Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 3: What happens when there's a debate and no one wins.
Speaker 3: Welcome to hour two of Sound on this day. After
Speaker 3: the big debate and Donald Trump's counter programming last night,
Speaker 3: prompting a lot of sound bites but no apparent shakeup
Speaker 3: in the landscape here.
Speaker 4: The Republican race for president.
Speaker 3: We're going to be joined this hour by Lonnie Chen,
Speaker 3: longtime Republican strategist now with the Hoover Institution, about what
Speaker 3: we heard last night, whether he sees a potential for
Speaker 3: anyone to break out in this race, and how Donald
Speaker 3: Trump did with the other show. Later, breaking news on
Speaker 3: the downing of a jet in Russia. We've told you
Speaker 3: about apparently carrying Yevgeny pregosion. We have news from the
Speaker 3: United States on how that plane may have gone down.
Speaker 3: With a lot to cover this hour, let's start on
Speaker 3: Wall Street. Charlie Pellett has our update on rating for us.
Speaker 3: As always, Hey try, Thank you very much. Joe Matthew, Hi, Charlie,
Speaker 3: thank you. Welcome to our two of Sound On. I'm
Speaker 3: Joe Matthew in Washington, joined at the table now by
Speaker 3: our friend Kaylee Lines, who's still resting up after a
Speaker 3: night of three hours of programming essentially between the debate
Speaker 3: and the interview. And boy, we've got a lot to
Speaker 3: come yet today with our eyes on Fulton County and Georgia.
Speaker 4: This just it's August, but it never stops.
Speaker 5: No multiple things to pay attention to at once, last
Speaker 5: night being the X interview between Trump and Tucker as
Speaker 5: well as the first primary debate, and then today the
Speaker 5: aftermath of the debate. We're all trying to assess whether
Speaker 5: any needles actually were moved by the conversation that happened
Speaker 5: on stage in Milwaukee. At the same time, we also
Speaker 5: have our eyes on Trump's airplane to see when it's
Speaker 5: going to travel from New Jersey down to Georgia so
Speaker 5: that he could show up at the.
Speaker 6: Jail in Fulton County.
Speaker 4: So it was really good with the X. You just
Speaker 4: went right to X. There's no more Twitter for you.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I.
Speaker 5: Feel like I fluctuate. Yeah, but it said Tucker on X.
Speaker 4: I think that he had a whole logo last night.
Speaker 3: Now X Elon Musk was clearly embracing this whole thing.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk to Lonnie Chen, who's with us
Speaker 3: here at the table as well today, a longtime Republican
Speaker 3: strategist helped to run, helped to advise the Rodney campaign,
Speaker 3: the market Rubio campaign in sixteen. We're just talking to
Speaker 3: Nicky Haley about that. Remember that big endorsement.
Speaker 4: I bet you do. Welcome back, It's wonderful to see you.
Speaker 3: I want to bring it back to a moment last
Speaker 3: night that you may have had a hard time finding
Speaker 3: to begin with or remembering, because the governor of Florida
Speaker 3: did speak.
Speaker 7: We want to start on this with a show of hands.
Speaker 7: Do you believe in human behavior is causing climate change?
Speaker 4: Raise your hand if you do. Look, we're not school children.
Speaker 4: Let's have the debate. I mean, I'm happy to take
Speaker 4: it to start up.
Speaker 3: That was actually one of probably his better moments last night,
Speaker 3: where he tried to seize the debate, try to get
Speaker 3: the microphone. The Trump team, Lonnie said that he had
Speaker 3: a cameo and they thought they'd hear a little more
Speaker 3: from him last night. The whole idea was this was
Speaker 3: going to be a pileon run. But some folks who
Speaker 3: might maybe watch a ten or twenty minute chunk didn't
Speaker 3: even hear from him.
Speaker 4: Did he let you down? What was the strategy?
Speaker 8: I mean, look, the strategy probably for him was to survive, honestly,
Speaker 8: because I also thought I also thought it was going
Speaker 8: to be a pile on the fact that it wasn't
Speaker 8: makes it a win for him because he doesn't come
Speaker 8: out of the debate any worse. In my view, there
Speaker 8: are a lot of people who are in the donor community,
Speaker 8: who were in the establishment sort of thought leader, whatever
Speaker 8: you want to call it, the establishment community, who had
Speaker 8: their doubts about Rond DeSantis going in a last night,
Speaker 8: and I don't think that he did anything to make
Speaker 8: those doubts worse, Let's put it that way. So in
Speaker 8: that sense, I think you have to view that as
Speaker 8: a win. Now, could he have been more forceful, could
Speaker 8: he have been involved in more conversations, perhaps, but I
Speaker 8: think if you look at the overall trajectory of that campaign,
Speaker 8: it could have been a lot worse, right, And if
Speaker 8: everybody had come after him and he was sort of
Speaker 8: parrying things, it could have been worse.
Speaker 5: I think, well, who they decided to go laughter ultimately,
Speaker 5: and who commanded a lot of the oxygen and attention
Speaker 5: was the vake Romsque who has been pulling in third.
Speaker 5: Even if DeSantis didn't do anything to make it materially
Speaker 5: worse an absence of making it material materially better, did
Speaker 5: he just perhaps sacrifice the number two position? Do you
Speaker 5: think we could see someone like Levig overtaking him in
Speaker 5: the Nozo distant future.
Speaker 8: I think what Viveke did was to reinforce the concept
Speaker 8: that he's very good communicator. He's very good in those situations,
Speaker 8: but I think he's got a ceiling. And I think
Speaker 8: if you look at the you know, a couple of
Speaker 8: focus groups were done right after the debate by various
Speaker 8: media networks, and I think what was conveyed in those
Speaker 8: focus groups is what all the people are thinking, which
Speaker 8: is he seems like a nice communicator, he seems you know, slick,
Speaker 8: but he's too young, he's not experienced enough. I do
Speaker 8: think that those attacks, while they seemed a little bit
Speaker 8: hackneyed at the time, do speak to his principal problem,
Speaker 8: which is that there's only so much of the electorate
Speaker 8: that's available to him in a Republican primary, and he's
Speaker 8: going to hit that ceiling and that's pretty much going
Speaker 8: to be it in my view. So you're right, he
Speaker 8: drove a lot of attention. He may even be at
Speaker 8: the center of the stage for the next debate at
Speaker 8: the Reagan Library in California, but I don't think it
Speaker 8: makes him any more likely to be the nominee.
Speaker 3: So this is a stock that popped after hours already
Speaker 3: use a yeah, but I mean, look, we could listen.
Speaker 4: That's the way these things work.
Speaker 8: Though.
Speaker 3: When you look back at the sixteen campaign, everybody got
Speaker 3: a night or a month, yeah, and then there was
Speaker 3: no follow on, asked Chris Christie. That actually could have
Speaker 3: been the high water mark for mister Ramaswami.
Speaker 6: No, yeah, very well could have been.
Speaker 8: And what you see, what I saw last night was
Speaker 8: how much disdain, just raw disdain.
Speaker 6: There was for him from the other candidates.
Speaker 8: I'm about to look at the way that Nikki Haley
Speaker 8: engaged him, the way that Mike Pence engaged him. Chris Christie,
Speaker 8: everybody took their shots at vague because I think the
Speaker 8: idea that he's up there with them, they find to
Speaker 8: be kind of fundamentally offensive in some ways, right, and
Speaker 8: they were not afraid to let that emotion show when
Speaker 8: they went aft.
Speaker 3: When you remember the moment Kayley, when he said Donald Trump,
Speaker 3: I believe was the president of the twenty first century,
Speaker 3: then why would you run against him?
Speaker 4: I can't answer that in my head.
Speaker 5: Well, I think this is the question we have frankly
Speaker 5: been continually asking, is that Trump is the opponent of
Speaker 5: all of these individuals, and yet most of them, in
Speaker 5: the absence of Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christy for example,
Speaker 5: have been very reluctant to speak out against him, and
Speaker 5: in some cases have actually outright defended him. How long
Speaker 5: can they keep that up if realistically they need to
Speaker 5: get through him to.
Speaker 8: Get to phenomenal Well, I mean, that's exactly the right question,
Speaker 8: because the way this primary has set up. I have
Speaker 8: always felt, if you want to take out the king,
Speaker 8: you need to take out the king. You cannot use proxies,
Speaker 8: you cannot go sideways, you have to come directly at him,
Speaker 8: and no one really has been willing to do that
Speaker 8: in a sustained way, or certainly in a way that
Speaker 8: would impact the likelihood that he's the nominee. And so
Speaker 8: what you're left with is this inalterable conclusion that last night,
Speaker 8: while entertaining for some, did not move the needle for
Speaker 8: anybody else. So this is still Donald Trump's nominating contests.
Speaker 8: I think the poll numbers will reflect, broadly speaking, a
Speaker 8: bump for NICKI Haley, so she's going to go from
Speaker 8: maybe two percent to four percent or five percent. But
Speaker 8: at the end of the day, this is still Donald
Speaker 8: Trump's race to lose.
Speaker 6: It has been that way.
Speaker 8: And I say that with some sadness, because you know,
Speaker 8: I think that it's it's harmful for the Republican Party
Speaker 8: in the long run to have Donald Trump as the
Speaker 8: nominee the party again. But as I look at it,
Speaker 8: I don't see any other conclusion being logically and empirically verifiable.
Speaker 4: So smart move to sit down with Tucker and not again.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I listen, why why should he have
Speaker 6: gone to that?
Speaker 8: He would have gotten beat up on probably or in
Speaker 8: the alternative, he does well, and he's not a whole
Speaker 8: lot better off. Right, his numbers are what his numbers are, Tucker,
Speaker 8: He's speaking to his audience, and it's just a much
Speaker 8: lower sort of likelihood that something goes wrong in that
Speaker 8: environment versus in the debate environment.
Speaker 6: So I think his team made the right call.
Speaker 8: It's not the right call for democracy, but it's the
Speaker 8: right call for the Trump team absolutely.
Speaker 5: So as you're talking about the idea that this is
Speaker 5: still Trump's race to lose, that no one is really
Speaker 5: moving the needle here. Could the needle be moved if
Speaker 5: it were four candidates on that stage instead of eight,
Speaker 5: If we start to see a winnowing down of the
Speaker 5: field from here, as we get closer to the second debate,
Speaker 5: we see whether or not anyone who didn't make the
Speaker 5: criteria this time around, whether or not they can pull
Speaker 5: it off in round two. Is that when we actually
Speaker 5: start to see it make a difference, And until then
Speaker 5: is his lead just going to continue to widen.
Speaker 8: If you look at primary campaigns past, it has been
Speaker 8: when that field winnows and you're down to three or
Speaker 8: four candidates around that debate stage or table, when you
Speaker 8: begin to see harder contrasts. Right, it's when you had
Speaker 8: Chris Christy going after Marco Rubio and that takedown. You know,
Speaker 8: I think there were fewer candidates by the time we
Speaker 8: got to that, not a lot fewer but a few fewer.
Speaker 8: And so I do think what this rate, this race
Speaker 8: is going to have to crystallize to a point where
Speaker 8: it's one on one, and you've got a lot of
Speaker 8: things standing in the way of one on one right now.
Speaker 8: You've got personal ambition, you've got a lot of financial
Speaker 8: resources behind some of these candidates, and you've got the
Speaker 8: fact that their personal incentive is probably to stay in
Speaker 8: as long as they can because they can participate in
Speaker 8: these debates, people will learn more about them. There are
Speaker 8: advantages to being in this race. So I just think
Speaker 8: that Donald Trump having the lead also has several intrinsic advantages,
Speaker 8: such as the fact that the inertia is going to
Speaker 8: run toward a more people in the race for longer
Speaker 8: than not.
Speaker 3: Is part of the Donald Trump strategy to show up
Speaker 3: at court today effective in keeping him in front of
Speaker 3: the news, blunting what apparently was really not a balance
Speaker 3: for anyone last night. The choreography we're going to see
Speaker 3: over the next twelve hours is going to.
Speaker 4: Be important for him, it is.
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, he's always of the belief that
Speaker 8: there's no such thing as bad coverage, as bad media,
Speaker 8: and you know, he may be right about that.
Speaker 4: I don't know the risks today then.
Speaker 6: The same risks.
Speaker 8: I mean, the risks right now are all general election risks.
Speaker 8: In my view, they're not primary risks. One thing that
Speaker 8: Nicki ham to go to this general primary issue. One
Speaker 8: thing that Nicki Haley did very well last night was
Speaker 8: present herself as a credible general election candidate. Her answers
Speaker 8: on abortion on a whole other series, especially abortion, I
Speaker 8: thought were really tuned toward that audience of independent voters,
Speaker 8: whether they're pro life or pro choice. They hear what
Speaker 8: she says and they think that's a very reasonable position
Speaker 8: to take. So she was able to distinguish herself as
Speaker 8: an effective general election candidate. She may have been the
Speaker 8: only one, perhaps aside from Christy or Hutchinson or Bergham
Speaker 8: to a certain degree, who were able to do that.
Speaker 8: So I think Trump's challenge tonight is he's just getting
Speaker 8: more fodder in my view to Joe Biden.
Speaker 6: I mean the Biden team.
Speaker 8: They're talking about Bidenomics now, They're not going to be
Speaker 8: talking about Bidenomics when we get to next summer. About
Speaker 8: Donald Trump and about his legal troubles and do you
Speaker 8: really want this person in the White House again, that's
Speaker 8: what it'll be. It's a really interesting election because it's
Speaker 8: a referendum on both Biden and Trump.
Speaker 5: Had that in a while, and to your point, Nikki
Speaker 5: Haley was talking about that last night. She said most
Speaker 5: voters do not want to see a rematch. Also said
Speaker 5: that Donald Trump is either the least liked or the
Speaker 5: most hated. I forget the exact language, so roughly phrasing
Speaker 5: politician in America, and they can't win a general election
Speaker 5: that way. But you say that the Biden administration eventually
Speaker 5: is going to have to talk about Trump and his
Speaker 5: legal problems. They have specifically avoided doing that to this point.
Speaker 5: Because we also heard on stage last night a lot
Speaker 5: about the weaponization of the Justice Department and going after
Speaker 5: political opponents. How do they get around that narrative?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think that some of it is
Speaker 8: They're just going to have to take their lumps on it,
Speaker 8: because at the end of the day, the attack on
Speaker 8: Trump is probably more effective than the notion that and
Speaker 8: we'd have to see numbers to really support this. But
Speaker 8: my instinct just says, if you've got this whole range
Speaker 8: of stuff on Trump, and so much of it Hinges
Speaker 8: on his legal difficulties.
Speaker 6: Separate and apart from the federal.
Speaker 8: Case, you've got all these state cases as well. There's
Speaker 8: enough material there to use that they probably ought to
Speaker 8: use it, and I think they will use it. And again,
Speaker 8: I just I think the challenge with making the economic argument,
Speaker 8: which I know they want to make, is it does
Speaker 8: fly in the face a little bit of where people
Speaker 8: are in terms of how they feel about the economy.
Speaker 8: And if you look at all the survey of research,
Speaker 8: there was a poll done by Quinnipiac University, there's another
Speaker 8: poll done recently that just shows, particularly Amongst African Americans
Speaker 8: and Hispanics, a deep disaffection with economics right now, with
Speaker 8: the condition of the economy, and you're making an argument
Speaker 8: about Bidenomics is working, and people are like, well, it
Speaker 8: doesn't work it for me, right, So that mismatch really
Speaker 8: leaves them with very few available arguments. And that's why
Speaker 8: I think the Trump argument will be irresistible for I.
Speaker 3: Nicky Haley went to the economy last night and a
Speaker 3: pretty interesting moment. We asked her about this earlier today,
Speaker 3: calling out not only Democrats but also Republicans for adding
Speaker 3: to the nation's debt.
Speaker 7: They need to stop the spending, they need to stop
Speaker 7: the borrowing. They need to eliminate the earmarks that the
Speaker 7: Republicans brought back in, and they need to make sure
Speaker 7: they understand these are taxpayer dollars, it's not theirs. And
Speaker 7: while they're all saying this, you have Ron de Santas,
Speaker 7: You've got Tim Scott, you've got Mike Pence. They all
Speaker 7: voted to raise the debt and Donald Trump added eight
Speaker 7: trillion to our debt. And our kids are never going
Speaker 7: to forgive us for.
Speaker 3: This, naming names, including Donald Trump. In that case, eight
Speaker 3: trillion dollars is a big number that Joe Biden, i'm sure,
Speaker 3: is looking forward to reminding people about.
Speaker 4: I just wonder your thoughts on Nikki Haley.
Speaker 3: Last night, she had a good night, She get a
Speaker 3: lot of buzz this morning, she had some powerful exchanges,
Speaker 3: and I think to your I think you were at
Speaker 3: least going there a little bit earlier. She sounded a
Speaker 3: lot more like a Mitt Romney last night than a
Speaker 3: Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: But is there a party for that?
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I think the argument on deficits
Speaker 8: and debt is a good argument for her to carry.
Speaker 8: And I appreciate that she carried that because it doesn't
Speaker 8: feel like a lot of Republicans are willing to Is
Speaker 8: there an audience for it that I'm not sure about.
Speaker 8: I think within the Republican Party there is certainly an
Speaker 8: audience for it. It is a smaller audience today than
Speaker 8: ten years ago. Ten years ago, deficits and debt. You know,
Speaker 8: when I worked on Mitt Romney's twenty twelve effort, I
Speaker 8: will tell you that was always one of our top
Speaker 8: polling issues that people were deeply concerned. This was coming
Speaker 8: out of the Tea Party movement of twenty ten, twenty eleven, Obamacare,
Speaker 8: all that other stuff. There was a lot of interest
Speaker 8: in deficit and debt. Now I'm not so sure, but
Speaker 8: what she is showing is that she's trying, in some
Speaker 8: ways to unite the tribes here.
Speaker 6: She's trying to say, listen, if you like the America
Speaker 6: First stuff, I was part of that administration. I did that.
Speaker 8: If you like the fiscal conservative, that's me. I'm telling
Speaker 8: you about deficit and debt. If you like the social conservative,
Speaker 8: I'm just socially conservative enough. I'm pro life, but I
Speaker 8: do believe in states having some measure of control over things.
Speaker 8: I think she was trying to be the unite the
Speaker 8: tribe's candidate. And if you think about the numbers in
Speaker 8: this primary, they're probably sixty five percent of people out
Speaker 8: there in the Republican primary who don't want Donald Trump
Speaker 8: to be the nominatee.
Speaker 6: So you can unite those tribes exactly. How about it?
Speaker 3: Lone, great to have you, Thanks, thanks for having me
Speaker 3: talk to us A light chat with us on sound On.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound On podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 3: The former Republican governor of South Carolina, of course, our
Speaker 3: former ambassador to the UN who had a big night
Speaker 3: on the debate stage, getting a lot more attention this
Speaker 3: day than she was even yesterday.
Speaker 4: But can she keep the momentum going.
Speaker 3: Let's assemble our panel, our signature panel is here with
Speaker 3: more after the big night. That would of course be
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzeno and Rick Davis.
Speaker 4: Great to have both of you here.
Speaker 3: Guys, Rick, I'll start with you, after this big conversation
Speaker 3: for the Republican Party last night, your initial reaction to
Speaker 3: Nicki Haley a big night here sparring with the vig
Speaker 3: Ramaswami any number of others and even called out Donald
Speaker 3: Trump and members of her own party.
Speaker 4: Was this a good performance? Did she win the night?
Speaker 9: Well, she certainly executed on her plan, and I think
Speaker 9: we were all surprised by that plan. And by the way,
Speaker 9: kudos for getting her on an interview today. I think
Speaker 9: you know, we learned a little bit about her views
Speaker 9: on social security, which actually seemed to track more the
Speaker 9: Mike Pence view than most of the people that were
Speaker 9: on the stage last night. But look, I mean she
Speaker 9: turned out to be the anti Trump elixir for the state.
Speaker 9: I mean, she did more along the lines that we
Speaker 9: thought Chris Christy would do, which is really take it
Speaker 9: to Trump the administration, contrasts her views on everything from
Speaker 9: economic issues to trade to national security and and and
Speaker 9: really got into it, uh with vic Ramaswami in a
Speaker 9: way that you know, kudos to her for standing up
Speaker 9: for her principles. So I think she was a standout
Speaker 9: last night. I'm not sure how much demand there is
Speaker 9: for that kind of point of view within the Republican Party.
Speaker 9: I mean, if she is the last person standing against
Speaker 9: Donald Trump, I think it might be an interesting race.
Speaker 3: Would love your take on this as well, Jeanie Shanzano.
Speaker 3: Here's the moments that Nikki Haley jumped out of the
Speaker 3: box to go at it with the vig Ramaswami on
Speaker 3: foreign affairs.
Speaker 6: Why always to go and defund Israel? You want to
Speaker 6: get let me address that. I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 6: Go and give you to address each of those.
Speaker 10: Right now us the false is of a professional politician.
Speaker 11: There you have it.
Speaker 12: So the reality is less.
Speaker 7: You have no foreign policy experience, and you.
Speaker 13: Know what, the policy experience that you chosen, the less WARLD.
Speaker 6: Has gotten into act to address that.
Speaker 10: So our relationship with Israel will it never be stronger
Speaker 10: than by the end of my first But it's not
Speaker 10: quiet relationship, it is a friendship.
Speaker 3: You have no foreign policy experience and it shows, she said, Genie,
Speaker 3: how did Nicki Haley do last night?
Speaker 14: She performed very well. And I think if you're a
Speaker 14: Democrat watching this, you're hoping that she is not the nominee,
Speaker 14: And lucky for Democrats, it's unlikely she will be because
Speaker 14: Nicki Haley is running and she is probably the winner
Speaker 14: of any sort of quote unquote establishment Republicans. She's probably
Speaker 14: the winner of the donor class. But as you hear
Speaker 14: that audience from the second they began introducing the candidates
Speaker 14: on stage and we heard the booze for Chris Christie,
Speaker 14: it sounded even like for Asa Hutchinson. You knew that
Speaker 14: this was Donald Trump's crowd all the way. And Vivek
Speaker 14: Ramaswami every time he spoke, and to me, he was
Speaker 14: auditioning to be VP. He was the stand in for
Speaker 14: Donald Trump. He was met with cheers for the most part.
Speaker 14: So she had a very strong night. I'm just not
Speaker 14: sure there's an audience for it in the Republican Party.
Speaker 14: That was sitting in that audience and that is going
Speaker 14: to be voting in these primaries, and that's the problem
Speaker 14: for the Republican Party. And so you know, it is
Speaker 14: a real challenge for somebody like her, but she did.
Speaker 14: For Democrats. She's you know, looming as a big, pragmatic
Speaker 14: old style Republican concern.
Speaker 3: So you both seem to agree here she's from a
Speaker 3: Republican party of the past. Maybe let's talk about the
Speaker 3: Ramaswami a little bit more, because she wasn't the only
Speaker 3: one to call him out for a lack of experience.
Speaker 4: How about Mike.
Speaker 1: Joe Biden has weakened this country at home and abroad.
Speaker 6: Now is not the time for on the job training.
Speaker 4: We don't need to bring in a rookie.
Speaker 6: We don't need to bring in people without experience.
Speaker 3: You know, there was that memo, remember from the Ron
Speaker 3: DeSantis pac that said he was going to go after
Speaker 3: of Avague that would be the target.
Speaker 4: Apparently it was. He was not the only one to
Speaker 4: get that memo. Here's Chris Christy.
Speaker 11: Already tonight of a guy who sounds it's like chatchi
Speaker 11: BT standing up here. And the last person in one
Speaker 11: of these debates, Bret who stood in the middle of
Speaker 11: the stage and said, what's a skinny guy with an
Speaker 11: odd last name doing up here? Was Barack Obama. And
Speaker 11: I'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur
Speaker 11: who sand In saves tonight.
Speaker 4: Gi Amish, give me a hug just like you did at.
Speaker 6: The same time, and you help let me.
Speaker 4: Just like Obama too, he never did get the hug.
Speaker 3: I will give the Vake Ramaswami credit for smiling through
Speaker 3: the entire debate. I feel like there might be something,
Speaker 3: uh somewhat contagious there. But Rick, are we going to
Speaker 3: look back at last night as the peak of the
Speaker 3: Ramaswami campaign.
Speaker 12: Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 9: I think he's going to be around for a little while.
Speaker 9: He's he's he's pretty good on the stump and people
Speaker 9: are entertained, and maybe he is, like.
Speaker 12: What Genie says, auditioning for VP.
Speaker 9: What's interesting is every vote he's got that's sitting on
Speaker 9: his ballot is a Donald Trump boat, right. I mean,
Speaker 9: like what we learned last night is he's willing to
Speaker 9: go way further out, like what Ambassador Nicky Haley pointed
Speaker 9: out than anybody else on that stage, for things like
Speaker 9: supporting Putin, you know, giving a break to China, you know,
Speaker 9: abandoning our friends in the Middle East like Israel. I mean,
Speaker 9: you know, these are such outrageous positions that no one
Speaker 9: else is going to touch that rail, you know, on
Speaker 9: that stage, except Donald Trump, who actually got ahead by
Speaker 9: saying outrageous things just like vec has done. So, uh,
Speaker 9: if you got to worry if Veck ever got out
Speaker 9: of the race, I think all that support just goes
Speaker 9: to pad the comfort of the Donald Trump margin. So
Speaker 9: you know, Govivac Trade the beast, you know, keep going
Speaker 9: up in the polls because nobody else outside of a
Speaker 9: hard Trump supporter is going to be for that guy.
Speaker 3: Well, it's confusing to me, Genie, because Ramaswami said last
Speaker 3: night that he believes Donald Trump was the greatest president
Speaker 3: of the twenty first century.
Speaker 4: If you believe that, why would you run?
Speaker 14: That's absolutely right. And of course you know of a
Speaker 14: man who's facing what ninety one criminal chargees and is
Speaker 14: you know, in four jurisdictions, facing trials that may put
Speaker 14: him in jail for his life and turning himself in today.
Speaker 14: You know, for the Democrats, the vek Ramaswami is something
Speaker 14: of a dream. Nothing could be better for them than
Speaker 14: if it's not Donald Trump it's the vek Ramaswami. But
Speaker 14: of course, to Rick's point, where's the pathway for somebody
Speaker 14: like the vek Ramaswami because he's sort of Trump junior.
Speaker 14: And you know I heard somebody today describe him as
Speaker 14: the Tracy Flick of the election, which, as you mentioned,
Speaker 14: all the smiling, the best political campaign movie ever election
Speaker 14: with Reese Witherspoon, and that's really what he seemed like.
Speaker 14: But you've got to wonder, you know, what is he doing?
Speaker 14: And that's why I come back. Do I think he
Speaker 14: is auditioning to be VP or a cabinet member? That said,
Speaker 14: you know, he came out of nowhere, and for him
Speaker 14: to be the center of this debate and to be
Speaker 14: the person that a former vice president all these governors
Speaker 14: and former governors are attacking, and to have this standout
Speaker 14: performance for what it is, I think really speaks to
Speaker 14: the really, really dismal path that the Republican Party is
Speaker 14: going down now and the fact that Trump was right
Speaker 14: to skip this. This is his party and his election
Speaker 14: in his campaign right now to lose, and it was
Speaker 14: showcased last night.
Speaker 3: Extra points for the Tracy Flick reference, Scott. I can
Speaker 3: always count on Eugenie Schanzeno. How did Mike Keen's do
Speaker 3: we heard his voice a minute ago. Rick, he had
Speaker 3: more experience than anyone else. He really took the moment
Speaker 3: when he could to try to stand out from the pack.
Speaker 3: He leaned into the January sixth story. Did he do
Speaker 3: enough to stay viable?
Speaker 9: You know, look his pathway is Iowa, and so look
Speaker 9: at what he did. He was more combative than I
Speaker 9: think anybody thought he was going to be. He took
Speaker 9: his normal shot at Donald Trump on the Constitution, and
Speaker 9: he talked a lot about scripture and his faith, which
Speaker 9: is a good road to hoe if you're trying to
Speaker 9: win a caucus in Iowa. So I'm not sure how
Speaker 9: much of that's going to sell in New Hampshire. But
Speaker 9: he's a one state candidate and he worked at hard
Speaker 9: last night. I'd say he did pretty well, much better
Speaker 9: than I thought he could. He has very high negatives
Speaker 9: within Republican caucus goers in Iowa, So the question is
Speaker 9: did he overcome some of that negativity. It's not a
Speaker 9: neutral position on him. Republicans in Iowa don't like him,
Speaker 9: and so he's going to have to do what he
Speaker 9: can to overcome that. But I think he made some
Speaker 9: progress last night.
Speaker 3: We'll see how he does, I guess in the second debate.
Speaker 3: But you know whose name I have not mentioned yet,
Speaker 3: he was supposed to be the star last night. He
Speaker 3: came in with a very different strategy than I think
Speaker 3: some expected. The governor of Florida, who did the Trump
Speaker 3: team suggests, played a cameo at best in the debate
Speaker 3: last night. But when he spoke, he didn't seem like
Speaker 3: he was terribly involved in the rest of the debate,
Speaker 3: almost as if there was media training. Maybe you guys
Speaker 3: can weigh in on this to say, hey, no one
Speaker 3: watches these things. We need capturable content for social media.
Speaker 3: Don't worry about what comes before or after your opportunity.
Speaker 4: This economy it was a mistake. It should have never happened.
Speaker 15: And in Florida, we led the country out of lockdown.
Speaker 15: We kept our state free and open. And I can
Speaker 15: tell you this, as your president, I will never let
Speaker 15: the deep state bureaucrats lock you down. You don't take
Speaker 15: somebody like Fauci and coddle him. You bring Fauci in,
Speaker 15: you sit him down, and you say, Anthony, you are fired.
Speaker 3: Interesting because I thought that was Donald Trump's line, you're fired.
Speaker 3: But he went there a lot of uncomfortable smiles last night.
Speaker 3: He was frozen at one point in the camera. Rick Davis,
Speaker 3: how did Ron DeSantis do.
Speaker 12: Well?
Speaker 9: I'm afraid my old friend Brett O'Donnell, who gave the
Speaker 9: maid advice to John McCain and virtually every presidential campaign
Speaker 9: since then, had his work cut out for him because
Speaker 9: who looked more uncomfortable on that stage than what was
Speaker 9: supposed to be the guy everybody wanted. So look, I mean,
Speaker 9: maybe he just doesn't have it an him, But as
Speaker 9: you pointed out, he just kind of ignored what was
Speaker 9: going on, didn't care what question was asked of him,
Speaker 9: didn't interact with anybody else, didn't create a moment where
Speaker 9: he did anything other than his normal talking points. So
Speaker 9: if he thinks he's on the comeback trail with that performance,
Speaker 9: he's on the wrong path.
Speaker 4: Well that's not good, Genie.
Speaker 3: This was supposed to be the night that he reversed
Speaker 3: the slide. You know, he's doing the big campaign reset
Speaker 3: or something like that. Is there something to his approach?
Speaker 3: It was certainly clippable for Instagram and Twitter or did
Speaker 3: he lose groundlin Last Life?
Speaker 14: Yeah, it was clippable for Trump's campaign, certainly. I don't
Speaker 14: know about the Santisis campaign, you know. Quite Frankly, Joe,
Speaker 14: you're like a half hour into this show and you're
Speaker 14: just messaging, you know, mentioning him now, and that's pretty
Speaker 14: much the reality of Dysantis. Was he even on that stage?
Speaker 14: I kept wondering, did he think he was like Donald Trump?
Speaker 14: Up fifty points, forty points and he could just not
Speaker 14: show up because quite frankly, it was like he wasn't
Speaker 14: even there and he was center stage, he was upstaged.
Speaker 14: He did not take many opportunities, if any. He looked uncomfortable.
Speaker 14: He said things about Fauci. And you know, let's remember
Speaker 14: the pandemic for Republican voters in the primary right at
Speaker 14: this point doesn't matter, and Fauci already retired, So why
Speaker 14: is he talking about him?
Speaker 12: You know?
Speaker 14: It just it was a mind boggling sort of strategy,
Speaker 14: if there was one, he didn't execute. But this is
Speaker 14: how he was in the gubernatorial debates as well. He
Speaker 14: is not a good debater. He's not a good retail politician.
Speaker 14: I don't know what his path is forward. But I
Speaker 14: can't imagine you're a big money donor and you're thinking
Speaker 14: that's the guy for me, I can't imagine it. I
Speaker 14: think it was a really poor performance.
Speaker 3: So what happens after a night like that? Rick GENI
Speaker 3: just mentioned the donors, what's this campaign doing now? They
Speaker 3: can't think that went well? Well, I'll ask you the
Speaker 3: same thing I guess I did about Ramas Swami. Do
Speaker 3: we look back at last night as you know, kind
Speaker 3: of the beginning of the end or has that already happened?
Speaker 12: You know?
Speaker 9: Look, I think that he's already slid thirty points from
Speaker 9: his ballot in February, right, So, like what more is left?
Speaker 9: And the reality is too if people are looking for
Speaker 9: an option for Donald Trump and they're in that cohort
Speaker 9: where they may be sitting on Trump's ballot, right, how
Speaker 9: do we get people off of Trump and onto another candidate.
Speaker 9: I'd say Ramaswami kind of made his case last night.
Speaker 9: You think Donald Trump's crazy and I'm going to do
Speaker 9: these insane things around the world.
Speaker 8: Pick me.
Speaker 12: I'll even be more crazy and do more insane things
Speaker 12: around the world.
Speaker 9: I mean, like, he actually played a completely different deck
Speaker 9: of cards and I think got away with it. So
Speaker 9: I doubt if there's going to be very many Trump
Speaker 9: voters shopping for the DeSantis, Oh you know, you're a
Speaker 9: better option for me. I think they're going full crazy
Speaker 9: and may start, you know, moving over to Ramaswami and
Speaker 9: seeing whether or not he's the real deal. It doesn't
Speaker 9: really make a bit of difference to the rest of
Speaker 9: the field because they're not competing with.
Speaker 12: The same voters.
Speaker 9: Ramaswamy's not going to take a single ballot away from
Speaker 9: Tim Scott or you know, Nicky Hayley or any of
Speaker 9: the other candidates.
Speaker 3: Well, we've got a lot more to talk about, including
Speaker 3: the man who was not in the room last night,
Speaker 3: Donald Trump sat down with Tucker Carlson, did a polished
Speaker 3: edited interview that covered a lot of ground from Jeffrey
Speaker 3: Epstein to Civil War.
Speaker 4: And this is the.
Speaker 3: Day he's expected to show up in Fulton County to surrender.
Speaker 3: So we're about to shift our attention back to Donald
Speaker 3: Trump's legal issues. We'll talk about it next with Rick
Speaker 3: and Jeanie. Only here on sound On.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: Of course, it wasn't just the debate last night. We
Speaker 3: also had the split screen with Donald Trump, the fore
Speaker 3: and beyond front runner in this contest, sitting for an
Speaker 3: interview with Tucker Carlson because you know, he figured with
Speaker 3: his polling numbers, he had no interests in going to
Speaker 3: that debate.
Speaker 4: He was bigger than it.
Speaker 13: Rules have come out, and I'm leading by fifty and
Speaker 13: sixty points, and you know some of them are at
Speaker 13: one and zero and the two. And I'm saying, do
Speaker 13: I sit there for an hour or two hours, whatever
Speaker 13: it's going to be and get harassed by people that
Speaker 13: should need me running for president?
Speaker 12: Should I be doing that?
Speaker 16: So?
Speaker 4: If so, no show.
Speaker 3: And they talked about a lot of stuff beyond the
Speaker 3: debate with Tucker Carlson. It's about forty five minutes long.
Speaker 3: I guess they got into whether Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.
Speaker 3: They got into whether we're heading for a civil war.
Speaker 3: Sort of a bizarre conversation as the President did his
Speaker 3: best to appear bigger than the debate last night, which
Speaker 3: members of the Trump team called the undercar Let's reassembled
Speaker 3: our Panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you watched it, Genie, maybe you
Speaker 3: have to get back there and add to the views
Speaker 3: on Twitter or x or whatever we call it. But
Speaker 3: in retrospect, having seen the debate, was that actually the
Speaker 3: smart move from Donald Trump?
Speaker 4: Or did he missed an opportunity.
Speaker 14: He didn't miss an opportunity by skipping the debate. There
Speaker 14: was really no reason for him to appear there, and
Speaker 14: he was right about that. But this interview, I, in
Speaker 14: my mind, the words come chilling weird. They talked about
Speaker 14: civil war, they talked about potential violence. Carlson asked him
Speaker 14: if he thought he was going to be assassinated. So
Speaker 14: if anybody thinks that if Donald Trump is the nominee
Speaker 14: and that seems increasingly likely that things are going to
Speaker 14: calm down, that is absolutely not the case. I mean,
Speaker 14: they are talking about political and social violence in the
Speaker 14: Civil War, and Donald Trump came off as sort of
Speaker 14: less unhinged than Chuck Tucker Carlson, if it's possible. But
Speaker 14: it was a very very bizarre conversation, and as you mentioned,
Speaker 14: even got into things like Jeffrey Epstein and whether he
Speaker 14: killed himself or not. So you know, he was right
Speaker 14: to skip the debate. Doesn't make that much sense if
Speaker 14: you're forty points up. But this interview is a chilling
Speaker 14: reminder as to what's ahead if he's the nominee, and indeed,
Speaker 14: if he's reelected.
Speaker 3: Good Weighana, I guess on the Civil War if you
Speaker 3: want to hear Rick. But I just wonder strategically, the
Speaker 3: conventional wisdom was, hey, why would Trump ever go? And
Speaker 3: it looks like he may not attend any of these
Speaker 3: primary debates based on what he's posted on social media.
Speaker 3: He's not going to be able to resist this for
Speaker 3: a lot longer though, Right, is he really going to
Speaker 3: sit all these out?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 12: He might, I mean unless there's a serious challenge.
Speaker 9: That confronts him that he would need to try to vanquish.
Speaker 9: I can't imagine what's in it for him to stand
Speaker 9: around a bunch of the replacements and give them sort
Speaker 9: of a free shot at him. They seem encouraging to
Speaker 9: want to do it. So I think he did the
Speaker 9: right thing. He had to do something, And I agree
Speaker 9: with Genie. I mean, the most bizarre thing wasn't Donald
Speaker 9: Trump last night. It was Stucker Carlson. I mean, the
Speaker 9: strangest bunch of questions you know about conspiracy theories and
Speaker 9: oddball you know, questions that I've ever seen in an interview,
Speaker 9: and the most low energy between the two of them.
Speaker 9: I mean, like, who's going to name them low energy?
Speaker 9: I mean, it's it was boring, and I'll be honest.
Speaker 9: You know, when I was on the Ronald Reagan campaign.
Speaker 12: We talked a lot about the Panama Canal. Didn't think
Speaker 12: we were going to hear about that again last night,
Speaker 12: but sure enough.
Speaker 9: You know those nasty Chinese infiltrated the Panama Canal.
Speaker 12: Well, he was president for four years.
Speaker 9: Did he do anything about China infiltration of the Panama Canal?
Speaker 12: I don't remember, but.
Speaker 9: I must say, remember, I think this is the first
Speaker 9: time I hear whatever say. I think the undercard was
Speaker 9: better than the top fight.
Speaker 3: I can't disagree with that. I feel like Jeanie would
Speaker 3: agree as well. And his hope here is to just
Speaker 3: debate Joe Biden right bypass the primaries. Act like you're
Speaker 3: the incumbent, get on stage with President Biden.
Speaker 4: He did get into the age issue.
Speaker 3: Last night, despite the fact that he's only four years
Speaker 3: younger than the city president.
Speaker 13: Can't walk to the helicop, he walks, he can't lift
Speaker 13: his feet out of the grass. You know, it's only
Speaker 13: two inches at the White House. I have said a lot,
Speaker 13: but you watch him and it looks like he's walking on.
Speaker 3: Toothpicks, walking on toothpicks across the south lawn.
Speaker 4: Never mind the beach.
Speaker 3: We've seen a lot of beach photos lately. I guess
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's been paying.
Speaker 13: You see in the beach where he can't lift the chair.
Speaker 13: You know this years are meant to be light, right,
Speaker 13: They're like two ounces.
Speaker 4: He lift them up.
Speaker 13: He can't lift the chair. He can't walk to the chair.
Speaker 13: And I don't know what they're doing with the beach.
Speaker 13: You know, this beach is seeming to play a big role.
Speaker 13: But they love pictures of him on the beach. I
Speaker 13: think it looks terrible on the beach.
Speaker 3: Maybe he should be on the golf course, Genie. I
Speaker 3: don't know, but it didn't seem like he had too
Speaker 3: much trouble lifting the chair.
Speaker 4: Is he onto something?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 3: Since this Hawaii trip, there's been a much more concerted
Speaker 3: effort to paint Joe Biden as being too old and unfit.
Speaker 4: Mentally and physically for this job.
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's the same thing that they tried to do
Speaker 14: to Hillary Clinton and in the unsuccessfully in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 14: To try to say that she didn't have her faculties together,
Speaker 14: and they're trying to do it with Joe Biden. As
Speaker 14: you looked at the conservative media post that Hawaii trip,
Speaker 14: there was a lot of those memes and videos about
Speaker 14: him sleeping.
Speaker 12: Well, he wasn't sleeping.
Speaker 14: He was swallowing. He was putting his head down during
Speaker 14: a very tough discussion about all the people who had
Speaker 14: you know, suffered during the fires and the victims. So
Speaker 14: you know, there is an awful lot of that going down.
Speaker 14: But I have to say I was surprised even for
Speaker 14: Donald Trump to go there because of course today when
Speaker 14: he turns himself in, they may release his weight, and
Speaker 14: not just the mug shot, but his weight, which is
Speaker 14: something he may want to avoid. We know he's very
Speaker 14: concerned about that. So for him to be talking about
Speaker 14: somebody else's physical condition, I think it's going to be
Speaker 14: interesting to see what comes out about his weight when
Speaker 14: they book him today in that horrific jail down in Atlanta,
Speaker 14: and he's gonna you know, and know Ronnie Jackson there
Speaker 14: to say what excellent condition he's in.
Speaker 4: Well, that's true.
Speaker 3: You know they did the fake mug shot, right, didn't
Speaker 3: they put a a false weight on the T shirts
Speaker 3: that they I look, we're gonna see a mugshot apparently
Speaker 3: at some point later on today. We don't know exactly
Speaker 3: when he's going to get to the courthouse, but of
Speaker 3: course we'll keep you posted on all of this here
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis reminding us that
Speaker 3: we have a whole other leg in this story later
Speaker 3: on today as we go back to Fulton County.
Speaker 4: But we're not done with the debate, not quite yet.
Speaker 3: Some final thoughts from our panel straight ahead on who
Speaker 3: was locked out of the spin room last night and
Speaker 3: they're still complaining about it.
Speaker 4: It's the fastest show in.
Speaker 3: Politics the day after the debate, the day of the surrender.
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Glad you're with us. It's Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app.
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Speaker 3: Of course, the part of the show at the debate,
Speaker 3: like last night in Milwaukee, is what's happening outside of
Speaker 3: the hall and in the spin room is what.
Speaker 4: They call it.
Speaker 3: That's where all the surrogates go after the big debate,
Speaker 3: try to get on cable news and literally spin what
Speaker 3: their preferred candidate said, try to set things straight. But
Speaker 3: of course Donald Trump skipped the debate and the RNC
Speaker 3: made a decision last evening to not allow Trump surrogates.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have Rick and Jennie weigh in on this
Speaker 3: because it turned into a pile up at the door
Speaker 3: of the spin room. Just ask Marjorie Taylor Green, who
Speaker 3: went on a rival conservative network to complain about it.
Speaker 16: Blocked us out. They would not allow myself, Matt Gates,
Speaker 16: any other Trump surrogates to go into the spin room.
Speaker 16: We argued with them, talk to them. We showed the
Speaker 16: correct credentials, We had spin room credentials, and they would
Speaker 16: not let us in. So this is censorship from Fox News.
Speaker 3: Actually the RNC, I believe, if not Fox Alls, they
Speaker 3: both said that this would be the case. They warned
Speaker 3: them that they would not be welcome. But I'll tell
Speaker 3: you what Donald Trump Junior showed up to and.
Speaker 1: Because any of us.
Speaker 4: But that's what it is. I'd been told by all
Speaker 4: this and I would be able to go in.
Speaker 9: So they said we weren't able to go in, and
Speaker 9: they said they were in now that we're here, and
Speaker 9: the candidate that.
Speaker 12: Said you can't go in the spin room, they're telling
Speaker 12: me right now.
Speaker 3: They told them that they wouldn't be let in, but
Speaker 3: they showed up anyway, Rick Davis, was that the right
Speaker 3: move by the organizers of this debate?
Speaker 12: Sure, you got to pay to play.
Speaker 9: I mean, Donald Trump blows off Fox, blows off the RNC,
Speaker 9: you know, won't abide by the rules that the RNC
Speaker 9: set up and then expects to have, you know, carte
Speaker 9: blanche and to access to the spin room and things
Speaker 9: like that. Now, I mean, the only mistake I think
Speaker 9: that they made is instead of talking about Donald Trump
Speaker 9: and using the moment like on air to pitch the
Speaker 9: Donald Trump campaign, they just talked about themselves and their
Speaker 9: grievances and had nothing to do with actually winning a
Speaker 9: presidential race.
Speaker 4: So you know, I did you have left them out?
Speaker 14: Jeanie, Oh no, it's so Unamerican kidding. That's what Kimberly
Speaker 14: Gilfoyle said, is dout do not buying next to her?
Speaker 6: Yes, you can't.
Speaker 14: You can't go in if you don't go to the debate.
Speaker 14: That's the reality.
Speaker 4: I thought they broke up.
Speaker 3: I'm just behind on everything, I guess Geenie Shanse No,
Speaker 3: Thank you, Rick Davis, thank you.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to The Sound on podcast.
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Speaker 3: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.