Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: and I'm Danna Higher across Acid reporter at Bloomberg. And
Speaker 1: this week on the show, well did you ever get
Speaker 1: to New Year's Eve and wish you could go back
Speaker 1: in time and place all the trades that turned out
Speaker 1: to be the winners that year? We'll talk to a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg columnist who moonlights as the manager of a hedge fund. Well,
Speaker 1: and I lusory hedge fund is what we'll call it.
Speaker 1: It's called Hindsight Capital, and his strategy is exactly that,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about all the trades, all the wonderful
Speaker 1: trades that he made this year. But first of all, Donna,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I was a columnist for a
Speaker 1: long time at Bloomberg, and I think every columnist dreams
Speaker 1: of one day being a hedge fund manager as well.
Speaker 1: And I actually wrote a column one time about an
Speaker 1: imaginary edge fund that I made up to try to
Speaker 1: explain all the goings on in the markets. And I
Speaker 1: gotta say, my bosses looked at me like they thought
Speaker 1: I needed a psychiatric evaluation. It didn't go over so well, yeah,
Speaker 1: are you sure that's the only reason they thought that? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it might, There might be others. It's a thick file.
Speaker 1: It's a thick file. A couple others. But our guest
Speaker 1: this week gets away with it somehow. So why don't
Speaker 1: you tell us who's joining us this week? He does so.
Speaker 1: Our guest is John Author's he's the senior editor with
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets and he's the chief investment officer of Hindsight Capital. John,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. It's sitting sitting in London at
Speaker 1: this moment, which is very very pleasantive now rather a
Speaker 1: bit of a ghostly place with the pandemic again, Jed,
Speaker 1: I was going through Hindsights Capitals trades of the Are
Speaker 1: you guys knocked it out of the park once again?
Speaker 1: What can I say? Hindsight is a very powerful investment strategy,
Speaker 1: but I think my favorite is used cars. You got
Speaker 1: into the used cars business. Tell us about that a
Speaker 1: little bit, right, But this is this is obviously I
Speaker 1: only have practical data on the on the trades that
Speaker 1: have been placed in public markets. But in the run
Speaker 1: up to the the New year was buy up every
Speaker 1: fleet of rental cars, it could possibly lay its hands
Speaker 1: on cornered whole lots of used cars. Uh. And as
Speaker 1: we know, the great boom in inflation this year was
Speaker 1: quite something most you know, the prices of rental cars
Speaker 1: and of used cars went up far more than for
Speaker 1: much of the year. That was one heck of an investment.
Speaker 1: So I forgot to mention we also there was also
Speaker 1: the chartering some Chinese container ships during the Pacific route.
Speaker 1: There there there their rates at one point quadrupled. Really
Speaker 1: thinking out outside the box there, John, You know, I
Speaker 1: I gotta say, I've met a lot of hedge fund
Speaker 1: managers who remind me of used car salesman. But this
Speaker 1: has taken it to another level. Yeah, this is this
Speaker 1: is but this is the kind of innovative way that
Speaker 1: that you need to think these days because private markets
Speaker 1: in general are so efficient these days, it's hard to
Speaker 1: beat them, hard to make real money unless you're armed
Speaker 1: with hindsight. Well, John, speaking of China, you just mentioned
Speaker 1: some of the shipping boxes that we've seen basically all year.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about what we saw with China? Because
Speaker 1: I was working on a story about some of the
Speaker 1: things that people would like to leave behind from and
Speaker 1: one of them was just Chinese equities. One portfolio manager's
Speaker 1: book with said I really wish to leave that behind.
Speaker 1: So can you tell us what you what you found
Speaker 1: with China. You could see for a number of years
Speaker 1: that there there was a confluence of factors coming together.
Speaker 1: One was that China, obviously last year really had a
Speaker 1: very nice boomlet in equities because for a while China
Speaker 1: was doing better than anybody else coming out of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: appeared to exit the pandemic before any announce You also
Speaker 1: had the fact that we have all been all been
Speaker 1: very well aware of the credit problems built up or
Speaker 1: China by the way it had over expanded to to
Speaker 1: deal with the GFC back in two nine. There was
Speaker 1: plainly a come upance coming for that. And by the
Speaker 1: by the beginning of this year it was really clear
Speaker 1: who c Jing Ping was, what his attitude to the
Speaker 1: private sector was. This was the year when he finally
Speaker 1: really clamped down on that the what is he saw
Speaker 1: as the overmighty private sector. So there are a couple
Speaker 1: of trades that hindsight put on First, obviously, there's no
Speaker 1: money to be made in China on the on the
Speaker 1: long side. But if you went along in the market
Speaker 1: that is doing best out of the decline of China
Speaker 1: as a big exporter, which is Vietnam, which that's what
Speaker 1: I still think is the world's best named index, the
Speaker 1: ho Chi Minh Index, very unsporting of the Chinese, not
Speaker 1: to rename the Shanghai composite, the mout say Tongue Index.
Speaker 1: But there you go, so long hotel in index. And
Speaker 1: then the best way to really get bank in the
Speaker 1: bucket of shorting China was through a d R s.
Speaker 1: There was American investors who really got fed up with
Speaker 1: Chinese equities. So if you short the Bank of New
Speaker 1: York Chinese a d R index, put those two traces
Speaker 1: together and you make a hundred and that's not bad.
Speaker 1: Hundred thirty will take that as future investors of Hindsight Capital. John,
Speaker 1: that's not bad. Yeah, I'm curious about China, John, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and maybe we'll have to wait till New
Speaker 1: Year's Eve of next year to find out how Hindsight
Speaker 1: played this. But yeah, there's this, Yes, there's the sense
Speaker 1: that you know, she Jun Pink kind of ripped the
Speaker 1: band aid off all at once. When it comes to regulation.
Speaker 1: That got it all over with that the worst is
Speaker 1: behind us, and now you can kind of it's maybe
Speaker 1: safe to go back into the water in China a
Speaker 1: little bit that you know, they're sort of turning the
Speaker 1: other way and we'll sort of stabilize prop up the economy.
Speaker 1: Is it. What do you think is a two yearly
Speaker 1: to sort of reverse that trade? Well, it's too early
Speaker 1: for hindsight to let you know about. I think. I
Speaker 1: think what's most what's most concerning there is is what
Speaker 1: happens with the property market. China has decided whatever happens,
Speaker 1: China is not going to have its own GFC, its
Speaker 1: own Lehman crisis, and so there is a determination to
Speaker 1: mop up the real estate center, which has obviously been
Speaker 1: very badly over extended. If necessary, China is going to
Speaker 1: you know that that's going to involve losing some money,
Speaker 1: some more money next year. It's involved losing a lots
Speaker 1: of money this year, which was actually another hindsight trade.
Speaker 1: In fact, if you this this is a classic of
Speaker 1: seeing what is cheap, remembering that the biggest determinant of
Speaker 1: how how any investment is going to do is how
Speaker 1: cheaply you buy it. So they went along the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: US Office Reat Index, which was seriously bombed out at
Speaker 1: the end of last year, and shorten the Footsie Abbas
Speaker 1: Chinese High Yield real Estate Index. And that made you
Speaker 1: exactly which isn't bad in a year hindsight only deals
Speaker 1: in triple digit returns that it seems like, well, unless
Speaker 1: unless it's army is really twisted. It's it just it
Speaker 1: prefers not to bother with anything that's that's only in
Speaker 1: double digits. Just to stick with international markets. I know
Speaker 1: you were looking at Turkey and the collapse of the
Speaker 1: Turkish lira. I love reading stories about the lira because
Speaker 1: there's always the clause that Turkey's president ur Twan has
Speaker 1: this sort of counter to what you what regular economists
Speaker 1: believe about interest rates, and what how cutting or raising
Speaker 1: interest rates ties in with the economy. So can you
Speaker 1: tell us what you found about the Turkish lira? Well,
Speaker 1: he is indeed, in my day job of writing about
Speaker 1: macro and cross assets and stuff, he is God's gift
Speaker 1: to columnists because everybody else is having an argument about
Speaker 1: when and how much to raise rates, and he is
Speaker 1: the only person on the planet who actually seriously thinks
Speaker 1: it's a good idea to cut them at this moment.
Speaker 1: The currency market definitely doesn't agree. So you had a
Speaker 1: series of four rate cuts by Turkey for a while. Amazingly,
Speaker 1: Turkish real rates, if you subtracted the rate of inflation
Speaker 1: from there from the bank rut, were actually not as
Speaker 1: as they were in the States. American rates are stunning
Speaker 1: lee accommodative, stunning lee easy at present. But by the
Speaker 1: end of the year they had managed to cut even
Speaker 1: lower in real terms. And what Hindsight does every year
Speaker 1: is that it moves its office. One of the greatest
Speaker 1: deliverers of returns in markets is money illusion. To denominate
Speaker 1: yourself in a weak currency, you're going to make yourself
Speaker 1: look much better. So they moved to a standbol which
Speaker 1: is I've only been there once. It's a wonderful city.
Speaker 1: The S and P was up twenty four in dollar terms,
Speaker 1: but in lera terms it was up two when I
Speaker 1: last checked. Another brilliant trade. And I know you're dabbling
Speaker 1: in your You're dabbling in the h the digital asset markets.
Speaker 1: John Long Ethereum shortsilver. Is this as simple as it seems,
Speaker 1: is crypto of the new precious metal for those worried
Speaker 1: about inflation and money supply and everything else. Given the
Speaker 1: kind of desperation, you could see that the you know,
Speaker 1: the the techno bros, of the crypto bros, the excitement
Speaker 1: that was brewing over meme stocks at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year, whether you know, the Hindsight's macro people haven't,
Speaker 1: unfortunately told me whether whether the crypto crazy is here
Speaker 1: to here to stay, But it was obvious that there
Speaker 1: was a lot more juice to squeeze out of crypto.
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of people really do see it
Speaker 1: as a substitute for precious metals. You you can't actually
Speaker 1: wear the necklace made out of ethereum or bitcoin, or
Speaker 1: you have a wedding ring made out of it. Still
Speaker 1: people see it as some kind of a of a substitute.
Speaker 1: So just to juice up the kind of money you
Speaker 1: made in ethereum a little bit more, Hindsight financed it
Speaker 1: by shorting silver, which is the world's which actually fell
Speaker 1: quite a bit while the etherorum went up fifold. So
Speaker 1: that the latest figure I have in front of me,
Speaker 1: which may well be out of date by the time
Speaker 1: we broadcast this, is that that that trade made six
Speaker 1: shorting silver and putting it into a theory. Six. Hindsight
Speaker 1: is a powerful investing strategy. It really the growth value
Speaker 1: you know, you name it risk parity. None of these
Speaker 1: strategies are going to do as well as hindsight period guaranteed.
Speaker 1: So John, I know one big thing with cryptocurrencies this
Speaker 1: year was their energy use. So I'm hoping you can
Speaker 1: tell us about the clean energy sector and what you
Speaker 1: found there. Okay, this this was fascinating. You had a
Speaker 1: global economy that was still really being hit by all
Speaker 1: the reverberations from the southern stop in the pandemic, particularly
Speaker 1: in Europe. You also had the cross currents coming from
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin in the way that he was trying to
Speaker 1: assert his country roll over Europe or assertin his power
Speaker 1: by air by limiting supplies of natural gas. And there
Speaker 1: is this discovery that it really was important to have
Speaker 1: greater supplies of of traditional energy in stock while the
Speaker 1: transition to newer, alternative, cleaner energy was underway. So the
Speaker 1: one really successful trade was to go long natural gas features,
Speaker 1: particularly gas natural gas features for the British and Netherlands markets,
Speaker 1: while shorting the selective solar power index and index of
Speaker 1: stocks that invest inlar power, which actually fell quite a
Speaker 1: bit last year. The last time I checked that trade,
Speaker 1: long natural gas short solar had made just slightly less
Speaker 1: than seven for the year, which again is better than
Speaker 1: a poke in the eye. The other big investment that
Speaker 1: you could see coming a long way away was that
Speaker 1: oil was asked officially depressed by all the fallout there
Speaker 1: had been among OPEC plus last year, and that there
Speaker 1: were now supply problems as demand was for for oil
Speaker 1: was beginning to take off. And the way you make
Speaker 1: a really good geared play on oil is through the
Speaker 1: expiration section that the drillers. Meanwhile, clean energy as a whole,
Speaker 1: people were so excited about it entering this year. Again
Speaker 1: it was just a straightforward Benjamin Graham trade. Really just
Speaker 1: buy oiled it. There's long oil, expiration stocks, short b SMP,
Speaker 1: global clean energy, and that trade made about a hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty not bad, not bad, not one of the best,
Speaker 1: but that's they they all count John, you know, almost
Speaker 1: a sucker for a good old man movie reference. So
Speaker 1: I was I caught my eye. The I'm not dead
Speaker 1: yet Monty Python trade also notes the at least we
Speaker 1: reopened a little bit trade talk to us a little
Speaker 1: bit about that. One another good re trade for the year.
Speaker 1: This this is one of this, This was one of
Speaker 1: my one of my favorites. I'm not yet is equote
Speaker 1: from Monty Placing and the Holy Rail. Yes, and I
Speaker 1: regarded he is going past yelling bring out your dead
Speaker 1: and one of the eat Yes that did really badly
Speaker 1: this year. It was the ticker symbol empty, which was
Speaker 1: which is the decline of the retail stock trade, a
Speaker 1: decline of the retail brist and more retail, which was
Speaker 1: designed to short the companies that you that you go
Speaker 1: to your mall. But by the end of last year
Speaker 1: that had been taken to an extreme. People were expecting
Speaker 1: malls to be going bankrupt, left, right and center. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: there was a belief that internet entertainment was here forever
Speaker 1: and people have got over excited. There was a classic
Speaker 1: pandemic trade. So all you needed to do was bet
Speaker 1: that we would at least that that there was at
Speaker 1: least some life left in the old concept of the
Speaker 1: retail mall and that we would at least reopen a bit.
Speaker 1: So if you go along the Bloomberg Regional Mall reat
Speaker 1: Index and short the s and p five under at
Speaker 1: home Entertainment Index. When I last check, that had made
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty three for the year. And at
Speaker 1: the same time we had exactly what happening with our
Speaker 1: US office property reets office property is it's another classic story.
Speaker 1: Everybody desperately got out of office property reets last year
Speaker 1: because but we all know why, we thought that everybody
Speaker 1: was going to be working from home forever in a day.
Speaker 1: It's still not clear exactly how much we are going
Speaker 1: to a long term swards working from home, but it's
Speaker 1: plain certainly we know Bloomberg there are a lot of
Speaker 1: advantages still too to working in an office. So you know,
Speaker 1: office routes are still not back to where they were
Speaker 1: pre pandemic. But if you bought them at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this year and coupled them with a short in
Speaker 1: Chinese high yield real estate, which finally had its great
Speaker 1: moment of destiny this year with the ever grand incident,
Speaker 1: then that made just under one when I last checked.
Speaker 1: There was money to be had, even in contrarians really need,
Speaker 1: really can make a lot of money if you've got
Speaker 1: the the interestinal fortune, fortitude to do it, or of course,
Speaker 1: if you know the future that helps to Jed. I
Speaker 1: was prized when I heard that Hindsight's portfolio managers were
Speaker 1: not allowed to buy game Stop, I gotta wonder about
Speaker 1: your chief risk officer. Did I assume you fired that
Speaker 1: cheap chief risk officer over that? But talk to us
Speaker 1: about that? Well, then basically this is just a standard
Speaker 1: rule that if hind State is allowed to invest in
Speaker 1: single stocks, then forget it that the kind of money
Speaker 1: they're going to make is just infinite. So you know,
Speaker 1: the regulator just won't let them play that. However, the
Speaker 1: c I O DIDs want me to say it, even
Speaker 1: though as we know, game Stop has come off a
Speaker 1: lot down by more than from the top. How do
Speaker 1: you bought James Stop on January one in lira and
Speaker 1: held one Turkish lira would now be worth seventeen hundred
Speaker 1: Turkish lira. So you know, there was a lot of
Speaker 1: real irritation about not being allowed to to dive into
Speaker 1: game Stop. But there you go. And how happy were
Speaker 1: you to not own Cathy Woods arc et F Can
Speaker 1: you talk about that because that one was a big
Speaker 1: name in but it hasn't done as well. No, not
Speaker 1: necessarily because there's anything wrong with Cathy Wood strategy. It
Speaker 1: was just there was something wrong with piling into her
Speaker 1: her fund in the way that people did. It's a
Speaker 1: classic issue that has long been there in the mutual
Speaker 1: fund world as well. If lots of people give you
Speaker 1: more money, you have to deploy that money somehow, and
Speaker 1: generally speaking much harder for you to to make the
Speaker 1: underlying portfolio work really well. There had been so much
Speaker 1: of a excitement around Kathy Woods. The amount of Kathy
Speaker 1: would merch that was available at the end of last
Speaker 1: year was just such an obvious scientist short arc. You
Speaker 1: don't hindsights. Managers don't quite understand how people didn't didn't
Speaker 1: get that, so all you needed to do. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like if the CEO has just opened a brand new,
Speaker 1: gorgeous new headquarters, you short the stock. If if you
Speaker 1: can get the c I O S face on a
Speaker 1: T shirt, you probably don't want to be in that
Speaker 1: funds just at the moment. So if you go long spy,
Speaker 1: it's not the greatest trade. But if you go long spy,
Speaker 1: just boring, straightforward, just go with the market. Short arc
Speaker 1: sixty when I last checked, which is you know, respectable
Speaker 1: small potatoes behindside capital. But it's again, it's a lot
Speaker 1: better than a boken the eye. Yeah. For the mirrormortal
Speaker 1: uh fund managers who do not employ the power of
Speaker 1: fine site that that's nothing. I thought when Cathy, when
Speaker 1: the ARC site offered a backpack a bag, I thought
Speaker 1: that was a signed to for the bag holders. You
Speaker 1: know that that you don't want an ARC theme bag.
Speaker 1: You could almost directly say you are going to be
Speaker 1: left holding the bag one more. Before we get to
Speaker 1: the craziest things of the errors. V Donna calls them
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing, or is Down calls them the madest thing,
Speaker 1: which might be my favorite pressures of pandemic life. Long
Speaker 1: coffee short beer stacks. I usually go long beer post
Speaker 1: market and then long coffee in the pre market the
Speaker 1: next morning. But talk to us about this trade. Uh.
Speaker 1: This this is a trade that is quite something. Basically,
Speaker 1: coffee is benefiting from supply chain problems. You have to
Speaker 1: bring it in from all kinds of interesting, faraway places
Speaker 1: and there is a lot of demand for it. Meanwhile, basically,
Speaker 1: because drinking together is still not back in full swing,
Speaker 1: people tend not to drink so much beer. They tend
Speaker 1: to drink other things if they're not if they're not
Speaker 1: socializing in big groups. So, given that things were not
Speaker 1: getting back to normal as many had hope this year,
Speaker 1: if you went long coffee futures and shorts s and
Speaker 1: P five hundred brewery sick to that made you an
Speaker 1: amazing hundred and fifty. It was. It's an extraordinary thing.
Speaker 1: But we we are all at this moment desperate for
Speaker 1: caffeine and less desperate for alcohol. Very interesting, very it's
Speaker 1: it all. It all plays out in the narrative of
Speaker 1: the year end letter. And if you haven't picked up
Speaker 1: on it by now, hindsight capital exists basically only in
Speaker 1: John's imagination and UH and in the year end and
Speaker 1: the but real, the real thing is the year end
Speaker 1: Letter to Investors that we all look forward to UH
Speaker 1: as one of John's final columns columns of the year,
Speaker 1: and it's just a great way to recap the year.
Speaker 1: John has been doing it for years, and some way
Speaker 1: John will figure out to really employ hindsight in the
Speaker 1: capital markets and then we can finally retire. I think
Speaker 1: exactly exactly I'm looking forward to that. Tieden up your
Speaker 1: straight jackets. It's time for the craziest things we saw
Speaker 1: in markets this week. Well, Dona, let's get to those
Speaker 1: crazy things. It was a crazy year, a lot of
Speaker 1: mad things, weird things in the market. What's what's your
Speaker 1: pick for the craziest thing all year? Well, obviously it
Speaker 1: has There's just so many things to choose from this.
Speaker 1: I think the staying power of Game Stop investors, AMC investors,
Speaker 1: and me still getting text messages from friends asking about
Speaker 1: game Stop and all these other things, that really is.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. But I'm going to go with Facebook's name change.
Speaker 1: So if you remember a couple of months ago, Facebook
Speaker 1: changed its name to Meta. They're also in the process,
Speaker 1: I believe, of changing their ticker, so there was some confusion,
Speaker 1: even with investors putting some money towards an e t
Speaker 1: F that had the metaverse ticker and and theme on it.
Speaker 1: So I think that's one of the most strangest, weirdest,
Speaker 1: maddest things that we've seen, just because everything that the
Speaker 1: company has been going through, and we'll see how well
Speaker 1: it sticks. I think even still in stories people say
Speaker 1: Facebook parent Meta Yeah, so it's not really working yet
Speaker 1: in Google parent alphabet. We we can't give up those
Speaker 1: all that is a good one. I'm gonna pile onto
Speaker 1: your meme stock thing a little bit to me, John,
Speaker 1: It's it's funny how often professional fund managers such as
Speaker 1: yourself are compared to are compared to monkeys. You know,
Speaker 1: it goes back to the Grandam Walk on Wall Street.
Speaker 1: Bert Bert mart Peel, who I believe you correct me
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, was the first to say that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a monkey throwing darts at a newspaper stock
Speaker 1: listening page could probably equal the performance of um, your
Speaker 1: average fund manager. Shure enough. This year, not so much monkeys,
Speaker 1: but they're Simeon cousins. The apes really took over the markets.
Speaker 1: You had the word Apiacht Club, you had the amc
Speaker 1: uh long crowd calling themselves the Ape Army, and that
Speaker 1: that a bunch of other APE n f T projects.
Speaker 1: So year of the Ape, I think Planet of the Apes,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if it goes back to Bird's monkeys
Speaker 1: throwing the darts. Maybe there's a connection there. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But what's the beddest thing you saw this year? John?
Speaker 1: I'll give you to one meme related and one non
Speaker 1: meme related, and the meme related one is obviously the
Speaker 1: greatest meme stock of all is tes La. Obviously has
Speaker 1: lots of wonderful things about it, but it does behave
Speaker 1: like a meme stock. I think the fact that Elon
Speaker 1: Musk has now become the world's richest man, when he
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on Twitter advertising that he
Speaker 1: was going to set up in a new university called
Speaker 1: Texas Institute of Technology and Science, and he was really
Speaker 1: looking forward to selling people the merch with that on
Speaker 1: his shirt. The fact that somebody with a sense of
Speaker 1: humor that's still stuck at the age of about twelve
Speaker 1: can become the world's richest man, and that so many
Speaker 1: people can follow him in such logical ways, such a
Speaker 1: passionate way is mad, and it's my opinion it's truly mad.
Speaker 1: And not only that, but also to start a Twitter
Speaker 1: we're with you, know, Elizabeth Warren. Imagine if you know,
Speaker 1: if if I told you a few years ago that
Speaker 1: the richest man in the world would be fighting on
Speaker 1: Twitter with one of the most powerful senators in the US,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would believe it. I think it
Speaker 1: sounds like something out of hindsight Capital's letter. But let's
Speaker 1: figure out a way to play that trade. My final
Speaker 1: other mad thing, which is instant with the benefit of
Speaker 1: hindsights and does come with it with some frustration, is
Speaker 1: that this year, I please doesn't always happen. But I
Speaker 1: did get one really big macro coal really right, which
Speaker 1: is that if you can see that those right, januine pepparty.
Speaker 1: I did think there was a very serious chance that
Speaker 1: inflation was going to take off this year. Clever, clever me.
Speaker 1: And therefore, of course, as I could see that inflation
Speaker 1: was likely to take off, I therefore thought that bond
Speaker 1: deals were going to shoot up through the they had
Speaker 1: to do if inflation is gone. So I got the
Speaker 1: macro call right and the market call. Even though I
Speaker 1: got the Macro call right completely wrong. I would like
Speaker 1: to think that was crazy. It's probably more something else.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well I don't think you're the only one
Speaker 1: who got those those one thing right and the other
Speaker 1: thing wrong. I was that was a tough one. I
Speaker 1: think that was a pain trade for a lot of people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: including me. But with that, what what a year? John
Speaker 1: Author's privilege and a pleasure to have you come recap
Speaker 1: the year for us and can't wait to see all
Speaker 1: the great trades that hindsight places for two. Of course
Speaker 1: we'll figure out what those are at the end of
Speaker 1: the naship. They're not that's not going to be known
Speaker 1: until the end of next year. That hindsight always really
Speaker 1: really let's see about not letting it not see anybody
Speaker 1: know it's trades in real time with it all makes sense.
Speaker 1: That all makes sense. Thank you John for joining us
Speaker 1: What Goes Up. We'll be back next week until the
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