Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies.
Speaker 1: Have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy,
Speaker 1: zeph and bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: Nonmnam, Jamie, I'm hungry for.
Speaker 2: What for you?
Speaker 3: For me?
Speaker 2: For my ass?
Speaker 3: Yeah, for your ass and your titties.
Speaker 2: Egg on my ass. I thought he took her whole ass,
Speaker 2: but it turns out just a portion.
Speaker 3: Questions I'm not sure, wait, because she seems like she
Speaker 3: has her ass pretty much intact afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. But I guess I forgot again.
Speaker 2: My male gaze radar is all off, and I forgot
Speaker 2: to check the size of her ass at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the movie. Well, I was looking okay, good, good, disrespectfully.
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was gazing in a very objectifying way and
Speaker 3: I didn't notice that much of a difference.
Speaker 2: Wow, get her ass? Okay, Welcome to Wow. What a really,
Speaker 2: really feminist introduction to the episode. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: My name's Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show
Speaker 3: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
Speaker 3: the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point, as frelutely
Speaker 3: and what's that, Jamie Well.
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by Alison
Speaker 2: Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace, which is why it's
Speaker 2: often called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It was originally created
Speaker 2: as a bit for Alison Bechdel's iconic I host was
Speaker 2: an iconic comic collection Nice to Watch out for, but
Speaker 2: eventually it became used as a sort of metric to
Speaker 2: see if people care about characters of marginalized genders, and
Speaker 2: the answer is often know. Today, I think we have
Speaker 2: a great discussion ahead. Yes, So the version of the
Speaker 2: test that we use a little bit of a modified version,
Speaker 2: requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names
Speaker 2: speak to each other about something other than a man
Speaker 2: for two lines of dialogue or more. Yeah, that's sort
Speaker 2: of what we're up to. I appreciate if nothing else,
Speaker 2: the movie we're talking about today really warns you about
Speaker 2: men from Oregon, And I think that's a really important
Speaker 2: psa that I rarely see reflected in film. To all
Speaker 2: of our listeners in organ can't wait to see you
Speaker 2: at the next live show. But like men from Oregon
Speaker 2: scary scary to me personally in my lived experience, I'm
Speaker 2: afraid of them in my lived experience. They want to
Speaker 2: steal my ass and eat it. That's just my lived experience.
Speaker 3: Sure to sure that hasn't happened to me yet. Time
Speaker 3: will tell.
Speaker 2: I was about to say, well, it's just a matter
Speaker 2: of time. It's just a matter of time. You meet
Speaker 2: them in a different city and then you find out
Speaker 2: month's sin they're from Oregon, and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: this man's trying to kill me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyways, we're covering Fresh twenty twenty two, originally released
Speaker 3: on Hulu. Was it, I believe Jamie? What's your relationship
Speaker 3: slash history with the movie?
Speaker 2: Well, first, I just realized that the character played by
Speaker 2: Sebastian stand is in fact from Texas. So I would
Speaker 2: like to modify as he tells us. And so actually
Speaker 2: I would just like to say, Men who Live Live,
Speaker 2: I'd like to totally backtrack everything I said. I was
Speaker 2: just trying to be rude to an ex boyfriend. There's
Speaker 2: plenty of time left in the episode to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: In any case, my history with this movie is that
Speaker 2: I had not seen it. I meant to and then didn't,
Speaker 2: as so very often happens to me with movies on streamers.
Speaker 2: It's weird. I feel like I used to be sort
Speaker 2: of the reverse of this, but now it's like I
Speaker 2: am much less likely to watch a movie if I
Speaker 2: if I don't get a chance to watch it in theaters.
Speaker 3: You're a theater girly.
Speaker 2: Now I'm a theater girl. I'm an AFC Stubbs passholder.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would have loved to see this in theaters.
Speaker 2: It's a bummer that that didn't happen. I don't know
Speaker 2: if there was like a limited release or something, but
Speaker 2: but yeah, I really like the stars of this movie,
Speaker 2: Daisy Egga Jones and of course Itanio's own Sebastian Stan.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: So I was excited to see it and i'd never
Speaker 2: seen I know that this was the director Mimi Cave's
Speaker 2: feature length debut, which is wild. I feel like it's
Speaker 2: such a fully realized thing. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's
Speaker 2: a brief and uncomplicated history with this movie.
Speaker 3: What about you, Caitlin, I did see it about a
Speaker 3: year ago. Maybe not right when it came out, but
Speaker 3: within not too long of it being released. Our mutual
Speaker 3: friend Bryant and I watched it together and I thought
Speaker 3: it was interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: I already knew what it was about. It's about cannibalism,
Speaker 3: and I knew that going in, so I wasn't like
Speaker 3: surprised at the twist or anything.
Speaker 2: I kind of was surprised at well, if we can
Speaker 2: talk about like pacing good stuff. Yeah, because I also
Speaker 2: felt I hadn't even seen the trailer for it. I
Speaker 2: don't think, but I knew what this movie was about,
Speaker 2: like maybe just through like hearsay or whatever it was.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but yeah, it takes a long time for
Speaker 2: it to reveal that it's a cannibal movie for a
Speaker 2: movie that it seems like everyone knows is a cannibal movie, right,
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do? I did earlier today write
Speaker 3: a letter boxed.
Speaker 2: Review bra I've never done before.
Speaker 3: Yes, simply states this movie gives new meaning to the
Speaker 3: term meet cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta hand it to you. I gotta hand
Speaker 2: it to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. But anyway, Yeah, I saw the movie.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that was pretty cool, and now
Speaker 3: we're talking about it, so let's proceed, shall we.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited. Yeah, there is a certain amount of
Speaker 2: like Catharsis, to watch a good movie like this, for sure,
Speaker 2: I quite enjoy So if nothing else, I feel like,
Speaker 2: there it's a good opportunity for us to publicly air
Speaker 2: out some personal dating horrors. And isn't that beautiful?
Speaker 3: That's honestly a lot of what my discussion will be
Speaker 3: about here today.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, then welcome to a gossip with us, because yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like I really enjoyed this movie, and part
Speaker 2: of it was because they were just like you could
Speaker 2: just tell that it was written by a woman who
Speaker 2: has to date men. Just there were like these little
Speaker 2: details that you're like ooh oof, no eh hah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that including like there's nothing more bone chilling than being
Speaker 2: in a man's home and there's no signal and you're
Speaker 2: like scary. I hate to ruin the mood, but I
Speaker 2: remember having to do that once, being like I hate
Speaker 2: to like wreck the mood, but like I need you
Speaker 2: to give me the Wi Fi just in case you
Speaker 2: want to kill me, and like, but you just have
Speaker 2: to be direct about it because honestly, at that point,
Speaker 2: if he's gonna kill you, he would just start at
Speaker 2: the request.
Speaker 3: This is true.
Speaker 2: It's not like I can change my fate at this point.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like that reminded me of a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago we were just like, oh my god, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you have to be like, hey, I'm awkward, but I
Speaker 2: need to be able to call nine one one in
Speaker 2: case you're horrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, so we just covered get Out and I
Speaker 3: watched this movie on the same day that we covered,
Speaker 3: So I like watched it out in the morning we
Speaker 3: recorded that episode, and then like later that night I
Speaker 3: watched Fresh so Wild. What a day?
Speaker 2: What a day for you?
Speaker 3: But the movie follows similar beats in the sense that
Speaker 3: it's like someone who goes to this unfamiliar place with
Speaker 3: a romantic partner. They have alterior motives. Yeah, the protagonist
Speaker 3: gets abducted, they have to try to escape, death is
Speaker 3: or you know, loss of autonomy is imminent. You know,
Speaker 3: lots of stuff like that, and then a victorious, triumphant
Speaker 3: escape from the protagonist at the end. So like, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously very different stories, but like following similar beats.
Speaker 2: Similar beats. I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's very
Speaker 2: very true. Similar friend to the rescue thing. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 2: although I did love that they had oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: what is this character's name bartender?
Speaker 3: Oh, Paul Paul.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that they did have Paul be like no.
Speaker 3: No, he shows up to help and then he's like
Speaker 3: never mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're just like, well, I you know, I
Speaker 2: wish he had called someone else, but I don't not
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 3: Right because he's well, we'll talk about him. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I found that interesting.
Speaker 2: I thought that was an interesting fake out because you
Speaker 2: I think maybe it is because we just watched to
Speaker 2: get Out. I kept waiting for like the TSA moments
Speaker 2: at the end of get Out, you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: he's gonna leave. I guess that that is like pretty realistic.
Speaker 3: Anyways, I'll do the recap and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: Actually, let's take a quick break first and then we'll
Speaker 3: come back.
Speaker 4: Oh all right, welcome back.
Speaker 3: Will you're back?
Speaker 2: Sharpen your freaking blades.
Speaker 3: Baby, oh or your teeth, because I just stand i'snna
Speaker 3: eat your s sebashians Stan, Like, what is going on there?
Speaker 2: I've been trying to figure out what is going on there?
Speaker 2: For years? What's going on there?
Speaker 3: Because I remember you saying you could not register who
Speaker 3: that person was until Titania came out, and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: now I know who he is because he plays is
Speaker 3: it Jeff Galuley, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2: We're a great recall.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Uh yes, I think that maybe you know, in retrospect,
Speaker 2: my issue with registering Sebashians Stan's face had more to
Speaker 2: do with like Marvel glaze sure, where he was in
Speaker 2: a lot of Marvel movies. And I feel like, this
Speaker 2: is my theory, if you are in like enough Marvel movies,
Speaker 2: your face just becomes naturally blurry to the human eye
Speaker 2: for like five years, but then it wears off and
Speaker 2: you're like, and he's and he's doing I haven't I
Speaker 2: don't know. I saw the Donald Trump movie and I
Speaker 2: was like.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
Speaker 2: But in any case, like he's he's a good actor,
Speaker 2: and I feel like he tries a lot of interesting stuff.
Speaker 2: But this was around the time where he was starting
Speaker 2: to try more interesting stuff instead of just playing like
Speaker 2: the Ppee Warrior or like whoever he is in Marvel?
Speaker 2: Is he the Pepee Warrior? Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's correct. Is he the Winter Soldier or
Speaker 3: is someone else the Winter Soldier? Don't answer my question, listeners,
Speaker 3: I don't want to know, actually don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, congratulations to Sebashianstan for the blur finally
Speaker 2: wearing off of his face. I do register him now
Speaker 2: as an autonomous human man. And I think he's quite talented.
Speaker 3: H yeah, no, but I agree it. Tanya really did
Speaker 3: it for me. And while he plays a despicable character
Speaker 3: in that movie, he is unfortunately so hot.
Speaker 2: He's really hot in that movie, specifically the little mustache.
Speaker 2: You're like, I know, what is it? And You're like
Speaker 2: it's my dad. Like You're like, what the fun? Anyways, anyways,
Speaker 2: let's keep moving. I do appreciate, like I feel like,
Speaker 2: and this will change the next time we talk about
Speaker 2: Sebastian Stan. None of this passes the Bechdel test. But
Speaker 2: he has, like I appreciate when an actor recognizes they
Speaker 2: have like a somewhat punishable kind of handsome face, because
Speaker 2: Sebastia stand like he's like villainous handsome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: Anyways, Daisy Egar Jones was great in Twisters. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: under the banner of Heaven, did you watch that.
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really depressing. Don't watch it unless you want
Speaker 2: to get really upset.
Speaker 3: I feel like I know of it because you made
Speaker 3: a joke to the effect of under the banner of
Speaker 3: Kevin le mignonk you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't know if
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a way to bring that up organically. Yes,
Speaker 2: I would absolutely watch under the banner of Kevin, under
Speaker 2: the banner of Heaven, it's you know, it's an Andrew
Speaker 2: Garfield Police detective show. I would say, maybe too sad,
Speaker 2: maybe don't watch.
Speaker 3: But under the banner of Kevin. Yes, anyway, Yes, let's
Speaker 3: get it. Yeah, let's keep moving a lot.
Speaker 2: I like Chaos episode, Chaos episode.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 3: Right. So this is a horror movie, so you know
Speaker 3: content warnings. There's violence against women, there's abduction, there's human trafficking,
Speaker 3: there's cannibalism. The movie takes place in the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 3: in Portland, specifically, I believe.
Speaker 2: Yes we meet.
Speaker 3: Noah played by Daisy Edgar Jones. She's a single lady
Speaker 3: looking for, if not love, she's just dating. She's out
Speaker 3: there dating, going on dates. She goes on a first
Speaker 3: date with a guy who ends up being a total asshole.
Speaker 3: She's not having luck on the dating apps. Men are
Speaker 3: being gross and sending her dick pics unsolicited things like
Speaker 3: that her best friend Molly played by Jojo t. Gibb
Speaker 3: reassures Noah that she doesn't need a man, and they've
Speaker 3: just been conditioned by Disney Princess movies to have unrealistic
Speaker 3: expectations about love and romance.
Speaker 2: And you're like, okay, twenty twelve, let's freaking go buzzby
Speaker 2: twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: So one night, Noah heads to the grocery store to
Speaker 3: grab some treats. A guy there strikes up a conversation
Speaker 3: with her about cotton candy grapes. This is Steve played
Speaker 3: by Sebastian Stan.
Speaker 2: Okay, Mistake number one, don't go on a date with
Speaker 2: someone you meet in the vegetable aisle.
Speaker 3: Proceed with caution. I would say, well.
Speaker 2: I just the vegetables. Like if I met a guy,
Speaker 2: you know, near the macaroni, I would be like sure,
Speaker 2: you'd be like, ooh, yeah.
Speaker 3: I did have a guy approach me in the grocery
Speaker 3: store one time. This was back when I lived in Boston,
Speaker 3: so probably like twelve years ago. Okay, and he was
Speaker 3: just like, hi, You're so beautiful, and.
Speaker 2: I said, who me?
Speaker 3: And then we did go on a like coffee date.
Speaker 3: I want to say, like later that day. It was
Speaker 3: like a Saturday or Sunday, when I was just like, fu,
Speaker 3: I'm not doing anything.
Speaker 2: You almost got freshed.
Speaker 3: I almost got freshed. But I quickly realized that I
Speaker 3: was not romantically interested in him, and I said, I'm
Speaker 3: going to leave forever now bye.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I saved myself from being freshed. Good for you,
Speaker 3: Good for you, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm constantly putting myself in situations where
Speaker 2: I could possibly get freshed. It's a common criticism of me.
Speaker 2: I mean, but so far, so good.
Speaker 3: So far so good, and it's not your fault if
Speaker 3: it happens.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's be honest when.
Speaker 3: Well, let's try not to put that out into the universe.
Speaker 3: But anyway, she's approached by this, you know, charming guy
Speaker 3: who's trying to flirt and he asks for her number,
Speaker 3: and he's Sebastian Stan So she says yes, and she
Speaker 3: gives him her number.
Speaker 2: Who could blame her? She's but human, all right.
Speaker 3: A few days later he texts her and they meet
Speaker 3: up for a date and they hit it off. It
Speaker 3: seems like they have a lot in common. They smooch,
Speaker 3: they go back to her place, and Jamie they have sex.
Speaker 2: Don't tell me that you should have done a content
Speaker 2: warning for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah sorry at the X Yeah stop. This episode is
Speaker 3: rated R okay. So some time passes and they keep
Speaker 3: seeing each other. It's going well, it's cute. He even
Speaker 3: suggests they go away together on a weekend trip, but Mollie,
Speaker 3: her best friend, is a bit wary of this because
Speaker 3: he doesn't have social media, she's never met him, she
Speaker 3: doesn't nobody looks like. She doesn't like that this trip
Speaker 3: is this like surprise that he's kind of springing on Noah,
Speaker 3: especially because like she doesn't know where they're going. But
Speaker 3: they're like whatever, it will be fine. And so Steve
Speaker 3: picks up Noah and they head to his place before
Speaker 3: going to whatever this destination is, which turns out to
Speaker 3: be Cottage Grove, Oregon, and also where he lives seems
Speaker 3: to be a several hour drive away from the city
Speaker 3: because by the time they get there it's dark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little confused about that, but also,
Speaker 2: I mean I can definitely relate with, even though this
Speaker 2: kind of stretches credulity a little bit, the feeling of like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, like someone that you like being like
Speaker 2: this is normal, And then I've definitely been a person
Speaker 2: that's like, ah, yeah, totally and this is regular for me,
Speaker 2: Like it's unfortunately definitely a thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you like want to put your trust into
Speaker 3: someone that you like, and so you're just like, sure,
Speaker 3: everything's fine, although we do see Noah seeming a bit
Speaker 3: uneasy about this because she gets to the house, she
Speaker 3: wants to connect to the Wi fi there's no cell service,
Speaker 3: and you know, he ignores that. He makes her a
Speaker 3: drink which he has drugged, and Noah loses consciousness. And
Speaker 3: then we get the title card and the opening credits,
Speaker 3: which is like thirty minutes into the movie. So surprise,
Speaker 3: the movie's called Fresh. So it turns out Steve is
Speaker 3: the bad guy. Yeah, Noah wakes up in a windowless room,
Speaker 3: her arm is chained to the floor, and we're like, okay,
Speaker 3: saw vibes Savva.
Speaker 2: I was also thinking of ten Cloverfield Lane, a movie
Speaker 2: I really.
Speaker 3: Like, Oh, I need to rewatch that.
Speaker 2: I remember really liking it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, so did I except for I remember
Speaker 3: thinking the end and I'll try not to say any
Speaker 3: spoilers here, but the end felt tacked on and that
Speaker 3: it belonged in a different movie.
Speaker 2: The end was really weird. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, also because you find out that that was a
Speaker 3: script written on spec I think that had nothing to
Speaker 3: do with the Cloverfield franchise, right, And then they bought
Speaker 3: the script and then like co opted it into a
Speaker 3: Cloverfield movie, and so you're just like, what, it doesn't
Speaker 3: make any sense anyway. Okay, So she wakes up in
Speaker 3: this room chained to the wall, but instead of Jigsaw
Speaker 3: on a tape recorder saying let's play a game, Steve
Speaker 3: is in the room and he explains that he drugged
Speaker 3: Noah and that he intends to keep her trapped there,
Speaker 3: chop off pieces of her and sell her meat because
Speaker 3: people pay him a lot of money for human meat.
Speaker 3: And he says he's going to keep her alive as
Speaker 3: long as possible because the fresher the meat the bat
Speaker 3: and the more valuable it is. And we're like, hey,
Speaker 3: the name of the movie is Fresh.
Speaker 2: And they meet in the Fresh produce isle.
Speaker 3: Uh huh, and she's standing under a sign that says
Speaker 3: fresh meets.
Speaker 2: Wow, and that's just a little joke he's doing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the movie is called Fresh. The movie's called Fresh, and
Speaker 2: you won't forget it as you're watching the movie Fresh.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's like, I won't kill you right away
Speaker 3: unless you act up, in which case he'll kill her sooner.
Speaker 3: So Noah is obviously terrified because, believe it or not,
Speaker 3: she wants to keep her meat on her body. Molly, meanwhile,
Speaker 3: is trying to call and text Noah because Molly hasn't
Speaker 3: heard from her, and she gets a text response and
Speaker 3: it's clear to us the audience that it's Steve pretending
Speaker 3: to be Noah. So back in Noah's dungeon room, she's screaming,
Speaker 3: she's crying. She hears a voice coming from the room
Speaker 3: next time her. This is Penny played by Andrea Bang,
Speaker 3: saying that Steve isn't there right now and that she's
Speaker 3: in the same situation as Noah, although Steve has already
Speaker 3: started cutting off parts of her to sell her meat.
Speaker 3: And there's a third woman, Melissa, although she has been
Speaker 3: there for a while and it seems that she has
Speaker 3: like lost her mind. Steve comes back and we see
Speaker 3: him cut up Melissa's amputated leg. He's tenderizing the meat,
Speaker 3: he seals it, he packages it into a few different boxes.
Speaker 2: And he's like basically doing I mean, there is a
Speaker 2: portion of this movie where Sebastian Stan is like, remember
Speaker 2: Christian Bale in American Psycho, I'm kind of doing that.
Speaker 2: Like the you know, the needle drops and stuff felt
Speaker 2: very reminiscent of American Psycho.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, you half expect Sebastian Stan to start
Speaker 3: monologuing about Huey Lewis in the news or Whitney Houston
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: Right right, Like he's not as far, god, but I mean,
Speaker 2: what kind of yardstick is that?
Speaker 4: But yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Grooving around with his victims to like eighties music, You're like,
Speaker 2: I know this, I know for some reason this is
Speaker 2: a trope, right, yes.
Speaker 3: And he's like putting the meat in these like little
Speaker 3: care packages along with like the photos of the women
Speaker 3: and like articles of their clothing and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: It seems like he always like says to these women,
Speaker 3: let's go on a trip, and then that way they
Speaker 3: pack a bag full of stuff and then he steals
Speaker 3: it and anyway, so.
Speaker 2: He's objectifying women. Would we agree that he views women
Speaker 2: as proud objects? What do you mean? That was the
Speaker 2: thought I had? It wasn't the very end of the movie.
Speaker 2: But well, let's just go on a second. Wait, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, A looks like this guy respects ladies at all.
Speaker 3: Right, all right, So Noah is determined to get out
Speaker 3: of this situation. She tells Steve that she needs to
Speaker 3: take a shower, which he is about to let her do,
Speaker 3: so he leads her upstairs. She takes note of her surroundings,
Speaker 3: but then she tries to break free and escape, and
Speaker 3: Steve stops her. When she wakes up again, she's on
Speaker 3: a surgical bed and he is surgically removing her buttocks.
Speaker 2: Wilds.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Mollie, meanwhile, is still concerned, and she starts digging
Speaker 3: and realizes that the picture that Noah quote unquote texted
Speaker 3: of her trip is actually a stock photo from a website.
Speaker 3: So Molly knows something's up.
Speaker 2: Also, like the second your good friend starts texting you
Speaker 2: fully punctuated sentences, You're like, they've been kidnapped, They've been taken. Yeah,
Speaker 2: your close friend would never send you a full sentence
Speaker 2: in a text that's absurd.
Speaker 3: Also, you see Molly's face have this like book of
Speaker 3: incredulity when she sends a heart emoji, and it almost
Speaker 3: seems like, oh, she never uses emojis. That wasn't established,
Speaker 3: And I feel like that maybe would have been helpful
Speaker 3: to establish that, like Noah never uses emojis. But you
Speaker 3: see her be suspicious Molly. That is when she gets
Speaker 3: the heart emoji, and that's when she starts kind of investigating.
Speaker 3: She sees the stock photo, and so she goes to
Speaker 3: the bar where Noah went on her first date with Steve,
Speaker 3: and she asks the bartender, Paul played by theo Okinewe,
Speaker 3: who is a former lover of Molly's. They used to
Speaker 3: like have a casual hookup situation, it seemed, and she
Speaker 3: asks Paul to give her any info on Steve, like
Speaker 3: his last name from the credit card that he paid with,
Speaker 3: and Paul eventually gives Molly Steve's full name. So she
Speaker 3: gets to googling, and it seems like Steve has a
Speaker 3: wife and two young k kids, and she finds out
Speaker 3: where he lives. Back in the Dungeon, Noah confides in
Speaker 3: Penny that she slept with Steve and Penny is like, oh, whoa,
Speaker 3: Like none of the rest of us did, but I'm
Speaker 3: not shaming you. It's probably a compliment. Actually, yeah.
Speaker 2: Penny is like through the wall comments are very very funny,
Speaker 2: where she's like no shame, no shame, but like wow.
Speaker 3: Whoa right? And then when Noah asks Steve why he
Speaker 3: slept with her, he's like, yeah, I told you, I
Speaker 3: like you. Then in a magazine that Steve gave Noah
Speaker 3: to like help her pass the time, Noah notices writing
Speaker 3: from another woman and it says like, if you're reading this,
Speaker 3: it means he likes you. Use it keep fucking fighting.
Speaker 3: And then it's signed Sammy Akbari. So Noah, taking this advice,
Speaker 3: tries a new tactic where she asks Steve what the
Speaker 3: human meat tastes like and he's like, oh, it's exquisite.
Speaker 3: Why do you ask, though, And she's like ha ha,
Speaker 3: I don't know, just curious, and he's like.
Speaker 2: Hmm, I still haven't seen Silence of the Lambs? Is
Speaker 2: he Hannibal Electering now? Is he like oscillating between.
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't getting Hannibal Lecter vibes from Steve, but
Speaker 3: isn't Hannibal elector a cannibal. I mean, he says like,
Speaker 3: I ate her liver with fava beans in a nice kianti.
Speaker 2: But he's just a killer. He's not like a down
Speaker 2: home cannibal.
Speaker 3: Well like Hannibal Lecter. I don't think we at least
Speaker 3: in Silence of the Lambs. I haven't seen the other
Speaker 3: Like there's Hannibal and then there's Red Dragon, and then
Speaker 3: there's a show and you know, the sequels and the
Speaker 3: spinoffs and stuff like that, I haven't seen. But in
Speaker 3: Silence of the Lambs, you never see Hannibal. He's not
Speaker 3: like a flirty, charming, handsome young guy who's.
Speaker 2: Like, wow, just drag him. She's kill Sorry, sorry, you're
Speaker 2: like geez, he's just scary.
Speaker 3: So he he has a different approach than Steve.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, thank you, I need it. I wanted to know.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Mollie goes to Steve's house where he lives with
Speaker 3: his family, so like his other home, not the one
Speaker 3: that he has a whole like cannibalism laboratory at and
Speaker 3: Mollie tells his wife Anne played by Charlotte Lebon, that
Speaker 3: her friend Noah has been seeing Steve, and Anne is
Speaker 3: like I are you sure that that doesn't sound right?
Speaker 3: And then Steve comes home, so Mollie sees him and
Speaker 3: he denies that he knows Noah. So Molly calls Noah's phone,
Speaker 3: which Steve has on him, and it starts ringing, so
Speaker 3: he's busted. But twist, his wife is in on the
Speaker 3: whole operation, and she knocks Molly out.
Speaker 2: The thing that is interesting about this movie is I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it, and none of the twists surprised me. Like,
Speaker 2: I feel like the second you see her haircut, you're like,
Speaker 2: she's in on it.
Speaker 3: You know, she does give off vibes that are a
Speaker 3: little too sinister for me to be super surprised by
Speaker 3: that twist. Yeah, so Ann the wife is in on
Speaker 3: this whole cannibalism operation thing. And then we get another
Speaker 3: reveal that she Anne has a prosthetic leg. Presumably she
Speaker 3: was one of Steve's former victims. She's a survivor of
Speaker 3: this situation. And then he spared Anne and married her.
Speaker 3: Is what you can like gather. Then Steve basically invites
Speaker 3: Noah on a little date upstairs where he prepares a
Speaker 3: dinner of human meat her and the whole time she
Speaker 3: is like, you know, calculating away out of there.
Speaker 2: Freaks a whole new you need to girl dinner, am I? Right?
Speaker 1: WHOA?
Speaker 3: So anyway, she's like feigning interest in the line of
Speaker 3: work he's in, you know, the cannibalism industry, and he's
Speaker 3: telling her about it, and she's like, uh huh, and
Speaker 3: she asks if he only eats women, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's where the market is, plus they taste better. And
Speaker 3: then she eats some human meat from a woman named Hope,
Speaker 3: and then he brings her back to her room after
Speaker 3: the date. She makes herself throw up this meal because
Speaker 3: you know, she obviously only ate it to manipulate him,
Speaker 3: but it's working and he wants to have dinner with
Speaker 3: her again the following night. Then we see Steve take
Speaker 3: Mollie out of of her like dungeon enclosure. Noah doesn't
Speaker 3: know that Mollie is there, although she does realize that
Speaker 3: some new woman is present, and then Steve cuts part
Speaker 3: of Molly off. Also, Mollie had shared her location with Paul,
Speaker 3: and he sees that she's somewhere far away, and then
Speaker 3: her location becomes unavailable entirely, and so he's like, hmm,
Speaker 3: that's weird, and then he'll eventually set off to go
Speaker 3: find her. Then it's time for the next little date
Speaker 3: between Noah and Steve, and she's being very flirty and familiar,
Speaker 3: and she's like clearly trying to put Steve at ease
Speaker 3: and get him very comfortable to like let his guard
Speaker 3: down and all that stuff. They eat Melissa liver pete.
Speaker 3: They also eat breast meat, which I think might belong
Speaker 3: to Molly, because I feel like it's implied what's being
Speaker 3: removed from her is Molly's breasts.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, because I also was just like very un
Speaker 2: clear on I mean not that I'm like be more specific,
Speaker 2: but like I was kind of unclear on just the
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of YadA YadA when it comes
Speaker 2: to the healing process, for sure, because I just feel
Speaker 2: like if someone took even half of my ass, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be like I can sit down for a date
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 3: You would think it would take a lot longer to heal.
Speaker 2: As a horror fan, I feel like it's almost a
Speaker 2: missed opportunity to like do some like And he has
Speaker 2: this freaky chair he designed for women without asses, Like
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I feel like she does sit on one of those
Speaker 3: like little cushioned donuts.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. But wow, he does care.
Speaker 3: He thinks of everything. This Steve also another reason I
Speaker 3: think it's Molly's because he doesn't specify whose breasts they're eating.
Speaker 3: He says the other names of the other uh oh,
Speaker 3: but he does.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want her to know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he shows her this stash of all the belongings
Speaker 3: from like the women he has abducted, as well as
Speaker 3: photos of them. So Noah sees Melissa and Penny and
Speaker 3: Sammy who had left the note in the magazine, as
Speaker 3: well as all their phones. So now she like knows
Speaker 3: where the phones are. And then she really turns up
Speaker 3: the charm, except well, she's like, she gets very vulnerable
Speaker 3: and she's crying and he's like, come your babe, it's okay.
Speaker 3: And then they start kissing, and then they dance and
Speaker 3: they start fooling around and she's about to go down
Speaker 3: on him, but then she bites his dick off. Question mark,
Speaker 3: I hope, So I hope.
Speaker 2: So again a little unclear. I kind of wonder if
Speaker 2: this wasn't like available on Disney Plus, like if you
Speaker 2: would really get to see it. It is so weird.
Speaker 2: I added Hulu to my Disney Plus and now it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's cheaper, it really is, like, but no, it's funny.
Speaker 2: Like when you add Hulu to Disney Plus, it just
Speaker 2: defeats the purpose of Disney Plus entirely because you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I feel like Disney Plus used to be really discerning
Speaker 2: about like it has to be family friendly. And you're like,
Speaker 2: now I can watch Daisy Egar Jones like bite someone's
Speaker 2: dick off right after Nightmare before Christmas or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean funny juxtaposition. Yeah, but anyway, she
Speaker 3: bites his dick off, or at least bites it enough
Speaker 3: that it draws a lot of blood, and she smears
Speaker 3: toothpaste in his eyes. And then she grabs a phone,
Speaker 3: grabs some keys, starts to escape, but first she saves
Speaker 3: Molly and Penny and the three of them.
Speaker 2: You're like, what about Melissa.
Speaker 3: Melissa's presumed dead because she no longer has a liver.
Speaker 3: They ate her liver, So I think that implies I.
Speaker 2: Guess I don't know how bodies work. I'm like, don't you.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of kidneys, and I'm thinking of kidneys because
Speaker 2: you well you need you don't have two livers, well,
Speaker 2: I know, but you can live without one kidney. I
Speaker 2: just was like, livers, you have two, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just the one liver and they ate it. So
Speaker 3: Melissa is probably dead, so she can't save her, but
Speaker 3: she does save Penny and Mollie, and the three of
Speaker 3: them fight off Steve with knives and meat tender risers,
Speaker 3: and they managed to get outside into the woods, but
Speaker 3: Steve comes after them with a gun. He's shooting at them.
Speaker 3: He is absolutely furious that Noah tricked him. Meanwhile, Paul
Speaker 3: has driven to Steve's house to try to find Molly,
Speaker 3: but he's like, this is creepy, and then he hears
Speaker 3: the gunshots, and so he leaves, being like I've seen
Speaker 3: this movie and I don't make it out alive, you know,
Speaker 3: commenting on how black people often do not survive horror movies. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so he leaves.
Speaker 2: I did keep expecting him to come back. Same, but
Speaker 2: I kind of like that he doesn't, like, I mean,
Speaker 2: because they liberate themselves.
Speaker 3: True. I was like, I hope he's at least nearby
Speaker 3: so that they can get a ride home from him.
Speaker 2: They are very far away, very and I mean as
Speaker 2: we're about to talk about, like the ending of this
Speaker 2: movie is very abrupt.
Speaker 3: It is, yeah, although maybe you know, everyone ends up dead,
Speaker 3: so maybe they just like take the keys to one
Speaker 3: of Sebastian Stan's cars and drive.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even mean that as a criticism.
Speaker 2: I was just like, oh, yeah, I guess it's yeah.
Speaker 3: Anyway. So Paul leaves, but Steve's wife Anne shows up
Speaker 3: at the house. She sees that Steve is in danger,
Speaker 3: but Noah, Molly, and Penny get to him first. Noah
Speaker 3: grabs his gun and shoots him in the head, killing him.
Speaker 3: Then Noah goes back into the woods to get her phone,
Speaker 3: which she dropped, and Anne approaches her, pretending to be
Speaker 3: one of Steve's victims. Then she attacks Noah, but Molly
Speaker 3: saves her and bashes in Anne's head with a shovel,
Speaker 3: and then the movie ends with Noah and Molly embracing
Speaker 3: plus a little button where Noah gets a text from
Speaker 3: I think, the guy she went on a date with
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the movie saying like you up
Speaker 3: the end. So that's the movie. Let's take another quick
Speaker 3: break and we'll come back to discuss. And we're back
Speaker 3: we're back.
Speaker 2: So, okay, here's my big I'm just gonna come in
Speaker 2: with my big question. I say it, Okay. I feel
Speaker 2: like the characters are generally underdeveloped, but in particular, I
Speaker 2: feel like it really stands out with Molly's character. I
Speaker 2: feel like the black best friend trope is being sort
Speaker 2: of ployed pretty heavily here. Yeah, I guess what I
Speaker 2: will say is that, like I wouldn't say that, you know,
Speaker 2: we know Noah so well and we don't know anything
Speaker 2: about Molly, like I would say, we don't really know
Speaker 2: either of these characters very well. But it's just the
Speaker 2: the trope of like, while Mollie is a very active character,
Speaker 2: and I like that their friendship is at the core
Speaker 2: of the movie, and you can read in this message
Speaker 2: of like, you know, Steve's maybe biggest mistake with Noah
Speaker 2: is to assume that a lack of biological family in
Speaker 2: her life means that no one cares about her, and
Speaker 2: that she has found family with Molly and all this
Speaker 2: stuff like that is great. I like friendship between women
Speaker 2: at the core of a story. But you know, while
Speaker 2: Molly is a very active character, she's in the story
Speaker 2: to service no you know what I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know for sure, did that come.
Speaker 3: Up for you? Definitely, especially because in the first like
Speaker 3: several scenes we either see Molly in or like hear
Speaker 3: her in a phone conversation. She is just like giving
Speaker 3: advice to her straight white friend because we learned the
Speaker 3: Molly is queer, she dates men and women.
Speaker 2: It was to the point where I was like, I
Speaker 2: wonder if this is gonna be a trope that's like
Speaker 2: commented on within the movie, because it felt pretty like
Speaker 2: obvious what trope is happening there, but it's not really
Speaker 2: commented on where yeah, she's just weirdly fixated on the
Speaker 2: relationship of her straight white friend and you're just like, God,
Speaker 2: what year is it?
Speaker 4: Come on?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you do see Mollie talking about like what it's
Speaker 3: like to date women and how there are fewer games
Speaker 3: and there's more emotional dependence, which she's saying it seems
Speaker 3: like ingest you know, she's kind of joking around, because
Speaker 3: that's otherwise a pretty like reductive thing to say, but
Speaker 3: it seems like she's joking. But I was like, well,
Speaker 3: can't we see that then to give like Molly more
Speaker 3: interior life, like see her dating women and what that
Speaker 3: does look like in contrast to Noah dating men, that
Speaker 3: would develop Molly's character a bit more and make it
Speaker 3: so that she has more interiority versus everything she does
Speaker 3: is in service of her straight white best friend. I
Speaker 3: do feel like she is that Mollie is integrated into
Speaker 3: the story more meaningfully than I was expecting, because she does,
Speaker 3: like go to investigate and then she helps to defeat
Speaker 3: Steve and she kills Anne. But it still means that
Speaker 3: everything she does is to like help her white best friend.
Speaker 2: Right. It's tricky because I do yeah, Mollie does become
Speaker 2: a very I mean, the movie can't happen without Molly.
Speaker 2: It's not like she's strictly there and in the way
Speaker 2: that I feel like we see this trope in other
Speaker 2: movies where it's like a very expendable character who's just
Speaker 2: there to basically be like, so, how are you feeling
Speaker 2: about the relationship? So, like I will give the writer
Speaker 2: Lauren Kahn like credit for you know, this movie is
Speaker 2: not possible without Molly. She's integral to the plot. For
Speaker 2: she's extremely active, like she's smart, like my favorite scenes
Speaker 2: with Mollie. And also Jojo T. Gibs is really funny,
Speaker 2: she's great, but she thinks like a girl, like you know,
Speaker 2: like you when something is like a little bit off
Speaker 2: with her friend, or like the way that she views
Speaker 2: texting and the way that she approaches things like it
Speaker 2: all felt very like authentic and you know, relatable, and
Speaker 2: like even the fact that, just like the touches of
Speaker 2: like she makes sure to share her location with somebody
Speaker 2: when she's going into a situation that feels unsafe and
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, I liked her character when the like
Speaker 2: internal logic that she has and she's funny and she's cool,
Speaker 2: but it's like there's nothing else really there for her.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like this movie would have been more
Speaker 2: interesting to me as like a two hander where Molly
Speaker 2: and Noah are like characters of equal importance as opposed
Speaker 2: to Mollie is Noah's friend, which is how this movie
Speaker 2: you know rolls out for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't think it would have been that
Speaker 3: big of an adjustment, like writing wise or structurally or
Speaker 3: anything like that.
Speaker 2: So and I think it just like from a writing
Speaker 2: perspective too, like Mollie is unbelievably loyal to Noah, like
Speaker 2: which is great friend love that. Yeah, but I would
Speaker 2: have liked to know a little bit more about their friendship.
Speaker 2: We don't really learn very much about it a bit,
Speaker 2: Like I think the most we get is her telling
Speaker 2: Steve they used.
Speaker 3: To work together. Yeah, okay, like you know.
Speaker 2: You work with a lot of people, like and there,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I feel like there is something
Speaker 2: a little bit missing for me there where I know
Speaker 2: in horror, very often you don't get a ton of
Speaker 2: information about characters. That's fine as long as it's equally distributed, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: But like it would have made more sense to me
Speaker 2: if Molly was like, Noah, you know, got me through
Speaker 2: this really difficult period in my life, or like something
Speaker 2: to really explain why she will go balls to the
Speaker 2: wall for this character that I feel like gets away
Speaker 2: from the best friend trope a little bit because not
Speaker 2: that like Noah, you know that your friend should not actively,
Speaker 2: of course, try to rescue you if you've been kidnapped
Speaker 2: by a cannibal. But but I do feel like I
Speaker 2: would have liked to understand their connection a little more,
Speaker 2: And I feel like it would have made the movie stronger.
Speaker 3: Right, especially because we open on a conversation with them,
Speaker 3: you know where Noah is getting advice from Mollie. We
Speaker 3: close on a beat of them like embracing saying I
Speaker 3: love you, I love you more, and it's like, well,
Speaker 3: then contextualize that a bit more please.
Speaker 2: And I feel the same way with Penny and Noah,
Speaker 2: where again you get like the suggestion of a like
Speaker 2: cool character dynamic between the two of them. I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, in a lesser movie, you'd have victims sort
Speaker 2: of turn against each other or whatever it is, right,
Speaker 2: but they are very much on each other's side. But again,
Speaker 2: you're like there's an opportunity for them to get to
Speaker 2: know each other, and like they kind of don't. It's
Speaker 2: these like little jokes instead, and we don't learn very
Speaker 2: much about Penny, And again, I think it makes the
Speaker 2: movie stronger if we know more about her, like you know,
Speaker 2: and finding something she and Noah have in common, like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just the relationships between women in
Speaker 2: general in this movie. I feel like, you know, there's
Speaker 2: interesting stuff there, but it kind of like there just
Speaker 2: wasn't enough for there to be a really impactful relationship
Speaker 2: between women. Molly and Noah are great, but it's just
Speaker 2: for me. It was like, what have you guys done? Together,
Speaker 2: Like okay, like what is the friendship?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: More for sure. Yeah, I want to talk about Anne
Speaker 3: her Wow, good arrested development reference.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, let's talk about and Charlotte Lebon.
Speaker 3: Yes, so you know, you can read her character as
Speaker 3: someone who did what she had to do in order
Speaker 3: to survive. It seems like she seduced Steve into sparing
Speaker 3: her and that was her method of escape from almost
Speaker 3: certain death. So I chose to read her character and
Speaker 3: her behavior as commentary on people who are like the
Speaker 3: victims or recipients or survivors of some form of oppression,
Speaker 3: and then rather than siding with other oppressed people like
Speaker 3: you think they would, because you think they'd have empathy
Speaker 3: because they experienced the same oppression themselves, but instead they
Speaker 3: align themselves with the oppressor and become complicit in, if
Speaker 3: not active, participants, in the oppression of others, which is
Speaker 3: something I think about a lot. I am conly thinking
Speaker 3: about this. It happens a lot in society. Ever heard
Speaker 3: of it? And I find it to be such a
Speaker 3: troubling yet fascinating phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like all the fucking time, Like
Speaker 2: how many this is unfortunate? But yeah, Like, I feel
Speaker 2: like a lot of people have the experience of, especially
Speaker 2: people of marginalized genders, of like my first boss who's
Speaker 2: not a man, and then they are also upholding the
Speaker 2: same shit, and you're like, well, what the fuck the point? Right,
Speaker 2: what is the point?
Speaker 3: You know, it's the trad wife phenomenon. It's like when
Speaker 3: black people become cops. You know, there's like a bunch
Speaker 3: of different exams, and.
Speaker 2: There's all of these societal reasons, Like you're saying, like,
Speaker 2: there's societal reasons as to why this happens, but it is.
Speaker 2: It's like sad. It's sad to see in characters like Anne,
Speaker 2: and I appreciated that. I thought that, Yeah, that was
Speaker 2: like one of the more effective things in the movie.
Speaker 2: I guess I am fine with the way that that
Speaker 2: character went. But the thing I liked the most is
Speaker 2: that I feel like the movie it does not have
Speaker 2: a ton of empathy for Anne, but I think it
Speaker 2: had a little bit in a way that I think
Speaker 2: was interesting. Where Noah, it seems like, is being presented
Speaker 2: with the beginnings of the same kind of dynamic, right,
Speaker 2: where like Noah, in order to escape the immediate circumstances
Speaker 2: is having to play meat ball with this guy, right,
Speaker 2: like he's thank you, thank you, no, but like she
Speaker 2: she is sort of having to play ball with him
Speaker 2: in order to liberate herself, and she is different. She
Speaker 2: liberates the other women who are trapped there. But I
Speaker 2: did think it was interesting that it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is almost certainly what happened with Anne, but she
Speaker 2: did not liberate the other people. And you know I
Speaker 2: would hazard I guess out of fear and like out
Speaker 2: of selfishness and fear, right, which is why a lot
Speaker 2: of people of marginalized genders uphold the patriarchy because it's
Speaker 2: personally advantageous and because they're afraid of not aligning. And
Speaker 2: you see it everywhere. You see it in fucking politics
Speaker 2: all the fucking time. Yes, we could keep going, right.
Speaker 3: I think it has a lot to do with power
Speaker 3: dynamics as well, where people will choose the side of
Speaker 3: the oppressor because the oppressor has more power and they
Speaker 3: think that if they align with the oppressor, they will
Speaker 3: inherit some of that power. And that is true, and
Speaker 3: that does happen sometimes, but it doesn't mean that they
Speaker 3: will be immune to oppression and marginalization because cause this
Speaker 3: oppression is very large scale in it's systemic, and it
Speaker 3: needs to be fought against, which is what Noah does,
Speaker 3: rather than what Anne does, which is like, you know,
Speaker 3: uphold it after she escapes quote unquote from the oppression.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought that was really effective. Yeah. And then
Speaker 2: I mean we are quite literally bashed over the head
Speaker 2: with that message as well when Molly kills Anne, and
Speaker 2: I think she says like, bitches like you are.
Speaker 3: The problem, Like, yeah, I came to you for help.
Speaker 2: I almost like again, I feel like I'm coming dead
Speaker 2: too hard to that. I almost like didn't need that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, no, we get I got it, Like
Speaker 2: I got it. Yes, and is a part of the problem.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's a horror movie. It can't be.
Speaker 1: It's weird.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, but yeah, I thought that that was pretty effective.
Speaker 2: I did have just like a story logic question where
Speaker 2: so like they have two kids and Sebastian stans just
Speaker 2: bonking women over the head and meanwhile, my sons are asleep,
Speaker 2: My two gorgeous sons are like upstairs.
Speaker 3: And his murder cannibal house is so far away, like
Speaker 3: how does he have the time to drive the air
Speaker 3: and back to his other house where his family lives.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you know. I yeah, cheating men, you
Speaker 2: know men, men with the secret life. They make it work,
Speaker 2: they make it work. Yeah, yeah, there are our strongest soldiers.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought the an stuff was effective, and I feel
Speaker 2: like that character's like presence was pretty well balanced. What
Speaker 2: I was interested in? What did you think of like
Speaker 2: when she saw I don't know, I guess okay, I
Speaker 2: do have questions about her ending right, because for a second,
Speaker 2: I was like, are we supposed to believe that this
Speaker 2: is like Anne's idea. No, it's Steve's idea, which makes
Speaker 2: more sense. Great, but you know, she sees his body
Speaker 2: and I feel like you sort of get a sense
Speaker 2: of like a little bit of relief from her. She's like,
Speaker 2: all right, put it on ice. We're going to sell
Speaker 2: his meat. Yes, like is the suggestion there, But then
Speaker 2: she like pretends to be grateful for Noah but then
Speaker 2: tries to kill her. I guess I was just like
Speaker 2: a little bit coulde. I guess that's just the power
Speaker 2: dynamic right where she's like, now I'm going to have.
Speaker 3: The meat business business.
Speaker 2: Like I guess I was a little confused about what
Speaker 2: her end game was because theoretically, like she is now
Speaker 2: liberated too, Yes, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that she's just like so deep in the.
Speaker 2: Meat, so deep in the meat. Of course, it's like
Speaker 2: she I don't know, I guess I don't know how
Speaker 2: that would play out for her in the courts.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm like, and you really want to keep
Speaker 2: running this business? Like it seems like it's kind of
Speaker 2: on thin nice as it is. Yeah, In any case,
Speaker 2: I just wanted to mention that because I wasn't totally
Speaker 2: because the movie does just end very quickly for me,
Speaker 2: where I would have been interested in maybe one more
Speaker 2: beat with Anne to understand where she's coming from a
Speaker 2: little better. Like obviously her character is indefensible, but like
Speaker 2: in order to just like explore the idea that we
Speaker 2: were just talking about a little more and siding with
Speaker 2: the oppressor and what leads to there, I feel like
Speaker 2: it maybe would have benefited from a little more investigation
Speaker 2: of that, especially because like Noah and Anne, it seems
Speaker 2: like we're treated pretty similarly towards the beginning by Steve,
Speaker 2: and I almost feel like, well, then don't you want
Speaker 2: to see those characters like interact a little bit. I
Speaker 2: don't know, I think it could have been interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what about Anne made her gravitate toward being
Speaker 3: complicit and being part of the problem exactly, Like what
Speaker 3: were her circumstances that led her to that versus like
Speaker 3: how did she differ from Noah?
Speaker 2: Right? I mean, because she is obviously she is a villain,
Speaker 2: but she is a more complicated villain than Steve. And
Speaker 2: I feel like it would have been interesting and just
Speaker 2: again like another chance to like have more character moments
Speaker 2: between the women in this movie that just kind of
Speaker 2: like doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also worth noting that Anne is a character with
Speaker 3: a prosthetic limb, which is not the case for the
Speaker 3: actor Charlotte Lebon, so it's another example of an able
Speaker 3: bodied actor playing a disabled character. I want to also
Speaker 3: briefly touch on the man who is with Anne at
Speaker 3: the end, who she tells like put his body on ice.
Speaker 3: This is someone who we've seen briefly before. Seems to
Speaker 3: be like an assistant who like helps deliver the packaged meat.
Speaker 3: He appears to be like a First Nation's indigenous person,
Speaker 3: but we don't know anything about this person. He has,
Speaker 3: Like I think no dialogue. We don't know why he
Speaker 3: would be working for this white couple doing their evil bidding.
Speaker 3: He clearly knows what they're doing. He's standing right there
Speaker 3: when like the dead body of Steve is there, like
Speaker 3: he's packaging the you know, he's he knows what the
Speaker 3: operation is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's just like why this care? Like this is
Speaker 3: not the inclusion or representation we need of indigenous characters.
Speaker 3: Why was this choice made?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a character that could be so easily removed again, Yeah,
Speaker 2: just another like it just feels a little bit like
Speaker 2: what are we trying to do here?
Speaker 3: Right, Because like a lot of casting in contemporary movies
Speaker 3: within the past few years, it is more inclusive, but
Speaker 3: a lot of these movies are still made by white people,
Speaker 3: and they're just like, oh, I have to fill a quota, right,
Speaker 3: you know, I want to be inclusive in my casting,
Speaker 3: But they're not giving a lot of thought about like
Speaker 3: who is in what role, who is occupying what he
Speaker 3: has the narrative power like yeah, and what implications a
Speaker 3: certain person and cast in a certain role has and
Speaker 3: whether that tracks logically at all. So that felt to
Speaker 3: me like an example of like, oh, let's see an
Speaker 3: indigenous person on screen.
Speaker 2: But in a role that could be taken out of
Speaker 2: the movie without any issue. Like, yeah, I agree with
Speaker 2: you there, And yeah, it's frustrating because I don't know
Speaker 2: who casts this movie. It is a fairly diverse cast,
Speaker 2: but it cuts along very, very trophy lines. And this
Speaker 2: movie came out two years ago, Like there's really no
Speaker 2: reason for that to have happened, and it ultimately kind
Speaker 2: of undercuts what this movie is trying to do by like,
Speaker 2: you know, subverting the gaze of a cannibal movie, which
Speaker 2: is a cool idea and like it works for me
Speaker 2: for the most part, but it's like that level of
Speaker 2: care again, it's just kind of I mean, like a
Speaker 2: white feminis the thing to do is for one message
Speaker 2: to come through really clearly. But the you know, intersectional
Speaker 2: thinking I don't think was there at least in the casting.
Speaker 2: I mean, and yeah, in the casting, it definitely wasn't
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, should we talk about Steve.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Steve.
Speaker 2: I have to say I thought the like rom com
Speaker 2: portion of this movie was very effective for me in
Speaker 2: terms of just like, I mean, rom COM's the wrong
Speaker 2: thing to call it, but just I think my favorite
Speaker 2: parts of the movie The Cannibal stuff great, sure, and
Speaker 2: I like it, but there was this like weird satisfaction
Speaker 2: of watching someone who is smart blow past all of
Speaker 2: these red flags. It just made me feel better about myself.
Speaker 2: You know, were so many times. You know, it's like,
Speaker 2: if you end up in a bad situation, you end
Speaker 2: up in a bad relationship, you're made out to be
Speaker 2: like God, I'm I mean and she says that to herself,
Speaker 2: like I'm so stupid, Like how could I have let
Speaker 2: this happen? And I feel like the movie does do
Speaker 2: a really good job of illustrating the fact. I mean
Speaker 2: sometimes it's just Penny saying that through the wall, but
Speaker 2: like that, no, like there was not some crucial thing
Speaker 2: that you did wrong that means that you're now getting cannibaled.
Speaker 2: But I thought that the writing with like the subtle
Speaker 2: red flags, that whole section, that whole beginning section, really
Speaker 2: worked for.
Speaker 3: Me, especially because the red flags are subtle enough that
Speaker 3: even if you are smart and intuitive and perceptive, you
Speaker 3: might not recognize them, especially because in just like the
Speaker 3: landscape of modern dating and so many men and I'm
Speaker 3: now speaking from personal experience here, but like cis men
Speaker 3: tend to not consider the fact that people of marginalized
Speaker 3: genders move through the world very differently, and that there's
Speaker 3: a level of like caution and self preservation that we
Speaker 3: have to be far more concerned about than sis men.
Speaker 3: And I try to communicate that a lot with like
Speaker 3: people I've matched with on a dating app and we're
Speaker 3: scheduling a first date, and I am and not that
Speaker 3: I've always done this, but boy have I learned my lessons.
Speaker 3: But like, generally speaking, I will insist that we meet
Speaker 3: in a public space and in a neighborhood that is
Speaker 3: familiar to me, because I need an exit strategy if
Speaker 3: I need to get away, I want to be able
Speaker 3: to do it safely, and I want to like have
Speaker 3: it be in a place where I can navigate easily.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people who I'm like organizing a
Speaker 3: date with, and unfortunately I'm tragically heterosexual, so it's men
Speaker 3: who I'm dating, They'll be like, oh, well, just come over,
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm like, no, I haven't met you.
Speaker 3: I don't know you. I don't know if I can
Speaker 3: trust you, and they're like, oh, of course you can,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and I'm like, do you not understand
Speaker 3: that trust is something that people earn. You can't just
Speaker 3: declare that you're trustworthy and have me automatically trust you.
Speaker 3: But so many CIS men don't seem to understand that.
Speaker 3: And again I'll tell them, we have to meet in public.
Speaker 3: I want to hang out in public for a long
Speaker 3: time before I would ever consider like going to your
Speaker 3: place or bringing you back to my place, like, I
Speaker 3: have to know that I can feel safe, and like
Speaker 3: the number of men who just like do not even
Speaker 3: consider that or care about that is astonishing.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I know that you and I approach
Speaker 2: like I think you approach dating much smarter than I
Speaker 2: have historically. But I mean, even who knows I really,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, check the logs. But I do
Speaker 2: like I agree with you, and especially any time I
Speaker 2: feel like when I've done that dating, I've never even
Speaker 2: really said that that's what I'm doing because I am
Speaker 2: afraid it will be interpreted as you know, I'm afraid
Speaker 2: of the dynamic that introduces, even though it's like, of course,
Speaker 2: of course you're thinking that. And I feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of men cannot handle the idea that they are
Speaker 2: not inherently trusted and that like the world doesn't fucking
Speaker 2: revolve around them for sure. And I mean, I think
Speaker 2: that what you're doing makes so much sense because it's
Speaker 2: like you're just normalizing, Like there's no reason for me
Speaker 2: to trust you. You are a stranger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I.
Speaker 2: Have to move through the world differently, and I wish
Speaker 2: that there was a more like a clearer understanding to that.
Speaker 2: But I've definitely been I won't even say guilty of,
Speaker 2: but my instinct in the past has been too planned
Speaker 2: for that. But never say that that's what I'm doing,
Speaker 2: because I'm afraid of how men react when their pride
Speaker 2: is injured, which should be scary yet and my experience
Speaker 2: is often violent, Yeah, yeah, or cruel or whatever. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think you get that quick with the guy from
Speaker 2: Jane the Virgin at.
Speaker 3: The beginning of the movie, Oh is that who that is? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I didn't watch much of that show.
Speaker 2: I've for some reason was so into it then, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that like he is the sort of you know, archetypical
Speaker 2: bad date and that this is like what Noah is
Speaker 2: used to. And I think that that ends up being
Speaker 2: very effective because as I was like watching the movie,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I would have fallen for this, I would have.
Speaker 2: And I think that it's very like you're saying that
Speaker 2: the red flags are very present and noted by her friend,
Speaker 2: but is subtle enough that she's like, it's probably not
Speaker 2: a big deal. Let's see what happened, right, and like
Speaker 2: that sort of looped thinking of like, well, if I
Speaker 2: am worried about this, then how am I ever going
Speaker 2: to have a relationship blah blah blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and like feeling that sort of loop. I don't know.
Speaker 2: And then when she gets to the house, I've just
Speaker 2: like soft triggered by yeah, just going into someone's house
Speaker 2: and realizing you're like, oh, I don't know where I am,
Speaker 2: or like if I do know where I am, I'm
Speaker 2: not able to communicate easily enough. And now the power
Speaker 2: dynamic is such that I have to basically admit I
Speaker 2: don't feel totally safe right now. Could you give me
Speaker 2: the tools to feel safer and sort of being at
Speaker 2: someone else's mercy but having to maintain a like sexy
Speaker 2: like vibe while being like okay, like it's Jay.
Speaker 3: What's your Wi Fi best word? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, but like I went on a weekend trip
Speaker 2: with someone who I had just recently started dating, you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, and there is like that
Speaker 2: moment where you're like, well, we don't know each other
Speaker 2: that well, and you know, and then the more time
Speaker 2: we're spending together, I'm like, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: I like you very much, and You're like, well, how
Speaker 2: the fuck would I get out of here? I mean,
Speaker 2: it is just, yeah, I don't know dating men. It
Speaker 2: is just like means that you frequently find yourself in
Speaker 2: what feels like hostage situation, and that is a lot
Speaker 2: of why this movie works works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh okay, wait, I have so many thoughts. One
Speaker 3: is that I think the fact that they meet under
Speaker 3: the circumstances of meeting in real life quote unquote versus
Speaker 3: meeting over a dating app might inform some of her
Speaker 3: feeling more at ease, even though they are perfect strangers
Speaker 3: and they don't know each other. But because I mean
Speaker 3: to bring them back to our personal lives, you and
Speaker 3: I approach dating differently in the sense that I feel
Speaker 3: like you tend to date people who you have met
Speaker 3: in real life, either you know, in some kind of
Speaker 3: comedy circumstances or you know, different settings where I've never
Speaker 3: done apps yet, and I've pretty much only done dating
Speaker 3: apps and that's how I've met like ninety five percent
Speaker 3: of the people I've like briefly dated. So there is
Speaker 3: this level of like, oh my god, I'm meeting up
Speaker 3: with a stranger who I've only corresponded with over text
Speaker 3: or maybe FaceTime, but like they're so straight. So that
Speaker 3: does mean that I feel like I have to be
Speaker 3: extra cautious and extra clear about my intentions because I
Speaker 3: totally get like being wary of setting boundaries because of
Speaker 3: how so many men respond to setting boundaries and feeling
Speaker 3: like their ego is bruised because they're not automatically trustworthy.
Speaker 3: But like you said, I am trying to like normalize
Speaker 3: the idea of like men understanding that they are just
Speaker 3: inherently safer moving through the world than people of marginalized genders.
Speaker 2: Which is like it feels so weird at this late
Speaker 2: stage that like you have to be like, have you
Speaker 2: ever thought about this?
Speaker 3: You're like, and so okay, there's a spectrum of what
Speaker 3: will happen if, first of all, a man just like
Speaker 3: ass this man saying come over. We've never met in
Speaker 3: real life before, but let's have our first date on
Speaker 3: my couch. That is a red flag just in and
Speaker 3: of itself, and I usually will just not talk to
Speaker 3: the people after that. But if we've already had some
Speaker 3: kind of like rapport that feels fun and we were
Speaker 3: flirting and we like it seemed like a good conversation
Speaker 3: stuff like that, I will be like, no, actually, I
Speaker 3: need to meet you in public, and then I'll explain why.
Speaker 3: I'll be like, I need to make sure we vibe
Speaker 3: number one, because like, if we're just sitting on your
Speaker 3: couch and I don't feel any romantic feelings.
Speaker 2: At best, that's awkward.
Speaker 3: And it's like, don't you want to know if you
Speaker 3: vibe with me? Like what if you're not into me?
Speaker 3: Like this is a two way street first of all.
Speaker 3: And I was like, and that's just not safe for me,
Speaker 3: Like I don't feel safe or comfortable doing that. We
Speaker 3: have to meet in a neutral public place that is
Speaker 3: familiar to me. If they say, Okay, totally get it,
Speaker 3: no worries, We'll go out for a drink or whatever,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, fine, I'll proceed. Anyone who pushes back,
Speaker 3: and I have had men push back on that to
Speaker 3: be like, oh, then they act like I'm being difficult, like.
Speaker 2: You've saved yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like you know everything need to know, which
Speaker 3: is that that person is scary and doesn't understand boundaries
Speaker 3: and just like doesn't care about people being concerned for
Speaker 3: their own safety and all those things. So right, there's that,
Speaker 3: But I'm wondering, like back to her meeting him in
Speaker 3: this public place and she's.
Speaker 2: Done quote unquote everything right, and I feel like this
Speaker 2: movie makes it clear that even if you do everything right,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you're safe, which is a skin which
Speaker 2: is a very you know, negative message it is, but
Speaker 2: it's true. I mean, I guess, like coming from the
Speaker 2: opposite place, and I mean I'm just like absolutely petrified
Speaker 2: of apps and and just strangers in general. I think
Speaker 2: that's just like, hmm, my social anxiety is such that
Speaker 2: it's always been a non starter for me as I've
Speaker 2: dated people that I met meet in person, and you know,
Speaker 2: as this movie demonstrates, not better, not better, true different
Speaker 2: kind of bad. But I I'm glad that there is
Speaker 2: And I guess I wonder because I haven't really experienced it,
Speaker 2: but that like when it's someone you haven't met in
Speaker 2: person before, it almost feels like maybe a little bit
Speaker 2: easier to set that boundary because you're like it just
Speaker 2: makes sense, whereas like if it's someone i've met before again,
Speaker 2: I mean it's like I have a secret plan where
Speaker 2: it's like my my boyfriend right now, who you know,
Speaker 2: so far, so good. I don't think he's gonna steal
Speaker 2: my ass. No, I love the guy. Uh, but but
Speaker 2: like for our first date, I was like, let's go
Speaker 2: on a walk while it's light out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even though I knew that we got along and
Speaker 3: that we vibed, and because you already knew him a
Speaker 3: little bit too, right, right, I.
Speaker 2: Mean that's I think that that's like my level of
Speaker 2: paranoia with men that I was like, I will only
Speaker 2: really hang out with men that I am already pretty
Speaker 2: sure I'm not actively afraid of. Yeah, Like I just
Speaker 2: don't trust other people's vouching. I just like I just
Speaker 2: can't do it. And and that's probably just like PTSD
Speaker 2: stuff from the past, but like, but yeah, so I
Speaker 2: just was like, even with a man that I have
Speaker 2: known in passing for like a year, still, it's like
Speaker 2: we have to meet up when it's light I need
Speaker 2: to like understand what your general vibe is right so
Speaker 2: that I can get out yeah, because it's like, but
Speaker 2: like even then, you're it's just so fucked up. I
Speaker 2: don't know. That's why I and I like that there's
Speaker 2: like almost this expanded metaphor of of course he's done
Speaker 2: this before. Of course I'm not special, and that I
Speaker 2: feel like was very resonant for me too. Is like
Speaker 2: it is very tempting to be like, there's something different
Speaker 2: about me, and it's like you know, occasionally, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, because the way a lot of CIS men
Speaker 2: will treat you is the exact same way they've loved,
Speaker 2: bombed and taken in a lot of other people who
Speaker 2: sometimes look strikingly similar to you. It's very spooky, it's scary.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this experience I had that you
Speaker 2: know about, but like I knew the guy who was
Speaker 2: dating had dated another woman who I had met before,
Speaker 2: and we look not dissimilar, and when things ended in
Speaker 2: this very like horrible way, I reached out to her
Speaker 2: and we had a sort of like moment of like
Speaker 2: the play by play was exactly the fucking same. But
Speaker 2: it's just it is so many like little echoes of
Speaker 2: this movie just felt so familiar, and I like that,
Speaker 2: even though intersectionally I don't think this movie does well
Speaker 2: at all, there is this like understood solidarity between most women,
Speaker 2: and I think that's also authentic too, as like there
Speaker 2: are ants in the world who are treated just as
Speaker 2: horribly as you are, but do not have solidarity with
Speaker 2: you at all for sure, And I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: see that gradient, even though I would have liked more
Speaker 2: depth than the characters, like, I appreciate that well.
Speaker 3: Going back to the like blame and shame component of
Speaker 3: the movie that Noah feels like we said, the red
Speaker 3: flags are so subtle that they are missible at least
Speaker 3: until she gets to his house. He won't give her
Speaker 3: the Wi Fi password and then she's drugged. Obviously from
Speaker 3: that point on, like the red flags are glaring, but
Speaker 3: prior to that, they are arguably not even red flags.
Speaker 3: Like a lot of what he does wouldn't ping for
Speaker 3: someone as being like, you know, him not being on
Speaker 3: social media. That's something that some people just choose not
Speaker 3: to do, and it's not necessarily a red flag.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: There's different things that yeah, maybe could be interpreted as
Speaker 3: a red flag, but like they're not.
Speaker 2: I'm like unless you're old, you should at least have Controversially,
Speaker 2: you should have an Instagram account. If you don't, I
Speaker 2: think you're kind of fucking scary.
Speaker 3: I mean, even if you don't post it.
Speaker 2: But again, just have it. Have like have. I do
Speaker 2: feel like there is a necessity to have someone be
Speaker 2: able to vouch for your existence. Otherwise you're like, what
Speaker 2: do you have to hide? And the answer is often.
Speaker 3: Something something right. But there are things that could be
Speaker 3: not even interpreted as a red flag. But she still
Speaker 3: blames herself and she thinks, you know, she says like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm the only one who's slept with him. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: And she's disgusted with herself and humiliated. And Penny, although
Speaker 3: she does sort of like pass judgment to be like, wait,
Speaker 3: you slept with him. I don't think anyone others of
Speaker 3: us did. But I'm not slept shaming you, you know,
Speaker 3: so there's something to that. But she then follows up
Speaker 3: Penny does by saying like, it's not our fault, it's
Speaker 3: always their fault. And the idea of like you said,
Speaker 3: you can do everything right, or you can proceed with caution,
Speaker 3: and you can just go about dating the way modern
Speaker 3: dating generally goes and it can still end horribly and
Speaker 3: it's because it's the fault of the perpetrators.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like again it's like it's all a little
Speaker 2: bit undercooked, but the core message of it and the
Speaker 2: fact that the empathy of the movie is clearly with
Speaker 2: Noah and that it's done I think just in a
Speaker 2: way we don't see in horror very often, where it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't think a cis man could have written this movie,
Speaker 2: because you do have to have sort of the lived
Speaker 2: experience of I have to protect myself and thinking on
Speaker 2: the other end of that, how would I think if
Speaker 2: my friend told me this about this guy? Like, I
Speaker 2: feel like that was all very like well thought out
Speaker 2: and considered and didn't feel like ten y. I feel
Speaker 2: like sometimes especially with it's like talking about like modern dating,
Speaker 2: the technology's weirdly outdated, which wasn't true here either, which
Speaker 2: I feel like is kind of hard to do. So
Speaker 2: kudos kudos too, Yes, Because this movie is written and
Speaker 2: directed by women, white women, Mimi Cave and Lauren Con
Speaker 2: and it's also produced by Adam McKay, which I love
Speaker 2: to hear it. I guess Lauren Conn began as Adam
Speaker 2: McKay's assistant.
Speaker 3: Oh, not kidding.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like we are saying more
Speaker 2: horror movies from a more diverse array of directors and
Speaker 2: genre movies in general. But like, you know, keep it coming,
Speaker 2: keep it coming common And.
Speaker 3: That was my point. You reminded me of what my
Speaker 3: point was, which is that so many horror movies from
Speaker 3: years past did so much to blame the women for
Speaker 3: getting killed. You know, the whole trope of like, if
Speaker 3: you're a woman and you have sex with someone, then
Speaker 3: you got it right. There's that, you know, there's the
Speaker 3: final girl trope, which this movie avoids because there are
Speaker 3: three final girls.
Speaker 2: And I think this movie is again trying to avoid
Speaker 2: racialized tropes in horror, but I would say it is
Speaker 2: less successful at doing that.
Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, Paul, just real quickly. Yes, On one hand,
Speaker 3: you have him recognized of the danger he's potentially in.
Speaker 3: He hears gunshots, he's in the middle of the woods,
Speaker 3: and he acknowledges like, I've seen this horror movie and
Speaker 3: I know that I don't make it out alive, so
Speaker 3: I'm going to bounce. But also, is that kind of
Speaker 3: commentary on how like men tend not to be helpful
Speaker 3: in these situations when it comes to like women's liberation.
Speaker 2: It felt unclear to me, Like, yeah, I thought the
Speaker 2: idea of it was interesting, but it kind of just
Speaker 2: felt like a weird joke.
Speaker 3: Well, why make him even drive the whole way up
Speaker 3: there if narratively he's not going to do anything, He's
Speaker 3: just gonna turn right back around.
Speaker 2: That was the thing I was curious about to Yeah,
Speaker 2: especially because like I would be curious what got cut
Speaker 2: from this movie, because it did feel like there are
Speaker 2: certain little plot holes that probably could have been fixed
Speaker 2: by another scene that might have existed at some point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because Paul like has not that he's like a prominent character,
Speaker 2: but he does have more screen time than a character
Speaker 2: who randomly bails right would have. Like you're just like, well,
Speaker 2: then what was the point? I mean, I guess you know.
Speaker 2: His function is to connect Molly back to Noah again,
Speaker 2: a black character servicing ultimately servicing the white characters. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but then at the end, it's sort of like his
Speaker 2: whole character ends in this kind of confusing joke.
Speaker 3: It's also implied that he's only helping Molly because he
Speaker 3: thinks he has an opportunity to have sex with her
Speaker 3: again or to like reignite there.
Speaker 2: Which is like a man to do. And I appreciated that,
Speaker 2: like Noah and Molly different points use their whiles to
Speaker 2: get what they need from who they need it from where.
Speaker 2: It's like pretty clear from just how Noah and Molly
Speaker 2: talk about Paul that Mollie's like not interested and I
Speaker 2: think kind of ghosted him when they dated.
Speaker 3: It seems like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like she's all of a sudden
Speaker 2: interested in him again. I think she possibly knows that
Speaker 2: this is his personality and wants to, you know, keep
Speaker 2: him involved and entice. But again, you would think with
Speaker 2: Mollie and with all of these characters, does Mollie not
Speaker 2: have a second friend to tell Hey, I'm like someone
Speaker 2: that you would trust more than someone you ghosted last year?
Speaker 2: Like it just I get it. It's like a small
Speaker 2: cast and it's movie logic, but I just felt like
Speaker 2: another it just the smallness of these women's world. It's
Speaker 2: just kind of bizarre.
Speaker 3: That's why I think it would have been interesting if
Speaker 3: like Mollie is dating a woman, right, and she's person
Speaker 3: who helps Molly on this quest and we see what
Speaker 3: that dynamic looks like. Not to say that like women
Speaker 3: dating women is perfect in sunshine and butterflies and amazing
Speaker 3: and like that contrasted with women dating men, but like
Speaker 3: that would have been an interesting dynamic to explore to
Speaker 3: see how those interactions are different, or just just see
Speaker 3: what that looks like and also.
Speaker 2: Feels like, I mean on Noah's part, Like if Noah's
Speaker 2: always hanging out with a couple, that would sort of
Speaker 2: explain why she might be dating more. Yeah, which because
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been the friend of a couple and
Speaker 2: it's like, if the couple is awesome, it's awesome. But
Speaker 2: sometimes some days you're like.
Speaker 3: Wow, I am really the third wheel, ARENENTI.
Speaker 2: No one's kissing me. This stinks.
Speaker 3: And that's why I need to find myself a throuble
Speaker 3: to be exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think that that's all I really have
Speaker 2: for this movie. I think it's good. I like it.
Speaker 2: It passes the Bechdel test for sure.
Speaker 3: It does. Noah and Molly they do talk a lot
Speaker 3: about Steve, and they talk about dating men in general.
Speaker 3: But I think that if you're going to not pass
Speaker 3: the Bechdel test, a great way to do it is
Speaker 3: to comment on how dating men is difficult and awful.
Speaker 2: And that they are protecting each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're talking about protecting each other from men,
Speaker 2: which I feel like spiritually passes or mistrusting men fundamentally.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Right, And then Noah and Penny talk about their situation,
Speaker 3: which is they're only in this situation because of a man.
Speaker 2: But if you know, I mean, I feel comfortable saying
Speaker 2: this movie pretty handily passes technically and on vibes. But
Speaker 2: what about the most important metric of all time? Can
Speaker 2: you tell that I have to pee really bad because
Speaker 2: I started talking so fast? So what do you think
Speaker 2: in regards to the nipples scale?
Speaker 3: Will we rate the nipples zero to five nipples? Examining
Speaker 3: it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'm going to give
Speaker 3: them movie yes, three nipples. Yeah, I mean, you could
Speaker 3: look at this whole movie is like the meat eating
Speaker 3: of women as a kind of allegory or metaphor for
Speaker 3: just like the objectification and exploitation of women's bodies in society,
Speaker 3: And that's an interesting metaphor. And the fact that the
Speaker 3: women triumph at the end and they stand in solidarity
Speaker 3: with each other and do the opposite of what Anne does,
Speaker 3: which you know her thing is she becomes part of
Speaker 3: the problem.
Speaker 2: So and it doesn't save her because it never does.
Speaker 3: Right, and she gets brutally bashed over the head with
Speaker 3: a shovel yike, and so right. So there's these cool
Speaker 3: things happening. The fact that the movie, even though the
Speaker 3: character blames herself, the movie is not blaming her for
Speaker 3: not seeing that she was being seduced by a cannibal
Speaker 3: who was planning to sell her meat. So I think
Speaker 3: there's a lot of cool stuff going on. There are
Speaker 3: some things that I feel like we're mishandled, especially in
Speaker 3: regards to casting choices and the characters who are people
Speaker 3: of color servicing the white characters and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: So three nipples. I will give one to Jojo T. Gibbs,
Speaker 3: who plays Molly, I will give one to Andrea Bang
Speaker 3: who plays Penny. And I'll give my final nipple to
Speaker 3: semiak Bari, who we don't see on screen, but she's
Speaker 3: the character who leaves the note in the magazine.
Speaker 2: Amazing, Yes, I am going to meet you at three.
Speaker 2: I think that this movie has leaves something to be
Speaker 2: desired in terms of intersectionality, I feel like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of surface y stuff where there is a diverse
Speaker 2: cast and there is queer characters, but it still is
Speaker 2: ultimately a white, hetero story, and these are the characters
Speaker 2: that are ultimately being serviced by the plot. However, when
Speaker 2: it comes to contemporary dating commentary, it's awesome and like
Speaker 2: I think it works super well. The performances are really good,
Speaker 2: the writing is really specific and a way that I'm
Speaker 2: not used to seeing in horror because there's not enough
Speaker 2: women that get to take big swings in horror. So
Speaker 2: the highs are high, the lows are frustrating, but I
Speaker 2: am excited to see more, particularly from Mimi Cave. So
Speaker 2: I'll go three nipples. I will give one to Mimi Cave,
Speaker 2: I will give one to Jojo Gibbs, and I will
Speaker 2: give the final one to Oh my goodness who played Penny.
Speaker 2: I shut my tab fuck, oh Andrea bang, Andrea bang,
Speaker 2: and yeah, congratulations to Sebastian Stan for me recognize him now?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, also quick shout out sorry. I
Speaker 3: know he have to pee, but I just want to
Speaker 3: say the moment of foreshadowing when Noah and Steve go
Speaker 3: back to her place for the first time, and she's like, Ooh,
Speaker 3: can I get you anything to drink or eat? And
Speaker 3: he says no, just you because he's gonna eat her.
Speaker 2: Also just a classic cringe man thing to say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I just went you babe.
Speaker 2: I just want you just feel good. I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: you don't anyways, fucking liar. And with that, uh, and
Speaker 2: that's a fresher movie. You can follow us everywhere. You
Speaker 2: can follow us on Instagram at bachdol guys, you can
Speaker 2: follow us on Twitter, backl the cast, and you can
Speaker 2: subscribe to and in fact, you should subscribe to our
Speaker 2: Patreon aka Matreon Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. Five
Speaker 2: dollars a month gets you two bonus episodes every damn month.
Speaker 2: How nice is that?
Speaker 3: That's so nice? You know what else is nice is
Speaker 3: the fact that I'm headlining two shows in Boston on
Speaker 3: November oh gosh is it sixteenth. So if you live
Speaker 3: in Boston and you want to see me do stand up,
Speaker 3: go to my website Kaitlindononte dot com and the links
Speaker 3: will be there for that. I just wanted to plug
Speaker 3: that real quick. Now.
Speaker 2: That's what I call nice. And if you want to
Speaker 2: see me live in person in Los Angeles. I'm workshopping
Speaker 2: my new show at the Lyric and you can check
Speaker 2: it out on November twentieth and December fourth, and the
Speaker 2: other one's sold out sorry, And you can also get
Speaker 2: our merch at teapopulic dot com. Slash The Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: Holidays coming up, babe, could be fun, could be. And
Speaker 2: with that I have to go chop off my own
Speaker 2: ass and eat it for lunch.
Speaker 3: Me too, Okay, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a
Speaker 3: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis,
Speaker 3: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo laboord Our theme
Speaker 3: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresensky.
Speaker 3: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and
Speaker 3: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
Speaker 3: the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdelcast