1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. Every day, 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: on our way to the grocery store, out jogging to 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: pick up your children from school, and route to work 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: and back on the elevator, do we ever take time 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: to look around? I try not to because I know 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: the statistics that a large percentage of people around me 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: are convicted fellows. They're own probation, they're on parole or 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: waiting to commit their very first crime or at least 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: first time they get caught. Every day, Killers amongst Us, 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: It is a very grim reality, grim but true. I mean, 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: I see Grace, thanks for being with us here at 13 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: k A Killers amongst Us. Annie lay beautiful, brilliant Missing 14 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: what clues if any are left behind? Take a listen 15 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: to our friend Sharon Alfonsei at ABC. Lee was last 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: seen Tuesday at ten in the morning. A surveillance camera 17 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: captured this picture of her entering the Yale lab where 18 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: she worked, but so far there are no pictures of 19 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: Lee leave it. She after pocketbook, her cell phone, everything 20 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: in the lab. Dog searched the building and investigators sorted 21 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: through dumpsters. Least picture was posted along Connecticut's highways. Late Friday, 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: investigators went through the lab building again, this time with 23 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: blueprints in hand. Sources say they were focusing on the 24 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: basement area looking for clues. Whatever it is. I just 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: hope that she's found safely on road home. And investigators 26 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: are reviewing the surveillance tapes of more than seventy cameras 27 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: in the area. They're going through each of those frame 28 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: by frame, But so far, university official says, there's been 29 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: no signs of foul play. We've gone over and over 30 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: why was it cole feet. No one in her family, 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: none of her friends heard from her. Nothing, The fiance 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: distraught just days before their wedding, with me an all 33 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it all. Darryl Cohan, 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: former felony prosecutor now defense attorney, named partner with Cohen, Cooper, Estep, 35 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: and Allen at CCA law dot com. Where now psychiatrists 36 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angela Arnold 37 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: catch this not only a psychiatrist, an MD, but with 38 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: a master's in cell and molecular biology. Wow. You can 39 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Former police 40 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: lieutenant in Haven Police Department, director of the Center for 41 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: Advanced Policing at University in me Haven's forensic science department 42 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: who worked this case. Lisa Daddio joining US death investigator, 43 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath 44 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. You can see him starting on 45 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan but 46 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: first to investigate a reporter with Newsday. You can find 47 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: him on Twitter at c h A y E. S. 48 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: Chase Matthew, Matthew, thank you for being with us. First 49 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: of all, cell phone and purse left behind. That tells 50 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: me a lot. But hey, Matthew, take a listen to 51 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: our friends at ABC. But on the Yale campus as 52 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: the days pass, concern deepens. Act just point her to 53 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: be okay. If she was taking in the middle of 54 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: the day, we could be too. Now. Professor who Annie 55 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: was supposed to actually attend a class about the time 56 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: that she wasn't missing, canceled that class and that professor 57 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: was questioned. But we are told by law enforcement sources 58 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: that professor had a rock solid alibi and is not 59 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: considered a suspect. Huh. Another quote rock solid alibi. Matthew 60 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: Chase again with US Newsday. You can find him at 61 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: Twitter at Chase Matthew. Matthew, let's talk about the fact 62 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: that the professor canceled the class and that's where she 63 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: was supposed to be. Who is this professor? Why was 64 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: he deigned to have a rock solid alb I just 65 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: like the fiance early on, I believe it was Friday, 66 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: as we had heard that he had been There had 67 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: been a professor who had been questioned. But it came 68 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: some outlets went with that story. We did not, because 69 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: we had heard that he could have this alibi. Um. 70 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: And you know, it just just like other things in 71 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: this case, it was a coincidence. There was the smoke alarm. Uh, 72 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: it just coincidentally went off. Her wedding day was a 73 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: couple of days away. Um. You know, there's this idea 74 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: that maybe she's a one runaway bride, but both of 75 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, wind up just not panning out, not panning 76 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: out at the get go. You know, why is it, 77 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen? That's so often when somebody is a suspect, 78 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: police say there are no suspects. Fancy and some magicians, 79 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: you don't see what I'm looking for because I tell 80 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: you I am not. Therefore there's no suspects. Therefore the 81 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: suspect for a suspect, hopefully let their guard down just 82 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: a little bit, tell you one little piece of information 83 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: that they might not have otherwise told you had their 84 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: guard been up. Simple been there forever and will stay 85 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: there forever. Jess Scott Morgan, you certainly know your way 86 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: around an investigation. The minute cops say to me they're 87 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: not a suspect, I start looking at them. Why are 88 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: they even bringing them up? Yeah? Exactly why you know? 89 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: Why do they bring them up? Because I can tell you, 90 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: even though the authorities are going to say that they 91 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: are not a suspect, keep in mind, all of the 92 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: Criminal Investigation Division that is involved directly involved in the 93 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: case are still at least peripherally going to keep their 94 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: eyes on this person, because, for one thing, when you 95 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: make a public statement like that, you can allow individuals 96 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: to let their guard down, and then they start doing 97 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: stupid stuff, and generally it's the stupid stuff that gets 98 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: criminals caught. In this particular case, they would say that, 99 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: oh man, Joe Scott, you're so right. Does anybody beside me? 100 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: Remember when Lacy Peterson went missing and somebody wisely stuck 101 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: a tracker on husband Scott Peterson's car, and he kept 102 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: going over and over and over to the San Francisco Bay, 103 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: thinking he was all alone and unseen, and stopping getting 104 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: out of the car and looking out on the bay 105 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: all the time knowing his wife an unborn baby. We're 106 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: at the bottom of the bay, waited down by cement blocks, 107 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: just hoping against hope they wouldn't pop up. Guess what 108 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: they did. Took a minute, but they did. That's the 109 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of behavior I'm talking about it. What is it, 110 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold? Why do criminals always, not always, but 111 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: a lot of times go back to the scene of 112 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: the crime. Why, Well, Nancy, you know, there's still human beings. 113 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: They have to feel a sense of guilt and some 114 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: sort of remorse possibly, and also I believe that they're 115 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: they're going back because they want to make sure that 116 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: nothing has floated up. They're in I'm not going to 117 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: say that, I was going to say they're in an 118 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: altered state of mind when they do this. I think 119 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: they know exactly what they're doing. I think that they're 120 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: going back to make sure that they're not going to 121 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: get caught if any evidence has turned up. Lisa daddyo 122 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: with me, who works the case missing brainy at Oh, 123 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: she's so pretty Annie Lay, Lisa, if you tell me 124 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: you're a the foreign police lieutenant in having a police department. 125 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: If you tell me the professor Sir didn't have some 126 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: kind of crush on Annie Lay and he had an 127 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: airtight alibi and the fiance has an airtight alibi. I'll 128 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: believe it, yes or no, Yes, believe it or not. 129 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of the things and everyone's 130 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: kind of brought it up a little bit that was 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: problematic in this case. Everybody was running some different angle 132 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: and everybody wanted to kind of be the first to 133 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: break the case. And we had lots of leaks in 134 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: the investigation because we were dealing with a multitude of 135 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: agencies working together. So things that we would never typically 136 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: had put out regarding the investigation we're getting put out. 137 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: Literally almost every movie made was being announced throughout the media, 138 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: and there were hundreds and hundreds of reporters camped out 139 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: and from the police department over at ten amass thought 140 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: at the enne's apartment. And so while things that typically 141 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have even come to the the forefront of 142 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: you would of people being considered a person of interest 143 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: would never have been out in the media. Everything in 144 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: this case kept getting magnified. So it was really causing 145 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: some issues for us. Her professor that had canceled the class, 146 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: her fiance Jonathan were knocked out of being suspects, like immediately, 147 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: that's how tight their alibis were. Okay, So coming from you, 148 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant right there, the jurisdiction who 149 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: worked this case, I believe it. So I've got to 150 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: take away. I've got to rule out my two first 151 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: persons of interest, and that would be the fiances, who 152 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: statistically you'll look at and the professor who suddenly canceled 153 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,119 Speaker 1: his class. I'm sure investigators thought, wow, he's so distraught, 154 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: he's canceling his class. Why is he so distraught? But 155 00:09:51,679 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: he's ruled out. He's got an alibi. It's not him. 156 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: Where is Annie late Joseph Scott Morgan? You just heard 157 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: Lisa daddy Estate. Everybody wanted to crack the case first. 158 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: You know what that tells me? That tells me contaminated 159 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: crime scene. Explain. Yeah, everybody when you involve yourself. I 160 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: hate the word first when it comes to an investigation, 161 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: because when you're moving forward on an investigation, if everybody's 162 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: sitting on the balls of their feet ready to pounce 163 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: on everything, that means that you run the risk of 164 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: not being able to take your time and methodically work 165 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: through it and listen, this is a passion driven event. 166 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about from the perspective of her family 167 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: and friends. People want to find this young woman. They 168 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: desperately want to find her because they love her, they 169 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: care about her, they're worried. But while you're searching, you're searching, 170 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: and people with all the good intentions in the world 171 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: can dig through things that can move, things that can touch, 172 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: things that can trample things and grind it into the ground. 173 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: And evidence, particularly in the realm in which we live today, 174 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: is so very tiny. It's so very fragile. The slightest 175 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: thing for us as investigators and professionals like Lisa, you know, 176 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: it can actually turn the tide of the case in 177 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: one millisecond. But if you have somebody that puts their 178 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: foot in the wrong place, or pick something up or 179 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: destroys it, it's gone. It's gone. Forever. You're actually giving 180 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: me a chill because you know, the other day I 181 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: guess it was who was it, John, David or Lucy. 182 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: They were going out in the door and I saw 183 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: law a long blonde hair on the back of their 184 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: their fleece, and I, you know, pulled it off and 185 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: dropped it. One hair. One hair proved that I had 186 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: been in contact with that fleece. Think back to the 187 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: Wayne Williams case in Atlanta, Multiple Bowl. Young boys and 188 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: men go missing, they're dead. A fiber A fiber and 189 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: this was brand new technology at that time and had 190 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: never been used in the United States before. The guy 191 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: who introduced it at trial helped hire me brilliant, brilliant 192 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: appellent lawyer. One fiber was the first one found under 193 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: a microscope. They're like, what is this? Guess what it was? 194 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: Carpet fiber out of the trunk of Wayne William's car. 195 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: Then they started looking for more fiber. Found fiber exactly 196 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: matching the carpet in Wayne William's home. And it was 197 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: a unique carpet wasn't made anymore. I want to think 198 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: it was something like orange shag. It was just let's 199 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: say something, Oh my goodness, I can't believe I remember that, 200 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: and you I don't find orange shag just every where. 201 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: They had a specific run of that carpet. They had 202 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: a specific run of that carpet that was unique, and 203 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: it was it was a very small run when they 204 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: were manufacturing. But one line, and I'll shut my mouth 205 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: after this, but I have to and uh, relative to this, 206 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: because as new as that technology was back then, back 207 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: in the early eighties, and with Wayne Williams, and we 208 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: moved forward to today where we have things like DNA 209 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: and then even you know, brought more specifically touched NA. 210 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: There's the old principle that goes back over one hundred years, 211 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: which is the edict that came down from Edmond Lecard 212 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: so many years ago, hundreds of years ago, where he 213 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: actually was able to look forward in time and he 214 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: understood logically his statement in that every contact leaves a trace, 215 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: so that no matter who you are, you're going to 216 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: leave something of yourself behind. And that applies not just 217 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: to bad guys, but that I hate to interrupt you 218 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: quoting up an old dead guy who happened to be brilliant, 219 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: I might say, and you're absolutely correct. I just want 220 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: to clear one thing up, because Jackie's really giving me 221 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: the hairy eyeball. I was still in undergrad when all 222 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: that was happening, and I only know about it because 223 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: I came to the office and read all the appellate files. 224 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I just want to be clear about that timing. Okay, 225 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: now that we've got that out of the way, here's 226 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: another thing. Let's analyze this. Oh, Daryl Cohen, you know 227 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: who I was talking to on the phone last night, 228 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: and the head of indictments that taught me how to 229 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: go through a file as thick or thin as it 230 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: may be, pick out the felonies and correctly drop an 231 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: indictment and take it to a grand jury. Who says, 232 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: by the way, that you have not called him as 233 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: I instructed you to do a month ago. That said, 234 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the Wayne Williams case. I'm thinking about Fiber, 235 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about hair, I'm thinking about what Lisa Daddio said. 236 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to crack the case first, and they were 237 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: all rushing through the building, so many odd circumstances converging 238 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: to make the perfect storm, and somewhere in that storm, 239 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Annie Lego's missing. But another thing about the cell phone 240 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: and the purse being left behind. Hold on, Darrel before 241 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: I get your conclusion, Lisa Daddio, you worked the case 242 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: where were her sale and purse? So Annie's cell phone 243 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: and purse were found in her actual office that was 244 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: not housed in ten Amaside, which is her research lab. 245 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: She was part of the medical building that was a 246 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: couple blocks away, and being a research student and you know, 247 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: kind of working underneath a full professor at the university, 248 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: her research professor. She left her items there and just 249 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: had her lab notebook with her her key card to 250 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: get in. And we know this obviously because we can 251 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: see her walking in to ten almost out, holding her 252 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: lab book and pretty much nothing else and then just 253 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, going about her day as she normally would 254 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: prior to leaving. And you know I would do the 255 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: same thing, Darryl. At our office in the District Attorney's office, 256 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: it's a huge office. It was in the old courthouse, 257 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: so you were mixed in with floors of courtrooms, the 258 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: clerk's office probate and the District Attorney's office, which how 259 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: was housed on three and then four floors being indictments 260 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: and the elected DA Mister Slayton, a few other things 261 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: in there, a whole level where the appellate lawyers and 262 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: others were, then a whole other level of the trial lawyers. 263 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: I would wander around wherever I had to go with 264 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: nothing but my key to my office, and I usually 265 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: carry my ID, but not always so I can see 266 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: her rushing from one building into amstyle with nothing but 267 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: a lab book and a key card, leaving her cell 268 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: phone and her purse at her station in her main building. 269 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: This is telling me all over again, this is not 270 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: a runaway bride. What's she going to use her key 271 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: card to buy food at McDonald's and Kroger. No, not 272 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: a runaway, not the fiancee, not the professor. And now 273 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: fear reigns across New Haven. Take a listen to our 274 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: cut eighteen. This is Randall Pinkston with CBS. Four days 275 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: after Lee's disappearance, the university's police chief sought to reassure 276 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: the Yale community. We have many physical security to help 277 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: us with this investigation, to include over seventy cameras. The 278 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: concern reaches far beyond the new Haven campus. The parents 279 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: are like calling in link checking you know, are you 280 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: save today? Authorities continued to work in the laboratory where 281 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: any Lee was last seen. Authorities reportedly have discovered bloody 282 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: clothing in the ceiling of the building. Published reports see 283 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: the clothing is not Lee's. Investigators are also pouring through 284 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: garbage at a hardwood waste facility looking for clues. Okay, 285 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: that's enough to throw wrench into the investigation to find 286 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: clothing that's bloody, and everybody's like, wow, we've found evidence, 287 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: but it's not her blood. It's from some other event. 288 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: They continue working and they're looking and looking and looking 289 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: as fear blankets the community. They're going through seventy camera 290 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: security footage. The concern then passes beyond the campus, parents 291 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: calling frantically to see if their children are safe. So 292 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, Yeah, I appreciate the fear throughout the community. 293 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: I get it. I appreciate the parents calling, But I'm 294 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: thinking about the investigation. The pressure is mounting. When you're 295 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: going on four days you can't find her, you can't 296 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: find her body. The pressure sets in at that point. 297 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: Do you believe people begin to get frantic within the 298 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: investigation and make decisions they wouldn't normally make. I think 299 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: when your back is against the wall and you don't 300 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: have enough leads or enough evidence, you're going to start 301 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: reaching out in every possible direction. And absolutely, Nancy, They're 302 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: going to be making assumptions, trying to see if this 303 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: works and travel to the end of this dead end, 304 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: back up and do it again. They're going to keep 305 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: looking because it doesn't make sense. Now, leaving your purse 306 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: as a female, that's unusual, but leaving your cell phone 307 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: that is almost unheard of. Nobody male or female, younger old, 308 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: takes two inches away from their wherever they are without 309 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: bringing that cell phone. So yes, they're going to be 310 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: very worried. And my question about this bloody clothing. Has 311 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: there been DNA done on it? Does some of her 312 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: DNA reach that bloody clothing or is it completely a 313 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: separate incident that has nothing whatsoever to do with her disappearance. 314 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: Investigators find bloody clothing in the building we're missing Yale 315 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: grad student anyway, lasting just before her wedding day, but 316 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: they say it's not Annie's blood, so therefore it's disconnected, 317 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, straight back out to you. Matthew Chase, investigative 318 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: reporter Newsday. You can find him at Twitter at Chase Matthew, Hey, 319 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: what's your name backwards? On Twitter? You know, to be honest, 320 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: Nancy's having it first name, last name was not available, 321 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: so I had to do it reverse. Well, hey, it works. 322 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: Necessity the mother of invention. So Matthew, there's just too 323 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: many coincidences piling up for me. You got the fire drill, 324 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: the unexpected fire drill, which Lisa Daddio says, she explained away. 325 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: You've got just before her wedding. You've got a boyfriend 326 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: with an airtight alibi, so say police. You've got this 327 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: professor who suddenly cancels classes he's so upset with an 328 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: airtight alibi, or so he says. Now there's bloody clothes 329 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: in the ceiling. Why are there bloody clothes in the ceiling? 330 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: And cops say it's not her blood? Did you just 331 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: like stop in your tracks at the time, Matthew Chase 332 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: when you hear bloody clothes were in the ceiling. But 333 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: I think this is where the you know, the coincidence 334 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: is in the bloody clothing. It's in a drop ceiling. 335 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: It's not any lace clothing. But you just correct to me. 336 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: Matthew Hayes from Newsday, and thank you they said it's 337 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: not Annie's clothes, not that it's not her blood. Is 338 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: that what you just said, Matthew Chase. It's not right, 339 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: not her clothes. That's a big difference. I thought they 340 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: said it's not her blood, so it would be totally 341 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: disconnected potentially. But you're just saying it's not her clothes 342 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: as opposed to not her blood. That's a subtle but 343 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: important distinction, straight to really renowned in her field. Lisa Daddio, 344 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: former police lieutenant New Haven Police on this case, now 345 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: the director of the Center for Advanced Policing at University 346 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: Newhaven's Forensic Science department. Lisa Daddio, I don't want to 347 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: fact check Matthew Chase right in front of him, but 348 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: is that correct? It's I thought it was not her blood, 349 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: but he's saying, no, it's not her clothing. Is that correct? Yes, 350 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: Matthew actually is correct on that. It's one of many 351 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: things that we started finding, but yeah, it wasn't He's right, 352 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: not in her clothing. See, that changes everything because that 353 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: coincidence is just you know, it's like taking out a 354 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: billboard on Third Avenue. You're standing on a crime scene 355 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: to suddenly find bloody clothes, even though they're not hers 356 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: stuffed up in the ceiling and Lisa Daddy, it wasn't 357 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: the ceiling of where she was last known to be 358 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: or some other ceiling. No, so it was actually the 359 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: drop ceiling of the lower level. It was not in 360 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: her lab room where her key card had last key 361 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: card at her untry, so as somebody else's clothes covered 362 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: in blood Lisa. Was the blood dried, Yes it was. 363 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: It was actually absorbed on the articles of they that 364 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: were found. If it had even been the least bit damp, 365 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: we would definitely know it had to be connected. But 366 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: the blood is dried, So is it another red herring 367 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: or is it for real? Matthew Chase? What's a drop ceiling? Yeah? 368 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: You know in older buildings the seal, they'll look up 369 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: and you'll see a ceiling. But in some buildings there 370 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: is a kile that you can lift up and you 371 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: can access electrical materials, electrical wires, and you know, in 372 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: this case, someone apparently lifted up the ceiling and put 373 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: in the clothes that we're just talking about. And how 374 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: were those found? Matthew Chase, Why would you think in 375 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: a place unrelated to any light within the building to 376 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: look in the ceiling. The police, the FBI, actually multiple 377 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: police agencies were on this case and they were looking everywhere. 378 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: So I of course was not in the basement, but 379 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: I assume that they were looking with the schematics. They're 380 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: looking in the ceiling, they're looking in every closet, they're 381 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: looking everywhere, and they make this discovery. Yeah, you're right in, 382 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: Matthew Chase, yet again investigative reporter in news Day. Now, 383 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: I get the investigative part of that, Lisa Daddy. Oh, 384 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: I know they came in with the blueprints for the building, 385 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: but what led them to search an unrelated drop ceiling? 386 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: So as with you, basically any crime scene that investigators 387 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: are processing or trying to to look for evidence, you're 388 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: going to look for looking areas where anything can be 389 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: hidden or discarded. So it's not unusual for them to 390 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: look in ceilings, look behind things, look under things, you know, 391 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: because we know that, I mean, one thing that's really important, Nancy, 392 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: to realize this is originally considered a missing person came 393 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: so the lab for a couple of days after any 394 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: went missing, was still open and operating under normal circumstances. 395 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: Contamination oh yeah, and so you know, again the first 396 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: i'd say probably close to forty eight hours or so ish. 397 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: You know, it was being treated as a missing person case, 398 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: possibly a runaway bride case, so there was no reason 399 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: to lock the building down and you know, stop people 400 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: from going in and out. So knowing that investigators when 401 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: they're trying to find evidence, and they started finding things 402 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: obviously going you know, like on that day three ish 403 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: mark that it expanded their search to look where evidence 404 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: could be concealed. And so you know, the drop ceiling 405 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: in the lab, all the different boxes that were in 406 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: there that had contained discarded gloves and lab because like biohazar, 407 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, obviously boxes and just looking everywhere for where 408 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: some type of evidence to make a link, to make 409 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: a connection could be found. And then a break in 410 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: the case. Take a listen to Randall Pingston CBS. It 411 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: was the discovery that everyone dreaded. After the exhausted search 412 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: using sniffer dogs and high tech equipment, last night, authorities 413 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: announced they had found remains, and even before they had 414 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: made positive identification, they say they believe it is indeed 415 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: the body of twenty four year old Annie Lay five 416 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: days after any lay vanished. State police found a body 417 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: in the building where she was last seen alive. Shortly 418 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: after police made the announcement, Yale's president offered his condolences. 419 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: He hearts go out to the family of Annie Lee, 420 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: to her fiance, to her friends. The family and fiance 421 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: and friends now must suffer the additional ordeal of waiting 422 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: for the body to be positively identifiation Who murdered Annie 423 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: lay As the family waits for a positive identification, knowing 424 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: in their hearts who else could it be? Nancy Grace 425 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: Killers amongst us son you know, goodbye friend,