Speaker 1: But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
Speaker 1: the Outspoken podcast Network.
Speaker 2: So I was completely alone in my apartment. I was
Speaker 2: in the second bedroom. I remember the sunlight coming in
Speaker 2: and pulling down the blinds and setting up the tripod,
Speaker 2: and everything just felt like it was moving more slowly.
Speaker 3: It just felt really still and quiet, like I knew.
Speaker 2: That I was as ready as I would ever be
Speaker 2: to do this, and I was extremely nervous, but I
Speaker 2: was just like, the thought of staying the same and
Speaker 2: continuing this like status quo is so much more terrifying
Speaker 2: to me than coming out. I wanted to take control
Speaker 2: of my story and not be a shame. I remember
Speaker 2: just turning on the camera and I just started talking.
Speaker 1: As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South,
Speaker 1: I thought being gay was the worst thing I could
Speaker 1: ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to unlearn
Speaker 1: that by seeking out our history, and what I've found
Speaker 1: are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love.
Speaker 1: In this episode, we'll meet Ingrid Nilsen, who has one
Speaker 1: of the most viewed coming out videos on YouTube of
Speaker 1: all time, and we'll learn the impact that the video
Speaker 1: had on her and an entire generation of young queer people.
Speaker 1: From My Heart podcast, I'm Jordan, go and solve this
Speaker 1: and this is what we loved. Coming out can be
Speaker 1: one of the most vulnerable experiences that we can have.
Speaker 1: I remember when I came out, there was so much crying.
Speaker 1: I felt like I was bringing a shadow into the light,
Speaker 1: this shadow that I always thought was shameful and horrible,
Speaker 1: and I was saying, I am that shadow. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine anyone seeing that moment because I felt so emotionally exposed.
Speaker 1: But nowadays a lot of people record themselves coming out
Speaker 1: and posted on YouTube for the whole inner ned to see,
Speaker 1: And as of this episode, there are tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of those coming out videos currently on the platform, and
Speaker 1: these videos are powerful. They can provide role models to
Speaker 1: queer kids who might feel isolated. Interestingly enough, four out
Speaker 1: of the ten countries that watch coming out videos the
Speaker 1: most are countries where being queer is dangerous. That list
Speaker 1: includes countries like Russia and Indonesia. But what about the
Speaker 1: actual people behind these videos, This really intimate moment now
Speaker 1: on public display. The comments on these videos are extreme,
Speaker 1: either people idolizing you or tearing you down. That's a
Speaker 1: lot for someone who is usually young and who is
Speaker 1: also just bringing that shadow into the light for the
Speaker 1: first time. So what are the personal effects of coming
Speaker 1: out on the internet and why would someone want to
Speaker 1: do it? My next guest at one point had the
Speaker 1: second most viewed coming out video of all time, and
Speaker 1: after nearly ten years, it's still in the top five.
Speaker 1: In fact, as of this episode, it's been watched over
Speaker 1: eighteen million times. Ingrid Nilsen was one of YouTube's early starvloggers.
Speaker 1: She doesn't post there anymore, but that coming out video
Speaker 1: she made it lives on and I wanted to know
Speaker 1: the story behind that video, what led up to it,
Speaker 1: and what happened after. We have this thing on the
Speaker 1: show where we kind of ask everyone like, when did
Speaker 1: you know you were yay? What was that for you?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: So the first very clear moment where I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is very different was Tila Tequila's shot it lost.
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with that show and I would sneak
Speaker 2: it because I wasn't allowed to watch things on MTV
Speaker 2: or VH one, and so I would sneak it when
Speaker 2: nobody was around. And for people who don't know Tela
Speaker 2: Tequila's Shot at Love was a reality show where Tila
Speaker 2: Tequila is a bisexual woman and she had a pool
Speaker 2: of people to choose from both men and women, and
Speaker 2: they were all vying for a shot at love. It
Speaker 2: was a dating reality show and there was one contestant
Speaker 2: who was a woman named Danny, and I had never
Speaker 2: seen a more masculine presenting woman, and my.
Speaker 3: Whole body just like lit up.
Speaker 2: I've been watching a lot of Love Island, the UK version,
Speaker 2: and they say Fanny flutters and that definitely happened to
Speaker 2: me with like all my teenage hormones running through me,
Speaker 2: and I just felt it so deeply in my body
Speaker 2: and I was obsessed. So that was really the first
Speaker 2: time where I recognized that I had this attraction to
Speaker 2: another woman.
Speaker 3: That was like an awakening for me on so many levels.
Speaker 1: So many of us queer folks like have the same
Speaker 1: experience of like getting our family flutters from like AMTV shows.
Speaker 1: I remember for me it was Room Raiders, like the
Speaker 1: gay edition, and my finger was on the remote like
Speaker 1: ready to change it in the case that my mom
Speaker 1: walked in or anything.
Speaker 2: Was that you two yes, finger on the remote ready
Speaker 2: like high alert.
Speaker 3: I definitely did that too.
Speaker 1: So you grew up in California in the two thousands, yep,
Speaker 1: what was that like as a queer kid?
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't have language for it, but I
Speaker 2: was definitely aware of just being more interested in other
Speaker 2: girls than my peers were. You know, growing up in
Speaker 2: southern California. I think a lot of people think, oh, California,
Speaker 2: is this really progressive place. And there are really progressive places,
Speaker 2: and also there are many places that are extremely conservative.
Speaker 2: And I grew up thirty miles outside Los Angeles in
Speaker 2: a place called Roland Heights. When I was growing up,
Speaker 2: the area was really going through this huge shift, and
Speaker 2: so there were a lot of conservative values, like I
Speaker 2: remember Prop eight and this is.
Speaker 1: The gay marriage vote that California was having eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I remember how much hatred there was for
Speaker 2: gay people. Everybody had signs out in their front yard.
Speaker 2: It was just so how much people didn't want this.
Speaker 2: And I think was giving me the message that this
Speaker 2: isn't okay, Like you need to stay in line with
Speaker 2: what's expected.
Speaker 1: Of you, which was data boy, get married to a boy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And tell me about your family growing up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, my mom is from Thailand, so
Speaker 2: especially my mom, being an immigrant, I was expected to
Speaker 2: be like a good girl and not ruffle any feathers,
Speaker 2: very much in line with how Asian women are. Their
Speaker 2: parents want them to move through the world and not
Speaker 2: really make any waves, you know. She wanted me to
Speaker 2: have a better life, and a lot of times that
Speaker 2: looked like being quiet, staying small, et cetera.
Speaker 1: I relate to that a lot because I think when
Speaker 1: you have immigrant parents, it's their whole operating premise is
Speaker 1: like put your head down, don't say too much, and
Speaker 1: do exactly what is prescribed in order to be successful exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's the two thousands, my Space is thriving, YouTube
Speaker 1: is just becoming popular. How did you then kind of
Speaker 1: get into YouTube?
Speaker 2: I got into YouTube because I started having an interest
Speaker 2: in makeup in high school and one of the things
Speaker 2: that my mom could afford to give to me was
Speaker 2: a subscription to seventeen magazine, and I devoured that thing.
Speaker 2: Every single month. I would wait for it to come
Speaker 2: in the mail, and I specifically loved the beauty and
Speaker 2: style sections, so I would save up my money and
Speaker 2: buy things that they recommended. But a lot of times
Speaker 2: what they recommended were for blonde, white girls, and so
Speaker 2: I would buy something and it just wouldn't work on me,
Speaker 2: and I just felt really frustrated. So I started going
Speaker 2: on just Google, or maybe it wasn't even Google. It
Speaker 2: was like ask Jeeves or something at that time, Like
Speaker 2: I just searched online for makeup tips, and I discovered YouTube,
Speaker 2: which was still so new. It Yeah, So I eventually
Speaker 2: found these young women in their bedrooms all over the
Speaker 2: world talking about the makeup that they were using. They
Speaker 2: would show what they would buy and then they would
Speaker 2: show how to use it, and I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this is amazing. I was finding other mixed
Speaker 2: race women, women who were living in Asia and were
Speaker 2: showing like mascaras that worked for their lashes. So I
Speaker 2: remember that was like a huge game changer for me.
Speaker 2: It was also something that I really latched onto for
Speaker 2: a reason deeper than just makeup.
Speaker 3: It was because I felt.
Speaker 2: Really alone at that time because only a couple years before,
Speaker 2: my dad had died and my mom all throughout my
Speaker 2: high school years, she had breast cancer and it was
Speaker 2: extremely serious and nobody knew if she was going to live, honestly,
Speaker 2: and so for years I was preparing for my mom
Speaker 2: to die, and in the middle of my junior year,
Speaker 2: my dad suddenly died. He went from being totally fine
Speaker 2: and healthy at the beginning of the week and at
Speaker 2: the end of the week he was dead.
Speaker 3: He had a stroke.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I remember I was really little, I had this
Speaker 2: nightmare about marrying a boy and I was distressed when
Speaker 2: I woke up, and I remember I ran to my
Speaker 2: dad and like curled up in his arms, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to marry a boy. And
Speaker 2: I remember my dad saying to me, well, you don't
Speaker 2: have to. And I didn't really like think anything of
Speaker 2: it at the time, but now looking back on it,
Speaker 2: I see that as a moment of my dad really
Speaker 2: holding space for me and that moment and not judging it.
Speaker 2: And my dad was also my creative champion, So when
Speaker 2: he died, I really just stopped creating because I was
Speaker 2: so incredibly grief stricken and I really just felt so alone.
Speaker 2: And when I found these young women on YouTube just
Speaker 2: in their bedrooms, like it was like the rest of
Speaker 2: the world didn't exist for those ten minutes that I
Speaker 2: was watching that video, and it felt like I was
Speaker 2: sitting down with a friend and they were showing me
Speaker 2: all of their makeup, and that was so much fun for.
Speaker 1: Me, Like it was sort of an escape exactly.
Speaker 2: And I had watched YouTube for a while and I
Speaker 2: felt like I had learned a lot of things from
Speaker 2: all of these other young women, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: well I'm going to post my own because at that time,
Speaker 2: it really was a community where you could keep track
Speaker 2: of every creator in all the different genres, not just beauty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is like two thousand.
Speaker 2: And nine, yeah, and so I had no idea what
Speaker 2: I was doing, but it just felt good to contribute
Speaker 2: and give back to a space that had, even at
Speaker 2: that point, given me so much, and it just kind.
Speaker 3: Of grew from there.
Speaker 2: It was a strange experience.
Speaker 1: It's twenty ten. Ingrid has only been on YouTube for
Speaker 1: a year, but her following is exploding. She started by
Speaker 1: posting makeup videos in her room, but then she began
Speaker 1: expanding her content, documenting her life, talking about dating and
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety. She was becoming more than a popular YouTuber,
Speaker 1: she was becoming a role model to hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of young women across the world. They saw her as
Speaker 1: the perfect all American girl, beautiful and stylish, smart and funny.
Speaker 1: She hoped that by living up to this perfect ideal,
Speaker 1: maybe no one would find out that she was gay.
Speaker 2: There was this part of me that just felt really other,
Speaker 2: almost like somebody was going to find out that I
Speaker 2: was like a fraud. I think because I was so
Speaker 2: deeply in the closet, I really reached for this idea
Speaker 2: of what was perfect. I tried to be as perfect
Speaker 2: as possible so there wouldn't be anything that anyone could
Speaker 2: like pick me apart for. So I think that being
Speaker 2: on the Internet in my early twenties, I started learning
Speaker 2: I'm going to be picked apart for anything and everything,
Speaker 2: and all of this was so new for everyone, and
Speaker 2: people just expected you to tolerate it. Like if I saw
Speaker 2: a comment that hurt me and it had to do
Speaker 2: with like what I was doing or how I was speaking,
Speaker 2: I would try so hard to like fix myself, but
Speaker 2: there was nothing I could do to like get it right.
Speaker 2: So I just constantly felt like I was like trying
Speaker 2: to fix myself in order to be like as perfect
Speaker 2: as possible.
Speaker 1: When we come back Ingrid's YouTube following continues to grow,
Speaker 1: and with it, the pressure to come out in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: Ingrid had become one of the most popular vloggers on
Speaker 1: YouTube to millions of people. She had the perfect life,
Speaker 1: complete with a boyfriend. There was something about her that
Speaker 1: felt so relatable, but to her, she felt like she
Speaker 1: was hiding a secret from everyone that she was gay,
Speaker 1: and that secret was building inside of her like a
Speaker 1: pressure cooker. The stakes were high for her. YouTube wasn't
Speaker 1: just a hobby, it was her job, and it was
Speaker 1: also her community. After years of feeling isolated while grieving
Speaker 1: her father's death, she was finally starting to feel like
Speaker 1: she belonged, like she was part of something, and she
Speaker 1: was afraid that by telling people she was gay, she'd
Speaker 1: lose that. So you are at this point building a
Speaker 1: really big following, like amassing millions of subscribers, millions of
Speaker 1: views on YouTube, and you're sharing really all of your
Speaker 1: life with your followers, but you are still closeted. Why
Speaker 1: do you think at that point you were staying in
Speaker 1: the closet.
Speaker 2: I was definitely afraid. I was scared, in part for
Speaker 2: my physical safety living my life so publicly. There were
Speaker 2: times where my personal space and safety were violated, and
Speaker 2: so I was like, if I come out, Am I
Speaker 2: putting myself in even more danger? Am I making myself
Speaker 2: even more of a target for people?
Speaker 3: So that was one thought, and then I was also.
Speaker 2: Just afraid of being even more isolated than I had
Speaker 2: already felt like, I felt like, you know, I am
Speaker 2: finally developing friendships that I feel like could last for
Speaker 2: a long time, and I feel more confident about myself
Speaker 2: in terms of business and work and my skills, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to lose all of that. I didn't
Speaker 2: want people to view me differently in a negative way
Speaker 2: because I just felt like, well, if they know this
Speaker 2: thing about me, They're going to think that I was
Speaker 2: lying to them this whole time, and that I'm a
Speaker 2: liar and that I am a fraud, and like all
Speaker 2: of these things that I've been so scared of are
Speaker 2: going to be true.
Speaker 3: I was really afraid that.
Speaker 2: My mom would want nothing to do with me anymore,
Speaker 2: and that was like my one parent that I had left,
Speaker 2: and even though we had a very complicated relationship, I
Speaker 2: didn't want her to disown me. So there were a
Speaker 2: lot of fears just kind of circling around, and every
Speaker 2: day it kind of felt like a new one. Was
Speaker 2: like the number one fear. So I just felt a
Speaker 2: lot of like weight in terms of the repercussions of
Speaker 2: coming out.
Speaker 1: Were you scared that if people knew the truth about
Speaker 1: you that they wouldn't love you? Yes, including your mom? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So what was the moment when you thought to yourself,
Speaker 1: I just can't run away from this anymore.
Speaker 2: I hit this breaking point. I at first thought it
Speaker 2: was because I was so overwhelmed with work, and I
Speaker 2: remember crying on the phone with my manager at the time,
Speaker 2: like I was on my couch on the phone crying,
Speaker 2: saying that I just I needed a break because I
Speaker 2: was just going, going, going for years, and I just
Speaker 2: needed to have some kind of separation from this constant
Speaker 2: schedule that I was in. And I just had this
Speaker 2: feeling of I need to go to New York. I
Speaker 2: associated New York City with really great memories. So I
Speaker 2: booked an airbnb for six weeks and it was like
Speaker 2: a fifth floor walk up in the middle of summer,
Speaker 2: and that's where I really came out to myself because
Speaker 2: I finally just had space from everything in my everyday
Speaker 2: life to really just be with myself. I was listening
Speaker 2: to music, reading poetry, going.
Speaker 3: On walks stillness exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think just being in a different location, being
Speaker 2: by myself, having this stillness, there was just no way
Speaker 2: that I could hide from it. It just became so clear,
Speaker 2: so clear, like every day it was clearer. And I
Speaker 2: came back from that trip, and not long after, I
Speaker 2: broke up with my boyfriend, who I was like getting
Speaker 2: ready to move in with.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: So yeah, after that trip, it was just like this
Speaker 2: domino effect of breaking up with my boyfriend. Then I
Speaker 2: started going through all my friends and coming out to them,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I am going to tell my
Speaker 2: mom last, because that was the person I was most
Speaker 2: afraid to tell. So when it came time to tell
Speaker 2: my mom, I honestly felt like I was going to
Speaker 2: be sick and cry at the same time. And I
Speaker 2: remember just sitting in her living room and I was like,
Speaker 2: I have to tell you something, and she was like what.
Speaker 2: She was scared, like what do you have to tell me?
Speaker 2: And I told her that I'm gay. It's something that's
Speaker 2: always been a part of me. And she sat there
Speaker 2: for a minute and was quiet, and one of the
Speaker 2: first things she asked, what does this mean You're going
Speaker 2: to uh change the way that like you dress and
Speaker 2: you're not going to be interested.
Speaker 4: In makeup anymore.
Speaker 2: And I was like, mom, no, like it has nothing
Speaker 2: to do wow with that.
Speaker 3: But she was so supportive.
Speaker 2: She was just like, you know, you are my daughter,
Speaker 2: and I love you and I want you to be happy.
Speaker 2: She had told me, you know, I just keep remembering
Speaker 2: what your dad would always say to me, because I
Speaker 2: was always trying to like control like what you were
Speaker 2: doing and how you looked. And he was like, our
Speaker 2: job as parents is not to like own her, Like
Speaker 2: we don't own our child. We are just here to
Speaker 2: guide her and you have to let her or be
Speaker 2: whoever she's.
Speaker 3: Going to be.
Speaker 2: And I think when I came out, that was the
Speaker 2: moment where my mom really like stepped into that role.
Speaker 1: That's powerful. So basically, now you know, you are out
Speaker 1: to your friends and your family, but you're not out
Speaker 1: to your YouTube following what influence do you to come
Speaker 1: out on YouTube?
Speaker 2: The reason why I wanted to share that with my
Speaker 2: community was because I felt like I couldn't authentically move
Speaker 2: forward and like continue doing my work without sharing this
Speaker 2: information because it was such a huge part of my life.
Speaker 2: And also I wanted to take control of my story.
Speaker 2: I want to just own my story and not be
Speaker 2: ashamed of it.
Speaker 1: So now walk me through that moment that you came
Speaker 1: out on YouTube.
Speaker 2: So I was completely alone in my apartment. I was
Speaker 2: in the second bedroom. I remember it was like really
Speaker 2: warm because I didn't have air conditioning, and the afternoon
Speaker 2: sun came into that room, and I remember the sunlight
Speaker 2: coming in and pulling down the blinds and setting up
Speaker 2: the tripod, and everything just felt like it was moving
Speaker 2: more slowly.
Speaker 3: It just felt really still.
Speaker 2: And quiet, like I knew that I was as ready
Speaker 2: as I would ever be to do this, and I
Speaker 2: was extremely nervous, but I was just like the thought
Speaker 2: of staying the same and continuing this like status quo
Speaker 2: is so much more terrifying to me than coming out.
Speaker 2: I remember I like, I was like, I can't even
Speaker 2: style my hair. I'm gonna throw on some red lips
Speaker 2: because that makes me feel like myself. I'm gonna put
Speaker 2: on a striped shirt. And I remember setting up one
Speaker 2: of my dad's paintings behind me and just feeling like
Speaker 2: I want to have my dad here with me in
Speaker 2: this moment, and that was the way that I felt
Speaker 2: like I could have him with me. So there's this
Speaker 2: painting in the background of my coming out video that
Speaker 2: is my dad's, and I remember just turning on the
Speaker 2: camera and I just started talking.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm doing this.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 5: I guess I am just.
Speaker 4: Going to get right to it.
Speaker 5: There's something that I want you to know, and that
Speaker 5: something is.
Speaker 4: I'm gay. It feels so good.
Speaker 3: That moment is just burned into my memory.
Speaker 5: So I am sitting here today because I care about
Speaker 5: you guys.
Speaker 4: You have been a part of.
Speaker 5: My life for the past, you know, almost six years,
Speaker 5: and this is a really big part.
Speaker 4: Of my life.
Speaker 2: I remember finishing the filming part of it and already
Speaker 2: feeling like, okay, like here's one weight that has been lifted,
Speaker 2: Like I was just getting lighter and lighter with every
Speaker 2: step that I was taking in the process. And when
Speaker 2: it came to posting it, I knew that it was
Speaker 2: going to be extremely emotional for me, and I told
Speaker 2: my friends, I want to post the video and then
Speaker 2: run away from it and not look at it, and
Speaker 2: I want to go on a road trip to Mane
Speaker 2: and be with my favorite people. And that's exactly what
Speaker 2: we did. I remember posting it in my living room
Speaker 2: the same couch that I had been.
Speaker 1: Crying, like on the phone, the same couch that you
Speaker 1: were crying on the phone with your manager.
Speaker 3: Yeah wow Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I made it live and wanted nothing to do
Speaker 2: with whatever the outcome was.
Speaker 1: When you look back at your decision to post the
Speaker 1: YouTube video, what gave you the courage to do that,
Speaker 1: because it's a pretty remarkable shift from the ingrid that
Speaker 1: was trying to be perfect for everyone.
Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to live my life as fully
Speaker 2: as possible, and that's ultimately what it came down to.
Speaker 2: I knew that taking this step, doing something that I
Speaker 2: had been.
Speaker 3: So afraid of, was worth it. Like my body on.
Speaker 2: Every level was telling me, you have to do this,
Speaker 2: like you just cannot hold this in any longer, like
Speaker 2: you are ready to get this out. And I really
Speaker 2: felt like that was the first step in this deeper
Speaker 2: self discovery that then followed.
Speaker 5: I want to live my life unapologetically because I'm proud
Speaker 5: of who I am and I'm not going to apologize
Speaker 5: for who I am anymore. This is life that I've
Speaker 5: always lived in my head.
Speaker 3: I don't know it's real.
Speaker 4: I love you guys.
Speaker 1: It's twenty fifteen and Ingrid has just come out to
Speaker 1: the world on her YouTube channel, and the response was
Speaker 1: pretty intense. She had instantly become an idol to millions,
Speaker 1: but she had also opened herself up to a lot
Speaker 1: of criticism as well. People saw her as the stereotypical
Speaker 1: girls girl, someone who loved hair and makeup and shopping,
Speaker 1: and her coming out video broke a lot of stereotypes
Speaker 1: around the image people had of what a lesbian looks like.
Speaker 1: At the time, a lot of people couldn't believe that
Speaker 1: she was a lesbian. This was all hard for her
Speaker 1: to deal with, on the one hand, becoming a hero
Speaker 1: and on the other being questioned about the most vulnerable
Speaker 1: thing she had ever revealed about herself. So what was
Speaker 1: the the response like.
Speaker 2: Well, I went on this road trip with my friends
Speaker 2: and one of my best friends to this day, Eileen,
Speaker 2: she worked with me at the time, and I remember
Speaker 2: at one point she was like, it hadn't even been
Speaker 2: twenty four hours and she was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it has like a million views and it hasn't even
Speaker 2: been a day. And I was just like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to know anything. I was like, don't tell me anything.
Speaker 2: So all my friends respected that and so it wasn't
Speaker 2: until I returned from that trip where I was just like,
Speaker 2: what just happened. I come back and it has like
Speaker 2: millions of views. I'm getting tweets from so many people,
Speaker 2: people reaching out to my management, like offering book deals,
Speaker 2: people reaching out in the creator community, being so supportive.
Speaker 2: So it was just like stepping into a whirlwind that
Speaker 2: I just was not expecting at all, And it was
Speaker 2: a really strange experience, honestly, Like, I don't think going
Speaker 2: viral is like something that our bodies or minds are really.
Speaker 3: Equipped to handle.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people associate going viral
Speaker 2: with being a really good thing and being really exciting.
Speaker 2: But for me, knowing that so many people I didn't know, strangers,
Speaker 2: straight up strangers who had never watched a video from
Speaker 2: me before, we're seeing this video and weighing in on it,
Speaker 2: like articles were being written about it, and I was
Speaker 2: just like, I felt so vulnerable and so exposed. And
Speaker 2: so that was a lot for me to just take
Speaker 2: in mentally and emotionally, and also dealing with the comments.
Speaker 2: There were so many comments telling me that I was
Speaker 2: a liar, that I was just doing this for attention,
Speaker 2: that I don't look a.
Speaker 1: Because people were sort of unable to deal with the
Speaker 1: fact that you didn't fit their stereotype of what a
Speaker 1: lesbian looks like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And after sharing something so personal personal and then getting
Speaker 2: that response of like, you're a liar, you're a fraud,
Speaker 2: You're like doing this for attention, we don't believe you,
Speaker 2: which really fed into, you know, this.
Speaker 3: Core fear that I had that really hurt.
Speaker 2: And I think that I'm still unpacking all of that
Speaker 2: even now, ingered.
Speaker 1: What did you learn about yourself with all of the
Speaker 1: exposure that came from this experience.
Speaker 2: You know, I spent all of my twenties sharing my
Speaker 2: life online, which is one of the most tumultuous decades
Speaker 2: of I think a lot of people's lives, and I
Speaker 2: really just had to figure it out in front of people.
Speaker 2: And now I've really just relaxed a lot more into
Speaker 2: who I am. You know, after coming out, there was
Speaker 2: this period of time where I felt like I had
Speaker 2: to prove my gayness, my queerness, that I am a
Speaker 2: real lesbian. Like I was so worried about do I
Speaker 2: look gay enough? How is anybody going to be able
Speaker 2: to tell that I'm gay? Because of like how I look.
Speaker 2: And I've realized that for me, queerness is so much
Speaker 2: more than who I'm having sex with and how I
Speaker 2: present to the world physically. It's how I live my
Speaker 2: life on multiple levels.
Speaker 3: It's how I spend my money.
Speaker 2: It's how I vote, it's the people that I surround
Speaker 2: myself with.
Speaker 3: Everything.
Speaker 2: It is really expansive. And so once I stopped equating
Speaker 2: my queerness with just how I looked, I started to
Speaker 2: relax more because I was just like, I know that
Speaker 2: I am so queer, I am so gay.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that what you learned is that you
Speaker 1: define your queerness, yeah, and not anyone else.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know you at the same time are getting
Speaker 1: a lot of this backlash around coming out, but there
Speaker 1: are millions of people that are getting inspired by this video.
Speaker 1: I want to read you a comment. Actually, I'm thirteen
Speaker 1: years old and I'm a lesbian. I've never said this before,
Speaker 1: and I'm terrified of telling my parents, but your video
Speaker 1: has inspired me to come out. What does that mean
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of makes me want to cry
Speaker 2: because I just like feel myself in that comment. I
Speaker 2: think that as human beings, all we want is to
Speaker 2: love and be loved and to have a positive impact.
Speaker 3: On just one person.
Speaker 2: In our lives, and that is one person whose life
Speaker 2: is being impacted in a positive way. And to know
Speaker 2: that there are so many more of those people out there,
Speaker 2: it's just like overwhelming for me in a really huge way.
Speaker 2: That's it's just so much bigger than myself. It's one
Speaker 2: of my proudest moments, and I think it was resonating
Speaker 2: with people because they hadn't seen someone like me before
Speaker 2: and someone was finally speaking to them, speaking at the
Speaker 2: very least a part of their language, like hitting something
Speaker 2: inside of them, touching something inside of them that hadn't
Speaker 2: been touched in quite that way before.
Speaker 1: There's still so many young queer people that are in
Speaker 1: the closet and that are looking for that inspiration, looking
Speaker 1: for that courage. What do you say to them?
Speaker 3: You have it inside of you.
Speaker 2: That courage is there, and everything inside of you will
Speaker 2: tell you when it's time. For me, it was that
Speaker 2: moment where staying the same became scarier than making the change.
Speaker 2: And that's going to look different for everyone, but everyone
Speaker 2: has that courage inside of them, and it's just the beginning,
Speaker 2: Like I get older and life just keeps getting better,
Speaker 2: and I want people to know that's what's in store
Speaker 2: for them, like this big, expansive, full, beautiful life.
Speaker 1: But We Loved is hosted by Me Jordan Gonsolvis. New
Speaker 1: episodes drop every Wednesday. If you want to write in
Speaker 1: to tell your story, email us at Buttweloved at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com, or send us a message on Instagram or
Speaker 1: TikTok at butt we Loved. We are a production of
Speaker 1: The Outspoken Podcast Network and iHeart Podcasts. But We Loved
Speaker 1: was originally developed with Pushkin Industries. Our producers Areshino Zaki,
Speaker 1: Michael June, Emily Meronoff, and Joey patt Our. Executive producers
Speaker 1: are Me, Maya Howard and Katrina Normal. Fact checking by
Speaker 1: Marisa Brown. Original music by Steve Bone special thanks to
Speaker 1: Jay Bronson and Roquel Willis. If you loved this episode,
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and follow us on Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: and Spotify, and thank you for listening. I'll see you
Speaker 1: next week.