WEBVTT - Civil Rights Division Upended and Lawyers Exit 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:07.040 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosse from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.760 The new head of the Justice Department Civil Rights Division 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.920 is upending the mission of the division, which traditionally has 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:21.760 been to protect Americans against discrimination based on race, color, religion, sets, 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:26.520 and national origin. Harmeit Dillon has abandoned landmark civil rights 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.680 settlements and has changed the division's focus to combating anti semitism, 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:37.360 rooting out anti Christian bias, fighting diversity initiatives, and protecting 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.320 gun rights. It's led to a mass exodus of attorneys 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.840 from the division. In an interview with conservative commentator Glenn Beck, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.720 Dylan said that more than one hundred division attorneys out 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.960 of three hundred and eighty have already said they'll leave. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.960 I think that's fine, because we don't want people in 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.400 the federal government who feel like it's their pet project 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.960 to go personute police departments based on statistical evidence, or 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:09.520 persecute people praying outside abortion facilities instead of doing violence. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.039 That's not the job here. The job here is to 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.960 enforce the federal civil rights laws, not woke ideology. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:21.040 Joining Me is Bloomberg Law, reporter Suzanne Mognac start by 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:26.280 telling us about the history of this division and its purpose. 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:28.920 The Civil Rights Division is part of the Justice Department 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.360 that was created in nineteen fifty seven as part of 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.399 the Civil Rights Act that year, and it was really 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.160 originally at its time intended to protect the right to vote. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.000 This is a big problem in SOLF at the time 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.200 with protecting black residents from being blocked from the polls, 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.880 and that was sort of the original mission of the unit. Obviously, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.880 now it's expanded and it enforces all of the civil 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.280 rights laws that protect people from being discriminated against based 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.640 on their sex, their gender, disability, religion, etc. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:02:01.080 Are they dropping any existing litigation or settlements by the 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.280 prior administration? 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:03.880 Are they dropping anything? 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.960 Quite a lot, Yes, they're dropping a lot. We've seen 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.880 withdrawals of consent decrees and just you know, removing themselves 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.320 from pending litigation. In a lot of different areas that 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.600 the Biden era Civil Rights Division had handled, One notable 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.519 one that got quite a lot of traction was an 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.480 environmental case actually that had been focused on sewage issues 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.800 in Black Delta and Alabama, where residents have been found 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.920 to have been discriminated against by their county because they 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.560 didn't have proper sewage systems, and it had created a 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.520 health risk for residents in those communities, and that was 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.480 something that the Trump administrations decided to withdraw from that settlement. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.880 And so we've really just seen a lot of withdrawals 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.120 of settlements but just don't align with what the Trump 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.360 administration's missions are when it comes to the types of 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.000 civil rights that they're interested in enforcing. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.280 In that Alabama case, the settlement had already been reached, right, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:59.239 that's correct, So now what is the general new mission statement? 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.040 The Justice Department had actually sent out new mission statements 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.639 for the civil rights divisions different sections. To take it broadly, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.120 a lot of the common threads that we saw throughout 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.960 the new section mission statements were a focus on anti semitism, 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.919 really specifically on college campuses, but focus on protecting women 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.120 from quote unquote gender ideology, and really specifically what that 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.120 is is preventing transgender women from participating in women's sports. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.840 And we're also seeing just a focus on opposing DEI 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.360 and that's obviously an issue that we've seen kind of 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.360 throughout the new Trump administration. Diversity equity and inclusion efforts 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.760 that we might see in universities or elsewhere. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.320 Like the Housing and Civil Enforcement section, What did they 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.440 do and what are they now going to do? 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.720 So Housing and Civil Enforcement primarily would take on the 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.360 Fair Housing Act, which is a civil rights statue that 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.480 prevents discrimination and housing. So, for example, refusing to rent 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.000 an apartment to somebody because of their race would be 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.200 a classic example of housing discrimination that they would go after. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.640 What we saw in the new Mission statement was actually 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.760 no made of the Fairhousing Act, and I think that 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.520 was something that was significant for people following was that 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.320 landmark civil rights law in housing is not even mentioned 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.360 as a priority, and it's misinstatement. And said, I think 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:11.520 what we're going to see a lot of from this 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.320 section is religious land use issues, so churches who want 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.840 to get a permit or something for a certain amount 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.680 of land and that they're claiming that they're being discriminated against, 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:22.880 which has always been a mission of that section, to 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:24.479 be clear, But I think we're going to see more 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.200 of a focus on religious institutions in helping discrimination really, 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.080 particularly probably Christian institutions, since anti Christian bias is actually 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.040 another tenant that we've seen kind of throughout the different 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:36.960 sections as a core mission for this division. 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:42.719 But the division has always handled cases involving anti Christian bias. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.440 Anti Christian bias with any religious bias has always been 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.240 within the mandate of Civil Rights Division, and absolutely in 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.640 instances of anti Christian bias in the past, we would 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.760 have seen prior administrations take those on. What I heard 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.760 from a lot of former Justice Department officials who came 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.800 from this division was that the New Times administration was 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.520 somewhat of an outcome oriented approach when it comes to 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.280 these issues. So I spoke to one former division official 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.200 who told me that when they wanted to take a 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.479 look at religious discrimination issues, they didn't start with a religion. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.960 They went around the country and talk to different communities 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.240 to try to learn which religions they felt had been 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.440 most affected at the time. This was during the Obama administration. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.200 He said. The research said them that Islamophobia was actually 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.160 one of the most significant religious discrimination issues at that time. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.560 And so I've been Anti Christian Bias task Force for example, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.919 it was something that had happened recently. It shows that 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.040 they're really interested in probing anti Christian bias, but it 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.120 doesn't necessarily say that that is the most prevalent iss 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.440 you have religious discrimination. So of course you know, I 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.920 haven't done this market research as a reporter, I could 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.040 not tell you, you know, exactly why that anti Christian bias 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.919 stacks up against other religions. People can maybe take a 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.920 guest to face on their own communities that which they're 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:52.920 seeing the most of. But I just think it sort 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.520 of says something that they're starting with that I'm starting 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.720 with anti Christians as opposed to, you know, maybe taking 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.159 a broader look and seeing where were the problems are. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.200 And I think that's some criticism that former Justice Department 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.800 officials have had as they take a look at this, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.360 that perhaps they're going in with an ideology that they're 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.960 wanting to play out as opposed to going in with 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:12.240 a problem and seeing where it is. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.960 There's also the Educational Opportunities Section, which used to ensure 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.800 that educational facilities are not discriminating against minorities. 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:23.239 What is its mission now? 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.280 So a huge part of what I think the new 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.039 mission will be on the Educational Opportunity section is going 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.920 to be a lot of transgender athletes and sports, and 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.040 anti semitism on college campuses. These are issues for the 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.800 Trump administration. More broadly, we've seen the Department of Education 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:44.200 initiating investigations or sending letters to universities regarding investigations into 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.680 anti Semitism on college campuses. Justice Department has opened one 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.880 into the University of California on this issue for example. Obviously, 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.160 we've seen this crack down very broadly. I mean, the 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.560 State's Department has revoked visas from students who were involved 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.599 in protests against the Israel Homos war. And that's a 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.160 broad priority for the administration, and I think it's really 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.360 going to play out in this Educational Opportunities section of 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.000 the Civil Rights Division when it comes to seeing it 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.560 as a religious discrimination issue. And then of course the 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.800 transgender issue I think will also be a big one 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.960 for that division. With college sports, there's been a lot 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.960 of pushback on the right on the idea of transgender 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.040 women participating in women's sports is being unfair to non 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.920 transgender women, and so I think that's an issue that 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.800 we can expect this division and in the Education section 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:30.920 to really be taking on. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.240 And then the Special Litigation Section, what did that do 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:36.960 and what does it do now? 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.000 So the Special Litigation Section does take on a lot. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.040 They have a fairly broad mandate. Some of the cases 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.200 that we've seen them do in the past are police 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.440 brutality cases, cases for people who are incarcerated. We've also 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.880 seen them take on space SAX cases, which are free 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.080 to have access to clinic entrances. And so this is 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.880 for example, would be protesters blocking people from entering abortion 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.560 clinics for example. We certainly are not going to expect 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.760 to see a law of enforcement of Face Act on 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.680 abortion protesters for life protesters outside of clinics. Specifically, in 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.040 the new mission statements, they indicated that they do not 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.360 want to see disparate treatment of pro life protesters, prayer 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.200 visuals outside of abortion clinics, et cetera. That's something we've 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.280 heard the political appointee Harmet Dillon has ever seen the division. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.200 That's something we've heard her say. So I think that's 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.000 something we're going to see a lot less of. One 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.000 investigation that we've seen from the special Litigation section that's 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.800 very new, I'm told for this division is actually one 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.440 into gun rights. We've seen that section take on the 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.720 Los Angeles Sheriff's Department on processing delays with concealed carry 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.000 permits and whether that's an issue of discrimination. And so, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.840 while you know this is still within the broad mission 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.800 of the Special Litigation Section. We haven't really seen civil 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.120 rights be used for gun rights. So that's just kind 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.840 of a new, I guess interpretation of the dissection's mandate, 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.880 but also part of the Trump administration's broader mission. Like 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.959 they've made clear that Second Amendment right to bear arms 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:00.240 is an important one for them. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.040 So, I mean, you have the Civil Rights Division litigating 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:11.239 basically against transgender women, litigating about delays in processing gun permits. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.840 One employee you talked, you said, they're demolishing the Civil 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.320 Rights Division and repurposing it for something it's not meant 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.640 to do. Are they basically abandoning almost everything the Civil 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:27.240 Rights Division was known for, like you know, police brutality 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:33.560 cases or discrimination against minorities. It seems like it's just 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.880 a totally different focus. 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.720 It does appear though, that may be the direction that's going. 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.599 I think racial discrimination cases in particular, it seem like 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.000 they're going to be deprioritized as something I'm really hearing 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.280 across the board, and we've seen it in action. We've 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.199 seen them withdraw settlements in racial discrimination cases. One of 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.400 the first things that we saw this division do a 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.840 few months ago was to withdraw settlements in racial discrimination 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.720 cases against police departments regarding incidents past, and so I 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.920 think sure that racial discrimination is going to be a 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.000 lower priority for this division, and we're going to see 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.000 more focus on the issues that we talked about on 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.880 anti Semitism, anti transgender and I DEI. And yes, that 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.200 is a radical departure, I'm told from what that division 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.839 has been doing in the past. And so what we're 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.400 seeing out of that is just like widespread exodus of 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.280 career officials who have devoted their lives and careers to 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.280 civil rights enforcement, who just really don't see the current 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.720 mission as in line with their values and how they 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.640 see civil rights enforcement and how it should be. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.839 And how many division attorneys have said they're leaving. 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.679 We're still waiting on those exact final numbers. Employees had 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.720 until April twenty eighth to let the division leaders know 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.920 if they wanted to take the differred resignation offers. This 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.400 was the second offer, second opportunity they had to take 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.600 somewhat of a buyout where they could go on leave 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.280 for a few months and then formally separate in the fall. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.679 So we're still remains to be seen on exactly the 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.400 damage that's going to be done. But Harmie Dillon went 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.520 on a podcast over the weekend and said she expected 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.160 over a hundred attorneys out of that three hundred something 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.400 attorney section to leave, which is significant, And obviously you 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.320 know there's still a couple of days for people to 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.440 get those requests in. Maybe not all have been approved. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.240 I think it's very possible, maybe even likely from what 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.240 I'm hearing that it may be well over one hundred employees. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.760 I think half is absolutely within the realm of possibility. 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.480 Are these career attorneys resigning themselves or are they being 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:24.679 pushed out? 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.440 It's a mix. We saw a flu of reassignments, quite 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.360 a few section chiefs, section deputy chiefs of the various 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:35.320 section we've talked about who were reassigned to complaint education 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.880 or FOYA offices, which we're seen as a lower tier 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:40.560 of work. I think for a lot of those people, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:42.959 and that certainly with an effort to push them out 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.360 by reassigning them to something different that they didn't sign 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.400 up to do. I think a lot of these people 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:48.920 are going to see the writing on the wall and 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.600 take the deferred resignation offer. And some of those people 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.600 who take the deferred resignation, weren't reassigned. They just maybe 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.800 see what the division is doing and it's not what 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.880 they want to be doing, so they've decided best to 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.200 go take the out now. So it's sort of a mix, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.360 and we've seen that across the board of the Justice Department. 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.680 That will see some leaders be given a reassignment that's 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.760 maybe seen as less appealing. And when sometimes I think 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.880 when somebody's boss or longtime manager is reassigned or decides 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.120 to leave, they can create a morale issue below them, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.080 and a lot of the people who maybe work under 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.120 them and have really respected their work might fee less 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:20.760 inclined to stay. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.520 I found your story really eye opening, Suzanne, thanks so 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.959 much for joining me tonight. That's Bloomberg Law reporter Suzanne Monnac. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.679 The American legal system is being tested during President Donald 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.679 Trump's first one hundred days in office and unprecedented blits 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:43.440 of lawsuits filed against the administration's policies more than two 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.760 hundred lawsuits in courts across the country over just about 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:52.520 every aspect of his agenda, from spending to immigration to 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:57.400 firing of federal workers and government officials. Trump has complained 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.559 about the judges who are keeping him from carrying out 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.920 his agenda. Here in an interview with ABC News yesterday, 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.199 we have to be treated fairly by judges, and we're 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.640 not being treated fairly by all judges. Critics say the 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.400 Trump administration has not been following all court orders, and 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.239 a Supreme Court showdown over the president's powers appears inevitable. 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.800 Joining me is Dave Ehrenberg, former Palm Beach County state attorney. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:27.400 Dave Trump is. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.840 Averaging about two lawsuits filed against his administration for every 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.480 day he's been in office. That's unprecedented. 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:41.760 This is because President Trump has decided to govern by 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.040 executive order as opposed to do the normal thing of 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.680 going to Congress and getting your agenda adopted. So for 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.280 people who think he's acting like a king, perhaps, but 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.160 I think it's a sign of weakness that he can't 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.800 act like a president and get your agenda through the 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.280 legislative branch. FDR did. And the reason why Trump is 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.240 doing this is because he's got a razor thin majority 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.640 of Republicans in the House, knowing that it would be 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.560 really difficult to pass on this very controversial legislation through 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.760 and the filibuster in the Senate would block his legislation 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.920 as well, So he is trying to go over the 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.800 heads of Congress, and he's being assisted by the fact 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.040 that Congress has advocated its role as a separate, coequal 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.760 branch of government. So it's up to the judiciary to 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.360 stand firm and to provide the checks and balances that 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.120 a democracy requires, and so far they have, they have 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.760 provided the guardrails. So that's why you're seeing so many lawsuits. 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.040 That's why you're seeing so many laws in court for Trump. 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.480 That would change if he decided to govern through legislation 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.160 rather than executive order, but there's no sign he's going 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:46.560 to stop. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.520 There are cases in all different areas. There is you know, 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.440 government spending and DEI policies and all kinds of things. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.560 The cases that have gotten the most attention are the 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:58.920 immigration cases. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:00.760 Why do you think there is so many cases in 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:01.240 that area? 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.480 I mean, is it because they're testing how far they can. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.920 Go to his top priority? So immigration is the most 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.880 important issue for him, and he knows that's the reason 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.000 why he got elected. So he got elected for two reasons. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:20.320 Inflation in the southern border, immigration, and so far he 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.000 has not been able to lower prices because the president 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.720 has very little to do with inflation, although his positive 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.400 caused increase in prices through tariffs. So he's relying instead 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.720 on the southern border and immigration, and so he's been 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.240 extra aggressive on that issue because that's his bread and butter. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.720 But in so doing he is running a foul of 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.400 due process because the president is not a king. And 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.600 even though this obscure Alien Enemies Act from the eighteenth 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:52.560 century exists, it is rarely invoked, and when it is invoked, 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.520 it doesn't give the present unilateral authority to deport anyone 0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:00.000 without due process. And the courts are reminding him of that. Now, Trump, 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.680 instead of just abiding by court rulings, is trying to 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.640 evade them. Importantly, he has not said that he has 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.320 openly defined court rulings, and I think that's important. That's 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.680 why I don't believe we're in a constitutional crisis. Yet 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.920 the day that he says I'm going to defy the 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:19.120 court's rulings, that's when it's coo, that's when we have 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.360 a constitutional crisis. But that day hasn't come yet. He's 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.720 paying lip service to it. He's saying he's abiding by 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.840 court rulings even though he's playing games with him. But 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.240 still the fact that he is saying he respects the 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.600 Supreme Court and will abide by the rulings does mean something. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.640 Yeah, and Trump did say that he follows the laws 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.640 again today in the Oval Office when he was asked 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:43.160 about the case of the marilynd Man Kilmar Arbrego Garcia, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.280 who was mistakenly deported to l Salvador. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:47.240 I don't know. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:48.240 I haven't spoken to him. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.720 I really leave that to the lawyers, and I take 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.600 my advice from Pam and everybody that has very much involved. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.360 They know the laws, and we followed the laws exactly. 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.600 One of the first judges that Trump has all doubt 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.800 is the chief judge in the DC Courts, Judge James Boseburg, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.080 and he's the one that oversaw that high profile challenge 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.560 to the deportation flights of Venezuelans to El Salvador. Trump 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.560 has called him highly conflicted, a troublemaker and agitator, a 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.560 grand standard, and even a radical left lunatic. He's used 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:26.040 some of those similar names against judges who were in 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.640 charge of the cases. The criminal case is against him. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.960 What does it do to have though the President calling 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.640 judges a radical left lunatic and calling for their impeachment. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.040 Well, it got the admonition from Chief Justice Roberts. Chief 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.800 Office Roberts rarely speaks out on stuff like this, but 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.200 he did saying that if you disagree with the judges ruling, 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.920 the recourse is not to try to impeace the judge, 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.600 and by implication, not to bass the judge, but to 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:01.520 appeal the judge. And that meant something because because Trump 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.520 knows that his bread is buttered by the Supreme Court, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.320 that's who gave him unprecedented immunity. That's a big reason 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.120 why he was elected. He was able to avoid criminal 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.000 trial during the campaign, So he owes the Supreme Court 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.840 a lot, and that's why he didn't push back when 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.760 Chief Justice Roberts scolded him. So, although it is a 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.480 very maga thing to bash judges, you haven't seen it 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.199 as vitriolic as it seemed to go. Right now, it 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.919 seems like the rhetoric has died off a little bit, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.199 and I think that's because Chief Justice Roberts had to 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.600 step in and remind Trump that he is out of line. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.280 And Trump, who's purely transactional, does not want to upset 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.160 the Chief Justice of the most important court in the land. 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.600 So Judge Bosberg, actually two judges are investigating whether the 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.399 Trump administration defied their orders. As you say, Trump repeatedly 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.760 says he always obeys court orders. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.360 But when the government. 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:08.679 Flew those Venezuelans to El Salvador, Judge Boseburg paused the 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.000 deportations and told the government to turn the planes around. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.199 He ruled on April sixteenth that the government demonstrated a 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.200 willful disregard for his order for not turning the flights 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.080 or ordering their return from l Salvador, and that none 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.520 of their responses have been satisfactory. So Judge Bosburg could 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.119 be on the way to finding someone in the Trump 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.960 administration in contempt. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.800 Could be. So far, no one has been found in 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.919 the content. But what has happened is that the US 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.680 Supreme Court, in extraordinary ruling on a Saturday at one am, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.439 came in and put the kebash on Trump's deportations of 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.639 Venezuelans to El Salvador. And that was even though the 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.480 case really hadn't come to the Supreme Court, and the 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.360 Supreme Court stepped in without really clear jurisdiction, even though 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.639 the appellate court, the lower Court, the Circuit had not 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.840 even ruled, So that to me showed that the Supreme 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.720 Court isn't messing around, that they actually believed that Trump 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.359 was going to violate Bozburg's order, that Trump was dumbing 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.439 his nose at the judiciary, and so they had to 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.399 step in. And so Trump is at risk of losing 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.959 the Supreme Court he needs so badly because he's Tustas 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.920 Roberts and amy Cony Barrett are the two most important justices, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.000 and in that Saturday one am ruling, it was not 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.520 only they who ruled to halt the deportations, but also 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.919 Kavanaugh and Corse. It so all three justices appointed by 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.480 Trump ruled against the Trump administration. And so that's why 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.280 it's more than just holding Trump in contempt in his 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.120 administration and contempt. It's also actions like we saw at 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.679 one am on Saturday by the Supreme Court that shows 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.120 that the courts are pushing back. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:53.160 Let's just say Judge Bozburg finds a Trump administration official 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.119 in contempt, I mean, what would really happen? Couldn't Trump 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.560 pardon anyone charged with contempt? 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.280 Yes, criminal contempt. Trump could step in, but he can 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.840 also just disregard the court's order. I mean, the court's 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.920 orders are enforced by the Martial Service, and the martial 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.480 Service is under the executive branch, and so be up 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.560 to the Department of Justice to go along, and you 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.000 have to believe that they won't. Now, there are some 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.200 rare cases where the court could appoint like a local 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.439 sheriff to round someone up, but I think that's not 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.080 going to happen. Could Trump step in and mess around 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.960 with it, Yes, that's a federal crime. He could pardon someone. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.040 But really the big stick that the court holds is 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.240 really in the court of public opinion. The public overwhelming 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.159