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Speaker 1: Hi, sweet, How are you okay?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about all that you do. You're

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Speaker 1: a mother, a professional, m D, a friend, and for

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Speaker 1: all of that, I just wanted to say to you, bravo.

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Speaker 1: You know what that's doing to me? Right, I'm just

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Speaker 1: trying to say bravo. Do you remember who once said

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Speaker 1: bravo to you and you didn't like it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some girl at a party.

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Speaker 1: It really upset you. You don't like to be bravo.

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Speaker 1: I don't like attention, but don't you feel you're a

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Speaker 1: person who deserves attention?

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Speaker 3: It just makes me tense.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'd like to shine a spotlight onto you.

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Speaker 3: But if I don't like attention, why do you then

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Speaker 3: say a spotlight?

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Speaker 1: A spotlight doesn't A red hot spotlight does not necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean attention. It's just a spotlight from Gimblet Media. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode Isabelle. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, an old fashioned rectangular suitcase was found

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Speaker 1: on a Brooklyn street corner by a man named Ed.

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Speaker 1: For fifteen years, Ed kept the suitcase stowed away in

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Speaker 1: a storage locker in his basement when he accepted a

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Speaker 1: job overseas he carried it over to his neighbor, a

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Speaker 1: woman named Kendra. Kendra pushed the suitcase under an armchair,

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Speaker 1: and that's where it's been sitting ever since, collecting dust

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Speaker 1: until today. Kendra lives in a small apartment building on

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Speaker 1: a residential street, shoes off either way. She takes me

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Speaker 1: into her living room and pulls the suitcase out from

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Speaker 1: under an armchair. It's battered and old, like something you'd

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Speaker 1: see in a black and white documentary, clutched in the

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Speaker 1: hand of a door to door salesman drifting from town

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Speaker 1: to town.

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Speaker 2: Scott like sneeps.

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Speaker 1: She opens up the suitcase and there they are the letters,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of them, charting from beginning to end, the relationship

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Speaker 1: between a young man named Brad and a young woman

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Speaker 1: named Isabelle. This is a lot the letters were written

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Speaker 1: over the five years they dated. The relationship was almost

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Speaker 1: entirely long distance. Isabelle was from Venezuela and Brad was

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Speaker 1: from North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: He I know went to art school, because a number

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Speaker 4: of letters are addressed to him there.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh.

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Speaker 4: She I don't know where she went to school, but

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Speaker 4: she clearly is also an artist. I mean, look at this,

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Speaker 4: like wow.

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Speaker 1: Kendra pulls out three photos attached by spiderwebs of white thread.

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Speaker 1: Each photo shows Isabelle, tussled hair and heavy eyeliner, folding

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Speaker 1: an old brownie camera. During those ignorant days, the only

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Speaker 1: way to create a selfie or self portrait, as historians

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Speaker 1: tell us they were called, was to pose with a

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Speaker 1: camera in front of a mirror, like an animal.

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Speaker 4: They're really really cute.

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Speaker 1: In another photo, Isabelle and Brad sit on the beach

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Speaker 1: in sunglasses and formal wear. The photo looks like a

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Speaker 1: still from a black and white film by John Luke Dard.

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Speaker 1: They're in their teens early twenties. They are young and beautiful.

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Speaker 4: This is a menu.

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Speaker 1: Among the letters and photos are dozens of keepsakes, ticket stubs,

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Speaker 1: and coins from foreign countries.

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Speaker 4: Well this one has a leaf in it.

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Speaker 1: Oh well look at that. Open that up. Each letter

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Speaker 1: is a mini handmade art project. Even the envelopes are

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Speaker 1: carefully decorated. On one, just under Brad's name, Isabell's drawn

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Speaker 1: a row of fish swimming by. The letters were written

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Speaker 1: by Isabelle and sent to Brad, who filed away each

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Speaker 1: one in his suitcase. The story of their relationship told

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Speaker 1: through Isabelle's letters is like a diary where half the

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Speaker 1: pages are missing. Kendra pulls out a letter at random.

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Speaker 4: This is from Christmas Eve nineteen ninety and she says, Brad,

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Speaker 4: today I got the best Christmas present ever. I'm talking

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Speaker 4: about your letter and picture. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 4: telling me your true feelings. Ooh, this is like a

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Speaker 4: really personal one. You should not be afraid that I

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Speaker 4: won't be there for you when you might need me.

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Speaker 4: I want to be there. You are my boyfriend and friend. Also,

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Speaker 4: to me, you're more important than any other friend I have.

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Speaker 4: I guess that with time, our trust toward each other

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Speaker 4: will grow, just as each day I feel I know

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Speaker 4: you a little bit more. Believe me. I'm also scared

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Speaker 4: of getting hurt. I figured that if I'm scared that

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Speaker 4: you might hurt me, and you're scared that I might

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Speaker 4: hurt you, then it must mean that we both know

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Speaker 4: we don't want to hurt the other person. No, the

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Speaker 4: last thing I would want to do is to hurt

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Speaker 4: you or even see you hurt. It's so romantic, it's

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Speaker 4: just so.

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Speaker 2: It's so vulnerable.

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Speaker 4: They both were so afraid of getting hurt, and I

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Speaker 4: mean that's how people always go into relationships, you know,

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Speaker 4: and then probably at least one of them did get

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Speaker 4: hurt in the end.

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Speaker 1: Kendra happens to be going into a relationship right now.

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Speaker 1: She's about to move in with her boyfriend. This is

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Speaker 1: why she's called me here today. Starting a new relationship

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Speaker 1: with a suitcase containing a dead relationship feels inauspicious, so

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Speaker 1: she can't keep it, but at the same time, she

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to throw the lets away. So you've gone

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Speaker 1: through all of these Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't read Spanish, and a lot is in Spanish,

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Speaker 4: so I haven't read the ones in Spanish.

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Speaker 1: But it sounds like you've you've created like little stories

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Speaker 1: about what it what, what their relationship could it possibly

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Speaker 1: have been?

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Speaker 4: I mean it's kind of irresistible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to do that, and what what's your take? Like,

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Speaker 1: you think that it ended up on the sidewalk and

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Speaker 1: found by your friend because it was disposed of.

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Speaker 4: I think it was disposed of. Yeah, my gut is

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Speaker 4: that he got rid of it, possibly because he was

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Speaker 4: in another relationship and New York apartments don't have room

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Speaker 4: for a lot of I don't want to say secrets.

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Speaker 4: I don't think this was a secret, but a lot

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Speaker 4: of past stuff. We should find her and we should

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Speaker 4: get it to her, because it's an amazing time capsule

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Speaker 4: of who she was at this time, and it would

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Speaker 4: like reopen this part of herself that she maybe forgot about.

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Speaker 4: I mean, imagine if somebody contacted you out of the

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Speaker 4: blue and they were like, hey, guess what, I have

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Speaker 4: a bunch of art and photos and stuff that you

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Speaker 4: made and that was about you from the time that

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Speaker 4: you were I don't know whatever, like sixteen to twenty

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Speaker 4: two or whatever it is. I mean, wouldn't you want

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Speaker 4: that back?

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Speaker 1: Of course I would, especially if it were something so irreplaceable.

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Speaker 1: None of us will probably ever again have a collection

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Speaker 1: of one hundred handwritten letters mailed to us with photographs

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Speaker 1: developed by an enlarger in a dark room. One day,

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Speaker 1: when drones capture our every moment, when each of our pensis,

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Speaker 1: written or perhaps unwritten, is housed in an ever expanding cloud,

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Speaker 1: there may not be a need for such suitcases at all.

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna take this off

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Speaker 1: your hands, and I'm gonna do you sound sad?

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Speaker 4: I am sad now that it's like, really the moment

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Speaker 4: to say goodbye.

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Speaker 2: Take good care of it.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for going.

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Speaker 1: We say our goodbyes, and Kendra walks me, suitcase in hand,

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Speaker 1: to the front door of her apartment. This one up here,

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Speaker 1: my marching orders had been handed to me.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, it's just the top one.

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Speaker 1: I was determined to find Isabelle.

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Speaker 2: I think you lots the.

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Speaker 1: Bottom, and I would work tirelessly until I did.

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Speaker 4: Can you want me to No?

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Speaker 1: I got it. Actually, although New York apartments might not

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Speaker 1: have a lot of room for past stuff, they certainly

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Speaker 1: make up for it with an abundance of locks. Yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should. Okay, sorry, but as soon as I

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Speaker 1: could get out, I'd set off in search of Isabelle.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, you should probably figure that out. It's probably

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Speaker 1: like a fire hazard if you. Oh, okay, okay, great

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Speaker 1: after the break life outside this facacta apartment.

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Speaker 5: Okay, take care, bye, bye bye. You'll say get guero

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Speaker 5: so s tode lo case las muchachas. No, this isn't

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Speaker 5: Latin lover Antonio banderis, but Latin lover because he loves Latin.

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Speaker 5: Jonathan Goldstein. Since most of the letters between Brad and

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Speaker 5: Isabel are in Spanish and my own Spanish is like that,

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Speaker 5: of a nineteen fifties Canadian housewife wandering ta one in

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Speaker 5: a novelty sized sombrero. I need a translator, someone to

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Speaker 5: help me understand the letters and get them back to Isabelle.

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Speaker 5: And so I enlisted Gimblet Media editor, or hey, just

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Speaker 5: are you ready for this? Jorge and I are always

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Speaker 5: getting up to what CEO and Gimblet Media founder Alex

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg calls shenanigans, doing stuff like Jorge hiding my chair

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Speaker 5: each morning, or Jorge stealing my laptop while I'm in

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Speaker 5: the bathroom and liking a whole bunch of nickelback fan pages.

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Speaker 5: Alex discourages quote fraternizing on company time unless there's a

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Speaker 5: valid business reason. Well, Alex does returning a suitcase full

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Speaker 5: of personal history to its rightful owners strike you as

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Speaker 5: a valid business reason. Only God can judge me, Alex,

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Speaker 5: so stand back and let my father do his job

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Speaker 5: and let Jorge and me do hours.

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Speaker 1: Gordeau are is Gordou means something in Spanish.

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Speaker 2: Means fat fat. But it might be a nickname like

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Speaker 2: a you know.

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Speaker 1: Like my little fat one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's a term of endearment.

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Speaker 1: Jorge and I spend the afternoon, snacking on honeydew slices

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Speaker 1: and sifting through honeydew juice soap letters. We try to

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Speaker 1: construct a timeline that will lead us from the relationships

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Speaker 1: beginning to the discarded suitcase on the street.

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Speaker 2: So this is September twenty ninth, nineteen ninety three, third

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Speaker 2: of March nineteen ninety two, eighteenth, nineteen ninety four, August ninth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 1: The correspondence begins in December of nineteen ninety when Brad

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Speaker 1: and Isabelle first met on Christmas vacation in Florida. In

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Speaker 1: these early letters, Isabelle offers up little Spanish lessons, teaching

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Speaker 1: Brad basic vocabulary and grammar.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to show you the future tents to caminas

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Speaker 2: do usmana you walk, You're going to walk.

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Speaker 1: It perhaps speaks through the intensity of his feelings. But

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Speaker 1: before very long at all, Brad's language is good enough

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Speaker 1: for her to switch over to Spanish.

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Speaker 2: Completely olaos mar Cambo, Skvoa and de lunez.

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Speaker 1: Isabelle travels a lot, so her letters come from all over.

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Speaker 1: Each one is composed of precise capital letters and arrives

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Speaker 1: in an envelope that Brad meticulously slits, always along the width,

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Speaker 1: careful not to tear the drawings. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: letters are mundane stuff you'd share across a dinner table

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Speaker 1: or through rapid texts.

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Speaker 2: Stucks. My ears started to hurt and I went back

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Speaker 2: to the apartment. I don't like it when my ears hurt.

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Speaker 1: But for Isabelle and Brad, this kind of chit chat

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Speaker 1: was a slow process. Between each message was a weight

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Speaker 1: that lasted days. Brad would wait to hear if Isabel's

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Speaker 1: family had begun to soften to the idea of her

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Speaker 1: attending art school, and Isabelle would wait to hear if

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Speaker 1: Brad had saved up enough money to fix the brakes

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Speaker 1: on his car, whether he finally bought that photo and

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Speaker 1: larger he had his eye on.

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Speaker 2: I'm really happy that you bought the enlarger. I know

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Speaker 2: that that's a great thing and that you really wanted it. Truly,

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Speaker 2: it makes me really happy.

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Speaker 1: Brad would wait to hear about what Isabelle's plans were

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Speaker 1: for the.

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Speaker 2: Night velcro jumping. Tonight, we're going out to a disco

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Speaker 2: where there'll be velcro jumping. This really is truly nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety two.

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Speaker 1: He'd wait to hear about her trip to Boston.

222
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Speaker 2: I'm really happy. I really really like Boston, and I

223
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Speaker 2: think that you'd like it too. When I went to

224
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Speaker 2: the Art Museum, I wanted to have you with me.

225
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 2: We'd be enjoying each other so much. Well, someday we

226
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:39,719
Speaker 2: will right.

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00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 1: The letter is stamped March of nineteen ninety two. If

228
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,959
Speaker 1: Brad had been at the museum, the two young photographers

229
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 1: might have seen the work of another young photographer, Ansel Adams,

230
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: whose early photographs were on exhibit at the time. Many

231
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 1: of his early photos weren't of the barren landscapes that

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Speaker 1: made him famous, but if people smoking, talking, dancing. The

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00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,560
Speaker 1: photos in the suitcase are also portraits that Brad and

234
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 1: isabel took of themselves and each other.

235
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:15,560
Speaker 6: Oh wow, they're so young, yeah, Brad and Isabelle at

236
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 6: a wedding, Brad and isabel at a hike, sitting by

237
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Speaker 6: a lake, holding onto each other.

238
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 2: In every single one, they're looking at the camera and not.

239
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 1: Smiling because they're cool art students.

240
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 2: That is definitely seemed that way.

241
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 1: And when they weren't together, they were making plans, always

242
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 1: looking forward to the things they do when they next

243
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 1: meet like watching the tenth anniversary of the David Letterman Show.

244
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, gorddo, when you fix your VCR, we can rent

245
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 2: it and watch it together.

246
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,040
Speaker 1: O Gordeau had a broken VCR.

247
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,120
Speaker 2: That's so nice though.

248
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Isabelle says that you'd already watched the episode, but

249
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 1: wanted to watch it with Brad. Watch Brad as he

250
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,600
Speaker 1: watched Letterman rowe watermelons off a roof and herd sheep

251
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 1: into a cab headed to LaGuardia Airport. And then there

252
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 1: are the love letters, and the love that Isabelle expresses

253
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 1: has the feeling of a kid in love for the

254
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,040
Speaker 1: very first time.

255
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 2: And when I thought that I couldn't love you anymore,

256
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 2: every day I love you more. I'm so happy to

257
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 2: know that we're together. Sometimes I wish I could just

258
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 2: put time on pause so that everything could get fixed,

259
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 2: and when I was ready to breastplay, we could just

260
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,600
Speaker 2: continue happy and together.

261
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 1: Throughout these letters that span five birthdays. That looks like

262
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 1: a birthday one. This is a birthday one for five Christmases,

263
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: five summers and winters.

264
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 2: It started to snow last night and it's still going that.

265
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: Span years and countries. There's always this vague hope that

266
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 1: one day they'd be together, really together, in the same city,

267
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 1: the same home, for good. But in the end Isabelle

268
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 1: remained in Venezuela, except Venezuela no longer felt like home.

269
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: She was aimless, knowing she should get a job, but

270
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: not knowing what she wanted to do.

271
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 2: March fourteenth, nineteen ninety four, and it's a fax.

272
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: She ended up taking a job at her brother's office,

273
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 1: which had a fax machine.

274
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 2: No se parami vida. I feel totally lost. I have

275
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 2: no idea what I want for myself or for my life.

276
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 1: As unsure as she was, there remained one thing she

277
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 1: always seemed sure of her and Brad, because at no

278
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 1: point is there ever any sense that a suitcase full

279
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,880
Speaker 1: of her letters would one day end up abandoned. Orge

280
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: felt the same way.

281
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 2: The more I read, the more surprised I am that

282
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 2: these letters aren't you know, somewhere with Brad, that they're

283
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 2: not in the basement that they owned together.

284
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 1: We searched the suitcase looking for the last letter ever written.

285
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 1: The postmarks and addresses are many and keep changing. Florida, Savannah, Boston,

286
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 1: and finally Venezuela. That's the very last letter. The last

287
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 1: letter was sent by Isabelle in March of nineteen ninety five,

288
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: almost five years after they first met.

289
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 2: She says, Lodluya, No York, Mikhayokomo, shock se Emperor prefeti Boston,

290
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: Solo pros solo.

291
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 1: The address it's mail to is in New York. It

292
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 1: seems brad it just moved there to start grad school

293
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 1: in photography.

294
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 2: She's saying, she's really sad. She was shocked that he

295
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 2: decided to move to New York, oh really, and that

296
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 2: that she knew that he had been thinking about moving,

297
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 2: but that she never thought that he would move to

298
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 2: New York. And then she says that she talked to

299
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,120
Speaker 2: her mom, and her mom helped her, helped her think

300
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 2: through it and understand that it was a good decision

301
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 2: for his career and that that's why he was doing it.

302
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 2: And that's why she says, it's true. You know, it's

303
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 2: the center of photography. And she says, God, you're very

304
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 2: good at photography. I'm sure you. When you get your

305
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: portfolio together, you'll find everything that you want. One thing

306
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 2: that I noticed is that there everybody in New York

307
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,800
Speaker 2: has an air of confidence, of believing that they're the best.

308
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 2: And if I saw that, then you don't have to worry,

309
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 2: because you too are good. You're better than all of them.

310
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 2: I'm sure that it will go well for you. You

311
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 2: told me that you're not going to have a telephone

312
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: in New York. You know, I want to hear from you.

313
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,399
Speaker 2: I need to know how you're doing. I miss you

314
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,159
Speaker 2: when you move. I'd love to have your address. Please

315
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 2: call me and tell me what it is. I promise

316
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: you that we'll we'll talk only you know, as little

317
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,479
Speaker 2: as possible, only what's necessary. I imagine the last thing

318
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 2: you need are big fat telephone bills.

319
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 1: Sounds like he chose his photography over their relationship.

320
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

321
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 1: And this is the last letter because he never maybe

322
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 1: he never sent her his address.

323
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 2: And the way that she signs it off is you

324
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,479
Speaker 2: sa ps, try to write when you have time.

325
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: Oh am, I just getting like really sentimental or is

326
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 1: this like sad?

327
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 2: It's sad. Yeah.

328
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: Kendra's friend found the suitcase in nineteen ninety nine, which

329
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 1: means after that last letter, Brad continued to hold onto

330
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: the suitcase in his small New York apartment for four

331
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: more years. Isabelle had a very common name and no

332
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 1: presence on the Internet. So I began looking for Brad.

333
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: Since all the letters were from Isabelle's pen, I'd only

334
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: gotten to know him through her as a young man

335
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: with a letter of and are in a broken VCR

336
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: determined to become a photographer, someone who could hardly afford

337
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 1: breaks for his car, but was still going all in

338
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: on a new photo and larger and it looked like

339
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 1: his determination paid off. Brad is now an architectural photographer,

340
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: still living in New York. His photographs are no longer portraits,

341
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: but sparse empty interiors, a school without children, a hotel

342
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 1: without guests. I dialed the number on his website and

343
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 1: explained that a suitcase was found on a Brooklyn street

344
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: corner and passed on to a woman named Kendra, who

345
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 1: passed it on to me. Anyway, long story short, it's

346
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: a suitcase that has all of these letters. Does that

347
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 1: ring any bells?

348
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 3: Yes?

349
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: What happened? Like? How did this suitcase end up where

350
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: it was found on the street?

351
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: I let it go?

352
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: You mean you you you you? You threw it out?

353
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 3: Yes?

354
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: That that makes me surprised because the letters from Isabelle

355
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: sound and feel really very affectionate. You know, well, there

356
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: there was love.

357
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 3: Something happened. I don't know what. I asked her to

358
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 3: marry me, gave her a ring. She wasn't living in

359
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: the country. I wanted her to come move to New York.

360
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 3: Uh huh, and she broke it off. Within a year

361
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: of her breaking up with me, she got married. So

362
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 3: there's not much to do after that. It's done.

363
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:16,959
Speaker 1: I guess the impression that I had was that maybe

364
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: you had broken up with her.

365
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 3: No, certainly not.

366
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: What was she trying to preserve some kind of friendship

367
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: or something or remain in touch.

368
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 3: That would be likely. Yeah, yeah, And I what's what's

369
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 3: the point of that? Once you've gone to that place

370
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 3: with someone, you can't you can't take it back a notch.

371
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's all or nothing. And she chose nothing.

372
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: She chose nothing, she chose.

373
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: Not married to me. That's that's how that seems to me.

374
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 3: There's nothing that I would do differently at this point.

375
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 3: It's this is I have a different life now. You know,

376
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: I have an incredible wife who has worked with me

377
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 3: and and we have I just feel like we've been

378
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 3: through so much and you know, it's it's a. It's

379
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: not the the path that I initially thought that I

380
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: would be on. I was convinced that that that it

381
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: would have been with Isabelle. But but at this point,

382
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: I am happy to be here, happy to be where

383
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 3: I am.

384
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, where are you?

385
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Where are you? Are you in a car right now?

386
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? I am?

387
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: Are you heading home?

388
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 5: Now?

389
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to pick up my daughter from school?

390
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I mean, it seemed like Isabelle. It

391
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: seems like maybe the right thing to do would be

392
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: to get them back to her. Do you know where

393
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: she lives?

394
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: She lives in Italy.

395
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: Knowing that Isabelle's in Italy helped. After some searching around,

396
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: I found her on Facebook. In her black and white

397
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: profile picture, she's hold an old fashioned camera to her face,

398
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: a self portrait in front of a mirror, just like

399
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: the kind she'd take when she was a teenager. In

400
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: the photo, the eye that is not looking into the

401
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: viewfinder is opened wide. We'd assume that both eyes are

402
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: opened wide. I send Isabelle a message telling her who

403
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: I am, what I found, and how I want to

404
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: give it back to her, and then I wait. The

405
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: first day of my weight is spent imagining all the

406
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: praise and gratitude that awaits me.

407
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 2: Thank God for men like you. I never imagined there

408
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: were gentlemen as generous as you. If you hand deliver

409
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: the suitcase, I'll read you each letter after a picnic

410
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: lunch of Italian delicacies and my father's vin grass You've

411
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: not truly ever tasted salami, Goldstein grassias until you've eaten

412
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: it under a Tuscan sun.

413
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: The second day is spent indulging more of these lunatical

414
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: imaginings and binge watching Mash in triumph. But by the

415
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: third day, still not having heard back from Isabelle, I

416
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: take to my bed for more Mash, though now binge

417
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: watched in defeat. Why wasn't she getting back to me?

418
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: And then, after a week and a half, I receive

419
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: a message, Hello, Jonathan, Isabelle writes, the letters are a

420
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: part of my history, and in history they stay. I

421
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: do not want to explain anything, neither do I want

422
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: the letters. Hope you understand. Life goes on. I have

423
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: a life, wishing you all the best, Isabelle. Isabelle also

424
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: tells me how she now has a family of her own.

425
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,959
Speaker 1: She has a life. Brad has a life, Kendra has

426
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: a new life with a new relationship. Evidently, everyone has

427
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: a life except for one person who stuck with an

428
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: old suit case full of letters written in a language

429
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't even understand Hoblando, of which how fluent was

430
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: Isabel's English? Anyway? Was something getting lost in the translation?

431
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: I write her back, explaining that I don't want anything

432
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: from her. I don't even need to understand what happened

433
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: between her and Brad. That really all I want is

434
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: to give her back her letters. The next day, Isabel

435
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: writes back Jonathan. She writes, I appreciate all the trouble

436
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: you've gone through to get a hold of me. I

437
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 1: have beautiful memories, but people grow and change. I am

438
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: no longer the person who wrote those letters, Isabel. While

439
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: all the peripheral characters, the Kendras, the Jorgees, the Jonathans,

440
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: feel so invested in these letters that neither belong to

441
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: nor concern them, both Isabel and Brad are not. They

442
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: have a similar way of being in the world, and

443
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: you can understand how they might have been drawn to

444
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: one another. They both seem to get it, get something,

445
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: something that, for the life of me, I don't understand

446
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: at all, Isabelle, I write. For me, the most interesting

447
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: thing about revisiting the past and the person I was

448
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: isn't even finding out the ways in which I've changed,

449
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: but rather finding the ways in which I'm still the

450
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: same person. Discovering that common thread, that thing that holds

451
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: our lives together, gives our lives continuity and meaning. Maybe

452
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm talking about a person's soul. I'd come to know

453
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: Isabelle through her letters, and it feels fitting that I'm

454
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: still getting to know her through her letters. And in

455
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: spite of all the technological advances of the intervening years,

456
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm still left sitting around waiting. Isabelle writes back, I

457
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: take from the past the lesson it offers me and

458
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: move on. That's the only thing that matters. That we

459
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: learn something from every situation lived, good or bad. So

460
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: to me, she writes, life is one lesson after another,

461
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: which makes our soul grow and change. I personally do

462
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: not have one letter from anyone in my past, and

463
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I had a bad past. It means

464
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: that I've learned and moved on. I stop reading not

465
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: one letter from her past. I'm the kind of person

466
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: who saves post it notes stuck to his computer screen

467
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: by colleagues in the nineties, someone who never once erased

468
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: the contact from his phone. Since you are antithetical to

469
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: my way of being, Isabelle writes, I also leave you

470
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: the challenge of discarding that bunch of letters. I am

471
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: counting on you to do that. Who knows, maybe doing

472
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: it will help you in some aspects of your own life.

473
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: Just remember, the future is built as we move forward.

474
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: Take care, Jonathan, and as always, the best to you, Isabelle.

475
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: After his death in nineteen twenty four, Franz Kafka left

476
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: behind a will instructing his friend Max Brod to burn

477
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: all of his remaining writings, the unfinished novels, the journals,

478
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: the letters. In nineteen thirty nine, just before the Nazis

479
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: invaded Prague, broad clutching a suitcase containing all the papers

480
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: that could fit, boarded a train and set out for Palestine,

481
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: and with that some of the most important writing in

482
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: the twentieth century was saved. Max Brod's reasoning was that

483
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: if Kafka had really wanted his stuff destroyed, he never

484
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: would have asked Brod to do it. He had to

485
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: have known that Brod was the last person who destroy

486
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: work that he loved so much. Isabelle is not Kafka,

487
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: and I, though I do admire is self justifying prevaricating style,

488
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: am not max Broad. Yet after that final exchange, I

489
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: unscrew a bottle of bourbon, turn on mash and struggle

490
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: over Isabel's challenge. It felt like a paradox. On one hand,

491
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: these letters don't mean anything to me, but on the

492
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: other hand, discarding them just feels wrong. Throughout your life,

493
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: if it's a good long life, you let go, and

494
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: you let go of your ambitions, your hair, the people

495
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: you love most, and then one day, after a lifetime

496
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: of saying goodbye to the most important things, you suddenly

497
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: find yourself unable to unclutch your hand from the handle

498
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: of a suitcase that isn't even yours. And for close

499
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: to thirty years, it seems no one who carried this

500
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: suitcase could easily let go, not ed, not Kendra, even Brad,

501
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: the most motivated, could only pack the suitcase, exit the

502
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: front door, and make it only so far as the curb.

503
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: And why why can't any of us destroy the letters?

504
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Is it because we believe in stories about love, the

505
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: beauty of youth, the idea that somehow, contained within this

506
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: little suitcase, a relationship still exists, one that's a stand

507
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: in for a relationship that we've all had and lost.

508
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to giving Isabelle back these memories,

509
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: but Isabelle doesn't want my unsolicited gift. Instead, she's offering

510
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: a gift to me, permission to do the thing I

511
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: normally cannot do, to simply let go of the past.

512
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: Being unable to let go of the past feel small

513
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: somehow and marks you as petty, the kind of person

514
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: who holds onto grudges and painful memories. But in that

515
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: net of memory, beautiful things get trapped too, moments and

516
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: emotions that once moved you, or a version of you,

517
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: a first love, a great meal, or that one fall

518
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: evening when you pick up an innocuous looking suitcase that

519
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: had been sitting under your desk for months and leave

520
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: your office early with a Spanish speaking friend.

521
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: We want to make sure it's also and.

522
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: Head out into the dark street, looking for the perfect

523
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Street corner on which to let it go.

524
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: There, how about under that street that.

525
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: Okay, hang on, I'll I'll be right back. Part of

526
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: you hopes that someone else someone like you will find

527
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: it and treasure it at least for a little while,

528
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: all right, And then you run to catch up with

529
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: your Spanish speaking friend who was already half a block away,

530
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: prattling gleefully about something you barely understand, and that more

531
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: than likely neither of you will remember.

532
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: You want to grab a beer? Yeah?

533
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: You know a place around here?

534
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think there's a place on the corner.

535
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: Is it that place that you told me that only

536
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: takes bitcoins?

537
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: Of lying about that day, I asked you. Now that

538
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: the fernures returned into it's.

539
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 6: Goodwill hall, now that the last month's rent is skiming with.

540
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: The damage to pozzle, take this moment to.

541
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: Do so.

542
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: If we imagine flee to.

543
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 6: Or felt from the Thames at as Lee.

544
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein along

545
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts, editing

546
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: by Jorge just and Alex Bloomberg. Special thanks to Emily Condon,

547
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Meg Driscoll, Kelly Coonan, Nicole Wong, Jonathan Zanti, Alvin Melth,

548
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: Chris Neary and Silk from the Museum of Fine Arts

549
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: in Boston and Jackie Cohen. The show is mixed by

550
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: Kate Bolinski, music by Christine Fellows and John K. Samson.

551
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: Additional music credits for this episode can be found on

552
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: our website Gimbletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song

553
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: is by The Weaker Thands courtesy of Epitaph Records, and

554
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: our ad music is by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on

555
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight at gimblimedia

556
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: dot com. Join us next week for the last episode

557
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: of the season, Walls and.

558
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: We Repainted in an empty room, sign in an empty room,

559
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: in an empty ro How about this. Everybody clap your hands.

560
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: And people know when to stop.

561
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: Well, there's no stopping really,