WEBVTT - Ep. 164: BEAR GREASE [RENDER] - Plott Hound Analysis & Ken’s Reward 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.239 My name is Clay Nuckleman. This is a production of 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.400 the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render, where 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.760 we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:31.320 of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by FHF Gear 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.520 American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:43.840 to be as rugged as the place as we explore. So, Dad, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.839 Michael Roseman was just saying that he thought it was 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:53.520 pretty suspicious that we moved to Mina in the early 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.720 nineteen eighties and you became a banker and Mina right 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.120 when Barry Seal And what's the. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:00.480 Movie, Michael, don't remember that? 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:01.280 The American Dream? 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:09.000 American Dream? Yeah, with with Tom Cruise and Bill Clinton 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:13.240 and drugs and the airport and everything. Yeah. Hey man, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.640 I just don't know. You might have had something to 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:18.000 do with that. 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.000 I didn't say it was suspicious. What I said was 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.800 I watched the movie put two and two together and 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.440 text Brint and I said, Hey, I don't know Clay's daddy, 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.039 but wasn't he a banker in Miena at this time? 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:31.679 How many banks are in Mina? 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.080 There were a lot apparently. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.000 Uh, well, welcome to the bear Grease Render. Man, I've 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.120 been excited about this ever since I knew who was 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.960 going to be here. We have multiple I would say, 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:53.120 multiple new er Ish voices. I have. To my left, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.400 Brent Reeves, Brent, good to see. I want to talk 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.680 about Okay, We're gonna go around the room and I'm 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.800 going to tell each of you what I would like 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:04.800 to talk to you about, and then we're going to 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.800 come back to you. Brent. I want to talk to 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.799 you about Kin's Reward Brent's podcast. This week, we talked 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.359 about a horse named Ken's Reward. We got to come 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.440 back to that. To Brent's left, Isaac Neil Grease, assistant 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.799 to the assistant producer of Bear Grease from Missouri, from 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.640 the Queen, the Queen City of the Ozarks. Did you 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.600 know that Springfield, Missouri calls themselves the Queen City of 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:30.240 the Ozarks. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.440 As far as as far as I know, King King 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.320 City of the Ozarks is up for grabs. So I 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.679 don't know what you're grasping about. We're just saying we're 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:39.760 the second best. 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.280 Yeah, yeah, you can. You should call yourself the runner 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.160 up city of It's pretty good. 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.679 There's a lot of cities in the Ozarks. 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.440 From the runner up city in the Ozarks, Isaac Neil 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:57.320 to Isaac's left, Michael Roseman, Hello, Man, Michael. So, Michael Dad, 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:04.000 he owns Operates, He's the engineer, he's the lead man, dishwasher, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.520 dishwasher at sun Spot Coonlights. So the coon lights that 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.480 we sell on mediator dot com that me and Brent use, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.840 the big high powered coon lights. This is the this 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:19.480 is a man behind it. So yes, yeah, and so 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.720 what I want to talk to Michael about later is 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.480 his new light. And I am going to tell everyone 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.200 in the United States that if you don't own one 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.440 of these, you should. I use my I use my 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.120 light all the time. And I don't even have a 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.360 coon dog right now. I have one retired dog that 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:43.560 backtracks a lot, so it's pretty straight. It just, uh, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.560 we just hit a lot of dentrees after I lost 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.640 my good female. So I use my coon light almost 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.440 every day. Incredible light I use in the back country. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.040 We'll get back to that. The guest of honor today 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.000 because he's come so far, is my buddy Chris Pale 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.320 of the Houndsman XP podcast How Far Do You Come Today? 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.240 I was like, I traveled for three weary days by 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.080 Mule and Donkey. We're talking. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.280 We're talking physical distance because I thought there was personal 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.360 growth or something. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:21.760 Like Yeah, there's always personal growth when you're traveling with 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.400 the terrier patients. 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:25.640 Oh you got your dog with you? 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:26.040 Yeah? 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:27.200 Yeah, I got tough with me. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.159 Okay. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:28.440 Cool. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:33.960 You came from Indiana, yes, the northwest Arkansas yep. Great. Well, okay, boys, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.360 we're going to talk to Chris about this newly proposed 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.119 it's gonna get serious Colorado legislation that's designed to shut 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.320 down mountain lion hunting with hounds in the state of Colorado. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.280 So Chris is kind of he's he's stayed up to 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.680 date on that, and we're going to introduce that and 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.159 talk about it the world. We're going to come back 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.320 to that. So thank you so much for coming. 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:57.360 That was my pleasure. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.920 Yeah, man. And then to your left believe or Nukem. 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:02.720 Did you hear your name come up on the podcast? 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:04.760 Nailed it? 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:05.120 Brother? 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.960 I'm I'm I'm excited about this episode. It's been a 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.760 while since we've done a documentary style podcast. We've been 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.320 doing stories for ten weeks. So you know, if you're 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.440 new to this, if this is your first every time 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.839 to tune into the Bear Grease podcast. Our render is 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:30.920 when we talk about the documentary style podcast that we do, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.880 and the last five episodes. We did two episodes Chris 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.360 in September on Alaska Stories, which just was a compilation 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:44.880 of wild, harrowing Alaskan stories, which I really enjoyed, and 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.280 then we did three full deer hunting episodes, which to 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.040 me are some of my favorite things that we do. I' 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.960 just like hearing the way people think about a moment 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.839 inside of their hunting career. Really, it's just like a 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.640 to these guys that I know about him, I have 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.160 respect for, and I'm like, tell me your best, dear story. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:11.320 I really enjoyed that. So, all right, going back the 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.720 other direction, Brent yep Ken's Reward. So, Brent on this 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.440 Country Life podcast, I'm going to take a little bit 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.560 of credit for a lot of the success of This 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:25.240 Country Life. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.960 I wish Mystery was here because the. 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.719 Way this works, Dad is Brent, we'll be driving somewhere. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.040 He told me the story of Ken's. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.280 Reward years ago, Yeah, a long time ago. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:41.080 And I was like, dude, you need to figure out 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.159 a way to tell that story on This Country Life. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.479 So if you haven't heard it, which, go back and 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.640 listen to it. Brent had Brent's dad bought him a horse, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.240 yea from a sale in Ada, Oklahoma. 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:54.600 Yep. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:55.760 How old were you, Brent? 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.720 Oh, let's see, I would have probably in nineteen eighty eight. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:06:59.760 I'd have been twenty two. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.359 Where it's twenty two years old. His dad and his 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.840 best friend go to horse sale in Ate, Oklahoma and 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.080 get a great deal on a pure bred American quarter 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.800 horse that was supposedly a horse. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:18.120 Yeah, and then he couldn't buck. They said he wouldn't 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.080 buck good enough, so they made a cow horse up. 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:21.760 They wanted him for a bucking horse. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:22.240 Yep, that's what. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:23.720 They made him into. A roping horse. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.920 Yep, they made him into a You got to hear. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:26.920 Him tell the story. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:27.400 You did. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.880 You did a good job of telling the story. And 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.559 but the but the but the whole podcast was about 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.680 animal names, like why do we name animals the way 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:42.480 we do? And he it's a mystery why this horse 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.520 was named Ken's Reward because you know, he ends up 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.440 doing a lot of trouble with the horse. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.040 Yeah, it was not he was not conducive to what 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:53.840 what I wanted him to do. And what I wanted 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.520 him to do was be able to get on him 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.840 and ride him and get off of him without having 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.960 to are Yeah, without any type of medical personnel involved 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.280 in it. I just wanted to get on a horse 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.920 and go from point A to point B. It sounds simple, 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.120 and then come back and both of us be happy. 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:13.320 And that just it didn't work out. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.280 That was it didn't work out with Ken's Reward. No, 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.640 here's what we're gonna do. Here's what we're gonna do. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.640 If you are in agreement with it, We're putting out 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:26.600 an APB across the bear grease world if somebody can 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:34.920 legitimately tell us and verify where, like who owned Ken's 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.679 Reward and what the story was. All we know was 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.720 that in nineteen eighty eight it was bought at a 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:44.160 horse selle in eight, Oklahoma, and it supposedly came from Texas. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.240 And I saw the papers. It is an absolute one 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.160 registered American quarter horse. I saw the papers and his 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:57.880 name was Ken's Reward, ky E n apostrophe s Reward. Okay, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:58.520 that was it. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.800 Whoever can get us in touch with Ken, yeah, or 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:10.760 should should Ken no longer be with us? Ken's Ken? 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:17.880 I will give you one of these, a genuine Arkansas 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:25.160 plot treed coonskin hat, land Bridge spillmaker. Yeah, for a 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.080 plot to tree a coon. Yeah, that's rare. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.680 I tell you what I'll do. I'll sweeten the pot. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.880 I'll throw in a case mini trapper pocket knife. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.040 Okay, it's the deal. Now. It's hard to ride out Like, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.079 we're not lawyers here, but it's really got to be 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.360 a genuine, like verifiable lead where we could talk to 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.640 someone and get some sense of why this horse was 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.079 named Ken's Reward? Any holes in this planned, Chris. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.200 I don't see any. I'm looking at the hat. I 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.640 mean it's that coonskin cap, right, there's legit. We know 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.439 what a mini trapper is. I mean, somebody's just got 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:00.720 to come up with the right info. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.520 Are there any loopholes though, Dad? Like, could someone like liars? 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:06.319 Yeah? 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.800 I mean, but it's gonna We're gonna have to talk 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.839 to Ken. Now. Somebody had to be pretty good to 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.160 pull the wool over our eyes. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.920 Yeah, okay, is this is this Ken's Rewards Reward? 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.800 That's it, right, I have seen the papers and you 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:23.480 don't need to disclose it here. But do you know 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.200 how that horse was bred? No, okay, I don't. I 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.319 don't remember. It's one of the verification things out the 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:30.040 window right there. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.280 I don't. I don't remember, but I'll tell you what 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.960 I have. I've thought about a million times, and I 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.520 didn't have a young and in the world when I 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.240 had that horse. Since then, I've had three. And every 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:43.280 time I helped them with a school project that involved glue, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.640 I fantasized about me squeezing ken out on a piece 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.280 of paper. Oh yeah, that's where he wound up. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:49.680 Wow. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.199 But that's dark. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:52.480 That's really saying something. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.000 I'm just telling you. You tried to kill me. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:56.720 That is pretty dark. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.960 I feel like I be remiss to not point out 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.280 that you're halfway to be in a long hunter. By 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.680 the time you get that hat and that knife, you're 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:06.240 just missing a set of buckskins. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.440 And that is a great I'm glad you're reminded me. 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:09.800 That was. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.720 What we're going to talk to Clay about today is 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.760 me and Steve Vanella and a team at Meat Eater. 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.000 One of those team members was Randall Williams, doctor Randall, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.480 Doctor Randall. We talked about it this week, but we've 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.880 come out with an audio original. It's essentially an audio 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:33.160 book about the Long Hunters and it's it's available for 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.360 pre sale. Did you see that dad on the internet? 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.000 Do you get on the internet much? Yeah? 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.640 Internet, We've we've done a terrible job of marketing. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:44.320 Is on the internet right now. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.080 This week meat Eater announced our audio book called The 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.440 Long Hunters seventeen sixty one to seventeen seventy five by 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.960 Steve Vanella Clay Nukeomb narrated by Steve Vnellen Clay Nukemb. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:12:02.520 And it is never before compile data on the Long Hunters. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.040 I mean, I'm serious, there has never before been this 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:11.240 data crunched together in such a compact way. I mean, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.360 it's incredible and it's really cool. And so you can 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.400 pre order that now through Penguin Random House, through the 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.840 links that are you know, on media and stuff. But 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.320 it'll come out on January ninth. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.040 Put a link in the description. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.320 Yeah, So I'm very excited about that. It was a 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.880 ton of fun. So basically it's it's me and Steve 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.400 Vanella kind of going back and forth in this audio 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.680 book and h really cool. 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.760 So I can tell you one thing about the Internet 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:43.400 is every time I even turn around, Brent Reeves comes 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.600 up going this country life and I'm going to back off, man. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.640 I mean, I got I gotta look for yours. I mean, 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.679 I gotta go. Come on, Clay, I need, I need 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.440 to watch this. And all of a sudden, on the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.000 bear Grease feed. Yeah yeah, I just you know when 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.720 I go to when I go after it, this guy's 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.120 got the product. 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:09.240 He's playing it. Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're feeding you. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:14.920 Brent Reeves. Come on, yeah, Michael, you're tell us about 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.880 your new light. So let me let me go back. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.920 Already said it before, but I have been in multiple 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.360 showdowns with big game hunters that thought they had a 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:27.840 good light. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:29.200 Never lost, did you? 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:29.480 Never? 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:31.640 You won't coon. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.840 Hunters win the light game every time? Am I right? 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:34.200 Chris? 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:36.880 I mean for real, I've been in hunting camps and 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.440 been like, somebody shine their light and I'd be like, 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.720 that's a cute light, and and they're like, oh this 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.080 is this is the best light ever, and and I'll 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.360 step outside and shine them. And the thing coon hunters 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.200 don't have the market on much. Let me put it 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.880 that way. The one thing coon hunters have the market 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.360 on is bright lights that last a long time. And 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:00.840 I use my son's spot light all the time. I 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.800 take it on back country hunts, I take it off 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.240 my hard hat. So I have a hard hat. Have 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.520 had some people ask me about why the hard hat. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:09.880 You don't have to use a hard hat. The idea 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.880 of a hard hat is that it holds a heavier light, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.200 which the bigger coon lights. I mean they're heavier than 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.600 like a little little, you know, energizer bunny little bitty 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.360 pocket light you put in your piace. It's a little 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.520 bigger than that, but they last forever and incredibly bright. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.920 How let me ask you this, on the lowest power 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.480 of a sun spot, like the lowest walking light power, 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.440 so this light would have multiple stages of brightness and 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.880 even dishes the light out different like it has a spotlight, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.440 but it also has a walking light. If you turn 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.720 it on just the walk lowest walking light, how long 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.920 would that light burn on a big charge? 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.040 Over one hundred hours so you could. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.240 Literally leave it on in your bag for a week. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.280 Yeah, yeah, four days, four or five days. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.560 Yeah, I mean that's pretty incredible. What about candle power? 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.160 Do you still use candle power? 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.320 Is there some other so? Yeah, they do, But it's 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.600 the metric it's lux is what we go by. Yeah, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.480 so a lot of people that look at lights, they 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.080 want the first question they ask you is how many 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.120 lumens does it have? And that's not really a measurement 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.960 that's useful for us. Lumens is a measurement that comes 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:26.040 from the factory. So it's how much that LED can 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:31.640 output with this much current put on it, and it's 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.400 that's total light. That's light that's lost in the reflector, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.720 light that you're never going to see. It's not something 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.200 that's useful. But that's what the state. 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.560 Is, not reality limit it is. 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.200 It is, but not in not in the way that 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.760 we use it. So but that's the way that the 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.080 industry in like Walmart and the smaller little stuff that's 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.720 they advertise lumens because that can be verified. So I 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.880 have a cre led, it has this much current put 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.280 to it. To Cree says, you have this many looms. Lux, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.440 like you're talking about a Candlepower is how much throw 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.920 that light has so how far it's gonna shine, And 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.600 that's what we call brightness. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.760 So you can have to LEDs with the same lumins, 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.600 but if you put a different reflector on there. 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.000 Yes, that you use, so the lux is more of 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.760 a real world lux. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.000 How much light you have throw of the light lumins 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.600 is actually how much light you have coming out of it. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.320 But there's no way to measure that. This is what 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.400 he's saying is depending on the optics that you use 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.680 for it, you can have a thousand lucks. These light 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.480 bulbs are lumins. I'm sorry. These light bulbs have a 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.360 high lumin value to them, and they just softly light 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.280 up your light your room, so it doesn't do you 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.960 any good coon hunt. But you put an optic behind 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.440 it that can gather all that light and put it 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.040 in one place for you, and that's what we're calling lux. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.280 Okay, Finally, I've been using these lights forever and I 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.560 have heard him talk about this a thousand times. Finally 0:16:58.720 --> 0:16:59.400 understand it. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.560 It's low throwback on that is I was headed across 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.240 forty and boom, there's a night like score off the 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.560 I like squealed tires getting off the road because when 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.160 I started hunting, night like light was it. They came 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.720 out with a six volt gel cell and then they 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.480 I had one of those for a while, and then 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.199 they put the strobe on it and I don't know 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.480 that it did anything. It doesn't do any It doesn't 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.359 do anything, but it was cool. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.000 That was designed to make a coon look at your 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.760 eyes and you clicked it it. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.200 Yeah, so you push the button on top of the 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.960 wrist at and boom, had start flashing and you think 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.200 that he's gonna look now. The only thing it did 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.560 was melcher meltry wrist at down starts smoking on your side. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.159 The night light was the first real coon hunting light 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.240 I ever had. The only thing I had before that. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.280 We carried a truck battery in a backpack with this 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.840 giant spotlight that they used to make it was called 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.199 a sunspot. Really, that's where the name of that. You 0:17:58.240 --> 0:17:59.680 have the game ward and took it from me. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.080 But that's another star. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:04.200 Store. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.959 You bought me a night light. When I was in 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.240 the ninth grade, we used to have those big belt 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.160 used to have to carry battery packs to have those 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.960 big thick belts. I still got it. It was the 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.960 It was the industry standard back in the day. Now 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.560 the lights are way better, way brighter, way smaller, way lighter. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.439 The only thing in this world that is increased in 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.399 functionality and quality and decreased in price. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.480 Wow, Now there's a cell. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.200 Yeah, that's it. I mean I used to pay four 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.280 or five six hundred dollars for some of these belt 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:45.600 lights and they were literally maybe a fifth is bright 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.560 is what we do now, and you're paying three hundred 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.000 dollars for a light now that lasts longer, is brighter. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.880 So your light now, this is not like a sales pitch. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.480 I you know, there's people and I'm one of those 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.680 people that if I like something, I'll talk to people 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.520 on the street about it. I'll be like, you know, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.959 I mean like I want you to like and if 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.000 you don't, if you don't like it, I'm offended. Like 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.240 I'm like, well, god the man. No, coonlights is one 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.560 of them. And there's a lot of good coonlights, don't 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.000 get me wrong. I mean there's there's there's plenty of them. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.080 I'm just talking about coonlights. But Michael's got his. Your 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.560 light has a lifetime warranty. Yeah, send it to you. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.480 Ten dollars for return shipping and that's it. It's the 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.800 only thing. We don't covers damage, and we cover that 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.960 most of the time. Yeah, depends on how bad. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.840 I mean, this is not a throwaway. 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.240 No you ever find yourself sunspots consider one of the 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.120 top lights in the Yeah, in the country and in 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:43.399 my community for sure. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.119 Yeah, you ever find yourself just putting on the helmet 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.680 to go out to grocery shop or something, just so you. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:55.200 Have a okay you're on. When you're on a competition 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:56.880 coon hunt, tell me if this is right or wrong. 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:57.800 I know where you're headed. 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.560 When you're on a competition coon hunt and you stop 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.159 at a gas station and you got four guys in 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.199 a cast in a cab of a truck, maybe you 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.040 know them, maybe you don't. And you go to a 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.800 gas station, everybody wears their coon light into the gas station. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.919 Where you thought I was gonna go, well kind of ok. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.800 I've done that multiple times. You leave the house hunting 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.240 or whatever, and you got to stop the gas station, 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.199 get a pop, get a can, at you whatever, and 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.320 you got your hip boots on and your coon light 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.320 on your vest on and people are looking at you 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.439 like what is he doing? I didn't know. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.120 Somehow when you're in a competition hunt, like it's okay. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.240 Like if I went to Walmart, I just walk in 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.600 there with my and my big light on. But what 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.000 were you where do you think I was going on that? 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:47.680 Was it the other gas station store? 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:48.240 For sure? 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:49.680 Yeah? For sure? 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.080 Coon Lights. So y'all come out with a new Copperhead. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.879 Yeah, we come out with a new light. We dropped 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.400 two nights Adults called the Copperhead comparatible to our other lights. 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:04.000 It's brighter, smaller, lighter weight than our Viper, which was 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.879 our topy en light, Smaller than the Viper, lighter weight, wrider, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.080 all the same functions, and it's a slick looking light. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.440 I like it. I like it. Okay, we're just marching 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:21.000 around here. Uh, Chris, Yeah, we're I'm on a mission, man. 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.320 I want to talk about I want to talk about this, 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.240 the story of the plots. 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:27.840 War my shirt for you. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.159 Yeah, he's got the American Plot Association shirt on. 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.280 It was either this one or not a game Warden 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:33.760 T shirt. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.160 Yeah, dad, Chris is a retired game warden. 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:38.480 Yeah. 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:45.760 I talked to one of our friends. They got there. 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.120 I talked to one of our mutual friends just yesterday, Chris, 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.400 and uh, well, no, no, no, no, no, no, you told 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.760 me this story. One of our mutual friends introduced you 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.919 when you went bear hunting with them in East Tennessee. 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.240 He would introduce you as this is Chris pal he's 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:05.960 a former game warden from Indiana. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:06.720 Oh yeah. 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.240 And Chris kind of got embarrassed about it, like saying, hey, 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.959 you don't have to say that, And the guy was like, 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.480 trust me, I don't want these guys to find out 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.280 later that you are a former game warden. He said, 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.920 they'll they'll they won't trust you. Is that about the 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:22.480 way it happened. 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:23.919 That's exactly the way it happened. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.520 You know. It's like, since when do we have to 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.000 walk around and this is this is Clay nukemb he 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.199 works at meat Eater, This is Gary Nukeum. He was 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.159 a retired banker. You know, it's like, oh, this is 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.160 a game warden and that, and we're going to introduce 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.360 him like that. It's like being a preacher. 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:38.760 You know. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.000 I never introduced my preacher. It's like, hey, this is 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:43.840 so and so he's my preacher. I mean, it's like 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:45.880 sending out the warning don't don't. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.720 Come, don't come, don't color show. 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.000 So yeah, I used to get introduced like that. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.200 Yeah, he was doing it for your as a favorite 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:55.960 to you though. 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.000 I think, uh, I think he was really good at 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.600 pivoting on the moment and and coming up with that. 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.840 But I do think that I do think it was 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:07.320 for his benefit. Yeah, he wasn't bringing a game warden 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:07.919 to the mountain. 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:11.240 He's like just full disclosure here, yeah, full disclosure, Yeah, 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:12.119 full disclosure. 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:12.720 Yeah. 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.560 You know some of my favorite Bear Grease stories were 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:16.720 about game wardens. 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:17.440 Yeah. 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.960 I mean they just go down as the top notch stories. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:21.120 Man. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:21.920 I loved it. Yeah. 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.280 Yeah, that seems to be the consensus of the world. Yeah, 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.560 because some of our best episodes were low Dell and 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:29.400 Charlie and then The Secret Agent man. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:30.919 Yeah, yeah, I love that. 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:42.720 Yeah. Yeah, Chris tell it. Give us like a high 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:44.359 level view what's going on in Colorado? 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:47.919 Yeah, so we're gonna get serious. 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.200 Huh yeah, all right, Well, I'll. 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:50.800 Tell you what's happening. 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:56.120 And we're seeing science based responsible wildlife management being hijacked 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.520 in the state of Colorado through it's called Initiative ninety one, 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.720 and it's been introduced. It went through the what's called 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.960 the title board hearing, where they've got to make sure 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.119 that the labeling is right. An Initiative ninety one is 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:15.879 going to be a ballot initiative where the public gets 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:19.840 to vote on this issue of wildlife management and it 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:24.880 pertains directly to mountain lions and bobcats, and they threw 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.080 in links for sensational value. You can't hunt links in 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:31.840 the lower forty eight anyway because they're on the endangered 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:32.480 species list. 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:33.720 There're links in Colorado. 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.560 There are links in Colorado, really, so they just threw 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:39.800 that one on the pile just to just to add 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.520 to the sensationalism, even though you still can't hunt them. 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:44.239 So, yeah, you can't hunt them now. 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.280 No, no, you can't hunt them now. So what does 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:47.040 that need to be there? 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:49.880 You know, because it's an animal on the endangered species 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:51.840 list that when the people are voting, oh you look 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:54.320 it up, they say, oh yeah, we definitely won't let it. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:25:00.840 It's totally totally sensationalized. But what's happened is some groups 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:04.119 have gotten together in Colorado and put this on the 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:07.879 back or put this forward, have got approval for it 0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:13.919 to be moving forward and be introduced to the ballot 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:16.919 next year. So they've still got to go through signature 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:21.320 acquisition and things like that. Right now it's in the 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:25.040 Supreme Court, and basically that's just making sure that all 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.600 the eyes are dotted and all the teaser crossed and 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.560 things like that. But the most alarming thing about it 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:35.680 is not because of the lions and the Bobcat issue. 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:38.600 I mean, take those two animals out and put elk 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:40.720 in there, put sheep in there, or put you know, 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.439 whatever animal you want, white tailed deer in there. This 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:51.560 is just a typical tactic where people with influence are 0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:57.000 trying to hijack the traditional North American model for wildlife 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:03.720 conservation and make it a political issue. So when you 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:06.280 when you start doing that, there's a lot of dangers 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:08.320 and a lot of trip trip ups for that. You know, 0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:13.320 we don't we don't necessarily need somebody who's uninformed, who's 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:17.840 been been sensationalized to and and had this narrative soul 0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:21.560 to them based on emotion, to vote on this, you know, 0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:25.840 because it's it's it's just alarming. It's an alarming thing. 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:29.239 I mean, our wildlife is and our story of our 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:33.199 our conservation story is amazing, you know, going back to 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.159 the eighteen eighties and the recovery and and the money 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.359 that was spent to and it's all because hunters stepped 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:41.639 up and said we'll do this right. And then the 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:45.320 first ten of the conservation. North American model is wildlife 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.440 is a public trust. So we did that and we said, yeah, 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:50.280 go to the park and look at elk, go to 0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:53.080 the go to the National Forest and and look at bars, 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.040 do all this other stuff. So we willingly did that. 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:58.280 It's the only it's the only bill that I'm aware 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:02.639 of that was ever passed, the Pittman Robertson bill who's 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:04.560 ever passed where people said. 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.760 Tax us, Yeah, please tax us. 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.960 So we've got a big investment in this thing, and 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:14.560 the anti hunting crowd is trying to flip the narrative 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:18.600 and divert us away from science based and responsible wildlife management, 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.760 make it a political weapon and based it. 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:24.800 On almost who is doing this. 0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:31.199 There are a couple of local groups in Colorado that 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:36.200 are that are leading the charge on this. Yeah, that 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:41.760 it hasn't been revealed yet, but we're pretty confident that 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:46.680 that there are some larger, more well funded groups. 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.640 That they've got a lot of money and are waiting. 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:54.600 I mean, this is a very well funded thing for 0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:58.120 for Initiative ninety one. Is that correct that you have to. 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:00.200 Be seen you're talking which side. 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:01.800 Well not our side? 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:02.280 Yeah? 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.880 Yeah, I mean they're gonna what was the time? Tell 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:09.399 me the timeline. So when give me a timeline of 0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:15.360 like when are the when are they signing the Well. 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:21.760 Right now, it's it's been introduced to go to the 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:26.440 Colorado Supreme Court and that's expected to be heard sometime 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.680 in January to make sure all the legalities and you know. 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:33.240 Make sure the law is it works, and. 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:37.280 Then the cons the people to vote on Yeah, when 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:38.120 does it go win? 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:38.960 Does it? Yeah? 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:42.480 Next November in the twenty twenty four election. So between 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:44.560 that time, you're going to have a period of time 0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:48.240 where you're gonna have to have signatures to make sure 0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:52.560 they meet the ballot requirements for the required number of 0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:56.360 signatures for it to appearental ballot. There are gonna be lawsuits. 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:58.760 There are gonna be Then there's gonna be a campaign 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:03.000 time when when both sides of we as hunters are 0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:04.959 going to launch a campaign, the anti hunters are going 0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:07.960 to launch a campaign. We're gonna have this Classies Titans 0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:13.000 in the state of Colorado all through next summer and 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.600 then leading up to the election. We need to have 0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:17.920 our ducks in a row by July, I would say, 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:20.400 to be able to start who. 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:23.680 Is the main guy what's the guy's name that we 0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:24.479 were talking about. 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.320 Yeah, the guy the spearhead and the whole efforts out 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:31.800 there is Dan Gates. And he is the head of 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:37.640 an organization called Colorado Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management, and 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:43.240 a lot of different entities are coming together to back 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:47.800 him and and he's been working this state. 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:50.720 For this was coming. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.800 Yeah, I mean Colorado is right for it. It's the demographics. 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:56.200 There are right big. 0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.280 Urban cities with most of the population. 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:01.680 And then the to give you an idea, I saw 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:04.840 a slide on that that was put together in a 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:07.840 presentation while I was out in Colorado a month or 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:11.000 so ago. There are five point eight million people in 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:14.640 the state of Colorado. Five point two million of those 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:19.400 live on the Front Range and the Denver Boulder, that metroplex. Yeah, 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:23.640 five point two million. That leaves six hundred thousand people 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:29.000 living out in the sticks that understand ranching, wildlife management 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:29.800 and things like that. 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:32.280 Yeah, so it's gonna. 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.680 Be it's it's it is the Battleground State for Wildlife 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.760 Management twenty twenty four. 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:42.880 Yeah, you'll be hearing more stuff from us and some 0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:47.160 specific calls to action at different times, but Yeah, we're 0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:52.240 we're gonna do our best at bear Grease and meat 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:56.760 Eater to get the word out and because I mean, 0:30:57.360 --> 0:30:59.600 people that are listening to this podcast are gonna know 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:05.479 why we're against and you know, closing down the season, 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:07.840 why we're for predator management. 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.800 I mean it, I wouldn't even have to go, I 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:15.400 wouldn't even try to try to pigeonhole. It is a 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:19.400 predator management. This is an outright attack on science based 0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:20.360 wildlife management. 0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:25.360 Yeah, and not just the predator control. So from what 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:28.160 I understand, and I don't big game hunt with hounds, 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:32.240 but from what I understand that the cat hunters are 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:37.000 basically responsible for saving mountain lions. 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:40.160 That's a great point because if you were not for 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:45.280 the houndsmen that were out there catching mountain lions, organizations 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.000 like Colorado's Parks and Wildlife would not be able to 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.680 collect the data. There's so much that goes into a 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:54.320 mountain lion study. You know, you catch it, you dart it, 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:56.560 you collar it. You can collect all that data. You 0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:58.800 can find out their home ranges, you can find their 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:02.520 kills on ungulant species. You take the bones from those 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:05.880 ungulant species back into the lab. You can measure the fat, 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:09.840 you can test your DNA, you can The predator management 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:14.440 studies are an integral part and valuable to the management 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:16.000 of all wildlife species. 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:19.880 Yeah, and just the general idea too, that a hunted 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:23.240 animal has cultural value, and where an animal has cultural value, 0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:25.600 it will ultimately be protected by the people that want 0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:30.479 to hunt always. And so you know, there's nobody in 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:34.479 Colorado that wants more mountain lions than mountain lion hunters. 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:36.680 You got that right, I mean, but we also know 0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:41.320 that predator numbers. What's happening continental wide is that predator 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:47.640 numbers are on the rise. I mean wolves, mountain lions, coyotes, coons, possums, 0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:53.120 the meso, predators, black bears, like everything is is those 0:32:53.120 --> 0:32:55.840 are the things that seem to be doing really well 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:59.600 right now. And so hunting with hounds is a management tool, 0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:03.360 high regulated, It is not out of control. Mountain lions 0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:07.600 are doing incredibly well in Colorado. So this is a 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:12.200 political thing of someone that doesn't like the idea of 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:14.640 people going out and hunting mountain lions. This is something 0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:19.160 that's been going on since for hundreds of years. I mean, 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.480 people hunting with dogs been going on for thousands and 0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:25.280 thousands and thousands of years, but you know, you get 0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:29.600 the point. So, man, everybody's always heard me talk about 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:31.880 garding the gate, it's been a while since I've actually 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:35.400 talked about it. So I'll quickly review the doctrine. I believe, 0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:39.040 and a lot of people believe, that the whole model 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:45.320 of North American wildlife are our management system. The weak link, 0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:48.120 the place where the anti hunting community really has a 0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:53.600 strong foothold, is inside of the predator arena, specifically bears 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:56.800 and mountain lions. It's harder for them to sell to 0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.400 the general public that hunting a deer, or hunting a world, 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.840 or hunting that whatever is bad. It's pretty It's a 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:06.160 pretty easy sell for them to say, Hey, these guys 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.080 are out there killing bears and mountain lions. What are 0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:09.839 they even doing with them? It's a trophy hunt. They 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.720 don't eat them. All this stuff that's not true, correct, 0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:17.759 And I believe that that that weakest link in this 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.200 whole system is the place that we need to guard 0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.879 the most. They're kind of was, like I would say, 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:28.960 ten years ago, by my interpretation of the hunting community, 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:33.399 there was kind of this idea that those guys are 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:35.480 kind of on the fringe, and those guys being the 0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:38.359 predator hunters and specifically the hound hunters that are bear 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.200 hunting with hounds, and those guys are kind of on 0:34:41.239 --> 0:34:46.280 the fringe. That's kind of going away. We're not gonna 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.279 associate with that. Like people weren't wanting to step up 0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:56.719 and talk. And that's not entirely true. That's a generalization, hyperbolic, 0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:59.160 as they say, exaggeration to make a point, But that 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:02.959 was I felt like that happening. And then we were like, hey, 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:07.560 the weakest link is the most important thing, because once 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.440 they get that, we know this is not this is 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:17.400 not exaggerated hype political talk like incremental incrementalization like the 0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:22.720 anti hunting community and whether it's this big, really designed thing. 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:26.920 I mean, they're kind of like, you know, the it's 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.640 like they got a one hundred year plan to stamp 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.399 this thing out. Yeah, they even said it. 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.920 You can't compromise, it can't be you can't give up, 0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:38.239 and you can't give up one inch. Yeah, because they 0:35:38.360 --> 0:35:42.200 will not satisfy them. Yeah, you can't say okay, okay, okay, yeah, 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:45.520 I'll just we'll just do this and that'll be the end. 0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:47.399 Of it. It won't be the end of it. 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.800 There is nothing that they do that is not with intent. 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:56.440 Everything they do is purpose driven. It's the reason they 0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:00.560 came to Colorado is because of the population dynamic there 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:02.839 and Andy. 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:03.920 The reason they could win. 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:07.359 The reason they come after Mountain Lions is because it 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:15.520 mainly affects houndsmen, and so houndsmen historically have been very 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:22.160 loosely organized, very even like you alluded to, being looked 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:23.959 at on the fringe. I mean, you can't even get 0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:27.239 you can't even get bear hunters or anybody to come 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:29.600 together to say that, all of them to say that, 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:31.839 hey man, you guys are hunting with hounds, go for it. 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:36.200 You know, we even get snipe from inside the hunting community. 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:38.920 So so, but I think that's changing. 0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:42.160 Yes, I do too believe that. 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.520 I think we're gaining a lot of ground there. So 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:47.239 it was just go back to the art of you know, 0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:49.440 the art of war with sun sou. These people know 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:53.160 what they're doing and they're coming after the weakest link. 0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:56.800 And what we need from the hunting community as a 0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:00.200 whole is like Brent said that we stand together other 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.239 and we say no. It's like, you know, it's like 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:07.080 a family. It's like a family reunion. You don't get 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.480 along with everybody there. Yeah, but if somebody comes up 0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:12.880 and punches your cousin in the face that you don't like, 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:15.759 you're gonna you're you're throwing in you know. Yeah, and 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:17.080 that's what we need well. 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:19.680 And that's that's what I think we've seen in the 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.200 last seven eight years is more of the general hunting 0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:28.040 community coming around the hound and predator community and saying, hey, 0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:30.000 this is a big part. This is a part of 0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:34.520 the family, and we're concerned because what we've always said 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:36.879 is that if you're a deer hunter in Missouri, if 0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:40.440 you're a turkey hunter, if you're you know, this matters 0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:43.400 to you. Like if if the whole of North American hunting, 0:37:43.400 --> 0:37:46.960 and we don't realize that we're in the heyday of 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:50.440 so many parts of North American hunting. I mean, we 0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:54.560 we we have this incredible thing and the trend and 0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:56.279 you see it in other places in the world, is 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.280 that that thing that freedom slips away and goes away. 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:02.719 And so you know, we're saying, hey, we're a generation 0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:04.800 that's that is not going to give anything. 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:04.960 Now. 0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:08.120 We're not trying to be hard nos or jerks about it. 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:11.560 I mean, we're we're just saying, hey, this is just 0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:15.040 this is just who we are as Americans. There is 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:19.160 a place inside of our society where the hunters reside. 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:21.600 You don't have to be a hunter. We love wildlife. 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:25.719 If you you in general people in America love wildlife 0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:28.960 and wild places. Well, guess who does too, the hunters. 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:34.320 We're the ones who are funding wildlife habitat conservation across 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:36.680 the country. We're all on the same team. You want hunters. 0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:42.640 Hunters provide an incredible, incredible service to society. We need 0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:47.399 mountain lion hunters, we need bear hunters. And so that's 0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:50.319 why this is important, because the idea would be like, well, 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:53.000 I don't hunt mountain lions in Colorado. I probably never will. 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:56.279 I don't care. That's that's a short, short sighted thing, 0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.200 you know. So it's longer term, and I mean that's 0:38:59.239 --> 0:39:01.120 really that's really all there is to say about it. 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:04.000 We have, we have hunted, we have we have This 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:08.400 generation of hunters has inherited one hundred and fifty years 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:13.160 of conservation work, right, I mean you think about that. 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:19.240 We are the benefactors of Teddy Roosevelt, and yeah, uh 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:24.719 you know, you know, all these guys that built this 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.600 and now we're enjoying it all. And it's like, I'm 0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:30.200 a deer hunter and I got my pile. I'm an 0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:31.960 elk hunter and I got my pile. I'm a houndsman 0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:34.200 and I got my pile. Man, We're not going to 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:36.400 survive like that. We gotta we gotta find ways to 0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:39.160 bridge those gaps. None of us can stand alone. 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:43.720 Yeah. So, yeah, that this is all really great and 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:47.000 and uh it's just an invitation to for the whole 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:49.480 hunting community to rally around this thing. 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:51.879 I so, can I tell people where to find more 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:54.880 informational updates? Ye, so if you go to Save the 0:39:54.960 --> 0:40:00.120 Hunt Colorado dot org. Okay, then you can get updates 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.359 on what's going on with the initiative ninety one. 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:03.400 Uh. 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:07.200 You can also go to our website at hounsmanexp dot com. 0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:10.279 You know, scroll we're dropping a lot of content on 0:40:10.360 --> 0:40:14.040 this sort of stuff, and you know, just reach out 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:16.400 to me if you if you're concerned about it and 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:18.879 you're looking, say, man, this is this is a good fight. 0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.000 I want to get in it. Just contact me through 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:23.160 a website at Hounsman XP dot com. 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:24.840 And there's a bunch of groups that are going to 0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:27.479 be doing a lot. Absolutely, I'm a big fan of 0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:31.520 howl dot org. The guys at how they're working, I 0:40:31.520 --> 0:40:33.960 think they're doing doing a good job of getting stuff out. 0:40:34.080 --> 0:40:36.440 Origin Blood is another. 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:40.799 One all these groups. I mean, uh, Sportsman's Alliance big time. 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:44.520 Yes, I'm glad you brought them up. Yeah, of course. 0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:46.719 But c r w M is going to be the 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:50.600 place that we need to get this money too. So 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:51.560 that's where I would tell you. 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:53.720 To go first, go to the bigger army. 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.520 I mean, if you just say this is war, you 0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:58.279 know it'ses versus China. 0:40:58.080 --> 0:41:01.760 Who who's who's the probable win or Well, I think. 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:09.480 If you're talking funding, then I believe that that the 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:13.799 anti hunting crowd is got more dedicated funds to fight 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:14.440 this today. 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:16.279 However, if you. 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:21.040 Look at the amount of money that hunting produces, then 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.160 that's one of the biggest things that that you're your 0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:26.920 person that's a non hunter that's got to make a 0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:31.040 decision in Colorado, who's going to fund this wildlife next year? 0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:32.799 If we outlawed this year, who's going to fund it 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:34.800 next year? It's not gonna be the humane side of 0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:38.240 the United States or Center for Biological Diversity or Friends 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:40.640 of Mounta Lions or whoever is behind this. You know, 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:44.319 you're you're going to strip the funding mechanism to the 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:48.080 tune of about three point five billion dollars a day. 0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:53.080 You know, if you com communicate the way you have communicated, 0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:58.080 I mean, you win. But you've got a gullible populace 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:00.680 out there that could care less about it, and they 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:03.240 just read it and go it sounds like a good idea. 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:04.200 I would be one of them. 0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:06.680 Well I look at that five minutes. I'd go, yeah, man, 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:07.319 get rid of it. 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:10.040 Well that's that's one one of their So you got 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:11.000 to be I mean, they. 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:12.800 There their line. 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:17.080 They tried to push this thing through a sensational narrative, 0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:22.000 like talking about trophy hunting. Well, Clay, you do an 0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:24.799 outstanding job of defending trophy hunting. I mean I've watched 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:28.040 you do it on Joe Rogan. I mean you turned 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:30.440 it around on On Rogan and explain it to me. 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.799 But that's part of it, and and that language has 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.000 been taken off of it. But they were they were 0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.480 trying to redefine what hunting actually is. And that's the 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:43.880 most that's the most important thing that affects all hunters. 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:46.400 Well, there's gonna be a whole lot more coming about it. 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.360 But that's the business. This is the boardroom. That was 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:52.400 the business we need to take care of. And uh, 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:57.799 thanks for thanks for giving us the details crawl. Yeah, 0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:00.040 now that we're gonna have a lot more about that 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:11.520 kind of stuff. The podcasts Pure Americana. Let me start off. 0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:17.880 I said, Chris would understand this. This is a pretty 0:43:17.960 --> 0:43:22.080 risky podcast. Dad kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:27.880 to to to oh yeah, I understand that to not 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:31.759 challenge I didn't challenge anything, but to even put out 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:36.840 there that there was some skepticism around the origin story. 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:40.440 But I did it because I actually felt like it 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:43.960 would be fair to the origin story to do that. 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:47.799 Actually, this is. 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:52.000 So, this is so beneficial to the plot hound Yeah, 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:56.280 origins and everything. I mean, they just took a little 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:59.600 area like this and exploded it all through Bear grease. 0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:02.360 People are going to buy books, people are going to 0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:03.000 talk about this. 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:07.480 You know you Clay's been foreshadowing what a great podcast 0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:09.400 he's got coming up, and I turned it on. 0:44:09.600 --> 0:44:13.399 I thought dead gum plot hems, You thought I. 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:15.360 Don't care about plot app but I mean it was 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:19.359 an awesome deal and and I tell you it, it 0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:22.760 was really good and I think everybody will really enjoy it. 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:25.239 It was a big deal, just like you said. But 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:29.600 at first glance, a plot town man, I don't need 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.920 no thinking plot down. But it's a it's a now 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:36.160 you want one as a It's a human story, it's 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.680 a family story, it's a history story. I don't think 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:42.279 you offended anybody. Well, what I'm saying is in the 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:48.400 plot community, like people are so opinionated and so just 0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:53.400 it's it's it's they get attached to a narrative and 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:57.919 they sometimes wouldn't want to hear anything else. But uh yeah, Brent, 0:44:59.200 --> 0:45:02.640 if should I I die mysterious strange death, will you 0:45:02.800 --> 0:45:04.200 lead an expedition into. 0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:08.479 The team picked out? I can't tell you that. 0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:12.759 What Chris, what did you think? 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:13.239 What? 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:13.479 What? 0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:15.640 What was like the most? This is all stuff you'd 0:45:15.680 --> 0:45:17.360 be very familiar you you hunt plots. 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:24.560 Oh yeah, yeah, plot historian. Though, I thought the your 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:29.279 selection of having Bob Plott, who is a descendant of 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:33.080 the Plot family, who's heard these stories his whole life, 0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:38.160 and he's dove into, you know, finding out the stories. 0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:39.920 His books for his books. 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:44.040 That there's a book I'm holding that striking state. It 0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:45.239 really is a fascinating book. 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:45.480 Bob. 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:49.280 Bob's a real pro when it comes to history. And 0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:51.520 the main the coolest thing about this book is all 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:53.479 the photos. Yeah, look at that, Brent. 0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:58.239 It's uh, it needs to be in every Hounceman, every 0:45:58.320 --> 0:45:59.880 hunter's collection, really, I mean it's just. 0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:01.120 Look at some of those pictures. 0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:05.080 And then John Jackson. John Jackson has been writing plot 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:09.440 history for for decades, you know, and very well spoken. 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:13.320 I really like the way you described me, a true 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:17.160 Southern Mountain gentleman. Yeah, and that's that describes John to 0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:17.400 a t. 0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:20.799 Yeah, he was. Uh, that was the first time I'd 0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:23.880 met John a new John had communicated with him some 0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:26.439 with Bearhunting Magazine, he had written some stuff for us. 0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:32.680 But he is like a yeah, a classic Highland Southern 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.799 gentle way I described him, just very proper, very articulate, 0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:42.000 but deeply passionate. Like h We went down and I 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:44.319 recorded a bunch of this stuff, but I just wasn't 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:46.480 able to really use it in the podcast. But his 0:46:46.760 --> 0:46:50.759 the basement in his house is like a museum with 0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:56.280 plot plot stuff and just Appalachian rural stuff and Civil 0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:01.160 War stuff and guns and famous famous hunters over there, 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:04.600 guys that had plots. He had. He was instrumental and 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:09.440 finding some of some kind of relics of the plot community. Anyway, 0:47:09.719 --> 0:47:12.840 just such a neat guy, but knew so much. But 0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:16.200 he's not a believer. And that's what's kind of right. 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:19.280 Was disappointed. What's that? I was disappointed? 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.319 You were disappointed, like John, like we said, I hate 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:23.040 to disappoint you. 0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:24.359 Oh yeah, I was disappointed. 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:26.920 He was melancholy when he talked about it too. 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:31.640 Okay, here's the deal. I read Bob Plot's book and 0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:36.400 knew Bob Plot I'd heard the story from. Actually, Steve 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:38.640 Hurd is the one who introduced me to the the 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:41.840 original story. Steve heard is a breeder of a strain 0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:44.239 of plots called Bluff Creek Plots. It's the kind of 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:48.800 dogs I've hunted. And Steve was the first one that 0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:51.279 ever introduced me to plots, really, and he told me 0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:53.160 the story just just like on a phone call. 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:56.560 He's like years ago, stepping off the Mayflower. 0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:58.680 About the two brothers. One of them guys that bring 0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:01.000 five dogs. Two of them or or three of them 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:02.759 are brindle. One of them's two of them are yell 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:05.759 or whatever, and I was like, wow, that's incredible. When 0:48:05.760 --> 0:48:08.520 I go to John Jackson, who is a plot historian, 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:11.360 I go to his house and I expect him to 0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:15.239 just tell me that story, and he immediately he did 0:48:15.280 --> 0:48:18.719 such a good job. He was like Johannis plot. He 0:48:18.800 --> 0:48:22.279 just like fed me in. Then he goes, cy, I 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.239 hate to disappoint you, and I don't think that happened that. 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.240 I was like crust. Literally, I was like, oh gosh, 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:30.879 I mean for real, I didn't know what to do 0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.839 with the I was like, well, what am I? What 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.000 am I supposed to do with this interview? Now that 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:41.160 this whole story that I thought was true maybe isn't true. 0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:45.120 Well, I think there's one big point here that I 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:50.439 found fascinating about the whole podcast, and that is I'm 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.480 less interested in what was true in terms of a 0:48:53.600 --> 0:48:57.040 historical sense and more interested in the fact that there 0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:00.120 was one family that cared enough about this thing to 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:02.920 hand down this tradition from one generation to the next. 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:06.880 Like the veracity of the story down to the detail 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:09.759 is less interesting to me than to zoom out and 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.520 go like, here's this family that cared enough about this 0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:15.040 thing that whether or not the origin story of a 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:17.239 guy stepping off a boat with five dogs is true, 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:20.920 they are the genesis of this breed. And it is 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.719 because it's almost more compelling that it's it's not this 0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.759 happenstance thing of a guy or maybe it is, you know, 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:29.520 but it's not this happenstance thing of a guy stepping 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.759 off with five dogs and here we go. It's this 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:37.440 very careful overtime, each father to son, uncle to nephew, whatever, 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:41.360 telling this story, caring about these dogs, bringing this forward. 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:44.200 That's as compelling, if not more compelling, to me. 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:47.920 And that's what John Jackson said. He was like, he 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:52.160 basically said, the story there, you know, either way, even 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:55.439 the story if that didn't happen, he said, is as 0:49:55.480 --> 0:50:00.319 compelling as as as the original narrative. Yeah, but it 0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:02.200 and I mean we're kind of cutting right to the 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:08.799 chase here, But where did if that story was just 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:14.200 completely fabricated, it happened very quickly because Bob Plot his 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:19.360 third great grandfather would have been Johannas or George Plot 0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:24.640 third great grandfather, so not his dad, but his you know, 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:27.400 like you start going back and it's like not very 0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:32.960 far and somebody in that line had a really created 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:36.640 a really wild story and cemented it into the plot community. 0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.759 I mean there was most plot people wouldn't even question 0:50:39.840 --> 0:50:40.719 that story, am I Right? 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:41.160 Right? 0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:45.080 In the same way that our last conversation was a 0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:48.480 conversation about like to some degree, like what are humans 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:52.360 like when we're having these conversations about conservation and wildlife management? 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:55.920 We want to remove humans from that system, right, But 0:50:56.000 --> 0:50:57.799 that's a luxury that's only happened in the last one 0:50:57.880 --> 0:50:59.839 hundred and fifty to two hundred years. We're a part 0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:03.719 of the system. Us growing up in this world and 0:51:03.800 --> 0:51:06.399 learning to hunt, learning to interact with animals. We're an 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:08.600 integral part of the system. We're not a different system 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:17.800 that's removed as are you serious? Is talking the evolution 0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:20.960 in the progress of man is integral with hunting, the 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:24.280 species we hunt. We're a part of that same system. 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:26.279 We're not a different system. 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:26.600 Right. 0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.239 That's exactly right, And that's what the anti hunters tried 0:51:29.280 --> 0:51:31.800 to tell us, is that we're not part of that system. 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:34.080 That's only a narrative that's developed in the last one 0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:36.000 hundred and fifty two hundred years. Because we've had the 0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:37.600 luxury to be removed from it. 0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:38.840 And in the same. 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:44.000 Way, what's this got to do with plot bringing the 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:46.040 only the only thing that's standing the way from me 0:51:46.120 --> 0:51:50.120 tying this together is you. In the same way, we 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:54.439 look at oral narratives, oral histories and we look down 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:56.600 on them. We we we were like, oh, well that's 0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:58.759 not reliable because it was oral, and it's like, that 0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:01.680 is the story of humanity. The only way we gave 0:52:01.719 --> 0:52:05.839 our histories for the last thousand, the millennia preceding us 0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:08.040 is an oral history, the only reason we have anything 0:52:08.080 --> 0:52:09.839 at all. And so I think it is a very 0:52:09.960 --> 0:52:13.759 modern viewpoint to look at an oral tradition and go, well, 0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:14.719 that's not reliable. 0:52:14.960 --> 0:52:19.000 Yeah, show me. It really was the head to head conflict, 0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:22.560 and it was how much weight does an oral story 0:52:22.680 --> 0:52:25.840 carry versus what was on a piece of paper on 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:27.719 a cargo manifest. 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:32.280 Chris can tell you from a law enforcement perspective, before 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:37.000 all these crazy CSI shows came on TV, how good 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:40.440 was an eyewitness then who just saw something? Oh yeah, 0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:41.320 pretty reliable. 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:43.640 Now it's then you had dash cams, and then you 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:44.840 had to have dash cam. 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:47.279 Then you had to have fingerprints, DNA and all that 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:48.280 and a man's word. 0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.440 Yeah, that's a good point. So maybe back in the thirties, 0:52:52.840 --> 0:52:54.920 nobody would have even been asking these questions. 0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:59.560 Even in the early nineties before DNA and all this 0:52:59.640 --> 0:53:03.760 other stuff you watch. Getting back to what Brent said, 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.160 when a police officer took stand and he testified to something, 0:53:07.239 --> 0:53:10.239 he had credibility in the courtroom, and the defense attorney's 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:13.640 job was to discredit this law enforcement officer. And so 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:17.560 that's why, and I know Brent's heard this, they'll they'll 0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:20.200 sit there and they'll say, instead of staying officer Reeves, 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:23.759 you'll say, mister Reeves. Yeah, they'll try to discredit him. 0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:25.759 And I don't know what that has to do with 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:26.799 what we're talking about, but. 0:53:26.960 --> 0:53:29.440 Yeah, yeah, we see what you're saying, Brent. Is that, like, 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:33.240 what more do we need? I mean again, this idea 0:53:33.239 --> 0:53:36.799 of a head to head between the actual data in 0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:39.440 facts that we have, which are important we need, and 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:44.600 then an oral story, because what's compelling is that this 0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:47.360 plot family very quick. What we do know one hundred 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:51.240 percent is that George Plot had a bunch of dogs 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:54.680 that were unique to his to this part of the world, 0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:56.799 and he was he just came straight from Jerry. 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:59.439 What do you think, Michael, where they is there any 0:53:59.480 --> 0:54:02.520 documentation of a brindle hound in Germany? 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:04.040 Yeah? 0:54:04.120 --> 0:54:06.360 There is there. There's a Hanna very Okay, that's a 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:10.399 good point. There's a there is a breed of dog 0:54:10.560 --> 0:54:17.040 called Hannoverian Hounds, which and there is some brindle and 0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:19.719 docs AND's too. I'm told I. 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:28.600 Got a few questions. How do you spell johannas like Johannas? Okay? 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:31.200 So that now I'm gonna get onto Michael. What does 0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:33.360 this have to do what that? 0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:38.839 What did you say when you what anglicized sized? All right? 0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:41.400 That would be anglicized to John, not George. 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:44.200 Well we're not arguing that you have to take that 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:45.160 up with the plots? 0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:47.040 Well, I know, and I'm not going to tell anybody 0:54:47.080 --> 0:54:49.080 their family story because I don't really have a clue. 0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:51.720 I'm just this is just my mind. If someone asked 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.880 a question, this is where I'm going to go to. 0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:58.000 It was signed g Plot g Plot, not j Plot right, 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:02.240 all right, So Johanna's probably wasn't the name on the boat. 0:55:02.520 --> 0:55:03.000 Right, right? 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:05.600 And I mean that's what that's what John Jackson says. 0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:11.120 Yeah, it was probably George. How does a boy that's 0:55:11.200 --> 0:55:16.120 by himself, that his brother just died land in a 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:18.960 country where he has no money and no possessions and 0:55:19.000 --> 0:55:20.759 take care of five dogs and keep them alive. 0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:21.160 All well. 0:55:21.200 --> 0:55:22.800 But see, we don't know, we don't have any. 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:24.879 Any That's what I'm saying. I don't know if there's 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:28.280 more to the story I'm not hearing, or how where 0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:33.120 this goes in my opinion. Let me let me ask 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:33.560 you this too. 0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:39.799 They might kill you, you know that don't live They Gary? 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:45.440 Where where's your where's the the nukelems from England? England? Okay? 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:46.000 Negative? 0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:47.960 Scotland, Scotland, Scotland? 0:55:48.200 --> 0:55:51.759 Okay? Do you think they come from somewhere other than Scotland? 0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:54.520 What I mean is before they got to Scotland, were 0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:55.200 they somewhere else? 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:57.200 Yeah? 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:03.160 Okay, mm hm, you can't make these dogs out here, 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:05.520 saying from what I know from dog breeding. Out of 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:10.759 five dogs, okay, So there is so much in the 0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:13.880 any hound, not just plot. You're calling them Americana, the 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:18.560 same things with walker dogs, blue ticks, anything else. They 0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:24.680 got their body shape, their overall makeup from English hounds, 0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:29.560 long years European. Everything else was American. There's no tolls. 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:30.760 How much of that. 0:56:30.560 --> 0:56:32.839 Well, saying that's different about a plot than any other 0:56:33.120 --> 0:56:35.960 breed of the hound, says they are different, they're a 0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:39.040 different style of dog style. 0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:41.800 But if you just look at them, they're a hound. 0:56:42.160 --> 0:56:48.319 No, that's not true. Their ears are shorter, they're more 0:56:48.360 --> 0:56:52.520 of a flagtail and a traditional I do not believe, 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:59.000 because the Appalachian people are way too pragmatic to not 0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:04.400 breed the five they're Yeah, if old Ship was a 0:57:04.440 --> 0:57:07.240 good bear dog, this dog that I'm calling a plots 0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:08.240 getting bread bread. 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.800 Dorschure, which makes some Americana, But that was my point. 0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:15.640 The same thing happened in blue ticks, English walkers. They 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:19.320 were bred to curs. They were bread. The best squirrel 0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:23.000 dog I've ever seen in my life was half labbador 0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:26.640 and half chow. No kind of hound whatsoever, absolute tree 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:27.120 and machine. 0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:28.360 And you're saying that could have been. 0:57:28.400 --> 0:57:31.440 I'm saying that they they There may be a little 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:36.040 bit of German something in those dogs. But these hounds 0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:38.960 came what was mixed into them, come from Native Americans. 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:42.720 They come from the Appalachian people that were already here. Yeah, 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:45.640 And I don't see a difference in the plot story 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:48.400 and walkers or black and tans. 0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:52.480 Well, but okay, that but that's I could shoot some 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:53.360 holes in that boat. 0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:59.240 Uh No, But walkers, walkers. 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:00.800 And that photo right there, just like the walkers in 0:58:00.840 --> 0:58:03.640 your kennel. That's because they chose English. 0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:06.840 That's because they chose a color to breed to, because 0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:10.240 walker dogs started out as English dogs. Okay, they were 0:58:10.280 --> 0:58:12.800 the same dogs as blue ticks, the same dogs as 0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:16.360 red ticks, and they chose that color pattern and bread 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:16.840 for that coin. 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:18.880 I hear what you're saying, but you're not making your 0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:22.600 point very clear. What's your what's your? What's your? Just 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:27.280 give me one sentence. You're saying that they came from 0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:28.160 the dogs that were all. 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:31.280 Of those hounds, hounds of Americana, every one of them. They 0:58:31.320 --> 0:58:34.800 all have the same story. The difference in them is 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:37.840 that the plot hounds has one particular family that they 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:41.040 go back to. The rest of them are overall, but 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:44.000 the story of them is all the exact same. 0:58:44.080 --> 0:58:48.600 Okay, let me ask you this, why Why are why 0:58:48.640 --> 0:58:50.800 does the plot I see what you're saying about the 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:52.520 shape of a hound. I mean, I could give you 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:56.800 that they're shaped about like a hound, but all blue 0:58:56.840 --> 0:59:00.800 ticks and even I mean the brindle. The brindle is 0:59:00.920 --> 0:59:03.800 different than any other English hound. Where'd that? 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:04.200 Yes? 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:06.960 Yeah, well I don't know. I got a French bulldog 0:59:06.960 --> 0:59:10.840 that that's brindle. I don't know right well, that probably 0:59:10.960 --> 0:59:13.880 come from the mixing of all these other dogs into 0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:16.800 that that were not hounds but had the traits that 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:18.880 they were looking for. Or I told you had a 0:59:18.920 --> 0:59:21.440 lab and a chowd that would tree, so they would 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:23.880 have they were pragmatic, they would have took anything that 0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:26.520 would improved their dogs and put that in. 0:59:26.600 --> 0:59:28.919 So there's a case. And then I said it when 0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:31.160 I talked about and I'm not sure I used the 0:59:31.240 --> 0:59:35.720 correct term by saying that brindle was a recessive gene 0:59:35.720 --> 0:59:38.000 inside of all dogs. But I mean there are brindle 0:59:38.080 --> 0:59:42.280 boxers there. Brindle feist. My little feist out here is brindle. 0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:47.920 Brindle plots, brindle pitbulls like brendle is something. And that 0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:49.880 was my buddy, who's a big time plot man, is 0:59:49.880 --> 0:59:52.160 the one who brought that up to me. He was like, Clay, 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:54.120 if you just mix a bunch of dogs together, it's 0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:56.000 not long for you have a bunch of brindle. What 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.960 say you to this, Chris, I. 0:59:58.880 --> 1:00:02.240 Don't think I think you can I think you can 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:04.600 mix a lot of blue ticks together and you're never 1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:08.480 going to get brindle. Okay, So I think there is 1:00:10.240 --> 1:00:15.000 there was a brindle. Yeah, it was a concentration from 1:00:15.080 --> 1:00:18.880 the Plot family. I'm more of I latch on because 1:00:18.920 --> 1:00:22.200 I am a romantic and historian and I like the 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:24.800 story of Johanna's Plot and that story. 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:26.440 I think he probably. 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:30.000 Came here with the intent of being a games keeper, 1:00:30.520 --> 1:00:33.520 you know, following his father's trade back in Germany. He 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:36.520 was probably an indentured servant at the time, so he 1:00:36.600 --> 1:00:38.720 already had a place to go. He didn't need money. 1:00:39.040 --> 1:00:41.480 Somebody picked him up off that boat and brought him 1:00:41.480 --> 1:00:44.080 down there, and he had some dogs with him, and 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:48.080 after he worked off his indentured servitude, he was also 1:00:48.160 --> 1:00:51.160 a man of means, you know, from getting money the 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:56.520 Old World country, which the Plots were influential type people, 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.400 you know, and they got it from somewhere. They were 1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:02.680 business people, they were horse people, and and I think 1:01:02.720 --> 1:01:05.200 they had the influence and the means to be able 1:01:05.280 --> 1:01:10.760 to to to and I'm not saying at all they 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:13.440 kept all the genetics within those five dogs. 1:01:13.440 --> 1:01:13.720 I'm with. 1:01:14.160 --> 1:01:16.360 I'm with I don't think anybody's saying that, but that's 1:01:16.400 --> 1:01:18.760 like the exaggerated fairy tale version. 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:19.360 Yeah. 1:01:19.240 --> 1:01:22.360 The reason that it's an Americana story is because of 1:01:22.400 --> 1:01:25.439 the deep, rich history. It's the first it's a North 1:01:25.480 --> 1:01:29.000 Carolina state dog. It's it's uh, you know, there's mountains 1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:33.400 named after the plot family. It just fits Americana. Yeah, 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:36.160 but you look, you look at the Walker dog, and 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:39.120 you can you can talk about George Washington, you know. 1:01:39.800 --> 1:01:42.400 So there's some some of they're not the same dogs. 1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:45.680 They're not the same dog, but they are the dogs 1:01:45.880 --> 1:01:49.520 where our tream Walkers came from. When you trace it backwards. 1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:52.080 Brant, what, what about the whole story was most important 1:01:52.120 --> 1:01:52.320 to you? 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:54.280 Who came from the English? Fox? 1:01:54.400 --> 1:01:54.480 Hu? 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:56.160 Yeah, but it was a black tank. 1:01:57.920 --> 1:02:01.200 I don't have that conversation, Brence. What was the most 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:03.680 saying that what stood out to you most? And you 1:02:03.680 --> 1:02:05.680 probably wouldn't have known that story much about it? 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:09.560 No, very little love it had I ever heard. But 1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:12.840 also the longer I listened to it, I could care 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:17.720 less which story was true. What fascinated me was the family, 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:20.560 and that's what is so it's so rich in it, 1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:23.240 and what's so American to me is they can trace 1:02:23.280 --> 1:02:26.680 it back to that family so far, and everyone was 1:02:27.760 --> 1:02:31.800 all in on these dogs, regardless of where they came from. 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:34.640 Once they got it started, they stayed with it. And 1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:37.800 it was father and son and grandson and grandson and 1:02:37.840 --> 1:02:41.800 grandson and nephew and uncle and everybody. And they're still 1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:46.400 there's still folks over there right now spelling their last 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:49.040 name P L O T T. And they've got those 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:50.920 dogs in the front yard. And to me, that is 1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:53.480 the absolute coolest thing. This will be a heck of 1:02:53.520 --> 1:02:55.760 a movie. This would beat Old Yeller to death. 1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:58.320 Yeah, it wasn an awesome story. My favorite part of 1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:00.240 the whole thing good was when you were right with 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:03.200 Bob in the beginning and he was saying, you know, 1:03:03.320 --> 1:03:06.000 they were here and this was his house. That was awesome. 1:03:06.080 --> 1:03:10.600 The story of them bringing those dogs in it, following 1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:13.320 them through history and the pride that they would have 1:03:13.320 --> 1:03:16.880 had is just awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had seven 1:03:16.920 --> 1:03:21.800 generations of the same females starting seven generations ago, and 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:25.440 they were I mean, they were it for me and 1:03:25.480 --> 1:03:27.360 they would feel the exact same way. But could you 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:30.320 imagine not seven generations ago, but when did they bring 1:03:30.320 --> 1:03:34.200 the dogs over seventeen? If you breed a female what 1:03:34.360 --> 1:03:36.080 most of the time around two or three years old, 1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:38.919 you're looking at a one hundred generations of dogs. Yeah, 1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:41.400 so they have one hundred generations of those dogs. 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:44.920 That's awesome, you know, to me the most, like if 1:03:44.960 --> 1:03:47.600 you're talking about how the plot story is different and 1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:50.320 out that we're trying to say, it's better than I've 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:52.440 had many people already say you should do one of 1:03:52.440 --> 1:03:54.600 these on the Walker breed, and I'm sure we could. 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:56.840 I mean, it's not as interesting though, well. 1:03:57.240 --> 1:04:00.320 But that's what I think to me being in adult 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:05.840 and I got into plots roughly nine years ago, that's 1:04:05.880 --> 1:04:07.480 kind of when I was introduced, so I was an 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:12.000 adult and I just it's like my eyes popped open 1:04:12.040 --> 1:04:14.560 when I went and saw Roy Clark and Tracy and 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:18.440 Ben Jones and Curtis Walker and who are some of 1:04:18.480 --> 1:04:20.600 the I mean Mark Defray up in Maine and Mark 1:04:21.240 --> 1:04:26.200 Dan Wagner and uh Ira Jones, Oh, can't forget Ira, 1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:30.320 Ricky Reinhart, all the guys that I know over there, 1:04:30.360 --> 1:04:32.800 and a bunch of people are going to get upset 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:34.560 if I don't start naming their names. Chris, who am 1:04:34.600 --> 1:04:40.360 I missing that I know? There's these incredible plot. People 1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:44.480 that just started deep in it. I mean they just 1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:48.640 bleed plot. And it's such a regional phenomena. That's to me, 1:04:48.720 --> 1:04:51.240 what's the coolest part of it. The whole thing is 1:04:51.240 --> 1:04:55.080 that it happened in a very small geographic area and 1:04:55.200 --> 1:04:59.280 was isolated geographically for basically one hundred and fifty years, 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:00.480 and then it. 1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:03.160 Just I mean that was that was put through the 1:05:03.280 --> 1:05:07.080 lens of this is a geographic region that has been 1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:10.680 sort of a national joke, like those people look at 1:05:10.720 --> 1:05:14.000 they've got nothing, and to be like this thing that 1:05:14.040 --> 1:05:16.320 I can take pride in that comes from here, that 1:05:16.520 --> 1:05:19.360 is my thing and is now nationally recognized as the 1:05:19.400 --> 1:05:22.160 best at what it does. I think that that sort 1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:25.640 of incongruency or seeming incongruency. 1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:29.000 You're foreshadowing into the next episode. She hadn't even heard it, 1:05:29.120 --> 1:05:34.360 I know for real. We talk about how that that 1:05:34.880 --> 1:05:37.560 these people didn't have much, but this is something they had. Yeah, 1:05:37.960 --> 1:05:40.400 they were valuable and that's why it became so valuable. 1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:43.360 They were valuable enough to be to be hauled out 1:05:43.520 --> 1:05:47.360 to places like Oregon when the timber trade took off 1:05:47.400 --> 1:05:50.680 an Oregon. These apple Chians who have been cutting chestnuts 1:05:50.680 --> 1:05:53.280 and all this other stuff for generations. It's like, yeah, 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:55.560 we can cut down big trees. When they went, they 1:05:55.560 --> 1:05:58.360 took their dogs. Yeah, you know that, And that's how 1:05:58.400 --> 1:06:01.040 the brindle dogs end up in the North. 1:06:01.080 --> 1:06:03.920 Today the plot is all over. I mean, you go 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:06.640 to Wisconsin and Michigan, they're big hubs. 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:09.000 James lived in Illinois. 1:06:09.120 --> 1:06:13.000 He was a big coon hunter on big big game bread. 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:15.520 Some of the best big game dogs you got Salmon 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:19.160 River dogs that Doc smith Out had had out in Salmon, Idaho. 1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:19.680 Yeah. 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:25.120 Yeah, what Chris give me kind of like a tour 1:06:25.440 --> 1:06:32.120 of the plot plot geographically, can I mean, we're not 1:06:32.120 --> 1:06:34.480 gonna hit everybody, So if you're offended by this, and 1:06:34.880 --> 1:06:39.480 I'm sorry, but like my buddy, my dear dear friend 1:06:39.800 --> 1:06:43.640 of of our family, the Clarks and East Tennessee Laurel 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:47.000 Mountain plots, who is his name? Some of them there's 1:06:47.040 --> 1:06:48.080 no way we can name them all. 1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:52.720 Well, so you know, Everett Ever ended up taking you know, 1:06:53.080 --> 1:06:55.520 dogs and getting them in Illinois, and those were the 1:06:55.520 --> 1:06:57.880 wims Bread dogs. And then you had plots, you have 1:06:57.960 --> 1:07:03.120 Weams bread and then those turned into swampland dogs and 1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:08.240 Mike Colley's and then you got well swampland was Leroy 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:13.000 Hogg in it. Indian Mike Coley ends up with the 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:15.880 buy you caging plots that he's been breeding on for years. 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:19.600 You've got, uh, the Houston Valley plots in eastern Tennessee. 1:07:20.160 --> 1:07:23.360 You've got the Salmon River plots that that were out 1:07:23.440 --> 1:07:25.040 in the Salmon River country. 1:07:25.520 --> 1:07:25.760 Uh. 1:07:25.840 --> 1:07:29.560 You get the Bluff Creek plots in Oklahoma or Kansas. 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:32.280 You know, so it's it's it was one of. 1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:34.520 Those deal Pocahontas and poc. 1:07:36.240 --> 1:07:42.439 You've got the the Redwood plots that Jeff Coons kind 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:47.760 of inherited from his uncle and and developed into highly 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:54.480 skilled dogs. You got the Serge bread plots from Ohio Brandenburg. 1:07:54.680 --> 1:07:56.160 That was an older I. 1:07:56.120 --> 1:07:58.120 Mean good enough. I mean just the point is is 1:07:58.160 --> 1:08:01.720 that white inside of the plot world, there's these little 1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:05.480 narrow channels and people just go nuts over them. I mean, 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:08.800 people are looking for certain dogs, they are bred in 1:08:08.840 --> 1:08:10.680 certain ways, and just to the average person to be 1:08:10.760 --> 1:08:14.120 like it's just a plot, but there's there's these real 1:08:14.200 --> 1:08:18.000 specific things connected to real specific people, and it's it's 1:08:18.080 --> 1:08:19.559 like it's just kind of neat. 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:22.080 Do these dogs start to get different looks. 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:22.599 Yeah, you can. 1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:26.280 If a real student of the plot breed, well we'll 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:30.200 be able to tell. You know, branden Burger plots were 1:08:30.200 --> 1:08:32.559 a little bigger and a little houndier looking than what 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:36.400 some other and a real good person better than I am, 1:08:36.920 --> 1:08:39.120 can walk through plot days and say, well, that's a 1:08:39.840 --> 1:08:42.600 you know, that's a Pocahontas, and that's a brand you 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:43.639 know this. 1:08:43.520 --> 1:08:45.040 Is they do have a Look. 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:52.040 Yeah, I love hounds, all of them. And I've never 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:55.080 really paid much attention plots because there's not very many 1:08:55.080 --> 1:09:00.160 around here, but undeniably they have the best backstory of 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:00.880 any of them. 1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:02.080 Yeah. 1:09:02.080 --> 1:09:04.559 Absolutely, there's none of the rest of these hounds. So 1:09:04.680 --> 1:09:06.960 you know, you have Blue Ticks with the Vaughans and 1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:09.160 and those guys, and you have the Walker Dogs with 1:09:09.280 --> 1:09:11.800 the Gettings up there, and there's there's several different but 1:09:11.920 --> 1:09:13.720 none of them have the type of story that a 1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:14.559 plot hound has. 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:17.160 Yeah. Yeah, that's what That's why I like them. Now 1:09:17.240 --> 1:09:19.439 what stood out to you just taking the whole story, 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:25.240 like what surprised you? What? What what stood out? Well, 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:29.920 it's amazing that a family name could be attached to 1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:33.240 those dogs for so long and and and I like 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:37.600 to play the game of who's right? Was it the 1:09:37.640 --> 1:09:40.800 two boys coming from Germany? Was it George family coming over? 1:09:40.960 --> 1:09:44.599 So you made a compelling argument. You guys just really 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:47.479 did a great job. My argument would be that this 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:51.400 was a smart, successful family. You got a guy here 1:09:51.439 --> 1:09:52.160 that wrote a book. 1:09:52.560 --> 1:09:57.080 Yeah, I trust oral, you know, Uh, they couldn't find 1:09:57.160 --> 1:10:02.320 documentation to support or but I mean, these are these 1:10:02.320 --> 1:10:06.720 are brilliant people, successful people. You don't see the new 1:10:06.760 --> 1:10:09.679 com name all over the world. I mean, these guys, 1:10:09.720 --> 1:10:13.680 there's something special about these plot people. And they're not 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:21.880 going to pass down lies. I mean, oh, George boy Henry, 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:26.559 Henry tells Monty, Monty tells, Yeah, John got it. I mean, 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:30.080 and it goes up to your buddy Bob. That's not 1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:31.120 too far back. 1:10:31.479 --> 1:10:35.080 Yeah yeah. You know, so you're you're saying it's not 1:10:35.320 --> 1:10:38.880 that they didn't just fabricate an outright lin Yeah. 1:10:38.640 --> 1:10:41.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I admit that 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:42.720 it could be the other way. 1:10:42.880 --> 1:10:45.479 I mean, but well, that's a big question that has 1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:48.760 to be answered. Yeah, was there a family reunion when 1:10:48.760 --> 1:10:51.040 they're like back in the eighteen hundreds. Before they do, 1:10:51.160 --> 1:10:53.240 there's gonna be an internet or anybody's gonna care. 1:10:54.960 --> 1:11:00.400 We hey, Moses wrote the Book of Genesis thousands years 1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:02.880 after the Garden Eden. So do you believe that or not? 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:03.559 There you go. 1:11:03.800 --> 1:11:06.280 If you can't believe that, then the plot story probably 1:11:06.280 --> 1:11:06.760 didn't free you. 1:11:09.280 --> 1:11:12.040 It's probably a little bit of both. Yeah, just like 1:11:12.120 --> 1:11:15.120 any other story that's probably a little bit of both. 1:11:15.280 --> 1:11:15.479 Yeah. 1:11:15.520 --> 1:11:15.880 Yeah. 1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:18.799 And and in all fairness to John or mister Jackson, 1:11:19.240 --> 1:11:22.760 John Jackson, I don't feel like he I felt like 1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:24.519 he was very measured in his response. 1:11:24.680 --> 1:11:25.360 It was moral. 1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:27.040 I could not find documents. 1:11:27.240 --> 1:11:28.559 Yeah he wasn't. 1:11:28.560 --> 1:11:29.960 He wasn't. Yeah, I don't. 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:32.480 I didn't feel like it was too antagonistic or aggressive. 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:38.800 Yeah, and no doubt. Well I tried to make it 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:42.120 clear too that you know, one option would be that 1:11:42.240 --> 1:11:44.519 this family, just to go along with what you said, 1:11:44.960 --> 1:11:53.040 were so sharp, dominant, socially successful that maybe not even 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:58.320 with intentionality, the plot name just got attached to them, right, 1:11:58.360 --> 1:12:00.519 And that's kind of what John Jackson says. And it 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:04.000 wasn't like they did this as some kind of conspiracy. 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:06.559 It just happened on its own, you know, and it 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:10.680 emerges the plot hound, But really the bigger web was 1:12:10.840 --> 1:12:15.000 much bigger in many other families in theory, and this 1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:18.280 is an exaggerated thing. But in theory, there could have 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:23.040 been some other family that was as involved but not 1:12:23.120 --> 1:12:25.800 as vocal. I mean, that's kind of the idea, which 1:12:26.439 --> 1:12:30.000 there's no evidence that really supports that, Like there was 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:35.080 not another dominant family. And what my friend, I'm not 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:36.840 gonna say his name because he might feel like he's 1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:40.599 gonna get in trouble. He told me a friend of ours, 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:44.799 Chris over in Appalachia. That's a big plot, man, He said, Clay, 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:52.000 can you imagine a family an Appalachia that was raising dogs, 1:12:52.800 --> 1:12:56.479 two families raising dogs breaking down, Two families raising dogs 1:12:57.400 --> 1:13:00.320 that were the same and they'd been working together in 1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:04.839 one family gets to name the dog after their family, 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:07.519 he said, don't you think the other family would be 1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:08.320 throwing a fit? 1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:11.639 Oh? Yeah, you see, you see what you're. 1:13:11.520 --> 1:13:14.920 Saying, Like as if the plots came in and like 1:13:15.120 --> 1:13:17.160 swooped in to get all the glory for this thing. 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:17.439 Yeah. 1:13:18.360 --> 1:13:21.320 And this guy was like no, he said, and he 1:13:21.360 --> 1:13:24.200 basically was like I think they got it. Honest. 1:13:24.479 --> 1:13:27.879 Yeah, you know, you hear documentation of the other family going. 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:31.599 Hold up, this is the Jones dog. 1:13:32.240 --> 1:13:34.599 I can tell you. I can tell you that even 1:13:34.640 --> 1:13:38.519 within an established breed, you know, breeding for trades, breeding 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:41.840 for confirmation, breeding for color, and things like that, it's 1:13:41.920 --> 1:13:45.439 tough to do by yourself, even your own family. You're 1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:48.559 gonna need a network of people. Yes, so that would 1:13:48.560 --> 1:13:51.720 be a regional thing for Appalachia at the time. You know, 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:54.439 there's other people in the community that need a bear dogs, 1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:57.559 and the plots had the dogs. But when it comes 1:13:57.600 --> 1:14:00.080 back to it, and now I've got to breed the 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:03.559 next generation a dog, It's like, is that a plot? Well, 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:05.120 I don't know if it's a plot dog or not. Well, 1:14:05.160 --> 1:14:07.160 it looks like a plot. It's a really good bear dog. 1:14:07.200 --> 1:14:09.800 It's going to fit into this program. We can make 1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:12.320 this work. You know, that dog's got traits that I like. 1:14:12.479 --> 1:14:15.679 So he's not gonna he's not gonna upset the apple 1:14:15.760 --> 1:14:19.320 card here. So I really like him. Let's let's add him. 1:14:19.320 --> 1:14:22.759 That's just a development. That's a natural development of Yeah, 1:14:22.800 --> 1:14:26.479 whether it's cattle breed, uh, dog, sheep or whatever, you know. 1:14:26.880 --> 1:14:29.479 Yeah, and and and undoubtedly that happened. 1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:31.559 And at some point it got to the point where, 1:14:32.040 --> 1:14:35.720 you know, Vaughn a few generations later, he already had 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:38.240 his breed type. He already had his standard. Isaiah Kidd, 1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:41.120 all those guys, they all had that breed standard and stuff, 1:14:41.320 --> 1:14:43.479 and so they didn't breed outside of it. Their gene 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:45.439 pool was big enough where they could stay within the 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:46.559 breed type and. 1:14:46.520 --> 1:14:48.320 Boom, boom boom. That just exploded. 1:14:48.600 --> 1:14:52.200 Yeah, well it didn't explode, but there's still rare. 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:55.040 I was going to bring up. I had somebody, uh 1:14:55.160 --> 1:14:57.599 that got on to me for They said I bashed 1:14:57.640 --> 1:15:02.360 forward trucks. I said, it's like building a forward truck. 1:15:03.360 --> 1:15:08.640 We needed some overseas parts, but making America made and 1:15:08.800 --> 1:15:11.880 uh and they thought it was like a that like 1:15:11.920 --> 1:15:13.120 a punched afford. 1:15:13.360 --> 1:15:14.719 Oh really, it was crazy. 1:15:15.280 --> 1:15:17.679 I could have said anything. I could have used any 1:15:17.800 --> 1:15:20.479 single I thought it was funny though, that that was triggered. 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:24.080 Yeah they were, Yeah, somebody was triggered on that. That 1:15:24.240 --> 1:15:32.559 was funny. Well, uh, what other thoughts? Yeah, this I 1:15:32.640 --> 1:15:38.120 have been working on this in ways for a long 1:15:38.160 --> 1:15:41.479 long time. I did those interviews two years ago, and 1:15:41.520 --> 1:15:42.160 I actually did. 1:15:43.360 --> 1:15:43.559 Yeah. 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:45.599 I sounded younger. Wasn't it smart though? 1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:50.160 But it was. 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:53.519 It was a lot of fun And I think I 1:15:53.560 --> 1:15:55.800 think people that aren't even in the hounds could listen 1:15:55.840 --> 1:15:58.040 to it because it really wasn't about no. 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:00.160 It was a family store America. 1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:04.920 It's American history, and it's a legacy, and it's you 1:16:05.000 --> 1:16:06.800 find a lot of value in it if you, and 1:16:06.840 --> 1:16:08.479 all you got to do is look is just barely 1:16:08.479 --> 1:16:11.519 look under the surface of it. I know you've heard 1:16:11.560 --> 1:16:13.080 me talk about and I've talked about it on my 1:16:13.240 --> 1:16:16.320 podcast about my dad Squirrel. The squirrel dogs in my 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:20.240 family started with my great grandfather. Well, it ended with 1:16:20.360 --> 1:16:23.360 me and my brother. Well, we have no more of them. 1:16:23.400 --> 1:16:24.000 They're gone. 1:16:24.520 --> 1:16:27.680 There will never be any more of those dogs. And 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:30.040 that is what's so cool about it to me and 1:16:30.120 --> 1:16:32.600 even emotional when I when I listen to it and 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:36.280 think about all of that history with that family, and 1:16:36.479 --> 1:16:40.040 you're there's more. I cannot absolutely I can't wait for 1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:41.200 the rest of it. 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:46.120 I don't think people, including me, understand the dedication that 1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:49.280 takes to have a generational line of hounds. 1:16:49.280 --> 1:16:51.240 That's what I was going to say. It's an incredible 1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:54.280 amount of work those seven generations. I had seven generations 1:16:54.280 --> 1:16:57.240 of females all the way back. I didn't feel like 1:16:57.320 --> 1:17:00.120 breeding for a little while, and I didn't, and the 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:03.280 last one died the day the heck was born and 1:17:03.360 --> 1:17:05.639 that's it. They're gone. No more of them. Yeah, that's it. 1:17:06.040 --> 1:17:09.080 And to and to think going back that many, that 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:13.960 many general, it just takes a ton of intentionality. Uh yeah, 1:17:14.080 --> 1:17:15.800 how many plots do you have, Chris? Right now? 1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:17.840 I've got two right now too? 1:17:18.720 --> 1:17:18.880 Two? 1:17:19.280 --> 1:17:20.759 Yeah. What's their breeding? 1:17:22.560 --> 1:17:25.080 They're buy you caging plots call these stuff. 1:17:25.439 --> 1:17:26.599 Yeah, good, yep. 1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:30.880 Well, I am big time in the market for a 1:17:30.920 --> 1:17:35.200 plot female. I've decided. I told these guys, so this, 1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:37.240 this is funny, and this will give you a little 1:17:37.280 --> 1:17:40.519 bit of insight as we close down into the way 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:44.759 people think about these things. Is so my good plot 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:49.000 female that I had, Yeah, Fern Newcomb's Ozark b C. 1:17:49.240 --> 1:17:52.000 Fern b C stands for Bluff Creek. Got it from 1:17:52.040 --> 1:17:55.080 Steve Herd. She was all I needed a koon dog 1:17:55.360 --> 1:17:57.840 and and and you know, if I had another one 1:17:57.920 --> 1:17:59.439 like her for the rest of my life, I'd be happy. 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:02.280 Doesn't mean she was good, doesn't mean she was bad. 1:18:02.520 --> 1:18:03.240 I just liked her. 1:18:05.360 --> 1:18:07.679 She got she died last winter. 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:08.200 She died. 1:18:10.680 --> 1:18:13.360 Plot coon dogs are hard to find. I mean, it's 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:16.080 not that hard to like get a plot. But I 1:18:16.160 --> 1:18:18.960 tried to replace her for five years before she died, 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:24.240 Like I I got I told you all that, and 1:18:24.240 --> 1:18:26.760 and and and got rid of went through I think 1:18:26.960 --> 1:18:30.519 four different dogs, and I even went as far as 1:18:30.520 --> 1:18:34.559 the hunt a walker dog Michael was gonna Michael had 1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:38.599 a dog, Michael. I hunted a dog for a couple 1:18:38.640 --> 1:18:40.960 of days that Michael had that was a fine hound. 1:18:41.000 --> 1:18:43.799 I mean, probably better than any how that I've ever handled. 1:18:44.280 --> 1:18:49.200 And what I learned was I didn't want to I 1:18:49.200 --> 1:18:52.640 didn't want a walker dog. I thought I wanted a 1:18:52.680 --> 1:18:53.200 coon dog. 1:18:53.320 --> 1:18:53.960 What I don't. 1:18:54.040 --> 1:18:56.519 I didn't really want a coon I wanted a plot 1:18:56.520 --> 1:18:59.559 coon dog. Because I actually try a hunted another walker 1:18:59.720 --> 1:19:03.720 during this summer, and uh, a guy, you know, it's 1:19:03.760 --> 1:19:05.640 a friend of mine had a dog, said you know, 1:19:06.000 --> 1:19:08.320 and then it three nights and just gave it back 1:19:08.360 --> 1:19:11.720 to him and it wasn't the dog's fault. I just 1:19:11.920 --> 1:19:14.120 was kind of like, yeah, that was kind of dog's fault. 1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:18.439 But we just didn't do it for me. You like 1:19:18.560 --> 1:19:21.400 what you like, and it doesn't make any sense, and 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:25.080 I think it probably bum fuzzled my two dear walker 1:19:25.120 --> 1:19:27.200 friends here. They're like, hey, Claire, thought you wanted a 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:27.639 coon dog. 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:30.160 Yeah, here you go. I've always known you're weird. 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:32.519 You know why I got a walker dog because the 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:34.280 first dog I guy was a walker dog. Yeah. 1:19:34.320 --> 1:19:36.400 If that happened to me, that's the way I'd have been. 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:37.320 You know. 1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:40.720 It's just it's one of those things that there's a 1:19:40.760 --> 1:19:46.719 lot of really nice dogs out there of all colors. 1:19:46.800 --> 1:19:48.080 I mean, there really are. 1:19:50.439 --> 1:19:52.000 Plots. You take. 1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:55.280 You take like the Redwood line of plots, and you 1:19:55.400 --> 1:20:01.559 take like Johnny Hager from West Virginia, and he can 1:20:01.600 --> 1:20:05.599 compete just with anybody. You know, you know he's going 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:08.679 to be there. You're gonna know he was there anyway. Yeah, 1:20:08.960 --> 1:20:12.040 And and Evan Workman and Jeff Coons and and now 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:14.639 you know there's they're out there. But I always get 1:20:14.680 --> 1:20:17.120 tickled out of these guys that are you know, they're hunting, 1:20:17.360 --> 1:20:19.519 hunting a walker or something like this, and they're like, yeah, 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:22.720 I always always thought i'd try a plot sometime. It's like, man, 1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:26.679 you don't have enough buy in, you know, It's no, 1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:30.320 that's not the way this works. You have total buy in. 1:20:30.400 --> 1:20:33.840 It's like it's like liking the deer hunt and think, oh, 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:36.280 I think I'll pick up a flint lock and and 1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:38.320 go out and shoot a deer with it. You got 1:20:38.320 --> 1:20:40.080 to be more invested in it than that. 1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:41.640 It's not good. 1:20:41.800 --> 1:20:45.639 It's not easy. And I'm not even saying you're smart. 1:20:45.840 --> 1:20:47.120 I'm just saying it's not you know. 1:20:47.479 --> 1:20:51.519 Yeah, yeah, my life would be easier. I could go. 1:20:51.600 --> 1:20:53.599 I bet money we could. We should probably do it. 1:20:53.680 --> 1:20:56.880 I bet today, Dad, I bet I could buy five 1:20:57.040 --> 1:20:59.280 walker dogs in the state of Arkansas that we could 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:02.360 take out tonight and go trick the next four hours. 1:21:02.400 --> 1:21:05.320 I could I make four or five calls and I 1:21:05.360 --> 1:21:08.080 could get a good three year old dog if I 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:08.599 had the money. 1:21:08.640 --> 1:21:11.120 I mean you do. Yeah, I look at that. 1:21:11.520 --> 1:21:12.920 I'll tell you one one this is over. 1:21:15.880 --> 1:21:18.240 You did say if I had if I had ten 1:21:18.320 --> 1:21:22.040 grand and you said, Clay, go find you a good 1:21:22.160 --> 1:21:26.599 two year old plot female coon dog, I'd be like, Okay, 1:21:26.680 --> 1:21:29.120 which direction do I go? I mean there might be 1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:31.599 out there and money talks that might be a problem 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:32.560 one out of somebody. 1:21:32.880 --> 1:21:35.360 Why just because they're more big game hounds as well? 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:38.360 Well, No, long we're going to make this book. 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:41.880 This is what I made in part. I said this 1:21:41.960 --> 1:21:45.240 in a post on Instagram. I made them tag Brent Reeves. 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:52.200 The there's a there's one hundred walkers to every one plot, 1:21:52.240 --> 1:21:55.839 maybe more, maybe a thousand walkers. Like if you actually 1:21:55.880 --> 1:21:59.200 did the population dynamics on the breed of dog, let's 1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:02.200 just say there's a hundred to one. If I give 1:22:02.240 --> 1:22:04.639 you one hundred tries to throw a bean bag through 1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:09.519 a hole and I get one, you're gonna win every 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:12.960 single time. And my point is that because I mean, 1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:15.280 you have joked Brent, and I've said that to Brent 1:22:15.320 --> 1:22:17.200 before and I'm pretty sure he was like, well, why 1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:20.000 do you think there's one hundred walkers because they're good 1:22:20.000 --> 1:22:23.400 and people want them. I don't think that good logic 1:22:23.520 --> 1:22:26.200 is not entirely true because it all has to do 1:22:26.280 --> 1:22:30.439 with access and the walker just I mean, you couldn't 1:22:30.439 --> 1:22:32.360 even get plots till the nineteen forties. 1:22:32.520 --> 1:22:34.400 Walker dogs are good entry level dogs. 1:22:35.600 --> 1:22:36.479 Yeah, I get to the top. 1:22:37.240 --> 1:22:39.519 And I'm not this is not degrading to walkers. I'm 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:44.640 just saying it's not that simple. And so they're just 1:22:44.680 --> 1:22:48.920 a smaller pool. They're primarily big game dogs. There's just yeah, 1:22:48.920 --> 1:22:50.719 it's just like, go right now and try to find 1:22:50.720 --> 1:22:53.800 a six week old plot. P up hard to find. 1:22:53.960 --> 1:22:56.479 When we were talking earlier, you know, I said plots 1:22:56.479 --> 1:23:00.000 are different and they are. And you know, in nineteen 1:23:00.200 --> 1:23:03.639 forty six, UKC decided to recognize them as a hound 1:23:04.880 --> 1:23:08.679 and it had some value for historical preservation and records 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:11.840 keeping and stuff like that. But at that point, now 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:14.680 you're allowed to go hunt them, and uk see night 1:23:14.760 --> 1:23:17.160 hunts in different So there's even a lot of strife 1:23:17.160 --> 1:23:23.240 within the plot breed breeders and fanciers between big game 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:28.280 bread and coon bread dog coon dog type stuff. Yeah, 1:23:28.360 --> 1:23:31.760 there's there's that kind of strife. There's strife, Well he's 1:23:31.760 --> 1:23:35.599 a good bear dog, but or he's a good hog dog. 1:23:35.680 --> 1:23:37.920 But they're not good they're too hard for bear. You know, 1:23:37.920 --> 1:23:39.760 you get them, kill them bear, you know. I mean, 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:41.800 you can just go on and on and on. You 1:23:41.800 --> 1:23:46.360 can make of all kinds of stuff. So the reason 1:23:46.439 --> 1:23:49.880 walkers are better is because people have one goal in mind, 1:23:50.520 --> 1:23:53.160 and that's to breed a good coon dog. Plot breeders 1:23:53.200 --> 1:23:56.200 want hog dogs, they want utilitarian dogs, they want bear dogs, 1:23:56.240 --> 1:23:57.080 they want coon dogs. 1:23:57.120 --> 1:23:58.559 They want Yeah, that's a good point. 1:23:58.640 --> 1:24:00.000 Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 1:24:00.000 --> 1:24:03.280 Walker breeders are like, we're going to tree coons with 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:06.360 this dog, and we're gonna win World champions ships and 1:24:06.360 --> 1:24:08.280 we're gonna win a lot of them and yep, and 1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:09.360 that's what they do. 1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:13.800 And Dad, that's the walker dominates the hound world. I 1:24:13.800 --> 1:24:18.360 mean dominates like you know, I don't know the big 1:24:18.520 --> 1:24:22.120 big World Championship hunts. How many have not been walkers 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:24.520 in the last twenty years. I mean there's been some 1:24:24.720 --> 1:24:28.760 English and so maybe a blue tick here and there, maybe. 1:24:28.479 --> 1:24:30.640 No, but not in UK. See blue ticks never won 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:31.320 UKC World. 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:36.000 But anyway, the dogs like the dog that you have 1:24:36.080 --> 1:24:38.080 if you're a coon dog guy. 1:24:38.680 --> 1:24:41.320 But so that's. 1:24:43.040 --> 1:24:44.479 Had a blue tick as a kid. 1:24:44.760 --> 1:24:46.920 Yeah, my first dogs were blue ticks. 1:24:47.560 --> 1:24:49.080 I was saying, the blue Ticks won some A C 1:24:49.320 --> 1:24:51.280 h A World hunts. 1:24:51.680 --> 1:24:54.200 And there was a plot that won the world one 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:57.800 time in the eighties, right, that was one that was 1:24:57.840 --> 1:25:03.240 like like back nineteen ninety four n C double a Chance, 1:25:03.560 --> 1:25:08.920 Corlis Williamson, Scottie Thurman beat Duke. That's nineteen ninety four, 1:25:09.080 --> 1:25:12.439 Go hogs. Right, that's the one thing we've got in 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:14.599 the whole state that our whole history. 1:25:14.680 --> 1:25:17.439 We got basketball and we got almost baseball. 1:25:17.560 --> 1:25:20.400 Well that's like the plots. When was nineteen eighty eight 1:25:20.479 --> 1:25:21.599 that dog won the world. 1:25:21.479 --> 1:25:24.479 Change they won the PKC World one time too. 1:25:24.760 --> 1:25:26.920 They won the PKC World yep. 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:29.040 So you know we got a few bright spots in 1:25:29.080 --> 1:25:32.320 the past, but we do have a good story. 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:35.800 Yeah, John walk Up won it, uh pk C and 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:39.679 Spud Reynolds and Jim Cannon won it with sizzling heat 1:25:40.160 --> 1:25:41.519 in the UKC World Hunt. 1:25:41.920 --> 1:25:45.400 M I guess I could use this platform to my 1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:47.880 advantage to try to appeal to some of these good 1:25:47.960 --> 1:25:48.680 plot coon men. 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:49.759 I thought that was the only. 1:25:51.280 --> 1:25:51.479 Yeah. 1:25:54.680 --> 1:25:57.040 Please the dog Burn, the dog that you and Michael 1:25:57.040 --> 1:26:00.200 are both hunted with, she was a good well, she 1:26:00.400 --> 1:26:04.240 was not. She was the only coon dog. I mean 1:26:04.720 --> 1:26:07.880 almost all those dogs went to be lying and bearing hogdogs. 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:10.200 Yeah, but a Fern could have been as good a 1:26:10.240 --> 1:26:14.960 coon dog as there is. Fern's little holes that she 1:26:15.120 --> 1:26:16.400 had was because of you. 1:26:17.320 --> 1:26:18.800 No doubt. 1:26:18.960 --> 1:26:21.400 Stuff that you let her do that was okay with you. 1:26:21.479 --> 1:26:23.599 So sure other than that, sure street coon as good 1:26:23.600 --> 1:26:24.599 as any dog I've ever seen. 1:26:25.040 --> 1:26:27.280 So you're being generous. He didn't say that when I'm 1:26:27.280 --> 1:26:28.080 not around. 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:30.400 No, he does. That's the truth. I've seen him now 1:26:30.880 --> 1:26:31.479 he saw it. 1:26:32.280 --> 1:26:35.639 I've been around some top plot coon dogs. I mean there, yeah, 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:39.080 they're out there, but they're hard to They're just hard 1:26:39.080 --> 1:26:39.800 to get your hands on. 1:26:40.439 --> 1:26:46.639 Yeah, yep. Well uh any closing thoughts. Yeah, just one thought. 1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:49.640 I can't remember which one it was, but one of 1:26:49.640 --> 1:26:56.080 those boys, Mont or his boy Wab Yeah, uh said 1:26:56.120 --> 1:26:59.320 he would never have a bathroom inside of house he 1:26:59.360 --> 1:27:00.000 was living there. 1:27:01.160 --> 1:27:03.559 Yeah. I thought I thought about that two different times 1:27:03.560 --> 1:27:05.080 today just driving down the road. 1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:10.080 I mean, he wasn't the only one in that time 1:27:10.120 --> 1:27:13.839 period that thought that either. That was a yeah, I left. 1:27:13.640 --> 1:27:16.000 That in there because there was such a little nugget 1:27:16.680 --> 1:27:19.720 he said. He said, I will he didn't have an 1:27:19.720 --> 1:27:23.920 indoor bathroom until like the nineteen forties because he said, 1:27:23.960 --> 1:27:26.360 I will never go to the bathroom in my house. 1:27:26.479 --> 1:27:29.680 How crazy are you? That was good now that that 1:27:29.720 --> 1:27:31.759 plot history over there, Golly, if you're ever in western 1:27:31.800 --> 1:27:35.360 North Carolina, Maggie Valley Heywood, I know you've seen all 1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:40.599 the sites. Chris. There's a really neat historical marker put 1:27:40.640 --> 1:27:43.000 up by the state of North Carolina that looks over 1:27:43.040 --> 1:27:46.840 the plot Balsam Range and it has a a big bronze, 1:27:47.040 --> 1:27:49.240 you know, about the half the size of a truck 1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:52.240 hood that has the story of the plot hound. You 1:27:52.280 --> 1:27:54.920 know it says that the Plots they lived here, they 1:27:55.000 --> 1:27:58.400 hunted here, they did this really cool. And then Bob 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:02.280 just gave me the tour man one day. I mean, 1:28:02.320 --> 1:28:06.040 I'll realize what a unique thing I had spending the 1:28:06.160 --> 1:28:09.040 day a lot more than that with with Bob Plott 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:11.080 over there, such a neat guy. 1:28:11.600 --> 1:28:18.880 And yeah, the cabin in the White House, those need 1:28:18.960 --> 1:28:23.280 to be preserved, if nothing, in really good photography and 1:28:23.360 --> 1:28:28.200 put it somewhere on display. I mean, I can't believe 1:28:28.200 --> 1:28:31.160 those two places are just well, they're not being neglected. 1:28:31.280 --> 1:28:35.240 Well, listen to this. So mont Plott's house that was 1:28:35.280 --> 1:28:38.240 built in like nineteen oh three, Yeah, nineteen oh three, 1:28:38.800 --> 1:28:42.439 somebody has It's not in the Plot family anymore. Somebody 1:28:42.479 --> 1:28:45.519 has bought that and they've fixed it up and it's 1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:49.200 a beautiful home, probably worth a ton of money. They 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:53.120 kept it classic though, they kept it, they held true. 1:28:53.240 --> 1:28:57.120 Just imagine a really nice home that's been renovated but 1:28:57.280 --> 1:29:01.240 still holds the kind of the tradition looks and styles. 1:29:02.040 --> 1:29:05.400 And so me and Bob went to this man's house, 1:29:05.479 --> 1:29:08.000 knocked on the door. Bob knew him, and he's like, 1:29:08.080 --> 1:29:10.519 oh Bob, and he's like, hey, these are plot men 1:29:10.560 --> 1:29:13.320 they want to see, you know, Mont's old house, and 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:15.960 he took us all through the house and real neat 1:29:16.160 --> 1:29:20.040 in the cabin is surprisingly still intact. They've got they've 1:29:20.080 --> 1:29:22.920 done a good job of keeping it up. But it's 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:24.640 not public. I mean, it's not like you can go 1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:27.360 there and knock on this guy's door, you know, and 1:29:27.600 --> 1:29:30.519 it's it's very private, and you know, they're not like 1:29:30.640 --> 1:29:34.240 telling you where it's at. But yeah, it's a massive 1:29:34.280 --> 1:29:35.080 piece of history. 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:38.840 The photography of it should be out for the public. 1:29:38.920 --> 1:29:41.360 And it is somewhere. Well, there's pictures of all that 1:29:41.400 --> 1:29:47.000 in Bob's book. Okay, yeah, strike and stay the story 1:29:47.000 --> 1:29:50.240 of the plot Hound. Yeah, man, support old Bob. He's 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:52.720 a he's a he's a great writer. He's done a 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:56.120 lot of writing in Southern Appalachia. He's got a stack. 1:29:55.840 --> 1:29:59.320 Of great Highlands that one of his or was it 1:29:59.400 --> 1:30:01.360 the legendary Hunters of the Southern Highlands. 1:30:01.479 --> 1:30:03.639 Yeah, that's it. There's a there's a bunch of them. 1:30:03.680 --> 1:30:08.519 There's some on the railroads and different things. But yeah, 1:30:08.680 --> 1:30:10.880 this has been great. Thank you Chris for coming from 1:30:10.880 --> 1:30:16.120 Indiana's man, Michael Chris, thank you for coming from South Arkansas. 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:23.840 Sun Spot lights, Southern Ish Arkansas. Uh Grady, all right? 1:30:24.240 --> 1:30:26.440 But Greig or Central Okay. 1:30:26.320 --> 1:30:35.000 Where somewhere somewhere down there, it doesn't matter. Isaac, good 1:30:35.000 --> 1:30:38.559 to have you, Brent, good to have you. Hey Meeteater's 1:30:38.600 --> 1:30:43.120 got a bunch of Black Friday sales first Light. If 1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:46.880 you want to take advantage of these big companies. 1:30:46.720 --> 1:30:47.400 Now's your time. 1:30:48.600 --> 1:30:51.200 Now's your time. Thank you, guys. 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:52.120 You bet