1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: A gorgeous young mom, literally a soccer mom goes missing. 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: She's caught on video walking her little dog. She seemingly 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: goes into a high rise building and never emerges, left 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: behind her eleven year old little boy asking where's mommy? 5 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. First of all, take a 6 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Fox eleven LA. We just 7 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: sign LAPD patrol unit leave the landfill. We believe they're 8 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: actually been stationed overnight guarding the remains the garbage that 9 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: is now being searched. That search set to resume at 10 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: a daylight. But take a look at some video for me. 11 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: Yesterday's search, LAPD detectives with the Robbery Homicide Division using 12 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: human remaine detection canines cadaver detection canines began the arduous 13 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: task of sifting through tons of trash here at the 14 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: Chiquita Canyon landfill looking for the remains of Heidi Plank, 15 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: confirming publicly yesterday they believe that she has dead. The 16 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: missing mother hasn't been seen since October seventeenth, when a 17 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: security camera captured her walking her dog in downtown Los Angeles. 18 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: They believe she's dead, but without a body, that may 19 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: not be true. Missing her little boy's birthday party is 20 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: something that Heidi Plank would never have done. You were 21 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at Fox eleven. Now take a 22 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at NBC. This was the scene 23 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: at dawn at the Chiquita Canyon landfill. Numerous investigators preparing 24 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: for what could be a week long search for a 25 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: missing mom. Detect you from the LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division 26 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: putting on protective suits and boots to sift through potentially 27 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: tons of trash by hand, searching for signs of Heidi 28 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: Plank's body or other key evidence in the case. The 29 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: city of La brought in heavy excavators to dig into 30 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: places where trash from that downtown apartment building was transported. 31 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: The LAPD now confirming forensic evidence found at the apartment 32 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: building in downtown La where Plank was last seen several 33 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: weeks ago and where her dog was found soon after, 34 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: was a key clue that led to the landfill and 35 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: the conclusion that Heidi Plank died probably the same day 36 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: she disappeared. Did she or did she simply disappear? Again, 37 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and thank you 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: for being with us, with me an all Star panel 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: before I introduced them. Let me first go to special 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: guests joining us. John Ellwood, Deputy Chief Manatee County Search 41 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: and Rescue. You can find him in Manatee County SA 42 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: our Search and Rescue dot org. John, thank you so 43 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: much for being with us. You know we just as 44 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: a matter of rote just toss it off. There's a 45 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: search at a landfill. It's anything but that easy. It's 46 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: very difficult to do a land fill search. Sometimes I 47 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: catch myself saying land field, because it's usually a huge 48 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: feel as bigger, bigger than a football field. And you 49 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: think of a woman's body underneath literally tons of debris, 50 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: all sorts of debris, old furniture, trash, refuse of all sorts, 51 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: her body decomposing, coming apart, and finding part of a body, 52 00:03:53,480 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: say hair, a bone in a football field size landfield. 53 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: And we just heard our friends at NBC state they 54 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: had to put on protective hasmat in effect clothing to 55 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: do this to you. John Ellwood explained to me how 56 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: a land feel search is done. Sure, Nancy, first you 57 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: have to look at I'm sure the detectives determined at 58 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: what time the trash in that area may have been 59 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: picked up landfills. How they normally work is that they're 60 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: gritted out, meaning that they're filled by sections, so they 61 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: would find out what truck number. Wait a minute, Wait 62 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: a minute, John, you got to slow down on our 63 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: channel today. You have practicing lawyers, you've got one forensic expert, 64 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: you've got a psychiatrist, and you've got a crack reporter 65 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: from Inside Edition. But we're not experts at searches. So 66 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: let's just start with we're gonna have to dissect. Just 67 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: be glad you weren't one of the witnesses I'd put 68 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: on the stand. I have to take a part every 69 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: word for hours and hours before you got on the stand, 70 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: so I can understand what you're saying. But when you 71 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: say grit, let's just pretend you got a piece of 72 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: paper and this represents the field into sections. Then hold on. 73 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: What you would do is divide that big football field. 74 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you can see this into different sections, 75 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: tiny sections, because who knows how deep the trash could be. 76 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Now that's what it means, I think, to grid grit 77 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: out the field? Is that what you mean by gritting it? Yes, ma'am, 78 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: they did it. They divide it into sections, and then 79 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: they put in certain amount of waste. Then it gets 80 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: covered by a layer of dirt, and then more waste 81 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: and then another layer of dirt and how and the 82 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: reason why I'm familiar with this is what the fire 83 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: station that I used to work at in our primary 84 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: response area, we used to respond to the landfill all 85 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: the time. So when we had to tour of the facility, 86 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: they kind of explain how they do. I don't know 87 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: what you're saying about layers of dirt. You're saying that 88 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: the searcher put layers of dirt or that the landfill does. Right, 89 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: So the garbage truck comes in, dumps, dumps the refuge 90 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: onto the ground, and then they bring in dirt to 91 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: put on top on top of what was dumped, and 92 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: then they'll put another layer of trash and then another 93 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: layer of dirt. See hold on just a minute. Daryl Cohen, 94 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer, was a former prosecutor in inter 95 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: city Atlanta with me now renowned defense attorney joining us 96 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: out of Atlanta. Daryl, you and I have talked about 97 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: landfill searches many times. Did you know that there's a 98 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: layer of trash just think of a football field and 99 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: the dump trucks keep coming. I guess they dump around 100 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: the field, not all in one spot. But then they 101 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: put a layer of dirt on top of that. Did 102 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: you know that? I did not know that springs up? 103 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: Another question is how deep is this layer of dirt? 104 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: Is it just sort of like top soil or is 105 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: it two or three inches or a foot thick? And 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, Darryl, I'm about to find out. 107 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: Excuse me to you, John Ellwood, I wasn't going to 108 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: ask that, but that's a good question. How how much dirt? 109 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: It's usually a couple of feet I mean, whatever the 110 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: best management practices. I mean, obviously that's not my four 111 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: tape waste management, but I mean I can just tell 112 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: you that, having been too responses at landfills, I'm just 113 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: kind of familiar with their practice. Okay, so they gritted out, 114 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: the searchers grit out the field, and then what how 115 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: deep is the trash? Typically it could be several feet deep. 116 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: Tone oh man, it could be twenty thirty feet deep. Okay, 117 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: let me just take that in for a moment. Let 118 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: me just take that in because sometimes you know, I 119 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: look at all my files that I've got all laid out. 120 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: I think I gotta do this. I got to do 121 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: that for the twins. I gotta do this for my mom. 122 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: But La la, I gotta go through all these files 123 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: and it's overwhelming. Can you imagine Jackie going up to 124 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: a landfill thirty twenty thirty feet deep, trash and debris rotting, 125 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: and you have to start looking for a decomposing body 126 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: in a football field size landfill. I just this is 127 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: deep as a house. I would assume that they would 128 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: bring in dogs as well. Daryl, are you a landfill expert? 129 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: I know you're used to shuttling that you know what, 130 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: but just can we get back to the expert, just 131 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: this one time, Daryl Cohen, I can't believe doctor Angie 132 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: Arnold has managed not to pipe in yet. I'll be 133 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: right to you, Angie, right to you. Time Stories with 134 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace john Elle went back to you. Okay, landfill 135 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: starts go ahead. So I'm sure the detectives have leads 136 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: that they've been following, so they have an idea of 137 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: approximate time that this plank may have been picked up 138 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: by the garbage guy. Yes, ma'am picked up. You make 139 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: it sound much she's catching an uber out on the corner. 140 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: You mean, once she's dead, let's just pretend throwing down 141 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: the trash sheet on the whatever twenty first floor into 142 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: the trash. Then you're saying the detect was to figure 143 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: out when the garbage from that building was taken to 144 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: the dump and what part of the grid that trash 145 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: was dumped. Correct. Okay, that would give them obviously an 146 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: area of interest and where one of your other panelists 147 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: said that you could use can i ins. And the 148 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: thing about when you talk about human remains canines and 149 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: cadaver canis just to differentiate between the two. Cadaver can 150 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: ins deal with a large source, meaning it could be 151 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: like a body part. Human remains detection canine deal in 152 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: very small sources. It could be in grams. So when 153 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: you talked about bodily fluid hair, a fingernail, something, something 154 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: very small, that's what those canines can do. And what 155 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: that what those canines could do is if you have 156 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: an area of interest, then they could actually locate it 157 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: to a certain point. And then if you're familiar with 158 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: how archaeologists do their quote unquote digs where they take 159 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: PBC pipes and they interlace it to actually form a 160 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: little grid, and then they'll start excavating that interlacing pipe. 161 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: What yes, ma'am. If if you think you're familiar with 162 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: PBC piping, why what they do is plastic looking Yeah, yes, ma'am, 163 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: white plastic pipe. So what they do is they'll lay 164 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: them out to form like small squares, right, and then 165 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: they will start uncovering at the surface, staying within the 166 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: small squares, kind of coloring in the lines, so to speak, 167 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: if that makes sense to you. So they put that 168 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: on they have and start digging down, man, and then 169 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: start working their way down. And then with a pipe, 170 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: it's to help isolate and create an exact area. So 171 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: if evidence is located, then what they'll do is they'll 172 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: use GPS to mark the location of that as well 173 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: as obviously forensics will take the pictures and collect the evidence. 174 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: So you've got blood bloodhounds, I'll call them, for lack 175 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: of a better term, that could pick on. Pick up 176 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: on a piece of tissue paper where a guy cuts 177 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: his chin shaving, throws it away, You're going to pick 178 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: up on all types bodily fluids. And that's the thing 179 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: that with canines not an exact science as far as 180 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: when you're using human remain canines to find that particular person. 181 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: All they're going to do is they're going to locate 182 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: any type of human tissue or and that's where your 183 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: friends would obviously have to do DNA testing to say yes, 184 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: it is indeed this person or no it is not. 185 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: So when you lay the PB site PBC pipe squares 186 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: on top of the dump and you start digging down 187 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: within that square, what do you do with what you 188 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: dig up? Put it in a bag. Obviously, material that 189 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: is not related to the case they'll put to one side. 190 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: And anything that they find as possible evidence, then they 191 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: would go through their normal collection procedures as far as documentation, tagging, 192 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: and bagging, because like if you throw it over your shoulder, 193 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: are you're just going to have to redig it up 194 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: when you get to that that square, could lord, ma'am? 195 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: And they have to wear hazmat suits also, John Elwood, 196 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: why yes, ma'am. If you look at when you see 197 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: the white suits, it's made out of a material called 198 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: seranec tibec TWA BK. And what that does is it 199 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: gives the person a certain amount of protection because you 200 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: think about any thing and everything that people dispose of 201 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: and they're trash, to include possibly biohazardous waste, you know, needles, 202 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: things of that nature that you want to make sure 203 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: that the gators are protected. That also brings a point 204 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: to where canines may actually wear booties over their feet 205 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: to protect their paws. Nancy, I'm going to jump in here. Yeah, 206 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: go ahead with me. Is I was just about to 207 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: introduce everyone. Karen L. Smith. You're hearing forensic expert lecturer 208 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: University Florida, hosts a Shatter Souls podcast and you can 209 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: find her at Barebones Forensic dot com. Jump in, Karen Smith. 210 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: I've been to the landfill a few times, unfortunately, on 211 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: searches for human remains, and I can tell you that 212 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: we wear the tivec yes, but when you're digging through 213 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 1: this stuff. On one dig five of our investigators ended 214 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: up with a staff infection, a very serious one, and 215 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: a couple of them were hospitalized for it. So this 216 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: is very very serious. It's very disgusting and dirty when 217 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: we dig through this compress scrash, and you have to 218 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: remember every time that layer of dirt and that layer 219 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: of trash is placed down. John did a fantastic explanation 220 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: of how that works. But it's compressed with a steam roller, 221 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: So you're dealing with scrash that has then pressed down 222 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: to make room for the next layer. So it's not 223 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: just that we're rooting through with our hands. We're using rakes, 224 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: we're using shovels, we're opening bags, we're looking through every 225 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: single thing. And you asked what happens to the bags 226 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: or the trash once we're done with it. There is 227 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: a specific section set aside four things that have been 228 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: through that do not contain forensic evidence, So that is 229 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: set aside. I got a question for each air and 230 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand how if you're covered head to net, 231 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: truist to toe, yes, protective has mat covering, how does 232 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: somebody get a staff infection? That's a really good question. 233 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: I mean you're dealing with sharp object. I don't know, 234 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: as something may have pierced the glove or scratch their arm. 235 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: What is that? Dodger, Angie, you're not only a psychiatrust 236 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: but let me get you to fall back on your MD. 237 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: What has a staff infection? And why would these searchers 238 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: get staff infections? And Karen said there are really bad 239 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: staff infections. Doesn't that get into your blood? Yes, it 240 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: can get into your blood. A staff infection is a 241 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: certain type of bacteria that I mean, Nancy, you know 242 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: how when some people, when we've heard these stories about 243 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: people with flesh eating bacteria and things like that, those 244 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: are a type of staff infection. How do you get it? 245 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: You get it by touching. It's by touching something. It's 246 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: not by breathing it in. Some things we get by 247 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: breathing in through our lungs. But these particular staff infections 248 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: are by and you know, Nancy, the problem is with 249 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: this landfill where all this nastiness is. The staff can 250 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: just be growing in there, Okay, like as I said, 251 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: a flesh eating bacteria, it can just be growing in 252 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: that ground. When you say touch it, what is it 253 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: that you're touching, you're touching the actual the ground has 254 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: the bacteria in it, just like the people can go 255 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: in the ocean. And if you have a little bit 256 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: of an open wound, I mean, we all have little 257 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: scratches on us, and the bacteria comes in through those 258 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: slight open wounds. That's why some people will get it 259 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: and some people won't. You know, I've always wondered about that, doctor, Angie, 260 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: and you just explain it. You know, we have devoted 261 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: all this time to a landfill search. Oh, we haven't 262 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: even been talking about the missing victim. Heidi Plank, the mom, 263 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: I said, eleven year old when I first started our program. 264 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: Today he had a birthday? Didn't he have a birthday? Jackie? 265 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm going to go to Mira Montalbano, reporter 266 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: with Insight Edition. Maria, thank you so much for being 267 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: with us. Typically I start immediately with our reporter, who 268 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: knows he was the very latest. Did the son have 269 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: a birthday? I believe his name is Bond. Did he 270 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: turn eleven or did he tail turn twelve while mom 271 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: is missing? Um? I believe he turned eleven. I believe 272 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: he was ten when she went missing, and he turned eleven. Um. 273 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: But we haven't really heard too much from the son directly. 274 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I know we've heard from his dad mostly 275 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: Heidi husband, who has been you know, out there. He 276 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: really wants you know, he wanted to see her come 277 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: home and to you know, at least have her at 278 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: her own birthday party. But you know, unfortunately that doesn't 279 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: look like that's going to happen and a very devoted mother. 280 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys with Me. Daryl co 281 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: informer prosecutor now renowned trial attorney out of the Atlanta Jurisdiction. 282 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists joining us. Also out of Atlanta. 283 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: Karin Smith joining US forensic expert University Florida lecturer and 284 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: host a Shattered Souls podcast. John Elwood, Deputy Chief with 285 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: the Manatee County Search and Rescue at Manatee County SAAR 286 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: dot org and investigative reporter Withinside Edition dot com. Mary 287 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: and Montalbano. Guys take a Listen to Mary, Mary Beth 288 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: McDade a, Katie l As the ets husband of missing 289 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: mom thirty nine year old Heidi Plank says authorities are 290 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: now searching an area of the Jiquita CanYa landfill and 291 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: castaic for her body. The mid City woman was last 292 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: seen on security cameras on October seventeenth walking her dog 293 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: outside the Hope and Flower Building in downtown La. Her 294 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: dog was found later that evening wandering on the twenty 295 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: ninth floor of the high rise. Forensic evidence was located 296 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: inside the building, which detectives to believe that an incident 297 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: occurred resulting in plekstet. Investigators won't reveal what that evidence is. 298 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: I think that friends and family alike, we've kind of 299 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: all been hyper folks bused on the building from day one. Obviously, 300 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: detectives believe the same thing. None November fourth, detectives found 301 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: Heidi's gray Range Rover in a parking lot of a 302 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: different residential building just two blocks away. Huh Range are 303 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: over belonging to mom in a different building two blocks away, 304 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: They find her dog wandering on the twenty ninth floor 305 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: of a high rise. What do they find that makes 306 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: them believe they need to go search a land feel? 307 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: First of all, back to you, Mira Montalbano joining us 308 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: from Inside edition dot com. Where is Castaic? Oh, it's 309 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: inland from LA. It's about I want to I mean 310 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: about twenty miles, I think, yeah, it's not very close. 311 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: So they're searching a landfill inc a state. Is that right, 312 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: Jaquia Kenyon landfill? That's right? Yes? And you know, I 313 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: mean I've spoken to the LAPD as recently as yesterday 314 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: and the investigators are still out there. I mean it's 315 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: been more than a week now. They are still searching 316 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: for anything. They would not say yesterday if they actually 317 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: found anything, but they are still looking for hiding basically, Well, 318 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: it reminds me just at first blush, you know, doctor Angie, 319 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: you and I cover the Gabby Petito Brian laundry case, 320 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: and the cops kept going back to Carlton Reserve, kept 321 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: going back, and I kept saying, he's either not there 322 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: or he's in there dead, because they would have found him. 323 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: But they kept going back for a reason. And like 324 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: mar and Montalbano is saying, they're not leaving that landfill. 325 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: They haven't found anything, but they're not leaving, and there's 326 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: a reason for that, Doctor Angie. They must know something. 327 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Nancy, you know how it's 328 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: it feels like it's always so shocking when I know, 329 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: during the Gabby Petito thing, well, we were all wondered, 330 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: why do they keep going back there? Nobody can live there? 331 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: Why did they keep going back? New My gosh, they 332 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: found him there, didn't they They certainly did, And the 333 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: exact same thing is going to happen here. They aren't 334 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: wasting their goll know what they're doing. And John Elwyn 335 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: joining US Deputy chief Manatee County Search and Rescue. They 336 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: are guarding the landfill at night. Why, well, probably because 337 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: of a chain of custody issues in some of the 338 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: panelists being attorneys, know that defense attorney's going to try 339 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: to throw doubt as to somebody may have planet evidence 340 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: as opposed to it was actually collected at that location. Yeah. 341 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer, put it in legal lees 342 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: what he just said, and he's absolutely right about chain 343 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: of custody. I'm going to take it out of legal 344 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: lees and put it in If we can't show that 345 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: it's stayed unpainted, if we can't show that no one 346 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: went in there, then it's subject to being thrown out. 347 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: So that's not legal ease, that's just dumbing it down 348 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: for the jury or explaining it. Yeah, because I think 349 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: some of those juries jurars are smarter than you and 350 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: I put together, Darrell, So let's not talk about dumbing 351 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: down for the jury. Maybe dumbing down for it Nancy 352 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: and Darrell, but not for the jury. So in other words, 353 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: I think Jackie did it. That's what the defense lawyer 354 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: will say. And Jackie here in the studio, she had 355 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: the body hidden in her home this whole time. So 356 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: she took it when nobody was guarding the landfill, and 357 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: she hit it there and then scurried away in the 358 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: dark of night. That's what happened. That would be an 359 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: excellent argument for the defense, except but for the fact that, 360 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: as John Ellwood's telling us, that landfill is guarded day 361 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: and night to protect the evidence and the chain of 362 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: custody should we ever find her body or her remains. Now, 363 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: you just heard Mary Beth mcday that Katie La five. 364 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: But how did this whole thing start? Take a listen 365 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: to our friend at k C AL nine, Stacy Butler. 366 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: Where are you? That was the last communication Heidi Plank's 367 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: ten year old son had with his mom eleven days ago. 368 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: I said, can you please call me back? You haven't 369 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: called me back in two days in a row. This 370 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: is security tape of the thirty nine year old mom 371 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: from Palms with her dog named seven, on her way 372 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: to her son's football game Sunday, October seventeenth. She's leaving 373 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: her house, She's got the dog following behind her. She's 374 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: got a tiny little purse under her arm, and she 375 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: jumps into her range rover and drives away Hitnah to 376 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: her son's soccer game. She's a very devoted mom. Now 377 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: you heard little bond State Mom, I hadn't talked to 378 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: you in two days. And that's because the mom and 379 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: dad are divorced, amicable, get along, both heavily involved with 380 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: raising their son. So he was with dad. That's why 381 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't immediately noticed she was missing. But on day two. 382 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: You know what my son said to those of you 383 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: that know him, Karen Smith. The other morning, I was 384 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: working and I couldn't be there to wake him up 385 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: and turn on the music. Oh what a beautiful morning 386 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: by Gordon McRae from Oklahoma. I'm sure they're gonna wake 387 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: up years from now without ringing in their ears. He said, Mom, 388 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: I forgot X whatever it was, because you weren't there. 389 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: You weren't there playing the music, and I didn't see you, 390 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: and I just everything went sideways because it is a 391 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: certain routine. And here we first realize she's missing when 392 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: the son alerts everyone, Hey, I hunting her from mom 393 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: in two days. When I'm with dad, I talked to 394 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: her every day. He didn't hear from her in two days. 395 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: That's called routine evidence and that it is evidence of 396 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: someone's behavior, their routine. Karen right. That was one of 397 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: my first questions was, you know, does she speak to 398 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: her son on a daily basis of the parents are divorced. 399 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: You would think with zoom and with FaceTime and all 400 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: these other things, you would say good night to your child, 401 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: or hey, how was your school day? Something like that. 402 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: And the first thing that hit me was when was 403 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: her last communication with her son? Now we know, and 404 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: that starts the timeline of something obviously nefarious happening to her. 405 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting, Daryl Cohen, you and I've 406 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: seen this a million times in cases that we've tried. 407 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: I just remember what it was my son John David 408 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: how I knew something was wrong when I finally went 409 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: back to the kitchen. I saw on the din floor 410 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: his strawberry shake. I make him a strawberry shake organic 411 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: every day. That's what he has for breakfast. Lucy's on 412 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: a kick where she wants to make her own beautiful 413 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: breakfast that she's obviously seen on Instagram and it's like 414 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: fresh fruit and it's beautiful. I want to take a picture, 415 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: but I don't have time. But I saw his shake 416 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: Darryl sitting on the floor by the sofa in the din. I. 417 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: He always takes that on the way to school and 418 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: drinks it on the way to school. What happened? And 419 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: it was half full that afternoon? Said, what happened? You 420 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: didn't have your breakfast? And that's when he said, you 421 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: didn't come in, you didn't play the music. Every I 422 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: forgot everything and went crazy because it wasn't his standard routine. 423 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: And that is what this little boy noticed day two, 424 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: hat and face times with mom. How many times Daryl 425 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: Cohen has one little detail like that solved a murder case. Nancy. 426 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: It's not the big stuff. It's as you say, it's 427 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: the little stuff. It's the little things that we don't 428 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: even notice until they're not there. So they've solved numerous 429 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: murder cases, frost robbery cases, numerous rate cases. What happens 430 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: is every day we've got to shake and all of 431 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: a sudden, it's half gone, half there. Something happened. What's 432 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: going on? You weren't in the surrey with a fringe 433 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: on top. You weren't having old a beautiful morning. What happened? Mom? 434 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: Something's going on? So his mom, who he's accustomed to 435 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: speaking to even when he's not with her, or especially 436 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: when he's not with her, didn't talk to him. Time 437 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace And back to Maera and Montalbanos. 438 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,479 Speaker 1: You're wanting up from Inside Edition dot com. He's been 439 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: on this case from the very very beginning. Maria, again, 440 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. That is seemingly what 441 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: set the search in to motion. Tell me about the 442 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: video that first emerged of Heidi out walking her dog. 443 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: Where was that? Was that the outside of her home? 444 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: Are you talking about the latest video of that's shot 445 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: from the back, because no, that was taken. They said 446 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: it was close to the last location where she was seeing. 447 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: This was very hiring. Yeah, okay, I'm glad you said that. 448 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that to differentiate between the videos. 449 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: The first video I think it's her. It's like rain 450 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: came or something like that at her home, coming out, 451 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: She's getting in the car to go soccer game. Okay, 452 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: now where are you talking about. I'm talking about this 453 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: video that kind of shows a woman from the back. 454 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if you know, if the police didn't say 455 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: that this was Heidia, I wouldn't have known because it's 456 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: it's just kind of her from the back walking a 457 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: dog on a leash um and you know, that's that's 458 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: kind of all you know, we're seeing. But they're saying 459 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: that this is the last video of her before she vanished. Now, 460 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: this video is not near her home. This video is 461 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: near the building where the dog is wandering around inside 462 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: on the twenty ninth floor. Now, listen, don't discount an 463 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: animal taking an elevator. Because our frequent guest, high profile 464 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: lawyer out of Seattle, A. Bremner, had a cat named Jimmy. 465 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,479 Speaker 1: She lives in a high rise and Jimmy knew how 466 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: to wait at the elevator on her high floor and 467 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: when a neighbor would get in, he'd hop on and 468 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: they all knew him, and he'd go to the floor 469 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to get to. And when the elevator finally 470 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: would stop there typically the lobby, Jimmy would get out 471 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: and walk around and go where he wanted to go, 472 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: and then come back and wait at the elevator till 473 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: somebody would take him back up to Anne's floor. That 474 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: is a true story. So there's more than one way 475 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: for a dog to end up running around up and 476 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: down the halls. On the twenty ninth floor. But I 477 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut twenty 478 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: three Mary Beth mcday Katie La five. We're told on 479 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: the day Heidi vanished, there's video of her entering the 480 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: Hope and Flower building but never leaving it, and now 481 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: detectives are searching that Castaic landfill for her body. I 482 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: served as search warrant at the lad fill to excavate 483 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: a specific area, mantually searching for human remains and to 484 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: collect any additional evidence. Prior to her going missing, Heidi 485 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: was caught on her home security cameras getting into a 486 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: range Rover to go see her son play football in Downey. 487 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: She left the game early, but later texted with her son. 488 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: She wanted to congratulate him on his win. Her ex 489 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: husband thanks. Her disappearance could be linked to sac charges 490 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: against your boss, Jason Sugarman at Camden Capital Partners for 491 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: allegedly swindling some forty three million dollars from a tribal nation. 492 00:30:53,360 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: Forty three million dollars fraud. Now that was high the plank, boss, 493 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: is my understanding, Mara montal bone with us. That certainly 494 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: thickens the plot. Let me say take a listen to 495 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: our cut nine. This is Christina Gonzales with Fox eleven. 496 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: There in La Take a listen to Christina Gonzales. A 497 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: lot of the people who know her say they're getting 498 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: calls from the SEC. It seems that she was never 499 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: involved in this, but people she worked with out of 500 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: a company nel Segundo, were being investigated. It's a financial company, 501 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: a financial advising company, and there have been investigations because 502 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: of misuse of funds. Now, she was never investigated, She 503 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. But one of the 504 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: principles was sentenced in twenty twenty to sometime in federal prison. 505 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: That is what they're looking at. Well, hold on just 506 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: a moment, Daryl Cohen that on trial lawyer the boss 507 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: has sent us back in twenty twenty. Wouldn't that be 508 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: over and done with? Or do you believe that somehow 509 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: somebody's worried she quote knows something. Well, it seems to me, Nancy, 510 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: it should be over. But then again, was there a trial, 511 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: is there an appeal? And does he know something? And 512 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: someone else worried that they're going to be thrown under 513 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: the bus, which means they may be prosecuted, and they 514 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: may be at risk for far more problems than her 515 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: boss got. Maybe her boss is rolling now that her 516 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: boss is incarcerated. There's so many maybes that we need 517 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: to determine what the maybes are and are not and 518 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: then start narrowing it down. You know too, Doctor Angela 519 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: Arnold psychiatrists joining us. There are now reports that Heidi 520 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: Plank's boss, not Heidi, but the boss actually did business 521 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: with members of one of the most notorious crime families 522 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: in this country, the Gambino crime family. Now you get 523 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: the mob in on this, people start going missing, Doctor Angie. 524 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: And I will never understand. I often heard and Darrel, 525 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll agree. I'd heard a defendant say I 526 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: was at the wrong place at the wrong time. In 527 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: other words, I was with the wrong crowd. And sometimes 528 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: you do see a good person mixed in with the 529 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,479 Speaker 1: wrong crowd. Why would you stay in business or working 530 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: for somebody that has connections with the Gambino crime family. 531 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: I would run for the heels is if I had 532 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: seen a monster, Doctor Angie. What is it to people 533 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: think they're lulled into complacency, They think nothing bad can 534 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: happen to me. Well, maybe I mean Nancy. Maybe she 535 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: maybe she needed to make a living. Let's make it 536 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,479 Speaker 1: as simple as that. And they probably do lull you 537 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: into a sense of well being, and they're not gonna, 538 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, I don't imagine the Gambino family says, look, 539 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: if you make a wrong turn, we're going to kill 540 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: you and put you in a in a landfill somewhere. Hey, look, 541 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: she may also have been frightened. And she may have 542 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: been frightened. And once you realize here it's so down 543 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: deep do you turn left, right, go up or down? 544 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: The best thing to do is do nothing because she's frightened. 545 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: That tells me a lot more than the Gambino family 546 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: because they don't know the Gambino family. They may know 547 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: Luigi who's going to be the hot moss or going 548 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: to break your leg, But she has got to be 549 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: frightened at this point, and that may very well be 550 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: the key to this whole situation. So you're suggesting she 551 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: went on the run. I don't think she would have 552 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: gone on the run without her son or no, I 553 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: don't think. No. I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm 554 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: suggesting that she was frightened and didn't do anything, and 555 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: that may very well understand their fear that she was 556 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: going to open up and start talking about all the 557 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: little things that happened in the office. That may or 558 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: may not be instrumental in an additional prosecution. Though, Tamia 559 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: Montalbano joining us from inside edition, we know that cops 560 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,959 Speaker 1: have found something in that high rise, not the one 561 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: where her arrange rover was part, but the one where 562 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: the dog was wandering on the twenty ninth floor, which 563 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,919 Speaker 1: shows me a lot of premeditation. Somebody had her part there, 564 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: or parked her range rover at that building and got 565 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: her in another building, or vice versa, got her in 566 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: the first building where the dog is found and then 567 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: moved her range rover. What did they find to send 568 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: them on a search of a landfilled Mayor Montalbano, cops 569 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: are being vague, and I mean that's putting it lightly. 570 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: They have not said anything about what they found. They 571 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: haven't said, you know what, where they found it. Even 572 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: they haven't said it they found it like in an 573 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: apartment building versus like one of the common areas of this, 574 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: like luxury building. So they are being purposely vague, and 575 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: I think they're very much leaving open the possibility that 576 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: this was an accident because they have They're not even 577 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: saying that's so one caused her death. Wait, admit of that, Mara, Mara, 578 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: So an accident where her body disappears, that doesn't make 579 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: any sense. I don't think that's completely out of the 580 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: realm for it to happen. Okay, how could it happen 581 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: or her body disappears? How could that be a you know, 582 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: it's one scenario where this was an accident that possibly. 583 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you touched on it, like earlier 584 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 1: in the show where you said, you know, falling down 585 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: a trash shoot or something. I mean, I know it's 586 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: uh from what you said. You know, like the scenario 587 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: you put out there is like maybe someone put her 588 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: in the trash shoot, but that would be an accident. 589 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: If somebody put you in the trash shoot that no, No, 590 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: that wouldn't be an accident. And there are apparently surveillance 591 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: video cameras I know, in the lobby of that building, 592 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: and I would assume on various floors of the building 593 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: or in the elevators she went in. She never came 594 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: out that we know. Yeah, jump in, John. If I 595 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: could offer another there, I guess tidbit. If everybody's focusing 596 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: on canines being at the landfill, but going back to 597 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: the questions that the panelists have asked, what directed them 598 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: to the landfill, they may have used canines actually at 599 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: that building of interest, they could have used cadaver slash 600 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: human remain detection canines searching her apartment, the trash shoot areas, 601 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: and then they could have also even used tracking canines. 602 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: Because I did this a couple of weeks ago, where 603 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: a vehicle was present, the person was missing. We go 604 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: to the vehicle, We searched from the vehicle, obtained the 605 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: person's sin and found their direction to travel, so they 606 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: could do several different diagnostics to rule things out or 607 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: to find it proof positive. Guys, the tipline two one, three, nine, nine, six, 608 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred or toll three eight seven, seven five to 609 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: seven thirty two forty seven. Where is Heidi? Nancy Gray's 610 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: crime story signing off Goodbye friend,