Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal. I'm that for me. I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,
Speaker 1: I want to be happy. You want to be happy
Speaker 1: for dake Edo State? Is that woo woom? And Dan
Speaker 1: and Tye.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the solid verbal. Boys and girls. My
Speaker 2: name is ty hilden Brandton. Joined me as always, still
Speaker 2: way over there and beautiful and sunny in southern California.
Speaker 1: The one and only Dan Rubinstein, Sir, how you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm probably as tan right now as I was when
Speaker 1: I came home from my honeymoon tie, which is to say,
Speaker 1: feeling pretty good. I'm using a lot of alo Vera
Speaker 1: because you know, got to keep that skin skin looking
Speaker 1: great after getting so much sun. But Ty, I'm wonderful.
Speaker 1: How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, Dan, I am doing well. It's good
Speaker 2: to be with you once more. Today we are going
Speaker 2: to be going through the final chapter of our First
Speaker 2: Place Losers series that we've been running now for a
Speaker 2: couple episodes. We're doing two thousand and what fifteen through
Speaker 2: two thousand and nineteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the twenty fifteen seasons through the twenty nineteen seasons,
Speaker 1: So technically speaking, it's the twenty sixteen College Football Playoff
Speaker 1: National Championship runner up through the twenty twenty runner up.
Speaker 1: Is my math correct correct? I believe that's it?
Speaker 2: Okay, Thank you so much for downloading the show, for
Speaker 2: being part of the madness with us. Hope you are
Speaker 2: doing well. Hope you're washing your hands. Hope you haven't
Speaker 2: developed any kind of ominous cough or fever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for downloading.
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Speaker 2: listen to the show. Subscribe to the show, tell others
Speaker 2: about the show. You can also follow along. We've been
Speaker 2: doing a lot more on Instagram lately thanks to your handiwork, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, throw us a follow on the gram Ty, we're
Speaker 1: churning out content. I'm waiting for you to follow the
Speaker 1: show here hashtag I follow the show. I know you do.
Speaker 1: I posted a picture of your hair. That's that's. If
Speaker 1: that's not reason enough to follow us on Instagram, I
Speaker 1: don't know what we're even doing. There are constant updates
Speaker 1: on Tie's air.
Speaker 2: You hit it best like two weeks ago, and you
Speaker 2: said that my hair was assuming a leadership position.
Speaker 1: I think that's.
Speaker 2: Absolutely I think that's where we're at with things. I
Speaker 2: saw some other folks talk about it looking like a helmet.
Speaker 2: It is kind of a helmet. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Where else can you find us?
Speaker 2: Twitter? Facebook, YouTube? Yeah, YouTube. Also going out to our
Speaker 2: website at solidverbal dot com and subscribe to the newsletter.
Speaker 2: It's going to be the best way moving forward to
Speaker 2: stay in touch with what we're doing as a show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, movingpieces, solidverbal dot com, the newsletter, all those various
Speaker 1: places we're adding. We're just adding pieces of content ty
Speaker 1: as we hopefully I think we're about one hundred days
Speaker 1: away from the alleged start to the twenty twenty seasons.
Speaker 1: So we are ramping up as schools and this is
Speaker 1: a nice little transition. Hopefully prove right here, thank you
Speaker 1: very much. As schools themselves ramp up and get we
Speaker 1: get some campus action, voluntary workouts. Hopefully schools are taking
Speaker 1: all necessary steps to put athletes in the safest possible
Speaker 1: position as they returned to campus. I saw Clemson is
Speaker 1: June eighth, the pact. Whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa. Yeah, Okay, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm getting ahead of mind, surely, you jest, we have.
Speaker 2: Much you Yeah, So let's start here at the top.
Speaker 2: I think the headliner for the moment we can get
Speaker 2: into schools and conferences allowing athletes back on campuses or
Speaker 2: to take part in voluntary workouts. But the news is
Speaker 2: that this is normally the time when TV networks would
Speaker 2: reveal start times for the first three weeks of the season.
Speaker 2: Andy Staples, our friend from The Athletic, noted that, gasp,
Speaker 2: they're not doing that. They elected not to, They're delaying
Speaker 2: that announcement. He goes into to great detail about why
Speaker 2: you shouldn't read that much into it. I think the
Speaker 2: common sense angle is, obviously, dude, we're in a pandemic.
Speaker 2: A lot remains to be seen. We should find out
Speaker 2: more in the coming days and weeks, but hold your
Speaker 2: horses for now. Just because you don't see those times
Speaker 2: out there doesn't mean there's not a season. It just
Speaker 2: means networks are trying to figure out how all this
Speaker 2: piece is together.
Speaker 1: Correct, right. They don't want to start taking steps too
Speaker 1: quickly before knowing what states are doing, what schools are doing,
Speaker 1: what stadiums are doing. They're just sort of being as
Speaker 1: patient as possible, which I think is probably the best
Speaker 1: in terms of due diligence.
Speaker 2: Now onto more specifics. Clemson has announced that it's bringing
Speaker 2: back athletes on June the eighth. We have the Pac
Speaker 2: twelve jumping in and saying that they're going to allow
Speaker 2: players back for voluntary workouts as of June the fifteenth,
Speaker 2: and Oklahoma going to let its players back on July
Speaker 2: the first. Interestingly enough, this may put Oklahoma about a
Speaker 2: month behind some other Power five programs who are allowing
Speaker 2: players on campus earlier for voluntary workouts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it should be noted Lincoln Riley has long
Speaker 1: been a proponent of let's wait as long as we
Speaker 1: possibly can to arm ourselves with the most possible information
Speaker 1: and safety precautions, and so he has been outspoken about that.
Speaker 1: And it's not necessarily putting them behind, I think in
Speaker 1: any sort of extra meaningful way. More so that like
Speaker 1: people are getting back to campus to work out and condition,
Speaker 1: it's not school starting football practice. So Oklahoma players are
Speaker 1: able to go out on their own and condition wherever
Speaker 1: they may be, just not on campus. So yes, Oklahoma
Speaker 1: as a university, as an athletic department, is saying, okay,
Speaker 1: let's take as much time as we can to figure
Speaker 1: out how we're doing this and what the world looks like.
Speaker 1: So I don't think Oklahoma players are going to be
Speaker 1: any further behind. And as it relates to the PAC twelve,
Speaker 1: I believe word is that California is, as of the
Speaker 1: time we're recording this close to reopening places like gyms,
Speaker 1: and that is something that Commissioner Larry Scott has pointed
Speaker 1: to us. When that happens, that's a very good indicator
Speaker 1: about the direction we're going to go timing wise. So
Speaker 1: things seem to be progressing in that direction in my
Speaker 1: home state and the state in which I'm recording this
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: And I think that PAC twelve news bullet is very
Speaker 2: very telling if you are if you are hopeful for
Speaker 2: a college football season. The PAC twelve was a conference
Speaker 2: I know you and I were watching very very closely
Speaker 2: because California has taken aggressive measures. Oregon and Washington had
Speaker 2: entered at some point into a bit of a pact
Speaker 2: with California to kind of do a joint reopening and
Speaker 2: align some of their policies, and it seemed for a
Speaker 2: while as if they could be the fly in the ointment.
Speaker 2: You know, again, everyone's heart is in the right place here,
Speaker 2: But just how would that perhaps Hamper plans to move
Speaker 2: forward with a college football season now, If we're at
Speaker 2: a point where they're comfortable on June the fifteenth bringing
Speaker 2: athletes back for voluntary workouts, I think that is a
Speaker 2: good sign just from a season standpoint.
Speaker 1: So more to follow totally for sure on this front.
Speaker 2: We'll do our best to try and keep you abreast
Speaker 2: of the situation here each and every episode we'll talk
Speaker 2: about news. But yeah, that is your update for the moment.
Speaker 2: Not a lot to discuss, but some meaningful college football news.
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, should also add, if you're not paying attention to
Speaker 1: Bud Elliott over at twenty four to seven, our friend
Speaker 1: Bud keeping track of the number, the sheer number of
Speaker 1: verbal commitments.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's gonna be a tidal wave of the commitments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw Pat Fitzgerald, I believe, talk about that.
Speaker 1: But there's something like eight hundred verbal commitments and last
Speaker 1: year at this time it was three fifty something less
Speaker 1: than fifty percent. And so if you are at all
Speaker 1: a fan of recruiting of either your team or just
Speaker 1: in general, it's going to be an active you know,
Speaker 1: based on whatever happens in the college football universe, it's
Speaker 1: going to be an active next few months, to say
Speaker 1: the least, so something to take note of.
Speaker 2: So with all that stuff out of the way, Dan,
Speaker 2: let's talk about first Place Losers Part three. So, yes,
Speaker 2: we have spent parts one and two of this bit
Speaker 2: discussing all the runners up from two thousand and five
Speaker 2: through twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: The game within the game for us has been comparing
Speaker 2: those teams to one another, and more specifically to two
Speaker 2: thousand and five USC and yeah, just as like a
Speaker 2: thought experiment.
Speaker 1: Legendary loser, Yeah, like that five USC.
Speaker 2: That part has been really hard for me. I think
Speaker 2: for us, I think we struggled with it. And I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's like how the music from high
Speaker 2: school and college sticks with you forever or what, But
Speaker 2: like that USC team happen at such a formative time
Speaker 2: for us personally for many of our rebawlers out there,
Speaker 2: listening where you stand on five USC to some degree
Speaker 2: says a lot about your fandom.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Maybe that's why I've had a hard time
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: I don't know now though, as we get into part three,
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's recency bias. I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is, but I feel like we're at a
Speaker 2: point where it's unavoidable, Like nostalgia cannot possibly override the
Speaker 2: fact that at least three of the teams we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about here today we're undeniably better. You could
Speaker 2: probably make the case for all five, but at a minimum,
Speaker 2: I think three are just undeniably better.
Speaker 1: There there's simply no avoiding it. We've also reached the point,
Speaker 1: I'll go through some other context, We've reached the point
Speaker 1: where the quarterback position and offenses have evolved to such
Speaker 1: a crazy point. I don't know if you ever saw,
Speaker 1: you know, those moving graphs that update by the year
Speaker 1: you're watching, Like, okay, which quarterback has the all time
Speaker 1: best QB rating? And it starts in like nineteen fifty five,
Speaker 1: and then you suddenly see it grow year after year. Okay,
Speaker 1: now Ty Depmer has the highest ever rating. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: now okay, so and so does And you look at
Speaker 1: the top of that the efficiency marks of recent quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I feel as if the last fifteen years since that
Speaker 1: USC win between Johnny Football, Marcus Mariota, Cam Newton, I'm
Speaker 1: leaving people out of this, but Jameis Winston, Kyler, Murray Baker, Mayfield,
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, all these guys are playing our leading offenses
Speaker 1: that are so electric and so ruthlessly efficient that it
Speaker 1: almost seems like we're talking about two eras ago, and
Speaker 1: even comparing eras is difficult, and now two generations, three
Speaker 1: generations removed. I understand where you're coming from, because even
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen Jake fromm for Georgia is playing at a
Speaker 1: crazy high level given that he's a true freshman, that
Speaker 1: it's just become such a wide open sport and so
Speaker 1: quarterback friendly that it it almost becomes pretty impossible to
Speaker 1: compare with how great offenses have gotten.
Speaker 2: So let's start here with twenty fifteen Clemson. What's interesting
Speaker 2: about this show, and you've had we had one with
Speaker 2: Oregon where we had Oregon twice in one episode, and
Speaker 2: we're going to have it multiple times here with part three,
Speaker 2: because we've got Clemson twice, we've got Alabama twice, and
Speaker 2: we've got Georgia.
Speaker 1: In the middle.
Speaker 2: Let's start with twenty fifteen Clemson. They finished the year
Speaker 2: fourteen and one, that one, of course, being a forty
Speaker 2: five to forty loss in Glendale in the National Championship
Speaker 2: game to the Alabama Crimson Tide. This is a very
Speaker 2: good team, very good football team. Obviously, they made it
Speaker 2: to the National Championship. Two things jump out at me though,
Speaker 2: when I go back and look at it first. And
Speaker 2: this is also going to be a recurring theme.
Speaker 1: Dan, Yeah, My.
Speaker 2: Entire opinion of this Clemson team I think was shaped
Speaker 2: by them beating Notre Dame in a try topical storm
Speaker 2: first week of months Soon, sir, This was the mons
Speaker 2: sooon game to start all monds Soon games. Clemson, if
Speaker 2: I remember correctly, jumped out to an early lead. Notre
Speaker 2: Dame came back late. They had a real shot. I
Speaker 2: was at a wedding at the time. We got back
Speaker 2: from the reception after multiple adult libations, and I was
Speaker 2: fired up in front of a different group of friends
Speaker 2: than the group that normally would watch me watch Notre
Speaker 2: Dame football game, and it was jarring for them.
Speaker 1: It was jaring.
Speaker 2: Imagine Clemson won twenty four to twenty two. I never
Speaker 2: got over that game. I always felt like Notre Dame
Speaker 2: was good enough to win, and so I begrudgingly watched
Speaker 2: Clemson the rest of that twenty fifteen campaign.
Speaker 1: The strongest case for Clemson as a team that either
Speaker 1: I'm not even thinking about two thousand and five USC
Speaker 1: but just as it relates to the other four teams
Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about, because to me it
Speaker 1: at first glance, it seems like they're the easy answer.
Speaker 1: As for the worst of the five teams, by the numbers,
Speaker 1: they're sort of the worst by the way they lost
Speaker 1: that National Championship game where they just lost every conceivable moment,
Speaker 1: and that includes every moment that they could have tackled
Speaker 1: oj Howard and just didn't. But you know the two
Speaker 1: special teams play giving up the touchdown and then giving
Speaker 1: up that the on side kick that they allowed Alabama
Speaker 1: to recover. But really, the case for this twenty to
Speaker 1: fifteen Clemson team as being worthy and or better than
Speaker 1: any of the other first place losers is the acc
Speaker 1: was actually pretty good in twenty fifteen. They had to
Speaker 1: make their way through and this is pre Lamar Jackson Louisville,
Speaker 1: and they barely got by them. It's Kyle Bollan, I
Speaker 1: believe they get by Notre Dame and the Monsoon by two.
Speaker 1: Louisville was a three point win. Georgia Tech is pretty good.
Speaker 1: Miami's pretty awful. This is the last year of al
Speaker 1: Golden and they just completely obliterate the Canes. It's fifty
Speaker 1: eight nothing. But NC State is good and they have
Speaker 1: a bit of a shootout against them. It's a total bloodbath.
Speaker 1: Against Florida State, they kind of look not great against Syracuse.
Speaker 1: That was a game late. It was a four and
Speaker 1: eight Syracuse team, I believe, and they didn't look amazing
Speaker 1: and separating from South Carolina three and nine South Carolina team,
Speaker 1: but a legit, a legit North Carolina team in the
Speaker 1: a SEC championship game that they need in off side
Speaker 1: on side, they were ruled out. North Carolina ruled off
Speaker 1: sides on an onside kick attempt at the end of
Speaker 1: the game. And then of course they beat a good
Speaker 1: Oklahoma team in the first round of the playoff by twenty.
Speaker 1: So the case is that they had to weather a
Speaker 1: stronger schedule leading up to Alabama than perhaps they had
Speaker 1: to do in previous seasons. Yeah, I so, and they did.
Speaker 1: They did, They didn't. They didn't separate a lot, but
Speaker 1: they at least were a little bit more proven. I
Speaker 1: think that's fair. The other thing that jumps out to me,
Speaker 1: just looking up and down this roster, this is a
Speaker 1: great team. It's still not as great as what the
Speaker 1: team would become over the next couple of years, not
Speaker 1: even close. There's just such a difference between being great
Speaker 1: and now as they are going into next season, as
Speaker 1: they were this past season cartoonishly loaded.
Speaker 2: Which is how I would classify it. That's sort of
Speaker 2: where we're at now. All that said, they had fourteen
Speaker 2: guys from this starting roster that got picked in the
Speaker 2: NFL draft. This was the Deshaun Watson Show.
Speaker 1: On offense.
Speaker 2: He threw for thirty five touchdowns over forty one hundred yards.
Speaker 2: He rushed for another twelve eleven hundred yards on the ground.
Speaker 2: He had Wayne Gallman going over fifteen hundred yards. He
Speaker 2: had Artavis Scott as his leading riskiver, a young Dion Caine,
Speaker 2: a young Hunter Renfro. He had Jordan Legott, Sharon Peak
Speaker 2: also on his team out wide. Defensively, very stout. You
Speaker 2: want to talk about recurring themes that's been a staple
Speaker 2: of this run by Clemson. A crazy pass rush with
Speaker 2: Kevin Dodd and Shack Losson up front. Both of them
Speaker 2: had twelve and a half sacks, which is crazy. They
Speaker 2: were just living in opposing backfields. They eventually make it
Speaker 2: to this National championship game after rolling their way through
Speaker 2: their semi final playoff matchup, and that squares them off
Speaker 2: against the Alabama Crimson tied again. This is a wild game,
Speaker 2: a fun game. Forty five to forty was your final,
Speaker 2: with Alabama grabbing a lead in the second quarter, sort
Speaker 2: of holding serve for the duration of the game before
Speaker 2: they eventually got more breathing room on a long touchdown
Speaker 2: reception by OJ Howard followed by a kick return by
Speaker 2: Kenyon Drake that sprung them gave them enough breathing room
Speaker 2: I think to kind of take this one through to completion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jake Coker like lit them up. Yeah, Jake Coker
Speaker 1: was fantastic. Derek Henry has a couple long runs, he finishes.
Speaker 1: I mean, his average on the ground wasn't great, but
Speaker 1: he has he wins moments, and you mentioned Oj Howard,
Speaker 1: we both did, and just every conceivable moment Clemson could
Speaker 1: have lost. Deshaun Watson throws a bad pick to I
Speaker 1: think it was Eddie Jackson, and Clemson just had opportunities.
Speaker 1: Alabama scores twenty four points in the fourth quarter to
Speaker 1: come back and win this game, a back and forth
Speaker 1: game late, so Clemson just not fully ready for prime
Speaker 1: time to compete with Bama for sixty minutes. So still
Speaker 1: a really really strong Clemson team, not the strongest Clemson team,
Speaker 1: maybe even not even a top two Clemson team of
Speaker 1: this era, but nonetheless a wildly successful season.
Speaker 2: The other thing here, if I can get vulgar for
Speaker 2: a second, If that's okay.
Speaker 1: Ty, let's do it. Come on.
Speaker 2: The playoff games are on New Year's Eve. This is
Speaker 2: when they tried to spin that bullshit about oh he
Speaker 2: starting a new tradition. Remember they had this song by
Speaker 2: Jimmy Kimmel is New Year's Eve will be remember this thing,
Speaker 2: of course, And it was fun. It was a fun song.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that song, but it was bullshit too. And
Speaker 2: in the end, they'll try to move our plans around
Speaker 2: to watch and be part of a playoff and Clemson
Speaker 2: and one by twenty over Oklahoma and Alabama shutout in
Speaker 2: Michigan State and it was all for not It was like,
Speaker 2: not that exciting anyway. Where does twenty fifteen Clemson stant
Speaker 2: you versus other teams that we're going to talk about well,
Speaker 2: I guess we could talk about where they rank relative
Speaker 2: to the other teams in a little bit, but where
Speaker 2: do they rank relative to five USC.
Speaker 1: Two teams who struggled with big moments on the big stage.
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna go USC here, but not by much,
Speaker 1: not by much. This was twenty fifteen, I believe was
Speaker 1: also the first year of Clemson with the offensive coordinator duo,
Speaker 1: so they were still getting used to that. It was
Speaker 1: Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott. But uh yeah, I'm going
Speaker 1: to USC. Buy a hair here, all right.
Speaker 2: Twenty sixteen then kind of is a natural segue because
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen Alabama was a rematch between Clemson Alabama. This
Speaker 2: time Deshaun Watson got the better of the Crimson Tide.
Speaker 2: They win thirty five to thirty one. This game was
Speaker 2: played in Tampa. Yet another year of semi final games
Speaker 2: on New Year's Eve, another year of blowout. So we
Speaker 2: move our plans around Washington and Ohio State get drilled,
Speaker 2: setting up this rematch in the title game, and just
Speaker 2: sticking with Clemson for a second. The only had I
Speaker 2: have only in air quotes, only eleven guys drafted from
Speaker 2: this Clemson starting lineup but I thought they were better.
Speaker 2: They were just bets on both offense and defense. Statistically,
Speaker 2: that bears itself out, and the big statistical shift if
Speaker 2: you go back and look at it, Dan, was Clemson
Speaker 2: not being as reliant on Deshaun Watson's legs. Right, he
Speaker 2: had five hundred fewer rushing yards this season, but the
Speaker 2: legs were there in the big games. If you go back,
Speaker 2: if you plot out, yes, his rushing attempts. It was
Speaker 2: the bigger, closer games where Deshaun just decided, like, screw it,
Speaker 2: I'm taking.
Speaker 1: Over twenty plus carries against Bama in a winning effort
Speaker 1: this year in the National Championship game.
Speaker 2: The other thing here of note, it was a much
Speaker 2: more battle tested Clemson team, way more close games, seven
Speaker 2: to one score games. Even had that weird loss at
Speaker 2: home against pitt in weird week of November.
Speaker 1: Some people say incredible, Well, it was incredible, but it
Speaker 1: was just a weird spot for them to lose. Losing
Speaker 1: to Nate Peterman has not aged well, has not aged
Speaker 1: twelve for Clemson.
Speaker 2: On the Alabama side of things, Dan, we had Jalen
Speaker 2: Hurts as a true freshman, right, he won the starting job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he comes in. He relieves Blake Barnett against
Speaker 1: USC and Jerry World in Week one and just an
Speaker 1: absolute blowout over the Trojans. Certainly, USC becomes a different
Speaker 1: team with Sam Darnold a couple games later and they
Speaker 1: end up winning the Rose Bowl. So I guess in
Speaker 1: retrospect that kind of reflects well on Alabama, but different quarterback,
Speaker 1: first game of the year, whatever, Alabama. Still that was
Speaker 1: not It was not a pretty day for the Trojans.
Speaker 1: They survive ole Miss week three in a game I
Speaker 1: distinctly remember what Nick Saban looked like and sounded like
Speaker 1: after they survived the shootout against ole Miss. I think
Speaker 1: it's in Oxford, forty eight to forty three. He looks
Speaker 1: like the weight of the world has just drained his body.
Speaker 1: He looks so relieved that he was just rescued off
Speaker 1: of a sinking ship at the very last moment. But
Speaker 1: they shut out LSU, They obliterate Mississippi State. They dropped
Speaker 1: fifty on Florida in the SEC championship game, and they
Speaker 1: make efficient work I would say of Washington holding down
Speaker 1: the Husky offense to seven points in the semi final,
Speaker 1: and that was It's a Jake brown It was a
Speaker 1: very good Washington team. Obviously that makes the playoff, but
Speaker 1: it's an injured Jake Browning team, not really able to
Speaker 1: get anything going on offense. So ultimately just a hell
Speaker 1: of a year for Alabama. But going against that Clemson team,
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts is not able to do basically anything down
Speaker 1: the field with his arm. It's okay, they kind of
Speaker 1: get it done with his legs. But in terms of
Speaker 1: what the Alabama offensive murder machine would become, they weren't there.
Speaker 1: On offense. They just weren't. It was I think it
Speaker 1: was Bo Scarborough running things, taking over for Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1: He would have some amazing individual moments and runs, but
Speaker 1: the offense was still a tick or two behind what
Speaker 1: it would become under Mike Locksley and Josh Gaddis.
Speaker 2: The defense, though, was loaded who the defense was good,
Speaker 2: The defense was loaded. So this was a very talented
Speaker 2: Bama team. So you went about the offense and how
Speaker 2: it was constructed. In many ways, this was a seminal
Speaker 2: moment for that Alabama offense. This was Kiffen, This was
Speaker 2: Steve Sarkejian taking the offense in a direction that it
Speaker 2: that it hadn't been before, but frankly has been ever since.
Speaker 2: Jalen Hurts ran for almost thousand yards, which was a
Speaker 2: far cry from what we saw back in the days
Speaker 2: of Greg McElroy and AJ mccheron with the prototypical drop
Speaker 2: back guy Jim mcwa offenses. Yet, yeah, Jim, Jalen Hurts,
Speaker 2: excuse me, was certainly a different kind of quarterback than
Speaker 2: we had seen at Bama, and they found a way
Speaker 2: to use that to great effect. Overall, this was a
Speaker 2: Bama team that had nineteen of its twenty two starters
Speaker 2: drafted into the league, which is great. Everyone on the
Speaker 2: defense got drafted, with the exception of one defensive back. Okay,
Speaker 2: and like you said, they pretty much rolled everybody. They
Speaker 2: had that old miss shootout, which got a little crazy,
Speaker 2: But the level of talent in this defense was preposterous.
Speaker 2: I think you sent it over before. I mean, the
Speaker 2: defense was little. Everything here was just preposterous on the
Speaker 2: defensive side of the ball. In this game, they jump
Speaker 2: out to a fourteen point lead. Clemson just nibbles. He
Speaker 2: nibbled the way back in the fourth quarter was nuts.
Speaker 2: Clemson outscores Bama twenty one to seven, including a two
Speaker 2: yard touchdown pass to Hunter Renfro with one second left,
Speaker 2: which gave Clemson the win, gave the Sean Watson that
Speaker 2: signature victory. Jalen Hurts did of trouble against his Clemson defense,
Speaker 2: but this was still a team that I look back,
Speaker 2: I say they're better than O five USC. Just they
Speaker 2: had the defense. They had so much talent on offense.
Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't quite ramped up to where it eventually
Speaker 2: would go, but the level of talent to me was
Speaker 2: just so superior on this team that I got to
Speaker 2: give them the nod.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to agree, And especially with what if
Speaker 1: we're going to specifically compare against the USC defense of
Speaker 1: two thousand and five. The best of Jalen Hurts in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen is using his legs, and so he would
Speaker 1: have been able to move the ball that way against
Speaker 1: SC and I think you're right. I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: tough comparison with this team against the other four teams
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I still have them against ahead of
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen Clemson, even though I would happily take Deshaun
Speaker 1: Watson over Jalen Hurts running my potential national championship team.
Speaker 1: The defense is just that stupid in twenty sixteen. So
Speaker 1: it's what Reuben Foster, Ronnie Harrison, Jonathan Allen up front,
Speaker 1: both Minka Fitzpatrick and Marlon Humphrey, Anthony Averetts, Dalvin Tomlinson,
Speaker 1: Shawn Dion Hamilton, these are It's annoying that a player
Speaker 1: like I think Deron Payne was a rotation guy on
Speaker 1: this team, Eddie Jackson in the back end, DeShawn Han's
Speaker 1: a rotation guy. So I just when something is to
Speaker 1: that extreme, I'm just going to give them the nods.
Speaker 1: So a really impressive year, and this was also the year,
Speaker 1: if you remember, Lane Kiffin is sort of asked to
Speaker 1: leave after the Washington semi as he takes the Fau
Speaker 1: job and it becomes sort of a distraction, and so
Speaker 1: Sark takes over. He has one game to call in
Speaker 1: the National Championship game. Wasn't particularly a pretty day for
Speaker 1: Alabama's offense, but that's kind of one hand behind your back,
Speaker 1: so excusable on some level, but not on the winning level.
Speaker 1: Clemson takes at thirty five to thirty one and wins
Speaker 1: every moment, including that Hunter Renfro winning catch at the
Speaker 1: very end, which If your team wins on a pick play,
Speaker 1: it's part of football. If your team loses on a
Speaker 1: pick play, it's a dastardly penalty. And that's how it ended,
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 2: So moving on then to twenty seventeen. This show is
Speaker 2: nothing if not smoothly transitioning from one season to the next.
Speaker 2: And that's because all the same teams are involved, like
Speaker 2: every year. Yeah, correct, Bama gets back to this title game,
Speaker 2: this time though squaring off against a common SECFO there
Speaker 2: up against Georgia. Now, Georgia had a very interesting year.
Speaker 2: I mentioned at the top with twenty fifteen Clemson how
Speaker 2: their win over Notre Dame kind of shade in my
Speaker 2: view of them. Seventeen Oria falls into the same category.
Speaker 1: This time. It was stuck in my crawl all year
Speaker 1: because I legit felt like Notre Dame should have won
Speaker 1: that game.
Speaker 2: Second game of the year. Shot to provide context. Second
Speaker 2: game of the year, Jake From makes his first start
Speaker 2: on the road. Jake Easton got hurt, and From steps
Speaker 2: in and goes to South Bend, does just enough to win,
Speaker 2: doesn't turn the ball over. You know how we talk
Speaker 2: about Alabama and how they took Jalen Hurts and they
Speaker 2: found a way to open things up and change the
Speaker 2: offense forever more. The exact opposite happened really with Jake
Speaker 2: FROMM and Georgia, and certainly in year one he was
Speaker 2: more of that prototypical drop back dare I say game
Speaker 2: manager style. They ran the ball a lot this year.
Speaker 2: Nick Chubb, Sony Michelle DeAndre Swift that try as well.
Speaker 1: They should have, by the way, with those.
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, and they're line I mean, they're very, very
Speaker 2: good and stout up front. But collectively those three guys
Speaker 2: rushed four hundred and sixty times for almost thirty two
Speaker 2: hundred yards and thirty four touchdowns. Like there was there
Speaker 2: was no debate over what the strength of this offense was.
Speaker 1: Right right, totally.
Speaker 2: This is a team that lost on the road, believe
Speaker 2: it or not, at Auburn by a forty to seventeen
Speaker 2: score in mid November. They eventually do work their way
Speaker 2: into the College Football playoff. In that playoff game, then
Speaker 2: he double overtime to knock off Oklahoma great game, fifty
Speaker 2: four to forty eight, and then they went overtime again,
Speaker 2: this time they lose twenty six to two, twenty three
Speaker 2: to the Alabama Crimson Tide. This one was in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: We actually did interviews on Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember mccol hardman being very nice, very nice
Speaker 1: this game.
Speaker 2: This loss for Georgia was notable because this was the
Speaker 2: to A game, Right, This is where to to A
Speaker 2: cemented his legacy in college football.
Speaker 1: Yeah, TWA comes in at halftime after j Aalen hurts
Speaker 1: is ineffective in the first half. I don't believe they
Speaker 1: get on the board, right, Alabama in the first half
Speaker 1: of this game. And so Tua comes in and throws
Speaker 1: some good, throws some bad, and then throws some all
Speaker 1: time excellence in the game winning throw to Devonte Smith.
Speaker 1: So some context about this season, I think you covered
Speaker 1: a lot of it. Yes, true freshman and Jake from
Speaker 1: stepping in the fact that they're able to get to
Speaker 1: the National Championship game, the fact that they're able to
Speaker 1: win a double overtime game against Baker Mayfield and Oklahoma
Speaker 1: with that true freshman in that duel, that's just crazy impressive.
Speaker 1: Should say, it's the first team we've discussed of these
Speaker 1: first three that has not only lost a regular season
Speaker 1: game twenty fifteen clumps in twenty six Alabama both go
Speaker 1: undefeated during the regular season, they get shellacked by Auburn.
Speaker 1: This is the best Auburn defense of the modern era,
Speaker 1: the two thousand and seventeen Auburn defense. Yes. And the
Speaker 1: great news for Georgia though, is in the case to
Speaker 1: get into the National Championship game. I suppose into the playoff,
Speaker 1: they have a second chance at Auburn in the SEC
Speaker 1: Championship game, who had just dispatched Jalen Hurts and Alabama
Speaker 1: in the SEC championship in the Iron Bowl excuse me,
Speaker 1: twenty six, thirteen fourteen, something like that, And so Georgia
Speaker 1: does have that opportunity to say we have dramatically improved
Speaker 1: or gotten our act together since I think it was
Speaker 1: Week nine or ten against Auburn on the road on
Speaker 1: a neutral site. They comfortably beat Auburn, and then they
Speaker 1: get to Alabama in the National Championship Game and play
Speaker 1: an incredible first half defensively against Jalen Hurts, really demoralized
Speaker 1: the entire Alabama team with how well they have played
Speaker 1: on defense and ultimately can't beat Alabama's backup, who we
Speaker 1: now know is amazing. But if there's something working against
Speaker 1: Georgia in the case for the best of these five
Speaker 1: teams or beating two thousand and five USC. It is
Speaker 1: that against a cold quarterback who does have experience playing
Speaker 1: in this offense and blowouts over the course of this season,
Speaker 1: they eventually lose to a old backup quarterback. So the
Speaker 1: case is that they're a complete team, loaded at running
Speaker 1: back and defense, so talented, like I mentioned, but there
Speaker 1: are a couple things holding me back, and it is
Speaker 1: that that blowout loss to Auburn, and it is the
Speaker 1: fact that a backup quarterback can come in and whether
Speaker 1: an incredible I think it's Meltucker coordinating this defense and
Speaker 1: just lose the big moment at the end.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about this team is, you know, backup quarterback,
Speaker 2: he comes in, he's able to lead the offense. Had
Speaker 2: a really good campaign as a true freshman, no doubt
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh was able to utilize that rushing attack and
Speaker 1: win some games ugly but very effectively.
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, they obviously make it to the National Championship game.
Speaker 2: They had a very good chance of winning this game.
Speaker 2: They scored first in overtime. If it's not for that
Speaker 2: to a pass, maybe they win.
Speaker 1: Very good season.
Speaker 2: But you look at this roster, and you think to yourself,
Speaker 2: this was a team that was led by defense, right,
Speaker 2: this is a defensive team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is Rokwan Smith, DeAndre Walker, Lorenzo Carter, Jonathan Ledbetter.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're talented on all three levels. These are
Speaker 1: NFL players.
Speaker 2: Only two guys got drafted into the league on that defense,
Speaker 2: from Kwan Smith and DeAndre Baker. Nine of their starters
Speaker 2: were drafted from offense.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, didn't.
Speaker 2: Get much a Clinton talking about the following season or old.
Speaker 1: I'm just talking overall in general.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So a pretty good collection of talent on offense,
Speaker 2: whether they got drafted in the you know, a draft
Speaker 2: immediately following the National championship, or at some point later
Speaker 2: in their careers.
Speaker 1: DeAndre Walker was drafted.
Speaker 2: To be clear anyway, with regard to this game, the
Speaker 2: two a game, Georgia led thirteen to nothing in half.
Speaker 2: As you said, they shut out Alabama first half. They
Speaker 2: lead twenty to seven way through the third quarter, and
Speaker 2: then Tua Tua sort of takes over in the second half.
Speaker 2: He's out there just immediately takes the rings, takes charge.
Speaker 2: Those three touchdowns for Bama in one half of work.
Speaker 2: He throws one inside four minutes to tie it up.
Speaker 2: He has to weather the storm as Georgia gets the
Speaker 2: ball first an ot and kicks a field goal. They're
Speaker 2: down twenty three to twenty and then of course that
Speaker 2: perfect forty one yard strike to Devonte Smith to give
Speaker 2: Bama the walk off win, to again cement his own
Speaker 2: legacy as part of college football lore. He's obviously gone
Speaker 2: onto great things in college football and in his time
Speaker 2: at Alabama. A heartbreaking loss for the Georgia ball talks,
Speaker 2: to say the least, to.
Speaker 1: Get this close.
Speaker 2: For what it's worth, it's not like this loss knocked
Speaker 2: Georgia off its trajectory. They're still in a very very
Speaker 2: good spot. They're going to have some turnover at quarterback,
Speaker 2: and we can obviously talk about that as we get
Speaker 2: more into previews, but the team and the program are
Speaker 2: still in a very good spot. They were just so
Speaker 2: close here. This is such a stomach punch. If you
Speaker 2: were a Georgia Bulldogs fan, I.
Speaker 1: Would argue Jake from never really was the same, that
Speaker 1: he kind of regressed, and that's a coordinator thing. It's
Speaker 1: a talent thing, and it's not as if in these
Speaker 1: were good wide receivers. They didn't have a killer at
Speaker 1: receiver this year. It's what Javon Whims, Terry Godwin, McCole,
Speaker 1: Hardman hadn't fully come into his own in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: so they were led ground game wise. On offense, they
Speaker 1: just I don't think they had the complete look of
Speaker 1: a downfield a consistent downfield attack if that's what they needed. Now.
Speaker 1: Obviously they score fifty two in double overtime against Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: so they can keep up with the best offensively. It's
Speaker 1: not an actual big picture issue. But if you're comparing
Speaker 1: them against previous years and previous downfield attacks, receiving corps, quarterbacks, whatever,
Speaker 1: maybe if we're in the margins here, that's where you
Speaker 1: can knock Georgia a little bit, all right, So where.
Speaker 2: Do they stand? Where do they stand? If we're doing
Speaker 2: the comparison, not just to five USC but twenty sixteen Alabama.
Speaker 1: Bbama and yeah, yeah, So I have I have in
Speaker 1: my rankings of these five teams right now, it's sort
Speaker 1: of inn order. I have the bottom number five, twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen Clemson, number four twenty sixteen Alabama, and then number
Speaker 1: three I have twenty seventeen Georgia, so I actually have
Speaker 1: it in sort of I guess chronological or reverse chronological
Speaker 1: order thus far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree with that.
Speaker 1: I hate the blowout loss, I really do. If we're
Speaker 1: if we're nitpicking the blowout loss to Auburn. I think
Speaker 1: they even were favorites against Jared Stidham and the Tigers,
Speaker 1: and that I mean that plays perfectly into my you know,
Speaker 1: always always always take home dogs with good defenses in
Speaker 1: tough places to play, and that worked out.
Speaker 2: I think without the loss, and maybe with more of
Speaker 2: a passing component, I'm inclined to go Georgia over that
Speaker 2: five USC. But I don't think. I don't think the
Speaker 2: final version of that team very very good. Don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, I don't. I don't think I can make
Speaker 2: that case, not to you, not to myself, that they're
Speaker 2: better than our five.
Speaker 1: So see, yeah, I am. Yeah, I go back and forth.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's a good game.
Speaker 2: Final two now, twenty eighteen, again is Alabama. Alabama loses
Speaker 2: forty four to sixteen to Clemson. This is the game
Speaker 2: they played in Santa Clara. This is an awesome team.
Speaker 2: This was a death machine that we talked about all year.
Speaker 2: They killed almost everyone they played. They were number one
Speaker 2: from the start of the year all the way through
Speaker 2: until they lost that title game to Clemson. TUA through
Speaker 2: forty three touchdowns to just six interceptions and didn't run much.
Speaker 1: He didn't have to. They were trying to keep them
Speaker 1: up right, murder machine.
Speaker 2: He did run into a buzzsaw that was Clemson and
Speaker 2: Trevor will Lawrence in that title game. But I know
Speaker 2: just from looking at your rankings that you've got twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen Alabama as not just the top team of these five,
Speaker 2: but maybe just like the top team in general of
Speaker 2: all the teams that we've discussed.
Speaker 1: Well, So it brings up an interesting question. What do
Speaker 1: we consider twenty eighteen Alabama to be. Are they the
Speaker 1: twenty nine to nothing team over LSU in Baton Rouge
Speaker 1: with a largely healthy TOUA and defense, or are they
Speaker 1: beat up to he gets beat up in the I
Speaker 1: guess it's Georgia and the SEC Championship game. Beats is
Speaker 1: good enough to beat Oklahoma, but certainly doesn't look like
Speaker 1: himself because he's playing an all time great Clemson team
Speaker 1: in the in the National Championship. But if we are
Speaker 1: saying in a vacuum big picture, are we saying these
Speaker 1: teams at full health? I think we should, Okay, just
Speaker 1: making sure because we are. I'm not saying it's an excuse,
Speaker 1: but I want to if I'm comparing twenty eighteen Bama
Speaker 1: against all the other teams and against USC, I'm going
Speaker 1: to take that tact. You can adjust accordingly. If you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, or if you are Tie hilden Brent
Speaker 1: and also listening to this, I have twenty eighteen Alabama
Speaker 1: on top, and it is it's that murder machine thing.
Speaker 1: It's that incredible offense. It's a defense that while not
Speaker 1: twenty eleven or even what twenty sixteen amazing is still great,
Speaker 1: is still capital e elite, and I still feel like
Speaker 1: even with the result, the best of Alabama is probably
Speaker 1: neck and neck and not losing was forty four to
Speaker 1: sixteen against Clemson. They're not You know, this is all
Speaker 1: hypothetical because we actually know what happened when the two played,
Speaker 1: and that was Alabama wasn't able to take advantage of
Speaker 1: scoring opportunities because Clemson's defense was incredible and Trevor Lawrence
Speaker 1: was able to complete pin pin pin pinpoint passes. Over
Speaker 1: and over again to what Justin Ross and t Higgins
Speaker 1: in Alabama with a backing core that'speed up, with a
Speaker 1: secondary that's not where it had been and not where
Speaker 1: it should be, was unable to get in front of
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence Passes. So I still think the best of
Speaker 1: this Alabama team, which is to a healthy not as
Speaker 1: good as twenty eighteen Clemson, but better than twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: Bama twenty fifteen Clemson, twenty seventeen Georgia, a fully realized
Speaker 1: to a murder machine, to a murder machine. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: when they really open up the RPO game, when they
Speaker 1: really are just it's it's there. This is a bottom
Speaker 1: line team. And I don't mean bottom line they're great.
Speaker 1: I mean the literal ESPN bottom line where they are
Speaker 1: forty seven seconds into a game and they're up twenty
Speaker 1: one to nothing. That sort of murder machine where you're
Speaker 1: like somebody screwed up in Bristol in typing in the
Speaker 1: data and typing in the score or whatever some sort
Speaker 1: of feed is off, turns out not so much. That's
Speaker 1: when you have murder machine status, just like LSU had
Speaker 1: this past season.
Speaker 2: Do you find yourself bored bored at how good some
Speaker 2: of these teams were, and perhaps how we please explain
Speaker 2: well how it shaded you as just a fan. There
Speaker 2: is sort of this feeling of inevitability with regard to
Speaker 2: both Alabama and Clemson. We're going to talk about Clemson
Speaker 2: again nineteen season, right of course we are.
Speaker 1: This is Alabama Clemson with one Georgia. Yeah yeah, so.
Speaker 1: And this is not just me saying it. We've had
Speaker 1: people right in.
Speaker 2: We've read it on Twitter, We've heard other people talk
Speaker 2: about it. How the sheer dominance by these two schools
Speaker 2: have really affected how we feel as fans, that notion
Speaker 2: that it's already somewhat decided even as we start week
Speaker 2: one of the season, we perhaps come at it from
Speaker 2: a little bit of a different angle. Being so we
Speaker 2: cover everything, we try to have fun with it. But
Speaker 2: I can imagine if you're not in our shoes, if
Speaker 2: you're watching just from your own team's perspective. Maybe you're
Speaker 2: a I don't know, maybe you're a Mississippi State fan
Speaker 2: or an old missfan, and knowing that you've got these
Speaker 2: Juggernauts in the South in your own conference. It makes
Speaker 2: it an interesting proposition, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I think so. But at the same time, if we're
Speaker 1: looking back and we're looking at the roster and we're
Speaker 1: looking at what we now know about Tua, what we
Speaker 1: now know about Jerry Judy, Henry Ruggs, Jalen Wattle, Oj
Speaker 1: Howard's gone by then DeVante Smith we had seen at
Speaker 1: this point, and then a running back core of I
Speaker 1: believe it's Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs and Nase Harris, Harris
Speaker 1: Ranch as we like to call it. Sure, it's what
Speaker 1: it should have been. They just they basically hit their
Speaker 1: expectation ceiling, or maybe they surpassed reasonable expectations given what
Speaker 1: we had seen from Nick Saban and Alabama offenses in
Speaker 1: years past. But we now know that this all makes sense.
Speaker 1: It's there's some teams where you look back and you say,
Speaker 1: how did this team lead the nation in offensive efficiency
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you're like, Okay, they had this single
Speaker 1: great player or whatever. It would have been very difficult.
Speaker 1: And you can look at those Oklahoma teams with Lincoln Riley, whatever,
Speaker 1: but it would have been very difficult looking back at
Speaker 1: this Alabama team and saying they're not all that dominant.
Speaker 1: So I in terms of boredom, yes, because I like
Speaker 1: watching games that are back and forth to some level
Speaker 1: and that are interesting in the middle of the third
Speaker 1: quarter or even the middle of the second quarter. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, this Alabama team lost when they
Speaker 1: were on the biggest possible stage that counts. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's at least something and not only they lose. And
Speaker 1: the case against this Alabama team is that they got
Speaker 1: embarrassed in their biggest possible game. They got embarrassed. They
Speaker 1: need Jalen Hurts to pull out the SEC Championship game
Speaker 1: against Georgia Oklahoma. They're able to hold them down in
Speaker 1: the beginning, and the Sooners, you know, come back with
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray impressively, but don't really have a full chance
Speaker 1: in the opening round of the College Football Playoff. But
Speaker 1: to shut out LSU, to shut out a ranked Mississippi
Speaker 1: State team, to just completely lay waste and barrass everybody
Speaker 1: else they play, I'm bored by it. But I don't
Speaker 1: have to rewatch and live it right now, so I
Speaker 1: can just sit back and be impressed. And that's that's fine.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2: I put twenty eighteen Alabama at the top of this list.
Speaker 2: Same at the top of this list, not just on
Speaker 2: this episode, the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's I mean, if we're going I mean we're
Speaker 1: going into obviously twenty nineteen Clemson next, because that's all
Speaker 1: that's left. But a difference to me between two teams
Speaker 1: that just get run out of the stadium on the
Speaker 1: on the national championship stage. Alabama in twenty eighteen, here's
Speaker 1: a full list of their close calls. Georgia in the
Speaker 1: SEC Championship game. That's it, and that's the number four
Speaker 1: team in the country. They score fifty against Auburn, and
Speaker 1: then as we mentioned, I think it's it's a combined
Speaker 1: fifty plus to nothing against Mississippi State and LSU and
Speaker 1: consecutive weeks. And that's in baton rouge. So in terms
Speaker 1: of close calls during the actual regular season, that doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: Clemson in twenty nineteen has the North Carolina game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they have an acc that is pretty putrid. So
Speaker 1: that's the lean to me of two teams that got
Speaker 1: run out of the stadium on the biggest stage. I'm
Speaker 1: going with that Alabama offense at.
Speaker 2: Full health that leads us to our final team here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I back up real quick? Can I back up?
Speaker 1: Real quick, how did Clemson get to I mean, they
Speaker 1: win the national championship in twenty it's the twenty eighteen season.
Speaker 1: Who do they beat to get to Alabama in the
Speaker 1: National Championship game? Oh god, so Clemson takes down Notre
Speaker 1: Dame thirty to three. There are no losers. But if
Speaker 1: you didn't score double digit points in a playoff game, Washington,
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, Michigan State, I think during this time you're
Speaker 1: getting a little bit closer. Sorry, continue moving on. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I didn't want I know people were thinking it and
Speaker 1: they were like, well, they won't they It's a sort
Speaker 1: of a ross Rachel Notre Dame situation. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure they will. Twenty nineteen, Clemson.
Speaker 2: Killed pretty much everyone but North Carolina and Ohio State.
Speaker 2: I guess in the semi final correct, everyone else they destroyed.
Speaker 2: They finally make it to the National Championship Game. Hopefully
Speaker 2: everyone remembers the National Championship Game only happened a few
Speaker 2: months ago. They lose forty two to twenty five. They
Speaker 2: run into a buzzsaw. The buzz saw is Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2: The buzzsaw is that electric LSU offense. I don't know,
Speaker 2: if anybody beats them, it's.
Speaker 1: Not even a murder machine, it's a murder cloud. They
Speaker 1: have so much control. Yeah, ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Even if you thought there was a chance Clemson could
Speaker 2: lose that game to LSU, nobody thought they'd give up
Speaker 2: forty two points. It was a really good defense. It
Speaker 2: just it speaks volumes about how good Ls's offense was.
Speaker 2: That they were able to just straight up outscore m
Speaker 2: Clemson the way they did killed them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely killed them. I arguably the best defense in
Speaker 1: the country Clemson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I could make the case that Clemson,
Speaker 2: for all its glory, was still underappreciated because of how
Speaker 2: they rolled through a bad acc Yeah, you didn't get
Speaker 2: full credit for that.
Speaker 1: Well, we're all just we've talked about this during the
Speaker 1: season to that point. When when was Clemson must watch
Speaker 1: TV during the regular season? Exactly for the first quarter
Speaker 1: against random five and seven teams, there was not much.
Speaker 1: Everybody gather around, we think this might be the week
Speaker 1: that Clemson really gets a challenge That just didn't exist.
Speaker 2: We never really even took it seriously that they might lose.
Speaker 2: That's why that's why that UNC game was such a
Speaker 2: pleasant surprise. I'm not rooting against Clemson, but just from
Speaker 2: a TV product standpoint, Yeah, yeah, drama to have competition
Speaker 2: and drama in a Clemson game that was new news, right,
Speaker 2: It's great, absolutely, But they roll through the ACC which
Speaker 2: was down.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, it was down.
Speaker 2: They make it all the way through to that title
Speaker 2: game and they run into this buzzsaw. They'll go down
Speaker 2: in history as losing by seventeen points. This is still
Speaker 2: just a really good team, really good team, really good quarterback,
Speaker 2: great talent up and down the roster, good solid defense.
Speaker 2: They're to me second behind twenty eighteen Alabama. If we're
Speaker 2: ranking these teams, they're definitely in front of five USC.
Speaker 1: A couple things, Ty, I think you're correct with everything.
Speaker 1: Should also point out that Ohio State was also a
Speaker 1: team that scored fewer than double digits because they lost
Speaker 1: thirty one nothing to Clemson on December thirty first, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: So I didn't want I didn't want to have an
Speaker 1: own mission there of all those of that roundup of
Speaker 1: the non double ditch. Second of all, you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: I have Clemson behind the twenty nineteen Clemson behind twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen Alabama in terms of these five teams. But I
Speaker 1: think they beat USC just because they're a more complete
Speaker 1: team and Trevor Lawrence offers something dynamic that would be
Speaker 1: hard for any team at any point in history to handle.
Speaker 1: I'm also going to hear that, and we'll hear whatever
Speaker 1: some reaction like, well, they call that a fumble. Ohio State,
Speaker 1: it's a national championship game and they're built to better
Speaker 1: take down LSU. Perhaps. No, No, I'm going to say
Speaker 1: I'm going to say no on that because Ohio State
Speaker 1: had opportunities. Ohio State had opportunities against Clemson. They go
Speaker 1: up sixteen to nothing, and their next four drives, three
Speaker 1: of which they go three and out, all four of
Speaker 1: they punt, and then the fifth they throw an interception.
Speaker 1: They have an opportunity at the end of the game
Speaker 1: and they throw an interception. So we're not talking about
Speaker 1: a back and forth. We're not talking about fully maximizing
Speaker 1: potential on all offense against a Clemson team never really
Speaker 1: going through stretches of struggle. We're talking about an Ohio
Speaker 1: State team that made a ton of mistakes. And if
Speaker 1: Clemson is a team that wins by the narrowest of margins,
Speaker 1: able to beat them on an interception to seal things
Speaker 1: at the very end of the game and then get
Speaker 1: run out of the stadium by the LSU Murder Cloud.
Speaker 1: I'm not believing in Ohio State being better suited to
Speaker 1: compete with the Cloud. I'm just not there. So with
Speaker 1: that out of the way, the twenty nineteen Clemson team
Speaker 1: once they got North Carolina, and that's scare and allowing
Speaker 1: North Carolina to milk the clock and sit on the ball.
Speaker 1: Once they got that out of their system and they
Speaker 1: get that last second two point conversion stop to beat
Speaker 1: the tar Heels, they were incredible. Yeah, Travis Etn is
Speaker 1: one of the joys that I've personally had watching him
Speaker 1: since the onset of our show in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: since we started this program, watching Travis Etn in the
Speaker 1: open field with you know, running the score up to
Speaker 1: such a crazy degree that he's just not playing fourth quarters,
Speaker 1: that he is making legitimately fast players look slow in
Speaker 1: his wake. He is one of the joys. And obviously
Speaker 1: the emergence of Clemson as wide receiver, you with all
Speaker 1: these guys they put into the league, with Trevor Lawrence
Speaker 1: coming in as the most heralded quarterback of whatever we
Speaker 1: can remember as a recruit and surpassing those expectations. It's
Speaker 1: been just an amazing watch for me. So I have
Speaker 1: them nipping on the heels of twenty eighteen Alabama. But still,
Speaker 1: if we're on the margins, that's where I'm that's where
Speaker 1: I'm reserving my judgment.
Speaker 2: This is just such a really good team.
Speaker 1: It's so good. I mean, it's impossible to parse. It
Speaker 1: really is impossible. It's so hard.
Speaker 2: And I sat down in the laboratory shortly before hitting
Speaker 2: record trying to suss out where I came down on
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen Clemson. And part of this is made harder
Speaker 2: by the fact that it's just so recent. I don't
Speaker 2: have the benefit of looking back five years in that
Speaker 2: perspective comparing them to teams that came out after, and
Speaker 2: so you know, maybe with some age they will grow
Speaker 2: even fonder in my mind, But at least as it
Speaker 2: stands now, it's like part of me can't believe they lost.
Speaker 1: I still can't believe that they lost.
Speaker 2: I can believe the kind of season Joe Burrow had
Speaker 2: and that instant transformation that we saw at LSU that
Speaker 2: will go down in college football history. Is perhaps the
Speaker 2: greatest season of all time from an offensive standpoint, But
Speaker 2: this is still such a dominant Clemson squad. The fact
Speaker 2: that they lost in the manner that they did it
Speaker 2: highlights how good LSU was, and it still seems a
Speaker 2: little surreal to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the cases here are twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: Clemson wasn't fully there. They lose to an Alabama team
Speaker 1: with Heisman Trophy winner, with just a ton of talent,
Speaker 1: and even like the twenty sixteen Alabama team is great
Speaker 1: and in many years they're winning the national championship, and
Speaker 1: they run into a once in a lifetime twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: Deshaun Watson led Clemson team and then Georgia that in
Speaker 1: a lot of years they're good enough to win the
Speaker 1: national championship. They run into a once in a lifetime
Speaker 1: backup quarterback star and lose on a once in a
Speaker 1: lifetime maybe the best and most dramatically successful pass of
Speaker 1: all time. I mean, just we're talking about thin margins,
Speaker 1: where like these teams aren't good enough in most years
Speaker 1: to hold up the whatever the college football trophy is called,
Speaker 1: the Hancock Trophy, I don't know what it's called, and
Speaker 1: then Clemson just with how complete they are on both
Speaker 1: sides of all, replacing what they did on the defensive
Speaker 1: line from twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen and not missing
Speaker 1: a beat at all, in fact, with Isaiah Simmons becoming
Speaker 1: even more creative with how they move players around their defense,
Speaker 1: and they run into the best college football offense of
Speaker 1: all time, yeah, the best. Yeah. And so there's just
Speaker 1: a certain degree of and it's not even losing moments.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is it's just plain old dumb luck, that's
Speaker 1: all it is. No Jamar Chase two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: one yards wins the Bolittnikov out of nowhere, out of
Speaker 1: friggin nowhere. Joe Burrow has an encouraging season in twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen and twenty eighteen, and then in twenty nineteen just
Speaker 1: obliterates everything. Clyde Edwards Hilaire, Oh, I see he's a
Speaker 1: nice back turns into what are we supposed to do
Speaker 1: with this guy? What the hell are we supposed to
Speaker 1: do with Clyde? And so sometimes it's just bad friggin' luck.
Speaker 2: Bad friggin' luck. All right, let's rank these out here
Speaker 2: and call it a day. I've got I think the
Speaker 2: same ranking as you, twenty eighteen Alabama, twenty nineteen Clemson,
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen Georgia, twenty sixteen Alabama, and twenty fifteen Clemson.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I have, and I think there's a
Speaker 1: good case for each of these teams. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go with Georgia having the worst case as for beating
Speaker 1: two thousand and five USC, but still a pretty damn
Speaker 1: good case. Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, Well that does it for our first place losers.
Speaker 2: Bit here three parts. Go back and listen to the
Speaker 2: first two. If you haven't already, you can go on
Speaker 2: out to our website at soliverbal dot com and find
Speaker 2: all of our old stuff, all over old episodes. If
Speaker 2: you want to listen back, don't forget to subscribe and
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Speaker 1: You can find the show.
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Speaker 2: And I forgot to mention that we've got a teamingsubreddit
Speaker 2: at soliverble dot rereddit dot com, a passionate community of
Speaker 2: some of our most favorite verballers talking about each and
Speaker 2: every episode. Long after the final bell here, after we
Speaker 2: hit the stop button, the conversation rages on, so we
Speaker 2: appreciate their support. We do try to drop in from
Speaker 2: time to time to out the conversations that are going
Speaker 2: on over there. But if you like the show as
Speaker 2: much as we do, as much as they do, going
Speaker 2: out celebrable dot reddit dot com, the sub that is
Speaker 2: commandeered by our good friend Peter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think moving forward, we're going to be
Speaker 1: doing more Q and a's, and that is going to
Speaker 1: be a If it's not the main, it will be
Speaker 1: a main repository that you can drop questions. Even when
Speaker 1: we're not saying, hey, ask us any question about X,
Speaker 1: Y or Z. You can just start dropping questions into
Speaker 1: a thread we'll start on the subreddit that we can
Speaker 1: go check on and sort of cherry pick which ones
Speaker 1: we like best. And that's a good way to get
Speaker 1: your question answered on our upcoming Q and A shows
Speaker 1: that we're ramping up. This is true.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Daniel, this has been fun. Thanks for hanging
Speaker 2: with me. Thank you to everyone out there for hanging
Speaker 2: with us as we go through all these great seasons
Speaker 2: in college football. Some more disappointing than others, but fun
Speaker 2: nonetheless to walk back through fifteen years of college football
Speaker 2: runners up. A lot of fun for that guy over there,
Speaker 2: my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself, Tie hilding Brand.
Speaker 2: Thanks again, everyone, stay solid, stay safe, wash your hands,
Speaker 2: and we catch you all in a week.
Speaker 1: Peace,