1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode. 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: This is Mushroom Foraging Part two. Part one was last Saturday. 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: This episode originally published September. Here you go, Welcome to 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind, production of My Heart Radio. Hey, 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's part two 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: of Mushroom Foraging. We we started going into the woods 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: and we got lost, and uh so we had to 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: we had to say, you know what, this is actually 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: two episodes. Here we are again with part two. All right, 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: let's jump right in. So we already talked about how 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: mushroom hunting appears to be this really popular activity in Russia, 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: and this goes way back and so popular that there 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: are these common media stories about people getting lost in 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: the wilderness because they went into a trance while mushroom 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: hunting and then they couldn't find their way home. But 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: apparently things are very similar in Poland. It's also a 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: very common activity to go mushroom hunting in Poland. And Uh. 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: The Polish romantic poet Adam mits Kevitch, who lived from 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty five, wrote famously about mushroom foraging in his 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: epic poem pan Tadash. And so I was looking at 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: this in a few different translations. I think the clearest one, 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: unfortunately doesn't go for the whole poetry and meter of it. 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: It's a prose translation by George Rapaul Noyus. But I 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: think this will give the best sense of the passage, 28 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: maybe losing a bit of the music. Are you ready, 29 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: Robert Okay? So there are these characters who are The 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: basic drama of Pantadash is about this conflict between these 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: clans over some kind of real estate dispute. I've never 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: read the whole thing, but I like the parts I 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: have read. And and so it's got all these, uh, 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: these fancy ladies and lads going out to hunt for 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: mushrooms in the forest, and they've announced that, you know, 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: whichever lad finds the fanciest mushroom will get to sit 37 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: next to the prettiest girl in the castle. And it's 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Uh. And so it goes into 39 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: the section on mushrooms, quote of mushrooms, there were plenty. 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: The lads gathered the fair cheeked fox mushrooms, so famous 41 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: in the Lithuanian songs as the emblem of maidenhood. For 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: the worms do not eat them, and marvelous to say 43 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: no insect alights on them. The young ladies hunted for 44 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: the slender pine lover, which the song calls the kernel 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: of the mushrooms. And that's colonel like the military rank, 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: not like popcorn. I don't know why it wouldn't be 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: the general of mushrooms. But moving on, all were eager 48 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: for the orange agaric. This, though of more modest stature 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: and less famous in song, is still the most delicious, 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: whether fresh or salted, whether in autumn or in winter. 51 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: But the snochal gathered the toadstool flybain. The remainder of 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: the mushroom family, are despised because they are injurious or 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: of poor flavor, But they are not useless. They give 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: food to beasts and shelter to insects, and are an 55 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: ornament to the groves. On the green cloth of the meadows, 56 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: they rise up like lines of table dishes. Here are 57 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: the leaf mushrooms with their rounded borders, silver, yellow, and 58 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: red like little glasses filled with various sorts of wine, 59 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: the coslac like the bulging bottom of an upturned cup, 60 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: the funnels like slender champagne glasses, the round white, broad 61 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: flat white ease like china coffee cups filled with milk, 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: and the round puff ball filled with a blackish dust 63 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: like a pepper shaker. The names of the others are 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: known only in the language of hay errors or wolves 65 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: by men. They have not been christened, but they are innumerable. 66 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: No one deigns to touch the wolf for hair varieties, 67 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: but whenever a person bends down to them, he straightaway 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: perceives his mistake, grows angry, and breaks the mushroom or 69 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: kicks it with his foot, in thus defiling the grass. 70 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: He acts with great indiscretion. I like at the end 71 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: there he gets a little bit offended on behalf of 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: the grass. I guess I'm not sure I fully understand 73 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: the meaning of that last statement, but I wanted to 74 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: look at a couple of things about this passage. Um. 75 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: So one is that first, while while Russian and Polish 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: cultures are considered to have a great affinity for mushrooms, 77 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: making them generally Mico philick in some terminology that will 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: address a little bit later in the episode. Uh, this doesn't, 79 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:54,679 Speaker 1: of course, manifest as a love for all mushrooms unqualified. Instead, 80 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: it seems to me that the mushroom loving culture actually 81 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: has a highly discriminated eating I from mushrooms, noticing much 82 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: more the important and perhaps life saving differences between varieties. 83 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: So like a mushroom culture doesn't just love mushrooms. It's 84 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: more like they really love the good ones and really 85 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: hate the bad ones. But of course plenty of mushroom 86 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: hunting and accidental mushroom poisoning happens even in the modern era. 87 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: In Poland, I was looking at a scientific report compiling 88 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: cases of mushroom poisoning in Poland from the year's nineteen 89 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: sixty two to nineteen sixty seven by an author named 90 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: Eliza Lewandowska, and this was called Mushroom Poisoning in Poland 91 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: in the years nineteen sixty two to sixty seven. Species 92 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: of poisonous fungi. Now there's no surprise at all here 93 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: that the species representing the most danger was our old 94 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: friend Amanita feloides or the deathcap mushroom. We we've talked 95 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: about this already, right, yes, now, this one was responsible 96 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: for at least four hundred and sixty one cases of 97 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: poisoning and a hundred and twenty six deaths by this survey. 98 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: A commonly cited figure that I've seen elsewhere is that 99 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: death caps today represent more than of fatal mushroom poisonings worldwide. 100 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: So so they're the real bad boy in terms of 101 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: accidental accidental mushroom poisoning. Um. But I was also reading 102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: about how the specific way that Amanda filoids kills is deceptive, 103 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: lee devious. So when somebody eats this mushroom, it's not 104 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: necessarily what you would picture where you eat it and 105 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: then you're immediately doubled over in pain and you know, 106 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: and hallucinating and sweating with a fever and screaming. Instead, 107 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: when somebody eats the Amanda floids, it doesn't necessarily cause 108 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: any immediate pain or discomfort. In fact, people often don't 109 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: have any symptoms at all for many hours I've read, 110 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: sometimes maybe six hours later, sometimes even not until like 111 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: a full day later. And then the cramps and the 112 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: nausea and the vomiting and the diarrhea. Set in, and 113 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: I've read that this can make it easy to mistake 114 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: the poisoning for something else. You might think you've got 115 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: a stomach bug or whatever because of the length of 116 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: time between eating the mushroom and the onset of symptoms. 117 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: And uh. And at this point, after the symptoms set in, 118 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: they can sometimes even retreat, they can grow milder if 119 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: the patient is properly cared for, properly hydrated, and all that. 120 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: The entire time the amanita toxins are in the background, 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: just massacring cells in the liver and harming the kidneys, 122 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: eventually leading to organ failure and eventually to death. And 123 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that there's there's something kind of especially 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: terrifying about that that there's this You can have this 125 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: false sense that things are getting better and that, oh, 126 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling a little bit better than I was earlier, 127 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: or maybe I'm not even feeling bad at all, while 128 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: the mushroom is actively killing your vital organs. I think 129 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: it also underlines just the sort of precision that had 130 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: to take place in figuring out the properties of theirs 131 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: mushrooms and and other organisms in one's environment, you know, 132 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: because this is clearly something where you you would have 133 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: to do a little detective work to figure out it. Yeah, 134 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: exactly what had caused this awful illness in the individual. Exactly. 135 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: But in in second place for poisonings was a species 136 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: that is also interesting and and requires a similar kind 137 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: of precision, but with a different difficulty. I don't think 138 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: we've talked about this one yet. The second place in 139 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: the Polish survey for for most poisoning and death was 140 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: gyrometra esculenta, or the false moral. Mushroom. Uh, that's moral 141 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: like m O R E L moral mushrooms dot morals 142 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, doing good h Yeah, And so in this survey, 143 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: the false moral was responsible for a hundred and sixty 144 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: four cases of poisoning and ten deaths in this time, 145 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: in the sixties. Now, the false moral is a very 146 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: strange and interesting case study in fungal toxicity because, first 147 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: of all, it looks crazy. It looks like a brain 148 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: on a stick, or not even a normal brain. It 149 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: looks like if you tried to make a raisin out 150 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: of a brain. Yeah, it kind of looks like what 151 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: you have, mushroom but ground chuck, you know. Yeah, it's 152 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: got the little grinder extrusion patterns. Yeah, it does. It 153 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: looks kind of like it's come out of a machine 154 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: in a way. I agree, had an extruded kind of 155 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: appearance to it. But a lot of delicious mushrooms look 156 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: very strange and very unlike other foods we eat. So 157 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, that's fine. Um. But but gyrometra is an 158 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: interesting case because the toxicity seems to vary a lot. 159 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Just one example I was reading in a stat pearls 160 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: entry by Horowitz, Kong and Horowitz and the author's report quote, 161 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: most poisonings occur in Eastern Europe, particularly in the conifer 162 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: forests of Germany, Poland, and Finland. In North America, most 163 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: exposures occur in Michigan, although I less toxic variety grows 164 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: west of the Rockies and has been clustered in Idaho 165 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: and Western Canada. Exposures occur mostly in the spring, unlike 166 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: other serious mushroom poisonings such as Amanita filoids, which occur 167 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: more commonly in the fall. So there's this geographical distribution 168 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: I've read about how there are different rates of poisoning 169 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: from the false morale depending on where the mushroom was grown. 170 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: You know, in in different countries and at different altitudes 171 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: and things like that. It seems to vary a lot 172 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: depending on you know, what local strain you're getting, and 173 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: possibly due to interactions with you know, with the body 174 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: of the person who eats it. Another thing I've read 175 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: is that poisoning is here are much more common when 176 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: these mushrooms are eaten raw. Now, there's one thing that 177 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: poison control authorities often emphasize, which is that you should 178 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: not use intuitive smell and taste senses to figure out 179 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: what is poisonous in the mushroom world, because even though 180 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: our senses of smell and taste are certainly evolved to 181 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: help us figure out what's good to eat, they are 182 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: not an infallible guide. And a great example of this 183 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: is once again the deathcap mushroom, one of the most 184 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: dangerous mushrooms to humans and the most deadly one in Poland. 185 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: During that survey we were just talking about the deathcap 186 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: mushroom does not taste like poison. It reportedly does not 187 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: taste bitter, does not taste sour, does not you know, 188 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: set your mouth on fire with needles going into your tongue. 189 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: In fact, it is widely said to be absolutely delicious. 190 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: There are people who have had these hepatotoxic mushrooms absolutely 191 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: destroy their liver. But they report that, you know, before 192 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: the pain and the nausea set in, six hours later, 193 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: twenty four hours later, when whenever it is while they're 194 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: eating these mushrooms, they are some of the best tasting 195 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: mushrooms that they've ever had. They're said to smell sweet 196 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: like honey and taste absolutely delightful, sauteed and butter. Don't 197 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: do this, don't It's not worth it. It will kill you. 198 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: Do not take the death cap challenge something like that 199 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: on YouTube. No, not at all. But but this does 200 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: bring me back to an interesting observation from Miskovich, which 201 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: is that some of the species of mushroom that are 202 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: detestable to humankind, and I'm sure the death cap is 203 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: one of these in in his survey, they're known in 204 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: the cultures of what he calls the wolves or the hairs, 205 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, the language of wolves or rabbits. Now, you 206 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: might think that this is just another folk tale about 207 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: the animals of the forest, but I think that this 208 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: could actually be based on real observation, because despite being 209 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: one of the most deadly fungui to humans. It is 210 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily deadly to everything in the forest all of 211 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: the time. It came across one statement about this when 212 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: I was reading an article about the spread of the 213 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: death cap mushroom throughout North America, and this was by 214 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: Craig Child's in The Atlantic. It's a very interesting article. 215 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: It's worth reading. A Child's talks about how death mushrooms 216 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: naturally live in a symbiotic relationship with host trees. And 217 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: we've talked about how several mushroom species are like this. 218 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: They attached themselves to the roots of trees, and they 219 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: sort of trade resources between them, uh and so that 220 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: they're able to get some nutrition from from tree roots. 221 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: And this is the reason that you will often find 222 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: them sort of in a ring of deadly fruiting bodies 223 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: around the roots of a central tree trunk. But their 224 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: spores don't naturally tend to spread very far, at least 225 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: under normal circumstances, and it has taken human intervention to 226 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: really set them spreading far and wide. Specifically, what's named 227 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: by Craig Child's in this article is that deathcap mushrooms 228 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: have been spreaded spreading rapidly throughout northwest North America, riding 229 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: along on the roots of imported European trees, like imported 230 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: sweet chestnut trees and beech trees. So you get this 231 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: fancy tree from Europe, it's got deathcap mushrooms in a 232 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: relationship with it. You bring the tree over here planted, 233 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: and it brings the poisonous mushrooms with it. But anyway, 234 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: the reason I brought this article up was that there's 235 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: this quick side note where Child's mentions that that squirrels 236 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: and rabbits have sometimes been observed to eat deathcap mushrooms 237 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: without being harmed at all, which sounds again like like 238 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: mits Kevich, like that, you know, the hairs don't really 239 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: mind the mushrooms that the humans find absolutely detestable. And 240 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: so I think that's interesting. It's another indication of what 241 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: you should not do. You should not watch what animals 242 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: eat in the forest to determine what would be okay 243 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: for you to eat, because they may be able to 244 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: digest and metabolize stuff just fine that would absolutely kill 245 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: you with just a few mouthfuls. And also in this 246 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: just another reason to respect the mighty squirrel. Yes, yeah, 247 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: I saw squirrels were thrown in there too, So I'm 248 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: sure our fans are gonna gonna go hog wild about that. Sure, 249 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: meme away, yeah me until you drop. But one last 250 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to add about this was I saw 251 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: some mushroom enthusiasts online just in common sections and stuff, 252 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: saying that they kind of wish they had whatever resistance 253 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: these rabbits have to to the death cap toxicity is 254 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: because they would love to taste them. For one, since 255 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, by all accounts, when people eat them, even 256 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: though it kills them, they are very tasty. Interesting. Um, 257 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, in our previous episode we mentioned were mentioned 258 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: a few different mushroom foraging cultures, and I believe Scottish 259 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: culture came up. As luck would have it, was watching uh, 260 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: the the TV adaptation of Outlander last night. Watching that, yeah, 261 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: and in the second episode what happens they're forging for mushrooms, 262 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: talking about them, the medicinal use of mushrooms and which 263 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: ones are good to eat and which ones are poisonous. 264 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: I found it rather interesting. Also castle they used in 265 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: that show, same castle they used in Highlander and in 266 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: Monty Python and the Holy Grail, So it's got that 267 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: going for it. So even in your ultimate kilt lift 268 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: or narrative. You cannot escape a good mushroom hunt, right, 269 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: I mean that's I mean you've got time travel in there, 270 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: so it's a it's it's a big part of the 271 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: plot apparently, at least as I can gather thus far. Well, 272 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: whether you're time traveling or not, whether you forge for 273 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: mushrooms or not, stay away from the death caps. Just 274 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: just don't even try it now. Of course, this is 275 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: this goes way back, this this basic um reality that 276 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: we're discussing here, and we've we've covered humanities hunter gatherer 277 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: past on the show before. I mean the basic is 278 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're omnivores, and mushrooms have always been 279 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: on the table. Uh. Though, of course our ancestors had 280 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: to devise the expertise to avoid harmful species, as well 281 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: as figuring out which ones are beneficial, which ones can 282 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: be food, etcetera. Right. One of the resources we were 283 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: looking at for this section was Eric BoA's Wild Edible 284 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: Fun Guy. A Global Overview of their use and importance 285 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, it looks like this was a report 286 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: compiled for the Food MAgric Culture Organization of the u 287 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: N in two thousand four. Yeah, and uh and Boa 288 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: points out and mentioned a few different facts. He points 289 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: out here, first of all, wild edible fungi are collected 290 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: for food in more than eighty countries, and we're dealing 291 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: with more than one thousand, one hundred species. And interestingly enough, 292 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: some cultures may be viewed is microphobic being you know, 293 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: meaning there's a fear of mushrooms or a reluctance to 294 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: engage in mushroom consumption and foraging, while other cultures are 295 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: are microphilic meaning you know, the loving mushrooms, you know, 296 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: being open to those experiences in those quests, with English 297 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: culture standing interestingly enough as an example of of microphobic 298 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: UH culture, while Chinese culture, he mentions, is a strongly 299 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: micophilic culture. He points out that a lot of Chinese 300 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: writings on mushrooms have yet to be translated, but there's 301 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: a lot of material there. Now. I found this very 302 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: interesting because I've've certainly seen some documentaries um that really 303 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: focus in on on British and Scottish traditions regarding mushroom hunting. Yeah, 304 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: and of course that highlights that these designations. I've seen 305 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: these designations used by other people as well. Burtleson talks 306 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: about this, where you know, cultures that are predominantly microphobic 307 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: or microphilic, they're all gonna be relative, right Like, within 308 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: each of these broad cultures there will be subcultures and 309 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: individuals that sort of run against the grain. Um. But 310 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: on the note of of of Chinese culture being microphilic, 311 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: of course that comes through in in certain types of 312 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: ancient medical practices, but also in cuisine. And I just 313 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: think about one of my earliest memories of Chinese food. 314 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: I've loved Chinese food as long as I can remember, 315 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: but one of my earliest memories is of the unidentifiable 316 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: fungus within the Chinese soup I was eating, and how 317 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: much I loved it, and how how it was like 318 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: there was nothing else like this in my diet. I 319 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: guess it was probably a type of black fungus in 320 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: a hot and sour soup, and I is just like, 321 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: what is this? I have no idea. It's like something 322 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: from another planet, and it's delicious. But as to microphobia, 323 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: Burdleston mentions evidence of strains of microphobic thinking in many 324 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: of the historic common names for mushrooms and some European cultures, 325 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: for example, though today we think of French cuisine as 326 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: being very very pro mushroom. Historically, there was some French 327 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: aversion to mushrooms, like calling mushrooms things like eggs of 328 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: the devil or the devil's paint brush, or toads bread. 329 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: Of course, there's the English expression toad stool. In Danish 330 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: and Norwegian you have variations on PoTA hot toad's hat, 331 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: and in Germanic and Celtic cultures. Burtleson writes that you 332 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: sometimes see an association between mushrooms and witchcraft, and this 333 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: association may have played a role in keeping the British 334 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: aisles relatively microphobic for for many centuries. You know, I 335 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: can't help be reminded. I'm sure I've brought this up 336 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: up on the show before. Um, but there's that that 337 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: wonderful um a little bit in uh burd of Echos 338 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: the Name of the Rose, where there's the story of 339 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: of one monk. You know, it's like a multi multi cultural, 340 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: multi linguistic community of monks there, and one is talking 341 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: about having this pig that will accompany them into the 342 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: woods to search for truffles, and the the other monk 343 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: that's hearing this story is I believe German, and he 344 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: thinks that he's not saying truffle but to full, which 345 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: is a German for devil. So he thinks this is 346 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: a horrific story of this weird pig that will accompany 347 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: uh you into the woods so that you can seek 348 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: out the devil. I remember that moment, and that's oh man, 349 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: that's so emblematic of everything I love about Name of 350 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: the Rose. Now, in terms of the ancient uh uh 351 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: foraging for mushrooms and the use of mushrooms by by 352 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: human beings, you know, there's there's apparently evidence in what 353 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: is now Chile of mushroom consumption by humans thirteen thousand 354 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: years ago. Um Obsouly the iceman who we've mentioned on 355 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: the show before, who lived between thirty four UM hundred 356 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: and thirty bc uh somewhere in that area, was found 357 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: with two varieties of fungia on his person, one of 358 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: which we've discussed on our other show or previous other show. 359 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: Invention was likely a dried fungi used to help start fires, 360 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: but the other was a birch fungus that was likely 361 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: consumed for medicinal reasons, and so that the consumption of 362 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: mushrooms for culinary and or medicinal purposes dates back in 363 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: a number of ancient cultures. They're they're more examples of 364 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: this than we could easily cover on the show here. Uh. 365 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: And with the agricultural revolution came the eventuality of mushroom 366 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: cultivation as well. Though, as we previously touched on, there 367 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: are so many varieties that are resistant to cultivation. Yeah. 368 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: I think specifically a lot of the ones that you 369 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: think of that are most commonly used in food that 370 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: are the hardest to cultivate, or are the ones that are, 371 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: for my corpsal reasons, unable to be cultivated because they 372 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: exist in these symbiotic relationships with other plants, trees, and 373 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: forest atmospheres. And so the truffle is a common example, 374 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: but of course Sean trells are like this as well. 375 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: I believe also porcini mushrooms, uh, that it's just really 376 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: hard to recreate the conditions in which they arise. Yeah. 377 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: So even as as humanity inevitably be you know, began 378 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: to shift uh this revolution in neolithic times, uh, shifting 379 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: away from the hunter gather existence to one dependent on 380 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: intensive agriculture, there's kind of this you know, this tendency 381 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: to sort of think of that as Okay, well, you know, 382 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: you're just changing the way you live entirely, you're just 383 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: stopping where you are and now you're gonna grow plants, 384 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: and maybe mushroom foraging is one of those things that 385 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: remains outside of that tradition for these very reasons we've 386 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: been discussing. Um. However, this was quite interesting. I was 387 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: looking around for resources on this and I ran across 388 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: a paper published in the Royal Society b by Curtis w. 389 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: Uh Marine titled the Transition to Foraging for Dense and 390 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: Predictable Resources and It's Impact on the Evolution of modern humans. 391 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: And in this uh the the author um is discussing, 392 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, this basic shift, but he points out, they 393 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: point out that there's another shift to consider. Quote the 394 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: foraging shift to dense and predictable resources is another key 395 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: milestone that had consequential impacts on the later part of 396 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: human evolution. Now, the basic idea here is that there 397 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: wasn't just this sudden shift from hunting and gathering to cultivation. 398 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: And there are many hypothesized explanations for this, but Marine 399 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: argues that hunting and gathering would have seen an increased 400 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: focus on dense and predictable resources. As such, this also 401 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: means that a given area becomes increasingly worth defending and 402 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: staking a claim to. Oh this is interesting. So this 403 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: could be the transition point between um between people who 404 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: just roam about following resources and consuming them wherever they 405 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: can be found. That and then on the other hand, 406 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: having far land in between. You could have places where 407 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: there are naturally high density resources that can be exploited 408 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: over and over that you might not be quite farming yet, 409 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: but might be worth defending as a stable territory. Yeah. Yeah, 410 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: And I have to admit I hadn't really thought about 411 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: this before. I without giving it a lot of thought. 412 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: I always just kind of, you know, had this this 413 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: inaccurate picture in my mind that was again like, okay, 414 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: we're not hundred gathers anymore, let's start growing this corn. 415 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: Why don't we? You know, like I don't. I didn't 416 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: really think about some of the potential, you know, for 417 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: for areas in between. This would be very interesting to explore. 418 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: Paired with something that came up in our Invention episodes 419 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: on Bread and Toast, where we talked about the studies 420 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: indicating that bread and may actually have been invented before 421 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: grain was was an agricultural product like people may have 422 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: been making and I think the archaeological evidence is that 423 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: people were making bread from wild grains and wild grasses 424 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: before they had farms and wheat. Yeah. Absolutely, It makes 425 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: me wonder if they were getting these grains from some 426 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: kind of like a location where there were a lot 427 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: of them growing together and could be exploited over and 428 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: over again. Yeah, exactly, Now marine rights to some all 429 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: this up quote. I hypothesize that the origin population for 430 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: modern humans made this shift to dense and predictable resources, 431 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: and thus was subject to high levels of territoriality and 432 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: intergroup conflict, which provided the selection regime for high levels 433 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: of cooperation with unrelated individuals within one's group. The downstream 434 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: effect was that all modern humans inherited these hyper pro 435 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: social provoclivities that are unique to our species. Now, to 436 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: bring this back to mushroom foraging, it is interesting to 437 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: process one's thoughts about the predictable times and places one 438 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: will find, say Chantrelle's or into the woods, and the 439 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: competitive feelings that they may force we may be forced 440 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: to confront during this. In fact, I understand that more 441 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: serious mushroom foragers are, you know, their loath to reveal 442 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: the secrets, uh, their secret places, their quote unquote honey spots, 443 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: the places where they can dependently find the best patches 444 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: of mushroom. Do you remember the story in Michael Pollen's 445 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: book where he's going hunting for psilocybin mushrooms with Paul Statements, 446 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: and he's going to great pains to try to tell 447 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: you what he's doing without revealing the site of Paul 448 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: statements mushroom psh Oh yeah, yeah, because Paul really doesn't 449 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: want people to know where he gets him that's his 450 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: honey spot. Now, I think though that, yeah, you can 451 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: certainly see that with plants, especially, how this could be 452 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: this intermediary zone between hunting and gathering and cultivation where 453 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: you realize, oh, well, the the wheat that we can 454 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: make into bread, it grows really well here. Uh, this 455 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: is a place that we need to keep secret or 456 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: even protect from other other individuals. This is our spot, 457 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: this is our sacred spot that we return to. It's 458 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: a very interesting possibility. I wonder what what would be 459 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: the evidence that you could find to back that up. 460 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I have to keep thinking about that. 461 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll 462 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: be right back. Thank and we're back. Now. Another interesting 463 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: topic to to consider in all of this is that 464 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: that there is essentially a foraging gene uh So the 465 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: key gene of note in most studies, especially with fruit 466 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: flies and fruit flies, it's p r KG one uh 467 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: and uh this is um this is something that we 468 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: see presented in a wide variety of animals, from fruit 469 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: flies to even humans. But p r KG one is 470 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: president fruit flies and has previously been shown to influence 471 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: foraging behaviors. Researchers and studies that I think date back 472 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: to at least night have looked at this, and multiple 473 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: researchers found that one variant of the gene and fruit 474 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: flies induces what is called sitter behavior and in the 475 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: other's rover behavior. Now, the difference here is that when 476 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: a sitter enters an area can taining fruit, the they 477 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: scalut the perimeter of the area and then they move inward. 478 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: They sort of you know, they scouted out, they make 479 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: a perimeter, and then they move in. Rovers instead move 480 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: right in and go for the first fruit they encounter. Interesting, Now, 481 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: the human form of The gene is apparently a nucleotide 482 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: polymorphism genotype called r S one, and in two thousand 483 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: and nineteen, researchers from Canada, the US, and the UK 484 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: this would be struck at all um. They experimented with 485 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: it in a paper published in the Proceedings of the 486 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: National Academy of Science. The title is self regulation and 487 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: the foraging gene p r KG one in humans UH. 488 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Here's how the study went down. So, the authors analyzed 489 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: the genotypes of rs and four thirty seven undergraduate students 490 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: who performed two virtual foraging tasks. So this was a 491 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: touch screen situation in which subjects search for and collected 492 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: as many red bear areas as possible within five minutes. 493 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: And then so they compared the subjects with C A 494 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: or CC genotypes of rs UH. Individuals with the A 495 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: A genotype were more likely to hug the boundary of 496 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: the search environment, pick smaller berries, and stop to pick 497 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: berries and patches with fewer visible berries a k A 498 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: sitter behavior. The findings suggests that the A A genotype 499 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: is associated with a search strategy that restricts exploration and 500 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: exploits the local environment extensively. In other words, distinct patterns 501 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: of goal pursuit for foraging are associated with particular genotypes 502 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: of pr k G one. That's very interesting. Now, as 503 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about on the show before, you always have 504 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: to remember when you're drawing correlations between particular gene variants 505 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: and a behavior, it's it's almost never going to be 506 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: like an on off switch that like, if you have 507 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: a certain gene variant, you show X behavior and if 508 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: you don't have it, you don't. But instead you you'd 509 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: be charting sort of like you know, percentages of influence. 510 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: Can can you see correlations between gene variants and a 511 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: and a tendency or a certain proclivity to a certain 512 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: type of behavior and uh and so yeah, this would 513 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: say that somehow foraging behaviors or downstream from things that 514 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: this gene does to the brain that make you more 515 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: likely to kind of like go out on a long 516 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: search of versus try to exploit all of the resources 517 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: you can in your nearest immediate environment. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, Now, 518 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: and of course we also have to keep in mind 519 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: that the scope in the size of the study here, 520 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: but um, and also I should point that the authors 521 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: mentioned that the human foraging behavior is ultimately far more 522 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: complex than the the foraging behavior fruit flies, and instead 523 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: they're just being two distinct foraging strategies. It seems like 524 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 1: they are three. So you have siderin rover, but then 525 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: you have a mixed uh disposition as well, the combines 526 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: elements of both. But on top of that, they point 527 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: out that this would go beyond mere foraging and humans, 528 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: that that it that it would instead impact human behavior 529 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: regulation across multiple domains. And I think we can imagine how, yeah, 530 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: that would involve various things that are like foraging, but 531 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: also potentially impact just sort of risk assessment, etcetera. Oh yeah, 532 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's easy to see how complex 533 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: modern behaviors are in a way kind of probably uh 534 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: minor reconfigurations of traditional instinctual behaviors like foraging, like hunting 535 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Uh, So you can see 536 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: how whatever we're most instinctually inclined to do in terms 537 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: of foraging could manifest in the way you accomplish work 538 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: around the house, in the way that you know, go 539 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: shopping or whatever. I mean again, you you have to 540 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: be careful about drawing too direct and inference about anything 541 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: like that, but the fact that there's some kind of influences. 542 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: Seems pretty clear. All right, we're going to take a 543 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll be right back. Thank and we're 544 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 1: back now. Another aspect of early human foraging tactics, and 545 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: indeed the way these these early humans use spatial abilities 546 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: to gather resources, is that there was seemingly a division 547 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: of labor between males and females. This is the sexual 548 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: division of labor, sometimes abbreviated as sdl UM. And this 549 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: is a subject that has received a lot of study 550 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: over the years, especially of studies that look at extant 551 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: hunter gatherer populations in the world. And there are varying 552 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: hypotheses for the evolutionary origins of this divide. Now, for 553 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: our purposes here, I was looking at a study by 554 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: Louis Pacheco, Cobas, Marcos Rosetti, Cecilia Quanti Emquoees, and Robin 555 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: Hudson titled sex differences in mushroom gathering Men expend more 556 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: energy to obtain equivalent benefits and this was published in 557 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: Evolution and Human Behavior back in so the authors here 558 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: pointed out that the evidence was accumulating quote that women 559 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: excel on tasks appropriate it to gathering immobile plant resources 560 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: while men excel on task appropriate to hunting mobile, unpredictable prey. 561 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: And this would be due So the thinking goes to 562 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: this ancient labor divide in human societies. But it also 563 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: means that intrinsic foraging abilities and tactics would differ from 564 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: males to females. So the researchers here decided to put 565 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: this to the test with a mushroom foraging experiment, which 566 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: is the other key reason to discuss it here, because 567 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: people are are This is an experiment that includes not 568 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: touch screen um practices, not some sort of touch screen experiment, 569 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: but an actual foraging for mushrooms, let's forage. So in 570 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: their study they use GPS and heart rate monitors that 571 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: had been affixed to the researchers themselves, and then these 572 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: researchers would follow twenty one pairs of men and women 573 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: from an indigenous Mexican community in uh Tlex Cola while 574 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 1: foraging for mushrooms in the wild. So the researchers are 575 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: the ones where in the gear they're following the actual foragers, 576 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: but in doing so, they're going to be able to 577 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: chart where the foragers went and how much energy seems 578 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: to be expended in the silent hunt, so they ultimately 579 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: measured the costs, the benefits, and the general search efficiency 580 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: of everyone's movements, and then they analyzed them. The resulting 581 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: foraging patterns showed that while males and females collected similar 582 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: quantities of mushrooms, males achieved this at a significantly higher cost. 583 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: So the males they traveled farther. The males climbed to 584 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: greater altitudes. They had higher mean heart rates and energy 585 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: expenditures while partaking in the foraging, and in addition, they 586 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: also collected fewer mushroom species and visited fewer collection sites. 587 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: And this is interesting. They seemed to focus on large 588 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: patches of mushrooms, even if these were harder to come by, 589 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: so they were like bypassing or not even looking for 590 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: those smaller patches they wanted wanted to get the big 591 00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: game mushroom patches. The females, meanwhile, it seemed to know 592 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: where to go and they foraged of from many small 593 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: patches as opposed to seeking out those greater patches of 594 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: fun guy. This was also compared by the way to 595 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: previous research on the way males and females navigate, which 596 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: indicated that males tend to create mental maps and then 597 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: superimpose their position, while women tend to remember landmarks and 598 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: memorize the routes quote. These findings are consistent with arguments 599 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: in the literature that differences in spatial ability between the 600 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 1: sexes are domain dependent, with women performing better and more 601 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: readily adopting search strategies appropriate to a gathering lifestyle than men. 602 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: So basically, the idea is that if you were primarily 603 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 1: charged with hunting prey two point five million years ago, 604 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: it made sense to travel far, to take widening paths 605 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: in pursuit of that big payoff prey, and then take 606 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: the shortest, most direct path back home so as to 607 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: make for up for all that time you spent wandering 608 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: and pursuing the prey. Meanwhile, if you were tasked with 609 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: gathering fungi or plants, it would serve to remember where 610 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: the most productive plant food sources were found, you know, 611 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: those honey spots, and then retrace your steps exactly so 612 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: as to take advantage of them in the future. And like, no, 613 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: making a bee line back for camp. That's very interesting. Uh. Now, 614 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: one thing that we always got to say whenever you 615 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: talk about studies that explore sex differences, is that people 616 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people like to take these and really 617 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: run with them and say like, oh, this means that 618 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: men are like this and women are like that. I 619 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: think we always try to caution people not to not 620 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: to over interpret findings of sex differences in in particular studies. 621 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: It's very easy, I think, just because people want to 622 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: have strong intuitions about gender and sex and like what 623 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: men are like and what women are like and stuff 624 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: that they want to say like, oh, this explains why 625 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: my husband does this or why my girlfriend says that 626 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing. You can you can easily go way 627 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: overboard with with looking for explanations in that way. Yeah. 628 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: I mean it also it comes down to what is 629 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: the Barnum effect that we've discussed before, where we say, oh, well, 630 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: that's me, this this study is correct because that's me. 631 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: I totally am like that when I go to the 632 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: to the grocery store and my my partner is like this, etcetera. 633 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: But but yeah, like you're saying, like, we're talking about 634 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: general perceived trends in the sexual division of labor and 635 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: as reflected here in particular studies. Uh so, yeah, I 636 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: don't don't have it printed on a T shirt or anything, 637 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: but but it is interesting research and and certainly it 638 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: was neat to find a study that was that was 639 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: actually involving mushroom foraging, like the scientific study of mushroom 640 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: foraging behavior totally, and it highlights how there can be 641 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: different types of foraging strategies that are effective in different ways. 642 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: I was looking at some other studies that were about 643 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: different types of foraging strategies and birds, you know, and 644 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: how this is kind of interesting, like some birds tend 645 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: to forage by moving in little random types of motions 646 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: around a central locust, uh in a way that's very 647 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: comparable actually to the movement of tiny particles on the 648 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: atomic scale that's known as Brownie in motion and physics. 649 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: Whereas other birds tended to forage by sort of taking 650 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: large leaps at a time. And that these, uh, these 651 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: different strategies could be differentially effective depending on what types 652 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: of things you're looking for while foraging, what the surrounding 653 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: landscape is, and things like that. Yeah, it's such a 654 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: foraging itself is just such a fascinating thing to think 655 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: about because it's easy to just sort of dismiss it 656 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: as this kind of primal thing that we sometimes engage 657 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: in when we decided to go into the woods and 658 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: look for mushrooms, etcetera. But it is again something basic 659 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: like neural activity that we're continually engaging in and and 660 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: something that also comes down to this kind of like 661 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: like this the basic mathematics of it, like how do 662 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: you go about looking for resources in a given area? 663 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: And then how are you how do you deal with 664 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: spatial awareness in that given area? Like there it seems 665 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: like a rich domain for you know, AI research in 666 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: the like totally because strangely enough, I feel like search 667 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: activities are one of the ways in which human behavior 668 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: can be most closely compared to what computer programs do. 669 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, that there are some pretty 670 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: direct analogies actually having to do with energy is expended 671 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: and efficiency in different ways of searching through randomly organized material. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 672 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean in the same way that you can imagine 673 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: someone in desiring an AI program that will find you 674 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: a good deal on something. There are also plenty of 675 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: humans out there like that's their thing, like let me, 676 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: let me help you find a good deal on that. 677 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: Because I love looking for him, So, yeah, I mean 678 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: a lot of it does come back to foraging. I 679 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: mean I would be interested in studies looking at foraging 680 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 1: behaviors in humans and animals compared to what search engines 681 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: do to get you your results. That would be interesting. 682 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: So who knows, perhaps will have some additional foraging episodes 683 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: in the future, as as you and I go out 684 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 1: into the wilds seeking out fruitful papers on these topics. 685 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: Bring it on home, all right, We're gonna have to 686 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: call it there. Uh. Likewise, we weren't able to touch 687 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: on everything regarding mushroom foraging and foraging related topics here, 688 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: but we certainly would love to hear from everyone out there. Um, 689 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, are you involved in in mushroom foraging? Are 690 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: you an active forager? Or let us know your experiences. 691 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your insight on all of this. Likewise, 692 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: if you were, if your culture of origin, or you're 693 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, if you're immersed in a particular cultural uh 694 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: take on mushroom foraging, be it you know, the activities 695 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: or or beliefs and strategies tied up with the foraging 696 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: uh activity, let us know. We'd love to be enlightened 697 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: on those topics, huge things. As always to our excellent 698 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to 699 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 700 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: or any other, suggest a topic for the future, or 701 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us at contact 702 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: at Stuff to Blow Your Mind. Stuff to Blow Your 703 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 704 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 705 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listening to your favorite shows.