WEBVTT - Who's in the game? 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to the solid verbal. Call that for me. I'm 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.680 a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well, 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:10.639 I want to be happy. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.080 You want to be happy for a day? 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.880 Edith State is that woo woom? 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:20.279 And Dan and Tie Welcome back to the Solid Verbal 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.639 Boys and girls, My name is Ty Hildenbrand. Joining me 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:29.640 today Matt Brown from the Extra Points College Football newsletter. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.240 Dan is still taking some time off. Don't worry, he's fine. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.320 He mentioned to me this morning that he thought we 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.040 secret verbaled him on the last show. He wasn't sure. 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.600 Of course, I played ignorance, but he did seem to 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.360 enjoy it. So good job, good effort. Team. You can 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.760 call off the dogs now. Look, don't forget the subscribe 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.040 to the show. If you haven't already, you can go 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.240 to soliverbal dot com. That's the website upper right hand corner. 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.120 You can find all the links for how to subscribe 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.520 to the show. We're going twice a week all throughout 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.080 the offseason. At some point, once we get closer to 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.600 the season, we will switch back up to three episodes 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.360 per week, but a couple months away from that actually 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.600 being a thing. Look us up on social media. All 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:19.200 the hotspots and check out our Patreon at verbolers dot com. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.880 Today's guest Matt Brown, a longtime friend of the show, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.360 never actually a guest on the show, so I wanted 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.720 to change that because he's doing great work with his 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.200 Extra Points Newsletter, an awesome source of information if you're 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.520 just interested in how the college football sausage is made, 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.680 top quality work, and he's just done some really detailed 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.040 reporting now that I want to discuss with them in 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.640 the wake of that EA Sports announcement about the game 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.720 coming back, So we're going to chat a little bit 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.400 about that. We'll wade a little bit into the territory 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.440 about name, image and likeness, the stuff that we discussed 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.560 with Andy Staples on Tuesday, and we're also going to 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.720 talk about of the quirks of the twenty twenty season, 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.120 maybe some of the lessons learned, and what we expect 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.360 to see as an output of a really weird college 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.679 football year. Without further ado, let's welcome Matt Brown of 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.320 the show, all right, joining me now. It is the 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.440 esteemed author of the Extra Points Newsletter, which you could 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.320 find at extra points mb dot com. He's also got 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.320 a new podcast called Going for two what he does 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.679 with our friend Brian Fisher. It's Matt Brown. Welcome to 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.240 the show. I don't, Matt, have we ever had you 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:29.840 on the show? 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.200 We haven't. I was just thinking about this. This was 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.120 would have been on my career bucket list. I think 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.000 when I started doing this all these years ago, right, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.000 it was what a god for us to call doing 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.280 the Tonight show if you were a college football blogger. 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.959 I'm glad to finally make my appearance. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.160 Well, it's great to have you. We've been friends for 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.519 a long time, all the way back to the days 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:52.959 when you were working for Espnation and I know, doing 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:58.320 Ohio State content and other stuff for SBN. What is 0:02:58.440 --> 0:02:59.160 Extra Points? 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.440 Sure? So? Extra Points is a newsletter that tries to 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.760 really dig into all the stuff that shapes college athletics 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.880 that we don't really see on the field. We talk 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.480 about college sports, and for good reason, we spend a 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.720 lot of time talking about the sports part and maybe 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.960 not as much the college side. So this is a 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.240 newsletter that talks about things like higher education policy and 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.519 how athletic department finance budgets work, and how changing student 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.720 demographic patterns impact the ability for universities to make athletic 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.320 investments and all of these things that you only think 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.040 about a whole lot, but it really does have a 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.400 pretty big impact about what schools are actually good at. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.160 Sports publishes four days a week and doing that now 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:41.240 for almost two years. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:48.040 With that being said, we started talking recently about the 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.320 news that came out, obviously about the video game, because 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.120 this is what we do now, the only important news, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.760 the only important news. It came out that Notre Dame 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:00.600 said they don't want to be part part of the game, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.960 at least not until the whole NIL legislation gets sorted out. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.520 So we did a show on Monday. I talked Andy 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.760 Staples about NIL. We got his hot takes on where 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:12.880 things are headed in college football with respect to name, 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.760 image and likeness. But I wanted to bring Mat on 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:20.160 because we both feel like this got a bit misconstrued 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.600 by what Notre Dame bant. A lot of people took 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.200 it as Notre Dame doesn't want to be part of 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.320 the game. They're cutting off their nose despite their face. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.719 I think you and I, if I understand, correctly, see 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.520 things much much differently. Matt. Is that correct? 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.039 Yeah? I think that is correct. For one I think 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.479 it's premature for anybody to say at this point, at 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.839 least for an FBS program, but they're not going to 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.680 be in the game. The game isn't going to come 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.760 out for two more years. There's a long time to 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.000 get from A to B. But what Notre Dame said 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:52.800 wasn't that they didn't want to be in the football game, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.320 was that they didn't want to participate in the game 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.880 unless there was a mechanism to directly compensate the players 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:00.839 that were going to be in the game. And there's 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.680 a lot of time for that to happen. And I 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.320 would imagine that Andy agreed here, but I would I 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.719 would even I would be very surprised if when this 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.039 game eventually comes out that current athletes likenesses are not used. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.720 There's given how quickly and how dramatically name image of 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.000 likeness legislation is changing. I would I alould feel very confident 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:24.640 in the next eighteen months that there's going to be 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.039 a mechanism for that to happen. And so now a 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.560 Notre Dame gets to say they're not really giving anything 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.120 up by saying that they're not wanting to participate now, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.719 but they get to one look like a real player's 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.400 program that they're willing to leave money on the table 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.520 to advocate for the financial interests of their athletes, and 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.599 they also get to put a little bit of extra 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.120 political pressure because if they can kind of sneak out 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.880 in the world, we'd like to be a part of 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.839 this game. If X Y and Z happens, well, that 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.560 makes it much easier for Notre Dame fans to start 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.560 sending emails and letters asking well, why is an X, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.479 Y and Z happening? And if that means that they 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.359 start putting a little bit of pressure on May maybe 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.200 indianas two senators, then all the better here for one 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.200 hundred Dame, and all the better for consumers of this 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:07.840 video game. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.600 It is sort of a parlor trick to drum up 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.279 some pr support, and I think too, as you said, rightly, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.240 make it look like a bit of a player's program. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.320 I think it's a wise move. I want to harken 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:26.599 back though, to your last point about putting pressure on Congressman. Certainly, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.599 video games as a whole have been part of a 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.600 larger societal conversation for years. That's not anything new. I 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.000 can't think of any though that have cracked the sports 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.000 realm like this one, Like you've got members of Congress 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:47.040 openly talking about legislation specifically to get the video game 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.080 back up and running. It seems like we've entered do 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.960 territory with this thing where the game maybe kickstarted the 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.120 whole debate. The demise of the game, pissed off enough 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.920 people that they wanted it back and started talking about this, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.720 and now we're almost at the point where the game 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.520 is the vehicle by which we're going to usher in 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:12.040 this new era of nil and perhaps video gaming at large. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.920 It's it's so funny. I think you're You're absolutely right, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.960 and I think there's this huge gap in understanding between 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.880 the individuals that are really making these decisions and the consumers, Like, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.800 you know, even among my audience and a lot of 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.840 my readers are you know, athletic directors and conference commissioners 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.680 and people who work in this industry along with regular fans. 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.600 The demand when I write anyone, when I when I 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.080 write about name image of likeness, which I've done often, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.560 the number one of the feedback I get from any 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.280 fan is how does this impact the video game? Or great? 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:47.720 You know, you can talk to me about the FTC 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:49.560 and you can get in the weeds about all this 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.520 antitrust stuff, but just tell me what it means for 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.040 the video game. And it's it's interesting. I feel like 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.520 some senate staffers aired and not letting their bosses know. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.240 Like list, if you come out in favor of a 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.400 group licensing group license mechanism, there's not a single voter 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.120 that's going to punish you. There's not a single conservative 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.520 voter that's going to think, if we have a group 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.760 license that's giving too much to athletes, I'm going to 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.280 vote for another person. But it's the easiest layup in 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.760 the world because if you are like twenty three to forty, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.960 this college video game was a transformational experience in your 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.000 college football fandom. This is what connected you to all 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.600 these different schools. It's what made you fall in love 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.240 with your PlayStation. And there's an enormous rush to bring 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.000 that back. I think it would be the biggest, the 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.160 biggest layoup. And it is funny. Sometimes really significant political 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.920 changes happen for maybe more superficial reasons, and it's entirely 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.960 possible that we'll look back and realize that what really 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.960 got the engine going, and some of these really big 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.160 changes in how we define amateurism is in a large 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.440 part because people want to bring Dynasty Mode back. 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.760 It's crazy. It is crazy. Who doesn't want Dynasty Mode back. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.560 It's it's just been cool to see, of all things, 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:08.000 the video game kind of driving the ship here. I 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.880 feel like I've buried a little bit of the lead 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.760 because when we exchanged emails and texts earlier, you mentioned 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.040 the quote gazillion Foyer requests that you had been a 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.920 part of. We have to talk about the Foyer requests. 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.600 I feel like I feel like when I go through 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.360 and produce this show, we're going to have to put 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.920 Foyer Requests somewhere in the title or at least in 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.200 the body the description of the episode, because people care 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.840 about that stuff, and you did send out a gazillion 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.880 of them. Why did you send out a gazillion of them? 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.800 What are you trying to accomplish? 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.440 Sure? So, I love the Freedom of Information Act, and 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.360 I love all of the various versions of that that 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.760 apply to every other state, because this is a great 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.520 way to find out information when a school doesn't necessarily 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.840 want to tell you right. This is the tool that 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.520 we use so we can look up coaching contracts and 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.680 we can figure out what their buyouts are going to be, 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.120 and you can get an idea for what you know. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.520 Boosters and other third parties are telling athletic directors or 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.720 coaches in a way that you can't necessarily tease that 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.199 out from a press conference, especially over the last year 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.319 when we haven't had a chance to do as many 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.880 press conferences or have that same level of access. So 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.600 this has been a pretty consistent reporting tool for me 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.320 when I run Extra Points. And as soon as that 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.719 video game came out, I was really cure about the 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.920 announcement of the new video game coming Back. I was 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.800 I was curious. Well, you know, in the initial story 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.840 with ESPN, the EA Sports mentioned that they have over 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.880 one hundred teams signed up. Well, that's not one hundred 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.120 and thirty. So clearly there's some team, there's some schools 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.200 here that are aware of this video game and didn't 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.880 immediately sign up. And there's a lot of other schools 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.880 that would like to be in this video game and 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.120 weren't mentioned in this in this press release. You know, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.240 if you go back, I think it was like two 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.600 thousand and seven or so, there were SCS teams in 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.280 the game. You know, I don't think all of them. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:57.880 I don't think the Patriot League was in it, but 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.600 there were a lot of other scs insteaditutions. And you 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.400 can still find people who are still playing the original 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.120 PlayStation too, so they can keep playing as like Morgan 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.960 State or Portland State or something. Right, So I filed 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.760 an open records request for about one hundred and sixty 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:14.960 FBS and FCS institution. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:16.080 How long did that take? 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.080 You know, normally, if you'd asked me like two years ago, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.920 it would have taken me a week. But I've built 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.880 a gigantic spreadsheet and my old business partner, Daniel little Bit, 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.199 helped me with this. He's over at Sportico now that 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:33.000 has the correct records keeper for every single FBS institution, 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.320 so I could now BC see them and send out 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.120 really big batches relatively quickly. You know. It's funny. It 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:41.839 still took me a couple of hours because a lot 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.800 of schools have individual forms you have to fill out, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.200 but I got every public school that I'm allowed to 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.839 foil them for FBS and FCS. Try to understand who's 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.480 in the game, and if they're not in the game, 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.640 are they communicating why they're not in the game, and 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.640 what some of those communications are like. And you know 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.000 already I found out I got something back from Murray State, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.080 which sent me a communication from the CLC, which is 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.000 the licensing organization that works with most colleges, not everybody, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.319 that said, hey, as of right now, you know a 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.520 lot of people are asking about it. We're not planning 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.040 on including SCS programs at launch. We might include them 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.760 later on, So you know, given to this as EA, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.960 don't be surprised if there's a DLC package a couple 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.640 of months after launch, so you could play with your 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.120 HBCUs and your Patriot League and your Missouri Valley teams. 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.000 And then I also found communications from some other institutions 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.880 that either expressed reservations or did not immediately jump on board, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.600 like Notre Dame. So I honestly would not be surprised 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.240 if in the next week or two we saw an 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.400 institution give a similar statement to the press that under 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.120 Dame did, saying that we're not going to participate unless X, Y, 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.880 or Z happen. Some of those are going to be 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.160 really big names like Notre Dame. Some of them might 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.760 not be, because I've seen documents to suggest that there 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.280 are some Mountain West in common Diference USA teams that 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.920 are not excuse me, not Conference American Athletic Association teams 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:06.400 that are not immediately on board. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:12.120 You mentioned before two years for the game. Where does 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.000 that two years number come from. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.400 Well, it's come from a couple of places. One, this 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.679 is the timeline that the CLC itself is telling member 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.360 institutions right that they're again that there's this licensing organization. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.960 I have the actual email that I've written about here 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.280 at extra points saying, look, we know that some fans 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.600 are going to expect that we're just going to reskin 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.959 the NCAA twenty fourteen game and rush this thing out 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.600 in a couple of months, But that was multiple console 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.560 cycles ago. Like the code isn't just a copy and 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.600 paste job. That development team has been they're not with 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.439 the company anymore, or they've been moved on to other projects. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.760 We want to do this right, and that's going to 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.440 require some substantial changes. So I want to say the 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.079 exact language in the CLC email was it may take 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.000 several years for this to come out. Even EA Sports 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.920 right after that teaser was saying like this, you know 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.080 this is going to take a little while, So my 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.640 expectation is that you'll probably see some kind of teaser 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.880 or some additional information about this game, maybe in next 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.720 year's you know, you know, major consumer electronics exposed. But 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.480 I would not expect to be able to sit down 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.640 with my PlayStation and play it probably until twenty twenty three. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.880 And you know, we've talked about it on the show 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.000 for a while. They definitely got in that cycle where 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.600 they were kind of remaking the older version of the game. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.000 The difference between twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen, let's say, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.160 wasn't that drastic. A couple tweaks here and there they 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.960 made it better, but ultimately it was kind of the 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.440 same deal. But you're right, like we have now pretty 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.280 much skipped an entire generation of consoles. There was never 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.960 a version made for the PS four, and with the 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:01.240 PS five now being more and more available, you would 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.120 assume that they're going to have to do a complete 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.200 step change in order to make the thing better. What 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.960 I'm curious to see, and I tend to agree with 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.400 you that we're going to see players in the game, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.880 But a lot has changed on the EA side over 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.840 the course of time, where the model has geared a 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.000 lot more towards micro transactions. What does that mean? You 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.600 can buy stuff in the game, and they've done that 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.200 really well with Madden, They've done that really well with FIFA. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.200 I think there was an old Ultimate Team mode, I 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.000 know it was there in the twenty fourteen version of 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.560 the game, where they could probably use that in a 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.640 newer version and they could steer more into that micro 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.000 transaction thing to make money, because let's face it, when 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.400 this game drops, there's going to be a gazillion people 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.080 that want to buy it. It's going to be one 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.480 of their top selling titles almost instantly. So I guess 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:58.240 I'm just curious the balance between what does it mean 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.560 for them to have current players in the game versus 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.240 what does it mean to just have a game where 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.080 people can go in there, play it again for the 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.280 first time in a in a eternity, and start buying 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:11.480 stuff and making them money. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.320 It is. It's such a weird dynamic because I feel 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:20.840 like the college football game had a really different experience 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.960 if you're playing it on a one player mode. You know, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:24.960 I think we've taken this for granted because it's been 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.240 so many years since we've had this game. But online 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.280 gaming for consoles wasn't nearly as mature of an industry 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.040 back in twenty thirteen times, oh. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.760 My god, not even close as is now. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.160 No, Like I remember when I had the Xbox three sixty, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.920 I had to buy like an external USB dongle to 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.440 play online, and most a lot of games didn't play 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.120 online at all. Like what made the NCAABLELIEU football franchise 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.800 so attractive and so men's amerizing you for me, and 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.680 I think for you, and I think for most people 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.400 was the Dynasty mode. It was this idea to go 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.520 pick you know, take Middle Tennessee State, or take Acron, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.080 or take some imported team that we made up and 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.879 guide them from essentially a Division two program to a powerhouse. 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.159 And that's a more solo experience. Now, I think you 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.080 can customize that experience with micro transactions. Like I mean, 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.239 they obviously can't do this because they need to have 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.600 some school licenses, but you can imagine a world where 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.840 it's like, well, I'm trying to recruit this player, spend 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.959 five ninety nine to drop a bag and make it 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.480 more likely to bring that player. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.280 On, right, Well, what you see in. 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.080 Micro transactions, I think with both EA and with two 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.840 K I play NBA two K. A lot is that 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.359 you use those micro transactions to skip ahead in that 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.080 grinding process. So if you're doing like a solo player 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.800 campaign like they used to have for EA Sports, maybe 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.160 you or for at college football, maybe you can drop 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.560 a little bit of money to automate some of those 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.560 practice sessions or to boost your characters attributes a little 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.719 bit or I don't know. I don't even really know 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.520 if we're going to have an Ultimate Team mode in 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.960 the same way you have for the other EA Sports games, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.720 or even if it does exist, if it would be 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.120 as popular. I do think it's a pretty safe assumption though, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.000 that is going to try and to find ways for 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.640 you to spend money beyond the seventy bucks. Oh yeah, 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:09.600 to actually get the game. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.719 Yeah. Well there, Dan and I talked about this before 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.200 they could somehow merge the Ultimate Team with the Dynasty Mode, 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.360 Because you're right, the Dynasty Mode that was like a 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.679 seminal moment for a lot of us when that became 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.320 a thing, certainly throughout college for me. I mean, that 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.920 was what we did when we weren't you out and 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.880 about the town. So it strikes me as something that's important, 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.520 and I think if they're going to try and retain 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:39.640 the luster of the game, they need to make sure 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.720 that they incorporate that. But again, you know, the bigger 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:47.119 question remains the players in the game. Are they actually 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.320 going to have real likenesses? Are they not? I feel 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.560 like that's a huge selling point for a lot of people, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:53.640 though I do think if they put a game out 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.720 tomorrow and they didn't have that, people would still play 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.359 it just to kind of get back in the swing 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.880 of things. I guess the biggest barrier to entry then 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.719 is that licensing component that you mentioned earlier, And there 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.240 are bills in Congress now, some have group licensing, some don't. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.719 What do you see as the eventual future state that 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.760 gets this deal done. How do they structure it for 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.800 something like college football, which is not like the NFLPA, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.960 where you've got a players association that bargains on behalf 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.040 of the players, at least not yet. How does this 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:29.880 eventually happen when it happens. 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.280 It's a really good question, and I've talked to a 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.520 couple of antitrust experts who actually who have suggested that, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.080 you know, maybe you really can't do this without a union, 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:44.160 and that is that is the reason why NCAA administrators 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.840 and school administrators right now have been so reticent to 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.720 embrace group licensing because what they would the name image 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.320 like is the idea of an athlete making a couple 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.879 hundred bucks for an autograph session or from selling some 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:00.960 Instagram ads. That really doesn't bother most athletic directors. Some 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.959 coaches might complain about it, because coaches complained about literally everything, 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.919 but that alone is not a existential threat. But the 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.080 idea that that might open the door for codifying an 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:17.440 employee employer relationship, that's the existential threat. And I believe 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.560 the a couple months ago when they were first talking 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.960 about this, Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman was saying like, 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.440 this is why we don't think we can do group licensing. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.400 The entity that can force them to do it as Congress, 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.760 And I mean, there was actually another name image likeness 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.240 bill introduced today from a Senator from Kansas that was 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.000