1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Podcasting. Oh I love it. I love when we're talking 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: to microfilms and people listen. Yeah, good for them. It's 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: gonna outlive microblogging apparently. Yeah, Okay, who could who could 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: have thought we've won? Guys? We are the last medium standing. Well, 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: to be fair, I do think the majority of people 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: on this call got got this job part because of like, yeah, 7 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: yeah it's tree. Look at where our posts of bought 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: us to this moment on the podcast it could happen 9 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: here podcast where we don't explain what the podcast is, 10 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: that's right, yea, And yeah, the podcast also contains me, 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Christopher Wong, contains Garrison Davis, it contains James stout m 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: and allegedly Robert However, Robert Evans is. I think he's 13 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: legitimately actually busy right now. He is. He is like 14 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: recording something else. There's that. Yeah, he's doing a marath 15 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: and think but if you look at the iHeart page, 16 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: it's only Robert. We have. We have a lot of 17 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts on yeah, anyways, on the Cool 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: Zone Media. Yeah, on the Cool Zone Media. That's right. So, 19 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: speaking of podcasts we've done on the Cool Zone Media, 20 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: we did one that came out the one before this one, 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: and about it was it was about how a bunch 22 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: of socialists want more cops. Yeah, so, okay, I asked 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: myself the question when I read this, why why do 24 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: they want this? How did we get here because they're 25 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: rich and they're scared? Yes, this is true. It's there's 26 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: there's also sort of there's also sort of deeper roots 27 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: to what's happening here. And okay, so, like it is 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: true that there's been a whole wave of people who 29 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: were sort of nominally progressive or like socialistity dozens six 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: ten or two and seventeen who turned right in the 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: past few years, particularly over ratio issues like Leafing Gain 32 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: Greenwald like more recently the t y T people like 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: Bush Rosakara's been doing crime wave ship like kind of recently, 34 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: which was actually really funny. He had this tweet about how, like, oh, 35 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: the crime race is not actually down, there's a specific 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: neighborhoods where the crime where people are poor, where the 37 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: crime is up, and then you look at the data 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: and that's exactly the opposite of what's happening. But okay, so, 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: but this entire push for sort of more police is 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: part of a broader political project that Donna used to 41 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: me and his sort of allies in Jocobin and etcetera, etcetera, 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: been pushing for years now. And this sort of like 43 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: political project is the class side of what's called the 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: class versus race or the race versus class debate. So 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: for people who were either weren't here for this or 46 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: have like blissfully forgotten this, the race class debate was 47 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: basically an argument about sort of the role of race 48 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: in leftist organizing. Um. The argument was basically like, Okay, 49 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: should we understand race is like a structural force in 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: in the US that requires its own specific organizing around 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: racial justice and like liberation movements, or should we attempt 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: to put class first and attempt to solve racism by 53 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: appealing to the interests of the entire working class and 54 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: only doing class based organizing. Um, there are broadly like 55 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: three types of class first people. Weirdly, we're gonna see 56 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: two of them here. Um, there are a very small 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: number of very committed and very radical Marxists and like 58 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: a small number of anarchists who think that, like well, 59 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: race was a product of class anyways. And so if 60 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: you end the class system and abolished private property. That's 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: the sort of like actual central like mechanism of oppression society. 62 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: And if you do that, like you know, race will 63 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: sort of fall apart, and so you know you should 64 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: um whatever consciousness anyway. Yeah, like these people are wrong. 65 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: I think they're less dangerous of the other kind of 66 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: two people. But we're also going to see one of 67 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: these guys later. So there there's the people like called 68 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: the like class with like a K people who are 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: just straight up like racists like they are they are 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: class with a kkk. Yeah right, like they you know, 71 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: the groups of socialists I've compared them to, or like 72 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: the socialists who came to the US after etty eight 73 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, ship who cares like slavery, Like 74 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: we don't care about slavery. The actual thing that like 75 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: is good for the working classes, stealing more land for 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: indigenous people, and this is how we're going to solve 77 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: the labor question. Or also the sort of like like 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: the the people who were in the nights of labor, 79 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: like the eighteen eighties who were like, all right, we 80 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: need to we need to defend labor. Where we're gonna 81 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: defend labors by technically cleansing the entire West coast of 82 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: Chinese people like these are basically these guys right there, 83 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: they're just straight up racists. You want unions and healthcare. Um. 84 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: They used to be a real faction in the d 85 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: s a UM formed around just like absolutely dogshit subreddit 86 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: called stupid pole Um. They used to be a bunch 87 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: of them in Philadelphia. And these kind of people like 88 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: they were like red Scares initial base, and so by 89 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, this is like by now like these people 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: are almost entirely deranged trade cats who spent literally their 91 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: entire time deep throwing Peter Field's boot. So they're kind 92 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: of mostly like they're they're just right wingers now, like 93 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: that that's what's happened to these people. Um, good riddance 94 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: fuck um. I yeah. And then there are people like 95 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: ordinary used to be in Bosch carcent Kara who don't 96 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: really want to end capitalism and think that socialism is 97 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: just sort of like welfare states and some unions. And 98 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: also and they also and this is sort of critical, 99 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: I tend to think that racial justice organizing is a 100 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: distraction from the main goal of achieving socialism. And by 101 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: achieving socialism, I mean electoralism, and by electoralism, I mean 102 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: getting these people elected to office. I hate these people. 103 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: Their politics sucks. I've been fighting them from like since 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: I became a leftist. I've been at war with these people. 105 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: And to get a sense of how we got from, 106 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: you know what, what was legitimately in a lot of cases, 107 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: what was at least legitimately in arguing about how to 108 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: deal with racism to a bunch of socialists going we 109 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: need more cops. I want to take a look at 110 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: a piece r Adam or Usami wrote in Catalyst with 111 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: David Zachariah called the class Path the racial Liberation, And 112 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: I want to take a quote from its opening to 113 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: give it a sense of people of like how awful 114 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: this politics is. This is like like one of the 115 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: sort of like opening statements about what what the's why 116 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: they're taking the class side in the debate. We argue 117 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: that the class race debate should center on one principal domain, 118 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: the distribution of material resources. Now, Okay, at first glance, 119 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 1: this seems kind of reasonable enough, but there's another incredibly 120 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: important aspect of any attempt to grapple with racing class 121 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: that USUM is just ignoring. Entirely, and that's violence, right, race. 122 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: Race is not just a measure of economic in a quality, 123 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: it's an index of violence. And you know, racialization increases 124 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: your risk of interperson interpersonal violence, and increases your risk 125 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: of sexual violence, and increases your risk of mass communal 126 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: violence on lynching or sort of ethnic cleansing campaigns. And 127 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: maybe most importantly for this whole argument, like being racialized 128 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: dramatically increases the risk of suffering state violence. And this 129 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: is a real problem for the sort of class first people, 130 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: because you know, it's something sort of multiple like multi 131 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: racial working class electoral project won't do ship to prevent 132 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: people from experiencing state violence just because there's welfare programs, 133 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, which we talked about this what this looks 134 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: like in our Brazil episodes. Right, you actually have like 135 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: legitimately a you know, like a sort of united multi 136 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: racial working class at election social democratic governments, and they 137 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: enact anti poverty before performs and increase the size of 138 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: the welfare state. And while this is happening, they also 139 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: increase incarceration the incarcerated population by six and created a 140 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: rate of police killing that's eleven times higher than it 141 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: is in the us, right, And this is the thing 142 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: these people really don't want anyone to think about, which 143 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: is that race is actually more complicated than economic inequality, 144 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: which this entire politics is dedicated to not seeing because 145 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: class first politics, like a lot of what it really 146 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: is about amounts to a theoretical framework that gives you 147 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: a way to argue that race is not an explanatory 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: framework for literally anything, so you don't have to talk 149 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: about it, and anyone who talks about it is dividing 150 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: the working class or some ship and it, yeah, it 151 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: fucking sucks. And you know, like one of one of 152 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: the big sort of political violence things is massacrceration. And 153 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: one of sort of donner is like political projects is 154 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: arguing that massacrcepiration isn't about race at all, but it's 155 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: actually about class, which so we're gonna see somewhere bullshit, um, 156 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: he wrote. He wrote an article in Catalyst called the 157 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: Economic Origin the mass Incarceration alongside New Chicago professor John Clagg, 158 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: and I have like, I have an enormous special contempt 159 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: for John Clegg for two reasons here. One because you know, 160 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: a daughter is like an irredeemable Jocobin, Like soaked them 161 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: hack right. Clegg Is nominally was was part of the 162 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: sort of the anglophan Barxist like ultra left right like 163 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: he he was one of the contributors to the sort 164 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: of to to the ultra left theory journal like ultra 165 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: left Barxist Communization Journal end Notes, which you know, like 166 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: that influenced me a lot when I was like a 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: tiny baby leftist. And he I also have an incrediblemount 168 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: of contempt here because he's a Harper Schmidt Fellow at 169 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: the University of Chicago. And here's the thing. Okay, I 170 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: don't know what Harvard is like, right, I've never been there. 171 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what their campus is like. I don't 172 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: know what it's like to be be on campus at Harvard. 173 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: I know what you Chicago, the Chicago campus is like. 174 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: I know what. There's a cop at every fucking corner. 175 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: I know that the surveillance campus is literally everywhere. I 176 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: know that they locked down the entire fucking campus. Well, 177 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of heavily armed cops storm through every building in 178 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: every courtyard of the area. Every single time that kids 179 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: steal something from a gaming store and runs for it 180 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: until they' hunted them the funk down and I know 181 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: that you know I I you know that the almost 182 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: fucking killed me while I was there during a police chase. 183 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: I know that John Clegg was on fucking campus when 184 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: the Chicago Police Department shot a kid who was having 185 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: a mental health crisis. And to to watch this ship 186 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: every single fucking day and to make this kind of 187 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: argument is just fucking unforgivable. It is. It is fucking atrocious. 188 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: I guess I should I should explain this a little 189 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: bit for people who do don't understand this. So, the 190 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: University of Chicago is like in the middle of the 191 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: South side of Chicago. It's like the neighbor like most 192 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,599 Speaker 1: neighborhoods around it are like black, and then there is 193 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: just this fucking university they've planted in the middle of it. 194 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: And this college has the world's largest private police force. 195 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: There's the also the regular cpds around there. There are 196 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: like for like blocks and like like through other neighborhoods 197 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: there were just Chicago Police officers there. There are fucking 198 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: CPD cops everywhere. It is a fucking bilitarized hell hole. 199 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, and you know, like it is a place 200 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: where like the way that race functions in the US 201 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: is blindingly fucking obvious. You can you can immediately under 202 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: stand it by looking, like you walk outside your fucking dorm, 203 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: you look at the cop, and you look at how 204 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: the cop treats people depending on what the race is. Right. 205 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: It is so unbelievably obvious. However, Comma, in this article 206 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: clagg it Is are going to argue that mass incarceration 207 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: is actually a product of class policy resulting from a 208 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: lack of social democracy and underdevelopment resulting from a transition 209 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy in the 210 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: twentieth century and the subsequent mass migration of black people north. 211 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: Like what kind of a grarian economy? We have to 212 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: watch economy, how much we paid? It's like, it's like, 213 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: the basic argument that they're going to make is that, like, well, 214 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: so there are a bunch of people who had been 215 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: slaves and then they became not slaves, and then a 216 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: bunch of them started migrating north. But because there was 217 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: this mass migration, all these people showed up to the 218 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: like showed up to these cities where there was no infrastructure, 219 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: and then so there's a bunch of crime and then 220 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: because of the crime there is mass incarceration, which is okay, 221 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: we're going to get some war into this. But before 222 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: we go into the service reactionary part of this article, right, 223 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: you have to understand that when these people say that 224 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: this is a a like a class based policy, like 225 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: class here does not mean the same thing that it 226 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: means for like you know, a regular person who thinks 227 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: about class, or like you know a Marxist, which again 228 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: both these people nominally are. Um here's from the journal Specter, 229 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: which a really good sort of critique of of this 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: whole absolutely dogshit article. Quote Clegg and Usums claim that 231 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: class is essential to understanding mass incarceration amounts to a 232 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: repackaging of a widely understood fact as revelatory insight. And 233 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: while they title their article quote the economic Origins of 234 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: mass incarceration, they never delve further into class and a 235 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: markist or even critical sense. Instead, they use educational attainment 236 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: data as a proxy. They note that a large portrait 237 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: of people who are imprisoned have low levels of education entertainment, 238 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: and I I'm glad to know that everyone on this 239 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: call who does the exact same job as me, we're 240 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: all from different classes. Congratulations, James, you are now the 241 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: bourgeois the congratulations s Garrison. You're not proletariat, I might 242 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: guess the labor aristocracy. I am here to expropriate the 243 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: surplus value from your labors. Yeah yeah, and if you 244 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: get to prison, it's it's my fault. Yeah, Like I 245 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: I just okay, So like what an asshole? What do 246 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: we ridiculous fucking claim? Yeah, And it's like these okay, 247 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: so like like it was some these like the Jocobin 248 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: people do this all the time, right, Like they had 249 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: this they made this famous study about the people who 250 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: vote for Trump that was like, oh, it's people people 251 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: who voted for Trump did it like working class areas, 252 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: and again working class was by education data. And then 253 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: also they didn't go because it turns out like this 254 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: is actually true right there, there are a lot of 255 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: people who voted for Trump for working class areas. It 256 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: turns out who those people are are the small business 257 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: owners and work class areas. They didn't fucking go grand 258 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: your leve enough so that you know they do this 259 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: ship all the time, right, And this is the kind 260 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: of analysis that like like proxy for class. It's like 261 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: it's a classic fallacious thing. Yeah, like like what's his name, 262 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: Nicholas Christoff, But yeah, he did this too, also like 263 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: like this this is this is We're we're getting fucking 264 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: Christoff level analysis out of these supposed Marxists and like, okay, 265 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: so all right. The curious thing here is that Clegg, 266 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: at least on an intellectual level, knows better than this, right, 267 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: Like he vote he wrote for end Notes and Notes 268 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: has a very sophisticated class analysis. But if you're actually 269 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: interested in the sweeping arc of the history of the proletariat, 270 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: you can't make the kinds of arguments that Cleg is 271 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: making in this thing. And so, you know, because because 272 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: he's trying to make this argument, he's just used to 273 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: this like like just absolutely like like seventh rate like 274 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: fucking New York Times pundit level analysis. Yeah, it's okay, 275 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, like they're there. It's it's this is really 276 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: sad because for actual Marxists and not sort of like 277 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: liberal bourgeois hacks doing like fucking New York Times bullshit. 278 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: You know, classes about ownership, right, it's about who owns 279 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: the means of production and who's forced to work for them. 280 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: And you know, okay, so you have this, you have 281 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: the proletariat, or like the working class, where the people 282 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: who own nothing and are thus forced to sell their 283 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: labor for people who do who do own stuff. Right, 284 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: But this also presents a problem for this entire argument, 285 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: because if you actually want to do class analysis, you 286 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: have to understand that race plays a major roland. Who 287 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: even gets to become part of the regular proletariat in 288 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: the first place, because most there's a lot of people, 289 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: through the development of the course of capitalism who fucking 290 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: never even got to become wage labors because they were enslaved, 291 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: they were exterminated, they were turned to debt peons. And 292 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: oh wait, guess who fucking got that ship? Oh yeah, 293 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't white people. And you know, if if, if 294 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: you're if you're gonna write and if you're gonna be 295 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: writing arguments and like explaining the rise of like a 296 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: mass system of enslavement, you might want to think about this. 297 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: But no, oh okay, So do you know what else 298 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: is responsible for a mass serious a mass system of enslavement? Uh? 299 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: The advertising and how they affect our brains. Yeah, that one. 300 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: I was going to go with Stalin, but well, the 301 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: same same day, if honestly, yeah, Stalin first mass Marketer 302 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: so true famously, yeah it Stalin, I'll say you're me 303 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: okay if you're asking, Okay, we're back, and we're back 304 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: to talk about the other arguments of the economic origin 305 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: of massive carcederation, which is that the argument that massive 306 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: carcederation happened because people were legitimately scared about crime, Like 307 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: this is their argument. Their argument is that crime went up, 308 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: people demanded less crime, and then the government did it, 309 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: Like wait did they did? They give an oalysis of 310 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: the class of people. Okay, they make this fun argument 311 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: that both black and white people were demanding the end 312 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: of crime, which is sort of true. But you know, 313 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: if you look at what like like yeah, like obviously, 314 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: and this is the thing, right, Like, you can find 315 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: people of any race who can who will take basically 316 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: any political position, and so if if you go looking 317 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: for like black people who are tough on crime, you 318 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: can find it. Right, there were black politicians who were 319 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: like tough on crime, right, but that's also not the 320 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: reason why massacretiation happened, Like I'm sorry, and also like 321 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: you know, if if you and you know that there 322 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: was there was also there are people who who like 323 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: weren't tough on crime, people who were like talking about 324 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: who were talking about trying to end like sort of 325 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: like like violent spikes. But if you look at what 326 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: they were saying, it was stuff like we want the 327 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: police to like respect human rights instead of property rights. 328 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, okay, so I yeah, this is 329 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: this is just sort of silly, right, yeah, but but 330 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: but the point of this is that this is basically 331 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: this is their full on broadside against abolitionism as like 332 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: a body of work. Right, it's a sort of modern abolitionism. Um, 333 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: it's directly criticizing Michelle Alexander's The New dream Crow mass 334 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: incarceration in the Age of color blindness. And it's also 335 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: like a volley basically against anyone who's trying to explain 336 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: mass incarceration through race. And so what they argue is 337 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: that crime increase because there wasn't a strong labor movement 338 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: to solve the problem that like caused solve the problems 339 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: that cause crime with economic like reistribution, so the state 340 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: turned like a cheaper option, which is prisons. And is 341 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: it a cheap aproprition? Well, okay, so they're they're they're 342 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: not wrong in this Like, there is some truth here, right, 343 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: which is that there is a reason that mass incarceration 344 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: started spiking when capitalism went into christ Us in the 345 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. And it is actually it is actually 346 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: genuinely cheaper for for for the bourgeoisie to run a 347 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: prison state that it is to run a welfare state. 348 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: But and this is the important part, right, both the 349 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: welfare state and the prison complex are different, are just 350 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: different forms of kind of insurgency it used to be. 351 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: Who is a social democrat is ideologically incapable of understanding this. 352 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: His his entire ideology is that like is based on 353 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: the fact that the welfare state is the end point 354 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: of socialism. But this is completely backwards, right. The welfare 355 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: state and and social democracy were first implemented by Bismarck, 356 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: like specifically as a way to buy workers off, to 357 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: stop them from carrying out a socialist revolution and actually 358 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: seizing the problem, like seizing the property of the ruling 359 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: class and using the production for the benefit of mankind 360 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: and not profit. That is why the ship the welfare 361 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: state was invented. Like, that was the practice. If you 362 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: go back to Edmund Burke right in the French Revolution 363 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: reform to preserve the idea that like we have to 364 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: give people these little, these little slices here, and that 365 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: I give them a treat and then then then then 366 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: then they will never come in and take the cake. 367 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: And if you read these people, they're really explicit about this, 368 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: Like they will just deputely say we're buying off the 369 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: working class. But these absolute clowns have like somehow convinced 370 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: themselves that this is what socialism actually is. Social socialism 371 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: is when socialism is when you confuse table scraps for treats, 372 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: and you know, and and this this comes to sort 373 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: of the other thing that that that these people can't understand, 374 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: which is that social democracy was a class compromise. Right, 375 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: there was a deal that the capitalists of the working 376 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: class agree to. And when I when I say they 377 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: agree to this, right, like, this isn't just sort of 378 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: like an like it kind of is an abstract deal. 379 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: But there are also very literal deals. Right. There's this 380 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: thing called the Treaty of Detroit, which is this massive 381 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: basically set of negotiations. And then are like agreements that 382 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: are made between the US government, like like a huge 383 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: portion of organized labor in the auto industry and the 384 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: auto companies right, which which basically like the substance of 385 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: the treat of Detroit was like, if you give us 386 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: all of this welfare ship and benefits ship, right, we 387 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,239 Speaker 1: won't we will stop constantly going our strike. These are 388 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: explicit deals. They're explicitly being negotiated between these massive trade 389 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: unions and and like the capitals who owned companies by 390 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: the American government, and so they get this deal on 391 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: the deal is you get unions and pension and a 392 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: vacation and like health care as long as you don't 393 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: like seize control of factories and run them for themselves. 394 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: And this held from sort of like the fifties through 395 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: the seventies. But partially this held because also the US specifically, 396 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: which is really really rich as economy was growing really fast. 397 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: But you know, but by by the by the suddenly 398 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: the rate of prophet is starting to collapse, and suddenly 399 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: it does actually become possible to both pay for the 400 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: welfare state and have capital turned into war capital at 401 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: the same time. And you know what happens is full 402 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: on class war over the course of seventies and the eighties, 403 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: and you know, the capitalists win the class war. And 404 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: the product of this, and this is true not just 405 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: in the US, but in in like a lot of 406 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: other neoliberal countries too, is that there is a massive 407 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: military that this the state is sort of stripped down 408 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: to nothing in terms of like providing services, but there's 409 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: this massive build up of the military and police and 410 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: also prisons, and so you know, this isn't some sense 411 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: that like if you if you want a class based 412 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: explanation of mass incarceration, like this is part of what 413 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: like that's a big part of what's going on. It's 414 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: also true that in the US, insofar as there was 415 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: sort of a revolutionary force, it was black people doing 416 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: like like doing the panthers, doing the like blanking on it, 417 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: doing the Black Liberation Army, and this meant that sort 418 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: of the sort of kind of revolution to this was 419 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: specifically about deploying the sort of like like they're deploying 420 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: the state against these people, because yeah, like this movement 421 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: is is actively trying to destroy capitalism by destroying the 422 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: races like police apparatus, and I guess at the same 423 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: time period like aim for instance, Yeah, and you know, 424 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: so the ruling class sort of loses their minds and 425 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: this is this is also this is also part of 426 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: what's happening here. But the problem is the sort of 427 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: jocobin cop free like need the police for their like 428 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: social democratic hell world that they want to build, and 429 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: so they can't have any like it is it is 430 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 1: incredibly structurally dangerous for them for people to be arguing that, 431 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: like the police are inherently a force of like systemic 432 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: racial oppression because they want them around. Yeah, and so 433 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: they do all this. Yeah, And you know, Clegg meanwhile, 434 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: especially I can tell, just doesn't want to use race 435 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: as like an explanation for ship. Like they literally argue 436 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: in this in this thing, like in this in this 437 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: article that white flight was actually just capital flight and 438 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: wasn't about racism. Good, and they just they're they're doing 439 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: this entire thing about right this our political economy of 440 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: the city, and they just they never mentioned they're so 441 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: ruthlessly committed to their program of not talking about racism, 442 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: but don't even mention redlining. It's like like they've managed 443 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: to go to the right of like the Libertarian Party 444 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: on race. It's like outflank them to the right. So 445 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna read more from the Spector article. 446 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: That's like yelling at these people considering their investments in 447 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: the category of violent crime. Clegg, it used to be 448 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: seemed curiously serene about the practices that upheld segregation. They 449 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: would have us believe that such tactics are simply quote 450 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: cast based remedies of exclusion, and that quote such strategies 451 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: were rational, even if suboptimal in the long run, effectively 452 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: rationalizing and apologizing for racism. So this is great. And 453 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: then they capped this off with this giant, like swelling 454 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 1: crescendo of an argument about how the left can't ignore crime. 455 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: And you know, okay, so this is an argument with 456 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: political consequences, right, and you can see those consequences in 457 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: that in the Cops article we were talking about yesterday. 458 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: Um here, here's a quote from that article. This figure 459 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: shows the same prisoner and police data as shown it 460 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: figure one, but this time denominated by the level of 461 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: homicide rather than the population. America's outlying incarceration look rate 462 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: looks normal given the level of serious crime. And now 463 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: the level of policing in the United States appears exceptionally 464 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 1: low compared to other countries. So okay, you you can 465 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: see the line of argument here, right, it goes like 466 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: mass incarceration isn't about race, it's actually about class, and 467 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: actually it's really about crime. And then it goes from 468 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: the crime to oh, well, this is about crime too, 469 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: we need to actually do something about crime. And then 470 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: that turns into the only thing we can do about 471 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: crime is have more cops, you know, and and and 472 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: the other part of this, right, it goes back to 473 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: the thing about like, okay, the thing about like that, 474 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, and this is something that Garrison was talking 475 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: about esterday, right, Like the way in which you can 476 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: only think the level of policing in the US is 477 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: exceptionally low is is if you never interacted with a cop. 478 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: And yes, this is a deliberate thing, right, the sort 479 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: of Dracobin cadre of like Fox Marxist, like their entire 480 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: political project was like originally was driving off the anarchists, 481 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: you'd found it occupy, you know, drinking like and driving 482 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: the people into the political wilderness. It is placed it 483 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: with their sort of beer credit cops socialism. Right, like 484 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: what one of one of the first like big Jocobin 485 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: articles was a giant thing about why the zapatitis are 486 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: to model for the American left because right like this 487 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: is that these people have been anti anarchists like to 488 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: their core. And again because they need cops, they need 489 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: to get rid of the people who hate the cops. 490 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: Like again the people who were actually on the streets 491 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: dreet occupy, who have seen ship like for example, the 492 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: bloody stains on the wall outside of police holding pens 493 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: where the cops smashed the heads into of like every 494 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: single person they arrested, a thing that happened constantly drink occupy, right, 495 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: and these people who you know, have seen the police 496 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: shoot their friends eyes out, like are incredibly inconvenient if 497 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: you're trying to put yourself on top of a police state. 498 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: And you know so of course our abolitionists, which means 499 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: you also need a sideline them them and and these 500 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: are this you know, this sort of StrEG is an old, 501 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: entrenched like position of of of these people. Um In 502 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: Jeremy Gong, who was like the one time basically like 503 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: the dictator of D. S. A. East Bay, was caught 504 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: in in secret documents saying quote, we are not in 505 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: by the way in his capital letters not for abolition 506 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: of prisons. I would go further of black people want 507 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: more police in their neighborhoods. Really, Yeah, Jeremy Gong, by 508 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: the way, Asian dude, not black. Fuck you eat ship. 509 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: I hope you're having fun, Like, well, I don't have 510 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't hope you're having fun. I hope you're having 511 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: a bad time losing another election by getting three percent 512 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: of the vote or some ship like fuck you eat ship. Um. Yeah, 513 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: And I should mention this also, like it's a very 514 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: obvious thing to say, but like it should be pointed 515 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: out that like everyone who's making this argument like that, 516 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: specifically these arguments about cops and about the stuff thing 517 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: about crime, these people are all either wider Asian and 518 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: and I genuinely think that plays a pretty big role 519 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: in why they're doing this. It is just a breathtaking 520 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: position to take as a white person, Like I'm looking 521 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: at the Anarchist bar article which she wrote for news Week, 522 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: great source of unbiased content on the left, about how 523 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: where we need to stop gas lighting progressive need to 524 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: stop gas lighting people on crime too, as a white person, 525 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: take the stand with the platform that has been given 526 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: to you, with all the privileges that you have had, 527 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: and and gas like black folks about the importance of race. 528 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: It's just breathtaking lee lacking in like context of self 529 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: awareness or like have you not been fucking paying attention 530 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: like at least for the last two years, if not 531 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: for the last twenty years, you know, And I mean 532 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: like this is the whole thing where like they have 533 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: this whole sort of political project that's like like makes 534 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: talking about like their goal is to make talking about 535 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: this ship sound cringe because you know, they and they 536 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: have to write and this is this, this is this 537 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: is also sort of class based survival strategy, right because 538 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: like they these people couldn't fucking hack it as abolitionist scholars. 539 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: They have no fucking idea what they're talking about. Right 540 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: If they if they if they have to actually intellectually 541 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: like be in the same sphere as like someone like 542 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: Ruth Gilmore Wilson, they are going to get fucking blow 543 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: Like these people look like this is this is like 544 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: a fucking battle cruiser going to war gets a speedboat, right, Like, 545 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: they can't fucking hack it, and so they have to 546 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: sort of like do all of this ship to convince 547 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: people that like no, no no, no, it's actually really not 548 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: about race. Uh, it's it's actually about class, this thing 549 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: that I can very easily pretend to care about for 550 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: academia in a way that I can't with you know, 551 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: pretending to care about race, because like I, I I, I 552 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: can't even fucking fake it, right, And you know, I 553 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: would say, this's like back in right, like Germany, Gong 554 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: and his allies are very careful to frame their view 555 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: in terms of like, wow, we want to end mass 556 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: incarceration in police violence, but we have to be tactical 557 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: about how we do it. And the tactical about how 558 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: we do it is black people want more cops, right, 559 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: But that that was their in sternal documents. Their external 560 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: their external statements were like, well some police abolitionism and 561 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: stuff looks like more cops anyways. But but you know, 562 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: internally they were always saying this. And now with the 563 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, these people think that there's a political right 564 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: turn coming and they think that, you know, they can 565 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: fucking take their mask off and just say what they 566 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: really bean, which is fire fucking cops, and you know, 567 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: and part of what's going on here, right, It's like 568 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: like the reason this is happening is because when the 569 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: uprising happened, these people were just caught with their pants 570 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: down because their entire political project for like fucking how 571 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: how how many years were they doing this? Like seven 572 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: years was elect Bernie Sanders and then he lost back 573 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: to back successively to like Hillary Clinton, who was maybe 574 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: the least popular can the Democrats have ever run ever? 575 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: And Joe Biden, who is a fucking senile rapist who 576 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: like again was like um, they they lost his election 577 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: to a man who couldn't remember who who he had 578 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: been vice president under and they couldn't beat him, right, like, 579 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: so these people were completely discredited, and then you know, 580 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: the uper thing happened is people were caught with their 581 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: pants down because they spent their entire fucking time or 582 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: like arguing that like there's no path liberation through race, 583 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: like race, by any kind of race politics at all, 584 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: intersectionalities bullshit, like we just have to focus on class. 585 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: You just to focus on class, and they're fucking pure class. 586 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: Electoral campaign failed in oh hey, guess what it failed 587 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: in the South, Like wow, damn, I wonder why this 588 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: politics fucking got swept by Joe Biden. Okay, and then 589 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, and then and then the up the uprising starts, 590 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: and the uprising is you know, the uprising is about 591 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: anti racism. It is about people looking at the at 592 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: the violence like of the police against black people and 593 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: going fuck this and they have nothing right, like the 594 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,719 Speaker 1: whole intellectual leadership here, like all these people are fucking 595 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: calling for world crops. Bernie Sanders is arguing for more cops, right, 596 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: like Chopo was fucking Trapa was literally making the same 597 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: arguments that my fucking mayor made. Well, she was raising 598 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: the fucking drawbridges is stop protesters from being able to 599 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: get back into the middle of Chicago, which is that actually, 600 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: like cops, becoming a cop is actually one of a 601 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: few ways that are not white people can join the 602 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: middle class. Right. I was like, think, I think Amber 603 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: made that argument. Right, Um, so you know they have 604 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: nothing right, and you know, okay, and and and you know, 605 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: and the uprising eventually get suppressed, which the best thing 606 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: that ever happened to these people, because if the uprising 607 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: has to see, these people were done right. Like, but 608 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: all of this has enormous consequences, right, which is the 609 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: failure of the working class to appear at the ballot box. 610 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: And like Paul, Bernie Sanders over the line against Joe 611 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: Biden revealed something that was like patently obvious to anyone 612 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: who've been watching how the working class is moving worldwide 613 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: for the past twenty years, which is that the only 614 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: thing that can actually unify that if you care about 615 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: class politics, the only thing that can unify the working 616 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: class and pull it together as a coherent political force 617 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: to do a thing is their hatred of the police. 618 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: If if you look at if you look at what 619 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: the working working class politics in the century, the world 620 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: working class finds his historical unity exactly and only on 621 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: the barricade. It appears undivided. Literally nowhere else it is impossible. 622 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: You can't do it. The only thing that does it 623 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: is fighting the police more broadly in like means of 624 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: state violence. Right, Like if we look at the popular 625 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: friend in Spain, it isn't you even get like cops 626 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: who are installed by a socialist republican government joining the 627 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: working class to fight the minitary. But yeah, instead we're 628 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: going to be like the working class will be united 629 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: in this op ed and newsweek dot com. And there's 630 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: the smoking electoral thing, right And it's like no, and 631 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: I think that like this this is partially about this 632 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: people not understanding the sort of broad arc of of 633 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: the last decade a decade and a half, which is that, like, 634 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: this was the actual meaning behind the people want to 635 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: follow the regime. Right, this, this was what was going 636 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: on in the last decade of uprising in the street 637 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: movements across the world. Right, is that that was the 638 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: thing that could unify the working class. But of course, 639 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: and and this is the sort of secret of all 640 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: of this, right, Like, these people don't want to unify 641 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: the working class. They only want to unify it if 642 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: it's under their control. The erupt eruption of you know, 643 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: like actually the working class standing side by side together 644 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: fighting the cops on barricades in twenty was the worst 645 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: thing that could possibly happen to them, because you know, 646 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,239 Speaker 1: it pointed to another way of doing politics that they 647 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: like in the in the street that they thought they'd 648 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: you know, crushed after the feet of occupy. And yeah, 649 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: and you know, and they were, they were they were 650 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: incredibly scared by this. They were piste off by this. 651 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I I I mentioned last episode, I 652 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: was going to talk about the sort of class politics 653 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: that's at work here, because you know, these demands for 654 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: more cops, like they don't come from the working class. Right, Like, 655 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: in so far as there's ever been a referendum on 656 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: the police as an institution, it was, and you know, 657 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: we know what that looked like, right, it was. It 658 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: was a bunch of working class kids went into the 659 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: streets and you know and fought like lions against the 660 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: fucking cops. And even the sort of liberal like the 661 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: liberal middle and professional classes like eventually turned against them, 662 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, as as rolled on, right, and you know, 663 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: like those people still hung on for months and months 664 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: and months, you know, like refusing to leave the streets 665 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: even after the fucking federal marshal sort of literally assassinating 666 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: people openly in the streets. Right, Like the whole demand 667 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: from more cops for like a harsher crackdown on crime, 668 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: all of this stuff comes from precisely the opposite direction. Right. 669 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: It's entirely generated by the by the by by by 670 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: basically the media class. Right. It's it's class based is 671 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: a combination of these sort of like faux progressive like 672 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: media outlets. And originally the starts with the New York 673 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post and then moves left are 674 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: nominally left right, and it it hits like the fucking 675 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: T I T and all of their like bullshit, right, 676 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: and then you know, and and then at that point, 677 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: having having having went through the media people, right, it's 678 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 1: it starts running through these pseudo radical academics like Christopher 679 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: Lewis and Autinari Sami and then the last group of 680 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: people who are backing this is this is a very 681 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: weird one. But there's a collection of paid union staffers 682 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: who like for their jobs because they're in the big 683 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: union's work on police and prison guard contracts. Um, this 684 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: this is actually this is this is. This has been 685 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: a huge problem that the say in in in one 686 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: of the NPC elections, they had um for the for 687 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: the National Political Committee, which is like the d s 688 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: A is big major body, like governing body. Right. They 689 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: they accident people accidentally elected a police union organizer because 690 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: he was like they knew he was a union organizer, 691 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: they didn't know that he organized police unions. And then 692 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: he fucking refeat like nothing, nothing was going to happen. 693 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: And then basically what happened is everyone had left the 694 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: organization bullied him out and so he resigned. But like, yeah, 695 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of those people right, and those people's 696 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: classes actims are incredibly obvious. Right, But didn't the a 697 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: f l c i O even in like refused to 698 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: reject police unions right there, But like, no, people, if 699 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: I remember, if I remember, I think I think someone 700 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: threw a mall to of like into the headquarters the 701 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: because of it, Like yeah, like this this, this is 702 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: the whole fucking thing, and you know, like this sucks. 703 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: Cops are not fucking workers, Jesus rist. Like they're they're 704 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: just not if you if you look at what they 705 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: actually do, they are they they're they're like they're basically 706 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 1: minor feudal lords in that they extract rent from everyone 707 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: by fucking walking up people and robbing them, and then 708 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: they also extract rent directly from us by staking by stealing, 709 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: just like enormous increasingly large about the city funds under 710 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: basically the threat of extortion and violence. Lill yeah, it's 711 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: it's it's ship. I want to come back to a 712 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: sort of left PDA albums, right, because what we've been 713 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: seeing here is that as as these load of left 714 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: media outlets get larger, right, they increasingly adopt like insane 715 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: small business tyrant politics. Because that's that's your different coming, 716 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 1: right too. I t notoriously tried to bust its own 717 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: union staff. Yeah, because it turns out as journalists become 718 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: bosses and capitalists, they have they have their own class 719 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: to just look out for, right, Yeah, and they will 720 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: continue producing this class discourse which serves as nothing other 721 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: than like best like a safety sort of steam valve, 722 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: right for people who are frustrated by the class situation. 723 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: And they're work in if if not like an outright 724 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: sort of disinformation campaign about what class is. Yeah, and 725 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: you know, and and and there's I think there's another 726 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: thing going on here too, which is that like, okay, 727 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: if if you're like a sort of like media outlets 728 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: and your things that you hate liberals and that you're 729 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: on the left, right, there's there's kind of a cap 730 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: to your audience base, and specifically as a cap that 731 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: the kind of audience you can have that actually has money, 732 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: because you know, you can you can get a broke 733 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: base and sort of progressive workers, and you can get 734 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: some college students, right, but at some point, like those 735 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: those are not people that have a large amount of money. Yeah, 736 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 1: And at some point, the right offers a listener base 737 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: that has a bunch of money and this gives you 738 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: a revenue base for sort of would be like media 739 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: check who is hitting the limits of their original base, 740 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: and this is responsible for things like like Max Blue 741 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: Mental and X like two reporter Jimmy Door like descending. 742 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: It's just full on COVID nihilism and con I mean, 743 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's not like these people were 744 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: like doing good before, but like, you know, full on 745 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: right wing, like like Matt Max Blue Menhal going from 746 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: being like the most pro CCP guy the world has 747 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: ever seen to literally writing articles about how social credit 748 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: is coming to the US UH in the form of 749 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: COVID restrictions like this kind of ship and you know, 750 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: so like that that's part of the class politics going 751 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: on here. Like there's another thing, which is like, okay, 752 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: there's the Harvard academics. I don't think we need to 753 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: say anything complicated about their class loyalties except that like 754 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: none of these dipships are ever be beaten half the 755 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: death by a cop um. Yeah, I mean we talked 756 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: about the union bureaucrats, right, Um, they're more complicated. But again, 757 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: like in class terms, you get people who are either 758 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: driven by purely by sort of the revenue that copying 759 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: is bring in. And then you get people who are 760 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: opposed to political organizations like the d s A taking 761 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: firm stances against police union or going measers because it 762 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: would affect their own ability to win off, like win 763 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: elections inside the d s A, A thing that has 764 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: happens so many times. It's great. It's it's very funny 765 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: that they chose classes, and they chose like education level 766 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: as their proxy for class. And we are discussing this 767 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 1: in the same week that we release an episode about 768 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: a grad student strike at the largest university in the 769 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: country because grad students are unhoused because they can't afford 770 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: to pay their rent and feed themselves. It is it 771 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: is atrocious. Ship Like, okay, I need people, Um yeah, 772 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: So I want to close off by talking about something, 773 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: which is that there's also a political angle to all 774 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: of this. Right, these people, all of these people doing 775 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: this fucking ton crime bullshit, all these people fucking going right. 776 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: All of these people calculated that a right turn in 777 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: American politics was coming right. That's why t Ye t 778 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: endorse a fucking literally a Republican in California who was 779 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: also an insane tough on crime guy. This is why 780 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: that's why they had uh no, no Caruso. Yeah, who 781 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: was a Republican who changed his party affiliations that we 782 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: could run the democratic thing. Who fucking sucks asked, that's 783 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: why theyre that, that's why they had Matt quote alleged 784 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: pedophile Gates on their show on election night, Larry Elder 785 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: on this show as well, like election denialist Larry Elder. Yeah, 786 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: like this this wasn't just a pure product of these 787 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: people going insane watching videos of like people looting grocery 788 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: stores and her to get tough on crime reactionaries. This 789 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: was the political calculation and stuff. But yeah, but but 790 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: but they sucked up, Right, These people fundamentally don't understand 791 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: what this country is. They're scared, they've given up. They 792 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: saw a single homeless person on the street and turn 793 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: into a fascist, and they think that the American people 794 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 1: are just hopelessly reactionary and the only thing that's left 795 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: to do was solve the situation by selling out. And 796 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: they're smart, they don't think. They don't credit people with 797 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: having like compassion or empathy or intelligence either, right, they 798 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: think they would go the direction that stupid grift show 799 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: points yeah, and and and they're wrong. They're incredibly wrong. 800 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 1: This is a country that, in the name of fighting 801 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: racism and the police, in the name of solidarity with 802 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: people who are not their fucking sales, people who they 803 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: will literally never beat, put on a mass picked up 804 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: a brick and waged war against the best funded police 805 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: force in human history. And for like a week and 806 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: a half, those same fucking Americans who the entire political 807 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: spectrum had written office hopelessly beaten down and passive and 808 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: right wing and like people people who will take any 809 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: amount of abuse and never say anything, back wrecked. The 810 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: fucking wrecked the cop shit so hard they lost control 811 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: over the centers of made multiple major American cities and 812 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: had to call in the fucking National Guard, who in 813 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: turn got their ship wrecked so hard that they had 814 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: to rely on liberal civil society to call him the 815 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 1: protest down. And even then, the president would have fucking 816 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: deployed the army against them if he had actually been 817 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,919 Speaker 1: physically able to. And the old reason that these people 818 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: weren't fighting the fucking army in the streets was that 819 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,919 Speaker 1: was that the fucking American generals refused to go along 820 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: with it, right, like that that is who the U 821 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: s is that that that is whose generation is. This 822 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: generation is forever the generation that burned the Third Precinct, 823 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: and the fucking X left is running right. Just don't 824 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: fucking get it right. They think the entire clock has 825 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: been brown back. They think that like those that, like 826 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: the people who did that, I've already been destroyed. They 827 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: don't matter. The only thing left, you know, that you 828 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: can do is join them right and mitiget the damage. 829 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: And they're fucking wrong. They are wrong. They can't see it. 830 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: They cannot see that there is no way to turn 831 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: the clock back to before the uprising happened. They can't 832 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: see that, like this entire country, that the that the 833 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: American working class, that parts of the people who are 834 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: not part of the American working class have been fundamentally changed. 835 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: And yeah, they just they just can't see it. And 836 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: because they can't see it, the only thing that they're 837 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: ever going to feel is the way that there is 838 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: the only thing they can feel is the way of 839 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: their ignorance. And the only thing they're going to feel 840 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: on top of that is them getting fucking buried by 841 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: the way of the history. That has left them behind. 842 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: Because fun, these people, fuck the cops. Fun the people 843 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: who support the cops. These people will be down, but 844 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: will be fucking drowned by the tide of history they 845 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: thought didn't fucking exist. Fuck them. Okay this is what Yeah, 846 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 1: you can probably tell I wrote this really really piste 847 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: off at five in the fucking morning, because Jesus Christ, 848 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. Pick up 849 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 1: a brick, put down the young turks. Yeah, don't. Don't 850 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: fucking support more cops. Every every everyone will hate you. 851 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: Your coworkers will hate you, your friends will hate you, 852 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: your family will hit you. The guy, the guy at 853 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: the fucking quarter store will hate you. Yeah. And if 854 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: you find your fucking left hero standing the people who 855 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,240 Speaker 1: murdered George Floyd or stood around and watch George Floyd 856 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: being murdered, then they are not a leftist anymore. It's 857 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: okay to tell them to fuck off and die. Yeah, 858 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: And I mean like, and we can go back to 859 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: this our first episode, right, Like, the reason these people 860 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: are calling for five more cops is that they've given 861 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: up entirely. Right. They literally do not think it is 862 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: possible for anything to ever even the us and then 863 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 1: when they are wrong. Yeah, and I think that they're 864 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: okay with the way that our police behave and there 865 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,399 Speaker 1: if that makes him feel comfortable and safe, then they 866 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: don't mind people die at the hands in the police. 867 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: Cops protect rich people. These people have gotten wealthy enough 868 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: to have the cops now benefit them. It's it's that simple, 869 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: Like that's that, that's it's it's it's I think that 870 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: really is the yeah, trying motivator here. And like I 871 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: will say this to like if we ever get to 872 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 1: a point where we start sucking doing this, like take 873 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: us down to this. This is this isn't just a 874 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: sort of like we're trying to build our business whatever. 875 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't fucking care. I would I 876 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: would rather fucking go broke in the streets. I would 877 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: rather fucking die than be a person whose job it 878 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,240 Speaker 1: is to say we need more cops. Fuck these people. God, 879 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: yeah m M. They've blocked me on Twitter, so I 880 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: can't say get off to them podcast fans. God, we 881 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: are not inciting harassment. Campaign instead, go nowhere other things. Yeah, 882 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: don't waste don't Yeah, it was seriousness. Don't waste your 883 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,800 Speaker 1: time doing discourse with people who exist to create bullshit 884 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,839 Speaker 1: discourse said, just a distraction. Go and help someone needs 885 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: your help. It's cold, it's wet, it's winter time, and 886 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 1: their own the house, people who are shivering on the streets. 887 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: So don't funk with the young turks. Just ignore them 888 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: their pointless go go go, go out there and fucking 889 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 1: build the socialism that these people think is impossible, because 890 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: we can do it, and we will, and then we 891 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: will laugh at them because we've done it and they 892 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: are fucking bullshit. Yeah, that's that's the episode. It Could 893 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. But 894 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool 895 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the 896 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 897 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, 898 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 899 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.