WEBVTT - The Network: Déjà vu 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.440 Hey, Latino USA listener, It's Marieno Hossa. We're back again 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.600 with our new series The Network, a co production of 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:12.320 Latino USA and NPR's Embedded Podcast. Now, if you haven't 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.560 listened to the first two episodes, you're definitely going to 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:16.680 want to do that before you keep listening. Remember you 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.800 can find the rest of this series here on our 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.160 feed or on the embedded feed. Now, just to recap, 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.800 we've been following this loosely connected set of people. We're 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.840 calling them the Network, right, These are people who help 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:33.839 women have abortions with pills without the help of a doctor. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.239 The network started in Brazil and then grew and it 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.559 developed support systems in other countries in the region, like 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.160 Mexico and Argentina. And these were places where most women 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:49.440 didn't have a legal right to abortion. And now these days, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.000 that is the situation that a lot of Americans find 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.720 themselves in since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.080 and ended the constitutional right to abortion in the United 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.600 States of America. So in this final episode of this series, 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.680 we're going to go deep into the United States. Here 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.959 are Latino USA producers Victori Estrada and Marta Martinez with 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.760 the last episode of the network. 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.120 For decades, while people all over the world were embracing 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:25.040 self managed abortion with MISA prostel, most Americans had never 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.000 even heard of it, and many of those who had 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.440 dismissed it for being a foreign concept. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:33.520 It was always like, oh, well, yeah, but those are 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:34.160 other countries. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:35.520 That doesn't apply here. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.960 For being irrelevant because for decades Americans had a legal 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:39.760 right to abortion. 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.640 There was a lot of disbelief that something like this 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.360 was needed in the United States. A big part of 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.680 our narrative is that we have abortion access right. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.040 Or they dismissed it for sounding dangerous. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.640 I didn't think it was safe, you know, as doctors 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.160 were risk at first, and we like control. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.640 This is doctor Maya Bass, a family doctor who also 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:06.240 provides abortions, either by performing the procedure or prescribing pills. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:11.800 In the US, patients usually take two pills, misoprostol or miso, 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.480 the pill we've been hearing about, and another drug called 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.919 me for Pristo, which makes the process go a little smoother. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.280 Early in her career, Maya learned a strict protocol around 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.520 the pills, with multiple appointments and tests designed to keep 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:28.360 patients safe. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.640 Of course, I'm going to confirm exactly how big this 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.040 pregnancy is. Of course I'm going to confirm that my 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.800 patient has enough blood to handle this. And yeah, I 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.840 want to make sure that this worked for them. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.160 T Maya and many doctors. When she first heard about 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.280 self managing, getting abortion pills without a prescription and taking 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.200 them without a doctor's oversight, she thought it introduced a 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.000 ton of risks. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.000 Gosh, what if people are dropping like flies because they're 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.160 taking meds that are actually rat poison and hurting themselves. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.679 She imagined people only turned to self managing as a 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:06.400 last resort. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.480 If somebody really doesn't want a pregnancy and can't get 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.120 to a clinic, maybe this is an option. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.680 But after Roe was overturned in twenty twenty two for 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:20.600 lots of women, the last resort became the only resort. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.440 Please help me, How am I able to receive the 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.000 pill asap? 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:27.680 Please? 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.240 These are emails American women sent to activists who share 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:32.880 them with us. 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.960 I'm inquiring about abortion pills and how to get them 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:36.440 sent to me. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.600 I'm in no way, shape or form financially ready to 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:41.320 have a child. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:42.800 I'm desperate. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.560 In recent years, American women have been reaching out to 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.760 the network by the hundreds of thousands. 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.320 The network in the US is trying to meet this demand, 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.560 but like we've seen in previous episodes, when the network 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.800 starts to grow, it's not clear what will happen next. 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.640 In Argentina, the network led to cultural and policy changes. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.800 In Brazil, it based backlash and restrictions. So in this 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.880 episode we look at how the network in the US 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.240 has expanded in the last few years and what a 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.360 fact that's having on this country. 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.360 How will the network adapt in the face of mounting 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:38.000 abortion restrictions. From MPRS Embedded and Futuro Media's Latino USA, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.240 This is the Network, a series about the DIY method 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.960 that took safe abortions out of the clinic. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.600 And the women who made it happen. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:52.040 I'm Victoria Estrada, I'm Marta Martinez and this is episode 0:04:52.040 --> 0:05:02.919 three deja Vu. For decades in the US, the network 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:07.480 was almost entirely absent, but not completely. There were a 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.320 few places It began showing up in the mid nineties. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.760 We just started hearing that patients were taking some pills. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.560 This is doctor Mark Rosing and OBGYN who works at 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.440 a hospital in the bronx. Back then, he saw patients 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.919 from immigrant and Spanish speaking communities taking me, so. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.120 In Spanish they called it the star pill because it's 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:29.200 a hexagonal pill. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.120 According to Mark, the women he was seeing in his 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.440 hospital could have gone to a clinic, but he says 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.159 many didn't know that in New York insurance or medicaid 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.560 would cover it, so instead they relied on the network. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.719 They would say I got it from my aunt, I 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.600 got it from my cousin, and I got it from 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.200 someone who knows amba. And then sometimes they would also 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.840 say that they got it in some of the bodegas 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.240 and the pharmacies around in Washington Heights. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:06:00.440 For decades, the network stayed like this, small underground, mostly 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.440 tied to immigrant communities, but in the late twenty tens, 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:09.040 the demand for the network began to grow. American women 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.720 started to lose access to doctors who could give them 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:16.000 an abortion. During this time, states passed hundreds of new 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:20.240 restrictions that closed clinics and shortened the timeframe women had 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:21.080 to get an abortion. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.920 And then in twenty twenty one, one state passed law 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.760 that foreshadowed where the entire country was heading. 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.640 The Texas Heartbeat Bill is now in effect. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:37.359 A year before Robosa returned, Texas made national headlines for 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.240 this new law, Senate Bill eight or SB eight. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:46.160 Senate Bill eight prohibits abortions after a fetal heartbeat is detected, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.360 which can be as early as six. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.920 Weeks, barely enough time to know you're pregnant. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.640 The new anti abortion law in Texas has generated an 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.520 unprecedented level of fear and anxiety for both providers and 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.400 abortion seekers the state. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.480 The demand for self managed abortion in Texas exploded overnight. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.800 For US, it was de jabu, de jabu. Vera como. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.080 It was like going back twenty years. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.680 This is Vera Cruz, the founder of Las Liveres, who 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.280 we met earlier in the series. Veto heard about SPA 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.480 from friends in the US. It reminded her of the 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.160 severe restrictions Mexico had an abortion when she started the 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.280 group in two thousand. With two decades of experience supporting 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.960 people through self managed abortions, Veto knew how to help, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.400 and she wanted to. She floated an idea to some 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.320 other collectives in the Mexican. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.480 Networks, why don't we build a network to help people 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:53.120 in Texas? 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.640 Tod Himosi. We all said yes. 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.960 In January twenty twenty two, Veto helped organize a meeting 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.920 to strategize how to do this. They met in a 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.080 hotel conference room in Mexico. There were almost fifty activists 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.880 there from different Mexican accompaniment collectives, and a handful of 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.000 people video calling in from Texas. 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.600 Principal our main idea was that Mexican networks would train 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.000 networks in Texas and the Texas networks would. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:23.320 Do the work. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.200 But there was a problem Mido. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:34.319 The people in Texas were really really scared. People were like, no, no, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.040 that's illegal. They can put us in jail. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.400 SB eight made it illegal to quote aid and a 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.920 bed a woman having an abortion, but the lot didn't 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.520 define what that meant, so it put pretty much everything 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.200 the network does into a legal gray area. 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:52.800 Veto says. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.320 The activists on the US side of the call said 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.360 they weren't ready to get involved in the way she 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:02.040 was suggesting, so Veto when the Mexican collectives decided to 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.960 step in, they would directly provide women in Texas with 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.800 pills and help them self manage their abortions, and they 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.720 were going to be very public about it. Veto held 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.760 a press conference and posted Lasivre's phone number on social media. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.160 She wasn't sure it would reach anyone, but that day 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.400 ten Americans contacted her. 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.640 So they only wrote the word help. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.040 In response. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.800 The Mexican collectives carried pill packages across the border and 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.880 mailed them to the people in the US who had 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.040 asked for them, free of charge, just like they'd been 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.600 doing in Mexico for more than two decades. And as 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.760 work got out, Americans from around the country started contacting VEO. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.520 Some sent money, others asked how they could join the network. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.640 Decades people wrote and said I want to help. 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:58.640 How do I help? 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.320 Mela Pasenes I spent every day having a lot of 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:09.959 video conferences, giving workshops, explaining to all the volunteers how 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.120 it was done, how it worked, why it was safe 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.320 for mandoles companies, training them to do a companiamento. 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.960 Accompaniment being there during the whole abortion process, regardless of 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:24.120 the legal risks. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:31.640 Yeahtoria, and from those people, we formed a lot of 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.120 groups throughout the US. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:49.400 Self managed abortion wasn't only getting support from across the border. 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.959 There were other notes simultaneously developing around the US. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.720 This is new abortion pills by mail is really really new. 0:10:58.840 --> 0:10:59.800 In the United States. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.080 This is Elisa Wells, one of the founders of an 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.600 organization called plan C, which focuses on getting people bills 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.959 without having to go to a clinic in person. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.240 A lot of people still don't even know about it, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.000 and when they find out about it, they think, whoa 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.640 you know that is? That's insane. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.400 Plancy's website links people to a variety of places where 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.120 they can order abortion pills online, in many cases both 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:31.679 MIFA pristone and Misoprosto. The website lists international clinics and 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.040 pharmacies abroad that sell the pills, and also US based 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.360 groups that mail free pills to people living in states 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.280 with abortion restrictions. Plan C tests the pills from all 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.080 these sources to make sure they're real. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.920 These are viable ways for people to access pills, especially 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.160 if they live in a place where there are so 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.720 many restrictions that they could be forced to carry a 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.520 pregnancy to term. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.199 Other groups in the network focused on raising awareness about 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.160 self managing with pills. They put up billboards through parties, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.760 slapstickers advertising abortion pills on bathroom doors, and they also 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.240 pulled publicity stunts. 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.440 Jack, So I want to start with you, you seem 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:20.800 to be promoting abortion pills. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.560 Like activists Jex Blackmore. They're part of the organization Shout 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.880 Your Abortion. In twenty twenty two, they went live on 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.080 a Detroit Fox affiliate to talk about the pills and 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:31.840 do an impromptu demonstration. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.000 Charlie, I just really I want to show you how 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.160 easy it is and save if it is by taking 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:37.840 it myself. 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.319 You're taking it, are you are? 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:44.360 You're not pregnant? 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:45.760 Are you? 0:12:46.080 --> 0:13:00.120 I would say that this is going to end a pregnancy? 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:06.520 And then some groups focused on providing support. Activists answer 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.080 questions on Reddit and US based hotlines, including a hotline 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.680 run by doctors like Maya Bass, the doctor we heard 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:15.360 from earlier. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.520 I was taught that you need to have an ultrasound, 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.319 and you need to have this, and you need to 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:20.640 have all this. 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.400 So like I didn't think it was safe. She thought 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.600 this until she read research to the contrary, research that 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.360 showed women around the world were taking MISA on their 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.160 own and doing it safely. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.760 Maya was shocked, like wait, what, Like seriously, I never 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:38.720 knew about any of this. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.920 Studies Maya read showed that the protocol she used, the 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:48.960 multiple appointments, the ultrasound wasn't always needed, and she felt. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:54.199 That realizing that I was unnecessarily putting people through hoops 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:59.680 that's hard. And then I felt also excited slash maybe 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.320 release like this means that I can be less scared 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.800 for people who are doing this. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.280 After Maya's realization, she wanted to offer women support. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.240 So it really became like, Okay, how can I help? 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.240 Right at that point, it's like what can we do next? 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.160 She decided to become part of the network by volunteering 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.000 for the support hotline set up by doctors. It's called 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:32.120 the Miscarriage and Abortion Hotline. Maya news self managed abortions 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:37.440 couldn't replace all abortions. Some people need medical intervention or 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.240 just preferred to go to the clinic. But to Maya, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.440 the hotline and the immediate access it gave women to 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.680 doctors felt innovative. No longer wait times, no expensive or 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:50.880 unnecessary tests. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.280 It feels like I'm just on the cutting edge of medicine. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.880 I'm practicing evidence based medicine that is the leading edge 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.160 of what repairted of health care might look like. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.600 In recent years, American doctors on the whole have gotten 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.040 more comfortable with self managed abortion The American College of 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:20.280 Obstetricians and Gynecologists has publicly supported it. In a statement, 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.560 they called on doctors to educate themselves and provide assistance 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:30.200 for patients who self manage. Other doctors have acted more directly, 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.160 prescribing pills from states with abortion protections to people in 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:39.160 states with restrictions. This wasn't the network of the nineties 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.320 anymore small and niche. In the span of just a 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.359 few years, it had grown and become far more organized. 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.200 And then, on June twenty fourth, twenty twenty two. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.440 The Supreme Court upended nearly a half century of legal precedent. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.280 The day the network had been preparing for arrived. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.320 It's a moment advocates for abortion rights have feared and 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.880 that opponents have been working toward for decades. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.680 In the case Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization, the 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:29.320 Court overturned Roversus Wade. It left the legality of abortion 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.920 up to the states, thirteen of which immediately criminalized or 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.200 nearly banned abortion. On the day role was overturned, the 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.800 number of women reaching out to the network grew exponentially. 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.080 Our website traffic went from about three thy eight hundred 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.920 a day to three hundred and eighty two thousand. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.480 And it didn't stop once Rowe fell. We reached about 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.640 two thousand people a day in our first month. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:58.960 We have days now where the phone is kind of 0:16:59.000 --> 0:16:59.760 ringing all day. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.600 This waterfall of call coming in groups that male people 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.000 pills were inundated. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.920 They got so many requests that it crashed their system. 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.159 It just shows you how big the demand is for 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:12.840 this service. 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.000 Over the past few years, the network's role has expanded 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.200 in the US, and self managed abortion has become more mainstream. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.200 Cosmopolitan magazine even published a handful of articles about self 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.199 managed abortion, including a complete how to guide. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:31.840 But it's not just. 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.160 Women who want abortions who are paying attention. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.520 We've certainly been called drug dealers. We've been called murderers, abortionists, 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:39.360 you name it. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.199 The anti abortion movement is too. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.600 People who are working in their communities to help other 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.000 people access abortions. They are increasingly coming under the crosshairs. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.040 That's after the break. 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.280 The legal landscape around abortion has been constantly shifting since 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.040 Rowe was overturned, with dozens of new state laws restricting 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.400 abortion going into effect. It can be hard to keep 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.480 track and for people seeking abortions. All the changes have 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.280 created a lot of uncertainty, confusion, and fear. 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:23.400 People are just absolutely terrified. They are experiencing spiraling anxiety. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.040 This is Elizabeth Lying, a lawyer at ifwen how, a 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:33.040 reproductive justice organization. She helps run their legal helpline. She 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.280 says they've been getting a lot of calls in the 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.840 past few years with people asking questions about the safety 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.520 of self managing their abortion or helping someone else. Not 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:47.240 medical safety, but legal safety. If they do it, will 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.160 they end up in jail? 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.520 Is my Internet history being watched? Is my mail going 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.280 to be searched? A lot of what of this happens? 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.080 What if this happens? What if this happens? 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.639 She says. The fear has made some people too scared 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:00.000 to act. 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.960 The chilling effect makes people afraid to even ask the 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.359 question of what are my options because they are worried 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.120 that if I ask the question of what are my options, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.240 that is now somehow going to get me into legal trouble. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.080 The people who call into the legal helpline are not 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.359 being paranoid. Seeking an abortion can put you at legal risk. 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.919 It didn't used to be this way. Historically, abortion seekers 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.000 have not been the target of restrictions doctors have and 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:40.159 they still are. Some state attorneys general have sued the 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.320 doctors who are doing the work we mentioned earlier mailing 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.080 pills from states with abortion protections to people in states 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:48.280 with restrictions. 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.520 But a self managed abortion with pills has taken off, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.480 abortion opponents have broaden their strategy. 0:19:55.160 --> 0:20:01.040 They have realized that banning abortions after sixpeaks of pregnancy 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.520 is not sufficient to stop people from ending unwanted pregnancies. 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.240 Parad Estello is a lawyer and colleague of elizabeths at 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.920 if When how She's watched how abortion opponents have begun 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.840 to target women the network and its method self managing 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.440 with pills. But bringing charges against women at least has 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.160 been challenging because for the most part, there aren't specific 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.280 laws that criminalize ending your own pregnancy. With the exception 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.320 of Nevada, it is not illegal for a person to 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:37.120 self manage their abortion. So prosecutors are getting creative. They're 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.040 using other laws to charge women. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.359 Laws that prohibit concealing a birth that were intended to 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.680 punish people for hiding out of wedlock births, laws against 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.560 abuse of a corpse, which are really about desecration of 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.040 human remains and brave robbing. 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.680 And on the most extreme end of the spectrum in. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.760 Some seats, we're talking about homicide charges. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.359 That happened to a woman in Texas after the state 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.879 passed its six week abortion ban. She was arrested for 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.240 murder after taking abortion pills. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.040 Charged with murder because of a quote self induced abortion. 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.240 She's been arrested and will be arranged Wednesday. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.760 Abortion opponents are also going after the people women are 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.080 turning two for support, people who. 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.840 Are working in their communities to help other people access abortions. 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.160 They are increasingly coming under the crosshairs. 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.200 In some cases, mothers who've helped their daughters self managed 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.520 have been arrested. Cases like these have made news in 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.919 Louisiana and Nebraska. 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.439 A teenage girl and her mom in Nebraska are facing 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.639 criminal charges following the teen's abortion. Alice got their Facebook 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.320 messages about it through a search warrant. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:55.640 The pills themselves have also become a political target. For example, 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.280 Robert F. Kennedy Junior brought them up at his confirmation 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.080 hearing to become US Secretary of Health and Human Services. 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.080 President Trump has made it clear to me that he 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.640 wants me to look at safety issues. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.439 He recently ordered the Food and Drug Administration to review 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.440 federal regulations for one of the abortion pills, mifa priston. 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.040 He referred to a paper from a conservative think tank 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.840 that questioned the safety of mifa pristone and called for 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.200 more restrictions on the drug, but it wasn't peer reviewed, 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.760 and medical experts have criticized it for flaws in its analysis. 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.720 More than one hundred peer reviewed studies have found the 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:40.119 use of abortion pills to be safe. On the state level, 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:43.920 some laws find people thousands of dollars for giving out 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.560 pills if they are not licensed to provide abortions. A 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:50.560 few make it a crime with the possibility of jail time. 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.200 So far, only a few women have gone to jail 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.760 for having abortions or supporting others through it. But Pharah 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.440 said that even for people who don't go to jail, 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:04.760 there are still lasting effects. 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.120 That person's name comes up again in Google searches, and 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:14.280 that creates this indelible, inescapable record. I've had former clients 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.320 who have been unable to get work. I've had clients 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.800 had to change their names because of the harassment they 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:21.520 faced in their Communities. 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.800 Far's organization if when How has been keeping track of 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.600 the ways people get caught up in the legal system. 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.840 About half of all criminal cases for self managing start 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.800 in a medical setting. According to the organization's data, the 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.000 vast majority of self managed abortions with bills do not 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.919 result in any complications, but if a woman feels like 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.320 something might be wrong and goes to the hospital, she 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.000 increases her chances of coming into contact with law enforcement. 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:57.320 Hospital personnel, whether that was nurses, doctors, social workers reported 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.399 them to law enforcement because they were suspicious of them. 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.400 Once it happens, it is like a train going down 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:04.800 a track. 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.080 If healthcare workers think someone may have committed a crime, 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.720 they're allowed to share information with the police that would 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:17.119 otherwise be private. As we've said, except in Nevada, self 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:20.639 managing is not a crime, so there's no reason for 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:25.240 doctors and nurses to call the police, but sometimes they do. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:29.760 Anyway, FARA has noticed that some people are more likely 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.840 than others to end up in legal trouble. 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.119