1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: My name is Jacqueesse Thomas, and you're listening to Black Lit, 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: a podcast about Black literature and the stories behind the storytellers. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: When we talk about early African American literature, it's easy 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: to focus on books, the first novels, the first published poets, etc. However, 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: we now understand that the reality is much much broader. 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: Black literature in early America existed in letters, newspapers, and 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: even songs. So you have to look beyond the obvious, 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: and in these spaces we find some of the most 9 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: profound stories of resilience, connection, and self definition. It's the 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: writings passed from hand to hand, stories whispered from one 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: to another, and sometimes it's a friendship written in ink, 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: held on to for decades, surviving all odds. One such 13 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: story can be told in the letters between Philips, Sweetly 14 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: and Overturn. Now, Phyllis wrote many, many letters to different people, 15 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: but these letters, written over the course of six years, 16 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: are very special. Their correspondence offers us a rear glipse 17 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: into friendship, faith, and an intellectual exchange between two black 18 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: women who are enslaved at the height of the Revolutionary War. 19 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: I would never make a claim about a first African 20 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: American anything in this period, because there's a lot of 21 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: you know, oftentimes our ideas of oh, what is the 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: first novel to be written or the first story, those 23 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: are in flux and change often. One thing I would 24 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: say for Black literature in general is that we can't 25 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: understand Black literature if we focus just on books. You 26 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: have to look to other print media. So much literature 27 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 2: that's published in newspapers, for example, and we're thinking about 28 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: even songs and broadsides. There's a lot of other places 29 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: where African American literature happens that aren't books. Given how 30 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: much the landscape for early African American literature has changed 31 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: and shifted in the last couple of decades, the classes 32 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: that I teach now just wouldn't be possible for undergrad 33 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: me because I wouldn't have had the things to do them, 34 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have had access to the same texts, I 35 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: wouldn't have had access to the same resources. Every you know, 36 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: things are just different and changing all the time, and 37 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: sometimes there's a new rediscovery of a piece that shifts 38 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: how we teach and what we teach it with. So 39 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: those are super, super exciting and one of the things 40 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: that really kind of draws me to this field is 41 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: that possibility. There's always possibility in the black archive. 42 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: What is interesting and beautiful about these letters between these 43 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: two black women, between these two slaves, to be exact, 44 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: is that they share something beyond the ideas of survivor mode. 45 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: They were building a sisterhood while the world was burning 46 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: literally around them. The war wasn't some distant, unfathomable conflict. 47 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: It was smoldering right outside of their front doors, impossible 48 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: to ignore. But through all of this chaos, Phyllis and 49 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: Uber kept writing, kept sharing, both very aware of the 50 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: world around them, the community that they were building, the 51 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: care for each other, and the importance of communicating. 52 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: The closeness of their relationship. I think that really comes 53 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: out of the less and when you contrast them with 54 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 3: other letters she wrote, it's not that she doesn't say 55 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 3: what she thinks in her letters. It's just that there's 56 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: another dimension to that relationship that we don't get to 57 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: see elsewhere. And it should suggest to us that she 58 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 3: is not alone, that she has a what I call 59 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: it a cohort, a community. That the idea that she 60 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: could only have done this if she'd been isolated which 61 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: was kind of standard in the literature for a long time, 62 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 3: that she could only have been as studious and as 63 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: much of a as conversant with Anglo American literary culture 64 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: if she had not been part of a enslaved and 65 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: African community. I think that's nonsense, Like why can't we 66 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: imagine that she was code switching. Why can't we imagine 67 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 3: that she had a whole range of audiences and interlocutors. 68 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: And that's one of the things I want to convey, 69 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: and how sensitive she is to who she's talking about 70 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: and dealing with. We're talking about someone who has had 71 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: a cosmopolitan experience. We have no idea what her life 72 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 3: is like before she's eight, but many people who are 73 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: in the slave trade have experience a lot of locations 74 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: and are moved around a lot before they end up 75 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 3: where they end up. And she's highly likely one of 76 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: those people, even though she's only about eight years old 77 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 3: when she gets to Boston, and Boston is a place 78 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: where that's ten to fifteen percent African when she gets there, 79 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 3: and there's a particularly been an upswing of importation, so 80 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: there are a lot of enslaved people her age, and 81 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: a lot of those people are from different parts of 82 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: West Africa, and she knows that there are a lot 83 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 3: of different ways to connect to people. And so rather 84 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: than see her as having converted to a dominant culture, 85 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: I see her as someone who has realized that culture 86 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: is multiple and that there are different languages and she's 87 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: adept at learning them. So I argue that the neoclassical 88 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: literature is particularly important to her. And that's not instead 89 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: of the Christian stuff, it's in addition to and in 90 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: relationship to it. So if we think of those two 91 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: things as languages that she's completely able to riff on 92 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: so quickly, why would we think that she doesn't have 93 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: others that don't necessarily come out in the poetry, but 94 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 3: that we might get glimpses of in letters, or we 95 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: might get glimpses of from knowing who she's talking to 96 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 3: and where she was. So the political languages are others 97 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 3: for me. So what does this have to do with 98 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: obor isn't it interesting that they talk about their you 99 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: get glimpses into their mutual friends. And it's certainly clear 100 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: that Phyllis had traveled to Newport probably several times that 101 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: and her first poem is published in the newspaper there, 102 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: so there's some relationship between Newport and Boston and religious 103 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: folks and others there. It's clear that she knows some 104 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: of the people that Ober knows, and that they're aware 105 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 3: that there are people who travel between Newport and Boston 106 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: and Connecticut. So she's part of these wider black networks 107 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: which are connected to the Wheatly's networks, and ministers and 108 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: other folks you know who are referred to who carry 109 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: the letters, mister Babcock's servant, Ebenezer Pemberton, people who were 110 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: able to point to as being who they were. 111 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: I definitely like to think about them as being in community. 112 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: But even more than that, Like, what really interests me 113 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 4: is the kind of there's a tension between the public 114 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 4: and private. On the one hand, these letters between Uber 115 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 4: Tanner and Phyllis Wheatley have this air of intimacy because 116 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 4: it's in the genre of the letter, but then there's 117 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 4: also this kind of public performative part of it, because 118 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 4: there wasn't an expectation that this correspondence would just stay 119 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: between two people. And so then I'm thinking, like, so, 120 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 4: what were the real conversations like between Luthertanna and feel 121 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 4: this movie, like, that's what I want to know. So anyway, 122 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 4: that's kind of what I think about the relationship between 123 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: the two, that there's some part of it that we've 124 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 4: got to think about as an element of performativity, and 125 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 4: then there's some part of it that's more intimate, and 126 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 4: like I can't know which is which. 127 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 5: The letters are an interesting glimpse into the American colonial 128 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 5: landscape through the eyes of a friendship between two black 129 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 5: women who are also enslaved at times. Phil's Leatly, who's 130 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 5: based in Boston, and Obertanner, who is based in Newport. 131 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 5: And what we find by way of their letters is 132 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 5: that at various points they are made refugees. Boston is 133 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 5: under siege, so Latly has to leave in seventeen seventy five. 134 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 5: Newport will be under siege by the end of seventeen 135 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 5: seventy six, and uber China has to leave Newport. So 136 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 5: I think the Revolutionary War is a big deal to them, 137 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 5: especially since they're living in places where the Revolutionary War 138 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 5: is happening. It's not an abstract idea, it's not a 139 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 5: theoretical problem, it's a real life problem. I would also 140 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 5: say that what is important is the friendship as they articulated, 141 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 5: because there are a number of stories, a number of 142 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 5: answers to questions that we just can't get because they 143 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 5: already know one another, So questions like how do they 144 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 5: need I have no idea, and any of the other 145 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 5: kind of background questions, the letters don't provide answers to that. 146 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 5: But what the letters do do is kind of dig 147 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 5: into their friendship. 148 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: There is a theory that they meant on the passage 149 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: coming over, which would have solidified their connection. John Wheatley 150 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: was a merchant by trade. The two families could have 151 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: crossed paths at some point, a Newport, or any other 152 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: number of possibilities. The mystery on how their friendship was 153 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: initially formed will remain just that a mystery, but the 154 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: sentiment and the words she chose to send to Uber 155 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: can be felt and are meaningful. Considering there was a 156 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: war going on and all of the other circumstances, there 157 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: was definitely a sense to write with sincerity and intention. 158 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: On July nineteenth, seventeen seventy two, Wheatly writes. 159 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 6: Dear Uber, I have received your kind letter, and I'm 160 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 6: glad to hear of your welfare. I have been indisposed 161 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 6: for some time past, but through divine goodness, I am 162 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 6: somewhat better at present. I hope the correspondence between us 163 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 6: will continue, which may have the happy effect of improving 164 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 6: our mutual friendship. Till we meet in the region of 165 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 6: consummate blessedness. Let us endeavor, by the assistance of divine grace, 166 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 6: to live the life, and we shall die the death 167 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 6: of the righteous. May this be a happy case. I am, 168 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 6: dear friend, your affectionate sister. 169 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: This phrase draws from numbers twenty three to ten in 170 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: the Bible, where Balam expresses a desire to die the 171 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: death of the righteous. Wheatley uses this reference to emphasize 172 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: her aspiration for a virtuous life leading to a blessed afterlife. 173 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: She expresses her appreciation for Tanner's friendship and emphasizes the 174 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: importance of maintaining their correspondence to strengthen their bond. She 175 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: reflects on her recent illness and conveys her hope that 176 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: with divine assistance, they will lead righteous lives together and 177 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: ultimately attain eternal happiness, and we shall die the death 178 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: of the righteous. This letter highlights Wheatley's deep spirituality, her 179 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: relationship with the Bible and the value she placed on 180 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: enduring friendships. They wrote to hold on to each other, 181 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: to carve out a space where their voices mattered. And 182 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: we know that it mattered because Uber cherished this exchange. 183 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: She held on to it for nearly half a century 184 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: because they were important to her, and perhaps she also 185 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: knew how important they would be for others in the future. 186 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 6: For us, the. 187 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 5: Letters go from seventeen seventy two to seventeen seventy nine, 188 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 5: and Ubertanna holds on to the letters until the early 189 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 5: eighteen thirties, until right before she dies, and then she 190 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 5: gives them to her pastor's wife. And I think that 191 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 5: that's an important kind of testament to the relationship that 192 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 5: she has weekly and also her own sense of her 193 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 5: legacy and wanting to make sure that Wheatly's story is 194 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 5: told alongside her own. So she hands off the letters 195 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 5: to her pastor's wife, Kavin eith Feacher, who thirty years 196 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 5: later and he is eighteen sixty three, gives them to 197 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 5: her nephew in law, who then gives them the Charles Dean, 198 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 5: who works for the Massachusetts Historical Society, which is why 199 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 5: we can read the letters today. 200 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: This was more than just her friendship, more than even sisterhood. 201 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: This was legacy building. Wheatley wasn't just writing to connect. 202 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: She was playing chess in a world that tried to 203 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: keep her off the She sent poems to people in 204 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: power not just because she believed in them, but because 205 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: she wanted to be seen. She knew the value of 206 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: her work. She knew that her words had the strength 207 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: of immortality. She knew she was worthy, and she very 208 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: well knew the game. 209 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 7: Well, why did she choose to write Washington? She could 210 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 7: have created poetry and she could have wrote to other people. 211 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 7: Why did she choose to write the Secretary of North America? 212 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 7: Who was this dude England sit Over to be like 213 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 7: the person responsible for all of North America? Why did 214 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 7: she use George Whitfield's rhetoric Earth in seventeen seventy to 215 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 7: write one of her most popular poems and then specifically 216 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 7: take that poem and send it to the Countess of Huntington, 217 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 7: who is in the Hastens in order to kind of 218 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 7: get a financial beneficiary and to get someone she She 219 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 7: had rhetorical goals, aims, and desires and strategy, so a 220 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 7: lot of us think when she writes these people and 221 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 7: you know, some of these people are slave owners, and 222 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 7: she's not saying anything about slavery. It's all about like Christianity. 223 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 7: I think that a lot of it was her trying 224 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 7: to get herself in front of people who she felt 225 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 7: had some power, right, and we kind of knew. I 226 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 7: was thinking about how power is going to be played out, 227 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 7: whether or not England was in control of North America, 228 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 7: or whether or not the Americans will be in control 229 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 7: of North America, whomever. Right, she wanted to put herself 230 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 7: in front of those people, perhaps that she would be 231 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 7: the example, right, you know, an African person willing to 232 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 7: be part of the colonial American society, part of the 233 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 7: American society post revolution and one vein but also too 234 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 7: in this sense that you know, she felt that she 235 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 7: had something to say, not necessarily for those people at 236 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 7: that particular time, but for us. 237 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: Right. 238 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 7: And one of the ways that we think about if 239 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 7: African American rhetorical practices have been in part uniquely signified 240 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 7: to or connected to abolitionism, right, one of the most 241 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 7: important twos of abolitionism is that you don't write simply 242 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 7: for yourself to be free, but for the next generation 243 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 7: of people to live in a more prosperous society. So 244 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 7: my thinking too is that she's trying to define a 245 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 7: moral authority that would far exceed her temporer time on earth. 246 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 7: She wanted to leave a lasting rhetorical and written record 247 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 7: to how she tried to how she labored, what her 248 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 7: vocation was. And so I think that she, like so 249 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 7: many Africans in this particular period, so many African Americans 250 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 7: in this particular period, began to kind of think about 251 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,479 Speaker 7: ways in which they can produce written records. 252 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 4: In fact, Phillis Whitey only published one volume, a forward you, 253 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 4: but she tried to publish the second one, but you know, 254 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 4: there was a little thing like the revolution, that war, 255 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: that kind of you know. And so when shed an 256 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: advertisement for that second volume, she listed a table of contents, 257 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 4: and in her table of contents it was a series 258 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 4: of letters that she was including as part of her 259 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 4: second volume. So that tells me that when Phyllis Wheatley 260 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 4: was doing her letter correspondence, there was some part of 261 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 4: it where she was thinking these letters might be for 262 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 4: public consumption. And so then that makes me think, how 263 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 4: does one do that, Like, how do you write a 264 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 4: letter and balance the private and the public. 265 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: Not by choice, but she always had two audiences in mind, 266 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: one the white people who might publish her in two 267 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: the black people who would truly understand. And so, like 268 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: every great poet, she wrote with layered texts, with words 269 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: that would carry the truth for those who needed it 270 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: while still being respectable. 271 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 7: African American people have at least have always had to 272 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 7: be speaking to at least two audiences right trying to 273 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 7: think about their identity themselves, especially if other black people 274 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 7: will be reading it. They're thinking about that particular audience, 275 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 7: but they're also concerning themselves with their survival life line. 276 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: You are listening to Black lit when they say that 277 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: the Bible was used to keep black folks in chains, 278 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: but Phyllis flipped it back on them. She didn't swallow 279 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: the version of Christianity that said know your place. She 280 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: read deeper, looked harder, and found her own faith, a 281 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: faith that called slavery what it was. 282 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 7: And in seventeen seventy four, for instance, she wrote a 283 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 7: letter to Samson Acum, who is a Native American Presbyterian 284 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 7: minister who also goes to London prior to Weekly and 285 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 7: he'd written about the treatment of enslaved Africans, and she 286 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 7: writes him alert and says, thank you for your advocacy 287 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 7: for black people. And she says that everything I write, 288 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 7: and of course I'm paraphrasing and summarizing here, but she says, 289 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 7: everything I write, I do not for their hurt, but 290 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 7: to convince them of the strange ascertainty of their actions 291 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 7: and conducts, which is diametrically opposite. 292 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: In this letter, Wheatley eloquently critiques the hypocrisy of those 293 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: who advocate for liberty while oppressing others, drawing parallels between 294 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: the plight of enslaved Africans and the Israelites in Egypt. 295 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 8: She writes, for in every human breast God has implanted 296 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 8: a principle which we call love of freedom. It is 297 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 8: impatient of oppression and pants for deliverance. And by the 298 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 8: leave of our modern Egyptians, I will assert that the 299 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 8: same principle lives in us. God grants deliverance in his 300 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 8: own way and time, and get him honor upon all 301 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 8: those whose avarice impels them to countenance and help forward 302 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 8: the calamities of their fellow creatures. This I desire not 303 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 8: for their hurts, but to convince them of the strange 304 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 8: absurdity of their conduct, whose words and actions are so 305 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 8: diametrically opposite, how well the cry for liberty and the 306 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 8: reverse disposition of their exercise of oppressive power over others 307 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 8: degree I humbly think it does not require the penetration 308 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 8: of philosopher to determine. 309 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 7: So therefore, she's very mindful that people are using Christianity, 310 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 7: using faith to say that African people should be enslaved, 311 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 7: that they need to be controlled, that they're violent xyz. 312 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 7: And she said that I don't see this in the 313 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 7: literature that I'm reading about God. I don't see this right. 314 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 7: And thus she's revising that narrative about how she's assessing 315 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 7: her faith. And she goes on, I think with that 316 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 7: particular perspective, which I think would make her feel that 317 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 7: she's the one who's in the superior position, that she's 318 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 7: the one who has been author to offer an education 319 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 7: and to moralize, if you will, people who are less 320 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 7: learned on the tenets of Christianity. 321 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: Isn't it interesting that she gets political in that wonderful 322 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 3: letter which she talks about the hypocrisy of of the 323 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 3: modern Egyptians, and who is she talking about it? She's 324 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 3: talking about the British. Who are the modern Egyptians of 325 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: the British, of the Americans? Are they both like that? 326 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: We only have it because somebody chose to take it 327 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 3: out of her letter and put it in the newspapers 328 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 3: where it gets reprinted. But that shows us so we 329 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: have no idea. She may have written dozens or hundreds 330 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 3: of letters that we don't have right or said different 331 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 3: things to different people. She's trying things out. She doesn't 332 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 3: know what's going to happen next, who's going to win 333 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: the war, and all these things. And so this is 334 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 3: the wind into her practice all the way through, from 335 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 3: the beginning, all the way to the end. And so 336 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: often we've wanted to say, oh, she's she throws in 337 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: her lot with the Patriots and things don't work out 338 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: for her in its drag, or she has these kinds 339 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: of ideas. This is what she thinks about white people, 340 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: or this is what she thinks about the patriots, or 341 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 3: this is what she thinks about Christianity, like as if 342 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: she's not someone who's like saying different things to different people, 343 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 3: and it's evolving depending on what she thinks is possible, 344 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 3: and she doesn't know what's going to happen next. It's 345 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 3: because we know so little that the chronology is and 346 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 3: are missing so much, and the life is so relatively short, right, 347 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: that the chronology is important. And it's actually the paying 348 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 3: attention to that where we can see her making decisions 349 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: and choosing to do certain things at certain times in 350 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 3: certain situations. And for me, that proves both that how 351 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 3: deliberate she is and how creative she is, but also 352 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 3: how political she is. 353 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: And Wheatley wasn't alone in this fight. Black writers, preachers, 354 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: and thinkers were flipping the script everywhere, challenging these so 355 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: called men of God at every turn. 356 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 7: That's why the nineteenth century looks like it look. And 357 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 7: slavery would come to an end in the eighteen sixties 358 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 7: in part because per slavery advocates would be the members 359 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 7: of Congress and all these other people, but they would 360 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 7: continuously use religion. Right as the two suggest that African 361 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 7: people were enslave. But you have so many African American 362 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 7: people and some I guess you know Anglo American people 363 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 7: writing at the time as well, would you know challenge 364 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 7: against that and say that you know the way that 365 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 7: they see faith, Christianity or Islam, because Islam is very 366 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 7: important in early America too. The way that they are 367 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 7: seeing these faith kind of the way that they read them, 368 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 7: would suggest that slavery shouldn't be a part of God's children. 369 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: Wheatley wasn't begging for approval. She was teaching and holding 370 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: up a mirror, making them see their own contradictions. And 371 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: it is in that act that she reclaimed her power. 372 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: The letters feel deeply personal, but they weren't meant to 373 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: be hidden. Back then, letters weren't private like text messages 374 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: are today. They passed through hands and were copied and 375 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: were sometimes even published. Phyllis knew this. She expected her 376 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: words to last, and. 377 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 5: I think as of right now, what makes the friendship 378 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 5: important is that currently the only documented by way of 379 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 5: letters friendship between two black women who were also enslaved. 380 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: Uber didn't just hold on to Phyllis's letters. She made 381 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: sure that they survived so that we could read them today. 382 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: That's the thing about black joy. It persists. Even in 383 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, when the world told them that they 384 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: were nothing, Phyllis and Uber built something undeniable. They wrote 385 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: themsel into history. In history for once held on to them. 386 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: Special thanks to all of the guests on today's episode 387 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: in order that you heard their voices. Bridget Fielder, David Wallsheiser, 388 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: Cassie Smith, Tara a Bidam, Elima Shabaz reading the Letters 389 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: by Phillip Sweetley and Don Holmes. 390 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 3: Black Lit is a. 391 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: Black Effect original series in partnership with I Heart Media. 392 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: Is written and created by myself Jack Queise Thomas and 393 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: executive produced alongside Dolly s Bishop. Chanelle Collins is the 394 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: director of Production, Head of Talent Nicole Spence, writer producer 395 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: Jason Torres, Our researcher and producer is Jabari Davis, and 396 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: the mix and sound design is by the humble Duane Crawford. 397 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: Gratitude is an action, so I have to give praise 398 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: to those who took the time out to write review. 399 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: Please keep sharing and we will promise to bring more 400 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: writers and greater episodes to you. Also, if you're looking 401 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: to become a writer or in search of a supportive 402 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: writing community, join me for a free creative writing session 403 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: on my website Black writers Room dot com, b LK 404 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: Writer's Room dot com, or hit me up directly for 405 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: more details at underscore t h A T S P 406 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: E a c E. 407 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 6: That's peace.