WEBVTT - Taj Mahal 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.720 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:19.280 My guest today is Taj Mahals. You're the n YU 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.919 artist in residents. Tell me about that. Well, it's it's 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.640 uh something that's pretty exciting, you know, to be uh 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.240 singles out and asked to be uh, you know, bring 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.839 what it is that I do to a group of 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:41.640 young students that prestigious university. I'm a I'm a you know, 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:43.519 stoked to be able to do it and be a 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.479 part of it. So what exactly is it you will 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.160 be doing? Um, explaining some of the music that I play, 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.480 showing some of the styles, showing how what kinds of 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.320 connections they are, you know, I mean, it's a tremendous 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.760 amnomus have been brought into this hole. Um. You know 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:06.080 the dia spoard that's here between um, the Western Hemisphere 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:12.399 and uh the continent of Africa and the European intervention 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.080 to see that we all got over here and all 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.640 the music that's been created as a result of that movement, 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.319 and you know, and now it's sort of somehow it's 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.240 like the rails that the world works on in terms 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.640 of music from from the West. Look, can you go 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.560 a little deeper and tell us about that, go a 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:39.560 little deeper. Uh um No, I mean there's there's there's 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.679 not much more. As a as a kid growing up, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.199 you know, I hear music from the Caribbean or South 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.000 because I have Caribbean relatives of my Fotherish people and 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.320 my mother's people are from the American soil. So it's 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.000 kind of an interesting thing. There's a kid to grow 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.760 up with parents who two told you that gave you 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.760 a good you know, foundation to be able to move 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.520 forward in the world that you know, there was nothing 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.720 that you couldn't do. Uh. There may be people in 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.040 this world who may doubt you or or may me 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.079 not right to your face, tell you that they don't 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.240 think that you're of any value. Ignore all of its 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:24.440 absolutely meaningless, you know, and do something that is worthwhile 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.280 with your life. You know that has something to do 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.079 with community, you know, you know, something for humanity. And 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.080 so as a kid listening to music, you know, I 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.680 would hear music like from South America, Central America, or 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.680 the Caribbean or or you know, some other place like 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.800 that that was close to my own culture or you know, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.840 d NA have not even talked about that during that time, 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.240 and uh, I wonder why I already knew what I 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.519 was listening to. Maybe not the language, but I certainly 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.280 could feel the music and feel where it was coming from. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.840 And then you know, the same went for the basically 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.000 placed to save value when it was on music that 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.840 came from Europe and in Great Britain. If it moved me, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.120 then obviously it was something I needed to know about. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.000 And so you know, talking to a lot of these 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:22.240 young kids who who maybe only experienced commercial music, you know, 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.840 and kind of trying to help them expand past that 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.760 one and a half you know, ticks on either side 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.000 of what you've been listening to get him the thing 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.520 outside the box. So you had a big birthday this year. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:42.200 How does it feel to be this age? Cool? My 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:47.120 plumber still works, I'm still excited about waking up every day, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.280 and I'm still learning stuff about music and still composing 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:58.440 and you know, enjoying life. So what wisdom? You know, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:00.880 we live in a youth oriented culture, but those of 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.160 us who have gotten older, and you've now reached eighty, 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.760 you gain a lot of insight into life. Can you 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.920 give us anythings that you've learned going through eight decades already. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:17.320 Oh yeah, be true, be very true to your you know, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.800 when you discover what it is that you want to do, 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.559 you know, just be true to it. You know, stay 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.120 on your course. Stay your course, man, you know, set 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.880 your course. But whatever it is that you think that 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.520 you want to do, you know. And and like Yoda, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:40.560 do or not do but don't try? Yeah, and what 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:47.120 can you tell us about love relationships? Well, I'm this 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:48.960 is the question of it. So now why are you 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.080 asking me these things? What's this going to amount for you? 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:57.080 I mean, okay, the traditional interviews are you did this, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.200 you did that, what about your new album, etcetera, etcetera. 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.440 That's basically worthless because mostly people can listen to the 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.040 music and they don't get to know who the person is. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.520 I'm trying to get to know who you are and 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.760 the wisdom you have. I'm not trying to put you 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.440 on this. No, No, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.000 because you made an assumption coming in that I've never 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.839 given that kind of information in an interview, and I 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.839 have all along. That's what they cut out. You never 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.560 hear about that. You're right, absolutely correct, So now I 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.400 know what footing you're on it because it's like, wait 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.320 a second, is this this is your life? You know, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:41.480 just uh okay, sixty four questions. No, I'm you know, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.719 it's like I don't you know, I haven't really like said. 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.839 What to do is like find good people, you know, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.680 find find really good people to be around, you know, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.239 I mean number one you want if you're talking about 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.479 love relationships, you know, you want to know about a 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:04.839 woman that that that can can Dad's cook you know 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.640 it's smart, you know, won't let you be stupid, you know, 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:15.320 and vice versa. You know you know Dad's cook not 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:21.800 be stupid, you know, and uh, you appreciate, appreciate your 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.520 your your help when they turned around and say, oh, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.600 you know, I smell gas in to gets you what's 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.960 going on? Cut my car won't start, you know, and 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.400 really appreciate all those things. Vice versa. You know, when 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.440 you get hot headed in the wrong place, that person 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.120 knows how to put their hand on put their hand 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.600 on your forearm, and immediately you calm down. You know, 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.479 somebody really knows what's going on. It takes time to 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.599 find those people because a lot of times, you know, man, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:58.840 they're visually oriented. Sometimes you miss it. You know, listen, 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.839 listen to the inside. Let's talk about interacting in the business. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.960 I found. You know, the reputation is, oh, we have 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.119 all these flagrant musicians, these stars. I know, the people 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:16.160 who underneath the stars usually have to be nice in 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.600 order to work. You're certainly a star. What is it 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.360 when do you say no to people in the business 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.760 or when do you check yourself and say, I better 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:26.920 be nice because who knows what's going to happen next 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:31.520 time around. I don't really worry about that kind of stuff. 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.280 I just do what I do. You know, I've always 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.200 been a man of my word, and that's always put 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.400 here on earth to kill my My folks really gave 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.000 me those kinds of things to work with, you know, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.960 and you know it's it's it's done well for me. 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.120 All the way through here. A lot of guys keep 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.520 coming in and say they can't get this done, they 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.160 can't get that done. Well, I don't know what you're 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.760 looking for. I mean, the bottom line is is that 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:05.920 you have an honest, honest approach to everything. And I mean, yeah, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.559 there are people, there are people who have who have 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.800 stepped on my toes, and there are people who people 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.640 who ses I stepped on invertently without sometimes knowingly and 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.920 sometimes not knowing. But hey, at the end of the day, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.120 you know, we're we're all men, and we need to 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:28.920 know how to learn how to get along and do business. 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.040 So when you got into the public eye and the sixties, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.640 it was a very different music business than it is today. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.920 If you had a major label deal, they promoted you. Now, 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.880 even the biggest artists in the world reach a fraction 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.160 of the public. So is it hard to still be 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.280 motivated or you know you have your audience, or is 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:56.080 it more about just doing good work. Um, it's hard 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.120 when you're coming in in the sixties to really know 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.360 you're affair. Yeah, you know, that said to me a 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.960 lot of years to really understand what the fact because 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.880 you know, like the people who were selling lots of 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.760 records during those years. Um, you know, maybe I did 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.280 and maybe I didn't. I don't know the numbers. Who do. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.040 You can never depend upon what these guys will tell 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:25.000 you, you you know, and the business is not known for 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.640 for being you know, giving you an honest count. But 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:34.760 all those things being you know, set aside. Um, my 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.720 focus has always been about the music. That's why I 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.080 have the kind of output because if you knew how 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.520 much music was out there and not knowing how much 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.120 time you have to to put it out, most people 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.760 would shut up and be busy and there'd be lots 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.600 more music out there, regardless of the renumera isution. You know, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.400 nobody in Africa from where my from, where my DNA 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.920 comes from, and where I'm focused being a grill. You know. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.920 One of the things you got to really understand here 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:10.800 is that they scrubbed our hard drives clean five dred 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.920 years ago, okay. And so if you're lucky enough and 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.120 I'm and I'm and I put my energy under thinking 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.360 that I could be able to find the connection between 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.400 where I was living, you know, in this you know, 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.000 five hundred years and what went on before now. And 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.320 I made that connection and found the people, and the 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.920 people found me. You know, most people are are don't 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.520 have any idea. I mean, it doesn't make it us 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.760 what group of individuals you come from that puts you 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.120 in the Western world. Everybody's down beaten from five d 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.800 years ago, okay. But some people who down beat from 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.079 five hundred years ago or maybe two or three hundred 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.280 years ago, you know, still know that they have a country, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.680 you know that they can go back to as customs speaks. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.320 The language, you know, has colors that represent them. You know. 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:12.200 In my case, you know that's that's not so, you know, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:19.160 except I had progressive parents who were about, you know, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.640 making sure I knew that I had a connection beyond 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.360 my having out hard drives scrubbed out five years ago. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.920 So all I've been doing is going looking for making 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.560 those connections and showing people that they exist, you know, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.520 meaning that there are rio's you know, musicians who are historians, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.640 family and his storians who started in the eleventh century 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.440 a d okay, and many of them have seventy to 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.840 ninety you know, and even a hundred generations that they 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.520 have been the same musician. There's no music business over 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.280 the top deciding that if the money comes up to 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.360 the top, you know, we'll keep it. If the money 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.880 stops coming to the shop, we'll pull up the nets 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.040 and then everybody will panic, so, oh my god, there's 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.160 nothing here. We're gonna have to come up with something. 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.480 As soon as we come up with something, the net 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.880 drops down again and the moneyment tricky lays up. I'm 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.280 not a part of any of that. What I suggest 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.160 for young people to do is that if you love 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.520 the music, if you love whatever it is that you do, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.160 you know, if whatever it is that you do you love, 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.760 you'll never work a day in your life, or any 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.480 work that you do will not be something that you'll 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.160 be disappointed in. I mean, how disappointing is it just 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.600 spend forty fifties, sixties, seventy eighty years of your life 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.160 working with some of something or somebody who doesn't really 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.280 care if you, if you exist or not. So I 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.000 don't hon't I get pasted all of that, and and 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.960 and now I don't. You know, It's like, whatever it is, 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.320 we'll figure it out. At one time, it was ox carts, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.400 it was walking, you know, it was os cards and donkeys, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.360 you know whatever. The next thing, you know, people are 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.760 flying across over oceans and they don't use them anymore, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:13.520 but seven sevens whatever they are air busses doing much happening. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.679 So somewhere along the line, something's gonna change. Things are 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.559 gonna be different. What really counts knowing how to really 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:29.520 play real music that counts in every every place. Yeah, okay, Uh, 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.720 your parents were very progressive to what degree do you 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:39.679 know your own personal history X number of generations back? Um, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.280 I can go back probably like about close to get 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.680 closer to the seventeenth century. Wow in one side of 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:55.079 my family. Um um, well I would say, yeah, baby, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:14:01.079 maybe more Claire eighteen eighteenth century. And we're we're we're 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.959 when we're moving, were progressively moving back via African dna. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:11.440 Um Um, Actually ancestry DNA got me, got me where 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.920 it was where it wasn't West Africa, you know, but 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:23.600 African ancestry puts me squarely in Gabon and so you 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.680 know that's where a lot of the energy. And my 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:33.360 mother's side asked some interesting um, interesting Eastern African uh 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:39.880 lineage that came across on the um the land bridge 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:45.520 that was between Russia and uh, you know Alaska. So yeah, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.960 it's a lot of stuff, a lot going on, and 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.400 you know, via music what what I can hear and 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.360 what I can feel. You know, we've been able to 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:59.600 make a lot of connections. And have you been to Africa, regulars, sir? 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.320 Many people have not? Tell it. Tell us what you 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.720 learned there? Well, it wasn't what I learned. It is 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:12.800 what I mean basically that uh, I went to seventy nine. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.040 We went we did I think twelve countries in three months, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:18.840 and then the last time I went back, I went 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:27.040 to Zanzibar recorded, Yeah, I mean it it's soulful, but 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:32.880 but deeper, and you know it's it's it's it's not 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.440 living in the first world, which the U s is 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:41.240 is a different reality and living in living on the continent. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.160 You know, a lot of things are all the same, 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.240 you know, cities and running water and indoor toilets and 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.240 all that kind of stuff that a lot of people 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.280 think it's like kids with distinted bellies and flies in 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.800 their eyes, and it's uh Sally Strula is saying, oh 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.120 my god, twenty back cents a day brings these parts. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.160 You know, it's just media, you know that could be 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.720 just there are people in this country. Look at all 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.520 these tents, all these homeless here. It looks like a 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.920 third world country. If you asked me developing country and 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.760 they figure that out, you know, I dare I say, 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.400 lots of money goes out of this country to certain 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.440 situations that things are in. We have people that are 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.600 getting poisoned by the water and flint Michigan and having 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.240 difficulty in Jackson, Mississippi. That should be you know, take 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.000 care of home first and the rest be okay. But 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.880 going going to America was like wonderful, you know, I 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.000 was the last few years i've been been, um, you know, 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.680 getting preparing myself to go back, you know, go and 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.360 visit again, you know, and we'll see. I have friends, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.040 you know, friends in different countries there, and uh they're 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.560 always people real happy to receive me. I'll be happy 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.960 to be there. So, you know, sixties were time of upheaval, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.960 a lot of civil rights issue as a black man 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.159 in America. What's it like today compared to when you 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:17.399 were coming up? Oh? Clearly when I was coming up, 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:29.720 uh crt. You know, it's a it's it's uh as 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:36.359 as dangerous, but but different in in uh more cyberspace, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:43.199 you know, digital world kind of way. Now, when you 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:48.400 were coming up, you were very much involved with anglos 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.720 and white music. And why did you say that? I'm 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.280 talking about not in terms of your own personality, the 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.040 way you were marketed, okay and working with a lot 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.800 of white uh commercial artists. What was it like being 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.720 were you the only black guy around or did you 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.879 find no, there was a lot of them it's just 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.040 that some people, some people didn't understand that you have 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:16.399 to do you have to have a certain kind of 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.200 drive and and you can't spend there's a whole bunch 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.720 of stuff that you can't spend time, um being emotional about, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.879 you know, because a lot of people because they haven't. 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.040 You know, I grew up in New England. Okay, Um, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.560 my dad grew up in New York. His his parents 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.480 were immigrants. You know, we grew up in good communities. 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.960 You know, different people were different people still part of 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.640 the human race. So a lot of guys I didn't 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.840 you know, I just didn't. I didn't have that kind 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:52.919 of thing. I was the only black guy there, so 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.440 I didn't know that none of that stuff about me. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.760 You know. The point of it was is that is 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:04.159 that I discovered early on that that the older music, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.560 the older Black music, which is like titter scenario, the 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:16.240 music happening and people it gets it gets distorted when, uh, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:21.639 when someone from another culture decides that you're just this 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:27.640 from your culture is what is economically viable. There are 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.119 lots of other things that were viable. The part of 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.520 what I was doing, no matter what in the music 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.760 that I put out There is always music that maybe 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.400 somebody doesn't really understand what it is, but there are 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.879 people who do because it's it's cultural, it is. And 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.199 you know, I don't do music. I don't do do 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.639 music for money. I don't play. I don't perform music 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.560 for money. You know what the money comes, the money 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.960 comes in to make it, you know, make make my 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.679 you know, my uh my traveling from one place to 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.879 the next, and be able to handle my responsibilities done, 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.840 you know. But but playing nowadays, yeah, there was. It was. 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.480 It was a largely white audience that seemed to really 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.960 like the older music and be a part of that. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.679 At no time, he ever, wasn't that there was no 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.040 room for anybody black in my you know, in my 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:32.600 crew organization, in fact, oftentimes my personal organization you know, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.679 did have you know, at all African Americans. You your staff. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.600 My brother was was my manager. You know, we had 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.040 two wasn't ful ladies that worked for me, you know, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.280 you know, but I was, like I said, I don't 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.679 have I didn't have any I didn't have no problem 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.600 with with people because I came up around lots of 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.359 different ethnics, you know, and we all went to school together. 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:01.760 Playing music. I grew up in the Western Massachusetts. Um 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:06.320 you're born in New York, raised in Western Massachusetts. You know, Springfield, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.960 Massachusetts is like maybe like well, I don't know the 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.760 terminal on the underground railroad. You know. Lots of people 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:20.480 had different kinds of relationships with their lives. They own homes, businesses, 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.439 you know, we're principles of schools round the police force, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.119 you know, I mean all a lot of things that 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.199 are in other other you know, parts of the country 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.760 where you know, you gotta a force, a police force 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.480 that don't look like the people that they're they're dealing with. 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.919 You know. Where where it was with us is that, hey, 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.480 this is the neighborhood these people living, this is the 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.359 neighborhood that should be the you know, the police force 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.600 that's dealing with them, you know, and they should look 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.760 like that. So a whole lot of things I was 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.600 really surprised at. People didn't really have any ideas. You know, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:02.119 my mother was college graduate from South Carolina State nineteen seven, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.360 you know, in early childhood development. You know, my father's 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.040 Caribbean jazz pianist, composer, you know, sharp, smart guy. He 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.280 didn't he didn't go to college. But he was well read. 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.440 And the two of them, we all have some high 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.240 had the same kind of high ideals that a lot 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.919 of people in Harlem head back in those days. You know. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:28.680 I mean it's only the the the ignorance of the 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.560 bulk of population at large that has no idea that 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:44.320 these things were going on. You know, how did your 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:51.560 parents meet? Savoy ballroom? Uh during the time of Ella Fitzgerald. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:56.040 Ella Fitzgerald was like the hot new phenom. She was 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:01.040 there at the Savoy Ballroom playing with u um uh 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.719 to chick web bad. My dad was there to deliver 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:10.280 some um some sheet music, you know, some charts for 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:14.639 the band Hawker tunes that he was composing, you know, 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.760 get paid, you know. And my mother came there with 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:21.119 a bunch of her girlfriends to hear this incredible pheno 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.080 the Savoy Ballroom, the two of him, he saw her, 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:29.480 saw her. That table of women came on over, made 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:34.520 the pitch and here I am ah. And you see, 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.720 your mother graduated from South Carolina State in the thirties. 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.439 That was an arrow where a lot of people, white 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:42.920 or black didn't go to college. So what was her 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:48.360 family upbringing? Like her mother came to her. My grandmother 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:50.879 came to her marriage with two auntred acres and the phone. 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:57.800 My grandfather, my mother's father, was a was a farmer 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.199 in the beginning, and later later on was a tailor 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:06.119 and ran a great cleaning a step you know, you know, 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.640 close cleaning establishment. You know that tailored and did all 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.879 that kind of stuff. And you know, my mother was 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.480 the first one of her family to go to college, 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:21.040 so you know, and when she met your father in 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.440 the ballroom, what was she doing for work? Do you remember? Yes, 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:26.760 she was on her hands and knees and Long Island 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:31.200 scrubbing floors. Because of the New York State Board of Education, 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.760 I thought we didn't allow the type of education that 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.760 she had to be able to be teaching in their 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.560 school system. You know, horribly disappointed. She did only the 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:45.560 only thing that women were, you know, black women at 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:48.560 that time were thought they could do. And so she was. 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.440 She get on her train every day about the Long 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.480 Island scrimped those those floors with the lady who put 0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.720 on the white gloves going along to the base board 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:02.680 to make sure that was no dirt. And uh, unfortunately, 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.800 in the early fifties, with a husband and five kids, 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.719 she went back to college and she got her masters 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:13.200 to read from Springfield College. And the reason, the reason 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:17.040 was always so that nobody could ever tell her again 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:21.439 that she didn't have enough credits or enough education to 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:23.920 be able to do the job she did. You know, 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.320 like I was saying, is that the town that we 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:30.760 grew up in. You know, we have black principles, black policemen, 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:35.919 you know, I mean, you name it. You know it 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.399 was and this wasn't just this was a longside of 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:44.639 everybody else's ethnic groupie represent you know, so you know, 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:46.399 it's a it's a different kind of thing when you 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:48.680 grow up like that. A lot of people they go 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:50.879 off on this side of the town. They don't know 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:53.280 who these people are. The only time they deal with 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:56.080 him is this by way or that way, you know, 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:58.960 so forth and so on. It wasn't that way. I 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:02.120 mean there's a minute that they were you know places 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:07.000 around that you know where people you know, um like 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.480 East long Meadow or Agaam or you know long Meadow 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:14.800 where you know they were very well risk. People say 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:19.399 out toward um Hamden, you know, a little a little 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:25.520