's a lot of chaos. It's a lot

916
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: of killing. Millions and millions of people die. We fought

917
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: World War two to end that. And by the way,

918
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: the movie does kind of freeze in forty five, right,

919
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: borders in Europe, there's some there's some changes a little bit,

920
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 2: and then eighty nine we get some changes, but it

921
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 2: does kind of freeze because we agree we don't want

922
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: to live in that world, and even with the Soviets,

923
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: we agree we don't want annexation. But we're creeping back

924
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 2: to that of course, you know, with Russia's eric invasion

925
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: of Ukraine. But I just don't think that's a great

926
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 2: world to live in.

927
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: And oh, I agree, and I think we.

928
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: Got to fight to all and you know, that's that

929
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 2: is the major reason why I wrote this book, to

930
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 2: fight to renew reform, of course all that, but another

931
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 2: form of liberal internationalism, so that we don't go back

932
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: to that world.

933
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: So the problem right that you're facing, and well, frankly

934
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: that all small d democrats are facing is that there's

935
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 1: not unity about this in our own country. And until

936
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: we have a unity about small D democracy in our country,

937
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: we can't export it. We can't be the beacon. I mean,

938
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: I'm looking at certain things like are just what appears

939
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: to be indiscriminate bombing of boats in the Caribbean, And

940
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: I say indiscriminate, Perhaps there's intelligence to support it. I'm

941
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: hoping our members of Congress demand it. Yes, we've not

942
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: seen it with people. The point being is our behavior

943
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: is not small D democratic behavior here, correct, and we

944
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: just lost whatever a moral authority we had to lecture

945
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: any other country, including one that you wrote about here

946
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: called Russia.

947
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 2: Yes, you're absolutely right. And you know my book is

948
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 2: called Autocrats Versus Democrats, the title China, Russia, America in

949
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: the New Global Disorder. Right, So poltically, I'm agreeing with you.

950
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: And by the way, I wrote most of those book

951
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: obviously before our last election. I had about three weeks

952
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: to scramble to do some updating. And you know, often

953
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 2: times it's not clear what side of that divide we're on.

954
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: President Trump, he doesn't define the world in Autocrats Versus Democrats.

955
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: He likes strong leaders versus week leaders. Right, I feel

956
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: like it's a movie version. I call him like, I

957
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: feel like he's a movie mobster, meaning it's not the

958
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: real I think the real mob is real, dangerous, and

959
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things and it shouldn't be glorified.

960
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: But the movie mob right, movie mobsters. I think Trump

961
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: sees himself as the head of that kind of benevolent

962
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: movie mobster family. And this is just how you do

963
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: it sometimes. Sometimes you do things ethically, but sometimes you don't,

964
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: depending on the situation.

965
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: Right, Well, and you know that could work in the

966
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: short term, as I write about it.

967
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: Worked in the Middle East. I think it's the only

968
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: place it works. Maybe it works with Putin if he

969
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: would be if he would treat Putin the way he

970
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: treat Bybee, maybe he could have similar outcomes. But it

971
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: feels like the only places where his style might be

972
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: an asset not a liability. Well, it definitely doesn't work

973
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: with allies.

974
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 2: So you know, as I write about, and you know

975
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: you can if you're really powerful. You know, I grew

976
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,439
Speaker 2: up in Butte, Montana, pretty rough place, mining town, and

977
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: Eddie and his gang every you know, for three years

978
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 2: would try to beat me up every day, and they

979
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 2: were stronger than me and more powerful, and I would

980
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: they could coerce me to do things, and I would

981
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: do it if I had to for survival purposes.

982
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: But did I like it? No?

983
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: And when I got strong enough that I could push

984
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: back on it, I did, And that you know, that's

985
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: not a good way to do transaction. Always coercion and

986
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 2: put and trump. He always thinks about power in terms

987
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 2: of coercive power. He doesn't think about cooperative power when

988
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 2: earning trust.

989
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: Or like, look what he did to the Argentinian people.

990
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: Well here's your loan, but you better support my guy

991
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: or I'm pulling the money. And you're like, that's all.

992
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 2: That's corsion, you know, right, Cred's to the allies about

993
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: they should share more of the burden. They there's a

994
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 2: different way to do that. And then and eventually people

995
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: get tired of being coerced, as I did on the

996
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: streets of Butte, Montana. And you know, if we were

997
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: the only head jemon, that would be one thing. But

998
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: China's offering a different world order. They're offering something else.

999
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: And and so I just think this, this is not

1000
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: a long term strategy. The one he's doing is just

1001
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: not a long term strategy. But there's another piece to

1002
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: it that that is also is equally uh you know,

1003
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: unnerving for me that if you go back to the

1004
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 2: Cold War, and I'm going to oversimplify, of course, but

1005
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 2: you know, it was kind of Red team versus Blue team, right,

1006
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: we knew the common US and the capitalists, the free

1007
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: world and the you know, the autocratic world. And remember

1008
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: those maps, you know, with sides would flip, right, So

1009
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: like Angola became read, you know, and Nicaragua became read

1010
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: at least you know.

1011
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: Everybody was defined by it, right, I was Pakistan and

1012
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: ally in India, you know, you had the underlying countries,

1013
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: you know those three or four right, Your South Africa's

1014
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: your your India, You're Brazil. Right.

1015
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: So what's new today is that the fight between autocrats

1016
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: and democrats is not just between countries like it was

1017
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: during the Cold War, it's actually within countries. And Putin

1018
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: and Putinism as a set of illiberal, nationalist, anti democratic

1019
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: ideas of what he's had for a long time, and

1020
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: he's invested in propagating those for a long time. I

1021
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 2: think we really have been sleeping on this. I have

1022
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 2: old chapter on it in the book, where we just

1023
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 2: don't we just think, oh, he's just some transactional thug.

1024
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

1025
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: And and when I was in the government, that's the

1026
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: way many of our senior leadership referred to him. And

1027
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: my point is you can be a transactional thug and

1028
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 2: an ideologue at the same time. You know, think of

1029
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: Stalin and he's both of those things. And what he

1030
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: has done through Russia today and NGOs that reach out

1031
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: to our NGOs, and the Russian Orthodox Church that reach

1032
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: out to our religious communities with the same ideology he's

1033
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: now helped and that's also happened organically. It's not just

1034
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: all from Moscow. But now there's fights you know.

1035
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: Within Hungary, within Italy, within Germany, within France, and within

1036
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: as this you know better than I within our country.

1037
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: And so you have now Americans.

1038
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 2: That and even sometimes our president by the way, he's

1039
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 2: all over the place these days on Putin. But there

1040
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 2: are millions of Americans that ideologically are closer to Putin

1041
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: than they are to me, even though I'm an American, right,

1042
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 2: So you have like there one of their main ideologues,

1043
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 2: Chuck in Russia today is his name is Alexander Ducd.

1044
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: He's one of the main ideologues of Putinism. He appears

1045
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: regularly on Info Wars. He is a he is a

1046
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 2: beloved guest of that podcast of that show.

1047
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: See a Tucker Guy too.

1048
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 2: I yes, yes, has interviewed him. Yeah, I forgot about that.

1049
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 2: They have also interacted. So that's different, right, that's and

1050
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 2: that's and then of course therefore, to support small d

1051
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 2: democrats abroad when we're.

1052
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: Doing these things near to impossible.

1053
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 2: And what I'll also add to this because it's on

1054
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: my mind, because Machada just won the Nobel Peace Prize

1055
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: right in Venezuela. Here at Stanford, we were quite connected

1056
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 2: to Democrats movements all over the world, including Venezuela. One

1057
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 2: of her closest colleagues was here at Stanford at a

1058
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: summer program I run during the elections that they won,

1059
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 2: stolen from them, and then the Venezuelans canceled his passport.

1060
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 2: He's been stranded here at Stanford ever since.

1061
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: Those people want us to be involved, right, Am I

1062
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 3: wrong to be extraordinarily that the Nobel Committee did us

1063
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 3: all that this was a good I mean, look that

1064
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 3: this was a good pick.

1065
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: I mean that this was sort of they found somebody

1066
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: that wasn't going to divide us. Like, I am just

1067
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: so excited, and I'm glad that Trump administration's excited. There's

1068
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: something about her, and there's something about it feels like,

1069
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the Nobel Committee rewards the past and

1070
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: sometimes they give you something for now, and this felt

1071
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: like they gave us something.

1072
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: I'm not agree more one hundred percent. And you're right

1073
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 2: about that past rewarding stuff. Let's not get name names,

1074
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: but they don't. Yeah, yeah, this is not that. She's

1075
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:09,439
Speaker 2: still she's still fighting for democracy and brilliantly, in my view,

1076
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: her messaging to the Trump administration afterwards could not have

1077
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 2: been better.

1078
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's been She's been terrific. There. Sorry I interrupted

1079
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: you on that, but I just wanted to set that.

1080
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that this feels I just

1081
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, this feels like this just feels righteous, right,

1082
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: you just sometimes a moment is righteous, right, This feels

1083
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: right more and not agree more. Yeah, So this is

1084
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: one of those moments with Venezuela where we're going to

1085
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: be on the side of the of the democrats here.

1086
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: But is it because of democracy? Well, the tragedy of Venezuela.

1087
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: I mean, the tragedy's inside.

1088
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 2: And you know, in my opinion, we should have done

1089
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: more when they had that electoral breakthrough, they documented it

1090
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: was falsified, and you know, the Biden administration and the

1091
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 2: whole world should have leaned in more.

1092
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: I just kind of feckless. What more could we I mean,

1093
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: we didn't do anything because I think there was a

1094
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: fear of doing it that other than rhetoric, it would mean,

1095
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we would have to you know, move

1096
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: carriers or do something like that. And and Biden just

1097
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: wasn't it just wasn't willing to do that.

1098
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 2: They had a lot of they had a lot on

1099
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 2: their plate.

1100
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: And and I don't want to say that doing more

1101
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: would have, you know, overturned Maduro, but there were they

1102
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: They could have done sanctions, they.

1103
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: Could have been more aggressive. Not you know, we didn't

1104
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 2: need to do military action. But when I think of

1105
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 2: like the Orange Revolution in two thousand and four, which

1106
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 2: was a very similar situation in Ukraine where the Democrats

1107
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 2: small d Democrats documented that it was falsified. We sent

1108
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 2: Senator Lugar there and and said we're not recognizing this election,

1109
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: and we got involved in negotiating the Europeans did. But

1110
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 2: that you know that that train has left the station,

1111
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 2: that that is not there.

1112
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: Well, that's the story of in America. We never have

1113
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: We always have something else on our plate before we're

1114
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: going to tackle that. It is the sorry, as a

1115
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: guy who grew up in Miami, this is what this

1116
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: is why they resent us. This is why they resent us.

1117
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: And hey, we never focus on their problems first. It

1118
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: always takes a backseat.

1119
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 2: Well there's something to that, but here's the IRA irony

1120
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: or tragedy also of what's going on with the Trump administration.

1121
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: So President Trump talked to Machado, right, she's a leader

1122
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 2: of the Venezuelan opposition.

1123
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: That's great.

1124
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 2: But what I think a lot of Americans don't know

1125
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: is the NGOs that have been working with the Venezuelan

1126
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 2: opposition for decades, groups like the International Republican Institute, the

1127
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: National Democratic Institute, the two arms.

1128
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: I've done a little bit on them. These are the

1129
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: two international arms of our domestic major parties, the Democratic

1130
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: Party which overseas. These are I've been in the past

1131
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,439
Speaker 1: very simpatico. Exactly know how simpatico it is these days,

1132
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: but it has been. It's still this. It's still this.

1133
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: I used to work for ENDI and I'm on their board.

1134
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 2: And but these all these organizations that help small d

1135
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 2: democrats and independent media.

1136
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: President Trump just shut them down. You know, he just.

1137
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 2: Closed the United States Agency for International Development. He's going

1138
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: after the National Endowment for Democracy.

1139
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: Uh. And you know, we just can't.

1140
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: Compete with the Chinese if we don't support those that

1141
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 2: are ideologically aligned with freedom, liberty, democracy. And I chose

1142
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: that those words very precisely chucked because this is a

1143
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: nonpartisan thing. Freedom tends to be a liberty tends to

1144
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 2: be a republican word. Democracy tends to be a democratic word.

1145
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 2: I think they're all the same. And we got to

1146
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: be in this fight in the long run or we're

1147
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 2: going to be in trouble.

1148
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: No, and it we're And I guess the question is

1149
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: we've just got to run a better persuasion campaign of

1150
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: wide democracy around the world benefits us. I mean, I

1151
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: look at this weird strain of anti NATO fervor inside

1152
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: the right, and I'm sitting there going look, in the

1153
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, we would have just colonized Europe. Yes, it's

1154
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: the Great power, and we would have been responsible for

1155
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: social security for all these people and responsible. You know,

1156
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: here was a case where Europe was essentially we had

1157
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: the I mean, I hate to be this cynical about it,

1158
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: the modern version of colonialism, which was we were their

1159
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: security blanket. Yes, and it was working out pretty well

1160
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: for everybody. Why would we want to give that up?

1161
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean, the ability to essentially have countries without having

1162
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: to be responsible for governing these countries, and yet they

1163
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: were under our sphere of influence. I mean, to just

1164
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: be totally looking at it as cynical way, it was working,

1165
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: and it was working quite well.

1166
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And you know, my lessons from the

1167
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 2: Cold War for what we should do today. At the

1168
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: top of my lists in my book and my book

1169
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 2: talk is Allies. That was our superpower during the Cold War.

1170
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: It remains so today. And to add to your list,

1171
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: we also did an incredible amount of economic business with Europe.

1172
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 2: We continued to do so. It was win win for

1173
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 2: both sides. And to undermine that is just not strategic

1174
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 2: at all. And you know, I'm not giving up, Like

1175
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people in my world that have

1176
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 2: given up and say we're lever go back to thinking

1177
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 2: about supporting democratic ideals or allies or trade.

1178
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: But we'll go back, but we're probably going to have

1179
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: to go through something nearly catastrophic in order to sober

1180
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: ourselves up. I mean, you know, right, you know, I

1181
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: have this dark joke these days where I'm short term optimistic,

1182
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,680
Speaker 1: short term pessimistic, long term optimistic. And I say, in

1183
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, I'd have said I'm short term pessimistic

1184
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: and long term optimistic. In by nineteen forty six I

1185
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: had have been right. But a lot of bad stuff

1186
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: happened between nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty six, and

1187
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: it feels as if, unfortunately, we're going to have to

1188
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: have a near you know, something bad has to happen.

1189
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: They people have to feel the pain of the hot stove. Yeah, tragically.

1190
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 2: I think you're right, And you know, the thirties is

1191
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 2: an excellent metaphor for the moment that we're in now.

1192
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,600
Speaker 1: I would all the thirties are the twenties. We twenties

1193
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: are fascinating me because of the industry and government got

1194
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: so intertwined in the twenties. Well, that's true, and we're

1195
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,799
Speaker 1: watching some of that now. You have a front arguably

1196
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: have a front row seat out there in Silicon Valley

1197
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: and that didn't end well either. Well, yeah, you're right.

1198
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: We start with the twenties.

1199
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 2: We're in the late twenties now, and if the analogy

1200
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 2: is there, history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

1201
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 2: And it feels like that and the pivot that they

1202
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 2: all had, all these companies out here with the Trump administration.

1203
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 2: And you're right by inter with all these folks and

1204
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: I knew them back when Chuck I knew them, you know,

1205
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 2: and they had different ideas.

1206
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: Do they have ideologies or are they just transactionalists? Is

1207
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: that really what we found out about Silicon out.

1208
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, there's a range. There's a range. I

1209
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 2: think some are just it's about business interests and we

1210
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 2: got to do what's right for the company. I think

1211
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: there are some that, you know, I think of a

1212
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 2: guy like Reid Hoffman, I think is much more thoughtful

1213
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 2: about the world and understands the dangers.

1214
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: And then they are just you know, some have changed

1215
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: and that happened. I'd love to see read Hoffman and

1216
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: Peter Tield debate. Well, funny you say that because I

1217
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: arranged that debate. Did you really I would love to see.

1218
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 2: About eight or nine years ago, we had a program

1219
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 2: we are trying to bring together different perspectives, and I

1220
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 2: was there's this guy, Neil Ferguson who's at the Hoover section.

1221
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: And it ended up not working out because it's hard

1222
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: to do these things. But we started it.

1223
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 2: Neil was, you know, the cares about It was kind

1224
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: of like remember Hannity and Colmes.

1225
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: You're old enough to remember Handy and Colins. Yeah, right, yeah, Yeah,

1226
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,600
Speaker 1: I was to Neil because I think we called that

1227
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: the Washington Generals and the hanb.

1228
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 2: Trotters, right, But you know, Neil is a very charismatic

1229
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 2: and I we're friends, and I you know, we don't always.

1230
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 1: Sell yourself short. You're pretty charismatic. But that was our idea.

1231
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: And the best one we did, yeah, is Reid Hoffman

1232
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 1: and Peter Teel and interesting. It was extraordinary, and it

1233
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: had the virtue that they were college kids together here

1234
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: at Stanford, so those they were they were friendly, they

1235
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 1: had a relationship, Yes.

1236
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 2: And they were and they're both super smart guys and

1237
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 2: and we need more of that. That's we they are

1238
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 2: not to what I understand. I haven't seen Peter for

1239
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 2: a while, but I don't think they're doing many of

1240
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 2: those events these days.

1241
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: And we feels like everybody's closing off, everybody's retreating right now.

1242
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: Do you feel it in academia fear of debate right now? Yeah?

1243
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, fear of debate absolutely, even fear of me

1244
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 2: Chuck speaking on campuses. You know, there's a there's a definitely,

1245
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 2: you know, sensitivity to anything.

1246
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: That might sound partisan. And you know, I'm very clear

1247
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: in fact, because apparently the definition of partisan now is

1248
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 1: anything somebody disagrees with. I'm sort of great, right we're living.

1249
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: This is where I sit here and go, hey, we're

1250
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 1: living a free country. Yeah, and yet do you feel

1251
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: comfortable debating in this country right now? It's tricky. I

1252
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: mean what I try to do militantly And I even

1253
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 1: wrote a piece about this on substack to start our

1254
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 1: school year. Here.

1255
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 2: It's how I teach at Stanford, and I wrote to

1256
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 2: explain because I published something. You know, this is my

1257
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 2: thirtieth year at Stanford, by the way, so wow, starting

1258
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 2: my I'm going to take.

1259
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: What you take is proof California living's good. You know

1260
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: you don't look like a thirty year professor. Well, thanks

1261
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: for saying that I appreciate it.

1262
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 2: Going to my reunion, my fortieth reunion on Friday.

1263
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 1: Check here at Stanfield as a kid.

1264
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: But you know, I put something up and you know

1265
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 2: the usual crap about you know, wokeness and brainwash, and

1266
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 2: you know, the way I teach all my classes are

1267
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 2: about why questions, you know, why is their great power

1268
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 2: competition today versus not? Why do some countries become democratic

1269
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: versus not? And you see set them up as hypotheses,

1270
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 2: and then I compel my students to debate. You pick

1271
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: lotteries and you get numbers, and then you have to

1272
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 2: take certain positions. And by doing that, by the way,

1273
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 2: they're arguing a hypothesis that need not necessarily be their

1274
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 2: own belief system, right, so I free them of having

1275
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 2: to all that I feel I want you know that

1276
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 2: I feel that whenever sentences start that way, you know

1277
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 2: it's going to be complic And but then for every class,

1278
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 2: sometimes before sometimes after, we like say okay, we're out

1279
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: of the classroom setting and ask me anything, and we're

1280
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 2: going to talk about what I believe. And I think

1281
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: there's a way to separate out beliefs.

1282
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: And as I do this, I have this class I

1283
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 1: teach for USC this cohort how Washington works. And it's

1284
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: been very it's a pretty bipartisan group of students and

1285
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: has been a couple semester now and you can do this,

1286
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: And this is what I want to tell some. I mean,

1287
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: I do think I do send some professors spend time

1288
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: lecturing about what they believe rather than helping their students

1289
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: come to their beliefs exactly. I mean, my son said

1290
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 1: something about he's taken this one political science class and

1291
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: he goes, I really like the professor because you're not

1292
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: telling me how I'm supposed to think. He's giving me

1293
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: the information and explaining how each side thinks about it.

1294
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,520
Speaker 1: And it's like, that doesn't seem to be a difficult

1295
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 1: thing to ask for from a professor. And by the way,

1296
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:05,879
Speaker 1: if you're an expert, you're going to have an opinion

1297
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 1: on which side is right right that I expect, but

1298
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: I want to hear the understanding of each side of

1299
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: the argument. Well that's so your son's getting a good education.

1300
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 1: That's what it's supposed to be.

1301
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 2: And for those that know some of my debates about

1302
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 2: NATO expansion in Ukraine and Russia, first second week of

1303
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 2: my class on a Great Power competition is John Mursheimer

1304
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 2: at the University of Chicago. We could not agree disagree

1305
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 2: more in terms of our theories of international politics. But

1306
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,760
Speaker 2: I want my students to read John. And by the way, Chuck,

1307
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 2: I did a poll last time I taught it. The

1308
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 2: majority of my class actually agreed with Mursheimer and not me,

1309
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: even after twelve weeks of me.

1310
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: So, but that's the way it's got to be. That's

1311
01:16:52,000 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: the way it's got to be. Yeah, no, I mean,

1312
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: and I assume. But when I want to get back

1313
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 1: to your book, because I want to get back to

1314
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: Europe here a second, so I know we don't have

1315
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: too much time left. His is the only beneficiary of

1316
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 1: what's happened over the last ten years been Europe's at Europe.

1317
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: And I say this in that I feel like there's

1318
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: a strength in the EU that didn't exist ten years ago,

1319
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 1: didn't exist twenty years ago, there is now. Look, each

1320
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 1: of these countries have their own polarizing debates that look

1321
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 1: like ours, right the UK, France, Italy, Germany. We're seeing

1322
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: it pop up everywhere in Western democracies. Don't get me wrong,

1323
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,640
Speaker 1: but the collective action of the European Union has been

1324
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: quite impressive. Yes, and in some ways they're like, Okay,

1325
01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:59,680
Speaker 1: America is not going to be here anymore. We've got

1326
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: to take matters into our own hands. And there's been

1327
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 1: a ton more cooperation than I expected. I think we

1328
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: all thought Europe would fracture without us being the glue.

1329
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: You know, that's a great observation. I agree.

1330
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 2: It of course started when Putin invaded, or to be

1331
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 2: more correct, he invaded Ukraine in twenty fourteen, and that

1332
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 2: war persisted.

1333
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: Our president sometimes forgets that.

1334
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 2: The war went on the entire first term of the

1335
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:29,719
Speaker 2: Trump administration, but then he escalated. The full scale invasion

1336
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 2: was twenty twenty two, and that helped to bring Europe together.

1337
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 2: Without question. That was the first big event. But the

1338
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 2: second big event was the reelection of President Trump. And

1339
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 2: I was at the Munich Security conference when the vice president,

1340
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 2: Vice President jad Vance came and lectured them about democracy.

1341
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: It was a pretty shocking speech. The Europeans were in shock,

1342
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 2: and that's in the hallways. The whole conversation was all right,

1343
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 2: we are now alone. We have to get our act together.

1344
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:03,799
Speaker 1: Because they saw the next president. In JD Vance's comments,

1345
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: didn't they They weren't looking at that as that's what

1346
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 1: the Vice President is saying. He'sle as far as the

1347
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: Europeans are concerned, they just assume he's the next most

1348
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: likely person to be president. And by the way, odds

1349
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: are that's correct, right, okay, right now. I mean he

1350
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: may not may be only a twenty percent chance, but

1351
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: no one has a higher percent. Right, he is the

1352
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: most likely next president of the United States. So Europeans, that's

1353
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: how they viewed that speech. I assume that's right.

1354
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so they did two or three really big

1355
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 2: important things. So one greater unity, and we've seen the

1356
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 2: emergence of some new leaders. That's helped, especially in Germany.

1357
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: But even even even like the Italian Prime Minister. I mean,

1358
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:43,559
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people weren't sure about her,

1359
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 1: and she's been she's had a nice stip spine on this.

1360
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: I am with you one hundred percent. He is fantastic.

1361
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: I was just in Italy about a month ago at

1362
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:54,839
Speaker 2: a conference that was about Europe.

1363
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: Has been also about a time politics. She was not

1364
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: there this time, but many of her leadership was. But

1365
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean she's still in power, which says a lot

1366
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: and they were talking about that.

1367
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 2: I'm not an expert in Italian politics, learned a lot

1368
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: in a week. And you know, they've had more stability

1369
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 2: with their governments under Maloney than they've had you know,

1370
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 2: for most of the earlier peer.

1371
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 1: They're more stable than France.

1372
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 2: And also the southern part of Europe is growing at

1373
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 2: a higher rate than the northern part. That's also new.

1374
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 2: That didn't used to be the case. But she's been fantastic.

1375
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 2: Another guy, he's just in Washington this week, President Alexander

1376
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 2: Stubb from Finland. Not many people know alex I know

1377
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 2: him personally. He's a big thinker. He's got a book

1378
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 2: just like mine coming out soon, similar themes. I blurbed it.

1379
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure he wants that blurb now. You know,

1380
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 2: this is before the election that I blurned.

1381
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 1: Because he's got to have relations with Trump. But he's

1382
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 1: good at that.

1383
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 2: And what I would say is two things that want

1384
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 2: more unity for two, greater clarity on why they have

1385
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 2: to stop Putin's army and Ukraine because if we're seeing,

1386
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, the threats are growing and that's been happening

1387
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 2: for two or three years, but now they're all focused

1388
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 2: on it, right Sokorski, by the way, is another one

1389
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 2: of these new leaders, Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Minister Poland fantastic, big,

1390
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 2: big thing kind of guy. But then three, they are

1391
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 2: collectively dealing with President Trump, I think, in a more

1392
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 2: sophisticated way than they did the first time around.

1393
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 1: You know, when Trump went if a Democratic Party could

1394
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 1: learn a lesson or two in that, yes, yes, but

1395
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:42,519
Speaker 1: will you know more about that than I do?

1396
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 2: But you know, Trump decided to meet with Putin in Alaska,

1397
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 2: give him the big summit and roll out the red carpet.

1398
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 2: And I just want to say, like, I support the

1399
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,479
Speaker 2: president for trying to end this war. He's putting effort in.

1400
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 2: I give him credit for that. Number two, he's engaging

1401
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 2: with the Russians. You have to do that to try

1402
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 2: to end the war. I support this. That's controversial in

1403
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 2: my world, but I support that. And we're talking about

1404
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 2: a guy, you know, Putin, who I believe is evil.

1405
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: He's killed friends of mine, He's killing Ukrainians every single night.

1406
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 2: You still have to talk to them. But the mistake

1407
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 2: of Alaska was it was all about the meeting and

1408
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 2: not about the substance. And you know, he should read

1409
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 2: George Schultz's memoirs about how you know, you got to

1410
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 2: have an agenda for these meetings and you don't have

1411
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: to check your values at the door to meet with

1412
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 2: thoughts like Putin. But then I said on on camera,

1413
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 2: you know for NBC names by the way, I'm still

1414
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 2: with them for a little bit longer. I said, whoever

1415
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 2: had the brilliant idea of having all the Europeans come

1416
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 2: and meet with Zelenski with the President two days after

1417
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 2: that Alaska summit, that was a brilliant idea. I don't

1418
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 2: know who idea it was, but I can tell you

1419
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: that the White House claimed it was their idea, yeah,

1420
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 2: and put out I don't get quoted by the White

1421
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 2: House too much check these days, but they put out

1422
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 2: a press statement saying mc fall believes that Trump was

1423
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 2: brilliant to organize that meeting. I'm pretty sure I know

1424
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 2: that it wasn't a Trump idea, but it was a

1425
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 2: really brilliant thing. And they're showing that they can work together.

1426
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:26,520
Speaker 2: That's that's a big accomplishment.

1427
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:29,799
Speaker 1: So the upside of Europe. Why do I feel nervous

1428
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: that even though there's a need for collectivism in Asia,

1429
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: we're not going to get it, and this is I

1430
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 1: guess I need to get you out of here on this.

1431
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 1: But considering it felt like the Quad was going to

1432
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 1: be the beginning of something. Yes, and now we've got

1433
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: a trade war with India. You know, I'm intrigued by

1434
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: the new leader in Japan. I'm very intrigued to see

1435
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 1: how she does. There. Seems to be right, and it'll

1436
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 1: be interesting to see them. Them doubling their defense spending

1437
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,759
Speaker 1: is a b FD. I think I agree on that front.

1438
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 1: But it feels like we're a long way away from

1439
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: some sort of collective security agreement there.

1440
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 2: So I agree, and tragically I agree. In my book,

1441
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 2: I write about so the books about you know, Cold War,

1442
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 2: great power competition. I look at power, ideology, global order.

1443
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: But then, because there was this debate about the Cold War,

1444
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:26,520
Speaker 2: I have three chapters of prescriptions. One is about mistakes

1445
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 2: by the way Chuck during the Cold War, which a

1446
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 2: lot of Americans forget because we won the Cold War,

1447
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 2: so we forget about the mistakes. Sure, but you know,

1448
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: I coached third grade basketball for years, and you know,

1449
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 2: when you win, everybody forgets about when your star player

1450
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 2: fell out.

1451
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: There's still there's still stuff on film you need.

1452
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 2: To fix exactly, and so I won't go through that now.

1453
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 2: But we did do a lot of big mistakes. We

1454
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 2: can't repeat them, and we are tiptoeing towards.

1455
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: Some of them.

1456
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,480
Speaker 2: But the successes that I have a whole chapter on successes,

1457
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:00,200
Speaker 2: and the one is about allies and how we got

1458
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 2: our allies together in Europe, and I pretty provocatively in

1459
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 2: this book say we need more collective security and even

1460
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 2: a NATO like structure in Asia to deal with the

1461
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 2: rise of China's today. And I think we do need that,

1462
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: and I spend more. I can't go to Rush anymore.

1463
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 2: So I spend a lot of time in Asia these days,

1464
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:26,759
Speaker 2: and tragically it's moving in exactly the opposite direction, partly

1465
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 2: because of Trump, partly because the you know, the more

1466
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 2: leftists took over in South Korea, partly because of the

1467
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:35,640
Speaker 2: crisis inside Japan, you know, the trading brand ministers. But

1468
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:38,639
Speaker 2: we are not there yet, and I'm nervous about that.

1469
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 2: I'm nervous about that. I was just in Taiwan a

1470
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 2: few months ago. They are nervous about it too, that

1471
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 2: they should. I just feel like we might sell them out.

1472
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 2: And I think that would be a big disaster.

1473
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:52,320
Speaker 1: I thought Scott Besson put it on the sellout list,

1474
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 1: I mean the negotiating list. Yes, sorry, I mean that

1475
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 1: looked like we know where that's at it. Sadly, I

1476
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: think that's going to take hostile action by China. Before

1477
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 1: before everybody says, hey, wait, maybe we had to put

1478
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:08,759
Speaker 1: together a coalition.

1479
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 2: Well and back to your you know you're analogizing from before.

1480
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 2: That might be the wake up thing that we need tragically,

1481
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 2: because because as the thirties prove, as you know better,

1482
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,320
Speaker 2: why but we were asleep and we put our head

1483
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 2: in the sands and we said, what you know, Italians

1484
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 2: went into Ethiopia, nobody knew where that was.

1485
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: Japanese went into China, and it's like, you know, why

1486
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:32,679
Speaker 1: do we care?

1487
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 2: And even when Stalin and Hitler both went into Poland,

1488
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 2: you know, in thirty nine, and then Stalin went into

1489
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,679
Speaker 2: a bunch of other countries, still millions of Americans said,

1490
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: you don't have a you know, that's not where's that

1491
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 2: that's far away. It reminds me so much of what

1492
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 2: I hear about Ukraine, and it took forty one to

1493
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 2: wake us up. It might have to be something much

1494
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 2: more kinetic with the Chinese, make us realize that we

1495
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 2: can't prevail in the twenty fifth three without being engaged.

1496
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: Well, the only region we didn't do was the Middle East,

1497
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: and I know I gotta let you go, So I'm

1498
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 1: not gonna there's I could one last question you, but

1499
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: it's tough.

1500
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 2: I'll just say one quick thing, some good news so

1501
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,640
Speaker 2: you know, I give the President and his team some

1502
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 2: credit there. They got a long ways to go. We

1503
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 2: need to celebrate good news when it happens, and this

1504
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 2: week was good news for the president.

1505
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: Is it his skill set uniquely suited to the Middle East? Oddly?

1506
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 1: Do you buy that earlier?

1507
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 2: This works with those leaders and Prime Minister net and Yahoo,

1508
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure those those methods are transferable to

1509
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 2: guys like.

1510
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:46,600
Speaker 1: Putin and she. No, that's I think the that's the

1511
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 1: real lesson learned there, because those guys still have they

1512
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: actually do have ideologies. Correct the other guys power. They

1513
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:54,679
Speaker 1: are not They are not dependent on us. The other

1514
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: guys are are really transactionalists.

1515
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:00,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Mike.

1516
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: I Uh, it is a big book. I still got

1517
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 1: I still got to finish making my way through it.

1518
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: But it is definitely a readable book, which that's always important.

1519
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: So well done, my friend, appreciate that. Thanks, thanks having me.

1520
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: H well, I hope you enjoyed that uh tour of

1521
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,760
Speaker 1: the world with my friend Mike McFall And do get

1522
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:34,280
Speaker 1: the book. Yes it's a readable book. Yes it's a

1523
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: big book. Okay, both things can be true. And it's

1524
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: a it's a good long holiday weekend set of reading.

1525
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 1: So maybe it's something you think about for either your

1526
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,479
Speaker 1: the Turkey week or UH or the end of the

1527
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 1: year holidays. All right, let's do some questions and then

1528
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,720
Speaker 1: I'll do my little college football preview for the week

1529
01:28:54,960 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 1: as jerk. This comes from Chase Rock, Arkansas. Anyways. Well,

1530
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: after another derailed Arkansas Razorback football season. Si oh, my

1531
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 1: uncle Joe concurs, I've shifted my attention to the new

1532
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 1: season of the Morning Show. Giving your experience in the industry,

1533
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:16,719
Speaker 1: I'm curious how closely does the show reflect the inner

1534
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 1: workings of a real network news operation. Is it anywhere

1535
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: near reality? Pure dramatized fiction. Would love to hear your take.

1536
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: Oh man, all right, you're gonna get my whininess about

1537
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:31,759
Speaker 1: this stuff. It is. It is more fiction than real.

1538
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: Do they get, you know, I would argue in the

1539
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: first season, you know, and look, I'm never never a

1540
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: fan of these shows as much that involve things that

1541
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 1: involve entities that I've actually been a part of or

1542
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 1: have covered. Right, you know, the West Wing used to

1543
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: frustrate me because it is just not how Washington worked.

1544
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: It is. It is Veep, right, that is more likely,

1545
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 1: certainly at least how the how, the how, how how

1546
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 1: Washington politicians behave and how they really are. Veep is

1547
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,799
Speaker 1: more accurate. And it doesn't matter the party of the person,

1548
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 1: the the the sort of the the lack of self awareness,

1549
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: the uh, the narcissism that Julie Julia Louis Dreyfus's character

1550
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 1: emits is all very much in line. You talk to

1551
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,840
Speaker 1: any political operative left and right and they would say, oh, yeah,

1552
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:38,880
Speaker 1: Veep is much closer. So, you know, I used to

1553
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: because I do think some people watch it and think

1554
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 1: this is the way it should be, and I just

1555
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 1: would argue, the West Wing has never been that way.

1556
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:49,519
Speaker 1: It is literally a utopian version of how life works,

1557
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 1: or actually life never has worked, at least in the

1558
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: political sense. And I would argue with the you know,

1559
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 1: I felt a lot of the Sorkin work, which I love, Right,

1560
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: It's just like I love a few good men, but

1561
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 1: I don't know the jag world that well, and I'm

1562
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:06,679
Speaker 1: sure it doesn't work that way in real life, right

1563
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 1: that Tom Cruise is going to, you know, be thundering

1564
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 1: away at Colonel Jessup and all of that. So I

1565
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:19,280
Speaker 1: just I'm just, you know, I'm suspect on the Morning Show.

1566
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 1: It is based loosely in a book that was written

1567
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 1: by Brian Stelter about the Morning Show Wars. So what

1568
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: I would say is that there was a time when

1569
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:33,639
Speaker 1: there was these outsized personalities. There were the executives behind

1570
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: the scenes who felt that they were star makers. We

1571
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:41,640
Speaker 1: will designate you an anchor and you must leave, you know,

1572
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, And there was some truthiness that

1573
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 1: that is the way it is. But it is really

1574
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: more of a twentieth century phenomenon. It led into the

1575
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 1: twenty first century. I mean, the I to this day

1576
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 1: don't know if Matt Lauer made the amount of money

1577
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 1: that was reported about him. For those of us even

1578
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 1: within it was a shocking amount, and it certainly made

1579
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people related to me assume that I

1580
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,720
Speaker 1: was far wealthier than I am, or I made far

1581
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 1: more money than I actually did. It was always an

1582
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, it was a bit uncomfortable. How often

1583
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 1: it's like, what am I going to do? Go out

1584
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 1: there and say, no, that's just you know. I did

1585
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 1: get a piece of advice once from somebody that said,

1586
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: if you never want, if you never want your how

1587
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 1: much you make to leak in the public, don't tell

1588
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,760
Speaker 1: anybody because the minute you tell one person, somebody is,

1589
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 1: you know, outside your basically immediate family, it's going to

1590
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: get out. And the fact is nobody's ever accurately had

1591
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 1: my ever because I've never told anybody. I refuse. I

1592
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:50,640
Speaker 1: don't tell any extended family member, nobody, nobody's business, nobody should.

1593
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: These larger contracts, a lot of times there are people

1594
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 1: that want to brag that they were able to get

1595
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 1: that amount of money for somebody. So maybe it's an agent,

1596
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: maybe it's a lawyer, or maybe it's whatever. Sometimes it's

1597
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: the principle themselves think that it somehow makes them a

1598
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,719
Speaker 1: bigger star if they're seen as being worth a certain

1599
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: amount of money. So I would say what the Morning

1600
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 1: Show captures sort of what that world was like when

1601
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 1: I first entered it in twenty eight, twenty oh seven,

1602
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:25,640
Speaker 1: twenty eight and twenty oh nine. But literally by the

1603
01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 1: time of the end of the Great Recession in twenty

1604
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 1: twelve and twenty thirteen, the place stopped. You know, it

1605
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,639
Speaker 1: was sort of it is, you know, you stopped having

1606
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: the larger than life anchors who could get executives fired.

1607
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 1: I did see that in my early days. So, you know,

1608
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the way to watch the Morning Show is this is

1609
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:51,679
Speaker 1: the way that this world worked for about the first

1610
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 1: decade of the twenty first century. This is not how

1611
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: the world of Today's show works or Good Morning America.

1612
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I'm not saying that there isn't some

1613
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: attempt in the world of Page six and some of

1614
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 1: these other gossip columns to try to create drama where

1615
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:09,960
Speaker 1: there isn't any, But it doesn't have near the amount

1616
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 1: of drama because frankly, the stakes have never been lower. Right,

1617
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 1: everybody's losing audience. The fight for exclusives isn't the same anymore.

1618
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 1: But you know, if you were asked me, when is

1619
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,680
Speaker 1: the Morning Show sort of peak? Sort of the zeitgeist

1620
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:28,519
Speaker 1: of it that it's trying to capture in reality is

1621
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:33,639
Speaker 1: somewhere Serkha, I would basically say the peak Morning show

1622
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: power was probably mid nineties to twenty to twenty twelve,

1623
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 1: and in that sense that that culture which the Morning

1624
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 1: Show still seems to lean on is that. But I

1625
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 1: will make a confession, I won't watch it. I watch

1626
01:34:54,439 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 1: enough to understand where they're going, because I don't even

1627
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:02,559
Speaker 1: want to see how they're trying to portray people that

1628
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: I know, and they're not portraying them correctly. I don't

1629
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 1: even want to get into that game. And so it

1630
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 1: is kind of why I kind of I'm not a

1631
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:16,880
Speaker 1: viewer of the show anyway. All right, next question comes

1632
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: from Mattam. Hey love the new podcast. I come for

1633
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 1: the political analysis and stay for the college football talk.

1634
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 1: I appreciate saying that because more college football is coming up.

1635
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:26,559
Speaker 1: In a few minutes, you mentioned how the new rules

1636
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:28,800
Speaker 1: have made FBS football feel more like the NFL. But

1637
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on fcs and Division two and

1638
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: three programs as the truer representation of college athletics. My

1639
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 1: alma mater, Presbyterian College is a great example. For years

1640
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 1: of struggle, they've turned things around and are now six

1641
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 1: and oh proving that good leadership and love of the

1642
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 1: game still matter, Matt m Look, I do think you're

1643
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 1: going to see it's going to be interesting about the

1644
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 1: way D three works and actually how D three could

1645
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: end up being sort of for the love of the

1646
01:35:57,160 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: game division on that front, and obviously with some D

1647
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: two in that. But I emphasize D three because my

1648
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: beloved University Miami Hurricanes won the D three hockey championship

1649
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 1: and they're a rec team. They never actually are, they

1650
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:15,720
Speaker 1: don't play, they're not a Division one team. They don't

1651
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: have an on site facility to practice in or anything

1652
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: like that. I think the I think there will be

1653
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:31,679
Speaker 1: somewhere something in between rec and this professionalized minor league

1654
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:36,120
Speaker 1: football that's being created, right, which will you know, I

1655
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 1: think you're going to see a whole bunch of Division

1656
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 1: one schools go down to D three. There won't be scholarships,

1657
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: and so it will be more of the for the

1658
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 1: love of the game type of stuff, and I you know,

1659
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 1: in that look, sports is still important to alumni. Sports

1660
01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 1: is still I'm very friendly with the president of GW

1661
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:04,679
Speaker 1: where I went. She's new president, Ellen Gramberg. I'm biased.

1662
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,000
Speaker 1: I think she's terrific. I think She's been a breath

1663
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 1: of fresh air for the university. She views sports as

1664
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 1: a way to build community. It's look, it's there's a

1665
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 1: financial cost to it if you want to be competing

1666
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 1: on that division ie level, and there's always some set

1667
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 1: of donors that want to do that. But she also

1668
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 1: believes that there's you know, wouldn't be a surprise if

1669
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:28,200
Speaker 1: you see a lot of the mid major conferences sort

1670
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 1: of get cut in half because schools decide they don't

1671
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:35,040
Speaker 1: want to try to keep up financially to try to

1672
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 1: be you know, even just mid level relevant and Division

1673
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 1: I college basketball for instance, and instead drop down to

1674
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: D three and if you can still keep a culture,

1675
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 1: I mean, because that sports does create community on college

1676
01:37:49,200 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: campuses and content and that is part of the student

1677
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 1: experience and it's becoming an important part of recruiting students

1678
01:37:55,560 --> 01:38:00,639
Speaker 1: to apply to schools. So I'm hopeful, well, I want

1679
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:03,360
Speaker 1: it to be that. I want to have that nostalgia,

1680
01:38:05,439 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: But I wonder if we start to see something that's

1681
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 1: a little more that you have. And I'd love to

1682
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:17,200
Speaker 1: see the NCAA change these rules. I think every school

1683
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 1: should be able to find something their division one in

1684
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:21,200
Speaker 1: and right now I think you can be Division one

1685
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 1: in one sport and then Division three and everything else.

1686
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 1: I think you have that in hockey, there's a I

1687
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 1: think Colorado College is one of those, if I'm not mistaken.

1688
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 1: I'd like to see that more loosened up a little

1689
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:37,719
Speaker 1: bit where you pick and shows it, you know, because

1690
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 1: you're going to have certain sports that maybe you have

1691
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:43,679
Speaker 1: the alumni financial network to support to be Division one,

1692
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:46,559
Speaker 1: and then certain sports that you don't, but you still

1693
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:48,519
Speaker 1: want to have students feel as if there's something to

1694
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:51,080
Speaker 1: play for and compete with and have in the world

1695
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:53,439
Speaker 1: of Division three, I'd love to see a little more

1696
01:38:53,479 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 1: flexibility there. I think it's a way to sort of

1697
01:38:55,920 --> 01:39:00,599
Speaker 1: keep up the spirit of amateur athletics at the same

1698
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:05,080
Speaker 1: time embrace this new world that that is the reality

1699
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 1: of the revenues generating sports in college. All right, next

1700
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 1: question two part question here it comes from John from Frisco, Texas.

1701
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm learning more about Frisco, another one of these growing

1702
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 1: ex serb suburbs of the Dallas area of the Metroplex.

1703
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 1: Anyway to our question. Love the show and have followed

1704
01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,360
Speaker 1: the podcast from your Meet the Press days. Given Greg

1705
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 1: Abbot's enthusiasm for supporting the Trump administration by sending the

1706
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 1: Texas Guard to Chicago. Do you think that the Texas

1707
01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:39,320
Speaker 1: governor is using the national notoriety as a launching point

1708
01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 1: towards twenty twenty eight in the Republican nomination. You've mentioned

1709
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: that members of the administration maybe I'm twenty twenty eight,

1710
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,800
Speaker 1: but may not have as much of a resume to

1711
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:50,080
Speaker 1: run on. Would Abbot be more formidable in the primary. Also,

1712
01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:52,559
Speaker 1: what sorts of other non political podcasts do you listen to?

1713
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned some economics ones. Would you name

1714
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:57,759
Speaker 1: some of them here? Thanks? Love the show, Go Caines

1715
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 1: John from Frisco, Texas. So, look, I think Abbott wants

1716
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:03,040
Speaker 1: to be would like to try to run for president.

1717
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:06,559
Speaker 1: I think Dave Carney, his chief political advisor, who I've

1718
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 1: known forever, one of the savvier Republican strategists out there,

1719
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 1: has some unique New Hampshire ties, and he could certainly

1720
01:40:16,360 --> 01:40:20,439
Speaker 1: help Abbot there. I just don't know if Abbot's going

1721
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: to be able to be I don't know what his

1722
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 1: lane is, right. You know, one of the stories that

1723
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 1: I meant to bring up at the start of this

1724
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:32,880
Speaker 1: podcast that I didn't get to was the story about

1725
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:38,160
Speaker 1: how Christy Nomes government paid ad campaign praising you know,

1726
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 1: sort of praising President Trump for the elevated deportations. It's

1727
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:48,640
Speaker 1: funny the coverage of it is being portrayed as you know,

1728
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:53,080
Speaker 1: this ad campaign to support the Trump administration. I look

1729
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:57,679
Speaker 1: at it as a taxpayer funded ad campaign to promote

1730
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:01,479
Speaker 1: Christy Nome for president in twenty twenty eight. The point

1731
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 1: is is that you have Christy Nome wanting to run

1732
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,280
Speaker 1: for president, Tulsea Gabbert wants to run for president, RFK

1733
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:11,600
Speaker 1: Junior wants to run for president, Marco Rubio wants to

1734
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 1: do it. Maybe he joins as a ticket with JD Vance.

1735
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 1: What do Donald Trump Junior Eric Trump end up doing?

1736
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 1: I think they both have some interesting ambition. Is twenty

1737
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 1: eighth the year that they try to execute it. The

1738
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,519
Speaker 1: point is is that and then you have Rand Paul

1739
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 1: and Glenn Younkin who are clearly going to not run

1740
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,040
Speaker 1: as MAGA candidates. All these other candidates I mentioned are

1741
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:35,040
Speaker 1: all going to try to be in the Magalene. What

1742
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 1: is Abbot going to do? Right? Abbott in some ways

1743
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:42,080
Speaker 1: has succeeded in Texas politics because he's been He's been

1744
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:44,840
Speaker 1: somebody that hasn't been seen as on one side or

1745
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:47,879
Speaker 1: the other in this intra party war that is happening

1746
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:51,439
Speaker 1: in Texas. Right, Cornyn v. Paxton in the Senate primary

1747
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:55,479
Speaker 1: is actually more than about John Cornyn and more than

1748
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: you know, sort of a maga versus the Rhinos whatever

1749
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 1: you want to describe if you're on the snarky right,

1750
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was a Republican controlled House

1751
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:11,160
Speaker 1: of State House or representatives in Texas that impeached Ken Paxton, right,

1752
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:14,559
Speaker 1: it was. This has been a bipartisan effort, but it's

1753
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 1: really been sort of a divide inside the Texas Republican Party.

1754
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:23,599
Speaker 1: And Abbott, you know, is times nervous about the Ken

1755
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:26,559
Speaker 1: Paxton and Dan Patrick wing. Dan Patrick the lieutenant governor,

1756
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: and in Texas, the lieutenant governor in some ways has

1757
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:35,920
Speaker 1: more actual policy power than the governor, being the president

1758
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,400
Speaker 1: of the Senate and really sort of very much has

1759
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:41,000
Speaker 1: a lot more influence at times on the legislature than

1760
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,719
Speaker 1: the governor does. But Patrick's clearly to Abbot's right, Paxton

1761
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,760
Speaker 1: clearly to Habbits right. Abbott definitely you know, came up

1762
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,360
Speaker 1: more through as an ag during the Rick Perry came

1763
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:52,800
Speaker 1: up through sort of the Bush and Perry years of

1764
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 1: the Republican Party, and Perry, all you might say, is

1765
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:59,880
Speaker 1: slightly more conservative than w I mean, you know, Perry

1766
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:02,479
Speaker 1: never you know, this is the guy that once called

1767
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 1: Donald Trump a cancer on conservatism. We used to run

1768
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 1: these clips so often. I used to know them all

1769
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:13,439
Speaker 1: cancer on conservatism that he said multiple times the day

1770
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: he dropped out of the race, and an attempt to

1771
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 1: consolidate an anti Trump candidate back in the twenty sixteen race,

1772
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:23,720
Speaker 1: remember he ran twice. He was a front runner for

1773
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,679
Speaker 1: about two days until he couldn't figure out which which

1774
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 1: of the three agencies he wanted to eliminate, and that

1775
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 1: sort of went the campaign went south there. So I

1776
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 1: just don't know if Abbot has a as a as

1777
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 1: an easy lane. I think Abbot only becomes a viable

1778
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 1: candidate if MAGA is seen as a broken ideology or

1779
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 1: as a as a net negative in the Republican Party

1780
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight. What's the likelihood of that, right?

1781
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:01,840
Speaker 1: I think I definitely think Abbot's itching to do something

1782
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 1: else and he wants to run for president. But I

1783
01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, I just I don't know what he doesn't

1784
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:14,599
Speaker 1: he's not comfortably mega. He tries to be Mega adjacent,

1785
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 1: but he's also you know, he does he does end up.

1786
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:23,120
Speaker 1: I think he's a closet Chamber of Commerce Republican who

1787
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:26,320
Speaker 1: is trying to play mega and every once in a

1788
01:44:26,360 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 1: while that comes through. So I don't see it. That

1789
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean he won't try. He's going to want to

1790
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 1: do it. You know, he would be the third straight

1791
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 1: Texas governor to try to do this. W did it.

1792
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:45,280
Speaker 1: Perry ran twice and it didn't go well, and you'd

1793
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,599
Speaker 1: have Abbot there. Abbitt's on the verge of Actually, Rick

1794
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 1: Perry's the longest serving governor, and now Abbot, if he

1795
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 1: wins this reelection, is going to end up uh surpassing

1796
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 1: that mark. So I'm a I'm I'm a bit I'm

1797
01:44:57,400 --> 01:45:00,400
Speaker 1: a bit more skeptical. So you're asking me my pod casts,

1798
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:05,920
Speaker 1: how much do I confess trying to see here? How

1799
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 1: much do I confess to some of these gambling podcasts

1800
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: that I listened to? But you're asking what I listened to?

1801
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 1: So I listened to Simmons, I listened to Kornheiser, their

1802
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 1: pals during football season. There's a couple of I like

1803
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: the guys at the Action Network. Their football previews some

1804
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 1: of the best there's there's I can't even I keep

1805
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:34,000
Speaker 1: forgetting the guys. He goes by his last name his

1806
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 1: last name only. I'm drawing a blank on it. I

1807
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:42,519
Speaker 1: think it's Sharky or Stucky. Excuse me. Sharky's another friend

1808
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:48,400
Speaker 1: of mine, a guy named Stucky. I enjoy his football previews.

1809
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 1: I think they're very good. Other podcasts that I enjoy

1810
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: I listened to something the White House sixteen hundred Sessions.

1811
01:45:56,320 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 1: This is basically the White House Historical Association. They always

1812
01:45:59,880 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 1: have some fun sort of history nuggets about presidents. They

1813
01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:09,719
Speaker 1: have one on presidential pets that I have found myself enjoying.

1814
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:16,639
Speaker 1: The Acquired podcast. These are these huge, long deep dives

1815
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 1: on like how did Google become Google? And it's almost

1816
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:24,639
Speaker 1: like a like a biography of a company. They did

1817
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,160
Speaker 1: one on JP Morgan and had an hour long interview

1818
01:46:27,200 --> 01:46:32,320
Speaker 1: with Jamie Diamond that I felt found just super fascinating.

1819
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: And you know, look, their podcasts are commitments, so sometimes

1820
01:46:37,240 --> 01:46:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, they only put the big ones out once

1821
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: a month because it takes almost a month to do that.

1822
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 1: I enjoy the Bulwarks Hollywood podcast Sunny Bunch as sort

1823
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:54,240
Speaker 1: of an an entertainment culture that you know, talks a

1824
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:58,479
Speaker 1: little culture stuff in the media world I enjoy. I

1825
01:46:58,560 --> 01:47:01,719
Speaker 1: enjoy both the Ben Smith podcast on Semaphore and Dylan

1826
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 1: Buyer's on Puck. It's funny. I don't listen to many

1827
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:11,559
Speaker 1: political podcasts. I listened to sort of media podcasts on

1828
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:14,559
Speaker 1: that front. I'll listen to some issue specific stuff on

1829
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:20,840
Speaker 1: foreign policy and on domestic policy, and then I just

1830
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 1: grab highlights of some of the other political podcasts out

1831
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:25,320
Speaker 1: there that I know have have that but as far

1832
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 1: as my own personal those those are the ones that

1833
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:35,679
Speaker 1: do and I should. There's there's also there's one baseball

1834
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:40,519
Speaker 1: card podcast I consistently listen to. It's it's called There

1835
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:44,639
Speaker 1: Is No Off Season. I believe it's what it's called.

1836
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:49,680
Speaker 1: And uh I they do a pretty good job of

1837
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:54,639
Speaker 1: sort of assessing the market for sports cards. So there,

1838
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:58,280
Speaker 1: I probably revealed too much about my habits, but you asked,

1839
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: and I thought i'd chair. I'm gonna take one more

1840
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:05,200
Speaker 1: question here and do my little college football preview here.

1841
01:48:05,960 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 1: This comes from Aaron from Skokie, Illinois. Why are conservatives

1842
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,040
Speaker 1: attacking bad bunnies? Citizenship? It's hard to believe they don't

1843
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:15,040
Speaker 1: know he's an American citizen. Yeah, I know, Puerto Rico

1844
01:48:15,160 --> 01:48:18,080
Speaker 1: is one of those. Apparently that's one of those trick

1845
01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:21,120
Speaker 1: questions on the test right just feels like a blatant

1846
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:23,200
Speaker 1: display of racism. If they were honest and said they

1847
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 1: simply don't like that the Super Bowl halftime show will

1848
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:27,479
Speaker 1: be in Spanish, they might actually find more agreement than

1849
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 1: they expect. I'm a Mexican American but don't speak Spanish

1850
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:32,320
Speaker 1: and his music isn't really my style yet now, because

1851
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:34,920
Speaker 1: of his backlash, even people like me feel compelled to

1852
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 1: watch just to push back against the hate. The idea

1853
01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:39,880
Speaker 1: of replacing him with Lee Greenwood is laughable. There's zero

1854
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:44,080
Speaker 1: chance that happens, right, pr Nightmare, thanks for the show. Look, Aaron,

1855
01:48:44,120 --> 01:48:47,640
Speaker 1: you're not wrong, and you know I'm now of the

1856
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 1: age that I expect whoever's picked is somebody that isn't

1857
01:48:50,200 --> 01:48:52,719
Speaker 1: appealing to me. You know, I know what the NFL

1858
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:54,960
Speaker 1: is up to. They're trying to appeal to a younger demographic,

1859
01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 1: and they're really trying to appeal to a more Latino demographic.

1860
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 1: The single, by the way, the single most streamed. You know,

1861
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 1: he said, what was it, Ronda Santis attack Bad Bunny.

1862
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't you know, I don't even know

1863
01:49:09,120 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 1: who this guy is. Well, he was only the most

1864
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:15,160
Speaker 1: streamed artist in the state of Florida according to Spotify

1865
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 1: in calendar year twenty twenty four. So a lot of

1866
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:22,479
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis's constituents seem to know who Bad Bunny is.

1867
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:28,719
Speaker 1: But whenever you're picking any genre of music, you're gonna

1868
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 1: alienate people who don't like that genre of music. It,

1869
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure a lot of when they did

1870
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 1: the Who, there were a lot of people going, why

1871
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 1: are they doing old people music? Right? So it's a

1872
01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: it's obvious to me this is it's almost always the

1873
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:53,439
Speaker 1: halftime show feels like an attempt to talk to a

1874
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:56,040
Speaker 1: demographic that the NFL feels like that they don't know

1875
01:49:56,080 --> 01:49:58,920
Speaker 1: how to talk to h and they use an artist

1876
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:01,439
Speaker 1: to try to do that, and frankly, they're pretty smart

1877
01:50:01,479 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 1: about it. The NFL continues to grow its fan base.

1878
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 1: They're the most you know, the thing that everybody ought

1879
01:50:08,160 --> 01:50:11,360
Speaker 1: to respect here in the NFL. I think has learned this,

1880
01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, sort of figuring out how to try to

1881
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:20,080
Speaker 1: get above the culture wars right, Colin Kaeperne put them

1882
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:22,960
Speaker 1: knee deep into the culture wars between. Really, Donald Trump

1883
01:50:23,320 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 1: suck them into the culture wars more than anything. But

1884
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 1: when you look at the demographics of football fans, it

1885
01:50:31,479 --> 01:50:35,120
Speaker 1: looks like the demographics of the country right when I

1886
01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:40,440
Speaker 1: mean football is the single most sort of honest representation

1887
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:44,839
Speaker 1: of the It is literally something like thirty seven percent Republican,

1888
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:47,800
Speaker 1: thirty seven percent Democrat right, and everybody else independent. I mean,

1889
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:52,120
Speaker 1: it's like the actual presidential electorate is represented. You know

1890
01:50:53,280 --> 01:50:57,160
Speaker 1: amongst football fans. Most other sports haven't have a lean right.

1891
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 1: Baseball fans it leans right, golf fans that leans right,

1892
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 1: NBA fans lean left, NHL fans lean right like WNBA

1893
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: fans lean left. So you see, there's some of the

1894
01:51:09,160 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 1: sports you kind of like you could look you just

1895
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:15,200
Speaker 1: look at the crowd when you see go to a

1896
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 1: game and you have an idea of the because our

1897
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:21,720
Speaker 1: politics is in some ways is so identity based right now.

1898
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:26,120
Speaker 1: But I would caution everybody be careful. I mean, the

1899
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:29,439
Speaker 1: NFL is America. It is a tapestry. It is the

1900
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 1: NFL fan base is the complicated picture of America. That

1901
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:41,160
Speaker 1: is an asset for the NFL, and I do think

1902
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:45,040
Speaker 1: when it comes to their attempts to do more outreach,

1903
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:48,080
Speaker 1: particularly in the Western hemisphere, they've now had back to

1904
01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 1: back years of games in Brazil. There's no doubt in

1905
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:56,519
Speaker 1: my mind that I think Mexico City, at some point

1906
01:51:56,640 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 1: or Monterey, one of the two is going to have

1907
01:51:59,080 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 1: a major league sport franchise, and maybe it's an NFL

1908
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:07,320
Speaker 1: team first, although the doubts. Cowboys, who have the largest

1909
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:10,559
Speaker 1: number of fans in Mexico, actually don't want to see

1910
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,559
Speaker 1: a Mexico City team because for the same reason they

1911
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: that they don't want a team in Austin, Texas either,

1912
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:19,320
Speaker 1: even though that's at a metro area that actually could

1913
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:22,960
Speaker 1: support one, because they want to have they want to

1914
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:25,639
Speaker 1: have the demographic to themselves. They want to make they

1915
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:29,519
Speaker 1: want to make money off off of that demographic. So

1916
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: I find the whole thing it's just a pretty closed

1917
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 1: minded way of thinking. I look at this when I

1918
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:38,400
Speaker 1: see these decisions, I'm like, oh, I need to understand

1919
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,760
Speaker 1: that this are the NFL is not picking somebody that

1920
01:52:40,840 --> 01:52:44,680
Speaker 1: isn't popular, Okay, so and I know that this is

1921
01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:47,200
Speaker 1: you know what, to me, the most amazing fact about

1922
01:52:47,200 --> 01:52:49,519
Speaker 1: what the NFL does is that they never pay the

1923
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 1: halftime they know they like. They basically say, if you

1924
01:52:53,160 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 1: you're going to make so much money becoming the halftime entertainment,

1925
01:52:56,479 --> 01:53:01,160
Speaker 1: we don't have to pay you. That is extraordinary, how

1926
01:53:01,200 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 1: powerful that they NiFi has that kind of power. So

1927
01:53:17,320 --> 01:53:19,960
Speaker 1: this is the first of what are going to be

1928
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:23,280
Speaker 1: a series of games for my beloved Miami Hurricanes where

1929
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:26,880
Speaker 1: they're supposed to win, and they're going to face a

1930
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 1: whole bunch of teams that they got the big target

1931
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:30,960
Speaker 1: on their back. And if you want to make a

1932
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:33,040
Speaker 1: name for yourself, you've got a shot at doing it.

1933
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:37,320
Speaker 1: I am petrified of this Louisville game. I'm glad it's

1934
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:41,719
Speaker 1: first of all. These standalone games on Thursday and Friday

1935
01:53:42,439 --> 01:53:46,320
Speaker 1: are just always, you know, feel like traps. You know,

1936
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:50,759
Speaker 1: my wife's beloved Florida State Seminoles lost them this Friday

1937
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:54,559
Speaker 1: night game at Charlottesville. Now, if this game we're at Louisville,

1938
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:57,280
Speaker 1: I'd be a lot more nervous. In fact, Miami has

1939
01:53:57,320 --> 01:54:02,200
Speaker 1: been through tough games. Louisville has always seen Miami as

1940
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 1: an aspirational rival, is what I would call it. Mimi.

1941
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 1: You know, like Louisville is you know, right. They they

1942
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 1: had Howard celiber as a coach after Miami. They recruit

1943
01:54:14,120 --> 01:54:16,680
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, they try to recruit anybody that

1944
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 1: Miami rejects down in Miami. That you look at their roster,

1945
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:22,760
Speaker 1: it's filled with a lot of South Florida guys. They

1946
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 1: actually won one of the bigger recruiting battles that I

1947
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 1: can remember about ten years ago, when they got Teddy Bridgewater.

1948
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 1: Teddy Bridgewaters should have been a University of Miami quarterback.

1949
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:34,560
Speaker 1: We had a guy named Jacorey Harris at the time.

1950
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 1: Teddy Bridgewater was actually his replacement at the same high

1951
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:39,720
Speaker 1: school that Jacorey Harris played at. Jack Cory Harris was

1952
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 1: a full four year starter, very good. Bridgewater was better.

1953
01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:46,600
Speaker 1: Bridgewater didn't want to sit behind Jacorey for two or

1954
01:54:46,640 --> 01:54:48,720
Speaker 1: three years, which is why I ended up going to Louisville.

1955
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm convinced had Bridgewaters come to Miami sat behind Harris

1956
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:55,720
Speaker 1: would have ended up probably having.

1957
01:54:57,240 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 2: Well.

1958
01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:00,280
Speaker 1: It certainly would have helped Miami's football program in the

1959
01:55:00,280 --> 01:55:04,080
Speaker 1: early in the early teens. But look, I'm nervous about it.

1960
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:08,520
Speaker 1: You know, right now, it's Miami against themselves for the

1961
01:55:08,520 --> 01:55:11,200
Speaker 1: rest of their schedule. On paper, if you look at

1962
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:13,680
Speaker 1: it analytically, they're going to be double digit favorites in

1963
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 1: every game they have left. To me, the nervous the

1964
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:20,240
Speaker 1: games that I'm nervous about going forward from Miami. One

1965
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:24,240
Speaker 1: is this Louisville game Friday night. And my daughter will

1966
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:27,360
Speaker 1: tell you traffic to hard Rock is a you know,

1967
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 1: it sucks on a Saturday. It really sucks on a

1968
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:34,080
Speaker 1: Friday evening. So I'm nervous about the crowd attendance though

1969
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 1: this year man, Miami fans have turned out even for

1970
01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:40,240
Speaker 1: sort of the you know, the the games that don't

1971
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 1: that aren't on the marquee, So I'm pretty pleased about that.

1972
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:49,080
Speaker 1: But that game has me nervous. The game at SMU

1973
01:55:49,320 --> 01:55:52,400
Speaker 1: Road game that'll be for Miami's first road game outside

1974
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 1: of the state of Florida on November first, And then

1975
01:55:56,360 --> 01:55:58,480
Speaker 1: of course the Pit game that's the last game, that's

1976
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:00,160
Speaker 1: our last regular season game of the year, and that

1977
01:56:00,240 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 1: Pit We've struggled that pit before. When we were we

1978
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 1: blew a Pit game in twenty seventeen. We were on

1979
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 1: our way to and were already qualified for the a

1980
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:13,880
Speaker 1: SEC title game. So it didn't really matter, except it

1981
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:15,840
Speaker 1: was the beginning of sort of we lose to pit

1982
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 1: then we get pummeled by Clemson, and then it was like, oh,

1983
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:21,160
Speaker 1: Miami was a mirage. We were a ten and oh

1984
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:25,400
Speaker 1: start and then we turned into a mirage. So we

1985
01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:28,120
Speaker 1: don't have Georgia Tech on our schedule, thankfully, which is

1986
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:31,640
Speaker 1: the other nemesis in Miami. So obviously Friday night, I

1987
01:56:31,720 --> 01:56:33,360
Speaker 1: think a lot of you will end up watching that game.

1988
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 1: I hope it's not a game by the second half.

1989
01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:39,480
Speaker 1: We shall see a couple of other games of note

1990
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:44,160
Speaker 1: this weekend. You know, Brian Kelly will find out the

1991
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:47,520
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly hot seat. You know how hot will his

1992
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:54,960
Speaker 1: seat get in LSU? Well, he LSU's going to Vanderbilt.

1993
01:56:55,400 --> 01:56:58,960
Speaker 1: LSU's an underdog at Vanderbilt, right, and I'd love to

1994
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:01,760
Speaker 1: know I Every week there's a new stat not since

1995
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:05,240
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties is a ranked Vanderbilt team played another

1996
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:07,360
Speaker 1: ranked team or not since the nineteen forties has the

1997
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:11,400
Speaker 1: YadA YadA YadA happened? Right with Vanderbilt. This is a

1998
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:14,959
Speaker 1: hugely important game for both teams. If either team basically

1999
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:18,880
Speaker 1: winners winner is this is a playoff elimination game. They're

2000
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:21,600
Speaker 1: both five and one second loss for either one of

2001
01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:23,200
Speaker 1: them I think puts them on a path to not

2002
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:26,560
Speaker 1: make the playoff, and in Lshu's case, it probably puts

2003
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:30,320
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly on the hot seat. An unlost to Vanderbilt,

2004
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 1: so that'll be a big deal. Duke Georgia Tech. This

2005
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:39,320
Speaker 1: has Georgia Tech upset. I think they should be an

2006
01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 1: upset alert. Duke's actually the favorite. It's a home game

2007
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:47,879
Speaker 1: for Duke. If Georgia Tech loses before you know, loses

2008
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 1: before the end of their see, this is probably their

2009
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:53,080
Speaker 1: toughest game left on their acc schedule. A little of course,

2010
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:55,120
Speaker 1: play Georgia at the end of the year their and

2011
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:59,880
Speaker 1: their annual rivalry game. But this is probably the game

2012
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to be putting in one of my four

2013
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:08,839
Speaker 1: boxes at noon on Saturday. I would have put Ohio

2014
01:58:08,880 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: State Wisconsin on this. I can't believe Luke Fickle still

2015
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 1: got a job. The embarrassment of getting shut out by

2016
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:22,280
Speaker 1: Iowa after they supposedly did push ups, being embarrassed that

2017
01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 1: they gave up forty two points to Iowa the year before,

2018
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:28,880
Speaker 1: and they were this focused on the Iowa game that

2019
01:58:29,080 --> 01:58:30,720
Speaker 1: I guess this time they only gave up thirty seven

2020
01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:33,920
Speaker 1: points instead of forty two points. Something ain't right in Wisconsin.

2021
01:58:35,120 --> 01:58:37,640
Speaker 1: I hate that Wisconsin football all of a sudden looks

2022
01:58:37,680 --> 01:58:40,440
Speaker 1: like they did in the eighties. Right. Wisconsin football was

2023
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:45,040
Speaker 1: a doormat in the eighties until they finally Frankly, it

2024
01:58:45,080 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 1: was the leadership with Dona Shalala, who spent more money

2025
01:58:48,360 --> 01:58:51,360
Speaker 1: hiring when she was the chancellor at in the University

2026
01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:54,640
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin. She deserves a lot of credit for getting

2027
01:58:54,840 --> 01:58:58,040
Speaker 1: sort of both Wisconsin football and Wisconsin basketball sort of

2028
01:58:58,080 --> 01:59:01,240
Speaker 1: back off the mat in the sort of higher tier

2029
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:06,160
Speaker 1: of Big Ten football. It's just something's wrong that Wisconsin.

2030
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:13,280
Speaker 1: This isn't working. I you know, I can't imagine that

2031
01:59:13,320 --> 01:59:15,040
Speaker 1: they're going to get up for this Ohio State game,

2032
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:18,520
Speaker 1: but you know, it might be the only shot Thickle

2033
01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:23,600
Speaker 1: has to give himself one more year. One other game

2034
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 1: that I think a couple other games Texas A and

2035
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:32,880
Speaker 1: m at Arkansas is it. Did Bobby Patrino give Arkansas

2036
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 1: a sort of one game dead cat bounced type of

2037
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 1: focus or does the Patrino difference carry over in a

2038
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:45,920
Speaker 1: second week? And if it does, this is a dangerous

2039
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:51,320
Speaker 1: game for an M on the road at Arkansas. It's

2040
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:55,560
Speaker 1: you know, you saw the game with Tennessee. The one

2041
01:59:55,600 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 1: thing about Patrino he wants you know he's playing for

2042
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:03,480
Speaker 1: this job. I think it's an absolute non starter. I

2043
02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 1: cannot believe he's in a candidate to be coach again,

2044
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:10,440
Speaker 1: considering all the drama. There's the athletic that a terrific

2045
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:14,240
Speaker 1: sort of rundown of all the ways that he's been

2046
02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:18,080
Speaker 1: an untrustworthy person to hire, whether it was in his

2047
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:21,959
Speaker 1: flirtations to go to other schools, let alone the infamous

2048
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:26,320
Speaker 1: motorcycle incident at Arkansas, et cetera. But if he starts

2049
02:00:26,320 --> 02:00:30,360
Speaker 1: winning football games, as we know, winning changes everything, right,

2050
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:34,040
Speaker 1: Winning cures a lot of concerns among donors or administrators.

2051
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 1: Upsetting Texas A and M would go a long way.

2052
02:00:37,120 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 1: So I don't think Arkansas is going to quit in

2053
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:43,160
Speaker 1: this game. Katrino's going to keep throwing, going to keep

2054
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 1: trying to do trick play. It's going to do all

2055
02:00:45,280 --> 02:00:48,120
Speaker 1: sorts of things. If I were an A and M fan,

2056
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:50,160
Speaker 1: because I think A and M's best team in the SEC,

2057
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:53,880
Speaker 1: I'd be really this game would really have me nervous

2058
02:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,000
Speaker 1: the way I'm nervous about Louisville that I think it's

2059
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:58,200
Speaker 1: that time of game and them should win. But if

2060
02:00:58,200 --> 02:00:59,640
Speaker 1: you told me this were a field goal game in

2061
02:00:59,640 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter, wouldn't surprise me. And then, of course,

2062
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:05,560
Speaker 1: the best story in the SEC this year is the

2063
02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:10,400
Speaker 1: is the new quarterback for ole Myths? Let me get

2064
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:13,800
Speaker 1: his name right? Uh? I read a terrific story about him.

2065
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:19,879
Speaker 1: Trinidad Chambliss. Uh, it's a. It was for the Trinity.

2066
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:21,320
Speaker 1: If he had been a girl, he was going to

2067
02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:25,680
Speaker 1: be Trinity. They decided to do Trinidad. It's been. It's

2068
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:28,600
Speaker 1: this guy is a as a marvel. And the fact

2069
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:31,560
Speaker 1: that they they couldn't believe what they saw his story.

2070
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:34,680
Speaker 1: He was sort of a multi sport athlete, was was

2071
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:37,640
Speaker 1: focused more on basketball, ended up playing D two football.

2072
02:01:39,360 --> 02:01:41,640
Speaker 1: Folks didn't realize how good he was at it, and

2073
02:01:41,760 --> 02:01:45,000
Speaker 1: lo and behold, he's quite the story. We'll find out.

2074
02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:48,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if either Georgia or ole Miss is

2075
02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:52,160
Speaker 1: playoff quality, right, I you know, the the ole Miss

2076
02:01:52,360 --> 02:01:55,080
Speaker 1: barely getting by Washington State last week. Maybe there was

2077
02:01:55,080 --> 02:01:58,240
Speaker 1: a look I had spot with Georgia. I'm I'm, I'm

2078
02:01:58,240 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 1: fine with that, But Georgia needs to sort of have

2079
02:02:00,080 --> 02:02:02,440
Speaker 1: something to prove as well here. This is one of those.

2080
02:02:02,840 --> 02:02:05,120
Speaker 1: It's not an eliminator for Ole Miss if they lose,

2081
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:12,200
Speaker 1: but it is if Georgia loses. So this is an

2082
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:14,360
Speaker 1: important in some way. It's a more important game for

2083
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:19,760
Speaker 1: Georgia than anybody else after that. Alabama Tennessee. I know,

2084
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:23,800
Speaker 1: Alabama Tennessee. This one also might be an elimination game, right,

2085
02:02:26,040 --> 02:02:28,080
Speaker 1: Not every two loss team in the SEC is going

2086
02:02:28,160 --> 02:02:31,000
Speaker 1: to make it, and the loser of this will have

2087
02:02:31,040 --> 02:02:36,880
Speaker 1: their second loss, so it's Alabama's of course doesn't have

2088
02:02:37,160 --> 02:02:39,480
Speaker 1: only this would be their first conference loss, so that

2089
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:44,680
Speaker 1: is a bit of advantage here for them. Tennessee cares

2090
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,400
Speaker 1: about the Alabama rivalry more than I think Alabama cares

2091
02:02:47,440 --> 02:02:49,920
Speaker 1: about the Tennessee rivalry. That's one of those big brother

2092
02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:56,680
Speaker 1: little brother games. I'm more of a believer in Alabama

2093
02:02:56,760 --> 02:02:59,680
Speaker 1: this one. I'm curious if they can get margin here.

2094
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 1: Expect them to get some margin. If they don't, maybe

2095
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:07,360
Speaker 1: that tells us maybe maybe I'm not so not so

2096
02:03:07,480 --> 02:03:11,640
Speaker 1: right about that. USC. Notre Dame is this week. That's

2097
02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 1: one of these great rivalries. My wife's got no attend

2098
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:15,960
Speaker 1: one of those games at Notre Dame. It's one of

2099
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:18,400
Speaker 1: those I'd like to I'd like to see. It's an

2100
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:21,640
Speaker 1: important game for both teams. Obviously, every game is an

2101
02:03:21,680 --> 02:03:24,320
Speaker 1: elimination game for Notre Dame now with their two losses.

2102
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 1: As long as Texas A and M and Miami keep winning,

2103
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:28,400
Speaker 1: Notre Dame is going to make it into the playoff

2104
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:30,200
Speaker 1: as a ten and two team. They will not make

2105
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:31,720
Speaker 1: it to the playoff as a nine to three team.

2106
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:36,280
Speaker 1: This is the toughest game remaining on their schedule, hands

2107
02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:40,040
Speaker 1: down the toughest game remaining on their schedule. So a

2108
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:42,240
Speaker 1: pretty important game. And then I realized I should not

2109
02:03:42,680 --> 02:03:45,760
Speaker 1: be remiss. One of my favorite rivalry names is the

2110
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:48,560
Speaker 1: Utah BYU game, The Holy War. I don't know is

2111
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 1: it politically correct to say the Holy War or not.

2112
02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:56,720
Speaker 1: Either way, it's one of the great names for a

2113
02:03:56,840 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 1: rivalry game. This one's at BYU, and this one also

2114
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:04,880
Speaker 1: actually had some playoff implications, big twelve implications. Don't sleep

2115
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:10,840
Speaker 1: on BYU. They're still undefeated. They are still undefeated, all right.

2116
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:14,960
Speaker 1: Enjoy your weekend in college football. Hopefully, depending on how

2117
02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:17,800
Speaker 1: Friday Night goes, I get to do the same. And

2118
02:04:17,840 --> 02:04:19,400
Speaker 1: with that, I'll see you next week,