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Speaker 1: After public mass shootings, there's always these calls to do something,

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Speaker 1: do something, do something, But what if what we do

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Speaker 1: doesn't stop the next shooting. I want to have on

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Speaker 1: this week's episode, just a data driven conversation. We're going

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Speaker 1: to remove the emotion. We're just going to get into

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Speaker 1: the numbers, get into the facts. And I've got none

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Speaker 1: other than Dr John Lott for this episode. He runs

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Speaker 1: and started the Crime Prevention Research Center before he got

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Speaker 1: into a lot of the gun research he's He started

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Speaker 1: his academic journey at u C l A, where he

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Speaker 1: got his bachelor's degree in economics. He went on to

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Speaker 1: get both his master's and PhD from there as well.

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Speaker 1: He worked as an economist at the University of Maryland,

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Speaker 1: Yale Law School, the University of Stanford, Texas, A and

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Speaker 1: M We're in business school, all these different places, right,

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Speaker 1: So he starts at a place really from digging in

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Speaker 1: the numbers. That that's what he loves, that's what he does.

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Speaker 1: He had also worked as a chief economist at the

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Speaker 1: United States Sentencing Commission. So we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: all of this stuff with him. What would actually prevent

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Speaker 1: the next public mass shooting? What's the profile of a

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Speaker 1: mass shooter. Why did these keep happening? And are they

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Speaker 1: happening more since Columbine or is the media just covering

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Speaker 1: the more. So I've got a lot of questions for

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Speaker 1: Dr John Lott. We're also going to get into, you know,

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Speaker 1: the latest proposal from Congress, this bipartisan proposal, things like

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Speaker 1: red flag laws, you know, do they allow for due process?

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Speaker 1: So I've got a whole host of questions for him,

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Speaker 1: Dr John Lott. He knows the data, he knows the research,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to give it to us on this show.

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Speaker 1: Dr Lot, I'm really looking forward to having this conversation

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Speaker 1: because after mass shootings, there's always these calls we have

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Speaker 1: to do something, we have to do something, But what

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Speaker 1: if that do something doesn't stop the next mass shooting?

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Speaker 1: You know? So I really want to just have a

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Speaker 1: data driven conversation, not an emotional conversation, but a data

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Speaker 1: driven one with you. And I know that's what you

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Speaker 1: do at the Crime Prevention Center. So I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: joining the show. Sure, yeah, no, thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Uh right, Look, everybody wants to go and stop these attacks. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but what you want to do is do something that's

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Speaker 1: relevant for stopping them, and uh, you know you have

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Speaker 1: this push for things like universal background checks. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: been kind of the game go to type of legislation

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Speaker 1: that they wanted. But yet there's not one mass public

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Speaker 1: shooting this century that would have been stopped if such

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Speaker 1: a law had been in effect, these background checks on

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Speaker 1: the private transfers of guns, And yet they keep bringing

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Speaker 1: it up, and it makes one begin to think that

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Speaker 1: they have reasons other than trying to stop these types

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Speaker 1: of attacks that are motivating it. Why is the focus

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Speaker 1: always Okay, well, the answer is getting rid of guns,

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Speaker 1: are limiting the ability to own them to some degree.

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Speaker 1: I think they want to get rid of guns. If

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Speaker 1: they wanted to pass something like a universal background check,

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Speaker 1: these background checks on private transfers of guns. I've been

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Speaker 1: telling them for over twenty years how they could easily

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Speaker 1: get something like that passed if they made a few

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Speaker 1: reasonable changes. I mean, they keep on saying, we just

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Speaker 1: want reasonable gun control. Well, I can give you a

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Speaker 1: few extremely reasonable fixes to the bills that they have

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Speaker 1: that would make it easy to get it passed. But

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Speaker 1: they refused to do that, and it kind of convinces

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Speaker 1: me over time that they really don't care about things

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Speaker 1: like universal background checks per se. They care about making

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Speaker 1: it costly for people to be able to go and

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Speaker 1: get guns. You know, we're talking about, obviously the desire

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Speaker 1: to put more laws on the books, but how many

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Speaker 1: gun laws do we currently have on the books and

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Speaker 1: to what extent are we following them. We have a

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Speaker 1: lot of laws that I guess it depends how you

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Speaker 1: want to count them. Uh. Uh. There's a guy named

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Speaker 1: Alan Corwin who goes around and kind of counts the

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Speaker 1: number of words in different uh gun laws, either federally

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Speaker 1: or in the state. He doesn't do it for all

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Speaker 1: the states, but I mean for states like California may

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Speaker 1: literally have hundreds of thousands of words, uh dealing with

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Speaker 1: the gun control laws just at the state level. And

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Speaker 1: you probably have thousands of gun control laws if you

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Speaker 1: count local ordinances and restrictions people have locally in counties

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Speaker 1: or cities on guns. Um. But nobody has really ever

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Speaker 1: gone through and systematically counted all the laws uh in

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Speaker 1: any way. It's just I mean, we have a lot,

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Speaker 1: um and you know, my concern is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the problems that we have are due to existing

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Speaker 1: gun control laws like these gun free zones that are there,

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Speaker 1: and rather than going back and undoing the existing laws,

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Speaker 1: the push seems to be, well, we need yet even

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Speaker 1: more laws that will fix the problem, and they cause

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Speaker 1: more problems, so you know, just kind of continue in

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Speaker 1: the background check stuff. As an example, UM, if my

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Speaker 1: research convinces me of anything, it's the two groups of

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Speaker 1: people benefit the most from having guns. One of them

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Speaker 1: are poor blacks who live in high crime urban areas.

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Speaker 1: The very people who are most likely victims of violent crime,

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Speaker 1: according to my research, are the ones who benefit the

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Speaker 1: most from having guns for protection. Police are extremely important,

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Speaker 1: but if you talk to the police or look at

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Speaker 1: surveys of police, police themselves understand they virtually always arrive

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Speaker 1: on the crime seen after the crimes committed, and so

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Speaker 1: what's the safest course of action for them to take?

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Speaker 1: And it turns out having a gun is by far

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Speaker 1: the safest course of action. So we have the errors

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Speaker 1: in the background check system I was talking about, but

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Speaker 1: we also have the costs. If you live in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d c. Lisa, Let's say you and I lived in

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Speaker 1: d c UH and I'm going to give you a gun.

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Speaker 1: It costs a hundred twenty five dollars to go through

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Speaker 1: a background check. Now, just to give you an idea

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Speaker 1: of how these laws are purposely set up to make

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Speaker 1: it difficult for people to get guns. Let's say now

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you four guns. So it's just

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Speaker 1: John giving Lisa four guns, one person giving one other

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Speaker 1: person the guns. You think it's just one background check

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Speaker 1: because the same person is getting all the guns from

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Speaker 1: one person. But no, they require a separate background check

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Speaker 1: on each gun. So if I'm going to give you

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Speaker 1: four guns, that is going to cost five hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: rather than a I mean, there's like no logical reason

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Speaker 1: to me why you should have to require a separate

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Speaker 1: background check on each gun, right than just on the

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Speaker 1: one person who's getting the guns. Uh. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just an example where they kind of purposely go

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Speaker 1: out of their way to make it costly. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: if you believe that is going to control I advocate

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Speaker 1: say that the background checks are important for stopping crime,

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Speaker 1: and I don't believe that. But if you do believe it,

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Speaker 1: then presumably you want to encourage people to go out

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Speaker 1: of their way, not to just to make it for

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Speaker 1: me to give you the guns, but to go and

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Speaker 1: find a license dealer and make the transfer through them. Um,

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Speaker 1: you want to encourage people to do that, Well, how

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Speaker 1: is making people pay a tax essentially encouraging them to

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Speaker 1: go and obey the law? Or you know, if you

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Speaker 1: if you believe it reduces crime, it reduces crime for everybody,

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Speaker 1: not just the law abiding individual who's going out of

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Speaker 1: their way to go and do the background check. Well,

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Speaker 1: how how is making them, the person who's obeying the

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Speaker 1: law bear the entire freight of paying for this accomplishing

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Speaker 1: that if if as an economist, I would say, if

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Speaker 1: everybody benefits, everybody should pay, you know, pay for this

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Speaker 1: out of general revenue. But they will fight you. They

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Speaker 1: will fight you against this. Okay, quick commercial break back

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Speaker 1: with Dr John Lott on the other side. The reason

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Speaker 1: I had asked you about the gun laws is, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we look at prosecutors in major cities across America

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Speaker 1: that aren't prosecuting criminals right now. So it's just hard

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Speaker 1: to imagine that increasing the amount of laws in the

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Speaker 1: books will do anything when we already you know, have

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Speaker 1: essentially lawless cities across America. But I want to get

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Speaker 1: into some of the basics of mass shootings with you

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Speaker 1: and just go through some basic questions on this. You know,

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Speaker 1: the first is how are mass shootings to find? Well,

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Speaker 1: you have two definitions. You have mass shootings and you

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Speaker 1: have mass public shootings. Mass shooting are any shooting that

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Speaker 1: occurs where you have four more people killed other than

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Speaker 1: the murderer. Usually now there's a place called the and

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Speaker 1: that's been the traditional FBI definition. Uh. Now you have

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Speaker 1: a place called the Gun Violence Archive, which is a

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Speaker 1: gun control group, which is what the media sites all

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Speaker 1: the time, and they have their own definition. They have

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Speaker 1: three or more people shot, either wounded and or killed. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that's the definitely, that's the number that you hear

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Speaker 1: when they say, well, we've had two hundred mass shootings

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Speaker 1: or something this year. Um. Mass public shootings is a

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Speaker 1: narrower definition. And what that tries to get at are

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Speaker 1: these attacks that occur at a mall or school or

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Speaker 1: a movie theater or something where the point of the

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Speaker 1: attack is simply to kill as many people as possible.

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Speaker 1: And um, so as public is four more people killed

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Speaker 1: in a public place, not involving some other type of

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Speaker 1: crime or like a gang fight over drug turf. You

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Speaker 1: know what most people miss is that the mass shooting

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Speaker 1: about eighties seven percent of those are gang fights over

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Speaker 1: drug turf, and the vast majority of the rest are

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Speaker 1: things like a robbery which resulted in the death of

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Speaker 1: multiple people and uh or in the case of the

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Speaker 1: gun violence archived just woundings or whatever. And uh. Now

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Speaker 1: are gang fights over drug turf important? Yeah, sure, any

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Speaker 1: time people get killed is important, But the causes and

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Speaker 1: solutions of gang fights over drug turf are very different

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Speaker 1: than the causes and solutions to things like stopping these

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Speaker 1: mass public shootings. Um. You know, getting rid of gun

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Speaker 1: freeze owns I think is important for stopping these mass

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Speaker 1: public shootings. But you know, the notion that you're going

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Speaker 1: to easily get rid of the guns that drug gangs have, UM,

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Speaker 1: isn't really serious. Well and if you look at you know,

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Speaker 1: these public mass shootings. Have we seen more of them

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Speaker 1: increase since colibine or is it just or coverage of

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Speaker 1: them has increased? The rate of mass public shootings has

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Speaker 1: been fairly constant. You had a little bit of an

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Speaker 1: increase around twenty and it's gone back down again. Um.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you had some increase around the same time,

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Speaker 1: and the number of people killed but you know, one

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Speaker 1: thing I think needs to be clear. Over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks or a few weeks, there's been kind

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Speaker 1: of this theme in the media that the United States

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Speaker 1: is unique in terms of mass public shooting. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's simply false. Um. You have a number of countries

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Speaker 1: in Europe that have higher per capita rates of mass

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Speaker 1: public shootings in the United States hip per capita rates

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Speaker 1: of public school shootings than the United States. Um. The

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Speaker 1: problem that people make in these comparisons is that usually

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Speaker 1: the media and gun control people and Democrats will just

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Speaker 1: talk about the number of attacks. But you have to

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Speaker 1: take into account is that the United States has over

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Speaker 1: three people. Um. There are a lot of countries in

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Speaker 1: Europe that have five million people or six or eight

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Speaker 1: million people. Germany, which is the most populous country in Europe,

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Speaker 1: has has eighty million people. Uh, So that's less than

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Speaker 1: the fourth of the population in the United States. If

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Speaker 1: you look at mass public school shootings since two thousand,

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Speaker 1: there have been nine in the United States. Uh, there

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Speaker 1: have been three in Germany. Uh. The most deadly one

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Speaker 1: had eighteen people killed, The second most deadly one had

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Speaker 1: fifteen people killed. Then you have another one where there's

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Speaker 1: four killed. Uh, you multiply three times four, you get twelve. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have a country like Finland, which has

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Speaker 1: had a couple uh school shootings. Um, they have five

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Speaker 1: million people in the country. They have one the population

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Speaker 1: that the United States has. You know, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like people if you with the news media compared the

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Speaker 1: number of murders in Rhode Island or let's say, Wyoming

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Speaker 1: with Texas or California, presumably not. You know, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to compare it across states, people know you'd put

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Speaker 1: it in per capita terms, but for some reason they

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Speaker 1: refuse to do that when when they're talking about these

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Speaker 1: mass public shootings, probably because it's about the narrative as

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Speaker 1: opposed to getting the truth out to the public. You know,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, is the contigient or the

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Speaker 1: copy of cat affects real with some of these when

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Speaker 1: you look at the public mass shootings like these school shooters,

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Speaker 1: or is that a real thing? There's no doubt. I

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Speaker 1: mean you just have to read their diaries and manifestos

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Speaker 1: and other things that they leave time after time after time.

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Speaker 1: The murderers will say, if I can only kill more

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Speaker 1: people than such and such killed, I can get more

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Speaker 1: media attention. So you look at the Sandy Hook killer.

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Speaker 1: He had He had been planning his attack for over

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Speaker 1: two and a half years. According to police, he had

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Speaker 1: put together the equivalent of a doctoral dissertation where he

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Speaker 1: had looked at mass public shootings over the previous forty years. UM.

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Speaker 1: He had apparently graft out the relationship between the number

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Speaker 1: of people killed in attacks and the amount of media

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Speaker 1: coverage that they had gotten. In His goal, according to

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Speaker 1: one police report, was to go and kill more people

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Speaker 1: than the Norway killer had killed. He he the Norway killer,

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Speaker 1: if you ignore the bombing deaths, had shot to death

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Speaker 1: sixty seven people. That's more than any mass public shooting

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Speaker 1: in the United States. And uh, and he was hoping

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Speaker 1: that if he could kill more people than the Norway

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Speaker 1: killer had killed, that he could get even more worldwide

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Speaker 1: media attention. UM. You know, at some point along the line,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've always had people who want to go

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Speaker 1: and commit suicide, but at some point along the line,

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Speaker 1: several decades ago, UM, there were a group of people

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Speaker 1: that knew they wanted to go and commit suicide, but

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Speaker 1: realized that they could commit suicide in a way that

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Speaker 1: people at least would know that they were here. And Uh,

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Speaker 1: they talked about, well, my name will be in the

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Speaker 1: history books. People will know that I was important, Um,

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Speaker 1: that I mannered so many When you read the diaries

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Speaker 1: or statements from these other murders, Um, they just don't

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Speaker 1: feel appreciated. Uh. You know, women won't go out on

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Speaker 1: dates with them or something, or they you know, people

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Speaker 1: won't be their friends or whatever. Um. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you read the diaries and stuff, and you realize, well,

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Speaker 1: there's a pretty good reason why people your friend, you're

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Speaker 1: a really strange guy. But the but they want to

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Speaker 1: commit suicide in a way that people will know that

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Speaker 1: they were here. And so they discovered that they could

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Speaker 1: get massive news attention by killing lots of people, and

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Speaker 1: so they planned these things. Six months is a short

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Speaker 1: amount of time for them to plan it. Uh. Many

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Speaker 1: of them plan for a year or two years or more. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they pick and they go through detailed planning. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They case places beforehand. You have, like you or a

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Speaker 1: Batman movie theater shooter, he had cased multiple movie theaters

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Speaker 1: before he went in there. He picked the one. There

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Speaker 1: were seven movie theaters that were showing the premiere of

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Speaker 1: the Batman movie within a twenty minute drive of his apartment.

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Speaker 1: He picked the one movie theater that banned permanent concealed handguns.

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Speaker 1: Um you see the same thing over and over again,

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Speaker 1: the the Omaha, Nebraska mall shooting, or the uh St

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Speaker 1: Louis mall shooting, or the Salt Lake City mall shooting,

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Speaker 1: or the um uh the Portland, Oregon mall shooting. You

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Speaker 1: may have, you know, five six malls in an area,

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Speaker 1: and only one or two will have signs posting banning

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Speaker 1: permier concealed handguns. And so where do they go? Well,

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Speaker 1: and that's also yeah, the one that doesn't have or

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Speaker 1: the gun free zones. And that makes sense because you know,

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Speaker 1: if you just look at it from a common sense standpoint,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking to inflict mass harm, you go to

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Speaker 1: the easiest place to do it. So I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's you know, common sense. Yet a lot of lawmakers

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Speaker 1: can't seem to grasp that concept. But you talked about

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Speaker 1: some of the background of some of these public mass shooters.

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Speaker 1: What's the typical profile for what is there a typical profile?

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Speaker 1: There's no typical age. You know, people are focusing right

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Speaker 1: now because of a couple of recent attacks on people

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Speaker 1: who are under twenty one. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: all the mass public shooters over the last twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: the most common age rage is five. The next most

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Speaker 1: common age rage is thirty six to forty, the next

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Speaker 1: one is umtet and then only at that point do

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Speaker 1: you get to sixteen to twenty. Um. Uh. You know

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Speaker 1: you have mass public shooters who are in their sixties

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Speaker 1: out there. Uh. As far as other parts of the profile,

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Speaker 1: they're overwhelmingly male. Uh. You know, like nineties seven percent

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Speaker 1: or so are male. Um Uh. There are people that

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Speaker 1: have no real political or religious views. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: we keep on hearing white supremacists. You have if you

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Speaker 1: look at people who are anything from white supremacists, neo Nazis,

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Speaker 1: or just people who are upset about illegal immigration. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you get about nine percent of the mass public shooters.

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Speaker 1: Um Uh. Muslims who are doing it because of radical

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Speaker 1: views on Muslim things are about nine percent of the

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Speaker 1: population to their make up about half of one percent

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Speaker 1: of the population, but they make up nine percent of

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Speaker 1: the mass public shooters. Um. But overwhelmingly you just have

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Speaker 1: people who to commit suicide and who want to do

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Speaker 1: it in a way that's going to get them attention. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the overwhelming common view that's there. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: other thing is, over the last twenty five years, over

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Speaker 1: half the mass public shooters were actually seeing mental health

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Speaker 1: care professionals prior to their attack. And yet and not

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Speaker 1: one single case where mental health care professionals able to

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Speaker 1: identify those individuals as a danger to themselves or others. Why. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole academic literature on that. Uh. And and

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Speaker 1: the explanation is usually, well, um, people with mental health

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Speaker 1: problems are usually on average, less violent than the general population.

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Speaker 1: They're actually more likely to be victims of violence than

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Speaker 1: the general population themselves. Um. And it's just such a

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Speaker 1: rare thing, they'll say. They'll say, look, Uh, they're about

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Speaker 1: two and a half in schizophrenics in the United States

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Speaker 1: in any given year. And yet if you look over

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Speaker 1: the last twenty five years, there's really only one clear

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Speaker 1: case of a schizophrenic uh committing a mass public shooting

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Speaker 1: and uh one other one. Whether is at least an

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Speaker 1: argument to be made that he may have been Um.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, if I were to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: of these two point five million people, pick the thousand

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Speaker 1: most likely ones to go and do it. Even if

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Speaker 1: you get a guy who's in the thousand that you pick,

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Speaker 1: you'll still be wrong nine out of the thousand times.

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Speaker 1: And that's usually the type of argument that you see

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Speaker 1: being provided by mental health care professionals. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. I have no problem with people spending

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Speaker 1: more money on mental health care for people. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: just that, you know, it's pretty hard to believe that

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Speaker 1: you're going to catch most of these people beforehand, or

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Speaker 1: even a small fraction of them. And so to me,

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Speaker 1: the question is, what's your backup plan? What do you

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Speaker 1: do if you can't identify these individuals beforehand? And that's

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Speaker 1: where allowing people to protect themselves comes in. If you can't,

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Speaker 1: if you can't, if you really have very little hope

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Speaker 1: of identifying these individuals beforehand, what what do you do

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Speaker 1: if you can't catch them? Quick break more data on

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Speaker 1: public mass shootings. I guess you know. My concern is

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Speaker 1: when we start getting into some of the mental health conversations,

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Speaker 1: like with the Senate proposal that they just put out,

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Speaker 1: including you know, funding and encouraging of things like red

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Speaker 1: flag laws. I mean, we just got through a time

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Speaker 1: period with COVID where you know, I didn't get the

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Speaker 1: vaccine right, and like Democrats wanted to find me, wanted

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Speaker 1: to confine me to my home, wanted to potentially imprison

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Speaker 1: me just for questioning vaccine efficacy, wanted to put me

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Speaker 1: in a designated facility, and if I had kids, would

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Speaker 1: want to take away my kids for me simply because

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Speaker 1: I don't share the same opinion as they did on

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Speaker 1: the vaccine. So the concern for me when you look

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Speaker 1: at red flag laws or you give increased authority to

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Speaker 1: mental health officials to flag people, is could they flag

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Speaker 1: me simply because I hold different opinions than they do. Well,

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Speaker 1: I suppose anything as possible. Look, as far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: you already have a better law on the books for

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Speaker 1: dealing with this than red flag laws. Uh. They go

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Speaker 1: by different names in different states. Uh. Oh, states to

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Speaker 1: call them Baker Act or in California it's called where

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Speaker 1: if somebody's concerned about the behavior of somebody, either that

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Speaker 1: they believe that they're danger to themselves or somebody else. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can go and contact the police. The police will

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Speaker 1: come in and evaluate if they have what's called a

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Speaker 1: reasonable suspicion about the person. Uh, then they'll take them

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Speaker 1: to a mental health care professional who will evaluate them.

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Speaker 1: Either one or two will evaluate them, and then if

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Speaker 1: there's additional concerns at that point, there can be an

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Speaker 1: immediate hearing. Um. If you can't afford a lawyer, one

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Speaker 1: is provided for you, and a judge at that point

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Speaker 1: has a broad range of options. He can say, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned, Uh, I want you to go and see

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Speaker 1: a mental health expert. Um, and then we'll have you

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Speaker 1: come back in in a couple of weeks and we'll

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Speaker 1: evaluate how your treatment's going. At that point. Um, they

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Speaker 1: could in theory, take away somebody's guns. They could uh

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Speaker 1: involuntarily commit you in the most extreme cases. Um. What

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Speaker 1: red flat laws do is they sensely strip out all

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Speaker 1: those protections that are there. Um. Red flag laws are

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Speaker 1: virtually always used regarding concerns about suicide. And Uh. What

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Speaker 1: happens is is that somebody will make a complaint. The

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Speaker 1: complaint will be given to a judge. All the judge

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Speaker 1: sees in front of them is the written complaint doesn't

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Speaker 1: question the person. There's no cross examination that's there. The

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Speaker 1: judge solely based on the written complaint will make a

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Speaker 1: decision whether or not to take away a person's guns.

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Speaker 1: So you don't even know that there's a complaint until

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Speaker 1: the police show up at your house at five am

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Speaker 1: in the morning. And uh, and then maybe within a month, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there'll be a hearing in which to decide whether or

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Speaker 1: not to make the order permanent or not. Uh. No

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Speaker 1: lawyers are provided for you. You have to go in

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Speaker 1: the higher one yourself. I've talked to lawyers involved in

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Speaker 1: these types of cases. You're talking about legal fees that

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Speaker 1: will be around tenth thousand dollars or so to handle

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Speaker 1: a hearing like that. Um. And what you find is

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Speaker 1: that the vast majority of people UH don't hire lawyers

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Speaker 1: to go and represent them because the only thing that

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Speaker 1: happens with the red flag law is that your guns

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Speaker 1: are taken away. So you may value your guns, but

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Speaker 1: you know, is it really worth ten thou dollars to you?

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Speaker 1: A few people are going to say yes it is. UM.

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Speaker 1: The problem is, if you are concerned about somebody being suicidal,

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Speaker 1: is it really a serious solution just to say, well,

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Speaker 1: I just I'll take away their guns. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: somebody is suicidal. Uh, there's so many different ways that

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Speaker 1: people can commit suicide, and the notion that's simply taking

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Speaker 1: away their guns solves the problem is not a serious response.

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Speaker 1: And they don't involve mental health care professionals in any

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Speaker 1: part in the process. Only a couple of a state

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Speaker 1: red flag laws even mentioned mental illness. And they don't

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Speaker 1: even provide in any of these places for mental health

432
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: care professionals to be involved any place in the process. Uh.

433
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's a couple of things they're

434
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: going on. One is, um, it's a lot easier to

435
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: write a new law that doesn't have any civil rights

436
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: protection than it is to go and remove uh civil

437
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: rights protections from existing laws. Uh. And the other thing is,

438
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: I think gun control people want to make laws that

439
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: where they said, well, if we just take away the gun,

440
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: then the problem is solved because the guns are the problem.

441
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: And that's that's just silly stuff. I mean, it's just irresponsible,

442
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: I think to frame things that way. But that's they're

443
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: their modus operandi, that's the way they operate. That's the

444
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: image that they want to get across to people, right,

445
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: And I wanted to you talked previously for the red

446
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: flag laws that states already have these laws on the books.

447
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: Does every state have you know, some law you know,

448
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: in lieu of a you know, a red flag type thing.

449
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: Does every state have a law in the books currently

450
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: addressing being able to take a gun away from someone

451
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: who is, you know, maybe mentally deranged or whatever. Every

452
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: state and the federal government has these Baker Act type laws.

453
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: Every state does. Now. You know, if they were serious

454
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: about dealing with mental health issues, what they would say is, Okay,

455
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: maybe we need more funding for mental health facilities or something.

456
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: Maybe they'd make some tweak I don't know what it

457
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: would be because they never focus on that. Uh. Nobody

458
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: kind of forces them to go and debate those types

459
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: of issues. Um, but uh uh, you know I would uh,

460
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: that would be my approach. But you know, if you

461
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: have some problem, if you think that there's a reason

462
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: you need this new law, fine state what it is

463
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: and maybe we can make an adjustment to the existing law.

464
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: But no, they won't do that. Their approaches to have

465
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: this new law that kind of guts all these civil

466
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: rights protections that are there. Obviously, had the federal assault

467
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: weapons bad it was in place for a decade, What

468
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: impact did that have and would banning air fifteens have

469
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: any impact? Well, it didn't have any effect. Even studies

470
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: paid for by the Clinton administration weren't able to find

471
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: any effect on any type of violent crime or on

472
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: mass public shootings. Um. And you know it's you know,

473
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: the bizarre thing is you have after the Buffalo shooting, which,

474
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: by the way, if you read as manifesto, Uh, he

475
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: talks about using an air fifteen precisely because he thought

476
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: it would get people the most upset. He knew that

477
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: it would lead to more calls for gun control. Um.

478
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: And uh you know he uh he bought a New

479
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: York state compliant a R fifteen. Uh. New York has

480
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: more stringent assault weapons ban than the original federal one.

481
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: And so you know, we're kind of treated to this

482
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: uh spectacle of Biden going to Buffalo and calling for

483
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 1: an assault weapons ban and saying, if we only had

484
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: an assault weapons ban, uh, we wouldn't have attacks like

485
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: the one in Buffalo, and New York already has an

486
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: assault weapons ban, and nobody in the press even asks

487
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: him about that contradiction that's there. Um. Look, uh, when

488
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: you go from the ten years before the assault weapons

489
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: ban to the ten years that it was in effect,

490
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: there's absolutely no change in the number of attacks mass

491
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: public shooting is using assault weapons. Um. You would think if, uh,

492
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: if the assault weapons ban were driving any dropped, that

493
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: you would see in the number of attacks. Uh, you

494
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: would see a drop in the percentage of mass public

495
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: shootings using assault weapons because some of the people who

496
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: may have used assault weapons so called assault weapons, would

497
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: have switched to other types of guns. If you look

498
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: over the last twenty five years of mass public shootings

499
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: involve a rifle of any type, um, Uh, fifty eight

500
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: percent involve handguns. UM. So they're not even the ones

501
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: that are most likely used in these attacks. They could

502
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: switch to something else that you can't have a drop

503
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: in the total without a drop in the percentage of

504
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: attacks using these so called assault weapons. In fact, actually

505
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: during the band, the percentage of attacks using assault weapons

506
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: it up, and after the band they went down, which

507
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: is the exact opposite pattern. People can see all the

508
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 1: data at our website at crime research dot org if

509
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: they're interested, but um, you know it's if you go

510
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: back and know how they put the assault ament's band together.

511
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: Senator Feinstein had her staff go and look through catalogs

512
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: of guns and put check marks next to the guns

513
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: that they thought looked particularly threatening or what have you.

514
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: There's no kind of logical difference in the guns that

515
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: were there that they were doing. It was purely based

516
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: on the list of guns that they named. There were

517
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: based solely on how they looked. UM. Just to make clear,

518
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, now we're having some people like Biden talk

519
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: about just banning UH. Semi automatic guns. As I mentioned before,

520
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: the vast majority of guns owned in the United States

521
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: are semi automatic. UM. The These are guns where one

522
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, one bullet comes out. It reloads itself.

523
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: One pull the trigger, one bullet comes out. So if

524
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about different types of rifles, you have manually

525
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: loaded rifles where you fire a bullet and you have

526
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: to physically yourself put another bullet in the chamber, you

527
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: have semi automatic guns, and then you have fully automatic

528
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: machine guns. None of these mass public shootings have involved

529
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: machine guns. None of the crimes generally are murder is

530
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: generally involved machine guns. With the nineteen thirties has been

531
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: like one murder with with the machine gun and UH.

532
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: The thing is, though regular people benefit a lot from

533
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: having semi automatic guns. There's a reason why almost all

534
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: the guns sold in the United States or semi automatics,

535
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: and that is, if you're attacked by multiple criminals, or

536
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: if you fire and miss, or if you fire and

537
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: wound the attacker but don't incapacitate them, you may really

538
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: wish that you could quickly fire a second bullet, and

539
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: and you may not have the luxury of time to

540
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: manually reload your rifle there uh in order to fire it. Um.

541
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, I think a lot of these

542
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: gun control laws that they push are more likely to

543
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: make it difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves,

544
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: and it's going to be uh stopping criminals. To be clear,

545
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: I am not a gun owner, but I support the

546
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: Second Amendment because all you have to do is look

547
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: at history and see what happens once citizens become disarmed

548
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: and tyranny takes over. And so for that reason alone,

549
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: I support the Second Amendment because I think it serves

550
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: on a check against tyranny, and it serves on a

551
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: check of keeping America free. So that's why I support

552
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: guns personally. You know how challenging is it as a

553
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: researcher in today's political climate, looking at the media. I mean,

554
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: how much missing formation is out there? You know, how

555
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: much does that change the perception? And a lot of

556
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: these conversations of just a lot of these reports coming

557
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: from a place of you know, a lack of understanding

558
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: or or from falsehoods has a huge impact. I'll give

559
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: you one example. Uh. You know, the theme under the

560
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: buying administration is that in order to reduce violent crime,

561
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: we have to have gun control. You know, I don't know,

562
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: maybe it's just because I deal with these numbers all

563
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: the time. I'm just astounded by the discussion. Let's an

564
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: eight percent of violent crime involves guns. Now, I don't

565
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: think that Biden's solutions even for that eight percent are

566
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: going to be very useful. But you know, the way

567
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: you reduce gun violence is the same way you reduce

568
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: violent crime. General. You have to make it risky for

569
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: criminals to go and commit crime. And you know, as

570
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: you were alluding to earlier with prosecutors, you have district

571
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: attorneys around the country were refusing to prosecute very violent criminals.

572
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: You've had many urban areas over half even two thirds

573
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: of inmates have been released from jail's. Uh, You've had

574
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: police budgets being cut. Uh. In New York City, they

575
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: cut the police budget by billion dollars a year. In Chicago, Uh,

576
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: in they eliminated four hundred positions uh from full time

577
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: law enforcement uh there in the city. Um. You know,

578
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: they've had other restrictions on how police are able to

579
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: go and do their job. You've had bail reform. I mean,

580
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: the bail reform is just crazy. Um. You know the

581
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: guy who drove his SUV through the Christmas crowd in Wisconsin, Um,

582
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: he uh was facing charges he had been arrested for

583
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: an attempted murder of the mother of his child with

584
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: his car. He had tried to run her over. Uh.

585
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: He was facing attempted murder charges. There. He was facing

586
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: other felony charges. Uh. He's facing twenty five years or

587
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: so imprisoned for all the different crimes that he was

588
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: facing already. What are you gonna do. You're gonna the

589
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: twenty five years in jail that he's facing didn't stop him.

590
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: But if you go and say, well, if he kills

591
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: six more people and and sends sixties some people to

592
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: the hospital, Um, you know, we'll give him an additional

593
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: uh six life sentences. You know, if he's already essentially

594
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: facing he's thirty eight years old, uh, facing twenty five

595
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: years in jail. Uh. The guy, you know, the guy

596
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: is gonna be in his sixties when he gets out.

597
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: Um Uh, it's almost as if he's already facing a

598
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: life sentences there. Uh. And you have people you know,

599
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: uh in New York or other places, they're facing long

600
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: prison sentences. They get out with little or no bail.

601
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: That's there. Is it surprising that they go and commit

602
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: other crimes when there's really no additional penalty that you

603
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: can put on them because they're already facing long prison sentences. Uh.

604
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: It's just crazy stuff. But the bottom line is you

605
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: want to you want to make it risking. Biden has

606
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: given four major addresses on violent crime, um and uh.

607
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: In those four speeches, he's never mentioned the district attorneys once.

608
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: He's never mentioned all the inmates being released from jail's once.

609
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: Um he uh, he goes. He's mentioned police four times,

610
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: but when he's mentioned police, it's been in terms of

611
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 1: them enforcing gun control laws. You know, if I were

612
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: Biden when he gave his big talk in New York

613
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: in February, I would have gone in and said, look, uh,

614
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, you've cut the police budget by billion dollars

615
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: a year. You know, is it surprising that you've had

616
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: any increase in violent crime that's occurred here? It's insane,

617
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: you know. To take us through, so said it has

618
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: released their proposal on what they want to do on

619
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, guns, and in their way, they're trying to

620
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: address the vol the shooting. You know, take us through.

621
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: We kind of we already got into red flag laws,

622
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: which is part of it. They want to try to

623
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: increase and encourage states to administer red flag laws. Uh,

624
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: you know they're trying to increase that. But take us through,

625
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, the rest of it. What do you think

626
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: of it? What's your takeaway? Would any of it help,

627
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: would any of it hurt? You know, kind of just

628
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: take us through broadly, sort of what you think about

629
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: what you've read so far on it. The devil is

630
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: going to be in the details on what they do here,

631
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we're just gonna have to see

632
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: what they end up coming down to. Uh in terms

633
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: of the agreements, I you know, right now, it's a

634
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: very vague sketch on on what they're proposing. Um, you know,

635
00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: they wanna Uh they're talking about things like, um uh

636
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: having go after straw purchasers. I have no idea what

637
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: they're talking about there. They're talking about um things like

638
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: uh uh more strictly regulating uh licensed dealers. Well, okay, again,

639
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what they mean. I mean, you look

640
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: at what Biden's done on something like uh licensed firearms dealers.

641
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: He's adopted so called zero tolerance approach where he's having

642
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco on firearms and explosive experts agents

643
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: go in and check paperwork. Biden has this description of

644
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: licensed dealers selling guns out of the back of their

645
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: store to criminals. And that's that's what's happening. And that's

646
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: not what they're going after. They're looking to see whether

647
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: they have any paperwork mistake, no matter how tiny, no

648
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: matter how trivial, over let's say the last fifteen years,

649
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: and if they find one mistake, you're out of business.

650
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: It can be a very trivial, tiny paperwork mistake. But

651
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: then they've already put thousands of of licensed gun dealers,

652
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: something like five thousand or so out of business. Uh.

653
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: And it's just getting going. I assume when they get

654
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: the new Uh. Ahead of the a t F in there,

655
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: they'll go even more full bore on doing that. And uh.

656
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: You know, UM, I don't know whether the Democrats want

657
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: to try to codify that more or make it even

658
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: more restringent or whatever that's going to be there. I

659
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: assume the Republicans will push back. I don't know whether

660
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: they will even come to an agreement on something like that. Um.

661
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: So Uh they want to have changed the rules for

662
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: people under twenty one buying a gun. Um. Uh. My

663
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: understanding is from this, Uh, the Texas school shooter had

664
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: a felony charge that was on his record as a

665
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: juvenile domestic or at least a domestic violence charge and uh,

666
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: and so they want to make it so you can

667
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: go and look at the juvenile records. Look, if somebody's

668
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: seventeen and a half and they commit a crime, do

669
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: you learn something about them when they turn eighteen? Sure? Okay,

670
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: I don't think there's just because you become eighteen, we

671
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: don't learn something about things about you that you did earlier. Traditionally,

672
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: what's happened is we've said if somebody makes, uh does

673
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: a crime when they're fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, or whatever, Um.

674
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: You know, people make stupid mistakes when they're young. We

675
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: don't want them to follow that for the rest of

676
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: their lives. And so we've sealed juvenile records that are there.

677
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: So much of the gun control debate focuses on one

678
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: particular or instant as far as I know, in the

679
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: last twenty five years, Um, the Texas school shooting is

680
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: the only case where we had somebody who had a

681
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: juvenile record like that, who, in theory, could have been

682
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: prevented from legally at least obtaining a gun. Uh if

683
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: this had been including his records. My impression is that

684
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: Democrats want to make this a ban for all ages.

685
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: Um uh you know, and so you just have an

686
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: additional thing that they put on that's going to disqualify

687
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: people for life from only a gun. So you know,

688
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: you've we talked about mental illness before. If if you

689
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: have a problem, let's say when you're eighteen or twenty,

690
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: and you're involuntarily committed, your ban for your life from

691
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: being able to go and own a gun, it may

692
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: have been a one time, transitory thing that occurred. Uh.

693
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: You may be perfectly fine when you're thirty or forty

694
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: or fifty but you're still banned for life from being

695
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: able to go and have a gun. Um. So you know,

696
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 1: I understand uh that we can learn stuff about people

697
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: from their behavior when they're a juvenile. Um. The question

698
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: is going to be where do you end it and

699
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: how do you make sure it's ended at that point

700
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: because once you kind of unseal these juvenile records and

701
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: they're put into these other systems, I'm not sure how

702
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: easy it is to go and remove it. So would

703
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: the number one thing be to to stop these school shootings,

704
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: to get rid of gun free zones? I mean, look,

705
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: we we did a report where people can find it

706
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: out our website at crime research dot org where we

707
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: looked at all the discharges of firearms on school property

708
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: from two thousand on um, anything from an axonal discharge

709
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: by a police officer all the way up to a

710
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: mass public school shooting. And uh, Um we have twenty states,

711
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: including uh parts of Texas where you have armed teachers

712
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: and staff. Of the schools in Texas have armed teachers

713
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: and staff. But this attacker picked a school where teachers

714
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: and staff were banned from being able to go and

715
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: have guns. UM. So you literally when you look at

716
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: these thousands of these twenty states, you have thousands of

717
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: schools that have armed teachers and staff. You cannot find

718
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: one attack where anybody has been wounded or killed anywhere

719
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: near during school hours when teachers would be around. UM

720
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: at as any of those schools where teachers and staff

721
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: are armed. All the school shootings, every single one where

722
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: anybody's been wounded or killed has occurred at uh at

723
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: places where teachers and stay for a band from having guns. Look,

724
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: you have two different types of signs that you put

725
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: in front of schools. Either they have signs that say

726
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: this school is a gun free zone, or you have

727
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: a sign that says warning, select teachers and staff are

728
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: carrying concealed handguns and we'll use them to go and

729
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: uh protect students and others here at the school. UM.

730
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: You know. UH, a lot of people, even Republicans, are saying, well,

731
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: we need to have one police officer in each school.

732
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 1: I don't think people appreciate what an incredibly difficult job

733
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: having one person in uniform faces and stopping these attacks. Uh.

734
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: If you have one person and only one person who

735
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: is a gun and he's in uniform, he's readily identifiable. Uh.

736
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the Buffalo shooting. The Buffalo

737
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: shooter had cased the grocery store. He knew that there

738
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: was one arm guard there. He knew where the one

739
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 1: armed guard was stationed in uniform. Who do you think

740
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: he took out first? They know if they take out

741
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: the one person in uniform first, they're gonna have free

742
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: rein to go after everybody else because they're the only

743
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: person with a gun in these places. You know, if

744
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a guard at a place, or a

745
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: police officer, for for heaven's sakes, don't put them in uniform.

746
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: Don't make them readily identifiable. If you're gonna have one

747
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: police officer, make them a gym teacher or something. Okay,

748
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: uh so they blend in, uh so that the attackers

749
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: don't know who it is that they have to go

750
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: and try to take out first. These attackers have real

751
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: strategic advantages if you're if you're a police officer and

752
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: you're guarding an elementary school. I mean, talk about a

753
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: boring job. You know, day after day, week after week,

754
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: month after month, nothing happens. It's hard to be on

755
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: your hose all the time there. You don't have eyes

756
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: in the back of your head. We're talking about one guard.

757
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: It's very expensive to put one full time police officer

758
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: in each of these schools and uh and the benefit

759
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: is relatively small. And besides, if you have teachers and

760
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: staff caring, you make the job of at one uniformed

761
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: officer much safer because the attackers. You put your signs

762
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: out in front of the school, warning the attackers, because

763
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: what happens is the attackers have to reveal their position

764
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: when they start firing at the officer, and they have

765
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: to worry that maybe somebody behind them or to the side,

766
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: somebody that they can't identify to begin with. Well, and

767
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: we saw, you know, there's recently, you know, a Texas

768
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: church shooting where a congregant was able to take out

769
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, so we've seen this happen. And there's also,

770
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: you know, not too long ago at a party in

771
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: West Virginia, a woman with a pistol was able to

772
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: take out you know. But Dr John Lytte, I really

773
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: appreciate your time, you know, thank you so much for

774
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: joining the show. But just one quick thing. On our

775
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: website at Crime Research dot or, we have dozens of

776
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 1: those types of cases that you're mentioning. Rarely do these

777
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: cases get national news coverage, and often when they do,

778
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: the media gets it wrong. Uh. But just in the

779
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 1: last few years, we have dozens of these cases up

780
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: on our website. Uh, dramatic cases where if the people

781
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: weren't there with their permanent concealed handguns we're talking about

782
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: in public places, you know, they would have gotten national

783
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: and international news coverage. These are cases where the police

784
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: themselves have said that multiple people would have been killed

785
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: if it hadn't been for the presence of the permit holder.

786
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: So just in conclusion my debate, my guess is the

787
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: entire debate that we have right now would be dramatically

788
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: different if the types of stories that you were just

789
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: referring to got national news coverage and even once in

790
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: a while and even and also if you got uh,

791
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: when they cover these mass public shootings, if once in

792
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: a while they would go and mention we've had yet

793
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: another mass public shooting where guns are banned. It's often

794
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: the easiest thing for the reporters or whatever to go

795
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: and check. Instead, they'll go and say, well, we think

796
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: he used this type of gun, or we think he

797
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: got it this way. Things that are often wrong. You know,

798
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: these last couple of tacks, We've had multiple news stories

799
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: about these guys supposedly wearing body armor. You know, Uh,

800
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: the news media just completely gets this stuff wrong. They

801
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: lie through their teeth and it's it's unfortunate, which is

802
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: you know why we try to do segments like this

803
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: on this show. Dr John lytte, I appreciate your time,

804
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: Take care, sir, have a great day. Thank you. Dr

805
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: John ly So. Trying to bring you a bunch of

806
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: different guests on the show to really dig into a

807
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: lot of the hot button issues, the issues that impact

808
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: your lives and and obviously members of Congress, literally coming

809
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: from your guns as law abiding citizens is worthy of

810
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: the evan episode on this show. So I hope you

811
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: enjoyed the show. If you don't mind leave us a

812
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcast, you can rate us five stars

813
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: as well. Please share with your family and friends. And

814
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: I thank you so much for listening. And I want

815
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: to thank John Cassio, my executive producer, for all the

816
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: work that he does to put this together as well.