Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Minky listener. Discretion is advised. In
Speaker 1: my years of investigating defunct sanitoriums, mental health facilities, and jails.
Speaker 1: I've seen it all. Full bodied apparitions, shadow figures, doors, slamming,
Speaker 1: you name it. Perhaps more alarming, I've heard whispers in
Speaker 1: my ear, and in some cases I've been touched and
Speaker 1: grabbed by unseen forces. Even as seasoned an investigator as
Speaker 1: I am, I know when I walk through the dilapidated
Speaker 1: doors or squeaky gates of these old complexes, something unexplainable
Speaker 1: will happen. And that knowledge and expectancy to this day
Speaker 1: still sends a chill down my spine as I begin.
Speaker 1: But what happens when the location wasn't just a sanatorium,
Speaker 1: mental health facility, or jail. What if at some point
Speaker 1: in its history it was all three? Join me friends
Speaker 1: as we journey to CRESCN Sanatorium in Lily, Pennsylvania. I'm
Speaker 1: Amy Bruney, and welcome to Haunted Road. The Crescent Sanitorium
Speaker 1: in prison stands two thousand feet above sea level, perched
Speaker 1: in the peaks of Pennsylvania's Allegheny Mountain Range. The complex
Speaker 1: includes roughly twenty buildings. The picturesque, three story Tudor Revival
Speaker 1: style administrative building is made of brick and wood and
Speaker 1: has a peaked roof. The structure might remind visitors of
Speaker 1: a witch's cottage hidden in the forest. Meanwhile, the surrounding
Speaker 1: buildings look more modern and utilitarian. If you step inside them,
Speaker 1: you'll find crumbling rooms with chipped paint and, in some
Speaker 1: cases old abandon and equipment. The on site power station
Speaker 1: is still filled with dated machinery. Inside the administrative building,
Speaker 1: a wooden lobby welcomes visitors only for the doors to
Speaker 1: open to long abandoned prison cells. Elsewhere in the complex,
Speaker 1: a sunny window lined chapel sits locked behind a wrought
Speaker 1: iron door with a cross pattern. Eerie stone lined underground
Speaker 1: tunnels connect the buildings. These dark corridors feature bare concrete
Speaker 1: walls and flooring, exposed ducts, and water stains. The whole
Speaker 1: Crescent Sanatorium and Prison facility is like this, a blend
Speaker 1: of warm, welcoming imagery with locked doors, ominous layouts, and
Speaker 1: other features that hint at a much darker past. It
Speaker 1: was originally built in nineteen sixteen, and it owes its
Speaker 1: existence to steel magnate Andrew Carnegie. Initially, he bought the
Speaker 1: land because he wanted to give his mother a mountaintop mansion.
Speaker 1: The area he chose was popular among wealthy Cosmoposslitans looking
Speaker 1: for a place to get away from it all. Sadly,
Speaker 1: his mother passed away before the house was built. The
Speaker 1: grieving Carnegie sold the property for just one dollar, as
Speaker 1: the Cambria Memory Project's history one web page reports, he
Speaker 1: just had one caveat the buyer. The state of Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: had to build a tuberculosis hospital on the land. That
Speaker 1: clinic came to be known as Cresson Sanatorium, named after
Speaker 1: the nearby town of Crescin, but residents just called it
Speaker 1: the sand and patients flocked to it, drawn by its
Speaker 1: promise of therapeutic, clean mountain air and is setting so
Speaker 1: remote it was only accessible by mule drawn wagon or sled.
Speaker 1: Today we know TB can be treated with antibiotics, but
Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century, doctors believed the best remedies were,
Speaker 1: as the Cambria Memory Project put it, fresh air, nourishing food,
Speaker 1: and bed rest. Understandably, these methods weren't particularly effective. Tuberculosis,
Speaker 1: also known as consumption, is a life threatening disease that
Speaker 1: progressively destroys a person's lungs. One TB patient who was
Speaker 1: treated at Cressin compared her diagnosis to cancer, as reported
Speaker 1: on wqed's episode Crescin remembering life at the Sand. While
Speaker 1: the prognosis wasn't great, the sanatorium was otherwise a peaceful,
Speaker 1: bucolic escape for the patients. Residents would spend a significant
Speaker 1: portion of their time sunbathing and so called cure chairs.
Speaker 1: These were canvas seats arranged outdoors. Unfortunately, this daily treatment
Speaker 1: was required year round, rain, snow or shine. When they
Speaker 1: weren't lounging in the open air, residents could do art projects,
Speaker 1: play cards, or screen movies together. They hosted talent shows
Speaker 1: in planted hemlock, pine and spruce trees all over the
Speaker 1: property thanks to a planting program established in nineteen seventeen,
Speaker 1: and the sand drew prestigious guests like Helen Keller, who
Speaker 1: gave an inspirational speech there in nineteen twenty. The residents
Speaker 1: even published a newsletter and broadcast their own radio station,
Speaker 1: which patients could listen to in bed through headphones if
Speaker 1: they were too sick to get up. As dire as
Speaker 1: any TB diagnosis was, the care at the Sand was
Speaker 1: considered top notch. The scare Factor's Haunted Creston's Sanatorium web
Speaker 1: page says that numerous residents had begun to recover from
Speaker 1: their illness by the nineteen twenties, and many chose to
Speaker 1: stay at the Sand not as patients but as caregivers.
Speaker 1: The facility offered a nursing school on site for over
Speaker 1: thirty years. As more adult patients healed, the hospital was
Speaker 1: able to take on other forms of residents, especially children.
Speaker 1: The children's ward opened in nineteen thirty two. Many of
Speaker 1: the kids at the Sand weren't actively suffering from TB,
Speaker 1: but they needed to undergo preventative treatment after friends or
Speaker 1: family members had become ill. As treatment and medical knowledge advanced,
Speaker 1: so did the facility's offerings over the decades. They installed
Speaker 1: X ray machines and began offering surgeries on site rather
Speaker 1: than requiring patients to transfer to another hospital for operations.
Speaker 1: But in the nineteen fifties, doctors across the world began
Speaker 1: implementing new, more effective Tuberculosi's treatments. This was good news
Speaker 1: for many people diagnosed with TB, but it meant that
Speaker 1: Crescent Sanatorium needed to find a new specialty. It was
Speaker 1: converted to a mental health hospital in nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 1: When the few remaining patients at the sanatorium learned they'd
Speaker 1: be moved to another facility, they objected to the change strenuously.
Speaker 1: The Pittsburgh Post Casette published their open letter, which said,
Speaker 1: we wish to protest this action. Every patient in this
Speaker 1: hospital is very much opposed to being transferred. But their
Speaker 1: complaints didn't sway anyone. Unfortunately, the hospital's new focus on
Speaker 1: mental health treatment came with sloppiness and corner cutting. At
Speaker 1: some point, the people running it became aware that the
Speaker 1: buildings weren't in compliance with fire code, but they failed
Speaker 1: to make the necessary fixes. They also lost extensive records
Speaker 1: during nineteen seventy two's Hurricane Agnes. Among other things, the
Speaker 1: storm destroyed all the information they'd had about who was
Speaker 1: buried in the facility's graveyard. It's estimated that three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty people were interred there, their identities lost to time. Then,
Speaker 1: on February fifteenth, nineteen seventy three, another inevitable tragedy struck,
Speaker 1: a fire broke out, claiming three lives. Twenty one year
Speaker 1: old Carl Dodara and thirty year old John Lytell were
Speaker 1: both sleeping in the dormitories when the fires first ignited.
Speaker 1: They succumbed to smoke inhalation. Another resident died days later
Speaker 1: in a hospital, twenty one year old Allie Streppa. The
Speaker 1: facility was rebuilt and operated for nearly a decade more. Finally,
Speaker 1: the mental health hospital closed its doors at the end
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty two, only to reopen about four years later,
Speaker 1: this time as a prison. Renamed Sci Cressn or Cresson
Speaker 1: State Prison. The medium security men's facility could accommodate four
Speaker 1: hundred ninety nine inmates, although it later grew and incorporated
Speaker 1: a maximum security juvenile operation as well. While the penal
Speaker 1: institution was able to utilize many of the original buildings
Speaker 1: from the sanatorium, several structures were demolished so new ones
Speaker 1: could be built in their place. When Crescent State Prison
Speaker 1: received its first prisoners in February nineteen eighty seven, it
Speaker 1: quickly became home to some of the most dangerous and
Speaker 1: violent criminals of the time, men like serial killer Joseph Kallinger.
Speaker 1: Joseph was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia during his incarceration, but
Speaker 1: prior to that, he believed God had ordered him to
Speaker 1: kill three million people. He recruited his twelve year old
Speaker 1: son to help him on his murderous mission, and together
Speaker 1: the father and child murdered numerous people, including another of
Speaker 1: Joseph's sons, fourteen year old Joseph Junior. After his conviction,
Speaker 1: Joseph spent some time in a mental health facility, then
Speaker 1: was transferred to Sci Cresson. He remained there six years,
Speaker 1: the final five of which were in solitary confinement with
Speaker 1: constant surveillance due to fears that he'd take his own life. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: he died of natural causes on March twenty sixth, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six. The following year, another infamous killer moved in
Speaker 1: to crescn. This was John E. DuPont, an eccentric millionaire
Speaker 1: who became dangerously paranoid in the nineteen nineties. Debbie Goldberg
Speaker 1: reported in The Washington Post that John came to believe
Speaker 1: he was in some kind of danger and lined his
Speaker 1: home with razor wire as a protective measure. He seemed
Speaker 1: to think The trees on his estate were both mobile
Speaker 1: and mechanical and moved around. The same article also notes
Speaker 1: that John often referred to himself as Christ Child and
Speaker 1: Dali Lama. In addition to his mental health struggles, John
Speaker 1: was deeply invested in athletics. In an article with The
Speaker 1: New York Times, Jerry Longman wrote that John had an
Speaker 1: athletic facility constructed, and he financially sponsored swim wrestling, and
Speaker 1: pentathlete teams. He also allowed Olympic wrestler Dave Schultz and
Speaker 1: his family to live on his estate. On January sixth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, John fatally shot Dave. His motives are
Speaker 1: still unclear, but it has been speculated that John believed
Speaker 1: Dave was conspiring against him somehow. After his arrest and conviction,
Speaker 1: he lived at the Crescent State Prison from nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: seven to December twenty ten. The seventy two year old
Speaker 1: died in Crescent of natural causes. By this time, the
Speaker 1: facility had fallen a long way from the beloved Airy
Speaker 1: tb Sanatorium it had once been. These days, the prison
Speaker 1: guards and other officials were especially harsh to inmates with
Speaker 1: mental health conditions, who were often brutally punished for behavior
Speaker 1: related to their disorders. Punishments included withholding showers, toilet paper,
Speaker 1: and mattresses. Many prisoners were thrown into isolation, a brutal,
Speaker 1: damagingly stressful measure, even for people with no previous history
Speaker 1: of mental health struggles. In light of all this, it's
Speaker 1: probably no surprise that many incarcerated people at Cresson State
Speaker 1: Prison took their own lives. One inmate who survived a
Speaker 1: suicide attempt was punished for trying to kill himself. He
Speaker 1: was charged a fine and spent about a month in isolation.
Speaker 1: The US Department of Justice opened an investigation on the facility.
Speaker 1: In their final report, Thomas E. Perez and David J.
Speaker 1: Hickton wrote that Cresson State Prison was violating inmates constitutional rights.
Speaker 1: They said Cresson routinely locks prisoners with serious mental illness
Speaker 1: in their cells for roughly twenty three hours per day,
Speaker 1: for months, even years at a time. However, when the
Speaker 1: Crescent State Prison shut down in twenty fifteen, it wasn't
Speaker 1: because of the chronic mistreatment. It was because the facility
Speaker 1: had grown too expensive to maintain. As reported by Jim
Speaker 1: Cheney in Uncovering Pennsylvania. Most recently, that Cresson Sanatorium and
Speaker 1: Prison Facility has operated as a hydroponic farm which is
Speaker 1: run by Big House Produce. They used to offer tours,
Speaker 1: but recently closed. They posted on their GoFundMe page that
Speaker 1: this is due to a dispute with their landlord about
Speaker 1: ownership of the property. It's hard to say when ghost
Speaker 1: hunters and paranormal investigators will be welcomed back into the
Speaker 1: halls of Cressn which is unfortunate as it's said to
Speaker 1: be extremely haunted. In the past, visitors have reported cna
Speaker 1: the spirits of prisoners and workers alike. There are also
Speaker 1: accounts of shadow figures and screams and conversation with no
Speaker 1: clear source. At times, guests get the eerie sense that
Speaker 1: they're being watched, and many have felt unseen hands touch them.
Speaker 1: On Amy's Crypts website on America's most Haunted Hospital in Prison,
Speaker 1: there are accounts of people who visited the facility's chapel
Speaker 1: only to suddenly feel overcome with weariness and tremors. The
Speaker 1: same site notes that a mysterious creature has been spotted
Speaker 1: inside this building. It's said to cling to the ceiling
Speaker 1: then follow visitors around the property after they leave the sanctuary.
Speaker 1: The Children's Ward, which also operated for some time as
Speaker 1: a morgue, is another hot spot for spiritual activity. The
Speaker 1: entities there have been known to chase guests, and it's
Speaker 1: also said that paranormal investigators have recorded EVP that are
Speaker 1: hostile and argumentative in tone. We don't know where many
Speaker 1: of these spirits come from, but one has been identified.
Speaker 1: On an episode of Ghost Hunters, historian Tyler Mowdry described
Speaker 1: a boy named Brian Larer. He was admitted to Cressen
Speaker 1: after a bad fall and a head injury in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty six. While the tumble didn't kill him, it did
Speaker 1: cause brain damage, which meant Brian was never released from
Speaker 1: the hospital. He ended up dying at Cresson, and he's
Speaker 1: been identified as the young boy's spirit who haunts the
Speaker 1: power plant. Another specter has been identified as serial killer
Speaker 1: Joseph Kallinger. During his lifetime, his cot was in cell
Speaker 1: Block F, and his ghost has been spotted in that building.
Speaker 1: In this structure, visitors often hear footsteps, voices, moans, and
Speaker 1: taps in rooms that are supposed to be empty. Doors
Speaker 1: slam on their own. The Crescent sanatorium page on the
Speaker 1: Haunted US website suggests sometimes though swing shut if an
Speaker 1: investigator asks a particular question. The ghosts in the prison
Speaker 1: block are often particularly drawn to female visitors. Women who
Speaker 1: walk through here are frequently touched or might feel someone
Speaker 1: tug at their hair. It's no wonder the structure is
Speaker 1: so haunted. Between its time as a hospital, a mental
Speaker 1: health clinic, and a prison, Cresson has borne witness to
Speaker 1: almost a century of suffering, death and tragedy. Up next,
Speaker 1: we'll be talking to paranormal investigator Rachel Rachella. Rachel worked
Speaker 1: at cressm as a tour guide and investigator for years
Speaker 1: and she's got some amazing first hand encounters to share.
Speaker 1: That's coming up after the break. I am now joined
Speaker 1: by Rachel Rachella, and Rachel actually was a tour guide
Speaker 1: and investigator at Cressin for a while. And this is
Speaker 1: really interesting for me, Rachel, because I've never been to Cressen.
Speaker 1: So many of the places that cover I've actually investigated,
Speaker 1: but this is not the case here. So I'm really
Speaker 1: happy to have you, so thank you, oh thank you.
Speaker 1: One of the things that struck me in the history
Speaker 1: right away was that Cressin was not just you know,
Speaker 1: a sanatorium. It had a lot of different iterations. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it went from sanatorium to mental health facility to prison.
Speaker 1: So just kind of right off the bat well, first
Speaker 1: of all, welcome, I'm just really excited to talk about this.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: In that context, which of those kind of identities do
Speaker 1: you think causes the most activity at the sanatorium or CRESCIN.
Speaker 3: So, I think, at least for me when I was there,
Speaker 3: it was kind of dependent on where you were. In
Speaker 3: prison buildings there was a lot of more prisoner activity,
Speaker 3: and then in some of the sanitorium buildings they had
Speaker 3: converted them to prison buildings, but there was still remnants
Speaker 3: of tuberculosis patients and you know, even kids at sometimes.
Speaker 3: So it was like you got all of the eras
Speaker 3: when you were there, just depending on what kind of
Speaker 3: night it was, which buildings you were in. And the
Speaker 3: prison I think did have a strong presence, just because
Speaker 3: that was the last portion that the property had and
Speaker 3: it was there from you know, eighty seven, eighty three
Speaker 3: to eighty seven and then until twenty thirteen. So I
Speaker 3: just I've had a lot of interactions with prisoners and
Speaker 3: then in some of the older buildings was sanatorium.
Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense. Obviously there's a lot of places
Speaker 1: to explore there. I think they said, I mean, how
Speaker 1: many buildings are left standing at this point that you
Speaker 1: know of?
Speaker 3: So there's still a lot of buildings up inside of
Speaker 3: the prison fence where the yard was and everything. There's
Speaker 3: about twenty twenty two up there, and then there's still
Speaker 3: some warehouses that weren't used at the time. But there's
Speaker 3: there's a good bit of buildings. Twenty of them are
Speaker 3: open or were open to exploration, so there was a
Speaker 3: lot to go.
Speaker 1: Through, good Lord, And so when you're in there, I'm
Speaker 1: assuming there's still a lot of a lot of remnants
Speaker 1: of what used to be there, Like, okay, so are
Speaker 1: we talking just furniture other records, Like I've been in
Speaker 1: some of these places and it's literally like they just
Speaker 1: locked it up and walked away one day and didn't
Speaker 1: change a thing. Is it still like that in spots?
Speaker 3: In spots, yes, there's still papers that they don't have
Speaker 3: identifiers on them, but papers that you would have seen forms.
Speaker 3: There's even prison passes that are laying around. It's in
Speaker 3: some of the basement areas where not a lot of
Speaker 3: people went there were it just looked like they got
Speaker 3: up and walked away, yeah, and left everything.
Speaker 1: It's it's so interesting how that happens with a lot
Speaker 1: of these government buildings when they closed down. It's just
Speaker 1: people pack up their few things and then everything else
Speaker 1: just kind of gets left. But I guess it kind
Speaker 1: of is good from an investigative standpoint because you can
Speaker 1: kind of see what it looked like when it was
Speaker 1: an operation. Now, with all of those choices for building,
Speaker 1: what areas did you find to be the most active?
Speaker 3: There were a few. My top one was Building F
Speaker 3: which was a nurse's home during sanatorium and then was
Speaker 3: used for inmates with special needs during the prison. It
Speaker 3: was a building that the first time I walked in,
Speaker 3: I didn't know the history all that much until later on,
Speaker 3: but the first time I ever walked in that building,
Speaker 3: there was this overwhelming feeling of like despair and just
Speaker 3: this emotional vibe to the building. I even just walked
Speaker 3: right back out at the time because I didn't know
Speaker 3: what I was getting into. And then the more that
Speaker 3: I spent time up there, the more that that building
Speaker 3: kind of showed itself in the paranormal way.
Speaker 1: So how does that feel kind of after the fact.
Speaker 1: You know, when you walk into a building and you
Speaker 1: do you get a vibe from it, and then you
Speaker 1: later learn the history that kind of explains that. You know,
Speaker 1: you learn the history and find out like, oh, I
Speaker 1: felt that when I went in there, Like, was that
Speaker 1: kind of an aha moment for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was.
Speaker 3: It was really weird because I had been one week
Speaker 3: before just to take some photos, and then the next
Speaker 3: week had gone back from my first investigation, and that's
Speaker 3: when I learned what that building was and it was
Speaker 3: just this moment of, oh, that's that feeling that I felt,
Speaker 3: where you learn what the inmates were in there and
Speaker 3: what happened, and it was just kind of it was
Speaker 3: confirmation of my feelings, but then also really odd at
Speaker 3: the same time.
Speaker 1: Right, what kind of activity would you say is the
Speaker 1: most prevalent throughout that complex? Like what do you think
Speaker 1: people encounter most often?
Speaker 3: I think it's a lot of residual noises, knocks, just
Speaker 3: bangs and stuff, and then shadow figures are really prominent there.
Speaker 3: That's something that I've had a lot of experience with myself.
Speaker 3: And then I think as I got to know the
Speaker 3: property more, it was disembodied voices or another big thing too,
Speaker 3: just hearing people talking as you're walking up to a
Speaker 3: building and there's no one in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read about that that that's really common place there,
Speaker 1: and I guess that would make sense. I mean, I
Speaker 1: find that in a lot of those kind of institutional
Speaker 1: type locations, shadow figures are there a lot and feel,
Speaker 1: and I almost like associate it with with routine, like
Speaker 1: there was a structure there and there were things that
Speaker 1: happened at certain times every day, and that's not really
Speaker 1: present in a lot of other haunted locations that we
Speaker 1: might go to. And so I think that's just kind
Speaker 1: of that energy a bit like I don't think that's
Speaker 1: all shadow figures, but I think that kind of I
Speaker 1: always think of it this kind of like wispy like
Speaker 1: just kind of replaying over and over again. And in
Speaker 1: this case, people lived and died by their routine a
Speaker 1: lot of the time.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah they did. And that's what I think too,
Speaker 3: is just it's a lot of you can tell in
Speaker 3: certain areas at certain times the energy will kind of
Speaker 3: calm down and then it'll pick back up, so it
Speaker 3: is like they're just going through their daily routine.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like it's probably not just limited to
Speaker 1: night time activity. I know we like to go into
Speaker 1: these places at night, but it sounds like it's happening
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven there. Yes, it is, if you
Speaker 1: feel like I know right now, there's kind of at
Speaker 1: the time of this recording, which it's to be fair
Speaker 1: November twenty twenty three, whoever's listening, there's not investigations happening
Speaker 1: there because there's kind of a dispute happening with the
Speaker 1: landlord and everything and trying to figure out who's going
Speaker 1: to own it next. And do you think that that
Speaker 1: is detrimental to the spirits that are there?
Speaker 3: I do. I think that they can obviously see that
Speaker 3: there's not people coming in at this time, and I
Speaker 3: think that they thrive on that energy of investigators coming in,
Speaker 3: and even people who weren't there to investigate but just
Speaker 3: to take photos or explore. They thrive on that human interaction.
Speaker 3: And now I just don't think. I'm not sure what's
Speaker 3: what they're doing, what's going on, but I think they
Speaker 3: do miss that interaction.
Speaker 1: I can imagine like whoever gets in their next it's
Speaker 1: going to be really interesting to see what happens, like
Speaker 1: even if they're not you know, paranormal people, whoever takes
Speaker 1: over that building, they could be in for quite a surprise. Exactly.
Speaker 1: So how did you get involved in Preston. Was it
Speaker 1: just like something that you stumbled across, Like were you
Speaker 1: an investigator before, Like how did you get into that role?
Speaker 3: Yes, I was an investigator before, just not as often,
Speaker 3: but just here and there. And I had actually discovered
Speaker 3: Cressen because there was an ad on Facebook that they
Speaker 3: had put out for photo tours and I was into
Speaker 3: I'm into photography pretty heavy, and so I saw that
Speaker 3: and it was the chapel, actually the outside of the
Speaker 3: chapel that I saw, and it was just this call
Speaker 3: that I thought, I have to go see this place.
Speaker 3: And ever since then it kind of hooked me in
Speaker 3: and I even moved to be closer to it so
Speaker 3: I could be involved more at the time, and it's
Speaker 3: been it was such a ride getting to be on
Speaker 3: the property and see it and investigate and kind of
Speaker 3: learn the spirit.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think they start to recognize you too,
Speaker 1: like when you're there for a while, like they start
Speaker 1: to know who you are. And just from what I've
Speaker 1: heard about you, and what went on there, Like it
Speaker 1: sounds like most everyone who investigates there has handled the
Speaker 1: spirits there respectfully. Now has that always been the case.
Speaker 3: It has, at least from my time up there, it was.
Speaker 3: Everyone was always very respectful. And everyone that I had
Speaker 3: talked to that we're going to go up there for
Speaker 3: a private investigation, I would just tell them, you have
Speaker 3: to be respectful, because if you're going to go in
Speaker 3: there with a non respectful attitude, they're not going to
Speaker 3: come out. They're not going to talk to you. They
Speaker 3: want that respect because they just want to interact. They're
Speaker 3: not going to kind of show themselves if you're not
Speaker 3: treating them with.
Speaker 1: Respect exactly now, kind of along those lines, like it's
Speaker 1: sounds you know, obviously we're talking about how there's a
Speaker 1: lot of residual activity and stuff, but what about who
Speaker 1: or or who do you think like spirit wise there
Speaker 1: or experience wise, is the most like interactive intelligently, Like
Speaker 1: do you have like full intelligent interactions as well.
Speaker 3: In certain places? Yes, I've had intelligent interactions in Building
Speaker 3: F and then in Building E, which is a cell block.
Speaker 3: There's I think E has a lot of intelligent spirits
Speaker 3: because it was. It was a high security cell block,
Speaker 3: and when you go in there, it's a different type
Speaker 3: of feeling. They will interact with you if you ask questions,
Speaker 3: not so much sometimes on voice recorders, but just asking,
Speaker 3: you know, for yes or no answers for knox or
Speaker 3: bangs or certain things like that. And then the same
Speaker 3: with Building F. I've had more interactions intelligently in there
Speaker 3: through electromagnetic devices, you know, rempods, things like that, and
Speaker 3: it's more the children sometimes to interact in F with
Speaker 3: those devices. And then at one point we had children
Speaker 3: interacting at the end of one hallway and adults at
Speaker 3: the other. So I think it's just dependent on where
Speaker 3: you're at. Mainly those two buildings with intelligence, but every
Speaker 3: building had so sort of intelligent spirit, just the level
Speaker 3: of it was different.
Speaker 1: Do you think that like they're aware of each other,
Speaker 1: because obviously you have this kind of situation where you have,
Speaker 1: you know, a high security prison in a building that
Speaker 1: also once was treating children, where children passed away as well.
Speaker 1: Do you think they're aware of each other?
Speaker 3: I do, especially in you know, those buildings that were
Speaker 3: tuberculousis buildings first and then the prison converted them. I
Speaker 3: think that there's a big interaction between the two. I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if they're on the same timeline what, but
Speaker 3: just the interaction, because sometimes it felt like the spirits
Speaker 3: were interacting more with each other through the devices than
Speaker 3: they were with us.
Speaker 1: What I think is sad is that there is a
Speaker 1: cemetery on the property where like the records were lost. Correct. Yes,
Speaker 1: and in my research it seemed like there were probably
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty ors so people buried out there.
Speaker 1: Do you think that has had any impact on the
Speaker 1: activity or has that ever come up in your investigations?
Speaker 3: I think so, It's never come up for me personally
Speaker 3: in investigations. But I knew of the cemetery, and I
Speaker 3: knew that, you know, they did find some and exuom
Speaker 3: them and actually move them to a cemetery in town.
Speaker 3: And I think that those ones that they didn't, you know,
Speaker 3: they're kind of they might be lost out there just
Speaker 3: trying to find out what's happened to them, if they
Speaker 3: want their grave to be remembered, and it's just.
Speaker 1: Not Yeah, that's really hard, you know. I do think
Speaker 1: there is this kind of there is this importance to
Speaker 1: some people, not everybody, but to some people just having
Speaker 1: that kind of space for them, and you know in death,
Speaker 1: and you know, I have encountered many spirits who were
Speaker 1: upset about how they were treated and you know after dying,
Speaker 1: which I think is so like obviously some people just
Speaker 1: don't care, but others they're very passionate about it enough
Speaker 1: to come back in the afterlife and try to get
Speaker 1: it corrected. So I could that having to do with something.
Speaker 1: For sure, shadow figures we've talked about, and obviously disembodied
Speaker 1: voices and things. Have people seen like full bodied apparitions there.
Speaker 3: I don't. I think some it's more honestly, it's outside
Speaker 3: the buildings more than inside for everything that I've heard.
Speaker 3: I had someone tell me that they saw a man
Speaker 3: standing on the sidewalk out in between the chapel and
Speaker 3: one of the administration buildings, and it gets there's heavy
Speaker 3: fog because of this sits on top of the mountain,
Speaker 3: so it is some heavy fog, and so you look
Speaker 3: into the fog and see a man standing there, and
Speaker 3: it is it's just really eerie. And then I myself
Speaker 3: have seen it was around Halloween one year and I
Speaker 3: was walking down in the dark, of course, and there
Speaker 3: was this man with a flashlight on his head and
Speaker 3: I went to go see who he was, where he
Speaker 3: was coming from, and just took off running across the property.
Speaker 3: And still to this day, I don't think that was
Speaker 3: a person because we knew where everyone was at the time.
Speaker 3: It was just it still freaks me out because I
Speaker 3: don't know what I saw at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not exactly an easily accessible area, right
Speaker 1: like you, No, it is not. It is very remote.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's very remote, and there's only one gate in
Speaker 2: and out of the property, and this was very high
Speaker 2: up on the property of the time.
Speaker 1: Now have you ever had experiences in there that just
Speaker 1: kind of left you uncomfortable?
Speaker 3: Yes, there was, There's been a few. One was actually
Speaker 3: my very first investigation there and it was in E
Speaker 3: which is the cell block I had gotten physically touched
Speaker 3: very first time, and it still gives me chills talking
Speaker 3: about it. There's two stories and this is one of them,
Speaker 3: and that one was I was in just standing in
Speaker 3: the doorway of a cell, you know, listening, and it
Speaker 3: felt like there was a pressure on the back of
Speaker 3: my leg and so I'd even shift did to think
Speaker 3: it was my clothing, and it didn't go away, and
Speaker 3: it eventually felt like a full hand was kind of
Speaker 3: grabbing my backside. It is one that it's my famous
Speaker 3: Cressen story, and it's just something that I'd never really
Speaker 3: got an answer to either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, and that was your first investigation there,
Speaker 1: But yet you went back repeated I. So, now what
Speaker 1: was you said? You've had another one? What's another one?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: So the other one was about six or seven months later,
Speaker 3: and it was in Building F. My friends and I
Speaker 3: had gone up. I had rented the place out for myself.
Speaker 3: It was private investigation, and there was nine of us
Speaker 3: on the property. Four of us had gone to Building F.
Speaker 3: The other five had gone up to the top of
Speaker 3: the property, and we had been in F for a while,
Speaker 3: getting a lot of noises. We'd even think a paint
Speaker 3: chip had been thrown at us at one point. And
Speaker 3: then so we left and left a phone inside recording
Speaker 3: the hallway and walked outside and had it on a
Speaker 3: delay through a live feed. And we were standing out
Speaker 3: on the sidewalk, which is maybe twenty feet from the door.
Speaker 3: And then you go in the door, and then you
Speaker 3: turn left and then go down a hallway, so you
Speaker 3: go through two doors to where this phone was, and
Speaker 3: from the outside we heard this yell come from inside
Speaker 3: this building, and immediately it came through the phone, maybe
Speaker 3: five seconds later. Due to that delay, I sent our
Speaker 3: friends a message up at the top of the property
Speaker 3: and I said, did you guys yell? And they were
Speaker 3: inside in the basement of another one, so they weren't
Speaker 3: anywhere near us. And it is this disembodied It sounds
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it's female or male because it's
Speaker 3: high pitched, but when we listened back to it, it
Speaker 3: it sounded like it was calling out mining oooh.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It is one that gives me goosebump every time. I
Speaker 2: still have the recording, and I have no explanations other
Speaker 2: than I know I'm in that building a lot, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if they just knew who I was
Speaker 2: at the time, but it is really eerie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's you know, that's one of those things,
Speaker 1: like they do become familiar with you and you never know,
Speaker 1: like what they like to scream out your name, like
Speaker 1: did they need something? Did they want you to come back?
Speaker 1: Like were they messing with you? Like there could have
Speaker 1: been so many motivations there, so I know, So what
Speaker 1: do you think do you think they were trying to
Speaker 1: get your attention? Why do you think they were yelling
Speaker 1: out for you?
Speaker 3: I think it was one of those times where they
Speaker 3: just wanted attention because we had been in there for
Speaker 3: so long and then just walked out right, And I
Speaker 3: don't know if they just wanted us back in, because
Speaker 3: they do like attention in that building, and the more
Speaker 3: that you're in there and the longer you stay, the
Speaker 3: more activity you get.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. That's one of those things too. I
Speaker 1: tell people, when you're investigating, sometimes you get lucky and
Speaker 1: things happen straight out the gate, but then there's other
Speaker 1: times where like you really do have to sit and
Speaker 1: let them become familiar with you, and like you have
Speaker 1: to get comfortable being there and get comfortable with the
Speaker 1: people that you're with, and then in turn they'll feel
Speaker 1: that and they'll start interacting more. So it can take
Speaker 1: some time. Yeah, And I think paranormal TV too, it
Speaker 1: kind of makes it look like we walk in and
Speaker 1: it's like instantly things are happening left and right. But
Speaker 1: like it'd be a very boring show if we showed
Speaker 1: people like the build up to that, right, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, sitting for hours in the dark, just.
Speaker 1: Waiting exactly, just waiting for something to happen, so exactly.
Speaker 1: I just I find that place just so incredibly interesting
Speaker 1: because I feel like you've kind of have the gamut,
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, just between like, I love how
Speaker 1: the people who ran the sanatorium just loved it so
Speaker 1: much didn't want to leave, you know. And then it
Speaker 1: was the mental health facility, which I'm sure started with
Speaker 1: good intentions but then really descended into some really dark
Speaker 1: places and then finally ending up a prison, which again,
Speaker 1: like you have some of. I mean, I was surprised
Speaker 1: because it sounded like it started as kind of like
Speaker 1: a medium security spot but ended up with some pretty
Speaker 1: intense killers and things. How did that happen? Do you
Speaker 1: happen to know?
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely sure how it happened. I know that
Speaker 3: the more I guess with the mental health facility being
Speaker 3: there and then having prisoners with that have mental health
Speaker 3: issues and intellectual abilities, that's what they had there. You know,
Speaker 3: they had three different units for prisoners with mental issues,
Speaker 3: and they were the three main units were isolation units.
Speaker 3: So I think that the more that people found out
Speaker 3: about it, and they knew that they could, unfortunately send
Speaker 3: these prisoners with these issues there and they would. It
Speaker 3: wasn't good treatment, right, It was a lot of horrible treatment.
Speaker 3: And you know, with there were the two killers that
Speaker 3: were kind of fam infamous with Joseph Kalinger and John DuPont.
Speaker 3: They were the two inmates that I think people know
Speaker 3: the most about. And it's just it's sad how many
Speaker 3: people ended up there in those isolation units with mental issues.
Speaker 1: So that makes sense. It almost sounds like they were
Speaker 1: trying to rehabilitate some of these prisoners and not reallyhabilitate,
Speaker 1: but like they had been deemed, they weren't necessarily like
Speaker 1: people who were out in society. These were people that
Speaker 1: had mental health issues and that's what led them to
Speaker 1: being killers, which would explain why they'd be in that prison.
Speaker 1: But it sounded like it was just really awful like
Speaker 1: what they went through.
Speaker 3: It was There's a big report that I had found
Speaker 3: myself in the Department of Justice had done investigation and
Speaker 3: it details a lot of why the prison was shut
Speaker 3: down due to the mental health treatment of inmates, and
Speaker 3: it is just a horrifying report to read.
Speaker 1: Like I kind of touched on it a little bit
Speaker 1: in the beginning, but I think that's important to remember too,
Speaker 1: Like when you're investigating situations like this, like you know,
Speaker 1: remember who you're talking to, and you know, you can't
Speaker 1: always pass judgment and assume that you know everyone you're
Speaker 1: talking to is out to get you, Like it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's like you know, anyone could be standing in front
Speaker 1: of you and you can't see them when you're investigating
Speaker 1: a place like this, and so you always have to
Speaker 1: start from a place of compassion obviously, unless they start,
Speaker 1: you know, grabbing your behind and whatnot, and then you
Speaker 1: feel friend to let them know where to go at
Speaker 1: that point. But you know, I just I find it fascinating.
Speaker 1: I really really do hope that they're able to kind
Speaker 1: of rectify what's going on there, or that this does
Speaker 1: become accessible again, not even just for the paranormal component,
Speaker 1: but just from a historical place, Like I think locations
Speaker 1: like this are so important to keep going in some way.
Speaker 3: I do too. It's such a beautiful location too, because
Speaker 3: it can tell the difference between the tuberculosis buildings and
Speaker 3: what the prison had put up, and it is that
Speaker 3: just gorgeous Tutor Revival style and the architecture is amazing.
Speaker 3: So I do hope that you know there is room
Speaker 3: in the future for everyone to enjoy it again.
Speaker 1: I hope so too. Well. I really thank you for
Speaker 1: taking the time to chat with me, and maybe one
Speaker 1: day we'll meet in person. One day we'll investigate Cresson together.
Speaker 1: I hope, yes, I hope so. But yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: great and the best of luck with everything you're doing.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: The crest in sanatorium in prison was originally supposed to
Speaker 1: be a place for healing and recovery. Instead, after many iterations,
Speaker 1: it became a home for neglect, cruelty, and needless death.
Speaker 1: But I find it encouraging that it's now a farm.
Speaker 1: Assuming the operators can settle their dispute with the landlord,
Speaker 1: this can be a place for literal growth. Perhaps as
Speaker 1: small plants flourish and blossom in these walls, healing will occur.
Speaker 1: It's not too late for Crescent to return to its
Speaker 1: original purpose as a place to uplift and nourish. Maybe
Speaker 1: when it does, the souls who remain here will be
Speaker 1: able to move on. I'm Amy Bruney and this was
Speaker 1: Haunted Road. Are you tired of the same old vacation
Speaker 1: destinations and cookie cutter experiences. Do you crave a sense
Speaker 1: of mystery, wonder and adventure that can't be found in
Speaker 1: ordinary travel brochures. Do you listen to this podcast and
Speaker 1: think I'd like to visit that spooky place? Well, that's
Speaker 1: why I started Strange Escapes, a paranormal based travel company
Speaker 1: that takes you to some of the most haunted locations
Speaker 1: in the world. Frankly, it's my excuse to combine all
Speaker 1: of my favorite things, which is ghosts, beautiful hotels, food
Speaker 1: and wine, and other weirdos like me. To be honest,
Speaker 1: If that sounds right up your alley and you want
Speaker 1: to learn more, then visit Strange Escapes dot travel and
Speaker 1: hopefully you can join us sometime. Also. To keep up
Speaker 1: on all of my upcoming projects and appearances, head to
Speaker 1: Amy Brune dot com. I have some really great things
Speaker 1: in the works and I don't want you to miss it. Thanks,
Speaker 1: Haunted Roadies. Haunted Road is hosted and written by me
Speaker 1: Amy Brune, with additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This
Speaker 1: show is edited and produced by Rema Elkali, with supervising
Speaker 1: producer Josh Thain and executive producers Aaron Menke, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio
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