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Speaker 1: Can you do your best? What's your do an impression? Um,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard. Um, God hates fags. Today, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, file out the what's the what's the

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Speaker 1: code and libraries. We are going to uh file We're gonna, um,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna look at the Dewey decimal system and you

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Speaker 1: can check out a Stephen King book from the library.

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Speaker 1: Fully not knowing how the Dewey decimal system working, because

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Speaker 1: this is like a virgin the show where we give

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Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo and I'm

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Speaker 1: fran Toronto. You are aware that I was a somewhat

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Speaker 1: precocious child, right, I think I've given some evidence to

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Speaker 1: that fact. No, no't no. I I feel like you

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Speaker 1: were totally normal, like a completely you know, not a nondescript,

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Speaker 1: kind of unmemorable childhood from what I remembered, totally sweet

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Speaker 1: and demure. Well I might have been, but I was corrupted.

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Speaker 1: And I actually have always been able to trace that

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Speaker 1: corruption to one choice. Sure, just one. Well, I'm one

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Speaker 1: that that stands out as defining. And I think I've

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Speaker 1: said before that I've always been a big reader. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I was like in a rom com

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Speaker 1: or something. The thing about me would be like I

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Speaker 1: love to read it so quirky. Um, But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I never I kind of went straight from children's fair

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Speaker 1: to adult literature. And the way that that happened was

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Speaker 1: through the work of Stephen King. Because I was I

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time at the library as a kid,

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Speaker 1: especially when I spent weekends with my dad, And I

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Speaker 1: remember being in the library one day and for some reason,

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Speaker 1: I was in the like adult book section because I

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Speaker 1: was already a little like I knew that I was different.

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Speaker 1: And I saw a book cover um of a woman's

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Speaker 1: face and it was on fire, and I just had

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Speaker 1: to know what it was. And it was the novel

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Speaker 1: Carry by Stephen King. And I checked it out of

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Speaker 1: the library and read it and was obsessed with it.

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Speaker 1: And I do think it was one of the things

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Speaker 1: that fundamentally shaped and shifted the kind of media I

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Speaker 1: was interested in and the kind of cooky, spooky girl

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Speaker 1: I would become. Okay, I want to hear about this,

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Speaker 1: but can we just have a quick aside to tell

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Speaker 1: the truth on this podcast that there is like a

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Speaker 1: kind of like phrase in the culture which is you

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Speaker 1: can't judge a book by its cover, but I actually

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Speaker 1: find that a lot of times you can the book.

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Speaker 1: The book cover is about as good as the book.

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Speaker 1: Like that really happens a lot, and we as a

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Speaker 1: culture should be saying that. Yeah. I mean that's why

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Speaker 1: when you see all these covers, stay of the with

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Speaker 1: the with the cartoon people of them, you know exactly

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Speaker 1: what kind of book you're you're about to get yourself in.

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Speaker 1: Rose and I are alluding to like a genre of

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Speaker 1: like rom com books that we're talking about, Red White Royal. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are these little kind of like oscar health style,

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Speaker 1: like millennial illustrations on the cover of like two little

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Speaker 1: you know, gays. It's like a guy with this arms crossed,

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Speaker 1: another guy's like leading against one of the letters. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly what you're signing up for. So Carrie, Yeah, Carrie,

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Speaker 1: And I was very young. I was in fourth grade,

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Speaker 1: so let's say I was eight or nine years old,

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Speaker 1: way too young to read Carrie, which is a horrifying book.

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Speaker 1: Um that's kind of made all the more horrifying because

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Speaker 1: of how first person it is, so you're very much

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Speaker 1: in the psyche of all these people doing horrible things

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Speaker 1: having horrible things done to them, and it really did

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Speaker 1: shape me in a lot of ways. So I do

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Speaker 1: owe a lot of myself in a way to Stephen King.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about him today, along with the fact that when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the horror genre, you can't not talk

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Speaker 1: about Stephen King, because Stephen King is often credited as

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Speaker 1: the father of modern horror. And I think when you

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Speaker 1: look out at the cultural landscape of horror, supernatural horror,

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Speaker 1: everything can be traced in some way back to Stephen King,

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Speaker 1: at least American horror. And when we see things like

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Speaker 1: stranger things or goose bumps or like things like that,

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Speaker 1: like it all is in his lineage. And I think

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Speaker 1: the tropes that make a Stephen King book are things

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Speaker 1: that are going to be replicated till the end of time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you did not have like much familiarity with Stephen

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Speaker 1: King before I brought this episode up. Prior prior to

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Speaker 1: preparing for this podcast, the only Stephen King thing I

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Speaker 1: had ever seen was the Carrie remakes starring Chloe Grace

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Speaker 1: Morett's and Julianne Moore, which I did on your insistence,

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Speaker 1: watch half of last night and we'll get into it.

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Speaker 1: But I I knew you wouldn't spoiler alert. I was

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Speaker 1: not happy. Um, So let's talk about the man, the myth,

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Speaker 1: the legend, Stephen King. Um. Stephen King's old. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how old, but he's an old white man. So

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Speaker 1: who cares. Um. He's published sixty four novels, which is

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Speaker 1: a lot um more than that flop Joyce, Carol ods

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Speaker 1: have you did you see the oats tweet that has

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Speaker 1: been that was circulating about what about how she's not

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Speaker 1: hot and shouldn't be writing about Marilyn writing. Look, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not it's it's kind of not wrong that that's

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Speaker 1: we kind of spilled like literary non hotties should know

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Speaker 1: their lane, and we do. We do. Um. So he's

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Speaker 1: written a lot of books. I would say that some

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Speaker 1: of the things that he kind of returns to over

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Speaker 1: and over again are childhood and adolescence. That's a huge

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Speaker 1: part of a lot of his novels. And I would say,

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Speaker 1: especially the most famous ones, the Manifestation of Inner Demons

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Speaker 1: as Outer Demons, he talks a lot about addiction. Um.

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Speaker 1: He is famously was an alcoholic and it worked its

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Speaker 1: way into a lot of his writing. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know that. Um. And I also think you know his

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Speaker 1: kind of um fascination with an understanding of children adolescence.

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Speaker 1: A lot of that comes from the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was a teacher. M Kerry, which was his first published novel.

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Speaker 1: It was it was originally published as a short story, um,

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Speaker 1: while he was working as a teacher at a like

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Speaker 1: a fancy private boarding school, and then the book was

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Speaker 1: published in nineteen seventy four, um, and that is really

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Speaker 1: what started his career. I would say he didn't pick

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Speaker 1: up like he still kind of worked as a teacher

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Speaker 1: throughout the seventies, even as he started to publish more

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Speaker 1: novels and they became adopted into films. Carry was adopted

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Speaker 1: into a film only two years after it was published. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So he became kind of an immediate sense. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: he was an immediate sensation. I would say that, like

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Speaker 1: the real Stephen king Mania is very eighties and that

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Speaker 1: is when he became the figure he is today, which

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Speaker 1: is I think it's he's a very as our producer

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Speaker 1: put it, um, Airport Bookstore author. That's how I would

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Speaker 1: have categorized him to like, to be totally honest, like,

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Speaker 1: I just as I didn't know anything about Stephen King,

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Speaker 1: and in my head he's in the category of airport novels.

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Speaker 1: I would have catalog when when authors are this prolific, sorry,

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Speaker 1: like the Daniel Steels of the world, or like the

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Speaker 1: John Grishams or whatever you kind of um I put

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Speaker 1: him into that category of like a person who makes

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Speaker 1: a ton of um almost formulaically engaging novels, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? And I don't actually think maybe that

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Speaker 1: Stephen King belongs in that. I think what he does

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Speaker 1: is maybe a lot more masterful, or at least his

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Speaker 1: popular work is a lot more masterful than airport PAPERVACU

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Speaker 1: think so too, when when when I say airport novels,

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Speaker 1: I just mean that he's reached such a critical mass

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Speaker 1: of consumption that his work is readily available, his work

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Speaker 1: is always being adopted. We're right now in a in

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Speaker 1: a moment where for the next couple of years there's

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Speaker 1: like almost always going to be some Stephen King adaptation happening,

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Speaker 1: which I honestly think is part of like effect, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I think that a new popular rization and or

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Speaker 1: rather invigoration of prestige horror and UM a greater popular

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Speaker 1: popularization of horror and possibility for horror to win awards.

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Speaker 1: I think it's being people are being like, well, what

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Speaker 1: other Stephen King things are like out there that we

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Speaker 1: haven't you know, looked at. Yeah, And so much of

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Speaker 1: his work has been revisited multiple times, as we see

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Speaker 1: with Carrie with It UM. A lot of it has

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Speaker 1: also kind of been remixed UM in a in an

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Speaker 1: almost incestuous way, like the Hulu series Castle Rock that

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Speaker 1: UM aired a couple of years ago, and I tried

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Speaker 1: watching a few episodes of and just wasn't super interested.

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Speaker 1: But it was a TV show in which UM characters

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Speaker 1: from all of his novels kind of lived in the

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Speaker 1: same town and interacted with each other. UM. So there's

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Speaker 1: just so he's he really has UM spread kind of

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Speaker 1: out to every aspect of our culture, and now his UM,

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Speaker 1: his sensibility is one that is now being mimicked by uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the new things that are peak culture, Like

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Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Stranger Things. Stranger Things is a direct

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Speaker 1: homage to Stephen King. It's the you know, kids, kids

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Speaker 1: riding around on bicycles, spooky stuff happens young girl with

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Speaker 1: you know, terrifying powers, Like it's all allusions to things

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Speaker 1: like it like fire Starter and carry um, like stand

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Speaker 1: by Me. So he has had all of these peaks

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Speaker 1: and valleys of being you know, relevant in culture, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's stopping anytime soon. So you know,

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Speaker 1: what better time to talk about him than in our

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Speaker 1: spooky era. And I think that honestly, something that's like

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Speaker 1: indicative of like more or rather more things that are

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Speaker 1: indicative of Stephen King's work that you're kind of getting

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Speaker 1: at is the storied quality to them that like supersedes

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Speaker 1: the horror genre. Like if you took the IT Book

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Speaker 1: or whatever and you took out all the kind of

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Speaker 1: horrific graphic things that happened and happened in it, it

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Speaker 1: would still be a fucking good, compelling story. You know,

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Speaker 1: he is a master of plot, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that you you pointed out the stranger things um

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Speaker 1: parallel to me when we were watching for the Part

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Speaker 1: one remake together. But like something that I've noticed after

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Speaker 1: consuming a few more things in preparation for this episode

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Speaker 1: is that Stephen King's work has a kind of like

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Speaker 1: sublime eerieness to it, Like there's the kind of obvious

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Speaker 1: eereness of like basements or ghosts or you know, things

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Speaker 1: like that. But like Stephen King understood why clowns are

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Speaker 1: scary or whatever, he knows why twins are scary, right,

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Speaker 1: Like um, a kid with an imaginary friend, a really

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Speaker 1: really Christian protective mom. Right, he sees the kind of

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Speaker 1: hidden uneasiness that we might encounter in a literal, normal

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Speaker 1: human life, and it's an eeriness that is pulled out

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Speaker 1: of our lives. Like there's a really good quote from

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Speaker 1: the Philosophy of horror Um in which Noel Carol writes

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Speaker 1: that for King, the horror story is always a contest

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Speaker 1: between the normal and the abnormal, such that the normal

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Speaker 1: is reinstated and therefore affirmed. That's such a great way

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Speaker 1: of putting it. It's like what I was trying to say, honestly,

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Speaker 1: and and yeah, and I think on top of that,

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Speaker 1: the thing that you were talking about, that childhood adolescence

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Speaker 1: um component that works its way into a lot of

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Speaker 1: the books, I think lends itself to Stephen King's fascination

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Speaker 1: with outsiders, nerds, people that are ostracized. Deviance, yes, deviance

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Speaker 1: of any kind. Um, people with unique talents, people more skills. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I think that also, like that abnormal normal thing

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Speaker 1: you're talking about is like Stephen King, I think introduces

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Speaker 1: um very inventive, if not totally bizarre monsters and scares,

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Speaker 1: like things that you could never really I think. I

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Speaker 1: think the specificity of his work is what makes it

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Speaker 1: really good. And I also think, honestly, the specificity of

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Speaker 1: his work is something that gets him in troublesometimes. But um,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into that. Yes, but you know, let's go

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning, both for Stephen King and for

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Speaker 1: me more importantly. Um So Carrie, as I said, was

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Speaker 1: published in ur first as um, you know, a story

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Speaker 1: in a magazine, and it was something that he thought

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Speaker 1: he should like stop working on, and his wife, Tabitha,

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Speaker 1: was like, no, no, this is good, you should keep

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Speaker 1: at it. And he kind of leaned on her to

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Speaker 1: help get inside the female psyche. So his wife's name

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Speaker 1: was Tabitha. Is that weird? Tabitha? I mean, she's sounds

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Speaker 1: a name. She sounds like a like a wench. I

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Speaker 1: think it sounds like Tabitha makes perfect sense. Is the

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Speaker 1: name of someone who's married to Stephen Carry, Yes, it does.

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Speaker 1: That's I don't know, she's still married. It's like two

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Speaker 1: on the nose is like what I'm saying, that's funny.

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Speaker 1: So Carrie for the Virgins UM is a very short

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Speaker 1: novel about a girl named Carrie. A girly named Carrie

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Speaker 1: White who um is bullied at school because she's weird

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Speaker 1: and also because she has an extremely religious mother who

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Speaker 1: has sheltered her her entire life. The book starts with

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Speaker 1: Carrie getting her first period um during gym class in

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Speaker 1: the showers, and her mother has never told her what

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Speaker 1: it is, and so she thinks that she's dying. And

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Speaker 1: the other girls who kind of have been looking for

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Speaker 1: this reason like an excuse to bully her, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: torment her in this really ugly way, and it unlocks

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Speaker 1: this latent ability Carrie has, which is telekinesis, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, being able to move things with your mind. Um.

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Speaker 1: These girls are punished by not being able to go

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Speaker 1: to the prom um and they react in different ways.

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Speaker 1: One of them decides to have her boyfriend take Carrie

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Speaker 1: to the prom out of penance. UM, and then one

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Speaker 1: of them decides to further humiliate Carry at the prom

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Speaker 1: Um and this all leads to, you know, the iconic

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Speaker 1: scene where it Carries Crown prom queen gets pigs blood

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Speaker 1: dumped on her and then her mind fractures and as

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Speaker 1: revenge she destroy She kills everyone, destroys the town, kills

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Speaker 1: and is killed by her mother. Oh, she's killed by

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Speaker 1: her mother in the original Yes, and in both in

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Speaker 1: both the book and the film adaptation. Before Carrie is

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Speaker 1: able to kill her mother, her mother stabs her, and

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Speaker 1: then Carrie kills her mother and escape. It's their house

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Speaker 1: which burns to the ground and Um you know, dies

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Speaker 1: later after Sue Snell, the sort of sympathetic girl who

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Speaker 1: had her boyfriend take carry to the prom Um, finds

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Speaker 1: her and with her as she dies. UM. In the

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Speaker 1: In the book it's it's Um a little differently than

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Speaker 1: the Brian de Palma film. Um Carries Powers also have

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Speaker 1: a sort of you know, psychic um, a component where

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Speaker 1: people in the town. Because the book is an epistolatory novel,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of it is told through UM letters

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Speaker 1: and through letters and also UM transcriptions from so in

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Speaker 1: the world of the novel, what happened Um in Chamberlain, Maine,

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Speaker 1: which is where the book is set Um has become

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Speaker 1: this national phenomenon, and there's a whole inquiry into it.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the novel is told through court

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Speaker 1: transcripts or magazine are articles um, and you find out

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people, like while Carrie was going

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Speaker 1: on her rampage, I knew what was happening because they

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Speaker 1: had the psychic connection with her. And Sue Smell at

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Speaker 1: the end of the novel is inside Carrie's mind while

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Speaker 1: she dies, and it it adds this component to it

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Speaker 1: of um, this girl not only taking her pain out

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Speaker 1: on people in a physical way, but also kind of

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Speaker 1: making this town that has tortured her be witness to

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Speaker 1: what is happening. Can we talk about the fact that

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Speaker 1: like in this kind of like out the outsider troupe

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Speaker 1: that's like in Stephen King's books, this like psychotic break

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Speaker 1: that Carrie has and the literal revenge that she enacts

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Speaker 1: on like the people that have like really torture her

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Speaker 1: is so satisfying. It is, it is incredibly satisfying, but

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Speaker 1: it's also horrific Um. And it it is that fantasy

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Speaker 1: that all of us have of being able to get

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Speaker 1: revenge on but but it's taken to you know, the

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Speaker 1: nth degree. But it also is the blueprint for a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that would come after it. You know,

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Speaker 1: we would not have things like um, The Dark Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: Saga and X Men. We would not have Wanda Maxim

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Speaker 1: off the Scarlet which, you know, losing her mind. Um,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have like Willow from Buffy going evil. All

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Speaker 1: of that. It goes directly back to carry these mentally

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Speaker 1: unstable powerful women, you know, letting loose on the world

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Speaker 1: or the universe favorite tune to them. It is also

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite tropes. Yeah, I um, I've never

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Speaker 1: have I've yet to see the original. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I was not able to get

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Speaker 1: to before we watched, but I did. Such a beautiful,

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Speaker 1: beautiful film. I can't It's incredibly sad. Sissy Space is

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Speaker 1: so good in it. And even though Sissy's basic is beautiful,

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Speaker 1: she has this sort of like awkward gazelle like quality

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Speaker 1: that works really well. Um for Carrie. It reminds me,

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Speaker 1: or at least what you're describing, and from what I

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Speaker 1: know from like clips of the movie. It actually I'm

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Speaker 1: just now feeling like it's reminding me of Shelley Duval

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Speaker 1: and the Shining like it kind of feels like a

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Speaker 1: similar archetype and like an unassuming, like skinny, awkward white

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Speaker 1: woman and her mother who's played by Piper Laurie. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Margaret Um is horrifying. UM. I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: as she's given sort of this I think, I mean,

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Speaker 1: because Piper Laurie was so beautiful, she's almost um like

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Speaker 1: resplendent in her you know, um psychopathy in the movie.

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Speaker 1: In the book, it's much more. It's just disturbing because

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Speaker 1: you also there's a lot of chapters that are first

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Speaker 1: you know, from her perspective um of how you know,

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Speaker 1: she sees Carrie as this as um, you know, an

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Speaker 1: abomination because she you find out that Carrie's mother was raped,

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Speaker 1: that's how she became pregnant with her, and she wanted

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Speaker 1: to kill her when she was born and she didn't,

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Speaker 1: and she sort of regretted that Carrie's whole life. But

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Speaker 1: genetic trauma honestly is like also a thing in Stephen

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Speaker 1: King's books, like the parents are always fucked up and

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Speaker 1: makes the kids sucked up, Like he really over and

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Speaker 1: over again, has a kind of childhood thing that keeps

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Speaker 1: coming through and according to my therapist, I have a

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Speaker 1: similar thing. You watched a half of the reboot starring

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Speaker 1: Chloe Grayson, Rats and Julianne Moore. I okay, I have

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Speaker 1: to say when I watched this movie years ago, I

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Speaker 1: had a pretty low threshold old um of quality for

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Speaker 1: like horror movies in general. So I remember actually really

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Speaker 1: liking it, in large part because I like Julianne Moore

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Speaker 1: and I like Chloe Grace Morett's um But I think

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Speaker 1: that the thing maybe you did not like about it,

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Speaker 1: which I now retroactively do not like about it is

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Speaker 1: the kind of imaxification of the story right, like it's rotted,

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Speaker 1: it's and I don't even I mean, what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by imaxification? I feel like, um, the so you

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Speaker 1: didn't get to the end, but like I you see

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Speaker 1: it throughout the film I've watched. I have watched clips

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Speaker 1: of the prom scene, so I do know a little

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Speaker 1: bit what the end looks like. Okay, It's like she

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Speaker 1: literally like blows up the town. There there's so many

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Speaker 1: special effects explosions like um c g I elements that

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Speaker 1: like have to create Carrie's kind of like psychotic break.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is in large part like

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with like a mayor Can movies right now?

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Speaker 1: Like it just scrubs out. I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the integrity of what could be a really good story,

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Speaker 1: Like these are complaints that you and I have of,

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of Marvel movies are like a lot

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Speaker 1: of just like when when it gets too far into

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Speaker 1: the c G, I it's like I don't really care

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Speaker 1: about these characters as much anymore. Right well, because the

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Speaker 1: original movie is all practical effects and it's so much

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Speaker 1: more effective. The remake, I think is bad a lot

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Speaker 1: because of Chloe Grace Maria ut perfectly cast. She's not

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Speaker 1: she's she's way too pretty to be carried like I

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Speaker 1: is carrying on supposed to be pretty. No. I mean

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Speaker 1: in the book she's written as much more like kind

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Speaker 1: of plain and dumpy. But I don't think it. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's like, um, she needed to be ugly.

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Speaker 1: It's just she looks like a movie star. And I

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Speaker 1: mean that's a problem with all movies, is like these

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Speaker 1: people just look like very attractive actors. Um. But Chloe

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Speaker 1: Grace Martz is also just a bad actress. Um, She's

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Speaker 1: just not believable in the way that Sasy's face it was.

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Speaker 1: And I also think this is a film that is

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Speaker 1: I don't think it really works outside of its time

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Speaker 1: in a couple ways, Like I can suspend disbelief that

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Speaker 1: in the seventies Carrie White would, because of her extremely

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Speaker 1: religious mother, not know about menstruation. But I don't believe

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Speaker 1: that a teenager in the tens, no matter how sheltered

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Speaker 1: they were, would who went to public school, would not

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Speaker 1: know about menstruation, like would not have taken a health

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Speaker 1: class at some point. It's just not believable. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I the the reboot. Yeah, it takes place in the

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Speaker 1: modern day ish and like, I totally totally agree with you,

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Speaker 1: I do think, Like, honestly, another reason, maybe another reason

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it was really just because it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I was watching any iteration of the Carry story,

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Speaker 1: and I probably would have had a much more positive

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Speaker 1: reaction if I had watched the original first. But I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of what I was feeling and I

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Speaker 1: was watching it was kind of my own connection to

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Speaker 1: the subject matter, you know, like, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: really personal. My my mom is not a Carry level mom.

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's not anything like that, but like a

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Speaker 1: child that is like protected from the world because of

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Speaker 1: like oppressive Christianity and like you know, doesn't know things

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Speaker 1: about her own body that then cause real world harm

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Speaker 1: to her because of that kind of protection. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, whoa like that actually is like something that

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Speaker 1: uniquely hits home and hasn't like a an ever present

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Speaker 1: relevant to it. But I totally agree with you, it's

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense in the two thousand's. Yeah. Also,

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Speaker 1: all the girls in the movie look like Paxson models

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Speaker 1: really weird. M Chloe Grace Moretza's hair extensions are I mean,

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Speaker 1: are like a horror movie unto themselves. What about Julianne

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Speaker 1: Moore's hair extensions, I mean Julianne Moore's it's not hair always.

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Speaker 1: It's not that it's not actually a hair extension problem

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Speaker 1: with her, It's just that her her hair is still

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Speaker 1: like kind of even though it's like looks very dry

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Speaker 1: and kind of unkempt, it's still like a gorgeous red color.

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Speaker 1: And I don't believe that Margaret White would like you do,

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Speaker 1: but like fall prey to the sin of vanity coloring

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Speaker 1: her hair and because because she's a redhead. They kind

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Speaker 1: of tried to do like a strawberry blonde thing with

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Speaker 1: Chloe Grace Moretts and it just it just looks like

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Speaker 1: someone forgot to put toner on her after she got

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Speaker 1: her roots touched up. And also thought it was really funny.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's always a scene in a supernatural movie

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Speaker 1: where the character goes to the library to like research whatever.

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Speaker 1: That happens in a lot of Stephen King And there's

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Speaker 1: there's a point where carries reading a book that's just

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Speaker 1: called telekinesis and like, I don't think that book exists. Stupid,

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Speaker 1: that's so dumb. I forgot about that. And um also

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Speaker 1: Ansel L. Gore is in this movie, which you know,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, but he does die. Um. But Judy

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Speaker 1: Greer is in the movie, which I was very happy about.

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Speaker 1: But then also she dies. Happy about Judy Greer in

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Speaker 1: literally any movie at any time. Um. But Carrie, like again,

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Speaker 1: you know, cannot be overstated how much, um I think

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Speaker 1: culture is is owed to it, how much I am

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Speaker 1: owed to it? Um. And you know it kind of

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Speaker 1: set a lot of things that um, I mean, uh,

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Speaker 1: And Stephen King owes his whole career to it, and

427
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: It's set in motion a lot of things that he

428
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: would revisit, like fire Starter, which um he wrote after this,

429
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: which has also been adapted into various films. UM fire Starter,

430
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: fire Starters another novel about a girl with special powers.

431
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: It's about this girl whose um parents were UM part

432
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: of these trials of experimental UM hallucinogenic drugs in the

433
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: seventies that gave them like low grade psychic powers. And

434
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: they have a child who has this like insane pyrokinetic

435
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: power where she can create fires with her mind, and

436
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: a government agency wants her. It was made into a

437
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: movie with Drew Barrymore. It's one of her like first

438
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: big films. I think it was pre Et or maybe

439
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: post Et, I don't know. Um. There was a recent

440
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: remake of it too. Was Zac Efron as the Dad

441
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: character I would watch unfortunately, UM, but was it his

442
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: new or old face? Sorry? Dad, it was his old face.

443
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: I miss his old face old face too. But UM.

444
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, adolescence is something that Stephen King would return

445
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: to again and again. UM like an it which we um.

446
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: I've read the book, I've seen the contemporary remakes. I've

447
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: never seen the miniseries UM starring Tim Curry Um. The

448
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: book was published in six The TV movie, which was

449
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: a two part um movie, came out in and then

450
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: the modern remakes came out in seventeen and twenty nineteen,

451
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: so we watched it part one together recently. It was

452
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: a lovely experience, to be honest. Um, my kind of

453
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: childhood association with it on slee is like associated with

454
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: a fear of clowns that I think permeated like the

455
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: nineties was all across like Halloween costumes, Like was absolutely

456
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: like um in like goose Bumps or like in other

457
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of scary things that I had growing up, And

458
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: I just like, I was like, I don't know, I

459
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: I feel like, uh, well, here's my question. Were clowns

460
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: scary before it? I bet you anything. I'm sure that

461
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: maybe there maybe was like a conversation in the culture

462
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: about how clowns are creepy, But there's no way that

463
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: they would to this scale be immediately associated with horror,

464
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: because I think now clowns are immediately associated with horror

465
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: because of Suman King and and you know in the book,

466
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: the way that it's explained why it the entity takes

467
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: the form of Pennywise is because children love clowns. It's

468
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: a way for him to lure them to him so

469
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: he can scare them and eat them, right. And that

470
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: is to say, like I think at the time that

471
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: this novel came out there we didn't have culturally the

472
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: immediate connotation of clowns being scary. And I do think

473
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: that it is the red print. Yeah it isnt the print. Yeah,

474
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: I I um I for for those of you that

475
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: don't know, uh, the book itself is like bible length,

476
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a thick, thick book um. And I

477
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: feel like I know a lot of people that are like,

478
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: oh my god, it is my favorite book ever, I

479
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: love that book or whatever. Like I think it's despite

480
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: being so long, I'm always surprised by how much of

481
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: a sensation it like still is. But when I sat

482
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: down to watch part one with you, I had no

483
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: idea that there was this like kind of epic um

484
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: lifelong story inside of it. Um for the Virgins, there's

485
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: a group of kids that you know, start to encounter

486
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: it as it's slowly killing children in the town of

487
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: dairy Um, and a lot of horrific things happen. It's

488
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: vanquished and then boom, it jumps twenty seven years and

489
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: the kids have to return to Dairy to kill the

490
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: clown again as it starts finding new victims because they

491
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: made a pact between each other as kids to come

492
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: back to the town and do so if it ever

493
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: happened again. Yeah, And what you find out is that

494
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: it is an entity that has lived in Dairy since

495
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: possibly the beginning of time, and like is an alien

496
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: from outer space that crash landed into Earth. And it's

497
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: an entity that feeds off of fear, So it visits

498
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: primarily children because I guess their fear taste better, they're

499
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: easier to scare, and it manifests as whatever they scare

500
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: them most. But it's most favorite um you know form

501
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: is Pennywise, the dancing clown played by Bill scards Guard

502
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: in the film by Tim Curry in the original TV

503
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: mini series and like as a kind of monster, Pennywise

504
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: frequently finds its victims at their emotionally lowest points, like

505
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: it finds children back Nastian broke, like gay bashed, or

506
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, like uh, just finding victims when they feel

507
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: already like outsiders, like playing back to this like outsider

508
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: thing that keeps going in and out of Stephen King's work. Um,

509
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: but I'm curious actually to know from you, uh why

510
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: this like kind of reboot worked for you, because you

511
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: know you're kind of staunchly against reboots. You and I

512
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: have not seen, um, the Tim Currery one, so you know,

513
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: virgins out there. We're virgins to the Tim Curry mini series,

514
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: so we would love to know, like why it's so great.

515
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: I would imagine it's just like Tim Curry that makes

516
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: it great. But I wh when I was googling, like

517
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: trying to find like images of like him as it

518
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: or whatever, I had a really hard time visualizing how

519
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: this series would work in the eighties, how the practical

520
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: effects would work, all this different stuff. Because Bill's Scars

521
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: cared so fucking good he is. I have watched some

522
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: clips on YouTube of some of Pennywise scenes, and I

523
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: think the way Tim Curry plays it is much more.

524
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: He goes there is a very um dramatic shift from

525
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: when he's doing Pennywise, just this sort of like Wise

526
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: crack in clown too, the monster who eats children, and

527
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: with Bill Scars guard, I think it's I'm not gonna

528
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: say it's one note because it's not at all, but

529
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: it's he's always he's always menacing, He's always a monster,

530
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: no creepy, no camp. I would say there's still a

531
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: little camp because it's a clown, but I think it's um,

532
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: it's he's always sinister and and Tim Curry while still sinister,

533
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: like you still could there's there's I think there's a

534
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: little more humor there, um than with than with Tim sinister.

535
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: Camp is like in every Tim Curry role I can

536
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: think of, I actually feel like him. Curry is unable

537
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: to not seem either sinister and or camp like it

538
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: really is in every single I'm literally cataloging in my hat.

539
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. You know, I've never seen Clue.

540
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: I really want to watch it. All the virgins are

541
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: at home screaming. I'm not like I'm not like a

542
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: Clue die hard like I've seen a billion times, but like,

543
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: I know that people have that relationship to this movie.

544
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: We have to someone needs to If we have somebody

545
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: out there that like wants to come in and like,

546
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: uh pop our cherries on Clue. I've only seen it once,

547
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: we should do it. Um, you know, maybe like for

548
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: around the Holidays might be a good one. Okay, so

549
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: why did the reboot work? We were what why else

550
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: did you like the real I think it's I thought

551
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: it was gorgeous. I thought it was like prestiguous. Yeah,

552
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 1: it's very scary. Child actors are amazing, yes, um. And

553
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: also it started this Stranger Things level craze of people

554
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: being obsessed with these child actors, probably partially because this

555
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: came out at the same time of like peak Stranger

556
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: Things maybe, And um, that little kid is in both

557
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: of them, and the girl the main girl is also

558
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: from a Netflix thriller franchise. I'm not okay with this,

559
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: which is so good. Yeah, Like, my sisters were obsessed

560
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: with this movie. My sisters are about to turn twenty,

561
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: so they were like peak you know, teen like audience

562
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: for this movie when it came out, and they even

563
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: went to a meet and greet that had. It was

564
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: like a mall meet and greet like what they used

565
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: to do for boy bands, and you could meet actors

566
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: from Stranger Things and it The Stranger Things kids are

567
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: so internationally famous, like so mind blowing, the most famous

568
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: people in the world truly, Like Millie Bobby Brown is

569
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: the most famous woman in the world, the most she

570
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: we we really as a culture, Like I don't think

571
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: we even fully can grasp how famous those kids. Sorry,

572
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of wild to me. Um, but I

573
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: thought this movie was amazing. I think I was really

574
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: when we were watching it together, I just remember turning

575
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: to you and being like, this is like a genuinely

576
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: compelling story, like uh, And it's hard for me to

577
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: feel that in a lot in a lot of like

578
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: the horror genre. I didn't feel that way about part two,

579
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: which we'll get to. But the scares are so well done.

580
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: The effects are really good. Effects are really good. Um,

581
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: Bill scars Guard can do so much with just a look.

582
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen him do the smile out of makeup?

583
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: It's he does it on a late night talk show.

584
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: It's really fun. I need to watch that, I think. Um.

585
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: The scariest, not well, like, the biggest jump scare of

586
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: the first movie for me is the scene where they're

587
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: watching the projector and then between one frame and the

588
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: other you see like the woman turning into him, and

589
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: then between one frame and the other he comes out.

590
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: But even just like the little moments of him, like

591
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: he's like standing with Billy's ripped off arm, and like

592
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: a waving with it, or when he has the blue

593
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: and it like comes out of his face. It's just

594
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: it's oh and we I mean remember the Pennywise mania

595
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: there was when this movie came out. Every fucking beauty

596
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: YouTuber Pennywise did a Pennywise tutorial for Halloween that year,

597
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: Stephen King was paying Nick's cosmetics lifell they were they

598
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: had it down something else that this movie kind of um,

599
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: something that's this movie maybe unknowingly uh taps on that.

600
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you noticed was I immediately started thinking

601
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: of balloon fetishists. Do you know that a thing? Oh

602
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: my god, girl, I'm actually sure. Is it people who

603
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: would like to sit on balloons and and pop them? Yes?

604
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: If you don't know, there's like there's a huge kind

605
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: of subb cultural fetish about people that are really really

606
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: turned on by the popping or anticipation of popping balloons

607
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: and find that scary. It is scary. That's the thing.

608
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: Is Like, I'm curious if it was if there's anybody

609
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: on set who knew about this, because there are a

610
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: few moments. I know there's one, there's like one or

611
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: two in part two. Um, but I think there's something

612
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: in the first part movie as well, where like there

613
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 1: are several kind of there's tension built around a balloon

614
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: that's gonna pop, you know what I mean. And I

615
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: thought that that was again just kind of the thing

616
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, that sublime eerienus, that kind of

617
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: like unnamable antition, anticipation of something that the tension is

618
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: so thick in these movies, but particularly the first movie,

619
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: and also there's so many easter eggs that you don't

620
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: see of because it has control of the town of

621
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: of Dairy, and a lot of scenes there's usually someone

622
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: in the background who's watching one of the child characters,

623
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: and you know, there's lots of YouTube compilations of all

624
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: these moments that you missed in they're really eerie, and

625
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: it's just it's I think it's just very good filmmaking,

626
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: um and acting and like all of the all of

627
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: the parts came together in the right way, which unfortunately

628
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: can't be said for the second movie. I yeah, the

629
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: second movie, I um, I honestly didn't even finish because

630
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: in the first like twenty minutes or so, I just

631
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: felt like there were so many scenes in a row

632
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: where I was like this feels really Um, it was

633
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: giving me stars. It was it was giving me like

634
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: unearned like stars with this yes, sorry sorry stars with

635
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: the Z stars net clarify. Yeah, yeah, sorry sorry sorry.

636
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: It was giving like soapy, unearned melodramatic moments. I'm thinking

637
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: specifically of, um, Jessica Chassan, which, how the funk was

638
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: Jessica chestingon in this movie is so baffling to me

639
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: because she's literally because she's a redhead. Like people they

640
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: were like, who's the redhead actress that we know? You know,

641
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: it was either her, I mean them, and I'm sure

642
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: Amy Adams was like I'm good love and yeah Amy

643
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: would have chewed though. Um. But Jessica Chastian has this

644
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: scene where, um, first of all, in the in the

645
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: part one of the movie, you've spent a lot of,

646
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: in my opinion, gratuitous scenes with this like pedophile father. Right,

647
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: this character has a dad, Yes name, great name, Beverly

648
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: has a dad that's a pedophile. There's a lot of

649
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: really hard to watch scenes wherein he's like just she's

650
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: a captive in her own home. It's really like yes,

651
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things that I think Stephen

652
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: king leans into and why it finds her as a

653
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: victim and finds her at the lowest moments so frequently.

654
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: Do you know why? I mean Part two was like

655
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: critically like not you know, loved, like people didn't like

656
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: it at all? Why didn't people like it? Like? Do

657
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: you know? I think a lot of it is just

658
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: because the adult story is not as interesting as the

659
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: child story. Um. You know, the way the novel plays

660
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: out is that, um, the two are kind of intermingled.

661
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 1: I mean it is separated into the older and younger,

662
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: but they do kind of interact with each other a

663
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: bit more. And I you know, like it. When you

664
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: think of it, you don't think of the adult parts

665
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: of it. You think of the kids being scared by

666
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: the creepy clown. And so I think it's just, um,

667
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: not enough story. Um. In the back half of the

668
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: book is stretched out over a lot of movie and

669
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: and it was three hours long. It's a really long.

670
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: It's not as effective. I will say, there are still

671
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: scenes that are good and Larry, I think one of

672
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: the scariest visuals is when um, James McAvoy is in

673
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: the fun house and Pennywise is behind the glass trying

674
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: to get to the kid hitting his head and his

675
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: mouth stretches open. That just that image haunts me, and

676
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: it's like incredible c g I work really good acting, like,

677
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: but that's all the movie is. It's like a collection

678
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: of moments that are kind of good, but they're not

679
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: held together by um, you know, a movie that knows

680
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: how to weave them all together in a compelling way,

681
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: which I think the first one does really effectively. And

682
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: I think in part two there was some of this

683
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: like imaxification thing that we were talking about too, Like

684
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: I felt like there were way more big swings on

685
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: the c g I level to pull off Part two,

686
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: like the big Paul Bunyan guy. Yes, the little like

687
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: create not scary, and the little creatures coming out of

688
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: the fortune cookies and stuff like that. Um. I think honestly,

689
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: part of the reason it didn't work for me was

690
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: that the anticipation of seeing it and when we don't

691
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: see it um, which by the way, I love that

692
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: it's pronouns are it um, which maybe Stephen King invented

693
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: it it pronounced um. I feel I felt like, because

694
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: we've already seen it, it was a lot less scary

695
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: In part two, I also feel like, um, there was

696
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: something totally off about Bill Hayter, who had really great

697
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: jokes and like I really was probably my favorite part

698
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: of the movie, but felt like a different movie, you

699
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like his jokes were like just

700
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: um something that I added levity and we're definitely true

701
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: to part one. But I was just like, I feel,

702
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's like in this like cinematic universe.

703
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: I think like the Wise cracking, you know, class clown

704
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: figure again works and another trope maybe that Stephen King,

705
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: you know, laid the foreground, because we see that trope

706
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: in a lot of different things today. But queer legend,

707
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: careeer legend right, Bill Hayter spoiler alert Bill Hayter's character

708
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: and of being closeted gay man, Why does Bill Hayter

709
00:42:44,120 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: keep playing gay? Well, let's talk about The Shy Name,

710
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: which is maybe in my top five movies. You say

711
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: it's one of the greatest movies ever created. I would

712
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: say that and like with absolutely no hyperbole I I

713
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: and I would completely validate that. I thought it was

714
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: an amazing So the novel was written in nineteen seventy seven,

715
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: making it, you know, one of Stephen King's earlier novels.

716
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: I think it's UM one of his most personal novels. UM.

717
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: The film version, directed by Stanley Kubrick, starring Jack Nicholson

718
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: and Shelley Duval. Um came out in eighties, so pretty

719
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: quick turnaround there. Um the film is I think like

720
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: universally considered one of the greatest films ever made. It's

721
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: definitely one of the best horror movies, if not the

722
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: best horror movie ever made. UM one of the defining

723
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: films of Jack Nicholson's career. I think probably and Shells

724
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: and Shelly's probably the thing that is associated with Stephen

725
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: King more than anything. I do think that three, the

726
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: three things we're talking about today are probably Stephen King's

727
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: most famous novels, UM and the ones that that people

728
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: think of first when they think about him. UM. And

729
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: I think because The Shining Is is so personal to

730
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: to him, and there's so much more of him in

731
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: it than than the other two things we've talked about,

732
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: Maybe that's partially why can you describe that? Because Stephen

733
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 1: King does, I think, routinely put himself or a shell

734
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: of himself into a lot of his books that you

735
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: can spot pretty quickly. But I but I, yeah, I

736
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: did recognize that it was. He was very in the Shining.

737
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: A lot of his characters are authors. You see this

738
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: in Misery, UM, which I've still never seen or read. UM.

739
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: I think The Shining specifically is really personal to him

740
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: because UM, Jack Torrence, the main character, is an alcoholic

741
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: UM and Stephen Hang, as I mentioned at the beginning

742
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: of the episode, had a really intense struggle with alcoholism,

743
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: and I do think this is a you know, a

744
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: version of himself in which he's trying to work that

745
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: out on the page. UM. The book and the film

746
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: are very different. I think The Shining is one of

747
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: the few examples of a film adaptation transcending its source material,

748
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: because it is I didn't read the book until, like, um,

749
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: kind of crazy enough. I read the book in early

750
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 1: COVID quarantine that sounds like, which is like a bit

751
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: on the those to read a book about being stuck

752
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: somewhere until you're driven to madness and murder. Honestly, I'm

753
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: surprised I was inhabiting spaces with You at the same

754
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 1: time and survived to tell the tale. I will say,

755
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that the movie is better

756
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: than the book, because I don't think that's like an

757
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: interesting take. I would say though, that it transcends the

758
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: book just because of how iconic it has become in

759
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: terms of its visuals, which I think are more than

760
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: anything what Kubrick brought to the project, like this incredibly

761
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: artistic visual language to tell this story, um, which did

762
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: sacrifice a lot of what King thought was important about

763
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: the novel, and he has gone on record many times

764
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: saying that he's not a fan of the movie. I

765
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: did not know that the actually though, um So, Stephen

766
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: King did write a sequel to The Shining Doctor Sleep um,

767
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: and a movie version of that was made. It's I

768
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: actually love the movie. Um. You and McGregor plays the

769
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: grown up Danny Torrence the little boy, and we can

770
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 1: get into this, I think after we talked about The Shining,

771
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: But it does bridge the book and the movie versions

772
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: um to kind of combine them and fix some of

773
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: the problems and re insert a lot of what was

774
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: lost in the adaptation of the novel. And Stephen King

775
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: has said that that film has helped him appreciate the

776
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: original Shining film in a new way. Oh that's really cool.

777
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: That makes me want to watch it, honestly, now that

778
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: I've watched The Shining, So for the Virgins. The Shining

779
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: is about UM, a writer named Jack Torrence who has

780
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 1: recently been fired from his position at a private boarding school.

781
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: You find out more of this in the novel, but

782
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: it's because he like hit a kid or something and

783
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: so Stephen King, So ste what were you doing that

784
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: your your your your school that you were teaching that.

785
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: He's UM trying to find work to support his wife

786
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 1: and young child, UM, and he gets a job as

787
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 1: the winter caretaker at UM this hotel in the movie,

788
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: it's the Overlook Hotel, and essentially what that means is

789
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: he and his family will spend the winter they're just

790
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: maintaining the hotel, UM, but they're going to be totally

791
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: by themselves. UM. Kind of unbeknownst to him, his son

792
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: has the psychic ability that the cook at the hotel

793
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: tells him Um he refers to as the shining, which is,

794
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 1: you know, he can see ghosts and he UM has

795
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: this sort of like psychic ability, And it's explained to

796
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: him that UM, people shine, but sometimes places shine. In

797
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: this hotel is a place that shines, and also kind

798
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: of wants to eat his power, and so they spend

799
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: the winter in this hotel. And the hotel um kind

800
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: of as a way to get to the sun, which

801
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: is more explicit in the book than is in the movie,

802
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: uses Jack Torrens as like a vessel and it corrupts

803
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: him and drives him crazy until he is driven to

804
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: try to kill his wife and son. Yeah, it's kind

805
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: of the quintessential cabin fever story, so to speak. It's

806
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: like introduced thematically right at the beginning. And um, it

807
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: must be said that American Horror Story Hotel is essentially

808
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: like a bastardization of of like what Stephen King invented here,

809
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: which I honestly didn't know until I turned on the movie,

810
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: like really like and I was like, oh, this seems familiar.

811
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: I didn't even watch American Horror Horror Story Hotel, though,

812
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: I feel like we should watch it together because I

813
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: want to see Gaga my mom. It's um, I don't

814
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: know that I can do another rewatch of it anytime soon,

815
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 1: because I have rewatched it a fewture but we'll we'll

816
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: have to do an American Horror Story episode eventually. You

817
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: Virgin really wanted us to do one. You could not

818
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: make the time for it because I can't. It's it's

819
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: a lot to consume girls, and I've only watched one season.

820
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: But I'm really interested to hear what you thought of

821
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: the movie watching it for the first time. Yeah, so

822
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: hot off of our Silence of the Lamb's discussion, which

823
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: I you know, uh didn't. I didn't love that movie

824
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: for reasons you can listen to. I kind of went

825
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: into The Shining putting this movie and something of the

826
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: same category, right, Like you thought I overhyped it. No, No,

827
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: not you. Specifically, I thought culture at large was putting

828
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: this much like Science Lamp, like The Shining, one of

829
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: the greatest movies ever created. Um, it was starring middle

830
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: aged white guy and his struggle you know what I mean,

831
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: like and I feel like um and and also just

832
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: middle aged white guy who's evil and like the woman

833
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: that is beholden to like his like villainie or whatever. Um,

834
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 1: totally not the same thing at all. Uh. And also

835
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: stylistically had so much more to say than Silence the Lamps,

836
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: which was much more procedural. Not a bad thing, but like,

837
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: much more procedural of a movie than I feel like

838
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: a Stanley cubrick vehicle, which is so imagistic, and you know,

839
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: even just the opening and they're driving up the mountains

840
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: and all those overhead shots with the score in the background.

841
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: I was kind of entranced by cubricks very exacting process

842
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: and the kind of very specific and creative directorial things

843
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: that I think I'm really you know, attracted to. Usually,

844
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: like all the girls know that, I am a kind

845
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: of style over substance person. Sometimes this movie brings both, um,

846
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 1: but it but it is it does lean more heavily

847
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: on style. It is so stylistic, and obviously, you know,

848
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: you can't have a conversation about the Shining without talking

849
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: about Shelley Duval and her like experience of making this film,

850
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: um and how it was a really grueling weeks and

851
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks long process that was much longer maybe

852
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: than your average kind of film might be, and she

853
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: was terrorized by Stanley Cooper. Yes, and there are like, um,

854
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: you know, this this movie hat holds the Guinness World

855
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: Book of Records for like most takes of a scene

856
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: with dialogue in it or something like that. There's the

857
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: scene between the kid and um, the guy that kind

858
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: of explains what the shine is and what the title is. Um.

859
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: They apparently shot that like a hundred and fifty eight

860
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: times or something. But the staircase scene, which is maybe

861
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: my favorite scene in the movie, where in Jack Nicholson

862
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: is kind of experiencing this psychotic rather his psychotic break,

863
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: is really crystallizing, like Shelly Val exactly something that is

864
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: said a lot um in the novel. It's like this

865
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: recurring thing like mask off, but it's when he reveals

866
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: to Shelly Duval that like he's after her. Yes, she

867
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: is now explicitly aware that, like the jig is up

868
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: and it's all happening on this staircase as he's kind

869
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: of ascending like slowly, like creepily talking to her, and

870
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: she's holding a bat and being like, get the funk

871
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: away from me, Like, but she's talking to her husband,

872
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, She's like, I don't know who you are

873
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: anymore and what's going on. They apparently shot that hundred

874
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: and twenties seven times. And if you haven't read the

875
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood Insane and if you haven't read the Hollywood Reporter

876
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,439
Speaker 1: profile on Shelly Duval um, I strongly recommend it. It's

877
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: so good. It's about like her her um life as

878
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: a recluse after you know, losing a relationship with Hollywood.

879
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: She pretty much has your ideal life Rose Like she's

880
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: like living in like podunc nowhere, Texas, like you know,

881
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: with her like truck and like all of her things,

882
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: like just sitting around and like enjoying life and enjoying

883
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: like her her own company and like just like being isolated.

884
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 1: And the profile writer UM talks to her about Stanley

885
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: Cubeck's process and how grueling it all was, and they

886
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: talked about the staircase scene, UM and how it was

887
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: shot on twenty seven times, and Shelley Duval says something

888
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: to the effective like, I actually haven't watched the movie

889
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: in a really long time. I would actually like to

890
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: revisit it, which is shocking to me. And then because

891
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: it is, you know, the thing that she's the most

892
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: known for, even though she you know, she also like

893
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: is known to a generation of children because of her

894
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 1: fairy tale show Yes, and also as olive Oil. Um

895
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: in Popeye is olive oil. And she had um like

896
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: several other you know, notable roles before the Shining, but

897
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: the is what cemented her in pop culture. Um, you know,

898
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: her image I think, and her her voice and her

899
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: manner right, And so when she said to the writer

900
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: of this profile, like, I would love to rewatch it,

901
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: the writer pulls out their phone and they watched the

902
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: staircase scene together and Shelley Duval just starts crying and

903
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: the writers like what's going on, and She's like, that

904
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: took three weeks to shoot. We shot this one scene

905
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: for three weeks, and it is a emotionally traumatizing scene.

906
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: It's an emutually traumatizing movie, which is part of what

907
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: the profile is getting at and why Shelley Duval's unraveling

908
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: was so entwined to a process that was way too

909
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: close to the subject matter. I think that Shelley is

910
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: unfortunately an example of like why we need mental health

911
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: professionals on the sets of films that deal with traumatic

912
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: or all consuming or like method kind of like acting right, well,

913
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: because now we have things like intimacy coordinators, and we

914
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: also have, um, you know, there have been so many

915
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: stories in recent years about the dangers of people going

916
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: method and like being horrible on set. So when are

917
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: we going to have you know, like a humanity coordinators

918
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 1: to make sure that these fucking like asshole actors and directors,

919
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: because you know, right now there's a conversation happening around

920
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: David or Russell in his film Amsterdam, Oh, and how

921
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: abusive he is to his actors. You know, like it's

922
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: just is you have to think is it worth it?

923
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: And like I think a lot of people would look

924
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: at the shining and say it is worth this woman's pain.

925
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: But I can't help but wonder, like, is what ended

926
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: up in the movie? Is that from take one? Or

927
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: is it from take twenty or is it from take

928
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: a D seven? Like we'll never know. And it's like

929
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: with the staircase scene as an example, It's like, is

930
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: the deterioration I'm watching on screen acting or is this

931
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: shot a hundred and twenty six? And like Shelley's really deteriorating?

932
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: Like it is? It is? It was hard? It was.

933
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it was hard to watch. I thought

934
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 1: she's so compelling and and her performance is cannon forever,

935
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Jack Nicholson on the flip side,

936
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: I patently don't like Jack Nicholson. That's something I'm copying to.

937
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: I don't like watching him in movies. Uh, he's not

938
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: my Tea. I don't think he's a bad actor. I

939
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 1: understand if you like Jack Nicholson, that's fine, by that's

940
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: like fine for you. He's not my girl, um I,

941
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: I you know, probably has something to do with the

942
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: fact that, like I've never forgiven him for wooing Diane

943
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: Keaton and something's got to give when she could have

944
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: been with Keana Reeves. Um. But at the same time,

945
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: I also have never forgiven Diane Keaton for being a

946
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: Woody Allen apologize. Yeah, I feel like that's fine, But um,

947
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson in this movie was the first time I've

948
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: watched a Jack Nicholson movie where I was like, I

949
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: love that, and I loved him in it. He's incredible.

950
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

951
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: He's such a good is so fucking good. And you know, um,

952
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: I thinking about this, you know, like I'm writing a

953
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: book right now, and so much of what this book

954
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: is about is writer's block. And like, again, this goes

955
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: back to Stephen King putting himself in his work, like

956
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: this author who's struggling, who can't write anything. Um it,

957
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: you know, hits a little close to home. I do

958
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: want to tell you a little bit about Dr Sleep

959
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: the sequel and sort So I think something to understand

960
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: is that in the book, the way The Shining ends

961
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: is not with you know, Jack Nicholson um being defeated

962
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: and them just abandoning the hotel. Um. What happens is

963
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: that Jack kind of breaks through the hold the hotel

964
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: has on him and goes down to the boiler, which

965
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: has been referenced several times throughout the novel, and sets

966
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: it to explode so that the hotel burns down and

967
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: so that Danny and Wendy can escape. So does so

968
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: he dies, He sacrifices himself and to save them, And

969
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: so Dr Sleep is about the grown up Danny Torrence

970
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: who who um you know, Wendy dies early in his

971
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: life and he spends his life numbing his psychic powers

972
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: through alcohol just the same way his father did you know,

973
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: And um he establishes this psychic connection with a young

974
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: girl who has the same kind of you know, shining

975
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: abilities that he does, only much more powerful. She becomes

976
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: the target of this group of sort of psychic vampires

977
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: um who are called the True Not and their leader

978
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: is this woman named Rosie the Hat. She's played by

979
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: Rebecca Ferguson who she's um, she's Lady Jessica and Dune

980
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: she'ss mom, Thank you so much. She's so good in

981
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: the movie. So they're, you know, they're hunting this girl down.

982
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: Eventually Danny um links up with her and um, you know,

983
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: they kind of they kill a lot of her companions,

984
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: but then it's kind of just her left against them

985
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: and they in the book, they kind of they bring

986
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: her back to the site of where the hotel used

987
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: to stand, because it's like this powerful place in the

988
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: movie what they do because in the original Shining film

989
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: the hotel was never burned down. They go back to

990
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: the hotel and the film ends in the way that

991
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: the original Shining film does, where Danny, rather than his father,

992
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: is the one who sacrifices himself and causes the hotel

993
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: to explain, My god, that's so cool, Like as a filmmaker,

994
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: that's such a smart thing to do. And it does

995
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: really toying with both like iterations of the in an

996
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: intellectual property and somehow making both true. Yeah, because it

997
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: equally draws from both Stephen King's novels and the you know,

998
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: the visual landscape that Stanley Kubrick created and melds them

999
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: together in this really beautiful way. And I think that's

1000
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: why Stephen King has said that this movie has really

1001
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: helped him appreciate the original film in a way he

1002
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: was never able to before. And it's such a good movie.

1003
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: I definitely recommend anyone. If you like The Shining, if

1004
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: you like Stephen King, definitely give it a watch. Rebecca

1005
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: Ferguson is such a good villain. Um, you know, I

1006
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: ride for you and McGregor to talk about honestly, Stephen

1007
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: King adaptations more generally, and this very thing that you're

1008
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: getting at about, like being true to the source material.

1009
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: Just on a personal level, I feel like I will

1010
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: always appreciate a Stanley Kubrick kind of reimagining of the

1011
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: source material that discards some of it for this sake

1012
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: of cinema, as opposed to something like honestly it. I

1013
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: feel like it Chapter two suffered from trying too hard

1014
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: to be true to the book, because I was when

1015
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: I was watching it, googling to see if these scenes

1016
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: had happened in the book, and nine times out of

1017
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: ten it was actually in the book, and I was, like,

1018
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: to be honest, I wish I wish it wasn't in

1019
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: the movie, like I felt like it was uncompelling for

1020
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: whatever reason. And I think that there is something that

1021
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: um is really lost when you are too attached to

1022
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: the subject matter and don't understand the importance of your

1023
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: own medium and how it can transform things absolutely. And

1024
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: that is something that is inextricably tied to Stephen King,

1025
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: because I think the way that we judge a lot

1026
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: of his work will be either by how true it

1027
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: is to the source material or how far away it is.

1028
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: And I think the best balance with Stephen King and

1029
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: probably any adaptation is how you're able to blend those

1030
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: things in the best way UM. And I think things

1031
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: like It Part One, like Doctor Sleep and like The

1032
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: Shining are ways in which you know filmmakers have gotten

1033
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: it right, and like keeping what works, discarding what doesn't,

1034
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: and inventing what will bring it all together. I just

1035
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: remembered something that you and I need to discuss in

1036
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: terms of this like book to movie source material thing

1037
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: and the thing that has been left out out of

1038
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: every iteration of it adaptation, which is a scene that

1039
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: happens at the end of the Children when all the

1040
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: children so okay, Virgins. There's six children total. I think

1041
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: it's like it's a lot of children. They're like six

1042
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: children that are kind of the main characters and moving

1043
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: action of this film. They the Losers Club, and effectively

1044
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: like part one, like the part one of the movie, right,

1045
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: they go through this whole saga there. You know, it's

1046
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: kind of like enemies to lovers to friends. Like their

1047
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: relationships I'll change because of it. And they their bonds

1048
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: are like forged a lot tighter. Some of them fall

1049
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: in love with each other, some of them, you know,

1050
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: grow to love each other or whatever. Um when it

1051
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: is vanquished, reas you told me that there's something that

1052
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: happens in the book that never occurs in the movie.

1053
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: Would you like to share with the Virgins and with

1054
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: Phoebe honestly about what happens? Yeah, So like and remember

1055
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: these are all you know, young, like preteen, they're like

1056
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: what they're like, I want to say, when they vanquish

1057
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: it for what they think is forever, but like honestly,

1058
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: kind of in their minds, no isn't. Um. They're kind

1059
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: of in this like fugue state, and the novel dives

1060
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: into this more. It's like they do this thing, this

1061
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: like ritual thing, um, a blood ritual. Yeah, but like

1062
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: it's the way that they defeat it is like because

1063
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: they're more powerful together, and in the book, as a

1064
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: way to like seal that power, all of the boys

1065
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: have sex with Beverly Um in the Sewers and it's

1066
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: not it's like pretty much an orgy. Like it's not

1067
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's not an orgy. It's like a consensual

1068
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: gang bang. Like yeah, but I guess it happens in

1069
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: this way that's sort of like dreamlike kind of and

1070
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 1: like in I think this is also kind of It's

1071
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: been a while since I've seen part two, but I

1072
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: do believe that as they grew up, they forget a

1073
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,439
Speaker 1: lot of what happened in the first movie, and it's

1074
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: only they've oppressed it. Well, I think it's part of

1075
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: like the magic of it, and it's only once they

1076
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: kind of go back to dairy that they start remembering things. Um.

1077
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, a like thirteen year old gang

1078
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: bang is not really something that we need to see

1079
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: adapted into a film. And I'm glad that that was cut.

1080
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: It's so whack a doodle, I mean, honestly, so I

1081
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: haven't read his books. But I can imagine Eugen why

1082
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: it happened, Like it's just something that's disturbing, and Stephen

1083
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: King is good at like disturbing images and motifs, and

1084
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: he knew what he was writing was disturbing. But like

1085
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 1: when he's been asked, I've like, you know, googled, and

1086
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: like when he's been asked about it um nowadays and

1087
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: why you know, he thinks that hasn't been included and

1088
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: you have the movies. He is shocky ly unfazed. But

1089
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: he's like he's like, oh, yeah, you know, it's interesting

1090
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 1: because people are, you know, much more sensitive around content

1091
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: like that these days. And I was like, no, no, no,

1092
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: I think we were still pretty sensitive about it when

1093
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: this book came out. Like I don't think anything has changed,

1094
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: Like I don't think he he's I think honestly. And

1095
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: this might be a little bit of a bridge to

1096
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: discussion about Stephen King just as a figure. But Stephen

1097
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: King's subject matter is sometimes a little out of touch,

1098
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: and I think that you could see that in it

1099
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: part two with like the quote unquote Native American rune

1100
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: book or whatever. Well that's something he does a lot

1101
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: um a lot of his books feature even the shining

1102
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: you learn about the hotel that it was built on

1103
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: an indigenous burial ground. It's something that is in pet

1104
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: cemetery as well. We won't get too into pet cemetery,

1105
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: which is I do love pet cemetery, both the book

1106
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: and the movie, but you haven't seen it, so we're

1107
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 1: not going to get into it. Um. But yeah, it's

1108
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: it's a recurring thing that he does, and it's just

1109
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: like it's so of the time that he was really popular,

1110
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: but that's not an excuse for it. No. Yeah, And

1111
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: I honestly think, um, Stephen King is not alone and

1112
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: that like I think a lot of horror movies exploit

1113
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: UM without any sort of like researcher connection to indigenous communities,

1114
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: the mysticism of you know, Native American lore, and how

1115
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: they create a very generic, watered down version of it,

1116
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: a very white version of it. Right. That also you

1117
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: know happens with like Stephen King's relationship to UM, like

1118
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: people with disabilities, like able is UM comes up in

1119
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: a lot of horror films, not just even Kings, but like, yes,

1120
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: he's like Stephen King is guilty of that all the time.

1121
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: Another another kind of horrifying part in pet Cemetery is

1122
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: the wife has this um sister who was like very

1123
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: ill or she she had I think, like really bad

1124
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: scoliosis when she was a kid. Her name was Zelda,

1125
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: and she's like one of the most horrifying things I've

1126
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: ever seen on film. And it's like, it's not it's

1127
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: not great. Oh really, So wait, you didn't like you

1128
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: didn't love the movie. No, I do love the movie.

1129
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: But Stephen King, you know, he is not perfect. He's

1130
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: an old white man. He's literally white man. I mean

1131
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: he did he did say he did um ride for

1132
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: trans people in the face of j K. Rowling, but

1133
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: also but he also kind of like it wasn't in

1134
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: the best way. But he said the tweet was he said, um,

1135
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: my opinion is that Joe Rowling is wrong about trans women.

1136
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 1: Leave shitney and hateful out of it. Please, So he's

1137
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: saying like, I don't agree with her, but she's not

1138
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: a bad person. Oh interesting. You know there are some

1139
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: things about like I I'm actually shook. I thought that

1140
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: he would have kind of a worse take because he

1141
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: seems like one of those people that would be like

1142
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 1: canceled cold. Her sucks am I right, like, um, but

1143
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: he did have like, you know, alongside it, like around

1144
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: the same time. I want to say this like weird

1145
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: tweet about like diversity and like the Oscar's race and

1146
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: how like, um, like diversity and like quality of a

1147
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 1: film or TV show is they're like mutually exclusive and

1148
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: like how like diversity doesn't improve quality and vice versa.

1149
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: And it's like that's like just categorically like not true.

1150
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: And of course, like a white man like would say that,

1151
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: I like, I feel like I understand what he's trying

1152
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: to say. Like if I if I try to be

1153
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, a white woman whisperer, which I am often

1154
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: uh whisper to me, I do know how to do it.

1155
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: I think I can see why an old white man

1156
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: would be like, it's not fair to the material to

1157
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: like to organize it. Like I think a lot of

1158
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: people from this generation are latching onto this idea of

1159
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: tokenization and how it's bad without understanding that there is

1160
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: a vast difference between tokenization and just a story from

1161
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: a person that is marginalized, you know what I mean. Um,

1162
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I wasn't surprised by it. I

1163
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: think it's funny. Um. I remember like when this like

1164
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: tweet storm came up, and he's like again making like

1165
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: quality and diversity like mutually exclusive and like you know

1166
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: you can develf like you really can do both and

1167
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: it costs you nothing. Um. Also, I mean, let let

1168
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,799
Speaker 1: it be said for this man has written sixty four books.

1169
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: Not all of them are good. No, some of them

1170
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:46,640
Speaker 1: I have. I used to be much more kind of

1171
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: hardline about I always finished books. Now I will in them,

1172
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: you know modern parlance of book talk. I will DNF

1173
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: a book if it's not working for me, do not

1174
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: finish DNF. Is that like a fan fiction term or something.

1175
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: It's like people who were reviewing books, so like I

1176
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: d n F to this because it was bad or

1177
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: like whatever. But when I was a teenager, the only

1178
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: book that I ever stopped in the middle of with

1179
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 1: was the Stephen King book called Dream Catcher, which was

1180
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: I think about people, which I think was about people

1181
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 1: who were like um uh, like aliens took over their

1182
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: bodies and then they like farted them out. What. Yeah,

1183
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: I would watch that. It was just and I do

1184
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,600
Speaker 1: think it was adopted into a movie. Um, since we

1185
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 1: are like a virgin can we also just have like

1186
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: a quick reaction to the gay bashing scene at the

1187
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: beginning of it part two, because when you and I

1188
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: were working at Out magazine, I remember seeing the takes,

1189
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: did you It was mine. I had a viral article

1190
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: that I wrote. Wait, let me let me google penny

1191
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: Wise Rose Dambis. I can get the title right, Unwise, Okay, yeah,

1192
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: the article. The article is called Pennywise is surprisingly anti

1193
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: queer in chapter two, which is but I wrote it

1194
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: as like as a troll. Well as the virgins need

1195
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: to know that, that's do you do they do the

1196
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: virgin to understand why that's a troll the very specific

1197
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 1: era of the internet, yes, because like this is the

1198
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: era of the Baba Duke and like people making the

1199
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: Baba Duke gay and so like a lot of what

1200
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: was happening on tumbler and stuff was like the Baba

1201
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: Duke and Pennywise are like boyfriends, blah blah blah. And

1202
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 1: so I wrote this article being like literally the like

1203
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: the deck of this story is the killer clown. Isn't

1204
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 1: the ally We thought he was right? But the end

1205
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: the headline is a dig at an era of queer

1206
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: media as well. It must be said, we're in into

1207
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: more grinders, like media brand was you forgot about that?

1208
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: There was this headline from Into which amazing journalists into

1209
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: a phenomenal media brand, like really made compelling stories? Had

1210
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 1: you know a lapsed moment of judgment where in there

1211
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: was a headline um that was like Ariana Grande's album

1212
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: whatever is like surprisingly antiqueer was like just it. We

1213
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: were all writing stupid headlines in in this day and age.

1214
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: I don't fault it for that, but it wasn't meme forever,

1215
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: Like we were tweeting things about things being surprisingly antiar

1216
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: and this Pennywise moment was an homage. And let me

1217
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: tell you, writing this article has haunted me because, like

1218
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: a couple of other things I've written that went viral,

1219
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: it will like in the years past, every couple of

1220
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: months it would go viral again and I would get

1221
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: people commenting on my pin tweet on Twitter being like,

1222
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: how could you think that a killer clown would not

1223
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: be homophobic? Like just it would be either people from

1224
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: the right wing being like, you know, saying something about

1225
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 1: how he should be homophobic, and people liberal people being like,

1226
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: you stupid bitch, He's like a murderer. Blah blah blah.

1227
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 1: Even just looking at this article, so many comments on it.

1228
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,599
Speaker 1: It's like the anti queer thing. People just didn't get it.

1229
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: It was, didn't get it out of its time. Next

1230
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: week we'll be back with another bonus episode on a

1231
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,560
Speaker 1: specific piece of media that is TVD, so it'll be

1232
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: a nice little surprise for you. But for our regular

1233
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 1: episode next week, we will be sinking our teeth into

1234
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: all things vampires. So prepare your blood sacrifices, get out

1235
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: your your garlic and your iron steaks. Well, no, we

1236
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 1: don't want that, because we want the vampires. We want that.

1237
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: We want to You've gotta you gotta stretch that neck

1238
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: out so they can sink their teeth. Maybe vampires have

1239
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 1: like a garlic kink. Maybe they like how much it hurts.

1240
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's part of the four play

1241
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: could be anyway. Um in the meantime finals on Instagram

1242
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: at like a vergine, tell us what's your favorite Stephen

1243
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 1: King book or adaptation? Do you hate Stephen King? Do

1244
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: you think he's a flop? Are you more of a carry?

1245
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: Are you more of a Wendy? Um? And as always,

1246
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: you know you can slide into our d m s

1247
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: and tell us what you think of the show, what

1248
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,600
Speaker 1: you think we should cover next. Also, please leave a

1249
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us out so much. Also,

1250
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: um rate the podcast on Spotify, but only if it's

1251
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: five stars of course. Um I'm your co host, Rose

1252
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 1: Damn You. You can find me anywhere online at Rose

1253
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 1: Damn You, and I'm fran Toata. You can find me

1254
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: at France, Squish Coo, anywhere you want subscribe to. Like

1255
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 1: a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Like a Virgin

1256
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: is an i Heeart radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter,

1257
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chich

1258
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: and Nikki Eatur. Until next week, See you later, nobody watch.

1259
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: She'll play with me. M m hmm