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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with

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Speaker 1: Captain Ron.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,

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Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to

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Speaker 2: Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.

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Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own

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Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Content,

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Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 3: the newest cases as we.

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Speaker 4: Talked with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm

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Speaker 4: Captain Ron, and today I'm joined by Greg Bishop. Greg's

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Speaker 4: a longtime UFO researcher, author, and radio host known for

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Speaker 4: his balanced and critical approach to the UFO phenomenon, which

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Speaker 4: is right up my alley. Since the early nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 4: he has been a prominent voice in the field, emphasizing

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Speaker 4: open minded inquiry while challenging unverified claims. His work is

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Speaker 4: characterized by skepticism paired with curiosity. He often stresses that

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Speaker 4: UFO research is less about definitive answers and more about

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Speaker 4: exploring human perception, culture, and the interaction with the unknown. Hey, Greg,

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Speaker 4: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Hi Ron, thanks for having me on. Finally cool.

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Speaker 4: I know, I don't know how you've slipped through the cracks,

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Speaker 4: my friend. I'm really glad to have you here. So

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Speaker 4: you've been looking at this very simil people rational and

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Speaker 4: easy to digest topic of UFO phenomenon for a very

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Speaker 4: long I expect you're going to give us a definitive

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Speaker 4: answer as to what's happening. Do you have that answer?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, don't believe in anything.

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Speaker 4: I'm on board.

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Speaker 5: Believe in your discernment and believe in your interest because

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Speaker 5: that's going to carry you. If you're interested in something,

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Speaker 5: you're going to dig into it. You know, that's like

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Speaker 5: the simplest thing. And if somebody says they have the answer,

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Speaker 5: and they got to tell you the answer and they're

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Speaker 5: absolutely right, run the other direction really fast. I guess

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Speaker 5: it's that way with anything but especially with this subject.

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Speaker 4: I agree one hundred percent. You and I are very aligned.

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Speaker 4: Were in a very similar place. You even had a

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Speaker 4: magazine called The Excluded Middle, which is just how I

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Speaker 4: always feel. I feel surrounded by extreme skeptics and extreme

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Speaker 4: believers in all of these aspects of the phenomenon, and

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Speaker 4: I just can't go to either place. I think there's

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Speaker 4: two things I've heard you say that you know for sure.

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Speaker 4: Number one, something is happening. Number two, there's an intelligence

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Speaker 4: behind it. And I think that's about spot on fair,

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Speaker 4: and I agree one thousand percent.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I've talked to so many people. I haven't had

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Speaker 5: any I mean, I've had a couple of like close sightings,

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Speaker 5: I guess, or one close sighting, but nothing where I

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Speaker 5: had communication or anything like that. But you'd have to

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Speaker 5: be just the most fundamental ast skeptic, which is what

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Speaker 5: I call skeptics that don't even want to listen to

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Speaker 5: not realize that something's going on and it's coming from

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Speaker 5: outside the consciousness of the person that's experiencing it, and

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Speaker 5: it has a purpose or it has an intelligence, and

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Speaker 5: it does react to you, so you know that's consciousness.

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Speaker 5: It'll mimic you it'll surprise you to do all kinds

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Speaker 5: of these things. That's second part of that statement was, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: there is something that interacts with us occasionally. I mean,

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Speaker 5: as sure as I can be about that.

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Speaker 4: I've come to agree with that one hundred percent. I

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Speaker 4: also tend to believe that things are all interconnected, between

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Speaker 4: synchronicities and different things that happen. I'm just convinced that

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Speaker 4: there is some sort of a field, there's something that

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Speaker 4: keeps us all interconnected in some way.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's the field of consciousness. It's you know,

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Speaker 5: it's that idea that your consciousness is part of a

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Speaker 5: larger one and it's not located inside your brain. And

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Speaker 5: I'm pretty much down with that idea. And if that's

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Speaker 5: the case, then everybody's connected, just like Indra's net or

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Speaker 5: whatever you want to call it. It's everything communicates through

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Speaker 5: whatever this substrate is. And you know, consciousness can encompass

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Speaker 5: everything in plant life and animals, of course we're animals,

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Speaker 5: and maybe even rocks and things. I was having a

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Speaker 5: discussion with a friend today and I brought up that

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Speaker 5: Alan Watts idea about if there's rocks, if you wait

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Speaker 5: around long enough, they'll start walking around and talking and

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Speaker 5: interacting with each other and saying hi to you. It's

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Speaker 5: just a proper and inherent property of matter that it

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Speaker 5: becomes conscious eventually.

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Speaker 4: I love that idea. I've heard that notion before and

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Speaker 4: I think that is fascinating. It makes it all very

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Speaker 4: difficult studying the subject because we're dealing with an unknown

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Speaker 4: so we're not going to get the actual answer. But

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean it's not worthy of scientific study or

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Speaker 4: individual exploration, right, Oh.

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Speaker 5: Of course not. For the longest time, I was saying,

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Speaker 5: and I still think that it's that science. And I've

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Speaker 5: spoke at mouf On about this science in the way

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Speaker 5: that we practice it classically, the scientific method doesn't work

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Speaker 5: with UFOs exactly because you can't repeat things, you can't

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Speaker 5: control it, you can't put it in a lab. But

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Speaker 5: there's also sociology and psychology and things like that where

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Speaker 5: you gather information and you try to make an educated

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Speaker 5: guess as to what that information is telling you. So

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Speaker 5: I think that's what science is starting to change now,

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Speaker 5: and it is truly.

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Speaker 4: And it's led by people like Avi Loban others who says, yes,

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Speaker 4: you can't do the scientific method of repeating it because

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Speaker 4: it's not possible because we're studying something so far away,

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Speaker 4: so it's not repeatable. But that doesn't mean it can't

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Speaker 4: be provable or known or real.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, and it can be looked at with the

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Speaker 5: tools of science. But I also hasten to add, and

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Speaker 5: I've been talking about this for a while, that like,

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Speaker 5: there's two halves of your brain. The right, the left

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Speaker 5: hemisphere is usually or at least the left brain is

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Speaker 5: usually concerned with logic and mathematics and things like that,

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Speaker 5: and the right brain is the creative intuitive side. And

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Speaker 5: there's not too much creative intuitive euthology. And that's a

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Speaker 5: real simple phrase for what I'm trying to do. But

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Speaker 5: I'm trying to look at it from that side because

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Speaker 5: my trainings in art and art history. I'm trying to

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Speaker 5: apply that to the UFO subject.

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Speaker 4: Cool. You know, it's hard to get our tiny little

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Speaker 4: human brains around this phenomenon, like, let alone adding in

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Speaker 4: all the noise out there and the intentional misinformation and disinformation.

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Speaker 4: You know, you did a deep dive into this in

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Speaker 4: your book Project Beta, where you chronicled how Paul Benewitz

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Speaker 4: was intentionally misled by disinformation that's a very famous case,

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Speaker 4: and your book went in depth into this. Did that

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Speaker 4: change your view of the whole UFO topic for you?

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Speaker 5: I was kind of getting back into it at that point,

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Speaker 5: well not at that point, but i'd been into it

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Speaker 5: for ten or fifteen years. But I was reading a

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Speaker 5: lot when I was a kid, and the government thing

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Speaker 5: was part of it, but not really And that became

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Speaker 5: really big in the eighties and nineties, and that's when

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Speaker 5: this Benowitz stuf happened. And Benowitz died three weeks before

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Speaker 5: I started the book.

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Speaker 4: Oh you're kidding, Wow.

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Speaker 5: And I went into his office and his son kicked

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Speaker 5: me out when I told him what I was doing,

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Speaker 5: what I wanted to ask him. It didn't really change

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Speaker 5: my ideas about government interaction with the UFO subject. What

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Speaker 5: it changed was my view of how that happens and

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Speaker 5: what happens. And so when people ask me about the book,

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Speaker 5: I said, you know what it is. It's a spy

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Speaker 5: book with UFO trappings. It's a spy story, it's not

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Speaker 5: a UFO book. You know, in the course of that,

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Speaker 5: you start to realize, how do you discern when you're

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Speaker 5: getting this info veedgie? You can't always you kind of

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Speaker 5: have to listen and then kind of make your mind

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Speaker 5: up later. Unless you can do it right away. You

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Speaker 5: can spot bs right away. Sometimes there's the first chapter

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Speaker 5: one of my books is called you play the Game

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Speaker 5: or You Get Nothing. You have you're interested in this

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Speaker 5: stuff in the government angle of it, you have to

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Speaker 5: interact with the people and people that might be lying

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Speaker 5: to you or people that might be misleading you. But

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Speaker 5: the thing is, if you're interacting with them, sometimes you

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Speaker 5: get some of that information that you might need. They

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Speaker 5: may inadvertently let some of it slip, who knows, But

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Speaker 5: if you engage with it for a while, things start

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Speaker 5: to fall into place for you.

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Speaker 4: Do you know a guy named Walter Bosley.

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Speaker 5: Yes, he's a friend of mine. I'm talking to him

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Speaker 5: in a while, but I.

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Speaker 4: Ket him on this show a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 4: and he's awesome, and he was talking about how they

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Speaker 4: do that, how it's just a nudge. They're not like

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Speaker 4: bringing up all this fake information or doing anything elaborate.

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Speaker 4: It's just, Oh, you think that that's what that might be.

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Speaker 4: They'll confirm, Yeah, I think that's what it is too.

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Speaker 4: Just that little nudge is enough to get people that

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Speaker 4: way they control the narrative, and I found that fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's controlling the message

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Speaker 5: or perception management. But the thing is, the best perception

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Speaker 5: management is when the target thinks they came up with

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Speaker 5: it themselves.

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Speaker 4: Right, That's exactly what he said.

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Speaker 5: So you push them in that director Walter, who was

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Speaker 5: in the OSI or force offsens just like Richard Doty,

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Speaker 5: who is part of the subject of my book, and

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Speaker 5: he knew about Doughty. I said, what did you know

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Speaker 5: about Rick Doty? And he said, I never met him.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know him, but he was used as an

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Speaker 5: example of what not to do.

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Speaker 4: Paid that on our show. Bree's a big fan, so

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Speaker 4: he mentioned that on our show, So we got.

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Speaker 5: To kick out.

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Speaker 4: How can we tell what information to trust? How do

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Speaker 4: you discern how much of this is intentional disinformation, misinformation

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Speaker 4: or even misidentification? How do you sift through all this research.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how to give advice on that. The

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Speaker 5: only advice I have is pay attention for a long

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Speaker 5: time and stay interested. And also if you think you

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Speaker 5: have the answer, then back up. Or if somebody's telling

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Speaker 5: you something and you don't know them real well, and

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Speaker 5: you know they're not like a good friend of yours

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Speaker 5: and you agree with everything they say or they say,

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Speaker 5: look at this, then I'd start to get a little

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Speaker 5: bit suspicious or even a you know, a speaker at

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Speaker 5: a conference or something that says, I saw this, I

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Speaker 5: experience this. If it flatters your prejudices, it's automatically expect

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Speaker 5: in my estimation. Doesn't have to be wrong, doesn't have

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Speaker 5: to be a lie. But if you're really excited about

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Speaker 5: some information, take a step back.

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Speaker 4: You know, in your work, you seem to be okay

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Speaker 4: and comfortable knowing that we're not going to get to

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Speaker 4: the real answer, and I just can't get there. It

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Speaker 4: drives me crazy. I want to get some sort of

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Speaker 4: handle on the topic. I want to uncover more. But

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Speaker 4: you're at peace with it. You're not even discouraged that

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Speaker 4: we're not going to get the answer.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. I mean, if we get some kind of answer,

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Speaker 5: it's going to be by a mistake I think, or

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Speaker 5: by surprise, and it's not going to be what we expect.

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Speaker 5: It might be like what we expect, but not exactly

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Speaker 5: with this extremely weird twist that we didn't expect. It's

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Speaker 5: encoded in what you expect, So it's reflexive with what

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Speaker 5: your expectations are. And I don't care if we don't

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Speaker 5: have an answer. I've got lots of answers. I've got

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Speaker 5: lots of friends, I've got lots of incredible people I've

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Speaker 5: talked to and books I've read, and these are exciting.

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Speaker 5: And if I don't get an answer, I kind of

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Speaker 5: don't care because my answer is yes, it exists.

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Speaker 4: You know I am envious of you because I cannot

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Speaker 4: get past it. Well, listen, we got to take a

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Speaker 4: quick break here, Greg. When we come back, we're going

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Speaker 4: to ask Greg his thoughts on how people's experience with

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Speaker 4: the phenomenon may have more to do with the observer's

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Speaker 4: mindset than anything else. You're listening to Beyond Contact on

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Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.

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Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact we speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,

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Speaker 4: you also seem to lean into the experiences people claim

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Speaker 4: to have with the phenomenon and suggest that they may

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Speaker 4: have more to do with them and their mindset than

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Speaker 4: it being a separate, independent thing that happened on its own.

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Speaker 4: Can you elaborate on that for us?

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Speaker 5: Well, it is a separate, independent thing that happened on

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Speaker 5: its own, but we're experiencing it, so there's no way

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Speaker 5: around it. It's like if you experience a rock falling,

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Speaker 5: It's like, Okay, I know what a rock looks like,

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Speaker 5: I know what happens when it falls. But if you

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Speaker 5: have a UFO experience, you're going to have to try

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Speaker 5: and figure out how to integrate that into your psychology

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Speaker 5: so it doesn't make you nuts. A lot of people

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Speaker 5: just shut it out. So I wrote something a while

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Speaker 5: ago called a co creation hypothesis. I mean, it sounds

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Speaker 5: all high minded and like I came up with that.

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Speaker 5: I did not come up up with it at all.

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Speaker 5: What the essay was was how much is going on

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Speaker 5: that's coming from the phenomenon, and how much is coming

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Speaker 5: from us? And I said, it could be almost nothing

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Speaker 5: from us, or it could be almost everything from us.

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Speaker 5: Probably it's somewhere in between those things. And it depends

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Speaker 5: on the person and it depends on the experience. But

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Speaker 5: we have to, you know, include ourselves as part of

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Speaker 5: the data as an instrument. You know, we've got instruments

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Speaker 5: like cameras and tapercorders, and you know, spectrographs and all

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Speaker 5: that to study things. The human mind is also also

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Speaker 5: a very good instrument, but it's not those instruments, and

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Speaker 5: it is affected by memory, it's affected by personality. Who

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Speaker 5: you talk to last, is a cop talking to you?

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Speaker 5: Or is a ufologist talking to you? All these things

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Speaker 5: are going to affect how you remember this extremely startling thing.

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Speaker 5: There's parallels in trauma psychology too. What can your mind

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Speaker 5: handle to keep you on an even keel after this

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Speaker 5: completely mind blowing experience? It is for a lot of people. Actually,

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Speaker 5: the closer it is, obviously it's going to be more

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Speaker 5: mind blowing. I think that the human instrument is counted

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Speaker 5: out one as a good source of information by science

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Speaker 5: and two as people thinking it's inaccurate. It's like, it's

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Speaker 5: not inaccurate, it's just accurate if you consider what the

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Speaker 5: human nervous system and memory in psychology does and how

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Speaker 5: it deals with information like that.

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Speaker 4: What about stories we hear when people were really distressed

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Speaker 4: in their lives, Well, they'll often report that that's when

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Speaker 4: they had a UFO experience of some kind, The report

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Speaker 4: that they were struggling in their own personal life. Even

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Speaker 4: like Chris Bledsoe talks about this, how he was so

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Speaker 4: down and so depressed and that's when this started happening

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Speaker 4: to him. Do you think that that makes their claim

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Speaker 4: more or less credible, because to me, it introduces the

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Speaker 4: idea that perhaps they were imagining this to compensate or

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Speaker 4: distract from their other human issues.

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Speaker 5: I don't know the first thing that comes to mind

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Speaker 5: when you say that. As my late friend, Earl Gray Anderson,

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Speaker 5: he was a moof On investigator. The most important thing

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Speaker 5: he told me was he said, if I don't hear

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Speaker 5: something from them that doesn't make sense, I automatically start

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Speaker 5: to doubt their story. Because if somebody tells you I

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Speaker 5: saw a UFO and then my dead grandmother called me

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Speaker 5: the next day, it's like, why would they include that?

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Speaker 5: If they wanted you to believe them, they wouldn't. So

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Speaker 5: I think the weirdness is an intricate part of it.

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Speaker 5: It's an intimate, an intricate part of it. It has

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Speaker 5: to be taken into account. A lot of UFO's stories

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Speaker 5: are completely insane. Well, since it's like, you're trying to

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Speaker 5: tell me a story, make me believe it. But if

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Speaker 5: you tell me you know, my dog talked to me

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Speaker 5: that night, it's like, why would you tell me that?

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Speaker 5: Now I would normally I would think you were insane,

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Speaker 5: But for me and people like Earl, it's like, Wow,

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Speaker 5: tell me more, you know, don't be afraid to tell

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Speaker 5: me just the most insane stuff, because one it will

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Speaker 5: more information will come out and the person will trust

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Speaker 5: you more. And two that information might be really important

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Speaker 5: even though it sounds insane at the moment.

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Speaker 4: With another story, Yeah, what about the idea that witnesses

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Speaker 4: or contact these are sometimes actually manifesting these events.

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Speaker 5: I think it could be, as we were talking before,

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Speaker 5: it's an interaction. Also, I think if people have repeated

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Speaker 5: contacts or something like that, and sometimes they don't have

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Speaker 5: the contacts, they're going to bridge some of those things

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Speaker 5: with other things that will make them believe more in

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Speaker 5: their own story. Doesn't mean they were lying. Like Yuri Geller,

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Speaker 5: he's been caught cheating. I don't think that means he's

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Speaker 5: a complete fake and a charlotton And I just think

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Speaker 5: it means he had to show something when the pressure

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Speaker 5: was on, so he did his magic trick or whatever

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Speaker 5: it's baked in. My friend Josh Kutchen says that he

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Speaker 5: told me this a long time ago. The weirdness, the

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Speaker 5: stuff that doesn't make sense is baked into it and

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Speaker 5: you just have to accept it.

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Speaker 4: The ones they ought we cheated, and then the dish

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Speaker 4: write them off. It's a shame.

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Speaker 5: Binary thinking is wrong for uthology. It just is bad.

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Speaker 5: You can't think in a bin area true or false,

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Speaker 5: Yes or new that's true.

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Speaker 4: You've said that myth and culture shape how we experience UFOs.

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Speaker 4: What do you think of, for example, like the fifties

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Speaker 4: and those contact d stories we heard from the fifties,

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Speaker 4: were they really reflecting society at that time more than

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Speaker 4: anything else?

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Speaker 5: You think, yeah, well, you know what it goes probably

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Speaker 5: goes back to cocreation. What was everybody worried about being

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Speaker 5: annihilated in ten minutes by a nuclear bomb. That's what

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Speaker 5: everybody's biggest fear was. So here were space people telling us,

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Speaker 5: get rid of those things, start getting along with each other,

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Speaker 5: take care of the planet. All these things we know anyway,

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Speaker 5: but it's just it's reflected back to them and something

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Speaker 5: that is bigger than them, that takes the place of

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Speaker 5: some kind of traditional religion. And I think people a

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Speaker 5: lot of the contacts and people that were following them

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Speaker 5: were tired of a traditional religion and the top down

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Speaker 5: aspect of it and the fact that you were kind

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Speaker 5: of distant from whatever that deity was. But space people,

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Speaker 5: you could almost be certain that at some point you

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Speaker 5: might get to meet one and you could ask him

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Speaker 5: these questions that were very important to you.

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Speaker 4: And you know what's interesting is like people like Farakhn

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Speaker 4: with the Nation of Islam have had these experiences and

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Speaker 4: they say the occupants of the UFO were black people. Like,

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Speaker 4: it's just saying how they see it from their lens

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Speaker 4: and that's what they experience. So that fits right in

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Speaker 4: there with what you're saying. What about today? You know,

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Speaker 4: the UFO imagery now and stories have proliferated society starting

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Speaker 4: back and let's say the seventies when it started kind

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Speaker 4: of coming out. Then it exploded in twenty seventeen. Nowadays

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Speaker 4: it's everywhere. It's in the Super Bowl commercials. You can't

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Speaker 4: not see it everywhere today. So do you think that

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Speaker 4: that is reflecting our society now as well? Same way?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think it's reflecting a lot of uncertainty about

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Speaker 5: things and that you know, what's the biggest secret that

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Speaker 5: everybody think the government is holding things about drug deals

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Speaker 5: or whatever. But around contour, whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 5: even Epstein, whatever's going on. Now. The other big secret,

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Speaker 5: one of the biggest secrets and the most popular one,

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Speaker 5: is the UFO secret. And so I think that since

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Speaker 5: that was pushed a little bit from the government side,

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Speaker 5: people are very receptive to that. It's like, oh, you're

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Speaker 5: going to talk about it now, Okay, you've been shutting

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Speaker 5: up about it for this long And so there was

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Speaker 5: a very receptive audience. And I think that was kind

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Speaker 5: of by design by whoever decided to make this popular

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Speaker 5: right now for whatever reason, because I don't think this

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Speaker 5: is for disclosure. It's for some other reason.

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Speaker 4: It's like Bosley says, they're just trying to control the narrative.

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Speaker 4: There must be some reason for that, and I'm on

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Speaker 4: that camp as well. I don't think they want to

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Speaker 4: share with us sorts some noble reason they're doing this. Now,

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Speaker 4: you made this argument that UFOs maybe more about perception

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Speaker 4: and consciousness than physical spacecraft. Let's say, what led you

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Speaker 4: to that conclusion?

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Speaker 5: All the reading I've done, people i've interviewed, the quote

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Speaker 5: I think think of is Jacques Vallet's quote. He says

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Speaker 5: if it turns out to be people coming in spaceships

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Speaker 5: from other planets, I'm going to be really disappointed because

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Speaker 5: if it's people coming into spaceships from other planets, why

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Speaker 5: are there so many of them? Why do they need

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Speaker 5: to keep looking at us and sampling things and taking DNA?

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Speaker 5: It's like, we can already manipulate DNA. What are they

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Speaker 5: doing taking hours? So the nuts and bolts way of

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Speaker 5: thinking of it, to me, does not account for everything,

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Speaker 5: and in fact it's negated by a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 5: How many times do they have to come and take

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Speaker 5: soil samples?

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Speaker 4: I think there's no doubt that the whole community has

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Speaker 4: moved forward with this thought. In fact, that leads me

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Speaker 4: in the next question I want to ask you, which

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Speaker 4: is I feel like this all keeps getting more and

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Speaker 4: more elusive as we uncover more the whole SI element

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Speaker 4: to this. Now, the consciousness aspect of this has really

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Speaker 4: gained momentum, and I don't believe this is going to

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Speaker 4: be a clear cut, simple answer. You know, it's all

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Speaker 4: so interconnected with other aspects of the human experience, like

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Speaker 4: it's seems somehow tied to the afterlife. Whitley and other

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Speaker 4: people have mentioned that it ties to the afterlife. Well,

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Speaker 4: it's just not going to be that simple. We're not

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Speaker 4: going to get this simple answer. You die and you

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Speaker 4: get access to this and you get to see that.

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Speaker 4: I feel like it's going to be this multiple threads

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Speaker 4: of phenomenon are happening simultaneous, Like there's probably life on

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Speaker 4: other worlds in our universe, and there's also probably after

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Speaker 4: life realms, and there's probably also other dimensions as well.

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Speaker 4: It could go on and get very deep and complex.

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Speaker 4: What do you think.

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Speaker 5: I think that the nexus of all the stuff that

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Speaker 5: you just said is the human mind, of the human consciousness,

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Speaker 5: and that's it. And the second thing I think of

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Speaker 5: when you say those things is language is inadequate to

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Speaker 5: explain what we're talking about, and we think in our language.

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Speaker 5: The language is going to affect how we think about it.

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Speaker 5: And if we don't have the language for something, we

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Speaker 5: can't talk about it. People that have had NDEs, a

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Speaker 5: lot of abductees. I just said, I can't communicate this

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Speaker 5: in language. It's just so beyond what I can describe

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Speaker 5: in language.

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Speaker 4: And that makes perfect sense to me. Because we don't

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Speaker 4: know this realm, how can we even talk about it?

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Speaker 4: We're going to take a quick break here. Greg, we

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Speaker 4: come back. We're going to ask you about what school

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Speaker 4: of thought on this phenomenon might be the closest to

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Speaker 4: reality in your view. You're listening to Beyond Contact on

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Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

433
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,

434
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 4: what are the more interesting schools of thought that you've

435
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 4: come across researching this topic? You know, as to what

436
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 4: the explanation may be. Do you have something that maybe

437
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 4: rings more true to you than others.

438
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 5: I don't know if anything rings more true, but because

439
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 5: of my personality, I'm always looking at the thing that

440
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 5: nobody else is looking at, even if it's bs, because

441
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 5: I think if nobody's looking at it, maybe there's something

442
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 5: interesting there. It's funny you said, so many of these

443
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 5: ideas have become more popular in the last what seven

444
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 5: or eight years now, since twenty seventeen, since Leslie Kayne's article.

445
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 5: That's because everybody's looking everybody, and all these explanations have

446
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 5: pluses and minuses, and none of them explain the whole thing.

447
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 5: You know, the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. The etch

448
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 5: doesn't explain everything, psychosocial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. But all

449
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 5: of them together are have their hands around that big

450
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 5: elephant with the blind man, you know, right, sure, a

451
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 5: piece of it, but they can't see the whole elephant,

452
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 5: because I don't think in our minds we can conceive

453
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 5: of that elephant, at least until we start thinking in

454
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 5: a different way. And I think maybe the studying this

455
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 5: pulls you into all these different modes of thought, and

456
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 5: somewhere in all those different modes of thought is probably

457
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 5: some sort of answer. But the reason Whitley and Anne

458
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 5: Strieber said it had something to do with death, it's

459
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 5: probably because you don't. Really The only way you can

460
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 5: experience what that might be is being unhooked from your

461
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 5: body and not having to deal with language and other

462
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 5: people and whatever the way we deal in the physical world.

463
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 5: That might be the only way of getting an answer

464
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 5: about this and finding out that it's all you know,

465
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 5: like you said at the beginning, that all comes from

466
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 5: the same source, or at least comes through the same source.

467
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 4: You brought up a guy's name a few minutes ago

468
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 4: that you said was your friend, Joshua Kutchen. He wrote

469
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 4: this thing, The Ecology of Souls, which I'm very new

470
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 4: to this. His ideas on the surface feels like it

471
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 4: might kind of ring true to a degree, like he's

472
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 4: got an interesting take on this whole thing.

473
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, he does. He's basically just hid the premises. What

474
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 5: I just said is that you don't understand what's going

475
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 5: on until you enter the afterlife. And when you do,

476
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 5: you say, some people with NDEs and out of body

477
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 5: experiences starts talking and saying some of the same things

478
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 5: that UFO experiences and abductees have been saying. Josh is

479
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 5: a great friend. His books are very important, But I

480
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 5: think it's just one piece of the puzzle, and.

481
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 4: There are other guys out there with other little pieces.

482
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: Donald Hoffman the interface theory of perception. Our perceptions are

483
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 4: not necessarily a true reflection of object reality that maybe

484
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 4: you know through evolution, we only learn or know what

485
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 4: we need to We may not need to know that

486
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 4: there's a vibration of an alien being that's just one

487
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 4: another vibrational existence next to us, and that might not

488
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 4: apply to us.

489
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 5: I use Hoffman in talks. Actually do you Yeah, A

490
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 5: long time somebody told me about him like ten years

491
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 5: ago when his first book came out. I said, oh

492
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 5: my god, this is fascinating. It is that, you know,

493
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 5: if people don't know about Hoffman, and you sort of

494
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 5: explained it here. But his idea is that our perceptions

495
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 5: are determined by evolution. What's important to us, what is

496
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 5: going to keep us alive, keep us fed, perpetrate the species,

497
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 5: keep us out of danger. Those are the primary things

498
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: that we care about, and so all other perceptions flow

499
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 5: from that. You know, are you in danger? All these

500
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 5: things come into play when you are faced with an

501
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 5: unfamiliar scenario and they encounter a UFO or something that

502
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 5: comes out of it or another intelligence is certainly beyond

503
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 5: your normal experience. And he said, well, all we can

504
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 5: look at it is as can it hurt us or

505
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: can it not? Do we need to leave or do

506
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 5: we not? All these things come into play, and this

507
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 5: is going to affect how we remember things. And I

508
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 5: think that's another good piece of the puzzle. You know,

509
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 5: what happens later, What do you remember that helps you

510
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 5: integrate the experience so you're not sitting there going nuts

511
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 5: for the rest of your life.

512
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 4: I like that there's all these guys out there that

513
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 4: are adding another brick in the wall to me like

514
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: they're helping man there. You know, it just helps me

515
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 4: look at these things objectively or with a new perspective,

516
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 4: if you will.

517
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, the gumble in my head is always having ingredients

518
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 5: added to it, and so it just it just keeps

519
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: cooking and cooking and cooking. He gets more and more,

520
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 5: you know. Sure as I get older and you know,

521
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 5: talk to more people and read more things, they all

522
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 5: get added in there. And you know, some of them,

523
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 5: some of them are more attractive of me than others.

524
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 5: And the ones we've been talking about are the ones

525
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 5: that are attractive to me. Doesn't mean they're right, It

526
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 5: just means that I'm interested in those things. Something you

527
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 5: can make a breakthrough or at least have a little

528
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 5: better understanding of what you're dealing with.

529
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know. The Hoffin idea also reminds me of

530
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: things like, for example, in the late seventeenth century, when

531
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 4: we first discovered micro organisms. You know, up until then,

532
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 4: we never even thought about that or imagined that that.

533
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: By the way, there's a billion microbes in your stomach.

534
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 4: What nobody knew this, nobody even knew that be something

535
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 4: on your hand. Suddenly everyone understands the best part of

536
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: the world. And I feel like that's sort of the

537
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 4: same kind of thing.

538
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, well that's what's going on with UFOs.

539
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 5: But we cannot understand in the ways we've understood that

540
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 5: physical science has understood other things, taking it as to

541
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 5: the moon and gotten rid of all diseases and makes

542
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 5: our cell phone work, and we're talking right now because

543
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 5: of it. But it's not going to answer questions about

544
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 5: meaning are about mysteries like this. It has to evolve,

545
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 5: and we have to evolve our thinking. I have a

546
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 5: friend who's a professor of anthropology, and he said, we

547
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 5: have to think about this. You know how they used

548
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 5: to have those magic eye photos or pictures where you'd

549
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 5: have to stare at it for a while and then

550
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 5: after a while you'd see a pattern or like a

551
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 5: three D. He said, that's what we need to do

552
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 5: with the UFO study. We have to start looking in

553
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 5: a different way. Said I don't know what that different

554
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 5: way is, but I do know it has to do

555
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 5: with working on ourselves and how we deal with reality

556
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: and deal with spirituality, and deal with how we interpret

557
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 5: our world and interpret things around us.

558
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 4: I feel like it's something that maybe in a thousand

559
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 4: years we still don't have a handle on it, you know, could.

560
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 5: Be that's okay, we'll have handles on lots of other

561
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 5: things before then, if we're still around, if.

562
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 4: We make it that long. What about this notion we

563
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: hear about how it seems people are actually able to

564
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: affect the UFO craft, like in a CE five experience

565
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 4: for example, or things like the Skywatcher where they claim

566
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 4: to be able to control or even land these objects psychically.

567
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 4: What do you think about those things?

568
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 5: You say that, and like, all these ideas start exploding

569
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 5: in my head, right, and the main one goes back

570
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 5: to my co creation thing. It's like, well, you expect

571
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 5: this thing to happen, and it happens, And it doesn't

572
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 5: mean it's made up, and it doesn't mean it's not real.

573
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 5: It just means that there's an intimate interaction with your

574
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 5: or the group's consciousness about what's going on. If you

575
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 5: didn't think about it at all, I suppose it would

576
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 5: do whatever. But the fact that you think you're in

577
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 5: sort of contact with it or you are, I think

578
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 5: affects the experience. And there's another thing that was pointed

579
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 5: out by my anthropologists friend. He said, mimicry is one

580
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 5: of the most basic forms of communication, mimicry even being

581
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 5: you know, I wave the light around, and then the light,

582
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 5: you know, whatever the UFO is waves around too.

583
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: This happens at zoo with animals. You literally do your

584
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: arm in the animal, a tiger or a gorilla, whatever

585
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: will mimic that sometimes.

586
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that whatever is behind the UFO, it has

587
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 5: some sort of consciousness, It has the wherewithal to figure

588
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 5: out if I mimic what you're doing. That's a primitive

589
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 5: form of communication. It's a very basic form of communication.

590
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 5: I mean, they could have brought a tulpa up and

591
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 5: it's just something that's there because everybody thought it should

592
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 5: be there. I don't know, it's fascinating that people can

593
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 5: do that. At first, I kind of like poop pooed that.

594
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 5: Then I talked to people that had been on these things.

595
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 5: They said, no, I saw these things and they did

596
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: these things. There were people that some of them weren't

597
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 5: even into UFOs at first, with Stephen Greer or or

598
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 5: or Melinda Leslie or whatever, and there they said, guff happened.

599
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 5: I couldn't believe Chris Bledsoe too. I don't know, five

600
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: six years ago people went they probably still do it,

601
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 5: went to his property and said, I saw stuff that

602
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 5: I did not expect if he was faking it, he's

603
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 5: got all kinds of equipment to do it.

604
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 4: All doing that hardcore even to this day.

605
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw him at contact when he was doing it.

606
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 4: The fact that it would happen at all is incredible.

607
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: And Skywatcher seems to talk like they actually have some

608
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: dog disill ability to make this work. I'm curious. By

609
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: the end of the year they claim they're going to

610
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: let us know.

611
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, yeah, I hope so. I mean, there's so

612
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 5: many promises in the UFO world now, I know.

613
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 4: Man grain of Salt. You know, some the Native American

614
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 4: cultures just see this phenomenon as part of the natural world.

615
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: Could this phenomenon be as simple as a technological leap away,

616
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 4: like how we discovered more galaxies when we got better telescopes.

617
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 4: Do you think the onset of new technologies like AI

618
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 4: or new telescopes will get us closer to an answer?

619
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 5: You know what's funny when you mentioned that, the first

620
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 5: thing I thought of was the tik tak stuff and

621
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: the Navy stuff that started all this off, and how

622
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 5: they said that changing their sensor apparatus it seemed to

623
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 5: either allow them to see the anomalies or it called

624
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: them in, attracted them, or both. I think that might happen,

625
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 5: and it will probably be an accident, and it also

626
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: probably won't work every time. And as far as you

627
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 5: mentioned AI, I've been talking to lots of people that

628
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 5: are working on this where they are taking databases and

629
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 5: they are throwing different questions into AI about at these

630
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 5: databases to try and find patterns that haven't been seen before,

631
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 5: and see AI can go in and do this like

632
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 5: huge meta analysis of thousands of thousands and thousands of cases,

633
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 5: just saying let's narrow it down here. Let's talk about

634
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: a time of day, let's talk about blood type, let's

635
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 5: talk about where you want a car, where you're walking,

636
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 5: you know, what time of day, what fire of the earth.

637
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 5: These patterns may may start to reveal themselves. And if

638
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 5: that's the case, maybe you can go where these patterns

639
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 5: are all intersecting and do your you know, CE five.

640
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 4: I think AI could make a huge difference to this's

641
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: just the ability to call all that data could make

642
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: a game changer for us. You're listening to Beyond Contact

643
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.

644
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact segment four. Here we're

645
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 4: speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg if not human intelligence, this

646
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: is are in fact interacting with us. What do you

647
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: think their purpose might be? And I know we're dealing

648
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: with an unknown by ice. Wanted to see if you

649
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 4: had a guess or a feeling after looking at this

650
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: for so many years.

651
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 5: I think it's just a basic curiosity and wanting to

652
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 5: connect with something else that they see as also conscious

653
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 5: like themselves. Or maybe it's you know, another part of

654
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 5: them that they've lost. Who knows. But if we encountered

655
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 5: in aliens, I mean, non human and intelligent, we'd want

656
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 5: to communicate and see what it was too, Like what

657
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 5: is this doing over here? One of Diana Pasoulka's books,

658
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 5: the last one she talked about Doctor Io Whiteley, She's

659
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 5: trying to use AI to figure out whale language. Who

660
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 5: knows if that if those patterns are cracked, what will happen?

661
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 5: Are we going to say something to the whales where

662
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: they go? WHOA? Well, okay, now we get it. Now

663
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: we have to kill all of you because you're a

664
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 5: danger of this planet. Or maybe they'll just be curious

665
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 5: and say, you know, can you come play ball with us? Certainly,

666
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 5: you know, other intelligent species on this planet are interested

667
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 5: in nuts. I mean you go to you said, you

668
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 5: go to the zoo, and animals will either mimic you.

669
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 5: I used to go to the zoo and just take

670
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 5: a little piece of grass and put it, put it

671
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 5: through the bars. Every animal come to see what was

672
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 5: going on. It's just it's an inherent property of intelligence.

673
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 5: It's curiosity, sure, you know.

674
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: And if they are in our universe, we're not talking

675
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: about interplanetary or interdimensional right now, but if they are

676
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 4: in our universe physically, the fact that they've even come

677
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: here shows they are curious, that they're willing to come

678
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: this far to look at this right.

679
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 5: Or maybe it's not far for them at all. I

680
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 5: was talking to a friend, David Weatherley, who's a Bigfoot researcher,

681
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 5: and I said, David, Bigfoot paranormal or physical? And he said,

682
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: why not both? Maybe Bigfoot can walk through to another

683
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 5: time the way we walk through a door. Just said

684
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 5: I want to be there, And suddenly they'll be walk

685
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: behind a tree and be somewhere else ten years later.

686
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 5: Who knows, and whatever this intelligence is, maybe it can

687
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 5: do that too. A friend of mine told me when

688
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 5: his mother died, he communicated with her after and she

689
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 5: said it was so wonderful because she could go anywhere

690
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 5: in history, at any time and at any place, so

691
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 5: freeing and wonderful, wonderful for her because there were no

692
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 5: questions left and she was completely happy with it.

693
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 4: That's what I'll be happy when there's no questions left.

694
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: So I guess I look forward to that because I supposedly,

695
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 4: you know, would have access to the Akashak record. We

696
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 4: will be able to see and know everything. Wouldn't that

697
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 4: be awesome?

698
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yet these things are still curious about us because

699
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 5: there's more to know for them.

700
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 4: Right. What about your thoughts on, for example, DMT experiences

701
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 4: where people claim to have encountered beings in that realm?

702
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 4: What do you think about that.

703
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 5: It's a way to switch channels in your brain and

704
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 5: see things you wouldn't normally see because they people have described.

705
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 5: And Rick Strassman wrote a book about this DMT, The

706
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 5: Spirit Molecule, in the nineties, and he said he was

707
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 5: surprised when people started coming back to him with stories

708
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 5: it sounded like UFO abductions. And I think it's because,

709
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 5: as you said before, all of this source all coming

710
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 5: from the same place. I think it's just another way

711
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: to be able to communicate with these alternative consciousness conscious.

712
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 4: Is very interesting to me and telling that, yes, people

713
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 4: have that same account under DMT as people that have

714
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 4: these alien experiences. Then you have people. We just talked

715
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 4: to Sarah Brexman Cosume the other day and she says

716
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: that under hypnosis some people talk about past lives and

717
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: they interacted with beings that look and sound like an

718
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 4: alien abduction experience of today, and even NDEs have occasionally

719
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: had similar beings. Even Richard Martinez told me that he's

720
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 4: talked to people on the other side and they've talked

721
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 4: to their council they call it, and sometimes they'll be

722
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 4: like an alien gray on that person's council. It's interesting

723
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: that the same type of beings seem to show up

724
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: in so many different realms or aspects.

725
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does. I also think that as people talk

726
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 5: about it more, they have more of a way to

727
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 5: model these things. So if you'd ask somebody this question,

728
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 5: in nineteen fifty or nineteen forty or thirty or you know,

729
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 5: eighteen whatever, they would have said, Oh, well, they're you know,

730
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 5: they're they're ascended beings. They have big white robes on

731
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 5: and they're all white all that. But now it's like

732
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 5: it's almost like science fiction. There's a council and there's

733
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 5: these beings and they all have a say in things

734
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 5: and could be But also think that that's the way

735
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 5: we conceptualize whatever that weirdness is.

736
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 4: It does put a human spin on it too, because

737
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 4: that's what we would think if we would have, Oh,

738
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 4: your life's over, let's review it, Let's bring out the

739
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 4: five council members. I mean that just seems like it

740
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 4: feels like a human construct to me.

741
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 5: It doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it's the

742
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 5: way that we can conceptualize that idea or whatever is

743
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 5: going on in that realm or at that level.

744
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 4: Greg, do you have a favorite UFO case that best

745
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: points to what might be happening for you?

746
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 5: I don't have ones that point to what might be happening.

747
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 5: I have ones I like because they're just so strange.

748
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 5: The Kelly Hopkinsville one is so strange. I mean a

749
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: bunch of people in Kentucky shooting at goblins, right. I

750
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 5: like the Father Gil case from New Guinea from the

751
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 5: I love that case. There's mimicry there. They go out

752
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 5: there and there's some there's something floating up above them

753
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 5: and they all wave and the things on the top

754
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 5: of the thing.

755
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 4: Wa Yeah, like you're going off on a cruise.

756
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. So those classic ones I like. I like

757
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 5: the case of Kerry Mullis, who invented polyamorys protein analysis,

758
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 5: which was what the COVID tests are based on. He

759
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 5: got he got a Nobel Prize, but he also said

760
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 5: one time he came home, he went into the house

761
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 5: and then he thought he heard something outside. He went

762
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 5: outside and there was a glowing green raccoon and it

763
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 5: said good evening, doctor, and he passed out and he

764
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 5: woke up the next morning in his kitchen.

765
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: I diverge. See, like, when I hear weird stuff like that,

766
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 4: I'm just like, okay, no, that's just it's hard for

767
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 4: me to accept some of the one offs like that

768
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: that are that I prefer when things like repeat and

769
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 4: you've got nine cases that seem identical, you know.

770
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I mean my personality gravitates toward extremely strange

771
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 5: encounters and like and you know, I call them UFO porner.

772
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 5: I like to hear the strange story.

773
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 4: That's what people like about cost. Sometimes some of the

774
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 4: callers call in with these crazy stories and people love

775
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 4: that is some of it. You can't even write it.

776
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 3: You know.

777
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 4: What are your feelings now about the new let's call

778
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 4: it at least appearance of interest in disclosure from our

779
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 4: federal government.

780
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 5: I think it's connected to what we talked about earlier.

781
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 5: And what I think happened was somebody wanted us to

782
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 5: be interested in the subject for some reason, and it

783
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 5: had nothing to do with UFOs. Actually, I have another

784
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 5: friend of mine said, I said, what's going on now,

785
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 5: what's going on with disclosure? Why do people think it's

786
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 5: so important? He says, they always think it's about them.

787
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 5: I said, what do you mean? He says, you follow,

788
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 5: just think the government is interested in you in the

789
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 5: same way they are. They're not the government. Entities are

790
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: interested in how they can use the subject to do

791
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 5: whatever they need to do. I call UFOs for the government.

792
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 5: It's a Swiss army knife for intelligence. They can use

793
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 5: it for whatever. But there's also I think it metastasized,

794
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 5: and now there's this interest within the government where people

795
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 5: honestly do want to know about, including some of the

796
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 5: people that were first, you know, spreading these stories. I

797
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 5: think they have an honest interest in this. Like Rick Dody,

798
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 5: we were talking about him earlier. He was involved in disinformation,

799
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 5: but I also think he has an absolutely honest interest

800
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 5: in this. Whatever you think about him personally being involved

801
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 5: with us is just God. It's like a virus. It

802
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 5: gets in you and you can't get it out.

803
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: I don't know how everyone's not interested in it personally.

804
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just to me. I think one hundred

805
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 4: thousand years ago, humans wondered what happens when you die?

806
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 4: What's going on over there? As anyone else ever been here.

807
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: I think those are the two questions that we've been

808
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 4: thinking about for one hundred thousand years. From my view,

809
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: where do you think this community and the beliefs and

810
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 4: UFOs are headed? Will will will more people come on

811
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 4: board with this or do we need something more concrete

812
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 4: to bring the rest of the people on board.

813
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 5: I think people are coming on board, and they're doing

814
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 5: it openly, like people like Stanton Friedman said, with beards

815
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 5: and degrees and stuff, serious people with serious training. And

816
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 5: I think that's a good thing. I think it's an

817
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 5: excellent thing. I don't know if it's going to get

818
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 5: us an answer, but it's certainly going to open up

819
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 5: the debate and open up the theories and open up

820
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 5: how we can look at this and maybe give us

821
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 5: a little bit more of a handle on it. But

822
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 5: I do think it really needs to be in concert

823
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 5: with the right brain again, with the creative spiritual side.

824
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 5: There's there's no way around that. Whenever people have this experience,

825
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 5: invariably it changes their life, changes probably their leaf system,

826
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 5: people get divorced, they get you know, they start religions

827
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 5: or whatever. It changes their lives. And that can't be

828
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 5: explained by a row of data. I mean, it's it's

829
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 5: it's a very deep thing that happens to people. I

830
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 5: think if we can marry those two sides, we might

831
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 5: get a little closer to what this is or at

832
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: least and maybe this is the answer what is a

833
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 5: relationship to us? And maybe that's the final answer.

834
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 4: That's awesome, Greg, perfect time to stop to thank you

835
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 4: for coming on. Brother. Hey tell people where to find

836
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 4: you real quick. What's the best way to get to you.

837
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 5: My radio show, my podcast, which is in hiatus right now,

838
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 5: is Radiomisterios dot com. And then just put my name

839
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 5: into Amazon and any number of books I've written will

840
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 5: come up.

841
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: That sounds great, brother, Okay, Thanks, and you guys can

842
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 4: find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.

843
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 4: Stay connected by checking out Contact Inthdesert dot com. Stay

844
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 4: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right

845
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 4: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal

846
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 4: Podcast Network.

847
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost

848
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out

849
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

850
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com