1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Gretchen Rubin and I'm Laurie Gottlieb. 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 2: We are dropping into your feed to share a podcast 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: we think you'll really like. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: It's our new show with Lemonad and Media called Since 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: You Asked. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: Every week, we take on the problems of everyday life, 7 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: from that small annoyance that's been bugging you for years 8 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: to the big questions about love, work, family and meaning. 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: And as a happiness researcher and as a therapist and 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: as longtime friends, we bring different perspectives to the table, 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: and of course a little bit of fun. 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 2: Because life is complicated enough, we want to help you 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: feel lighter, more understood, and maybe even inspired to try 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 2: something new. 15 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: So today we're giving you a special preview. You are 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: about to hear a clip from the Since You Asked podcast, 17 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: and if you like what you hear, head to Since 18 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: You Asked to check out the rest of the episode. 19 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: You can also click on the link in the episode notes. 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: And we're back with a question from Nick about a 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: flaky friend. 22 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: My name is Nick from Los Angeles, California. So my 23 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 3: question is regarding a friendship. I have a friend I've 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 3: known for probably about eight years or so, and we 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 3: hang off sort of semi regularly, maybe once a month, 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: once every two months or so. Every time that we're 27 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 3: together or he seems to be enjoying himself. It seems 28 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: like we get along really well. But for some reason, 29 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 3: I've noticed that I'm always the one who has to 30 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: make the plans, and I find that he'll often cancel 31 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: or reschedule right at the last minute. So I'm wondering 32 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 3: if I should take this as a hint that he 33 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 3: doesn't want to continue the friendship, and if so, would 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 3: it be best to just confront him directly and ask 35 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 3: him about this, or should I just simply stop trying 36 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 3: to make plans? 37 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: Thanks so much interesting. I think this comes up quite 38 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: a bit in friendship. 39 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: It does this question of who's initiating and do I matter? 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: And are we both as invested in this friendship as 41 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: the other person is. I think here Nick said they've 42 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: been friends for eight years, and it sounds like the 43 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: friend so it's in the effort to get together about 44 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: what's a month, which, by the way, for eight years. 45 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't think that's insignificant. No, that's a lot, right. 46 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: I don't think that's a question of whether the friend 47 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: enjoys hanging out with him, because the friend would not 48 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: get together that much over this long period of time 49 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,839 Speaker 1: if he didn't enjoy hanging out with him. 50 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just some friendships are like this, where there's 51 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: an imbalance of who initiates and who is the glue 52 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: that brings people together. It doesn't necessarily mean that the 53 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: friend is not interested in the friendship, because as you say, 54 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: he's showing up regularly, and that shows that he values 55 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: the friendship and enjoys spending time together. 56 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: And so it's tricky because it is frustrating when you 57 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: have to initiate every time, and when someone cancels and 58 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: then you feel like you're not a priority. And maybe 59 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: you have tickets to a concert and they canceled the 60 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: last minute, or reservations at a restaurant. But I think 61 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: that what Nick needs to think about is that we 62 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: have different kinds of dynamics with different friends, and people 63 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: have different personalities, and I think Nick has to really 64 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: decide if his enjoyment and connection with this person is 65 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: worth the inconvenience, because this person comes with his quality. 66 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: I always say, you can't order people up all a cart. 67 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: There are no substitutions, you take them as they are 68 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: and you enjoy the meal, or you just don't order 69 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: the meal. And I think he has to decide, do 70 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: I want to keep ordering this meal? Is that worth 71 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: it to me? 72 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: So I have this personality framework that I created, the 73 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 2: four Tendancies, that divides people into four tendencies, and one 74 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: is the rebel. And something that is a very typical 75 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: of rebels other people sometimes as well, but very typical 76 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: of rebels is that they really dislike having things on 77 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: their calendar, and they will often cancel even if they 78 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: want to do something. They want to see you, they 79 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: enjoy hanging out with you, they do want to go 80 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: to that concert, but they just really dislike the feeling 81 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: of being expected to go someplace and having it on 82 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: their calendar. And this is helpful to Nick because if 83 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: that's true, don't take it personally, as you say, this 84 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: is just something that is on the menu. It doesn't 85 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: reflect on their friendship, and so it's just something to 86 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: take into account as Nick makes plans. Sometimes with a 87 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: rebel or people like this, it's easier to keep things 88 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: open and more free flowing, so the person has a 89 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: greater sense of freedom and choice. So you can say 90 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: something like, oh, I'm thinking of going on a hike 91 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: Saturday morning, let me know if you want to join, 92 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 2: Or it could be fun to get drinks at the 93 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: new bar. 94 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm getting a group together. 95 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: You can come if you want and keeping it open 96 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 2: like that. That tends to work better for people who 97 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: are rebels. 98 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: And so I think what we're saying is the friend 99 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: is who he is, and sometimes we want to change 100 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the friend, but maybe we need to think about how 101 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: we're going to bilt it on our side. So what 102 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: is our advice. Our advice is, don't take it personally. 103 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like he doesn't like you. And at 104 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: the same time, manage your expectations. Don't count on this 105 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: person not canceling, and maybe even have a backup plan. 106 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: Don't buy non refundable tickets unless you want to go 107 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: by yourself, or maybe you have another friend who wants 108 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: to sub in at the last minute, right right, And 109 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,559 Speaker 1: remember what you value about the person, and also in mind, 110 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: this is the friend I have. We have many different 111 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: kinds of friends. 112 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: With my marriage, I often say to myself when I'm 113 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: thinking about something that I don't particularly appreciate about my husband, Jamiens, 114 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: that's not the guy I'm married. We get different things 115 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: from different relationships, and so again it's as you were saying, 116 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: you have to think about, well is this trade off 117 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: worth it to me? 118 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,559 Speaker 1: Right? And I like, that's not the guy I'm married, 119 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: That's not the friend I have. So it doesn't mean 120 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: that the friend isn't a good friend. Just like you 121 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: love your husband, but there are certain things that that's 122 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: just not the guy you married. That's just not the 123 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: friend you have. And so part of that is accepting 124 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: that in this friendship you're going to have to be 125 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: doing the work. And if the friendship isn't worth your 126 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: doing the heavy lifting, that's something that you need to evaluate. 127 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: But again, it sounds like you value this person and 128 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: if you can accept that this is who he is. Like, 129 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: some people are just really messy. Yes, I see this 130 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: in couples all the time, where somebody's like, but this 131 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: person leaves the bedroom really messy, and that means they 132 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: don't respect me and they don't care about what's important 133 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: to me. They really have trouble not being messy. And 134 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: it sounds like this friend really has trouble not canceling plans. 135 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: So this is again no substitutions. This is the friend 136 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: that he is, and that's where you have to evaluate 137 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: whether that is enough for you. 138 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: So Nick asked, should he talk to his friend about it? 139 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: What do you think? I think that he can talk 140 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: to his friend once and say, when you cancel, it 141 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: makes me feel, however it makes him feel, but I 142 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: would not expect any change. So I think it's worth 143 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 1: mentioning because it's important in friendships to be open and honest. 144 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: But the friend might say something like, oh, I'm really sorry, 145 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: I'll try not to do that anymore, but don't expect 146 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: that to happen. It sounds like this is just something 147 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: about the friend and that's how he is, and it's 148 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: worth mentioning just so he knows and maybe he can 149 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: make an effort, but I think it's going to be 150 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: really hard for him to make a substantial change. 151 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: On a slightly different note, I would say, Nick, give 152 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: credit to yourself and recognize the value to yourself and 153 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: to others that you're doing by making the effort to 154 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: strengthen bonds. That takes time and energy and effort, and 155 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: it's really really valuable. The people who do the work 156 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: of friendship are really important, And it reminds me of 157 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: this beautiful passage from Gertrude Stein's brilliant The Autobiography of 158 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: Alice by Tolklus and she's talking about Guillolma Paulinaire and 159 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: she wrote the death of Guillolma Paulinaire at this time 160 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: made a very serious difference to all his friends. Apart 161 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,559 Speaker 2: from their sorrow at his death, it was the moment 162 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: just after the war when many things had changed and 163 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: people naturally fell apart. Gwillolm would have been a bond 164 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: of union. He always had a quality of keeping people together, 165 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 2: and now that he was gone, everybody ceased to be friends. 166 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: Having that quality of keeping people together is really really important. 167 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, especially when so many people are 168 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: saying I want more connection, sometimes part of getting that 169 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: connection isn't about keeping score about who's doing more. It's 170 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: about if you want that connection and be the glue. 171 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: It's not a contest. 172 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: And then before we go, are you ready to give 173 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: some advice. Here is a question to ponder. We will 174 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: discuss it in the next episode, and we would love 175 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts. 176 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 4: It's from Raya and it goes like this, I've been 177 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: having more of a moral dilemma recently in my relationship 178 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 4: and I would love for your advice on the situation. 179 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 4: So for context, I've been dating my boyfriend for a 180 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 4: little over four months now. In the very early stages 181 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 4: of him and I, his roommate and best friend let's 182 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 4: call him Jack, was seeing my roommate. About one week 183 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: into my boyfriend and I officially dating, Jack cheated on 184 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 4: my roommate. It was a very messy breakup, as most 185 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 4: cheating related breakups are, because my roommate found texts between 186 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: Jack and the girl let's call her Carly, in which 187 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 4: it was very clear that Carly knew my roommate was 188 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: in the picture, yet proceeded anyway. Aside from being absolutely 189 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 4: devastating to my friend and roommate, the impact of Jack 190 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 4: and Carly's actions completely changed the dynamic of our friendships, 191 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 4: made my living situation uncomfortable, and to this day has 192 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 4: been a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. After 193 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 4: things happened, Jack and Carly kept seeing each other in secret, 194 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 4: but recently they've become more serious and have started to 195 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 4: hang out with our friends and are always at the 196 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: house whenever I go to see. My boyfriend Jack has 197 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 4: yet to own up to his actions or apologize for 198 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: the impact it had on me, but Carly recently reached 199 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 4: out trying to make amends. She has expressed interest in 200 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 4: taking responsibility for her actions, but also said that she 201 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: would like to get to know me when I am 202 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 4: ready to. I have no interest whatsoever in making amends 203 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 4: or getting to know her, but my boyfriend has been 204 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 4: pushing me to forgive and forget. My question is how 205 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 4: do I reduce the strain that this has on my 206 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 4: relationship without feeling like I am compromising on my moral values. 207 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: Ooof that is a messy situation. 208 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: That's a tough Yeah, it's confusing. Everybody's so connected to 209 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 2: everybody else. There's a lot to think about in a 210 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: lot going on. 211 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: So we want to hear what you all think about 212 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: this question because we're going to tackle it next time. 213 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: Think about what your advice might be, and we will 214 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: discuss it.