Speaker 1: From the Heart of Where Innovations, Money and Power Collie
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley, NBR. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline
Speaker 1: Hyde and Ed Ludlow. I'm Caroline Hyder Bloomberg's World Headquarters
Speaker 1: in New York, and I'med Ludlow in San Francisco. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up, we'll look at the implications
Speaker 1: of Trump's indictment on his ability to communicate to his
Speaker 1: own followers through the truth social app been discussed with
Speaker 1: Galen Stocking of the Pew Research Center. Plus, we'll discuss
Speaker 1: the escalating technology war between the US and China as
Speaker 1: Japan joins the United States and Netherlands in restricting exports
Speaker 1: of chipmaking gear to China. And we'll get a read
Speaker 1: on the red hot race for ev dominance with Kia
Speaker 1: Motors COO Steve Center. All that and so much more
Speaker 1: coming up, but we return to those markets, will return
Speaker 1: to some of that news around Japan joining the US
Speaker 1: the Netherlands in terms of impacting and restricting the exports
Speaker 1: of chip industry over to China, and it's impacting the socks.
Speaker 1: I'm looking that down by two point two percent at
Speaker 1: the moment. NASDAC off of its highs that we've been
Speaker 1: seeing off for one and a quarter percent. Today. We're
Speaker 1: basically seeing risk aversion in the market today. We're worried
Speaker 1: about banks, We're worried about economic data pointing towards the
Speaker 1: US recession. We're therefore seeing a flight to safety. US
Speaker 1: government bonds doing well. We're seeing the yields down eleven
Speaker 1: basis points on the two year. Let's move it on
Speaker 1: because actually what's managed to withstand some of the turbulence
Speaker 1: and stock market has been Bitcoin. It is off just
Speaker 1: slightly today, only by up a quarter of a percent,
Speaker 1: though over the last three trading days we're basically stopping
Speaker 1: out at twenty eight thousand DS. Some great reporting coming
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg all about that, but I know you're
Speaker 1: going to dig into some of the microdata. Yeah, look,
Speaker 1: we kind of really risk off. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: positive headlines on the Bloomberg, but not supporting individual stocks.
Speaker 1: Microsoft and Palentteer, for example, both firmly lower, but they've
Speaker 1: expanded their cloud partnership and that was actually boost the
Speaker 1: Palanteer in particular Premrket. It has not held onto those games,
Speaker 1: C three, AI and name we increasingly Track had its
Speaker 1: worst session ever twenty four hours ago, on Track for
Speaker 1: its worst two day drop ever as well. Not a
Speaker 1: lot of support in that AI space, And I just
Speaker 1: put z Scaler there because as part of that risk
Speaker 1: off mode, you look at some of the worst performers
Speaker 1: on the NASDAC one hundred higher, multiple software names really
Speaker 1: getting hit. There is an emphasis right now on stocks
Speaker 1: relating two conservative social media platforms. We've been talking about
Speaker 1: this for a number of days. Digital World Acquisition, the
Speaker 1: spack that's due to take true. Social Public is still
Speaker 1: continuing to slide down number five percent, Rumble also down
Speaker 1: six point three percent. Very short lived. Feel good around
Speaker 1: those conservative social media names, Caroline. When the news cycle
Speaker 1: around Trump started, we've given up those games and we're
Speaker 1: continuing to slide, and we are going to dig into
Speaker 1: exactly those social media names. In a moment. Let's turn
Speaker 1: towards Donald Trump's indictment the former president, of course saying
Speaker 1: it's all political, but District Attorney Alvin Bragg says Trump
Speaker 1: engaged in a so called catch and kill scheme that
Speaker 1: is a scheme to buy and suppress negative information to
Speaker 1: help mister Trump's chance of winning the election. This fake
Speaker 1: case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four election, and it should be dropped immediately, immediately
Speaker 1: with us to wrap it all up, as well as
Speaker 1: some of those techangles, a social media perspective, mimogs, Kutti
Speaker 1: Gupta and extraordinary day. Of course, Kuti talk to us
Speaker 1: a little bit about what indeed you're seeing after the impact.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was historical in many ways. It was
Speaker 1: historical in many ways, a potential first criminal conviction to
Speaker 1: any American president in history. It's a massive deal. Isn't
Speaker 1: going to disqualify him from president? Even if it is
Speaker 1: a criminal conviction? The answers simply no, because there are
Speaker 1: other cases that could potentially do that, things like treason,
Speaker 1: things like moving some of those classified documents from Washington
Speaker 1: see to mar Lago. But today the conviction that we
Speaker 1: heard or is someb the arraignment that we saw yesterday.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting the way that it's really turned into
Speaker 1: kind of banter for his campaign for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: And that's going to be the crucial takeaway here. At
Speaker 1: what point did the legal allegations actually rally his base
Speaker 1: and social media is a really big part of that.
Speaker 1: A great example was his comments when he went back
Speaker 1: to Marlago last evening at eight fifteen pm Eastern. He
Speaker 1: specifically called out the likes of Twitter, Meta, which is
Speaker 1: interesting because it's only recently that he's been allowed back
Speaker 1: on to those platforms Critty. Both the judge in the
Speaker 1: arraignment and the district's attorney had something to say about
Speaker 1: the influence and impact of social media and Trump's use
Speaker 1: of it. What did they say, Yeah, it's been a
Speaker 1: very careful kind of maneuvering and how this case is handled.
Speaker 1: A mug shot, for example, was pretty typical when you
Speaker 1: do have an arraignment like this. This time around, though
Speaker 1: the mug shot did not happen for the reason of
Speaker 1: its potential use as a campaign ploy. That is something
Speaker 1: to keep in mind. The prosecutor did outright say, look,
Speaker 1: President Trump has a massive base, he has a lot
Speaker 1: of influence. Can there be some sort of court order
Speaker 1: for President Trump to not use social media when it
Speaker 1: comes to the developments of this particular case. Now, the
Speaker 1: judge on the other hand, saying, no, we're not going
Speaker 1: to put that court order, but we are going to
Speaker 1: discourage that. Whether that or not that changes at that
Speaker 1: next hearing December fourth, is going to be the real
Speaker 1: story there. But for now, all spare and game when
Speaker 1: it comes to social media. All right, bloom Best critic
Speaker 1: Good said, thank you, Let's stick with it more on
Speaker 1: Trump and True Social and bringing Galen Stocking, a senior
Speaker 1: computational social scientists for the Pew Research Center. Your publisher
Speaker 1: report in November about the numbers behind true Social It's
Speaker 1: use at that time, what has your read been on
Speaker 1: how the arraignment of former President Trump has driven traffic
Speaker 1: to those more conservative social platforms. Well, we don't have
Speaker 1: any numbers on that have been updated since last year
Speaker 1: when we published this data, But what we have seen
Speaker 1: reported elsewhere Inland New York Times is that there has
Speaker 1: been increased traffic to Choose Social since the news of
Speaker 1: the indictment came out the impact of these more right
Speaker 1: leaning social media offerings that we saw all at once
Speaker 1: sort of come to an already crowded space. Your report
Speaker 1: in October not only high delighted truth Social, but you
Speaker 1: went into bitchhoot, gab getter, parlor, rumble telegram. How prevalent
Speaker 1: it is the use of was the use back in
Speaker 1: that report of October twenty twenty two, and are they
Speaker 1: impactful in terms of where people get their news. So
Speaker 1: six percent use any of the seven social media sites
Speaker 1: that we were looking at as of May twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: including truth Social Truth Social was used by two percent
Speaker 1: of US adults, and this was after just three months
Speaker 1: of it actually being released to the public, so it
Speaker 1: was released the public in February of twenty and twentyo.
Speaker 1: We conducted this survey in May of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: and what we found was that people actually believe that
Speaker 1: they are being in four when they use these sites.
Speaker 1: Fifty six percent of users of any of these sites
Speaker 1: say that staying informed is a major reason use them.
Speaker 1: Most of what their news, the news that they're getting
Speaker 1: there is government politics news, according to these users, and
Speaker 1: about half of them are saying that they are seeing
Speaker 1: news there that they wouldn't seem somewhere else. So these
Speaker 1: are becoming crucial parts of the media diet for many Americans.
Speaker 1: When you say many, though, put it into context versus
Speaker 1: Facebook versus Twitter. Sure, we found two percent used to
Speaker 1: social as a source for news. That is, of course
Speaker 1: much much lower than many other platforms. Thirty one percent
Speaker 1: as of summer of two thousand and two used Facebook
Speaker 1: for news, twenty five percent used YouTube, and then Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 1: and TikTok. We're all in the teams. And what's interesting,
Speaker 1: ed is how important some of these mainstays, the facebooks,
Speaker 1: the twitters were for President Trump and his previous election campaigns. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, Galen, Caroline and I have been
Speaker 1: tracking the reinstatement of form President Trump to platforms like
Speaker 1: Twitter and Meta. In that arrayment proceedings, the judge cited
Speaker 1: irresponsible social media posts. What is the concern, to your
Speaker 1: mind from the judge about those posts? Well, I can't
Speaker 1: speak to anything any concerns of the judge in particular
Speaker 1: might have had. But what I can point you two
Speaker 1: is how much he's actually using these other platforms just
Speaker 1: since he's been reinstated. He was reinstated on Twitter, I
Speaker 1: think a few months ago now he has not tweeted
Speaker 1: since then. Reinstated on YouTube a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: he has posted one video Facebook. He in his campaign
Speaker 1: is using that platform. In fact, last night, when he
Speaker 1: gave his speech at Mara Lago, links to that speech
Speaker 1: were posted on true social and on Facebook and on rumbled,
Speaker 1: but not to any of those other two platforms. We
Speaker 1: don't know what he will do in the future, but
Speaker 1: it is clear that he has been using truth Social
Speaker 1: quite frequently to express his views. I guess that you know.
Speaker 1: The point Carolina and pointing out was that social media
Speaker 1: was the modus operandi by which Trump, not the only one,
Speaker 1: but by which Trump communicated with his face. Right, He's
Speaker 1: not on Twitter or Facebook, but do you see the
Speaker 1: messaging that he's putting on true Social permeate those platforms.
Speaker 1: So when we looked in in May of twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two add these platforms, one of the things that we
Speaker 1: looked at was what is happening outside of just Donald
Speaker 1: Trump on tchoo social. We wanted to see what other
Speaker 1: kinds of accounts were saying and what they were doing,
Speaker 1: and how they were presenting himself. So we looked at
Speaker 1: two hundred of the most followed accounts on True Social
Speaker 1: in June of twenty twenty two, and one things we
Speaker 1: looked at was their profile photos, their banners, their whole
Speaker 1: profile page, how are they presenting themselves? And we found
Speaker 1: that about half of them were outright saying that they
Speaker 1: were conservative or Republican or pro Trump. So they're projecting
Speaker 1: this air of right leaning attitude on the platform itself.
Speaker 1: Others had projecting a religious identity, a message of patriotism.
Speaker 1: And when we connected that back to the survey, we
Speaker 1: found that people tended to say that they had found
Speaker 1: a sense of community on the site that they were using.
Speaker 1: Looking more broadly at all these sites, to the point
Speaker 1: that sixty five percent of users of any of these
Speaker 1: sites said that they had found a community of people
Speaker 1: who shared their views on those platforms. Because True Social
Speaker 1: says it's nonpartisan, and that of course it's all about
Speaker 1: free speech. Is it what it isn't doing that? Is
Speaker 1: it non partisan? Is it allowing free speech? So it's
Speaker 1: difficult to do a full summary of everything that True
Speaker 1: Social does or doesn't do it do as you, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned say that it is a non partisan site.
Speaker 1: There have been report of True Social banning users or
Speaker 1: banning posts that have partisan messages that are do people
Speaker 1: disagree with, But it's difficult to tell the extent to
Speaker 1: which this is happening overall. Galen, we thank you bringing
Speaker 1: us the research. Galen Stocking of the Pew rec Center.
Speaker 1: Sticking with Social media. According to estimates by similar Web,
Speaker 1: which analyzes Internet traffic, Twitter is struggling to sell users
Speaker 1: on its new subscription product, Twitter Blue. Only one hundred
Speaker 1: and sixteen thousand people signed up for the service of
Speaker 1: two point six million people who actually visited Twitter blue
Speaker 1: sales page on the web in March. Now more than
Speaker 1: five hundred million people use Twitter on a monthly basis,
Speaker 1: Musk said, and Twitter's advertising revenue has declined by half
Speaker 1: between October and March. He tweeted that last month. Now,
Speaker 1: Taiwan's president is in Los Angeles today meeting with a
Speaker 1: bipartisan group of US lawmakers led by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 1: Now it's the first time a Taiwanese leader we'll meet
Speaker 1: with a House speaker in the US since the US
Speaker 1: recognized diplomatic relations with China more than four decades ago.
Speaker 1: China said it would closely monitor the situation. Tomorrow in
Speaker 1: San Francisco, the group will have lunch with executives from Google, Microsoft, Palanteer,
Speaker 1: even Apple CEO Tim Cook. This, of course, is as
Speaker 1: trade tensions continue to ramp up between developed nations and China.
Speaker 1: Japan's just decided to join the US and Netherlands in
Speaker 1: restricting exports of chipmaking gear to China. Will this give
Speaker 1: the allies a powerful leg up and the escalating tech
Speaker 1: war We're kind of discussed all orbiting bogs Ian King
Speaker 1: and this tip for tap keeps continuing. But how integral
Speaker 1: are some of the players in Japan and I can,
Speaker 1: for example, to China. Yeah, now, they're very important parts
Speaker 1: of the food chain. Tokyo or Electron is obviously the standout.
Speaker 1: It's a company that's worldly similar to Applied Materials here
Speaker 1: in the US, very important machinery that you absolutely have
Speaker 1: to have if you want to make a leading edge
Speaker 1: production lines for semi conductors. But Japan also is home
Speaker 1: to a number of other companies which also do niche
Speaker 1: but very important things materials, testing, that kind of thing
Speaker 1: as well. So this is definitely a step forward in
Speaker 1: what the Biden administration has been hoping to achieve. How
Speaker 1: far a step and how big a step that's kind
Speaker 1: of open to interpretation. The story gives a sense of
Speaker 1: how global the supply chamber semiconductors is, but we're talking
Speaker 1: about specific technology, which is hardware that manufactures the chips,
Speaker 1: not the chips themselves. I mean Yes, it is diverse.
Speaker 1: Yes it is all over the world. But there are
Speaker 1: basically five or six COMPANIESSNL in the Netherlands, three companies here,
Speaker 1: including Applied Materials, and a couple in Japan. And you
Speaker 1: need their machines, you need access to their technology. If
Speaker 1: you don't have that, you're done. You can't be a
Speaker 1: modern semi conductor producer. How does China respond therefore? Do
Speaker 1: they have companies of their own that are able to
Speaker 1: develop technology at a similar level? Short term? Absolutely not,
Speaker 1: not even close long term. The argument from those who
Speaker 1: oppose this kind of rule is, look, we're going to
Speaker 1: push them further towards accelerating their own efforts to cut
Speaker 1: us out. Our ability to influence them on a friendly
Speaker 1: basis is going to go away. In we've actually seen
Speaker 1: an impact on US chipmakers today as well. We've seen
Speaker 1: the socks and next down we've seen some impacts on
Speaker 1: a video for example. Is this something that we're going
Speaker 1: to see really curtailing the business models, the ongoing revenue
Speaker 1: streams for these US companies. I, it's already happened. You're
Speaker 1: absolutely right. This is an ongoing sort of concern and
Speaker 1: ongoing cloud and describe it how you want, but this
Speaker 1: is something that people have to be conscious of, this
Speaker 1: idea of decoupling. China is the biggest market for semi conductors.
Speaker 1: It was on its way to being the biggest market
Speaker 1: for semi conductor capital equipment. If you are a shareholder
Speaker 1: of these companies, whether they're European, whether they're North America,
Speaker 1: you want your company to do business there. If they can't,
Speaker 1: then that's a problem. And I know you've sort of
Speaker 1: touched on it within a moment ago, but it sets
Speaker 1: China back How far? How long can we make some
Speaker 1: sort of view on whether this ha indeed, as we
Speaker 1: set this whole conversation up, given the US and its
Speaker 1: allies a leg up. Yeah, I mean that's that's a
Speaker 1: very difficult question to answer. I think most people would say, look,
Speaker 1: you cut them off from our technology, from the West technology,
Speaker 1: and we're talking years before they can even get to parity.
Speaker 1: Maybe never. But the flip side of that is, though,
Speaker 1: is that you know, chip companies here are saying, actually,
Speaker 1: if you look at the fine print, what the Japanese
Speaker 1: are doing and what the Dutch are doing is nowhere
Speaker 1: near as severe as what we're doing. So unless we
Speaker 1: have this consensus, this similar level of action. Actually we're
Speaker 1: not really doing what we're supposed to be doing, so
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a debate there as to how
Speaker 1: effective these rules are going to be. All right, thanks
Speaker 1: to Bloombergsy and King on the chip beat. Now coming up,
Speaker 1: Apple actually trying to reduce its dependence on China for
Speaker 1: its iPhone manufacturing. More on that next. Take a look
Speaker 1: at Apple shares really quickly and how we're trading. A
Speaker 1: lot of analysis of how Apple will fare politically US China,
Speaker 1: but also supply chain Reja. We're down almost two percent
Speaker 1: though in the session, in this risk off mode. This
Speaker 1: is bloomberg time. Now for talking text, starting with Amazon
Speaker 1: and Microsoft, whose cloud services could face a full blown
Speaker 1: ANTITUSK probe over in the UK as after the country's
Speaker 1: Digital Regulator ofcom says it found evidence that the firms
Speaker 1: and maybe abusing their market power, making it basically hard
Speaker 1: for people to switch or use multiple cloud suppliers off cooms.
Speaker 1: It's particularly concerned about the US tech firms because of
Speaker 1: their dominant position. Here's another big tech company under scrutiny. Meta.
Speaker 1: That's after Italy's Competition authority opened a probe against its
Speaker 1: over allegations it may have exploited its bargaining power more
Speaker 1: negotiating with the country's main artists rights organization. The watchdog
Speaker 1: also says look Meta may have withheld information needed to
Speaker 1: carry out negotiations. And over to Asia, where Fox Con,
Speaker 1: the world's largest maker of Apple devices, increased revenue year
Speaker 1: on year and only by four percent last quarter, underscoring
Speaker 1: houphes or a recession is really crimping demand for iPhones
Speaker 1: and other consumer electronics, and the reported revenue of forty
Speaker 1: eight billion dollars while it's down steeply even from the
Speaker 1: previous three months when a COVID outbreak prompted protests and
Speaker 1: its main facility in Central China disrupting iPhone production basically
Speaker 1: for weeks end. And we're going to dig in more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So'scot and Apple. Are those two tech names re examining
Speaker 1: their electronic supply chain which is centered on China. Let's
Speaker 1: start deeper into all things Apple and how it's laying
Speaker 1: the foundation to make iPhones elsewhere, which was the topic
Speaker 1: of a Business Week piece today Bloomberg Business Weeks Josh E.
Speaker 1: Brustein here with more. There was a very public visit
Speaker 1: by Tim Cook to China recently. What sources is telling
Speaker 1: us josh is that at the same time, executives are
Speaker 1: trying to move away from China. What's happening. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You see Cook and Apple doing a sort of delicate
Speaker 1: dance here where they're trying to reassure China, a very
Speaker 1: important partner, that everything is okay, while also trying to
Speaker 1: make sure that they are less reliant on China. We
Speaker 1: saw the big disruptions late last year at the Fox
Speaker 1: kN plant and iPhone City, and they're building up capacity
Speaker 1: in other countries so that they are less vulnerable to
Speaker 1: geographic disruptions in the future. Joshua, Can you tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about where, which countries where does the
Speaker 1: supply chain shift? Yeah? Absolutely so for iPhones, which is
Speaker 1: the majority of their production that is shifting primarily to India.
Speaker 1: This has been happening for about five years, but it's
Speaker 1: really ramped up over the last year or so, and
Speaker 1: the next iPhone generation could be the first time we
Speaker 1: see the first batch of iPhones leaving both from China
Speaker 1: and India at the same time. For mac production, that's
Speaker 1: happening in Southeast Asia as well, Malaysia and also Vietnam,
Speaker 1: a little bit in Ireland, but less complex kind of
Speaker 1: put together. Yeah, exactly for some mac products that will
Speaker 1: happen in Ireland, but primarily the focus there is on
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. Josh, I guess the question goes to which
Speaker 1: products and what rationale. Right when the second wave of
Speaker 1: COVID hit mainland China, it became apparent that the higher
Speaker 1: end pro models, the production of them, was concentrated in
Speaker 1: Jung Joe. A lot of our reporting seems to suggest
Speaker 1: that this is political as well, in terms of what's
Speaker 1: going on between the US and China. Which is it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's two things going on
Speaker 1: simultaneously right now. You do have just the inherent vulnerability
Speaker 1: of concentrating such an important production pacity in one geographic area.
Speaker 1: You know, if there's a disruption due to COVID and
Speaker 1: the only place shoemake these phones there's in one area
Speaker 1: and they're suffering from COVID, then you really run into
Speaker 1: a problem. But also it's really impossible to ignore the
Speaker 1: intention between the United States and China and all sorts
Speaker 1: of areas. And I think Apple is looking to avoid
Speaker 1: some of that by having a fallback plan if something
Speaker 1: does happen. It's a great weed. Go get your business week,
Speaker 1: Joshua bursting, Well, thank you so much for it. This
Speaker 1: is a incredibly disruptive new technology. All of the leading
Speaker 1: AI labs know they're creating something dangerous, but none of
Speaker 1: them really want to stop it. Welcome back to new technology.
Speaker 1: I'm Canaine hiding and I'm d Lovelow in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: The chat GPT revolution carrow could open the door to
Speaker 1: a four day week by providing a major productivity boost
Speaker 1: for many jobs. That's according to Nobel Prize winning labor
Speaker 1: economists Christopher Pissarides, who says the labor market can adapt
Speaker 1: quickly enough to AI backchatbots tampering down concerns that rapid
Speaker 1: advances in tech could bring mass job layoffs. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this one, but President Biden
Speaker 1: tweeting about AI overnight. I was wondering, Carol, when the
Speaker 1: White House would weigh in on this, as often is
Speaker 1: the case, and here comes the split. We have the
Speaker 1: pro side, in fact, the Nobel Prize winning economists saying, look,
Speaker 1: this could be really additive to our productivity. Yes, there
Speaker 1: are sub concerns and President Biden really highlighting them there,
Speaker 1: but we continue to daily discuss how much are we
Speaker 1: really thinking about the ethics involved, how much are we
Speaker 1: thinking about the negative consequences as well as the positive consequences?
Speaker 1: And Professor parisides thoughts in line with what Goldman said
Speaker 1: last month, three hundred million global jobs at risk, but
Speaker 1: plus seven percent annual contribution to global GDP potentially from
Speaker 1: generative AI. So you know there's concern, but there's hope.
Speaker 1: So let's bring in Richard Socher for more. He's the
Speaker 1: CEO and founder of the AI search engine you dot com.
Speaker 1: He also served as the Chief Scientists a VP at Salesforce,
Speaker 1: and was the CEO and CTO of AI startup meta
Speaker 1: Mind before that. You were not one of the signatories
Speaker 1: to the pause petition last week, but you operate a
Speaker 1: generative AI search engine. Are you one of those that
Speaker 1: thinks a pause is helpful or just adds to the noise?
Speaker 1: I don't think a pause is feasible. It's hard to
Speaker 1: tell people like, don't think about this, don't work on
Speaker 1: this abstract general purpose technology. I do think it is
Speaker 1: important for lawmakers to think about how to deal with
Speaker 1: a changing job landscape. I do think it'll make sense
Speaker 1: for us to regulate this technology as it gets applied
Speaker 1: in specific areas such as military, healthcare, transportation, and so on.
Speaker 1: Regulation makes sense there, But it's kind of like trying
Speaker 1: to regulate the chip sets and say this chip is
Speaker 1: not allowed to make this kind of computation or compute dysfunction.
Speaker 1: It's just very hard to do that. Versus when you
Speaker 1: apply chips and put them into a weapon, there is
Speaker 1: actual regulation of how that weapon should be used. And
Speaker 1: I'm not using weapons because I think this is weapons
Speaker 1: great technology. I think I'm just using that in that
Speaker 1: it's a general purpose technology. It's more like a hammer
Speaker 1: or the Internet, and the Internet you can share illegal
Speaker 1: and horror content, but we don't make the entire Internet
Speaker 1: illegal and say hey, how about we slow down the
Speaker 1: Internet tide. Instead, we say no, if you'd share this
Speaker 1: particular kind of content like child pornography or like murder
Speaker 1: videos and things like that, like we make that illegal.
Speaker 1: And that makes a lot of sense. Which we're just
Speaker 1: looking at that exact tweet basically that you put out
Speaker 1: there saying regulated regular related in a thoughtful manner. Here,
Speaker 1: it's interesting you seem to be aligning in some ways
Speaker 1: with why I think of what's been being put out
Speaker 1: by other professors. I'm thinking particularly of many Bender the
Speaker 1: stochastic parrots and report where she's saying, sometimes when you're
Speaker 1: putting too much thought around the intelligence of artificial intelligence,
Speaker 1: you're almost adding to the hype. Here. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a whole industry now what I
Speaker 1: call them anti hype hypers and by then saying, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: this is so omnipotent, so dangerous, we have to regulate it. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it probably makes some people think, wow, well, then I
Speaker 1: really got to have like countries, certain organizations where values
Speaker 1: aren't really important to them. At the same time, I
Speaker 1: think we're antropomorphizing a lot the technology, thinking it has
Speaker 1: its own thoughts and things like that. It isn't terdably powerful.
Speaker 1: The impact on jobs is real, but it doesn't have
Speaker 1: a super intelligence that will have a mind of its own.
Speaker 1: It really just it's the next word, because that's what
Speaker 1: you're asking it to do. Will it has now capability
Speaker 1: currently to say, Oh, I just don't want to predict
Speaker 1: next words anymore. I want to just have my own
Speaker 1: thoughts and do my own thing. It's interesting. Of course,
Speaker 1: there's also this narrative EDD that some that were signing
Speaker 1: the petition for a pause perhaps were just a bit
Speaker 1: behind the curve and the application of their own AI technology.
Speaker 1: But and you've been playing with you dot Com in particular. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I use chat GBT, I use barred by Google, Richard,
Speaker 1: I have been using you dot Com very similar products.
Speaker 1: And the question I put to you, because you actually
Speaker 1: seem to be taking a somewhat objective view on this,
Speaker 1: is is whether this is just sour greats from an
Speaker 1: industry trying to catch up with a clear leader in
Speaker 1: open AI. I do think so. I do think some
Speaker 1: folks trying to slow it down while we say, oh,
Speaker 1: it'll be nice if recap sometime to catch up to
Speaker 1: this whole situation. We were actually at dot Com the
Speaker 1: first to instead of trying to regulate the technology or
Speaker 1: says or saying this is impossible to use for a
Speaker 1: search engine, just trying to make it better. For instance,
Speaker 1: they hallucinated a lot, and so now we added the
Speaker 1: capability of these lms to have citatients and to stick
Speaker 1: closer to the sources that they find online. We launched
Speaker 1: it in December last year, and Open Eye and others
Speaker 1: like Being have copied that capability now and I think
Speaker 1: it makes the whole larger language model space better and
Speaker 1: more useful for search engine. Yes, Caroline JP Morgan out
Speaker 1: with that note this morning, right, calling Microsoft a clear
Speaker 1: early leader in the generative AI space. It's partnership with
Speaker 1: open Ai. Big names moved early here, didn't they. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Richard, you can speak to this. You've worked in
Speaker 1: big names, you worked at Salesforce, you now got your
Speaker 1: own startup. Is it right? It's Open Aye sucking all
Speaker 1: the oxygen out of the room when it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: How much do we need to work to think of
Speaker 1: smaller players? And now are the bigger players really marching here? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. You know Microsoft Pad has its
Speaker 1: monopoly days and use that monopoly power a lot in
Speaker 1: the past, and they're certainly applying that playbook now to
Speaker 1: you know, an almost subsidiary of Microsoft. You know it's
Speaker 1: they own fifty percent of Opening Eye, and it is
Speaker 1: it can be tough. You know, we launched certain capabilities
Speaker 1: like LMS with citations, then Microsoft later on copied that feature.
Speaker 1: They're now trying to end all the little competition and
Speaker 1: search engines that they used to want to support in
Speaker 1: their struggle against Google. Now they say, oh, it seems
Speaker 1: like we would be able to lose ourselves, So they
Speaker 1: increase the prices by ten or even fifty x, making
Speaker 1: it not feasible anymore to partner with them. So there's
Speaker 1: definitely that attempt for Microsoft to try to get back
Speaker 1: to this monopoly power. Interesting, and of course I'm sure
Speaker 1: Microsoft will go to for commonness or whether they feel
Speaker 1: that they're in an anti competitive competitive manner. But Richard,
Speaker 1: what do you do at you dot com to continue
Speaker 1: to be relevant in the space, to continue to grow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been very much ahead of everyone when we launched
Speaker 1: this larger language model chat search engine in December last year.
Speaker 1: The field moves so quickly. It didn't last very long.
Speaker 1: When we became the first to have multimodal outputs in
Speaker 1: these chat models. So if the aster chat model, oh,
Speaker 1: what's the stock price of salesforce? Instead of making up
Speaker 1: a bunch of numbers, which what most is what most
Speaker 1: of these models will do, we just show you a
Speaker 1: stock taker. So the outputs kind of different modalities can
Speaker 1: be a table, can be a craph, can be an image,
Speaker 1: can be an interactive element. So we essentially introduced the
Speaker 1: idea of an app store to a search engine, and
Speaker 1: that allows the chat model to be a lot more
Speaker 1: powerful in an actual replacement to Google. So we're trying
Speaker 1: to merge the best ideas of a traditional search engine
Speaker 1: with the chat bat like capabilities of summarize this whole
Speaker 1: website for me, write me an entire HTML website or
Speaker 1: longer piece of code, and all of these things, and
Speaker 1: we'll continue to innovate than some more exciting things are
Speaker 1: on the pipeline. Well, continue to innovate. Richard, the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Opinion Editorial Board have an opinion piece out today saying
Speaker 1: that an AI pause would be a disaster for innovation.
Speaker 1: You seem to agree with that argument. My question is
Speaker 1: what are you doing to innovate? How busy are you
Speaker 1: going out there trying to get new checks from your
Speaker 1: backers to continue the research, to continue the development. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think it's just impossible to regulate. It's like saying, hey,
Speaker 1: these models need the Internet, so let's make Internet a
Speaker 1: little bit slower. Or these models need chip sets, how
Speaker 1: about we makeing chips a little bit slower so that
Speaker 1: we slow this all down because some of these chips
Speaker 1: would be used to do bad things. It's just not
Speaker 1: even feasible. Not every country would participate, and it's just
Speaker 1: it doesn't even make sense because the technology can be
Speaker 1: used for so many good things. We've trained the same
Speaker 1: technology that you see for a textual chat in natural
Speaker 1: language English. We use that technology back in my salesforce
Speaker 1: stays to train on protein generation so we can find
Speaker 1: for cancer, we can find new cures for viruses and
Speaker 1: things like that. This technology is so general purpose, it
Speaker 1: can do a lot of amazing things, and to say
Speaker 1: let's slow it down at the very basic player just
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense when you apply it to medicine and
Speaker 1: other areas yating that it needs to do this, Richard,
Speaker 1: Does U dot com survive in a world where Google's
Speaker 1: barred and Microsoft three bang are offering exactly the same thing?
Speaker 1: Does the pucky plucky player survive? We think so. There
Speaker 1: have been multiple smaller search engines that are worth billion
Speaker 1: dollars already like that dock Go, and people still care
Speaker 1: about privacy. And to be honest, Google's barred and Maxwell's
Speaker 1: being have not yet caught up with everything that we
Speaker 1: do and I think we have a shot up. Great
Speaker 1: to have some time with you, great conversation, Richard Socio.
Speaker 1: We thank you dot Com CEO. We while coming up,
Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about funding as Ed
Speaker 1: was just getting to it. Why Stripe, one of the
Speaker 1: world's most valuable startups, is seeing a payment's volume slowdown.
Speaker 1: More on that and more in our VC roundup. That's next. First,
Speaker 1: let's get back to some of the banking concerns that
Speaker 1: are swirling today and shine a light on all of
Speaker 1: Warden Tech player First Republic because another two and a
Speaker 1: half percent as we once again worry about some of
Speaker 1: the deposits at these smaller lenders from New York and
Speaker 1: San Francisco, the Suremberg. But when you look at how
Speaker 1: the economy is evolving, how the technology of the economy
Speaker 1: is evolving, or we're still seeing increasing demand for more
Speaker 1: data centers because of more Internet traffic, because of more
Speaker 1: sensors on car, because of generative AI. Right, so company
Speaker 1: is like in video, a more diverse folk company like
Speaker 1: a broad camp is a good position for a client
Speaker 1: all right, Time for the VC roundup. Stripe says that
Speaker 1: growth in payments volumes slowed last year, even as it
Speaker 1: helped more large businesses and clients handle payments over the internet.
Speaker 1: The payments company says volume climb twenty six twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: but that's compared with sixty percent growth in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: when Stripe and many of its rivals saw rapid growth
Speaker 1: as consumers did more shopping online during the pandemic. Over
Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia's to You, a startup that provides a
Speaker 1: range of services from ridehailing to food delivery. It's hired
Speaker 1: Moelis and Co. To help raise funds to fuel the
Speaker 1: super app's growth. Talks for the financing round at an
Speaker 1: early stage, and the target amount is still being firmed up.
Speaker 1: According to say Caroline. Let's talk about another key payments startup,
Speaker 1: Chipper Cash, the African cross border payments platform. It's not
Speaker 1: been immune from the banking crisis. In fact, the massive
Speaker 1: layoffs hitting Silicon Valley this year. The company's co founder
Speaker 1: and CEO spoke with Newberg about where they go from here.
Speaker 1: We're not immune to the idea that even we've had
Speaker 1: to become a bit more capital efficient. I mentioned Alia,
Speaker 1: we had to take my belts in a couple of areas,
Speaker 1: because I think even as a business, we've also had
Speaker 1: to rethink and of asked my entire teams and everyone
Speaker 1: in the company to think about every single expense in
Speaker 1: the business, think about it again and deeply do we
Speaker 1: need to spend money in that area? Where can we
Speaker 1: be more efficient? Do you see more cost cutting coming
Speaker 1: in the near future for Chipper, because I know you,
Speaker 1: like many other tech companies, you've had to lay off
Speaker 1: a number of a lot of your workforce. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you see that continuing on for more months? Want
Speaker 1: unforesee additional layoffs with Chipper specifically, And to give some
Speaker 1: more context there, you know, we came out of a
Speaker 1: period where we hired over two hundred and fifty people
Speaker 1: in a space of you know, eighteen months, and we
Speaker 1: grew to almost five hundred people globally, and you know,
Speaker 1: including acquiring another company, and that rate of growth just
Speaker 1: by function of how fast it's happening. Building some inefficiencies
Speaker 1: and so for us, part of making sure that we're
Speaker 1: being as officient as possible as meant revisiting every single
Speaker 1: aspect of the organization and seeing where can we be
Speaker 1: as efficient as possible, Chipper Cash, co founder and CEO,
Speaker 1: her Mam Sarah and Jogi. There some of the most
Speaker 1: iconic and beloved characters in the gaming universe are coming
Speaker 1: to a big screen near you. But if you live
Speaker 1: in Japan, you're gonna have to wait. The Super Mario
Speaker 1: film premiering internationally today won't feature in Japanese theaters for
Speaker 1: another three weeks or so. So why do fans in
Speaker 1: the birthplace of Super Mario and the home base of
Speaker 1: its creating Nintendo have to wait? The straightforward answer is
Speaker 1: that Japan will be up, will be the toughest audience
Speaker 1: to please. Yes, the rest of the world has die
Speaker 1: hard fans, but no country Caroline has the same concentration
Speaker 1: of Morrow followers than Japan does. Oh gotta know your audience,
Speaker 1: gray one. Meanwhile, let's talk about EVS a little bit.
Speaker 1: Kia today is unveiling It's all electric EV nine SUV.
Speaker 1: It's a flaction with the company's plan S strategy, basically
Speaker 1: to spearhead it's transition to EVS and too millibility solutions
Speaker 1: by twenty twenty five. Let's talk about all of it.
Speaker 1: Let's c centis Kia executive vice president and Coo and Steve.
Speaker 1: The EV nine, the suv, who is it wanting to
Speaker 1: compete with? Right now? It isn't going to compete with
Speaker 1: anyone because it has a clear space at the tap
Speaker 1: of the suv market. So in the coming year, some
Speaker 1: other vehicles such a Chevy Blazer might be a competitor.
Speaker 1: But this is a full size three rowd suv, a
Speaker 1: six or seven passenger with a targeted three hundred mile range,
Speaker 1: and there is anything like that on the market right now. See,
Speaker 1: the biggest question for you, guys, I suppose is pricing.
Speaker 1: You know, lots of models coming online here in North America.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their eyes set on Tesla, So how do
Speaker 1: you price that upcoming EV to make it competitive? Good questions. Well,
Speaker 1: Kia has added a lot of new vehicles to the
Speaker 1: line in the past few years, and tell your eye
Speaker 1: as single handedly changed the brand and we've been attracting
Speaker 1: newer customers, younger, better educated, much wealthier that are purchasing
Speaker 1: a car well into the sixty dollar range, and that's
Speaker 1: paved the way for EV line. So I would say, well,
Speaker 1: we're not ready to pricing. It will be priced beginning
Speaker 1: with the high end of telling the right and then
Speaker 1: up the premier packages and features. So, Steve, we've got
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot about the IRA, then
Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act. Do you design the vehicle and
Speaker 1: priced as a vehicle so that it is caught within
Speaker 1: the parameters of that legislation. No, you have to design
Speaker 1: for the market and you don't make long long term
Speaker 1: decisions based on a short term taxation policies. And the
Speaker 1: IRA is a disruptive type of legislation where auto companies
Speaker 1: who are moving along based on just insider rules and
Speaker 1: the government changed them all of a sudden. As an example,
Speaker 1: we had already announced our hundred order of metaplans in
Speaker 1: Georgia who are building a battery factor the end of
Speaker 1: vehicle assymbol factor as well, and that was before IRA
Speaker 1: was announced. So we're moving for the plans for electrification
Speaker 1: based on what the market demands. Let's talk about the
Speaker 1: market and in fair in fact, let's talk about competition
Speaker 1: a little bit more. Steve, we actually went to our
Speaker 1: audience and ask them about Tesla in particular and perhaps
Speaker 1: whether in this current environment it's losing market share or
Speaker 1: whether it's an impact of slowing economy that perhaps is
Speaker 1: curtailing the demand for Tesla's at the moment or in fact,
Speaker 1: thirty nine percent in the audience thought that demand for
Speaker 1: Tesla's evs are still full on. Do you think they
Speaker 1: are or do you think that your gaming market share
Speaker 1: from the likes of Tesla. Yeah, well, there's two things
Speaker 1: that are happening. You have everyone else getting in the
Speaker 1: game right now, So the number of choices for electric
Speaker 1: vehicles is expanding, the acceptance of electric vehicles for variety
Speaker 1: is expanding. So you may be kind of questing they're
Speaker 1: difficult to concourse from, but we're attracting customers from all
Speaker 1: brands now, and these are people that are considering their
Speaker 1: first EAVY or the first ev sub in the case
Speaker 1: of six or so. The market's growing, so not everyone's
Speaker 1: coming to Teslas. Steve, what's the secret source for Kia?
Speaker 1: What is it you think you have an advantage in
Speaker 1: when you're going up not just against Tesla but the
Speaker 1: usoms who are bringing all these models online. What are
Speaker 1: you going to do to win? Well, we're a bit
Speaker 1: of a disruptive brand. Kia is thirty years old and
Speaker 1: we started out with small internal combustion cars who are
Speaker 1: relatively newer to larger su needs until your hearts maybe
Speaker 1: only four years on the market, So perhaps our secret
Speaker 1: sauces are innovative technology, are willingness to take risks, and
Speaker 1: also our customer focus and development products that are fought
Speaker 1: on for customers. Right, Steve Center of Kia Motives, thank
Speaker 1: you for your time. That Caroline, there was a time
Speaker 1: where Tesla was the only game in town. But you're not.
Speaker 1: Are learning this week that's not true anymore. Twenty thousand
Speaker 1: orders in the first quarter going to the acts of GM,
Speaker 1: ten thousand going to Forward Kia. I mean everywhere you look,
Speaker 1: there's hybrids, there's Toyota. We haven't discussed yet. A lot
Speaker 1: more to come in the numbers. Difficult economic outlook for
Speaker 1: the rest of this year. Well that does it for
Speaker 1: this edition of Bloomberg Technology, though, character and you do
Speaker 1: not want to forget to check out our podcast. You
Speaker 1: can find it on the terminal. You can go online
Speaker 1: on apcoholes, what if I on iHeart Whether you like
Speaker 1: to consume your audio from New York from San Francisco.
Speaker 1: Wish you wonderful rest of the day. This is a
Speaker 1: roombag