1 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to save your production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren vogel Baum, and today 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: we have an episode for you about Stroganov. 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: Yes, oh, yes, it was quite a lot. Uh yeah, yeah. 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren? 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: I had been looking for a dish to talk about 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: and realized that this one was a little bit of 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: a cluster hug, And I was like, this sounds like 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: it's going to be fun to look into. And I 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: guess it is, depending on your definition of fun. It 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: made you as what like, it definitely made me and 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: you have confirmed like it made both of us feel 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: a little bit crazy. Yes it did, because there's a 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: lot of Stroganovs, and here we are, there's a. 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Lot of Stroganov and a lot of their names are similar, 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: and there's a deep history and we we love history here, 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 1: as you know, but we're not quite a history show. 18 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: So cool, really difficult to uh huh. 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: And I love I genuinely love I know that my 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: sarcasm voice sounds like my regular voice. Sometimes I genuinely 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: love it. When we're doing the reading for an episode 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 2: and I'm like, I just wanted to talk about fish paste. Okay, 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: we're gonna get We're gonna get into a deep history 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: of a country, the history of which I've never learned about. Okay, here, 25 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 2: we are cool. 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: Yes, it can be. 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: It can be frustrating when you're on a deadline. Yeah, 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: and you suddenly realize exactly how much your American education. 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: Has failed you. Yes, yeah, uh no, it's always because 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: we say it all the time on here. You can't 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 1: separate food from history and politics and all of those things. 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: But I was not anticipating the depth. I felt like 33 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: I was in The Ring when she's like looking in 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: the library and looking at lighthouses trying to figure out. 35 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: For people who haven't seen The Ring, you don't know 36 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. But the montage and any movie 37 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: where they go to research, and it's just like leading 38 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: to another thing and another thing, and yeah, why this 39 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: is so much bigger than I thought it was, which 40 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: makes sense, Oh yeah, sure, But that actually does lead 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: me to my point of my experience with Stroganoff. I 42 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: thought it was super fancy growing up. It was never 43 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: made in my house, but my mom would make something 44 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: that she called like as good as like as close 45 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: as we'll get to beef strogan off, and it was 46 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: the very Americanized version that we'll talk about. But so 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: it was egg noodles and cream of mushroom suit and 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: ground beef. So it didn't have like the other things 49 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: that a lot of the Americanized versions like to add, 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: like ketchup or tomato paste and worshter. Sure, but I 51 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: loved it. I loved it was very comforting, and I 52 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: just I grew up with this idea that strogan off 53 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: was very fancy. No. 54 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: I mean, well, you know, like any iteration of it 55 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: is really delicious. I mean at a certain point you've 56 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: got like a cream sauce with noodles, like a cream 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: sauce with starch and savory, something that's just good. That's 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: just yeah. I also I also felt like it was 59 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: a fancier dish. It it was something that my dad 60 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: would make at home. He was a professional cook and 61 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: so he usually was not up for making real food 62 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: at home, but this was one of his go to 63 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: dishes when on the rare occasion that he was and 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: so like it always it always felt special, like like 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: maybe not like special occasion special, but yeah, but I 66 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: was just like oh yeah, yeah, it's stroganoff night. Heck yeah, 67 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: exciting night. 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hmmmm. Well I guess this brings us 69 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: to our question, sure, stroganoff, what is it? 70 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: Well, stroganoff can be a lot of things, but what 71 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: we are basically looking at is, yes, a main coarse 72 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: dish of a rich, creamy sauce featuring some kind of 73 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: savory stuff like mushrooms before both cooked until tender. This 74 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: is one of those like rich and savory all the 75 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,119 Speaker 2: way down dishes, like where you're just stacking like pike 76 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: and onions and other allions with them reduced stock and 77 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 2: butter mommy c like orsester shear sauce, tomato paste or paprika, 78 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 2: like a pop of round complexity from white wine or 79 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: dry sherry. Maybe you get you get all these flavors 80 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: in there, and you saute them down, make sure your 81 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: beef or your mushrooms or whatever are like perfectly browned, 82 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: and then finish the sauce with a hit of sour 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: cream or cream cream or similar. And then you usually 84 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: pour it over a starch like rice or egg noodles 85 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: or potatoes. Maybe top it with parsley or potato straws 86 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 2: or dill. So the result is this oomammi bomb of 87 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: a comfort food dish, just hearty and stick to your ribs. 88 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: It's like it's like pulling on like a really nice 89 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: cable nit wool sweater like homy and classic and warming, 90 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: but it also feels fancy and it can be either 91 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: like quick and cheap or an absolute luxury product depending 92 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: on how it was made. 93 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: Yes, agreed as someone who's been like I have all 94 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: these sweaters and I want to wear them. It's too warm. 95 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: It's still too warm. 96 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's something so comforting about yeah, yourself up 97 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: in that. Yeah, I'm really looking forward. 98 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: I have I have this like new black sweater I 99 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: haven't been. 100 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: Able to wear yet. 101 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: Anyway, Okay, we're okay, all right, Because we recently were 102 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: talking about gulash and listener, mail, I do want to 103 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: acknowledge the fact that someone out there right now is 104 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: saying what you're talking about is also called gulash, and 105 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: I want to make a point of division. Feel free 106 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: to argue with me, but generally speaking, stroganoff is a 107 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: quick cooking saute recipe, whereas the many varieties of gulash 108 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: are slow cooking stew recipes I'm not going to argue 109 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: with you. If you would like to argue with me, 110 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: please do. I will accept what you say and thank 111 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 2: you for it, and we will do the Goolash episode eventually, 112 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: but for now, stroking off. There are a lot of variations, 113 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: like what is your main stuff? Is it mushrooms? Is 114 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: it beef? Is it both? If it's beef, what kind 115 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: of beef? Is it ground? Thin, sliced, cubed? Do you 116 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: flour coat the beef before you saute it? You can 117 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: use alternative proteins like chicken cutlets, porkloin, meat balls, or liver. 118 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: You can make it vegetarian or vegan. Do you serve 119 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: the stuff in the sauce by itself? Do you serve 120 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: it over rice or perhaps buckwheat? Do over noodles? Over potatoes? 121 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: What kind of noodles or potatoes? Scalped potatoes, mashed potatoes? 122 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: The world is your shaken off. 123 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: There are variants everywhere that the dish is spread, which 124 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: is a lot of places. Savory ingredients from like soy 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: sauce to ketchup make their way in. I read a 126 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: recipe with fish sauce in it. 127 00:07:59,600 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: The boo. 128 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: This element could be brandy or driver Mooth. Seasonings could 129 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: include nutmeg, mustard, horse radish, hot pepper like cayenne, herbs 130 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: like thyme. Additional vegetables might include chopped carrots or pickles. 131 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: Some recipes add cheese. In the United States, you can 132 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: buy like boxed like Hamburger helper style versions with a 133 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: powdered sauce packet and some kind of dried starch. It's 134 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: also not uncommon at all to use a can of 135 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: condensed cream of mushroom soup for a quicker, easier sauce. 136 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: If you are making it from scratch without cream of 137 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 2: mushroom soup, making a roo will help prevent the sauce 138 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 2: from clumping when you add your sour cream. There are 139 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: lots of other tips and tricks out there, as per 140 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: the usual jkenng Lopez Alt has a really great breakdown 141 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: on serious eats. But yeah, the world, the world really 142 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: is your strokenoff. 143 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: Indeed, it is which brings us to the nutrition. 144 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: It really depends on how you make it. There, I 145 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: will say there are also a great deal of like 146 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 2: lighter stroganoff recipes out there. I don't know, you know, 147 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: like eat a vegetable drink. Some water cream and sour 148 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: cream and beef for that matter, are like nutritionally dense foods, 149 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: as is butter. So you know, yeah, you know here 150 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 2: we are. 151 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: Here, we are. It's so lovely and so nice. So 152 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: oh it is. If you need a stroganof we support you. 153 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: I think we have something sort of number y for you. 154 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 155 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this being like a really widespread dish, it's 156 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 2: very difficult to track down numbers that mean anything to 157 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: anyone about anything related to Stroganoff. But September twenty first 158 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: here in the United States is National Beef strogan Off Day. 159 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: So there you go. All right, Okay, it's the turn 160 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: of fall. I get it, you know, like we're moving 161 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: into sweater weather. Yeah, there we go, all comes back around. 162 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, as we mentioned, this one does have quite 163 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: the history. 164 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: Oh oh it does, yes, and we are going to 165 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: get into that as soon as we get back from 166 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and 167 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes 168 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: we're back. 169 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: With this very dense history. Also, apologies an advance for 170 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: my Russian. Interestingly to me, I guess my older brother 171 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: speaks Russian. Oh so he would practice it a lot 172 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: around the house, but none of that has helped me, 173 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: I have found. But I'll do my best. 174 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well we'll try to work through it together. Yeah, yes, 175 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: all right. 176 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: So a lot of the tracing of this history of 177 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: this dish has centered around getting to the bottom of 178 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: the name. Where did this Stroganov come from? So the 179 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: wealthy Stroganov dynasty has been involved in the upper echelons 180 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 1: of Russian society since the mid fifteenth century, and that's 181 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: where most people assume that it comes from. Oh yeah, yeah. 182 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: For centuries they were one of the oldest and richest 183 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,359 Speaker 1: families in Russia. They had a huge fortune and palaces 184 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: and property all over the country. Yeah. 185 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: They'd come up partially in the salt industry, which I 186 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: thought was interesting. Their financial support of Peter the Great 187 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: in the seventeen hundreds elevated them to the aristocracy. They 188 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: were patrons of the arts and sciences. They married a 189 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: few Romanovs, they frequently were involved in the government. Just 190 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: hugely influential family. 191 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: Yes, they really really were. And under the Csars at 192 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: this time, wealthy families like the Shogunhavs liked to travel 193 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: to France and might own property there. Sometimes they sent 194 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: their children to schools in France, and they like to 195 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: hire French staff, including cooks, for their homes in Russia. 196 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: A part of this also had to do with the 197 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve French invasion of Russia during the Napoleonic War 198 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: and the fallout of that. 199 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: Remember also from our episodes on French cuisine and chefs 200 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: that France's like sociopolitical clout made their cuisine very posh 201 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: before the Revolution in seventeen eighty nine, and that revolution 202 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 2: sent a bunch of these career chefs for the noble 203 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: class looking for work in places like Imperial Russia. 204 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: Right, but okay, the name of the dish, there are 205 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: a few candidates. 206 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: A few specific Stroganoff family candidates, Yes, there are. 207 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: One of the most popular theories is that the name 208 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: originated with Alexander Grigorovich Strokanov, who held the position of 209 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: Governor general over Novo Orsiya Novo Ritia in the eighteen. 210 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: Hundreds what's now part of Ukraine. 211 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: He spent most of his life living in Odessa, where 212 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: the story goes he adhered to the local tradition of 213 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: keeping what was called an open table, and this was 214 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: a custom wherein anyone dressed properly or with a certain 215 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: level of education could pop in unannounced for dinner. 216 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the host of these things would expect to be 217 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: serving like forty to sixty people at a time. I 218 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 2: understand it was a little bit like an open salon. 219 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: Working artists and students and civil servants and travelers would 220 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: come get a nice meal out of it, and their 221 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: contribution was their stories or performance of poetry or whatever. 222 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: Odessa was and is a university town, and so you'd 223 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: have a lot of these types coming through. 224 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: And Stroganoff was wealthy, so his cooks took care of 225 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: the meal. According to this story, one of them came 226 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: up with the idea to pull together some Russian and 227 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: French influences cut fried pieces of meat served with the 228 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: sauce instead of having the sauce served separately. Not only 229 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: was it really tasty, it was relatively easy to make 230 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: and portion out. 231 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, the sour cream and the sauce would have been 232 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: a way to like russianify what's otherwise just basically like 233 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: a French frickacy. 234 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: And this timeline matches with the first known written mention 235 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: of Stroganoff meat or beef strogan Off in the eighteen 236 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: sixties and Elena molokovits Gift for Young Housewives. Yeah, this 237 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: was a recipe book. The recipe that she wrote calls 238 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: for cubes of beef seasoned with salt and allspice, pan 239 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: fried and butter. The sauce is a rude diluted with 240 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: beef broth and then seasoned with mustard and pepper, with 241 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: a sour cream added in at the end. Just mix 242 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: it up and serve. Also, I cannot tell you how 243 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: much to do there is about the cubes versus the strips. Oh, yes, 244 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: and these early recipes. We'll get into that a little 245 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: bit more later. Well, speaking of kind of, however, some 246 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: argue that the recipe is older than this, and that 247 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: there are similar recipes in eighteenth century French culinary works. 248 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: In this case, many credit Charles Briere, a chef working 249 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: in Saint Petersburg, for the name. After the death of 250 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: Stroganoff in eighteen ninety one, he sent the recipe to 251 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: Larte Colinaire, named in Stroganov's owner. This may or may 252 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: not have been part of a cooking competition. More on 253 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: that later as well. Yeah, others point to similar recipes 254 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: in Russia going back as far as the early eighteen 255 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: hundreds that may have served as stepping stones or beef 256 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: shroken off like this was not the first instance of 257 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: something like this, Oh dear well others Okay, Others think 258 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: that the name comes from Grigory Alexandrovich Stroganoff, who lived 259 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: from the late seventeen hundreds to the mid eighteen hundreds 260 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: and was known in part for enjoying food. The legend 261 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: goes that one of the Schroganov chefs invented his dish 262 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: for him when he got older and had troubled chewing 263 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: and swallowing meat. 264 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: So this is like a thin sliced or possibly ground 265 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: beef version exactly. 266 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: Still. Others, though, attributed it to the famed diplomat Pavel 267 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: Alexandrovitch Stroganoff, who operated in the late seventeen hundreds and 268 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds. He was gonna celebrity oh yeah, at 269 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: the time. In this version, it was either Stroganoff or 270 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: his chef who came up with the dish, possibly while 271 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: encountering frozen meat in Siberia that could only be cut 272 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: into thin strips. Impossibly, also because Pavel had bad teeth, 273 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: or Lauren. Uh huh. The potential cooking competition mentioned earlier 274 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: happened under Pavel's Stroganof instead, and the chef named it 275 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: after him his employer. However, that timeline doesn't really work out. Yeah. 276 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Pavel passed in eighteen seventeen, and whenever people talk 277 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: about this hypothetical culinary competition, they tie it to the 278 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: year eighteen ninety one, So like, it's not impossible for 279 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: a chef of his to have still been working then, 280 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: But I want to say improbable. 281 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to agree with you. Okay, in some cases, 282 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: I suspect some people mixed up their strogan Offs in 283 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: the telling of these stories. Yes, yes, which during this 284 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: research I understand, I thought I was losing my mind 285 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: trying to keep track. I also was like, wasn't he 286 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: long dead by the yes? But I also think people 287 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: really really wanted to attribute this to Pavel. They really 288 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: wanted the Stroganoff in question to be him. Who Yes, 289 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: he was somewhat of a celebrity. I'm not saying they're wrong, 290 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: because that would make sense in terms of name recognition. 291 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: It's just that, Yeah, a lot of the dates don't 292 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: match up. It doesn't really work. 293 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 2: It doesn't really make sense. 294 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So all of that to say, 295 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: the general takeaway is that there were other similar French 296 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: and Russian dishes that served as inspiration, but the name 297 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: came from a French or French influence chef who made 298 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: it for their employer, a Stroganoff, and named it after them, 299 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: as was custom at the time. 300 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: Probably probably this this is not based on anything that 301 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: I read. It's just a pet theory. But like, it 302 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: would not surprise me if the Stroganoff family had nothing 303 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: to do with the creation of this recipe and that 304 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: their name got attached to it because they were rich 305 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 2: and famous, you know, like their name meant luxury. To 306 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: this day, one of their palaces in Saint Petersburg this 307 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: like wild Baroque fever dream of a palace that's like 308 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: painted pink on the outside. It's part of the museum system. 309 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: Now it's still a tourist attraction, and apparently a lot 310 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 2: of the tourist driven restaurants in the immediate area serve 311 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: this dish. So I think, I don't know, I don't know. 312 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: It could be based on one or all of these knovs, 313 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 2: or none of them and just have gotten their name 314 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: attached to it because they were popular people. 315 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, we cannot get to the bottom of this 316 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: mystery of history today. No, no, I don't do another mossage. 317 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: Breakout the library books, whatever the case. Recipes started proliferating 318 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: in Russia in the eighteen seventies, in part due to 319 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: a resurgence in traditional Russian cuisine and the practice of 320 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: sending printed recipes all over the country. From what I read, 321 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: the early versions didn't include mushrooms of or paprika, and 322 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: we're pretty mustard for it. 323 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand. The mushrooms didn't hit the recipe until 324 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: around the turn of the century. The first recipe to 325 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: feature them and tomato was The Practical Guide of the 326 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: Basics of Culinary Arts, which was published in nineteen twelve. 327 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 2: That was also when the potato straws came in. I 328 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: am so upset for the record that I've never had 329 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: a dish of stroken off with potato straws on top 330 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 2: of it. I'm like, why not layer your starches, why 331 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: not start on startron starch? 332 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: That sounds so good. I have had that either, And 333 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: when I read it, I was like, obviously, what are 334 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: we doing now the name aside. Some sources claim that 335 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: beef stroganoff really started as a dish for poor folks 336 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: who are attempting to make me last. As they traveled 337 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: further into Europe, they took the dish with them. Another 338 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: source I found, though, claimed that a part of this 339 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 1: dish's popularity was that it was customizable and could be 340 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: made very expensively or very cheaply, and because of that 341 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: it was popular across class lines. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. 342 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: It makes sense to me. As Russians immigrated and people 343 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: traveled around the world in the early twentieth century, beef 344 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: stroganof became well known around the globe. It was particularly 345 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: popular in Shanghai, where it was often served over rice, 346 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: and this was in part due to political relations between 347 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: China and Russia. 348 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Leading up to the Revolution, Russian investments in like 349 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: northeast China and particularly especially in the railways, led to 350 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 2: a bunch of Russian immigration there. So there was already 351 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: like a cultural base in Shanghai and surrounding areas. Yes, 352 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: and then many Russians fled after the nineteen seventeen Revolution 353 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: in Russia, and in some pockets this dish really really 354 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 2: took off One of those pockets was Brazil, where it 355 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 2: allegedly is so popular many Brazilians believe it originated there 356 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: are they just like to claim it it does. Yeah, 357 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: that's the Brazilian version, I believe, often has tomato in 358 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: it and is right usually served with those potato straws 359 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: or like shoestring fried potatoes. Yes. 360 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Japan is another pocket where I read it's made 361 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: with mushrooms, soy sauce and heavy cream served over rice. 362 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: But please, listeners write in oh. 363 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever Stroganoff is to you, we want to hear 364 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 2: about it. Absolutely, absolutely we do. 365 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: However, it did take time for Stroknof to catch on 366 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: in the US, possibly because immigrants arriving from Russia to 367 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: the US were not in the mood to make it, 368 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: since many were fleeing a not so great situation in Russia. 369 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: It wasn't until a second wave of Russian immigrants arrived, 370 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: some of them of the upper class, and those immigrants 371 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: started opening restaurants that the dish started to get a 372 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: foothold in the US. For example, the famous Russian Tea 373 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: Room opened in New York City in nineteen twenty six, 374 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: still open. The first English language recipe for the dish 375 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: was featured in a nineteen thirty two cooks book. A 376 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: recipe for it appeared in a Larus Gastronomique in nineteen 377 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: thirty eight, crediting the recipe to Charles Rier after he 378 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: sent it to Lart culinaiar And some people think that's 379 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: where all this confusion, some of this confusion comes in. 380 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah. 381 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: The popularity of the dish in the United States really 382 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: took off with Americans returning from World War Two with 383 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: a more adventurous palette. And this had a ripple effect 384 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: since not only did some of them go on to 385 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: work in the food industry and shaped it that way, 386 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: on a more personal level, they shared these dishes and 387 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: taste with those in their lives. This is also when 388 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: people were moving into the suburbs and dinner parties were 389 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: in fashion, and beef strogan off stroganof was a popular 390 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: offering because it was simple to make, not that expensive, 391 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: depending but was seen as something fancy, something you're which 392 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: at the time was something fancy in the US. And 393 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: again it was tasty, especially in comparison to the previous 394 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: years of rationing. For the war. It started appearing on 395 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: menus at nice restaurants. People started experimenting with it, adding 396 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: Worcester sauce, condensed mushroom soup or tomato paste, slash ketchup, 397 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: typically serving it over egg noodles or maybe mashed potatoes 398 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: or rice. Strips of beef were swapped for ground beef, 399 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: the sour cream was swapped for sweet cream. A lot 400 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: of experimentation. So as I was reading this, I was 401 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: just I was curious because it was happening during the 402 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: Red Scare and the Cold War with the USSR. I 403 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: could only find theories about why it was that this 404 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: dish seemed to be shielded from all of that, And 405 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: it sounds like part of it was the americanization of it. 406 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: Our people were more likely to associate it with France, 407 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: or maybe it didn't really matter to folks go and 408 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: it tasted good and maybe they just didn't think about it. 409 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh, I do think that there was like 410 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 2: a divide in thought in America about communist Russia versus 411 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: imperial Russia. And this is clearly an imperial dish and 412 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: part of that kind of old world European fanciness that 413 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 2: a lot of Americans were sort of aspiring to at 414 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: the time. 415 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And another reason this dish 416 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: grew in popularity at the time is that this is 417 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: when a lot of innovations around convenience foods like boxed mixes, 418 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: seasoning packets, or microwaveable meals were happening, and Stroganoff got 419 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: wrapped into all of that. Oh yeah. I tried to 420 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: find specifics and I really couldn't. But by the sixties 421 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: and seventies, companies like Swanson were offering frozen beef strogan 422 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Off meals and I actually found it an eBay listing 423 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: where you can buy the cardboard box. Oh wow, yeah, 424 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: okay cool. When Hamburger Helper launched at large across the 425 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: US in nineteen seventy one with five flavors, one of 426 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: them was potato stroken Off. Actually their list of flavors, 427 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: those five flavors gave me a little bit of piles. 428 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: They weren't quite what I was expecting, but I mean, 429 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: they're nothing quite wild, but I was just like, really, 430 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: it's again like when we talked about things like that, 431 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about what was going on at 432 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: the time and what were the taste at the time. Yeah, yeah, 433 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: I will say, you know, do this. We always get 434 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: our cravings. And I was trying to find like this 435 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: beef stroked off frozen meal, which I know I had had, 436 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: and I couldn't find it. What kept showing up Swedish meatballs? 437 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: Oh sure, And I went on a deep dive about 438 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: the difference between Swedish meatballs joking and this is the 439 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: risk of Yeah, podcaster, I am that's a nutmeg and 440 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: the Swedish. 441 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: There you go, there you go. 442 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: I haven't. 443 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, we we have not done an episode on Swedish meatballs. 444 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: There you go. 445 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: Stuff stuff to talk about in the future. Maybe we 446 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: should have a whole show that's just stuff to talk 447 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: about in the future, and it's just us talking about 448 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: things we would like to talk about. Yeah, today, this 449 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: isn't an episode about this, but gosh, doesn't it sound 450 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: like it would probably be cool. 451 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: It's just as we used to have these wild ideas 452 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: where we would like, how weird can we go? 453 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: It? 454 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: Just us listing topics that. 455 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: That we're not doing. Yeah, yeah, get real, get real, 456 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: get real bonkers, just go ganza with it. 457 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, it seems I did check. The Hamburger 458 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Helper stroganof still exists. You can still buy that, and 459 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: you can still get the flavor packet to make it 460 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: your own, I guess, but I couldn't find any of 461 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: the frozen meals at my local grocery store, all Swedish meatball, 462 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: all just Swedish meatballs. 463 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 2: Well well, apparently the people have spoken. 464 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I also checked the menu of 465 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: the Russian Tearing just because I was curious, and their 466 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: version of stroganoff sounds, based on this research, a bit 467 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: more americanized to me. Nothing that's bad at all, that's great, 468 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: but it's just interesting because there is a big back 469 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: and forth about, as always in these episodes, is this 470 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: drop or is it this? Is it all of these things? 471 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: But there seemed a bit more of what I my 472 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: American palette would think. It's beef stroke now, But I 473 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: don't know if anyone's ever been Oh yeah, yeah. 474 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: And and rights, as we said, we would be so 475 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: curious to hear what strove enough means to you. Yes, 476 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: like the version my dad made was pretty pretty like 477 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: French leaning, like yeah, like onions and mushrooms sauteed down, 478 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 2: maybe dredged, some beef cubes and flour frying off in 479 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: butter and then finish out of sauce with some broth 480 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: and sour cream from there kind of thing. But sounds 481 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: so good. Yeah, yeah, I know the cravings, the cravings. 482 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: The cravings are real. Well, yeah, please write in and 483 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: let us know, because I think that's what we have 484 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: to say about Struggnoff from now. 485 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: I think it is. But we already do have some 486 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: listener mail for you, and we are going to get 487 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: into that as soon as we get back from one 488 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and 489 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're 490 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: back with listener. Oh yeah, I loved the movie and 491 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: Anastasia when I was growing up. 492 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, it has that song. I sing 493 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: it all the time. Once por in December, I was 494 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: going to try to do that. I was like, I 495 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: can't put more on through whatever that choreography would be, 496 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: thank you, So to showcase the warmth and comfort of 497 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: the dish like Strokernoff, Yeah, Tracy wrote. Currently listening to 498 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: the White Tail Deer episode and I totally related to 499 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: Lauren's front yard deer fear. I lived in Missoula, Montana 500 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: for a few years and a whole herd used to 501 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: sleep under an oak tree in the front yard made 502 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: coming home from the bar a little scary sometimes. I 503 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: also wanted to recommend a great book. I recently listened 504 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: to The Only Good Indians. There is some quality deer 505 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: body horror and a lot of interesting perspectives on indigenous 506 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: food ways. I think you both would enjoy. I listened 507 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: to the audio book, which was so well performed, but 508 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: I also listened to it all the way through one 509 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: weekend when I was home alone and it scared. So 510 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: I had read this book, but I looked it up 511 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: and I know the author and I read the primis 512 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yah, so awesome. 513 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I also relate really hard to doing something 514 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 2: that you probably shouldn't, like listening to a really creepy 515 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: audiobook at home alone in like one weekend and scaring 516 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: yourself and just being like, well, here I am. 517 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: It's almost like I could have predicted it. I'm scared now. 518 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: I like it though. That's fun too. 519 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: Oh the deer fear, the deer fear. 520 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: It's real. It is now there's a squirrel fear. As 521 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: Lauren was. 522 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 2: Telling I, don't have a squirrel fear. You injected the 523 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: squirrel fear into the story. 524 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm projecting it into you. 525 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah that I was telling Annie before we started that. 526 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: For like a solid twenty minutes earlier this afternoon, there 527 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 2: was a squirrel just sitting on my back porch, railing, 528 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 2: just screaming, just screaming for like twenty minutes. And I 529 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: really felt that squirrel. 530 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: You know, so you connect with the squirrel. 531 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was a squirrel connection, not a squirrel fear. 532 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 2: Ohund okay, No, I mean if it jumped at my face, 533 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 2: I would be unhappy about that, but you know, well, 534 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 2: keep us posted. 535 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh goodness, and we appreciate the recommendation. Thanks. 536 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, yes, thank you, thank you. Eric wrote, 537 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: I really wish I could have seen an automat when 538 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: they were around. The concept sounds really interesting. While large 539 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: vending machine options exist, something that is more of a 540 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: like recently cooked prepared option sounds like. Something that is 541 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: more of a recently cooked prepared option really sounds like 542 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: something to see. I could see a place for them 543 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 2: in a city with a fair amount of people around. 544 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if it would work, but it seems 545 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: like it could if you find the right mix of food. 546 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: Christine hit the nail on the head about it. We 547 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: live on coffee and caffeine. The amount of coffee and 548 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 2: various energy drinks you see around it groups will make 549 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 2: your head spin. Yes, overdose of caffeine pun intended. I 550 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: had to see if California walnuts were the same as 551 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: English walnuts, and in general they are unless marked as 552 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: black and so forth. Walnuts are just a great all 553 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: around not for use in things. I actually used a 554 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 2: mix of toasted walnuts and toasted pepitas in a vegan 555 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 2: pesto I made tonight basil spinach parsley, a nutritional yeast 556 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 2: in place of the palm, lemon juice, olive oil, garlic, 557 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: and the toasted nuts had a different way of flavor 558 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 2: I really liked anyway. The walnut talk, of course, led 559 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 2: me down a walnut rabbit hole, which always leads to 560 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: interesting things. I don't know how you find time to 561 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: do episodes if you end up in those rabbit holes. 562 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: Different types of venison are always interesting. I haven't hunted 563 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 2: in over thirty years, but I have friends who still 564 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 2: hunt who provide deer meat. Whitetail is definitely the most common. 565 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 2: I have to grill it or prepare it when my 566 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: wife is not around, as she does not like the 567 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 2: gamey smell. It doesn't bother me as I like the 568 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 2: smell and taste. I really enjoy getting ground venison or 569 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: chunking up the meat and making venison chili. If you 570 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 2: make venison chili, I highly, highly highly recommend doing a 571 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: Cincinnati style chili, as I think the cocoa powder, nutmeg, 572 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 2: and cinnamon really add to the flavoring complexity without losing 573 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 2: the venison flavor. Something else to try is grilled venison tacos. 574 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 2: Do a light rub with some chili powder, granulated garlic, 575 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 2: granulated onion, and cumin. Grill and slice and add two 576 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: flower tortillas with some pickled ribbons of carrot and just 577 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 2: a little cootiha or a wahaka. Always always look forward 578 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 2: to what cravings and rabbit holes the ostensibly a food 579 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,959 Speaker 2: show takes us down. 580 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: There are many they are illusions. Oh they are they are. 581 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: I was like, what was immigration from Russia to hy 582 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 2: of like in the late eighteen and early nineteen hundreds. 583 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 2: Let's look into that. Here we are. 584 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, people can make so much 585 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: money selling these old frozen food box The rabbit holes 586 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 1: are a plenty, yeah, is what I'm saying. They are. 587 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: Often they're they're fun, but they can be a time suck. 588 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sometimes are on a deadline. Yeah, yes, exactly. Oh. 589 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 2: Thanks is always for the for the recipes and recommendations. 590 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 2: All that sounds delicious. 591 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: It does. I The cravings are real right now for 592 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: so many different things. I do want to shout out 593 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: over on stuff. One ever told you the other podcast 594 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: I do Friend of the Show when co host over 595 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: there is Samantha. She recently did an episode on soup 596 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: oh and just gender ideas around soup, of course, but 597 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: in it she came out hard against Cincinnati style chili. 598 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm under the bus, right really she did, And I 599 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: was like, you realize you're you're you're the stars. But 600 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: I think, to me, that sounds that sounds delicious. 601 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my I wouldn't call the chili that I 602 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 2: that I make Cincinnati style, but for sure, coca powder 603 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 2: and cinnamon are two of my like secret ingredients. That's 604 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: secret and like heavy scare quotes because I'm saying it 605 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 2: into a microphone that's going out in an international podcast. 606 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: But now you're in on it. There you go. There 607 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: you go. 608 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 2: It's just our secret. You know, coca powder and cinnamon 609 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: are terrific in chili. 610 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: I feel like chili, so. 611 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:06,439 Speaker 2: You can. 612 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: It's some days you might want that, some days you 613 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: might want something completely different. I feel go a lot 614 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: different ways. Also, this is another conversation we got into, 615 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: which we'll have to say for another podcast, But we 616 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: were arguing about whether chili is a stew or not 617 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: is a stew. I think chili is in its own category, 618 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: but she thinks it's a stewp Oh, it's a stew. 619 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 1: Well I'm disagree, but that's all right. I think chili 620 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: should have its own like little branch. 621 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a little taxonomical. Sure, yeah, you're like, no, 622 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 2: it's its own species. Sorry, it's neither stup nor stew. Yeah, no, 623 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 2: we can. We can argue about that later, for sure. 624 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: And we shall great meantime, thank you to both of 625 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: these listeners so much for writing it. If you would 626 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can. Our email is 627 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: Hello at savorpod dot com. We're also on social media. 628 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at 629 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 2: saverpod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor 630 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my 631 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 2: heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 632 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 633 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 634 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,959 Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 635 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.