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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress, Whipsmarties. Today we are joined

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Speaker 1: by someone I have been hoping to interview for so

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Speaker 1: many years. An activist that I look up to, a

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Speaker 1: leader who has shifted the conversation around women and girls

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Speaker 1: around the world, a woman who won the Nobel Peace

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Speaker 1: Prize at the age of seventeen, who also happens to

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Speaker 1: be a hell of a lot of fun, very funny,

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Speaker 1: and on her own journey of reclamation of her full self.

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Speaker 1: Today we're sitting down with Malala Yusefsi. She made the

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Speaker 1: world listen at just fifteen when under Taliban rule she

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Speaker 1: was blogging for the BBC about her life under occupation,

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Speaker 1: fighting for a right to education, and she was targeted

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Speaker 1: and shot. She survived an assassination attempt and refused to

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Speaker 1: be silenced, and since her voice has shaken governments, inspired millions,

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Speaker 1: and truly changed the conversation about girls' education worldwide. Now,

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Speaker 1: Malala is twenty eight, living in the UK with her husband,

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Speaker 1: and she's built a life that blends global advocacy and

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Speaker 1: personal growth. And I want to talk to her about

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Speaker 1: what her life is like away from the cameras and

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Speaker 1: the crowds, how she's begun to remind herself that she's

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Speaker 1: allowed to just be a girl. Sometimes she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be a saint, she doesn't always have to be

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Speaker 1: a leader, but she always will be someone that we

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Speaker 1: all look up to. Her new book, Finding My Way

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Speaker 1: is an absolutely gorgeous examination of this journey. She reveals

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Speaker 1: never before shared private struggle that have existed behind her

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Speaker 1: public courage, how she's grappled with survivor's guilt, how she's

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Speaker 1: navigated the pressures of global fame, and how she's still

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Speaker 1: trying to make a difference in a world that seems

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Speaker 1: more resistant to change, perhaps than ever in our lifetimes.

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Speaker 1: And while she may be one of the most incredible

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Speaker 1: figureheads we have for women in the world, like the

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Speaker 1: rest of us, she's just a girl trying to figure

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Speaker 1: it out one day at a time. Let's talk all

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Speaker 1: things with Malala. Well, hello, and thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me on the show today.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: How is the book tour going.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a lot of work, but I'm so excited.

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Speaker 2: It's fun. Yeah, and I'm so excited to go to

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Speaker 2: different CITs in the US, UK, Europe and meet the

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Speaker 2: people who are going to enjoy reading this book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. I've been thinking so much in advance

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Speaker 1: of today because I normally like to ask people when

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Speaker 1: we sit down together to begin, given anyone I sit

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Speaker 1: with is usually doing something incredible in the world. As

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Speaker 1: you are, you know, audiences will know you for your

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Speaker 1: body of work, your activism, who you are as an

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Speaker 1: adult in the world. And I always like to go

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Speaker 1: backwards with guests and find out about the through lines

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Speaker 1: and the connections to who they were in their youth.

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Speaker 1: You know, the traits they grew up with that maybe

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Speaker 1: tie to who they are today. And most often I

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Speaker 1: ask people to take me back to if they could

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Speaker 1: imagine rather an interaction with themselves at ten. But it

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Speaker 1: really sort of took me aback thinking about that for you,

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Speaker 1: because you were ten and when the Taliban took over

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Speaker 1: the Sa Sally in Pakistan, and just thinking about sitting

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Speaker 1: in a room with you, going, oh my god, what's

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Speaker 1: that going to be like for her? I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you'd rather go back to maybe your eight year old

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Speaker 1: self or your nine year old self, is there joy

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Speaker 1: when you think about your youth pre that shift that

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Speaker 1: you'd rather begin within.

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Speaker 2: We went through a very tough time when the Taliban

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Speaker 2: took over. This was when I understood how valuable pieces

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Speaker 2: and how lucky those of us are who get the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to get an education and to follow our dreams,

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Speaker 2: because the Taliban denied all of that to women and

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Speaker 2: girls in my hometown. But I have treasured every moment

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Speaker 2: that I had with my friends, the moments I had

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Speaker 2: a in Swat Valley before the Taliban took over. We

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Speaker 2: were surrounded by beautiful mountains. We lived by the rivers,

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Speaker 2: and I loved being closer to nature. But you know,

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Speaker 2: even during the Taliban time, when we would secretly go

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Speaker 2: to school, hide our box and try to make sure

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Speaker 2: that the Taliban never caught us, we would treasure the laughter,

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Speaker 2: the giggles with friends. So it's still a memorable moment

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Speaker 2: for me when I think about girls having dreams and

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Speaker 2: still trying to learn even when scary men try to

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Speaker 2: stop them. And after we saw what life looks like

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Speaker 2: when you do not have peace, when you are hearing

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Speaker 2: bombings and attacks, you are internally displaced, you you lose

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Speaker 2: all of that is that after that, we treasure every

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Speaker 2: moment of peace, so we were just so grateful for it.

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Speaker 2: I do have memories, but of course, you know, I

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Speaker 2: sort of became an activist at a very young age,

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Speaker 2: so life did not feel like that of a normal

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Speaker 2: child that I was before. It did change significantly, but

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Speaker 2: I still try to have normal experiences as much as

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Speaker 2: I could.

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Speaker 1: That's really special. It's interesting to think about for you

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Speaker 1: in that timeline because to your point, you have all

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Speaker 1: of the memories before. It wasn't like you were three

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Speaker 1: or four years old, so you didn't know what you'd lost.

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Speaker 1: Do you think at the time you were able to

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Speaker 1: reflect on pre and post takeover? Or was the fearful

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Speaker 1: adventure of continuing to pursue your education? Was that really

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Speaker 1: central to your world? And now as an adult, you

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Speaker 1: can look back and really see the contrast in the

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Speaker 1: pre and post takeover.

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Speaker 2: I you know, I remember the early days of growing

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Speaker 2: up in Swat Valley and my time with my two

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Speaker 2: younger brothers. We used to like fight all the time,

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Speaker 2: but we loved each other as well. I loved watching television.

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Speaker 2: I loved my studies. I was obsessed with school. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the girls in my hometown valued education because they knew

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Speaker 2: that it is rare to have a supportive father and

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Speaker 2: a supportive family that allow you to be in school.

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Speaker 2: So there are already many challenges that girls were facing

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Speaker 2: and access to education. But when we saw the most

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Speaker 2: extreme form of oppression against women where gun were armed.

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Speaker 2: Gunmen try to impose these rules on women that they

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Speaker 2: cannot have jobs, they cannot leave their homes, and girls

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Speaker 2: cannot go to school. That's when we realized that education

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Speaker 2: is such a powerful tool that the people who do

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Speaker 2: not want to see women empowered, they take education first

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Speaker 2: from women. So, you know, I remember the before time

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Speaker 2: that we had in Swa Valley and I and you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes I wish like those days had lasted for a

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Speaker 2: lot longer. Now there is peace, you know, after like

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Speaker 2: two three years of terrorism, a military operation was done.

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Speaker 2: People returned to their homes after their displacement. But it's

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Speaker 2: still I feel like takes a while that it feels

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Speaker 2: like it still takes a while that you know, for

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Speaker 2: people to recover from from what had happened.

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Speaker 1: Of course, well, because the the trauma, it changes your

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Speaker 1: olympic system, your ability to walk outside in a care

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Speaker 1: free manner to look at the mountains or watch the

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Speaker 1: water in the river, to to feel a lightness of

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Speaker 1: being when it's taken from you. Yeah, I think it

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Speaker 1: takes so much longer to get back than the theft

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Speaker 1: takes to happen. Yeah, when you talk about knowing, you know,

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Speaker 1: if these men wanted so bad to steal women's empowerment

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Speaker 1: so badly that they would try to steal education from

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Speaker 1: girls as young as ten years old younger, were you

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Speaker 1: and your classmates while you were fighting to study in secret?

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Speaker 1: Were you talking about it in real time? Were your relatives,

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Speaker 1: your mothers, your aunties, like, were the women in your

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Speaker 1: life telling you why they were particularly so aggressive with

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Speaker 1: the women and girls.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was our normal day to day conversation to

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Speaker 2: talk about what new rules the Taliban are now announcing

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Speaker 2: restricting women from something else, And you know, people try

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Speaker 2: to make sense of it, but it just made no

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Speaker 2: sense because the Taliban would sometimes defend it as an

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Speaker 2: Islamic rule, but everybody said that, you know, we're already

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Speaker 2: an Islamic country, and in Islam, education is not only

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Speaker 2: a right, but it's actually a duty you are supposed

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Speaker 2: to learn, and it's an equal opportunity for both men

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Speaker 2: and women, So how can the Taliban be bringing their

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Speaker 2: own extreme patriarchal norms into this. So we were also

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Speaker 2: challenging them in misusing Islam. So yes, you know there

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Speaker 2: were people who were challenging it. But you know, the

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Speaker 2: Taliban were threatening people who spoke out against them. The

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Speaker 2: month of January two thousand and nine was very scary

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Speaker 2: because girls were not allowed to be in school. They

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Speaker 2: were bombing schools, and they were targeting people who spoke out.

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Speaker 2: So I was more worried about my father at the

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Speaker 2: time because I was only eleven years old. I did

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Speaker 2: not know that they would come and attack a girl

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Speaker 2: or a child. But I was more concerned about my

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Speaker 2: father because I knew that a lot of activists who

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Speaker 2: had spoken against the Taliban had been attacked. Every night,

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Speaker 2: I would pray for my father to be safe.

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Speaker 1: Of course, because his defending you put a target on

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Speaker 1: his back as well.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and he was a very strong advocate for girls' education.

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Speaker 2: He spoke out for women, so you know, they see

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Speaker 2: men who become allies of women as a threat.

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Speaker 1: Of course, of course, because in a fundamentalist or violently

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Speaker 1: patriarchal culture, men who ally themselves with us are traders

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Speaker 1: to the patriarchy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, one hundred percent, And it just reminds us

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Speaker 2: how powerful and important the role of men is to

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Speaker 2: help dismantle patriarchy. You know, I tell people that I

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Speaker 2: was able to speak out, be in front of a

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Speaker 2: camera and tell my story to the world because my

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Speaker 2: father did not stop me. He supported me in doing that.

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Speaker 2: So many other girls in my school, in my community

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Speaker 2: wanted to tell their story, but their brothers or their

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Speaker 2: fathers stop them. The men stopped them, and it's so

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Speaker 2: important for people to know that. You know, It's like,

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Speaker 2: oftentimes it's the men who clip the wings of their daughters,

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Speaker 2: of the things in their community. So oftentimes, you know,

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Speaker 2: my dad has asked what he did for his daughter,

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Speaker 2: and he says, don't ask me what I did, but

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Speaker 2: ask me what I did not do. I did not

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Speaker 2: clip her wings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love your dad. It's really very cool. Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky to have such a cool dad. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a big part of it, because obviously,

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Speaker 1: as women, we understand what our gendered issues are, and

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Speaker 1: if we're just talking to women about it, it's like

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Speaker 1: we're yelling in an echo chamber. We need men to

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Speaker 1: break through the issues with us. Yes, I wonder for

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Speaker 1: you. You know you mentioned that you had everything changed so early.

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Speaker 1: You know you wish you'd had more of those pre years,

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Speaker 1: a longer runway of normal childhood as it were, you know,

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Speaker 1: to go through what you went through, the fact that

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Speaker 1: by eleven you were an activist. You know, you were

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Speaker 1: blogging for the BBC. And I'm sure now you understand

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Speaker 1: the bravery that that took, both on your own part

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Speaker 1: and your father's part, certainly your family's part. Did you

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Speaker 1: know then, or as a young girl who loved school,

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Speaker 1: who was pissed someone was telling you you couldn't go,

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Speaker 1: did it just feel like the right outlet.

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Speaker 2: It's a fair question that if you are experiencing such

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Speaker 2: a scary situation and you know that the Taliban could

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Speaker 2: target you, why would you speak out? But I always

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Speaker 2: remind people that I was more scared of a life

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Speaker 2: without an education. Yes, that future was dark, and I

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Speaker 2: had seen how so many girls had lost that opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, my life took a whole different trajectory,

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Speaker 2: so that you know, I could never imagine that I

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Speaker 2: would be like living in the UK and I would

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Speaker 2: be going to Oxford and all of that. My dream

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Speaker 2: was just to continue going to that local school that

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Speaker 2: the Taliban wanted to close. And so yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: when when I finished my graduation at Oxford it was

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, I felt like I had won a battle,

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Speaker 2: that this was a personal victory. You know, I did

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Speaker 2: not need to make any announcement or anything, but I

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Speaker 2: took a moment with myself and I told myself, you

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Speaker 2: have won. You completed your education. This is what the

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Speaker 2: Taliban did not want to see. And you are living that.

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Speaker 1: Moment well and living it not only as someone who

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Speaker 1: escaped a system and who escaped a real vacuum of

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Speaker 1: violence in a time, but I mean you literally survived

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Speaker 1: an assassination attempt. Yes, that's not something most people go through,

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Speaker 1: let alone most fifteen year old girls. I know, that's

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Speaker 1: obviously a story You've had to reflect on a lot.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing I ever want to do is

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Speaker 1: to ask women to constantly relive their trauma for maybe

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Speaker 1: the five people living under a rock who don't know

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Speaker 1: about it. But one of the things that I'm fascinated

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Speaker 1: by is actually how we heal. Yes, and I've been

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Speaker 1: so moved by the way you've spoken about how there

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Speaker 1: was a time, you know where as the human brain

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Speaker 1: does your brain work to protect you and you couldn't

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Speaker 1: recall a lot. Yes, and you've worked on taking back

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Speaker 1: I would say, parts of those memories and being able

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Speaker 1: to move past them after this many years of doing

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Speaker 1: that sort of self work. How does it sit with

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Speaker 1: you now? How do you feel now? Are you are

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Speaker 1: you more desirous of saying I've spoken about it and

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Speaker 1: I'd like to move on, or are you in a

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Speaker 1: place where you feel like there are lessons you might

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Speaker 1: want to offer to other survivors of trauma.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember my last day of school in Pakistan.

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Speaker 2: I'm with my friends. I hope I can go to

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Speaker 2: school the next day, and then something happens like there's

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Speaker 2: there's just like too many memories, too many visuals, and

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Speaker 2: and it's it's just a very confusing time. But I

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Speaker 2: think about a week later, I wake up in a

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Speaker 2: hospital in a different country. I do not see a

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Speaker 2: single brown face. Everybody is speaking a different language. I

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Speaker 2: have a tube in my neck. I am processing what

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Speaker 2: had happened. I'm looking for for my family. I'm just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, who has brought me here? What happened. At

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Speaker 2: the time, I was just trying to process this adjustment

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Speaker 2: to a new culture, restarting a whole new life, and

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Speaker 2: I felt like I did not have any time that

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Speaker 2: I needed to recover quickly, and I healed through the

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Speaker 2: surgeries quickly as well. We were offered mental health support

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Speaker 2: as well. There was a therapist, but this was the

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Speaker 2: first time I was hearing about it. You know, in

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Speaker 2: Pakistan it's often associated with with like, you know, people

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Speaker 2: who like go crazy and and so I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, what do you mean therapy? I sort of

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Speaker 2: rolled my eyes and I did not get therapy at

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Speaker 2: the time. But seven years later, in college, that whole

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Speaker 2: shooting experience was triggered by a bong incident, and that

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Speaker 2: that night was the scariest night I had ever experienced

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Speaker 2: because I felt that I reallived it, that the memory,

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Speaker 2: the flashbacks, everything that I had suppressed in my memory,

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Speaker 2: or maybe that my brain had just to protect me.

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Speaker 2: I tried to, you know, I try to remember, but

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Speaker 2: I couldn't remember anything, and suddenly everything was right in

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Speaker 2: front of my eyes. That night, I froze I could

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Speaker 2: not do anything helpless, and as much as I tried,

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Speaker 2: I you know, I started getting so scared. I could

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Speaker 2: not even close my eyes because I thought if I

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Speaker 2: closed my eyes, I would die. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: felt that maybe maybe I remembered, maybe I had seen

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Speaker 2: what the Taliban did to me, and everything changed for

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Speaker 2: me since because I could not get myself out of

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Speaker 2: the trauma, I felt that it was something that was

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Speaker 2: left undone. It was an unfinished part of my recovery.

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Speaker 2: I always associated my recovery with the physical injuries, and

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Speaker 2: once a surgery was done, I said, I am fully recovered.

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Speaker 2: Everything is done. But this was that that open wound

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Speaker 2: that we did not that we did not heal. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, After months of panic attacks, anxiety, PTSD, I

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Speaker 2: finally started therapy. And it was only when a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine told me that I should see a therapist.

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Speaker 2: She could see that I was not being myself and

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Speaker 2: she told me that a lot of students get that,

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Speaker 2: and she herself sees a therapist. That gave me a

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Speaker 2: little comfort that I am not the only awkward one.

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Speaker 2: And I was hoping that maybe I'll get some medication

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Speaker 2: in the therapy. Right that here are my problems, prescribe

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Speaker 2: me something, fix it fast. Yes, yeah, they told me

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a process.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's incredible. And now for our sponsors. It is interesting,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. How stigma it really worms its way into

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Speaker 1: the way we feel about ourselves. And how lucky you

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Speaker 1: were in the moment that this horrible thing was happening

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Speaker 1: to you, that you had the great gift of friends

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Speaker 1: say no, we so many people go to therapy. We

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Speaker 1: need it, you know. Realizing that there's stigma about it

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Speaker 1: means that I talk about therapy on the podcast so much.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows I'm obsessed with my therapist. He's like one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite people on the planet. And what I've realized,

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Speaker 1: I think, especially for women who love education, for women

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Speaker 1: who are activists, when you are a problem solver, you

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Speaker 1: often look out at the world and think, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to dedicate my time to this cause and these people,

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Speaker 1: and I'll show up at this thing and I'll lend

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Speaker 1: my voice to that thing over there. And it takes

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Speaker 1: someone saying you can also advocate for yourself. You can

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Speaker 1: also invest in yourself. You can also work through the

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Speaker 1: kind of critical thinking you've become an expert at for

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Speaker 1: your own well being. And I find it really interesting

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Speaker 1: how long it takes us to turn that sort of

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Speaker 1: love of the world world back on ourselves. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: what an amazing thing that you got to begin to

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and now I embrace therapy as part of my journey.

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Speaker 2: Initially I was taking it as a one off treatment,

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Speaker 2: but I realized I need it. I need it more

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Speaker 2: because I you know, I thought I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm sort of done with it. But then

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Speaker 2: a few years later, I'm in South Africa and I

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Speaker 2: speak about the situation of women and girls in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: how the Taliban are restricting them from work and any

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Speaker 2: political and public presence, and girls are banned from education.

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Speaker 2: So when I spoke at the Nelson Mandela lecture, I

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Speaker 2: finished all my interviews, and you know, in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night, I wake up from my sleep and

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Speaker 2: I am like shaking and shivering, and I thought I

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Speaker 2: was going to die. It was. It was a proper

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Speaker 2: panic attack. And my husband was there with me. He

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Speaker 2: supported me and was holding my hand. But I realized

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Speaker 2: that that that there is still so much that I

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Speaker 2: have left unaddressed. So I went back to my therapist.

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Speaker 2: And now I'm like, Okay, it's gonna stay with me.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep seeing my therapist more regularly, and we

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Speaker 2: should normalize it. I think that's the most important thing.

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Speaker 1: I think, especially you know, we're at least here. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how it feels to you in the UK,

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Speaker 1: but in the US we're so obsessed with physical fitness.

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Speaker 2: That's also good.

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Speaker 1: Well sure, but for me, I'm like, if you go

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Speaker 1: to the gym, if you know you should go for

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Speaker 1: a walk after dinner to stabilize your blood sugar, your

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Speaker 1: brain needs a walk too. You know your brain needs

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Speaker 1: the gym. And so I try to reframe when I

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Speaker 1: speak about mental health. I try to reframe therapy as

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Speaker 1: as your brain gym or your mental health care. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know it's healthcare.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think even that for me has done something

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Speaker 1: where you know, Tuesdays at nine am, that's WoT and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, it's my it's my brain pill oates.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, that's so helpful because I remember feeling

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Speaker 2: just guilty for simply wanting to take a break or

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Speaker 2: get a nap or go out for a walk, because

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Speaker 2: I thought when you are an activist, you're supposed to

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Speaker 2: give twenty four to seven or rather twenty five hours,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the extra time you can give to

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Speaker 2: to to the work, to the mission. And I would

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Speaker 2: you know, I was always tired and exhausted and I

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Speaker 2: was overwhelmed. And I think that's why these things like

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Speaker 2: anxiety and PTSD and panic attacks like started happening, because

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Speaker 2: it all piles up. It adds to it that, you know.

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Speaker 2: It was only when I got married that I started

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Speaker 2: considering like this, you know, rest time and sports and

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Speaker 2: just relaxing more seriously. So, yes, I do go to

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Speaker 2: the gym. I do weight lifting and all of that

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Speaker 2: and becoming a proper gym bro, which I love, or

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Speaker 2: a gym.

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Speaker 1: Sust okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: And I do try like new sports whatever that is.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to be perfect at it and uh

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Speaker 2: and of course I can never be good at it,

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Speaker 2: but I'm like, it's just about paying and enjoying the sport.

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Speaker 2: But more than that, it is giving myself some time

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Speaker 2: to rest and recharge myself because I would not be

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Speaker 2: able to deliver my best on the things that I

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Speaker 2: care about. Yes, if I do not look after myself.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely That's been such a lesson for me too. And

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Speaker 1: I think it is that that activists sort of motivation

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Speaker 1: or heart, where you think, I've got to give, give, give, give, give. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm so privileged in my relative life. Yeah, I've gotta

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Speaker 1: I've got to always be doubling down. And eventually I

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Speaker 1: realized between that and the way I've been cultured to

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Speaker 1: perform as a as an actor. And I've learned a

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Speaker 1: lot of this with my partner because of the way

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Speaker 1: she was cultured to perform as an athlete. When you

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Speaker 1: constantly think you have to be at the top of

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Speaker 1: your game, constantly have to give every moment to excellence

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Speaker 1: or community or the speech or the flight or the

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Speaker 1: book or the thing, you lose your sense of wonder.

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Speaker 1: And when you stop playing, you also stop reparenting that

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Speaker 1: inner child. To be able to give some play and

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Speaker 1: adventure back to yourself, especially in the way that it

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Speaker 1: was taken from you in your story, in your life,

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Speaker 1: it's so restorative for the soul. And we also our lives,

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Speaker 1: our careers. They're so serious. Sometimes I'm like, God, I'm

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Speaker 1: so sick of being serious. I need a break. I

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Speaker 1: want to go to something stupid, I have to remember

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Speaker 1: that it's okay to not be good at everything. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I also caveat that by saying I'm the

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Speaker 1: asthmatic in the family. Like I'm not a sport. I

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Speaker 1: love to watch sports, I can't play them, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not good at them either. But it does take some learning,

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Speaker 1: right to be free to play a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now I see sleep, physical health, and mental health

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Speaker 2: as part of my activist life, and I know I

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Speaker 2: can perform best in my activism if I am counting

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Speaker 2: all of these things as part of my work. They

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Speaker 2: are not something off work. This is not an off

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Speaker 2: work activity. Like you have to count in your sleep,

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Speaker 2: you have to count in your nutrition, you have to

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Speaker 2: count in your mental and physical health, and just recognize

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Speaker 2: that this is going to help you deliver best in

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Speaker 2: the work that you do.

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Speaker 1: It makes me so curious. I've wondered this for you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to get the one on one

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Speaker 1: time because usually I see you at something enormous, It's

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Speaker 1: like this is cool, but yes, everyone's shuttled in and out.

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Speaker 1: I was wondering for you when I think about you

435
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: know the timeline of your age. Yes again, blogging by

436
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: eleven for the BBC going through your incident at fifteen,

437
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, waking up in a new

438
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: country and having to adjust to essentially the life of

439
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: a political refugee. Do you ever feel like did you

440
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: ever feel maybe this is what you're reclaiming now? Did

441
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: you ever feel like you could just be a girl,

442
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: a kid?

443
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: Like?

444
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: Were you ever allowed to have a bad day or

445
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: be in a bad mood?

446
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: I wished for it, okay, but I could not find

447
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: an opportunity to be myself. So when I started a

448
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: school in the UK, I was in an all girls school,

449
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: and I had to be in school like for the

450
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: whole day almost and then come home and my parents

451
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: would just say, you know, stay at home. Or then

452
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 2: I would be traveling for different events and conferences and

453
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: be surrounded by people who are like thirty forty years

454
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: older than me and talking about really serious things and

455
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: sharing my story. But at home, I remember my parents

456
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: wouldn't even allow me to go to my friend's evening

457
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: party or just you know, friends, school hangouts and all

458
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: of these things which like basic things. We just go

459
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 2: for a pizza party or something like that. But my

460
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: parents were always worried I remember like one time there

461
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: were there was just like New Year's Eve fireworks at

462
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: one of my friend's house and I couldn't go, and

463
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: so my friend just recorded some videos on Snapchat and

464
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: she sent it to me. So that's how I was

465
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: trying to be a part of it. By the end

466
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: of my school life, I had only made one best friend.

467
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: I was it.

468
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: And it was also, I think just purely by chance,

469
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: because she fell out with her other best friend, and

470
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: I was just sort of like a side character. She's like, okay,

471
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: you know, like you can be with me, But I

472
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: rarely talked. I couldn't really be myself. I missed the

473
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: old Malala that I was in Pakistan, mischievous, funny, loud.

474
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: I loved cracking jokes, and you know, I was just

475
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: I had just so many friends, and I remember I

476
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: was like there was a part of me who was

477
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: an activist but still myself, and somehow now I'm supposed

478
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: to be like, you know, this grown saintly kind of

479
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: activist who has to meet this expectation of like being

480
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: the same person. She cannot learn about herself, like she

481
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: has to be this fixed version of herself now. So

482
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: then came an opportunity where I thought, you know what,

483
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: maybe I could experience things a bit differently, And that

484
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: was when I was about to join college.

485
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: Wow, and how did you decide on Oxford?

486
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: I mean it was my dream place to go to.

487
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: I had heard about Oxford as a kid. And the

488
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: university is so beautiful. It has many colleges, old libraries.

489
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: It is by the Childwell River, so you're just so

490
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: close to nature. And the college that I selected for

491
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: myself is called Lady Margaret Hall and it was the

492
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: first women's college at Oxford. Women were not allowed to

493
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: go into any other library or colleges, which was, you know,

494
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: just one hundred and twenty something years ago, so not

495
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: that long ago that this was a reality for women

496
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: even in the UK US. So yeah, I knew that

497
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: college was the place where I wanted to study. It's

498
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: really beautiful and the Pakistani female Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto

499
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: also went to that college, so many reasons for why

500
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: I should. Yeah, that's why I thought I should consider it.

501
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: It's really really cool. And now a word from our

502
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will

503
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: too interesting too. To think about the timelines you know,

504
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: when you experienced present and active oppression, suppression in your

505
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: home country in your childhood. Then even you know, a

506
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: decade later, to be walking the halls box for half

507
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: a decade later, and to know, oh, there was a

508
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: time when I wouldn't have been allowed here either. You know,

509
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: when you talked at the top of the hour about

510
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: what the Taliban goes after, Why it's girls' education, why

511
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: it's the empowerment of women, you know what those systems

512
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: look like. That patriarchy, if you will, the bastardization of

513
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: faith to be fundamentalist and actually against what the book says.

514
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's holding up a pretty terrifying mirror for

515
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: me in what we're dealing with today in America. The

516
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: fundamental bastardization of Christianity, even though we're not a theocracy,

517
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 1: the architects of Project twenty twenty five want us to be,

518
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, the banning of books, the destabilization of women's

519
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: roles in society, their desire to remove not only our

520
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: bodily autonomy, but literally remove us from the halls of

521
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: power government. You know, it's so surreal to see that

522
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: we keep making the same mistakes. You know, you think

523
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: about one hundred and twenty years ago at Oxford. Well,

524
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: we learned that lesson, and how it's different. We've learned

525
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: these lessons before. Yes, you know so much of what's

526
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: going on in America today. We fought world wars over

527
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: this stuff and somehow we're back. And I wonder, as

528
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: you're balancing this really healthy sphere of your personal growth

529
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: and your own joy and your own play, how do

530
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: you counterbalance the imperative mission of continuing to show up

531
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: and say to people like Ding, Ding, Ding, we've been

532
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: talking about this. We're going in the wrong direction.

533
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: You know.

534
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: How do you not just out there is an activist bit,

535
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: but like, yes, you the girl on the character across

536
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: from me, how do you keep yourself feeling fortified and

537
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: not losing hope or falling prey to just frustration that

538
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: we could be this stupid again.

539
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I think we all are feeling the

540
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: same way in many parts of the world. I feel

541
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: the exact same way when I think about the situation

542
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: of women and girls in Afghanistan right now. They're living

543
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: under a system of gender apartheid imposed by the Taliban,

544
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: who are punishing women and girls for simply tearing to

545
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: get their education or be at work. The Taliban have

546
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: made it a crime for women to have these equal rights.

547
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: They an Afghan girl has not seen a classroom for

548
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: the past four and a half years. When I think

549
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 2: about you know what's happening, it breaks my heart. And

550
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: you're very right. You know, in times like these, you

551
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: wonder whether you should be celebrating success or you should.

552
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: Be screaming into the wad, screaming.

553
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: Into the void, or at the people who are imposing

554
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: these things in the yes, like you know, why have

555
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: we lost humanity? Like what is happening? Why are people

556
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 2: putting the girl's education issue aside? You know that people

557
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: are normalizing relations with the Taliban and women are not

558
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: allowed in the rooms. You know, women are are erased.

559
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: Women are actually erased from from public life or or

560
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: any existence, which is really scary because it's not just

561
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: about women and girls in Afghanistan. It is about what

562
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: message are we sending to women and girls everywhere about

563
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: our commitment to this so called gender equity or feminism.

564
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: You know, these words fall short. They mean nothing if

565
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: we cannot act on them. When an injustice is happening

566
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 2: right in front of our eyes. I started my activism

567
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: at a young age, so I was an idealist for

568
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: a very long time. I thought we could make some

569
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 2: change happen with time. I thought, maybe I am naive.

570
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: Maybe I am naive because everybody tells me it takes

571
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 2: a long time. I know that we are mobilizing activists

572
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: and people on the ground, teachers, young women, girls and

573
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: you know, through Malala Fund, we investing them in Pakistan

574
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: and Nigeria, Afghanistan, like all of these countries, they're leading

575
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: amazing work. They're changing policies, they're like changing the futures

576
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: of gulls. But at the same time, when I witnessed

577
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: the reality of how a gull like in twenty twenty

578
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: five in Afghanistan is banned from education, how schools are

579
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 2: still getting bombed in places like Gaza, How child marriage

580
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 2: is a reality for girls in parts of Africa, when

581
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of children are losing their future. Is

582
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: it is frightening that, you know still like we have

583
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 2: to defend it, we have to talk about it, we

584
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: have to explain it. So I have, you know, become

585
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: more pessimistic now, But it doesn't stop me from the

586
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: way I do my work. Yeah, it actually makes me

587
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: work harder because I think that maybe we were just

588
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: too naive and we took it for granted, or we

589
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 2: thought it would be too easy. So when we reflect

590
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: on what's happening, I'm like, maybe we just thought, you know,

591
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: one accomplishment and somebody is now using a hashtag that

592
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: the job is done. No, I think we need to

593
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: think about systemic change, a lasting change that guarantees protection

594
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: to women and girls everywhere.

595
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: I love that for so long you had to be

596
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: this fixed version of yourself. Yeah, and you talk about

597
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: your childhood and a little mischievousness and I'm like, oh,

598
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: I want to know what your like favorite naughty have

599
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: it is. And I don't think a lot of women

600
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: get to be their whole selves and book and it

601
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: made me think for you, you know, not only did

602
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: you go through all of this at such a young age,

603
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: but even winning the Nobel Peace Prize at such a

604
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: young age. Yeah, I mean it was twenty fourteen.

605
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: How old were you seventeen?

606
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna say nineteen seventeen is even worse. I

607
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: mean amazing, But like, did it make you nervous about evolving, growing,

608
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: even dating? You know, you talk about your husband with

609
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: such a smile, like, yes, how is a Nobel Peace

610
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: Prize winner allowed to go on dates as a girl

611
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: in college?

612
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: Do you know? Like after the Nobel Peace Prize, I thought, yeah, like,

613
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: you know, people are paying more attention to what I'm

614
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: doing and they treat me with so much respect. But

615
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm a bit less cool now for the boys,

616
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: like a boring Nobel like like a nerd she has, like,

617
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: you know, nothing funny to say, so wow, So I

618
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to let that funny side of

619
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 2: me come out. Yeah, and in college when I finally

620
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: felt that, you know, I am in the space now

621
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: on a campus with no parents and the first time

622
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: and no staff or work people. This this is my

623
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: time now, and I'm going to decide my calendar. I'm

624
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: going to decide what I want to do.

625
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: Did you ever skip class? Many?

626
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you. My God doesn't sound right,

627
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: but let me explain.

628
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: Listen, let me get a break.

629
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: In college, like you have to make choices. I chose

630
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: socializing over studying. It doesn't mean I was not studying

631
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: at all, but if I could hang out with my

632
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: friends and have some fun moments, climb the college rooftop,

633
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: or talk about boys and who was dating who and

634
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: who needs my advice on you which voice to date.

635
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: I wanted to do all of that because just that

636
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: normal life of a college girl, you know, a woman

637
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: in her early twenties, was something I had missed and

638
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to relive that. Yes, I made the most

639
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: amazing friends at college. They gave me that comfort zone

640
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: where I could be myself. I did not have to

641
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: think twice about anything I said, because before I thought,

642
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: you know, are people going to quote me? Are they

643
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: judging me? Am I supposed to know everything? Can I

644
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: be allowed like not to know anything? Like absolutely anything?

645
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: And not to have anion? Yeah? Like, so what do

646
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: you think I'm I don't know, I haven't thought about it.

647
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: You tell me. And you know, those friends were amazing.

648
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: It was the first time that I felt they were

649
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: not interested in what happened when I was attacked, What

650
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: was it like when I won the Nobel Peace Prize.

651
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 2: They just wanted to know what I was up to

652
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 2: with my assignments, What was I doing the next day?

653
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 2: Should we go and get some groceries? And oh, what

654
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: do you think about that guy? Is an he q?

655
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's so incredible.

656
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, friends don't judge you. They give you that comfort zone.

657
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: I mean, the closest I can relate. Not that I

658
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: can relate to your journey in almost any way, but

659
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: the closest I can. I went to a very small,

660
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: all girls' school all through middle school, all through high school. Yes,

661
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: and when I was picking a college in a sort

662
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: of similar way, I thought, it's been me and you know,

663
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm one of fifty five girls in my class. There's

664
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty kids girls in my entire school

665
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: from fourth grade to twelfth grade. I just want to

666
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: have the college experience I've seen in the movies. Yes,

667
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: So I decided to go to USC and I was like,

668
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: look at this a football game, never seen one of

669
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: those before. Look at this a Greek system, Look at this,

670
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, a cafeteria. Did you say boys, I mean everywhere?

671
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. See. I also had no exposure, no exposure, I

672
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: had not seen boys. Yeah, when I saw them, I

673
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: was like, oh, you know, it wasn't really worth at

674
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: the time.

675
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, Also, college was a kind of disgusting. I know,

676
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: it's weird to sit in the classroom for the first

677
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: time your freshman year in college and be like, what

678
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: is that smell? And you're like, oh, it's the boys.

679
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: That is the part that like that's never in the movies.

680
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: They're cool, but they're not as school like. Yeah, they

681
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 2: get they you know, they mature sort of a bit later.

682
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we love them, yes, but I was like,

683
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: you all need to shower more. They never talk about

684
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 1: this part in the films.

685
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah.

686
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: It's so it's just so funny to me. I love

687
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: picturing you, like moving across the rooftops of your dorm

688
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: with all your friends.

689
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 2: I know. And then in Cottage, I also just felt

690
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: more comfortable in in just accepting my emotions and my feelings.

691
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: So when I saw this mysterious college guy who was very,

692
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: very handsome, I was like, wow, he's so good looking.

693
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: And I found out that he was like struggling with

694
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: his essays and he was in trouble all the time,

695
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: and the tutors were not happy with him. I was like, oh,

696
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: is there a way I can help him? I think

697
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: maybe he needs my help. And my friends were rolling

698
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 2: their eyes. They said, he always gets into trouble. Stay

699
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: away from him. He might be a drug dealer or something.

700
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, that you need to like,

701
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 2: you know, hear his side of the story. And yeah,

702
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: So I was there just to like trying to signal

703
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: that I'm here to help. But all he wanted was

704
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: some food from my room. So he would just show

705
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: up and get some bananas and crisps or whatever he

706
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: could find. He would not say a single word and

707
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: then disappear. Interesting, So yeah, that was like my failed mission.

708
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: But that was more to kiss a few frogs.

709
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was love in him. I would say

710
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: something that I sort of felt good about because I

711
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: was feeling something, but that was not real. Of course,

712
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: he was clearly ghosting me and ignoring me. I was

713
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: refusing to accept the scigns. Then he disappeared. But you know,

714
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: I realized that you sort of you grow so much

715
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: when you allow these emotions to come out and you

716
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: embrace them. But then soon after I met user who

717
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: is now my husband.

718
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Was

719
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: it an interesting thing for you meeting your husband and

720
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: knowing that there was something special in your connection, but

721
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: also knowing that if he was to be with you,

722
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: his life would become public in a way. How did

723
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: you too navigate that?

724
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: I was not thinking from his perspective at all, even

725
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: though I should have. So I remember, you know, meeting

726
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: him for the first time. We went for go karting

727
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: and I had like a mini accident. I exaggerated it

728
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: a bit. I was like, I think I had a concussion,

729
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 2: and he's like, it's okay, like you're fine, Like you're

730
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: just being a bit dramatic. But anyway, I just liked

731
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: that he just treated me like a normal person. Then we,

732
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, we went for a few dinners. Then I

733
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: took him for a movie at a cinema and I

734
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: was just telling him like, relax, you know, like just

735
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: be yourself. Why are you just like so scared and tensed?

736
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, you have like two security

737
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: guards right behind you, and I think that they're watching me.

738
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: So he's like, it's not normal to be dating somebody. Yeah,

739
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: and these like big strong guys like right behind you

740
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: and watching you. So I was like, okay, fine, Like

741
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: I understand it from your perspective. I knew that I

742
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: loved us, sir. I immediately fell in love with him,

743
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: but I wanted to take my because I wanted to

744
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: understand what it means when we make a commitment. In

745
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: our culture. You know, you cannot date a guy technically,

746
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: and you have to get married if you want to

747
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: live together. So I said, okay, like I have to

748
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: not think about marriage and everything. As a kid, I

749
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 2: just hated marriage. I had seen how girls had lost

750
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: the opportunity to complete their education because they were married off.

751
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 2: Marriage was like a boring conversation. If you wanted to

752
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 2: have a future, like put marriage aside. Tell your family,

753
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get married. This is what I

754
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: used to say. And I told all of my friends that,

755
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: you know, don't get married. And then then I saw

756
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: this guy and I was like, oh my goodness, Like

757
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 2: he's gorgeous and I want to be with him forever.

758
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: So I took my time. I did a lot of research.

759
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 2: I was just reading books by feminist authors, including Bell Hoax,

760
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 2: and I was having conversations with my mom, with my friends.

761
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 2: And then I got to know him more. I asked

762
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: him all of sometimes like silly questions, like if your

763
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: wife earns more than you, would you have a problem

764
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: with that? And he was like, why would I even

765
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 2: have a problem with that ord be so lucky if

766
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: she earns more than me, and you know, we can

767
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: have a comfortable life. I was like, Okay, okay, you know,

768
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 2: good answer.

769
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: Like check box on the cross.

770
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: Okay, not too bad. And then in the end, you know,

771
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: when when we spent some time together, we were in

772
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: Lake Placid and we had we had shared moments that

773
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: made me feel that he was the right one. I

774
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: felt loved when I was with him, and I had

775
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: prepared like a billion questions, but when I was with him,

776
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: every question just disappeared. I knew he was the one.

777
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, then I decided to marry him. Yeah, and

778
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: I had told my friends, don't get married at least

779
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: till you are like thirty five or something. I was

780
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: the first one in my friends group to get married.

781
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: They were like, you changed yourself, but in a good way. Yeah,

782
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: they were like, seriously, anyway, I love it.

783
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: Well. The reason that I'm such a fan of your

784
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: I mean, aside from the fact that he's obviously a

785
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: lovely person and makes you happy, is that he is

786
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: also a huge fan of women's sports. Yes, which really

787
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: says to me that he's a real one, you know,

788
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: because he's not just like, hey, babe, let's go to

789
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: an NBA game. He's like, let's go see the New

790
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: York Liberty when we're in town. Yes, And I love

791
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: that for him and I love that for us.

792
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: He is a BIGS women's sports fan. We both also

793
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: have started working on a project called Recess, which is

794
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: to invest in women's sports opportunities. And you know, I

795
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 2: have seen in my work that for us to make

796
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: a real difference for women and girls, we can't just

797
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: give them advice and words of inspiration. We have to

798
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: do real things to create opportunities for them. I tell

799
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: a girl, believe in yourself, follow her, follow your dreams,

800
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: and they look back and like, sorry, but there are

801
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: not enough leagues for us, not enough teams for us,

802
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: not enough opportunities for us. And I'm like, you know,

803
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: that's a fair response from young people that there's still

804
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: a lot that needs to be done in all sectors,

805
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: including sports, where we create equal opportunities for girls, where

806
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: they can do it. You know, they can treat sports

807
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: as a hobby, as as part of their education, or

808
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: as their career. Sports should be a career option for

809
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: girls from any part of the world. So I hope

810
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: that we can, you know, we can make a difference,

811
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: and we can bring in, you know, our expertise into this.

812
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: I'm just so excited for the work ahead. And I

813
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: named it recess because I think about a school recess time,

814
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: especially the recess time that I was experiencing when I

815
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: was a kid in Pakistan and girls had to stay

816
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: back in the school on a sports day and boys

817
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: could go to the local cricket ground. That was the

818
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: assumption that only boys could go to the cricket ground

819
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: and girls could not. They had to just be stuck

820
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: at school. They couldn't play any sports. And I asked

821
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: my husband, I said, what was your sports day like

822
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 2: in Pakistan? He said, yeah, you know, we used to

823
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: play hockey and then football and then cricket. It's like humm,

824
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: so very different expedience or boys when it's their recess time,

825
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 2: and very different experience for gus when it's their resist time.

826
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 2: Scin guzs have a different recess time. Yes, if we

827
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: create opportunities for them, if we start looking at sports

828
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: from the gender equity lens and make the right decisions

829
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: and the right shifts, yes, I think we can make

830
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: a difference, and.

831
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: They absolutely can if we create it. Yes, And one

832
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons it feels so incredibly important to me

833
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: and I'm excited about it. Girls who play sports become leaders.

834
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 1: You know, in the US, the statistic is that eighty

835
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: four percent of women who sit in C suites in

836
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: the highest seats of power in business and entrepreneurship played

837
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: high school or collegiate sports. But we also see that

838
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: by the age of thirteen, fifty percent of girls are

839
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: dropping out of sport because of access issues or body

840
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: confidence issues. And so I really think to your point

841
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 1: about gender equity, I think sports and access to sports play,

842
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, team building. I think that is a real

843
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: sort of incredible inflection point for us. And I want

844
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: the girls that we have been beating these doors down

845
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: as activists for that we're trying to hold them open

846
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: for for all these girls to come behind us. I

847
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: want them to have that access and knowing how important

848
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: it is for us here when I think about places

849
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: around the world, you know, like you said, places you

850
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: work with your fund, whether it's Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Like,

851
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: we've got to get girls on the field.

852
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, gulls deserve to have an opportunity in

853
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: everything that they dream for themselves. Sports is one of that. Yeah,

854
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: and I hope that we can make a difference for them.

855
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so exciting. Oh my god, I can't wait

856
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: for us to figure out what our first sporting event is.

857
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 1: I know we have to go to a gig.

858
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: You have you seen cricket?

859
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: I have seen it on TV. I've never seen a live.

860
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: I think we should go and see a cricket game. Okay,

861
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: how about that?

862
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: And we should also go watch some football. But when

863
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: I say football, I mean real soccer soccer, not the

864
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: backwards thing that US Americans did, which is steal the

865
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: international word for soccer and then make football handball like America.

866
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 2: Is a topic for another day, I know, but sometimes

867
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: that you guys can come up with.

868
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't know why we're like this. It's like our

869
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: our art, our democratic experiment. The core of it is

870
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: so gorgeous, and then there's just some things in the

871
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 1: flywheel that I'm like, we gotta we gotta be better

872
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: than this. Yeah, talking about being better, Yes, leading with

873
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: a better vision. Your book, I'm so happy where in

874
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: person so I can hold it up to camera. The

875
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: art is so beautiful. The book is so beautiful.

876
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 2: Thank you.

877
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: I just I want every I want everyone, not just

878
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: everygirl or every woman to read this book. I want

879
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: everyone to read this book. You've talked on this tour.

880
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: Not to sound like a total creep, but I've been

881
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: paying attention. You've talked on your tour about how the

882
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: book feels more honest. Yes, And you said something that

883
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: kills me because I know what you mean. I think, Okay,

884
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: you said it's more awkward, more me, and I was like,

885
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: oh my god, I feel like that. Lately. I feel

886
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: like I've come to a point where like I'm a

887
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: little more awkward and a little more myself. What does

888
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: that mean for you? What does this book mean for you?

889
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 2: This book is the most personal reflections I have ever shared.

890
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: And of course I was put in the spotlight from

891
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: a very young age. People have come to know me

892
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: through headlines and titles that I have received. Even I

893
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: got to know myself through that, and I was like, Okay,

894
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, maybe this is the life that I have

895
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: to embrace and internalize. But I realized that there's just

896
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: so much more to life. I wanted to grow in womanhood.

897
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: I knew that, I you know, I just cannot be

898
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: this fixed version that somebody else is expecting of me,

899
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: or I am under the assumption like it's all about perceptions,

900
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: you know, how we understand or receive these things. That

901
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 2: I could not allow myself to be funny again and

902
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: to feel loved or to make friends. I thought these

903
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: things are not for me. And I felt that maybe

904
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: I'm doing a disservice to my role as an activist

905
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: if I am am also exploring, like you know who

906
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 2: I am as a person. But on this journey through college,

907
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: through through my years after that, I have grown as

908
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: a person. I feel that I have more like diverse

909
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: and more rich emotions and feelings. I thought that I

910
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 2: survived the Aliban incident and I restarted a new life,

911
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 2: and I was so brave to do that. But when

912
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 2: I had the panic attack and I really lived the

913
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: whole attack experience, which I thought I didn't remember so much,

914
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 2: like it broke me down, like I could not be

915
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: the brave self that I thought I was. I was

916
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: in the dark. I needed my friends to come over

917
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: to my college room for a sleepover to help me

918
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,919
Speaker 2: go to sleep. That's how scary it was. I could

919
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: not focus on my work I would call my husband

920
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 2: and say, I don't know what's happening. You know, at

921
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: the time he was not my husband, but I would

922
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: just call him. I was like, you know, can you

923
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 2: tell me what has happened. I was like, maybe you

924
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: have a bit more experience on what these drugs and

925
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 2: stuff are like. But in the end, you know, it

926
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: took me months. It took me years to to get

927
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 2: through it, to find my way through it, and I

928
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 2: still do the work that I truly believe in. Even

929
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 2: when I have a panic attack, it does not stop

930
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 2: me from my activism or Afghan caause it does not

931
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: stop me from standing up to the Taliban. And now

932
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: I think this is true brevery, this is true courage.

933
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I'm standing up now, right,

934
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 2: I'm standing up now.

935
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: Because you're bringing your whole self.

936
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

937
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really beautiful. I'm so happy for you.

938
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: Thank you.

939
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: So I mean, big moment. You know, this is a

940
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: big thing to put in the world. It's a big

941
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: reconstitution and a reclamation really of so many parts of

942
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: yourself that perhaps you didn't think you were allowed to

943
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: be anymore. There's a lot of work that goes into that.

944
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: When you look forward, you know, at what's coming or

945
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 1: what you're hoping for. What feels like you're work in progress.

946
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: I mean right now for me, it's my book door.

947
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally getting to the calendar.

948
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 2: No, I'm actually excited. I'll be going to so many

949
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 2: different parts of the world, including in the US. I

950
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: am so excited to try everything local. I mean the

951
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 2: Chicago Deep Dish pizza.

952
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: Oh, I have a whole list of restaurants Chicago.

953
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 2: And you know, I enjoy the weather in La and

954
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: San Francisco. I'm excited for everything. I can't wait to

955
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: go to so many parts of the US and meet

956
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: people and you know, hopefully like talk to people. I

957
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: would love to know how other people are, you know, feeling.

958
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 2: I love talking to young people, how they are defining

959
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: bravery and courage, how they are navigating their way through

960
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: challenges in life. So I hope that this helps us

961
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: start a new conversation. I'm sharing my most personal reflections.

962
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm reintroducing myself because I want my true self to

963
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,479
Speaker 2: be out there in the public eye. Yeah. This if

964
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: somebody wants to know me, then this is the true me.

965
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful. Congratulations and thank you. For coming.

966
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, so wonderful to speak to

967
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: you and to be on your podcast.

968
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, M.