1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,720
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

2
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:19,280
Speaker 1: My guest today is Taj Mahals. You're the n YU

3
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: artist in residents. Tell me about that. Well, it's it's

4
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 1: uh something that's pretty exciting, you know, to be uh

5
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,240
Speaker 1: singles out and asked to be uh, you know, bring

6
00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: what it is that I do to a group of

7
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 1: young students that prestigious university. I'm a I'm a you know,

8
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,519
Speaker 1: stoked to be able to do it and be a

9
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 1: part of it. So what exactly is it you will

10
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 1: be doing? Um, explaining some of the music that I play,

11
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: showing some of the styles, showing how what kinds of

12
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 1: connections they are, you know, I mean, it's a tremendous

13
00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 1: amnomus have been brought into this hole. Um. You know

14
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: the dia spoard that's here between um, the Western Hemisphere

15
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 1: and uh the continent of Africa and the European intervention

16
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 1: to see that we all got over here and all

17
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: the music that's been created as a result of that movement,

18
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 1: and you know, and now it's sort of somehow it's

19
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: like the rails that the world works on in terms

20
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,640
Speaker 1: of music from from the West. Look, can you go

21
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 1: a little deeper and tell us about that, go a

22
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: little deeper. Uh um No, I mean there's there's there's

23
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 1: not much more. As a as a kid growing up,

24
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,199
Speaker 1: you know, I hear music from the Caribbean or South

25
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 1: because I have Caribbean relatives of my Fotherish people and

26
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: my mother's people are from the American soil. So it's

27
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,000
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting thing. There's a kid to grow

28
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 1: up with parents who two told you that gave you

29
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: a good you know, foundation to be able to move

30
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: forward in the world that you know, there was nothing

31
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: that you couldn't do. Uh. There may be people in

32
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: this world who may doubt you or or may me

33
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 1: not right to your face, tell you that they don't

34
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 1: think that you're of any value. Ignore all of its

35
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 1: absolutely meaningless, you know, and do something that is worthwhile

36
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 1: with your life. You know that has something to do

37
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,079
Speaker 1: with community, you know, you know, something for humanity. And

38
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,080
Speaker 1: so as a kid listening to music, you know, I

39
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: would hear music like from South America, Central America, or

40
00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 1: the Caribbean or or you know, some other place like

41
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: that that was close to my own culture or you know,

42
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 1: d NA have not even talked about that during that time,

43
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: and uh, I wonder why I already knew what I

44
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,519
Speaker 1: was listening to. Maybe not the language, but I certainly

45
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 1: could feel the music and feel where it was coming from.

46
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 1: And then you know, the same went for the basically

47
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: placed to save value when it was on music that

48
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: came from Europe and in Great Britain. If it moved me,

49
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: then obviously it was something I needed to know about.

50
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: And so you know, talking to a lot of these

51
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 1: young kids who who maybe only experienced commercial music, you know,

52
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 1: and kind of trying to help them expand past that

53
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: one and a half you know, ticks on either side

54
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 1: of what you've been listening to get him the thing

55
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 1: outside the box. So you had a big birthday this year.

56
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: How does it feel to be this age? Cool? My

57
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 1: plumber still works, I'm still excited about waking up every day,

58
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: and I'm still learning stuff about music and still composing

59
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 1: and you know, enjoying life. So what wisdom? You know,

60
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: we live in a youth oriented culture, but those of

61
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: us who have gotten older, and you've now reached eighty,

62
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: you gain a lot of insight into life. Can you

63
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: give us anythings that you've learned going through eight decades already.

64
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, be true, be very true to your you know,

65
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: when you discover what it is that you want to do,

66
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,559
Speaker 1: you know, just be true to it. You know, stay

67
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: on your course. Stay your course, man, you know, set

68
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 1: your course. But whatever it is that you think that

69
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: you want to do, you know. And and like Yoda,

70
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: do or not do but don't try? Yeah, and what

71
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: can you tell us about love relationships? Well, I'm this

72
00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: is the question of it. So now why are you

73
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 1: asking me these things? What's this going to amount for you?

74
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, the traditional interviews are you did this,

75
00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: you did that, what about your new album, etcetera, etcetera.

76
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 1: That's basically worthless because mostly people can listen to the

77
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 1: music and they don't get to know who the person is.

78
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to know who you are and

79
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 1: the wisdom you have. I'm not trying to put you

80
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: on this. No, No, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay,

81
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 1: because you made an assumption coming in that I've never

82
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 1: given that kind of information in an interview, and I

83
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,839
Speaker 1: have all along. That's what they cut out. You never

84
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 1: hear about that. You're right, absolutely correct, So now I

85
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: know what footing you're on it because it's like, wait

86
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 1: a second, is this this is your life? You know,

87
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:41,480
Speaker 1: just uh okay, sixty four questions. No, I'm you know,

88
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 1: it's like I don't you know, I haven't really like said.

89
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 1: What to do is like find good people, you know,

90
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,680
Speaker 1: find find really good people to be around, you know,

91
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,239
Speaker 1: I mean number one you want if you're talking about

92
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,479
Speaker 1: love relationships, you know, you want to know about a

93
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 1: woman that that that can can Dad's cook you know

94
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: it's smart, you know, won't let you be stupid, you know,

95
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 1: and vice versa. You know you know Dad's cook not

96
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: be stupid, you know, and uh, you appreciate, appreciate your

97
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 1: your your help when they turned around and say, oh,

98
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, I smell gas in to gets you what's

99
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 1: going on? Cut my car won't start, you know, and

100
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: really appreciate all those things. Vice versa. You know, when

101
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 1: you get hot headed in the wrong place, that person

102
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 1: knows how to put their hand on put their hand

103
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: on your forearm, and immediately you calm down. You know,

104
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 1: somebody really knows what's going on. It takes time to

105
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 1: find those people because a lot of times, you know, man,

106
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: they're visually oriented. Sometimes you miss it. You know, listen,

107
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: listen to the inside. Let's talk about interacting in the business.

108
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 1: I found. You know, the reputation is, oh, we have

109
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,119
Speaker 1: all these flagrant musicians, these stars. I know, the people

110
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 1: who underneath the stars usually have to be nice in

111
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 1: order to work. You're certainly a star. What is it

112
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 1: when do you say no to people in the business

113
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 1: or when do you check yourself and say, I better

114
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: be nice because who knows what's going to happen next

115
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: time around. I don't really worry about that kind of stuff.

116
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: I just do what I do. You know, I've always

117
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,200
Speaker 1: been a man of my word, and that's always put

118
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,400
Speaker 1: here on earth to kill my My folks really gave

119
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: me those kinds of things to work with, you know,

120
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,960
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's it's done well for me.

121
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: All the way through here. A lot of guys keep

122
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,520
Speaker 1: coming in and say they can't get this done, they

123
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: can't get that done. Well, I don't know what you're

124
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: looking for. I mean, the bottom line is is that

125
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 1: you have an honest, honest approach to everything. And I mean, yeah,

126
00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,559
Speaker 1: there are people, there are people who have who have

127
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,800
Speaker 1: stepped on my toes, and there are people who people

128
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: who ses I stepped on invertently without sometimes knowingly and

129
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 1: sometimes not knowing. But hey, at the end of the day,

130
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're all men, and we need to

131
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 1: know how to learn how to get along and do business.

132
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: So when you got into the public eye and the sixties,

133
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 1: it was a very different music business than it is today.

134
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: If you had a major label deal, they promoted you. Now,

135
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: even the biggest artists in the world reach a fraction

136
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,160
Speaker 1: of the public. So is it hard to still be

137
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 1: motivated or you know you have your audience, or is

138
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 1: it more about just doing good work. Um, it's hard

139
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 1: when you're coming in in the sixties to really know

140
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: you're affair. Yeah, you know, that said to me a

141
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,960
Speaker 1: lot of years to really understand what the fact because

142
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, like the people who were selling lots of

143
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: records during those years. Um, you know, maybe I did

144
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 1: and maybe I didn't. I don't know the numbers. Who do.

145
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 1: You can never depend upon what these guys will tell

146
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 1: you, you you know, and the business is not known for

147
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 1: for being you know, giving you an honest count. But

148
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: all those things being you know, set aside. Um, my

149
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 1: focus has always been about the music. That's why I

150
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,080
Speaker 1: have the kind of output because if you knew how

151
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: much music was out there and not knowing how much

152
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: time you have to to put it out, most people

153
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 1: would shut up and be busy and there'd be lots

154
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: more music out there, regardless of the renumera isution. You know,

155
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,400
Speaker 1: nobody in Africa from where my from, where my DNA

156
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 1: comes from, and where I'm focused being a grill. You know.

157
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 1: One of the things you got to really understand here

158
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 1: is that they scrubbed our hard drives clean five dred

159
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: years ago, okay. And so if you're lucky enough and

160
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: I'm and I'm and I put my energy under thinking

161
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: that I could be able to find the connection between

162
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 1: where I was living, you know, in this you know,

163
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 1: five hundred years and what went on before now. And

164
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 1: I made that connection and found the people, and the

165
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,920
Speaker 1: people found me. You know, most people are are don't

166
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,520
Speaker 1: have any idea. I mean, it doesn't make it us

167
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 1: what group of individuals you come from that puts you

168
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 1: in the Western world. Everybody's down beaten from five d

169
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 1: years ago, okay. But some people who down beat from

170
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,079
Speaker 1: five hundred years ago or maybe two or three hundred

171
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: years ago, you know, still know that they have a country,

172
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 1: you know that they can go back to as customs speaks.

173
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 1: The language, you know, has colors that represent them. You know.

174
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 1: In my case, you know that's that's not so, you know,

175
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 1: except I had progressive parents who were about, you know,

176
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 1: making sure I knew that I had a connection beyond

177
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: my having out hard drives scrubbed out five years ago.

178
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: So all I've been doing is going looking for making

179
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,560
Speaker 1: those connections and showing people that they exist, you know,

180
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 1: meaning that there are rio's you know, musicians who are historians,

181
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: family and his storians who started in the eleventh century

182
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 1: a d okay, and many of them have seventy to

183
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: ninety you know, and even a hundred generations that they

184
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: have been the same musician. There's no music business over

185
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 1: the top deciding that if the money comes up to

186
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: the top, you know, we'll keep it. If the money

187
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: stops coming to the shop, we'll pull up the nets

188
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 1: and then everybody will panic, so, oh my god, there's

189
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: nothing here. We're gonna have to come up with something.

190
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 1: As soon as we come up with something, the net

191
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,880
Speaker 1: drops down again and the moneyment tricky lays up. I'm

192
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: not a part of any of that. What I suggest

193
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: for young people to do is that if you love

194
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 1: the music, if you love whatever it is that you do,

195
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, if whatever it is that you do you love,

196
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: you'll never work a day in your life, or any

197
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 1: work that you do will not be something that you'll

198
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 1: be disappointed in. I mean, how disappointing is it just

199
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 1: spend forty fifties, sixties, seventy eighty years of your life

200
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: working with some of something or somebody who doesn't really

201
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 1: care if you, if you exist or not. So I

202
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: don't hon't I get pasted all of that, and and

203
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 1: and now I don't. You know, It's like, whatever it is,

204
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,320
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. At one time, it was ox carts,

205
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 1: it was walking, you know, it was os cards and donkeys,

206
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: you know whatever. The next thing, you know, people are

207
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 1: flying across over oceans and they don't use them anymore,

208
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: but seven sevens whatever they are air busses doing much happening.

209
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,679
Speaker 1: So somewhere along the line, something's gonna change. Things are

210
00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,559
Speaker 1: gonna be different. What really counts knowing how to really

211
00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 1: play real music that counts in every every place. Yeah, okay, Uh,

212
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,720
Speaker 1: your parents were very progressive to what degree do you

213
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:39,679
Speaker 1: know your own personal history X number of generations back? Um,

214
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 1: I can go back probably like about close to get

215
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 1: closer to the seventeenth century. Wow in one side of

216
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:55,079
Speaker 1: my family. Um um, well I would say, yeah, baby,

217
00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:01,079
Speaker 1: maybe more Claire eighteen eighteenth century. And we're we're we're

218
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,959
Speaker 1: when we're moving, were progressively moving back via African dna.

219
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,440
Speaker 1: Um Um, Actually ancestry DNA got me, got me where

220
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 1: it was where it wasn't West Africa, you know, but

221
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 1: African ancestry puts me squarely in Gabon and so you

222
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 1: know that's where a lot of the energy. And my

223
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: mother's side asked some interesting um, interesting Eastern African uh

224
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,880
Speaker 1: lineage that came across on the um the land bridge

225
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 1: that was between Russia and uh, you know Alaska. So yeah,

226
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 1: it's a lot of stuff, a lot going on, and

227
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, via music what what I can hear and

228
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 1: what I can feel. You know, we've been able to

229
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: make a lot of connections. And have you been to Africa, regulars, sir?

230
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: Many people have not? Tell it. Tell us what you

231
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,720
Speaker 1: learned there? Well, it wasn't what I learned. It is

232
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:12,800
Speaker 1: what I mean basically that uh, I went to seventy nine.

233
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 1: We went we did I think twelve countries in three months,

234
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: and then the last time I went back, I went

235
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: to Zanzibar recorded, Yeah, I mean it it's soulful, but

236
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 1: but deeper, and you know it's it's it's it's not

237
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: living in the first world, which the U s is

238
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 1: is a different reality and living in living on the continent.

239
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,160
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of things are all the same,

240
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, cities and running water and indoor toilets and

241
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff that a lot of people

242
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 1: think it's like kids with distinted bellies and flies in

243
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: their eyes, and it's uh Sally Strula is saying, oh

244
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: my god, twenty back cents a day brings these parts.

245
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's just media, you know that could be

246
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: just there are people in this country. Look at all

247
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: these tents, all these homeless here. It looks like a

248
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: third world country. If you asked me developing country and

249
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 1: they figure that out, you know, I dare I say,

250
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 1: lots of money goes out of this country to certain

251
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: situations that things are in. We have people that are

252
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: getting poisoned by the water and flint Michigan and having

253
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 1: difficulty in Jackson, Mississippi. That should be you know, take

254
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 1: care of home first and the rest be okay. But

255
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 1: going going to America was like wonderful, you know, I

256
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 1: was the last few years i've been been, um, you know,

257
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: getting preparing myself to go back, you know, go and

258
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 1: visit again, you know, and we'll see. I have friends,

259
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, friends in different countries there, and uh they're

260
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 1: always people real happy to receive me. I'll be happy

261
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 1: to be there. So, you know, sixties were time of upheaval,

262
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 1: a lot of civil rights issue as a black man

263
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,159
Speaker 1: in America. What's it like today compared to when you

264
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:17,399
Speaker 1: were coming up? Oh? Clearly when I was coming up,

265
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: uh crt. You know, it's a it's it's uh as

266
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 1: as dangerous, but but different in in uh more cyberspace,

267
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: you know, digital world kind of way. Now, when you

268
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 1: were coming up, you were very much involved with anglos

269
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 1: and white music. And why did you say that? I'm

270
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 1: talking about not in terms of your own personality, the

271
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: way you were marketed, okay and working with a lot

272
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 1: of white uh commercial artists. What was it like being

273
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 1: were you the only black guy around or did you

274
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 1: find no, there was a lot of them it's just

275
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: that some people, some people didn't understand that you have

276
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,399
Speaker 1: to do you have to have a certain kind of

277
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 1: drive and and you can't spend there's a whole bunch

278
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 1: of stuff that you can't spend time, um being emotional about,

279
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of people because they haven't.

280
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in New England. Okay, Um,

281
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: my dad grew up in New York. His his parents

282
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: were immigrants. You know, we grew up in good communities.

283
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 1: You know, different people were different people still part of

284
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,640
Speaker 1: the human race. So a lot of guys I didn't

285
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, I just didn't. I didn't have that kind

286
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 1: of thing. I was the only black guy there, so

287
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: I didn't know that none of that stuff about me.

288
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 1: You know. The point of it was is that is

289
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 1: that I discovered early on that that the older music,

290
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: the older Black music, which is like titter scenario, the

291
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: music happening and people it gets it gets distorted when, uh,

292
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: when someone from another culture decides that you're just this

293
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:27,640
Speaker 1: from your culture is what is economically viable. There are

294
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 1: lots of other things that were viable. The part of

295
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: what I was doing, no matter what in the music

296
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: that I put out There is always music that maybe

297
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 1: somebody doesn't really understand what it is, but there are

298
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 1: people who do because it's it's cultural, it is. And

299
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 1: you know, I don't do music. I don't do do

300
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 1: music for money. I don't play. I don't perform music

301
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: for money. You know what the money comes, the money

302
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: comes in to make it, you know, make make my

303
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 1: you know, my uh my traveling from one place to

304
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 1: the next, and be able to handle my responsibilities done,

305
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: you know. But but playing nowadays, yeah, there was. It was.

306
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: It was a largely white audience that seemed to really

307
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 1: like the older music and be a part of that.

308
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 1: At no time, he ever, wasn't that there was no

309
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: room for anybody black in my you know, in my

310
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: crew organization, in fact, oftentimes my personal organization you know,

311
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: did have you know, at all African Americans. You your staff.

312
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: My brother was was my manager. You know, we had

313
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: two wasn't ful ladies that worked for me, you know,

314
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, but I was, like I said, I don't

315
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: have I didn't have any I didn't have no problem

316
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: with with people because I came up around lots of

317
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: different ethnics, you know, and we all went to school together.

318
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: Playing music. I grew up in the Western Massachusetts. Um

319
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: you're born in New York, raised in Western Massachusetts. You know, Springfield,

320
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: Massachusetts is like maybe like well, I don't know the

321
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 1: terminal on the underground railroad. You know. Lots of people

322
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: had different kinds of relationships with their lives. They own homes, businesses,

323
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: you know, we're principles of schools round the police force,

324
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: you know, I mean all a lot of things that

325
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: are in other other you know, parts of the country

326
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: where you know, you gotta a force, a police force

327
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: that don't look like the people that they're they're dealing with.

328
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: You know. Where where it was with us is that, hey,

329
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: this is the neighborhood these people living, this is the

330
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: neighborhood that should be the you know, the police force

331
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: that's dealing with them, you know, and they should look

332
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: like that. So a whole lot of things I was

333
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: really surprised at. People didn't really have any ideas. You know,

334
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: my mother was college graduate from South Carolina State nineteen seven,

335
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, in early childhood development. You know, my father's

336
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: Caribbean jazz pianist, composer, you know, sharp, smart guy. He

337
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't go to college. But he was well read.

338
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: And the two of them, we all have some high

339
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: had the same kind of high ideals that a lot

340
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: of people in Harlem head back in those days. You know.

341
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean it's only the the the ignorance of the

342
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: bulk of population at large that has no idea that

343
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: these things were going on. You know, how did your

344
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: parents meet? Savoy ballroom? Uh during the time of Ella Fitzgerald.

345
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: Ella Fitzgerald was like the hot new phenom. She was

346
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: there at the Savoy Ballroom playing with u um uh

347
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 1: to chick web bad. My dad was there to deliver

348
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: some um some sheet music, you know, some charts for

349
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: the band Hawker tunes that he was composing, you know,

350
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: get paid, you know. And my mother came there with

351
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: a bunch of her girlfriends to hear this incredible pheno

352
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: the Savoy Ballroom, the two of him, he saw her,

353
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: saw her. That table of women came on over, made

354
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: the pitch and here I am ah. And you see,

355
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: your mother graduated from South Carolina State in the thirties.

356
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: That was an arrow where a lot of people, white

357
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: or black didn't go to college. So what was her

358
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: family upbringing? Like her mother came to her. My grandmother

359
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: came to her marriage with two auntred acres and the phone.

360
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: My grandfather, my mother's father, was a was a farmer

361
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: in the beginning, and later later on was a tailor

362
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: and ran a great cleaning a step you know, you know,

363
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: close cleaning establishment. You know that tailored and did all

364
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And you know, my mother was

365
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: the first one of her family to go to college,

366
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: so you know, and when she met your father in

367
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: the ballroom, what was she doing for work? Do you remember? Yes,

368
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: she was on her hands and knees and Long Island

369
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: scrubbing floors. Because of the New York State Board of Education,

370
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: I thought we didn't allow the type of education that

371
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: she had to be able to be teaching in their

372
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: school system. You know, horribly disappointed. She did only the

373
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: only thing that women were, you know, black women at

374
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: that time were thought they could do. And so she was.

375
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: She get on her train every day about the Long

376
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: Island scrimped those those floors with the lady who put

377
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: on the white gloves going along to the base board

378
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: to make sure that was no dirt. And uh, unfortunately,

379
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: in the early fifties, with a husband and five kids,

380
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: she went back to college and she got her masters

381
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: to read from Springfield College. And the reason, the reason

382
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: was always so that nobody could ever tell her again

383
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: that she didn't have enough credits or enough education to

384
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: be able to do the job she did. You know,

385
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: like I was saying, is that the town that we

386
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: grew up in. You know, we have black principles, black policemen,

387
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you name it. You know it

388
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: was and this wasn't just this was a longside of

389
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: everybody else's ethnic groupie represent you know, so you know,

390
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: it's a it's a different kind of thing when you

391
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: grow up like that. A lot of people they go

392
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: off on this side of the town. They don't know

393
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: who these people are. The only time they deal with

394
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: him is this by way or that way, you know,

395
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: so forth and so on. It wasn't that way. I

396
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: mean there's a minute that they were you know places

397
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: around that you know where people you know, um like

398
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: East long Meadow or Agaam or you know long Meadow

399
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: where you know they were very well risk. People say

400
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: out toward um Hamden, you know, a little a little

401
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: small sixteen ten three four or five six ten fifteen

402
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: sixty acre, little farmers and kids had horses and ponies

403
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: and whatnot. You know, everybody didn't go out there unless

404
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: we had something to do, you know, in that space.

405
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, she that's what she was doing,

406
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: you know she was. And she heard a bunch of

407
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: kitchen mechanics as they used to call themselves, not cooks

408
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: and waiters or whatever, you know, at all ladies at

409
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: call going out well, you know, because that was always

410
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: like the talk the talk of the town at that moment.

411
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: And then your father was from where in the career

412
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: of being and what motivated him to move to New

413
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: York St. Kitts and he was as my grandfather and grandmother. Hello,

414
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: we've had passports in our family on that side of

415
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: the of of you know, my father's side of the families.

416
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: This nineteen o two when they came up from Saint

417
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Kitts and he was small islands down there. You know,

418
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: the the British put a stragglehold on a lot of them,

419
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, so when Sugar went out, you know, you

420
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: had to find we have find other kinds of jobs

421
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: to do. My grandfather, you know, was educated in the

422
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: British system. You know, it came came to New York.

423
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: Probably my grandmother from from Saint Kitts and New York.

424
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: She was on the same thing for her. She was

425
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: as a fourteen year old girl. She you know, people

426
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: used to leave New England or wherever in the United

427
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: States and summertime go on vacation and take their wives

428
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: down to the Caribbean and they wouldn't have to cook,

429
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: wash clean or make beds and you know, give the

430
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: wife um uh vacation while he was out of hustling,

431
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: you know, after they spent the year hustling trying to

432
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: put them up with his money together, you know. And

433
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about general people from the dominant culture.

434
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: So my grandmother, Uh, after a couple of years of

435
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: these folks coming down there, she and her sister were

436
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: doing all this different work for these people. She was

437
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: asked would she like to come to the States and

438
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: u and if she came to the States, she could work, uh,

439
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: work off her passage with these people. And uh so

440
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: they agree to it. She came to the States work

441
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: for these folks, and one day my grandfather, who was working, uh,

442
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: you know the same thing. He they all thought about

443
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: the United States. You know, we're wonderful to be able.

444
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: They had their kids there. You know, there'll be American

445
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: citizens and not only the grandkids, you know. So I'm

446
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: the grandkid, you know, and so and and and rightly,

447
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: so they saw how you could, you know, you use movie,

448
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: your your vision from generation to generation. So yeah, they

449
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: My grandmother was working for these people. She came up.

450
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: She was working for him. And one day the house

451
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: was hot, she's opening winness, she was dusting. She went

452
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: out on the porch. She had been making some tea

453
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: and she went out on the porch and sat there

454
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: and and it's cooling off. And a guy came by

455
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: and looked up at her and said, I know you.

456
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 1: You're from since kids and needles, you know, more like

457
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: I know yo you're from, saying she said, oh no,

458
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: you don't know me. He said, yeah, yeah, I see you,

459
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: ambassador aside from kidon, hear me. This, this is what

460
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: you don't know about me. You know, you don't know

461
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: my uh, the other voices that existed, you know, the

462
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: other people that are there that are you know. But anyway,

463
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: she they talked for a while, and so he said,

464
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: so you're working for these people. She said yeah. He

465
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: said well, you'll never working if you say you marry me,

466
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: you'll never work with anybody else. House what's your own? Yeah,

467
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: he came, he paid, he paid off the rest of

468
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: her dittrid situation, you know, and she never worked for

469
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: anybody else. And bore my bore you know, my my father,

470
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: my father, and my uncle's Okay, there are five kids

471
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: in the family. How many boys, how many girls? Where

472
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: are you in that hierarchy? And where are they today?

473
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm nailis uh and that in that particular part of

474
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: the family. Um they allays said were two boys and

475
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: three girls. One one of the one of the boys,

476
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: and one of the girls that are deceased. There are

477
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: three of us left in that part of the family.

478
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: When my my father, unfortunately was tragically killed in nineteen

479
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: fifty four in a in an accident with some machinery

480
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: in our backyard. And a number of years later my

481
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: mother remarried to a Jamaican man who came with three kids.

482
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: So there was eight of us and then they had

483
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: one in his nine and of that, uh, see what

484
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: we got. I think they're yeah four four us, yeah,

485
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: four or passed and if five still living And I'm

486
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: I'm the eldest. Your father, he made a musician fully

487
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: as a musician or a musician was more of a hobby. No,

488
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: he was a full He was full a musician and composer.

489
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: I was able to corroborate that with Ella Fitzgerald, who

490
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: I ran into at a concert she was having and

491
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: I was in Hawaii and a friend of mine said

492
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: told me that she was there and that she was

493
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: she had somebody that was working, um the stage and said, hey,

494
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: come on in if you could be quiet, you know,

495
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: nominal disturbance, you hear the sound check. So I was definitely.

496
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: My mother used to always talk about um, them talking

497
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: about my father is as the genius genius right, so um,

498
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: you know my mother could be dramatic, you know. So

499
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't say I didn't think. No, I

500
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: just didn't know I needed to improve that. There was

501
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: a year there, so finally got to go up and

502
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: meet meet Ella and I told her, you know what

503
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: my dad's name was, and she stopped and looked me

504
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: up and down. Oh my god, you are geniuses son.

505
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, hey, mom, wherever you are, you're right. Yeah.

506
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: So how old were you when you moved from New

507
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: York City to Springfield. Oh I don't remember that movie

508
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: because I was in my mom's arms. It was about

509
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: six six months. And what kind of kids were you

510
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: growing up? Were you popular? Were you're a loner? We

511
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: got to ask sports. Uh no, you know, the sports

512
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: were really big. But a lot of times that sports

513
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: with these guys was because they didn't have a dad,

514
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, so their coach became their sir, your dad.

515
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: I had a phomb, you know, we played catch, baseball,

516
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And they were really really

517
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: really I mean not that I didn't like the space

518
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: the sports guys, you know, um fact, just recently, well

519
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: a few years ago, before the pandemic, I ran into

520
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: Don Newcombe. You know, I remember having Don Newcomb training

521
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: guards right Don Newcomb glove you know, yeah, yeah, Nuke

522
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: got a particularly kind of glove to you know all,

523
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: you know like that. But not really, I wasn't really

524
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: really really in retrospect, I'm looking back, I'll tell you

525
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: what I would have really loved to do. I would

526
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: have loved to play rugby, I'm telling you, you know,

527
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: but it was it wasn't. It's a you know a

528
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: classic example of something that you didn't get close to

529
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: see what it was, and it had I've been more

530
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: involved in the Caribbean side of my family beyond you know,

531
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: like socially, in sports and all that kind of stuff,

532
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: because you know, we get to our baseball, which is

533
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, a voice a version of cricket. You know,

534
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: you don't that you know in the in the in

535
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: the Caribbean, guys play cricket. But it wasn't only to

536
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: a grown man that I was traveling around and it

537
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: got to go to England in Australia and New Zealand

538
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: and other places where cricket is played and got a

539
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: chance to sell U see a Test match and how

540
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: this thing works, you know, and go like, okay, there's

541
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: another way. But man, I loved I would have loved

542
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: to play rugby. I just love that game. And my

543
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: favorite team is the New Zealand All Black, particularly the

544
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: team during the years when they had that guy showing

545
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: a lambo. Man. I'll never forget it that I saw

546
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: this guy going down the field. He was eighteen years

547
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: old at the time. He had three defenders, one on

548
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: one leg, one guy around the waist, and another guy

549
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: trying to hold him around the neck. And he was

550
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: just plowing down the field. I was like, Okay, that's

551
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: a game. I'm like, I like that game a lot. Anyway, No,

552
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: I was. I was a lot of fun. I was interested.

553
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: And the big thing happened for me was when my

554
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: my mother, who yes, I say her mom came to

555
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: her marriage with a farm and two hundred acres and

556
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: that was an interesting thing to find out how that

557
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: all worked in the South at that time. But my

558
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: mother knew all that stuff. She grew up knowing you know,

559
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: little Howard growth things and you know, you know, grow

560
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: up you you know, raise animals and all that kind

561
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: of stuff. And then you know, through goring to college

562
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: and sophistications, he did all those things too. But that

563
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: was on top of a real basic, solid, real woman

564
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, who was he was totally accountable for everything

565
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: she was up to. And uh, you know, so you know,

566
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: all all that, all that served, all that served to

567
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: me make my life a really much You're a much

568
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: better place, you know. I mean I could go on

569
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: and on and on and on. We'll be all day

570
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: talking about it. So were you a good student? No,

571
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: not so good. Pretty good in the beginning, I say,

572
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: But after my dad passed. Uh, it was kind of

573
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: traumatized by you know what I mean, And I couldn't

574
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: think of I think it was music that got me

575
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: through it. And uh, you know, I mean it's sort

576
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: of like I go, like from the sixth grade to

577
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: the ninth grade. There's the only thing I could hear

578
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: in there. What if I look back over that time

579
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: is the music. And one thing that a teacher said

580
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: to me, not to me, said to a class, he said,

581
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: I think it was Mr. Crew and the math class.

582
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: He said, you know, and this may have been something

583
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: he was doing to try to inspire students to use

584
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: more their ability, but he said that you know, most

585
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: people never use more than ten percent of their ability

586
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: throughout their life, and and that they mostly hang out

587
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: somewhere around three and a half, five and a half

588
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: maybe six. And I was like, are you serious? I mean,

589
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: tell me there's nine out there where, only with people

590
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: who are trying to laugh at us, you know, because

591
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: who were from Africa and this is what they're dealing off. Well,

592
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I'm glad to hear that kind

593
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: of information because if there's nine, then I need to

594
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: be busy and I need to never ever be worried

595
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: about these fools who want to keep you down there?

596
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: Did you start realizing that's when you have a headache,

597
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: is when you try to go there to where somebody's

598
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: level is to communicate to him, Hey, here it is

599
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 1: the skies, the limit. You better go for it because

600
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: all you get is all you got. You got is

601
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: all you get, you know, and this is it. So

602
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: when did you start playing an instrument? Oh? When I

603
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: started sending it, you know. Then piano came somewhere around oh,

604
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: I say, seven cades eight maybe eight years, eight years old,

605
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 1: and teacher told my mother, you know, said said mildier,

606
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't waste my money on teaching him, try and

607
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: teach him how to play pio. She said, well, why

608
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: is that? He said, because he already wants to play

609
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: boogey woogie And once they get there, there ain't nothing

610
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: you can do for, you know. So anyway, I tried

611
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: that when piano tried clearing it for a while, um

612
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: and then uh uh trombone, h harmonica m M. And

613
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: then after the tragedy and my mother remarried. My stepfather

614
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: was a Jamaican and uh he unbeknownst to me came

615
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: to the house and he hid hire a guitar, and

616
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: he was trying to learn how to play in the closet.

617
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 1: And one day while the parents were out um making

618
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: market or shopping. Um well, I I was put in

619
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: charge of of the of the kids in the house

620
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: and so keep them busy. We were playing a great

621
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: game with hide and seek, and I hid in in

622
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: the hall clock clothes closet, coat closet and got way

623
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: back in there. Because it had the way it was

624
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: set up and built in the house, you could get

625
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: way back in the closet and even people moved the clothing,

626
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: they couldn't see you. So I moved back in there

627
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: and scooched way back in there, only to have my

628
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 1: back go up against this critics curves. My eyes open wined,

629
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: and go like, what what is this? You know, the

630
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: only thing that could be is is an instrument. So

631
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: I pulled the thing out. Oh my god, he's an

632
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: arch top de Ol silver tone. I think it was

633
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: guitar tobacco sunburst, you know, tobacco color was sunburst, you know,

634
00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: and all game over. You know, they can stay out

635
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: there forever. I didn't. I didn't even connect I couldn't

636
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: believe it, you know. And then I took it out

637
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: of the case and there was a doorway across from

638
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: the three ways three way. It was like, this is

639
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: the closet door, This is the door to the dining room,

640
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: This is the door to the placement. I go in

641
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: there and pull that door closed and to put this

642
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: thing out, and I could hear guitar music in my head.

643
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: I knew that they were doing something. There's some Spanish music.

644
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You know,

645
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: you heard the different things. But how did they make

646
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: music out of this system? I couldn't figure it out.

647
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: And so I would, you know, break the teeth out

648
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: of my mother's old combs, you know, and try to

649
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: I knew that they used some kind of pick that

650
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: much I did fingers, you know, chords. I don't know nothing,

651
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: and so yeah, so I would go into that cellar

652
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: door led down to the basement and sit there. And

653
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: one day I'm sitting there totally spaced out over the

654
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: door opens up. My stepfather says, well, I see you

655
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: phoned it. And he never he never challenged me to

656
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: put this thing back. It's it's is, don't touch it,

657
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: leave it alone, don't leave the house with it. Never hasslee.

658
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: And then you know, I mean, I mean you talk

659
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: about luck. This is why I stay on my purpose

660
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: because you know, it's a gift from your ancestors, you know,

661
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: when they send you here, you know, to do your work.

662
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: And most people don't think that way, and that's too bad.

663
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: They have another guind of life, maybe worse than them.

664
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: What works for me is that certain things that'll happen.

665
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: My next door neighbor moved in his brother, older brother

666
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: and sister in law. We're friends of my dad's and

667
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: my mom's, you know, and he moved in next door.

668
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: He and his younger broke. Then next story was family

669
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: and fourteen from North Carolina, Lynn Perry, Lynn, Lynn Winner

670
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: and Leonard Perry. We used to call them Lynwood. The

671
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: man can play guitar, yea, no one can play guitar.

672
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: He played that really route beautiful blues guitar from down

673
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: there and in North Carolina. And you know, over the fence.

674
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: One day we just started talking, you know, and you know,

675
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: boys bragging, oto bragging, Well what you do well, man,

676
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: I do this, well? What about you. I do that. Well,

677
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: you got a bicycle, Yeah, I got a wheel. You

678
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: know I got a wheel too. You know. You play baseball, Yeah,

679
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: I get here, I catch well. Oh yeah, you got

680
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: a glove. Yeah, I gotta glove. You got a ball, yeah,

681
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: well I got a batman. I got a glove with.

682
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're going down the lockdown streets. Then you hit

683
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: something to me, I hit something to you. You know,

684
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You play marbles, yeah, so far he saw.

685
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: Well I play guitar. This is what he says. And

686
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: I said, well, I gotta guitar. He said, well, let

687
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 1: me see that guitar. So I went in the house

688
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: and brought it out, you know. And he looked at

689
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: me and said, you got a pair of flies. And

690
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: I said yeah, so we've got a pair of flies.

691
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: And he unwinds the wound g string and then he

692
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: proceeds to take it all the winding off the string,

693
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: and he listen to me. He said, that is how

694
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: you make it talk. Okay, that's the next door. His

695
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: brother in law was Arthur big boy credits. Yeah next door,

696
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, Oh as good as that, guess. Mississippi

697
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: still comes in down the block and around the corner,

698
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, was the Nichols family, and you would not

699
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: even believe they were from stove All Plantation, Mississippi. Okay.

700
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: So I could literally go up the street and here

701
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: here Junior Nichols or Ernest Ernest with a guitar player.

702
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: Junior could play something, but Ernest set up and play

703
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: boogie schilling like he was John Lee Oker, you know.

704
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: And this was and not only that Ernest was Ernest

705
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: was Jake a car radio, a battery and Jerry rig

706
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: D speech speakers, and he'd have an amplifier, you know,

707
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: con turned up around, turned down cock, I mean, had

708
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: great song and he became a really a really a

709
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: great guitar player. He's no longer with us, Yeah, and

710
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: neither is Lynn Perry. But those two guys, you know,

711
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: mostly Lynn, you know, give me my initiation into the

712
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: music that I love. I love was I was love

713
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: Jimmy Read Love Love Love Love Jimmy Read. I canna

714
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: play that music, you know forever, still their songs of his.

715
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: I still want to play workout with the band, y know,

716
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: amongst them, as like to call Little Ray. I never

717
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think only the last Bose

718
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: album that um Mick Jagger and them guys did. They

719
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: did little Ray hard tune to do before, as simple

720
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: as it is. But yeah, you know, so I got

721
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: to play guitar and you know, doing this and singing

722
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: with little singing groups and whatnot. You know, I think

723
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: the big you know, and listening to lots of music. Yeah,

724
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, all this is coming on. Not that I

725
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: knew what their name was, but the Weavers with Goodnight Irene,

726
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Terriers, y know, the all these different

727
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: and you know, Harry Belafonte big in our house, you know,

728
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: because so stepfather bringing you know, Mento, you know, and

729
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: all those kinds of music. You know, there were Trinity

730
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: Dadiens in our town, you know, people from Auckland, you know,

731
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, Cuba. You know. So it was a lot.

732
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: There was a lot to listen to, a lot to feel,

733
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: you know. But I felt really strong about the blues,

734
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, represented decide that my mother

735
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: game bro you know South. So did you play out

736
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: when you were in high school or was it just

737
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: a hobby? No? I never was a hobby. I mean,

738
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: um uh no, not not too not too much, not

739
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: too much fun. I mean, I think we said we

740
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: had some more singing groups. Was out playing get to

741
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: For me, it was like a personal thing, you know,

742
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: not even a hobby, but something that I was trying

743
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: to find where that where you where you where the

744
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: line was that you could continue, know, just get in

745
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: there and get involved and be continue to move forward,

746
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: you know. And I'd say that one of the big

747
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: one of the big moves came uh when I was

748
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, I studied, I studied uh cat of my

749
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: husbandry and minor inventionary science and achronomy when I had

750
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: dairy technology when I went to the un University of Massachusetts.

751
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: And I also had three years from tenth grade to

752
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: the twelfth cade in vocational and agriculture high school classes.

753
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: So you know, I had I had a different balance

754
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: than a lot of the other kids. Did you know.

755
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: We didn't have to be in school until the crops

756
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: were in, like say early late late October, early November,

757
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: and we got out of school um uh in March,

758
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: so you start plowing preparing the lands. I like that

759
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: a lot. Three months whintos off of him April, May

760
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: and June, you know, with off of the year or

761
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: maybe this September October anyway, so you didn't have to

762
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: go to school that much, maybe a little bit over

763
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: four months a year. I love that. In the rest

764
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: of the time, you know, you're out on tractors around

765
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: the animals up in the country. You know, I'm a

766
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: gonna say something about my my mom and dad. Probably

767
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: the thing that really let me out to the country

768
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: a lot was that my dad used to take my

769
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: mom out to the country and there and we all

770
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: go take driving the country, you know, you leave out

771
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: and they all of a sudden everything opened up, spaces

772
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: opened up, more room between farms, you know, gardens, you know, vegetables, hands.

773
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: You know. My mother would go out and they buy big,

774
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: big push your baskets and create some corn and beans

775
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: and all that. And she come back and and we

776
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: help her, you know, put you know, snap the beans

777
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: and do this and help her prepare stuff. And she

778
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,479
Speaker 1: had she put a lot of you know, food up

779
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: for the weather she can't, did a lot of cannon

780
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: and made jellies, and you know, that's that kind of

781
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 1: stuff where I want, I wanted just just a wonderful

782
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: person in terms of you know, nourishing. Her family had

783
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: had a really you know, positive and and delectable level,

784
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: you know. And in fact, I remember sixteen when I

785
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: started to work and go other places. So I had

786
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: to really tell myself, now, you know, you're not gonna

787
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: find it like like you got it here at all

788
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: everyone else, So you know, just just be nice and

789
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: enjoy which eat what you can eat. You eat what

790
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: you what you like. So did you want to go

791
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: to college or family said you should go to college?

792
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: And how did you end up studying agriculture? Was that

793
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: just something you picked? You said, no, I want to

794
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: be a farmer? Mm hmm. I looked at it from

795
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: the point answer accept with different questions evolved about farming.

796
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: I saw that African people and and our most cultural

797
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: situation agriculture. Music. Agriculture was one of the reasons that

798
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 1: we were in the Western hemisphere. This is why people

799
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: picked us to be here. Music was something that we

800
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: brought along with us, which is what we did. And

801
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: that was the old impact I was telling you know,

802
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: the hard drive was erased, but some people do enough

803
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: to tell their children about who they were before the

804
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: hard drive got raised. For most people, so I was

805
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: aware of myself and and my dad had worked, and

806
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: part of the reason that we lost him was that

807
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: he was the type of person that stood up. I

808
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: didn't care what the consequences was. This might have been

809
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: a better place where he could have going along to

810
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: get along, but on principal he couldn't do it, and

811
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: that wasn't who he was. Stood up they fired him.

812
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: He was working on trying to um create a h

813
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: what do you want to call? You want to create

814
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: a his own business, independent business. You wanted to have

815
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: a contracting business. That's why I had have you have

816
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: you equipment around the stuff that busually you know, um,

817
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 1: you know, cause his demand and those are the kind

818
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: of energies that were passed to me about, you know,

819
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: being independent and doing anything. But the knowledge that you know,

820
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: music was something that we did. We used use it

821
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: to make our our long walks go, our work go,

822
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: all of those things. None of this was lost on

823
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: the colonialists, you know, none of this was lost on

824
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: the dominant culture who was building building themselves up, you know,

825
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: the Western hemisphere, you know. So but for me, knowing

826
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: that these things were, we're something that we were predisposed to.

827
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: At first, I wasn't interested in going to college. I

828
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: felt I could go to the um the elders and

829
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: I could, um, you know, learned from them. But then

830
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: something came across my mind said, well, wait a minute,

831
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: maybe there's something here that you might be able to use.

832
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 1: And why while you're young And as my mother used

833
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: to say, father used to say, you don't have child

834
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: nor chick. You know what, you know, you it might

835
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: get smart thing to go and do this college thing.

836
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: And and then you know, by that time, my stepfather

837
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: was saying that I look because I said I didn't.

838
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: I wasn't interested in Lord and and not on yet,

839
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 1: I was not interested in Gordon for what it was

840
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: that they wanted me to go for, you know, not

841
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: that they did anything that, but I was just saying

842
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: that if I'm gonna go, it's gonna be one I

843
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: want to go for, you know. And uh So by

844
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: that point in time, um, I had made a decision.

845
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: I think between the seventh and the ninth grade to

846
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: the eighth grade I made and ask about, you know,

847
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: wanting to go to a vocation agriculture school. And they said, hey,

848
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 1: well you asked the eighth grade in the ninth grade,

849
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: you still want to do it. Well, we'll work on that,

850
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: and they did, and I didn't get to go. And

851
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: but now I'm going to college. And you know, my

852
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: idea was that, you know these two things, music in agriculture.

853
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: People are never gonna never gonna not have it, never

854
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: gonna not use it, never never gonna be a part

855
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: of it. And you don't like today it'd be you

856
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,240
Speaker 1: raise organic vegetables, organic meats, you or you know, fruits,

857
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, all those kind of things. You know, some

858
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: of the information about this with things that she'd find

859
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: out back in those days, you know. And so yeah,

860
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: you know that I figured that, hey, either I could

861
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: make a living, you know, being in agriculture, play music

862
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: on the weekend, make a living in music, and maybe

863
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: by myself a farm. You know. I just was like

864
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 1: it was important to me to be my own boss

865
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: and to be independent, made my own decision. So you're

866
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: going to you Massey Amhurst in the sixties, relatively early sixties,

867
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: but it's still a turbulent time. The folks scene is happening.

868
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 1: What was it like in college? And you also started

869
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: to play out when you were in college for money, right, Yeah,

870
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: we did a little bit of that before, but it

871
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: was only mostly like kind of do up, you know,

872
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: you're not kind of like four or five musicians of

873
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: the band, you know, a group of singing, maybe out

874
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: of piano player, maybe one of the guys playing guitar.

875
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, you know I did that, But yeah, I

876
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: didn't really start playing off. I started playing out mostly

877
00:56:53,239 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: in the in the college set, you know, smith Hammer's College, Um,

878
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: rinsel Ere, uh code you know, I'm not cool game

879
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: cornell Um, Dartmouth Jops, you know u UM, you know Live,

880
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, University of Vermont, you know a lot of

881
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: different prep schools. You know, how are you getting the gigs? Oh,

882
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: it's really cool. We had um there was a band

883
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: called the Lectures and it was to rock and Wayne

884
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: Elliott and a guy named Marcel Crudel and uh piano

885
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: player damn e is that guy's name? He was Steve.

886
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't know Steve's last name. Then there was a

887
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: saxophone player named Ray a sueser and um a drummer

888
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: named Don Littlefield who was a business major and Don um. Oh,

889
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: and then they had a singer I cannot think of

890
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: win his name was. He flunked out. So I was

891
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: up in the music room met fiddling around with the piano,

892
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: and by then, you know, a bunch of us and

893
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: bumped into one another on campus, found out who likes

894
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: to play music? Who I'm played? You know, we we

895
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: have a couple of times. This is when first cut

896
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: on campus. A bunchet us got together and the girls

897
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: had to be in I think by seven o'clock, six

898
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: o'clock and no visitors in a dorman. They were set

899
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: up in a kind of a natural campa theater. There's

900
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: tour I think there's two four four or six you

901
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: know blocks um dormitories for the girls. And so a

902
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: bunch of us would get out there with bongos and

903
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: guitars and corn monicas and mandolin's and fiddles and you know,

904
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: call a tune and play it and you know kind

905
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: of like entertain you know. But they had a music

906
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: room that had three pianos in it, so I was

907
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: I had to figure that got a piano here, got

908
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: a lot of time to really kind of work on

909
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: some of these tunes. So by then some guys that

910
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: see me around playing and this, uh, this guy Don Littlefield,

911
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: the the drummer and business major, came in and said, hey,

912
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean I hear you you you're you're a singer,

913
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: and I said, well, sing a little bit and play.

914
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: He said, well, look, our our lead singer flumped out

915
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: this semester. You know, we've got some gigs. You know, um,

916
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: maybe you can come down and we could play something together,

917
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: you know. So I, you know, dressed up and came

918
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: down to this fraternity house. And it was kind of

919
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: hard for me to play with you know, two guitars

920
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: and no bass, piano player, saxophone, and a drummer. I

921
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: had not really heard that kind of music where you

922
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: didn't you didn't have a drum Well that's not true.

923
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: That can go without a drummer, but that music that

924
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: they were trying to play definitely needed a drummer in it.

925
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 1: But and the bass player. I'm not a drummer, but

926
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: a bass player. That was what was missing. And so

927
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, they, uh, I came down there. So then

928
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: I started making started bringing all the material that I

929
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 1: knew that they didn't know, all this R and D

930
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: and you know, oh jump blues, and they then I said,

931
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: you know what, we need a bass player. And they

932
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: found this guy, Jack brand Well. I didn't think much

933
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: of him at first had terrible sounding bass, and so

934
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: then oh just terrible. It's okay, I mean it could

935
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: have sounded good. What you needed to take it to

936
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: Louthier and have the next straight now and you know

937
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: the things set up on it. Um. But anyway, I

938
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: suggested to those guys they needed to get some Fender,

939
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 1: some Fender guitars, you know. And so eventually we put

940
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: together a kiddy with you know, the gigs that we

941
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: were making, and Marcel bought a Fender guitar and Bay

942
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: and amp and Jack Moran bought a Fender bass. Bam.

943
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: Sounded like new money. But anyway, Don Littlefield was the

944
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: business major and he made the band like kind of

945
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: like his his um you know. Well anyway, he's he

946
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: was a businessman. And our big move, big move came

947
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: when he went and played went and attended of Smith

948
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: College mixer, which gathered all of the men's colleges on

949
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: the northeast, and sin of you know flyers out to

950
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: them saying they've got this big mixer, come on up,

951
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So all these guys came up and

952
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: he went and passed out our business guard. You know,

953
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: rock and roll goes the Electra's rock and roll goes

954
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: to college with the secret ingredient, and I was the

955
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: secret ingredient. And uh and we had like three three

956
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: incredible years of playing music and traveling around New England.

957
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: Got out as far as spenn State. You know some

958
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: things in New Jersey, you know, Connecticut, you know, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine,

959
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: and upstate New York. As I say, know a little

960
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: bit of New Jersey and in Pennsylvania. So yeah, a

961
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: little Field got all the gigs. Manily, we did well.

962
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: He did really good, did very well. So whatever happened

963
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: to Little Field, Uh he became a minister. I was

964
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: just talking to him not too long ago. He didn't

965
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: he didn't follow Almost almost none of those guys followed

966
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: music because they were they played music aside for what

967
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: you do. Marcel Crudel was a forestry and landscape landscaping guy.

968
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: Um Ray Susan was an English teacher. Um Um Jack

969
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: Moran he was. He ended up being a PD a pediatrician.

970
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: Um see. Another guy was um Chucky Reid. He played

971
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: saxophone with us. He was a uh pizzed major. The

972
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: guys eve he was a poet. Nobody knew where he went,

973
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, and went like that. Okay, so you graduated

974
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: from college then what by then? I was playing music

975
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: and and um, you know I'm not only not only

976
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: was I dealing with with the music that we were

977
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: playing in college, but you know, I, you know, I

978
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: just as I said, decided that whenever I was doing

979
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: music would be on the side or in the front. However,

980
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: I was going to continue to play music because there's

981
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: things that wanted to learn. And I didn't care whether

982
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: it was I was popular at him or not, or

983
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: it could make a living at it or not, you know,

984
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: whichever whichever worked. And so yeah, I got I was

985
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: working a lot up in in um In and around Boston,

986
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: and uh, I got myself at the age it you know,

987
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: Manny green Hill and Full Core Productions, and he got

988
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: lots of gigs for me, you know. And UH hooked

989
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: up with this guy Jessie leeken Kaide and came out

990
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: to California because he was playing some music from Roy Couter.

991
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: Yeah it's just sounded too much like blind Board Fuller,

992
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: It's right. And I found out he was like seventeen

993
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 1: years old. Who is this kid? All right? Well, we

994
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: need to go again, we get him out here, I

995
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: guess we have to go to California and that's what

996
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: we did. So when you were playing after college? Was

997
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: it a solo actor? Do you have beans? What was it? No?

998
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: Pretty much a due me and this other guy Jessie Lincoln.

999
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: The tourists played guitar, somethime. I played harmonica t r

1000
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: sometimes dim So what year do you move to l A?

1001
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: And how do you end up finding and how do

1002
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: you end up finding Roy couter guys? As I said,

1003
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: the guy that that I uh um hung out with

1004
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: up in Cambridge, know him Capron California, know him and

1005
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: could play some stuff that he learned from saying, if

1006
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: somebody could teach you that. I'm listening to all these

1007
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: other guys around here, and they know sounding like that,

1008
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: that sounds like the music. So you moved to l A.

1009
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: Where are you living? Do you immediately start playing out?

1010
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: I mean you need money to live? What's going on?

1011
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: I had seen I had a paper route that had

1012
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: six hundred, six hundred papers every morning, and like I said,

1013
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: I had a garden dog wife, you know, a couple

1014
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: of guitars and banjo, you know, and uh some harmonicas

1015
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, just about make the rent, you know, and uh,

1016
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm really happy, you know, dizzy and listen to a

1017
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: lot of music, went through a lot of music. Used

1018
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: to work at the Ash Grove in Los Angeles. You

1019
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: know it's the bouncer, doorman, cedar greeter sometimes the open

1020
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: enact when somebody didn't show up. How many steps were

1021
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: there before the Rising Sun's steps? How many other bands

1022
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: were there? Or you were played? That was it from

1023
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: the other band? I mean Jesse, Jesse and Jessie and

1024
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 1: we we What happened was that Ryan was connected with

1025
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: a place called McCabe's guitar store, and McCabe's there was

1026
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: a something called the Teenage Fair that was happening here

1027
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and the big players were we're studying

1028
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: and share and that's what was the big thing going

1029
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: on then. And maybe Red Bone Pat and Lolly Vegas

1030
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: you know him, and no different other people around town.

1031
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: And we got to be a part of the Martin

1032
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: Guitar Companies booth that Martin it took a little shot

1033
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: at trying to make electric guitars and uh so Jesse

1034
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:26,719
Speaker 1: Lee played drugs. Gary Marker who we met played bass

1035
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: where I played slide guitar. I played guitar with harmonica

1036
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:36,679
Speaker 1: on Iraq and we just played and played the grooves

1037
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: we knew and that was that was one in the

1038
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: net and the next thing. Uh yeah, we started pulling

1039
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 1: different people in just to try to create this group.

1040
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: First drummer was Ed Cassidy, who went on to play

1041
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: with Spirit and man also was the oldest living rock

1042
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 1: drummer for some time. And yeah, you know, and then

1043
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: we started recording. How did you get your deal with Columbia?

1044
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: They came out to see us artist, Uh, you know,

1045
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: I thought we had potential or maybe we're we were

1046
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: too much competition for certain bands out there, and they

1047
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: put us on the label and just you know, we

1048
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the first album never came out,

1049
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, so you never know what that's what they did.

1050
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: I noticed what they did with the Beatles, you know,

1051
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: side of every possible group that would give them any

1052
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: competition and then shove them and then put those guys

1053
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: out there, you know. So I don't know, I never

1054
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: I don't sit around and worry about conspiracy theories. Is

1055
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: that we you know, we we found ourselves in the

1056
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: studio making music, you know, but we also found on

1057
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: a not of you know, music business politics, craziness that

1058
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: didn't have nothing to do with music. So how disappointing

1059
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: and disillusioning was it to get a deal, make a

1060
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: record and have the record never come out? Um? Hey,

1061
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: uh it was. It was disappointing, but that was just

1062
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: that was just part for the chorus. My friend, they

1063
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: have things that were certainly certainly a lot worse. I mean,

1064
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't that that wasn't like that all we rolled

1065
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: off our backs, but you know, we had you had

1066
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 1: you had to make it, you had to go forward. Yeah,

1067
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: And so how did you end up as a solo

1068
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: artist on Columbia? Call up the correct president of the

1069
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: record company and told him I was on his label,

1070
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: and I was signed with a group, and I was

1071
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: signed as an individual, and I had some ideas. Called

1072
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: up climb dave Is. Talked to his secretary, told her

1073
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: what I told her my story. She said, well, all right,

1074
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 1: she says, Mr Davis isn't here now, but I'll give

1075
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: him your message maybe through. Two or three hours later

1076
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: he called me back. I spoke to him, told him

1077
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: what I was, what I was up to him. What

1078
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to do, you know. Um, and you know,

1079
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: maybe I made a mistakes saying I wanted to produce

1080
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: my own music, you know, and you know, but that

1081
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: was the point he said that. Kylie said that, well,

1082
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: that wasn't their policy. You know, after after the Silence

1083
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: of the Universe, came back with a you know, it

1084
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: wasn't their policy. But if if, if it'll be okay,

1085
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: send out they was, you know, put the money to

1086
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 1: send out some producers. And first one they sent out,

1087
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: we hit it off. And that was David Rubens heard

1088
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: from him today. David, Oh, yeah, hear from out a

1089
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: regular basis. Yeah, good guy. Yeah, and and and we

1090
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: got involved in first he had to figure out what

1091
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: was happening and how much he had to be involved

1092
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 1: in putting the music together. And then he began to

1093
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: realize that, no, this guy knows what he wants to do,

1094
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: and he left me alone. He did the business. I mean,

1095
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,879
Speaker 1: you know, everybody talks about uh jay Z and uh

1096
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,680
Speaker 1: Damon dash Us being one guy did the business and

1097
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: one guy did the music, and that's the modern version

1098
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: of it. But David Rubister did it back in those days.

1099
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: You know, he pushed pushed the nay of his artist

1100
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: students to the company because he knew what was going on. Yeah,

1101
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: so the album comes out, what's it like on your

1102
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 1: side of the fence. I only know the consumer side

1103
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:50,560
Speaker 1: of the fence. Well, I'm glad that, I'm glad. I'm glad. Well.

1104
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: First of all, um, I was looking for a really

1105
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 1: good guitar player, you know, somebody who I could translate

1106
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: these old songs too, and really was coming down it

1107
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 1: with a fresh approach. And that guy turned out to

1108
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: be Jesse Davis, native American brother commitson incredible guitar, used

1109
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: to play with Zappa, yeah, amongst amongst others. And uh

1110
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: he heard him and said, okay one and I wouldn't

1111
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: play play with Roy Coonter knew he could play too,

1112
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: So now I need a drummer and a bass player. Um.

1113
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: And I heard a guy named James Broadway Thomas, and

1114
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: you know, and then a guy named Sandy Conical who's

1115
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:57,799
Speaker 1: playing with a band called General Soul. Um, James James Thomas,

1116
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: Jimmie Thomas's played with like Big Mama Thornton, Uh with

1117
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 1: Albert King. Um. Oh, the guys they can't sit down.

1118
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: Um anyway, Uh, yeah, he played with some really cool guys,

1119
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: and uh so I thought that, you know, he he'd

1120
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: be a good bass player, and he and he was,

1121
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: and and that's all I had. And they had some

1122
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 1: They gave me some days to come and play, and

1123
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: I came into the studio and brought the material that

1124
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: I had in my head. Nobody had ever heard anything, right,

1125
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: was probably the only one that heard heard any of

1126
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: the original material from the original artists. But what we

1127
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: did that day was something different, you know. And so

1128
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: I just would dictate parts the way I wanted the

1129
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: drummer to play and the way I wanted the bass

1130
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: player to play. Never said anything to Ride, never said

1131
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: anything to Davis, because I knew they could play and

1132
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,560
Speaker 1: set it up and that squaw you here on that

1133
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:07,560
Speaker 1: leaving trumble when that harmonica comes in. There is nobody

1134
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: else who plays it like that. You can listen every

1135
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: harmonica player you know. And it all came from something

1136
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: that Lewis Myers taught me. He said, he said, he said,

1137
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 1: you're real good, he said, but you're playing too many notes.

1138
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: He said, listen to this. He said, I'm gonna play

1139
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 1: to you one more time, one time, and I'm not

1140
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: gonna play it again, and he plays something in my

1141
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: ear that it's a signature in my monica playing to

1142
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 1: this day playing octaves. How long did it take to

1143
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: make this record? A few days? So the record comes out?

1144
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: You sold your own case, just Clive Davis? Uh, what happened?

1145
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: They put you on the road to support it? And

1146
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: what was you know? Yeah, I mean a little bit.

1147
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: It came dribbling in. We weren't We weren't. Really, I wasn't.

1148
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: You know, it's Ahl playing blues for guys who had

1149
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: been in the record business. You know, you know I didn't.

1150
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: I wasn't playing whatever the new hip black music was.

1151
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 1: Not that I couldn't, not that I didn't listen to it,

1152
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 1: and I thought that I didn't support those artists. You know.

1153
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: Um but um, you know, um, we kind of got

1154
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: got in where we we got in where they finished in.

1155
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 1: You know, we did some stuff. You know, we're in

1156
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 1: the you know, the the raggedy pan, the raggedy panel

1157
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: truck tours. You know, looking at the street, going underneath

1158
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,600
Speaker 1: the cars you're driving down the road. You know, we

1159
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: did all that. You know, a little by a little

1160
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: by little got better, got better, got better. Probably got

1161
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: the second record down. It was that great. Let's talk

1162
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: about the second record. The second record they let you

1163
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: do alone and there's a lot more original material on

1164
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: the second record. Yeah, that was the idea. And so

1165
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: had you always been writing? Um yeah, attempting to anyway?

1166
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: So on the second album, she caught the Katie, which

1167
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: of course was in the Blues Brothers movie. So can

1168
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: you tell us about writing that song and about getting

1169
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: it in the movie? Um, yes, addressing everybody likes that

1170
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 1: because because all of that, I like she Contuccatie too.

1171
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: But I'm absolutely really there. I'm I'm using pretty even

1172
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: about everything. I love all of all the tunes of

1173
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: that record. You know, but you know, as an artist,

1174
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: you always that's something you like, it, something you don't like,

1175
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 1: not doubt like, but you could wish you could do it.

1176
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 1: Go back in there and do those two notes better anyway?

1177
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:58,799
Speaker 1: Um yo, Oh she caught to Katie. That's really interesting.

1178
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: See she show on me something. Um, you know, like

1179
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: you said as a consumer, Um yeah, I mean the

1180
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 1: tune itself. I'd heard it from a guy named Steve Man,

1181
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: and he didn't know where he got it from. So

1182
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: I had sleepy John Sts and Yank Rachel out to

1183
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: my house and they were there for maybe a month

1184
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 1: month and a half while they were working, you know,

1185
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: got working working out here on the West Coast. And

1186
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 1: I was talking to Yank one day and he was

1187
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: and we were just still this men talking and uh say, yeah, man,

1188
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: my second wife you know, no, no, my first wife

1189
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. Yeah, she called to k and

1190
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 1: left me a mule to ride. I said, I said,

1191
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:56,800
Speaker 1: I said where. He said why? You know, he said,

1192
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: I've been saying that something that since I was a

1193
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: little youngster. So I realized that there was a lot

1194
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: of tunes out there that didn't have any yo direct

1195
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: uh composer. You know, like if if Big Joe nine

1196
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: string Big Joe had had done the thing, he wouldn't

1197
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 1: put out baby, Baby, Please Don't Go. You know, that

1198
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 1: was his tool. But you know, he didn't copyright it,

1199
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: so a lot of people got to play it, and

1200
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: they got to go into public domain anyway, So this

1201
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:34,680
Speaker 1: song was in public domain, and uh, you know, it

1202
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: was up for grabs. So I put a lot of

1203
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: different lyrics on it. And and remember the lyrics that

1204
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: he anked it, so you know, I went into partnership

1205
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: on the composer, the composer of that song when he

1206
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: ain't Grachel and he was able to say both his

1207
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 1: daughter to nursing school and nursing college and his granddaughter

1208
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: to college on that on the strength of that record alone.

1209
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: And as far as getting it in the Blues Brothers movie,

1210
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: Tackery and Beluci called me up and I said, hey,

1211
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 1: we want to do your your your your tune in

1212
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: the movie, he said, and we want to make sure

1213
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 1: we ask it. Would that be all right? Said? Hey,

1214
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: go for it? Okay. At this point, do you still

1215
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 1: own your own publishing? You still do it? And do

1216
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 1: you ever receive any record royalties? Are you still in

1217
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: the red with these record companies? Never? Well, I don't

1218
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 1: know what I'm in. I just know that over the

1219
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: years I've I've received royalties, But the record I know

1220
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: that that the the the way it works nowadays, it

1221
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 1: probably isn't as good as it used to be. Okay,

1222
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:01,839
Speaker 1: So now you go act to working with David Rubenson.

1223
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: How did you decide to do that? No, I didn't

1224
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: go I was always working with him. I worked with

1225
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: him for the basically mm hmm, pretty much up until

1226
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,560
Speaker 1: for about the first five records, you know, tis the

1227
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 1: Home Natural Blues, Giant Step, um the real thing, and

1228
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: Happy just to be like I am? And then Sounder,

1229
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:35,719
Speaker 1: Who's so Gooden Bluze? Uh excuse uh, Sounder Recycling the Blues?

1230
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: Whoso Gooden Blues? I started, I started producing all those

1231
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 1: on my own, and then from there on I produced

1232
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 1: everything up until um well about Yeah, okay, so you

1233
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 1: put out a double album Take a Giant Step. Now,

1234
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 1: the Monkeys were huge and even though they didn't write

1235
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 1: the song was a Golfing Kings song. Were you aware

1236
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: of that version? How did you decide to cut Take

1237
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 1: a Giant Step? Terry Melcher, who was Marty Melcher and

1238
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: Doris day Son was given a job of being a

1239
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: producer at staff producer at Columbia Records when the Rising

1240
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 1: Suns were put on the Columbia label. First It's they

1241
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: brought out Alan Step to try to record us, and

1242
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 1: he couldn't make any sense of it, and then they

1243
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 1: brought Terry Melcher, and Melcher brought Giant Step. Yeah you

1244
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: know with the monkeys, I mean, right and okay, and

1245
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 1: so we tried to cut maybe a little bit more

1246
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,560
Speaker 1: stronger rock with a little bit of R and B

1247
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: energy in it, and you know, um and cut it

1248
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 1: with the rising suns. But one time, when I'm saying,

1249
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 1: while I was singing, I sartously, you know what, this

1250
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,400
Speaker 1: song would sound really great if it was song slower,

1251
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 1: you know, and I get the mind of a jazz musician,

1252
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: you know, and I didn't realize that's what it was.

1253
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,679
Speaker 1: You know, they'll take a song and turn it into

1254
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: a ballad, you know, rearrange it, you know, free to

1255
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 1: do that this music. So yeah, I just change it up,

1256
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 1: put it in the temple that I put it in.

1257
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:43,719
Speaker 1: It sounded great. Yeah. So was there any blowback about

1258
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: wanting to do a double album from the company if

1259
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: there was. If there was, I'm sure that David Rubinson

1260
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 1: covered it and it never got back to me. Okay,

1261
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 1: how do you end up making the famous live album

1262
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 1: with the multi tubas with Howard Johnson. It's got all

1263
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: those tubas and it's also cut lot. Why Why does

1264
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: everybody freak out when when somebody's when somebody comes to

1265
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 1: creative and constantly is creating, is as if they think

1266
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: that they know that they can't be this much. You

1267
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 1: gotta stop at some point you know, Oh, don't are

1268
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: you kidding me? Oh, here's another one. I never heard this.

1269
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't get I don't get it. You know this

1270
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 1: this is this is America, the land or free. This

1271
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: is opportunity. So I'm taking opportunity to Opportunity comes knocking

1272
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: and I'm I show up. It shows up, and everybody

1273
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: goes like, oh my god, how did that happen? You

1274
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: got you gotta imagine it from my point of view, Okay,

1275
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 1: because you've got more, you got more, You got more

1276
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 1: folks on your side of the pends. Who are who are?

1277
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Just there goes that confounded tig wall again, Wells, was

1278
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 1: there any pressure for sale? And did you feel an obligation?

1279
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 1: We're just following your muse or where you worrying? And

1280
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: I was, no, I wasn't a mine if I wash it?

1281
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: Worried about commerciality if those guys here play some of

1282
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: that garbage that they put out there, what you you

1283
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: know you understand me. It's just here's the clear here's

1284
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:21,680
Speaker 1: the clear, clear clearing presiety. Those guys could think that

1285
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: that garbage that they were putting out there, and I'm

1286
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 1: not calling the names, you know, is at that and

1287
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:30,639
Speaker 1: that what I was doing with garbage, and it couldn't

1288
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: go out there and have the same movement. You know,

1289
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on inside the business,

1290
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,639
Speaker 1: where people blocking it or people keeping it down, because

1291
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 1: now everybody acts it's like, oh my god, you can't

1292
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:44,560
Speaker 1: imagine what it was like to me. You know, you

1293
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 1: were my savior, you saved, you saved my parents marriage,

1294
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 1: Gariet step. I mean, on and on and on and

1295
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: on and on, and I go like, okay, and here

1296
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 1: I was scuffling and scrambling and spending time away from

1297
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 1: my family, trying to make a living, you know, and

1298
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm listening to this garbage that they're they're putting all

1299
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 1: the money behind it. Weren't putting the money behind me,

1300
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 1: and like they would put them behind the other guys.

1301
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: I just said, you know what, hey, if that's what

1302
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 1: it is, that's too bad. That is not a reason

1303
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: for you to stop playing good music. You know, why

1304
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 1: what am I gonna do compromise myself? You know, it's

1305
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 1: like and you know, and be a whole for bad music.

1306
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: I don't think so. You know, so whatever whatever they said,

1307
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 1: they never got it never got to me. I mean,

1308
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: little things like, well, I think that you know, you don't,

1309
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 1: you're not really a black artist. I was like, oh really, okay,

1310
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: well tell that to the Africans that all come and

1311
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: have my records, or the Jamaicans or the trunt Adians

1312
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: or the Brazilian You tell me about that, you know,

1313
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: And of course they have no, They have never had

1314
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 1: an answer. You know. What it is is that you

1315
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:01,640
Speaker 1: know the A lot of it is is that I

1316
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: show you show people flat out that it's about independent thought,

1317
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: and that's not what they were looking. They wanted people

1318
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 1: who would go along to get along. I've never been

1319
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: that guy. I'm not. It's not gonna happen. My kids

1320
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 1: don't do it either. Okay, let's go sideways a little bit.

1321
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: I was talking to Bonnie Read and the third album

1322
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 1: Taking My Time she was making with Lowell George, and

1323
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 1: Lowell wanted to play all the slide parts. He said

1324
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 1: no way, got rid of him and said, she called

1325
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 1: you and brought you into help making the record. Does

1326
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 1: that you remember that experience experienced that John Hall called

1327
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: me up okay and asked me to help out, And yeah,

1328
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: he ultimately got certain credit, but she really played up

1329
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: that you were used a big part of that occurred. Yeah,

1330
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 1: I was, And what is the special sauce that you bring?

1331
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I never stood still around looking at

1332
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 1: myself in the room full of mirrors. Okay, So how

1333
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 1: do you end up switching from Columbia Warner Brothers? Yeah,

1334
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: I kind of got I kinda got dry, tired of

1335
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: what felt like they were card They weren't. They weren't

1336
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 1: really putting their their energy into me, and wanted to

1337
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 1: take another shot, try somebody else out. And pretty much

1338
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 1: it was about to say the only thing I knew

1339
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: is that of that Sony or b M I. Yeah,

1340
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:41,639
Speaker 1: what was it? April Black? With b M I, Sony?

1341
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:44,760
Speaker 1: They all, you know, Chase Dolond made sure that if

1342
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: anything happened over there that they were in line for

1343
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:53,679
Speaker 1: the publishing. You know, they're administrating part of the publishing.

1344
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 1: That's all they had. I had a dent of the

1345
01:28:56,760 --> 01:29:04,640
Speaker 1: writers and seventy five of the the publishing, and they

1346
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 1: took two administration. And how was the experience at Warners

1347
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: as opposed to Columbia was? Okay? So when it ends

1348
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: with Warners you lose your second major label deal. Did

1349
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 1: you say, no problem, I'll find my own way or

1350
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:26,680
Speaker 1: were you disheartened? Yeah, that's it, man, I'm I'm a

1351
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: grown man. I'm if I look at these guys that

1352
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 1: you're a rapper, you're lucky if you get three records.

1353
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, is that? You know I said, you know,

1354
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 1: I started making my own deals, you know, Colombia, Warner Brothers.

1355
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: The first deal that came along was was that I'm

1356
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:56,480
Speaker 1: and direct right, you know. Next deal was the Usual Suspects,

1357
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,679
Speaker 1: this guy named Tom. We did two or three albums,

1358
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: some tunes on that. You know, eighties come up, that's

1359
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 1: the eighties. Eighties come along. I always wanted to do

1360
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: some children's music, did children's music, you know, put ups

1361
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:16,919
Speaker 1: of music out there, did music with the Bob Marley's

1362
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 1: mother Smiling Island a song, you know, different things deep

1363
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 1: in the big wide world. You know, the e walks

1364
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 1: for Star Wars. You know, um, you know, just you know,

1365
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:37,400
Speaker 1: get busy, do stuff, you know, and Morning Brothers. I

1366
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: did a sound the second soundtrack. You know, I mean,

1367
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 1: it's like here you are talking to me. You didn't

1368
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:46,000
Speaker 1: mention anything about the fact that I was. I did

1369
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:54,520
Speaker 1: the first and at that time only acoustic soundtrack, Acoustic

1370
01:30:55,080 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: Country blues soundtrack to a major motion picture in the

1371
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:05,120
Speaker 1: motion pictures sounder. I fully aware I was gonna get there,

1372
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: and I saw the movie when it's on its first release.

1373
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 1: So how did that come about? Um, someone who was

1374
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:19,479
Speaker 1: doing the movie suggested that I'd be the guy to

1375
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 1: do it. They came around, Uh, I was, I was, Yeah,

1376
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 1: the came that's not think. At that point in time,

1377
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 1: I was being managed by Bill Graham Productions or Bill

1378
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,720
Speaker 1: Graham Management Field Moore Management. And they came to the

1379
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 1: office and I was playing, and I flew down to

1380
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 1: the set in uh, Louisiana, Clinton, Louisiana, down outside of

1381
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 1: that rouge and what was it outside of Zachary, Louisiana

1382
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 1: So with the mis fifty miles old Mississippi border and yeah,

1383
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:04,880
Speaker 1: they they asked me the you know. Uh. Martin Ritt

1384
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 1: was the director and he had listened to the album

1385
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 1: and he said he didn't think that I was the

1386
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: right guy. And I told him, I said, I told him,

1387
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 1: I said, did you did you have him listen to

1388
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: the second album? And he said, well, no, but he

1389
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 1: didn't think he were gonna be there. I said, listen

1390
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 1: the second album to have him listened to the second album.

1391
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 1: So when you listened to the second album, that's when

1392
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 1: he heard all the acoustic music, and I thought that

1393
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 1: that would be a better fit. You know. I knew

1394
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 1: it was going to be a better fit. But they

1395
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: had grabbed an album on their own, and they didn't

1396
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,479
Speaker 1: think the first two were what they were looking for.

1397
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 1: And then the third one was even slicker, you know,

1398
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 1: And then that's what I knew, that was, here's a

1399
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: whole bunch of older tunes that you need to show

1400
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: up on this second album. And so to so many people,

1401
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: that is a bible of you know, what music is about,

1402
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 1: how to powlish it up. You know, it just sounds

1403
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 1: good as a you know, as music porch music from

1404
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: porch back, porch music, you know. But um yeah, um

1405
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:27,519
Speaker 1: they Martin Rip liked it. And then then he asked

1406
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:30,160
Speaker 1: me because I do some dialogue for him, and that's

1407
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 1: when they put me in the in the movie is playing,

1408
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:38,200
Speaker 1: uh the family friend Ike Phillips, and I actually I

1409
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 1: actually got to you know, it was real nice. I

1410
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 1: actually got to have you know, one uh guitar like

1411
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 1: Rosetta Thorpe, one of those you know dually in National

1412
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 1: Sunbverse tobacco with sunbverse and and play that in the movie.

1413
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 1: And I will be there for as long as you

1414
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 1: can show that movie, you know. I mean it's that's

1415
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 1: like I pulled off, pull up, pull up a whole

1416
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. I want to walk up and one

1417
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:06,800
Speaker 1: of the ending scenes, I'm whistling Carena when I walk up.

1418
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 1: You know, people paying attention. You know. I had a

1419
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 1: wonderful time with the people down there and the music,

1420
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 1: and I made some lifelong friends, the William Anderson family. Yeah,

1421
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: uh Ted Lee and them and uh yeah, okay, So

1422
01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: then you end up working in front of the camera.

1423
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: How do you get all these other booby roles? Um No,

1424
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: I didn't do too much. I just did, you know

1425
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 1: a little bit. I did two pieces that were around sounder,

1426
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I got a few things here

1427
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 1: and there. I want, you know, I want to there

1428
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 1: have been some really good stuff to play, you know,

1429
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:50,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to do to be a job motherfucker

1430
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 1: up here and they're playing then see it. You know

1431
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,760
Speaker 1: that's because that's what was going on. Then Yeah, man,

1432
01:34:57,160 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: I ain't to say if I ain't, you know, I'm

1433
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 1: not doing that. Yeah, come on, you know you mentioned

1434
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 1: Bill Graham, how important is a manager and will you managed? Well, um,

1435
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: that's a story that should appear somewhere else. I'll leave

1436
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: it at that, you know, I think that I'll put

1437
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 1: it this way. I died involved with him because I saw, oh,

1438
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:28,640
Speaker 1: well he could do what he did. You know, we

1439
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:36,360
Speaker 1: had some really differences, oh our modus operandi and yo

1440
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:41,360
Speaker 1: personal service situation. At some point game till came to

1441
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: the fork in the road. Unfortunately we were able to

1442
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 1: to uh, he was able to two h figure that

1443
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was a man standing and

1444
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 1: he had to acknowledge that did about other people who

1445
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 1: were managing you good, bad or otherwise. You know. Yeah, well, well,

1446
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: see often times that people coming you can tell where

1447
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 1: people are at by how when when when it gets

1448
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:19,639
Speaker 1: down to the crunch, you know, they they they're they're

1449
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:24,439
Speaker 1: just the garden variety manager. You know, they don't see

1450
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 1: they don't see nobody's Most people are not going to

1451
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,519
Speaker 1: see me because of the fact that they think that

1452
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 1: they know they know you know my people and how

1453
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:39,560
Speaker 1: we react. Sometimes they might be absolutely correct. They know

1454
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 1: those people and how those people of my people react.

1455
01:36:44,280 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: They don't know me. You want to know me, talk

1456
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:51,080
Speaker 1: to me. You want to know me. Respect me. I

1457
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: respect you. I started out but that, but you know,

1458
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 1: you play me cheap and play me payment, play me

1459
01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:00,840
Speaker 1: like I'm some kind of ghetto orf and you're in

1460
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 1: trouble son? Is that it ain't that kind of party?

1461
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 1: You know? And today? Do you have a manager today

1462
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:10,680
Speaker 1: or do you do it yourself? Do you have an

1463
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,519
Speaker 1: agent of books gigs? Yeah? I got what agent that

1464
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:16,799
Speaker 1: books age and I worked with a with a management

1465
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: crew that I really like that I respect, you know,

1466
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:25,920
Speaker 1: And that's it. You know, you even even if quietly

1467
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: you don't know as soon as you turn to your

1468
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 1: head sideways said, I don't know, you're in trouble. You

1469
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:35,560
Speaker 1: know how to respect people. People have to respect you.

1470
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:39,679
Speaker 1: Any goals that have going unfulfilled that you're still trying

1471
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: to achieve, Yeah, making money like Michael Jackson, okay, hopefully

1472
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: not spending it like Michael Jackson. But I said what

1473
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 1: I said, you know, Okay, So how has money been

1474
01:37:55,360 --> 01:38:01,519
Speaker 1: throughout your sixty year career? Uh? Scarce but good enough.

1475
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 1: Good enough to put my kids to college, you know,

1476
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:08,599
Speaker 1: and you know, and take care of myself and take

1477
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:13,400
Speaker 1: here the people that I'm responsible for into you know,

1478
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 1: if that's what it is cool, you know, I'm living

1479
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 1: a good life. You know, what are your kids up to? Um? Everything?

1480
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:28,480
Speaker 1: You know, everything from landscape and you know, landscape, permaculture,

1481
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: other musicians, you know, computer computer, computer science people, um,

1482
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, um yeah, everything you know your name it.

1483
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:47,520
Speaker 1: You know. You know there's you know someone with musicians

1484
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 1: you know and involved in climate. You know. One of

1485
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: my daughters is a is a UM published writer, you know,

1486
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:03,519
Speaker 1: and you know, all of them going along in their

1487
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:08,680
Speaker 1: own space, doing their own thing, you know, and independent,

1488
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:14,560
Speaker 1: so they're they're not on the payroll. Oh no, oh no,

1489
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean when they were going to college. I mean maybe,

1490
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 1: like maybe my youngest one, he's he's just just just

1491
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: coming off, but he's still in he's still in school.

1492
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 1: You know, he's doing really good. He's gonna be I

1493
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: think springtime, that's gonna be the end of that. You know.

1494
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: He's the one he I mean, he's he's paying for

1495
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:38,880
Speaker 1: a school and something he wanted to do. So I'm

1496
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: helping him out with other things, you know, and that works.

1497
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 1: You know. I got a couple of just a couple

1498
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 1: of them that I'm dealing with probably dealing with some

1499
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 1: money too. But you know when whenever it comes up,

1500
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 1: somebody's got a good idea, he says, Hey, they want

1501
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:56,839
Speaker 1: to put this together. They needs they needs some backing,

1502
01:39:57,280 --> 01:40:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, sure, Steward, Okay, this is audio only, but

1503
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 1: I can see you. You have a fish or a

1504
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:08,200
Speaker 1: dolphin around your neck. What's that about? That is a

1505
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: um marlin and it signifies almost seven hundred pound marlin.

1506
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:21,759
Speaker 1: And I caught off of um Hannibal Bank in Panama

1507
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 1: and tagged it, revived it and let it go. And

1508
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,800
Speaker 1: is there any weird place you haven't been that you

1509
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:36,639
Speaker 1: want to go? Yeah? Sure, there's all kinds of places

1510
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 1: that come on man. I mean it's like you know,

1511
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:47,120
Speaker 1: um yeah, it's like fifty four countries in Africa and

1512
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 1: I've only been a fourteen of them, you know, um

1513
01:40:53,280 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 1: plenty Caribbean islands I haven't been to, you know, been

1514
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:02,640
Speaker 1: down there and been on some of them. You know.

1515
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 1: It's good, it's great, you know. And at this point

1516
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 1: in time, how many gigs do you do in a year? Uh? Well,

1517
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,800
Speaker 1: it's just start enough since COVID, Uh, I don't know

1518
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 1: this year, I don't know how many we're we're probably well,

1519
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, I have no idea yet, you know,

1520
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:25,560
Speaker 1: just the last, the last of what we're doing for

1521
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 1: a year. That list seventeen more gigs and we're talking

1522
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:37,760
Speaker 1: just before Thanksgiving. So going forward, do you want to

1523
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,800
Speaker 1: work more? You want to work less? Anything? Specifically, you

1524
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:46,280
Speaker 1: want to do work different? You know, means producing records,

1525
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 1: producing other people, seeing other folks get a platform, come

1526
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 1: up with you know, come out with some other I've

1527
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 1: got a lot of got a lot of ye know.

1528
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:59,200
Speaker 1: It's like my output to two is much much bigger

1529
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:03,040
Speaker 1: than what what the what their old record business used

1530
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 1: to be able to handle. So going forward, I think

1531
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:09,439
Speaker 1: we can, we can put out more records, you know,

1532
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:13,040
Speaker 1: but in a different kind of way, you know. I

1533
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: mean it's like now one one song equals the group

1534
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:23,559
Speaker 1: you know where, which was like fifties. You know, it's

1535
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 1: Dion and the Belmonts. Oh my god, you know, it's

1536
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:31,160
Speaker 1: Bill Dogging and Honkey Talk. Oh my god, it's James

1537
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: Brown and you know, try me, Smokey Robinson, you know,

1538
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:39,840
Speaker 1: shop around, you know, and you didn't know anything else

1539
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:42,600
Speaker 1: they did. Just do that. You like that record and

1540
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: you're like that band and we're back at the same door,

1541
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:48,960
Speaker 1: you know. So, but I have a lot of music,

1542
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, uh, other things I'd like to do. I

1543
01:42:52,479 --> 01:42:56,519
Speaker 1: love it, you know, do more uh scoring of records.

1544
01:42:57,080 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 1: Let me see the scoring with movies, you know, and

1545
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: uh you know. But also most of all, see the

1546
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: musicians that young, my my, my family. You'll get recognized

1547
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:13,760
Speaker 1: who what it is they do is several you know,

1548
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:18,960
Speaker 1: hip hop, rap, R and B, you know, far out jazz,

1549
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of music. Well, Taj, I want

1550
01:43:24,240 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for taking the time to

1551
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,479
Speaker 1: talk to me and my audience. I've been very illuminating. Hey,

1552
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: thank you. You know. I was saying, you know, you

1553
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: this stuff you're talking about, your growing up in your perspective,

1554
01:43:36,479 --> 01:43:39,720
Speaker 1: that people need to hear that stuff. Yeah. Well, hey,

1555
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 1: if you want it, you gotta go after it, you know.

1556
01:43:44,040 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 1: And you can't let people. You can't let people deter you. Nope,

1557
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:53,720
Speaker 1: not deterred. Sorry, Well I know it's okay. You can

1558
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 1: go right ahead, you know, and I will read about

1559
01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:00,160
Speaker 1: you with you all your success when you drive your

1560
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:04,920
Speaker 1: miles aroundie off Cliff because you can't stand not paid

1561
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 1: attention to you know, and keep on keep on percolating,

1562
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 1: doing right, doing good with people. But now some of that,

1563
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: no matter what, come back around and say, my god,

1564
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:20,280
Speaker 1: just saying feels even better forty years later. I mean,

1565
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 1: I've got people telling me, man, I know you see

1566
01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:28,240
Speaker 1: fifty seven years ago, you know, just like this regularly ride. Well,

1567
01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:32,439
Speaker 1: fifty seven years we hadn't played together. Listen. I was

1568
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 1: talking about the psychiatrist earlier, and he says, oh, I

1569
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 1: saw taj Mahal when I was you know, and he

1570
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:41,439
Speaker 1: said it was a high school. He sent me the thing.

1571
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:44,759
Speaker 1: It was from Snick that was a benefit for stick

1572
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:48,759
Speaker 1: and it was you and John Himmon and Tom Rush.

1573
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 1: People remember you, that's for sure. Yeah, right, even if

1574
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 1: they even even if they haven't come back for fifty years,

1575
01:44:57,439 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 1: if it was and then, and that was always something

1576
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:03,040
Speaker 1: I have to say, that's something that always was able

1577
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:06,000
Speaker 1: to sustain me. So I just realized that whatever it

1578
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 1: is and whatever what I'm supposed to get going here,

1579
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:12,400
Speaker 1: is that I don't lose sight of the music. And

1580
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 1: I never did. I never have until next time. This

1581
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:33,120
Speaker 1: is Bob Left sets h