1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. Time to 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 3: go into the vault for an older episode of the show. 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 3: This one today is from May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, 7 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 3: and it's part two of our series on the Beaver, 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 3: a thrilling, strange, wonderful animal far more amazing and bizarre 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 3: than you might have thought. Can your heart stand the 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 3: shocking facts? 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: All right, let's dive right in. 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 4: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: name is Robert. 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are back 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: with part two of our series on the Beaver. 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. In the last episode, we hopefully gave you a newfound, 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: improved and reinvigorated appreciation for the common beaver, the world's 19 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: second largest living rodent and a tireless ecosystem engineer. 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 3: That's right. Last time we focused mainly on the real 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: life biology, behavior, and ecological role of the beaver, So 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 3: if you haven't listened to part one, you should probably 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 3: go back and check that one out first. I think 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: that will give you a richer understanding of the stuff 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about today. But for a 26 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: very brief recap, Yeah, beavers are large. They're the second 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 3: largest extant rodent after the capybara. Beavers have iron in 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 3: their teeth, perfect for chewing through wood to cut down 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: trees and for gnawing off pieces of vegetation. Beavers of 30 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: course eat vegetation their herbivores, and their diet includes foliage 31 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: but also the bark and the outer layers of soft 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 3: wood from tree branches and trunks. Beavers of course build 33 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: amazing structures. They dam waterways to change the characteristics of 34 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: flowing waterways to sort of like create ponds, redirect water flow, 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: and so forth to deepen water channels. And they also 36 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: build these essentially impenetrable lodges with underwater entrances and exits 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: for their own housing and protection. And these constructions also 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: allow underwater storage of caches of vegetation to provide food 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: throughout the winter. And then finally, we discussed several studies 40 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: of what might or might not be considered tool use 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: in beavers. This was a lot of fun, including we 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 3: had a long digression on the so called stick displays 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 3: where some beavers in particular populations is not common to 44 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 3: all beavers of either of the extant species, but this 45 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 3: was documented among some Eurasian beavers in Norway. They would 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: pick up a stick and they would shake it, shake 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 3: it up and down while holding it in the mouth 48 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: and forepaws. The researchers believed this was to demonstrate strength 49 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: in order to drive away potential antagonists, maybe other beavers 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: encroaching onto their territory. And of course we ended up 51 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 3: highlighting the most impressed of the stick shaking beaver's a beautiful, 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: powerful warrior of the wasteland named Beergit. 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: Yes her name, I had to look this up. Her 54 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: name and apparently means power, strength, vigor, and virtue. I 55 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: mean the other beaver in that study that's not as 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: as impressive the second place shake. The second place was Froda. 57 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: Frodo's name means clever, learned, and wise. And this is also, 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: like I said, this is related to Frodo, Like Frodo 59 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: is like a variation of this name that Tolkien used 60 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: in the Lord of the Rings. 61 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: That makes sense. Yeah. However, while the real life biology 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: of the beaver is truly fascinating. What actually first got 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: us interested in this topic was something you came across, 64 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: rob which was the pattern of deeply off the mark 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: illustrations of beaver's in medieval and Renaissance manuscripts, just so 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: far off the mark in depicting this animal. You wonder 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: how it happened. 68 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, we got into a little bit and discussed how 69 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: we have to take into account that when we do 70 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: have one variety of beavers in North America and the 71 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: other variety in Eurasia, you know, not everyone would have 72 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: had direct exposure to it. You have that game of 73 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: telephone taking place about these species depending on illustrations and 74 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: second and third hand accounts. Then there's the added fact 75 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: that beavers are largely nocturnal. They live out often in 76 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: very remote circumstances, so the average even observer may not 77 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: get to observe them that closely. And then, as we'll 78 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: discuss in this episode, even more, there are additional elements 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: of their physiology that may mystify someone who is observing 80 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: them in the wild or trying to make sense of 81 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: their bodies as the carcass is processed. 82 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, another thing, though, is that the Eurasian beaver was 83 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: once hunted near to extinction. Its populations have bounced back 84 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: significantly since then, since the twentieth century, but it came 85 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: kind of close for the Eurasian, like the hunter has 86 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 3: really got over on them for a while. 87 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. North American beavers were also in bad shape, and 88 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: two of the main drivers for this. One of them 89 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: is beaver hats in beaver fur. I'm to understand that 90 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: the beaver hat going out of style helped out a lot, 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: but there's another major beaver product, beaver derived product we're 92 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: going to discuss in this episode that also threatened these species. 93 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, these are going to be important, especially when 94 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: we talk about a particular detail of various bestiaries and 95 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: illuminated manuscripts that show beavers or alleged beavers. Some of 96 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: these are very strange beaver. They look more like a 97 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: deer or a dog, or a lion or you name it. 98 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: But at any rate, the main perplexing detail is that 99 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: they are depicted chewing off their own testicles whilst being 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 1: pursued by a human hunter. 101 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: I thought we should mention and describe a few of 102 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 3: these actual illustrations and the manuscripts they come from. So 103 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: I came across a post about this on the British 104 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: Library's Medieval Manuscript's blog. I love the British Library's blogs, 105 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 3: by the way, they often are wonderful resource. But this 106 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: post is from November seventh, twenty twelve. It's called Beaver's 107 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: on the Run by Nicole Eddie, and it includes a 108 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: number of illustrations, a couple that we alluded to at 109 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 3: the beginning of part one of this series, and several 110 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 3: that I think we haven't talked about yet, but none 111 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: of which have we featured in detail. So the author 112 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: of this blog post says you can usually recognize a 113 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 3: beaver in a medieval bestiary, which seemed at first like 114 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: a very odd statement, because most of these drawings look 115 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: absolutely nothing like the real animal, not even a little, 116 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: But she goes on to explain you can recognize them 117 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 3: because they are always depicted the same way in a 118 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 3: characteristic or stereotyped scene quote on the run, pursued by 119 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 3: a hunter who is frequently blowing a horn and accompanied 120 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: by hunting dogs. And just as you said, Rob, we 121 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: can add to that image the fact that they are 122 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 3: often depicted either discarding or in the middle of biting 123 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: off their own testicles while in hot pursuit several examples. 124 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: Let's start with one we briefly alluded to in Part one. 125 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: So this is a miniature from a Latin bestiary originating 126 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: in England from the second or third quarter of the 127 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: thirteenth century. The manuscript is known as Sloane thirty five 128 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: forty four. So what we see in a miniature with 129 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: the Latin text all around is a sort of rectangle 130 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 3: of red background decorated with these three leaf clover shapes. 131 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: And then we have what appears to be some kind 132 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: of big cat, maybe a mountain lion. Compared to the 133 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 3: human and the dog in this drawing, it is about 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: the size of a horse. Also, it has a horse's tail. 135 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: Did you notice that has like a hairtail? 136 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: This does not even look like a fish tail. As 137 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: we mentioned before some depictions of beavers, they often have 138 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: almost like a mermaid quality to them. 139 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: Of course, beavers do have interesting unusual tails. They have 140 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: the flat tail, which aids them in swimming, but they 141 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 3: also use for a type of signaling known as water slapping, 142 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: where they slap the surface of the water to make 143 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: loud sounds, and this is use for social reasons to 144 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: signal to the other beavers around them that may be 145 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 3: a predator or a rival beaver from outside the family 146 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: group is approaching their territory. 147 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: I will say this about this particular quote unquote beaver. 148 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: The posture here with feet back, rear feet on the ground, 149 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: front feet elevated, and this tail as horsey as it looks, 150 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: it is kind of going down and out, which is 151 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: at least vaguely reminiscent of the way that beavers will 152 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: often walk if they're carrying something, you know, with that 153 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: tail helping them to balance and their front legs are 154 00:08:58,640 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: up helping to carry something. 155 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 3: That would be fortunate if that was the artist's intention. 156 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,479 Speaker 3: But I think what's being shown here is a horsehair 157 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 3: styled tail like flapping in the wind as the beaver runs. 158 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: If it were not for the vulgar air as we'll 159 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: discuss regarding the eating of the testicles or the biting 160 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: of the testicles here, this is otherwise, I think a 161 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: beautiful image. I like the use of the like the red, 162 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: like the deep crimson behind it. 163 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: Oh but wait, we didn't get to the animal's head yet. 164 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: So it's got horse sized body, horse looking tail, but 165 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 3: with feline paws and an approximately leonine head like a 166 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: mountain lion's head, but also with a snake neck. It's 167 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 3: kind of a dragon like. The neck is curving around 168 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 3: and it appears to be covered in maybe feathers or scales, 169 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: and the neck is curving all the way around for 170 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: the head to reach back and yes, bite its own testicles. 171 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: While the beast is in mid spring, it's leaping through 172 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: the air and biting while it's aloft, it's its front 173 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 3: paws are off the ground. 174 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: It is range ima, chef. You had no background on this, 175 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: you would just think this is a fantastic creature. 176 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Meanwhile, the hunting dog is after it, of course, 177 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: sort of barking, pulling. Maybe is that a leashure? I 178 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: can't quite tell, But there's a hunter also a dude 179 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: standing there looking kind of like a hungover George Washington, 180 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 3: and he is blowing an upturned hunter's horn. 181 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. All the eyes in this image look kind of bloodshot, 182 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: which adds an interesting effect to it. 183 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: Okay, next image for us to discuss. This is from 184 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 3: a work known as the Rochester Bestiary from England around 185 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: the year twelve thirty, in a manuscript called Royal twelve f. 186 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: This one is a lot more colorful. Here, the hunt 187 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: takes place on a green hill with a golden sky 188 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 3: in the background and trees that look like asparagus. The 189 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: hunter has blonde surfer hair and wears a blue tunic. 190 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 3: He really does. It's kind of surfery, isn't it. It's 191 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 3: kind of Owen Wilson hair. Yeah, and he's blowing his horn. 192 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: He's carrying either a sword or a club of some 193 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 3: kind in the other hand from the horn. The dogs 194 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 3: are howling in pursuit. The beaver is once again sort 195 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: of a serpentine lion, with the long scaly neck twisting 196 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: all the way back around biting off the genitalia, but 197 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 3: with a different face this time. The beaver's face here 198 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 3: is kind of sad and porky, like a like a 199 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 3: lion pig muttering geez not again. 200 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is another strange one where the beaver looks 201 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: more like a camel or perhaps you know, some variation 202 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: of prehistoric mammal. 203 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, now I want to get into some ones that 204 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 3: have more differences. The next one has actually no testicle biting. 205 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 3: This is from an herbal medicine manual called Tractatus de 206 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: Herbis from Salerno, which is in Italy, produced between twelve 207 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 3: eighty and thirteen ten. The manuscript is called Egerton seven 208 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: forty seven. Here the hunter is a wizard. That interesting. 209 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 3: He's wearing a pointy wizard hat, and he has huge hands, 210 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: one of which which is like up in front of 211 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 3: his face, almost as if he's marveling at the hand, 212 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: like how did my hand get this way? What has 213 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: become of me? 214 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? This image has a kind of childlike wonder to it, 215 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: especially when we're describing the beaver. 216 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: That's right, right, So, yeah, the wizard hunter has gigantic 217 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 3: hands bigger than his head. He's got his horns slung 218 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 3: around his shoulder. He's about to heave a spear. Interesting, 219 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: I guess there was spear hunting of beavers maybe, But 220 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 3: he's got a spear like cocked back ready to throw it. 221 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 3: And then the hunter, the dogs, and the beaver are 222 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: all standing in what looks like a field of spinach plants. 223 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 3: Like there are these green forking plants interspursed all around. 224 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's supposed to be the kind 225 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 3: of vegetation growing in the landscape that has been altered 226 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: by the proximity of a beaver dam. And then one 227 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 3: of the dogs is gigantic and the other is not 228 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: that gigantic. And then the beaver is a horse, and 229 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean that it's not like a horse. 230 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: The beaver is a horse. It's just horse. 231 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, a kind of shaggy looking horse with I believe 232 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,239 Speaker 1: visible testicles. 233 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, not just visible. They're sort of in bold 234 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: compared to the rest of the illustration. Do you know 235 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, they're like filled in a 236 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 3: darker color than anything else. So the beaver horse is 237 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 3: not biting them off, but they're just like they're very 238 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 3: prominent and they're almost perfectly centered in the illustration. 239 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe the dogs got to him before he could, 240 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: in this narrative get rid of them. 241 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: Okay, This next one I thought was really funny. This 242 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: is from another English best year a twelfth century, in 243 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: a manuscript called Stowe ten sixty seven. It's not fully colored, 244 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: in just a line drawing. The hunter looks like he's 245 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: dancing kind of. He looks, you know, jolly, like he's moving, 246 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: he's feeling the rhythm, and he's blowing his horn and 247 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 3: pointing a single finger at the beaver with his one hand. 248 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: You see the pointing hand. I don't know why. That 249 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 3: was really funny to me. But the beaver, meanwhile, is 250 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: a dog. It's just fully a dog, but with one 251 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 3: major variation with weird bulbous eye sockets bulging out of 252 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 3: his head over the snout. And we were trying to 253 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: figure out which Star Wars alien this dog looked like. 254 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: I eventually realized I was sort of thinking, it looks 255 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: like the dog version of the Zando Zan assassin from 256 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: the Last Starfighter. 257 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see that, and I took a 258 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: I was like, something was about this was ringing Star 259 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: Wars for me as well. So I had the best 260 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: ares some of a couple of Star Wars best areas 261 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: out anyway for the monster fact I'm working on for 262 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: this week. So I was like, what is it reminding 263 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: me of? And I think it's reminded me of of 264 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: Issue tib. This is a strange kind of avian or 265 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: beaked looking creature that's in the background at Jaba's palace, 266 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: but has also subsequently been used in like comics and 267 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: on the Clone Wars and stuff like that. 268 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 3: This was one of the those where you showed me 269 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: an image and I was like, oh, I have seen 270 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 3: this before, but I can't remember from where. It's really 271 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: kind of in the background, but yeah, Isshu tub is 272 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 3: like in Return of the Jedi, the I found a 273 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 3: shot of him like back sort of behind Luke's head 274 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: while Luke is pointing a blaster at Jaba. 275 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: He's not, in my opinion, one of the more interesting 276 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: Jaba's Palace aliens. Like I didn't have him as a figure, 277 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: which maybe that's because I didn't find him interesting, or 278 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: maybe I don't find him interesting because I don't have 279 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: the connection with the toy. 280 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 3: Well, anyway, do you get back to the beaver in 281 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: this drawing, which again is just a dog. It's interesting 282 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: because he's not biting his testicles here, they're floating in 283 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 3: the air behind him, as if the alien dog beaver 284 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: has sort of projectile defecated them in the hunter's direction. 285 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 3: You see, they're like a floating four leaf clover in 286 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 3: the air. 287 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: The four leafed aspect of the testicle is interesting, and 288 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: I think that will be of note when we get 289 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: into the actual anatomy of the lower regions of the beaver. 290 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: Now, the examples don't stop there. We could go on 291 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: naming many more, but I think you get the idea. 292 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 3: There was one thing I just wanted to mention further 293 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: because it's kind of interesting variation, and that's an illustration 294 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 3: of a beaver hunt from the Queen Mary Salter, an 295 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 3: early fourteenth century manuscript called Royal two B. And in 296 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: this one, the beaver again looks nothing like a beaver, 297 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: but in a different way. This time it's just a fox. 298 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: It's yeah, would you say it looks like a gray fox? 299 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like a fox. 300 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: The hunter approaches with an axe propped up on his shoulder, 301 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: and the beaver lies on his back, exposing his belly. Interesting. 302 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: Apparently this was another common motif in these medieval illustrations 303 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 3: of beavers, in addition to beaver's biting off their own testicles. Allegedly, 304 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 3: this would happen they would lie on their back and 305 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: expose their belly after they had previously bitten them off, 306 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: or after they had been harvested by a previous hunter 307 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 3: and the beaver had survived. So the beaver here is 308 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: revealing I haven't got what you're looking for. And then 309 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: the hunter in this image, the hunter does look kind 310 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: of annoyed. Doesn't he He's like, ah, what for real? 311 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: He does these guys hand up like ah, man chase 312 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: this critter down in the woods and it doesn't have 313 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: the goods anymore. 314 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 3: But in the medieval lore of beaver hunts, the idea 315 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: was that the beaver is clever. It knows what the 316 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: hunter is looking for, and the beaver is thinking, oh, 317 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 3: if I can show off that I don't have what 318 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: the hunter needs, it won't kill me. 319 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, this is going to be interesting to reflect 320 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: on it in a bit. When we talk about beaver aggression, 321 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: I can only imagine that this idea of the cornered 322 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: beaver being a docile creature, yes, is an extreme exaggeration 323 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: and inaccuracy. 324 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 3: So this imagery is obviously a lot of fun. But 325 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: rob would you, I think it's safe to say, I 326 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 3: hope you'll agree that the chomping, off, dropping, shooting, projectile, 327 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: pooping of testicles, none of this reflects any biological reality. 328 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: This is not something beavers actually do, or ever actually did. 329 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, this is, as we'll discuss in a bit. 330 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: It's referred to as the vulgar error. At times, the 331 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: error is based on some definite biological realities. Concerning the beaver. 332 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: But they did not do this. Yeah, this is not 333 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: something they did. This is not something I think any 334 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: animal does. So before we get into exactly why, though, 335 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: we have to talk about what they were after with 336 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: all of this. They were after castorium. 337 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: The hunters were Yes, the hunters were. 338 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: After castorium, a product derived from beavers. I believe we 339 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: mentioned this briefly in the last episode. But the basic 340 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: reality here is beavers keep their hide waterproof via oily 341 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: secretions from their cast or glands. Each beaver, male or 342 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: female has a pair of these along with a pair 343 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: of glands. So so far castor glands anal glands, one 344 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: pair of each. This alone makes me think back to 345 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: that sort of four clothed testicle that has dropped in 346 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: one of those eliminated manuscript details we were discussing. 347 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the four sac that's being chucked at the hunter. 348 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I found a great article of great short 349 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: but detailed article with illustrations about the glands of the beaver. 350 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: This is from nineteen seventy eight by Gerald E. Svenson, 351 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: and it's titled castor and anal Glands of the Beaver 352 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: and was published in the Journal of Mammalogy, and it's 353 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: on jay Store. It's free to access. If you really 354 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: want to go in depth on this and see the 355 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: very helpful illustrations, I definitely recommend it. But the author 356 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: here says, quote, these glands liberate odoriferous products that may 357 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 1: be used in the construction of scent mounts and in 358 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: scent communication. 359 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: This will sort of connect to what we talked about 360 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 3: in the previous episode about the territoriality observed in the 361 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 3: Eurasian beavers, where a family group would build a lodge 362 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: in a dam and it would sort of police the 363 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: borders of its area to keep rivals out, and one 364 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 3: of the things it would do in order to indicate 365 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: the borders of its area is do scent marking. And 366 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 3: often it was observed that along with the stick shaking behavior, 367 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 3: when a beaver felt its territory might be being encroached on 368 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 3: by another beaver from outside the group, it would engage 369 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 3: in additional scent marking. It would start to mark either 370 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 3: with anal glands or castorium. 371 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. 372 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: So both anal and castor glands are in a cavity 373 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: that the author here describes as being similar to a scrotum, 374 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: and it quote testes lie anterior to the glands in 375 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: the distal region of the nguin Old canal. The testes 376 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: protrude into the gland cavity in sexually mature males that 377 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: are separated from the glands by tissue of the terminal 378 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: end of the Ingenol canal and the lining of the 379 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: gland cavity. Okay, I realize that's a lot and joe 380 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: for you. Anyway, I included an illustration from this paper 381 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: that I think makes a little more sense of this. 382 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: This is one of two illustrations that the author provides 383 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: and a reminder. We're very much in the kloaca here. 384 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 3: Right, So in the back of the beaver, sort of 385 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: between the tail and the hind legs, we have the 386 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 3: gland cavity and it contains these different organs, the anal 387 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: gland and the castor gland. 388 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: Yes, now, he points out that anal glands are posterior 389 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: to the castor glands, and each gland opens independently via ducts. 390 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: So the castor glands, however, don't open directly to the outside. Instead, 391 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: they hook up to the urethra and open into the 392 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: beaver's cloaca. However, imagine this will be key to what 393 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: we're discussing here. Quote. Contraction of the muscle sheath also 394 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: forces the papillary end of the anal gland to protrude 395 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: from the kloeca. I do not think the same is 396 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: true of the castor glands proper, but again I'm thinking 397 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: of some of that basically getting back to this idea 398 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: of glands something like testicles, or they could be seen 399 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: as testicles emerging from the cloaca of the beaver, and 400 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: then it's not there again, you know. Common feature of 401 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: these illustrations interesting though, these if I'm understanding everything correctly, 402 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: these would be the anal glands, not the castor glands. 403 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: But the illustrator doesn't understand. It's either one they think 404 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 3: they're seeing gonads and then like they're there again, and 405 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: then then they're gone. 406 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: Right now. As for the castorium itself, I've seen it 407 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: described as butter like. Svenson describes it as yellowish, but 408 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: then it turns brown when exposed to air and sunlight. 409 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: That urine washes the cast st or out in a 410 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote composite mixture that has a pungent odor. He writes, 411 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: the secretions from both pairs of glands quote can be 412 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: involved in scent mound construction, but that the method of 413 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: producing these secretions differs based on what we've just discussed. 414 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: So anal gland secretions are rubbed on something, they're expressed, 415 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: and then the beaver you know, gets to rub it 416 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: on the rock or the tree trunk, whatever, While castorium 417 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: is essentially urinated out, so beavers use castorum to mark 418 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: territory and to waterproof their fur. But since ancient times 419 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: humans have found other uses for the substance. To harvest it, 420 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: it can be milked from a live animal apparently, I've 421 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: read that they frequently expel it when handled, though again 422 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: huge caveat here. Don't go trying to handle beavers. I'm 423 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: not sure under what circumstances it is even and recommended 424 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: to do this, but leave it to the professionals. Professional 425 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: beaver handlers, if they exist, are the ones that need 426 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: to be doing this. Most of what we're talking about here, 427 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: especially with these illustrations and historical collection of castorium, though, 428 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: involves of course killing the beaver, and this requires the 429 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: glands to be removed post mortem and then smoked for 430 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: preservation Joe, I've included a photo. You can find lots 431 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: of photos of castorium that has been dried or smoked, 432 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: and it essentially looks like some sort like you might 433 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: imagine some sort of like like dried up gland, some 434 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, mummified scrotum sort of idea here. 435 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 3: You ever like a drop of fingerling potato while you're 436 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: preparing food and it rolls under the cabinet and you 437 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: don't realize it's there, and then you find it a 438 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 3: few months later when you're cleaning, and it's all shriveled 439 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 3: up into Yes, like a mummy of a potato. That's 440 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 3: what it looks like. 441 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: Yes, Now getting into this idea of the alleged testicle drop, 442 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: this has been around for quite a while, and you 443 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: find mention of it in the works of Plenty the 444 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: Elder from the Natural History, where of course we're always 445 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: turning to Plenty to see what he had to say. 446 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: And this is what he had to say in the 447 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: Natural History. This is the Bostic translation quote. The beavers 448 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: of Yuxin, when they are closely pressed by danger, themselves 449 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: cut off the same part as they know that it 450 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: is for this they are pursued. This substance is called 451 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: castorian by the physicians. In addition to this, the bite 452 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: of this animal is terrible. With its teeth, it can 453 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: cut down trees on the banks of rivers just as 454 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: though with a knife. If they seize a man by 455 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: any part of his body, they will never loose their 456 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: hold until his bones are broken and crackle under their teeth. 457 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: The tail is like that of a fish. In other 458 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: parts of the body, they resemble the otter. They are 459 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: both of them aquatic animals, and both have hair softer 460 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: than down. 461 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 3: I love the description of the ferociousness here is sort 462 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 3: of describing like the snapping turtle reputation. You know, it 463 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 3: won't let go into lightning strikes. If you make a 464 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 3: beaver mad, it's gonna bite until your bones are broken, 465 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 3: and basically it's crunching on them like cereal. 466 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is an idea that I think for 467 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: many of us might seem comical because we don't think 468 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: of the beaver as being aggressive. And I you know, 469 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: as we discussed in the last episode, beavers, certainly when 470 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: they're dealing with other beavers, they have an number of 471 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: safeguards in place to prevent like actual combat from occurring 472 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: unless necessary. So you might be wondering, well, is there 473 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: anything too, Is this just Plenty getting it wrong, or 474 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: are beaver's truly this ferocious? Well, beaver attacks on humans 475 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: are rare, but they are not unknown. Rabis can of 476 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: course play a role, but it's not always a factor 477 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: in these rare instances. We might laugh at Plenty's description, 478 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: but beavers are of course wild animals. They should be respected, 479 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: and they can be put into situations where they then 480 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: violently defend themselves. There has been at least one account 481 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: of a fatal attack on a human in the last century, 482 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: and I believe in that case it was a situation 483 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: where they were bit by the beaver and then bled 484 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: to death. Now, there is a wonderful CBC Radio interview 485 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: out there if you haven't heard it, from the early 486 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: nineties and then I'm not sure the date is known, 487 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: but it was rebroadcasting I think ninety seven, and that's 488 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: the version that is archived with CBC Radio. It's apparently 489 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: one of the most requested recordings from the CBC Radio archive. 490 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: If you look for it, you can find it out there. 491 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: It is action packed, it is a little bit funny, 492 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: but it's also not for the weak of heart. 493 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: This interview is riveting. A man describes I think he's 494 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: trying to drive across a bridge in his truck when 495 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: during a heavy downpour, or maybe right after one, and 496 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 3: the bridge is sort of flooded. There's some water standing 497 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 3: between the concrete barriers on the sides of the bridge, 498 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: and it appears that a beaver has taken up residence 499 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 3: on the bridge. It's sort of swimming back and forth 500 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 3: in the water. The man gets out of his truck 501 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 3: because he is afraid he has accidentally hit the beaver 502 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 3: with his truck, and when he gets out, the beaver 503 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: angrily latches onto his leg and proceeds to attack him 504 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 3: multiple times. He sustains. It seems not life threatening necessarily, 505 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: but pretty serious sounding injuries, Like the beaver bites and 506 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: it bites hard. 507 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, like bites him like eleven times, and he's just 508 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: fighting it off, trying to get back in his truck 509 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: and drive off. I think he has to hit it 510 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: with a propane tank at some point. And yeah, it's 511 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: a violent account, though I have to stress that the 512 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: the man telling the tale, he has a lot of 513 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: sympathy for the beaver, and at the end of it, 514 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: he's like, you know, it's my fault. I'm the one 515 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: who I thought I hit it, and I should never 516 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: have gotten out of the car. It was just it 517 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: was just out of the truck. It was just defending itself. 518 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: But it really drives home that, yes, if the beaver 519 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: is cornered, the beaver can be ferocious. Those teeth can 520 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: dig into you, and you can easily see how in 521 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: another situation, if the beaver had got him in just 522 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: a few different places, he could have easily bled to 523 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: death before he was able to drive himself to the hospital. 524 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: I also like how the individual in this story he's 525 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: quick to add it's like, I've been bit by just 526 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: about every animal out there, but I'd never been bit 527 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: or i'd been attacked by it. Just about every animal 528 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: out there been attacked by a wolverine one imagines a moose, 529 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: but never a beaver. 530 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. But I am, like you said, impressed by he 531 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: holds no malice for the beaver even after the attack. 532 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 3: I think he just keeps saying he was on defense. 533 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, So definitely sweep that out of you if you're interested. 534 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: But back to the plenty document here, One of the 535 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: notes on this text points out that Plenty derived this 536 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: description from the physician Sextius, and the text goes hun 537 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: to remark on the vulgar error here and mentions the 538 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: work of the French naturalist Cuvier. Quote. Cuvier remarks that 539 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: when the gland becomes distended with this secretion, the animal 540 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: may probably get rid of it by rubbing the part 541 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: against a stone or tree, and in this way leave 542 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: the cast door for the hunters, thus giving rise to 543 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: the vulgar error. Now this is interesting because going back 544 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: to what we just discussed, it discussed disgusted. Sorry, it's 545 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: easy to get the too confused here. What we're talking 546 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: about here, what they're rubbing would be the anal gland secretions, 547 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: not the cast door. But still, you can imagine this 548 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: situation where you'd have something distended from the lower end 549 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: of the beaver, something and that may look from a 550 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: pair of glands that may look like testicles. Here's this 551 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: beaver going up or rubbing itself against a stone or 552 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: a piece of a tree branch or something, and then 553 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: oh lo and behold, whatever was protruding is gone. This 554 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: could be the thing that quote gives rise to the 555 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: vulgar era. 556 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: Yep, that does make sense, and it connects again to 557 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: the idea of the scent markings being territorial boundaries in nature, 558 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: you know, trying to ward off encroachments by other beavers 559 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: often so it makes a lot of sense that, say, 560 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: if a hunter is coming into a beaver's family group territory, 561 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 3: the hunter might see it marking. 562 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Now Plenty also mentions the beaver again in the natural 563 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: history when discussing the sea cow, which he says has 564 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: a similar level of intelligence and a similar alleged defense capability. 565 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: Quote. 566 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: And this is talking about the sea cow. It vomits 567 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: forth its gall which is useful for many purposes in medicine. 568 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: Also the rennet, which serves as a remedy in epilepsy, 569 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: for it is well aware that it is hunted. For 570 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: these substances, Theophrastus informs us that lizards also cast their 571 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: skins like the serpent, and instantly devour them, thus depriving 572 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: us of a powerful remedy for epilepsy. He says two 573 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: that the bite of the lizard is fatal in Greece 574 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: but harmless in Italy. Okay, Now there is some merit 575 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: to what plenty is saying here generally because certain creatures 576 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: are thought to leave behind parts of their body or 577 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: vomit something as a distract for predators. We also know 578 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: very well that not just humans but animal predators sometimes 579 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: target specific organs of their prey. But what he's reporting 580 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: about the beaver here specifically is not true. But I 581 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: also find this interesting a tangent the idea that the 582 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: lizard eats its skin after it sheds it, despite us 583 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: to be like, Nope, you're not getting in your hands 584 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: on my sweet skin, when I mean, in reality, we 585 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: know that many lizards, including my son's gecko, consumes its 586 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: own sheddings because you're not gonna waste that good stuff. 587 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 3: Of course not. Yeah, nature is full of disgusting efficiencies. 588 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 3: But to add a little bit to what you said 589 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: a minute ago, it is absolutely true that, yeah, there 590 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 3: are many animals that will self amputate when threatened to 591 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 3: buy a predator or under various stressful situations. This is 592 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 3: a strategy known as autotomy. A a u t o 593 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 3: t o m y comes from the Greek for self 594 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 3: cutting or self severing. And yeah, this is you can 595 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 3: often see it like in lizards, where yes, if a predator, say, 596 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: grabs hold of their tail. The lizard will just release 597 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 3: the tail from their body the predator can have it, 598 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 3: which has a double effect that's helpful for the lizard's survival. 599 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 3: For one thing, if it is grabbed by the tail 600 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,239 Speaker 3: and then releases the tail, it has now escaped the 601 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 3: grasp of the predator. But the other thing is but 602 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 3: give being the predator a sort of consolation prize. It's 603 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 3: almost like compromising with them. It's like, well, you can 604 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 3: have this much, but you can't have my whole life. 605 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: It's also worth noting that I think, I mean, all 606 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: the examples of this that come to mind are essentially 607 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: ejections releases. They do not involve like active severing of 608 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: a creature's own body with its teeth or its claws 609 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: or that sort of thing. 610 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's a good question. All of the ones 611 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,439 Speaker 3: I can think of, having read of read about before, yeah, 612 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 3: just seem to be reject severings, often of like a 613 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: tail or a leg or something, or a claw. But 614 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 3: that is a good question. There are there cases where 615 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 3: the animal has to work on its own autonomy, where 616 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 3: it essentially must do the severing itself with its teeth, 617 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 3: or claws or other something something like that. 618 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so if the beaver were to sever its own testicles, 619 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: it would be really an alarm behavioral development. I can't 620 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: imagine a situation where this where a creature would develop, 621 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: like evolved to have this as an as an actual 622 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: feature of like dropping their testicles, like ejecting them, because 623 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: you know, even examples like certain scorpions that eject part 624 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: of their own tail and in doing so eject their 625 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: anus and then can no longer poop, as we've discussed, 626 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: and then just kind of swell up with poop for 627 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. If memory serves, they can 628 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: still reproduce. They're not giving up reproduction, that vital act 629 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: of any species in order to protect itself. 630 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 3: I did think of a possible counter example. I wish 631 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 3: I had read up on this deeply before we started recording, 632 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 3: but I believe there are cases where crabs will practice 633 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 3: autonomy and that will involve the like cutting or pulling 634 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 3: of the autonomized claw with the other claw, So that 635 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 3: is like active like the alleged beaver testicle biting it. 636 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: To crabs to do it that way. 637 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe we'll have to come back to that. In 638 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 3: listener mail or. 639 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 2: Something all right. 640 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: Now, coming back to custorium, the origins of human uses 641 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: for this substance are of course lost to time. They 642 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: emerge from somewhere in the vast period of time during 643 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: which our ancestors determined how best to process and use 644 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: an animal's body for resources that range from like the 645 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: really practical like meat and materials, to things that are 646 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: more cultural like decorations and adornments. And also that often 647 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: mercy area of medicinal and magical properties in a given substance. 648 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: But still we have some early sources to consider. Now, 649 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: apparently the ancient archaeological evidence of caustorium usage by humans 650 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: takes us back a good six thousand years. I was 651 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: looking at a paper titled Ancient Throwing Dart reveals first 652 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: archaeological evidence of Custorium, pushed in the Journal of Archaeological 653 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: Science Reports. This was in June of twenty twenty one 654 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: by Hellwig at All and basically this throwing dart in 655 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: particular was found in the Yukon territory, and it featured 656 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: a red orange residue that, upon analysis contained the various 657 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: organic ingredients and materials that matched up with beaver castorium. 658 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: The authors point out that the substance was seemingly used 659 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: to toughen wood by ancient hunters, though baiting and medicinal 660 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: uses among later First Nations people were also recorded. The 661 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: Taltan people in particular were said to use it on 662 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: the heated wood of their bows and kept some on 663 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: their person in a small container of like wood or 664 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: horn or bone. So it sounds like it was something 665 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: that was probably used to like to maintain your weapons, 666 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: to maintain your hunting implements. 667 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 3: That's a kind of oily treatment for the wood. 668 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which you know this to a certain extent, 669 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: I guess kind of reminds one of how the beavers 670 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: use it to help use that special claw comb of 671 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: theirs to comb it into their fur, in addition to 672 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: using it to mark their scent. 673 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 3: But in the fur, it's I believe it's supposed to 674 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 3: have some waterproofing purposes. 675 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Now, Sarah Lohman, in a twenty seventeen article 676 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: for Mental Floss, points it's a nice overview that points 677 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: to a number of different additional alleged uses for a castorium. 678 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: For instance, I believe in Roman times it was thought 679 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: that you could use like a smoke inhalation based version 680 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: of it for as an abortive medicine. Twelfth century mystic 681 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: Hildegarde von Bingen wrote that it could be powdered and 682 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: put into a wine to reduce fever, and then in 683 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: colonial America it was used for all sorts of stuff. 684 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: It was used as both the means of staving off 685 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: sweep you know, sort of like your trucker speed, I guess, 686 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: but it was also used to encourage sleep, you know, 687 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: having a little insomnia. Well her own castorium. It was 688 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: used as a kind of brain booster. You know, you're 689 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: feeling like you need to up your game. Well, you 690 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: can't just grab some some some pills, some brain booster 691 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: pills at the grocery store. You need to go get 692 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: yourself some castorium from the local apothecary. 693 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 3: They must have gotten really smart. 694 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. 695 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. It was used to treat colic, to treat gout, 696 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: and to treat toothaches and earaches. 697 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 3: Now I got interested in the idea of the use 698 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 3: of castorium allegedly to treat pain because of something I read. Unfortunately, 699 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 3: I was not able to find a very clear answer 700 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 3: on this, but what I read was that I was 701 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 3: looking at a book called Aspirin and the Salacillates by KD. Rainsford, 702 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 3: published in twenty thirteen. Quote salacillates have also been identified 703 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 3: in beaver castor i e. Of from where it is 704 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 3: secreted instead of the via the usual urinary route. The 705 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 3: salicylates are probably metabolic transformation products from vegetable sources in 706 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 3: the diet of the beaver. So that kind of interested 707 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 3: me because salicylates are related to the active ingredient in aspirin. 708 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 3: Aspirin is, of course, it's a nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drug 709 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 3: often used to reduce fever and treat pain inflammation, and 710 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 3: this active ingredient in aspirin, acetyl salicilic acid, is derived 711 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 3: from a precursor found in the bark of the willow tree, 712 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 3: which of course is something that beavers tend to chew 713 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 3: and eat a lot of. So this chemical relationship with 714 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 3: the active ingredient in a common nonsteroidal anti inflammatory and 715 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 3: pain reliever made me wonder if there could be some 716 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 3: kind of of connection there, like maybe this downstream animal 717 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 3: product that's derived from this original plant molecule. I wondered 718 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: if that could be playing a role in castorium actually 719 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 3: having an anti inflammatory effect or treating pain. But I 720 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 3: could not find anything solid to back up that connection, 721 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 3: So I don't know if there's actually anything to that, 722 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 3: but my curiosity is raised here. 723 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: M Yeah, that's interesting. Now, outside of alleged medicinal properties, 724 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: it also has a long history of being used as 725 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: a like a just for its scent and as a 726 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: flavor enhancer. Loman notes, as others have noted in these 727 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: other sources we've looked at that castorium, once processed, you know, 728 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: smoked or derived into a tincture, it can be used 729 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: to enhance flavors, particularly to enhance flavors of raspberry and 730 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: strawberry to replicate a kind of vanilla flavor. And it's 731 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: also been used to give perfumes a sort of leathery odor. 732 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: And I guess all this shouldn't be too surprising, again 733 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: realizing that the compounds in castorium are ultimately derived from 734 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,439 Speaker 1: leaves and tree bark, so it shouldn't be completely shocking. Now. 735 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: It's still technically an FDA approved natural flavoring in the 736 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,479 Speaker 1: United States, but it's rarely used and was far more 737 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: commonly used as a flavor enhancer in the early twentieth century. 738 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: Now you've probably if you've looked around at anything about this, 739 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: you may have come across this. There is apparently a 740 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: Swedish spirit called Baverhook that uses castorium, translated as beaver shout. 741 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: Some adventurous imbibers have sought it out. You'll find a 742 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: number of essentially I guess spirit and alcohol bloggers out 743 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: there talking about their experiences with it or doing videos, 744 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: some of these with kind of crude titles. But I 745 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: found a really nice one on a blog from an 746 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: individual named Dolly Jorgensen at Dolly dot jorgensenweb dot net, 747 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: who has like a very nice, historically driven post on 748 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: the subject that is again far classier than what I 749 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: was seeing in other places online. I just want to 750 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: read a quick quote from Dolly Jorgenson about trying out 751 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: beaver shout. Quote. The first flavor was similar to oak 752 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: cured whiskey, but then the musk comes out. It's a 753 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: hard to describe taste, but I imagine that it's what traditional 754 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: male musky cologne would taste like. It was not particularly strong, however, 755 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: so it seemed pleasant enough to consume. Most of the shot. 756 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: An hour later, however, I had a different opinion as 757 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,720 Speaker 1: the castorium sense started to seep out through my skin. 758 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: Literally my pores started to extrude the musky smell. 759 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 3: Okay, I mean that's a commercial basically. 760 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: So I thought that was tell because the way the 761 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: author describes it here it is it's probably or at 762 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: least in this case, and I guess it depends on 763 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: who's making the liquor and so forth, But it sounds 764 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,919 Speaker 1: like it's more tolerable than you might imagine, but there 765 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 1: being this kind of like after effect to consuming it. 766 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: If any adventurous sorts out there listening to this episode 767 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: have experience with beaver shout, do write in. We would 768 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your 769 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: impression of this. 770 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,479 Speaker 3: You know, this reminds me of the time we talked 771 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 3: about the liquor that had a human toe in it, 772 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 3: and then we heard from multiple listeners who said they 773 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 3: drank it. 774 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. There was another blog post that I was 775 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: looking at where the individual was like, Hey, it's kind 776 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,359 Speaker 1: of a hobby of mine to find various alcohols that 777 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: have something organic in them, something some like part and 778 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,440 Speaker 1: then try it out and you see this in different cultures, 779 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: Like the idea is like some sort of alcohol and 780 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: it has like I don't know, a snake in it, 781 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: a scorpion in it, that sort of thing. But in 782 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: this case, the the castor glands of a beaver are 783 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: used to create a unique spirit. I also looked around. 784 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe somebody's making a cocktail with this. 785 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: Maybe there's a beaver shout cocktail out there. I could 786 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: not find one. So if mixologists out there are figuring 787 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: out a way to sort of tame the flavor of 788 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: beaver shout and like sort of manipulate it into a 789 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: more refined concoction, I have not found evidence of it 790 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: of it. I went to im Buy magazine and looked 791 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: around for castorium and that nothing was coming up. And 792 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 1: that's the one place I would expect, like some professional 793 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: mixologists out there has has whipped this up, you know, 794 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: just on just as a challenge. But I saw no 795 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: evidence of it. Maybe in Sweden, maybe maybe it's like 796 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: a special thing. You need to like look to Swedish 797 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: high end bars to find this. 798 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 3: Maybe maybe you got to ask beer get where to 799 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 3: find it. 800 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I believe we're going to close 801 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: out our two parter on the beaver here, but this 802 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: was a fun one. This is one that initially I 803 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,320 Speaker 1: was thinking we would discuss these some of these images 804 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: of the beaver in an episode that looked at other 805 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: inaccurate depictions of animals from various bestiaries. And then it 806 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,840 Speaker 1: quickly became obvious that this was an entire episode, and 807 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: then that it was actually a part one and a 808 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: part two. I have so much more respect and admiration 809 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: for the weird and wonderful beaver. 810 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 3: Now, how can you not? I mean, if you don't, 811 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 3: they'll shake a stick at you. 812 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, all right, we're going to go and close 813 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,800 Speaker 1: it out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone 814 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: out there if you have thoughts experiences concerning the beaver 815 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: right in. If you want to check out other episodes 816 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: we've done in the past, We've covered a lot of 817 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: curious animals over the years, kind of composing our own 818 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: bestiary in many respects on the Stuff to Blow Your 819 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: Mind podcast. You can find core episodes of that on 820 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind 821 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: podcast feed. On Mondays, we do list you mail on 822 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: Wednesday's we do a short form artifactor of Months Your Fact, 823 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: and on Fridays we set aside most series concerns to 824 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 1: just talk about a weird movie on Weird House Cinema. 825 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you 826 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 827 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic 828 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can 829 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 830 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 3: dot com. 831 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 4: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 832 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 4: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 833 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:51,760 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.