1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,919
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with

2
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,439
Speaker 1: this woman? Amber Hearn is back and the headlines, this

3
00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: time suggesting that a jurar impersonated someone else, a jurar

4
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:38,280
Speaker 1: that sat on the Depth Herd trial long shot, Yeah, possible.

5
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,840
Speaker 1: Could there be a mistrial? Absolutely? I mean I see Grace.

6
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

7
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,280
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation in series M one eleven. First

8
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC.

9
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: Amber Heard's legal team filing emotion for a mistrial and

10
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: the defamation case between Herd interrrects husband Johnny Depp Herd lawyers,

11
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 1: alleging the juror number fifteen was illegally selected, writing Juror

12
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,039
Speaker 1: Number fifteen was not the individual summon for jury duty

13
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 1: on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, and therefore is not

14
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,720
Speaker 1: part of the jury panel and could not have properly

15
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: served on the jury at this trial. The request for

16
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 1: a new trial is on the basis that Juror fifteen

17
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,680
Speaker 1: is fifty two years old born in nineteen seventy, while

18
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,400
Speaker 1: the person summoned living at the same address with the

19
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 1: same name was born in nineteen forty five and would

20
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 1: have been seventy seven years old at the time of

21
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: the trial. It's a very tough decision for the court

22
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 1: to make on this motion, and it's hard to see

23
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 1: how the fact that someone was fifty two years old

24
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,880
Speaker 1: rather than seventy years old, how that would make a

25
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 1: change or a difference in the ultimate verdict. For its attorneys,

26
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 1: writing in the motion, the fifty two year old sitting

27
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: on the jury for six weeks did not appear in

28
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: the list, adding it is deeply troubling for an individual

29
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: not summon for jury duty, nonetheless to appear for jury

30
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: duty and serve on a jury, especially in a case

31
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 1: which is this because their case is so much more

32
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 1: special than the rest of our cases. Okay, well that's

33
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 1: not going down very well, I mean it. See Grace,

34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,359
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

35
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and series XIM one eleven. What

36
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 1: the hey, you know what, let's do a double take.

37
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,000
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Fox News. Eberhard's

38
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: legal team filing new documents in a Virginia court on Friday,

39
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: arguing that the person known as Jory Number fifteen was

40
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,799
Speaker 1: not the person that was actually called to serve on

41
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,040
Speaker 1: jury duty, heard's lawyer saying that the person could not

42
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 1: have properly served on the jury at this trial, and

43
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 1: their reasoning for those claims is that the jury panel

44
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: list included a seventy seven year old individual with a

45
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 1: birth date in nineteen forty five. However, they say a

46
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: fifty two year old individual who lives at the same

47
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 1: address as the seventy seven year old was the person

48
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,079
Speaker 1: who actually showed up and ultimately served on the jury.

49
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 1: And because of this mistake that they're alleging hert's lawyers

50
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 1: are saying her quote due process was therefore compromise, and

51
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 1: under these circumstances, a mistrial should be declared and a

52
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: new trial order. So bottom line, she's saying that this Jarar,

53
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: this male Jarar, impersonated another person that was rightfully to

54
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,399
Speaker 1: be in the jury pool. They've got an all star

55
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,079
Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now.

56
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 1: But first straight out to Charlie Langston. She's been on

57
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,959
Speaker 1: the case from the very beginning. She is an editor

58
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: with a dailymail dot com of female Femail. Charlie, thank

59
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: you so much for beings. So much is happening even

60
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: after we thought the case was over. What is this.

61
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: I don't know that any of us thought the case

62
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: was over just because they ruled a verdict. You know,

63
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: it was very clear to me from the start that

64
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 1: Amba was never going to take this verdict lying down.

65
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: And this, in my mind, is just the latest in

66
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 1: a increasingly long line of attempts being made by her

67
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: legal team to try and get the verdicts thrown out.

68
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 1: This new kind of you claim being made by her

69
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,760
Speaker 1: attorneys is basically saying that one of the people who

70
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 1: served on the jury, one of the people who sided

71
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,919
Speaker 1: with Johnny Depp, was never meant to be there in

72
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,560
Speaker 1: the first place. But the interesting thing to me is

73
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: that her lawyers have not yet said, or not yet

74
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 1: made clear how on earth they found this information out.

75
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: Now we knew that the jury who served in this trial,

76
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: they were all supposed to be silent, supposed to be

77
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 1: quiet for at least a year after the trial, and

78
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 1: as yet we have no clue exactly how Amberhard's legal

79
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: team stumbled upon this. But the kind of you know

80
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 1: motion that they have filed to have this trial be

81
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 1: ruled a mistrial comes just days after they also said that,

82
00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, some of the evidence that was used in

83
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 1: the trial does not support the verdict. I do think

84
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 1: that you know she has grounds to try an appeal.

85
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 1: I think you know. I'm not a legal expert, but

86
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure that legal experts would agree that if you

87
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,039
Speaker 1: think you have an opportunity to get the verdict thrown

88
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: out or to appeal the verdict, then you should do so.

89
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 1: But it feels slightly to me at the moment like

90
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 1: they're just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping that

91
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: something will stick. Charlie Langston, that was perfectly said. You

92
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: are correct. Everyone that is either convicted or found to

93
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,839
Speaker 1: be libel at a civil trial has a right to appeal.

94
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 1: That's part of our legal process. It's in the Bill

95
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,799
Speaker 1: of Rights where you have a right to a lawyer.

96
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,039
Speaker 1: You have a right to a lawyer. Even if you

97
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: can't pay for a lawyer, the state will appoint one

98
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 1: and pay for one. You have the right to call witnesses.

99
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,720
Speaker 1: You have the right to cross exam or witnesses if

100
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: any brought by the other side. You have a right

101
00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: to an appeal, and if you cannot afford an appeal,

102
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,760
Speaker 1: of the state will also pay for an appeal for you.

103
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Daryl Cohen you know how, just

104
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,839
Speaker 1: like roll that off the tip of my tongue. You

105
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 1: know why, because in court, when you would take a

106
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 1: guilty plea, you had to on the record. Well, you know,

107
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,239
Speaker 1: I practiced the front of Judge Alberson for so long, Daryl.

108
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 1: We had to swear the defendants in that they were

109
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 1: telling the truth, and then on the record, taken down

110
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: by a court reporter. Give them all of their rights,

111
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 1: and the right to an appeal is one of those

112
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 1: constitutional rights. I mean, of course she has the right

113
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: to ask for a mistrial. I'd be just mad if

114
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 1: she didn't. That doesn't mean anything that she's saying makes

115
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 1: any sense. Well, I don't know if it makes sense

116
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: or not, Nancy. If if this fifty two year old

117
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: was there as opposed to a seventy seven year old,

118
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,480
Speaker 1: then I think that the jury is tainted if that's

119
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 1: the case. And I don't know where they came up

120
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: with it, but I'll say this as well, A seventy

121
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 1: seven year old will possibly look at this and hear

122
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 1: this in a different way than a fifty two year old.

123
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 1: Oh okay, sorry, but Daryl Cohen, I feel a moral

124
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: obligation to just stop you right there. Because you have

125
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: struck a lot of juries like I have, like other

126
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 1: people on this panel have, and we all know that

127
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 1: both sides get a big, that thick print out of

128
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: information on the jurars. It clearly has your dB on

129
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: the print out. If they couldn't look at this guy

130
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 1: and figure out there's a twenty five year age difference

131
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 1: that he clearly is not seventy seven years old, that's

132
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 1: on them, Daryl. You can't fail at trial not notice

133
00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 1: that there is a clear error and not object to

134
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,320
Speaker 1: it then bring it up on appeal if you cause

135
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: the error, Darrell, you cannot site it on appeal as

136
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 1: they grounds for a reversal. I agree, Nancy, But did

137
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 1: they know? I wasn't there. I didn't see the jury list.

138
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 1: I didn't see how well vetted they were. You don't

139
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: think they could tell it's a fifty year old man

140
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 1: versus the eighty year old man seventy seven? Please, no,

141
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 1: just answer that one question. I didn't ask you if

142
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: you were there. I ask you if you believe they

143
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,679
Speaker 1: can't tell the difference and a seventy seven year old

144
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: man and a fifty two year old man a twenty

145
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 1: five year age difference, Just as a yes. No, you

146
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 1: don't think they could tell the difference. Yes, they can

147
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 1: tell them. They probably wanted to hear it, because when

148
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,840
Speaker 1: I had those juror questionnaires, I have a right to

149
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 1: explain my answer, and they may. You're not in court.

150
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 1: The constitution doesn't apply to you. Just fy, but my

151
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,679
Speaker 1: constitution does. It's mine. Go ahead, but make it brief

152
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. The truth is they may not have known.

153
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 1: And sometimes things come up. They're so obvious you don't

154
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: see them until suddenly something happens, and until suddenly you

155
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: lose and you're desperately searching for a ground for appeal.

156
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 1: I think it's what you meant to say. How did

157
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,079
Speaker 1: this happen? I believe it's a father son situation because

158
00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 1: the GIRAR that came in at age fifty two, as

159
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,480
Speaker 1: opposed to the GIRR that was summoned age seventy seven,

160
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 1: both live at the same address, they both have the

161
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,959
Speaker 1: same zip code, and they have the same last name,

162
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 1: and they're both men. It sounds like it's a senior

163
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 1: and a junior. Take a listen now to our friends

164
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 1: at Fox News. This is Charles Watson. Now the jurisdiction.

165
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,319
Speaker 1: This motion was filed in Fairfax County, Virginia does have

166
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: some siefeguards and police to avoid something like this from happening.

167
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 1: They require all county residents to log in with the

168
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: seven digit DROR numbers called and birthday. But now there

169
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 1: are questions about whether those safeguards were used or work

170
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: this time around to correctly verify the juror's identity. This

171
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,560
Speaker 1: new filing comes about a week after lawyers were heard

172
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 1: requesting to judge to throw out a more than ten

173
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 1: million dollar verdict awarded to her ex husband, actor Johnny

174
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,839
Speaker 1: Depp in a very public definition trial. A jury found

175
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 1: Heard defamed Depth and forced him to miss out on

176
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,440
Speaker 1: work opportunities, following go Washington Post out ed and which

177
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 1: Heard alleged she was a victim of domestic abuse. Now,

178
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 1: legal experts say this is not a clear cut argument

179
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: for her. She's going to have to prove a couple

180
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 1: of things. Number one, that this wasn't just an honest

181
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,319
Speaker 1: mistake in number two, that this during question was somehow

182
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,840
Speaker 1: unfair to her. Yeah, you have to show actual prejudice

183
00:10:48,960 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 1: or harm before you can get a reversal. Time stories

184
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,839
Speaker 1: with me, Ittsie Grace. I'm curious about what Charley Langston said.

185
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: She is the editor of female at nilmail dot com. Charley,

186
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 1: you've been on the case in the very beginning. You

187
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,679
Speaker 1: said it feels as if she's just throwing things out

188
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,840
Speaker 1: to see what if anything sticks. I mean, that's what

189
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 1: it feels like to me and I you know, I

190
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:30,200
Speaker 1: think it's very interesting the difference in behavior between her

191
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 1: and Johnny Depp. Obviously we've discussed if she has the

192
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,200
Speaker 1: ability to appeal, she absolutely should appeal. But everything that

193
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: has come out regarding Amber since the trial has been

194
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 1: very negative. You know, we saw her do that Today

195
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 1: Show interview where she rehashed all of the allegations that

196
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: she had made that got her in this situation in

197
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 1: the first place. And yet days after she was found

198
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: guilty of defaming Johnny Depp, she's going on national television

199
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 1: and repeating those same defamatory claims against him. Then we've

200
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 1: got all of this information coming out about a potential

201
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 1: legal case that she's involved in in Australia regarding her

202
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 1: smuggling her dogs into the country a few years ago

203
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,560
Speaker 1: and then lying about it. Then we've got claims that

204
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 1: she might be writing a book. Then we've got news

205
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 1: that her insurance company won't help her pay the defamatory

206
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,480
Speaker 1: charges that she has to give Johnny Depp. Meanwhile, Johnny,

207
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 1: who arguably went into this case as something of a villain,

208
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: has come out really with the most phenomenal redemption arc.

209
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 1: He's doing music, he's going on tours of Europe, He's

210
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: donating enormous amounts of money to children's hospitals around the world.

211
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: He's supposedly going to be back on our screens in

212
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: new movies and TV shows. It just to me, really

213
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 1: kind of lays it very bare when you look at

214
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 1: the difference between the two of them, and for me,

215
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 1: it seems very much like Johnny Depp is a man

216
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 1: who wants to put this behind him get on with

217
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,440
Speaker 1: his life. His attorneys have suggested that he won't even

218
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 1: make Amber pay the money that she owes him. He

219
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,960
Speaker 1: just wants to move on. And she very much seems

220
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 1: as though she's a bit of a dog with a

221
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 1: bone who will not let this rat well. If she

222
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 1: keeps making comments about Depth, she'll probably end up getting

223
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,680
Speaker 1: sued again by Depth. Speaking of Amber, Heard's interview with

224
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie, our friend at NBC that Charlie Links had

225
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 1: just referred to take a listen to our cut forty.

226
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 1: This is Amber heard with Savannah Guthrie, our friend that

227
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 1: I worked with a court TV, wonderful person at NBC,

228
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,679
Speaker 1: Take a listen. I never had to instigate it. I

229
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 1: responded to it. When you're living in violence and it

230
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 1: becomes it becomes normal, as I testified to, you have

231
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: to adapt. You say you were responding, but there is evidence.

232
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,679
Speaker 1: There are tapes in which you acknowledge hitting. There are

233
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 1: tapes in which you say I started the fight. I

234
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,800
Speaker 1: know much has been made of these audio tapes. They

235
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: were first leaps online after being edited. What you would

236
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 1: hear in those clips are not evidence of what was happening.

237
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 1: It was evidence of a negotiation of how to talk

238
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 1: about that with your abuser too. John Guard, Chief de

239
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 1: wd Pitt County Sheriff's Office in Greenville, North Carolina, specializing

240
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: in domestic violence cases. John Guard, that doesn't even sound

241
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't but she just said doesn't even make sense because,

242
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 1: as you will know by getting evidence in at trial,

243
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: if there is any suggestion that a tape or a

244
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: video has been tampered with or edited, it is not

245
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: allowed in trial, right, absolutely, and certainly through discovery you

246
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 1: would get the entire entire thing. Not sure how that

247
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: come about, Yeah, exactly that whole thing. Terli linked in

248
00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 1: with us from delmail dot com. Those tapes were particularly

249
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: damning for Amber Heard. And this is what Heard is

250
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: telling Savannah Guthrie, and they're sitting down interview immediately after

251
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 1: the trial. What was that about? Effectively, Savannah Guthrie was

252
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 1: saying to Amber Heard, the jury and everyone in the

253
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 1: courtroom heard these tapes on which you could be heard

254
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 1: making kind of violent suggestions towards Johnny Depp, saying horrible,

255
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 1: awful things to him. And what Amber Heard is saying

256
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 1: is that actually these tapes were hours and hours and

257
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 1: hours long, and that the jury only heard a very

258
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,280
Speaker 1: small select portion of them. So she was suggesting that

259
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: the evidence that was used in the trial was in

260
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 1: some way tampered with, edited whatever you want to say,

261
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 1: in order to make her look worse. Now, again, my

262
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: legal expertise is very much lacking in comparison with other

263
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 1: brilliant people on this phone call. However, even I know

264
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,680
Speaker 1: that tampered evidence cannot be used in a courtroom. Certainly

265
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: not fairly. So if she's able to prove that, and

266
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 1: if that is actually the case, that is yet another

267
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: reason why she would be able to appeal the verdict.

268
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: But once again she's made this claim and we have

269
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: no evidence to back it up. It's the same thing

270
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: with these new claims about the fake juror. You know,

271
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: we've heard that they think this is the case, but

272
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 1: we as yet have no evidence to back it up

273
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 1: or prove it in any way, shape or form. So

274
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,800
Speaker 1: that's why I say it feels like her legal team

275
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 1: is throwing stuff at the wall to see if it

276
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: will stick, because they keep making these very sensational claims

277
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 1: about why the trial needs to be declared a mistrial

278
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 1: and why it needs to be redone, but we don't

279
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 1: yet have any proof to back up any of the

280
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: claims that they're making. Another issue that trial links and

281
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: brought up rightfully claims by Heard regarding the UK trial.

282
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: This almost the same issue is tried in England and

283
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: there was a very different result. Long story short on

284
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 1: that it seems as if Amber Heard is claiming, Wow,

285
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 1: UK got it right, US messed it up. I want

286
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 1: a mistrial. Take a listen to our cut d again

287
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,160
Speaker 1: This is Amber heard speaking to our France Savannah. There

288
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 1: was another trial handled it with the same dealt, with

289
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,880
Speaker 1: the same subsiditive issues, that had even more evidence. In

290
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 1: in fact mine, my evidence was largely kept out, really

291
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 1: important pieces of evidence kept out, done differently, handled differently

292
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: by a judge instead of a jury. Some evidence is

293
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: admissible in a UK court that is not admissible in

294
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: a US court. Do you think that maybe he just

295
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 1: had better lawyers? I will say his lawyers did certainly

296
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 1: a better job of distracting the jury from the real

297
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 1: issues here. And starn't joining me. High profile psychologist joining

298
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 1: us from New York. You can find her Karen start

299
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: dot com as Karen with a C Karen. It seems

300
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: to be a suggestion by her that she wanted a

301
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 1: judge to preside over the trial. It's referred to as

302
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 1: a bitch trial here because the bench is a way

303
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 1: to refer to the judge. She seems to say a

304
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: judge would have been better than a jury. Well, a

305
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: jury is the American way. That's how it works here.

306
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 1: A jury of your peers. Correct. And what she's saying,

307
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 1: what she seems to be saying anyway, is that this

308
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 1: jury would bias towards him, and that if she had

309
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 1: a judge, the judge would be unbiased and would find

310
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: her not guilty. But it all sounds so desperate, Nancy.

311
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 1: She's really she's looking to be vindicated. It's hard to

312
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 1: believe that her legal team would think even that it

313
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: was a good idea for her to go on, Savannah

314
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: Guntry dudtry because she does not come across as somebody

315
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,879
Speaker 1: who seems to be victimized. She changes her stories, she

316
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: comes up with things that can't be validated, and that

317
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: doesn't make her look any more believable that she did

318
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: original in court in my opinion. You know, let's just

319
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: put it to bed. Daryl Cohen, this latest claim that

320
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: somehow she needs a mistrial because seemingly the son showed

321
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: up as opposed to the father. Daryl, can we just

322
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: do a lightning round, Daryl Cohen joining me, high profile

323
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 1: a lawyer out of the Atlanta juristiction, former prosecutor felony crimes, Daryl,

324
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: isn't it true that on appeal you have to show

325
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 1: actual injury, harm or prejudice before you get a mistrial? Absolutely? Okst.

326
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: Isn't it also true that if there is an error

327
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: at trial that you, the lawyer, could have remedied at trial,

328
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,120
Speaker 1: that will not be a ground for reversal. For instance,

329
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: if you fail to lodge an objection to a problem

330
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 1: at trial and then you complain about it for the

331
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: first time on appeal, you're not getting your reversal absolutely correct.

332
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: But that's if you knew or should have known absolutely Also,

333
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,439
Speaker 1: in Virginia, which includes of course Fairfax County, the voter

334
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: registration is what is used as the jury pool. That

335
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: is similar across the country. They use real estate records,

336
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: they use voter registration, they use prior jury lists. So

337
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: would you agree that anything that had happened Daryl Cohen,

338
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: unless there had been tampering by somebody in the courthouse,

339
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: that this was a mistake that the son, the younger juror,

340
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: came with the same last name as the older jurar.

341
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean, unless you want to think the County Clark

342
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: has somehow tampered and thought they'd get a better result

343
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: with a fifty year old versus an eighty year old,

344
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: that's pretty farfetched. It's like the oj conspiracy theory that

345
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: didn't happen. No, Nancy, I agree with you, but the

346
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: age of the juror on the jury sheet that I

347
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: don't know. They always have their dobs, Darryl Cohen, They

348
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: always every jar print out you meant, don't you remember

349
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: there would be the name of the jurr, their dB,

350
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: their address to make sure they still lived in your

351
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 1: jurisdiction Fulton County, because that's what's ricardo a jirr, that

352
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 1: you're impartial and that you live in the jurisdiction where

353
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 1: the incident occurred. That's really all that's required. That's it,

354
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: and then they're the right age. That should be the

355
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: assumption to find her a lot more liabele than Johnny.

356
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: People keep referring to guilty. It's libel, and that is

357
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 1: a possible ability or maybe even a probability. The reality

358
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: is a fifty two year old may not look at

359
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: it the same way as seventy seven year old does,

360
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: and if the person was the wrong perpect could should Well,

361
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: it's a wrong person that I think it's tainted, whether

362
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: it's by design or by accident. So then wouldn't you

363
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: agree that this juror if in that jurisdiction, you can

364
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: only serve on a jury if you've been a convicted

365
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: felon if you have had your voter rights reinstated in

366
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: two years after that, you can then sit on a jury.

367
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: So unless this guy didn't live in the jurisdiction or

368
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: was unfair or partial, that he is an appropriate member

369
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: of the jury pool. Wouldn't you agree with that? Yes,

370
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: if he was the person called, doesn't matter. If he

371
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: was not the person, it's a suitable member for a

372
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: jury pool. Have you This happened to me once I

373
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: had a defense attorney. I can't remember which one it was. Now,

374
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: come in all bluster, full of piss of vinegar, showing

375
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: off in front of the jury and blurts out at

376
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: the beginning vodyar jury selection. I'll just take the first

377
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: twelve right in front of the jury. In other words,

378
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: no jury selection, no vetting, no nothing, Just take the

379
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: first twelve they came in the courtroom. What could I do, Darryl?

380
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: I couldn't say, no way, there could be a nun

381
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: up there. I had to go along with it. I

382
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: actually tried a case with the first twelve jars that

383
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: walked in the room out of eighty jurards. Can you

384
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: believe that that happened? There was a conviction. By the way,

385
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: it worked for me, but it didn't work for him.

386
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you're acting as if this

387
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: is some scientific formula. It's not. You get a hundred

388
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: people in a courtroom and you start asking them questions

389
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: and you ferret them out bam. If they all live

390
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 1: in the jurisdiction, if they don't have a criminal history,

391
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: if they say they can be fair and impartial, they're

392
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: on the jury. If they're the people that are called.

393
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: If it's the wrong person, sorry, I don't believe that's

394
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: part of the case law. I think you're wrong. I

395
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: believe it. We'll just see Darryl Cohen. Of course, that's

396
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: on the first time I said that to Daryl Cohen.

397
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. That's not all that's happening

398
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: right now. Charlie Linkston gave us a little hit about

399
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: more to come. Take a listen to our cut seventy

400
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: nine Our friends A Crime Online reports that Amber Heard

401
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: may be releasing a tell all book have been circling

402
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: for weeks. Radar Online is reporting that Hurt is working

403
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: on a multimillion dollar book deal following her recent legal battles.

404
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: Okay Magazine says the release will be a gut spelling

405
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: revenge memoir. Rader also suggests that the payday is around

406
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars, but could be more if the bidding

407
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: war breaks out. However, confirmation of a book deal has

408
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: not been made. Did I just hear the words, Charlie

409
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: Lankston joining me from dalmail dot com quote gut spilling

410
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: a revenge memoir? Did I hear that? Correctly? Yes you did,

411
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: And honestly, she's going to get suit again. Exactly if

412
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: we thought that the NBC interview was bad, imagine that,

413
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: you know, over five hundred pages. It's going to be

414
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: an absolute disaster. And I, you know, I really do believe. Look,

415
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: I understand that she doesn't want to kind of go

416
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: down without a fight. But you can't have it both ways.

417
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: You can't say that you want to follow strict judicial

418
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: process and that you want everything to be by the

419
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: book and above board, and the jury selection needs to

420
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: have been verified and all of that kind of stuff.

421
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: But then on the other hand, having you know, been

422
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: found guilty of defamation, you can't then go on TV

423
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: and repeat these defamatory allegations. You can't then pen a

424
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: gut spilling revenge memoir once again rehashing all of these

425
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: defamatory allegations. You have to play the game one way

426
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: or another, and at the moment, she's trying to do

427
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: both things, and it is just portraying her in the

428
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: most negative light. And while I understand that the court

429
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: of public opinion is not the one that rules in

430
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, it certainly is going to impact her

431
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: in the future. And no matter what happens with her

432
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: appeal process, with her request for a mistrial, this kind

433
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: of behavior is going to destroy her career. But in

434
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: my opinion, the rest of her life, I do not

435
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: believe that anyone will hire her to be in a

436
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: movie again, to be in a TV show again, Whether

437
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: or not the you know this ends up being ruled

438
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: a mistrial, or whether or not she's granted an appeal,

439
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: her reputation at this point is destroyed to beyond any

440
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: hope of you know, kind of improving it. Ever. Again,

441
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: in my opinion, boy do I disagree there jump in

442
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: more than mom. I completely disagree. The more the more

443
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: grief he gives, the more people want to see her,

444
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: the more she's going to get a film two or

445
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: ten because they want to see this evil Amber Heard.

446
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 1: It's all about the box. Charlie has nothing to do

447
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: with the reality of life. You know, Darryl Cohen, you're

448
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: functioning under the I think it was the Barnum Bailey

449
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: theory of pr I don't care what you say about it,

450
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: and just talk about me. So yeah, I hear that

451
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: school of thought. To John Guard, chief deputy County Sheriff's

452
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: Office in Greenville, North Carolina, You like I have represented

453
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: battered women your whole line, your whole career. You have

454
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: specialized investigating domestic violence cases. I prosecuted almost gosh one

455
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: of the time a man perpetrating on a female in

456
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: domestic abuse or domestic homicide as it is coined, and

457
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: were the hotline the Batter Women Center hotline at night

458
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: for nine years as a volunteer. John Guard, what happened

459
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: to Amber Heard's case? Because typically you don't have pictures

460
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: of bruises, you don't have any kind of corroboration. It's

461
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: her word against his word or maybe a cop that

462
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: shows up on the scene. What went wrong and what

463
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: was seemingly a slam dunk case for Amber Heard? Because buddy,

464
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: it went sideways? Yeah, I'm not sure absolutely some things

465
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, may have fallen through the cracks as you're

466
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: going through. This is why I say, I'm just blessed

467
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: to be in the criminal side of the courts where

468
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: we deal with guilt and innocence versus liable or not liable.

469
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: But you know, having law enforcement involved and being able

470
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: to bring an impartial group of individuals who have actually

471
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: done the investigation certainly would would help. That's why, just

472
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: like you, you know, we always encourage people to reach

473
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: out for help. And one of those reasons is you're

474
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: bringing in impartial people into the cycle, into the loop

475
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: that can you know, grab information that can be potentially

476
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: later used as evidence. But we didn't really have that here.

477
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: I know there was a call We'll hold on. Charlie

478
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: Langston joined me from tellingall dot com. It's I recall

479
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: several cops showed up to Herd and Depth's apartment on

480
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: one of these incidents, and I believe they testified they

481
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: did not see any size of battering on Amber heard.

482
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: That is correct. Multiple people are including these police officers,

483
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: testified to say that they never saw any evidence of

484
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: bruising or anything like that on Amberhood and that all

485
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: of the injuries that she was seeing, you know, displaying

486
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: when she went to the courtroom to get a restraining

487
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: order against him. But that was actually the only instance

488
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: where she was ever seen with any evidence of physical

489
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: violence towards her, and that was tainted. I believe, Karen Stark,

490
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: that was tainted because evidence came in from a producer

491
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: at TMZ that either she or someone in her camp

492
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: had tipped them off to come to the courthouse when

493
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: she was going to get a t ro against Johnny Depp,

494
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: and that she would be standing in the doorway and

495
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: she would turn her face a certain way so they

496
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: could get a picture of the bruise. So bruise or

497
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: no bruise, that tainted the entire episode, Karen, Well, Nancy,

498
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: as you keeps saying the whole thing, it doesn't it

499
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to me that she would even

500
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: want to appeal because she's coming across as somebody who

501
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: is in it. She's not authentic, she's not believable, she's

502
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: not buddy dead people are going to care about. And

503
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: the more that she's doing this, the worst that she's

504
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: looking to the public anyway, to the court of public opinion.

505
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: As we keep talking about. So I don't know the

506
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: legal aspect of whether she can get in at the trial,

507
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: but she's not looking sympathetic. Well, I would expect her

508
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: to appeal because everyone that is either convicted or how

509
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: libel and a civil trial like here, they always appeal.

510
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: That's the first thing they start. And no matter how

511
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: great lawyers may be at trial, when you're sitting behind

512
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: bars or you're looking at a ten million dollar bill

513
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: you gotta pay in civil court, you'll do anything. You'll

514
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: look at drowning rat and of course we'll ultimately turn

515
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: on your lawyers that stood by you in court and

516
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: claim they were ineffective. That always happens. But Karen start

517
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: you said, I don't know why she would do this,

518
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 1: because it's hurting her in the court of public opinion.

519
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good idea of why she's doing it.

520
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eighty one. Our forensic

521
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: Crime Online TMZ reports that Amber Heard's latest battle is

522
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: with her insurance company. The Aquaman actress reportedly wants to

523
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: use a one million dollar liability policy with New York,

524
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: Maine and General insurance company, which converts defamation and other

525
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: forms of wrongdoing, but the insurance company does not want

526
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: to pay. TMZ reports. The insurance company claims that, according

527
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: to California law, they don't have to pay because Hurd

528
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: committed a willful and malicious act of misconduct by defaming

529
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: the Pirates of the Caribbean. Actor New York Maine is

530
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: asking for a ruling from the judge, saying just that. So,

531
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: bottom line, you've got two insurance companies fighting it out.

532
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: One insurance company is demanding the other insurance company cough

533
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: up the part they believe is owed to reinstate. Amber

534
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: heard bottom line, to reimburse her pay for her attorneys.

535
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: Right now, the insurance company is saying, we're not paying

536
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: because what she did, the comments she made or intentional,

537
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: we don't cover that. We'll cover if you get a

538
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: leak under your sink, but we're not covering intentional defamatory comments.

539
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: What about it, Daryl. I don't like what they're saying

540
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: because if she testified as to the truth, and that's

541
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: a very big if, then they have to cover her

542
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: in my view. But if she lied, then that's a

543
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: whole different story. If her story was the truth, then

544
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: she didn't defame him. Well, clearly, the jury didn't believe it.

545
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely the jury did, but they didn't believe it because

546
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: of her body language. They didn't believe it because of

547
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: the way she acted in court. They didn't believe it

548
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: because of what she wore. And finally about two thirds

549
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: of the way through, she finally started dressing appropriately. Now

550
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: she's back to the way she was. What are you

551
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: talking about. What I'm talking about is body language. What

552
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about his facial expressions. You're talking about close.

553
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: It's about close, it's about her face. It's about the

554
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: way she carried herself. And juries look at that, and

555
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: sometimes they really pay attention just the evidence, but usually

556
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: they want to see the defend that They want to

557
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: see the victim. They want to see the plaintiff. They

558
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: want to see exactly what's going on and feel it.

559
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: And she gave an aura of being bad, and that's

560
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: not good. But there also were a couple of instances

561
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: where she was proven to have lied in giving evidence.

562
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: She claimed that she had donated all of this money

563
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: to the ACLU, and then had to backtrack on the

564
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: stand and said, oh no, actually, when I said that

565
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: I had donated that money, what I actually meant was

566
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: that I had pledged to donate the money over time.

567
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,479
Speaker 1: She also claimed that Johnny Depp threw Kate Moss down

568
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: the stairs, only to then be incredibly embarrassed when Kate

569
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: Moss herself gave incredible one and a half minute long

570
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: testimony to say that that was not the case, and

571
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: actually she had fallen down and Johnny Depp had rushed

572
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: to her. Aid. Now, while I appreciate that that is

573
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: not necessarily Amber lying specifically about Johnny Depp abusing her,

574
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: that is evidence that she lied in court. Well, that's

575
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: not all that's happening in the amber her or Johnny

576
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: Depp front Take a listen our cut eighty three Our

577
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 1: friends over at e On June twenty seventh, the report's

578
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: surfaced claiming the actor was working on a three hundred

579
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: and one million dollar deal to reboot his iconic character

580
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: Captain Jack Sparrow on screen, four years after the actor

581
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: parted ways with Disney. A source tells Pop Topic the

582
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: company is quote very interested in patching up their relationship

583
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: with Johnny Depp, adding they are very hopeful that Johnny

584
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: will forgive them and return to his iconic character. But

585
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: don't fly your Skull and Crossbones flag. Jessyad Sparrow'stands, a

586
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: rep for the actor, tells NBC News of the report,

587
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: this is made up. That's a far cry from what

588
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: we heard from Johnny Depp himself at trial. Take a

589
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: listen to Dip on the stand. But it's odd that

590
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: they were going to release me from my role as

591
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: Captain Jack Sparrow, yet kept me on every ride across

592
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: the world. In the Pirates of the Caribbean rides, I'm

593
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles or the Hollywood or whatever it is,

594
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: three or four times Shanghai, I mean all over the world.

595
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: So they didn't remove my character from the rides. They

596
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: didn't stop selling merchandise of Captain Jack Sparrow. They didn't

597
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: stop selling dolls if Captain Jack Sparrow. They didn't stop

598
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: selling anything. They just didn't want there to be something

599
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: trailing behind me that they'd find. And you aren't aware,

600
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: you said, Pirate six in your view is dangling. You're

601
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: you're not aware of if or when Pirate six will

602
00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: be made correct. And the fact is, mister Depp, if

603
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: Disney came to you with three hundred million dollars and

604
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: a million alpacas. Nothing on this earth would get you

605
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: to go back and work with Disney on a Pirate

606
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: of the Caribbean film for its true mister Rolandborn. You

607
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 1: know what, I've got a very strong feeling, Charlie Lankston,

608
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: that if Disney asked Depp to be Jack Sparrow again,

609
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: he would do it. What's the word, Charlie, I absolutely

610
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: agree with you, and I think the truth of the

611
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: matter is, you know, Johnny Depp was persona non grotta

612
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: in Hollywood for a number of years after all of

613
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: this amber Heard stuff came out, and I think that

614
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: really what he wanted from this defamation trial was not

615
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: to bankrupt amber Heard. He didn't want her to give

616
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: him eight million dollars. What he wanted was to restore

617
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: his reputation so that he can be Hollywood Great Johnny

618
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 1: Depp again. And I think that if Disney comes begging,

619
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: and you know, comes calling, he would absolutely do one

620
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: of the movies, if anything, because it serves as the

621
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: ultimate piece of evidence that Johnny Depp is back, and

622
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: that he should never have been cast out of Hollywood

623
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: in the first place, and that his reputation is well

624
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: and truly restored. Because if Disney is willing to work

625
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: with him again after throwing him out of their movies,

626
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: that sends a message to the world that they believe

627
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: he is innocent. And you know, if the most magical

628
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 1: place on earth is happy to back your character, then

629
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: so should everyone else. What can you tell me a

630
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: better debt project? Dealing with Louis the Fifteenth. So he

631
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: is rumored to be working on a new Netflix backed

632
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: feature film in which he will portray King Louis the fifteenth.

633
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: It will be a French film. It's going to be

634
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: his first French film. Obviously, he was married to a

635
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: French model many years ago Vanessa Paradise, So he has

636
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: a long standing connection with France. And you know, this

637
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: is kind of one of those projects that could really

638
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: throw him back into the mix of this generation's great

639
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: kind of acting legends. And I think that that's what

640
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: he wants to do. I think that he wants to

641
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: get back to his first and foremost passion, and that

642
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: is being in front of the cameras portraying great movie roles.

643
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: And the Herd said it herself, he is a phenomenal actor.

644
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: He is a brilliant actor, and that's what he wants

645
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: to get back to doing well. The word is. It

646
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: has not been confirmed that Netflix will stream Louis the fifteen.

647
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: I believe that the working title is a Law Favorite,

648
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: the Favorite, and that it will stream on Netflix fifteen

649
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: months after the French theatrical release of the movie. We'll

650
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: see if that happens. Of course, everybody in America wants

651
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: to know will there be a Captain Jack Sparrow movie

652
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: put out by Disney? But what I want to know

653
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: is how this will all play out in a court

654
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: of law. We ever really know after all the tape recordings,

655
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: all the allegations, all the fighting, all the drinking, all

656
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: the drugging, what really happened. I don't like the fact

657
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: that justice has turned on its head by how somebody

658
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: appears on the stand or what they wear. I want

659
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: to know what really happened and what is the truth?

660
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: We wait as justice some faults. Nancy Grace comes to

661
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: a Sony off Goodbye. Think