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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nuckleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render, where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by FHF Gear

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Speaker 1: American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed

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Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the place as we explore. So, Dad,

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Speaker 1: Michael Roseman was just saying that he thought it was

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Speaker 1: pretty suspicious that we moved to Mina in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and you became a banker and Mina right

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Speaker 1: when Barry Seal And what's the.

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Speaker 2: Movie, Michael, don't remember that?

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Speaker 3: The American Dream?

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Speaker 1: American Dream? Yeah, with with Tom Cruise and Bill Clinton

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Speaker 1: and drugs and the airport and everything. Yeah. Hey man,

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Speaker 1: I just don't know. You might have had something to

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Speaker 1: do with that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say it was suspicious. What I said was

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Speaker 2: I watched the movie put two and two together and

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Speaker 2: text Brint and I said, Hey, I don't know Clay's daddy,

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Speaker 2: but wasn't he a banker in Miena at this time?

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Speaker 2: How many banks are in Mina?

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Speaker 4: There were a lot apparently.

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Speaker 1: Uh, well, welcome to the bear Grease Render. Man, I've

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Speaker 1: been excited about this ever since I knew who was

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Speaker 1: going to be here. We have multiple I would say,

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Speaker 1: multiple new er Ish voices. I have. To my left,

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Speaker 1: Brent Reeves, Brent, good to see. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about Okay, We're gonna go around the room and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to tell each of you what I would like

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about, and then we're going to

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Speaker 1: come back to you. Brent. I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about Kin's Reward Brent's podcast. This week, we talked

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Speaker 1: about a horse named Ken's Reward. We got to come

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Speaker 1: back to that. To Brent's left, Isaac Neil Grease, assistant

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Speaker 1: to the assistant producer of Bear Grease from Missouri, from

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Speaker 1: the Queen, the Queen City of the Ozarks. Did you

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Speaker 1: know that Springfield, Missouri calls themselves the Queen City of

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Speaker 1: the Ozarks.

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Speaker 5: As far as as far as I know, King King

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Speaker 5: City of the Ozarks is up for grabs. So I

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Speaker 5: don't know what you're grasping about. We're just saying we're

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Speaker 5: the second best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can. You should call yourself the runner

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Speaker 1: up city of It's pretty good.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of cities in the Ozarks.

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Speaker 1: From the runner up city in the Ozarks, Isaac Neil

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Speaker 1: to Isaac's left, Michael Roseman, Hello, Man, Michael. So, Michael Dad,

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Speaker 1: he owns Operates, He's the engineer, he's the lead man, dishwasher,

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Speaker 1: dishwasher at sun Spot Coonlights. So the coon lights that

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Speaker 1: we sell on mediator dot com that me and Brent use,

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Speaker 1: the big high powered coon lights. This is the this

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Speaker 1: is a man behind it. So yes, yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: what I want to talk to Michael about later is

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Speaker 1: his new light. And I am going to tell everyone

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Speaker 1: in the United States that if you don't own one

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Speaker 1: of these, you should. I use my I use my

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Speaker 1: light all the time. And I don't even have a

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Speaker 1: coon dog right now. I have one retired dog that

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Speaker 1: backtracks a lot, so it's pretty straight. It just, uh,

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Speaker 1: we just hit a lot of dentrees after I lost

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Speaker 1: my good female. So I use my coon light almost

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Speaker 1: every day. Incredible light I use in the back country.

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Speaker 1: We'll get back to that. The guest of honor today

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Speaker 1: because he's come so far, is my buddy Chris Pale

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Speaker 1: of the Houndsman XP podcast How Far Do You Come Today?

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Speaker 4: I was like, I traveled for three weary days by

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Speaker 4: Mule and Donkey. We're talking.

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Speaker 5: We're talking physical distance because I thought there was personal

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Speaker 5: growth or something.

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Speaker 4: Like Yeah, there's always personal growth when you're traveling with

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Speaker 4: the terrier patients.

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Speaker 1: Oh you got your dog with you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I got tough with me.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 1: You came from Indiana, yes, the northwest Arkansas yep. Great. Well, okay, boys,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk to Chris about this newly proposed

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Speaker 1: it's gonna get serious Colorado legislation that's designed to shut

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Speaker 1: down mountain lion hunting with hounds in the state of Colorado.

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Speaker 1: So Chris is kind of he's he's stayed up to

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Speaker 1: date on that, and we're going to introduce that and

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Speaker 1: talk about it the world. We're going to come back

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Speaker 1: to that. So thank you so much for coming.

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Speaker 3: That was my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man. And then to your left believe or Nukem.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear your name come up on the podcast?

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Speaker 3: Nailed it?

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Speaker 2: Brother?

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm excited about this episode. It's been a

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Speaker 1: while since we've done a documentary style podcast. We've been

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Speaker 1: doing stories for ten weeks. So you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: new to this, if this is your first every time

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Speaker 1: to tune into the Bear Grease podcast. Our render is

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Speaker 1: when we talk about the documentary style podcast that we do,

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Speaker 1: and the last five episodes. We did two episodes Chris

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Speaker 1: in September on Alaska Stories, which just was a compilation

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Speaker 1: of wild, harrowing Alaskan stories, which I really enjoyed, and

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Speaker 1: then we did three full deer hunting episodes, which to

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Speaker 1: me are some of my favorite things that we do. I'

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Speaker 1: just like hearing the way people think about a moment

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Speaker 1: inside of their hunting career. Really, it's just like a

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Speaker 1: to these guys that I know about him, I have

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Speaker 1: respect for, and I'm like, tell me your best, dear story.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that. So, all right, going back the

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Speaker 1: other direction, Brent yep Ken's Reward. So, Brent on this

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Speaker 1: Country Life podcast, I'm going to take a little bit

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Speaker 1: of credit for a lot of the success of This

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Speaker 1: Country Life.

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Speaker 3: I wish Mystery was here because the.

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Speaker 1: Way this works, Dad is Brent, we'll be driving somewhere.

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Speaker 1: He told me the story of Ken's.

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Speaker 3: Reward years ago, Yeah, a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, dude, you need to figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to tell that story on This Country Life.

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Speaker 1: So if you haven't heard it, which, go back and

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Speaker 1: listen to it. Brent had Brent's dad bought him a horse,

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Speaker 1: yea from a sale in Ada, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: How old were you, Brent?

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Speaker 3: Oh, let's see, I would have probably in nineteen eighty eight.

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Speaker 3: I'd have been twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Where it's twenty two years old. His dad and his

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Speaker 1: best friend go to horse sale in Ate, Oklahoma and

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Speaker 1: get a great deal on a pure bred American quarter

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Speaker 1: horse that was supposedly a horse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he couldn't buck. They said he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: buck good enough, so they made a cow horse up.

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Speaker 1: They wanted him for a bucking horse.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's what.

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Speaker 1: They made him into. A roping horse.

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Speaker 3: Yep, they made him into a You got to hear.

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Speaker 1: Him tell the story.

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Speaker 3: You did.

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Speaker 1: You did a good job of telling the story. And

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Speaker 1: but the but the but the whole podcast was about

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Speaker 1: animal names, like why do we name animals the way

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Speaker 1: we do? And he it's a mystery why this horse

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Speaker 1: was named Ken's Reward because you know, he ends up

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of trouble with the horse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was not he was not conducive to what

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Speaker 3: what I wanted him to do. And what I wanted

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Speaker 3: him to do was be able to get on him

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Speaker 3: and ride him and get off of him without having

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Speaker 3: to are Yeah, without any type of medical personnel involved

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Speaker 3: in it. I just wanted to get on a horse

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Speaker 3: and go from point A to point B. It sounds simple,

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Speaker 3: and then come back and both of us be happy.

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Speaker 3: And that just it didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: That was it didn't work out with Ken's Reward. No,

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Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do. Here's what we're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: If you are in agreement with it, We're putting out

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Speaker 1: an APB across the bear grease world if somebody can

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Speaker 1: legitimately tell us and verify where, like who owned Ken's

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Speaker 1: Reward and what the story was. All we know was

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Speaker 1: that in nineteen eighty eight it was bought at a

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Speaker 1: horse selle in eight, Oklahoma, and it supposedly came from Texas.

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Speaker 3: And I saw the papers. It is an absolute one

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Speaker 3: registered American quarter horse. I saw the papers and his

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Speaker 3: name was Ken's Reward, ky E n apostrophe s Reward. Okay,

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Speaker 3: that was it.

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Speaker 1: Whoever can get us in touch with Ken, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: should should Ken no longer be with us? Ken's Ken?

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Speaker 1: I will give you one of these, a genuine Arkansas

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Speaker 1: plot treed coonskin hat, land Bridge spillmaker. Yeah, for a

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Speaker 1: plot to tree a coon. Yeah, that's rare.

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Speaker 3: I tell you what I'll do. I'll sweeten the pot.

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Speaker 3: I'll throw in a case mini trapper pocket knife.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's the deal. Now. It's hard to ride out Like,

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Speaker 1: we're not lawyers here, but it's really got to be

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Speaker 1: a genuine, like verifiable lead where we could talk to

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Speaker 1: someone and get some sense of why this horse was

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Speaker 1: named Ken's Reward? Any holes in this planned, Chris.

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Speaker 4: I don't see any. I'm looking at the hat. I

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Speaker 4: mean it's that coonskin cap, right, there's legit. We know

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Speaker 4: what a mini trapper is. I mean, somebody's just got

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Speaker 4: to come up with the right info.

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Speaker 1: Are there any loopholes though, Dad? Like, could someone like liars?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean, but it's gonna We're gonna have to talk

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Speaker 1: to Ken. Now. Somebody had to be pretty good to

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Speaker 1: pull the wool over our eyes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, is this is this Ken's Rewards Reward?

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Speaker 4: That's it, right, I have seen the papers and you

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Speaker 4: don't need to disclose it here. But do you know

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Speaker 4: how that horse was bred? No, okay, I don't. I

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Speaker 4: don't remember. It's one of the verification things out the

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Speaker 4: window right there.

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Speaker 3: I don't. I don't remember, but I'll tell you what

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Speaker 3: I have. I've thought about a million times, and I

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Speaker 3: didn't have a young and in the world when I

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Speaker 3: had that horse. Since then, I've had three. And every

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Speaker 3: time I helped them with a school project that involved glue,

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Speaker 3: I fantasized about me squeezing ken out on a piece

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Speaker 3: of paper. Oh yeah, that's where he wound up.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: But that's dark.

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Speaker 5: That's really saying something.

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Speaker 3: I'm just telling you. You tried to kill me.

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Speaker 1: That is pretty dark.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I be remiss to not point out

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Speaker 5: that you're halfway to be in a long hunter. By

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Speaker 5: the time you get that hat and that knife, you're

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Speaker 5: just missing a set of buckskins.

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Speaker 1: And that is a great I'm glad you're reminded me.

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Speaker 3: That was.

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Speaker 1: What we're going to talk to Clay about today is

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Speaker 1: me and Steve Vanella and a team at Meat Eater.

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Speaker 1: One of those team members was Randall Williams, doctor Randall,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Randall. We talked about it this week, but we've

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Speaker 1: come out with an audio original. It's essentially an audio

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Speaker 1: book about the Long Hunters and it's it's available for

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Speaker 1: pre sale. Did you see that dad on the internet?

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Speaker 1: Do you get on the internet much? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Internet, We've we've done a terrible job of marketing.

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Speaker 4: Is on the internet right now.

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Speaker 1: This week meat Eater announced our audio book called The

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Speaker 1: Long Hunters seventeen sixty one to seventeen seventy five by

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Speaker 1: Steve Vanella Clay Nukeomb narrated by Steve Vnellen Clay Nukemb.

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Speaker 1: And it is never before compile data on the Long Hunters.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm serious, there has never before been this

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Speaker 1: data crunched together in such a compact way. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's incredible and it's really cool. And so you can

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Speaker 1: pre order that now through Penguin Random House, through the

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Speaker 1: links that are you know, on media and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: it'll come out on January ninth.

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Speaker 5: Put a link in the description.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm very excited about that. It was a

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Speaker 1: ton of fun. So basically it's it's me and Steve

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Speaker 1: Vanella kind of going back and forth in this audio

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Speaker 1: book and h really cool.

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Speaker 6: So I can tell you one thing about the Internet

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Speaker 6: is every time I even turn around, Brent Reeves comes

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Speaker 6: up going this country life and I'm going to back off, man.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I got I gotta look for yours. I mean,

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Speaker 6: I gotta go. Come on, Clay, I need, I need

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Speaker 6: to watch this. And all of a sudden, on the

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Speaker 6: bear Grease feed. Yeah yeah, I just you know when

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Speaker 6: I go to when I go after it, this guy's

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Speaker 6: got the product.

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Speaker 1: He's playing it. Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're feeding you.

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Speaker 1: Brent Reeves. Come on, yeah, Michael, you're tell us about

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Speaker 1: your new light. So let me let me go back.

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Speaker 1: Already said it before, but I have been in multiple

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Speaker 1: showdowns with big game hunters that thought they had a

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Speaker 1: good light.

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Speaker 2: Never lost, did you?

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Speaker 3: Never?

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Speaker 2: You won't coon.

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Speaker 1: Hunters win the light game every time? Am I right?

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Speaker 3: Chris?

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Speaker 1: I mean for real, I've been in hunting camps and

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Speaker 1: been like, somebody shine their light and I'd be like,

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Speaker 1: that's a cute light, and and they're like, oh this

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Speaker 1: is this is the best light ever, and and I'll

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Speaker 1: step outside and shine them. And the thing coon hunters

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Speaker 1: don't have the market on much. Let me put it

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Speaker 1: that way. The one thing coon hunters have the market

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Speaker 1: on is bright lights that last a long time. And

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Speaker 1: I use my son's spot light all the time. I

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Speaker 1: take it on back country hunts, I take it off

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Speaker 1: my hard hat. So I have a hard hat. Have

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Speaker 1: had some people ask me about why the hard hat.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to use a hard hat. The idea

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Speaker 1: of a hard hat is that it holds a heavier light,

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Speaker 1: which the bigger coon lights. I mean they're heavier than

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Speaker 1: like a little little, you know, energizer bunny little bitty

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Speaker 1: pocket light you put in your piace. It's a little

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Speaker 1: bigger than that, but they last forever and incredibly bright.

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Speaker 1: How let me ask you this, on the lowest power

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Speaker 1: of a sun spot, like the lowest walking light power,

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Speaker 1: so this light would have multiple stages of brightness and

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Speaker 1: even dishes the light out different like it has a spotlight,

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Speaker 1: but it also has a walking light. If you turn

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Speaker 1: it on just the walk lowest walking light, how long

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Speaker 1: would that light burn on a big charge?

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Speaker 2: Over one hundred hours so you could.

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Speaker 1: Literally leave it on in your bag for a week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, four days, four or five days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's pretty incredible. What about candle power?

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Speaker 1: Do you still use candle power?

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Speaker 2: Is there some other so? Yeah, they do, But it's

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Speaker 2: the metric it's lux is what we go by. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so a lot of people that look at lights, they

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Speaker 2: want the first question they ask you is how many

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Speaker 2: lumens does it have? And that's not really a measurement

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Speaker 2: that's useful for us. Lumens is a measurement that comes

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Speaker 2: from the factory. So it's how much that LED can

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Speaker 2: output with this much current put on it, and it's

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Speaker 2: that's total light. That's light that's lost in the reflector,

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Speaker 2: light that you're never going to see. It's not something

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Speaker 2: that's useful. But that's what the state.

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Speaker 1: Is, not reality limit it is.

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Speaker 2: It is, but not in not in the way that

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Speaker 2: we use it. So but that's the way that the

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Speaker 2: industry in like Walmart and the smaller little stuff that's

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Speaker 2: they advertise lumens because that can be verified. So I

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Speaker 2: have a cre led, it has this much current put

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Speaker 2: to it. To Cree says, you have this many looms. Lux,

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Speaker 2: like you're talking about a Candlepower is how much throw

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Speaker 2: that light has so how far it's gonna shine, And

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Speaker 2: that's what we call brightness.

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Speaker 5: So you can have to LEDs with the same lumins,

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Speaker 5: but if you put a different reflector on there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that you use, so the lux is more of

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Speaker 1: a real world lux.

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Speaker 2: How much light you have throw of the light lumins

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Speaker 2: is actually how much light you have coming out of it.

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Speaker 2: But there's no way to measure that. This is what

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Speaker 2: he's saying is depending on the optics that you use

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Speaker 2: for it, you can have a thousand lucks. These light

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Speaker 2: bulbs are lumins. I'm sorry. These light bulbs have a

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Speaker 2: high lumin value to them, and they just softly light

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Speaker 2: up your light your room, so it doesn't do you

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Speaker 2: any good coon hunt. But you put an optic behind

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Speaker 2: it that can gather all that light and put it

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Speaker 2: in one place for you, and that's what we're calling lux.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Finally, I've been using these lights forever and I

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Speaker 3: have heard him talk about this a thousand times. Finally

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Speaker 3: understand it.

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Speaker 4: It's low throwback on that is I was headed across

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Speaker 4: forty and boom, there's a night like score off the

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Speaker 4: I like squealed tires getting off the road because when

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Speaker 4: I started hunting, night like light was it. They came

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Speaker 4: out with a six volt gel cell and then they

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Speaker 4: I had one of those for a while, and then

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Speaker 4: they put the strobe on it and I don't know

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Speaker 4: that it did anything. It doesn't do any It doesn't

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Speaker 4: do anything, but it was cool.

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Speaker 1: That was designed to make a coon look at your

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Speaker 1: eyes and you clicked it it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so you push the button on top of the

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Speaker 4: wrist at and boom, had start flashing and you think

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Speaker 4: that he's gonna look now. The only thing it did

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Speaker 4: was melcher meltry wrist at down starts smoking on your side.

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Speaker 2: The night light was the first real coon hunting light

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Speaker 2: I ever had. The only thing I had before that.

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Speaker 2: We carried a truck battery in a backpack with this

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Speaker 2: giant spotlight that they used to make it was called

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Speaker 2: a sunspot. Really, that's where the name of that. You

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Speaker 2: have the game ward and took it from me.

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Speaker 3: But that's another star.

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Speaker 4: Store.

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Speaker 1: You bought me a night light. When I was in

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Speaker 1: the ninth grade, we used to have those big belt

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Speaker 1: used to have to carry battery packs to have those

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Speaker 1: big thick belts. I still got it. It was the

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Speaker 1: It was the industry standard back in the day. Now

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Speaker 1: the lights are way better, way brighter, way smaller, way lighter.

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Speaker 2: The only thing in this world that is increased in

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Speaker 2: functionality and quality and decreased in price.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Now there's a cell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. I mean I used to pay four

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Speaker 2: or five six hundred dollars for some of these belt

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Speaker 2: lights and they were literally maybe a fifth is bright

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Speaker 2: is what we do now, and you're paying three hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars for a light now that lasts longer, is brighter.

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Speaker 1: So your light now, this is not like a sales pitch.

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Speaker 1: I you know, there's people and I'm one of those

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Speaker 1: people that if I like something, I'll talk to people

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Speaker 1: on the street about it. I'll be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean like I want you to like and if

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Speaker 1: you don't, if you don't like it, I'm offended. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, god the man. No, coonlights is one

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Speaker 1: of them. And there's a lot of good coonlights, don't

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Speaker 1: get me wrong. I mean there's there's there's plenty of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about coonlights. But Michael's got his. Your

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Speaker 1: light has a lifetime warranty. Yeah, send it to you.

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Speaker 2: Ten dollars for return shipping and that's it. It's the

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Speaker 2: only thing. We don't covers damage, and we cover that

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Speaker 2: most of the time. Yeah, depends on how bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a throwaway.

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Speaker 4: No you ever find yourself sunspots consider one of the

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Speaker 4: top lights in the Yeah, in the country and in

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Speaker 4: my community for sure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you ever find yourself just putting on the helmet

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Speaker 5: to go out to grocery shop or something, just so you.

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Speaker 1: Have a okay you're on. When you're on a competition

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Speaker 1: coon hunt, tell me if this is right or wrong.

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Speaker 3: I know where you're headed.

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Speaker 1: When you're on a competition coon hunt and you stop

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Speaker 1: at a gas station and you got four guys in

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Speaker 1: a cast in a cab of a truck, maybe you

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Speaker 1: know them, maybe you don't. And you go to a

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Speaker 1: gas station, everybody wears their coon light into the gas station.

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Speaker 4: Where you thought I was gonna go, well kind of ok.

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Speaker 4: I've done that multiple times. You leave the house hunting

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Speaker 4: or whatever, and you got to stop the gas station,

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Speaker 4: get a pop, get a can, at you whatever, and

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Speaker 4: you got your hip boots on and your coon light

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Speaker 4: on your vest on and people are looking at you

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Speaker 4: like what is he doing? I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Somehow when you're in a competition hunt, like it's okay.

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Speaker 1: Like if I went to Walmart, I just walk in

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Speaker 1: there with my and my big light on. But what

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Speaker 1: were you where do you think I was going on that?

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Speaker 4: Was it the other gas station store?

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Speaker 5: For sure?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? For sure?

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Speaker 1: Coon Lights. So y'all come out with a new Copperhead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we come out with a new light. We dropped

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Speaker 2: two nights Adults called the Copperhead comparatible to our other lights.

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Speaker 2: It's brighter, smaller, lighter weight than our Viper, which was

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Speaker 2: our topy en light, Smaller than the Viper, lighter weight, wrider,

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Speaker 2: all the same functions, and it's a slick looking light.

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Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. Okay, we're just marching

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Speaker 1: around here. Uh, Chris, Yeah, we're I'm on a mission, man.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about I want to talk about this,

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Speaker 1: the story of the plots.

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Speaker 4: War my shirt for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got the American Plot Association shirt on.

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Speaker 4: It was either this one or not a game Warden

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Speaker 4: T shirt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dad, Chris is a retired game warden.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I talked to one of our friends. They got there.

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Speaker 1: I talked to one of our mutual friends just yesterday, Chris,

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Speaker 1: and uh, well, no, no, no, no, no, no, you told

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Speaker 1: me this story. One of our mutual friends introduced you

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Speaker 1: when you went bear hunting with them in East Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: He would introduce you as this is Chris pal he's

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Speaker 1: a former game warden from Indiana.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: And Chris kind of got embarrassed about it, like saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to say that, And the guy was like,

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Speaker 1: trust me, I don't want these guys to find out

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Speaker 1: later that you are a former game warden. He said,

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Speaker 1: they'll they'll they won't trust you. Is that about the

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Speaker 1: way it happened.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly the way it happened.

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Speaker 4: You know. It's like, since when do we have to

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Speaker 4: walk around and this is this is Clay nukemb he

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Speaker 4: works at meat Eater, This is Gary Nukeum. He was

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Speaker 4: a retired banker. You know, it's like, oh, this is

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Speaker 4: a game warden and that, and we're going to introduce

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Speaker 4: him like that. It's like being a preacher.

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Speaker 3: You know.

438
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: I never introduced my preacher. It's like, hey, this is

439
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 4: so and so he's my preacher. I mean, it's like

440
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 4: sending out the warning don't don't.

441
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: Come, don't come, don't color show.

442
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 4: So yeah, I used to get introduced like that.

443
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was doing it for your as a favorite

444
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: to you though.

445
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: I think, uh, I think he was really good at

446
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 4: pivoting on the moment and and coming up with that.

447
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 4: But I do think that I do think it was

448
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: for his benefit. Yeah, he wasn't bringing a game warden

449
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 4: to the mountain.

450
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: He's like just full disclosure here, yeah, full disclosure, Yeah,

451
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: full disclosure.

452
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

453
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 6: You know some of my favorite Bear Grease stories were

454
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 6: about game wardens.

455
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

456
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 6: I mean they just go down as the top notch stories.

457
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 3: Man.

458
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: I loved it. Yeah.

459
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems to be the consensus of the world. Yeah,

460
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: because some of our best episodes were low Dell and

461
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: Charlie and then The Secret Agent man.

462
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I love that.

463
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Chris tell it. Give us like a high

464
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: level view what's going on in Colorado?

465
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're gonna get serious.

466
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, all right, Well, I'll.

467
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: Tell you what's happening.

468
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 4: And we're seeing science based responsible wildlife management being hijacked

469
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 4: in the state of Colorado through it's called Initiative ninety one,

470
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 4: and it's been introduced. It went through the what's called

471
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 4: the title board hearing, where they've got to make sure

472
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: that the labeling is right. An Initiative ninety one is

473
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 4: going to be a ballot initiative where the public gets

474
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: to vote on this issue of wildlife management and it

475
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 4: pertains directly to mountain lions and bobcats, and they threw

476
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: in links for sensational value. You can't hunt links in

477
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 4: the lower forty eight anyway because they're on the endangered

478
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 4: species list.

479
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: There're links in Colorado.

480
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 4: There are links in Colorado, really, so they just threw

481
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 4: that one on the pile just to just to add

482
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 4: to the sensationalism, even though you still can't hunt them.

483
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,239
Speaker 1: So, yeah, you can't hunt them now.

484
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 4: No, no, you can't hunt them now. So what does

485
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 4: that need to be there?

486
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 2: You know, because it's an animal on the endangered species

487
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: list that when the people are voting, oh you look

488
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: it up, they say, oh yeah, we definitely won't let it.

489
00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 4: It's totally totally sensationalized. But what's happened is some groups

490
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 4: have gotten together in Colorado and put this on the

491
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 4: back or put this forward, have got approval for it

492
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 4: to be moving forward and be introduced to the ballot

493
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 4: next year. So they've still got to go through signature

494
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 4: acquisition and things like that. Right now it's in the

495
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: Supreme Court, and basically that's just making sure that all

496
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 4: the eyes are dotted and all the teaser crossed and

497
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 4: things like that. But the most alarming thing about it

498
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 4: is not because of the lions and the Bobcat issue.

499
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 4: I mean, take those two animals out and put elk

500
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 4: in there, put sheep in there, or put you know,

501
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 4: whatever animal you want, white tailed deer in there. This

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: is just a typical tactic where people with influence are

503
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: trying to hijack the traditional North American model for wildlife

504
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 4: conservation and make it a political issue. So when you

505
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: when you start doing that, there's a lot of dangers

506
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 4: and a lot of trip trip ups for that. You know,

507
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 4: we don't we don't necessarily need somebody who's uninformed, who's

508
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: been been sensationalized to and and had this narrative soul

509
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: to them based on emotion, to vote on this, you know,

510
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: because it's it's it's just alarming. It's an alarming thing.

511
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,239
Speaker 4: I mean, our wildlife is and our story of our

512
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 4: our conservation story is amazing, you know, going back to

513
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 4: the eighteen eighties and the recovery and and the money

514
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: that was spent to and it's all because hunters stepped

515
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 4: up and said we'll do this right. And then the

516
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: first ten of the conservation. North American model is wildlife

517
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 4: is a public trust. So we did that and we said, yeah,

518
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: go to the park and look at elk, go to

519
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: the go to the National Forest and and look at bars,

520
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: do all this other stuff. So we willingly did that.

521
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 4: It's the only it's the only bill that I'm aware

522
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 4: of that was ever passed, the Pittman Robertson bill who's

523
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 4: ever passed where people said.

524
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: Tax us, Yeah, please tax us.

525
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 4: So we've got a big investment in this thing, and

526
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: the anti hunting crowd is trying to flip the narrative

527
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 4: and divert us away from science based and responsible wildlife management,

528
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 4: make it a political weapon and based it.

529
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: On almost who is doing this.

530
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 4: There are a couple of local groups in Colorado that

531
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 4: are that are leading the charge on this. Yeah, that

532
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: it hasn't been revealed yet, but we're pretty confident that

533
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 4: that there are some larger, more well funded groups.

534
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: That they've got a lot of money and are waiting.

535
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very well funded thing for

536
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: for Initiative ninety one. Is that correct that you have to.

537
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 4: Be seen you're talking which side.

538
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: Well not our side?

539
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

540
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're gonna what was the time? Tell

541
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: me the timeline. So when give me a timeline of

542
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: like when are the when are they signing the Well.

543
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: Right now, it's it's been introduced to go to the

544
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 4: Colorado Supreme Court and that's expected to be heard sometime

545
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: in January to make sure all the legalities and you know.

546
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: Make sure the law is it works, and.

547
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 4: Then the cons the people to vote on Yeah, when

548
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: does it go win?

549
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: Does it? Yeah?

550
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: Next November in the twenty twenty four election. So between

551
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: that time, you're going to have a period of time

552
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 4: where you're gonna have to have signatures to make sure

553
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 4: they meet the ballot requirements for the required number of

554
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 4: signatures for it to appearental ballot. There are gonna be lawsuits.

555
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 4: There are gonna be Then there's gonna be a campaign

556
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: time when when both sides of we as hunters are

557
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 4: going to launch a campaign, the anti hunters are going

558
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: to launch a campaign. We're gonna have this Classies Titans

559
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: in the state of Colorado all through next summer and

560
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 4: then leading up to the election. We need to have

561
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 4: our ducks in a row by July, I would say,

562
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 4: to be able to start who.

563
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Is the main guy what's the guy's name that we

564
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 1: were talking about.

565
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, the guy the spearhead and the whole efforts out

566
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 4: there is Dan Gates. And he is the head of

567
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: an organization called Colorado Colorado's for Responsible Wildlife Management, and

568
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: a lot of different entities are coming together to back

569
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: him and and he's been working this state.

570
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: For this was coming. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

571
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Colorado is right for it. It's the demographics.

572
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: There are right big.

573
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: Urban cities with most of the population.

574
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 4: And then the to give you an idea, I saw

575
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 4: a slide on that that was put together in a

576
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: presentation while I was out in Colorado a month or

577
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: so ago. There are five point eight million people in

578
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 4: the state of Colorado. Five point two million of those

579
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 4: live on the Front Range and the Denver Boulder, that metroplex. Yeah,

580
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 4: five point two million. That leaves six hundred thousand people

581
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: living out in the sticks that understand ranching, wildlife management

582
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: and things like that.

583
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's gonna.

584
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 4: Be it's it's it is the Battleground State for Wildlife

585
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: Management twenty twenty four.

586
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be hearing more stuff from us and some

587
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: specific calls to action at different times, but Yeah, we're

588
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna do our best at bear Grease and meat

589
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: Eater to get the word out and because I mean,

590
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: people that are listening to this podcast are gonna know

591
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 1: why we're against and you know, closing down the season,

592
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: why we're for predator management.

593
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: I mean it, I wouldn't even have to go, I

594
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: wouldn't even try to try to pigeonhole. It is a

595
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 4: predator management. This is an outright attack on science based

596
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: wildlife management.

597
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not just the predator control. So from what

598
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: I understand, and I don't big game hunt with hounds,

599
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: but from what I understand that the cat hunters are

600
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: basically responsible for saving mountain lions.

601
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 4: That's a great point because if you were not for

602
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: the houndsmen that were out there catching mountain lions, organizations

603
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: like Colorado's Parks and Wildlife would not be able to

604
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: collect the data. There's so much that goes into a

605
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 4: mountain lion study. You know, you catch it, you dart it,

606
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: you collar it. You can collect all that data. You

607
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: can find out their home ranges, you can find their

608
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 4: kills on ungulant species. You take the bones from those

609
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 4: ungulant species back into the lab. You can measure the fat,

610
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 4: you can test your DNA, you can The predator management

611
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 4: studies are an integral part and valuable to the management

612
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 4: of all wildlife species.

613
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just the general idea too, that a hunted

614
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: animal has cultural value, and where an animal has cultural value,

615
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: it will ultimately be protected by the people that want

616
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: to hunt always. And so you know, there's nobody in

617
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: Colorado that wants more mountain lions than mountain lion hunters.

618
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: You got that right, I mean, but we also know

619
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: that predator numbers. What's happening continental wide is that predator

620
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: numbers are on the rise. I mean wolves, mountain lions, coyotes, coons, possums,

621
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: the meso, predators, black bears, like everything is is those

622
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: are the things that seem to be doing really well

623
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: right now. And so hunting with hounds is a management tool,

624
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: high regulated, It is not out of control. Mountain lions

625
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: are doing incredibly well in Colorado. So this is a

626
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: political thing of someone that doesn't like the idea of

627
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: people going out and hunting mountain lions. This is something

628
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: that's been going on since for hundreds of years. I mean,

629
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: people hunting with dogs been going on for thousands and

630
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years, but you know, you get

631
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: the point. So, man, everybody's always heard me talk about

632
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: garding the gate, it's been a while since I've actually

633
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: talked about it. So I'll quickly review the doctrine. I believe,

634
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of people believe, that the whole model

635
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: of North American wildlife are our management system. The weak link,

636
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: the place where the anti hunting community really has a

637
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: strong foothold, is inside of the predator arena, specifically bears

638
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: and mountain lions. It's harder for them to sell to

639
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: the general public that hunting a deer, or hunting a world,

640
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: or hunting that whatever is bad. It's pretty It's a

641
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: pretty easy sell for them to say, Hey, these guys

642
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: are out there killing bears and mountain lions. What are

643
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: they even doing with them? It's a trophy hunt. They

644
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: don't eat them. All this stuff that's not true, correct,

645
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: And I believe that that that weakest link in this

646
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: whole system is the place that we need to guard

647
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: the most. They're kind of was, like I would say,

648
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: ten years ago, by my interpretation of the hunting community,

649
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: there was kind of this idea that those guys are

650
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: kind of on the fringe, and those guys being the

651
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: predator hunters and specifically the hound hunters that are bear

652
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: hunting with hounds, and those guys are kind of on

653
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: the fringe. That's kind of going away. We're not gonna

654
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: associate with that. Like people weren't wanting to step up

655
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: and talk. And that's not entirely true. That's a generalization, hyperbolic,

656
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: as they say, exaggeration to make a point, But that

657
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,959
Speaker 1: was I felt like that happening. And then we were like, hey,

658
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: the weakest link is the most important thing, because once

659
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: they get that, we know this is not this is

660
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: not exaggerated hype political talk like incremental incrementalization like the

661
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: anti hunting community and whether it's this big, really designed thing.

662
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they're kind of like, you know, the it's

663
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: like they got a one hundred year plan to stamp

664
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: this thing out. Yeah, they even said it.

665
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: You can't compromise, it can't be you can't give up,

666
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: and you can't give up one inch. Yeah, because they

667
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: will not satisfy them. Yeah, you can't say okay, okay, okay, yeah,

668
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: I'll just we'll just do this and that'll be the end.

669
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 3: Of it. It won't be the end of it.

670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 4: There is nothing that they do that is not with intent.

671
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 4: Everything they do is purpose driven. It's the reason they

672
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 4: came to Colorado is because of the population dynamic there

673
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 4: and Andy.

674
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: The reason they could win.

675
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 4: The reason they come after Mountain Lions is because it

676
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 4: mainly affects houndsmen, and so houndsmen historically have been very

677
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: loosely organized, very even like you alluded to, being looked

678
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 4: at on the fringe. I mean, you can't even get

679
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: you can't even get bear hunters or anybody to come

680
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 4: together to say that, all of them to say that,

681
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 4: hey man, you guys are hunting with hounds, go for it.

682
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 4: You know, we even get snipe from inside the hunting community.

683
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: So so, but I think that's changing.

684
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I do too believe that.

685
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: I think we're gaining a lot of ground there. So

686
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: it was just go back to the art of you know,

687
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 4: the art of war with sun sou. These people know

688
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: what they're doing and they're coming after the weakest link.

689
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 4: And what we need from the hunting community as a

690
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 4: whole is like Brent said that we stand together other

691
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 4: and we say no. It's like, you know, it's like

692
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: a family. It's like a family reunion. You don't get

693
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 4: along with everybody there. Yeah, but if somebody comes up

694
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 4: and punches your cousin in the face that you don't like,

695
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: you're gonna you're you're throwing in you know. Yeah, and

696
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 4: that's what we need well.

697
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: And that's that's what I think we've seen in the

698
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: last seven eight years is more of the general hunting

699
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: community coming around the hound and predator community and saying, hey,

700
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: this is a big part. This is a part of

701
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: the family, and we're concerned because what we've always said

702
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: is that if you're a deer hunter in Missouri, if

703
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: you're a turkey hunter, if you're you know, this matters

704
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: to you. Like if if the whole of North American hunting,

705
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: and we don't realize that we're in the heyday of

706
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: so many parts of North American hunting. I mean, we

707
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: we we have this incredible thing and the trend and

708
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: you see it in other places in the world, is

709
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: that that thing that freedom slips away and goes away.

710
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: And so you know, we're saying, hey, we're a generation

711
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: that's that is not going to give anything.

712
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: Now.

713
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: We're not trying to be hard nos or jerks about it.

714
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're just saying, hey, this is just

715
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: this is just who we are as Americans. There is

716
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: a place inside of our society where the hunters reside.

717
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: You don't have to be a hunter. We love wildlife.

718
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: If you you in general people in America love wildlife

719
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: and wild places. Well, guess who does too, the hunters.

720
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: We're the ones who are funding wildlife habitat conservation across

721
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: the country. We're all on the same team. You want hunters.

722
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: Hunters provide an incredible, incredible service to society. We need

723
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: mountain lion hunters, we need bear hunters. And so that's

724
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: why this is important, because the idea would be like, well,

725
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't hunt mountain lions in Colorado. I probably never will.

726
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: I don't care. That's that's a short, short sighted thing,

727
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: you know. So it's longer term, and I mean that's

728
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: really that's really all there is to say about it.

729
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 4: We have, we have hunted, we have we have This

730
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 4: generation of hunters has inherited one hundred and fifty years

731
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 4: of conservation work, right, I mean you think about that.

732
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 4: We are the benefactors of Teddy Roosevelt, and yeah, uh

733
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: you know, you know, all these guys that built this

734
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 4: and now we're enjoying it all. And it's like, I'm

735
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 4: a deer hunter and I got my pile. I'm an

736
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 4: elk hunter and I got my pile. I'm a houndsman

737
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 4: and I got my pile. Man, We're not going to

738
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 4: survive like that. We gotta we gotta find ways to

739
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 4: bridge those gaps. None of us can stand alone.

740
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, that this is all really great and

741
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: and uh it's just an invitation to for the whole

742
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: hunting community to rally around this thing.

743
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 4: I so, can I tell people where to find more

744
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: informational updates? Ye, so if you go to Save the

745
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 4: Hunt Colorado dot org. Okay, then you can get updates

746
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 4: on what's going on with the initiative ninety one.

747
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: Uh.

748
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: You can also go to our website at hounsmanexp dot com.

749
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: You know, scroll we're dropping a lot of content on

750
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: this sort of stuff, and you know, just reach out

751
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 4: to me if you if you're concerned about it and

752
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 4: you're looking, say, man, this is this is a good fight.

753
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: I want to get in it. Just contact me through

754
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: a website at Hounsman XP dot com.

755
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of groups that are going to

756
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 1: be doing a lot. Absolutely, I'm a big fan of

757
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: howl dot org. The guys at how they're working, I

758
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: think they're doing doing a good job of getting stuff out.

759
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: Origin Blood is another.

760
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: One all these groups. I mean, uh, Sportsman's Alliance big time.

761
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm glad you brought them up. Yeah, of course.

762
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 4: But c r w M is going to be the

763
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 4: place that we need to get this money too. So

764
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: that's where I would tell you.

765
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 2: To go first, go to the bigger army.

766
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 6: I mean, if you just say this is war, you

767
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 6: know it'ses versus China.

768
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: Who who's who's the probable win or Well, I think.

769
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: If you're talking funding, then I believe that that the

770
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 4: anti hunting crowd is got more dedicated funds to fight

771
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 4: this today.

772
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: However, if you.

773
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 4: Look at the amount of money that hunting produces, then

774
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 4: that's one of the biggest things that that you're your

775
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 4: person that's a non hunter that's got to make a

776
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: decision in Colorado, who's going to fund this wildlife next year?

777
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 4: If we outlawed this year, who's going to fund it

778
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 4: next year? It's not gonna be the humane side of

779
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 4: the United States or Center for Biological Diversity or Friends

780
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 4: of Mounta Lions or whoever is behind this. You know,

781
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: you're you're going to strip the funding mechanism to the

782
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 4: tune of about three point five billion dollars a day.

783
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 6: You know, if you com communicate the way you have communicated,

784
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 6: I mean, you win. But you've got a gullible populace

785
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 6: out there that could care less about it, and they

786
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 6: just read it and go it sounds like a good idea.

787
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: I would be one of them.

788
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: Well I look at that five minutes. I'd go, yeah, man,

789
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: get rid of it.

790
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 4: Well that's that's one one of their So you got

791
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 4: to be I mean, they.

792
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: There their line.

793
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 4: They tried to push this thing through a sensational narrative,

794
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 4: like talking about trophy hunting. Well, Clay, you do an

795
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 4: outstanding job of defending trophy hunting. I mean I've watched

796
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 4: you do it on Joe Rogan. I mean you turned

797
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 4: it around on On Rogan and explain it to me.

798
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 4: But that's part of it, and and that language has

799
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 4: been taken off of it. But they were they were

800
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: trying to redefine what hunting actually is. And that's the

801
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 4: most that's the most important thing that affects all hunters.

802
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: Well, there's gonna be a whole lot more coming about it.

803
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: But that's the business. This is the boardroom. That was

804
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: the business we need to take care of. And uh,

805
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: thanks for thanks for giving us the details crawl. Yeah,

806
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: now that we're gonna have a lot more about that

807
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. The podcasts Pure Americana. Let me start off.

808
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: I said, Chris would understand this. This is a pretty

809
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: risky podcast. Dad kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

810
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: to to to oh yeah, I understand that to not

811
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: challenge I didn't challenge anything, but to even put out

812
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: there that there was some skepticism around the origin story.

813
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: But I did it because I actually felt like it

814
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: would be fair to the origin story to do that.

815
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 4: Actually, this is.

816
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 6: So, this is so beneficial to the plot hound Yeah,

817
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 6: origins and everything. I mean, they just took a little

818
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 6: area like this and exploded it all through Bear grease.

819
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: People are going to buy books, people are going to

820
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: talk about this.

821
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 6: You know you Clay's been foreshadowing what a great podcast

822
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 6: he's got coming up, and I turned it on.

823
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: I thought dead gum plot hems, You thought I.

824
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 6: Don't care about plot app but I mean it was

825
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 6: an awesome deal and and I tell you it, it

826
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 6: was really good and I think everybody will really enjoy it.

827
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: It was a big deal, just like you said. But

828
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: at first glance, a plot town man, I don't need

829
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: no thinking plot down. But it's a it's a now

830
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: you want one as a It's a human story, it's

831
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: a family story, it's a history story. I don't think

832
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: you offended anybody. Well, what I'm saying is in the

833
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: plot community, like people are so opinionated and so just

834
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: it's it's it's they get attached to a narrative and

835
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 1: they sometimes wouldn't want to hear anything else. But uh yeah, Brent,

836
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: if should I I die mysterious strange death, will you

837
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: lead an expedition into.

838
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,479
Speaker 3: The team picked out? I can't tell you that.

839
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: What Chris, what did you think?

840
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 4: What?

841
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:13,479
Speaker 3: What?

842
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: What was like the most? This is all stuff you'd

843
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: be very familiar you you hunt plots.

844
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, plot historian. Though, I thought the your

845
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 4: selection of having Bob Plott, who is a descendant of

846
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: the Plot family, who's heard these stories his whole life,

847
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 4: and he's dove into, you know, finding out the stories.

848
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 4: His books for his books.

849
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: That there's a book I'm holding that striking state. It

850
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: really is a fascinating book.

851
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: Bob.

852
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: Bob's a real pro when it comes to history. And

853
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: the main the coolest thing about this book is all

854
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 1: the photos. Yeah, look at that, Brent.

855
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 4: It's uh, it needs to be in every Hounceman, every

856
00:45:58,320 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 4: hunter's collection, really, I mean it's just.

857
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: Look at some of those pictures.

858
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: And then John Jackson. John Jackson has been writing plot

859
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 4: history for for decades, you know, and very well spoken.

860
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 4: I really like the way you described me, a true

861
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: Southern Mountain gentleman. Yeah, and that's that describes John to

862
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 4: a t.

863
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. Uh, that was the first time I'd

864
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: met John a new John had communicated with him some

865
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: with Bearhunting Magazine, he had written some stuff for us.

866
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: But he is like a yeah, a classic Highland Southern

867
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: gentle way I described him, just very proper, very articulate,

868
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: but deeply passionate. Like h We went down and I

869
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: recorded a bunch of this stuff, but I just wasn't

870
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: able to really use it in the podcast. But his

871
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: the basement in his house is like a museum with

872
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: plot plot stuff and just Appalachian rural stuff and Civil

873
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: War stuff and guns and famous famous hunters over there,

874
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: guys that had plots. He had. He was instrumental and

875
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: finding some of some kind of relics of the plot community. Anyway,

876
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: just such a neat guy, but knew so much. But

877
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: he's not a believer. And that's what's kind of right.

878
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 4: Was disappointed. What's that? I was disappointed?

879
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: You were disappointed, like John, like we said, I hate

880
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: to disappoint you.

881
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was disappointed.

882
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: He was melancholy when he talked about it too.

883
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the deal. I read Bob Plot's book and

884
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: knew Bob Plot I'd heard the story from. Actually, Steve

885
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: Hurd is the one who introduced me to the the

886
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: original story. Steve heard is a breeder of a strain

887
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: of plots called Bluff Creek Plots. It's the kind of

888
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: dogs I've hunted. And Steve was the first one that

889
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: ever introduced me to plots, really, and he told me

890
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: the story just just like on a phone call.

891
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 4: He's like years ago, stepping off the Mayflower.

892
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: About the two brothers. One of them guys that bring

893
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: five dogs. Two of them or or three of them

894
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: are brindle. One of them's two of them are yell

895
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I was like, wow, that's incredible. When

896
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: I go to John Jackson, who is a plot historian,

897
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: I go to his house and I expect him to

898
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: just tell me that story, and he immediately he did

899
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: such a good job. He was like Johannis plot. He

900
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: just like fed me in. Then he goes, cy, I

901
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: hate to disappoint you, and I don't think that happened that.

902
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: I was like crust. Literally, I was like, oh gosh,

903
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: I mean for real, I didn't know what to do

904
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 1: with the I was like, well, what am I? What

905
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: am I supposed to do with this interview? Now that

906
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: this whole story that I thought was true maybe isn't true.

907
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 5: Well, I think there's one big point here that I

908
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 5: found fascinating about the whole podcast, and that is I'm

909
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 5: less interested in what was true in terms of a

910
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 5: historical sense and more interested in the fact that there

911
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 5: was one family that cared enough about this thing to

912
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 5: hand down this tradition from one generation to the next.

913
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 5: Like the veracity of the story down to the detail

914
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 5: is less interesting to me than to zoom out and

915
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 5: go like, here's this family that cared enough about this

916
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 5: thing that whether or not the origin story of a

917
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 5: guy stepping off a boat with five dogs is true,

918
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 5: they are the genesis of this breed. And it is

919
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 5: because it's almost more compelling that it's it's not this

920
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 5: happenstance thing of a guy or maybe it is, you know,

921
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 5: but it's not this happenstance thing of a guy stepping

922
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 5: off with five dogs and here we go. It's this

923
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 5: very careful overtime, each father to son, uncle to nephew, whatever,

924
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 5: telling this story, caring about these dogs, bringing this forward.

925
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 5: That's as compelling, if not more compelling, to me.

926
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: And that's what John Jackson said. He was like, he

927
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: basically said, the story there, you know, either way, even

928
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: the story if that didn't happen, he said, is as

929
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: compelling as as as the original narrative. Yeah, but it

930
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: and I mean we're kind of cutting right to the

931
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: chase here, But where did if that story was just

932
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: completely fabricated, it happened very quickly because Bob Plot his

933
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: third great grandfather would have been Johannas or George Plot

934
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: third great grandfather, so not his dad, but his you know,

935
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: like you start going back and it's like not very

936
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: far and somebody in that line had a really created

937
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: a really wild story and cemented it into the plot community.

938
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: I mean there was most plot people wouldn't even question

939
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: that story, am I Right?

940
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: Right?

941
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 5: In the same way that our last conversation was a

942
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 5: conversation about like to some degree, like what are humans

943
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 5: like when we're having these conversations about conservation and wildlife management?

944
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 5: We want to remove humans from that system, right, But

945
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 5: that's a luxury that's only happened in the last one

946
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty to two hundred years. We're a part

947
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 5: of the system. Us growing up in this world and

948
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 5: learning to hunt, learning to interact with animals. We're an

949
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 5: integral part of the system. We're not a different system

950
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 5: that's removed as are you serious? Is talking the evolution

951
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 5: in the progress of man is integral with hunting, the

952
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 5: species we hunt. We're a part of that same system.

953
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 5: We're not a different system.

954
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: Right.

955
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, And that's what the anti hunters tried

956
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 4: to tell us, is that we're not part of that system.

957
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 5: That's only a narrative that's developed in the last one

958
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty two hundred years. Because we've had the

959
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 5: luxury to be removed from it.

960
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 3: And in the same.

961
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 5: Way, what's this got to do with plot bringing the

962
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 5: only the only thing that's standing the way from me

963
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 5: tying this together is you. In the same way, we

964
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 5: look at oral narratives, oral histories and we look down

965
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 5: on them. We we we were like, oh, well that's

966
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 5: not reliable because it was oral, and it's like, that

967
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 5: is the story of humanity. The only way we gave

968
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 5: our histories for the last thousand, the millennia preceding us

969
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 5: is an oral history, the only reason we have anything

970
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 5: at all. And so I think it is a very

971
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 5: modern viewpoint to look at an oral tradition and go, well,

972
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 5: that's not reliable.

973
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, show me. It really was the head to head conflict,

974
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: and it was how much weight does an oral story

975
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: carry versus what was on a piece of paper on

976
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: a cargo manifest.

977
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 3: Chris can tell you from a law enforcement perspective, before

978
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: all these crazy CSI shows came on TV, how good

979
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 3: was an eyewitness then who just saw something? Oh yeah,

980
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 3: pretty reliable.

981
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 4: Now it's then you had dash cams, and then you

982
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 4: had to have dash cam.

983
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 3: Then you had to have fingerprints, DNA and all that

984
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:48,280
Speaker 3: and a man's word.

985
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. So maybe back in the thirties,

986
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: nobody would have even been asking these questions.

987
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 4: Even in the early nineties before DNA and all this

988
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 4: other stuff you watch. Getting back to what Brent said,

989
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 4: when a police officer took stand and he testified to something,

990
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 4: he had credibility in the courtroom, and the defense attorney's

991
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 4: job was to discredit this law enforcement officer. And so

992
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 4: that's why, and I know Brent's heard this, they'll they'll

993
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 4: sit there and they'll say, instead of staying officer Reeves,

994
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 4: you'll say, mister Reeves. Yeah, they'll try to discredit him.

995
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 4: And I don't know what that has to do with

996
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 4: what we're talking about, but.

997
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we see what you're saying, Brent. Is that, like,

998
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: what more do we need? I mean again, this idea

999
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: of a head to head between the actual data in

1000
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: facts that we have, which are important we need, and

1001
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: then an oral story, because what's compelling is that this

1002
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: plot family very quick. What we do know one hundred

1003
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 1: percent is that George Plot had a bunch of dogs

1004
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: that were unique to his to this part of the world,

1005
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: and he was he just came straight from Jerry.

1006
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,439
Speaker 2: What do you think, Michael, where they is there any

1007
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: documentation of a brindle hound in Germany?

1008
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1009
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: There is there. There's a Hanna very Okay, that's a

1010
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: good point. There's a there is a breed of dog

1011
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: called Hannoverian Hounds, which and there is some brindle and

1012
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: docs AND's too. I'm told I.

1013
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: Got a few questions. How do you spell johannas like Johannas? Okay?

1014
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: So that now I'm gonna get onto Michael. What does

1015
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: this have to do what that?

1016
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 2: What did you say when you what anglicized sized? All right?

1017
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: That would be anglicized to John, not George.

1018
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: Well we're not arguing that you have to take that

1019
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: up with the plots?

1020
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: Well, I know, and I'm not going to tell anybody

1021
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 2: their family story because I don't really have a clue.

1022
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 2: I'm just this is just my mind. If someone asked

1023
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 2: a question, this is where I'm going to go to.

1024
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 2: It was signed g Plot g Plot, not j Plot right,

1025
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 2: all right, So Johanna's probably wasn't the name on the boat.

1026
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: Right, right?

1027
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: And I mean that's what that's what John Jackson says.

1028
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was probably George. How does a boy that's

1029
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 2: by himself, that his brother just died land in a

1030
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: country where he has no money and no possessions and

1031
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 2: take care of five dogs and keep them alive.

1032
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 3: All well.

1033
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 1: But see, we don't know, we don't have any.

1034
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 2: Any That's what I'm saying. I don't know if there's

1035
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 2: more to the story I'm not hearing, or how where

1036
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 2: this goes in my opinion. Let me let me ask

1037
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: you this too.

1038
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: They might kill you, you know that don't live They Gary?

1039
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: Where where's your where's the the nukelems from England? England? Okay?

1040
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: Negative?

1041
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland?

1042
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 2: Okay? Do you think they come from somewhere other than Scotland?

1043
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 2: What I mean is before they got to Scotland, were

1044
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: they somewhere else?

1045
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1046
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: Okay, mm hm, you can't make these dogs out here,

1047
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 2: saying from what I know from dog breeding. Out of

1048
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 2: five dogs, okay, So there is so much in the

1049
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: any hound, not just plot. You're calling them Americana, the

1050
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: same things with walker dogs, blue ticks, anything else. They

1051
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: got their body shape, their overall makeup from English hounds,

1052
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: long years European. Everything else was American. There's no tolls.

1053
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 2: How much of that.

1054
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 4: Well, saying that's different about a plot than any other

1055
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 4: breed of the hound, says they are different, they're a

1056
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 4: different style of dog style.

1057
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 2: But if you just look at them, they're a hound.

1058
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 4: No, that's not true. Their ears are shorter, they're more

1059
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 4: of a flagtail and a traditional I do not believe,

1060
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 4: because the Appalachian people are way too pragmatic to not

1061
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 4: breed the five they're Yeah, if old Ship was a

1062
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,240
Speaker 4: good bear dog, this dog that I'm calling a plots

1063
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 4: getting bread bread.

1064
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 2: Dorschure, which makes some Americana, But that was my point.

1065
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 2: The same thing happened in blue ticks, English walkers. They

1066
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: were bred to curs. They were bread. The best squirrel

1067
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: dog I've ever seen in my life was half labbador

1068
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: and half chow. No kind of hound whatsoever, absolute tree

1069
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 2: and machine.

1070
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: And you're saying that could have been.

1071
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm saying that they they There may be a little

1072
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: bit of German something in those dogs. But these hounds

1073
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 2: came what was mixed into them, come from Native Americans.

1074
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: They come from the Appalachian people that were already here. Yeah,

1075
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: And I don't see a difference in the plot story

1076
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: and walkers or black and tans.

1077
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: Well, but okay, that but that's I could shoot some

1078
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: holes in that boat.

1079
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 2: Uh No, But walkers, walkers.

1080
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: And that photo right there, just like the walkers in

1081
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: your kennel. That's because they chose English.

1082
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 2: That's because they chose a color to breed to, because

1083
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 2: walker dogs started out as English dogs. Okay, they were

1084
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: the same dogs as blue ticks, the same dogs as

1085
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: red ticks, and they chose that color pattern and bread

1086
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 2: for that coin.

1087
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, but you're not making your

1088
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: point very clear. What's your what's your? What's your? Just

1089
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: give me one sentence. You're saying that they came from

1090
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: the dogs that were all.

1091
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: Of those hounds, hounds of Americana, every one of them. They

1092
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: all have the same story. The difference in them is

1093
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: that the plot hounds has one particular family that they

1094
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: go back to. The rest of them are overall, but

1095
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: the story of them is all the exact same.

1096
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this, why Why are why

1097
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: does the plot I see what you're saying about the

1098
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: shape of a hound. I mean, I could give you

1099
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: that they're shaped about like a hound, but all blue

1100
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: ticks and even I mean the brindle. The brindle is

1101
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: different than any other English hound. Where'd that?

1102
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 3: Yes?

1103
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I don't know. I got a French bulldog

1104
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 2: that that's brindle. I don't know right well, that probably

1105
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: come from the mixing of all these other dogs into

1106
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: that that were not hounds but had the traits that

1107
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: they were looking for. Or I told you had a

1108
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 2: lab and a chowd that would tree, so they would

1109
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: have they were pragmatic, they would have took anything that

1110
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 2: would improved their dogs and put that in.

1111
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 1: So there's a case. And then I said it when

1112
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: I talked about and I'm not sure I used the

1113
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: correct term by saying that brindle was a recessive gene

1114
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: inside of all dogs. But I mean there are brindle

1115
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: boxers there. Brindle feist. My little feist out here is brindle.

1116
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: Brindle plots, brindle pitbulls like brendle is something. And that

1117
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: was my buddy, who's a big time plot man, is

1118
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: the one who brought that up to me. He was like, Clay,

1119
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: if you just mix a bunch of dogs together, it's

1120
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: not long for you have a bunch of brindle. What

1121
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: say you to this, Chris, I.

1122
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 4: Don't think I think you can I think you can

1123
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 4: mix a lot of blue ticks together and you're never

1124
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 4: going to get brindle. Okay, So I think there is

1125
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 4: there was a brindle. Yeah, it was a concentration from

1126
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 4: the Plot family. I'm more of I latch on because

1127
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 4: I am a romantic and historian and I like the

1128
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 4: story of Johanna's Plot and that story.

1129
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 3: I think he probably.

1130
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 4: Came here with the intent of being a games keeper,

1131
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 4: you know, following his father's trade back in Germany. He

1132
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 4: was probably an indentured servant at the time, so he

1133
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 4: already had a place to go. He didn't need money.

1134
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 4: Somebody picked him up off that boat and brought him

1135
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 4: down there, and he had some dogs with him, and

1136
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 4: after he worked off his indentured servitude, he was also

1137
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 4: a man of means, you know, from getting money the

1138
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 4: Old World country, which the Plots were influential type people,

1139
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 4: you know, and they got it from somewhere. They were

1140
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 4: business people, they were horse people, and and I think

1141
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 4: they had the influence and the means to be able

1142
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 4: to to to and I'm not saying at all they

1143
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 4: kept all the genetics within those five dogs.

1144
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: I'm with.

1145
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm with I don't think anybody's saying that, but that's

1146
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: like the exaggerated fairy tale version.

1147
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1148
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 4: The reason that it's an Americana story is because of

1149
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 4: the deep, rich history. It's the first it's a North

1150
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 4: Carolina state dog. It's it's uh, you know, there's mountains

1151
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 4: named after the plot family. It just fits Americana. Yeah,

1152
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 4: but you look, you look at the Walker dog, and

1153
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 4: you can you can talk about George Washington, you know.

1154
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 4: So there's some some of they're not the same dogs.

1155
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 4: They're not the same dog, but they are the dogs

1156
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 4: where our tream Walkers came from. When you trace it backwards.

1157
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: Brant, what, what about the whole story was most important

1158
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: to you?

1159
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 3: Who came from the English? Fox?

1160
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 5: Hu?

1161
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was a black tank.

1162
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: I don't have that conversation, Brence. What was the most

1163
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: saying that what stood out to you most? And you

1164
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have known that story much about it?

1165
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 3: No, very little love it had I ever heard. But

1166
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 3: also the longer I listened to it, I could care

1167
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 3: less which story was true. What fascinated me was the family,

1168
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 3: and that's what is so it's so rich in it,

1169
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 3: and what's so American to me is they can trace

1170
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 3: it back to that family so far, and everyone was

1171
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 3: all in on these dogs, regardless of where they came from.

1172
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 3: Once they got it started, they stayed with it. And

1173
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 3: it was father and son and grandson and grandson and

1174
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 3: grandson and nephew and uncle and everybody. And they're still

1175
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 3: there's still folks over there right now spelling their last

1176
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 3: name P L O T T. And they've got those

1177
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 3: dogs in the front yard. And to me, that is

1178
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 3: the absolute coolest thing. This will be a heck of

1179
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: a movie. This would beat Old Yeller to death.

1180
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn an awesome story. My favorite part of

1181
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: the whole thing good was when you were right with

1182
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 2: Bob in the beginning and he was saying, you know,

1183
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 2: they were here and this was his house. That was awesome.

1184
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: The story of them bringing those dogs in it, following

1185
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 2: them through history and the pride that they would have

1186
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 2: had is just awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had seven

1187
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 2: generations of the same females starting seven generations ago, and

1188
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: they were I mean, they were it for me and

1189
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: they would feel the exact same way. But could you

1190
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: imagine not seven generations ago, but when did they bring

1191
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: the dogs over seventeen? If you breed a female what

1192
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: most of the time around two or three years old,

1193
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,919
Speaker 2: you're looking at a one hundred generations of dogs. Yeah,

1194
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 2: so they have one hundred generations of those dogs.

1195
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: That's awesome, you know, to me the most, like if

1196
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: you're talking about how the plot story is different and

1197
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: out that we're trying to say, it's better than I've

1198
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: had many people already say you should do one of

1199
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: these on the Walker breed, and I'm sure we could.

1200
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not as interesting though, well.

1201
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: But that's what I think to me being in adult

1202
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: and I got into plots roughly nine years ago, that's

1203
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: kind of when I was introduced, so I was an

1204
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: adult and I just it's like my eyes popped open

1205
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: when I went and saw Roy Clark and Tracy and

1206
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: Ben Jones and Curtis Walker and who are some of

1207
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: the I mean Mark Defray up in Maine and Mark

1208
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: Dan Wagner and uh Ira Jones, Oh, can't forget Ira,

1209
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: Ricky Reinhart, all the guys that I know over there,

1210
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: and a bunch of people are going to get upset

1211
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: if I don't start naming their names. Chris, who am

1212
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: I missing that I know? There's these incredible plot. People

1213
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: that just started deep in it. I mean they just

1214
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: bleed plot. And it's such a regional phenomena. That's to me,

1215
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: what's the coolest part of it. The whole thing is

1216
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: that it happened in a very small geographic area and

1217
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: was isolated geographically for basically one hundred and fifty years,

1218
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: and then it.

1219
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 5: Just I mean that was that was put through the

1220
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 5: lens of this is a geographic region that has been

1221
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 5: sort of a national joke, like those people look at

1222
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 5: they've got nothing, and to be like this thing that

1223
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 5: I can take pride in that comes from here, that

1224
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 5: is my thing and is now nationally recognized as the

1225
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 5: best at what it does. I think that that sort

1226
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 5: of incongruency or seeming incongruency.

1227
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: You're foreshadowing into the next episode. She hadn't even heard it,

1228
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: I know for real. We talk about how that that

1229
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: these people didn't have much, but this is something they had. Yeah,

1230
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: they were valuable and that's why it became so valuable.

1231
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 4: They were valuable enough to be to be hauled out

1232
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 4: to places like Oregon when the timber trade took off

1233
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 4: an Oregon. These apple Chians who have been cutting chestnuts

1234
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 4: and all this other stuff for generations. It's like, yeah,

1235
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 4: we can cut down big trees. When they went, they

1236
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 4: took their dogs. Yeah, you know that, And that's how

1237
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 4: the brindle dogs end up in the North.

1238
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: Today the plot is all over. I mean, you go

1239
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: to Wisconsin and Michigan, they're big hubs.

1240
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 4: James lived in Illinois.

1241
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: He was a big coon hunter on big big game bread.

1242
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 4: Some of the best big game dogs you got Salmon

1243
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: River dogs that Doc smith Out had had out in Salmon, Idaho.

1244
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1245
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what Chris give me kind of like a tour

1246
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: of the plot plot geographically, can I mean, we're not

1247
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: gonna hit everybody, So if you're offended by this, and

1248
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but like my buddy, my dear dear friend

1249
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: of of our family, the Clarks and East Tennessee Laurel

1250
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: Mountain plots, who is his name? Some of them there's

1251
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: no way we can name them all.

1252
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 4: Well, so you know, Everett Ever ended up taking you know,

1253
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 4: dogs and getting them in Illinois, and those were the

1254
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 4: wims Bread dogs. And then you had plots, you have

1255
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 4: Weams bread and then those turned into swampland dogs and

1256
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 4: Mike Colley's and then you got well swampland was Leroy

1257
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 4: Hogg in it. Indian Mike Coley ends up with the

1258
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 4: buy you caging plots that he's been breeding on for years.

1259
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 4: You've got, uh, the Houston Valley plots in eastern Tennessee.

1260
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 4: You've got the Salmon River plots that that were out

1261
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 4: in the Salmon River country.

1262
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 3: Uh.

1263
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 4: You get the Bluff Creek plots in Oklahoma or Kansas.

1264
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 4: You know, so it's it's it was one of.

1265
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: Those deal Pocahontas and poc.

1266
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:42,439
Speaker 4: You've got the the Redwood plots that Jeff Coons kind

1267
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 4: of inherited from his uncle and and developed into highly

1268
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 4: skilled dogs. You got the Serge bread plots from Ohio Brandenburg.

1269
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 4: That was an older I.

1270
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 1: Mean good enough. I mean just the point is is

1271
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: that white inside of the plot world, there's these little

1272
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: narrow channels and people just go nuts over them. I mean,

1273
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: people are looking for certain dogs, they are bred in

1274
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: certain ways, and just to the average person to be

1275
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: like it's just a plot, but there's there's these real

1276
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: specific things connected to real specific people, and it's it's

1277
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: like it's just kind of neat.

1278
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 2: Do these dogs start to get different looks.

1279
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can.

1280
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 4: If a real student of the plot breed, well we'll

1281
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 4: be able to tell. You know, branden Burger plots were

1282
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 4: a little bigger and a little houndier looking than what

1283
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 4: some other and a real good person better than I am,

1284
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 4: can walk through plot days and say, well, that's a

1285
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 4: you know, that's a Pocahontas, and that's a brand you

1286
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 4: know this.

1287
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: Is they do have a Look.

1288
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love hounds, all of them. And I've never

1289
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: really paid much attention plots because there's not very many

1290
01:08:55,080 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: around here, but undeniably they have the best backstory of

1291
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 2: any of them.

1292
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1293
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's none of the rest of these hounds. So

1294
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: you know, you have Blue Ticks with the Vaughans and

1295
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 2: and those guys, and you have the Walker Dogs with

1296
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: the Gettings up there, and there's there's several different but

1297
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 2: none of them have the type of story that a

1298
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 2: plot hound has.

1299
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's what That's why I like them. Now

1300
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 1: what stood out to you just taking the whole story,

1301
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: like what surprised you? What? What what stood out? Well,

1302
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: it's amazing that a family name could be attached to

1303
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: those dogs for so long and and and I like

1304
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,600
Speaker 1: to play the game of who's right? Was it the

1305
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: two boys coming from Germany? Was it George family coming over?

1306
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: So you made a compelling argument. You guys just really

1307
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: did a great job. My argument would be that this

1308
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: was a smart, successful family. You got a guy here

1309
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: that wrote a book.

1310
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I trust oral, you know, Uh, they couldn't find

1311
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 6: documentation to support or but I mean, these are these

1312
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 6: are brilliant people, successful people. You don't see the new

1313
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 6: com name all over the world. I mean, these guys,

1314
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 6: there's something special about these plot people. And they're not

1315
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 6: going to pass down lies. I mean, oh, George boy Henry,

1316
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 6: Henry tells Monty, Monty tells, Yeah, John got it. I mean,

1317
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 6: and it goes up to your buddy Bob. That's not

1318
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 6: too far back.

1319
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. You know, so you're you're saying it's not

1320
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: that they didn't just fabricate an outright lin Yeah.

1321
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I admit that

1322
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 6: it could be the other way.

1323
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: I mean, but well, that's a big question that has

1324
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: to be answered. Yeah, was there a family reunion when

1325
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: they're like back in the eighteen hundreds. Before they do,

1326
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: there's gonna be an internet or anybody's gonna care.

1327
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 4: We hey, Moses wrote the Book of Genesis thousands years

1328
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 4: after the Garden Eden. So do you believe that or not?

1329
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: There you go.

1330
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 4: If you can't believe that, then the plot story probably

1331
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 4: didn't free you.

1332
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: It's probably a little bit of both. Yeah, just like

1333
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: any other story that's probably a little bit of both.

1334
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1335
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1336
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,799
Speaker 5: And and in all fairness to John or mister Jackson,

1337
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 5: John Jackson, I don't feel like he I felt like

1338
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 5: he was very measured in his response.

1339
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 2: It was moral.

1340
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 4: I could not find documents.

1341
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah he wasn't.

1342
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 3: He wasn't. Yeah, I don't.

1343
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,480
Speaker 5: I didn't feel like it was too antagonistic or aggressive.

1344
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and no doubt. Well I tried to make it

1345
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: clear too that you know, one option would be that

1346
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 1: this family, just to go along with what you said,

1347
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: were so sharp, dominant, socially successful that maybe not even

1348
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: with intentionality, the plot name just got attached to them, right,

1349
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what John Jackson says. And it

1350
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: wasn't like they did this as some kind of conspiracy.

1351
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 1: It just happened on its own, you know, and it

1352
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: emerges the plot hound, But really the bigger web was

1353
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: much bigger in many other families in theory, and this

1354
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: is an exaggerated thing. But in theory, there could have

1355
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: been some other family that was as involved but not

1356
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: as vocal. I mean, that's kind of the idea, which

1357
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that really supports that, Like there was

1358
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: not another dominant family. And what my friend, I'm not

1359
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 1: gonna say his name because he might feel like he's

1360
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: gonna get in trouble. He told me a friend of ours,

1361
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 1: Chris over in Appalachia. That's a big plot, man, He said, Clay,

1362
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 1: can you imagine a family an Appalachia that was raising dogs,

1363
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: two families raising dogs breaking down, Two families raising dogs

1364
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: that were the same and they'd been working together in

1365
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:04,839
Speaker 1: one family gets to name the dog after their family,

1366
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: he said, don't you think the other family would be

1367
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: throwing a fit?

1368
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, you see, you see what you're.

1369
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: Saying, Like as if the plots came in and like

1370
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: swooped in to get all the glory for this thing.

1371
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1372
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: And this guy was like no, he said, and he

1373
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: basically was like I think they got it. Honest.

1374
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, you hear documentation of the other family going.

1375
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 1: Hold up, this is the Jones dog.

1376
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 4: I can tell you. I can tell you that even

1377
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 4: within an established breed, you know, breeding for trades, breeding

1378
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 4: for confirmation, breeding for color, and things like that, it's

1379
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 4: tough to do by yourself, even your own family. You're

1380
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 4: gonna need a network of people. Yes, so that would

1381
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 4: be a regional thing for Appalachia at the time. You know,

1382
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 4: there's other people in the community that need a bear dogs,

1383
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 4: and the plots had the dogs. But when it comes

1384
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,080
Speaker 4: back to it, and now I've got to breed the

1385
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 4: next generation a dog, It's like, is that a plot? Well,

1386
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a plot dog or not. Well,

1387
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 4: it looks like a plot. It's a really good bear dog.

1388
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 4: It's going to fit into this program. We can make

1389
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 4: this work. You know, that dog's got traits that I like.

1390
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 4: So he's not gonna he's not gonna upset the apple

1391
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 4: card here. So I really like him. Let's let's add him.

1392
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:22,759
Speaker 4: That's just a development. That's a natural development of Yeah,

1393
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 4: whether it's cattle breed, uh, dog, sheep or whatever, you know.

1394
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and undoubtedly that happened.

1395
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 4: And at some point it got to the point where,

1396
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 4: you know, Vaughn a few generations later, he already had

1397
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 4: his breed type. He already had his standard. Isaiah Kidd,

1398
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 4: all those guys, they all had that breed standard and stuff,

1399
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 4: and so they didn't breed outside of it. Their gene

1400
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 4: pool was big enough where they could stay within the

1401
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 4: breed type and.

1402
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 3: Boom, boom boom. That just exploded.

1403
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it didn't explode, but there's still rare.

1404
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: I was going to bring up. I had somebody, uh

1405
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: that got on to me for They said I bashed

1406
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: forward trucks. I said, it's like building a forward truck.

1407
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: We needed some overseas parts, but making America made and

1408
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 1: uh and they thought it was like a that like

1409
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: a punched afford.

1410
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:14,719
Speaker 2: Oh really, it was crazy.

1411
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,679
Speaker 1: I could have said anything. I could have used any

1412
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: single I thought it was funny though, that that was triggered.

1413
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah they were, Yeah, somebody was triggered on that. That

1414
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: was funny. Well, uh, what other thoughts? Yeah, this I

1415
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: have been working on this in ways for a long

1416
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 1: long time. I did those interviews two years ago, and

1417
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: I actually did.

1418
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1419
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 1: I sounded younger. Wasn't it smart though?

1420
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 3: But it was.

1421
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun And I think I

1422
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 1: think people that aren't even in the hounds could listen

1423
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: to it because it really wasn't about no.

1424
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 2: It was a family store America.

1425
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 3: It's American history, and it's a legacy, and it's you

1426
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 3: find a lot of value in it if you, and

1427
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 3: all you got to do is look is just barely

1428
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 3: look under the surface of it. I know you've heard

1429
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 3: me talk about and I've talked about it on my

1430
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 3: podcast about my dad Squirrel. The squirrel dogs in my

1431
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 3: family started with my great grandfather. Well, it ended with

1432
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 3: me and my brother. Well, we have no more of them.

1433
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 2: They're gone.

1434
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 3: There will never be any more of those dogs. And

1435
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 3: that is what's so cool about it to me and

1436
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 3: even emotional when I when I listen to it and

1437
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 3: think about all of that history with that family, and

1438
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 3: you're there's more. I cannot absolutely I can't wait for

1439
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 3: the rest of it.

1440
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: I don't think people, including me, understand the dedication that

1441
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: takes to have a generational line of hounds.

1442
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. It's an incredible

1443
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 2: amount of work those seven generations. I had seven generations

1444
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 2: of females all the way back. I didn't feel like

1445
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 2: breeding for a little while, and I didn't, and the

1446
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 2: last one died the day the heck was born and

1447
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 2: that's it. They're gone. No more of them. Yeah, that's it.

1448
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: And to and to think going back that many, that

1449
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 1: many general, it just takes a ton of intentionality. Uh yeah,

1450
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: how many plots do you have, Chris? Right now?

1451
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 4: I've got two right now too?

1452
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 3: Two?

1453
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. What's their breeding?

1454
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 4: They're buy you caging plots call these stuff.

1455
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, good, yep.

1456
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: Well, I am big time in the market for a

1457
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: plot female. I've decided. I told these guys, so this,

1458
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: this is funny, and this will give you a little

1459
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: bit of insight as we close down into the way

1460
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:44,759
Speaker 1: people think about these things. Is so my good plot

1461
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: female that I had, Yeah, Fern Newcomb's Ozark b C.

1462
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 1: Fern b C stands for Bluff Creek. Got it from

1463
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: Steve Herd. She was all I needed a koon dog

1464
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 1: and and and you know, if I had another one

1465
01:17:57,920 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: like her for the rest of my life, I'd be happy.

1466
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean she was good, doesn't mean she was bad.

1467
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 3: I just liked her.

1468
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,679
Speaker 1: She got she died last winter.

1469
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 3: She died.

1470
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: Plot coon dogs are hard to find. I mean, it's

1471
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: not that hard to like get a plot. But I

1472
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: tried to replace her for five years before she died,

1473
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: Like I I got I told you all that, and

1474
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 1: and and and got rid of went through I think

1475
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 1: four different dogs, and I even went as far as

1476
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 1: the hunt a walker dog Michael was gonna Michael had

1477
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 1: a dog, Michael. I hunted a dog for a couple

1478
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 1: of days that Michael had that was a fine hound.

1479
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,799
Speaker 1: I mean, probably better than any how that I've ever handled.

1480
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: And what I learned was I didn't want to I

1481
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,640
Speaker 1: didn't want a walker dog. I thought I wanted a

1482
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: coon dog.

1483
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 3: What I don't.

1484
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: I didn't really want a coon I wanted a plot

1485
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 1: coon dog. Because I actually try a hunted another walker

1486
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 1: during this summer, and uh, a guy, you know, it's

1487
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 1: a friend of mine had a dog, said you know,

1488
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: and then it three nights and just gave it back

1489
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,720
Speaker 1: to him and it wasn't the dog's fault. I just

1490
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: was kind of like, yeah, that was kind of dog's fault.

1491
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: But we just didn't do it for me. You like

1492
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 1: what you like, and it doesn't make any sense, and

1493
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 1: I think it probably bum fuzzled my two dear walker

1494
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: friends here. They're like, hey, Claire, thought you wanted a

1495
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 1: coon dog.

1496
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, here you go. I've always known you're weird.

1497
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 2: You know why I got a walker dog because the

1498
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 2: first dog I guy was a walker dog. Yeah.

1499
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 1: If that happened to me, that's the way I'd have been.

1500
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 3: You know.

1501
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 4: It's just it's one of those things that there's a

1502
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:46,719
Speaker 4: lot of really nice dogs out there of all colors.

1503
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 4: I mean, there really are.

1504
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 3: Plots. You take.

1505
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 4: You take like the Redwood line of plots, and you

1506
01:19:55,400 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 4: take like Johnny Hager from West Virginia, and he can

1507
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 4: compete just with anybody. You know, you know he's going

1508
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 4: to be there. You're gonna know he was there anyway. Yeah,

1509
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 4: And and Evan Workman and Jeff Coons and and now

1510
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,639
Speaker 4: you know there's they're out there. But I always get

1511
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 4: tickled out of these guys that are you know, they're hunting,

1512
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 4: hunting a walker or something like this, and they're like, yeah,

1513
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 4: I always always thought i'd try a plot sometime. It's like, man,

1514
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,679
Speaker 4: you don't have enough buy in, you know, It's no,

1515
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 4: that's not the way this works. You have total buy in.

1516
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 4: It's like it's like liking the deer hunt and think, oh,

1517
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 4: I think I'll pick up a flint lock and and

1518
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 4: go out and shoot a deer with it. You got

1519
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 4: to be more invested in it than that.

1520
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 1: It's not good.

1521
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 4: It's not easy. And I'm not even saying you're smart.

1522
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 4: I'm just saying it's not you know.

1523
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my life would be easier. I could go.

1524
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,599
Speaker 1: I bet money we could. We should probably do it.

1525
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 1: I bet today, Dad, I bet I could buy five

1526
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: walker dogs in the state of Arkansas that we could

1527
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: take out tonight and go trick the next four hours.

1528
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 1: I could I make four or five calls and I

1529
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: could get a good three year old dog if I

1530
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: had the money.

1531
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 3: I mean you do. Yeah, I look at that.

1532
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one one this is over.

1533
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: You did say if I had if I had ten

1534
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: grand and you said, Clay, go find you a good

1535
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 1: two year old plot female coon dog, I'd be like, Okay,

1536
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: which direction do I go? I mean there might be

1537
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 1: out there and money talks that might be a problem

1538
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:32,560
Speaker 1: one out of somebody.

1539
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 2: Why just because they're more big game hounds as well?

1540
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 4: Well, No, long we're going to make this book.

1541
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 1: This is what I made in part. I said this

1542
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 1: in a post on Instagram. I made them tag Brent Reeves.

1543
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: The there's a there's one hundred walkers to every one plot,

1544
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,839
Speaker 1: maybe more, maybe a thousand walkers. Like if you actually

1545
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: did the population dynamics on the breed of dog, let's

1546
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: just say there's a hundred to one. If I give

1547
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 1: you one hundred tries to throw a bean bag through

1548
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: a hole and I get one, you're gonna win every

1549
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: single time. And my point is that because I mean,

1550
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,280
Speaker 1: you have joked Brent, and I've said that to Brent

1551
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: before and I'm pretty sure he was like, well, why

1552
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 1: do you think there's one hundred walkers because they're good

1553
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: and people want them. I don't think that good logic

1554
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 1: is not entirely true because it all has to do

1555
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: with access and the walker just I mean, you couldn't

1556
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 1: even get plots till the nineteen forties.

1557
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 4: Walker dogs are good entry level dogs.

1558
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:36,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get to the top.

1559
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: And I'm not this is not degrading to walkers. I'm

1560
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: just saying it's not that simple. And so they're just

1561
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: a smaller pool. They're primarily big game dogs. There's just yeah,

1562
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:50,719
Speaker 1: it's just like, go right now and try to find

1563
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 1: a six week old plot. P up hard to find.

1564
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 4: When we were talking earlier, you know, I said plots

1565
01:22:56,479 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 4: are different and they are. And you know, in nineteen

1566
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 4: forty six, UKC decided to recognize them as a hound

1567
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 4: and it had some value for historical preservation and records

1568
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 4: keeping and stuff like that. But at that point, now

1569
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 4: you're allowed to go hunt them, and uk see night

1570
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 4: hunts in different So there's even a lot of strife

1571
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 4: within the plot breed breeders and fanciers between big game

1572
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 4: bread and coon bread dog coon dog type stuff. Yeah,

1573
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,760
Speaker 4: there's there's that kind of strife. There's strife, Well he's

1574
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,599
Speaker 4: a good bear dog, but or he's a good hog dog.

1575
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 4: But they're not good they're too hard for bear. You know,

1576
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 4: you get them, kill them bear, you know. I mean,

1577
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 4: you can just go on and on and on. You

1578
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 4: can make of all kinds of stuff. So the reason

1579
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 4: walkers are better is because people have one goal in mind,

1580
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 4: and that's to breed a good coon dog. Plot breeders

1581
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 4: want hog dogs, they want utilitarian dogs, they want bear dogs,

1582
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 4: they want coon dogs.

1583
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 1: They want Yeah, that's a good point.

1584
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

1585
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 4: Walker breeders are like, we're going to tree coons with

1586
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 4: this dog, and we're gonna win World champions ships and

1587
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 4: we're gonna win a lot of them and yep, and

1588
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:09,360
Speaker 4: that's what they do.

1589
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: And Dad, that's the walker dominates the hound world. I

1590
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: mean dominates like you know, I don't know the big

1591
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: big World Championship hunts. How many have not been walkers

1592
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:24,520
Speaker 1: in the last twenty years. I mean there's been some

1593
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 1: English and so maybe a blue tick here and there, maybe.

1594
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 2: No, but not in UK. See blue ticks never won

1595
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 2: UKC World.

1596
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: But anyway, the dogs like the dog that you have

1597
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 1: if you're a coon dog guy.

1598
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 3: But so that's.

1599
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 2: Had a blue tick as a kid.

1600
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, my first dogs were blue ticks.

1601
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 2: I was saying, the blue Ticks won some A C

1602
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 2: h A World hunts.

1603
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: And there was a plot that won the world one

1604
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 1: time in the eighties, right, that was one that was

1605
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: like like back nineteen ninety four n C double a Chance,

1606
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 1: Corlis Williamson, Scottie Thurman beat Duke. That's nineteen ninety four,

1607
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: Go hogs. Right, that's the one thing we've got in

1608
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 1: the whole state that our whole history.

1609
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 3: We got basketball and we got almost baseball.

1610
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: Well that's like the plots. When was nineteen eighty eight

1611
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:21,599
Speaker 1: that dog won the world.

1612
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 2: Change they won the PKC World one time too.

1613
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 3: They won the PKC World yep.

1614
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: So you know we got a few bright spots in

1615
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: the past, but we do have a good story.

1616
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, John walk Up won it, uh pk C and

1617
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,679
Speaker 4: Spud Reynolds and Jim Cannon won it with sizzling heat

1618
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 4: in the UKC World Hunt.

1619
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 1: M I guess I could use this platform to my

1620
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 1: advantage to try to appeal to some of these good

1621
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:48,680
Speaker 1: plot coon men.

1622
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:49,759
Speaker 4: I thought that was the only.

1623
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1624
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: Please the dog Burn, the dog that you and Michael

1625
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 1: are both hunted with, she was a good well, she

1626
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: was not. She was the only coon dog. I mean

1627
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 1: almost all those dogs went to be lying and bearing hogdogs.

1628
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but a Fern could have been as good a

1629
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 2: coon dog as there is. Fern's little holes that she

1630
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 2: had was because of you.

1631
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 1: No doubt.

1632
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 2: Stuff that you let her do that was okay with you.

1633
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 2: So sure other than that, sure street coon as good

1634
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 2: as any dog I've ever seen.

1635
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: So you're being generous. He didn't say that when I'm

1636
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: not around.

1637
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 3: No, he does. That's the truth. I've seen him now

1638
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 3: he saw it.

1639
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 4: I've been around some top plot coon dogs. I mean there, yeah,

1640
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 4: they're out there, but they're hard to They're just hard

1641
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 4: to get your hands on.

1642
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. Well uh any closing thoughts. Yeah, just one thought.

1643
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 6: I can't remember which one it was, but one of

1644
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 6: those boys, Mont or his boy Wab Yeah, uh said

1645
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 6: he would never have a bathroom inside of house he

1646
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 6: was living there.

1647
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:03,559
Speaker 5: Yeah. I thought I thought about that two different times

1648
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 5: today just driving down the road.

1649
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he wasn't the only one in that time

1650
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,839
Speaker 2: period that thought that either. That was a yeah, I left.

1651
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 1: That in there because there was such a little nugget

1652
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 1: he said. He said, I will he didn't have an

1653
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 1: indoor bathroom until like the nineteen forties because he said,

1654
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 1: I will never go to the bathroom in my house.

1655
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:29,680
Speaker 1: How crazy are you? That was good now that that

1656
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:31,759
Speaker 1: plot history over there, Golly, if you're ever in western

1657
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 1: North Carolina, Maggie Valley Heywood, I know you've seen all

1658
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:40,599
Speaker 1: the sites. Chris. There's a really neat historical marker put

1659
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: up by the state of North Carolina that looks over

1660
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: the plot Balsam Range and it has a a big bronze,

1661
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, about the half the size of a truck

1662
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: hood that has the story of the plot hound. You

1663
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 1: know it says that the Plots they lived here, they

1664
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 1: hunted here, they did this really cool. And then Bob

1665
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: just gave me the tour man one day. I mean,

1666
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: I'll realize what a unique thing I had spending the

1667
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: day a lot more than that with with Bob Plott

1668
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: over there, such a neat guy.

1669
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 6: And yeah, the cabin in the White House, those need

1670
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 6: to be preserved, if nothing, in really good photography and

1671
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 6: put it somewhere on display. I mean, I can't believe

1672
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 6: those two places are just well, they're not being neglected.

1673
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 1: Well, listen to this. So mont Plott's house that was

1674
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: built in like nineteen oh three, Yeah, nineteen oh three,

1675
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 1: somebody has It's not in the Plot family anymore. Somebody

1676
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: has bought that and they've fixed it up and it's

1677
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:49,200
Speaker 1: a beautiful home, probably worth a ton of money. They

1678
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: kept it classic though, they kept it, they held true.

1679
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 1: Just imagine a really nice home that's been renovated but

1680
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: still holds the kind of the tradition looks and styles.

1681
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: And so me and Bob went to this man's house,

1682
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: knocked on the door. Bob knew him, and he's like,

1683
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 1: oh Bob, and he's like, hey, these are plot men

1684
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: they want to see, you know, Mont's old house, and

1685
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: he took us all through the house and real neat

1686
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 1: in the cabin is surprisingly still intact. They've got they've

1687
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: done a good job of keeping it up. But it's

1688
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:24,640
Speaker 1: not public. I mean, it's not like you can go

1689
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: there and knock on this guy's door, you know, and

1690
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:30,519
Speaker 1: it's it's very private, and you know, they're not like

1691
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,240
Speaker 1: telling you where it's at. But yeah, it's a massive

1692
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: piece of history.

1693
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 6: The photography of it should be out for the public.

1694
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 1: And it is somewhere. Well, there's pictures of all that

1695
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: in Bob's book. Okay, yeah, strike and stay the story

1696
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: of the plot Hound. Yeah, man, support old Bob. He's

1697
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 1: a he's a he's a great writer. He's done a

1698
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 1: lot of writing in Southern Appalachia. He's got a stack.

1699
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:59,320
Speaker 4: Of great Highlands that one of his or was it

1700
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 4: the legendary Hunters of the Southern Highlands.

1701
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:03,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. There's a there's a bunch of them.

1702
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: There's some on the railroads and different things. But yeah,

1703
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 1: this has been great. Thank you Chris for coming from

1704
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 1: Indiana's man, Michael Chris, thank you for coming from South Arkansas.

1705
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: Sun Spot lights, Southern Ish Arkansas. Uh Grady, all right?

1706
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,440
Speaker 3: But Greig or Central Okay.

1707
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: Where somewhere somewhere down there, it doesn't matter. Isaac, good

1708
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: to have you, Brent, good to have you. Hey Meeteater's

1709
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: got a bunch of Black Friday sales first Light. If

1710
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 1: you want to take advantage of these big companies.

1711
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 3: Now's your time.

1712
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: Now's your time. Thank you, guys.

1713
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 3: You bet