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Speaker 1: Bushkin. Hey everyone, it's me Wi Kamala Bell.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the second I guess, second week third episode

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Speaker 2: of Who's with Me, my new podcast brought to you

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Speaker 2: by Pushkin Productions and Rabbagren Productions and me w kamal

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Speaker 2: Bell not a production. Well, I guess I am anyway,

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Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Welcome to Week two, Episode three.

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Speaker 2: Thank you to all the kind words you said about

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Speaker 2: the two episodes that dropped last week, Delroy Lindo and

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Speaker 2: my congress Foman Latifa Simon. It's really happy to do

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Speaker 2: those episodes. Happy to record them in Oakland because it's

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Speaker 2: fairly near my house. Shout out to Skyline Studios. This

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Speaker 2: podcast is really a bit a dream come true. It's

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Speaker 2: me having conversation with people in ways I want to

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Speaker 2: have them about the things I want to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate everybody responding to those shout outs at

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Speaker 2: the end where you find out about the things that

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Speaker 2: these people care about. Delroy and Latifa. Jessica White's my

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Speaker 2: contact at the ACLU, said that when Delroy Lindo says

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Speaker 2: my name, it sounds gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: Mission accomplished that I got Delroy Linda to say my name.

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Speaker 2: It really is quite an honor to talk to Delroy

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Speaker 2: because I know him a little bit. But I really

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Speaker 2: felt like we connected in ways we wouldn't have connected

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Speaker 2: if we hadn't had that podcast. And with Latifa, I

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Speaker 2: just feel like, again, I want her to be more

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Speaker 2: out there in the world. I want her to be

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Speaker 2: the center of the Democratic Party. And I know she's

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Speaker 2: got a plan, and I'm happy for to stick to

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Speaker 2: the plan, but I was happy to get her out

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Speaker 2: there too many of me for the first time. This week,

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Speaker 2: my guest is Ted Danson, So I think Ted would.

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Speaker 1: Think it was okay.

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Speaker 2: Super black in week one, Latifa, Simon delro Lindo, super

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Speaker 2: white guy in week two, Ted Danson. But Ted Danson

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Speaker 2: is more than a white guy. He's actually more than

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Speaker 2: just a super white white guy. He's a super super

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Speaker 2: white white guy. He's great. So you'll hear me talk

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Speaker 2: with this episode how important Ted Danson's comedy career has

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Speaker 2: been to me and for those of you who are young,

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Speaker 2: or for those of you who forgot, TV used to

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Speaker 2: really be a thing in this country. And if a

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Speaker 2: show was a hit show, millions of Americans all watched

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Speaker 2: it at the same time, and Ted Danson was on

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Speaker 2: one of those shows, Cheers, in the eighties and into

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Speaker 2: the early nineties, and it was a show that millions

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Speaker 2: of Americans tuned in.

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Speaker 1: I just looked it up.

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Speaker 2: The last episode of Cheers, the series finale that wrapped

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Speaker 2: out the whole series, forty two million households tuned in.

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Speaker 2: Apparently it was like ninety million people, so like thirty

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Speaker 2: to forty percent of the country was watching the last

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Speaker 2: episode of Cheers.

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Speaker 1: That.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we don't get those numbers, what

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Speaker 2: super Bowl and not much else right now. So that's

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Speaker 2: how big of a cultural impact the show Cheers made.

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Speaker 2: How famous that the stars in that show were Ted Danson,

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Speaker 2: Shelley Long. That lady was that other lady's name, Christy Ally.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what I think about it. I wasn't think

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Speaker 2: about ree perl about that lady, Christy Alley. It was

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Speaker 2: a huge show. I can't if you're if you weren't

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Speaker 2: there for it, or you didn't watch it, you don't.

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Speaker 2: I can't even describe you how big that show was.

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Speaker 2: It was part of the Musty TV with the Cosby

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Speaker 2: Show in a different world, and they always had a

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Speaker 2: show that was after Cheers and never lasted very long,

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Speaker 2: but it was a huge moment. Thursday Nights on NBC

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Speaker 2: and Ted Danson sat down with me. Now, I met

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Speaker 2: Ted when he invited me to to his podcast where

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Speaker 2: Everybody Knows Your Name, a podcast he does with Con

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Speaker 2: o'bryan's network. And when I got the email that said

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Speaker 2: Ted Danson want you on his podcast, was it was

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Speaker 2: like finding out Santa Claus was real.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know Ted Danson knew who I was.

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Speaker 2: We had a great time on his podcast, and it

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Speaker 2: was interesting because on his podcast towards the end, I

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Speaker 2: said something about something to the effect of like, I

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Speaker 2: really appreciate the fact that you, as a white man,

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Speaker 2: know how to admit when you're wrong, And me and

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Speaker 2: Ted had a moment when I said that that he

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Speaker 2: knew what I was talking about and I knew what

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Speaker 2: he was talking about, and we didn't say any more

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Speaker 2: about it, and later I was like, did we really

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Speaker 2: have that moment? But today I was confirmed in this

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Speaker 2: episode that we did have that moment. A big part

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Speaker 2: of this episode, in addition talking about Ted Dance's career

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Speaker 2: and the craft of his work and organizations he wants

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Speaker 2: us to support is about a very famous event that

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Speaker 2: happened in nineteen ninety three where Ted Danson was a

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Speaker 2: part of a Friar club's roast of Whoopee Goldberg and

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Speaker 2: roast these Days. I had no idea when he taped

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Speaker 2: this episode that kyedy roast would be all in the news.

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Speaker 2: But they are all in the news. Specifically won the

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Speaker 2: roast of Kevin Hart on Netflix. It has become a

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Speaker 2: huge news story. Kevin Hart was on The Breakfast Club

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Speaker 2: last week explaining why he did the roast and why

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Speaker 2: he wasn't offended by the jokes at the roast. And

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Speaker 2: I had already taped this conversation with Ted dance and

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Speaker 2: about a roast that he was a part of where

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Speaker 2: he did feel like afterwards he needed to apologize. So

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Speaker 2: I was just giveingu a little bit of context, like,

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Speaker 2: sit down, old man, come out. I was gonna explain

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Speaker 2: to you what the nineties were like. So in the nineties,

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Speaker 2: Ted Danson and will By Goldberg started a love affair,

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Speaker 2: a relationship I didn't realize until Ted brought it up.

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Speaker 2: Ted actually apparently cheated on his first wife, not Mary

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Speaker 2: Steen Virgin, not Mary Stein Virgin. Just so you don't

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Speaker 2: think it's Mary Steen virgin. He cheated on his first

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Speaker 2: wife and started dating Whoopy Goldberg and it became like

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Speaker 2: a huge relationship. I don't know what to compare it

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Speaker 2: to for you young people, for millennials, Remember Jalo and Ben

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Speaker 2: Affleck the first time? Okay for you gen z. Remember

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Speaker 2: Jalo and Ben Affleck the second time? Or no, for

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Speaker 2: you gen z. Remember when Ariana Grande was dating Pete Davidson.

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Speaker 2: It was like that, except not as so Ted Dancing

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Speaker 2: and Whoope Goldberg. Ted Danson was a huge comedy star

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Speaker 2: because of Cheers was like one of the biggest shows

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Speaker 2: on TV. Woopy Goldberg was a movie star, one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest actresses in the country and a big comedian.

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Speaker 2: They dated for a little while, and it was like

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Speaker 2: TMZ before TMZ. They were like in all the celebrity

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Speaker 2: gossip rags about their relationship and again, and it started

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Speaker 2: out of an affair, but they dated for a while

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Speaker 2: and apparently at one point the Friars Club said they

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Speaker 2: wanted to roast will Be Goldberg, and of course they

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Speaker 2: wanted Ted Danson to be there because that relationship was

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Speaker 2: a big ticket and everybody was talking about it. So

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Speaker 2: they're at the roast. The roast is happy with the

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Speaker 2: way Rose happened. Comedians going to stage, they say horrible

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Speaker 2: things about woo Bee Goldberg.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there. I just know how Rose happened.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure they were racists and sexists, but they were

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Speaker 2: all sort of in the bounds of what happens to

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Speaker 2: the roast. Also, again, this is a Friars club in

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Speaker 2: the nineties, so it's not being broadcast outside the room.

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Speaker 2: But then apparently Ted goes up. And when Ted goes up,

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Speaker 2: he's not just doing a stand up comedy act. He

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Speaker 2: has like a whole act he's created, and he's got

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Speaker 2: on blackface, and he's decided he's gonna do jokes where

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Speaker 2: he uses the N word, because at the time, Woopy

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Speaker 2: Goldberg and her act was using the N word as

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Speaker 2: the way to try to take power away.

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Speaker 1: So he thought, oh, I'll do it too, I'll say

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Speaker 1: the INN word.

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Speaker 2: It'll be funny, it'll be ira, it'll be satirical, it'll

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Speaker 2: be like, you know, Lenny Bruce meets young Richard Pryor.

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Speaker 2: I don't know he thought he was doing something satirical,

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Speaker 2: but he said as soon as he walked on stage,

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Speaker 2: the crowd saw the blackface. He started his thing, he

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Speaker 2: sucks to say the inWORD. He realized this is not satirical,

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Speaker 2: it's not edgy, it's just offensive. But because he's a

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Speaker 2: performer in the show, much go on. I guess he

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Speaker 2: finished it and he said he didn't even get to

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Speaker 2: the end before people are running out the room to

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Speaker 2: go tell everybody, And he mentions one person specifically that

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Speaker 2: I'll let him talk about. But yeah, so I never

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Speaker 2: thought I had to say this sentence. There's a difference

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Speaker 2: between what Ted Danson did at the Friars Club in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three in blackface saying the in word, and

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Speaker 2: what Tonyhnscliffe did at the Kevin Hart roast where he

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Speaker 2: condemned George Floyd to hell. It's that one person has

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Speaker 2: a heart and feels regret and understands that we live

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Speaker 2: in a society and even if you meant one thing,

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Speaker 2: if it came off the other way, that you got

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Speaker 2: to own that and be a part of that, and

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Speaker 2: also understands that, like maybe don't define yourself by your job.

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Speaker 2: I'm a comedian. No, define yourself by your humanity. I'm

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Speaker 2: a human and if what I did didn't go over, well,

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Speaker 2: I can say I'm sorry and move on and learn

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Speaker 2: and evolved from it. And I wish that more people

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Speaker 2: did that, especially white people.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 3: I can't hope for Tony Hanscliffs do that anyway. I

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Speaker 3: want to say his name, feel like I'm saying Voldemort anyway.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy Ted dancing me and Ted dancing. I have three

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Speaker 3: daughters and one of them gave me this to claim

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Speaker 3: her space. Hey, let me read it again, says my

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Speaker 3: favorite child gave me this cup. So I have three daughters.

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Speaker 3: One of them gave me this cup, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: that's that's that's bold.

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Speaker 4: We have three girls and a boy.

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Speaker 2: We did not we did. We opted out a boy,

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Speaker 2: not that we actively did. I just think I, well

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe inside my body I actively did.

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Speaker 4: H but I want to be surrounded by women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had.

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Speaker 2: We had our first daughter, who's now fourteen, and that

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Speaker 2: went well. So my wife got and I thought one, I'm.

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Speaker 1: An only child, which I don't know if you know

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Speaker 1: that about me. So I had we had one.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that's great, and my wife one of four,

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Speaker 2: She's like, no, we have to have more only children.

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Speaker 1: Are weird. And I was like, but she's like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't what I'm talking about. I did

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Speaker 2: not stutter. So then we had two and I was

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Speaker 2: like another girl. And then I told me the third.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this has got to be a girl

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Speaker 2: because I feel like I kind of understand how this goes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm grateful for all the girls and granddaughters

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Speaker 4: in my life.

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Speaker 2: I uh, And I know there's people even in this

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Speaker 2: in this in the studio who have boys. But I'm

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Speaker 2: just very happy that, like in the current state of

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Speaker 2: the world, I feel like as a man I can

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Speaker 2: give my girls. I can give them like the state

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Speaker 2: secrets on boys and men, whereas if I had boys,

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Speaker 2: I'd be like.

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Speaker 4: You also, you also give them self esteem? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: fathers who understand that, Yeah, they're golden.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's it's very much like you are your own person.

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Speaker 2: And if you want to add, like I have my

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Speaker 2: daughter's fourteen now, so this is not we're expected to

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Speaker 2: start this podcast here.

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Speaker 4: But we've got the women's demographic.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, we can move on very cynically.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to sew up the women's demographic before I

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Speaker 2: started the podcast.

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Speaker 1: This was a citicle move.

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Speaker 2: Let me let me uh actually, I just want to

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Speaker 2: make sure to have the Mano sphere demographic.

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Speaker 5: Will be clear about that, well I do if you

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Speaker 5: do it ted.

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Speaker 2: Dancing mainly man uh. So, thank you for coming here,

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Speaker 2: thank you for doing this, thank you. This is uh

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Speaker 2: who knows how this will all air, but you are

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Speaker 2: my first guest.

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Speaker 1: On the podcast.

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Speaker 4: That's so cool.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so first, I like to start by podcast

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Speaker 2: by giving people their flowers, by giving people their like

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Speaker 2: it was giving their flowers as a way to say,

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Speaker 2: here are things that I like about you that I'm

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Speaker 2: impressed about you and your person who loves compliments.

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Speaker 1: I know that about you.

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Speaker 4: Gosh, that's all over the the internet. Yeah yeah it's true.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, it relaxes me so good.

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Speaker 2: Well, so I just want to say personally, so, I

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Speaker 2: was born in nineteen seventy three, so when the eighties hit,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I'm starting to be like a

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Speaker 2: kid who understands saying so by the time Cheers airs,

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Speaker 2: I've been a TV watcher for many years and Cheers starts,

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Speaker 2: and that's just like me and my mom's appointment television,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and we lived in Boston, oh well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so you know. Also it was legally we had to yes,

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Speaker 2: and so Cheers taught me. It was one of one

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Speaker 2: of the early ways in which I learned about comedy

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Speaker 2: and how comedy works.

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Speaker 1: Actually. To get ready for this, I watched the first

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Speaker 1: episode of Cheers, which I hadn't seen. Wow, I don't

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Speaker 1: know when it's certainly not in thirty years, you know.

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Speaker 2: And first of all, I was impressed with how well

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Speaker 2: it held up as a comedy piece of comedy, like

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Speaker 2: it's like it's really written quite tightly, but also how

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Speaker 2: modern it also felt. I don't know if you remember

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Speaker 2: the first shot of Cheers. Do you remember what the

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Speaker 2: very first shot of Cheers is on the very first episode?

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Speaker 4: Well, was there a teaser? Did a kid come in?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: That's again.

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Speaker 2: But even before that, it's a shot of you walking

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Speaker 2: through the bar, just sort of like getting ready to

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Speaker 2: open the bar. And it's very quiet. It's very sort

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Speaker 2: of like with the melancholy Cheers music behind it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it feels like something you would do now. But

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Speaker 2: in the early eighties it felt like that was pretty unique,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like it's not a thing.

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Speaker 2: Back then, it was like jokes jokes, jokes, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: so it's shot in a very modern way, which I

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Speaker 2: was very impressed with. So that so you Ted Danson

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Speaker 2: as a character Samuel from Cheers was like one of

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Speaker 2: my defining comedic elements of my early life. Like I

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Speaker 2: would say, like that was something that made me go, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is comedy. That's my favorite character that I hope

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Speaker 2: to be a Sam Malone someday that didn't work out,

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Speaker 2: probably for the thank god, yes exactly. My wife was

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Speaker 2: a pagan name of that. But as a young man

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Speaker 2: who was like I think I like this, I think

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Speaker 2: I like girls. That was my goal. But then the

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Speaker 2: thing that is so impressed with me about you now

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Speaker 2: is that I told so my eighty eight year old mom,

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Speaker 2: who used to watch Cheers with I, said I'm going

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Speaker 2: to talk to ted Dance and she got excited. My wife,

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Speaker 2: who's whose age will remain unsaid, was like, I can't

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Speaker 2: believe You're going to talk to Ted Dancer for the

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Speaker 2: second time and I'm not going to meet him.

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Speaker 1: Like she was like, you've talked to him twice and

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Speaker 1: I haven't.

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Speaker 4: She's she's okay, here's a future podcast. Okay, mine are yours?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Your wife and my wife and you and me. OKAYU,

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Speaker 4: that's fun to do. That is fun to do. That

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Speaker 4: is funny.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So we're booking spinoffs. As a man in

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Speaker 2: show business, you understand the power of spinoffs. And then this,

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Speaker 2: and then the third thing. My fourteen year old daughter

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Speaker 2: was excited. I was talking to you, so I like, that's.

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Speaker 4: A you know, yeah, that's quite a span.

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Speaker 2: That's quite a span. Yeah, I will say this. I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to Ted Danson. She said, who's Ted dancing?

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Speaker 2: And I said, Michael from the Good Place. She's like, oh, so,

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Speaker 2: like she didn't have your name, but she immediately knew

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Speaker 2: who you were. And I don't know if you remember,

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Speaker 2: but last time I talked to you, she hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: the Good Place yet, and you asked me about it,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, she might be ready.

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Speaker 1: So I went home.

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Speaker 2: She went through the whole thing, and it is now

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Speaker 2: one of those things that exists with her for her

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Speaker 2: in the same way it does for me. As one

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Speaker 2: of the great TV statements of all times.

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Speaker 1: What I agreed?

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Speaker 4: What twelve?

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Speaker 1: How old is she fourteen? Now?

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Speaker 4: Fourteen? That is the age. Yes, they really appre people

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Speaker 4: really appreciate that they're starting to formulate what they find

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Speaker 4: funny and life their sense of humor, but they're also

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Speaker 4: getting ethics and yes, and it's described just you know,

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Speaker 4: it's hidden by nine year old fart humor and effects, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and everything, but it's about something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really cool.

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Speaker 2: And to me as a parent, it makes me feel like, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: my daughter has a good sense of humor because she

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Speaker 2: likes a good place like it's you know, there are

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Speaker 2: lots of things your kids might like that you have

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Speaker 2: judgments about. But it made me go, I'm raising a smart,

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Speaker 2: cool kid who understands that kind of humor, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean. And then one of the things I

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Speaker 2: was talking about today is is how you have created

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Speaker 2: this career longevity and that like when I looked up

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Speaker 2: your IMDb, there are shows that you did more than

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Speaker 2: one hundred episodes of that probably wouldn't make your like

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Speaker 2: short bio, you know what I mean. Like, so we

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Speaker 2: said send me a fifty word biotide dance, And there

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Speaker 2: are shows that you've done that have gone into syndication

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Speaker 2: that you'd be like, well, for fifty words, I can't

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Speaker 2: include this one, you know what I mean? So just

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Speaker 2: the idea that you've been able to as someone who's

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Speaker 2: constantly trying to figure out how to stay in this

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Speaker 2: business and what road actually taking this business, I can't help.

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Speaker 2: I just can't help but be odd by the career

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Speaker 2: longevity that you've had. And it's certainly been some this

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Speaker 2: but it has been steady the whole way. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: as somebody who's now in the middle of my career,

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Speaker 2: firmly in the middle trying to figure out like how

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Speaker 2: much longer do I work? Will I have work? Will

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Speaker 2: I be available? Will will I be able to sustain

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Speaker 2: my life? And all these things, to look at you

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Speaker 2: as somebody who's like many, if not most, people who

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Speaker 2: had who were big in the eighties are not still

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Speaker 2: impressing fourteen year olds.

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Speaker 1: So there's something you're doing, is I've been.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm part of that. Yeah, I'm part of that equation. Yes, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: And it's the writing you know, no, no, And I

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Speaker 4: give myself cred for, you know, being smart enough to

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Speaker 4: find those writers and be part of that creative experience.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I've been. I've been. My career has been

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Speaker 4: rescued and rejuvenated several times by brilliant writers. But let

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Speaker 4: me go back and just say, please thank your family,

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Speaker 4: okay for that and the fact that they felt that

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Speaker 4: way is I'm letting in. I am so chuffed. It

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Speaker 4: means a lot to me. Yeah, it really does. I

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Speaker 4: appreciate it. I have so much respect for you. Thank you,

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Speaker 4: and that obviously you know the reason why I respect

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Speaker 4: for you probably becomes some of your mother and your

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Speaker 4: wife and your children. Yes, you know who inform you.

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Speaker 4: So I genuinely mean that, Thank you. Man. It means

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Speaker 4: a lot. So pass that on.

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Speaker 2: I will, I will, I will pass that on because

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Speaker 2: I think it does. It does mean a lot to them,

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Speaker 2: and it means a lot to me. And it means

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Speaker 2: a lot to me to be able to say it

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Speaker 2: to you, to be able to tell you that, because

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of times in this in this business,

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Speaker 2: in this life, you sort of like these you have

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Speaker 2: these conversations with people in your head, but you don't

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Speaker 2: know that you're ever going to have them in life.

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Speaker 2: And I've really tried to part of this podcast is

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Speaker 2: me like getting people in the chair that I feel

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Speaker 2: like I wanted to let lets this person know what

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Speaker 2: they mean to me personally, even if I've never met

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Speaker 2: them before.

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Speaker 4: So okay, so it's not that I'm going to give

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Speaker 4: you flowers, but please But you know this because we

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Speaker 4: sat down and you were on Where Everybody Is your

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Speaker 4: Name early on the podcast. I do so and what

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Speaker 4: he does. But for me, I have seen you for

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Speaker 4: many years and one of the things I always question

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Speaker 4: about myself is I know I'm nice and sweet and

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Speaker 4: thoughtful and you know, caring, and I put out a

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Speaker 4: good thing. But nowadays I asked myself, is that enough

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Speaker 4: in this world we're living in? And I've always looked

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Speaker 4: at you and gone, oh, here's somebody who's really funny,

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Speaker 4: really thoughtful. You make me laugh. But you have so

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Speaker 4: much courage to stick yourself into the mayhem that we

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Speaker 4: live in and still be that person you are, which

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Speaker 4: is you know, you have kindness reeking from your pores,

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Speaker 4: and you still have that while you're out there being courageous.

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Speaker 4: And I'd always check myself. I don't use you to

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Speaker 4: beat myself up, but I do, But I you know,

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Speaker 4: do wonder ted are you? Are you so non confronted

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Speaker 4: that you are making a mistake here by not jumping

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Speaker 4: on the barricades like you do and like Jane Fonda,

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Speaker 4: does you know, is it okay to be me? Anyway?

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Speaker 4: So I love that I'm sitting here with you back

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Speaker 4: to you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, first of all, it is okay because it

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Speaker 1: is okay to be you.

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Speaker 2: Think let's be cool about that. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: get you away going. He didn't tell me it was

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Speaker 2: okay to be me. But I think the thing I

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Speaker 2: think about it is that we all have different roles

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Speaker 2: to play here in whatever this is. I think, roles

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Speaker 2: in our careers and then roles in like what I

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Speaker 2: would now say firmly is like saving the country by

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Speaker 2: extension the world, but like certainly the country. I just

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Speaker 2: I was on a panel that south by Southwest was

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Speaker 2: Jane Fonda, and I was also impressed with like she's

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Speaker 2: the same age as my mom, and just how how

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Speaker 2: kinetic she is and how like how fervent she is,

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Speaker 2: and how clear minded she is, and how that's been

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Speaker 2: her the whole way that I've known her in my life,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that it hasn't she doesn't seem to

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Speaker 2: have backed off. She was on her way to Minneapolis.

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Speaker 2: I think she's going to do no kings in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like. But I think the thing that

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Speaker 2: I would say is that you know, we all have

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Speaker 2: different ways that we do this. Not everybody wants to

428
00:20:39,944 --> 00:20:41,944
Speaker 2: go against the barricades, and not everybody even has the

429
00:20:41,984 --> 00:20:44,664
Speaker 2: ability to go against the barricades for various reasons. And

430
00:20:44,664 --> 00:20:47,744
Speaker 2: and the thing I always hold on too, as long

431
00:20:47,784 --> 00:20:51,464
Speaker 2: as we feel like we're not getting comfortable in whatever

432
00:20:51,504 --> 00:20:53,704
Speaker 2: we're doing, Like, as long as we're sort of every

433
00:20:53,704 --> 00:20:55,544
Speaker 2: now and again going like, let me put myself in

434
00:20:55,584 --> 00:20:57,944
Speaker 2: a position, let me make sure I'm speaking out in

435
00:20:58,304 --> 00:21:00,704
Speaker 2: enough in ways to make me feel like I'm not

436
00:21:00,824 --> 00:21:02,664
Speaker 2: taking that I'm not doing it to take an easy

437
00:21:02,704 --> 00:21:05,704
Speaker 2: way out, sort of the idea of like, at some point,

438
00:21:06,104 --> 00:21:07,624
Speaker 2: maybe you're afraid to and I don't know if you're

439
00:21:07,664 --> 00:21:09,664
Speaker 2: on social media like this, but at some point people

440
00:21:09,664 --> 00:21:11,824
Speaker 2: are like, I'm gonna put Black as Matter up on

441
00:21:11,824 --> 00:21:14,664
Speaker 2: my Instagram page, and I'm oh, what are people going

442
00:21:14,744 --> 00:21:18,064
Speaker 2: to say? At some point that becomes easy to put

443
00:21:18,064 --> 00:21:20,504
Speaker 2: a thing on Instagram or to put that Black Lives

444
00:21:20,544 --> 00:21:22,023
Speaker 2: Matter thing on Instagram. So as long as I think

445
00:21:22,024 --> 00:21:24,064
Speaker 2: we're all I think of it like it's going to

446
00:21:24,104 --> 00:21:25,904
Speaker 2: the going to the gym. As long as we're sort

447
00:21:25,904 --> 00:21:29,224
Speaker 2: of constantly pushing ourselves, especially when we see what's being

448
00:21:29,264 --> 00:21:30,344
Speaker 2: pushed back against us.

449
00:21:31,224 --> 00:21:36,984
Speaker 4: Well, here, I'm not on social media. I have podcast,

450
00:21:37,224 --> 00:21:40,224
Speaker 4: I don't I for some I love doing it. Yeah,

451
00:21:40,264 --> 00:21:42,544
Speaker 4: I love spending time with people I wouldn't have spent

452
00:21:42,664 --> 00:21:46,224
Speaker 4: time with and all of that stuff. But I'm not

453
00:21:46,344 --> 00:21:49,024
Speaker 4: on social media, so to to you know, if I

454
00:21:49,144 --> 00:21:52,104
Speaker 4: put something out into the universe, it ain't brave because

455
00:21:52,184 --> 00:21:53,944
Speaker 4: I don't see the push exactly exactly.

456
00:21:54,064 --> 00:21:55,744
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know, but there's also I just

457
00:21:55,784 --> 00:21:57,864
Speaker 2: think it's you know, we just all it's also been

458
00:21:57,864 --> 00:22:00,624
Speaker 2: surrounded by people who can check us and go, hey,

459
00:22:00,824 --> 00:22:02,504
Speaker 2: you say you're this person, which is I think what

460
00:22:02,584 --> 00:22:04,944
Speaker 2: I have around me You say you're this person, but

461
00:22:04,984 --> 00:22:08,464
Speaker 2: you're doing that, or if you are this person, you

462
00:22:08,584 --> 00:22:10,384
Speaker 2: should be doing this. Or the thing I have is

463
00:22:10,384 --> 00:22:12,104
Speaker 2: because I love an Oak A lot of activists who

464
00:22:12,104 --> 00:22:14,544
Speaker 2: are always asking me to do things and sometimes ask

465
00:22:14,624 --> 00:22:20,303
Speaker 2: me do things like to sort of say like, am

466
00:22:20,384 --> 00:22:24,064
Speaker 2: I what is that feeling I'm feeling? Will I still

467
00:22:24,104 --> 00:22:25,784
Speaker 2: do it? But it's also good to know that I'm

468
00:22:25,824 --> 00:22:27,744
Speaker 2: surrounded by people who feel like they can't ask me

469
00:22:27,784 --> 00:22:28,264
Speaker 2: these things.

470
00:22:28,384 --> 00:22:31,104
Speaker 4: And yeah, and then probably some things you shouldn't say.

471
00:22:30,984 --> 00:22:33,904
Speaker 2: Yes to no for sure, for sure. But yeah, well

472
00:22:33,904 --> 00:22:34,864
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I'm also like I

473
00:22:34,904 --> 00:22:37,744
Speaker 2: have to bind myself. You have three kids that you're

474
00:22:37,744 --> 00:22:41,824
Speaker 2: still raising her very young, so maybe you can't you know,

475
00:22:42,664 --> 00:22:47,024
Speaker 2: you personally can't like you know, I don't know literally

476
00:22:47,064 --> 00:22:48,104
Speaker 2: throw myself against.

477
00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:49,624
Speaker 1: The barricades because I don't do that either.

478
00:22:50,504 --> 00:22:53,384
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, but what I could do is I

479
00:22:53,424 --> 00:22:54,984
Speaker 2: went a couple weeks who I went to or about

480
00:22:54,984 --> 00:22:56,624
Speaker 2: a month ago, I went to Minneapolis to talk to

481
00:22:56,624 --> 00:22:58,064
Speaker 2: people on the ground there about what was going on

482
00:22:58,104 --> 00:23:00,064
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, to just.

483
00:23:00,064 --> 00:23:03,064
Speaker 1: Hear what you with camera yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with

484
00:23:03,104 --> 00:23:03,543
Speaker 1: a camera.

485
00:23:03,944 --> 00:23:05,624
Speaker 2: I have a substack now, so it's all on my

486
00:23:05,664 --> 00:23:09,624
Speaker 2: substack and talk to people on the Okay, do you

487
00:23:09,664 --> 00:23:10,224
Speaker 2: know substack?

488
00:23:10,384 --> 00:23:13,304
Speaker 1: No? I don't, Okay, well substack is. It's funny.

489
00:23:13,304 --> 00:23:17,504
Speaker 2: Subsack has become a newsletter platform where many journalists have

490
00:23:17,744 --> 00:23:21,744
Speaker 2: gone to who were fired by major platforms. So like

491
00:23:22,024 --> 00:23:24,744
Speaker 2: Jim Acosta, who was like a CNN anchor yes now

492
00:23:24,864 --> 00:23:27,504
Speaker 2: is doing his same show on substack. It's where I've

493
00:23:27,504 --> 00:23:29,064
Speaker 2: been able to do the work, the sort of work

494
00:23:29,104 --> 00:23:31,144
Speaker 2: I was doing on CNN. But now that CNN doesn't

495
00:23:31,144 --> 00:23:33,304
Speaker 2: employ me to do that work anymore. Like, I was

496
00:23:33,344 --> 00:23:35,864
Speaker 2: able to find other people who would send me to Minneapolis,

497
00:23:35,904 --> 00:23:37,944
Speaker 2: and I talked to people for three days there and

498
00:23:37,984 --> 00:23:40,184
Speaker 2: got incredible conversations that I think you would enjoy.

499
00:23:40,264 --> 00:23:42,104
Speaker 1: If you like what I've done before.

500
00:23:41,784 --> 00:23:46,664
Speaker 4: I will and thank you for this. It's really interesting

501
00:23:46,664 --> 00:23:51,464
Speaker 4: because we were just talking about Jane Funding. We're at

502
00:23:51,464 --> 00:23:53,624
Speaker 4: her house the other day, Mary and I my wife

503
00:23:53,624 --> 00:23:58,864
Speaker 4: Mary Steambridge, and there's a group of people who have

504
00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:02,984
Speaker 4: some whole some space in the you know, the world

505
00:24:03,024 --> 00:24:10,504
Speaker 4: of communicating or whatever, and they had somebody and I

506
00:24:10,544 --> 00:24:13,783
Speaker 4: wish I could remember his name and the organization, but

507
00:24:13,984 --> 00:24:21,664
Speaker 4: basically he was an expert in how America gets its news.

508
00:24:22,384 --> 00:24:25,424
Speaker 4: And it was full of diagrams and everything, so it

509
00:24:25,504 --> 00:24:34,344
Speaker 4: was really clear. But mainstream news press the people who

510
00:24:34,504 --> 00:24:36,944
Speaker 4: tend to be more liberal should we can just say

511
00:24:37,024 --> 00:24:44,144
Speaker 4: liberal conservatives. People who are more liberal liberal have a

512
00:24:44,184 --> 00:24:49,904
Speaker 4: slight margin ahead of the conservative people consume it more

513
00:24:49,984 --> 00:24:53,064
Speaker 4: liberals consume it, and they reach more people than liberals

514
00:24:53,064 --> 00:24:57,744
Speaker 4: and conservatives. Then you take a look at how the

515
00:24:57,824 --> 00:25:02,864
Speaker 4: America and everyone in it gets their news. The percentage

516
00:25:02,864 --> 00:25:07,584
Speaker 4: of people that get it from mainstream mean is minuscule

517
00:25:08,144 --> 00:25:11,544
Speaker 4: compared to this. In my craft, it was like, here's

518
00:25:11,784 --> 00:25:18,064
Speaker 4: mainstream and this huge sphere of people getting their information

519
00:25:18,384 --> 00:25:22,704
Speaker 4: and points of view and belief systems from the internet,

520
00:25:22,864 --> 00:25:26,864
Speaker 4: from social media, right, and then you try to find

521
00:25:26,904 --> 00:25:31,784
Speaker 4: the dots in this huge sphere of dots that are

522
00:25:32,064 --> 00:25:35,344
Speaker 4: people who represent your point of view. Call it liberal

523
00:25:35,384 --> 00:25:40,544
Speaker 4: for this, you know, is minuscule. So the fact that

524
00:25:40,624 --> 00:25:43,544
Speaker 4: you have there substacks out there and there are people

525
00:25:43,624 --> 00:25:47,384
Speaker 4: like you, and I'm going to say people like me,

526
00:25:47,664 --> 00:25:52,904
Speaker 4: even though I'm basically talking to celebrities, but there's an

527
00:25:53,064 --> 00:25:58,344
Speaker 4: ending that I now have it's okay to yeah, okay.

528
00:25:58,184 --> 00:26:01,664
Speaker 4: My thing that I've started to do in the last

529
00:26:02,184 --> 00:26:05,224
Speaker 4: I don't know thirty forty podcast that I've done is

530
00:26:06,784 --> 00:26:10,944
Speaker 4: is at the end after doing all the other stuff, saying,

531
00:26:11,344 --> 00:26:13,984
Speaker 4: you know, I don't mean to turn this political. I

532
00:26:13,984 --> 00:26:19,104
Speaker 4: mean partisan. You can be political, but there's a lot

533
00:26:19,144 --> 00:26:21,824
Speaker 4: of sadness and fear and anger out in the world

534
00:26:21,864 --> 00:26:27,384
Speaker 4: right now, how's your heart? And it leads into a

535
00:26:27,424 --> 00:26:32,384
Speaker 4: different conversation. Some becomes very political. Some becomes the questioning

536
00:26:32,624 --> 00:26:35,344
Speaker 4: I am I doing enough all the things that I'm

537
00:26:35,424 --> 00:26:39,424
Speaker 4: questioning about myself and giving voice to it, and somehow

538
00:26:39,464 --> 00:26:43,304
Speaker 4: I think that's good in any way. You in a

539
00:26:43,344 --> 00:26:46,624
Speaker 4: big way have you know, a big dot in that

540
00:26:46,784 --> 00:26:50,624
Speaker 4: social media thing. And that's what we need to do.

541
00:26:50,744 --> 00:26:55,624
Speaker 4: We've been on our haunches and it's a harder push

542
00:26:55,864 --> 00:27:01,424
Speaker 4: because a lot of far right, I will say, you know,

543
00:27:01,664 --> 00:27:03,824
Speaker 4: is full of anger, hate, and they don't have to

544
00:27:03,864 --> 00:27:08,704
Speaker 4: tell the truth. So that's a much easier magnet to

545
00:27:08,704 --> 00:27:13,184
Speaker 4: get people to listen than something that is a kinder, gentler,

546
00:27:13,464 --> 00:27:17,144
Speaker 4: genuine truth. But they encourage us, then I'll keep my

547
00:27:17,184 --> 00:27:21,064
Speaker 4: mouth shut. No oh wait, you're interviewing me. Sorry, talk.

548
00:27:22,824 --> 00:27:24,624
Speaker 2: It'd be weird if I felt like I was talking

549
00:27:24,664 --> 00:27:26,263
Speaker 2: too much earlier. So this is what I came for.

550
00:27:28,104 --> 00:27:32,544
Speaker 4: We were told in this evening, get just get out there,

551
00:27:33,304 --> 00:27:37,624
Speaker 4: be genuine. Don't get out there in something that is

552
00:27:37,664 --> 00:27:40,784
Speaker 4: not you and real, but get out there so that

553
00:27:41,384 --> 00:27:44,904
Speaker 4: at some point you can start you've gotten people to

554
00:27:44,984 --> 00:27:48,304
Speaker 4: listen and have trust, you can also then start to put.

555
00:27:48,104 --> 00:27:52,344
Speaker 1: Out hey yeah, vote, yeah, hey yeah out there. Yeah.

556
00:27:52,424 --> 00:27:54,584
Speaker 4: This is this is very important.

557
00:27:55,024 --> 00:27:57,944
Speaker 2: I mean, I will say this that I have learned,

558
00:27:58,104 --> 00:28:01,224
Speaker 2: and it's as much as it seems silly, but like

559
00:28:01,704 --> 00:28:04,024
Speaker 2: if I show up at a protest in Oakland, where

560
00:28:04,064 --> 00:28:08,024
Speaker 2: I live. It makes a difference for the people who

561
00:28:08,024 --> 00:28:10,664
Speaker 2: are there who are like many if we're a hardcore activists,

562
00:28:10,704 --> 00:28:13,224
Speaker 2: or people who were like maybe this is their first protest,

563
00:28:13,304 --> 00:28:17,784
Speaker 2: because they go if Comal's here one, it means that

564
00:28:18,184 --> 00:28:21,424
Speaker 2: maybe it's this is a real thing, you know. Like

565
00:28:21,464 --> 00:28:24,824
Speaker 2: I said, it feels silly, but also if I'm there,

566
00:28:24,984 --> 00:28:27,064
Speaker 2: it just brings more attention because I'm sort of a

567
00:28:27,104 --> 00:28:29,784
Speaker 2: famous person, so it feels like, oh, the message is

568
00:28:29,784 --> 00:28:31,664
Speaker 2: going to get out, or people take pictures with me

569
00:28:31,704 --> 00:28:33,744
Speaker 2: and then they put the pictures and I've seen many

570
00:28:33,744 --> 00:28:35,464
Speaker 2: pictures of the back of my head. Look, Camal Bell

571
00:28:35,624 --> 00:28:38,064
Speaker 2: was here this thing, and so as much as it

572
00:28:38,144 --> 00:28:41,544
Speaker 2: feels sort of silly to me, I recognize. I went

573
00:28:41,584 --> 00:28:46,664
Speaker 2: to a teacher's rally in Oakland recently. Somebody people reached

574
00:28:46,664 --> 00:28:47,824
Speaker 2: out to me and said would you come to this?

575
00:28:48,264 --> 00:28:50,624
Speaker 2: And I got there and people were just like happy

576
00:28:50,624 --> 00:28:52,264
Speaker 2: to see me there, which is great. I've been working

577
00:28:52,304 --> 00:28:54,624
Speaker 2: with teachers in Oakland for a long time. And then

578
00:28:54,664 --> 00:28:56,504
Speaker 2: at some point I heard the person on stage go

579
00:28:56,584 --> 00:28:58,824
Speaker 2: and now for our closing speaker, w Camal Bell.

580
00:28:58,904 --> 00:29:05,904
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, how'd that go? I was fine.

581
00:29:06,104 --> 00:29:08,584
Speaker 2: I mean luckily as a as a comedian, I always

582
00:29:08,624 --> 00:29:10,144
Speaker 2: got a few things in my head that I sort

583
00:29:10,184 --> 00:29:11,944
Speaker 2: of like and I sort of had I sort of

584
00:29:12,024 --> 00:29:14,544
Speaker 2: always am thinking. So it was I always spoke for

585
00:29:14,544 --> 00:29:15,984
Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. They didn't need me to do

586
00:29:16,064 --> 00:29:18,504
Speaker 2: like an hour. But you know, but and I think

587
00:29:18,544 --> 00:29:20,144
Speaker 2: really I just was there. I sort of was there.

588
00:29:20,304 --> 00:29:22,104
Speaker 2: My job is to rally and say you're in the

589
00:29:22,144 --> 00:29:22,824
Speaker 2: right place, doing the.

590
00:29:22,864 --> 00:29:23,744
Speaker 1: Right things, right.

591
00:29:24,104 --> 00:29:25,664
Speaker 2: So I've gotten used to that in a way that

592
00:29:25,744 --> 00:29:28,264
Speaker 2: like ten years ago, I would have freaked out if

593
00:29:28,264 --> 00:29:29,704
Speaker 2: they if I had been in a thing like that

594
00:29:29,744 --> 00:29:31,544
Speaker 2: and they said, now come olvoll.

595
00:29:31,944 --> 00:29:37,184
Speaker 4: You know, thank you for this, because I I I

596
00:29:37,264 --> 00:29:39,424
Speaker 4: need to do that. I haven't done it yet, and

597
00:29:39,504 --> 00:29:41,984
Speaker 4: I need to do it, not just because it'll make

598
00:29:42,024 --> 00:29:44,424
Speaker 4: me feel good or I can say I did it,

599
00:29:44,744 --> 00:29:50,064
Speaker 4: which it will help, But it's also I think the

600
00:29:50,184 --> 00:29:53,424
Speaker 4: thing about demonstrations all although what you really need to

601
00:29:53,464 --> 00:29:56,744
Speaker 4: do is as you do, support you know, a sl

602
00:29:56,824 --> 00:29:59,024
Speaker 4: you support people who know how to fight this in

603
00:29:59,064 --> 00:30:02,664
Speaker 4: the courts, because that seems to be the only ground

604
00:30:02,744 --> 00:30:07,464
Speaker 4: that we can. But sometimes it's like I'm reassuring. It's

605
00:30:07,504 --> 00:30:10,744
Speaker 4: not reassuring, it's telling people you're not alone. Yes, you

606
00:30:10,784 --> 00:30:12,664
Speaker 4: know andy to.

607
00:30:13,224 --> 00:30:16,024
Speaker 2: And reflect back to you. I know you say that

608
00:30:16,144 --> 00:30:20,024
Speaker 2: like it's the Yeah, you take some responsibility for your

609
00:30:20,064 --> 00:30:22,664
Speaker 2: career and your in your place in this industry, but

610
00:30:22,744 --> 00:30:25,184
Speaker 2: it's also the writers. But I would say that, like,

611
00:30:26,304 --> 00:30:29,184
Speaker 2: the thing that I also see in you is there's

612
00:30:29,264 --> 00:30:33,104
Speaker 2: like a grace in you that it's not something that

613
00:30:33,504 --> 00:30:36,584
Speaker 2: everybody in the world, that everybody has that. I would

614
00:30:36,624 --> 00:30:39,624
Speaker 2: imagine that somebody who's thinking about who should be cast

615
00:30:39,624 --> 00:30:42,384
Speaker 2: in this knows that they get you. They're not just

616
00:30:42,424 --> 00:30:45,784
Speaker 2: getting the great comedian and the great actor. They're getting

617
00:30:45,784 --> 00:30:48,904
Speaker 2: somebody who they want to have around the set.

618
00:30:49,224 --> 00:30:52,504
Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, I think that's true. I mean I've

619
00:30:52,544 --> 00:30:56,424
Speaker 4: worked now for Mike Sure, basically you know, you're the

620
00:30:58,184 --> 00:31:04,224
Speaker 4: contract player Mike and Morgan sc and they they you know,

621
00:31:04,424 --> 00:31:07,584
Speaker 4: you see the exact same crew on all of his

622
00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:12,304
Speaker 4: productions because they love being around him. He's efficient, he's bright,

623
00:31:12,384 --> 00:31:16,224
Speaker 4: he's purposeful, and he's you know, he believes in the

624
00:31:16,304 --> 00:31:18,784
Speaker 4: life is too short. You know, I don't get how

625
00:31:18,824 --> 00:31:21,944
Speaker 4: talent you are. If you're behaving like an asshole, then

626
00:31:22,504 --> 00:31:25,824
Speaker 4: God bless you, not for us, yes, kind of feeling Yeah,

627
00:31:26,104 --> 00:31:29,784
Speaker 4: and that's a sense of grace is a is a

628
00:31:29,824 --> 00:31:32,784
Speaker 4: good thing. I make jokes that I'm not that talented,

629
00:31:32,824 --> 00:31:35,504
Speaker 4: but I'm really nice, so I get hired.

630
00:31:35,824 --> 00:31:38,824
Speaker 2: But you also, clearly, I don't know what work looks

631
00:31:38,864 --> 00:31:40,864
Speaker 2: like for you when you're like working on a script,

632
00:31:41,264 --> 00:31:45,424
Speaker 2: but you're clearly like you're making big choices in this.

633
00:31:45,504 --> 00:31:48,064
Speaker 2: I would imagine there's some busting your ass components of

634
00:31:48,064 --> 00:31:50,464
Speaker 2: that that we're not seeing. That there's you who's like

635
00:31:50,504 --> 00:31:54,104
Speaker 2: memorizing the script or that is like doing things that's

636
00:31:54,144 --> 00:31:56,704
Speaker 2: sure that goes unseen so that you can show up

637
00:31:56,744 --> 00:31:57,504
Speaker 2: and have that grace.

638
00:31:57,944 --> 00:32:03,904
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I agree, and yeah I agree. I sometimes

639
00:32:03,944 --> 00:32:07,704
Speaker 4: I think I've been doing the same kind of dance

640
00:32:08,104 --> 00:32:10,784
Speaker 4: for a long time, which is I mean, there are

641
00:32:10,784 --> 00:32:15,464
Speaker 4: a few things I've done that are different work, but

642
00:32:15,744 --> 00:32:24,144
Speaker 4: mostly it has been light comedy or even heavy comedy,

643
00:32:24,184 --> 00:32:27,224
Speaker 4: but comedy. Yeah, you know, and that is that is

644
00:32:28,824 --> 00:32:33,144
Speaker 4: you dig down deep, but not as deep as you

645
00:32:33,224 --> 00:32:37,104
Speaker 4: dig down if you're in I don't know, name your favoite,

646
00:32:37,464 --> 00:32:41,224
Speaker 4: favorite drama or emotional thing like that, but so I've

647
00:32:42,824 --> 00:32:46,904
Speaker 4: I sometimes question myself, you know, could I do that?

648
00:32:47,264 --> 00:32:51,784
Speaker 4: You know? Damages was wonderful, but it was funny, meaning

649
00:32:52,304 --> 00:32:56,464
Speaker 4: it's funny to have somebody have such a narcissistic ego

650
00:32:56,584 --> 00:33:01,464
Speaker 4: that he doesn't recognize the huge shadow of Glenn's closest

651
00:33:01,584 --> 00:33:06,464
Speaker 4: character looming over him, you know. And Fargo, it was

652
00:33:06,504 --> 00:33:11,064
Speaker 4: fun to do. But basically I love chasing the giggle. Yeah,

653
00:33:11,624 --> 00:33:12,624
Speaker 4: I guess what I meant.

654
00:33:13,104 --> 00:33:16,464
Speaker 2: But there's never in your work, you know, even in

655
00:33:17,024 --> 00:33:20,304
Speaker 2: the comedy, especially saying like comedy, but there's always heart

656
00:33:20,384 --> 00:33:24,064
Speaker 2: forward like comedy. Yeah, like we're allowed to feel things

657
00:33:24,104 --> 00:33:26,344
Speaker 2: like That's why I was so taken by the first

658
00:33:26,344 --> 00:33:28,784
Speaker 2: scene in Cheers, because the first scene in Cheers, when

659
00:33:28,824 --> 00:33:31,544
Speaker 2: you walk through the bar, we're seeing a lonely broken man,

660
00:33:31,744 --> 00:33:34,504
Speaker 2: like you know, Sam Malone is a is a an

661
00:33:34,544 --> 00:33:37,144
Speaker 2: alcoholic who owns a bar, who's like, I don't know,

662
00:33:37,264 --> 00:33:37,824
Speaker 2: like there's.

663
00:33:37,584 --> 00:33:41,544
Speaker 5: Just never have a lasting relationship exactly, just like this

664
00:33:41,624 --> 00:33:42,544
Speaker 5: is what my life is.

665
00:33:42,664 --> 00:33:43,904
Speaker 1: And at that point we don't even know how sad.

666
00:33:44,184 --> 00:33:46,104
Speaker 2: We know he's a baseball he's the next baseball player,

667
00:33:46,144 --> 00:33:48,864
Speaker 2: but that's not It doesn't open on pop up but

668
00:33:49,024 --> 00:33:50,704
Speaker 2: up it's a fun bar and I'm having a good

669
00:33:50,744 --> 00:33:53,544
Speaker 2: time and Diane walks in. It's a lonely broken man

670
00:33:53,784 --> 00:33:56,464
Speaker 2: who then gets his day gets broken up by this,

671
00:33:56,904 --> 00:33:59,504
Speaker 2: by this relationship, with this, with this Diana.

672
00:33:59,304 --> 00:34:02,624
Speaker 4: My youngest daughter who's now forty two. Yes, I'll tell

673
00:34:02,664 --> 00:34:06,464
Speaker 4: you something asked me when she was I don't know,

674
00:34:06,664 --> 00:34:11,624
Speaker 4: seven or eight. Why why you know? She was learning

675
00:34:11,663 --> 00:34:15,343
Speaker 4: my character's name. Yes, Sam Alone. She said, why why

676
00:34:15,384 --> 00:34:21,424
Speaker 4: are you called Sam Alone? Which is so fucking perfect?

677
00:34:22,223 --> 00:34:26,104
Speaker 1: He was Sam. Did anybody did the writers know the

678
00:34:26,143 --> 00:34:29,064
Speaker 1: best way? I don't know, but I had never thought

679
00:34:29,223 --> 00:34:37,464
Speaker 1: Sam alone? Mhm.

680
00:34:48,384 --> 00:34:51,584
Speaker 4: Can I just tell you that image? Yes, Every once

681
00:34:51,584 --> 00:34:54,423
Speaker 4: in a while I do watch cheers.

682
00:34:54,944 --> 00:34:56,104
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. I love that.

683
00:34:56,303 --> 00:34:59,863
Speaker 4: Yeah, I watched an episode you can just it's in

684
00:35:01,424 --> 00:35:04,303
Speaker 4: uh YouTube, you know you can find it. It's a

685
00:35:04,344 --> 00:35:11,263
Speaker 4: clip of Sam Alone goes to the sex anonymo miss

686
00:35:11,904 --> 00:35:14,984
Speaker 4: uh you know where people are working out their sexual

687
00:35:15,024 --> 00:35:21,024
Speaker 4: addictions twill step and I'm in a circle and I've heartfelt.

688
00:35:21,104 --> 00:35:24,943
Speaker 4: There's a genuine, beautifully written heartfelt from Sam. And then

689
00:35:24,984 --> 00:35:28,064
Speaker 4: the person next to me, young lady, starts talking about

690
00:35:28,904 --> 00:35:35,424
Speaker 4: her really sad, full of shame and degradation, and she

691
00:35:35,584 --> 00:35:38,424
Speaker 4: goes on and on and at the end of it,

692
00:35:38,504 --> 00:35:41,184
Speaker 4: people clap and you just see Sam like she's sitting

693
00:35:41,223 --> 00:35:52,984
Speaker 4: here going you like Chinese. He will never not be

694
00:35:53,064 --> 00:35:54,423
Speaker 4: Sam not be on the.

695
00:35:54,384 --> 00:35:56,584
Speaker 1: Make, He will never not be. And I think there's

696
00:35:56,984 --> 00:35:57,824
Speaker 1: but there's something.

697
00:35:57,623 --> 00:36:00,863
Speaker 2: About you that my mom didn't mind the fact that

698
00:36:00,904 --> 00:36:02,943
Speaker 2: I liked you, you know what I mean?

699
00:36:03,064 --> 00:36:06,783
Speaker 4: Yes, And that's that's also the writing, because I there

700
00:36:07,824 --> 00:36:11,864
Speaker 4: if you were I'm sorry, I'm sure, or some lovely

701
00:36:11,904 --> 00:36:15,743
Speaker 4: fraternity people out there, if you're if you're a true

702
00:36:18,183 --> 00:36:22,104
Speaker 4: or whatever, they love Sam Malone wanted to be Sam alone.

703
00:36:22,263 --> 00:36:26,024
Speaker 4: If you were in the women's movement, if you were

704
00:36:26,143 --> 00:36:31,024
Speaker 4: a strong, uh you know, liberated woman. You also liked

705
00:36:31,104 --> 00:36:34,344
Speaker 4: him because he was so obviously an idiot.

706
00:36:34,464 --> 00:36:36,783
Speaker 1: Yes, yes you can laugh at him.

707
00:36:36,904 --> 00:36:42,064
Speaker 4: You can go that toxic masculinity. And I also think

708
00:36:42,104 --> 00:36:49,584
Speaker 4: that casting wise, it was kind of not me as

709
00:36:49,703 --> 00:36:53,064
Speaker 4: my talents or did whatever, but me as who I

710
00:36:53,143 --> 00:36:59,104
Speaker 4: am as a person. It's best have that play Sam Alone,

711
00:36:59,344 --> 00:37:04,584
Speaker 4: then somebody who is Sam Malone like? And I think

712
00:37:04,623 --> 00:37:07,224
Speaker 4: you need to get the joke of what you're playing

713
00:37:08,424 --> 00:37:10,384
Speaker 4: to be able to make it palatable.

714
00:37:11,104 --> 00:37:14,263
Speaker 2: Don't want to actually think Sam Malone is actually that

715
00:37:14,464 --> 00:37:18,344
Speaker 2: he's he's cool, like you know he is, he is cool,

716
00:37:18,424 --> 00:37:21,143
Speaker 2: He's just broken and you need but the broken part

717
00:37:21,183 --> 00:37:24,663
Speaker 2: is necessary for you to actually like him because he

718
00:37:24,703 --> 00:37:25,303
Speaker 2: is a cool guy.

719
00:37:25,584 --> 00:37:26,383
Speaker 1: You know, he's a cool guy.

720
00:37:26,384 --> 00:37:28,544
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that, and it is amazing to

721
00:37:28,584 --> 00:37:33,263
Speaker 2: me that that all comes through. And that's the thing

722
00:37:33,263 --> 00:37:35,264
Speaker 2: that I think again about that when I think about

723
00:37:35,464 --> 00:37:37,383
Speaker 2: it's all about me today, my career and how I'm

724
00:37:37,384 --> 00:37:38,263
Speaker 2: trying to navigate this.

725
00:37:38,663 --> 00:37:40,464
Speaker 1: And you say the thing about like the same crew.

726
00:37:40,703 --> 00:37:43,663
Speaker 2: I was pitching a project recently and somebody's like, do

727
00:37:43,703 --> 00:37:44,744
Speaker 2: you want to hire your own producer?

728
00:37:44,743 --> 00:37:45,984
Speaker 1: You want us to find your producer.

729
00:37:46,143 --> 00:37:49,903
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, no new friends, Like, I

730
00:37:49,984 --> 00:37:52,423
Speaker 2: can't bring in new people at this point unless they've

731
00:37:52,464 --> 00:37:54,904
Speaker 2: been vetted through somebody else. I can't sort of be

732
00:37:54,944 --> 00:37:57,944
Speaker 2: at a point my career. I'm sitting why why I

733
00:37:57,984 --> 00:38:01,584
Speaker 2: hear you? But why because the thing I understand about

734
00:38:01,623 --> 00:38:06,263
Speaker 2: myself is that whatever people see me at from the outside,

735
00:38:06,623 --> 00:38:08,424
Speaker 2: I know it's more complicated from the inside.

736
00:38:08,424 --> 00:38:09,943
Speaker 1: So I've had people come to me because they've seen

737
00:38:09,944 --> 00:38:10,463
Speaker 1: my work and go.

738
00:38:10,424 --> 00:38:12,504
Speaker 2: Oh, I would love to work with you, But then

739
00:38:12,504 --> 00:38:14,223
Speaker 2: when they get on the inside, they're like, oh, that's

740
00:38:14,223 --> 00:38:17,744
Speaker 2: not what I expected it was. And I know people

741
00:38:17,904 --> 00:38:19,343
Speaker 2: through the year like I was on seeing M for

742
00:38:19,384 --> 00:38:21,943
Speaker 2: seven years. I worked with hundreds of people. We did

743
00:38:21,944 --> 00:38:23,783
Speaker 2: the cosmy doc. We did one thousand percent of me

744
00:38:23,944 --> 00:38:27,023
Speaker 2: I've done. I've done a bunch of things. I've written

745
00:38:27,064 --> 00:38:29,023
Speaker 2: a couple of books that I have a like a

746
00:38:29,104 --> 00:38:31,024
Speaker 2: it's a big circle, but a circle of people who

747
00:38:31,024 --> 00:38:32,743
Speaker 2: if I call them, they go, yep, I'll be there,

748
00:38:32,783 --> 00:38:33,784
Speaker 2: and I get it, Like there's.

749
00:38:33,623 --> 00:38:35,344
Speaker 1: No and we can just get to the work.

750
00:38:35,584 --> 00:38:37,823
Speaker 4: By the way, yep, yeah, I get it.

751
00:38:37,904 --> 00:38:39,343
Speaker 2: We just get to We don't have to talk about

752
00:38:39,464 --> 00:38:41,104
Speaker 2: I don't have to negotiate how I want to do

753
00:38:41,143 --> 00:38:43,463
Speaker 2: the work. Now you may have I have a best

754
00:38:43,504 --> 00:38:45,943
Speaker 2: idea wins policy, So you have the best better idea

755
00:38:45,984 --> 00:38:46,183
Speaker 2: than me?

756
00:38:46,303 --> 00:38:47,303
Speaker 1: Great? Great?

757
00:38:47,344 --> 00:38:49,703
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no. I literally just wanted to hear

758
00:38:49,743 --> 00:38:50,343
Speaker 4: what you said.

759
00:38:50,424 --> 00:38:52,143
Speaker 2: Yeah, just but I want to be able to like

760
00:38:52,743 --> 00:38:55,984
Speaker 2: focus on them because show is so hard.

761
00:38:56,864 --> 00:38:58,584
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you don't want to have to be living

762
00:38:58,663 --> 00:39:00,863
Speaker 4: up to somebody else's image of you. You want to

763
00:39:00,904 --> 00:39:03,424
Speaker 4: be working with somebody who gets your heart and soul

764
00:39:03,504 --> 00:39:06,703
Speaker 4: and yeah, how do you hold this podcast? You know,

765
00:39:06,864 --> 00:39:10,343
Speaker 4: as you start out, what is why? Why is it

766
00:39:10,464 --> 00:39:13,223
Speaker 4: just another way? Or is there something special about it?

767
00:39:13,344 --> 00:39:16,423
Speaker 2: Or so I would say that there's two things in

768
00:39:16,464 --> 00:39:18,383
Speaker 2: the in like that I've done in my career that

769
00:39:18,424 --> 00:39:21,024
Speaker 2: if I could just do those things, I would I

770
00:39:21,024 --> 00:39:22,384
Speaker 2: would let everything else go away.

771
00:39:23,223 --> 00:39:24,784
Speaker 1: Want to stand up comedy.

772
00:39:24,783 --> 00:39:27,143
Speaker 2: But it doesn't it doesn't pay well enough for me

773
00:39:27,183 --> 00:39:28,863
Speaker 2: to do, but I still I quit for like five

774
00:39:28,944 --> 00:39:30,703
Speaker 2: years and I came back, and I just really like

775
00:39:30,743 --> 00:39:33,024
Speaker 2: there's something about that that is so like the same

776
00:39:33,064 --> 00:39:35,024
Speaker 2: thing probably got on Cheers where the audience is right

777
00:39:35,024 --> 00:39:36,383
Speaker 2: there and you can hear it.

778
00:39:36,944 --> 00:39:39,344
Speaker 1: And so I really like live performance stand up comedy.

779
00:39:39,424 --> 00:39:42,064
Speaker 2: And I really think that my most natural natural habitat

780
00:39:42,104 --> 00:39:45,743
Speaker 2: is probably podcasting, like having conversations with people that I

781
00:39:45,783 --> 00:39:48,064
Speaker 2: want to talk to. And for years I sort of

782
00:39:48,064 --> 00:39:50,104
Speaker 2: but I never had the podcast that was just mine,

783
00:39:50,183 --> 00:39:52,544
Speaker 2: Like I've had podcasts at all, had like a political podcast,

784
00:39:52,663 --> 00:39:54,584
Speaker 2: or me and my friend Kevin Avery had a Denzel

785
00:39:54,663 --> 00:39:57,823
Speaker 2: Washington podcast, so every week we talked about Denzel Washington,

786
00:39:57,824 --> 00:40:00,504
Speaker 2: which there's a lot to talk about, but the idea

787
00:40:00,544 --> 00:40:02,143
Speaker 2: being that I'd never had a podcast that was just

788
00:40:02,183 --> 00:40:03,704
Speaker 2: come out, what do you want to talk about today?

789
00:40:04,344 --> 00:40:06,224
Speaker 2: And so I really in a space in this business

790
00:40:06,263 --> 00:40:07,823
Speaker 2: where there's so many things you're doing because you're like,

791
00:40:08,263 --> 00:40:11,024
Speaker 2: this makes sense. I guess I could do that, or well,

792
00:40:11,183 --> 00:40:13,343
Speaker 2: they offered this much, so I should probably there's a

793
00:40:13,344 --> 00:40:18,104
Speaker 2: lot of like negotiating yourself into things, and I wanted

794
00:40:18,143 --> 00:40:19,424
Speaker 2: to and I still want to have I want to

795
00:40:19,424 --> 00:40:20,743
Speaker 2: have a space where I can actually like I just

796
00:40:20,783 --> 00:40:21,864
Speaker 2: want to talk to Ted dancing.

797
00:40:22,623 --> 00:40:23,863
Speaker 1: So it's funny for me.

798
00:40:23,944 --> 00:40:25,863
Speaker 4: What I heard was, what do you want to talk

799
00:40:25,904 --> 00:40:30,544
Speaker 4: about today? That's important that you feel is immpactful? Yeah,

800
00:40:30,904 --> 00:40:33,263
Speaker 4: and purposeful because the world is what it is?

801
00:40:33,504 --> 00:40:33,703
Speaker 1: Yeah?

802
00:40:33,864 --> 00:40:36,104
Speaker 4: Did I hear that kind of basically that.

803
00:40:36,223 --> 00:40:37,464
Speaker 1: Made today just generally?

804
00:40:37,584 --> 00:40:40,544
Speaker 4: Or you said, what is so this allows me to do?

805
00:40:40,623 --> 00:40:41,663
Speaker 1: What do I want to talk about?

806
00:40:41,904 --> 00:40:46,223
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, Yeah, I offer myself up as an example

807
00:40:46,263 --> 00:40:51,264
Speaker 4: of I I get it. I get everything that's happening.

808
00:40:51,263 --> 00:40:54,383
Speaker 4: You don't have to convince me about the politics or

809
00:40:54,424 --> 00:40:55,664
Speaker 4: the immorality.

810
00:40:55,824 --> 00:40:57,784
Speaker 1: Or you were just yelling about the ocean in Santa Monica.

811
00:40:57,984 --> 00:41:01,383
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a guy who says he doesn't go out there,

812
00:41:01,424 --> 00:41:03,344
Speaker 2: you were just at a meeting yelling about the ocean.

813
00:41:04,183 --> 00:41:07,024
Speaker 4: Right, So what I'm saying is there's a huge amount

814
00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:10,863
Speaker 4: that we need to address. We're talking about going to

815
00:41:11,303 --> 00:41:16,184
Speaker 4: King's Day and you know, doing being vocal and verbal,

816
00:41:16,303 --> 00:41:19,863
Speaker 4: you know, at least standing near the ya, the bear,

817
00:41:20,183 --> 00:41:24,104
Speaker 4: the ballast, whatever you call it, sorry, the barricades, you know,

818
00:41:24,183 --> 00:41:26,504
Speaker 4: if not on top of it, at least be present,

819
00:41:26,663 --> 00:41:33,064
Speaker 4: you know. And here's here's what happens to me. I am.

820
00:41:33,904 --> 00:41:37,984
Speaker 4: I'm pointing out a fault that's probably out there in

821
00:41:38,024 --> 00:41:41,943
Speaker 4: the world a lot people who believe the right thing,

822
00:41:42,824 --> 00:41:48,464
Speaker 4: people like me and I for thirty five years have

823
00:41:48,504 --> 00:41:53,863
Speaker 4: been fighting for ocean advocacy and I and it's an

824
00:41:53,944 --> 00:41:58,104
Speaker 4: amazing organization called Oceania, and it gives me a club

825
00:41:58,703 --> 00:42:02,344
Speaker 4: to fight some of this because it is science based

826
00:42:02,424 --> 00:42:05,743
Speaker 4: and it has you know, lawyers, and it has activists

827
00:42:05,824 --> 00:42:08,584
Speaker 4: and campaigners and all that, but it's based on.

828
00:42:10,703 --> 00:42:11,064
Speaker 1: Reality.

829
00:42:11,824 --> 00:42:14,984
Speaker 4: It's based on science, and then it's based on the law.

830
00:42:15,584 --> 00:42:20,384
Speaker 4: So I have I've testified in Congress and had people

831
00:42:20,584 --> 00:42:24,864
Speaker 4: who Republicans who were pro oil and connected to oil,

832
00:42:25,544 --> 00:42:28,984
Speaker 4: you know, reing me out. I don't care because what

833
00:42:29,064 --> 00:42:32,344
Speaker 4: I'm saying in that moment is, Hey, this is the science.

834
00:42:33,544 --> 00:42:36,623
Speaker 4: Do with it what you want, but this is the science,

835
00:42:36,663 --> 00:42:38,303
Speaker 4: and this is what's going to happen if you don't

836
00:42:38,703 --> 00:42:45,224
Speaker 4: do something about climate check. So I'm not confronting people's

837
00:42:45,263 --> 00:42:50,783
Speaker 4: belief systems or or you know, I'm not saying you're

838
00:42:50,904 --> 00:42:53,104
Speaker 4: wrong and you're evil and you're an asshole.

839
00:42:53,143 --> 00:42:55,584
Speaker 2: You're saying the science is the science. Yeah, although now

840
00:42:55,584 --> 00:42:58,623
Speaker 2: people take that as your asshole, the saying the science is.

841
00:42:59,064 --> 00:43:02,424
Speaker 4: But I but so I but I now recognize that

842
00:43:02,504 --> 00:43:05,183
Speaker 4: I hide behind that. You know, it's a little bit.

843
00:43:05,223 --> 00:43:08,743
Speaker 4: I gave it the office. You know, I'm fighting for oceans. Yeah,

844
00:43:09,464 --> 00:43:13,104
Speaker 4: that's not enough, And so what do you say to

845
00:43:13,183 --> 00:43:16,663
Speaker 4: people who are on the right side, who have who

846
00:43:16,743 --> 00:43:20,984
Speaker 4: are active in some areas. But it's not enough anymore

847
00:43:21,623 --> 00:43:26,184
Speaker 4: to just do that because you know, there are people

848
00:43:26,223 --> 00:43:28,383
Speaker 4: you love and care about, I mean taking off the

849
00:43:28,424 --> 00:43:32,064
Speaker 4: street or shot there are you know, there are just

850
00:43:32,143 --> 00:43:36,984
Speaker 4: so much, so many wicked things happening that for me

851
00:43:37,104 --> 00:43:41,624
Speaker 4: to say I'm saving the oceans, it is not good enough.

852
00:43:42,303 --> 00:43:43,424
Speaker 4: I'm speaking.

853
00:43:43,504 --> 00:43:45,424
Speaker 1: You're saying that, you're saying that the oceans is.

854
00:43:45,384 --> 00:43:47,464
Speaker 4: Not No, it's it's totally important.

855
00:43:47,584 --> 00:43:47,703
Speaker 5: You know.

856
00:43:47,864 --> 00:43:49,544
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying that, but you're saying that, like

857
00:43:49,584 --> 00:43:52,104
Speaker 2: there are maybe some people would think there's other issues

858
00:43:52,143 --> 00:43:54,864
Speaker 2: that are more pressing that he's talking about the oceans

859
00:43:54,904 --> 00:43:57,663
Speaker 2: and he should be talking about are equally pressing or

860
00:43:57,783 --> 00:44:00,104
Speaker 2: oh wow, why are you just why just that you

861
00:44:00,143 --> 00:44:02,104
Speaker 2: should be first of all.

862
00:44:01,984 --> 00:44:04,824
Speaker 4: It's like it's sorry, It's like thank you, Ted, that's great.

863
00:44:04,904 --> 00:44:07,303
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, well I say this.

864
00:44:07,504 --> 00:44:09,543
Speaker 2: I find one of the great things that United States

865
00:44:09,544 --> 00:44:11,463
Speaker 2: of America did for me is I was a lot

866
00:44:11,504 --> 00:44:15,703
Speaker 2: of different conversations that I wouldn't have been in otherwise. Right,

867
00:44:15,944 --> 00:44:20,263
Speaker 2: So therefore, recently, when there's been like a like a

868
00:44:20,303 --> 00:44:23,263
Speaker 2: catastrophe in Hawaii, I've been to Hawaii talk to people

869
00:44:23,303 --> 00:44:26,344
Speaker 2: in Hawaii, and so I know when I see that happen,

870
00:44:26,663 --> 00:44:30,183
Speaker 2: I feel a certain responsibility to sort of like talk

871
00:44:30,183 --> 00:44:32,703
Speaker 2: about that and promote that in a way that I

872
00:44:32,703 --> 00:44:36,183
Speaker 2: wouldn't if I hadn't talked to those people directly. So

873
00:44:36,783 --> 00:44:39,343
Speaker 2: for me, the number one thing in my life that

874
00:44:39,384 --> 00:44:43,584
Speaker 2: has helped is putting myself in lots of different conversations

875
00:44:43,904 --> 00:44:46,703
Speaker 2: with lots of different people, even in times where I

876
00:44:46,703 --> 00:44:48,423
Speaker 2: was like, I don't even know what I'm doing here.

877
00:44:49,464 --> 00:44:53,743
Speaker 2: I think it's super important for me to be in

878
00:44:53,824 --> 00:44:57,823
Speaker 2: as many different conversations as possible so that when those

879
00:44:57,864 --> 00:45:00,424
Speaker 2: things arise, I have some connection to them so they

880
00:45:00,424 --> 00:45:01,584
Speaker 2: don't feel so far away from me.

881
00:45:01,663 --> 00:45:02,504
Speaker 1: Do you. I see what I'm saying.

882
00:45:02,663 --> 00:45:05,343
Speaker 4: I do and who there's some famous person has said

883
00:45:05,464 --> 00:45:08,544
Speaker 4: is not enough to write a check? Or you know

884
00:45:08,824 --> 00:45:10,863
Speaker 4: are like you need to walk?

885
00:45:11,223 --> 00:45:11,864
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to know.

886
00:45:12,143 --> 00:45:14,303
Speaker 2: All these things are all these things are different levels

887
00:45:14,344 --> 00:45:16,183
Speaker 2: of things you can do. So I'm not saying don't

888
00:45:16,183 --> 00:45:17,823
Speaker 2: write the check, but I do think that people think

889
00:45:17,864 --> 00:45:19,663
Speaker 2: writing the check is the end all. No, that's just

890
00:45:19,743 --> 00:45:22,464
Speaker 2: one aspect of this. Like right now, the thing that

891
00:45:22,464 --> 00:45:24,263
Speaker 2: I keep talking about is mutual aid. Do you know

892
00:45:24,263 --> 00:45:27,264
Speaker 2: what mutual aid? It's mutual aid is just the concept

893
00:45:27,303 --> 00:45:30,984
Speaker 2: of like instead of like necessarily writing a check to

894
00:45:31,064 --> 00:45:33,544
Speaker 2: the ACLU, you put money in the hands of an

895
00:45:33,584 --> 00:45:35,504
Speaker 2: undocumented person and go here do it. This is what

896
00:45:35,623 --> 00:45:39,584
Speaker 2: you will like, I know, you need you need you

897
00:45:39,584 --> 00:45:42,104
Speaker 2: know what I mean, instead of like, yes, the acl

898
00:45:42,143 --> 00:45:45,544
Speaker 2: you need the check. But also there are people in

899
00:45:45,944 --> 00:45:47,544
Speaker 2: our communities right now who are afraid to go to

900
00:45:47,584 --> 00:45:49,984
Speaker 2: the grocery store because ice is on the streets. So

901
00:45:50,024 --> 00:45:52,784
Speaker 2: like when I was saying, yeah, yeah, buy them groceries,

902
00:45:52,904 --> 00:45:54,544
Speaker 2: or go to the store that you know is doing

903
00:45:54,743 --> 00:45:57,663
Speaker 2: so give the store that I was in Minneapolis. There's

904
00:45:57,703 --> 00:46:01,223
Speaker 2: a bodega in Minneapolis, tandems what they call it called

905
00:46:01,384 --> 00:46:05,024
Speaker 2: a Migospan stop. It is run by a Palestinian family

906
00:46:05,064 --> 00:46:08,623
Speaker 2: of Palestinian immigrants, but it's in a Latino neighborhood. It

907
00:46:08,743 --> 00:46:10,823
Speaker 2: just so happens to these Palestatian immigrants grew up in

908
00:46:10,864 --> 00:46:15,984
Speaker 2: out America, so they speak English, Spanish, Arabic and Portuguese.

909
00:46:15,384 --> 00:46:16,904
Speaker 1: Because he grows on America.

910
00:46:17,584 --> 00:46:20,303
Speaker 2: Uh So, this guy said, my community, the people I

911
00:46:20,344 --> 00:46:23,703
Speaker 2: serve for mostly Latino, but they're afraid to come here.

912
00:46:23,743 --> 00:46:27,383
Speaker 2: So I started delivering them groceries for free. And some

913
00:46:27,424 --> 00:46:29,223
Speaker 2: of them they can't pay for the groceries because they're

914
00:46:29,223 --> 00:46:31,143
Speaker 2: not working. So I get so I will give them

915
00:46:31,183 --> 00:46:35,104
Speaker 2: groceries for free. And I talked to him. Just all

916
00:46:35,143 --> 00:46:36,823
Speaker 2: walked in off street talk to this guy. Was told

917
00:46:36,864 --> 00:46:38,823
Speaker 2: to talk to this guy. And so for me, it's

918
00:46:38,864 --> 00:46:42,024
Speaker 2: like he set up a vemo. People started sending him

919
00:46:42,064 --> 00:46:44,064
Speaker 2: money so he could so he could better do the

920
00:46:44,143 --> 00:46:46,863
Speaker 2: job that he was doing, helping people directly. So there's

921
00:46:46,864 --> 00:46:48,863
Speaker 2: also different types of checks, you know what I mean.

922
00:46:49,263 --> 00:46:52,343
Speaker 2: There's the check that is like here, use this to

923
00:46:52,384 --> 00:46:54,463
Speaker 2: buy groceries. And there's a check that is like uses

924
00:46:54,544 --> 00:46:59,183
Speaker 2: to fight a lot, stay in tower. Yeah, yeah, and

925
00:46:59,223 --> 00:47:02,263
Speaker 2: I think so I really feel like that one of

926
00:47:02,303 --> 00:47:03,823
Speaker 2: the things in this country has to get has to

927
00:47:03,864 --> 00:47:05,183
Speaker 2: sort of that those were on the right side I

928
00:47:05,183 --> 00:47:08,223
Speaker 2: have to get behind is the concept of like mutual aid,

929
00:47:08,223 --> 00:47:10,983
Speaker 2: which is literally like who in your neighborhood needs help?

930
00:47:11,783 --> 00:47:13,064
Speaker 1: But I want to give you some.

931
00:47:12,984 --> 00:47:16,024
Speaker 2: Grace because sort of connected to all of this is

932
00:47:16,024 --> 00:47:18,703
Speaker 2: that as a as a ten well no, I guess,

933
00:47:18,743 --> 00:47:21,983
Speaker 2: as a teenager who's watching Cheers and like this guy

934
00:47:22,104 --> 00:47:24,623
Speaker 2: and has dreams of being a comedian, I do want

935
00:47:24,623 --> 00:47:27,823
Speaker 2: to give you some more flowers around the fact that

936
00:47:28,464 --> 00:47:35,823
Speaker 2: you demonstrated to me how to apologize in public, thank you,

937
00:47:35,864 --> 00:47:40,544
Speaker 2: how to say oops, like, how to go and around

938
00:47:40,584 --> 00:47:42,744
Speaker 2: an issue. And I'm sure you know what I'm referring

939
00:47:42,743 --> 00:47:42,864
Speaker 2: to you.

940
00:47:43,064 --> 00:47:45,743
Speaker 4: I do. Yeah, so we can go anywhere you want,

941
00:47:46,064 --> 00:47:49,504
Speaker 4: but only because it's you. Yeah, okay, yeah, I mean

942
00:47:49,544 --> 00:47:52,224
Speaker 4: I don't want to you. You would be the person

943
00:47:52,263 --> 00:47:55,064
Speaker 4: I want to go talk to. And when you did

944
00:47:55,143 --> 00:47:57,384
Speaker 4: my podcast, I want to give you a little flower.

945
00:47:57,864 --> 00:48:00,623
Speaker 4: We nipped around the we you didn't even we weren't

946
00:48:00,864 --> 00:48:03,944
Speaker 4: nipping around it, but you said something. I said something,

947
00:48:04,183 --> 00:48:07,584
Speaker 4: and we both looked at each other, going, I know

948
00:48:07,623 --> 00:48:10,303
Speaker 4: what you're talking about, and you said yes I do

949
00:48:10,504 --> 00:48:15,143
Speaker 4: and we'll yeah, which was full of grace. But that

950
00:48:15,303 --> 00:48:17,064
Speaker 4: just mean this can't be full of grace too.

951
00:48:16,944 --> 00:48:20,544
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's it is super important to me to

952
00:48:20,584 --> 00:48:22,744
Speaker 2: say that, like this guy that I liked on TV

953
00:48:23,303 --> 00:48:26,504
Speaker 2: who was funny, who I like to show who also

954
00:48:26,944 --> 00:48:29,823
Speaker 2: at that point is dating Whoopi Goldberg, who's a member

955
00:48:29,864 --> 00:48:32,104
Speaker 2: of the black community, who I like, who is funny,

956
00:48:32,104 --> 00:48:34,343
Speaker 2: who inspired me because of Whoopy on Broadway. And you

957
00:48:34,384 --> 00:48:36,944
Speaker 2: know that's sort of like these all these things come together.

958
00:48:37,663 --> 00:48:41,104
Speaker 2: Uh and then obviously and it and its sort of

959
00:48:41,143 --> 00:48:42,704
Speaker 2: every now and again it pops up on the internet.

960
00:48:42,743 --> 00:48:45,223
Speaker 1: I'm sure you see it. It's like people new generations discostomy.

961
00:48:46,424 --> 00:48:49,784
Speaker 4: But this is why, this is why I'm really glad

962
00:48:50,104 --> 00:48:52,064
Speaker 4: we are talking about it with you.

963
00:48:52,183 --> 00:48:55,504
Speaker 2: Though yes I hear that, so because I because I

964
00:48:55,783 --> 00:48:57,783
Speaker 2: full disclosure. I asked, is there anything you don't want

965
00:48:57,824 --> 00:48:59,423
Speaker 2: to talk about? You did not say I don't want

966
00:48:59,424 --> 00:49:01,263
Speaker 2: to talk about this, and I give you credit for that.

967
00:49:01,703 --> 00:49:02,623
Speaker 1: But for me, I want to.

968
00:49:02,663 --> 00:49:05,024
Speaker 2: I only want to bring it up because just the

969
00:49:05,464 --> 00:49:10,503
Speaker 2: you know, Friars Club, Blackface, you and Whoopi Goldberg at

970
00:49:10,504 --> 00:49:12,383
Speaker 2: that that was like the first moment I think that

971
00:49:12,424 --> 00:49:15,064
Speaker 2: the Friars Club became a something that the public even

972
00:49:15,143 --> 00:49:15,904
Speaker 2: knew about.

973
00:49:15,743 --> 00:49:16,143
Speaker 1: In a way.

974
00:49:16,504 --> 00:49:18,863
Speaker 2: Yes, but this is sort of like to me, there's

975
00:49:18,904 --> 00:49:21,623
Speaker 2: like a sea change in that moment, Like the Friars

976
00:49:21,623 --> 00:49:23,823
Speaker 2: Club for people who don't know who are listening, was

977
00:49:23,904 --> 00:49:26,703
Speaker 2: this sort of like place where comedians entertainers went and

978
00:49:26,783 --> 00:49:28,823
Speaker 2: just sort of had like their own inside.

979
00:49:30,263 --> 00:49:32,983
Speaker 1: It was when roasts were private, yes you know or.

980
00:49:32,904 --> 00:49:35,343
Speaker 4: That you know that like ha ha, yes.

981
00:49:35,904 --> 00:49:37,944
Speaker 2: Yeah. The idea is like we're all going to go

982
00:49:37,984 --> 00:49:40,624
Speaker 2: into the room and make say the worst things about

983
00:49:40,623 --> 00:49:43,424
Speaker 2: each other or do the worst things because we're inside

984
00:49:43,464 --> 00:49:44,544
Speaker 2: the club, and.

985
00:49:44,584 --> 00:49:47,584
Speaker 4: Black people could say horrible things about their black yeah

986
00:49:48,584 --> 00:49:52,344
Speaker 4: brother who they were roasting. Yes, Jewish people, Italian people.

987
00:49:52,623 --> 00:49:57,943
Speaker 4: The most vile, funny stuff came out of people's mouth.

988
00:49:59,024 --> 00:50:03,344
Speaker 4: Can I do one caveat sure? Because I would like to. Yeah,

989
00:50:03,663 --> 00:50:10,584
Speaker 4: but only here's my caveat sure. Poor Whoopy Goldberg has

990
00:50:10,623 --> 00:50:13,504
Speaker 4: had to do offend me over the years, sweet sweet

991
00:50:13,584 --> 00:50:16,464
Speaker 4: Land gracefully, So the last thing she probably wants to

992
00:50:16,504 --> 00:50:19,303
Speaker 4: do is have this. You know, have been put in

993
00:50:19,384 --> 00:50:23,703
Speaker 4: this position again. My wife, Mary Stembridge and and I

994
00:50:23,703 --> 00:50:27,623
Speaker 4: have been together for By the way, my entire family

995
00:50:27,703 --> 00:50:31,143
Speaker 4: knows this. Everything about me. There's not a thing that

996
00:50:31,223 --> 00:50:36,024
Speaker 4: my family doesn't know. So this is not a secret.

997
00:50:36,064 --> 00:50:38,823
Speaker 4: It's just difficult when you're talking about having had an

998
00:50:38,824 --> 00:50:41,904
Speaker 4: affair with somebody while you were married, you know, and

999
00:50:43,024 --> 00:50:46,183
Speaker 4: you've been now married for thirty two years. So if

1000
00:50:46,223 --> 00:50:48,344
Speaker 4: I stutter a little bit, it's a little bit because

1001
00:50:48,384 --> 00:50:54,503
Speaker 4: of that. But what makes me so happy to talk

1002
00:50:54,544 --> 00:50:57,463
Speaker 4: about it? Oh and then I don't want to. I will.

1003
00:50:57,504 --> 00:51:00,944
Speaker 4: I will explain what was going on in my head,

1004
00:51:03,104 --> 00:51:07,303
Speaker 4: not as an excuse. I'm very clear, and I was.

1005
00:51:08,743 --> 00:51:15,183
Speaker 4: I was blessed to have a conversation with Heather McGee,

1006
00:51:16,104 --> 00:51:19,344
Speaker 4: who is this brilliant lady, and her mother was brilliant,

1007
00:51:19,424 --> 00:51:21,544
Speaker 4: and she gave me an hour of her time. Mary

1008
00:51:21,584 --> 00:51:25,024
Speaker 4: and I were driving from OHI to LA and she talked, So,

1009
00:51:25,743 --> 00:51:30,504
Speaker 4: why would like to address this is and apologize forever?

1010
00:51:30,703 --> 00:51:34,504
Speaker 4: I am. I know what was in my heart. Yes,

1011
00:51:34,584 --> 00:51:37,584
Speaker 4: so I have no problem talking about this, but I

1012
00:51:37,703 --> 00:51:39,783
Speaker 4: need to and want to apologize for the rest of

1013
00:51:39,824 --> 00:51:43,424
Speaker 4: my life because somebody today can go on the internet

1014
00:51:43,663 --> 00:51:46,424
Speaker 4: You're right and go what the fuck? Yeah, wow, I

1015
00:51:46,464 --> 00:51:50,383
Speaker 4: feel betrayed, I feel angry and whatever. And I did that.

1016
00:51:52,623 --> 00:51:57,343
Speaker 4: So once again, this is not a you know, I've

1017
00:51:57,424 --> 00:52:00,663
Speaker 4: prefaced myself out of what's going on, but let me.

1018
00:52:00,703 --> 00:52:02,383
Speaker 4: Can I tell you what was going on? Because I

1019
00:52:02,424 --> 00:52:09,743
Speaker 4: think there are lessons you know, so and whoopee, I

1020
00:52:09,743 --> 00:52:13,263
Speaker 4: apologize if you're listening to you know, be talking. But

1021
00:52:15,544 --> 00:52:17,783
Speaker 4: Whoopy and I had had an affair. We were and

1022
00:52:18,183 --> 00:52:24,224
Speaker 4: it was ending and we actually uh asked the Friars Club.

1023
00:52:24,504 --> 00:52:26,463
Speaker 4: We had already agreed to do it, and then our

1024
00:52:26,504 --> 00:52:29,663
Speaker 4: relationship was ending, and we said, well we should get

1025
00:52:29,663 --> 00:52:31,744
Speaker 4: out of this, and they said we will sue you

1026
00:52:32,904 --> 00:52:35,464
Speaker 4: because they have the sold so many tickets.

1027
00:52:35,464 --> 00:52:37,904
Speaker 2: Oh showiz yeah, and again this is not really a

1028
00:52:37,904 --> 00:52:39,383
Speaker 2: public event, right, It's not.

1029
00:52:39,904 --> 00:52:49,584
Speaker 4: Supposedly and uh and so my brain was going, Okay,

1030
00:52:49,623 --> 00:52:54,424
Speaker 4: here is one of the most outrageous, funny, you know,

1031
00:52:55,743 --> 00:53:01,503
Speaker 4: black women in the world at that point, and I'm

1032
00:53:01,743 --> 00:53:05,024
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to be roasting her and I'm not. I'm

1033
00:53:05,024 --> 00:53:07,383
Speaker 4: not a stand up You're not I can't run with

1034
00:53:07,424 --> 00:53:12,143
Speaker 4: the bulls. I am you know, I'm actor in it, yes,

1035
00:53:12,263 --> 00:53:14,184
Speaker 4: and if the material is funny, I can be funny.

1036
00:53:14,584 --> 00:53:16,743
Speaker 4: And so I was what am I going to do?

1037
00:53:16,864 --> 00:53:18,904
Speaker 4: And then I thought, well, I can I can do

1038
00:53:19,024 --> 00:53:22,544
Speaker 4: performance theater, so I will do performance theater. And I

1039
00:53:22,544 --> 00:53:26,104
Speaker 4: looked at all these tapes and it's like, well, if I,

1040
00:53:26,464 --> 00:53:28,183
Speaker 4: you know, if I were black, I could say all

1041
00:53:28,223 --> 00:53:31,104
Speaker 4: these outrageous things I'm not. Then my mind went, well,

1042
00:53:31,143 --> 00:53:36,663
Speaker 4: I will do it in blackface. That will be funny

1043
00:53:36,743 --> 00:53:39,143
Speaker 4: or not, but it'll like be go oh, I have

1044
00:53:39,303 --> 00:53:44,104
Speaker 4: license now. And then the press in the news was

1045
00:53:44,623 --> 00:53:48,623
Speaker 4: not the healthy news where going after us, you know,

1046
00:53:49,223 --> 00:53:53,984
Speaker 4: mixed race an affair. It couldn't be because they liked

1047
00:53:54,024 --> 00:53:56,303
Speaker 4: each other. I saw something in each other. It had

1048
00:53:56,344 --> 00:53:59,224
Speaker 4: to be sex. It had to be just pure sex.

1049
00:53:59,303 --> 00:54:02,183
Speaker 4: That's the only reason for a relationship like this. And

1050
00:54:02,303 --> 00:54:08,863
Speaker 4: there was a lot of mean so my comedy and

1051
00:54:08,944 --> 00:54:17,383
Speaker 4: trying to address our relationship, and I didn't realize was

1052
00:54:17,384 --> 00:54:21,703
Speaker 4: getting darker and darker or angrier inside of me, so

1053
00:54:21,743 --> 00:54:24,744
Speaker 4: that the performance was the head a real fucking edge

1054
00:54:24,783 --> 00:54:28,623
Speaker 4: to it. But what I was describing was and oh

1055
00:54:28,703 --> 00:54:30,863
Speaker 4: and and whillpe. At that time, the part of her

1056
00:54:31,024 --> 00:54:35,623
Speaker 4: act was I don't care about using the N word.

1057
00:54:35,703 --> 00:54:39,984
Speaker 4: I don't do whatever you want because because the most eloquent,

1058
00:54:40,904 --> 00:54:44,024
Speaker 4: soft spoken person can take you off at the knees,

1059
00:54:44,584 --> 00:54:48,223
Speaker 4: they don't have to use nasty language. They can take

1060
00:54:48,263 --> 00:54:52,223
Speaker 4: you off, you know, they can be racist in their

1061
00:54:52,263 --> 00:54:57,663
Speaker 4: actions and be the sweetest talking human being. And it

1062
00:54:57,743 --> 00:54:59,823
Speaker 4: was part of her comedy bit. So I kind of

1063
00:54:59,904 --> 00:55:06,623
Speaker 4: latched onto that. Wow, once again, this is here, let

1064
00:55:06,623 --> 00:55:09,984
Speaker 4: me throw in. I thought I could pull I could

1065
00:55:10,024 --> 00:55:10,584
Speaker 4: pull this off.

1066
00:55:10,623 --> 00:55:11,143
Speaker 1: It was a high.

1067
00:55:11,183 --> 00:55:14,464
Speaker 4: I thought that there's no one been whiter than me

1068
00:55:14,743 --> 00:55:20,104
Speaker 4: in the world. That this white guy could have something

1069
00:55:20,384 --> 00:55:25,624
Speaker 4: valuable to say about race and race relations was so

1070
00:55:25,783 --> 00:55:30,743
Speaker 4: stupid and entitled, and I thought, oh, I can do.

1071
00:55:31,183 --> 00:55:35,223
Speaker 4: I can be you know, Robin Williams, I can be,

1072
00:55:35,464 --> 00:55:37,903
Speaker 4: I can step up there. I can pull this off.

1073
00:55:38,783 --> 00:55:41,784
Speaker 4: I know it's bold, but I can pull this off.

1074
00:55:43,024 --> 00:55:48,504
Speaker 4: And that was so arrogant and stupid on my part.

1075
00:55:48,824 --> 00:55:53,343
Speaker 4: So off I go, using all this horrendous language describing

1076
00:55:53,424 --> 00:55:58,623
Speaker 4: our love affair. Well also in black face, in blackface,

1077
00:55:59,303 --> 00:56:01,703
Speaker 4: and I'd run it past whoopee and all of that,

1078
00:56:01,904 --> 00:56:05,703
Speaker 4: and maybe she just did spelch my creativity.

1079
00:56:06,183 --> 00:56:06,424
Speaker 1: You know.

1080
00:56:06,703 --> 00:56:12,984
Speaker 4: I worked for months on this, by the way, months

1081
00:56:10,783 --> 00:56:20,744
Speaker 4: and within within twenty seconds, I was like, I stuck

1082
00:56:20,783 --> 00:56:23,663
Speaker 4: my finger in a light socket. Yeah yeah, and just

1083
00:56:24,783 --> 00:56:31,223
Speaker 4: and I went, Okay, twenty percent of the crowd, and

1084
00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:36,303
Speaker 4: this was a packed house. Twenty percent of the crowd

1085
00:56:37,024 --> 00:56:41,584
Speaker 4: gets this and thinks it's pretty cool and gets it. Yeah,

1086
00:56:42,064 --> 00:56:45,703
Speaker 4: thirty percent of the crowd gets it and fucking hates it.

1087
00:56:47,024 --> 00:56:50,104
Speaker 4: Thirty percent of the crowd didn't get it and hated

1088
00:56:50,143 --> 00:56:53,864
Speaker 4: it and hated me. Yeah, And I kept going.

1089
00:56:54,464 --> 00:56:56,464
Speaker 1: It's fine. I just want to say I'm physically like

1090
00:56:56,783 --> 00:56:59,703
Speaker 1: I feel when you're describing.

1091
00:56:59,743 --> 00:57:01,623
Speaker 2: I've read the story, I remember from back to day,

1092
00:57:01,703 --> 00:57:04,224
Speaker 2: but as you're describing as a performer, I'm like getting

1093
00:57:04,263 --> 00:57:06,303
Speaker 2: like flopsws, like like thinking about it.

1094
00:57:06,384 --> 00:57:09,984
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh oh, absolutely amazing, Like.

1095
00:57:09,904 --> 00:57:11,743
Speaker 1: I see myself like I'm like, why might rubbing my

1096
00:57:11,783 --> 00:57:12,383
Speaker 1: hands so once?

1097
00:57:12,984 --> 00:57:16,784
Speaker 2: Just because I feel that as every stent up comic

1098
00:57:16,824 --> 00:57:18,544
Speaker 2: has been through that, not with that bit, but like

1099
00:57:18,584 --> 00:57:22,744
Speaker 2: the like uh oh, especially comedians who pushed envelope this one,

1100
00:57:22,784 --> 00:57:23,664
Speaker 2: I may have gone too far.

1101
00:57:23,744 --> 00:57:25,903
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh it was And I and I thought I

1102
00:57:25,984 --> 00:57:30,024
Speaker 4: was doing a satire on race relationships inter you know,

1103
00:57:30,304 --> 00:57:35,584
Speaker 4: mixed couple relationship, And I thought I was being edgy. Yes,

1104
00:57:36,424 --> 00:57:39,184
Speaker 4: and but I was like all these edgy comics that

1105
00:57:39,584 --> 00:57:41,184
Speaker 4: I'd seen on the Friars Club.

1106
00:57:41,344 --> 00:57:43,624
Speaker 2: But also, to be fair, you also thought you were

1107
00:57:43,664 --> 00:57:47,784
Speaker 2: in a closed circuit. Yes, yes, I'm not yet you

1108
00:57:47,784 --> 00:57:51,904
Speaker 2: could still die and feel like that was awful, but

1109
00:57:52,024 --> 00:57:52,544
Speaker 2: you hadn't.

1110
00:57:52,704 --> 00:57:55,264
Speaker 1: But if somebody had said ted, there's a one percent

1111
00:57:55,344 --> 00:57:56,984
Speaker 1: chance to leave the room, it.

1112
00:57:56,944 --> 00:57:59,464
Speaker 4: Had left the room before I was, oh, oh my god,

1113
00:57:59,904 --> 00:58:04,184
Speaker 4: like somebody who I consider a sweet man. And we

1114
00:58:04,264 --> 00:58:06,903
Speaker 4: have had a conversation since then, So I think it's

1115
00:58:06,944 --> 00:58:10,343
Speaker 4: okay to say, Montell Williams went out and didn't show

1116
00:58:10,464 --> 00:58:13,903
Speaker 4: while we were still well, I was, you know, as

1117
00:58:13,944 --> 00:58:15,184
Speaker 4: I was finally.

1118
00:58:14,784 --> 00:58:17,064
Speaker 1: As you're still as you were still get into the close.

1119
00:58:17,064 --> 00:58:19,184
Speaker 4: My heart was, you know, blood was still coming out

1120
00:58:19,184 --> 00:58:23,904
Speaker 4: of and so that is so was immediately out in

1121
00:58:23,944 --> 00:58:28,264
Speaker 4: the world. We got back to the hotel and there

1122
00:58:28,344 --> 00:58:32,584
Speaker 4: was we had to get on the phone with Mayor Dinkins. Yeah,

1123
00:58:33,904 --> 00:58:39,463
Speaker 4: and we did no but he heard about it, yea.

1124
00:58:40,144 --> 00:58:43,264
Speaker 4: And my poor manager said he couldn't open the door

1125
00:58:43,624 --> 00:58:46,664
Speaker 4: into his hotel because there was so many messages stuck

1126
00:58:46,824 --> 00:58:53,824
Speaker 4: under the door. We did. Uh what was the network?

1127
00:58:53,904 --> 00:58:56,944
Speaker 4: What was it called back then? Beat?

1128
00:58:57,744 --> 00:58:57,903
Speaker 5: Uh?

1129
00:58:59,824 --> 00:59:04,704
Speaker 4: The audience was African American ett. Yes, sorry, we did

1130
00:59:04,744 --> 00:59:08,784
Speaker 4: an interview together over the months, you know, the weeks

1131
00:59:08,864 --> 00:59:15,024
Speaker 4: after that cretit King sent a message to to Whoopee

1132
00:59:15,144 --> 00:59:20,863
Speaker 4: that was of support. Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's

1133
00:59:20,904 --> 00:59:25,544
Speaker 4: my explanation yea. And over the years, because I have

1134
00:59:25,624 --> 00:59:28,424
Speaker 4: to throw Mary into this because it affects Mary that

1135
00:59:28,544 --> 00:59:32,784
Speaker 4: I'm saying this. Mary was sweet and gentle with me,

1136
00:59:33,024 --> 00:59:38,704
Speaker 4: but early on but just couldn't understand, you know this.

1137
00:59:40,144 --> 00:59:42,744
Speaker 4: She had done all this work, civil rights work and

1138
00:59:42,824 --> 00:59:45,184
Speaker 4: this and that, and she couldn't understand it. So I

1139
00:59:45,224 --> 00:59:49,343
Speaker 4: don't want to think that anyone associated with me got it.

1140
00:59:49,464 --> 00:59:50,504
Speaker 1: Yeah, they weren't all like this.

1141
00:59:51,504 --> 00:59:56,544
Speaker 4: You No, they didn't. And and when Black Lives Matter

1142
00:59:58,584 --> 01:00:01,264
Speaker 4: surface during this time, I think it came out in

1143
01:00:01,304 --> 01:00:04,024
Speaker 4: the press a little bit that I had. Somebody brought

1144
01:00:04,024 --> 01:00:07,984
Speaker 4: it up, and I, you know, I got dropped a

1145
01:00:07,984 --> 01:00:13,584
Speaker 4: little bit from certain things, corporate things, and I was scared.

1146
01:00:14,584 --> 01:00:17,863
Speaker 4: And that's when I reached out. Jane Funda actually sent

1147
01:00:17,904 --> 01:00:21,064
Speaker 4: me up to talk to Heather, who I am forever

1148
01:00:21,184 --> 01:00:25,424
Speaker 4: grateful for because she heard my story. She got it

1149
01:00:25,464 --> 01:00:33,784
Speaker 4: and she said, Ann, some kid is gonna not that

1150
01:00:34,184 --> 01:00:36,944
Speaker 4: your heart will be broken because you love to dance it,

1151
01:00:36,984 --> 01:00:41,984
Speaker 4: but will be shocked and diminished and hurt by what

1152
01:00:42,024 --> 01:00:46,104
Speaker 4: he sees. So I am forever apologetic and the other

1153
01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:53,984
Speaker 4: thing I used to say, for the longest time, I

1154
01:00:54,024 --> 01:00:58,984
Speaker 4: knew what my intention was. My intention was love. It

1155
01:00:59,024 --> 01:01:03,823
Speaker 4: doesn't matter. Your intentions do not matter. The impact you

1156
01:01:03,864 --> 01:01:06,824
Speaker 4: have on people is what matters. And if you haven't

1157
01:01:06,904 --> 01:01:11,624
Speaker 4: thought through that, then you need to don't think you're

1158
01:01:13,824 --> 01:01:16,384
Speaker 4: you know, I thought I could run with the big boys,

1159
01:01:16,664 --> 01:01:19,104
Speaker 4: and I couldn't and it was stupid and it was

1160
01:01:19,664 --> 01:01:22,144
Speaker 4: not my place and it was wrong and it was

1161
01:01:22,264 --> 01:01:26,863
Speaker 4: hurtful and I for the longest time, but my, but my,

1162
01:01:27,024 --> 01:01:29,584
Speaker 4: I know my intentions. I I know that that was

1163
01:01:29,624 --> 01:01:34,343
Speaker 4: the last thing in the world. Well tough, you did it, yeah,

1164
01:01:34,544 --> 01:01:38,664
Speaker 4: and you've had this impact. So I apologize again for

1165
01:01:40,024 --> 01:01:45,184
Speaker 4: to anyone who's listening that I was arrogant enough to

1166
01:01:45,304 --> 01:01:47,664
Speaker 4: think that I had something to offer.

1167
01:01:49,184 --> 01:01:49,304
Speaker 2: Uh.

1168
01:01:50,744 --> 01:01:52,144
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1169
01:01:52,664 --> 01:01:54,024
Speaker 2: First of all, I just want to say thank you

1170
01:01:54,064 --> 01:01:56,144
Speaker 2: for all of that, because thank you, because I had

1171
01:01:56,304 --> 01:01:58,624
Speaker 2: no I knew I wanted to talk about it, but

1172
01:01:58,704 --> 01:02:01,304
Speaker 2: I certainly I want to be clear, it wasn't an

1173
01:02:01,304 --> 01:02:03,784
Speaker 2: effort to get you to make another apology like no,

1174
01:02:03,864 --> 01:02:04,104
Speaker 2: and I.

1175
01:02:07,184 --> 01:02:12,584
Speaker 4: Thank you, and I I think you were actually offering

1176
01:02:12,624 --> 01:02:16,424
Speaker 4: me out of kindness to say something. If I wanted

1177
01:02:17,024 --> 01:02:21,903
Speaker 4: and yeah, but it's tough because it sounds like, oh good,

1178
01:02:22,024 --> 01:02:25,784
Speaker 4: this is this I am. You know, you've given me

1179
01:02:25,904 --> 01:02:29,984
Speaker 4: your It's okay, Ted, I love you anyway, but I

1180
01:02:30,464 --> 01:02:34,863
Speaker 4: don't even yeah, I don't even well, actually I do

1181
01:02:35,024 --> 01:02:37,104
Speaker 4: need that, but yeah, it's not the why.

1182
01:02:37,424 --> 01:02:38,543
Speaker 1: But let's be clear.

1183
01:02:39,224 --> 01:02:41,264
Speaker 2: This is the thing I would coldings and I see

1184
01:02:41,384 --> 01:02:43,704
Speaker 2: I've seen it pop up every now and again, like,

1185
01:02:44,464 --> 01:02:45,343
Speaker 2: but it's a thing.

1186
01:02:45,624 --> 01:02:46,864
Speaker 1: So what year was it?

1187
01:02:48,664 --> 01:02:48,903
Speaker 4: Two?

1188
01:02:49,024 --> 01:02:55,944
Speaker 2: Maybe there are adults with children walking around now since

1189
01:02:55,944 --> 01:02:57,664
Speaker 2: you do you know what I mean? Like, this is

1190
01:02:57,704 --> 01:02:59,704
Speaker 2: like to me, a part of this is like I've

1191
01:02:59,704 --> 01:03:03,424
Speaker 2: seen the man who you've been since then, and I

1192
01:03:03,464 --> 01:03:07,624
Speaker 2: think that that has only proven to me. First of all,

1193
01:03:08,104 --> 01:03:10,824
Speaker 2: we all, we all, we all make different types of mistakes,

1194
01:03:11,184 --> 01:03:13,544
Speaker 2: not trying to rank mistakes, but we all make we

1195
01:03:13,584 --> 01:03:16,624
Speaker 2: all make mistakes in life. This business is brutal, which

1196
01:03:16,824 --> 01:03:19,264
Speaker 2: which I can say. But the thing that I've seen

1197
01:03:19,344 --> 01:03:22,064
Speaker 2: and if you had not been who you were since then,

1198
01:03:22,304 --> 01:03:23,823
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're talking right now, well we're

1199
01:03:23,864 --> 01:03:25,744
Speaker 2: not talking right now. You know, if that had been

1200
01:03:25,984 --> 01:03:29,383
Speaker 2: as they say, if you're the phrases, that was my

1201
01:03:29,464 --> 01:03:32,423
Speaker 2: village and that was my villain origin story, Like, if

1202
01:03:32,464 --> 01:03:35,624
Speaker 2: that is where you were, like, well, then screw black people, you.

1203
01:03:35,544 --> 01:03:36,024
Speaker 1: Know what I mean?

1204
01:03:36,184 --> 01:03:38,304
Speaker 2: If you were like if you and some people have

1205
01:03:38,424 --> 01:03:41,104
Speaker 2: done those things, when they get called out for things

1206
01:03:41,144 --> 01:03:43,903
Speaker 2: like that, they suddenly go like to it, they go

1207
01:03:43,984 --> 01:03:46,704
Speaker 2: down a dark path and then they become the advocate

1208
01:03:46,744 --> 01:03:47,624
Speaker 2: for like you know.

1209
01:03:47,864 --> 01:03:48,984
Speaker 1: And also, let's think about this.

1210
01:03:49,224 --> 01:03:51,784
Speaker 2: You dealt with virality and cancel culture before we had

1211
01:03:51,824 --> 01:03:55,383
Speaker 2: words for it. Your that event went viral. You were

1212
01:03:55,464 --> 01:03:58,264
Speaker 2: people trying to cancel you. And when people and we've

1213
01:03:58,264 --> 01:04:01,624
Speaker 2: seen it happen in recent years with white men like yourselves,

1214
01:04:01,664 --> 01:04:03,903
Speaker 2: when they get when they go when they get caught

1215
01:04:03,904 --> 01:04:08,423
Speaker 2: out doing bad things and they instead of saying like, wow,

1216
01:04:08,744 --> 01:04:10,664
Speaker 2: I got a lot to learn from this and I

1217
01:04:10,704 --> 01:04:12,823
Speaker 2: need to spend time dealing with it. And the fact

1218
01:04:12,864 --> 01:04:15,184
Speaker 2: that you even dealt with it in more recent years

1219
01:04:16,024 --> 01:04:19,264
Speaker 2: speaks to who you are and why I would want

1220
01:04:19,264 --> 01:04:21,383
Speaker 2: to talk to you, you know, like and why I

1221
01:04:21,424 --> 01:04:23,064
Speaker 2: sort of look at this guy's like, this guy is

1222
01:04:23,104 --> 01:04:24,784
Speaker 2: not First of all, he's not Sam Malone.

1223
01:04:25,504 --> 01:04:27,823
Speaker 1: He's not like he was always more than that.

1224
01:04:29,864 --> 01:04:33,624
Speaker 2: And I've seen this guy it's only become more admirable

1225
01:04:33,824 --> 01:04:37,184
Speaker 2: to me that you have spent so much time publicly

1226
01:04:37,224 --> 01:04:38,544
Speaker 2: dealing with it, or you spend a lot of time

1227
01:04:38,544 --> 01:04:42,224
Speaker 2: publicly dealing with it because most people don't.

1228
01:04:42,984 --> 01:04:43,343
Speaker 1: I know.

1229
01:04:43,424 --> 01:04:44,824
Speaker 4: I mean we were even today.

1230
01:04:44,824 --> 01:04:46,704
Speaker 2: You could have said to me I would talk to

1231
01:04:46,704 --> 01:04:50,264
Speaker 2: about anything comal. That's a long time ago. Let's not

1232
01:04:50,344 --> 01:04:52,304
Speaker 2: do that. So even though and what I want to

1233
01:04:52,344 --> 01:04:55,343
Speaker 2: reflect you now here's more Flowers. I know this thing

1234
01:04:55,384 --> 01:04:57,943
Speaker 2: that you're doing right now is going to teach other

1235
01:04:58,104 --> 01:05:00,304
Speaker 2: white people like yourself how to do that.

1236
01:05:18,624 --> 01:05:22,784
Speaker 4: Heather McGee didn't just teach me. She was hoping that

1237
01:05:22,824 --> 01:05:26,264
Speaker 4: I would say this, and I wasn't ready. I was scared.

1238
01:05:26,984 --> 01:05:29,544
Speaker 4: I was scared. You know, Oh I'm there, I go.

1239
01:05:29,824 --> 01:05:32,424
Speaker 4: This will be who I am forever and I'll be

1240
01:05:33,264 --> 01:05:38,264
Speaker 4: you know whatever. So I'm glad, I am. I'm grateful.

1241
01:05:38,304 --> 01:05:41,824
Speaker 4: And this is more to what Heather McGee was saying.

1242
01:05:42,104 --> 01:05:45,024
Speaker 4: She wasn't giving me a pass. She was saying, this

1243
01:05:45,064 --> 01:05:48,224
Speaker 4: is an opportunity that I hope you take. I didn't then,

1244
01:05:48,304 --> 01:05:51,383
Speaker 4: and I feel like so I'm grateful for this. The

1245
01:05:51,464 --> 01:05:54,544
Speaker 4: other thing that opened me up to besides your intentions

1246
01:05:54,584 --> 01:05:59,704
Speaker 4: don't matter, I mean they matter, but they don't. Intentions

1247
01:05:59,704 --> 01:06:02,863
Speaker 4: does not say some kid opening this up and being

1248
01:06:03,344 --> 01:06:04,224
Speaker 4: hurt and angry.

1249
01:06:04,424 --> 01:06:06,864
Speaker 2: So I was combined. It just boiled down to like

1250
01:06:06,904 --> 01:06:08,984
Speaker 2: it's like stepping on somebody's foot. You didn't mean to

1251
01:06:09,024 --> 01:06:09,343
Speaker 2: do it.

1252
01:06:09,424 --> 01:06:15,584
Speaker 4: Well, guess what broke the person's foot. Yeah, I want

1253
01:06:15,584 --> 01:06:18,424
Speaker 4: to hold onto this. Oh the other thing that it

1254
01:06:18,584 --> 01:06:20,304
Speaker 4: opened up to me. And this wasn't just me. The

1255
01:06:20,344 --> 01:06:24,943
Speaker 4: whole world was looking at it. And it's an interesting conversation.

1256
01:06:25,584 --> 01:06:27,544
Speaker 4: I don't know if I've earned the right to move on.

1257
01:06:27,704 --> 01:06:34,184
Speaker 4: I'm doing to expand this conversation. That's me, I I

1258
01:06:34,544 --> 01:06:37,823
Speaker 4: I have a lump in my throat that I am

1259
01:06:38,024 --> 01:06:41,503
Speaker 4: that is also me, you know, but there you are.

1260
01:06:42,064 --> 01:06:47,304
Speaker 4: So anyway, during this time Black Lives Matter, we started

1261
01:06:47,304 --> 01:06:56,064
Speaker 4: talking about systemic racism where you you know, actually my

1262
01:06:56,144 --> 01:07:02,184
Speaker 4: ancestors did, let's come full circles according to you know,

1263
01:07:02,704 --> 01:07:08,344
Speaker 4: the research done by Skip Gates. You know. But but

1264
01:07:08,344 --> 01:07:12,584
Speaker 4: but it's not it's not that you are an act

1265
01:07:12,624 --> 01:07:20,864
Speaker 4: of virulent racist. To be complicit. Complicit can be looking

1266
01:07:20,904 --> 01:07:23,384
Speaker 4: the other way or going oh my god, that's horrible

1267
01:07:23,424 --> 01:07:30,624
Speaker 4: and changing the channel, or are not realizing that you know,

1268
01:07:30,864 --> 01:07:36,503
Speaker 4: you're I was complicit by not sharing my story when

1269
01:07:36,504 --> 01:07:39,984
Speaker 4: it came out. You know, I'm not trying to beat

1270
01:07:40,024 --> 01:07:46,784
Speaker 4: myself up, but there's a lot of acknowledging the hiss

1271
01:07:46,984 --> 01:07:51,664
Speaker 4: the truth of society and life and what people deal with,

1272
01:07:51,704 --> 01:07:54,343
Speaker 4: and it doesn't And here's the thing that I think

1273
01:07:54,384 --> 01:07:57,104
Speaker 4: we have to figure out, because I'm sure there are

1274
01:07:57,104 --> 01:07:59,144
Speaker 4: a lot of people out there that go, fuck you,

1275
01:07:59,264 --> 01:08:03,224
Speaker 4: I'm not a racist, you know, and so they don't

1276
01:08:03,264 --> 01:08:07,744
Speaker 4: want to deal or hear with it. But it's like,

1277
01:08:07,984 --> 01:08:11,824
Speaker 4: I it's okay to say that you're wrong. It's okay

1278
01:08:11,864 --> 01:08:15,584
Speaker 4: to say I mean, our fights in my house with

1279
01:08:15,704 --> 01:08:20,344
Speaker 4: Mary are only when I'm wrong because I don't want

1280
01:08:20,344 --> 01:08:24,384
Speaker 4: to be that person that she just described to me

1281
01:08:24,544 --> 01:08:28,064
Speaker 4: because of my behavior. I can't tolerate that. I can't

1282
01:08:28,144 --> 01:08:30,983
Speaker 4: let that pass. I'm not that person, Oh.

1283
01:08:30,784 --> 01:08:32,504
Speaker 1: Shit, I am.

1284
01:08:33,544 --> 01:08:37,304
Speaker 4: I'm other things as well, But I am also that

1285
01:08:37,584 --> 01:08:40,184
Speaker 4: bad thing that you just described that I don't like

1286
01:08:40,224 --> 01:08:42,904
Speaker 4: the sound of. And I think that's a lot of

1287
01:08:42,944 --> 01:08:45,864
Speaker 4: the fuck you I'm not a racist out there in

1288
01:08:45,904 --> 01:08:50,584
Speaker 4: the world. It's like that's you're missing the point. You know,

1289
01:08:50,744 --> 01:08:55,744
Speaker 4: no one's trying to blame you or hold you responsible

1290
01:08:55,824 --> 01:09:00,144
Speaker 4: for what people did you know a century or two ago.

1291
01:09:01,264 --> 01:09:05,224
Speaker 4: But look, around. You don't have to. We're not asking

1292
01:09:05,264 --> 01:09:08,704
Speaker 4: you to be guilty. Who gives a shit? Oh, I

1293
01:09:08,744 --> 01:09:13,784
Speaker 4: have some other horrible confessions. I know this is funny.

1294
01:09:13,824 --> 01:09:15,704
Speaker 4: This is this is wonderfully white.

1295
01:09:15,824 --> 01:09:19,624
Speaker 1: Okay, wonderfully white now under our segment, wonderfully white.

1296
01:09:19,624 --> 01:09:22,664
Speaker 4: With that both people I said this to laugh in

1297
01:09:22,744 --> 01:09:26,184
Speaker 4: my face and said goodbye, not goodbye forever. Just thought

1298
01:09:26,224 --> 01:09:29,744
Speaker 4: it was very funny. Where I called and in tears

1299
01:09:29,864 --> 01:09:33,944
Speaker 4: apologized to my black friends. You know, fuck you. I

1300
01:09:33,944 --> 01:09:36,824
Speaker 4: don't need Trump. It wasn't fuck you because they loved me,

1301
01:09:37,864 --> 01:09:41,264
Speaker 4: like laughing at I'll talk. You're the tenth white person

1302
01:09:41,304 --> 01:09:43,064
Speaker 4: to call me in the last half hour. Thank you

1303
01:09:43,144 --> 01:09:45,984
Speaker 4: for your thank you for your apology. You know, no,

1304
01:09:46,224 --> 01:09:50,024
Speaker 4: and you don't need I mean, that's the thing. It's

1305
01:09:50,104 --> 01:09:53,264
Speaker 4: like getting rid of the whole thing that's now getting

1306
01:09:53,344 --> 01:09:55,904
Speaker 4: rid of black history, getting you know, all of that

1307
01:09:56,024 --> 01:09:58,424
Speaker 4: is trying to erase. You don't need to do that

1308
01:09:58,744 --> 01:10:03,903
Speaker 4: to not feel guilty. Just deal with the truth and

1309
01:10:04,184 --> 01:10:07,824
Speaker 4: take action to make it better, to change it. I mean,

1310
01:10:07,864 --> 01:10:11,744
Speaker 4: that's what is necessary and what makes you bliicit is

1311
01:10:11,784 --> 01:10:15,704
Speaker 4: not taking action and making something better.

1312
01:10:16,344 --> 01:10:17,104
Speaker 1: Yes, does that?

1313
01:10:17,224 --> 01:10:19,744
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? You don't need people. You

1314
01:10:19,744 --> 01:10:21,464
Speaker 4: don't need white people to feel guilty.

1315
01:10:21,824 --> 01:10:25,064
Speaker 2: No, I mean, we don't need your guiltiness to be

1316
01:10:25,104 --> 01:10:27,624
Speaker 2: your only reaction. I'm finding if you feel a little guilty,

1317
01:10:27,904 --> 01:10:30,504
Speaker 2: but now move into action. Yes, Like, I'm like, you know,

1318
01:10:30,544 --> 01:10:33,144
Speaker 2: I'm fine if you're like, man, I feel like.

1319
01:10:33,344 --> 01:10:37,144
Speaker 4: I feel guilty for what you did, what you're doing

1320
01:10:37,264 --> 01:10:40,424
Speaker 4: or did. You don't have to feel guilty about your great,

1321
01:10:40,464 --> 01:10:42,224
Speaker 4: great great I'll say your grandfather.

1322
01:10:42,384 --> 01:10:44,864
Speaker 1: You just need to be aware of you better than him.

1323
01:10:45,224 --> 01:10:45,624
Speaker 1: I think so.

1324
01:10:45,944 --> 01:10:49,024
Speaker 2: I say as a man that I think the way

1325
01:10:49,064 --> 01:10:51,144
Speaker 2: I sort of understood how to talk to white people

1326
01:10:51,184 --> 01:10:54,584
Speaker 2: out racism is because I understood how women talk to

1327
01:10:54,624 --> 01:10:56,264
Speaker 2: me about sexism and misogyny.

1328
01:10:56,424 --> 01:10:57,863
Speaker 1: That's great, Like, it's.

1329
01:10:57,784 --> 01:11:01,424
Speaker 2: Like, look, you may not be the worst example of

1330
01:11:01,504 --> 01:11:05,344
Speaker 2: sexism misogyny, but you're still doing things that are feeding

1331
01:11:05,384 --> 01:11:09,624
Speaker 2: into it. So don't compare yourself to the worst. Compare

1332
01:11:09,624 --> 01:11:12,424
Speaker 2: yourself to the person that you know you want to be. Yeah,

1333
01:11:12,464 --> 01:11:15,224
Speaker 2: And that was like the like, uh uh so, because

1334
01:11:15,264 --> 01:11:16,504
Speaker 2: I can always go, well, look, I'm.

1335
01:11:16,344 --> 01:11:19,664
Speaker 1: Not that guy. Why you compare yourself to that guy?

1336
01:11:19,904 --> 01:11:20,104
Speaker 1: You know?

1337
01:11:20,264 --> 01:11:22,664
Speaker 2: Compare yourself to the people who are not doing that,

1338
01:11:22,784 --> 01:11:25,664
Speaker 2: who are compare yourself to the best version of yourself,

1339
01:11:25,904 --> 01:11:27,344
Speaker 2: And so for me, it was like as soon as

1340
01:11:27,344 --> 01:11:28,864
Speaker 2: that happened, I was like, Okay, I get it now.

1341
01:11:28,864 --> 01:11:29,624
Speaker 1: And then God was.

1342
01:11:29,584 --> 01:11:31,664
Speaker 2: Like, you will have three daughters, so you will think

1343
01:11:31,664 --> 01:11:33,384
Speaker 2: about this every day, so I don't have to think

1344
01:11:33,384 --> 01:11:38,464
Speaker 2: about like how like with racism, it's not even like

1345
01:11:38,624 --> 01:11:42,664
Speaker 2: it's like I feel bad when my daughter comes home

1346
01:11:42,664 --> 01:11:45,944
Speaker 2: and tells me like shitty things boys do in middle school,

1347
01:11:45,984 --> 01:11:48,264
Speaker 2: I'm like, I do feel a sense of guilt about

1348
01:11:48,264 --> 01:11:51,264
Speaker 2: like why are you? Why are we like that? What

1349
01:11:51,304 --> 01:11:53,304
Speaker 2: I also do is give her tools to deal with that.

1350
01:11:53,984 --> 01:11:55,544
Speaker 2: And I've seen the same thing with racism, Like I

1351
01:11:55,544 --> 01:11:57,504
Speaker 2: think it's fine if you've I you know, sometimes I

1352
01:11:57,504 --> 01:11:59,424
Speaker 2: wish white people felt more guilty, you know what I mean,

1353
01:11:59,464 --> 01:12:01,464
Speaker 2: because I felt like, not you, I think you feel

1354
01:12:01,504 --> 01:12:03,984
Speaker 2: plenty guilty. But I think so many white people have

1355
01:12:04,024 --> 01:12:07,784
Speaker 2: divorced themselves from from race and racism because they don't

1356
01:12:07,784 --> 01:12:10,384
Speaker 2: want to feel anything about it, and then they think, well,

1357
01:12:10,424 --> 01:12:12,464
Speaker 2: if you, if these people just worked harder, it would

1358
01:12:12,464 --> 01:12:12,824
Speaker 2: be better.

1359
01:12:12,904 --> 01:12:15,064
Speaker 4: No, When I do something wrong and Mary calls me

1360
01:12:15,144 --> 01:12:16,984
Speaker 4: on it, or I behave a certain way and she

1361
01:12:17,064 --> 01:12:19,184
Speaker 4: calls I mean and I don't want to be perceived

1362
01:12:19,184 --> 01:12:22,584
Speaker 4: that way, so we have a fight. When I do go,

1363
01:12:22,664 --> 01:12:27,464
Speaker 4: oh shoot, I am that I do feel bad. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

1364
01:12:27,544 --> 01:12:32,704
Speaker 4: but I'm not stuck defending an indefensible position. I can

1365
01:12:32,784 --> 01:12:36,824
Speaker 4: move on. Yeah, that's what I think. That's better way

1366
01:12:36,824 --> 01:12:37,344
Speaker 4: I'm saying.

1367
01:12:37,464 --> 01:12:39,943
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think shame can be an engine for change

1368
01:12:40,144 --> 01:12:41,384
Speaker 2: as far as i'm I think.

1369
01:12:41,264 --> 01:12:44,064
Speaker 4: Sometimes we start can be an engine to keep you stuck.

1370
01:12:44,304 --> 01:12:46,024
Speaker 2: And that's and that's what they use it as an

1371
01:12:46,024 --> 01:12:48,384
Speaker 2: engine for change, because I think sometimes shame gets a

1372
01:12:48,384 --> 01:12:50,624
Speaker 2: bad rap because people like if I feel you shouldn't

1373
01:12:50,624 --> 01:12:52,744
Speaker 2: make people feel shame. I oh no, no, people should

1374
01:12:52,744 --> 01:12:54,784
Speaker 2: then feel shame and use that shame to like sort

1375
01:12:54,784 --> 01:12:56,344
Speaker 2: of turn into a better person.

1376
01:12:56,504 --> 01:12:58,104
Speaker 4: I get up in the morning out of shame. I

1377
01:12:58,184 --> 01:13:00,264
Speaker 4: go to the bathroom out of shame. I do everything

1378
01:13:00,304 --> 01:13:01,704
Speaker 4: out of I am shame.

1379
01:13:01,504 --> 01:13:04,224
Speaker 2: Based exactly as long as it's getting you out of

1380
01:13:04,264 --> 01:13:07,264
Speaker 2: bed and moving you through the day to be a

1381
01:13:07,264 --> 01:13:08,104
Speaker 2: better version of yourself.

1382
01:13:08,264 --> 01:13:10,064
Speaker 1: And I do one last thing, yes, and then I'll

1383
01:13:10,104 --> 01:13:10,264
Speaker 1: do that.

1384
01:13:10,344 --> 01:13:14,504
Speaker 4: I know that everything I've just said, even my pontificating

1385
01:13:14,584 --> 01:13:18,744
Speaker 4: after my story, everything, I know that I am totally

1386
01:13:18,784 --> 01:13:23,184
Speaker 4: capable of being an off based asshole. And I'm alright

1387
01:13:23,264 --> 01:13:27,264
Speaker 4: with that, meaning fine, yeah I get it, and I

1388
01:13:27,344 --> 01:13:34,584
Speaker 4: am or can be or whatever. So yeah, I don't,

1389
01:13:34,624 --> 01:13:39,384
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1390
01:13:35,864 --> 01:13:35,944
Speaker 3: I.

1391
01:13:37,784 --> 01:13:38,104
Speaker 1: Need to.

1392
01:13:38,184 --> 01:13:42,744
Speaker 4: I also want to walk away being able to go yeah,

1393
01:13:42,864 --> 01:13:48,064
Speaker 4: I did that and without any caveats or or explanations

1394
01:13:48,304 --> 01:13:50,664
Speaker 4: or good guy whitewash.

1395
01:13:51,224 --> 01:13:51,984
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.

1396
01:13:52,024 --> 01:13:54,584
Speaker 2: And again I want to say, I wouldn't have you

1397
01:13:54,664 --> 01:13:57,184
Speaker 2: in this chair if I wasn't clear about who you are.

1398
01:13:57,824 --> 01:14:00,504
Speaker 2: And and and I know that, like even you bring

1399
01:14:00,544 --> 01:14:03,224
Speaker 2: it up means that some asshole somewhere is going to

1400
01:14:03,264 --> 01:14:06,064
Speaker 2: make a headline that says blah blah blah, and that

1401
01:14:06,144 --> 01:14:08,104
Speaker 2: maybe we'll be Goldberg might have to address it up

1402
01:14:08,144 --> 01:14:10,784
Speaker 2: a few something and I and I know that you're

1403
01:14:10,784 --> 01:14:13,024
Speaker 2: sort of I understand why you're careful about that as

1404
01:14:13,064 --> 01:14:14,744
Speaker 2: a person who has my own things that I've done

1405
01:14:15,064 --> 01:14:17,384
Speaker 2: that weren't at the Friars Club in front of everybody.

1406
01:14:17,424 --> 01:14:18,904
Speaker 2: And I feel like, and I think, if I think

1407
01:14:18,944 --> 01:14:21,584
Speaker 2: about them now, start to turn into a turtle, Like

1408
01:14:21,904 --> 01:14:23,904
Speaker 2: I understand the bravery that it takes to do that.

1409
01:14:23,904 --> 01:14:25,704
Speaker 1: And I was understand that, like you.

1410
01:14:25,584 --> 01:14:27,944
Speaker 2: Are a great example for people who are for white

1411
01:14:27,984 --> 01:14:30,224
Speaker 2: people sertifically who are stuck in these things and don't

1412
01:14:30,224 --> 01:14:31,784
Speaker 2: know how to get out of them, and then often

1413
01:14:31,824 --> 01:14:33,624
Speaker 2: double down. So I just want to say, we're going

1414
01:14:33,664 --> 01:14:35,064
Speaker 2: to leave that discussion.

1415
01:14:34,624 --> 01:14:37,664
Speaker 4: With and can I throw Mary in there again by

1416
01:14:37,744 --> 01:14:42,024
Speaker 4: saying my wife Mary did not get it. Yeah, was

1417
01:14:42,144 --> 01:14:45,784
Speaker 4: gentle with me, but never never ever went oh I

1418
01:14:45,904 --> 01:14:47,664
Speaker 4: understand or oh I get that.

1419
01:14:47,704 --> 01:14:49,904
Speaker 1: She didn't punch it up for you.

1420
01:14:50,264 --> 01:14:54,424
Speaker 4: She was sing salvo of you have something to learn.

1421
01:14:55,184 --> 01:15:00,824
Speaker 4: So I don't want Whoopee or Mary or anyone to

1422
01:15:00,904 --> 01:15:05,904
Speaker 4: get smeared by this by association at all, because that

1423
01:15:06,504 --> 01:15:10,304
Speaker 4: was me thinking I arrogantly think and I could pull.

1424
01:15:10,144 --> 01:15:12,144
Speaker 1: This off well. First Well, so I just want to

1425
01:15:12,144 --> 01:15:13,464
Speaker 1: say thank you all.

1426
01:15:13,504 --> 01:15:15,464
Speaker 2: That was again I sort of thought I want to

1427
01:15:15,464 --> 01:15:17,624
Speaker 2: talk about it, but clearly I'm glad that we got

1428
01:15:17,664 --> 01:15:20,464
Speaker 2: there so you could say these things because that is powerful,

1429
01:15:20,624 --> 01:15:23,104
Speaker 2: and we're going to move on to something, all right.

1430
01:15:23,184 --> 01:15:26,984
Speaker 2: I want to hear for people, let's say, in the

1431
01:15:27,024 --> 01:15:34,344
Speaker 2: time capsule, we need to put in Ted Danson's greatest performances.

1432
01:15:34,984 --> 01:15:35,744
Speaker 1: Highlighted that or.

1433
01:15:35,784 --> 01:15:38,504
Speaker 2: Loved that, but I really feel like that really represents

1434
01:15:38,544 --> 01:15:39,864
Speaker 2: me well, or that's something wrong.

1435
01:15:39,944 --> 01:15:42,744
Speaker 4: I love so much of Board to Death, which was

1436
01:15:42,784 --> 01:15:48,344
Speaker 4: an HBO show Jason Schwartzman and zach Alavianachus and many

1437
01:15:48,384 --> 01:15:55,584
Speaker 4: others and written by Jonathan Ames, and I just loved it.

1438
01:15:55,584 --> 01:15:57,784
Speaker 4: It was kind of that perfect time in my life

1439
01:15:57,824 --> 01:16:03,264
Speaker 4: when I was sixty and I was in the Hey,

1440
01:16:03,304 --> 01:16:06,104
Speaker 4: wait for me, don't leave me out. You know there's

1441
01:16:06,264 --> 01:16:09,664
Speaker 4: what th guys, Yeah, let me let me be part

1442
01:16:09,664 --> 01:16:12,584
Speaker 4: of that. I'm still a layer, you know. It was

1443
01:16:12,624 --> 01:16:15,904
Speaker 4: that fear of being left out, and my character had

1444
01:16:15,944 --> 01:16:19,384
Speaker 4: that too. I had that as well, and so it

1445
01:16:19,424 --> 01:16:22,464
Speaker 4: was one of those wonderful and it was just it's

1446
01:16:22,504 --> 01:16:27,904
Speaker 4: a lot. Jonathan Names is one of those innocents who

1447
01:16:27,984 --> 01:16:32,864
Speaker 4: sarcasm literally you have to coach him through you being sarcastic.

1448
01:16:33,784 --> 01:16:36,184
Speaker 4: You know, if you didn't get any sleep last night,

1449
01:16:36,304 --> 01:16:37,984
Speaker 4: and he says how is your night? And you go,

1450
01:16:38,024 --> 01:16:43,904
Speaker 4: oh great, He goes, oh good, you know. And yet

1451
01:16:44,184 --> 01:16:49,903
Speaker 4: in that innocence which he can, he writes from there'sn't

1452
01:16:49,904 --> 01:16:53,744
Speaker 4: a perversion. He hasn't jumped, you know, feet first into

1453
01:16:54,584 --> 01:17:02,424
Speaker 4: So it's this wonderful innocent perversions. Innocent is really highly entertaining.

1454
01:17:02,544 --> 01:17:05,744
Speaker 4: Perhaps perversions a scary word, but.

1455
01:17:06,224 --> 01:17:08,144
Speaker 1: He perversion as far as like a skew.

1456
01:17:08,544 --> 01:17:13,424
Speaker 4: Yeah, just wonderfully askew always, And so I loved pretty

1457
01:17:13,504 --> 01:17:20,824
Speaker 4: much everything in that show. Listening to his friends say

1458
01:17:20,864 --> 01:17:23,744
Speaker 4: they have to go get a colonoscopy, and I over

1459
01:17:23,824 --> 01:17:25,584
Speaker 4: here and go, I want to I want to call

1460
01:17:25,624 --> 01:17:34,784
Speaker 4: anoscopy too. You know, it's like whatever damages had some stuff. Yeah,

1461
01:17:35,304 --> 01:17:37,784
Speaker 4: The Good Place. I mean, it's hard for me to pick.

1462
01:17:38,544 --> 01:17:39,984
Speaker 2: Is there one episode of The Good Place that you

1463
01:17:40,024 --> 01:17:42,664
Speaker 2: feel like is like one of the like that you're like, man,

1464
01:17:43,264 --> 01:17:44,624
Speaker 2: either we all had it or no.

1465
01:17:44,744 --> 01:17:47,944
Speaker 4: I'll tell you. It's it's hard to separate yourself from

1466
01:17:47,944 --> 01:17:53,664
Speaker 4: the from the ensemble, and that was telling this this story.

1467
01:17:55,384 --> 01:17:58,864
Speaker 4: But the last episode of The Good Place, I have

1468
01:17:59,024 --> 01:18:04,344
Speaker 4: to watch it. I was like, well, I don't know. Obviously,

1469
01:18:04,624 --> 01:18:07,704
Speaker 4: life after life is a mystery and we don't know.

1470
01:18:07,824 --> 01:18:11,584
Speaker 4: We will but we don't now. But I sure hope

1471
01:18:11,584 --> 01:18:13,784
Speaker 4: it's like that. Yeah, you know, it was one of

1472
01:18:13,784 --> 01:18:21,864
Speaker 4: those magnificent, really sweet moving It's the way it should be.

1473
01:18:22,224 --> 01:18:24,264
Speaker 2: It's interesting thing that you've had between cheers in the

1474
01:18:24,304 --> 01:18:26,624
Speaker 2: Good Place. You've had two shows that the last episode

1475
01:18:26,624 --> 01:18:29,144
Speaker 2: really carried a lot of weight, Like people were like,

1476
01:18:29,224 --> 01:18:31,264
Speaker 2: I gotta I gotta.

1477
01:18:31,104 --> 01:18:31,704
Speaker 1: Tune in for that.

1478
01:18:32,024 --> 01:18:39,384
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think in a man on the inside.

1479
01:18:39,984 --> 01:18:43,864
Speaker 4: I think one of the last images of the first

1480
01:18:43,904 --> 01:18:51,104
Speaker 4: episode was me with the I can't remember the character's name,

1481
01:18:51,184 --> 01:18:54,704
Speaker 4: the lady who was in memory care now and then

1482
01:18:55,344 --> 01:18:57,904
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, pretty much full on dementia. But we

1483
01:18:57,984 --> 01:19:01,784
Speaker 4: were sitting there watching everyone else in the retirement home dancing,

1484
01:19:01,864 --> 01:19:06,584
Speaker 4: and we were just quietly sitting together. I love that.

1485
01:19:07,144 --> 01:19:11,784
Speaker 4: I love that we addressed that I've been really blessed

1486
01:19:11,784 --> 01:19:14,784
Speaker 4: to be around thoughtful people.

1487
01:19:15,144 --> 01:19:17,024
Speaker 2: Well and again before we head out of here, I

1488
01:19:17,064 --> 01:19:19,584
Speaker 2: just want to say, but also that means thoughtful people

1489
01:19:19,624 --> 01:19:20,624
Speaker 2: have wanted to be around you.

1490
01:19:21,944 --> 01:19:29,704
Speaker 5: I'm still out of body, because if thoughtful people don't

1491
01:19:29,744 --> 01:19:31,664
Speaker 5: often want to be around people who are not, who

1492
01:19:31,784 --> 01:19:34,744
Speaker 5: aren't equally thoughtful or like are equally graceful.

1493
01:19:34,784 --> 01:19:36,984
Speaker 2: And I think that that's the thing as I sit

1494
01:19:37,064 --> 01:19:39,704
Speaker 2: here thinking about, like, you know, as I you know,

1495
01:19:39,944 --> 01:19:41,184
Speaker 2: wanting to talk to you, what I want to talk

1496
01:19:41,184 --> 01:19:42,464
Speaker 2: to you about. And one of the things was like

1497
01:19:42,944 --> 01:19:45,864
Speaker 2: this idea of like maintaining this career over time that

1498
01:19:46,064 --> 01:19:48,904
Speaker 2: is like this like sort of Willie Mays don't if

1499
01:19:48,904 --> 01:19:50,944
Speaker 2: you know baseball, but like just sort of like like

1500
01:19:50,944 --> 01:19:53,864
Speaker 2: Willie Mays was just Hank Aaron is actually going to say,

1501
01:19:53,984 --> 01:19:54,784
Speaker 2: Hank Aaron, who.

1502
01:19:54,664 --> 01:19:57,224
Speaker 1: Is just great for years, you know what I mean?

1503
01:19:57,304 --> 01:19:58,824
Speaker 1: Or like or like Lebron James is.

1504
01:19:58,784 --> 01:20:01,024
Speaker 2: Another example, just like it's just like it's just a

1505
01:20:01,064 --> 01:20:04,744
Speaker 2: consistency across many years that is that is unrivaled and unmatched.

1506
01:20:04,784 --> 01:20:07,624
Speaker 4: And you know, maybe the fact that you pointed out

1507
01:20:07,704 --> 01:20:11,024
Speaker 4: two black athletes to compare me to will save.

1508
01:20:15,344 --> 01:20:18,784
Speaker 1: And is there any is there a do you have

1509
01:20:18,824 --> 01:20:20,144
Speaker 1: a two questions?

1510
01:20:20,184 --> 01:20:22,664
Speaker 4: This is the last I do I I is this

1511
01:20:22,744 --> 01:20:27,104
Speaker 4: off your email? Anyway? Go tell me about something I

1512
01:20:27,144 --> 01:20:28,224
Speaker 4: care about? Yeah?

1513
01:20:28,264 --> 01:20:30,464
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what then you've talked and you can be

1514
01:20:30,464 --> 01:20:31,384
Speaker 2: the thing you've talked about already.

1515
01:20:31,424 --> 01:20:32,224
Speaker 1: But like, I just want people.

1516
01:20:32,264 --> 01:20:34,704
Speaker 2: The whole point of this podcast also getting people to

1517
01:20:34,744 --> 01:20:38,424
Speaker 2: focus on things and causes that they may not be

1518
01:20:38,464 --> 01:20:38,984
Speaker 2: thinking about.

1519
01:20:39,304 --> 01:20:40,904
Speaker 1: And again because we all get to figure out what

1520
01:20:40,904 --> 01:20:41,424
Speaker 1: we can get in.

1521
01:20:41,424 --> 01:20:43,024
Speaker 2: Here, and we all get and we all got to

1522
01:20:43,104 --> 01:20:45,064
Speaker 2: learn about more things.

1523
01:20:44,784 --> 01:20:48,224
Speaker 4: So interesting and once again this can be so fucking

1524
01:20:48,304 --> 01:20:51,784
Speaker 4: I'm I'm I love that I'm not being careful. We're

1525
01:20:51,904 --> 01:20:58,184
Speaker 4: not being careful together right now, careful so that it's

1526
01:20:57,904 --> 01:21:01,544
Speaker 4: a you know, a shallow but here I go again

1527
01:21:01,664 --> 01:21:05,304
Speaker 4: in something that may be. But I'll tell you what happened.

1528
01:21:05,344 --> 01:21:12,944
Speaker 4: Literally after my conversation with Heather, I had to make

1529
01:21:12,984 --> 01:21:17,704
Speaker 4: a choice, and I remember saying, I'm to myself, I'm

1530
01:21:17,744 --> 01:21:22,984
Speaker 4: not Jane who was my hero. I'm not Jane who

1531
01:21:23,224 --> 01:21:30,064
Speaker 4: leaps up. Yeah, you know, and you know I'm not.

1532
01:21:30,464 --> 01:21:34,184
Speaker 4: I never have been. And in this moment, you know,

1533
01:21:35,064 --> 01:21:38,863
Speaker 4: I don't know that I want to become the poster child,

1534
01:21:38,904 --> 01:21:44,464
Speaker 4: whether I have the courage in me to be that,

1535
01:21:45,544 --> 01:21:50,184
Speaker 4: but I need to do something. And at that same moment,

1536
01:21:51,384 --> 01:21:56,304
Speaker 4: within months, a friend of mine, Mark Vahanian, who was

1537
01:21:56,344 --> 01:21:58,344
Speaker 4: an actor, and we came up together a little bit

1538
01:21:58,344 --> 01:22:01,984
Speaker 4: in la and then he became a trainer and physical trainer.

1539
01:22:01,984 --> 01:22:05,944
Speaker 4: Then he became a trainer of people who wanted to

1540
01:22:06,664 --> 01:22:10,424
Speaker 4: know themselves better. And then he started training executives and

1541
01:22:10,504 --> 01:22:14,104
Speaker 4: whole you know, fortune five hundred companies to be more

1542
01:22:14,144 --> 01:22:17,624
Speaker 4: effective by knowing who they really are. And then he

1543
01:22:17,744 --> 01:22:20,784
Speaker 4: met a priest and a nun and he started working

1544
01:22:20,824 --> 01:22:24,823
Speaker 4: in prisons and he started to call something called Pathway

1545
01:22:24,864 --> 01:22:31,584
Speaker 4: to Kinship that works with formally incarcerated people. I've left

1546
01:22:31,584 --> 01:22:33,664
Speaker 4: my phone so I won't get into it, but he's

1547
01:22:33,704 --> 01:22:40,384
Speaker 4: in nine prisons. He helps people when they come out

1548
01:22:40,904 --> 01:22:43,944
Speaker 4: by helping them when they're still in, by working with

1549
01:22:43,984 --> 01:22:47,544
Speaker 4: them and training them to then come out and be

1550
01:22:47,584 --> 01:22:51,384
Speaker 4: able to have a job, how to present themselves, how

1551
01:22:51,424 --> 01:22:55,064
Speaker 4: to get a good paying union job, how to get

1552
01:22:55,064 --> 01:22:58,584
Speaker 4: a home, where to go, and how to thrive.

1553
01:22:59,144 --> 01:23:02,944
Speaker 1: Maasic, how to deinstitutionalize themselves, that's the institution off of them.

1554
01:23:03,064 --> 01:23:07,384
Speaker 4: And then he started working within the prisons with people

1555
01:23:07,464 --> 01:23:10,184
Speaker 4: who are and these are all people who did the crime. Yeah,

1556
01:23:10,904 --> 01:23:14,144
Speaker 4: they have also served their time and are coming out.

1557
01:23:14,184 --> 01:23:16,823
Speaker 4: And if you don't have that kind of support system,

1558
01:23:16,984 --> 01:23:19,104
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's a horrible percentage.

1559
01:23:18,624 --> 01:23:19,864
Speaker 1: Of people are back in.

1560
01:23:20,104 --> 01:23:26,864
Speaker 4: Yeah, understandably, you know. So then he started working with

1561
01:23:26,984 --> 01:23:31,544
Speaker 4: lifers who will never get out, but who wanted to

1562
01:23:31,584 --> 01:23:37,264
Speaker 4: contribute and feel some sort of sense of redemption by

1563
01:23:37,744 --> 01:23:42,984
Speaker 4: helping people who are coming up for a parole really

1564
01:23:43,144 --> 01:23:49,024
Speaker 4: genuinely empathy, have compassion and empathy and understand what it is,

1565
01:23:49,064 --> 01:23:52,224
Speaker 4: that the effect of what it is they did, because

1566
01:23:52,264 --> 01:23:56,024
Speaker 4: if they don't, then it's slip service and they really

1567
01:23:56,064 --> 01:24:01,904
Speaker 4: haven't moved on in life, if they haven't truly, you know, empathetically,

1568
01:24:02,384 --> 01:24:06,863
Speaker 4: viscerally felt what it is that they did by whatever

1569
01:24:06,984 --> 01:24:11,584
Speaker 4: climate was. And the lifers work with these people, so

1570
01:24:11,624 --> 01:24:16,504
Speaker 4: they're having they're contributing to life even though they're not

1571
01:24:16,544 --> 01:24:18,864
Speaker 4: going to ever get out. And then he would bring

1572
01:24:19,624 --> 01:24:24,304
Speaker 4: I started bringing in victims, families of people who lost,

1573
01:24:25,424 --> 01:24:29,024
Speaker 4: you know, by someone doing to them or their family.

1574
01:24:29,144 --> 01:24:31,624
Speaker 4: What these people who are looking to have, you know,

1575
01:24:31,704 --> 01:24:35,384
Speaker 4: to get out so that that circle of empathy and

1576
01:24:35,584 --> 01:24:40,464
Speaker 4: understanding and redemption is genuine and well earned. It's called

1577
01:24:40,544 --> 01:24:45,944
Speaker 4: Pathway to Kinship and it's it's it's not reinventing the

1578
01:24:45,984 --> 01:24:50,904
Speaker 4: wheel because there are other organizations out there. Please check

1579
01:24:50,944 --> 01:24:54,304
Speaker 4: it out. It really is effective. It makes a difference.

1580
01:24:54,704 --> 01:24:57,504
Speaker 4: It is worthwhile to the communities that you live in.

1581
01:24:57,704 --> 01:25:02,504
Speaker 4: It's worthwhile to offer people redemption. Everything about it is worthwhile.

1582
01:25:03,904 --> 01:25:07,704
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's that's who I would love support for.

1583
01:25:08,144 --> 01:25:10,224
Speaker 1: Great. Thank you, so Pathway to Kinship.

1584
01:25:10,304 --> 01:25:12,864
Speaker 2: Yeah, since this is my first podcast, I have a

1585
01:25:12,904 --> 01:25:15,864
Speaker 2: bonus question because I'm just experimenting and then we'll be

1586
01:25:15,904 --> 01:25:18,344
Speaker 2: hit and it we'll be done. Is there one lesson

1587
01:25:18,624 --> 01:25:20,584
Speaker 2: that you have learned in your life that you feel

1588
01:25:20,584 --> 01:25:22,904
Speaker 2: like that you take with you or that you feel

1589
01:25:22,904 --> 01:25:24,904
Speaker 2: like has like served you well that is true for you.

1590
01:25:25,944 --> 01:25:31,824
Speaker 4: Wow, lesson I mean I.

1591
01:25:30,864 --> 01:25:32,824
Speaker 2: Or a mantra or a way that you approach things

1592
01:25:32,824 --> 01:25:35,264
Speaker 2: that you're like, this is how I this is what

1593
01:25:35,344 --> 01:25:38,504
Speaker 2: helps me sort of like move through the world.

1594
01:25:38,864 --> 01:25:42,504
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I kind of feel that I don't

1595
01:25:42,504 --> 01:25:44,944
Speaker 4: know if this is a truism or not, but it

1596
01:25:44,984 --> 01:25:48,664
Speaker 4: is for me. Yeah, that it's very sick. It's circular.

1597
01:25:49,224 --> 01:25:53,264
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm here to learn. I keep having

1598
01:25:53,304 --> 01:25:56,064
Speaker 4: to learn the same lesson. It's deeper and I get

1599
01:25:56,104 --> 01:26:01,184
Speaker 4: closer and closer, but it's always the same. And now

1600
01:26:01,224 --> 01:26:02,984
Speaker 4: I'm wondering what it really really is.

1601
01:26:04,904 --> 01:26:06,904
Speaker 2: But you feel like there's a circular nature to what

1602
01:26:06,904 --> 01:26:10,304
Speaker 2: you're learning, and you're sort of learning getting close to.

1603
01:26:10,744 --> 01:26:16,464
Speaker 4: I think, I think what it's I don't know. It's

1604
01:26:16,464 --> 01:26:18,544
Speaker 4: like someone didn't sit me down and teach me this.

1605
01:26:18,704 --> 01:26:21,784
Speaker 4: It's it's been over and over and over again. But

1606
01:26:21,944 --> 01:26:28,184
Speaker 4: I was raised by my mom and father. But my mom,

1607
01:26:28,264 --> 01:26:34,784
Speaker 4: who is more present emotionally, uh to be sensitive, kind, caring, loving, nurturing.

1608
01:26:36,144 --> 01:26:41,504
Speaker 4: Then there's this a line underneath that is petty, shitty, mean, angry, Yeah,

1609
01:26:41,584 --> 01:26:46,584
Speaker 4: fucked up, yeah dark, Yeah, you don't go below that line, Okay,

1610
01:26:46,624 --> 01:26:50,344
Speaker 4: you know you celebrate, you're joyful. You know, if you

1611
01:26:50,344 --> 01:26:52,624
Speaker 4: don't have anything nice to say, you don't say anything.

1612
01:26:52,624 --> 01:26:54,784
Speaker 4: You know, there are all of these things that and

1613
01:26:54,864 --> 01:26:58,584
Speaker 4: she was genuinely that above the line thing. But when

1614
01:26:58,664 --> 01:27:01,704
Speaker 4: any part of her spirit dipped down, she would become

1615
01:27:01,824 --> 01:27:04,904
Speaker 4: she'd go to bed sick. She wasn't sick, she was

1616
01:27:04,944 --> 01:27:06,184
Speaker 4: angry and couldn't deal with it.

1617
01:27:06,944 --> 01:27:08,904
Speaker 2: So I would was a way to go, I'm not

1618
01:27:08,944 --> 01:27:10,704
Speaker 2: going to be the worst version of myself.

1619
01:27:10,864 --> 01:27:11,984
Speaker 1: Yes, let's sleep it off.

1620
01:27:12,184 --> 01:27:18,464
Speaker 4: So I walked out thinking, you know that, I I

1621
01:27:19,344 --> 01:27:22,704
Speaker 4: you can't be nice unless you realize how shitty you

1622
01:27:22,744 --> 01:27:25,864
Speaker 4: can be, because then you have a choice. Then you're

1623
01:27:25,944 --> 01:27:29,144
Speaker 4: choosing consciously. Oh I know I can be shitty, but

1624
01:27:29,184 --> 01:27:31,784
Speaker 4: I'm going to choose not to be. Then it has weight.

1625
01:27:32,544 --> 01:27:35,344
Speaker 4: Then it's something that you've earned. And I didn't do that,

1626
01:27:35,664 --> 01:27:42,624
Speaker 4: And so I had this dark underbelly that was unexamined. Uh,

1627
01:27:43,264 --> 01:27:47,064
Speaker 4: you know. And I think Mary has been such a

1628
01:27:47,104 --> 01:27:50,184
Speaker 4: teacher in that way because I know how much she

1629
01:27:50,304 --> 01:27:55,624
Speaker 4: loves me. She loves me unconditional, well probably not uncondived,

1630
01:27:56,424 --> 01:27:59,344
Speaker 4: but she loves me so much, and she knows me

1631
01:27:59,424 --> 01:28:06,704
Speaker 4: and witnesses me. So when she says you're mean. After

1632
01:28:06,744 --> 01:28:10,224
Speaker 4: I deny it and we have a fight, I go, fuck, yeah,

1633
01:28:10,304 --> 01:28:13,384
Speaker 4: I am mean, I am petty, I have all those thoughts.

1634
01:28:14,024 --> 01:28:18,544
Speaker 4: I can be an asshole. It is a wonderful thing

1635
01:28:18,584 --> 01:28:21,744
Speaker 4: to learn, because then I don't. And when I didn't

1636
01:28:21,784 --> 01:28:24,704
Speaker 4: know that, I would I could never sit down and

1637
01:28:24,784 --> 01:28:27,144
Speaker 4: talk to you. For however long this has been, I

1638
01:28:27,144 --> 01:28:29,904
Speaker 4: would make an excuse to go have a cigarette. I'd say,

1639
01:28:29,904 --> 01:28:32,224
Speaker 4: excuse me one second, I think my mom's going, you know,

1640
01:28:32,624 --> 01:28:34,384
Speaker 4: I have to go to the bathroom. I would make

1641
01:28:34,424 --> 01:28:39,704
Speaker 4: an excuse because I was exhausted pretending to be ted.

1642
01:28:41,144 --> 01:28:44,464
Speaker 4: I don't think the silhouette is that different, but I

1643
01:28:44,504 --> 01:28:47,104
Speaker 4: was exhausted, you know. I had to pretend to be that.

1644
01:28:49,984 --> 01:28:54,224
Speaker 4: So I am more and more relaxed in who I

1645
01:28:54,264 --> 01:28:57,904
Speaker 4: am by acknowledging that I am all of it. I am.

1646
01:28:58,704 --> 01:29:01,944
Speaker 4: I am an angry, mean petty. I am fully human,

1647
01:29:02,664 --> 01:29:05,184
Speaker 4: you know. And I always thought I had to be no,

1648
01:29:05,344 --> 01:29:10,384
Speaker 4: I had to be christ like, you know, and that's

1649
01:29:10,424 --> 01:29:14,304
Speaker 4: a bad path to go. So that's my That was

1650
01:29:14,424 --> 01:29:17,904
Speaker 4: my lesson that life keeps giving me. And and I

1651
01:29:17,944 --> 01:29:22,264
Speaker 4: think I oh marry most of my wisdom, or at

1652
01:29:22,344 --> 01:29:25,704
Speaker 4: least the finishing classes, came from marrying you know.

1653
01:29:26,504 --> 01:29:28,784
Speaker 1: Toed dance, and thank you for talking to me today.

1654
01:29:29,464 --> 01:29:33,024
Speaker 4: Come out. I I you know, I don't know what

1655
01:29:33,064 --> 01:29:36,624
Speaker 4: the same the saying is, but it's like or where

1656
01:29:36,624 --> 01:29:39,584
Speaker 4: it came from. If you save somebody's life, you now

1657
01:29:41,264 --> 01:29:45,064
Speaker 4: you you have them forever. You have I don't think

1658
01:29:45,224 --> 01:29:47,544
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that you saved my life, but you

1659
01:29:47,624 --> 01:29:56,824
Speaker 4: do have me in your hands forever. And I'm happy, scared, grateful,

1660
01:29:57,344 --> 01:30:04,064
Speaker 4: I will take respons I am. I also feel thank

1661
01:30:04,104 --> 01:30:08,544
Speaker 4: you for letting me, you know, be in your orbit here.

1662
01:30:09,104 --> 01:30:12,624
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I appreciate so you were with me.

1663
01:30:12,664 --> 01:30:14,824
Speaker 1: Then you're have to ask are you with me? Ted?

1664
01:30:15,264 --> 01:30:17,464
Speaker 4: I am with you and I will learn to be

1665
01:30:18,024 --> 01:30:20,064
Speaker 4: demonstratively with you.

1666
01:30:20,064 --> 01:30:22,664
Speaker 5: Well it's a it's a journey. But again, thank you

1667
01:30:22,704 --> 01:30:25,104
Speaker 5: for this. Then yeah, thank you, thank you. I admire

1668
01:30:25,144 --> 01:30:25,824
Speaker 5: you so much.

1669
01:30:25,904 --> 01:30:26,304
Speaker 4: Come out.

1670
01:30:26,744 --> 01:30:29,304
Speaker 2: It's a it's a I live in Oakland, so I

1671
01:30:29,304 --> 01:30:31,504
Speaker 2: always tell people like I sort of don't know who

1672
01:30:31,584 --> 01:30:33,224
Speaker 2: knows who I am or who cares about like as

1673
01:30:33,224 --> 01:30:36,104
Speaker 2: far as like in the business. And so I told

1674
01:30:36,104 --> 01:30:37,584
Speaker 2: you this in the podcast when I got an email.

1675
01:30:37,624 --> 01:30:39,104
Speaker 2: It's like Ted dance and wants you to be in

1676
01:30:39,104 --> 01:30:41,744
Speaker 2: this podcast. It's like, what is that even? Like literally

1677
01:30:41,784 --> 01:30:43,544
Speaker 2: me and my Kelly, who I was working with time,

1678
01:30:43,584 --> 01:30:46,864
Speaker 2: but like a like so for you and then for

1679
01:30:46,904 --> 01:30:50,064
Speaker 2: you you're you know, they say don't meet your heroes

1680
01:30:50,144 --> 01:30:52,984
Speaker 2: or whatever, but I find that like, if you're connecting

1681
01:30:53,024 --> 01:30:55,864
Speaker 2: for people for the right reasons, then you can meet them.

1682
01:30:56,024 --> 01:30:57,904
Speaker 2: And so I feel like that's why I have you

1683
01:30:57,904 --> 01:31:00,344
Speaker 2: have you have? You have not disappointed Ted Dancing.

1684
01:31:00,584 --> 01:31:03,184
Speaker 4: You know when you say Oakland, I think Oakland is

1685
01:31:03,224 --> 01:31:05,264
Speaker 4: a great reality check.

1686
01:31:05,504 --> 01:31:07,504
Speaker 1: It is a great it's a great it's a reality

1687
01:31:07,464 --> 01:31:08,224
Speaker 1: yeah for sure.

1688
01:31:08,424 --> 01:31:10,464
Speaker 2: For sure. You know Oakland will tell you when you're not.

1689
01:31:10,664 --> 01:31:12,584
Speaker 2: When you're not, I DoD it right. So I walk

1690
01:31:12,624 --> 01:31:14,704
Speaker 2: those streets every day and I hear from the people

1691
01:31:14,824 --> 01:31:16,824
Speaker 2: directly what I'll see you every day.

1692
01:31:17,064 --> 01:31:19,384
Speaker 4: And if I need to apologize to anyone in your

1693
01:31:19,464 --> 01:31:22,264
Speaker 4: immediate family, I apologize.

1694
01:31:22,744 --> 01:31:23,304
Speaker 1: I don't think you.

1695
01:31:23,664 --> 01:31:26,824
Speaker 4: I'll double check, but I know, but please tell them

1696
01:31:26,864 --> 01:31:27,504
Speaker 4: that I will.

1697
01:31:27,584 --> 01:31:30,863
Speaker 1: I will. Okay, thank you? Yeah, Ted Dance everybody.

1698
01:31:33,304 --> 01:31:36,224
Speaker 2: So that was my conversation with Ted Dancing. It when

1699
01:31:36,304 --> 01:31:37,984
Speaker 2: a lot of ways I did not expect it to go.

1700
01:31:38,104 --> 01:31:40,024
Speaker 2: But that's kind of why I love what this podcast

1701
01:31:40,104 --> 01:31:42,704
Speaker 2: is becoming, that the conversations go a lot of different ways.

1702
01:31:43,184 --> 01:31:45,304
Speaker 2: I know you're watching right now. Ted, reach out to

1703
01:31:45,344 --> 01:31:47,384
Speaker 2: me if you need me. I'm with you. You're with me.

1704
01:31:47,744 --> 01:31:51,464
Speaker 2: And let's remember Ted shouted out to organizations Oceanna, which

1705
01:31:51,504 --> 01:31:53,704
Speaker 2: is about cleaning up the oceans, which is important if

1706
01:31:53,704 --> 01:31:55,184
Speaker 2: we want to like have a planet that we can

1707
01:31:55,184 --> 01:31:56,544
Speaker 2: live on. I mean, the planet will be here, but

1708
01:31:56,664 --> 01:31:58,664
Speaker 2: can we live on it. Let's help him clean up

1709
01:31:58,704 --> 01:32:01,464
Speaker 2: the oceans at oceana dot org. That's o c e

1710
01:32:01,624 --> 01:32:04,784
Speaker 2: A n A dot org, oceana dot org. And also

1711
01:32:04,784 --> 01:32:07,824
Speaker 2: we talked about another organization that helps people who are

1712
01:32:07,864 --> 01:32:10,384
Speaker 2: formally incarcerated as they make the transition to living on

1713
01:32:10,424 --> 01:32:13,864
Speaker 2: the outside. It's called Pathway to Kinship. So go to

1714
01:32:13,904 --> 01:32:17,064
Speaker 2: Pathway to Kinship dot org. So that's two great things

1715
01:32:17,064 --> 01:32:19,824
Speaker 2: to support clean up the oceans and help people more

1716
01:32:19,824 --> 01:32:22,784
Speaker 2: incarcerated start their new lives. That's like at the total

1717
01:32:22,824 --> 01:32:26,584
Speaker 2: opposite ends of what the planet needs right there.

1718
01:32:26,704 --> 01:32:28,464
Speaker 1: We need to clean up the oceans and we need

1719
01:32:28,504 --> 01:32:29,904
Speaker 1: to help people out of prison.

1720
01:32:29,784 --> 01:32:33,304
Speaker 2: Start their new lives. So do that support those two organizations. Again,

1721
01:32:33,424 --> 01:32:36,984
Speaker 2: thank you you've been listening to Who's With Me? The

1722
01:32:37,024 --> 01:32:40,504
Speaker 2: podcast by me W Camlbell a part of Malcolm Gladwell's

1723
01:32:40,544 --> 01:32:45,023
Speaker 2: Pushkin Industries, also produced by Rabigren Productions and today recorded

1724
01:32:45,184 --> 01:32:48,704
Speaker 2: at Rabigren Production So shout out everybody. The theme song

1725
01:32:48,784 --> 01:32:51,384
Speaker 2: is by Chris Dowd from Fishbone. It's called Don't give

1726
01:32:51,464 --> 01:32:53,744
Speaker 2: Up on Yourself. I'll see you next week. Our guest

1727
01:32:53,784 --> 01:32:56,144
Speaker 2: next week is Kristen Kish, one of the hosts of

1728
01:32:56,264 --> 01:32:56,864
Speaker 2: Top Chef.

1729
01:32:57,104 --> 01:32:59,144
Speaker 1: A lot of Top Chef talk, It's also a lot

1730
01:32:59,184 --> 01:33:01,104
Speaker 1: more talk about roast.

1731
01:33:01,144 --> 01:33:15,224
Speaker 3: It's weird, how this is happening, but enjoying the ga