Speaker 1: It's so much harder to get out of something than
Speaker 1: it is to get into something. Welcome to the one
Speaker 1: you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance
Speaker 1: of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true, and yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is
Speaker 1: Karen Valencic, founder of Spiral Impact and Indianapolis based speaking
Speaker 1: training and development company. Karen leverages her expertise in communications
Speaker 1: science and martial arts to provide a distinct perspective on
Speaker 1: performance improvement. Karen is the author of the book Spiral Impact,
Speaker 1: The Power to Get It Done with Grace, and the
Speaker 1: handbook Giving Deliberate Feedback for leaders. As a black belt
Speaker 1: in aikido, the Japanese art of reconciliation, Karen weaves examples
Speaker 1: from the martial art practice into her writing and speaking.
Speaker 1: Akito is a martial art based on position rather than force.
Speaker 1: Here's the interview. Hi, Karen, welcome to the show. Hey,
Speaker 1: thank you, Eric. It's a pleasure. I'm glad to get
Speaker 1: you on. Your book is called spiral impact, the power
Speaker 1: to get it done with grace, and we will dig
Speaker 1: more into that here in a minute, but let's start
Speaker 1: off with the parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with
Speaker 1: his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves
Speaker 1: inside of us that are always at battle. One is
Speaker 1: a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery
Speaker 1: and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which
Speaker 1: represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the
Speaker 1: grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second,
Speaker 1: and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, grandfather,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 1: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 1: the work that you do. Well. One thing, what a
Speaker 1: fabulous grandfather to have had. So I would have loved
Speaker 1: to have somebody when I was young asking me that
Speaker 1: or tell me that parable. But for me, in my
Speaker 1: experience and in my belief system, my outer world is
Speaker 1: really a depiction depiction of my inner world. And I
Speaker 1: find the more fear and angst and anger and stuff
Speaker 1: I hold within me, the more things don't work quite
Speaker 1: right in my outer world. And so what I've learned
Speaker 1: is the more the more at peace and the more
Speaker 1: love and the more um worthiness I can feel inside myself,
Speaker 1: the better my life works. And and that just has
Speaker 1: become more and more obvious the more years I live.
Speaker 1: And so for me, feeding the feeding the wolves, it's
Speaker 1: there's so many different ways of feeding. And one is
Speaker 1: of course thought, my thoughts, but it's also what I
Speaker 1: allow to go on around me. What whether I'm you know,
Speaker 1: watching the news, whether I'm you know, what movies I'm watching,
Speaker 1: what TV I'm watching, that kind of thing. And it's
Speaker 1: also you know, what am I consuming? And inside my body,
Speaker 1: I tend to be very sensitive to to what I
Speaker 1: eat and drink, and so it's like there's a you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you're consuming has an impact in terms of how
Speaker 1: you feel that that centered nous is what I call it,
Speaker 1: and and that's the wolf that I'd like to feed.
Speaker 1: Not to say that I'm a purist on it, because
Speaker 1: I'm not, but um has a huge impact on the
Speaker 1: external world. A lot of what you do your your
Speaker 1: book spiral impact is based on your experience with the
Speaker 1: martial art of a kido. Right when did you tell
Speaker 1: me about you've been doing that? It sounds like a
Speaker 1: long time. Tell me about your journey to you know,
Speaker 1: what led you to a kido and then kind of
Speaker 1: what brought you to today? Well, you know, I I
Speaker 1: had read about I kedo gosh, like thirty five years
Speaker 1: ago and in a book by Ramdas And there's a
Speaker 1: wonderful story by Terry Dobson in that in his book
Speaker 1: that really just talked about the philosophy of I kedo,
Speaker 1: and I was I've always had been intrigued with martial arts,
Speaker 1: but was a little bit too intimidated to actually go
Speaker 1: pursue that. But I kedo always seemed interesting to me.
Speaker 1: And then actually I was at a dental conference about
Speaker 1: four years ago and I attended a session with a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Tom Crumb who wrote this
Speaker 1: book called The Magic of Conflict, and Tom was an
Speaker 1: ike to list and it. You know, it's one of
Speaker 1: those things that I don't know if you've experienced this
Speaker 1: in your life, but it was one of those things.
Speaker 1: As I sat and watched Tom's demonstration, it had a
Speaker 1: huge impact in my life and I was like one
Speaker 1: of those things I just had clarity over around how
Speaker 1: my interactions weren't working for me, and I actually had
Speaker 1: clarity around how I wanted to actually study this and
Speaker 1: really make this part of my life work. And so
Speaker 1: it was a huge impact for me. And you know,
Speaker 1: and for those of your listeners that aren't familiar with
Speaker 1: I Kedo, I Kedo is actually it is a martial art,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's really not about force, it's about
Speaker 1: position and it makes a wonderful metaphor for communication. And
Speaker 1: what I really love about it is that it's really
Speaker 1: for me the study of me in relationship because you know,
Speaker 1: I can sit and I can meditate and I can
Speaker 1: breathe by myself, but it's when I engage with other
Speaker 1: people is when I'm really tested. And earlier in my life,
Speaker 1: I always felt like I kind of gave my power
Speaker 1: away a lot. And what I've learned with a keto,
Speaker 1: and again it gets back to that that good wolf
Speaker 1: is to you know, have the confidence to be able
Speaker 1: to enter into relationship and not beat someone up and
Speaker 1: not give myself away. So for me, it's it's a
Speaker 1: really powerful practice. Does that make sense? It does, And
Speaker 1: that that middle ground between those two things, which is
Speaker 1: giving up your power and being aggressive or dominant. Finding
Speaker 1: that middle ground it can be so challenging and yet
Speaker 1: so powerful when you can do it. Yes, it's and
Speaker 1: and I tell you I've practiced at this point for years,
Speaker 1: and I have been blessed with some amazing teachers, and
Speaker 1: and what I find fascinating it was at year twenty
Speaker 1: where I had where, you know, after twenty years of
Speaker 1: consistent practice, you would think, you know, it's just you
Speaker 1: go along, but I had another kind of like cathartic
Speaker 1: awareness in terms of the depth of that whole thing.
Speaker 1: And so it's it's interesting as as you have a
Speaker 1: practice um where you know you don't expect you don't
Speaker 1: expect another quantum leap in it, but that actually happened
Speaker 1: for me as well in terms of and it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to articulate, but just the whole level of
Speaker 1: of how much more relaxed I can be and still
Speaker 1: have more power in those relationships. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a fabulous thing. One of the lines that you used
Speaker 1: often is keep moving and bend your knees. Can you
Speaker 1: uh sort of relate that too? Is not only in
Speaker 1: the and I know I said it wrong to begin with,
Speaker 1: what's the correct way to say it? I keokeo so
Speaker 1: related to us in an I keto perspective as well
Speaker 1: as how you apply that to life. Well, So in
Speaker 1: I in II keto, UM, for one, when you bend
Speaker 1: your knees, you're more flexible and and if you you know,
Speaker 1: if you can play around with that, if you're standing
Speaker 1: right now and if your knees are slightly bent, um,
Speaker 1: you're able to move more quickly and your your center
Speaker 1: of gravity is lower. And so that that allows you
Speaker 1: to be more flexible and able to move more and
Speaker 1: and keep moving is I think a lot of times
Speaker 1: in the in the martial art practice, we can get
Speaker 1: stuck in one spot and you can move just a
Speaker 1: tiny bit, and it shifts the dynamic of of the relationship.
Speaker 1: And that's true and you know, because what I've done
Speaker 1: is I've taken my practice in the martial art and
Speaker 1: I've really put it in a format that i call
Speaker 1: spiral impact that I teach to people for everyday life
Speaker 1: to apply these concepts. And so in everyday life again,
Speaker 1: it's it's learning that flexibility and recognizing if you're stuck,
Speaker 1: just move, just ask a question, just get clear, unintention
Speaker 1: it's it's it's I think a lot of times we
Speaker 1: get we get married to an idea that's got to
Speaker 1: be a certain way or um yeah, position that we're
Speaker 1: holding and and and we get locked in and we
Speaker 1: don't have we don't have movement that happens. So does
Speaker 1: that make sense? It does? I mean what a phrase
Speaker 1: that I I use a lot in talking about depression
Speaker 1: or low mood with people is that, you know, depression
Speaker 1: hates a moving target. You know, just just get moving.
Speaker 1: You have a line that says movement gives us energy
Speaker 1: and creativity. Struggle and fear makes us feel stuck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah. And you know, and I can remember early
Speaker 1: on in my my martial arts practice and actually you know,
Speaker 1: my my earlier career, I was an automotive engineer and
Speaker 1: and I was, you know, I was a pioneer in
Speaker 1: that for a woman. I was one of the very
Speaker 1: first woman engineers at the auto company that I worked
Speaker 1: for in Anderson, Indiana. And you know, I think that
Speaker 1: when we don't know what we're doing and we're not
Speaker 1: sure what to do, and you know, we can just
Speaker 1: freeze and and and it's like, well what do you
Speaker 1: do from here? And again on the mat it doesn't
Speaker 1: take a lot of movement to get moving um. It
Speaker 1: just takes a little bit and it can just be
Speaker 1: bending your knees that will create movement. But in life too,
Speaker 1: it it really gets back to recognizing um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's that finding that piece withinside yourself and then you know,
Speaker 1: start asking questions and and that to me is you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's getting movement. The fact that we don't have
Speaker 1: to have all the answers and asking really good questions
Speaker 1: is a way to get movement. And I know for me,
Speaker 1: I and I listened to your show a lot, and
Speaker 1: I do think with with depression, with UM, with any
Speaker 1: kind of of of mood stuff, For me, large physical
Speaker 1: movement is always helpful. So so even if you're in
Speaker 1: a work situation and you feel stuck or you feel
Speaker 1: frustrated with with something that's going on. You know, getting
Speaker 1: out and going for a walk somewhere is really helpful.
Speaker 1: And I think that exercise and it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be running or you know, regular exercise, but you know,
Speaker 1: for me, gardening is a very therapeutic thing to do. Well.
Speaker 1: I remember years back, I was going through some major
Speaker 1: changes in my life and that's when I ordered I
Speaker 1: don't remember how many tons of rocks and and barrels
Speaker 1: and barrels of of dirt and I created this garden
Speaker 1: in my backyard and it was very therapeutic for me
Speaker 1: because I just was doing all this physical stuff and
Speaker 1: it really helped me move move through the stuck nous
Speaker 1: of my emotions with that so um and you know, breathing.
Speaker 1: Breathing is a really powerful thing and part of my
Speaker 1: practice we do something called Missogi breathing, which which is
Speaker 1: it's it's not complicated, it's it's just very conscious breathing
Speaker 1: that has a bit of movement to it. So it's
Speaker 1: it's not you know, I know, before I started doing this,
Speaker 1: I would try breathing practices and I would be you know,
Speaker 1: you'd forget that you're trying to breathe, but the movement
Speaker 1: really kind of connects you with a breathing practice and
Speaker 1: reminds you, yeah, I'm I'm in this rhythm and I'm
Speaker 1: breathing and I'm moving at the same time. So yeah,
Speaker 1: movement is really powerful, very powerful, and and that's when
Speaker 1: I do training. When I do training and when I speak,
Speaker 1: you know, I get people up and I engage them
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways in terms of of movement,
Speaker 1: and I you know a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll just actually, while you're sitting there, Eric, and for
Speaker 1: your listeners, you might just take both of your fist
Speaker 1: and push them together so that they're they're locked, and
Speaker 1: you know, and that's something this that we're stuck here.
Speaker 1: You know, if we've got two fists going head to
Speaker 1: head and this is what I call this conflict and
Speaker 1: we're stuck. And you know, conflict is actually a really
Speaker 1: great thing and it's where it's where all innovation begins,
Speaker 1: but it also can be very destructive. And so it
Speaker 1: really only requires one person to shift and and actually
Speaker 1: say one person open a palm, and that's where the
Speaker 1: spiral comes in and it shifts everything. So I find
Speaker 1: a lot of times we get locked in with people
Speaker 1: or locked into situations, and and when we can recognize
Speaker 1: first that we're locked and I think that's that's really
Speaker 1: the key thing is is to really recognize when you've
Speaker 1: got that conflict, when you've got that tension, where do
Speaker 1: you hold it in your body? What do you feel?
Speaker 1: How do you recognize that? Because if you're not conscious
Speaker 1: that you've got that going on, there's not a lot
Speaker 1: to do with them. And so when I work with
Speaker 1: work with people, I have them identify, you know what,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you know when you've got that
Speaker 1: stuck nous? You know, is it is it a feeling
Speaker 1: in your body somewhere in your neck or your stomach,
Speaker 1: or is it a general feeling of overwhelm or frustration
Speaker 1: or you know, how do you experience that? And and
Speaker 1: once you recognize where that stuckness is, there's some really
Speaker 1: simple things that you can do to get movement with that.
Speaker 1: And again, I think of it as a spiral, and
Speaker 1: most I keto movement is all based upon spirals, so
Speaker 1: it's rather going head to head. And I I use
Speaker 1: the analogy um with with general audiences that that you know,
Speaker 1: it's a difference between using a hammer and a nail
Speaker 1: and a screw and a screw driver. You know, one thing,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm beating it up and I've got to have
Speaker 1: it really it's very intense. I gotta be really on target.
Speaker 1: And the other way, I have this connection and it's
Speaker 1: very stable and it's easy to move. There's a huge
Speaker 1: difference in my long term result on both of those things.
Speaker 1: And here's eric with the rest of the interview. You
Speaker 1: talk about conflict, and you were talking about how you
Speaker 1: know easy it is in conflict for for two people
Speaker 1: to get stuck. You also at points talk about how
Speaker 1: important you know creative tension or destructive tension um you
Speaker 1: know in the workplace. I always find that to be interesting.
Speaker 1: Dynamic is there's got to be that middle ground. If
Speaker 1: it's too much, if there's too much disagreement, it's done
Speaker 1: in the wrong way. It's very harmful. But if everybody's
Speaker 1: just saying the same thing to your point, there's no innovation.
Speaker 1: And so one of the lines you have that I
Speaker 1: really like is you say that a difference becomes a
Speaker 1: conflict when you choose to push against the difference, right
Speaker 1: and and and that's the absolutely true, and since I've
Speaker 1: written my book, I've actually expanded on that a little
Speaker 1: bit more. And I think of destructive conflict, the difference
Speaker 1: between destructive and an innovative or creative conflict is really
Speaker 1: they both have that push, but one one pushes too
Speaker 1: long or too hard for the people involved with the
Speaker 1: intention of relate to be right, destroy or do harm.
Speaker 1: And whereas innovative conflict pushes just right for the people
Speaker 1: involved and the intention is to engage for positive outcome
Speaker 1: and so. And the tricky thing in work in organizations
Speaker 1: is that people a lot of times will make assumptions
Speaker 1: around what people are thinking or what they can stand.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's really important to really get
Speaker 1: to know your coworkers, or if you're in management, to
Speaker 1: really know the people that work for you, because some
Speaker 1: people can take a whole lot of push and they're
Speaker 1: fine with it, they don't even notice it, and other
Speaker 1: people they pale at the slight rays of a tone
Speaker 1: of voice and so, and is that bad or is
Speaker 1: that good? You know, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1: And I think when you can recognize what you're working
Speaker 1: with and then support people to to feel more comfortable
Speaker 1: speaking up, um it's a powerful thing. I remember a
Speaker 1: long time ago one of my early clients there was
Speaker 1: a very um it was mostly men and it was
Speaker 1: a computer company a long time ago, and there were
Speaker 1: just a couple of women involved, and these guys were
Speaker 1: they were we create through conflict all the time. We
Speaker 1: rumble around da da da da. And it was so
Speaker 1: interesting because I said, that is great. Yet you got
Speaker 1: to watch is everybody participating? And this one woman raised
Speaker 1: her hand and she said, yeah, and when you guys
Speaker 1: do that, I will never participate, just so you know.
Speaker 1: And so so it's it's kind of interesting. Um, It's
Speaker 1: just it's I find working with groups of people just fascinating.
Speaker 1: It's just really really fascinating. Um, how all those dynamics
Speaker 1: come together right? And I like that idea of you know,
Speaker 1: destructive tension is when you know the desire is to
Speaker 1: um to be right. You know, that seems to be
Speaker 1: when a lot of conversation goes wrong as soon as
Speaker 1: it moves from making a point to the desire to
Speaker 1: be right. The other thing that I think is interesting
Speaker 1: about that is how that dynamic can shift in the
Speaker 1: middle of a conversation, so everybody can start from a
Speaker 1: place of good intent, but once they start to feel threatened,
Speaker 1: it's very easy to slide back into that defensive and
Speaker 1: start pushing back. And that's why you know, facilitating in
Speaker 1: those type situations can be so helpful. Oh absolutely, And
Speaker 1: and it's interesting if you're as I work with companies
Speaker 1: that really want to be innovative. You know, it's that
Speaker 1: idea of of I think destructive conflict tends to focus
Speaker 1: on a position or or you know, some kind of issue,
Speaker 1: and I say, when you can look at the source
Speaker 1: of the issue and the vision, you get again, you
Speaker 1: get movement happening, and you know it's just recently talking
Speaker 1: with somebody where they were. You know, people get caught
Speaker 1: in a solution and then the some of the conflict
Speaker 1: can be over the what they think the solution is,
Speaker 1: and they lose sight of what they're really trying to
Speaker 1: do in the long run, and they get caught at
Speaker 1: the level of of a one possibility of a solution
Speaker 1: where there exists lots of opportunity. So keeping the eye
Speaker 1: on what is it that we're trying to accomplish here
Speaker 1: is really an important thing when you're wanting to innovate
Speaker 1: and create, And even in you know, even in one
Speaker 1: on one relationships. I mean, if you're married or in
Speaker 1: an an intimate relationship of any kind, and even with
Speaker 1: your children, it's we can get locked into these little things,
Speaker 1: and I think it's really important to remember what's the
Speaker 1: bigger picture. You know, what's the bigger picture. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a great relationship. So I'm getting you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm getting all wound up about this little issue
Speaker 1: over where to go to dinner or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I'm really taking away from what it is I really
Speaker 1: want in that relationship. Same thing with children. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can get all caught up into I remember my daughter,
Speaker 1: one of my daughters, she hated to wear coats, and
Speaker 1: she always wanted to wear these big t shirts with
Speaker 1: you know, with with tights before it was popular. And
Speaker 1: you know, on one hand, it could be you know,
Speaker 1: it could be like, you know, I don't really want
Speaker 1: you to go into school like that, and you need
Speaker 1: to have a coat. And then I finally discovered, you know,
Speaker 1: if she's not cold, what's my problem? You know I
Speaker 1: And so I ended up you know, picking the battle.
Speaker 1: What's really important. I want her to feel good about
Speaker 1: her choices. Now. What's funny is she looks back on
Speaker 1: pictures back then and she says, why would you let
Speaker 1: me go out like that? And I Chris, Chris tends
Speaker 1: to run around in big sweatshirts and tights too a lot.
Speaker 1: It's kind of embarrassing for me. But like you said,
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of them do what they're gonna do.
Speaker 1: I gotta let them do what they're gonna do. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's like I want, you know, recognizing I
Speaker 1: wanted her to feel free to express herself. So and
Speaker 1: she's doing just fine in life now, right right. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about the spiral impact the you um, you
Speaker 1: talk about the power of a spiral UM. You gave
Speaker 1: a couple of examples, you know, a screw versus in
Speaker 1: nail and and you know in in In, I ke
Speaker 1: to a lot of it is you're you move in
Speaker 1: the direction that your opponents going, so you're sort of
Speaker 1: spiraling around. UM. So with the spiral impact you you have,
Speaker 1: I think that let me see if I can explain
Speaker 1: it simply, and then you tell me if I've got
Speaker 1: it right. So there are four quadrants. And when you
Speaker 1: look at accomplishing something or look at solving the problem
Speaker 1: or making a decision. The idea is to move through
Speaker 1: each of those quadrants and and take a look through
Speaker 1: each of those quadrants about how you could approach the situation.
Speaker 1: The other thing you say is if you feel stuck
Speaker 1: with something, then to do the quadrant shift. And those
Speaker 1: those four quadrants are focused, energy, support, intention, and knowledge.
Speaker 1: Did I give a reasonable basic summary? Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: And when you think about it, whether you're wanting to
Speaker 1: just make a decision, resolve a conflict, going on a project, um,
Speaker 1: get off, get off, stuck, those are all those are
Speaker 1: the four things you know. I was working with people
Speaker 1: for fifteen years and conflict resolution and I this actually
Speaker 1: that model came to me when I was practicing AIKO.
Speaker 1: It was just like I was thinking, what do people want?
Speaker 1: And then I thought, you know, people just want to
Speaker 1: do what they love and do it with some semblance
Speaker 1: of ease and grace. I think that's what everyone wants
Speaker 1: to do. And and then I don't know that that model,
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't exactly like it ended up, but
Speaker 1: it was in pretty much that format. And see that
Speaker 1: for me is you know, some of my best work
Speaker 1: and best thinking happens when I am doing something physical
Speaker 1: and I Keto is certainly that way. And and you know,
Speaker 1: to elaborate a little bit more on those those four quadrants,
Speaker 1: because you know, the knowledge is, you know, I need
Speaker 1: to know not I need to have knowledge about myself
Speaker 1: and my team members. I need to have knowledge about
Speaker 1: whatever it is that I'm involved in. And and I
Speaker 1: kind of simplify that down. You know, one of the
Speaker 1: key things is recognizing that you've got you've got a conflict,
Speaker 1: or you've got tension, or you've got a challenge. And
Speaker 1: then one of the things you do is, you know,
Speaker 1: turn your statements into questions, acknowledgements or both. And and
Speaker 1: that's something when you when you think about it, whenever
Speaker 1: you're stuck or whether you have a conflict, you usually
Speaker 1: make a lot of statements about it. They will never change.
Speaker 1: Here he goes again, I'm not very good at this.
Speaker 1: I've got this problem. Um, I'm scared to do that.
Speaker 1: So we we make a lot of statements that really
Speaker 1: reinforce that stuck nous. And we tend to make statements
Speaker 1: when we feel when we feel stuck. And so I
Speaker 1: encourage people to take those statements and turn them into questions.
Speaker 1: And when you start asking questions, you increase your level
Speaker 1: of knowledge about whatever it is. So, whether it's about
Speaker 1: understanding a person's position, whether it's about you know, some
Speaker 1: widget that you're making and somebody's experience of it, whether
Speaker 1: it's a customer service thing. But when I can ask
Speaker 1: a question, so rather than saying you know, they'll never change,
Speaker 1: I'll say, you know, I'm curious to see what we
Speaker 1: can do with this. How will this impact us differently
Speaker 1: than maybe something else? But it creates an openness. You know,
Speaker 1: if I'm I'm not very good at this, then it's like, well,
Speaker 1: what who do I know that is good at this?
Speaker 1: And what can I learn from them? But I think
Speaker 1: that whenever you've got a conflict or you feel stuck,
Speaker 1: I can say, almost universally, you're usually making some kind
Speaker 1: of statement about it, and and and so and that
Speaker 1: that seems so obvious. But most but it's so obvious
Speaker 1: that it's like we miss that and so so asking
Speaker 1: questions or acknowledging, And you know acknowledging is you know,
Speaker 1: just like wow, that this must be difficult, or I
Speaker 1: can see your you know, this must be frustrating, or
Speaker 1: you know whatever that acknowledgement is. Um is is a
Speaker 1: way of creating that connection. And again with the model
Speaker 1: of the spiral, it's moving off a face to face
Speaker 1: and it's moving so I'm looking in the same direction
Speaker 1: as the person I've got the issue with. So now
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the world as they see it, and and
Speaker 1: and and there's it's just really magical what will happen
Speaker 1: with that? So so the knowledge is an important section.
Speaker 1: The other one that you talk about is intention and
Speaker 1: um I think I understand intention in a basic sense
Speaker 1: what do I intend to do? But you talk about
Speaker 1: there being three levels of intention. What are the three levels? Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I and other people may have different ways of saying this,
Speaker 1: but I see I have a what I call a
Speaker 1: big picture intention. So that's something that's like if I'm
Speaker 1: making a widget, I want to make the best widget
Speaker 1: in the world, it's it's a really big it's my
Speaker 1: big picture. This is my thing. Now what my big
Speaker 1: picture intention is. I'd like to make spiral impact, a
Speaker 1: household word that people use when they're struggling. I need
Speaker 1: to spiral this, um So that's it's a big picture.
Speaker 1: The other level, another level is the immediate this is
Speaker 1: the this is my to do list, this is what
Speaker 1: I gotta do right now, and and so it's it's
Speaker 1: those activities. And then the other level is what I
Speaker 1: call the deeper personal level, and and that is who
Speaker 1: it is that I choose to be in the world
Speaker 1: as I'm doing this, and so it's it's a values
Speaker 1: or purpose based intention. And what I encourage people to
Speaker 1: do is to think through all three levels, because you
Speaker 1: want to have those lined up so that they all
Speaker 1: are congruent with each other. Because if you know, if
Speaker 1: if my big picture is having this fabulous work team,
Speaker 1: and my deeper personal is really a about trust and honor,
Speaker 1: but in the immediate I'm yelling and screaming at people,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm missing my mark. And so having those three
Speaker 1: things lined up is I find extremely important. And so
Speaker 1: so if I've got my big picture, which is you know,
Speaker 1: again maybe it's a high performing work team or a
Speaker 1: great marriage or whatever it is, and I have I'm
Speaker 1: really clear on my deeper personal, which my deeper personal
Speaker 1: that I carried everything I do is is a question
Speaker 1: is am I honoring myself and others always? That's my thing?
Speaker 1: And that's so I weigh my action, which is the
Speaker 1: immediate based upon those things, and and so it helps me,
Speaker 1: it guides my behavior. Is what it does to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm that I'm on target for what I
Speaker 1: want to do. Yeah, tell me about focused energy. I
Speaker 1: think all of us want focused energy. So in the
Speaker 1: in the spiral impact methodology, what is the what is
Speaker 1: that referencing? There's three topics that I addressed in that.
Speaker 1: And the one that I think is that I also
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time on when I'm working
Speaker 1: with groups is the idea of being centered. And it
Speaker 1: kind of gets back to that that good wolf and
Speaker 1: bad wolf? Is am I centered? In my calm? You
Speaker 1: know a lot of people now are talking about emotional
Speaker 1: intelligence and mindfulness, and centered is kind of the word
Speaker 1: in my lineage that we use, which is is a
Speaker 1: my calm? Do I am? I? Present? Am I? And
Speaker 1: getting back to the spiral analogy, you know, the tornado
Speaker 1: and the hurricane have a very calm eye in the middle.
Speaker 1: And the more defined and more um developed that I is,
Speaker 1: the more power the storm has. And I really believe
Speaker 1: that to be true for people as well. The more calmness,
Speaker 1: the more defined their calmness is the more power they
Speaker 1: have in a in a positive way. And so so
Speaker 1: that's one piece of it, is to really bring that
Speaker 1: sense of presence and centeredness to to what we're doing.
Speaker 1: The other parts of that that and I think I
Speaker 1: probably mentioned before is that you know, what are you
Speaker 1: what are you bringing in? Because I think about food,
Speaker 1: I think about breathing, and that type of thing is
Speaker 1: is what am I feeding? What am I feeding my
Speaker 1: body with? And doesn't make me feel better? And and
Speaker 1: I find a lot of you know, I kind of
Speaker 1: look at what often happens in organizations, and again I
Speaker 1: keep going back to organizations because that's primarily where I
Speaker 1: do my work. But I'm always amazed how organization that's
Speaker 1: concerned about their employees health and their productivity and they
Speaker 1: serve donuts for a breakfast meeting and pizza at lunch.
Speaker 1: And for me, those two food items are recipes for
Speaker 1: spaceinus and tiredness. And so do when we eat, do
Speaker 1: we eat things that make us feel better and more
Speaker 1: energetic and clearer minded? Or are we are we feeding
Speaker 1: ourselves in a way that really takes our energy our
Speaker 1: focus away from it. Same thing with breathing or you know,
Speaker 1: I work with people a lot on proper breathing, and
Speaker 1: I think, I really think breathing, good breathing is the
Speaker 1: best medicine. And I said to a client today, I
Speaker 1: think if we could get the entire country to just
Speaker 1: breathe really well for ten minutes every morning, it could
Speaker 1: change the world. It could be. The health benefits and
Speaker 1: the emotional benefits of really good breathing I think are
Speaker 1: just really really powerful and so and then the other
Speaker 1: part of that focused energy is really getting getting rest
Speaker 1: and getting good sleep. But not only good sleep. But
Speaker 1: I often think that, UM, when we have a conflict
Speaker 1: or we're challenged, UM, sometimes we might have depending on
Speaker 1: our makeup, we we want to rush to a decision
Speaker 1: or a conclusion, and sometimes we just need to let
Speaker 1: it rest. And you know, and I find a lot
Speaker 1: of times people will will have a meeting and they'll
Speaker 1: think everybody's agreed on something, and then later they you know,
Speaker 1: they get back together or they hear people talking and
Speaker 1: realize that someone isn't in agreement. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it's like malicious. I think it's what happens is people
Speaker 1: people let things percolate, let them rest, and then people
Speaker 1: have some clarity that's different than when they were all
Speaker 1: together as a group. And so I think letting big decisions,
Speaker 1: letting um, letting conflict rest is a really good thing.
Speaker 1: So that's that's those are all the focused energy pieces.
Speaker 1: And I I think probably everybody that's listening. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: make conclusions, but most people I know have experienced where
Speaker 1: they've gotten read an email that they've received from somebody
Speaker 1: and they might really upset them for some reason, and
Speaker 1: and they've hold off. But the next day they read
Speaker 1: it and it doesn't even say what you thought it said.
Speaker 1: You know, you let it go for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and you come back and look at it again and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh wow, I didn't even say what I
Speaker 1: thought it said. And so so letting things rest, I
Speaker 1: think is a really wise thing to do. Frequently. I
Speaker 1: agree it's it is. It can be enormously helpful to
Speaker 1: get a little bit of respective, particularly we're emotionally triggered. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because it just there's just something that happens that blinds
Speaker 1: us there. Yeah, And I mean I think that you know,
Speaker 1: even can big decisions. I think I kind of go
Speaker 1: with the philosophy of you know, if it's if it's
Speaker 1: a big decision. It doesn't have to be made right
Speaker 1: this minute. And if it's if it has to be
Speaker 1: made right this minute, then the answer, the answer is no,
Speaker 1: because it's it's I think having the space and time
Speaker 1: to really make sure it's a a good one is important.
Speaker 1: Rather than it's so much easier to it's so much
Speaker 1: hard I should say it's so much harder to get
Speaker 1: out of something than it is to get into something.
Speaker 1: That that is an incredibly true statement. Um, so we're
Speaker 1: nearing the end of our time. I want to talk
Speaker 1: just about the last part of the of the spiral,
Speaker 1: which is support. Yeah, well, yeah, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that's something I and I worry at times. I don't worry,
Speaker 1: that's not quite right, but you know, we all need support,
Speaker 1: and and that support really comes in a lot a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways. And I think a major support
Speaker 1: are other people. And I noticed, you know, I work
Speaker 1: by my I work out of a home office by myself,
Speaker 1: and and I really have to make sure that I
Speaker 1: connect with people because that's really an important part of support.
Speaker 1: And I and I see the work world people working
Speaker 1: more independently, and I really believe people do need to
Speaker 1: find ways of being around other people for support. But
Speaker 1: support can also be other things like journaling, I think
Speaker 1: is a really powerful thing. Um Reading, you know, your
Speaker 1: podcast I find very supportive. I listen to podcasts all
Speaker 1: the time, and finding ones where I feel like I
Speaker 1: can get some inspiration and some stimulation of thought is
Speaker 1: so important to me because I think nothing, nothing fabulous,
Speaker 1: was ever created by a lone person all by themselves.
Speaker 1: And you know that's something I think about. You know,
Speaker 1: when you think about great innovators now, Steve Jobs certainly
Speaker 1: comes to mind, and I I love some of the
Speaker 1: new literature that's coming out about him, particularly later in
Speaker 1: his life where he wasn't this lone mean wolf going
Speaker 1: barking orders at everybody. He really was more collaborative in
Speaker 1: the second time he was at Apple. And and you've
Speaker 1: got to have all those you know. The the tricky
Speaker 1: part of life is is to really be innovative and
Speaker 1: really bring things to life requires a lot of diverse
Speaker 1: talents and personalities and skills, and those that diversity also
Speaker 1: creates a lot of conflict. So um So anyway, having
Speaker 1: but having the support of all those people is what
Speaker 1: brings things forth. I got off subject there a little bit, didn't.
Speaker 1: I No, not really. I mean I think that that
Speaker 1: support is you know, that is such a I think
Speaker 1: I've realized it over the years. I have a tendency
Speaker 1: to want to be more of a lone wolf, but
Speaker 1: I've realized over time that it really is in uh
Speaker 1: with other people that the good things happen in life. Um. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there can be some really brilliant strokes of
Speaker 1: insights by yourself, but I really think it's it's then
Speaker 1: bouncing those off of other people that really make things
Speaker 1: really amazingly wonderful. So I think it's um, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all that even Einstein didn't do things all by himself.
Speaker 1: He had support groups and and I think you know,
Speaker 1: and I you know there's an old crazy hair anonymous, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that, Um, you know there's an old quote
Speaker 1: that I that that I, um, I don't know who.
Speaker 1: I can't attribute it to anybody, but it's like that's
Speaker 1: something that's held inside becomes bigger, where something shared diminishes
Speaker 1: in terms of of what we hold. And again getting
Speaker 1: back to your the one you feed, it's sometimes we
Speaker 1: need to let those wolves out. It's sure that with
Speaker 1: somebody else so that that we don't let that build
Speaker 1: inside of us. Yeah. Well, Karen, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: taking the time. It's been a pleasure talking with you.
Speaker 1: And I found the book really interested in That approach
Speaker 1: of spiraling around and and really moving in the direction
Speaker 1: of your opponent, particularly when it comes to conflict, was
Speaker 1: really really helpful to me. Great. I am so glad
Speaker 1: and I am delighted to be a guest on your show.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity. Well, you're welcome, Thank you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, take care, okay, bye bye bye. Many
Speaker 1: of our regular listeners may know that Eric also does
Speaker 1: some personal coaching for people who would like a little
Speaker 1: more of a one on one experience with the one
Speaker 1: you feed. We thought, rather than Eric explaining what he
Speaker 1: does again on this episode, we would play you one
Speaker 1: of the testimonials from one of his clients. What's great
Speaker 1: about him with the podcast and with his coaching is
Speaker 1: I feel like you can be dropped in with no experience,
Speaker 1: no mindfulness, meditative experience, no even real vocabulary. So he's
Speaker 1: perfect for the kind of everyday person that just wants
Speaker 1: to explore this stuff, and he makes it so that
Speaker 1: it's not so woo woo, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like he just keeps it real. You can learn more
Speaker 1: about Karen Valencic and this podcast at one you feed
Speaker 1: dot net slash Karen