WEBVTT - Pennywise Surprisingly Anti-Queer 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.360 Can you do your best? What's your do an impression? Um, 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:16.600 it's kind of hard. Um, God hates fags. Today, we're 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.439 gonna you know, file out the what's the what's the 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:26.400 code and libraries. We are going to uh file We're gonna, um, 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.080 we're gonna look at the Dewey decimal system and you 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.200 can check out a Stephen King book from the library. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.320 Fully not knowing how the Dewey decimal system working, because 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.040 this is like a virgin the show where we give 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.360 yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo and I'm 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:47.760 fran Toronto. You are aware that I was a somewhat 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.680 precocious child, right, I think I've given some evidence to 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.760 that fact. No, no't no. I I feel like you 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.760 were totally normal, like a completely you know, not a nondescript, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.640 kind of unmemorable childhood from what I remembered, totally sweet 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:06.559 and demure. Well I might have been, but I was corrupted. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.760 And I actually have always been able to trace that 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:16.280 corruption to one choice. Sure, just one. Well, I'm one 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.759 that that stands out as defining. And I think I've 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.199 said before that I've always been a big reader. Um, 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.440 you know, if I was like in a rom com 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.399 or something. The thing about me would be like I 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:34.679 love to read it so quirky. Um, But um, you know, 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.160 I never I kind of went straight from children's fair 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:44.200 to adult literature. And the way that that happened was 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.800 through the work of Stephen King. Because I was I 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.840 spent a lot of time at the library as a kid, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.440 especially when I spent weekends with my dad, And I 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.720 remember being in the library one day and for some reason, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.200 I was in the like adult book section because I 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.840 was already a little like I knew that I was different. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.960 And I saw a book cover um of a woman's 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.600 face and it was on fire, and I just had 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.000 to know what it was. And it was the novel 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:22.000 Carry by Stephen King. And I checked it out of 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.240 the library and read it and was obsessed with it. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.680 And I do think it was one of the things 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:33.320 that fundamentally shaped and shifted the kind of media I 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.760 was interested in and the kind of cooky, spooky girl 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.360 I would become. Okay, I want to hear about this, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:40.919 but can we just have a quick aside to tell 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.480 the truth on this podcast that there is like a 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.240 kind of like phrase in the culture which is you 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.240 can't judge a book by its cover, but I actually 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.919 find that a lot of times you can the book. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.680 The book cover is about as good as the book. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.679 Like that really happens a lot, and we as a 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.320 culture should be saying that. Yeah. I mean that's why 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.320 when you see all these covers, stay of the with 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.560 the with the cartoon people of them, you know exactly 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.880 what kind of book you're you're about to get yourself in. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.320 Rose and I are alluding to like a genre of 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:22.079 like rom com books that we're talking about, Red White Royal. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.160 there are these little kind of like oscar health style, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.240 like millennial illustrations on the cover of like two little 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.000 you know, gays. It's like a guy with this arms crossed, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:37.760 another guy's like leading against one of the letters. Anyway, 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.960 you know exactly what you're signing up for. So Carrie, Yeah, Carrie, 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.920 And I was very young. I was in fourth grade, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.840 so let's say I was eight or nine years old, 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:54.040 way too young to read Carrie, which is a horrifying book. 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.440 Um that's kind of made all the more horrifying because 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.400 of how first person it is, so you're very much 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.840 in the psyche of all these people doing horrible things 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.800 having horrible things done to them, and it really did 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.200 shape me in a lot of ways. So I do 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:19.599 owe a lot of myself in a way to Stephen King. 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:21.520 And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.760 talk about him today, along with the fact that when 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.159 you're talking about the horror genre, you can't not talk 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.160 about Stephen King, because Stephen King is often credited as 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.919 the father of modern horror. And I think when you 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.960 look out at the cultural landscape of horror, supernatural horror, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:46.280 everything can be traced in some way back to Stephen King, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.320 at least American horror. And when we see things like 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.440 stranger things or goose bumps or like things like that, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.080 like it all is in his lineage. And I think 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.279 the tropes that make a Stephen King book are things 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.320 that are going to be replicated till the end of time. Yeah, 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:08.320 And you did not have like much familiarity with Stephen 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.440 King before I brought this episode up. Prior prior to 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.800 preparing for this podcast, the only Stephen King thing I 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:21.400 had ever seen was the Carrie remakes starring Chloe Grace 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.760 Morett's and Julianne Moore, which I did on your insistence, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.520 watch half of last night and we'll get into it. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.760 But I I knew you wouldn't spoiler alert. I was 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.279 not happy. Um, So let's talk about the man, the myth, 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.080 the legend, Stephen King. Um. Stephen King's old. I don't 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.760 know how old, but he's an old white man. So 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.599 who cares. Um. He's published sixty four novels, which is 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.479 a lot um more than that flop Joyce, Carol ods 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.640 have you did you see the oats tweet that has 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.680 been that was circulating about what about how she's not 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.560 hot and shouldn't be writing about Marilyn writing. Look, it's 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.960 it's not it's it's kind of not wrong that that's 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.880 we kind of spilled like literary non hotties should know 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.080 their lane, and we do. We do. Um. So he's 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.520 written a lot of books. I would say that some 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.799 of the things that he kind of returns to over 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:22.800 and over again are childhood and adolescence. That's a huge 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.200 part of a lot of his novels. And I would say, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.800 especially the most famous ones, the Manifestation of Inner Demons 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:35.719 as Outer Demons, he talks a lot about addiction. Um. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.480 He is famously was an alcoholic and it worked its 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.680 way into a lot of his writing. I didn't even 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.919 know that. Um. And I also think you know his 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:51.680 kind of um fascination with an understanding of children adolescence. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.200 A lot of that comes from the fact that he 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.400 was a teacher. M Kerry, which was his first published novel. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.760 It was it was originally published as a short story, um, 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.560 while he was working as a teacher at a like 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.440 a fancy private boarding school, and then the book was 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.960 published in nineteen seventy four, um, and that is really 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.760 what started his career. I would say he didn't pick 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:20.360 up like he still kind of worked as a teacher 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.840 throughout the seventies, even as he started to publish more 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.280 novels and they became adopted into films. Carry was adopted 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.000 into a film only two years after it was published. Wow, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.640 So he became kind of an immediate sense. He wasn't 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.200 he was an immediate sensation. I would say that, like 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.400 the real Stephen king Mania is very eighties and that 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.720 is when he became the figure he is today, which 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.000 is I think it's he's a very as our producer 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.400 put it, um, Airport Bookstore author. That's how I would 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.200 have categorized him to like, to be totally honest, like, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.400 I just as I didn't know anything about Stephen King, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.680 and in my head he's in the category of airport novels. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:05.160 I would have catalog when when authors are this prolific, sorry, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.320 like the Daniel Steels of the world, or like the 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.760 John Grishams or whatever you kind of um I put 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.440 him into that category of like a person who makes 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:19.160 a ton of um almost formulaically engaging novels, you know 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.320 what I mean? And I don't actually think maybe that 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.400 Stephen King belongs in that. I think what he does 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.880 is maybe a lot more masterful, or at least his 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.520 popular work is a lot more masterful than airport PAPERVACU 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.560 think so too, when when when I say airport novels, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.160 I just mean that he's reached such a critical mass 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.680 of consumption that his work is readily available, his work 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.960 is always being adopted. We're right now in a in 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.240 a moment where for the next couple of years there's 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.880 like almost always going to be some Stephen King adaptation happening, 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.480 which I honestly think is part of like effect, right, 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.319 Like I think that a new popular rization and or 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:07.360 rather invigoration of prestige horror and UM a greater popular 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.079 popularization of horror and possibility for horror to win awards. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.560 I think it's being people are being like, well, what 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.520 other Stephen King things are like out there that we 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.160 haven't you know, looked at. Yeah, And so much of 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.920 his work has been revisited multiple times, as we see 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.040 with Carrie with It UM. A lot of it has 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.920 also kind of been remixed UM in a in an 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:33.960 almost incestuous way, like the Hulu series Castle Rock that 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.320 UM aired a couple of years ago, and I tried 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.280 watching a few episodes of and just wasn't super interested. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.439 But it was a TV show in which UM characters 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.640 from all of his novels kind of lived in the 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.760 same town and interacted with each other. UM. So there's 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:55.320 just so he's he really has UM spread kind of 0:09:55.360 --> 0:10:02.959 out to every aspect of our culture, and now his UM, 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:09.680 his sensibility is one that is now being mimicked by uh, 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.040 you know, the new things that are peak culture, Like 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.560 like you mentioned, Stranger Things. Stranger Things is a direct 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:21.640 homage to Stephen King. It's the you know, kids, kids 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:26.480 riding around on bicycles, spooky stuff happens young girl with 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:31.000 you know, terrifying powers, Like it's all allusions to things 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:36.040 like it like fire Starter and carry um, like stand 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.959 by Me. So he has had all of these peaks 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.760 and valleys of being you know, relevant in culture, and 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.760 I don't think that's stopping anytime soon. So you know, 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.120 what better time to talk about him than in our 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.200 spooky era. And I think that honestly, something that's like 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.280 indicative of like more or rather more things that are 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.520 indicative of Stephen King's work that you're kind of getting 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:05.720 at is the storied quality to them that like supersedes 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.160 the horror genre. Like if you took the IT Book 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.160 or whatever and you took out all the kind of 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.000 horrific graphic things that happened and happened in it, it 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.600 would still be a fucking good, compelling story. You know, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.360 he is a master of plot, and you know, I 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.040 think that you you pointed out the stranger things um 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.000 parallel to me when we were watching for the Part 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.080 one remake together. But like something that I've noticed after 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.800 consuming a few more things in preparation for this episode 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.640 is that Stephen King's work has a kind of like 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.200 sublime eerieness to it, Like there's the kind of obvious 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:48.600 eereness of like basements or ghosts or you know, things 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.760 like that. But like Stephen King understood why clowns are 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.800 scary or whatever, he knows why twins are scary, right, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.600 Like um, a kid with an imaginary friend, a really 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:05.240 really Christian protective mom. Right, he sees the kind of 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:11.160 hidden uneasiness that we might encounter in a literal, normal 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.600 human life, and it's an eeriness that is pulled out 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.360 of our lives. Like there's a really good quote from 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.720 the Philosophy of horror Um in which Noel Carol writes 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.160 that for King, the horror story is always a contest 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.319 between the normal and the abnormal, such that the normal 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.800 is reinstated and therefore affirmed. That's such a great way 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.280 of putting it. It's like what I was trying to say, honestly, 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.480 and and yeah, and I think on top of that, 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.200 the thing that you were talking about, that childhood adolescence 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.160 um component that works its way into a lot of 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.000 the books, I think lends itself to Stephen King's fascination 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:52.800 with outsiders, nerds, people that are ostracized. Deviance, yes, deviance 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.920 of any kind. Um, people with unique talents, people more skills. Yes, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.280 And I think that also, like that abnormal normal thing 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.679 you're talking about is like Stephen King, I think introduces 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:12.480 um very inventive, if not totally bizarre monsters and scares, 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.880 like things that you could never really I think. I 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.080 think the specificity of his work is what makes it 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.600 really good. And I also think, honestly, the specificity of 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.240 his work is something that gets him in troublesometimes. But um, 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.280 we'll get into that. Yes, but you know, let's go 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.360 back to the beginning, both for Stephen King and for 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.839 me more importantly. Um So Carrie, as I said, was 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.440 published in ur first as um, you know, a story 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.360 in a magazine, and it was something that he thought 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.439 he should like stop working on, and his wife, Tabitha, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.280 was like, no, no, this is good, you should keep 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.360 at it. And he kind of leaned on her to 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.880 help get inside the female psyche. So his wife's name 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.840 was Tabitha. Is that weird? Tabitha? I mean, she's sounds 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.240 a name. She sounds like a like a wench. I 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.360 think it sounds like Tabitha makes perfect sense. Is the 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.080 name of someone who's married to Stephen Carry, Yes, it does. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.400 That's I don't know, she's still married. It's like two 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.320 on the nose is like what I'm saying, that's funny. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.880 So Carrie for the Virgins UM is a very short 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.600 novel about a girl named Carrie. A girly named Carrie 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.640 White who um is bullied at school because she's weird 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.040 and also because she has an extremely religious mother who 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.440 has sheltered her her entire life. The book starts with 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:40.080 Carrie getting her first period um during gym class in 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.080 the showers, and her mother has never told her what 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.200 it is, and so she thinks that she's dying. And 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.120 the other girls who kind of have been looking for 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.640 this reason like an excuse to bully her, um, you know, 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.960 torment her in this really ugly way, and it unlocks 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.240 this latent ability Carrie has, which is telekinesis, which is, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.640 you know, being able to move things with your mind. Um. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.000 These girls are punished by not being able to go 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.320 to the prom um and they react in different ways. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.280 One of them decides to have her boyfriend take Carrie 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.240 to the prom out of penance. UM, and then one 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.800 of them decides to further humiliate Carry at the prom 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.280 Um and this all leads to, you know, the iconic 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.840 scene where it Carries Crown prom queen gets pigs blood 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.760 dumped on her and then her mind fractures and as 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:38.680 revenge she destroy She kills everyone, destroys the town, kills 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.160 and is killed by her mother. Oh, she's killed by 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.520 her mother in the original Yes, and in both in 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:53.160 both the book and the film adaptation. Before Carrie is 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.120 able to kill her mother, her mother stabs her, and 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.680 then Carrie kills her mother and escape. It's their house 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.680 which burns to the ground and Um you know, dies 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.040 later after Sue Snell, the sort of sympathetic girl who 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.040 had her boyfriend take carry to the prom Um, finds 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.440 her and with her as she dies. UM. In the 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.400 In the book it's it's Um a little differently than 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:24.680 the Brian de Palma film. Um Carries Powers also have 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:30.480 a sort of you know, psychic um, a component where 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.800 people in the town. Because the book is an epistolatory novel, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.160 so a lot of it is told through UM letters 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.960 and through letters and also UM transcriptions from so in 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:49.400 the world of the novel, what happened Um in Chamberlain, Maine, 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.160 which is where the book is set Um has become 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.000 this national phenomenon, and there's a whole inquiry into it. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.240 So a lot of the novel is told through court 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.440 transcripts or magazine are articles um, and you find out 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.760 that a lot of people, like while Carrie was going 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.800 on her rampage, I knew what was happening because they 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.879 had the psychic connection with her. And Sue Smell at 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.040 the end of the novel is inside Carrie's mind while 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.879 she dies, and it it adds this component to it 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.960 of um, this girl not only taking her pain out 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.440 on people in a physical way, but also kind of 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:29.000 making this town that has tortured her be witness to 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.920 what is happening. Can we talk about the fact that 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.280 like in this kind of like out the outsider troupe 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.040 that's like in Stephen King's books, this like psychotic break 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.080 that Carrie has and the literal revenge that she enacts 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.000 on like the people that have like really torture her 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.680 is so satisfying. It is, it is incredibly satisfying, but 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:57.640 it's also horrific Um. And it it is that fantasy 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.520 that all of us have of being able to get 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:05.200 revenge on but but it's taken to you know, the 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.879 nth degree. But it also is the blueprint for a 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.760 lot of things that would come after it. You know, 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.200 we would not have things like um, The Dark Phoenix, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.600 Saga and X Men. We would not have Wanda Maxim 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.480 off the Scarlet which, you know, losing her mind. Um, 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.680 we wouldn't have like Willow from Buffy going evil. All 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.360 of that. It goes directly back to carry these mentally 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:36.439 unstable powerful women, you know, letting loose on the world 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.960 or the universe favorite tune to them. It is also 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:43.040 one of my favorite tropes. Yeah, I um, I've never 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.119 have I've yet to see the original. It was one 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:46.920 of the things that I was not able to get 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.440 to before we watched, but I did. Such a beautiful, 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:56.439 beautiful film. I can't It's incredibly sad. Sissy Space is 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:01.040 so good in it. And even though Sissy's basic is beautiful, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.720 she has this sort of like awkward gazelle like quality 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:10.199 that works really well. Um for Carrie. It reminds me, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:12.879 or at least what you're describing, and from what I 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.040 know from like clips of the movie. It actually I'm 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.760 just now feeling like it's reminding me of Shelley Duval 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.000 and the Shining like it kind of feels like a 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:25.960 similar archetype and like an unassuming, like skinny, awkward white 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.960 woman and her mother who's played by Piper Laurie. Um, 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:36.560 you know, Margaret Um is horrifying. UM. I mean, she's 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.760 as she's given sort of this I think, I mean, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.159 because Piper Laurie was so beautiful, she's almost um like 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:49.240 resplendent in her you know, um psychopathy in the movie. 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.879 In the book, it's much more. It's just disturbing because 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.200 you also there's a lot of chapters that are first 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.760 you know, from her perspective um of how you know, 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.879 she sees Carrie as this as um, you know, an 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.520 abomination because she you find out that Carrie's mother was raped, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.879 that's how she became pregnant with her, and she wanted 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.000 to kill her when she was born and she didn't, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.680 and she sort of regretted that Carrie's whole life. But 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.800 genetic trauma honestly is like also a thing in Stephen 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.239 King's books, like the parents are always fucked up and 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.159 makes the kids sucked up, Like he really over and 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.080 over again, has a kind of childhood thing that keeps 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.439 coming through and according to my therapist, I have a 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:51.639 similar thing. You watched a half of the reboot starring 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.159 Chloe Grayson, Rats and Julianne Moore. I okay, I have 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.639 to say when I watched this movie years ago, I 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.480 had a pretty low threshold old um of quality for 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.800 like horror movies in general. So I remember actually really 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.960 liking it, in large part because I like Julianne Moore 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.640 and I like Chloe Grace Morett's um But I think 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.040 that the thing maybe you did not like about it, 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.239 which I now retroactively do not like about it is 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:22.040 the kind of imaxification of the story right, like it's rotted, 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.919 it's and I don't even I mean, what do you 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.879 mean by imaxification? I feel like, um, the so you 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.480 didn't get to the end, but like I you see 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.480 it throughout the film I've watched. I have watched clips 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.720 of the prom scene, so I do know a little 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.400 bit what the end looks like. Okay, It's like she 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.479 literally like blows up the town. There there's so many 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:51.320 special effects explosions like um c g I elements that 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.439 like have to create Carrie's kind of like psychotic break. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.160 And I think that that is in large part like 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.879 what's wrong with like a mayor Can movies right now? 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.720 Like it just scrubs out. I think a lot of 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.280 the integrity of what could be a really good story, 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:09.959 Like these are complaints that you and I have of, 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.440 Like a lot of Marvel movies are like a lot 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.120 of just like when when it gets too far into 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:17.080 the c G, I it's like I don't really care 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.320 about these characters as much anymore. Right well, because the 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.880 original movie is all practical effects and it's so much 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.440 more effective. The remake, I think is bad a lot 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:34.560 because of Chloe Grace Maria ut perfectly cast. She's not 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.920 she's she's way too pretty to be carried like I 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.040 is carrying on supposed to be pretty. No. I mean 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.160 in the book she's written as much more like kind 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.359 of plain and dumpy. But I don't think it. I 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.399 don't think it's like, um, she needed to be ugly. 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.320 It's just she looks like a movie star. And I 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:52.640 mean that's a problem with all movies, is like these 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:57.200 people just look like very attractive actors. Um. But Chloe 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.679 Grace Martz is also just a bad actress. Um, She's 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.359 just not believable in the way that Sasy's face it was. 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.919 And I also think this is a film that is 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.080 I don't think it really works outside of its time 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.840 in a couple ways, Like I can suspend disbelief that 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:20.600 in the seventies Carrie White would, because of her extremely 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:24.919 religious mother, not know about menstruation. But I don't believe 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.719 that a teenager in the tens, no matter how sheltered 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:31.720 they were, would who went to public school, would not 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.200 know about menstruation, like would not have taken a health 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.800 class at some point. It's just not believable. Yeah, I 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:40.399 I the the reboot. Yeah, it takes place in the 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.360 modern day ish and like, I totally totally agree with you, 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.760 I do think, Like, honestly, another reason, maybe another reason 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.760 I enjoyed it was really just because it was the 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.920 first time I was watching any iteration of the Carry story, 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.880 and I probably would have had a much more positive 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.520 reaction if I had watched the original first. But I 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:00.199 think a lot of what I was feeling and I 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.960 was watching it was kind of my own connection to 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.160 the subject matter, you know, like, I don't know, it's 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.400 really personal. My my mom is not a Carry level mom. 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:12.919 Like it's it's not anything like that, but like a 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.959 child that is like protected from the world because of 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:21.040 like oppressive Christianity and like you know, doesn't know things 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.480 about her own body that then cause real world harm 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.320 to her because of that kind of protection. I was 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.480 just like, whoa like that actually is like something that 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.439 uniquely hits home and hasn't like a an ever present 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.040 relevant to it. But I totally agree with you, it's 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.119 it doesn't make sense in the two thousand's. Yeah. Also, 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.120 all the girls in the movie look like Paxson models 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:48.440 really weird. M Chloe Grace Moretza's hair extensions are I mean, 0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:52.240 are like a horror movie unto themselves. What about Julianne 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:55.679 Moore's hair extensions, I mean Julianne Moore's it's not hair always. 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:58.399 It's not that it's not actually a hair extension problem 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:01.480