WEBVTT - Truth Social and US and China Tech Tensions 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.800 From the Heart of Where Innovations, Money and Power Collie 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:09.760 in Silicon Valley, NBR. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:26.840 Hyde and Ed Ludlow. I'm Caroline Hyder Bloomberg's World Headquarters 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.520 in New York, and I'med Ludlow in San Francisco. This 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.159 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up, we'll look at the implications 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.559 of Trump's indictment on his ability to communicate to his 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.159 own followers through the truth social app been discussed with 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.840 Galen Stocking of the Pew Research Center. Plus, we'll discuss 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.199 the escalating technology war between the US and China as 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.920 Japan joins the United States and Netherlands in restricting exports 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.880 of chipmaking gear to China. And we'll get a read 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.480 on the red hot race for ev dominance with Kia 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:00.000 Motors COO Steve Center. All that and so much more 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.120 coming up, but we return to those markets, will return 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.960 to some of that news around Japan joining the US 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.560 the Netherlands in terms of impacting and restricting the exports 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.839 of chip industry over to China, and it's impacting the socks. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.640 I'm looking that down by two point two percent at 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.240 the moment. NASDAC off of its highs that we've been 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.759 seeing off for one and a quarter percent. Today. We're 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.800 basically seeing risk aversion in the market today. We're worried 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.800 about banks, We're worried about economic data pointing towards the 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.880 US recession. We're therefore seeing a flight to safety. US 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.240 government bonds doing well. We're seeing the yields down eleven 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.160 basis points on the two year. Let's move it on 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.240 because actually what's managed to withstand some of the turbulence 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.040 and stock market has been Bitcoin. It is off just 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.040 slightly today, only by up a quarter of a percent, 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.680 though over the last three trading days we're basically stopping 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.000 out at twenty eight thousand DS. Some great reporting coming 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:46.480 on the Bloomberg all about that, but I know you're 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.880 going to dig into some of the microdata. Yeah, look, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.520 we kind of really risk off. There's a lot of 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.760 positive headlines on the Bloomberg, but not supporting individual stocks. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.400 Microsoft and Palentteer, for example, both firmly lower, but they've 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.960 expanded their cloud partnership and that was actually boost the 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.560 Palanteer in particular Premrket. It has not held onto those games, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.160 C three, AI and name we increasingly Track had its 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.240 worst session ever twenty four hours ago, on Track for 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.800 its worst two day drop ever as well. Not a 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.520 lot of support in that AI space, And I just 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.480 put z Scaler there because as part of that risk 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.680 off mode, you look at some of the worst performers 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.120 on the NASDAC one hundred higher, multiple software names really 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.240 getting hit. There is an emphasis right now on stocks 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.680 relating two conservative social media platforms. We've been talking about 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.960 this for a number of days. Digital World Acquisition, the 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.880 spack that's due to take true. Social Public is still 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.160 continuing to slide down number five percent, Rumble also down 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.000 six point three percent. Very short lived. Feel good around 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.560 those conservative social media names, Caroline. When the news cycle 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.040 around Trump started, we've given up those games and we're 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.000 continuing to slide, and we are going to dig into 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.720 exactly those social media names. In a moment. Let's turn 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.600 towards Donald Trump's indictment the former president, of course saying 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.400 it's all political, but District Attorney Alvin Bragg says Trump 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.000 engaged in a so called catch and kill scheme that 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:06.360 is a scheme to buy and suppress negative information to 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.960 help mister Trump's chance of winning the election. This fake 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.160 case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming twenty 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:18.200 twenty four election, and it should be dropped immediately, immediately 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.000 with us to wrap it all up, as well as 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.239 some of those techangles, a social media perspective, mimogs, Kutti 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.920 Gupta and extraordinary day. Of course, Kuti talk to us 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.600 a little bit about what indeed you're seeing after the impact. 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.520 I mean, it was historical in many ways. It was 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.680 historical in many ways, a potential first criminal conviction to 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.839 any American president in history. It's a massive deal. Isn't 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.360 going to disqualify him from president? Even if it is 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.560 a criminal conviction? The answers simply no, because there are 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.480 other cases that could potentially do that, things like treason, 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.640 things like moving some of those classified documents from Washington 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.000 see to mar Lago. But today the conviction that we 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.520 heard or is someb the arraignment that we saw yesterday. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.080 It's really interesting the way that it's really turned into 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.040 kind of banter for his campaign for twenty twenty four. 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.320 And that's going to be the crucial takeaway here. At 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.520 what point did the legal allegations actually rally his base 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.760 and social media is a really big part of that. 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:15.960 A great example was his comments when he went back 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.320 to Marlago last evening at eight fifteen pm Eastern. He 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.560 specifically called out the likes of Twitter, Meta, which is 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.560 interesting because it's only recently that he's been allowed back 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.240 on to those platforms Critty. Both the judge in the 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.799 arraignment and the district's attorney had something to say about 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.800 the influence and impact of social media and Trump's use 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.800 of it. What did they say, Yeah, it's been a 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.920 very careful kind of maneuvering and how this case is handled. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.680 A mug shot, for example, was pretty typical when you 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.800 do have an arraignment like this. This time around, though 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.320 the mug shot did not happen for the reason of 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.040 its potential use as a campaign ploy. That is something 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.600 to keep in mind. The prosecutor did outright say, look, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.920 President Trump has a massive base, he has a lot 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.080 of influence. Can there be some sort of court order 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.440 for President Trump to not use social media when it 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.000 comes to the developments of this particular case. Now, the 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.680 judge on the other hand, saying, no, we're not going 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.320 to put that court order, but we are going to 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.760 discourage that. Whether that or not that changes at that 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.640 next hearing December fourth, is going to be the real 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.680 story there. But for now, all spare and game when 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.200 it comes to social media. All right, bloom Best critic 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.159 Good said, thank you, Let's stick with it more on 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.120 Trump and True Social and bringing Galen Stocking, a senior 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.320 computational social scientists for the Pew Research Center. Your publisher 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.320 report in November about the numbers behind true Social It's 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.680 use at that time, what has your read been on 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.239 how the arraignment of former President Trump has driven traffic 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.480 to those more conservative social platforms. Well, we don't have 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.840 any numbers on that have been updated since last year 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.799 when we published this data, But what we have seen 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.920 reported elsewhere Inland New York Times is that there has 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:01.040 been increased traffic to Choose Social since the news of 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:06.599 the indictment came out the impact of these more right 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:12.200 leaning social media offerings that we saw all at once 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.560 sort of come to an already crowded space. Your report 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.599 in October not only high delighted truth Social, but you 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:23.600 went into bitchhoot, gab getter, parlor, rumble telegram. How prevalent 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.840 it is the use of was the use back in 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.920 that report of October twenty twenty two, and are they 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.400 impactful in terms of where people get their news. So 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.240 six percent use any of the seven social media sites 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.000 that we were looking at as of May twenty twenty two, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.440 including truth Social Truth Social was used by two percent 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.279 of US adults, and this was after just three months 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.280 of it actually being released to the public, so it 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.560 was released the public in February of twenty and twentyo. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.599 We conducted this survey in May of twenty twenty two, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:58.160 and what we found was that people actually believe that 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.240 they are being in four when they use these sites. 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.000 Fifty six percent of users of any of these sites 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.320 say that staying informed is a major reason use them. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:10.760 Most of what their news, the news that they're getting 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.120 there is government politics news, according to these users, and 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.600 about half of them are saying that they are seeing 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:21.840 news there that they wouldn't seem somewhere else. So these 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:27.240 are becoming crucial parts of the media diet for many Americans. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.880 When you say many, though, put it into context versus 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:36.640 Facebook versus Twitter. Sure, we found two percent used to 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.200 social as a source for news. That is, of course 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.320 much much lower than many other platforms. Thirty one percent 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.200 as of summer of two thousand and two used Facebook 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.600 for news, twenty five percent used YouTube, and then Twitter, Instagram, 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.400 and TikTok. We're all in the teams. And what's interesting, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.560 ed is how important some of these mainstays, the facebooks, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.960 the twitters were for President Trump and his previous election campaigns. Yeah, 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:06.800 that's right. I mean, Galen, Caroline and I have been 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.120 tracking the reinstatement of form President Trump to platforms like 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.440 Twitter and Meta. In that arrayment proceedings, the judge cited 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.520 irresponsible social media posts. What is the concern, to your 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.200 mind from the judge about those posts? Well, I can't 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.360 speak to anything any concerns of the judge in particular 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.960 might have had. But what I can point you two 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.200 is how much he's actually using these other platforms just 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.280 since he's been reinstated. He was reinstated on Twitter, I 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.520 think a few months ago now he has not tweeted 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.440 since then. Reinstated on YouTube a couple of weeks ago, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:45.640 he has posted one video Facebook. He in his campaign 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.720 is using that platform. In fact, last night, when he 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.360 gave his speech at Mara Lago, links to that speech 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.559 were posted on true social and on Facebook and on rumbled, 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.200 but not to any of those other two platforms. We 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.240 don't know what he will do in the future, but 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.680 it is clear that he has been using truth Social 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.280 quite frequently to express his views. I guess that you know. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.040 The point Carolina and pointing out was that social media 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.240 was the modus operandi by which Trump, not the only one, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.880 but by which Trump communicated with his face. Right, He's 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.600 not on Twitter or Facebook, but do you see the 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.520 messaging that he's putting on true Social permeate those platforms. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.800 So when we looked in in May of twenty twenty 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.680 two add these platforms, one of the things that we 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.360 looked at was what is happening outside of just Donald 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.640 Trump on tchoo social. We wanted to see what other 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.360 kinds of accounts were saying and what they were doing, 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.320 and how they were presenting himself. So we looked at 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.960 two hundred of the most followed accounts on True Social 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.120 in June of twenty twenty two, and one things we 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.720 looked at was their profile photos, their banners, their whole 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.280 profile page, how are they presenting themselves? And we found 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.920 that about half of them were outright saying that they 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.600 were conservative or Republican or pro Trump. So they're projecting 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:07.280 this air of right leaning attitude on the platform itself. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:13.080 Others had projecting a religious identity, a message of patriotism. 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.240 And when we connected that back to the survey, we 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.960 found that people tended to say that they had found 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.280 a sense of community on the site that they were using. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.320 Looking more broadly at all these sites, to the point 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:29.280 that sixty five percent of users of any of these 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.280 sites said that they had found a community of people 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.280 who shared their views on those platforms. Because True Social 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.040 says it's nonpartisan, and that of course it's all about 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.520 free speech. Is it what it isn't doing that? Is 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:47.160 it non partisan? Is it allowing free speech? So it's 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.400 difficult to do a full summary of everything that True 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.920 Social does or doesn't do it do as you, as 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:58.400 you mentioned say that it is a non partisan site. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:03.400 There have been report of True Social banning users or 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.560 banning posts that have partisan messages that are do people 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.640 disagree with, But it's difficult to tell the extent to 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:15.920 which this is happening overall. Galen, we thank you bringing 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.079 us the research. Galen Stocking of the Pew rec Center. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.040 Sticking with Social media. According to estimates by similar Web, 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.800 which analyzes Internet traffic, Twitter is struggling to sell users 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.839 on its new subscription product, Twitter Blue. Only one hundred 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.800 and sixteen thousand people signed up for the service of 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.680 two point six million people who actually visited Twitter blue 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.720 sales page on the web in March. Now more than 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.200 five hundred million people use Twitter on a monthly basis, 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.120 Musk said, and Twitter's advertising revenue has declined by half 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:57.520 between October and March. He tweeted that last month. Now, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.560 Taiwan's president is in Los Angeles today meeting with a 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.000 bipartisan group of US lawmakers led by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.120 Now it's the first time a Taiwanese leader we'll meet 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.520 with a House speaker in the US since the US 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.960 recognized diplomatic relations with China more than four decades ago. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.920 China said it would closely monitor the situation. Tomorrow in 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.840 San Francisco, the group will have lunch with executives from Google, Microsoft, Palanteer, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.559 even Apple CEO Tim Cook. This, of course, is as 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.800 trade tensions continue to ramp up between developed nations and China. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.880 Japan's just decided to join the US and Netherlands in 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.640 restricting exports of chipmaking gear to China. Will this give 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.960 the allies a powerful leg up and the escalating tech 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.200 war We're kind of discussed all orbiting bogs Ian King 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.840 and this tip for tap keeps continuing. But how integral 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:43.560 are some of the players in Japan and I can, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.679 for example, to China. Yeah, now, they're very important parts 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.440 of the food chain. Tokyo or Electron is obviously the standout. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.640 It's a company that's worldly similar to Applied Materials here 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.079 in the US, very important machinery that you absolutely have 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.400 to have if you want to make a leading edge 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.400 production lines for semi conductors. But Japan also is home 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.680 to a number of other companies which also do niche 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.160 but very important things materials, testing, that kind of thing 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.320 as well. So this is definitely a step forward in 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.680 what the Biden administration has been hoping to achieve. How 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.079 far a step and how big a step that's kind 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.679 of open to interpretation. The story gives a sense of 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.360 how global the supply chamber semiconductors is, but we're talking 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:34.480 about specific technology, which is hardware that manufactures the chips, 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.960 not the chips themselves. I mean Yes, it is diverse. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.199 Yes it is all over the world. But there are 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.480 basically five or six COMPANIESSNL in the Netherlands, three companies here, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.600 including Applied Materials, and a couple in Japan. And you 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.440 need their machines, you need access to their technology. If 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.000 you don't have that, you're done. You can't be a 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:58.080 modern semi conductor producer. How does China respond therefore? Do 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.320 they have companies of their own that are able to 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.319 develop technology at a similar level? Short term? Absolutely not, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.800 not even close long term. The argument from those who 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.679 oppose this kind of rule is, look, we're going to 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.680 push them further towards accelerating their own efforts to cut 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.200 us out. Our ability to influence them on a friendly 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.400 basis is going to go away. In we've actually seen 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.400 an impact on US chipmakers today as well. We've seen 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.160 the socks and next down we've seen some impacts on 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.200 a video for example. Is this something that we're going 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.400 to see really curtailing the business models, the ongoing revenue 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.280 streams for these US companies. I, it's already happened. You're 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.840 absolutely right. This is an ongoing sort of concern and 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.520 ongoing cloud and describe it how you want, but this 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.480 is something that people have to be conscious of, this 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:51.240 idea of decoupling. China is the biggest market for semi conductors. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.120 It was on its way to being the biggest market 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.760 for semi conductor capital equipment. If you are a shareholder 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.920 of these companies, whether they're European, whether they're North America, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.560 you want your company to do business there. If they can't, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.800 then that's a problem. And I know you've sort of 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.800 touched on it within a moment ago, but it sets 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.040 China back How far? How long can we make some 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.240 sort of view on whether this ha indeed, as we 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.400 set this whole conversation up, given the US and its 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.120 allies a leg up. Yeah, I mean that's that's a 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.720 very difficult question to answer. I think most people would say, look, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.840 you cut them off from our technology, from the West technology, 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.560 and we're talking years before they can even get to parity. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.800 Maybe never. But the flip side of that is, though, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.400 is that you know, chip companies here are saying, actually, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.560 if you look at the fine print, what the Japanese 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.280 are doing and what the Dutch are doing is nowhere 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.520 near as severe as what we're doing. So unless we 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.560 have this consensus, this similar level of action. Actually we're 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.640 not really doing what we're supposed to be doing, so 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.480 there's a bit of a debate there as to how 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.440 effective these rules are going to be. All right, thanks 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.640 to Bloombergsy and King on the chip beat. Now coming up, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.720 Apple actually trying to reduce its dependence on China for 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.440 its iPhone manufacturing. More on that next. Take a look 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.880 at Apple shares really quickly and how we're trading. A 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:15.520 lot of analysis of how Apple will fare politically US China, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.120 but also supply chain Reja. We're down almost two percent 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.400 though in the session, in this risk off mode. This 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:44.200 is bloomberg time. Now for talking text, starting with Amazon 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.120 and Microsoft, whose cloud services could face a full blown 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.240 ANTITUSK probe over in the UK as after the country's 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.360 Digital Regulator ofcom says it found evidence that the firms 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.280 and maybe abusing their market power, making it basically hard 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.840 for people to switch or use multiple cloud suppliers off cooms. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.400 It's particularly concerned about the US tech firms because of 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.679 their dominant position. Here's another big tech company under scrutiny. Meta. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.000 That's after Italy's Competition authority opened a probe against its 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.439 over allegations it may have exploited its bargaining power more 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.240 negotiating with the country's main artists rights organization. The watchdog 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.359 also says look Meta may have withheld information needed to 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.880 carry out negotiations. And over to Asia, where Fox Con, 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.240 the world's largest maker of Apple devices, increased revenue year 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.119 on year and only by four percent last quarter, underscoring 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.040 houphes or a recession is really crimping demand for iPhones 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.960 and other consumer electronics, and the reported revenue of forty 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.280 eight billion dollars while it's down steeply even from the 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.920 previous three months when a COVID outbreak prompted protests and 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.280 its main facility in Central China disrupting iPhone production basically 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.840 for weeks end. And we're going to dig in more. Yeah, 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.160 So'scot and Apple. Are those two tech names re examining 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.880 their electronic supply chain which is centered on China. Let's 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.360 start deeper into all things Apple and how it's laying 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.359 the foundation to make iPhones elsewhere, which was the topic 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.399 of a Business Week piece today Bloomberg Business Weeks Josh E. 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.240 Brustein here with more. There was a very public visit 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.920 by Tim Cook to China recently. What sources is telling 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.880 us josh is that at the same time, executives are 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.560 trying to move away from China. What's happening. Yeah. Absolutely. 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.640 You see Cook and Apple doing a sort of delicate 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.080 dance here where they're trying to reassure China, a very 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.800 important partner, that everything is okay, while also trying to 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.879 make sure that they are less reliant on China. We 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.840 saw the big disruptions late last year at the Fox 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.720 kN plant and iPhone City, and they're building up capacity 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.879 in other countries so that they are less vulnerable to 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.359 geographic disruptions in the future. Joshua, Can you tell us 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.879 a little bit about where, which countries where does the 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.960 supply chain shift? Yeah? Absolutely so for iPhones, which is 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:58.000 the majority of their production that is shifting primarily to India. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.960 This has been happening for about five years, but it's 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.159 really ramped up over the last year or so, and 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.800 the next iPhone generation could be the first time we 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.119 see the first batch of iPhones leaving both from China 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.680 and India at the same time. For mac production, that's 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.800 happening in Southeast Asia as well, Malaysia and also Vietnam, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.399 a little bit in Ireland, but less complex kind of 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.320 put together. Yeah, exactly for some mac products that will 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.800 happen in Ireland, but primarily the focus there is on 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.600 Southeast Asia. Josh, I guess the question goes to which 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.359 products and what rationale. Right when the second wave of 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.879 COVID hit mainland China, it became apparent that the higher 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.119 end pro models, the production of them, was concentrated in 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.480 Jung Joe. A lot of our reporting seems to suggest 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.000 that this is political as well, in terms of what's 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.040 going on between the US and China. Which is it? Yeah, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:51.960 I mean I think that there's two things going on 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.840 simultaneously right now. You do have just the inherent vulnerability 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.840 of concentrating such an important production pacity in one geographic area. 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.720 You know, if there's a disruption due to COVID and 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.640 the only place shoemake these phones there's in one area 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.760 and they're suffering from COVID, then you really run into 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.919 a problem. But also it's really impossible to ignore the 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.440 intention between the United States and China and all sorts 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:21.400 of areas. And I think Apple is looking to avoid 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.960 some of that by having a fallback plan if something 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.160 does happen. It's a great weed. Go get your business week, 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:37.400 Joshua bursting, Well, thank you so much for it. This 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:43.080 is a incredibly disruptive new technology. All of the leading 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.520 AI labs know they're creating something dangerous, but none of 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.800 them really want to stop it. Welcome back to new technology. 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.400 I'm Canaine hiding and I'm d Lovelow in San Francisco. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.320 The chat GPT revolution carrow could open the door to 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.119 a four day week by providing a major productivity boost 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.560 for many jobs. That's according to Nobel Prize winning labor 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:09.080 economists Christopher Pissarides, who says the labor market can adapt 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:13.760 quickly enough to AI backchatbots tampering down concerns that rapid 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.320 advances in tech could bring mass job layoffs. And I 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.400 don't know if you saw this one, but President Biden 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:24.000 tweeting about AI overnight. I was wondering, Carol, when the 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.159 White House would weigh in on this, as often is 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.880 the case, and here comes the split. We have the 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.760 pro side, in fact, the Nobel Prize winning economists saying, look, 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.399 this could be really additive to our productivity. Yes, there 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.280 are sub concerns and President Biden really highlighting them there, 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:44.040 but we continue to daily discuss how much are we 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.960 really thinking about the ethics involved, how much are we 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.119 thinking about the negative consequences as well as the positive consequences? 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.040 And Professor parisides thoughts in line with what Goldman said 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.320 last month, three hundred million global jobs at risk, but 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.400 plus seven percent annual contribution to global GDP potentially from 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.359 generative AI. So you know there's concern, but there's hope. 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.679 So let's bring in Richard Socher for more. He's the 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.359 CEO and founder of the AI search engine you dot com. 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.600 He also served as the Chief Scientists a VP at Salesforce, 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.960 and was the CEO and CTO of AI startup meta 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:22.280 Mind before that. You were not one of the signatories 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.840 to the pause petition last week, but you operate a 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.439 generative AI search engine. Are you one of those that 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.320 thinks a pause is helpful or just adds to the noise? 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.040 I don't think a pause is feasible. It's hard to 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.439 tell people like, don't think about this, don't work on 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.520 this abstract general purpose technology. I do think it is 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.199 important for lawmakers to think about how to deal with 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.160 a changing job landscape. I do think it'll make sense 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.920 for us to regulate this technology as it gets applied 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:04.760