1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: The Nutcracker is the gateway to ballet for a lot 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: of people, and that's what it was for LaToya Princess Jackson. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Princess was in college. She went to see a company 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: called Bilethnik, a professional ballet company. They were putting on 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: their annual production of The Nutcracker, but it looked different 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: than most Nutcrackers. 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: You see. 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 3: I'm in the audience and the snow scene comes up, 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: and all of these beautiful black ballerinas are dancing and 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 3: the snow is falling on the stage, and it just 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: looks so beautiful. I'll never forget the experience. I had 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 3: never seen black ballerinas before, and so in my mind, 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, like, have these people always existed? And if so, 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 3: why didn't I know about this? Because I would have 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: loved to have done something like this early on in 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 3: my life. 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: She had tried ballet back when she was a teenager, 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: but after one class she was discouraged. At fourteen, she 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: already felt behind and she was the only black kid 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: in the class. This is not for me, she thought. 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: But after this performance, Princess approached the directors. She asked 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: how to pursue ballet for real and. 23 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: He's like, if you are serious about it, and you 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: can put your ego aside and take classes with six 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 3: and seven year olds. So they put me in the 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: very basic ballet class with six and seven year olds, 27 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 3: and I'm literally wearing the same uniforms they're wearing, like 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 3: an adult at the bar with my same color leotard 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: that they have on. And I never thought that I 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: would be here where I am now, actually working in ballet. 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: Princess of made dance her career. She became a dancer, 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: a producer, a ballet teacher. She got her master's degree 33 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: at Harvard and Dramatic Arts, and she did some teaching 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: through the Boston Ballet. 35 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 3: Then I look at the Boston Ballet Company and I'm like, 36 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 3: there's nobody that looks like me. I'm wondering, why, what 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: is the purpose of there not being ballerinas that look 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 3: like me in major companies? Where are the black ballerinas? 39 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: What you would come to learn is there were lots 40 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: of black ballerinas, They'd always been there. But there was 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: something else too, this pattern of black dancers being pushed 42 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: out of ballet memory and pushed out of ballet even 43 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: as they're intrinsically shaping it. 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: So I feel like you can not talk about Balanchin 45 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: without talking about how his esthetic has pulled from the 46 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: black dancing body, and more specifically, how he was inspired 47 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: by dancers like Katherine Dunham and Arthur Mitchell. 48 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: For My Heart podcasts in Rococo Punch, This is the 49 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: Turning Room of Mirrors America Lants, Part eight. American Ballet 50 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: Princess started looking for black ballerinas of the past, and 51 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: one name she came across surprised her. It was a 52 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: name she already knew well, a name most dancers know, 53 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: but she'd only associated it with modern dance, not classical ballet. 54 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: The name was Katherine Dunham. Catherine Dunham led from nineteen 55 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: oh nine to two thousand and six. She's a pillar 56 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: of dance history. She's known for creating a whole new 57 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: form of dance what's called the Dunham technique. 58 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: When I first took that dun On bar class, it 59 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: was more about being connected to the ground as supposed 60 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: to be upright. There were plias, but we were bare feet. 61 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: I can understand this. I feel the movement in my body. 62 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm actually getting it. I feel like 63 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: I belong in. 64 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: This Dunham technique is a type of modern dance. She 65 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: pulled from dances from Africa and the Caribbean and Europe 66 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: and nixed them with her own ideas about movement. 67 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: I had the syncopated steps, the movement of the hips, 68 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: the isolation of the tors so the lot of movement 69 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: close to the ground. 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: Catherine Dunham performed all over with her own company and 71 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: created a school where she taught people like James Dean, 72 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: Sydney Poitier, Shirley McLain and then Princess is looking through 73 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: archives about ballet and here's Catherine Dunham, this person she's 74 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: already felt a connection to through movement. What she learned 75 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: is that before Catherine Dunham became the Catherine Dunham most 76 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: people know, she studied classical ballet and she loved it. 77 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: She really was inspired to be a ballerino. And she 78 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: talked specifically about how she wants to introduce the technique 79 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: of ballet to black dancers and have it at their 80 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 3: disposal so that they can show the genius of her race. 81 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: She says, the genius of her race, which is the 82 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: genius of our race. 83 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: In her early twenties, Catherine Dunham studied ballet in Chicago 84 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: and then she started to teach it, but that was 85 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: hard to do. Many dance studios refused to let her 86 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: have classes because she and her students were black. Her 87 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: first studio was a converted barn. In nineteen thirty, four 88 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: years before Balancing founded the School of American Ballet, Catherine 89 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: Dunham created her own ballet company. It was one of 90 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: the first black ballet companies in the United States. She 91 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: called it Ballet Negar. 92 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 3: And the company only lasted one month. I think a 93 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 3: lot of factors happened. You have to have funding, you 94 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: have to have been a factors, and there was the 95 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 3: discouragement of we don't really want black ballet dancers in 96 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 3: this space. 97 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: It seemed nearly impossible for white critics to associate black 98 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: people with classical ballet. For example, white writer Walter Terry 99 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: referenced the belief that black dancers were talented at jazz 100 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: and what was referred to as quote primitive dance, not ballet. 101 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: And even some of the reviews they would have words 102 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: like jungle or primal or the ethnic stuff that they're 103 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 3: doing is great. I love it. Keep doing that, but 104 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: stay away from the classical stuff. Take off those points, 105 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: use dance barefoot, a thing in your element. 106 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: Eventually, Catherine Dunham's ballet teacher advised her to leave ballet 107 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: and try modern dance. Hence the Catherine Dunham most people 108 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: know today. And then she worked with someone who by 109 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: now you're very familiar. 110 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: With, George Balanchin. George Balanchine and Catherine Dunham start to 111 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 3: work on Cabin in the Sky, a musical. 112 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 4: They collaborate. 113 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 3: They were in effect co choreographers. 114 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: The New York Times called Cabin in the Sky a 115 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Negro fantasy. A white writer came up with this story 116 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: that felt like folklore. The musical came out in nineteen forty. 117 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: The entire cast was black. It was written, lyricized, composed, 118 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: and directed by white people. Katherine Dunham danced in it. 119 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: They asked balancing to stage it. 120 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 4: They actually lived together during that production because they were 121 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: so broke that they had to live together. 122 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: This is Teresa Ruth Howard. She's a former ballet dancer, 123 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: a dance journalist, and she works with ballet companies around 124 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: the world on equity projects and culture change. She likes 125 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: to imagine Katherine Dunham and George balancing living together during 126 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: this time. 127 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 4: What are they talking about in the kitchen? But they're 128 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 4: probably talking about ballet, and they're also probably talking about 129 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 4: African dance and Caribbean Haitian dance. You know, great artistic 130 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 4: conversations about how do you blend the two. She's actually 131 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 4: probably choreographing Cabin in the Sky. Because he didn't know 132 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 4: anything about that type of dance, he could not have 133 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 4: choreographed it. 134 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: Valancine seemed aware that his whiteness limited his ability to 135 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: do this musical well. He said, quote, what is the 136 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: use of inventing a series of movements which are a 137 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: white man's idea of a Negro's walk or stance or slouch. 138 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: I only needed to indicate a disposition of the dancers 139 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: on the stage. The rest almost improvised itself. I was 140 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: careful to give dancers steps which they could do better 141 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: than anyone else. Maybe this communicates respect a desire to 142 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: stand out of the dancer's way, But a closer read 143 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: reveals something else. Dance scholar Brenda Dixon Gottshield writes, quote 144 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: the reason that he did not need to invent movements 145 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: apart from the creativity of the dancers themselves, was that 146 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: he had a seasoned, talented African American colleague to work with. 147 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: To state that the rest almost improvised itself is to 148 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: fall into the trap of assuming that African peoples do 149 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: not work, train, or practice in order to perform successfully, 150 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: that dancing for them is an inborn trade end quote. 151 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: And there's a hint of arrogance in what Balanchine said 152 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: to Dixon. Gotshield says that Balanchine's words reduce black dancers 153 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: to his puppets. She poses the question did Balancing give 154 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: them steps to do? Or did the dancers suggest and 155 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: show him steps from which he then chose. 156 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: Everything points back to Catherine Dunham. Her work is inspiring 157 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 3: people like George Balanchine. If you don't have that conversation, 158 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: then you erase her. 159 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: Balancing and Dunham collaborated. They choreographed together, but in the 160 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: playbill just one person was listed. 161 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: Quote. 162 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: Entire production staged by George Balancing. Cabin in the Sky 163 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: was just one example of many times Balanchine worked with 164 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: black dam answers and choreographers on Broadway. He worked with 165 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: Josephine Baker with tap dancer and choreographer Clarence Buddy Bradley 166 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: with the Nicholas Brothers, and even earlier before he came 167 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: to the US, Balancine was drawn in by what black 168 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: artists were doing in Europe. He soaked up the art 169 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: and dance and music of the African diaspora before Balancing 170 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: founded in New York City Ballet, He even talked about 171 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: having an integrated ballet company, half of the dancers black, 172 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: half of the dancers white. It was part of the 173 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: initial sales pitch that Lincoln Kirstein wrote in a letter 174 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: to a potential funder. 175 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 4: I want you to invest in this company. I've got 176 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 4: this incredibly brilliant choreographer and he has these incredible ideas 177 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 4: of having a company that is, you know, four male, 178 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 4: four females white, and four of the same negroes. Right, 179 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 4: this is the language of the time. If we stop there, 180 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 4: it sounds like, ooh, this is an incredible thing, forward 181 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 4: thinking for the time. However, if you look down in 182 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 4: the text, he says, quote, he thinks the Negro part 183 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 4: of it would be amazingly supple. The combination of suppleness 184 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 4: and this sense of time superb, So I think he 185 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,479 Speaker 4: means like the timing, like the rhythm right of these negroes, 186 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 4: and the suppleness, and then he goes on to say, 187 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 4: imagine them masked, for example. That's the part for me. 188 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 4: I was like masked, like what are what are they 189 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 4: doing masked? The idea was to train these dancers together, 190 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 4: but then these black dancers would somehow be masked on stage, 191 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: so it doesn't give me the feeling of equity and equality. 192 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 4: Of course, it never came to pass that you would 193 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 4: see this integrated company on a New York City state. 194 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: When you feel like you started learning more about Balanchine's 195 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: relationship to blackness. 196 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 4: That's an interesting question because it was not even about movement. 197 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 4: It was his famous quote about a ballerina should be 198 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 4: the color of appealed apple. And I can remember I 199 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 4: was probably around eleven when I heard that, So imagine 200 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: as a black ballet student at the time hearing that 201 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 4: that was the thought a ballerina should be the color 202 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 4: of appealed apple, and I remember thinking, well, if you 203 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 4: leave appealed apple out on the counter for a minute, 204 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 4: it turns brown anyway, So what does that mean? 205 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: Later Teresa saw Balancine's ballets like Jewels and the Four Temperaments. 206 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 4: Then you're like, oh, you know, yes, I want to 207 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 4: dance that. But it's bittersweet because it's attached to this 208 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: idea that you don't have a space in that art form. 209 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: As for him, the irony of it is is that 210 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: in the beginning, he wants to have this integrated company. 211 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 4: He wants to see black bodies and white bodies represented 212 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 4: on the same stage. And so he's lauded in a 213 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 4: way from being the pioneer of diversity in ballet, and 214 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 4: yet out of his own mouth what a ballerina should 215 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 4: look like doesn't represent that idea at all. 216 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: I've heard over and over again Balanchine's work allotted for 217 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: his speed, his timing, his pushing ballet over the edge. 218 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: But if you break those movements down, really track their 219 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: essence where they came from. They're fundamental aspects of African dance. 220 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 4: He loved black culture and blackness. It was something that 221 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 4: was useful to him. 222 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: Teresa Ruth Howard read the work of dance scholar Brenda 223 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: Dixon Gottshield, who laid out these fundamental principles of African 224 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: art and African dance characteristics of the Africanist aesthetic. There's 225 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: this youthfulness for one. 226 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 4: Strength, flexibility, speed, it's the ability to do extensions or splits, 227 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 4: flexibility in the joints. We see this in the jitterbug. 228 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 4: We see this in a lot of the African dance 229 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 4: where they syncopate the body and invert the limbs. We 230 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 4: see this in hip hop, where you wonder, how. 231 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: Do you do that? 232 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 4: How you turn your knees in and go all the 233 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 4: way down to the ground. Isolations the spine is not rigid. 234 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: Also, a lack of center or many centers falling off balance. 235 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: There's the rhythm, maybe multiple rhythms at once, and juxtaposing 236 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: opposites at once, like fast energetic movements with a stoic face. 237 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 4: And that element of coolness that removed sort of aloofness 238 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 4: that it's almost like you're doing all of this incredible movement, 239 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: but you don't seem to be phased. 240 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: A lot of these movements are in direct contrast to 241 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: traditional classical ballet, or even considered ugly by the ballet establishment, 242 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: but once you list them out, you can't help but 243 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: see them all over balancing's choreography. It's like They're what 244 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: makes balancing, balancing the. 245 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 4: Hips forward, flex feet and hands. He's turning legs in 246 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: and rolling hips out. 247 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: Even back in Apollo, the ballet that put balancing on 248 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: the map when he was twenty four, is bathed in 249 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: the Africanist esthetic parallel feet and three muses who kaikick 250 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: with their pelvises thrusting forward. Then you can keep going 251 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: down the line of Balanchine ballets, symphony and three movements, 252 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: four temperaments, Concerto Barocco, stars and stripes, Bugaku jewels. Princess says, 253 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: any black audience member can see it. Balancing didn't create 254 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: these movements. 255 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 3: There's like hip movements and like it's not something that 256 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 3: you can sometimes articulate. It's something that you just see. Yeah, 257 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: I can see where that came from. Yeah, that's a 258 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 3: little blackness in there right. 259 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: When you lay it out. It's clear that so much 260 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: of what made Balanchine feel fresh to European and white 261 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: audiences where the Africanist artistic principles he was using. It's like, 262 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: what made Balanchine's ballet feel American was that it was black. 263 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 4: It's a vehicle. Blackness is a vehicle. 264 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that it's a. 265 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: Vehicle to get people where they need to go. We 266 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 4: see this culturally all the time. We see the Disney 267 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: children like a mighty cyrus, right clean, squeaky clean. And 268 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 4: when she wants to shift her image to be more adult, 269 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 4: what does she do. She becomes black adjacent, she starts tworking, 270 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 4: She surrounds herself with blackness. It gets a little raunchy, 271 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. And then all of a sudden we 272 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 4: stop thinking of her as Hannah Montana, And now she 273 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 4: has crossed over. And then once she's done crossing over, 274 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 4: she's going to distance herself from blackness, that is, using 275 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 4: it as a vehicle to get you to another place. 276 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 4: So Balancine is using blackness as a vehicle to transform 277 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 4: the ballet idiom into this new sort of avant garde 278 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 4: version of itself in doses, in order to get him 279 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 4: where he needs to be. 280 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: George Balanjan played with the idea of making his company 281 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: half black and half white, but when the time came, 282 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: that idea went out the window pretty fast. For years, 283 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: he didn't hire any black dancers for the New York 284 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: City Ballet, And then came a man named Arthur Mitchell, 285 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell studied at Catherine Dunham's dance school, and then 286 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: he won a scholarship to the School of American Ballet. 287 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty five, he was offered a position at 288 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: Valancine's company. He was the first black dancer ever to 289 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: join it, the first to become a principal with the company. 290 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: Teresa Ruth Howard points out that Arthur Mitchell might not 291 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: have been the most obvious choice. Balancine had already worked 292 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: with black ballet dancers who had more ballet training than 293 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell did. 294 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 4: He was a jazz dancer, he was a tap dancer. 295 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 4: He started studying ballet at eighteen years old, so he 296 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 4: was obviously not a tech cognition, but he had this 297 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 4: other element that was somehow very enticing to Balanchine. Like 298 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 4: he had Arthur Mitchell in the studio and he'd say, Arthur, 299 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 4: show him how it's done. 300 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 3: There are moves that, even though within the classicism of ballet, 301 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 3: when Mitchell does, it's still done with the little And 302 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: it's so hard to say, because as black people, we 303 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 3: have this thing where it's like you just know, like 304 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 3: that's black dance, Like that's the little that's in there right. 305 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell would later say he danced for his mother 306 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: and his people. He said, quote being the first I 307 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: was representing my people, so I had to go out 308 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: there and be good. I couldn't make a mistake. Mitchell 309 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: said that when he joined the company in nineteen fifty five, 310 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: parents of some dancers called Balanchine and said they didn't 311 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: want their daughter to dance with a black man. In response, 312 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: Balanjing said, well take your daughter out. As Arthur Mitchell 313 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: began to perform with City Ballet, he sometimes heard yelling 314 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: or racial slurs from the audience When the company was 315 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: performing Stars and Stripes on TV, and producers wanted to 316 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: take Arthur Mitchell out of the show. Valancine famously responded, 317 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: if Mitchell doesn't dance, New York City Ballet doesn't dance. 318 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: Soon. 319 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: Balancing had a role in mind for Arthur that no 320 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: other dancer in the company could fill. He wanted to 321 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: make a patta d a duet. Stravinsky had composed a 322 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: twelve tone score with irregular measures balanging, cast Diana Adams, 323 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: a white woman, to be Arthur Mitchell's partner. It was 324 00:21:49,200 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: called Agone. Balanging spent days with the dancers testing out 325 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: different ideas, seeing what clicked. Their bodies and movements are 326 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: imprinted on the piece. Balanchine likes to juxtapose their black 327 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: and white skin tones through the simple touch of a 328 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: hand or wrist. Arthur Mitchell later said, my skin color 329 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: against hers. It became part of the choreography. In the ballet, 330 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: Arthur wore a white shirt and tight black pants, Diana 331 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: wore a black leotard. The two dancers bodies repeatedly entangle 332 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: each other and pull apart. They walk together, bending their 333 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: knees in synchrony, and Diana curls her leg around Arthur's 334 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: body and all these different orientations. At one moment, She's 335 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: held high in the air, legsplayed wide apart. She leans 336 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: on Arthur's body for support, then slips down his body 337 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: into the splits on the ground. As she slides beneath 338 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,959 Speaker 1: his legs to move behind him, he kneels and reaches 339 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: back for her as she again opens her legs wide 340 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: to the ceiling. 341 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 4: It was very sexually suggestive. When you're having a black 342 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 4: man manipulating a white woman's body on stage in that era, 343 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 4: it's salacious and it's shocking. But also it's very dangerous 344 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 4: potentially to that black artist because he's got to exit 345 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 4: the stage door. I don't know if that was even 346 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 4: a thought that I'm doing this. This is art and 347 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 4: it's beautiful art. But as I said during BLM, black 348 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 4: artists live black lives that matter, right, and so like 349 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 4: the idea that Arthur Mitchell was going to perform this, 350 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 4: but then he was also going to have to walk 351 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 4: down the street as a black man. I'm just wondering 352 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 4: if that, ever, you know, was thought of. I'm sure 353 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 4: that Arthur Mitchell probably. 354 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: Thought of it. 355 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 4: This is actually an interracial couple. By giving them the 356 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 4: specific movements that he gave them, he's really crossing societal 357 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 4: lines about what's okay. 358 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: Teresa says, every time she sees the padada danced by 359 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: a black man and a white woman, she gets a 360 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: nod in her stomach. She senses the danger and it 361 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: hits her on a cellular level. 362 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 4: Emmett Till was lynched in nineteen fifty five. Agon Is 363 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 4: choreographed in nineteen fifty seven. Emmett Till is a young 364 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 4: boy who it was suggested that he was flirting with 365 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 4: or whistled at, a white woman Balanchine as a black 366 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 4: male body on stage next to a white woman. They 367 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 4: both are scantily clad as dancers are right, the body 368 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 4: is fully exposed. And now when you think about the 369 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 4: movements of Agon, you tell me what you would see, 370 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 4: how you would feel, especially as a black person, it's 371 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 4: easy to just say, oh, it's a wonderful piece. It 372 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 4: was so courageous, courageous for whom who really needed the 373 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 4: courage to choreograph it, what courage was necessary to actually 374 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 4: perform it as a black man. That's where my mind 375 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 4: goes as I think about him choreographing and using blackness 376 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 4: again as a tool. 377 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: After over a decade in Valancine's company, Arthur Mitchell had 378 00:25:58,760 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: made up his mind. 379 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 5: I was dancing with New York City vallet and doctor 380 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 5: Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated, and I felt I 381 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 5: must come back to my community, Harlem and do something 382 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 5: and do what I do well, which was dance and 383 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 5: teach dancing. And I felt that the discipline that you 384 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 5: learned from studying the classic dance would then go into 385 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 5: the daily life of these young people, and they have 386 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 5: a sense of self esteem that yes, I can. 387 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: He started with a garage and poured all the money 388 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: he had into a dance floor, a bar and mirrors. 389 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: It got so hot under the tin roof they left 390 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: the sides open and kids started showing up. Just like 391 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: with balanging, it started with a school and from the school, 392 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell would build a company. How would you describe 393 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell as a person. 394 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: So but this amazing amount of energy. He had a 395 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: tenor voice. The first time I heard his voice, I 396 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 2: was like, oh, his voice is so high. 397 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: Virginia Johnson was a founding member of Arthur Mitchell's ballet company, and. 398 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: He was always yelling. Oh my god, he was always yelling. 399 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 2: But he also had this laugh that he would after 400 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: he brutalizes you, No, he wasn't brutalizing you. After he 401 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: directs you very distinctly. Then he'd find some joke to say, 402 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: and then he would laugh and it would be punctuated 403 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 2: with that Arthur Mitchell laugh. 404 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: There's a story Virginia Johnson has told many times. She 405 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen fifty and she started ballet when 406 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: she was three years old. 407 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: I fell in love with it right from the start 408 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: because I loved moving to music. I loved the whole 409 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: idea of making the music in my body and having 410 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: some relationship to this thing that was so incredibly beautiful. 411 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: Virginia trained and grew as a dancer at her school 412 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, and it graduated. She planned to pursue 413 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: ballet as a career. 414 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: When I was graduating, the director called me in and 415 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: she said, well, you know, Virginia, you're going to have 416 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: a career. You're very talented, but nobody's going to hire 417 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: you in ballet. But it was the reality. The reality 418 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: is nobody was going to hire. 419 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: Me at this point in nineteen sixty nine, The New 420 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: York City Ballet, for example, had literally never hired a 421 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: black female dancer, not one. 422 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: She said, you should go ahead and try modern dance, 423 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: try contemporary dance, ty jazz, things I had never studied. 424 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: So instead of auditioning for ballet companies, Virginia went to NYU. 425 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: She studied modern dance and joined the Black Student Union, 426 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: all the while missing ballet. 427 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: I remember we went and visited the president of the 428 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: university at some point told him that he had to 429 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: deinvest from South Africa. So I had a little bit 430 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: of a militant phase. But those people were looking at 431 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 2: me like, well, what's wrong with you? Why are you 432 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 2: a ballet dancer? And so I was a young person. 433 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: I took that very seriously. Why I am a I 434 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: a ballad answer? That was a really rough period, and 435 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: I did have this identity that was not acceptable to 436 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: what people thought I should have, and there were many 437 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: periods of questioning about that. I became aware of the 438 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: fact that, oh my god, I'm doing this art form 439 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 2: and it's not an art form that is usually assigned 440 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: to my race. But you know, the love of it 441 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: was so strong, and the identity I felt in it 442 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: was so strong. I didn't feel like it was something 443 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: that was applicate. I felt like it was something that 444 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: it's essentially who I am. Ballet is essentially who I am. 445 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: Virginia heard that Arthur Mitchell was teaching ballet classes in 446 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: Harlem on Saturdays. So she figured she'd go get her 447 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: ballet fixed each Saturday and she'd be okay. 448 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: So what up? 449 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: Arthur Mitchell taught in a church basement on Saint Nicholas 450 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: in one hundred and forty first Street. 451 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: And I came and took class for the company. That 452 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: first time, he looked at me and he said, well, 453 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: there's some material there, but I'm going to have to 454 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: retrain you. You can't dance at all. And that's what he 455 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: said to me after the class. Well, you know, it 456 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: was a test. It was a total test. Let me 457 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: be as harsh to this woman as I possibly can 458 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: and see if she comes back. 459 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: And what was he testing? 460 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: He was testing my determination, He was testing my what 461 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: is that insulation? Can I keep the person separate from 462 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: the artist to be Can I wound her so much 463 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: that she can't stand it? Or can she just like 464 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: put on the armor and do what needs to be done. Horrible, 465 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 2: but you need to be very, very, very very strong 466 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: to be a ballet dancer. 467 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: What Virginia learned when she took that ballet class was 468 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: that Arthur Mitchell was starting his own ballet company, the 469 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: Dance Theater of Harlem. 470 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 2: And so I had to get my parents to understand 471 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: that I should walk away from the full scholarship and 472 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: stipend at NYU. I was like, wait, what, You're going 473 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: to walk away from that to work in the basement 474 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: of a church with this maniac on a ballet company 475 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 2: that nobody wants. This is what I wanted. I was 476 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 2: and Mitchell knew that he was creating a company, was 477 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: set out to do something that people said couldn't happen, 478 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: So he didn't want to have to hold people's hand 479 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: through that process, like Okay, are you going to be 480 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: a warrior or are you going to be a whimp? 481 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 2: And the only one at Warriors? The established Vallet community 482 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: were dubious about whether we should be in existence and 483 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 2: whether we could make this work. Also, in the black press, 484 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: there were people going, you know, why this is the 485 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, Why are you doing the white man's art form. 486 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: You should be doing your own heritage, something that has 487 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: some validity. But isn't my heritage whatever I took in 488 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: here in this country, and isn't this part of it. 489 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: We did feel a sense of power by being together. 490 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: Arthur Mitchell was such a dynamic and visionary leader. He 491 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: took all of this very mixed bag of people and 492 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: created a company, made us into one, and made us 493 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: into his army of changing people's minds. There was a 494 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: lot of talking about what we represented and how we 495 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 2: had to be flawless. We were charged with being super 496 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: people all the way through. We had to look right, 497 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: We had to dance right. We had to behave right, 498 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: and it was a very narrowly defined right. Lots of 499 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: people didn't make it in those first dance theater Hollen 500 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 2: days because he was very strict about how he wanted 501 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 2: us to represent twenty four to seven. They were talented 502 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: dancers who just felt like they should be free to 503 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: be who they were. But each of us agreed that 504 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: this was more important than our individual need to be 505 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 2: an individual to make the statement about what was possible 506 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 2: in the art form. 507 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: Still, sometimes individuality was part of the message, and it 508 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: started with something basic tights. 509 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 2: People think about ballet as pink tights and point shusy, 510 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: and we in the very beginning more pink tights and 511 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: point SHOs because we wanted to match that look. 512 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: But ballet pink is not just pink. It's about creating 513 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: an elongated line, one that stretches from the tips of 514 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: your fingers to your face, to your legs to your toes. 515 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: For white dancers, pink does that. But Yangie Stevenson, another 516 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: member of Dance Leader of Harlem, wanted to do things differently. 517 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: Before she joined Arthur Mitchell's company, she'd received a scholarship 518 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: to the school of American Ballet. It had been her 519 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: dream to join Balanchine's company. She stayed in the school 520 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: for years waiting to be chosen by Balanchin. But Teresa 521 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: Ruth Howard says, Yan, she wasn't given the chance. 522 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: She's training, she's seeing her white colleagues get contracts, and 523 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 4: her teacher asked, well, do you want me to ask 524 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 4: mister Balancin what he wants to do with you? And 525 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 4: the teacher came back and said, well, you know, he's 526 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 4: just not ready to break the line. And Yan, she 527 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 4: was a deeply brown skinned woman, right, And so I 528 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 4: always say, you can't break a line if you don't 529 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 4: make a line. But if you add that up with 530 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 4: the peeled apple, then we start to see a different picture. 531 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: Yan. 532 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: She later said she noticed when she wore pink tights 533 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: her arms didn't match her legs. She felt disjointed. Now 534 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: at Dance Theater of Harlem, Yan she was on a 535 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: mission to make a change to that very line. 536 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: She would wear flesh colored tights over her pink tights 537 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: and rehearsal. 538 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: She thought the flesh colored tights gave her a better line, 539 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: and she took it up with Arthur Mitchell. 540 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: And she kept bugging him. She kept saying, we should 541 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 2: be wearing flesh colored tights. 542 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: Clearly, Arthur Mitchell was drawn to this idea. He thought 543 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: this was a statement his company could make, and he 544 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: must have started scheming with the wardrobe mistress. 545 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 2: Because she had to dye the tights. She had to 546 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 2: dye all these different shades of brown. 547 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,959 Speaker 1: All these smooth, feathery strips of fabric in a range 548 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: of beautiful brown heath. To get this prism of colors, 549 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: the wardrobe mistress would need precision, and to extend the line, 550 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: the shoes would need to match too. They debuted their 551 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: new look on a European tour. 552 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 2: We were all different shades of brown, and so everybody 553 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 2: had a pair of tights that met their own skin color. 554 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: So when the curtain goes up on the stage, then 555 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 2: you have this. It's not a rainbow, but it's all 556 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: these shoes and it's so rich, and it's so nuanced, 557 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: and it's so individual, non matching, and that was part 558 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: of what was so gorgeous about dancing aar and we've 559 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: had flash colored tights ever since. 560 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: Virginia loved to dance, But weirdly enough, she absolutely hated performing. 561 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: I was afraid of it, you know, I was so 562 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 2: afraid of. 563 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: It, especially in some of Valancine's ballets like Agon. 564 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 2: I was not the athletic, abstract ballery. I never had 565 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 2: that kind of sharp clarity, that precision, and I felt 566 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 2: so exposed in those works. But then we started doing 567 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,280 Speaker 2: story ballets. That's my home. I love telling stories. 568 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: She danced in a Fellow Streetcarnde Desire Creole Gizelle. Virginia 569 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: was the main character Giselle. 570 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 2: The story ballets You're Not You. Those were ballets that 571 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: I didn't get as nervous in because it wasn't me. 572 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: I could become that person. 573 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: Virginia was finding herself as a dancer. She was a 574 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: dramatic ballerina, a great one. 575 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 2: I could feel the audience come to me, and I 576 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 2: could feel myself go out to them, and I could 577 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 2: feel that really dynamic connection between us living that story. 578 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 2: That thing would happen, right. It gets a different kind 579 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 2: of quiet. It's like you're in a vacuum together. You 580 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 2: notice that there's no sound, that's the first thing you notice, 581 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 2: But then you feel it in your heart. You feel 582 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: like there's a hole sort of in your STERNA. Yeah, 583 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 2: in the center, in the core of your being. You 584 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 2: feel the energy coming in here and you just feel 585 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 2: this exchange of energy and it's nothing like it. 586 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: Virginia held a special place and dance Theater of Harlem, 587 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: a founding member of Principal, A ballerina who danced the 588 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: great roles. She was quiet and focused, always at the 589 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: section of the ballet bar, distant from the rest, close 590 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: to Arthur Mitchell. Arthur Mitchell said she was one of 591 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: the truly great ballerinas dancing today. He called her my Virginia. 592 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: How would you describe your relationship with Arthur Mitchell? 593 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 2: Obedient servant dancers were seen and not heard at all. 594 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 2: Once again, it's a different time from now. It was 595 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 2: a very hierarchical environment where decisions were made above our 596 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 2: heads and we followed through. It was about serving a 597 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: vision to present the ideal was for the greater good 598 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 2: of everyone, and I also the obedient part was a 599 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 2: necessity to get the work done. In retrospect, I think 600 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: he had respect for who I was and what I 601 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 2: could do, but that wasn't something that he could manifest 602 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 2: on a daily basis. I can remember feeling so crushed 603 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 2: and unhappy, but getting to do what I love doing. 604 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 2: So you know it's a trade off. You say, Okay, 605 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 2: that's hurt, but ooh look what I have. What hurt? Well? 606 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 2: You never I never felt that I was doing it right, 607 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 2: that I was good enough, that it was the thing 608 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 2: that it should be. Never. Never, there was never a 609 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 2: moment I was like good. 610 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 3: Never. 611 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 2: No, no, it could always be better. It could always 612 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 2: be better. 613 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: Virginia says she only stopped dancing when she realized she 614 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: wasn't going to get any better than she already was. 615 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 2: Then I had to say, I've got to go. It's 616 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 2: time to go. 617 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: After twenty eight years with the company, she retired from 618 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: the stage. She became the founding editor in chief of 619 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: Point Magazine, a magazine I poured over and kept in slippery, 620 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: lopsided piles under my bed as a kid. In the meantime, 621 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: dance Leader of Harlem was struggling. Money was always an issue, 622 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: and in two thousand and four the company went on hiatus. 623 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: The break was supposed to be temporary, but years passed, 624 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: and then in two thousand and nine, Arthur Mitchell called Virginia. 625 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 2: He said, well, look, you know I'm going to leave, 626 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 2: and I want you to take over. 627 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: He asked her to take over Dance Theater of Harlem. 628 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: She felt she couldn't say no. 629 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 2: I definitely, definitely, definitely did not want to be the 630 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 2: brutal leader that Arthur Mitchell was. I definitely wanted to 631 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 2: be somebody who recognized the individuals in the room and 632 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 2: got them to grow and to become great artists without 633 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 2: harming them. Simple enough, they're not just bodies to be shaped. 634 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 2: She's a wiggle monster, A wiggle monster, wiggle monster, you're. 635 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: Gonna Virginia Johnson leads a rehearsal with a toddler on 636 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: her lap. She's on tour with Dance Theater of Harlem, 637 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: and it's one of the dancers. 638 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 2: Babies, you're so strong. 639 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,760 Speaker 1: Whoa. The little girl comes along on tour with the company, 640 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: and Virginia and the other dancers keep her on their 641 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: hips when mom is dancing. 642 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 2: What oh, she said, words too? She said words? What 643 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: words are we saying? 644 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: Then Virginia stands to give more pointed direction. 645 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 2: So the tour is fine. I'm not worried about that. 646 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 2: But then everything just kind of goes flat and we 647 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: have to have the three dimensional quality. Yeah, so you 648 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 2: have you do downstage and upstage and then downstage. Yeah. 649 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 2: For me, it seems like the hard thing is the season, 650 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 2: not the tour, the double tour. You have to make 651 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 2: the season. Yes, my goodness, you can't look in the 652 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 2: mirror and then you turned face up stage, So you 653 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 2: have to have that clarity. 654 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,720 Speaker 1: There are nineteen dancers in the company now. But Virginia 655 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: says when she first started to rebuild a dance theater 656 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: of Harlem from scratch, the task wasn't easy. She decided 657 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: to have a national audition. 658 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 2: To her we would have two hundred people in the 659 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 2: room and five of them would be black. And that 660 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 2: was a very sobering moment. It was a very sobering moment. 661 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,439 Speaker 2: And that hit me like, Okay, you know, Dance Seat 662 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 2: of Harlem has been off the stage for almost ten years, 663 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 2: and people are no longer thinking about us in ballet now. 664 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 2: I was not just looking for African American dancers, and 665 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 2: I didn't just hire African American dancers, but that's an 666 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 2: important part of our message to put us on the 667 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 2: stage where other companies weren't. Even as late as twenty 668 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 2: ten eleven, nobody wanted us in ballet. You know, it's 669 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 2: still like, oh, well, you know, you can do the 670 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 2: contemporary stuff, but you can't do the ballet stuff. 671 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: Black ballet dancers still hear this all the time. Maybe 672 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: try contemporary. I talked to a dance leader of Harlem 673 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,479 Speaker 1: company member whose teacher said this just a few years ago. 674 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 4: You know, as we begin to fill in or rewrite 675 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 4: the narrative, correct the narrative, we're starting to uncover the 676 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 4: reality that whiteness as a construct has continuously used blackness 677 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 4: to expand itself, if you. 678 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: Will, and then erasing that source in a way. 679 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 4: When you to be blunt when you are stealing things 680 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,720 Speaker 4: from people, are you citing your sources? Yes, I stole 681 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 4: this from over here. No, And here's the reality. And 682 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,359 Speaker 4: I say that glibly. But the reality is is that 683 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 4: it wasn't even considered to be stealing, Like the idea 684 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 4: that white people thought that entitlement meant that they could 685 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:20,919 Speaker 4: take anything they wanted and absorb it. There was never 686 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 4: even an idea that one should include these people. They're 687 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 4: lesser than right, given that it would make sense that 688 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 4: no one in the Balanchine legacy would be talking about 689 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,479 Speaker 4: it that overtly they would not be owning that because 690 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:39,879 Speaker 4: he himself didn't own it. 691 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: Then it's not part of the oral history that gets 692 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: passed down from dancer to student to next generation of 693 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: ballet students. 694 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 4: Absolutely not, because they don't see it as a part 695 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 4: of their story. Actually they see it as a footnote. 696 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 4: Oh and then that thing. They don't see it as 697 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 4: the actual sort of nucleus of what we understand to 698 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 4: be the balancing aesthetic, that it's based on the African aesthetic. 699 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 4: But what if we did. 700 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: Next time on the Turning? 701 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 6: In ballet companies, there's a lot of couples. I remember 702 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 6: thinking to myself, I should get a boyfriend in the 703 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 6: company to secure my job. If I could, like really 704 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 6: show that I was a straight woman somehow, that would 705 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 6: secure my spot. 706 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: The Turning is a production of Rococo, Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 707 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: It's written and produced by Alan Lance Lesser and Me. 708 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed 709 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,760 Speaker 1: by James Trout. Jessica Crisa is our assistant producer. Andrea 710 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: Assuage is our digital producer. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. 711 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Brenda Dixon Gotshield, who traced the Africanist 712 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: esthetic through Balanjine's ballets in her book Digging the Africanist 713 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 1: Presence in American Performance, Dance and other contexts. Also special 714 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,800 Speaker 1: thanks to Teresa Ruth Howard. She's created an incredible online 715 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: resource called Memoirs of Blacks in Ballet or mob Ballet. 716 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: It presents the stories of more than six hundred Black 717 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: artists in the field of ballet. You can read them 718 00:47:49,400 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: all at mobballet dot org. Our executive producers are John 719 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: Parati and Jessica Alpert at Rocco Punch at Gatrina Norbel 720 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: and Nikki Etour at iHeart Podcasts. For photos and more 721 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: details on the series, follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch, 722 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: and you can reach out via email The Turning at 723 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: Rococo Punch dot com. I'm Erica Lance. Thanks for listening.