WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Suicide Forest

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck. Jerry's here, Dave's here, you know how Dave's

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<v Speaker 1>here and this is short stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. This is a shorty from Dave Bruce, still

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<v Speaker 2>a contributor to houstie works dot com, which is great.

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<v Speaker 2>And this one everyone, we want to issue a big

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<v Speaker 2>trigger warning. It is about the Aoki Gahara Forest in Japan.

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<v Speaker 2>It has another name that people have called it the

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<v Speaker 2>suicide forest, and we're going to be talking about that

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<v Speaker 2>in this episode. And obviously that's a very touchy subject.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't want anyone to be unnecessarily triggered by it,

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<v Speaker 2>So don't listen if it's not your jam. And obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have some deep seated issues going on in

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<v Speaker 2>your life and you've had these kinds of thoughts, you

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<v Speaker 2>should call nine to eight eight, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, good, good call, Chuck, get a good call.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the other names for the Aoki Gahara

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<v Speaker 1>Forest is the Jukai, which means the sea of trees,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's because it's a huge swath of forest just

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<v Speaker 1>in the uniformous forest. Yeah, that's that flanks Mount Fuji,

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<v Speaker 1>has beautiful views of Mount Fuji. It's about a couple

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<v Speaker 1>hours drive from Tokyo, and I think it built up

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<v Speaker 1>over like a lava flow, that from an eruption in

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<v Speaker 1>eight sixty four. And one of the reasons that it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's famous not just for its views of Mount Fuji,

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<v Speaker 1>but because, like you said, it's come to be known

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<v Speaker 1>as the suicide Forest, because so many people travel to

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<v Speaker 1>Aoki Gihara and never come out on purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. There are no statistics anymore, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is great that the government of Japan has stopped.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they stopped counting, but they at

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<v Speaker 2>the very least stopped listing out statistic sticks on the

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<v Speaker 2>number of suicides there. I think there were. They stopped

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<v Speaker 2>that in sort of the mid twenty teens, but needless

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<v Speaker 2>to say, it had happened a lot, and so they said,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to, you know, publish these numbers anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>which is I think the right thing to do. But

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<v Speaker 2>where this all came from is sort of an interesting

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<v Speaker 2>story because no one knows exactly what it is. We

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<v Speaker 2>have some decent ideas. It's probably from these two books.

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<v Speaker 2>That came along much later. But for a while people

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<v Speaker 2>said it might have been this practice from like when

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<v Speaker 2>was this actually.

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<v Speaker 1>The show kusimbutsu.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Adka had a date on that.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Chuck, but it said that it's been

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<v Speaker 1>going on for at least a thousand years, or that

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<v Speaker 1>it went on for a thousand years, so it went

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<v Speaker 1>back quite quite a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but what we're talking about is a certain sect

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<v Speaker 2>of Buddhist monks, aescetic Buddhist monks who would go to

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<v Speaker 2>forrests to meditate eventually until they died. They would supposedly

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<v Speaker 2>go for like a thousand days. They would subsist on

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<v Speaker 2>leaves and bark, and then they would bury themselves alive

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<v Speaker 2>and scare quotes to continue that meditation in an underground

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<v Speaker 2>crypt in order to sort of mummify themselves while still alive.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is something that really happened. They have some

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<v Speaker 2>of these mummies on display around Japan, even though scientists

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<v Speaker 2>now think that they were mummified after they had passed away.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it wasn't just a process of I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to go bury myself in an underground crypt and stop

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<v Speaker 1>eating and drinking like this went on like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>for a thousand days, like almost three years. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>they would purposely, like eat very little amounts and drink

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<v Speaker 1>very little amounts to mummify themselves, right, rather than just die.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so this idea, some people for a while said,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe is where people got the idea that this forest

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<v Speaker 2>is where you might want to go to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that's probably true, but maybe we should

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<v Speaker 2>take a break and we'll talk about these couple of

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<v Speaker 2>books that are probably where this idea came from. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty there's a short story written by a gentleman name.

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<v Speaker 2>How would you pronounce that first name? Say, Echo Matsumoto, Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, and it was called Tower of Waves. Always

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<v Speaker 2>depend on you for Japanese pronunciation.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, then technically it's Matsumoto. What I say, I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>saying if you're depending No, I don't want to misguide you.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, that's fine. Why are you hitting me with

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<v Speaker 2>the ruler right now? It was called Tower of Waves,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's basically like a Romeo and Juliet esque plot,

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<v Speaker 2>and that there are these young kids in love who

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<v Speaker 2>are kept apart by something they can't control, and in

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<v Speaker 2>the last scene, the woman writes a farewell letter it's

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<v Speaker 2>very clearly Romeo and Juliet and takes a bottle of

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<v Speaker 2>pills and goes into that very forest to die. And

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<v Speaker 2>so a lot of people say, well, this is the

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<v Speaker 2>actual you know, for the first time that forest has

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<v Speaker 2>been linked to a suicide, at least in literature.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's probably part of it for sure. But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean in the same way that the so kushimbutsu

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<v Speaker 1>maybe gave people the idea of going off to the

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<v Speaker 1>woods to die, and this story gave them the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of going specifically the Aokigahara forest to die. There was

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<v Speaker 1>so we just have to say real quick, the West,

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<v Speaker 1>in particular uses the Japanese approach to suicide is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like a Pureian lens to like look through and

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<v Speaker 1>be like, wow, this is like, can we can shed

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<v Speaker 1>our own baggage or morality about suicide, because to us,

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese people are like, sure, kill yourself, that's your own

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<v Speaker 1>that's your jam, right, and that's not fair. That's not

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<v Speaker 1>how Japanese culture actually views suicide, and in particular, modern

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese culture abhors suicide and takes pains to prevent it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's a scar on the national psyche. But back in

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<v Speaker 1>the day, we would kind of look in on Japan

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<v Speaker 1>and see that they had like actual rashes of like

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<v Speaker 1>mass hysteria that would lead teenage girls to go jump

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<v Speaker 1>in volcanoes, which happened from the twenties to the thirties.

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<v Speaker 1>There was one girl in particular whose name was Kiyoko,

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<v Speaker 1>and she threw herself into a volcano, an active volcan

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<v Speaker 1>know Mount Mahara that wasn't in Ioka Gahara forests, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was another example of people going to nature to

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<v Speaker 1>take their own lives. And there was an article in

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<v Speaker 1>Time from nineteen thirty five that basically almost tongue in cheek,

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<v Speaker 1>covered this strange phenomenon in Japan. It really it's not

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<v Speaker 1>very kind at all, especially if you step back and

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<v Speaker 1>consider the material. But it's a good example of how

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<v Speaker 1>we just kind of misunderstand the Japanese approach to suicide.

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<v Speaker 1>They care about people taking their lives, there's just there's

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<v Speaker 1>not the like religious morality attached to it. It's still tragic,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just not you know, a slap in the face

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<v Speaker 1>of God if you do that.

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<v Speaker 2>In their culture, Yeah, and the government has really come

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<v Speaker 2>a long way and messaging this stuff out. They have

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<v Speaker 2>their own, of course, prevention in crisis hotlines and things

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<v Speaker 2>like that. In this forest. They have trained the employees

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<v Speaker 2>that work there and the volunteers who work there to

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<v Speaker 2>look out for people who maybe be by themselves or

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<v Speaker 2>look troubled. They have security cameras and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>They have messages in this park which we'll get to

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<v Speaker 2>at the end, like the sign at the end. But

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<v Speaker 2>another book that came along that probably had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>to do with it as well, was written in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety three in Japanese only called The Complete Suicide Manual

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<v Speaker 2>by Wataru Serami Sarumimi Sarumimi.

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<v Speaker 1>When I'm not doing very well, well, it's like su

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<v Speaker 1>right yeah, but that are really trips you up, so

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<v Speaker 1>you're like tou rumy, but you have to say it

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<v Speaker 1>like suui, and it just comes out like you're like

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<v Speaker 1>blowing a raspberry.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I gotcha. This is from nineteen ninety three, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, and it is, you know, there's no other

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<v Speaker 2>way to say it than it is a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>step by step ins and out manual of suicide. Whether

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<v Speaker 2>it has merit what the drawbacks might be, different ways

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<v Speaker 2>that that can happen in order to be successful. And

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<v Speaker 2>there is a portion of that book that talks about

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<v Speaker 2>this forest and as the perfect place to die, and

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<v Speaker 2>some of these manuals apparently have been found with people

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<v Speaker 2>who have gone to this forest to do just that.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, like, here's this beautiful, quiet forest. Your

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<v Speaker 2>family's not going to stumble upon you, right, You'll just

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<v Speaker 2>go on this trip and not come back.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's the thing. I think a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>who do this consider like they're considering their families or

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<v Speaker 1>their friends. They're sparing them having to find them. But

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<v Speaker 1>somebody else is going to probably find you, and they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be scarred by it. So it's not like

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<v Speaker 1>this is this doesn't affect anybody, you know, Like it

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<v Speaker 1>definitely affects the people who live near the forest, the

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<v Speaker 1>people who volunteer to go clean up the forest, and

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<v Speaker 1>the police who have to process these bodies too.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, that's sort of the long and short

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<v Speaker 2>of it. There we mentioned a sign because they've taken

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<v Speaker 2>great measures now to have more awareness on suicide in

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<v Speaker 2>Japan and especially around the forest, but there are signs

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<v Speaker 2>in the forest and as you enter the forests that

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<v Speaker 2>say your life is a precious gift from your parents.

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<v Speaker 2>Please think about your parents, siblings and children. Don't keep

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<v Speaker 2>it to yourself, talk about your troubles, and then has

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<v Speaker 2>their suicide helpline number included, which.

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<v Speaker 1>Is great, It really is. So. Yeah, that's the Ioki

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<v Speaker 1>Gahada Forest, one of the most unusual places in Japan

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<v Speaker 1>and also one of the most beautiful I've heard.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the pictures are amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I guess that's it, right, That's right, okay, everybody, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>then short stuff is out.

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