1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi everyone, and welcome 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. This week, I'm rereleasing one of 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: my early interviews back from We'll have a brand new 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: episode up for you on June. Enjoy the conversation by Hi, everybody, 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: and welcome to Katie's Crib. In this episode, we are 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: talking about babies and sleep, sleep training scheduling on demand. 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: We are going to investigate this big and for a 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: lot of people, a very controversial subject. We have here 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,639 Speaker 1: a friend of mine by the name of Susie Menkes, 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: and she works with a company that she started called 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Healthy Little Sleepers here in Los Angeles. She's the founder 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: and she's going to talk to us about sleep training. Hi. Susie, Hi, 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you for 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: sharing your knowledge with us. I never heard about sleep training. 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: I never knew what it was, and then I had 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: a baby, and then it was all of a sudden, 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: all everybody was talking about. Can you walk us through 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: the very simple question of what is sleep training? What 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: is sleep training? Such a good question because oftentimes people 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: don't know about it until you actually have a baby 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: and there's this thing sleep training. You have to train 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: your baby to sleep. Um. So it's basically just making 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: changes in your baby's sleep habits so that they can 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: learn to sell soup. So a lot of times we 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: come home from the hospital they're newborn, we're there for them, 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: we're doing it for them. But at some point, and 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: it's typically around four months of age, is when there's 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: circadian rhythms start coming into play. What's that. Basically they're 30 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: the word circadian rhythms, you're smart circadian rhythms. Okay, they're 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: sleep rhythms. Um. And it's set by the rising and 32 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: setting at the sun, and so that's where you get 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: kind of those sleep schedules that people talk about, that 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: nine and one nap and things like that, um. But 35 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: really what happens is that four months of ages, they've 36 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: become already accustomed to some associations to sleep. So whether 37 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: you're nursing them to sleep, whether you're rocking them to sleep, 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: whether a dark room dark room, there's a sound machine 39 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: on all of it. So there's associations of all involved 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: with sleeping that they may need to unlearn and learn 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: to self soothe, and so that's where we come in 42 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: and try to do sleep learning for them and by 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: self soothing. To clarify that, you mean, like the baby, 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: he or she has her own tools to put her 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,399 Speaker 1: or himself to sleep. Right. So sleep is a science, right, 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: So it's a balancing of hormones. Melatonin is a sleep 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: hormone that we produce um and we don't really start 48 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: producing it until we're three or four months of age. 49 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: So that's where you get that day night confusion. Before that, 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: they're up during Yeah, it's in case you didn't know 51 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: where you're freaking out. Babies come out and they lived 52 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: in a dark place for ten months and then all 53 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: of a sudden we're telling them like, oh the sun's down, 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: the sun's up, but they have no idea, and a 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: lot of babies even when the first come out, which 56 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know until I was going through myself, it's 57 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: reversed so they could be up for some reason. Wow, 58 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: they are napping the hell out of this day. But 59 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: at nighttime it's like the most energy you've ever seen. 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: And it's because, like you're saying, until month three or four, 61 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: they don't know, They don't go by the sun. Yet 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: they don't go by those rhythms. Yet they don't produce melatonin. 63 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: The one thing that we do is produce melatonin, and 64 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: so melatonin in our breast milk is actually highest in 65 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: the evenings. So if you are nursing, you have that 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: benefit to give them nighttime breath smelt I am rather 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: than night mind blown right now again? Oh God, I 68 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: love Katie's grib selfishly because I get lessons like in 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: Motherhood on the regular, which is so great. Um wow, Okay, 70 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: why do you think sleeve training is such a controversial 71 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: and heated topic amongst parents. It is. It's often misguided 72 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: sometimes times by um like a fear tactic don't let 73 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: your baby cry um. And there is that kind of 74 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: almost like breastfeeding. There's that controversy of to breastfeed or 75 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: not to brescie pressure attached judgment. It makes a move. Now, 76 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: this makes you a bad mom. S If you're gonna 77 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: let your baby cry, you're harming your baby. Right. There's 78 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: a level of stress that's involved in learning a new tactic. 79 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: But the American Academy of Pediatrics is something that we 80 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: follow as sleep consultants, and they actually put a framework 81 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: together of stress. That's really a good guideline to think 82 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: about stress and what you are doing or not doing 83 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: for your baby. Right. So, there's a positive stress response, 84 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: which is a typical frustration, struggling, starting daycare, All those 85 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: are typical stress responses. There's a tolerable stress response, which 86 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: is more of something that's not every day, maybe a divorce, 87 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: a death in the family. And then there's toxic stress 88 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: response where, um, you don't have a loving caregifter, there's abuse, 89 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: there's neglected right. So those are the love That toxic 90 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: level is what we're talking about, being harmful and damaging 91 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: to the brain. That's not what sleep training is about, right, Um, 92 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: And you're not equating sleep training with abuse, right right. 93 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: So that's where this kind of misguided information comes from. 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: Of sleep training is involved with levels of stress. Yes, 95 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: they're learning a new habit and it's hard for any 96 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: of us to change something. So it's kind of dealing 97 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: with that. You have a stable environment, you have a 98 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: loving caregiver to help you cope through that stress. Right. 99 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: We don't say here, go go learn how to sleep 100 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: and walk away, right one. We do it for them first, 101 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: We do it with them. We watch them do it 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: and then they do it on their own. Whoa, guys, 103 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: that was just like a real SmackDown. Yeah. I definitely 104 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: personally had you know, I went back to work when 105 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: Albi was seven weeks old, and for me, sleep was 106 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: literal really like a number one priority list because I 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: couldn't memorize my lines, show up at work, look remotely 108 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: like I was a sane person and not like a 109 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: garbage bag and not get my sleep. And so I 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: remember the first times I, you know, was told it's 111 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: okay to let him make annoyed kind of cry as 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: sounds for two or three minutes. Wait a minute, let's 113 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: see what he does. And he's going to start to 114 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: teach himself, find his thumb or if you're a pacifier 115 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: person or whatever it is, find tools with which to 116 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: put himself to sleep. And I did have those thoughts 117 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: for a minute of like, am I subconsciously damaging my 118 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: baby that he's going to be in therapy for a 119 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: million years because of me? Because I let him cry 120 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: for three minutes And you're saying that is a stress 121 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: that is not damaging. No, Plus he's in a stable environment. 122 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: I was watching that monitor hawk and counting down the 123 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: second and you're there when he wakes up, or you're 124 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: there to feed him, to love him, to play with him. 125 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: You know, he's in that environment he is. You're building 126 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: that secure attachment in those first form four to six months, 127 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: So that's what you're doing. It's good to hear that. 128 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: I And there's also controversy. And I think there's also 129 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: controversy and that if you do sleep train around four 130 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: between four and six months, that there is that stigma 131 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: of um, that you're harm and your baby. It's too soon, 132 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: he's not enough. Wait, what do you say about those 133 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: sort of situations? Is there a set rule of when, how, 134 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: how much weight? All these things? And again I don't 135 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: really know what I'm talking about. These are like literally 136 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: rumors that have flown into my head. Typically PD I 137 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: always say, go by your pediatrician. Where are they on 138 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: the spectrum in terms of weight wise and are they 139 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: are they gaining weight? Um? You know, if they're born early, 140 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: sometimes you have to wait a bit longer because you 141 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: really want to go by their developmental age, which is 142 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: based on their do date, not when they're born. Um, 143 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: so if they're early, you might have to wait another 144 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: two weeks or three weeks sure, UM. Pediatricians often have 145 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: kind of a fourteen pound rule. UM. If I get 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: a client with a twelve thirteen pound baby, but they're 147 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: feeding well, they're gaining weight, I'm not gonna turn them away, UM, 148 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: because they are developmentally ready, they are producing melatonin, they 149 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: are their circadian rhythms are in place. They do have 150 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: social smiles, UM, which develop around six to eight weeks 151 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: of age, which is a prime example of when to 152 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: set routines in place because social smiles is a connection. 153 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: They are making connections and associations. Interesting. Can you, UM 154 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: talk to us about some of the different methods of 155 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: sleep training that parents use. Is there a particular one 156 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: that you recommend as a dependent on the baby and 157 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: the issue at hand, um, So, there's no one particular 158 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: method that I use. I often take a look at 159 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: the baby, and you know, the parent is the expert 160 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: on their baby, so I get a lot of information 161 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: from the parents, UM, their age, what's been going on before, 162 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: anything has been tried before, how long have they tried it. 163 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: I've been trained by the Family Sleep Institute, which doesn't 164 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: have one particular method that they were trained in. All 165 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: of them, UM, and it's sometimes a combination of them. 166 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: There's a Ferbor method, which is like a check and console. 167 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: There is the sleep wave by Kim West. I believe 168 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: there is cried out, which is extinction. Where is the 169 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: true cried out? You put your baby in your bed, 170 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: in their crib, you leave the room, you come back 171 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: the next morning, assuming there's no night feeds. Assuming but 172 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: you still can do sleep training with a night feed. 173 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: And that's the one that moms say like they did 174 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: that for two or three nights and then they never 175 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: did it again. Like is that true. I didn't have 176 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: to do that, so I don't know if I would 177 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: even be built of the stuff that could do it. 178 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: It's not for the faint of heart. I did it 179 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: with my first um. How many nights did it take? 180 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: And how long was the grind? Do you know? Thirty minutes? No, 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: I opened a bottle of wine and I cried and 182 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: watched the monitor and thirty minutes he was asleep. Wow. 183 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: The next night it was like maybe ten minutes. Okay, 184 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: So that's the cryed out method. What's the verber berber 185 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: Ferber method? What is that? So that is a check 186 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: and console. So you put your baby down to sleep. 187 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: He starts crying. Five minutes, you go and check on him. 188 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: You don't pick him up or her up. Um, you 189 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: say a little it's okay, we're here, it's time to sleep, 190 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: and you leave the room. And then you can wait 191 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,599 Speaker 1: ten minutes and then you go in after ten I 192 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: mean it can be another five. You can do lights 193 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: of like going in every five minutes and just using 194 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: your voice and your presence to console them, but you 195 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: don't touch them. And then the next two nights or 196 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: whatever it is that's comfortable for you, then you might 197 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: extend to you wait ten minutes before you go in 198 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: the room. I have a friend that did that exactly. 199 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: And then what's the other method that you said. There's 200 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: a chair method, which is a little bit more gentle approach. 201 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: So you're in the room with them. Um, it takes 202 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: a little bit longer in terms of, you know, getting 203 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: out of the room and being at So you start 204 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: next to the crib in a chair or on the floor. 205 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: It's like the chairman um, and you're there. You can 206 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: first couple of days, you can use your hands on them, 207 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: but you don't want any like any other rhythm involved, 208 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: because you don't want to start another association for them 209 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,479 Speaker 1: to get attached to. So you keep it minimal interaction, 210 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: but you're there for them. And when they fall asleep, 211 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: you leave the room. When they cry again, you come 212 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: back into that position and you do the same thing 213 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: without picking your baby up. Wow. And and then you 214 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: slowly move the next two days or maybe in the 215 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: middle of the room. Then you're not doing touching, it's 216 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: just your voice. The next two days you move again, 217 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: and maybe your three quarters the way of the room. 218 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: Then you're at the door. Then you're outside the door, 219 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: and then kind of like slowly, slowly introducing that they 220 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: are safe in this space, that you are here. Until 221 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm not here physically, but I am here to hear me, 222 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: but I am here. Whoa, that's this is all God motherhood. 223 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: You've got to be a beast, Like this is so 224 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: so fascinating. Um, do you have any advice for what 225 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: parents can say when I don't know? I do feel 226 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: like this is like breastfeeding, like you brought it up already. 227 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: It's just a very judgy topic. UM. I can remember 228 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: very early on, like my baby was sleeping to the 229 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: night at eight weeks, or like the other version, which 230 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: is like, oh my gosh, I I honestly do not 231 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: believe in sleep training until they are six months of 232 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: age and fifteen pounds, and that is cruel to be doing. 233 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: I've heard all sides of the spectrum, and people are 234 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: not afraid to give their opinion and their advice. So 235 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: what would you suggest for parents that are I don't know, 236 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: I might have that are picking whatever it is they're 237 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: picking and how to stick with it, or I think 238 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: finding the support, um, whether it's their husband, their friend, 239 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: their family. Sometimes family has different opinions though. UM. I've 240 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: had clients who was like, I didn't tell my mom 241 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: I was doing this or my dad I was doing this, 242 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: And there's the mom and dad calling and I'm at 243 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: their house and they're not picking up. And then she's saying, 244 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: oh shoot, my sister probably told them and that's why 245 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: they're calling. You know, they know you're here. UM. So 246 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: they got to find where they can find that support. 247 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes that's me right. UM. I work with families 248 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: on a two week period when they hired me, so 249 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm there for them for two So that how it 250 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: works with a sleep consultant. You get hired for a 251 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: two week period. And you work with that family closely 252 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: and hopefully in that two weeks you see a bunch 253 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: of improvement as far as sleep is concerned. Yeah, I 254 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: have to say sleeping even to this day is probably 255 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: the only really touchy subject where Adam and I, my 256 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: husband and I, we really sometimes butt heads, which is 257 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: when we put the baby down and he's making fussy sounds. Um, 258 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: it's like someone screaming in my head, Like it's so 259 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: loud to me that I'm not going in there, and 260 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: the seconds go by like years, and my husband just 261 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: has a way higher threshold for like it's only in 262 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. He's going to put himself down. He always does. 263 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: He does it every night. He's gonna put himself down, 264 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no no, no, no, no, no no no, no, 265 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: tonight is different, It sounds different. It is just it's 266 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: just taking forever. And to be clear, he's going he's 267 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: not screaming crying at all. He's either has gas or 268 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: he's like getting tired and expressing himself. But I have 269 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: to say even to this day that that is a 270 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: husband wife dilemma for me, for our family absolutely, and 271 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: I work with family couples that way. Because there are 272 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: differing opinions about what to do and kind of coming 273 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: to an agreement in the middleground and having that plan 274 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: and being able to have that plan for both of 275 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: them to work off of, and then caregivers too. So 276 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: you're like a therapist to the middle woman. Um So, 277 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: at what age would you say a sleep routine is established? 278 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: Um So I touched on this early around six to 279 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: eight weeks. Um. Just a routine, right, not sleep training. Right. 280 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: We're not trying to get them to sleep on their own, um, 281 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: but they are. When you see social smiles, they are 282 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: making connections. So when you put those pre bedtime teens 283 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: in place, it's their sense of routine and structure that 284 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: sleep is around the corner, right. And that's when I 285 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: was told like, this is when you might introduce a 286 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: bath routine and then like a song or a book 287 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: or the lights change or the white noise sound comes up. 288 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: But you get into this like sort of ritual routine 289 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: that they can associate with, Now, I'm going to sleep 290 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: for the night, right, and and and naps too. You 291 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: can do a shortened version for now do and it 292 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: helps so helps increase that melotonin levels because their bodies 293 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: and their mind are already getting ready for sleep because 294 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: those routines are starting, and so that melatonin is starting 295 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: to get produced. Great. Um, is it ever too late 296 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: to start? Like do you ever get phone calls from 297 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: babies that are are not sleeping through the night at 298 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: one and a half too? It's never too late. It's 299 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: it's a lot easier when you start early because you 300 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: just have certain pattern patterns and rhythms, um that are 301 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: in place. Um. So when you start sleep training a 302 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: little bit later, um, there's just a little bit bigger 303 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: of an adjustment. Um, maybe a little bit more protest 304 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: because they're verbal. Um. So you put, so, what are 305 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: the benefits of sleep training? And you know, if I 306 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: was playing Devil's advocate, here are there benefits to just 307 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: reading the baby's cues and just letting the baby sleep 308 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: when they're ready? That's probably like nails on a chalkboard too. 309 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: But no, I mean for our listeners and viewers who 310 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: are like truly because there are so many stigmas attached. 311 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: So sleep training is important both for the parents and 312 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: for the child because sleep deprivation is hard on us. 313 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: We can't function as well. We're going to fight more 314 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: with our partner. We're going to be testy during the day. 315 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: We won't remember things as well. We don't have pregnancy, 316 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be like rain mom, right not yeah, yeah, 317 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: the same thing. Um yeah, continuous um. So. And what 318 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: happens in sleep, especially in the first four to five 319 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: hours of sleep, um is non ari em sleep. It's 320 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: the most important sleep we get. It's when our brain 321 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: shrinks and our toxins are flushed out, so that sleep 322 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: is most important to get consolidated, which is get them 323 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: to sleep from like seven to twelve. And then that's 324 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: when we say, if you're still having a feeding at night, 325 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: have it after midnight. Whoa, Okay, I was doing that 326 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: in the early days. Okay, okay, okay. So sleep training, 327 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: you would say, is so beneficial because it's important to 328 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: get them to have quality, uninterrupted sleep that's where their 329 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: brain develops. And also so that we don't just jump 330 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: off a crazy drain of insanity because it's just so 331 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: hard to be I mean, I've never been so sleep 332 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: deprived to my whole life. I thought I was gonna 333 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: lose my mind. Um. And on the flip side, right, 334 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: just following your baby's cute right, Yes, So that works 335 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: great if you have a flexible sleeper, and sometimes you 336 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: just fall naturally into that pattern and that's when you 337 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: get like, oh yeah, my baby sleep. And at eight 338 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: weeks you're like, great, you have a uniform baby. Thanks 339 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot, you know. Um, But it goes hand in hand, right, 340 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: So the parenting style and the baby's flexibility just matched 341 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: up and they got into a good rhythm um, and 342 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: it just it happens naturally, and so they're able to 343 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: follow those babies cubes. Sometimes babies have colic, sometimes they 344 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: have reflux. Sometimes the parents are working, so there's a 345 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: lot of other things juggling and to follow your baby's 346 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: cues um necessarily doesn't always work. And that was yeah, 347 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: that was my case. Like I remember going back at 348 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: seven weeks to work and emailing my nursing schedule to 349 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: carry Washington work because she was the director of the 350 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: episode and I had to feed albeit six nine twelve 351 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: three six, and I had to know that he was 352 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: going to be waking up from his nap at that time, 353 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: that I was going to be allowed to go back 354 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: to my trailer at that time to feed my kids. 355 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: So for me, it really helped knowing that he naps 356 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: from a thirty to ten in the morning. At ten, 357 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: I feed him, then he naps again from eleven to one. 358 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: At one, I feed him, and then he naped again. 359 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: So in the more, you know, so the early stages, 360 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: it was very helpful. Now it's funny that I find 361 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: that I'm off and he's in a routine already. His 362 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: naps are sort of changing, and I've become far more 363 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: flexible in sort of experimenting, like not waking him up 364 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: from a nap and seeing how long he goes because 365 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: I think he's trying to tell me something that his 366 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: naps are. Maybe we're going to drop the nap maybee, 367 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to go from four naps to 368 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: three naps to two naps, you know. So, But I'm 369 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: also off, so I have some of the you know it, really, 370 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: you're right. It depends on the schedule and what your 371 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: baby thrives on, right, And he's already in a great 372 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: routine totally, so you have that kind of Okay, Well, 373 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: he knows when he needs time to go to so, 374 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, I have a whole setup, the whole aura 375 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: vibe of his room is totally set and ready for shades. 376 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: She's got a mark pac don't. Oh yeah, guys, we're 377 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: in Albie's crib right now, micrib Albie's nursery. But yes, 378 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: and I do carry those things around with me. Now. 379 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: I've gotten so confident that we've um that he's a 380 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: good sleeper right now that we are able to. We 381 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: black out his stroller and we haven't traveling sound machine, 382 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: and so if I am on the go and can't 383 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: move my schedule things around, he will take his nap. 384 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: It's on as good. And I don't want to do 385 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: it all the time, but when I do, it's he knows. 386 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: It's like he knows it's time. Um. Can co sleeping 387 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: be a part of sleep training? Are the mutually exclusive? UM? 388 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: Closely being is another controversial topic. Um. There it CO sleeping, 389 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: so you guys know, means sleeping the same bed as 390 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: your parents as the mom or dad, correct or or 391 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: and the baby. You get me. So again, we go 392 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: by what the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends, and part 393 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: of their role of having the baby in your room 394 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: till one year of age UM was to encourage you know, 395 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: the ease of breastfeeding and taking care of your baby 396 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: and reducing the risk of SIDS. Co sleeping with a 397 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: newborn and a baby under a year of age is 398 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: not safe. Um So instead of co sleeping, we want 399 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: to think of it as room sharing. Right. You can 400 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: have a co sleeper that's attached to the bed, but 401 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: you're not going to roll over onto the baby, right. 402 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: Um So it's really about reducing the risk of SIDS, 403 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: and that's something we can control because there's other things 404 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: that we can't control, like developmental periods and maybe something 405 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: they're thinking about about SIDS is that it is biological, 406 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 1: so we can't control that, but we can control all 407 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: these external factors. So if I have a co sleeping parents, 408 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: if they're over one year of age and the baby 409 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: and you know there that's the setup they want to do. 410 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: I can work with them, but I really try encourage 411 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: room sharing. And sometimes room sharing is a necessity because 412 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: of another baby, or they live in New York's, yeah, 413 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: of course, so kind of working around maybe they're in 414 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: a studio apartment. I've done that too. I just took 415 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: my first trip where Albie as in my room in 416 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: a long time. He's seven months old and he was 417 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: in my room and every two minutes, I heard a 418 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: sound and I thought something was happening. It was insane. Um, 419 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: you say you do a two week period with the family. 420 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: Is that how long sleep training typically takes? Again, depends 421 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: on the method, right, So the chair method will take 422 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: up to ten to fourteen days, just in terms of 423 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: your process of removing the room. Right. Um, but that's 424 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: not to say your baby might be sleeping way before that. 425 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: You might sit there for five minutes and then leave 426 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: by the All right, it could be all done in 427 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: two days, three days, and five days. It's wow. It's 428 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: a case by case basis and how long it typically takes. 429 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: And it also depends on how consistent the parents are. 430 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: So consistency is a real, real, big component. Because maybe 431 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: there are visitor comes and I always say no visitors, 432 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: no traveling, no this, but things life happens, Right, I 433 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: always get called like, oh no, I messed up. But 434 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: well that's okay, let's reset. Right, it just might take 435 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: a little bit longer. Right, How do you wean a 436 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: baby off of nighttime feedings in order to get a 437 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: longer chunk stretch of sleep. So again, so the first 438 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: feeding we want, we want it after midnight because their 439 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: brain is going to develop. If they go down at 440 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: seven pm and they sleep till midnight, that's a great 441 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: five hour developmental chunk. Okay um. And then you can 442 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: do it a couple of ways. You can push the 443 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: time out. So let's say two nights in a row, 444 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: they made it to twelve thirty, Okay, tomorrow night, let's 445 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: try and make it twelve forty five or one o'clock. 446 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: So you can push it out that way. You can 447 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: also reduce how much how much time wise or that's 448 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: what I did, um, and kind of push it out 449 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: that way so they get their stomach is less full, 450 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: so they're not used to sleeping on a full stuff. 451 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: That's what I did. It took forever, but it was 452 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: like what worked for me, which was I would pump 453 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: and then that bottle that would happen at one o'clock 454 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: in the morning. It was five ounces, then four and 455 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: a half for three nights, then four for three nights, 456 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: and three and a half for three nights, and three 457 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: for three nights and two and a half into than 458 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: gone exactly. Um, okay, great, thank you I have I'm 459 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: not like a freak about sleeping, but I'm always like 460 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: he's not eating enough, Like there's this weird you'll see 461 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: like as Mom's just every single thing is like anxiety. 462 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: It's like he's not working, he's not eating. It's like 463 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: he's not eating at one am. And I had to 464 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: do that for at first, I dropped the four am feed, 465 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: then I dropped the one am feed, and then magically 466 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: it happened. Um, and then I felt like a human being. 467 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: Is nap training and sleep training same different? Do do 468 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: the same thing at the same time? It's tell me, 469 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: I typically like doing them both at the same time 470 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: because sleep comes together much quicker that way. Um, because 471 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: when you don't get good naps, you don't get a 472 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: good nighttime sleep. Are they directly related? They can't. They 473 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: can lead to nighttime wakings. No, thank you. I do 474 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: like working on them together. That doesn't mean they can 475 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: be They all still can be separated. So you can 476 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: work on ninth. If you're going to do one first, 477 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: you work on nighttime first, because it's the easier of 478 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: the two, because naps are harder to come together because 479 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: they're a lighter stage of sleep. Got it. So even 480 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: when you're working on them together at the same time, 481 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: naps still might be wonky a little bit, um, But 482 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: then as the more practice you give your baby for napping, 483 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: the more it will come together. What are the early 484 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: I don't know mistakes that parents make with sleep training, 485 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: stopping too fast, saying it does it's not working one 486 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: day two? Oh gosh, I'm so fad that is me. 487 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of working out there. But good thing, Adam. 488 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: You know, I always feel like it takes a partner 489 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: to be kind of stronger than the other to stick 490 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: with it, not given too soon, not just quit too early. 491 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: So it's really perseverance and stamina and having a plan. 492 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: Write it down, even if you're not working with someone. 493 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: Put a plan down on paper. This is what I'm 494 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: going to do on night one. This is what I'm 495 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: going to do on night two. That really what your resolution? 496 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: Keeping yourself accountable, tell somebody about it right takes the 497 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: village guys. Um, So you'd already mentioned this and this 498 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: is big on me. But what happens when you might 499 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: have gotten a lot of these routines into place, and 500 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden something does come up travel illness, 501 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: somebody's come to visit. It just throws off everything and 502 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: you kind of get through it and then you come 503 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: back when you come back to it. Is that kind 504 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: of the deal? Yep, you come back when you get 505 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: at home, you pick things right back up where you 506 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: left off. Um, waking them up in the morning to 507 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,719 Speaker 1: reset their circadian rhythms. If you've been traveling, Yeah, guys, 508 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: I'm going on a trip. And I am fully for 509 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: freaking out about the time difference because I have a 510 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: great schedule going on and a great sleeping baby, and 511 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, what am I doing? But see, I am 512 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: of this person of like I'm two ways, Like I'm 513 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm sort of a hippie and down for like whatever, 514 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: and it's my life and I want to live it 515 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: and I want to grab it by the khons. But 516 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: I also I'm like, but he we're on a schedule 517 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: and he sleeps through the night, and like, what am 518 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: I doing? He'll get back. It's a muscle, he knows it. 519 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: He'll come back to it. And it's a personal choice. 520 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: Like you know, Um, you basically just go back to 521 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: whatever training method you had going great for you from before. 522 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: What do you suggest for people who like you say 523 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: the partners involved nanny's are involved, grandparents are involved, you know, 524 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: any sort of other help. I'm sure it's so important 525 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: to get everybody on the same freaking page of your schedule. Later, 526 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: if you're a scheduled person, have your schedule laid out. Um. 527 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: I had printed all over my trailer because I had 528 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of different I it took me a while 529 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: to find nanny I very much trusted, and so at 530 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 1: the beginning, it was my husband, and it was friends 531 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: who were also nanny's when I was a nannie, and 532 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: people I really trusted because I was having a hard 533 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: time leaving the baby alone and I had to write 534 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: everything down, and I really hope that everyone's stuck to it. 535 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: What are the common myths, stigmas, all this stuff about 536 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: sleep training that you want to dispel, Susie right here, 537 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: right now. Um, we talked about when already that you're 538 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: harming your baby if you let them cry. Thank you 539 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: for telling me, because I even still worry. Oh yeah, 540 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, I think about those early days 541 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: of like letting him cry for three minutes and just 542 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: being like, because you know what, I just went away 543 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: with my mother, God bless her. I love her so much, 544 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: but I put the baby down and he was whining 545 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: and complaining for a couple of minutes. Um. And my 546 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: mom was horrified, like horrified that I let him do that. Um. 547 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: And she'll be the first to admit, oh, Katie, I 548 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: let you sleep in the bed for whatever. I never 549 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: let you cry a day in your life, you know. 550 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: And and so we have differing opinions there, um, but 551 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: I have to admit I totally caved and went in 552 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: and got him and rocked him, and I like, never 553 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 1: rock him to sleep, but like my mom and I 554 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: felt the judgment of it, and I was like, oh 555 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: my gosh, you're You're totally right. We're on a family vacation. 556 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: He's upset. He should never be upset. I'm a horrible mom. 557 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm hurting him. I went up and I rocked the 558 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 1: baby and he wanted to sleep in my arms, And like, 559 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: I don't ever do that. So the smallest comment will 560 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: make you do yep. The stranger for a stranger. I 561 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: remember being in baby Gap and my little girl was 562 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: taking a nap and I was like, all right, here 563 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: it comes. He forty five minutes sleep cycle. She starts crying. 564 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: Grandma in front of me, turns around, says, I think 565 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: she needs to burp. Oh, you're like, and I'm like, 566 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: how do you know? And I'm like, okay, I'm like 567 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: you reason, I'm like, my god, damn, I gotta buckle 568 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: her now and like pick her up. And I did, 569 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: and you did. I did. Oh my god, we didn't 570 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: even know this person. You guys. Being a mom is 571 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: so weird and hard and a study in being strong 572 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: on your own and sticking to your convictions and oh 573 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: my gosh, it's so insane. Um so another one, yes, 574 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: what else is your only option is cry it out? 575 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: That it's involved in, like just letting your baby cry. Right, 576 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: So you're saying if that's something that just freaks you out, 577 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you necessarily can't still achieve getting 578 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: some sort of sleep schedule in place right, And timing 579 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: is a key component of it, Like you can get 580 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: your baby down if the timing is right and you're 581 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: processing their sleepy cues and getting all the things in 582 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: line that I can go down without crying. Oh, you 583 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: might take a little bit, but I watched my baby 584 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: like a hawk. As soon as I see like yawn 585 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: one to three, I'm like, we got nap baby, we 586 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: got nap, and I'm going to catch him before the 587 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: breakdown happens. But like, I know, when I've crossed over 588 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: into breakdown land where I missed, I was doing whatever 589 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: and I didn't see the cues of the rubbing eyes 590 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: and the yawning and whatever, and now we're into full 591 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: blown but bye, and now I know it's gonna be 592 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: so much harder to get them down right. Um, this 593 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: is so so so all interesting, And I think that 594 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: that's very helpful to know for moms who might be 595 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: super turned off by the stigma attached with crying it out, 596 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: or feel really upset about babies crying and their own 597 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: baby crying, that there are options, like you've said, the 598 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: Ferber method and what was the other one? Others, others, chair, 599 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: there's a sleepwave, they hug it out. There's another I'll 600 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: get out. We didn't talk about that you at all. 601 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: What's that? Um? So it's another gentle version. So you 602 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: have a baby that's standing. Um, I haven't gotten there yet, guys, 603 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: I am scared. Okay, it's similar to chair, but you 604 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: don't pick up your baby, but you kind of go 605 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: over and you just kind of like I'm here, hug yeah, 606 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: and then I'll slowly like calm down with your calmness, 607 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: and they light down. Oh my gosh. So I did 608 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: hug it out with my daughter at some point when 609 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: she was standing because she was she was sleeping very well. 610 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: And then you know some develop mental things. So that's 611 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: also the thing where you might have your sleep thing 612 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: down and then all of a sudden rolling over his 613 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: new four months sleep progression is new. We're standing now, 614 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: we're pulling ourselves over the crib, and we are mcgivering 615 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: and matrix ng our way down the side of the crib. 616 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm so scared for that to happen. By the way, 617 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, that will be another episode. Oh good. Then 618 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: I had a friend who um when her son got 619 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: the big boy bed, he kept running out of his bed, 620 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: drunk with freedom and getting into their room every single night, 621 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: like in the middle of the night whenever he woke 622 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: up and they put a gate up, and then he 623 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: would scream cry through the night on the other side 624 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: of the gate and say I'm bleeding, I'm hurt, I 625 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: need to change my shirt, I'm all wet. I mean 626 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: not true things, And I just have a vision of 627 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: my friend and her husband holding each other sobbing to 628 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: stay strong and not go because he had to walk 629 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: his own self back to his big boy bed and 630 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: put himself to sleep. Guys, this is not for the 631 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: faint of our being a parent and whatever method you choose, 632 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: just getting through the night and everyone having sleep. It's safety, guys, 633 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: Like there were moments you're driving behind a wheel of 634 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: the car, you need sleepy. So we've talked a little 635 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: bit about the benefits of sleep training for the baby 636 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: um developmentally, but also I'm sure you probably see huge 637 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: leaps and bounds in in parents themselves when they get sleep. Yes, Um, 638 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: we're able when we get sleep, We're able to be 639 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: more responsive to them versus being reactive. Because when I 640 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: know when I don't get sleep, I'm snappy for sure, 641 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: and I don't need to take it out on them 642 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: just because there having a tantrum over something and I 643 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: blow up at them because I'm tired. Right, So getting 644 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: sleep in line, not only for them but for you 645 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: is really important so you can parent better too and 646 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: get behind the wheel of a car, drive them somewhere 647 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: or just yourself. Yes, but yes, it's it's sleep. Is 648 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: I had never gone without sleep in my entire life. 649 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: I had never I mean, any time I'd had like 650 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: a crazy night all night are in college to get 651 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: a paper in or something, I would sleep the next day. 652 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: Or any time those early twenty years where I partied 653 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: really hard or whatever, I would sleep the next day. 654 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: You didn't have to do anything. No, And when I 655 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: brought my son home, I for the first time my 656 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: whole life went three nights without sleep, and my husband 657 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: said I was saying crazy things, like literally crazy things. 658 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: I was scared, Like I I really enjoy sleeping. I 659 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: like napping. I like my eight hours, and sleep was, like, 660 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the most important thing. And I'm 661 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: so happy to know you. There are tons of different 662 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: options with figuring out what a parent is comfortable with 663 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: for themselves and for their baby and for their family. 664 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: But what we know is that sleep is more important. 665 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: And that's what I do too, is building a relationship 666 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: with the family to understand them. And you know, are 667 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: they working, are they not working? Um, who's taking care 668 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: of the baby during the day, What type of schedules 669 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: do we need? Um? Kind of putting it all to 670 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: are they going to daycare? Are they going to preschool. Um, 671 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: when naps look like they're what are their philosophy kind 672 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: of putting it all together for them so that they 673 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: can have a plan of what to do when they 674 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: do get home, or maybe they're not getting home in time, 675 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: So it's really tailoring it to your individual case. Susie 676 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: Manky's you are awesome healthy little sleepers. You guys, UM, 677 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for all of your time and 678 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: your information and for talking about babies and sleeping. You're 679 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: welcome the pleasure. I guys, I am so excited today 680 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: because my dear friend Abigail Morgan is here, and she 681 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: is not only a very good friend, but she really 682 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: helped me through very rough time in my life after 683 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: my miscarriage. Um. I it took me months to get 684 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: a regular cycle back. It took me months to feel 685 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: like myself again. Abigail was the person that stuck needles 686 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: in me lovingly every single week I got pregnant. And 687 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: I also went to Abigail every week of my pregnancy, 688 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: and she visited me at home after I gave birth. UM. So, 689 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: not only is it like acupuncture, but you were a 690 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: helper and spiritual help to me mentally, physically, pre pregnancy, 691 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: throughout my pregnancy and after my pregnancy. Thank you for that. 692 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: You're welcome. I explain a little bit about what you do, 693 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: and then we'll we'll move into UM all of the 694 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: awesome stuff you do to your with your own children, 695 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: because you are a mother of two. I am. Yeah. 696 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: So I'm a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist, board certified in 697 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: Traditional Chinese medicine in the state of California. So what 698 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: that means is that I'm I have a master's degree 699 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: in Traditional Chinese Medicine, Masters and Science and UM. I 700 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: am a primary care physician in California. So I have 701 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: to diagnose using you know biomedical codes UM and let's 702 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: say you know ib s or dysmenorrhea, painful periods or migraines, 703 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: whatever it is UM and understand what that means from 704 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: a Western perspective, but then also diagnose and treat according 705 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: to Eastern medicine or traditional Chinese medicine. I specialize in 706 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: reproductive health, so I have an additional board certification from 707 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: the American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine in UM Integrated 708 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: Reproductive Health and it is float Chinese Float Chinese Medical 709 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: Arts yes, yes, flow Chinese medical arts and you when 710 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: you're not busy doing that, you are a mom of two. 711 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: I am and they hold. My kids are seven and nine, 712 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: and they're gosh almost eight, almost ten, great, And I 713 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: want to talk to you a lot about when we 714 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: started to get close mere working together throughout my pregnancy. 715 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: I was and still am very fascinated in the way 716 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: in which you raise your kids, which I think is 717 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: great for this episode. And I would love to talk 718 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: to you about how you raised them really like through sleep, 719 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: through food, all of your because I know you worked 720 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: with attachment parenting. You had a family bed, and I'm 721 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: fascinated by these things because I've met your kids and 722 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: they're awesome. So clearly the things you did were successful 723 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: for you and your family. UM, can you talk to 724 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: me how you came to the decision about a family 725 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: bed and what is that exactly? Well for me? Um? 726 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: I grew up in New York City. My parents were 727 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: in the theater business. They're very had a very unconventional upbringing, UM, 728 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: and I you know, I was, I felt like, well 729 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: I kind of grew up Okay, I'm well adjusted, Like 730 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: what did they do? And I didn't honestly know apparently 731 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: that I had a crib and everything. But my mom's like, yeah, 732 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: but you were in our bed every night. Oh your 733 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: brother was in our bed until he was six. So 734 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: I just thought, well that worked. And then I also 735 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: had other people in my life who were doing family 736 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: bed Um what is it? What set? What does that mean? 737 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: Basically bed sharing? There's okay, so there's room sharing and 738 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: there's bed sharing. So now we know the American Academy 739 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: Pediatrics recommends room sharing as of two thousands sixteen, up 740 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: until minimum of six months, preferably a year. How they say, so, 741 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: even if you have your baby in a crib, the 742 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: AP recommends crippy in the room. Now that's obviously not 743 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: the right answer for everybody, but they came to that 744 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: decision after a home and my understanding is um, after 745 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: a lot of pediatricians were reporting, yeah, infant death from 746 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: from kids from parents that weren't attentive to let's say 747 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: they didn't have a monitor or you know, they were 748 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: relying too much on it or wearing noise canceling headphones 749 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: or something. So so that said, I felt that I 750 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: just wanted to be close to my baby. I I 751 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: felt that it would be hard to get up out 752 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: of bed and go into another room and take the 753 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: baby out of the crib and nurse and put the 754 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: baby back. We also had a small two bedroom apartment 755 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: at the time. When I had that, logistically, you know, 756 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: it didn't I feel like it made a whole lot 757 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: of sense. The walls were, you know, it's like a 758 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties building with paper thin walls. We would have 759 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: heard the kid anyway. And I just wanted to sleep 760 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: as much as possible because I knew i'd be going 761 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: back to work and all that. I also read a 762 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: book I had to write down the title because I, um, 763 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: I haven't looked at it in so long, but it 764 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: was called The Continuum com The Continuum Concept by Gene 765 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: Leadloff from six I read it probably in nine two thousand, 766 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 1: um way before I thought about having kids, and um, 767 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: the it's a It's a book by an anthropologist who 768 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: went into essentially a pre industrial society and looked at 769 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: how these parents were all functioned and they all wear 770 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: their babies. So then I looked into attachment parenting, and 771 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: I looked into how that's based on attachment theory. This 772 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: is yes, but explained to our listeners what exactly is 773 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: attachment parenting, because you know, there are a lot of 774 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: these trigger words when you're a new mom or when 775 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: you're pregnant that you hear, like sleep training, the cryed 776 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: out method, attachment parenting, a family bed, co sleeping. These 777 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: are all such triggering words that I think are like 778 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: not what's fascinating is that you've done some of them, 779 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: And can you explain what exactly attachment parenting is and 780 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: that worked for you? I can't, and I feel like 781 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: I didn't fully explain the answer to your question about 782 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: family bed Yes, we will get that. So. Yeah, So basically, 783 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: bed sharing is parents or caregivers in the same bed 784 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: as the baby. Room sharing is maybe there's a sidecar, 785 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: so you in one bed with you and your husband 786 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: and your baby. And then when the second kid came around, 787 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: we already had what's called a sidecar, a small um 788 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: infant mattress on the floor, and our king bed was 789 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: on the floor right next to him. Yeah, and so 790 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 1: that but then shortly after my second kid was born 791 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: there two years apart, he was like I'm out room literally, 792 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: oh yeah, he was like, this is you know this 793 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: waking up in the middle of the night, baby infant 794 00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: stuff like I'm over that. The fear that people have 795 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: about like blankets sheets rolling over on your baby, that 796 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,240 Speaker 1: does not happen. It doesn't happen. But there are safe 797 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: sleeping guidelines and your listeners can look them up from 798 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: Dr James McKenna. He actually wrote a great book called 799 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: Sleeping with Your Baby, A Parent's Guide to co Sleeping, 800 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: and so all of that is explained in that book. 801 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: But you know, the long and short of it is, 802 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: you don't have a lot of blankets. You don't have 803 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: blankets over the baby. It basically goes the breastfeeding parent, uh, 804 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: and then and the baby some sort of bedrail or wall, baby, 805 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: breastfeeding parent and then other parent. So we actually that's 806 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: the best way to do it. That's actually not what 807 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: we ended up doing. The configuration of the of the room. 808 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: We had dad on one side, baby in the middle, 809 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: and me and we just baby didn't have our comforter 810 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: over him. We made a U shape with the comforter 811 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: god or we had two separate comforters depending on the 812 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: time of here. You know, here we are in Los Angeles, right, 813 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: you don't really are, so, yeah, it's different than and 814 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: so when the baby would wake up and make sounds, 815 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: you would just roll over and lay down breastfeed and 816 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: he is right there. So the beauty of beauty of 817 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: it is that you know with que feeding overnight is 818 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: baby goes, you know, in roots and even at eight 819 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 1: weeks self attaches and I'm like, oh, I guess he's nursing. 820 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: You wake up and then you're done and you go 821 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: back to sleep. Yeah, So the nursing hormones, the oxytocin 822 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: and all those feel good hormones really help me. Is 823 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: the rest gating mom to go back to sleep? Sure, 824 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,919 Speaker 1: And and then you do that in a safe way 825 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: by not you don't obviously that there's a suffocation hazard 826 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: if there's a big blanket over the baby. Of course, 827 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: so we would have our own little baby blanket over him, 828 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: or a sleep sack or something like that, various things 829 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: depending on the time of year. If it was warm, 830 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: then baby would just be in a sleeper without any blankets. 831 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: And then when you gave birth to your second baby, 832 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 1: how did the bed look there? So fascinating. Yeah, So 833 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: at I my toddler was still nursing. He I breastfed 834 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,479 Speaker 1: through my whole second pregnancy. Um, oh yeah, you guys, 835 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: Abigail's a champion who tandem breastbed. That's why I ever 836 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,879 Speaker 1: heard of that. That's two babies, one on each boob. Yeah, 837 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: not always at the same time, although they were at 838 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: the same time sometimes. Um, it was just the second 839 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: pregnancy was not. It took us by surprise. So they 840 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: were two years apart. So the older kid who was 841 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: too when my the second one was born, was at 842 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: that time from eighteen months from his age eighteen months 843 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: until baby two was born, he was sleeping in a 844 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: sidecar arrangement, so he was on the floor in a 845 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: small baby mattress. Yeah, next to our bed. So we 846 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,239 Speaker 1: would put him down at his bedtime six thirty or 847 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: seven or whatever it was, and then we would go 848 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: leave the room and go about our night. And then 849 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: we would just go in and sleep in the family bed. 850 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: And so when baby two was born, um, and I 851 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: had both kids at home, so baby Nuver two was born. 852 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: That my birth was super super fast. The whole thing 853 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: was about an hour. Um. My husband had been putting 854 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: my older kid to bed, the two year old while 855 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: I was realizing, oh holy ship labor and then you know, 856 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: an hour later later, the baby's born in the in 857 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: the kitchen and water birth. This was a planned home birth, 858 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: I should say, with a with a nurse midwife. UM. 859 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: So then the next morning my son met the new 860 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: baby and he just kind of toddled out of his 861 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: little sidecar bed. Um. I think I had slept in 862 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: the couch pull out that night. Whatever sleep after, like superwoman, 863 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: I can't just what made sense? I mean? And and 864 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: so when shortly after you asked how the sleep when 865 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: the number two was born, so she we co slept 866 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: with her and UM, and then after the first couple 867 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: of nights, it became clear, Okay, so toddler really needs 868 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: to continue having this eleven hour straight sleep which he 869 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: had been getting. And UM and my husband needed sleep. 870 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: And so I slept in the twin bed in my 871 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: son's room, which he hadn't even moved into yet. This 872 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: is our two bedroom house. We'd upgraded, but it was 873 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: still only two bedrooms. And so I slept in the 874 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: twin bed with my daughter, the newborn, so that she 875 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: could queue feed. That said she would go three four 876 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: hours straight from newborn age, which you know, you can't 877 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: really let a newborn and more than four hours from 878 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,839 Speaker 1: when a breastfeed, so I had to sometimes wake her UM. 879 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: But she was a totally different type of breastfeeder than 880 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: than her older brother was UM and they are to 881 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: this day. They eat in very different ways, of different 882 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: metabolisms UM where he was just you know, like a 883 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: hummingbird nursing frequently. And she was like whatever, I'm like, 884 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 1: fast asleep. How did you? And then we all went 885 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: into the family bed. I don't know, she was maybe 886 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: a month old. I brought her back into the family bed, 887 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: and then my son was like, I'm out. He was 888 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: two years old, and he was like forget. It was 889 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: like moms up every four hours or less. Yeah, And 890 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: I don't even know if he knew that I was up, 891 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: because you know, it's quiet. It's not like the child 892 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: is screaming right right, feed them when they're hungry. But 893 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: he just I think that he was so completely appalled 894 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: that there was another child to be joined the family. 895 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,480 Speaker 1: It was like I'm going to just pretend this isn't 896 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: happening face, And so we gave it. How did you 897 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: find um? How is it on a relationship? You know? 898 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: I think that like I imagine I had the cozy 899 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: moments of like, you know, because I didn't do Albie 900 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,960 Speaker 1: was I was really really sick after I gave birth. 901 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 1: I had probably the worst cold and cough I've ever 902 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: had in my entire life. Um, and so Albie was 903 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: sleeping in his crib outside of my room from day one, 904 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: um with a night nurse. And I really still romanticized 905 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: the idea of like the whole family being in a 906 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: bed and all of these things. But realistically, since you 907 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: have done it for a long time, you had a 908 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: family bed, how does that look with your relationship, like 909 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 1: with your husband? Is it like do you know what 910 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, it's a good question. I'm sure it 911 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: looks different for every family. I know it does because 912 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends and family members who've 913 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: done family bed and many of them even longer than 914 00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: we did. So I'm just going to speak from my 915 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: own experience. Um, it was amazing when my first one 916 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: was born, you know, it really was. And this is 917 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,839 Speaker 1: a kid who physiologically needed to eat every forty five 918 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: minutes to an hour and a half until he was 919 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: about a year old. That was just who he is, 920 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: and he would get super full fast. His kid is 921 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: a newborn could drain abreast in five minutes for you guys, 922 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: like it would take that sometimes at the beginning I 923 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,240 Speaker 1: would be breastfeeding for and I remember asking my midwife, 924 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 1: who was also you know, elactation expert, like, what about 925 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: twenty minutes per side, isn't it supposed to? She's like, honey, 926 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: watched the baby, not the clock. And that was the 927 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: best advice I got. Right. So, in the light of 928 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,439 Speaker 1: all of these repeated surges of oxytocin and the feel 929 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: good hormones that you know, our brain has the pituitary gland, 930 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 1: which is between our eyes and the forehead, secretes oxytocin, 931 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: which stimulates uter in contractions. So that's part of what 932 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: helps the uterus go back to its normal size after 933 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: giving birth and also stimulates that prolactin comes from there 934 00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: to stimulates the milk let down. So every time you 935 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: get that surge of oxytocin, the prolactin milk let down, 936 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: you know, it feels kind of like being high, you know, 937 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: you're staring a little bit in college, or I could 938 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,359 Speaker 1: just say it's you know, it's a really heavy or 939 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: or like a post orgasmic feeling, except it's not sexual. 940 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: It's just really feel you're all in this bed of 941 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 1: feeling swimming in you know, of of mother homos. That's 942 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: what you were feeling and he was feeling. I also 943 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: felt a lot of anxiety right. Um. My husband and 944 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: I were talking about this the other day that he's like, 945 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,800 Speaker 1: do you remember when we could you drop a fork 946 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:35,759 Speaker 1: in the kitchen and we would panic because we thought 947 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: he was gonna wake up because he was such a 948 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,439 Speaker 1: light sleeper. I can't. I mean, I'm oh my gosh. Yeah. 949 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: So the first time was was was amazing, but it 950 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,439 Speaker 1: was also it also was not without its challenges. Did 951 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: you feel that you got quality It sounds like you've 952 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,879 Speaker 1: got quality sleep in this situation because you weren't having 953 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: to get out of bed. I remember that to go breastfeed, 954 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: like for you going back to work, it was all 955 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: about logging the most amount of minutes possible to sleep, 956 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: and that would mean having the baby right there next 957 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: to you. Means you're not getting up out of bed 958 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 1: to get the baby out of the crib and skin. 959 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 1: It's better, you know, regulation of the breastfeeding mechanism, the 960 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: you know, the letdown reflects happens sooner when your baby's 961 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: right next to you. Um. And then baby wearing, which 962 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: we did during the day. And this is all in 963 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: regards to attachment parenting, is what we're talking about. Can 964 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: you explain a little bit about what that means? Yes, absolutely, Well, 965 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: there's the eight principles of attachment parenting can be found 966 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 1: from Attachment Parenting dot org, which is not for profit organization, 967 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: but basically it's based on attachment theory, which goes way 968 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 1: way back. But um, it's the psychological model that describes 969 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,040 Speaker 1: relationships between humans, and attachment theory is now the primary, 970 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: the dominant theory used in child development UM, in infant 971 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: and toddler mental health. This is what psychotherapists use. It's 972 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,359 Speaker 1: called attachment theory theory. UM. And so we look at 973 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: it in the West in terms of the die ad 974 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,200 Speaker 1: like the mother infant I had, but um, really we 975 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 1: need to look at the whole world and see that 976 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: in most cultures it's not a nuclear family. Right. We're 977 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: kind of forgive me, we're kind of fucked in because 978 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 1: this whole idea of it's like one or two parents 979 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 1: raising kids is not you guys, take it really really 980 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: is true? Yes, yes, and um. So attachment attachment parenting 981 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,800 Speaker 1: looks at um being the a having a primary character, 982 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,840 Speaker 1: which usually ends up being the mother who gave birth. 983 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: But it doesn't have to be. I had a good 984 00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: friend whose wife went back to work at Disney as 985 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: a producer like six weeks after giving birth, and he 986 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,800 Speaker 1: was they were attachment parenting, so she would they co slept, 987 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: and but he was the baby wearing dad and he 988 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,359 Speaker 1: was at the park with us and all of that, 989 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: And so it doesn't have to be just a mom. 990 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: So it doesn't have basically means like that the baby 991 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: is always close to you in proximity. Yeah, always most 992 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,359 Speaker 1: of the time. So baby wearing allows you to kind 993 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 1: of go about your day while having the baby close 994 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: to you. Baby would for me, baby would sleep on me, 995 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,360 Speaker 1: and we baby where I had like fourteen different baby carriers, um, 996 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: and so some in the beginning were more appropriate to 997 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: an infant, and then as the older Yeah. And then 998 00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: once I had you know, I got pregnant, I was 999 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: wearing him more on my back um and then co 1000 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: sleeping or bedshine. You are que feeding, wow, and okay, 1001 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: so explain que feeding. This is also a whole thing. 1002 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,400 Speaker 1: And then I want to get into a little bit 1003 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,400 Speaker 1: about how you naturally got your babies sort of on 1004 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 1: a schedule on their own, and because you did end 1005 00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,440 Speaker 1: up going you went back to work. Yeah, after the 1006 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: first kid, I went back to work about three and 1007 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,919 Speaker 1: a half months after giving birth. But you know, I'm 1008 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: my own business owner, so I wasn't going back to 1009 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: work in the nine to six corporate office with an 1010 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,719 Speaker 1: hour community each way, right, you were just having your 1011 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 1: own hours. You do that plan so you practice co 1012 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 1: sleeping attachment parenting. You would wear that. You would sleep 1013 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,479 Speaker 1: with the baby on you for naps in your bed 1014 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,640 Speaker 1: at night, and then you would wear him and her 1015 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: as you did stuff that the day. I should point 1016 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: out when my husband, my husband was the primary caregiver 1017 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: on when I went back to work, he would do 1018 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,720 Speaker 1: the baby wearing, and on the weekends we both would 1019 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: and then when we had a babysitter, they would wear 1020 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,799 Speaker 1: the baby. Did you find there to be any sort 1021 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: of huge separation that happened or does the baby just 1022 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,719 Speaker 1: decide like, mom, I don't want to be warned, Like, 1023 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, when they start to really separate, look like, yeah, yeah, 1024 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 1: it's it's clear. You know. Basically, I feel that it's 1025 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: important to look at the brain and brain development. And 1026 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: so when attachment theory looks at how an infant responds 1027 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,799 Speaker 1: when they are separated from their primary caregiver, right, and 1028 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 1: so in in Africa, in UM, certain countries that are 1029 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 1: we might call pre pre industrial, you know, where they 1030 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,200 Speaker 1: still have um the I can't spacing on the word 1031 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: for it, but there's multiple mothers in the village. Still 1032 00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: goes on in many parts. Of course. Of course, it's 1033 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: this idea of solitary sleep is less than a hundred 1034 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: years old. So to kind of just put that in perspective, 1035 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,719 Speaker 1: we can think of how long we've been around as 1036 00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: a human race. So if a child is separated by 1037 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: themselves in the dark, scared, that goes into um, you 1038 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,160 Speaker 1: know what's called our implicit memory. So they look at it. 1039 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,920 Speaker 1: This is more of a doctor Dan Siegel, who's a 1040 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:27,800 Speaker 1: psychotherapist and neurobiologist UM here in California, but um looking 1041 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,000 Speaker 1: at how how the brain works, the amygdala, the hippocampus, 1042 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: the parts of brain that store our raw sensory memory. 1043 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 1: This is this stuff that's you know, pre verbal. But 1044 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,759 Speaker 1: if you let's say a child is attacked by a bear. 1045 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,439 Speaker 1: You know, just because there's three months doesn't mean they're 1046 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 1: not going to remember because it got and so the 1047 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,200 Speaker 1: same thing happens when a child is by themselves alone. Yeah, 1048 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,279 Speaker 1: and and so the idea is not to never leave 1049 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,160 Speaker 1: your child alone. But with attached and parenting, we are 1050 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: really looking for their cues of when they are ready, 1051 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: Like you carried this baby inside of you when they 1052 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,240 Speaker 1: were not alone for ten months, and now the babies 1053 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,839 Speaker 1: outside of you, and you keep them close and they 1054 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,759 Speaker 1: will make it clear within when they are ready for 1055 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,000 Speaker 1: any sort of distance. Is that sort of the well, yes, 1056 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: but also when mother mom and the dad or the 1057 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,360 Speaker 1: parents are ready exam for whatever it is. You know, 1058 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,239 Speaker 1: there's a there's a soothing approach so that the child 1059 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,319 Speaker 1: is associating going to sleep with being safe. If the 1060 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: child associates going to sleep with being in a state 1061 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,120 Speaker 1: of terror and fear, then you can bet that kid's 1062 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,279 Speaker 1: going to have problems later on in life with those 1063 00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,280 Speaker 1: implicit memories. Got it. So I saw that a lot 1064 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,960 Speaker 1: because I worked with moms for so long before I 1065 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: became a parent, and I saw that, and I just 1066 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: didn't want that. You knew in your heart that that 1067 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,800 Speaker 1: was not like you were never going to be For example, 1068 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: this whole cryed out method are letting babies really cry 1069 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,759 Speaker 1: when they go to sleep fundamentally and psychologically to you. 1070 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 1: That didn't sit right to me and my husband, and 1071 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,840 Speaker 1: we talked about it quite a lot, especially in pregnancy. 1072 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,600 Speaker 1: You just knew that you were going to always put 1073 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,759 Speaker 1: your baby to sleep in a state of comfort and 1074 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: peace and safety. That was the idea. And then when 1075 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,600 Speaker 1: eventually I night leaned my my oldest child when he 1076 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,720 Speaker 1: was about seventeen months, we used the DCOR J. Gordon, 1077 00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,160 Speaker 1: who is a pediatrician on the West side of California, 1078 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:20,399 Speaker 1: Santa Monica, rather west side west side California, the west side. 1079 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,160 Speaker 1: But yes, so what did you say? And um, and 1080 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,960 Speaker 1: that approach is picking a seven hour chunk because the 1081 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,880 Speaker 1: definition of sleeping through the night is about seven hours. Um, 1082 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, for a child under about a year. And 1083 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,320 Speaker 1: he says, do not use this method under like twelve 1084 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: to fourteen months. But we picked a seven hour chunk 1085 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,520 Speaker 1: because I was just tired of nursing all night throughout pregnancy. Honestly, 1086 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,279 Speaker 1: like that point, literally I'm sitting here, you guys, I'm 1087 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,759 Speaker 1: probably the most quiet I've ever been in any of 1088 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,880 Speaker 1: the podcast because my mouth is on the floor, just 1089 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,120 Speaker 1: a gape at like and that you look pretty and 1090 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,360 Speaker 1: you're like well rested and you did all of this. 1091 00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,359 Speaker 1: I just can't even imagine it. Okay, so well, they 1092 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,719 Speaker 1: do eventually sleep, but yeah, the idea was pick a 1093 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,720 Speaker 1: seven hour chunk and he says, you know, eleven pm 1094 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,720 Speaker 1: to six am, Yeah, exactly, um, and and when instead 1095 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,080 Speaker 1: of it's gradual, but it for us it took about 1096 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,719 Speaker 1: a week and we did it with both kids. So 1097 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 1: instead of nursing to sleep, you breastfeed, and then after 1098 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,160 Speaker 1: eleven pm, you don't breastfeed at all, and so you 1099 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,240 Speaker 1: do shishing and patting their back, but it's still within 1100 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,760 Speaker 1: the family bed. So this approach is fantastic if you're 1101 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,200 Speaker 1: doing family bed but you want to, you're ready to 1102 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: night lean your kids because you're making themselves feel safe 1103 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,760 Speaker 1: and comforted, but not through food and nursing anything. And 1104 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be the quote primary parent, It 1105 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the mom, as long as everybody's 1106 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: on the same page and you're really clear on your guide. 1107 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 1: So when did you start to see a schedule? I'm 1108 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,720 Speaker 1: assuming it started to naturally form because then you went 1109 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,880 Speaker 1: back to work and I know that your baby was 1110 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 1: cared for by your husband and then also at daycare 1111 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: and things like that, like, how did you continue this 1112 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 1: sort of methodology with really basically being sort of on 1113 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,920 Speaker 1: demand and taking things off of cues of your baby 1114 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,360 Speaker 1: um when other people are involved. Right, Well, we did 1115 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,600 Speaker 1: daycared in Sartil eighteen months, so I didn't have the 1116 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: experience of infant daycare, which I know a lot of 1117 00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 1: people who have. But I went back to work three 1118 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,520 Speaker 1: days a week, and two days my husband was on 1119 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,000 Speaker 1: was the primary parent. And then one day we had 1120 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,600 Speaker 1: a guy who saw like he could do it no problem. 1121 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,360 Speaker 1: Yeah we did, and we still did, and he would 1122 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: just feed a bottle before. The idea with que feeding 1123 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,560 Speaker 1: is that whether you're bottle feeding or your breastfeeding, if 1124 00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:30,560 Speaker 1: you have listeners who have really tried to breastfeed but can't, 1125 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,240 Speaker 1: you can absolutely still do cue feeding, whether it's with 1126 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,560 Speaker 1: breast milk, your own breast milk that's pumped don't, or 1127 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,680 Speaker 1: milk formula, whatever it is, it's food. And que feeding 1128 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: is basically like you think they're hungry, they're expressing that 1129 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,680 Speaker 1: they're hungry feed. You learn their cues pretty quickly, just 1130 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,560 Speaker 1: like you do with with when they need to poop, 1131 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,680 Speaker 1: which is the whole other conversation for another episode. But 1132 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,160 Speaker 1: so I went back to work at three and a 1133 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,960 Speaker 1: half months after baby number one was born, and um, 1134 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,480 Speaker 1: at that point he had really around I think about 1135 00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,880 Speaker 1: three months, he settled into a pretty predictable pattern of breastfeeding, 1136 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,920 Speaker 1: of sleep, and I believe rhythm and routine are so important. Um. 1137 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,680 Speaker 1: I love that sort of Waldorf approach of rhythm and routine. 1138 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,000 Speaker 1: Um of you know, a Rudolf Steiner of babies love routine. 1139 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,440 Speaker 1: They can be you know, looking at the baby's cues 1140 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: just like I explained my first kid and my second 1141 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,200 Speaker 1: kid totally different metabolisms. You know, one needed to eat 1142 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,000 Speaker 1: every and the only one could totally grow, like six 1143 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,360 Speaker 1: months was going like much much longer. So um, So 1144 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: we would watch their cues and then if it was 1145 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,600 Speaker 1: a caregiver there, they would give a bottle of breast milk, um, 1146 00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,240 Speaker 1: and then you know often wear the baby or or 1147 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 1: bounce on a ball and put them down to sleep 1148 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,120 Speaker 1: in their bed and then go about their business. Um. 1149 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:42,880 Speaker 1: And I do were to take care and they weren't 1150 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: on a set schedule for example, like they weren't saying, 1151 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,000 Speaker 1: like we do nap time here for to take care 1152 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,440 Speaker 1: was until eighteen months. Okay, so by that time the 1153 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,320 Speaker 1: baby was set one and a half year old. Yeah, 1154 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,600 Speaker 1: he was. I mean by the time he started daycare, 1155 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: he was probably waking up once a night, maybe twice 1156 00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,160 Speaker 1: a night to nurse. No, No, that's actually because we 1157 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 1: night we needed said teen eighteen months, so he was 1158 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: waking more frequently. But basically the full three full days 1159 01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,720 Speaker 1: a week of daycare when that started, um was about 1160 01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 1: the time he was sleeping straight through the night, eleven 1161 01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,040 Speaker 1: hour straight. So no, they had to set nap time, 1162 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, one to two thirty. And I've said, how 1163 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:17,600 Speaker 1: the heck are you going to get fourteen kids to 1164 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,240 Speaker 1: nap at the same time, And they say, oh, it 1165 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: just it happens, and they they're incredibly loving and they 1166 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 1: sit there and they pack their backs and then it's contagious. 1167 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,880 Speaker 1: All the kids are turned on that white noise exactly, 1168 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my god, So, um, 1169 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,720 Speaker 1: what did have you found to be the benefits of 1170 01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: co sleeping? So the advantages basically from when they night leaned, 1171 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,000 Speaker 1: stopped nursing overnight, but continue nursing during the day. Um, 1172 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,880 Speaker 1: they have not had any sleep aggressions at all, and 1173 01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,240 Speaker 1: so uh and they have positive associations with sleep. They're 1174 01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,520 Speaker 1: basically they're not afraid of it. They're not getting in 1175 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,800 Speaker 1: a dark room and freaking out. The biggest issue now 1176 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,600 Speaker 1: is but mom, I'm not done with this chapter, and 1177 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: they want to keep reading. And we have a firm 1178 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,640 Speaker 1: lights out, you know rule, and I know and I 1179 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,200 Speaker 1: want to keep reading. So I really take an empathy 1180 01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: based approach to parenting and that just grows with them. 1181 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: You know. Now they're in second and fourth grade and 1182 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,960 Speaker 1: their sleep is absolutely crucial. So if anything, it's they 1183 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: don't want to go to bed soon enough. Even if 1184 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:22,880 Speaker 1: they're still like in bed at seven thirty, that's a 1185 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,680 Speaker 1: hard out for us. But they may be reading for 1186 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,840 Speaker 1: an hour and a half and so you know, we 1187 01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,640 Speaker 1: have to turn in beded seven thirty and then they 1188 01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,160 Speaker 1: go to sleep at nine. They might read well, I mean, 1189 01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,600 Speaker 1: my daughters out by eight fifteen most nights, but my 1190 01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,680 Speaker 1: son will push it as late as we can. I 1191 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: be your kid, this islievable? Like that sounds well they 1192 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 1: have to be up at six delicious school. So yeah, 1193 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,200 Speaker 1: and I'm in bed bow. I treat a lot of 1194 01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,280 Speaker 1: insomnie in my practice, and a lot of the adults 1195 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,959 Speaker 1: I work with did not have healthy sleep hygiene as kids, 1196 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 1: and so I think sleep hygiene. You know, however that's defined, 1197 01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,800 Speaker 1: it looks different for every family. Is super important for 1198 01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,840 Speaker 1: setting us up as adults because the brain is so malleable. 1199 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's not fully milinated until age seven. Um, 1200 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:09,800 Speaker 1: what advice would you give to parents who might be 1201 01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: looking into making a choice like this? The number one 1202 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,840 Speaker 1: piece of advice I would give is trust your instinct, 1203 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,640 Speaker 1: trust your intuition, because it's never wrong. And if you 1204 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,160 Speaker 1: are married, and you're because a lot of the people 1205 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,520 Speaker 1: I work with are going about this alone. Um, single 1206 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,560 Speaker 1: moms by choice. But if you with your partner or 1207 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,400 Speaker 1: the person that you're deciding to raise your kids with, 1208 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: make sure that you talk about all these questions first, 1209 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:39,920 Speaker 1: not all of them, but many of them. How what 1210 01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,760 Speaker 1: do you want parenting to look like? Did you do 1211 01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,320 Speaker 1: that with your husband? I did? Like you, guys, knew 1212 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,640 Speaker 1: while you were pregnant you had spoken about a family 1213 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,080 Speaker 1: bed and attachment parenting and you had read books, and 1214 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of hilarious. My my mother 1215 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,680 Speaker 1: in law Ga blessed her through me a baby shower 1216 01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,240 Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of her friends that I had 1217 01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:00,880 Speaker 1: never met before. She said, so it's the nursery, Like, 1218 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,200 Speaker 1: what is the color theme? You know? And I said, well, 1219 01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:05,680 Speaker 1: we were not going to have a nursery because we 1220 01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,520 Speaker 1: have a two bedroom apartment and one of them, one 1221 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,280 Speaker 1: of the bedrooms was our office, right and um, and 1222 01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,400 Speaker 1: the other was our bedroom and so we were She's like, okay, well, 1223 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, are you going to find out the gender? 1224 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I'm not going to find out gender 1225 01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,480 Speaker 1: because there's no test for gender. But we elected not 1226 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 1: to choose to find out the sex for my first 1227 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,280 Speaker 1: so we didn't know. So I literally got like thirty 1228 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,040 Speaker 1: fantastic gifts that were all pink or green and um, 1229 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,160 Speaker 1: and my my mother in law net this adorable white 1230 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,120 Speaker 1: baby blanket for my son with a raider patch on 1231 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:44,200 Speaker 1: it because my husband's a huge Raider fan. She's determined 1232 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,120 Speaker 1: to have something and something, so I was just like, 1233 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,840 Speaker 1: if I can't have a pick color, we're gonna have 1234 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,120 Speaker 1: a blanket with a raider And so I love her, 1235 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,520 Speaker 1: So the real thing, it's trust your instinct. It's wonderful 1236 01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:58,440 Speaker 1: what I'm sitting here listening to because I I am 1237 01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,640 Speaker 1: such a Libra in that Yes, I'm just like very 1238 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,920 Speaker 1: good at weighing out, Like I love being a part 1239 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,720 Speaker 1: of this podcast because I love hearing how people do things, 1240 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,400 Speaker 1: and I also really am able to see way things 1241 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,200 Speaker 1: out and so for me instinctually it can get hard 1242 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, I'm feeling this, but maybe it's that, 1243 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,080 Speaker 1: but maybe it's this, but maybe it's that. You know, 1244 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,200 Speaker 1: It's it's so good that you say that, because as 1245 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,240 Speaker 1: a Libra, I have the same thing. I'm always wanting 1246 01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,200 Speaker 1: to know the end and the young things, the plus 1247 01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: in the minus the cost benefit ratio exactly. And for 1248 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 1: a new parent or you know, maybe a parent who 1249 01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:39,600 Speaker 1: had a kid nine ten years ago and it's going 1250 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,280 Speaker 1: to be doing it all over again and thinking maybe 1251 01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,360 Speaker 1: I'll do things different. You'll go to the library, get books. 1252 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,320 Speaker 1: Just it's you, guys. That's why I Abigail's brought up 1253 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,760 Speaker 1: so many amazing points in this podcast that will all 1254 01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,480 Speaker 1: be listed in the crib notes. Absolutely, and just I think, 1255 01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,320 Speaker 1: follow your instinct and follow your your inclination to learn 1256 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,520 Speaker 1: more about something, and ultimately you are the expert about 1257 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: your baby right nobody else's And it for me, resisting 1258 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,440 Speaker 1: the mommy wars brought on a lot of anxiety. I 1259 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 1: felt judged. Whether or not I was actually being judged, 1260 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,040 Speaker 1: I would feel anxious. Am I doing what's best for 1261 01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,240 Speaker 1: my kid? Can I be any better? But I've learned 1262 01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,520 Speaker 1: now almost ten years into this, to just to surrender 1263 01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:26,280 Speaker 1: and let it go and detached with love and find 1264 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,600 Speaker 1: acceptance with that uncertainty because ultimately, you know, we really 1265 01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:34,680 Speaker 1: can't control our kids. We can set no fee boundaries. 1266 01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:38,640 Speaker 1: I can try, but absolutely we can set healthy boundaries 1267 01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,360 Speaker 1: and you know, have a really good rhythm and routine 1268 01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,160 Speaker 1: in our day and all that and and um and 1269 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,600 Speaker 1: then ultimately I think, I truly think a lot of 1270 01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,080 Speaker 1: the personality just come into the world with it. Oh 1271 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:54,600 Speaker 1: for sure, to know that a lot of them just 1272 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,520 Speaker 1: kind of came out who they were really weird, they 1273 01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,120 Speaker 1: absolutely did. Yeah. I my mom and dad read this 1274 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,920 Speaker 1: book by t Berry Brazilton who just passed away at 1275 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,720 Speaker 1: age couple of months ago. Um. And he's you know, 1276 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,040 Speaker 1: a world famous guy, but he was like the pediatrician 1277 01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,240 Speaker 1: and the post spock Era who was started talking about 1278 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,920 Speaker 1: this attachment theory and all that and my parents, and 1279 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,720 Speaker 1: my mom was like, I don't know, it just made 1280 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,320 Speaker 1: so much sense and it was totally different with her 1281 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,360 Speaker 1: from what her parents had done with their six children. 1282 01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,360 Speaker 1: And that was that I saw that. I saw She's like, 1283 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,920 Speaker 1: she found a book. It lit a fire. You know, 1284 01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,840 Speaker 1: she didn't. She said she felt like the only person 1285 01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,200 Speaker 1: in the world who had ever had a baby. She 1286 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,800 Speaker 1: was an actress in New York. None of her friends kids, right, 1287 01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,640 Speaker 1: So I I took a cue from my mom, I think, 1288 01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,520 Speaker 1: and just following following my instinct, learning more about it, 1289 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,360 Speaker 1: and then ultimately just letting it go. And you know, 1290 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,840 Speaker 1: reading your baby and getting to know your baby and 1291 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,240 Speaker 1: trusting that you know what's best for him, and and 1292 01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,760 Speaker 1: sometimes I was on the floor hysterically crying, you know. 1293 01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the reality of it. No matter what 1294 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,920 Speaker 1: you choose, whichever ways, And just because you choose something 1295 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,200 Speaker 1: one day doesn't mean you can't change your mind another day. Also, 1296 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,520 Speaker 1: by the way, at some point you're all going to 1297 01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,320 Speaker 1: be crying on the floor, and at some point you're 1298 01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:08,960 Speaker 1: all going to be laughing your grasses off, and that's 1299 01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,960 Speaker 1: just seems to be motherhood. It is, And whether it's 1300 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,800 Speaker 1: a biological child or an adopted child or you know, 1301 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,080 Speaker 1: a grandchild or whatever, it's that same dynamic. You have 1302 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,880 Speaker 1: to just surrender into that powerlessness. I think I was 1303 01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,280 Speaker 1: actually just away without me and we had a nap 1304 01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,800 Speaker 1: in the bed with us for fun, and I felt 1305 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,760 Speaker 1: like I couldn't really like get into a comfortable position honestly, 1306 01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Like I was like, what about the blankets. I know 1307 01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,320 Speaker 1: we've already talked about this, but is that just something 1308 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,320 Speaker 1: in time that you sort of figure out the best 1309 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,680 Speaker 1: way position wise to sleep with your baby in the 1310 01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 1: bed or was there something that you know works every 1311 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,600 Speaker 1: time that's written in a book? Um, well, you know, 1312 01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,120 Speaker 1: I will refer you back to the Dr James McKenna 1313 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,320 Speaker 1: guidelines for Safeco sleeping because he gives good guidelines in 1314 01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,040 Speaker 1: general for everybody, but um and to avoid sids and 1315 01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,720 Speaker 1: all of that. But I think what I tell my 1316 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,160 Speaker 1: pay aatians too, especially if they're dealing with insomnia and 1317 01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the new baby's find whatever is comfortable for you first, 1318 01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,280 Speaker 1: exclusive of the baby. I personally am a side sleeper. 1319 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,560 Speaker 1: I've always left on my left side that's how I sleep, 1320 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: except my mom says, when I was a baby, I 1321 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:17,639 Speaker 1: slept on my tummy. Um, I, you know, find your pillow, blanket, 1322 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,760 Speaker 1: combo on the mattress, and then figure out how baby 1323 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,160 Speaker 1: can work around that in a safe way, so that, 1324 01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:25,720 Speaker 1: for example, with me, I would tuck the blanket under 1325 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,120 Speaker 1: my legs so it wasn't anywhere near baby um. And 1326 01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,599 Speaker 1: it also has to be a firm mattress. We can't 1327 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,640 Speaker 1: be dealing with a mushy mattress here or a big 1328 01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,519 Speaker 1: cushy mattress cover those those don't fit the safe sleeping guidelines. 1329 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,600 Speaker 1: So we had a super firm mattress, which is what 1330 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,760 Speaker 1: we liked anyway. So find where your comfortable spot is 1331 01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,320 Speaker 1: and then if that's it kind of is easiest on 1332 01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,920 Speaker 1: the side. Because this is all keeping in mind that 1333 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,040 Speaker 1: I learned how to nurse on my side very early 1334 01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:55,640 Speaker 1: once the baby. Remember came over to do a postpartum 1335 01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,400 Speaker 1: um tune up acupuncture session and she was like, oh, 1336 01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,519 Speaker 1: you could just lay right here and put the baby 1337 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,040 Speaker 1: right here, And I was like, you can lay down 1338 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,320 Speaker 1: and nurse. I only thought in the hospital, I had 1339 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:08,880 Speaker 1: only learned that there was a football hold or the 1340 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:13,640 Speaker 1: cradle hold you could, so you would be sleeping on 1341 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,880 Speaker 1: the side. You get comfortable and figure out how the 1342 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,680 Speaker 1: baby works into that. Because you're sleeping well and comfortably, 1343 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 1: so is the baby, right And I basically lined up 1344 01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: baby nose to nipple or he was a little bit 1345 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: lower um, and that was what was comfortable for me. 1346 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,320 Speaker 1: Babies are very resilient. They will pretty much sleep anywhere, 1347 01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:32,040 Speaker 1: and so the advantage of bed sharing was that, you know, 1348 01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,280 Speaker 1: we did travel to see family, or we went on vacation, 1349 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,800 Speaker 1: or we were in a hotel or when I would 1350 01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,600 Speaker 1: always do and it would just the baby would just 1351 01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,599 Speaker 1: sleep where we slept, you know. And and this whole 1352 01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:42,439 Speaker 1: idea of a lot of people think of family dead 1353 01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:44,400 Speaker 1: means you go to bed when the kid goes to bed. No, 1354 01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,519 Speaker 1: you know, when they were really little, at bedtime was 1355 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,400 Speaker 1: six o'clock. Sure, you would put the big kid down 1356 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,160 Speaker 1: to six o'clock and then I would like rush to 1357 01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,719 Speaker 1: do laundry and make dinner and all of that stuff. 1358 01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,120 Speaker 1: The dirty secret of parenting is that that window narrows, 1359 01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, and then you end up with so much 1360 01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,760 Speaker 1: night pen not right now all he goes to sleep 1361 01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,799 Speaker 1: at seven and I'm really my seven to ten windows 1362 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,439 Speaker 1: like huge for me right now. Actually it's like you 1363 01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,360 Speaker 1: know when I see my husband and like when I 1364 01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,360 Speaker 1: have a five glass of wine. Whatever. Well, the only 1365 01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,439 Speaker 1: thing is you get creative with where you are intimate 1366 01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:21,160 Speaker 1: with your partner, you know, I mean it's not people. 1367 01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:22,880 Speaker 1: You know, you have to especially when you have the 1368 01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,640 Speaker 1: second kid, and after the second kid comes, you know, 1369 01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,479 Speaker 1: it's super important not to lose that intimacy in that 1370 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: one at one time date night became crucial. This has 1371 01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:35,439 Speaker 1: been so eye opening and so wonderful. And you are 1372 01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm just so happy to be sitting with you in 1373 01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:43,040 Speaker 1: my crib on my couch. Um both you're just the best. 1374 01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,240 Speaker 1: And thank you so much for all of your wise 1375 01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:51,240 Speaker 1: words and advice and personal experience. UM, we really appreciate it. 1376 01:10:51,439 --> 01:11:02,920 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to 1377 01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:08,480 Speaker 1: today's episode. I want to hear from you. Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. 1378 01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,120 Speaker 1: Let me know. You can always find me at Katie's 1379 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:16,560 Speaker 1: Crib at Shonda land dot com. Katie's Crib is a 1380 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,639 Speaker 1: production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. 1381 01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,479 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I heart 1382 01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,120 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 1383 01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:29,760 Speaker 1: favorite shows. H